Judge Orders Trial in Kelly Thomas Killing

The judge was not impressed.

This afternoon in Santa Ana, Superior Court Judge Walter Schwarm declared that sufficient evidence exists to warrant a trial for the two Fullerton cops accused in the death of the mentally ill, homeless man, Kelly Thomas last July. Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli will stand trial for second degree murder and involuntary manslaughter, respectively.

Although many critics have claimed that more serious charges should have been brought against all the officers charged, it should be noted that on-duty cops have never been prosecuted for a capital crime in the County’s history.

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279 thoughts on “Judge Orders Trial in Kelly Thomas Killing

    1. No more marine just out of the corps.
      Put them in the post office, the library, kinder care, but not out on the street anymore.
      Why would cities want to hire marines who have been trained and ordered to kill, and put them on the street with our people?
      You know that they need years of decompression before they can acclimate to civilian life!
      Give them light duty jobs until they come to terms with the Horror Bush put them thru.
      What fucking idiots! Using Marines as a means to an end after they have been shooting and killing, and possibly by mistake, foreign babies too!
      Give the Marines a break! They have been ordered to do horrible things, and some of them struggle to forgive themselves and end up losing all sense of humanity.
      Money does nothing to cure the problem.

      1. Like I said on the other post. Sissynelli was a Marine over 20 years ago. He was a cop Waaaayyy longer than he was ever a Marine. He did this because he could as a cop. Screw you and shut up when you do not know what you are talking about.

            1. The marines are the greatest gift we have. There is no force feared in the world more than the marines. You better thank one next time you meet one because they gave you the right to bad mouth them.

              Every marine is disgusted right now with these two cops and their actions. We know how to kill yet we know more importantly how to use restraint. These cops forgot that as cops not as marines.

              1. Classic diversionary tactic from Mr Rico. When all else fails just bring up children, women, abortion, gays, religion, the troops, terrorism, etc then take a seat and watch the silly minions battle it out.

                Its all bullshit.

                1. Bad mouth a marine and you get your Jaw broken.

                  http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.

                  This article doesn’t tell you what happened to some of the gang bangers. a few ended up in the hospital too. My sister took the call when she was working dispatch.

                  Steve brown had been to my house a few times. Great guy until he drank alcohol. Now he’s a cop in Texas. Those guys were badasses, but generally good guys.

                  I found out they were drinking and someone gave someone the stink eye, then an argument broke out, and I was told it went like this:

                  “Hey we fought for this country, if you don’t like then go back to Mexico”

                  12 gang bangers came back, then the fight broke out. 4 of these guys survived fighting 3 to 1 odds and fucked up some of the gang bangers. the news shut down the story because the marines were drunk that night and had a hand in the situation.

                  Later on. it took some time before they were able to catch 2 or 3 of the attackers, so they could be put away with the 3 strikes your out law.

                  I am surrounded by Marine corps, the Marines I know always watch my back and I like having them around, are good company, hard workers, but if there is a problem with sadist groups sticking together out of the Corps, like the FPD, Then that shit has to be shut down.

              2. I thank all my family members that served in the corps. My family members don’t get a sexual miss happened pleaser out of beating people!

                I’m greatful for the former Marine Corps judges that work here in orange county. They know how to stop the bullshit.

                Only Marines can fuck up a Marine.

    1. No but I’m sure Captain (Acting Chief) Dan Hughes will come out shortly to say there is and never has been any corruption within Fullerton PD.

    2. Absolutely not Joe. In fact, I noted that Chief Hughes was no where to be found in court either????

      When I was in the military, if a sub-ordinate got in any sort of trouble with the local police, it was standard operating procedure, or military protocol, for the officer in charge of that person to accompany them to civilian court.

      I would expect no less from Dan Hughes.
      I would’ve expected no less from the FPD commander

    1. I can confirm Dan Hughes was not there. I was speaking to him on the phone for the better of an hour this morning.

      1. He really earned his pay today if he had to waste an hour of his busy day listening to you prattle on about bullshit. The rattling inside his brain from your voice in his ears must have left him half a retard. And to add insult to injury you delivered your typical bile in a heavy, labored breath…..oh, the humanity.

        1. Something tells me that if the police had listened to good hearted people like Erin, that they wouldn’t be in the predicament that they currently find themselves in.

    1. Marlena, you’ve developed a fan base below! You have arrived! lol

      Such jealous creatures abound. Many of us know of your Gulf War service, your endless and tireless service to the community and your advocacy for the homeless. You’re beautiful as well as kind and the fact that you end up in a few shots with Ron Thomas is apparently a threat to the insecure. Meh…they’ll eventually go back into the woodwork or rather, the holes they crawled out of.

    1. I love the 70’s porn star look Ron is going for these days.

      Who is the hot tweaker blond with huge tits I always see standing behind Ron? She always makes sure to get in the camera shot when Ron’s getting interviewed and she’s usually sporting a tank top to show off her cans better. Someone posted a pic of her with a couple other skanks posing in front of an anti-recall sign they stole out of someone’s front yard.

      1. That’s Marlena. She gets up in the council meetings and talks about an incident that happened with her daughter and a fpd officer. She is a strong supporter in Kelly’s Army, but yeah, she seems to enjoy being right in the spotlight – always right behind Ron. It’s obvious and kind of funny, actually. But she means well, and if I looked that good at 43, I’d be flaunting it, too! I get the feeling she used to be a dancer…or something.

          1. Pffttt…high school mentality of tag teaming, Merijoe; nothing more (and nothing new). They’ll eventually move on to someone else. :::yawn:::

            1. You know, that really was immature for me to respond to RJ. Marlena does seem to be a sweet lady with a big heart. I am not sure what got into me. Maybs it was jealousy. I forgot she had served in the military. My apologies. She has much to be proud of. And I was not working tag team with RJ. I think the stress of what has transpired this week got to me a little. Way to go, me. Sorry, Marlena. Keep on fighting and thank you for your service with KA.

