More Monkey Business With the Budget?

If as is being claimed by “Erik” at Fullerton City News is unequivocally stating that Fullerton City staff has been unilaterally backfilling departmental funds without approval by the City Council. This would be unethical and illegal.

Elected officials have to approve these sorts of transfers from the General Fund as well as periodic budget adjustments. Period. Erik claims this has been going on for at least seven years and the amounts are substantial.

Erik uses this situation to suggest a City sales tax bailout is the wrong way to reward the bureaucrats who perpetrated this possibly criminal hairball.

Here is his post:

I’ve Got 24,816,001 Reasons To Not Support A Sales Tax

City Hall Spent $24.8 Million Without Council Approval And Now Wants A Tax Increase

Erik

May 21, 2026

Budgets are estimates, it’s an unpredictable world, and not getting it perfect is understandable. Fullerton City Hall staff and the city council are supposed to work together to determine how much money should go to each fund / department but ultimately it is the city council who, being elected, gets the final say on how we prioritize and spend that money. When council does this properly the residents are happy and councilmembers get re-elected, run for higher office, etc. When they don’t get it right they lose elections, get recalled, and/or face public scorn. The city council is our control mechanism over how our money is spent.

When a council appropriation ends up being more than what was needed, the remaining money can return to the General Fund without issue. When a council appropriation is not enough, the correct action is to request an increase from the city council. Again, city council is our control mechanism over how our money is spent. Staff does not have the legal authority to increase spending, only council does.

This is spelled out in City Municipal Code 2.68.030:

Prior to June fifth of each year, the City Administrator shall submit a budget for the coming fiscal year to the City Council for adoption.

And the restrictions given in City Municipal Code 2.68.050 which states:

C. Transfers of appropriations between departments and funds, or use of salary and accounts, other than those exceptions authorized herein, may be made only by authority of the City Council.

D. Expenditures in excess of the budgeted amounts are prohibited. (Ord. 1485 § 5, 1967).

This should be clear and simple. Need more money? Go ask council for it. However, it appears City Hall chose not to follow this practice (or the law).

During a conference call with a municipal finance expert, I was directed to the ‘Budgetary Compliance’ Section of the City’s 2025 Annual Comprehensive Financial Report (ACFR). They summarized that when that section is present in the report it means that something has gone wrong and in this case it’s by a lot. The ‘Excess’ column of this section lists money that city staff spent in excess of the council-approved budget and for 2025 it totals $11,148,422.

Consider for a moment what this means. Our only way of having a say over how our taxpayer money is spent is through the city council. They are elected to represent us and our interests. The municipal code confirms this is their decision to make. Yet in FY25 unelected bureaucrats at City Hall simply ignored the city council and the voters they represent and went and spent whatever they wanted.

  • Police couldn’t manage on their budgeted $61.3M? They spent $63.9M.
  • Fire couldn’t operate on $34.6M? They spent $36.2M.
  • ‘Capital Outlays’ went over by $6M. This one is especially troubling because there’s no clear explanation of what those funds were actually spent on.

Put another way, the city council budgeted a total of $132.9M to the General Fund but staff spent $144.1M … $11,148,422 of which was without council approval. You might notice on the Revenue side that we brought in $8.9M more than anticipated and should have had a $5.4M surplus. But staff’s $11,148,422 unauthorized spending pushed us from a large surplus to a $5.7M deficit.

This is a complete disregard of good financial practice by City HallWhile some overspending covers legitimate needs, the lack of prior approval violates the process residents rely on, a process that does not include staff spending whatever they want and stashing it on page 105 of next year’s ACFR. Their actions were in direct violation of the city municipal code and are a slap in our faces.

But wait… it gets worse. Much worse. If this were a one-time thing I could almost understand. But, Dear Readers, City Hall staff has disregarded city council approved budgets every single year for the past decade. See for yourself:

2024: $235,248
gdfgdfgd
2023: $455,176. And they were nice enough to put in a reminder that this was not legal spending.
2022: $3,881,625
2021: $5,057,613

Prior to 2021 accounting used a different format for the annual financial report known as the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR) and the format is a little different, but the pattern of spending beyond authorization continues.

2020: $2,200,681.
2019: $1,701,966

Starting in 2019 to present, staff has helped themselves to $24,816,001 of our taxpayer dollars beyond what our duly-elected council representatives legally allocated them. This money was taken without permission, outside of our established legal process, repeated every single year in recent history. This is an outrage.