              1. Very cool of you to publicly admit a wrong.

                Marlena is an absolute angel. To refer to Marlena as anything less is sacrosanct.

              2. I agree with FL, that was very nice of you to apologize. The last few days have been difficult for all of us. I didn’t want to give the idiot’s comment any traction which is why I posted Marlena’s attributes above it as a comment on one of her posts.

  1. “on-duty cops have never been prosecuted for a capital crime in the County’s history.”

    Time to make history for Kelly!

  2. YES!!!! It is so great that the Judge sees and understands that they should stand trial….and hopefully the others will stand trial if the FBI is able to bring charges as well.

      1. It’s possible; however, I prefer to believe that there still are a lot of people who have a conscience and morals.

      2. I could tell you as someone who observed the entire preliminary hearing, that there wasn’t a soul in that court, INCLUDING the two dozen deputies there for security, that would have let either of the suspects walk away from those charges.

  3. Pretty soon “Let’s Roll” is gonna be applied to not just terrorists on a plane, but to USA cops too.

    – mondiablue


    1. Dekalb County police officer Jerad Wheeler was called to a home to settle a domestic dispute involving a pregnant woman named Raven Dozier, her brother and his child and baby’s mother.

      As things escalated Wheeler pulled out his taser and used it on Dozier’s brother. She says that’s when she started crying and asking the officer why he used a taser on her brother.
      Wheeler must not have been in a talking mood because after he used the taser on him, he then kicked Dozier in the stomach.

      “I think he really just didn’t want me asking him any questions, questioning him, and when I did question him is when he kicked me,” she tells Atlanta’s Channel 2 Action News. “I was upset because I couldn’t believe an officer would kick me, with my child in my stomach.”

      Dozier was almost nine months pregnant and wound up giving birth via an emergency C-section two weeks after the kick left a bruise. The now 4-month old baby was born and is healthy.

      “What kind of a human being kicks a pregnant woman?” says Dozier’s attorney Mark Bullman. “I mean, forget whether or not it is a police officer that is supposedly protecting people.”

      Officer Wheeler says that he couldn’t tell that Dozier was pregnant and that he only kicked her because she came at him aggressively. He also described the kick as “a front push kick to the abdomen, as he was taught to do at the academy,” in his police report.

      http://loop21.com/life/cop-kicks-pregnant-woman-stomach

      1. “Taught to do at the academy.”

        If that’s the case, its time to close that academy down and fire everyone who teaches at it.

      2. An epidemic of biblical proportions!

        See corrupt? thats what happens when dumb ass sadist’s like you are hired onto the force.

  4. For the rest of you fullerton cops, beware! You will be charged. If Ramos would have been professional, we wouldn’t be talking about this now. I hope he rots in prison!

  5. I really hope the trial gets jurors smart enough to see through some of this bullshit:

    Quote: “Barnett contended that what is perceived to be a threat by Ramos to Thomas – “See these fists? They are getting ready to f— you up” – was followed by the statement “If you don’t do what we tell you.”

    “It was a conditional threat,” Barnett said. “All Kelly Thomas would have had to do was simply comply. … Officer Ramos had every right to issue that threat.”

    Those officers are not here because of a threat. I think most if not all officers use threats for compliance, but using threats and putting them into action is something else entirely. Threat became motive in this case and that is why this trial is happening, duh! Is this guy a real lawyer or what?

    “The video, according to Schwartz, appears to show Cicinelli pulling his Taser away from the reach of Thomas, who was trying to wrestle the weapon from his hand, Schwartz said, and Cicinelli was trained as a police officer to never give up his weapon.”

    How does Thomas wrestle the weapon from Cicinelli’s hand with two guys(Wolfe&Ramos) on top of him and with one hand? Have you ever tried to wrestle another guy that has two hands free with one hand? From what I was seeing on that video, Kelly was trying to stop Cicinelli from using that taser on him while trying to wiggle out from under two officers to get a breathe. That’s the difference.

    1. If it is any comfort, there are so many more witnesses to call for the prosecution. This was just the tip of the iceberg. And rest assured that the prosecution will exploit the fact that the video shows that:

      A. The Officers KNEW Kelly’s name already and were just trying to confuse and agitate him, and

      B. Ramos himself mention that he talked to Kelly every night for an extended period of time.

      1. And I hope that is enough to put these guys away. I am kind of leery since they say that this is the first time in Orange County to prosecute cops which would mean this could be the first time they would convict cops and well, the first one always seems to be the hardest. The forces that wanted to cover this up maybe past the cover-up stage. So the next stage maybe damage control. What is that going to look like? There is a reason why Orange County haven’t prosecuted cops. Well, it is going to be interesting and new for this county on how it plays out.

        1. I think the violence in the video speaks for itself. I applaud everyone in your community that enabled this to happen. It was no small feat to even crack the armor plated corruption around the FPD. I hope and pray that the DA WILL bring charges against Wolfe.

    2. Anybody with any sense at all should realize that a severely mentally ill person — which Kelly obviously was — CANNOT “simply comply”. Has either Barnett or Ramos heard of mental illness?

  6. How many times on the video does Thomas say he’s sorry and cannot breathe? Many times; I lost count. The Fullerton ‘officers’ couldn’t have cared less. False police reports, extensive past history of excessive force in FPD, Ignoring citizen complaints of excessive force, intimidation of citizens who filed complaints, attempted confiscation of cell phone video evidence, etc. These signs, plus that video are a wake-up call to all Americans to get to know their rights as citizen when being questioned on the street. Nowhere in the America I used to know, should citizens be treated like disobedient dogs by public servants (police/ peace officers). Attorney Barnett has his work cut out for him. If by slim chance these two goons win their case and walk free, I’ve got some bad news, the place will probably be a repeat of Downtown LA in ’93. Does not matter if the man’s skin is white, or what. No justification for that type of force despite the verbal jabs by Thomas in response to the ‘Simon says’ tactics used by Ramos. The way I see it Kelly Thomas was provoked by Ramos, not the other way around. The foul, juvenile language used by Ramos is reason alone for him to be dismissed as a ‘peace officer’. Enough is enough. This latest episode is good reason that all Fullerton cops on the beat be supervised live by real-time video recording apparatus by an outside neutral agency, monitored by citizens in a separate facility. This video monitoring system would include, of course, the inmate reception / jail cell area of the cop shop iteslf as well as other areas where these cop goons fabricate their reports that appear in court as evidence of truth. This system of video monitoring / supervising / babysitting would accomplish two important things: a) This type of behavior by police officers would stop FAST. b) Valuable taxpayer funds would not be in jeopardy of being squandered on attorney’s fees to defend the indefensble in court. 25-Years-to-life for all who wrote those false reports in an attempt to cover up the incident and had a hand on Thomas. EVIDENCE OF COVERUP IS EVIDENCE OF GUILT. This crap has to stop – and it will stop.

    1. After watching Pinnochio and Lampwick, and their attorney’s “Honest John”(Barnett) and “Gideon” (Schwartz) sell Wolfe down the river, my instincts tell me that the District Attorney will now have a much easier time convincing Officer Wolfe to co-operate.

    2. Can we circulate a petition to people who could possibly be on the jury to promise not to be Rutabagas?

  7. Hot in Fullerton, according to Jon and Ken KFI 640 AM, 21 Sheriffs Deputies were at the Courtroom awaiting the Judges decision, 13 stood up and faced the audience just before the Judges decision. Later they said very big changes face Fullerton Police Department, maybe even the absorbtion of the FPD by OC Sheriffs Dept.
    *****************************************************

    KFI AM 640 does live local news on the hour…on the half…and when it breaks. Our reporters and anchors have won more than two dozen awards over the past decade for excellence in news broadcasting. KFI News is quick, informative, entertaining, unique and relatable.

    KFI NEWS Tip Line: (323) CALL-KFI
    Answered by a live person 24/7

    1. INTIMIDATION TACTICS. escalation tactics, killing with impunity ! you dumb, stupid cops: we live in a “internet age” where REPUTATION can’t be earned through slicing/dicing words, video splices, etc, it’s earned through convincing TAXPAYING U.S. CITIZENS who have graduated at least high school, and knows what happens when your head is smashed in with a taser, + on top of being tasered, on top of being crushed with a couple of dirty cop terrorists with “police powers” sitting on your chest (lungs).

  8. KILLING with impunity by lying, falsifying, fabricating, drug-crazed, overtime-abusing, unionized, armed-dickhead dirty cop terrorists with ” police powers.” Move to North korea, move to Turkey, move to Russia, move to Israel, move to Egypt, move to Bahrain, move to Cuba, we have enough cockroaches in the United States. 5-09-2012 WED.

    1. They don’t want Fullerton cops in Israel, or Mexico for that matter. They will find it extremely difficult to obtain a job in California. They could become an independent sales consultant for herbalife, but they are too fat already. Looks like a sad time for FPD over the next two years, criminal trial, civil trial, depositions, finger pointing, etc.
      And hopefully, a city council who hires an attorney and city manager who have the people of Fullerton’s best interests at heart, not the developer/contributors.

  9. While I still can’t get past the first few minutes of the video, I’ve seen the part where Ramos tells Kelly his hands will eff him up. I’ve seen it at least half a dozen times on the news, maybe more. But I’ve yet to hear the provisional part where Kelly will be effed up IF he doesn’t comply. Does this part actually exist or is it more fantasy bs put out by Ramo’s attorney?

  10. I am glad the prelim ended in the manner it did. I also heard that OCSD is looking at taking control of the department. Has anyone else heard this or is it just rumor?

    1. It is being looked into but will only happen if a NEW city council is seated. The liabilities facing Fullerton are huge and bankruptcy or (ho ho ho) a water tax increase will be needed to pay for the misdeeds of FPD. One way to end that is to absorb the department into the Sheriff’s organization but that would let worthless examples of policing like Lt. Andy Goodlie maintain his job albeit at a lower pay scale. Nice that the Chief is only acting since he is sure to follow his predecessors into disability retirement!

  11. Power to the people and may the truth continue to stand on its own. If they can get away with murder on camera on national television we are all in trouble. May we never allow our nation to go down that slippery slope. Thank God for those instrumental in getting this story out when the media wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole, the feet on the ground and the hands on the keyboards keeping the fire burning, and not cowering to the intimidation and threats by those on the wrong side of things. Today I am extremely proud to be a Fullerton resident. Fullerton stood up like no other city I have ever seen in my life. What an eclectic bunch not to be taken lightly Fullerton has. Fullerton is on its way to becoming safe again. When the convictions come, and they will, may we never forget the one who gave his life in order for us to wake out of our slumber. The ramifications of which may never be fully grasped by all but they are so far reaching to the cause of freedom.

    1. I second your post, Truthseeker.

      Today I am proud to be a Fullerton resident. Like I said, “We’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take it anymore”.

  12. In every single article that is covering this case the comment threads are full of people all agreeing that what they saw was a murder and wrong and unjustified. These are people from all over the world asking the same questions of how could this happen and wanting all the cops to be put away for life. They are seeing the horror and obvious truth of Kelly being killed in cold blood. They see through the BS being spewed out by the defense.

    It’s crystal clear this was murder to all who are not bias to the police. As the case goes forward more truth will come out and more people will be
    agreeing that these goons need to be put away for good. Bottom line, the light of truth is shining bright and no amount of lies and deceit can darken it.

  13. P.S. My friends and I no longer go to any downtown Fullerton watering holes. We used to run up huge bills, and now we save a lot of bucks. Of course, the restauranteurs all say “Its the economy”, but we say “It’s your city, stupid!”