Our current unrestricted cash reserves are $19.8M which, with a general fund of $144.1M gives us the current 14% reserve level. This is well below the council target of 17% and translates to 1-1/2 months. Had staff followed the budget all these years, our reserves could be as high as $44.6M which comes out to a 31% reserve level or 3-1/2 months. Or some of that could have gone to paving more streets.

But alas, it is already spent and gone and those who spent it are telling you to just give them more money via a sales tax increase. You should ask your councilmember how they feel about this, do they still trust City Hall, and what are they going to do about it?

We are being robbed.

Back to Harpoonville. This sounds pretty serious and I sure hope the crack accountants we have hired to check the books to explore a few facts:

  1. How were these transactions booked and who authorized them?
  2. Were the transactions simply glossed over in annual CAFRs and budgets without saying who approved them?
  3. When, if ever did the Fullerton City Council approve these transfers? Were any of them ratified after the transfers were made?

We have already seen the City play fast and loose with Redevelopment Successor Agency funds as well as other non-discretionary funds to pad the invalid General Fund. That was bad. And in retrospect, maybe those transfers were just part of an overall pattern of misfeasance.

Ad Hoc Tuah Part…Aw, Who Cares?

No laughing matter…

Fullerton’s so-called Ad Hoc Fiscal Sustainability Committee met again, and probably for the last time last Thursday. Like its predecessor, the meeting expended hours of lots of peoples’ time and accomplished nothing. Not very little. Nothing.

Hours and hours of already familiar Power Point readings.

Three things worth mentioning happened.

Miss Daisey was driven…

First, Daisy Perez, the Assistant City Manager reminded the committee that if the City were to get a dedicated “infrastructure” half-cent sales tax increase, that money could be diverted to pay for “maintenance” of police and fire department facilities. She said nothing about a commensurate reduction in the “public safety” budgets and naturally nobody on the committee asked her.

Later, when pressed, the City Manger had to explain that he needed some sort of City Attorney blessing before he could share polling questions asked by the City’s quality of life/pro tax consultant. Huh? The only people who get to know the questions are the ones who got phone solicitations? What bullshit is this? Fortunately, Joshua Ferguson was on hand to share the nature of the questions his wife got; of course they were directed to promoting a sales tax increase of some kind.

You will be taxed…sooner or later!

Later still, when everyone was fatigued, Perez tried to get the committee to vote on a laundry list of options, all of which would be passed on to the council. This is the precise swindle that occurred during the redistricting process courtesy of City Clerk Lucinda Williams – when Fullerton Booohoo was trying real hard to keep Jesus Quirk-Silva in a political job.

Chris Norby, our former City Councilman, County Supervisor and Assemblyman showed up to save the day. He shared the value of vacant properties the City owns, and threw in the airport. These collectively are worth half a billion he asserted. He didn’t remind committee members that these properties would be declared surplus, and that “affordable” housing developers would get first shot at them. He reminded the committee that sales taxes are inherently regressive, perhaps thinking anybody cared about that.

In the end a completely improper process of trying to vote on something, anything, occurred. Without following any order except prompting by staff, the committee voted 3-2 against a Tony Bushala suggestion of a 1/2 cent sales tax dedicate to infrastructure, and keeping in place an existing ordinance guaranteeing a certain percentage of funding for infrastructure.

Peace. No, piece. Another piece of your money. You have it. We want it.

Then the appointees of the liberals Shana Charles and Ahamad Zahra, Derek Smith and Jennifer Duong proposed their own idea: a one cent general sales tax. This failed 3-2, also with Bushala, Wehn and Wozab voting no.

Finally a legitimate motion was made by Eric Wehn and seconded by Bushala: investigate the possible sale of the water function to an independent water company. That proposal was finally passed 3-2 again with the liberal appointees voting no. This idea really has no place to go, except that an exploration of the Water Department’s vacant property should be definitely considered for offloading.

There seemed to be confusion about whether the committee could meet again to keep kicking the can around. No decision was made on that as far as I can tell, but I’ve seen so many Fullerton meetings dissolve into incoherence at their end that I really can’t say.