      1. Interesting report in the OCWeekly’s “Stick A Fork In It” about the owner of the Continental (isn’t that the Florentine owner? He of the sidewalk fame?) setting up a “beer and whisky” venue called HopScotch in the DTF area.

        How can Fullerton justify adding yet another alcohol-based business to DTF?

        1. If true, I wonder if it will be where Cherch was. Wouldn’t that be convenient for good ol’ Foultine? The good ol’ boys know their gravy train is about to be derailed and will do as much damage as they can before it happens.

          1. I believe the location is the former Spadra Restaurant, with a patio overlooking the murder scene. They have started painting the graphics on the building and there is a sign proclaiming it is coming.

    1. Right on Tuco!

      The only means we have to get the attention of those downtown watering holes that have provided cover and God knows what else for the FPD in the past, is to boycott places like Roscoes, Heroes, Florentines, and of course the Slidebar, in the future.

  14. Is that a correct report? the OCSD is going to wrest the reigns away from fpd? Great! if true, take the wrecking ball to pd, salt the earth!

    1. that is what I heard reported on KFI, but time will tell. There have been so many rumors(and lies) it’s hard to know what to believe when it comes to culture of corruption and the FPD.

      1. I swear someone posted that Sandra Hutchings was milling around FPD or City Hall about 2 months ago.

        1. Hutchins has been there more than once, would be my guess. I am not sure if that wold be going from the pan to the fire, but it is interesting to consider. YL is now under OCSD but it is far too early to read how that has worked for them. And their situation isn’t even comparable to Fullerton’s.

          I do feel the entire FPD is at a 90% flush rate, 80% being kind. And IMO, if Bruce doesn’t speak up soon the city council is at a 100% rate.

  15. Nomad :
    Is that a correct report? the OCSD is going to wrest the reigns away from fpd? Great! if true, take the wrecking ball to pd, salt the earth!

    No more marine just out of the corps.
    Put them in the post office, the library, kinder care, but not out on the street anymore.
    Why would cities want to hire marines who have been trained and ordered to kill, and put them on the street with our people?
    You know that they need years of decompression before they can acclimate to civilian life!
    Give them light duty jobs until they come to terms with the Horror Bush put them thru.
    What fucking idiots! Using Marines as a means to an end after they have been shooting and killing, and possibly by mistake, foreign babies too!
    Give the Marines a break! They have been ordered to do horrible things, and some of them struggle to forgive themselves and end up losing all sense of humanity.
    Money does nothing to cure the problem.

      1. My uncle served in the Marines, My cousin was beaten to death by 3 cops, Screw you!

        Our Family Was in the same boat the Thomas’s Family is in now.

        Look corruption, The real shot callers are going to make some heads roll.

        O.C. is under investigation, and eventualy, every current and future rat that makes onto the force, will face justice for the bull shit, assholes like Ramos and Jay, try to do.

        And It may be handled by former Marines in the system that see the corruption 1st hand.

        Remember: Just when you thought you won the rat race, along come faster rats.

        Corruption, get you shit together, Kelly’s murder was a perminant solution to a temporary problem brought upon prolonged exposer to social ills.

        Marines need to decompress, 10 years, before joining the force. It’s healthy for them, It’s healthy for the public.

        I doubt you ever lost any family in you life in the way we had too.

        I bet you only live for that pension and a case of beer after work.

        You did go to school, right?

  16. Barnett contended that what is perceived to be a threat by Ramos to Thomas – “See these fists? They are getting ready to f— you up” – was followed by the statement “If you don’t do what we tell you.”

    “It was a conditional threat,” Barnett said. “All Kelly Thomas would have had to do was simply comply. … Officer Ramos had every right to issue that threat.

    So, cops can threaten to beat the shit out of someone if we don’t comply, versus arresting if we don’t comply? This defense attorney, as if we didn’t already know, is slime on the slime on a slime bucket

    1. That’s not a clear order- a clear order is …do what your told and sit down or lay down and put your hands behind your back.

      If a copper came up to me and started rambling about what language do I need and that his partner speaks this one or that one-I think I’d start to get scared. I mean who does that?

      Ramos was blabbering on about some nonsense-anyone know how long that went on for? Is he Schitzophrenic too? maybe he should be tested.

    2. I have never seen an attorney have to stop to get his water bottle as often as “Honest John” Barnett did while spewing this garbage theory in court.

      His lips must be get dry whenever the words coming out of his mouth don’t match up with what’s inside of his heart.

  17. Judge Schwarm was a T-rack pupil. He used to work for T-rack up until he became a judge. He is still doing T-rack’s work. I thought Walt would have made his own decision but he didn’t. T-rack is handling this case himself because nobody in his office wants to take it. Conflict right here.

      1. Fullerton Lover do you have inside information about the inside politics of the DA’s office or are you just talking out of your ass?

          1. Would you feel comfortable sharing parts of it with those whom wish to honestly know more about the situation (that includes myself)? And I am not asking in an insincere manner or attempting to belittle you at all.

            1. Due to the complexity of the case, I do know that the DA has roughly a dozen deputy district attorneys assisting him.

  18. A couple of questions Barnett will be asking any potential jurors before they even get out of the parking lot-“are you a poster on FFFF” and “are you a member of Kelly’s army”

    1. Probably – and wondering how soon he and Schwartz can ask for a change of venue for the trial as I think they will

      1. Thanks, Mox for writing that and saving me the effort.

        That man is a useless sack of shit.

    1. R. Scott Moxley quote: “…Thomas did not die because he fearfully tried to flee violence-hungry cops. He prematurely died because some immature officers believed they were free to inflict whatever damage they wished on a defenseless human being—and that no one would hold them accountable for being thugs.”

      Thank you Mr. Moxley!!! Amen and Amen!!!

  19. Great interview today with Tony Rackauckas on KFI with John & Ken. He gives a succinct overview of the reasons why the cops are guilty.

    Additionally, he rebukes the officers notion that Kelly was fighting back. Kelly was wiggling and squirming because he was being crushed to death and slowly suffocated by the weight of six fat ass cops sitting on his chest. You can clearly hear Kelly cry out that he could not breath until his voice finally tapers off and he loses consciousness.

    Another point for all the asshats that feel the video shows Kelly resisting arrest. According to Rackauckas, resisting arrest does not justify beating a person to death.

      1. WTF?!? According to DA Raukackus on this interview, the defense gets to appeal the prelims not just once but twice. Dam, this is going to drag on.. geez, the court system need a change IMO.

  20. Can someone answer something for me? In reading the transcripts from Wolf’s DAR there are several other officers listed as being present and involved such as Tony Rios, Lloyd White, Jonathan Munoz, John Ema, Mike Bova, Jose Torres and David McShane. How come we haven’t heard about any of these guys?

  21. where is sharon the dictator?
    has she spoken out?
    next weekS counsel meeting everyone should show up!
    AND THE PROTEST SHOULD RESUME UNTILL THOSE PIGS ARE FIRED

  22. Singhania also testified that Thomas suffered a complete hemorrhaging of his left eye. ….What was going thru Cicinelli’s head the night when he was hitting Kelly near the eyes. Was he only trying to do doing what others had done to him in LA many years prior? Didn’t someone take away his left eye that cost him his career at LAPD? Was he looking for a moment such as this where he could vent his feelings on someone he thought would never answer back?

    1. the guy that shot him was also heavily bearded like Kelly.they should have checked half pipes undies for spoogie when it was over. i mean he liked it so much it was funny and worthy of bragging right?

  23. LOL ask for a statement and get something dumb like this. Be careful what you ask for. You got it. Or is it you go tit?

    Statement released by the City today (5/9/12):

    The City of Fullerton understands today’s ruling by Superior Court Judge Walter Schwarm to compel a jury trial of two Fullerton police officers accused in the death of Kelly Thomas. According to Fullerton Mayor Sharon Quirk-Silva, “This has been traumatic for our entire City; however, we need to come together and let the judicial system unfold. The trial is the proper forum for the facts in this case to be presented, vetted and decided.”

    Regardless of the outcome, the City has begun a comprehensive process to improve the police department. To date, the City has taken extraordinary measures to evaluate every aspect of the department to improve police service, training and guidelines for the use of force.

    Specifically, the Fullerton Police Department has:

    – Hired an independent expert in the provision of police services to examine every aspect of the police department and provide recommendations for improvement.
    – Instituted ongoing Crisis Intervention Team training which covers handling individuals with a wide range of mental illness.
    – Contracted with OC Mental Health Services to have a clinician ride with our officers on a regular basis.
    – The City established a Homeless Task Force to make recommendations on a wide range of issues regarding the homeless.
    – Added 10 hour training course on the use of force including legal, reasonable and ethical decision making.
    – Created a new interfaith chaplain program to include chaplains responding to major incidents to help victims and occasionally riding in police cars with officers.
    – Rewritten the Police Department policy manual and made it available to the public on the City’s website.

    Since the altercation was first reported to Fullerton Police Command Staff, the department has involved the District Attorney’s office in every aspect of the investigation and has provided all evidence, witnesses and reports to the District Attorney.

    1. Nice ‘feel good’ comment there RI.

      I like what Sharon QS says: “According to Fullerton Mayor Sharon Quirk-Silva, “This has been traumatic for our entire City; however, we need to come together and let the judicial system unfold. The trial is the proper forum for the facts in this case to be presented, vetted and decided.”

      That is her way of saying to the public, “please do NOT come to our council meetings to talk about this incident and tell us how incompetent we are.”

      1. Yes, you got it. The usual blather about pulling together, blah, blah, blah.

        A chaplain ride along? Hahaha!

    2. Blah. Blah. Blah. Or should I say Bah-Bah-Bah?

      I can’t figure out if Sharon Quirk Silva is really that stupid?

      Or is Sharon Quirk Silva really that naive?

      Either way I expect neither from my elected representatives.

    3. Contracted with OC Mental Health Services to have a clinician ride with our officers on a regular basis.

      Problem with this is:

      1) They’re only available 9 to 5 (excluding nights, weekends, holidays, furlough days, lunch time, etc).

      2) They only come after the fact also Kelly wasnt having a mental health crisis in fact he wasnt doing anything, wasnt breaking any laws, etc.

      The rest of this “extraordinary” press release is just pure mind numbing bullshit.

  24. So why is Barnett still insisting that Ramos won’t go to trial?

    “Barnett insisted that despite today’s decision, Ramos won’t face a murder trial — though he declined to elaborate.”

    1. That is what I would also like to know.

      He’s pulling rabbits out of his hat, I think.

      On the other hand, there are so many technicalities.

      1. He’s pulling BS out of his own ass as well…

        I thought it was brilliant in the systematic way the prosecution first showed the photos of all the cops involved as they were taken by the CSI lady who was first on the witness stand.
        If you were there and recall, officer Joe Wolfe had the largest and most cuts and abraisions on his knees and elbows than any other officer. What does that tell you?
        Then they brought up the lead paramedic (28 year veteran of FFD) who stated upon arrival an officer approached him to ONLY tell him about the officers little kid cuts.
        I cannnot wait for the real show to start…

        1. You know, this isn’t going a popular to say but I wonder if part of the DA’s investigation involves making sure past convictions or current cases based upon these officers’ involvement in them are iron clad. I think the DA tried to minimize the damage this might have on prior convictions. I wish I had some sort of comparative data so I could see how many cases + convictions are dependent on each involved officer. That might be pretty explanatory. Lets say Wolfe is charged and convicted (WHICH I SUPPORT AND WANT) and because of this 10 murderers and rapists go free on a technicality. It makes his crime that much more evil because of the long term ramifications of his actions beyond the initial murder. This is why OFFICERS SHOULD AND MUST BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD THAN THE AVERAGE CITIZEN.