Derek Smith and the Anaheim Cabal

Backscratching is fun – with other people’s money…

This blog has introduced Mr. Derek Smith to our friends. He is the appointee of “Doctor” Ahmad Zahra to the so-called Budget Sustainability Committee. His qualifications? Well, none are apparent. But we do know that Smith is (or was) the political lobbyist for the union that organizes cannabis store employees.

Cannabis Kitty Jaramillo

We already knew that Smith’s union was bankrolling a PAC for the benefit of Cannabis Kitty Jaramillo’s scampaign in 2024 to the tune of $60,000, $4000 of which went to The Councilwoman Shana Charles Self-improvement Fund.

And now thanks to detailed reporting by Mr. Duane J. Roberts, a true citizen journalist, we know that the union in question, UFCW Local 324, was up to it’s neck in schemes to bring legal cannabis to Anaheim. Roberts’ post is a must-read, for it details the close alliance between Anaheim’s crooked cabal and the union. For several years Smith and his union worked closely with disgraced Anaheim Chamber of Commerce head Todd Ament, Anaheim fixer Jeff Flint, and the Mayor, Harry Sidhu.

Ament, Flint, and Sidhu (graphic by Duane J. Roberts)

For the cabal the dope incentive was money, and lots of it. Money that would go to the cabal leaders, the Chamber of Commerce, and campaign funds of the later-convicted Mayor. For Derek Smith’s union, the promise of a Labor Peace Agreement (LPA) that would eventually cover even part-time workers was the goal.

Belal Dalati wanted in. And then out.

First this association of strange bedfellows tried to get the City Council to go along. Then they began the process to put the issue on the ballot, with proposals written by the cabal, and then by the lobbyist for the Long Beach dope cartel; they were submitted by a UFCW Local 324 employee, and then a local realtor and insurance salesman, Belal Dalati, respectively. Both were eventually retracted, but not without threats, according to Roberts.

Rafiei not looking so hot…

Left unreported by Roberts was the role of Melahat Rafiei, the acknowledged queen bee of OC dope lobbying, and a player deeply involved with Anaheim’s cabal. She later went to jail after she was busted by the FBI for wire fraud; Harry Sidhu did a prison stint, too for destroying evidence; Todd Ament pleaded guilty to fraud and his buddy Jeff Flint left town – for a while. Nice people, right?

While none of the Anaheim MJ activities were illegal, at least as far as can be discerned, the whole episode gives off a real bad smell; and in the middle of it was Derek Smith’s union.

Anybody who thinks Ahmad Zahra was ignorant of what was going on in Anaheim and with Rafiei (whom he recommended to at least one Fullerton businessman as a necessary contact) is pretty credulous. And his appointment of Derek Smith to the budget committee comes into sharper focus.

All that transparency can give a lad a headache…

The fact that the self-righteous clamorers who have decried the appointment of Tony Bushala to this committee have diligently ignored the appointment of Smith is telling. Bushala’s political involvement is a disqualification; Smith’s political history is assiduously ignored – just like the Fullerton Observer Sisters relentlessly ignored the Scott Markowitz conspiracy and the massive contribution by Derek Smith’s union to a pro-Jaramillo political action committee.

Both Zahra and Charles are beholden to the dope lobby, but they still need another vote to revive the 2020 marijuana ordinance approved by Jan Flory, Jesus Quirk-Silva, and Ahmad Zahra. They won’t get it this year.

Fullerton’s Big Log

No, it’s not the Fullerton Observer itself, but it is a story related by Stikia Kennedy on that unfortunate publication’s blog. The post seems to have vanished, as is sometimes the case when it suits the publisher/CEO. In this instance it caught the attention of Mr. F.L. Olmstead before it was dispatched; and he sent it to me.

Mr. Hallstrom

It seems that a local resident named Jensen Hallstrom has been jumping a short wrought iron fence to make homemade repairs to the big slab of redwood dedicated to veterans. It’s in Hillcrest Park not far from the Isaac Walton lodge.

Mr. Hallstrom has been seen at local City Council meetings sharing his personal efforts to repair damaged and missing names. That was was a big mistake, for apparently he has been issued a cease and desist letter from the City, to and from his trespass and his activity.