    2. Because he’s a dirtbag defense attorney who will say anything to win his case.Notice how he doesn’t have any facts to back up his big talk when called on it?

      He’s the same POS that defended Mike Corona’s rapist son and some other boys, who took advantage of a passed out girl using a Snapple bottle.

      He defended them by saying (in court) the girl knew what was going on and was actually practicing to be a porn star. He belittled and humiliated this victim every chance he got and didn’t care who was on the stand or in the court.

      1. @ Merijoe,

        Put credit where its delightfully due. Your facts are really jacked up. Attorney Joseph Cavallo defended Gregory Scott Haidl, the rapist.

        Haidl’s father worked for Mike Corona in the Sheriffs department.

        1. I stand corrected, it was Carl Nachriener, Barnett defended. He was one of the Haidl buddies.

          (Im not sure why I said Mike Corona, it was Greg Haidl son of the former assistant Orange County sheriff Don Haidl that I was referring to)

          http://www.ocregister.com/articles/nachreiner-244065-sex-prison.html

          “Nachreiner’s former attorney, John Barnett, describes those conditions as “draconian,” in part because Nachreiner was a juvenile when he committed the crime.”

          “Lifelong registration is disproportionate to the crime,” Barnett says.”

  25. Mr Barnett, is haunted by all those innocents that have been wronged by this man or who he represents, it must be hell at night, listening to all those lost souls you stole justice from, may barnett rot in hs own juices until the day I can be his nurse and treat him accordingly…

  26. In more hopeful news, I’ve been scanning articles and A LOT of them are calling for charges against Wolfe. A FOX article states that the DA has not closed the case and is still considering additional charges.

  27. When I was in court the other day the autopsy photos were shown and I noticed the left side had more damage than the right side- to me this was because the person who delivered these blows and injuries had to be favoring his right side-if you cover your left eye with your hand it will show that the right side is favored-and if you are right handed then when facing someone- you will tend to go for that person’s left side.

  28. Barnett is a typical defense attorney. He will say anything to create doubt regarding his clients guilt. Cicinelli and Ramos will go to trial.

    Tony Rackauckas addressed Barnett’s lame ass strategy in one of his after court interviews. He anticipated the trial will occur in about October because the defense can file for a review and an appeal. The filing for the review and appeal is routine defense strategy.

    T-Rack stated he has gathered enough evidence to meet the standard of the law for a guilty verdict. Now that’s information you can believe in, not the BS that flies from Barnett’s mouth

  29. Carol Leo :
    The time is now to put the pressure on in regards to the others who still have not been charged- especially JOE WOLFE- please sign & share Kellys new petition: http://www.change.org/petitions/justice-for-kelly-thomas-2

    I’d like to add my thoughts on why the other officers share blame for Kelly’s inability to breathe.

    If you watch the video as many times as I was subjected to in court, you notice little things each time it’s shown.

    Defense attorneys and the District Attorney were focused on the hands of both the police officers and Kelly.

    I focused on their feet instead.

    My observations were that several officers were bracing their feet against the curb and the nearby squad car while they applied their weight onto Kelly Thomas.

    This greatly skews the formula that one would normally apply when solving the equation for the amount of force applied to Kelly’s chest.

    The formula for Force is…

    Force = Mass multiplied by Acceleration

    or….

    F = MA

    In this case, you would use the combined amount of each officer’s weight to arrive at Mass, or 6 x 250 = 1500 pounds

    If the officers were lying prone, with their hands at their sides, on top of Kelly Thomas, then Mass would simply be multiplied times zero acceleration or 1500 pounds, or

    1500 x 0 = 1500

    However because the officers are bracing their feet against the curb, and also the nearby squad car, they are greatly increasing the acceleration rate of their mass, and thus the amount of force being applied to Kelly’s chest.

    One would also take into account that the acceleration rate would also be influenced by the officers grip of Kelly Thomas, and how much and how long they were able to squeeze him until his chest simply collapsed, and was no longer able to rise and fall to take in oxygen.

    1500 x ?

    1. Good point. As you watch the oinkers pushing down from the cop car you know that the load is being increased by a factor of at least 50%. Maybe more. Add the acceleration of a drop and it goes way, way up.

  30. Fred Alcazar :
    “I can’t figure out if Sharon Quirk Silva is really that stupid?”
    Of course she is.

    … and how many years has she been teaching our children in

    the Fullerton School District?

  31. Sorry to break the bad news, but these officers will not be convicted because the prosecution dropped the ball. This guy died from, in simple terms, being dog piled on. There clearly is other officers that assisted with this arrest technique. They cannot prove that just these two officers were responsible for that. Charge all are charge none.

    Clearly their use of force was excessive as it pertains to striking the face. However, non-compliance is non-compliance. Even passive resistance is just that, resistance. Should his face have looked like that? Of course not. BUT, mind you it’s brutal and ugly, but not the cause of death.

    The Rodney King case dictated this swarm technique. Arrests aren’t pretty, they were not designed to be. I am sorry, but if you can yell, scream, and call for daddy, YOU CAN BREATH.

    Justice is NOT CHARGING these officers with what they did. The lesser 149PC, assault under color of authority is more appropriate. There have been several dozens, if not a hundred deaths from arrest asphyxiation. Remember the hog tie? Those officers were not prosecuted because its what they were taught in the past.

    Fast forward to today, post Rodney King. Now civilians want the dog pile technique. Well guess what, accidental deaths happen. Point is they clearly did things wrong, ie look at his face, however the killing of this individual was not criminal, it was tragic.

    This mans disease was a major contributor to how this thing played out. Second guessing, finger pointing etc started long ago.

    1. Justice is what justice does. In this case, justice is most certainly charging.

      I believe you just volunteered to try to breath under 1500 of dead weight.

      Please stop by city hall on May 15, and we’ll be obliged to help you. I believe the record time is currently six minutes. If you move, at all, we’re going to beat your face in with a taser. If you die, we’ll blame you for being non-compliant.

      Enjoy.

    2. You are so wrong on so many counts that I really don’t have the time to correct all of your mistakes.

      Go back and do your homework. Maybe you start with the right of every one of us to defend ourselves from an imminent threat.

    3. “if you can yell, scream, and call for daddy, YOU CAN BREATH.” – or you’re trying your best not to pass out.

      Kelly yelled that he couldnt breathe and he was sorry almost all the time,
      yet the fat lardos with weapons kept not listening to him, laying on top of him and torturing him.

      “accidents happen” really? an accident is when you twist your ankle by walking too fast and falling in gopher hole. or if you cut your finger with a knife trying to slice onions.
      Accident? Kelly was constantly tasered multiple times, slammed in the head by the butt of of taser, smothered by 6 fat FPD Mooses and for nothing.

      Justice to me is showing them the same fate, but I will settle with locking em up and throwing the key away.

    4. The best think about the DA’s argument is that it doesn’t matter that they dog piled Kelly, or specifically who hit Kelly on any specific part of his body. The individual actions were caused by Ramos. Ramos started it, so he’s going to jail for murder just like a civilian person would. Cicinelli is going to fry because the facial beating was the secondary cause of death and he even brags about smashing Kelly’s face in! So those two points alone make your argument entirely irrelevant. And the judge will instruct the jury as to how to interpret the charges. They’re toast.

    5. “Now civilians want the dog pile technique.”

      Hmm, I don’t remember every voting for anything called “the dog pile technique.” Anybody else remember voting for that?

      What civilians want is for cops to stop beating and killing innocent people. Not “the dog pile technique.”

  32. Fullerton Lover, NO you don’t. Perhaps you need to do your homework…… Indiana, for your information, just made National News for passing a law which your trying to quote as fact.

    For the Record, unless you can’t hear, this gentleman was speaking, you need air to speak. So again, wrong.

    What you clearly lack is reading comprehension. I never said what they did WASN’T WRONG. IN FACT I stated they were just given a poorly thought out charge. If you apply reason and common sense you will see what I stated makes sense. Because as others have stated, these two officers should not be the only ones charged.

    So before you go off half cocked, re-read what I wrote, absorb it, and when you understand it, then opine. If you can’t argue reason and fact then don’t waist your time.

  33. Texan,

    Ramos started it? Really? As I understand it he received a radio call, right? He made contact, he gave orders, regardless if they were lawful or not, they are to be followed. That is what civil court is for. To prevent sidewalk attorneys. You submit. Then you sue their ass.

    Texan, perhaps you haven’t woke up yet to the reality that we live in a Police state. I can care less if you like it or not, it’s fact. So with that being said, the Law favors Police. If you don’t understand that, I can’t help you.

    I cannot, have not, and am not attempting to defend their actions, clearly with what I said, they should be charged with 149PC which is a Felony assault under the color of authority.

    I am concerned with some of these posters ability to read and comprehend what is written. All I merely stated is that the DA screwed up by not charging all the officers who dog piled on this victim. I don’t believe any should have. But if you do, then charge all. Otherwise the charge of 149PC is appropriate, easier to prove, and will guarantee a conviction.

    No expert is going to testify that one officer applied a min of 1500lbs of pressure. Listen to your own argument. Duh. Your scientific hypothesis supports my position. Use your head people.

    1. Firstly, it’s ridiculous to claim that Ramos received a proper call. The call in question was not reported or documented in any standard fashion. I’m sure “the call,” allegedly from the Slidebar, will get plenty of attention during the trial.

      I remember the DA specifically stating that Thomas did not have to submit to an unlawful beating and that he was justified by current laws in running for his life. I think he said this during the press announcement of the initial charges against Ramos and Cicinelli.

      One does not have to submit to an unlawful beating. Please don’t worry about my ability to read or comprehend information. You should be more concerned about your inability to write a thoughtful post while using correct grammar.

      Although some might argue (and many have on this blog) that we live in a police state, we also live in a nation of laws. Perhaps until now the law did favor the police, however, those laws do not grant permission or protection to law enforcement officers who choose to violate and abuse the citizenry. You and your friends have gone too far and now the law will have to be applied in order to correct the imbalance and injustice so clearly prevalent in the Kelly Thomas murder. 6 Fullerton police officers chose to become criminals the night of July 5th, and now there will be consequences for those choices. There’s a first time for everything.

    2. Your moniker suits you so well ‘Ridiculous’.

      Which police department do you work for?
      or
      Which officer’s stick are your lips wrapped around?

      1. Probably the one with veins and wrinkles. Anyways, Ramos and Cicinelli need to be put away. Send those two to the booty house.

  34. Ridiculous is an asshat. If it were as simple as he/she states, these cops would not be charged with murder and Judge Schwarm would dismissed the charges for lack of evidence.

    Ridiculous is like all of the pro-FPD posters on OC Register site in the weeks following the incident that professed the officers would never be charged with a crime and that the tape would exhonerate them

    Well guess what asshat…..here were are today

    Just because you say it dosent make it fact

  35. As of 1965 only California, Delaware, New Hampshire, New Jersey, and Rhode
    Island prohibited resistance of an illegal arrest.119 Four of these states did so by statute,120
    New Jersey did so by court decree.121 By 1976 there were ten states that had eliminated
    the common law right to resist an unlawful arrest: six by statute,122 and four by case law.123
    By 1983 there were thirty states that had eliminated the common law rule: nineteen by
    statute,124 and eleven by case law.125 By 1998 at least thirty-eight states had abrogated the
    right to resist an unlawful arrest: twenty by statute,126 and eighteen by case law.127
    ¶41 Of the twelve states that retain the common law right to resist unlawful arrest, only
    three, Michigan, Wyoming, and Oklahoma, are not located in the South.