Not asking real questions is a great way to avoid getting real answers…

Ever the intrepid partisan, Shakira Kennedy seizes upon this David and Goliath tale to spin a yarn about it is somehow the result of the ethics of the Council majority, honesty, transparency and yakkity yak yak yak. It doesn’t seem to have occurred to Kennedy that Fullerton parks staff just hates it when private citizens do unsupervised stuff in City parks, and no political interference is necessary. That fight’s been going on for 35 years, without a peep by two generations of Observers.

Anyhow, Mr. Hallstrom should also know better. He got into a squabble with the City a few years back over the impromptu and unauthorized “native garden” he planted along the Hiltscher Trail. This latest effort seems to suggest a fundamental immaturity on his part.

Giving truth the middle finger…

Shiitake Kennedy’s older sister Sharon even put in an appearance in the comments to decry the event and wonder aloud if Jones and Mayer didn’t have anything better to do than to get the City involved in more legal activity in which they get to bill more hours.

Now that’s ironic. Did either of the Kennedy’s raise an objection about the legal costs associated with the idiotic lawsuit against this blog that was approved by a liberal Council majority? Did any Observers call out the enormous waste of legal fees involved in the foolish and Air Combat lawsuit caused by an incompetent Airport Director who couldn’t understand his own lease? Of course not.

Maybe news will break out.

Accountability doesn’t apply to the left-leaning Democrats favored by the Kennedy Sisters whose gaze becomes myopic when dealing with the likes of Ahmad Zahra, Jan Flory, Jesus Quirk Silva and their ilk.

Why this post was pulled is anybody’s guess. Maybe it will mysteriously pop up in the Register.

Jan Flory, Victim

I was bamboozled…

Sometimes you think you couldn’t make something up that is so ludicrous as to seem impossible.

And so it is with the case of Jan Flory vs. Fred Jung’s ballot statement that was determined on March 27th.

Not the outcome, per se, in which Jung had to change his designation from “Fullerton Mayor/Business owner” to “Fullerton Mayor/Businessman;” and had to remove from his statement the silly claim of opening 9 new parks and balancing a budget left unbalanced by predecessors.

A reputation at stake…

No, Friends, the crazy, and unintentionally hilarious part was the last minute filing by Ms. Flory’s attorney meant to dodge a stay on the original writ of mandate. In this latest filing, Mr. Brett Murdock (who could not have possibly have composed it with a straight face) demanded immediate relief because Jung’s statement would cause poor Flory “irreparable harm.”

It’s pretty funny reading, all based on the premise that government is a business, and that business is hers:

Petitioner Jan Flory is engaged in the business of government and politics

A reputation is a terrible thing to waste…

The supposedly “practically libelous in nature” part is due to the implication that Flory – whose name does not even appear in Jung’s ballot statement – didn’t balance the budget during her fourth laborious canter around the Fullerton City Council track. This supposed assertion of her incompetence is said to impugn her professional political reputation; this so, so funny because every Friend is aware of Flory’s dismal record of incompetence and deceit on the City Council – from the years of Water Fund fraud, refusal to reform a culture of corruption at the FPD, Redevelopment disasters, and of course deficit spending, just to mention a few issues.

I have always hated you, and I always will…

And then there’s the specious and even more hilarious Murdock argument that if Jung were to win based on his ballot statement, it would deprive Flory of opportunities to possibly serve on one of the many County commissions and boards, some of which might offer remuneration:

“If published in the official election material, Jung is more likely to win the election. As a political opponent, Petitioner is unlikely to be appointed by the Supervisor to any of the County’s 85, (sic) boards, commissions and committees; whereas as a highly-qualified and prominent supporter of Traut, she may well earn an appointment.

Membership on a board or commission not only comes with political advantages, but pecuniary advantages as the County “pays certain board and commission members stipends for attending meetings.”

Other benefits—for which “it would be extremely difficult to ascertain the amount”—could accrue to prominent supporters of a winning candidate, including opportunities to be hired as staff counsel or prestige in the community as a lawyer or lobbyist.”

I can’t imagine which “community” would consider Flory as a lawyer – she quit her lawyering, good or bad, years and years ago. Flory the octogenarian lobbyist if Traut gets elected? Who’s kidding who? Her victimhood is based on not being able to be a political hack?

All of this adds up to very little, really, except to spread a little unintended humor to the good people of Fullerton.

Jan Flory Sues OC Registrar Over Fred Jung Ballot Statement

I was bamboozled…

Yes, that Jan Flory. The Mistress of a hundred Fullerton disasters during her three terms on the Fullerton City Council.

New and improved. At least that’s her story.

It seems she is very unhappy with Mr. Jung for his Supervisorial campaign ballot designation as a business owner and many of his claims in the ballot statement. She is so unhappy, in fact, that she is acting as a surrogate for Connor Traut, who is pretty unlikely to state his real occupation: ambulance chaser.

I’m a bid, I’m a plane, I’m a lawyer!

Anyway, Flory claims Jung has resorted to falsehoods about his record, including the Fullerton budget; and she should know. She lied to the people of Fullerton about her budgets as being balanced when of course they weren’t, facts she didn’t share with voters in her recent try for a fourth time around the track.

She has sent her complaint to the courts naming the OC Registrar of Voters, Bob Page, as the respondent.

What’s a Chamber of Commerce For?

A Friend has forwarded a press release from the North Orange County Chamber of Commerce. This used to be the Fullerton Chamber of Commerce that merged with other groups in neighboring towns, I’ve been told.

The Chamber is throwing itself a birthday party brunch in celebration of 133 years of existence. The fare, donuts, is in keeping with the odd year number to celebrate.

Notice that presentations will be made by Republic Services, the massive corporate trash hauler whose contract with Fullerton is up this year; and SCAG, the completely opaque regional agency responsible for the nonsensical 13,000 new housing units shoved up our backside by the Sacramento Affordable Housing Cartel (SAHC). That seems sooooo fitting.

For the past 30 years Fullerton Chamber of Commerce has gone from tax-fighter to weak little sister of Fullerton City Hall. Under the dim bulb Theresa Harvey, the Chamber became an auxiliary of the City, which is appropriate because after she left the Chamber she became the Chair of the CSUF Auxiliary – another totally opaque agency that plays monopoly with money with virtually no oversight.

The Chamber became a lap dog, not a watch dog for the waste and dumbassery in City Hall. Ms. Harvey was a completely clueless puppet. Under her, the Chamber actually threw their lot in with the public employee unions in 2020 in support of the Measure S sales tax.

It likes meal worms.

Parenthetically, the CSUF Auxiliary has become a final stop for local small-time influence shoppers like Harvey and her predecessor James Alexander, and that brought us the disastrous Elk’s Club/Universaity Heights faculty housing debacle.

Apparently there’s a new guy in charge at the Chamber, but I can’t say I’m hopeful. The Chamber should be promoting small businesses at City Hall, and promoting economy and efficiency in local government, not “tax your way out of it” boohooism. Will it?

Anyway, I thought back to the days in 1993 and 1994 when the Chamber stood up for businesses large and small, fighting City Hall on the unnecessary utility tax imposed by McClanahan, Bankhead, and A.B. Catlin. Those were fun times.

Shana Charles In Bed With the Dope Cartel?

Green means green. One way or another…

FFFF has taken advantage of numerous opportunities to relate the doings of the cannabis lobby in Fullerton.

The train of thought was weak but it sure was short…

We have all seen how Ahmad Zahra has endorsed the the idea of a cannabis dispensary on almost any commercial corner in Fullerton; how the sad mental train wreck of Jesus Quirk-Silva was eager to spread the pain to all of Fullerton’s representative districts. That’s old news, from 2020.

Cannabis Kitty Jaramillo

News of more recent vintage is that in 2024 the dope lobby, fronted by the grocery store workers union pitched in to elect Cannabis Kitty Jaramillo with an astounding $60,000, dumped into a pro Jaramillo political action committee.

How come? Because this union also represents the cannabis dispensary works in Orange County. I note that the origin and intent of this contribution was never discussed in the pages of the Fullerton Observer.

Andre finds a pearl in an oyster…

Of that $60,000, $4000 was shuffled to Andre Charles, who styles himself a political consultant. What he does between elections remains a mystery, as does the service he provided Team Jaramillo for that $4000. But Andre’s sketchy employment history is of little concern, except that the source of his conjugal bliss is none other than Mrs. Shana Charles, a Fullerton City Council member and a vociferous advocate for public health.

Ms. Shana, as FFFF has noted, is running for re-election in Fullerton’s District 3 this fall. She has kicked off a re-election campaign and has begun the task of fundraising. Her second biggest contribution was $1500, and came from came from the very same dope workers union that fronted the Cannabis Kitty PAC. A coincidence? I doubt it.

Mrs. Flory’s education was complete. The designated driver was on the way.

The marijuana dispensary lobby needs three votes to revive the ill-formed dope ordinance of 2020 approved just before the election of that year by Ahmad Zahra, Jesus Quirk-Silva, and the possibly sober Jan Flory (pictured above). That ordinance was revoked a few months later and the lobby determined that it was worth a huge monetary investment in Fullerton politics.

The Money Game

Money is the mother’s milk of politics – the famous phrase shamelessly coined by Jesse Unruh, former California politician and fixer.

And nowhere is this more true than in Orange County, where Supervisorial districts include 600,000 residents and getting people out to vote (for you) requires lots of investment in media of one kind or another. Setting aside independent political action committees, the politician’s own expenditure is critical.

Since our own District 4 Supervisorial job is up for election in 2026 (the senile and corrupt Doug “Bud” Chaffee being termed out) it is timely, on the verge of a primary campaign, to see how much money the various candidates have raised, and how much they have on hand.

The second half of 2025 finance statements for the D4 candidates are now viewable on line. The results of July-December fundraising are interesting.

That’s Mayor Jung to you…

The big cash leader is Fullerton’s own Mayor, Fred Jung. He raised a whopping $145,000 bucks in the second half of 2025, and had a cash balance of $354,000. He’d have more but spent almost 50K in 2025 mostly on campaign consultants. That’s a lot of money.

Little fish, big pond…

Connor Traut the eager office hopper from Buena Park; the carpetbagger who lusts after politcal office, raised $64,000 and has $225,000 in the bank. Of course $100,000 of that was shifted from his existing campaign account, a move he sleazily pretended was a real 24 hour fundraising effort.

Tim Shaw

Tim Shaw, the only Republican in the race raised $60,000 and has $69,000 on hand.

Rosie addresses the Boys in the Back (of the) Room; Will they hear her?

The final candidate who I am aware of is Rose Espinosa from La Habra. She raised a paltry $14K, but thanks to one of those personal loans politicians make to themselves, in this case $150,000, she’s got a $160,000 total.

The primary election is June 2nd, so a tsunami of political outreach will probably be starting in a month or so. What are the prospects for these free spenders?

Won’t look you in the eye while you’re trashing him…

Fullerton is in the 4th Supervisorial District, in fact, it is the largest city completely within the boundary of the district. Three of the last four D4 Supervisors have been on the Fullerton City Council. This gives Fred Jung a natural edge over candidates from Fullerton’s much smaller neighbors like Buena Park and La Habra. Jung, however has no help from a political party, if in fact that means much anymore. He is now registered NPP – no political party preference. His record of defying the kooks in Fullerton will help, not hurt him with conservatives and independents.

Catch and release?

Connor Traut is the nebbish candidate of the Democrat establishment and has all the usual endorsement from the same people endorsing the thief Paulette Chaffee for NOCCCD board. He has a lot of money on hand, but only 63% of what Jung has stockpiled. Being an elected in Buena Park isn’t much of a help since it is historically apathetic in politics and he moved there just to get into a municipal office.

The Village People just called…

Tim Shaw, the only Republican running, has zero hope of being elected. He came close seven years ago, but the district has become even more Democrat and less Republican. He is a member of the whackadoodle and opaque OC Board of Education. That will get him some charter school lobby money as a sop. He might do well enough to make a run-off in November by coming in second, but he can’t win in a general election. In 2022 two Democrats made the runoff. Shaw has no path to victory.

Her garage door won’t open…

Rose Espinoza, another Democrat, has no foreseeable path, either. All the Dems are behind Traut, for what that’s worth, and Espinosa has no name ID outside of small La Habra, where getting elected doesn’t seem all that difficult. Still, as the only woman in the election she’s got that going for her. But she hasn’t raised much money. But she is willing to risk her own dough, apparently, and that says something. Something sort of Paulette Chaffee-esque. She has run for Supervisor two or three time previously way out of the money.

Anaheim Flatlands

The OC 4th District Supervisor election is likely going to be won in the flatlands of Anaheim where none of the above candidates is very well known. There are lots of Latino voters in these precincts and that might help Espinosa. There could be the better part of 25,000 to 30,000 votes there. Large, but not enough to help an Anaheimer do well. At this late date I can’t think of any who could or would try to run.