  36. Asshat? Wow, that’s original…. That’s the best you can come up with? You clearly have no understanding of the criminal system do you. You have no clue of the minimum threshold to hold someone to answer. It appears name calling not supported by fact is the limit to any resemblance of an intelligent response. I apologize, clearly I misjudged the intelligence level of those that post. My “asshat” will leave you to proving my point for me.. Good Day

  37. Ridiculous,

    You are so fixated on the minutia, you can’t identify the issues.

    The issue at hand is, “was their conduct reasonable and within the law”? The DA says no, thus the charges.

    We are beyond the resisting arrest as justification for the cops actions. Even if his wiggling and squirming while being asphyxiated is deemed resisting (its not), lethal force was not an appropriate response given the circumstances.

    Had you taken notes during the preliminary hearing, you would have noticed that not once did the defense attorney’s move for a dismissal of charges based upon the cops behavior and actions being reasonable and within the law. Instead the focus was on shifting blame to the paramedics and ER doc for standard of care issues as the cause of death

  38. Texan,

    As to what the DA said. You are absolutely correct. The DA did say that at his INITIAL press conference. However, he redacted and clarified his statement.

    You have heard the old adage about assuming? For your information, I am not a Police officer, nor do I live in CA. I am a resident of AZ, which can be verified by my IP address if you should inquire.

    Finally, show me where I, at anytime, said what the officers did was proper. In fact, you continue to support my position, unwillingly or not. You stated those 6 officers chose to become criminals. Well, like I stated, why were only 2 charged?

    So I suspect your anger and frustration at the system is want prevents you from seeing that I am in agreement that they acted in appropriately. Believe me, I mirror your frustration. I simply disagree with a half ass prosecution that opens the door for a bus to drive thru. If you heard the prelim then you should be able to see EXACTLY where the defense is going to go. Unfortunately the DA, in my opinion, gave them a gift in a hand basket.

    For the record, the third time, I have clearly stated they were wrong. I don’t know how else to dumb that down.

  39. Orange,

    My friend, apparently you missed the appeal part. The 995 motion would be a waist of time at this point. I assume you think George Zimmerman is guilty too. He’s on trial isn’t he, even tho the evidence clearly states otherwise.

    I am disappointed that you and so many others can’t apply reason and logic. You make such unsubstantiated and baseless statements. To say deadly force was not justified is simply ignorant. Can you describe the deadly force please. Taser, NOT. Punching, NOT. Kicking, NOT. Knee strikes, NOT. Swarming, or whatever you want to call it, NOT.

    The totality of the strikes, the duration at which they applied them, that is the totality of the situation. These prolonged actions are what amounts to Assault under the Color of Authority in my opinion. The death, days later, is the effect of this unlawful assault. Why was it unlawful? Because likely they will show that other officers, in the similar circumstances, would have been able to control, arrest, and defuse the situation without the long drawn out ass whooping they gave. That is where the case is and will come down to. Did the length of the arrest and applied force to effect the arrest fall within reason. Most say no. Thats for a jury to decide.

    1. Rid,

      Go back to armchair lawering in AZ. We will breeze through the review and the appeal with a trial by October.

      In the meantime I check my mailbox each day praying for a jury summons because the outcome will determined by citizens of Orange County and not an asshat in AZ

    2. I assume you think George Zimmerman is guilty too.

      and I assume you think he’s not guilty. Do you have a point my meat friend?

      And its “waste” not “waist”.

      To say deadly force was not justified is simply ignorant. Can you describe the deadly force please. Taser, NOT. Punching, NOT. Kicking, NOT. Knee strikes, NOT. Swarming, or whatever you want to call it, NOT.

      Funny you left out the part where they crushed him, pounded his face with a taser in addition to the massive loss of blood.

      Seriously, this shit doesnt work anymore. You can’t bullshit people and tell them yellow is red, up is down, left is right, etc anymore.

      Who are you seriously trying to convince here?

  40. Your the exact idiot Orange who doesn’t belong on a jury. Someone who has already decided guilt and want’s revenge. People like you are why a professional jury system of active or retired judges is in order.

    I had no idea so many in Orange County are illiterate. I continue to say that in my opinion, from what I know, the Police acted in appropriately. Again, the jury, who will have all the facts, will decide. Give my your address and if I am wrong, I’ll send you a gift card for a steak dinner….

    1. from what I know, the Police acted in appropriately

      Other than yourself, who are you trying to convince here?

      People like you are why a professional jury system of active or retired judges is in order.

      And people like you will high tail it out of the country like cowards when there is a massive revolt after people lose faith in the justice system.

  41. You are wasting your time on both sides.

    Cops experience these type of fights and struggles daily. They usually end up with an ass kicking and some bruises. It’s part of business. This one was unfortunate. 1 out of 10,000. Not bad odds.

    You will never get the FFFF nuts to open their minds a bit. They don’t get the job or understand anything. Let them think how they do. They are by far the minority. Or Whackjobs as normal citizens refer to them. They are part of the Occupy movement. Unemployed, poor, no jobs, nothing else to do but blame the world for their hardships and drug abuses. Cops deal with mentally Ill everyday as a majority of their contacts. They are the most dangerous people in the world. A cop will never let his guard down with a mentally ill person no matter what. Mentally ill are the most dangerous.

    I hope I get a jury duty ticket too. I’m due and I’m praying for one.

    1. They are part of the Occupy movement.

      Oh brother that is rich.

      Cops experience these type of fights and struggles daily. They usually end up with an ass kicking and some bruises. It’s part of business. This one was unfortunate. 1 out of 10,000. Not bad odds.

      Firefighters and medics are also involved in “struggles” daily but when was the last time you saw a group of medics piling on a guy and beating the shit out of him?

    2. Hey Wackjob,

      Your statement regarding mentally ill people, “They are the most dangerous people in the world. A cop will never let his guard down with a mentally ill person no matter what. Mentally ill are the most dangerous” shows us that you would have taken the same stance as Ramos and Wolfe. YOU, just like Ramos in that video are probably afraid of the mentally ill. There was nothing frightening about Kelly Thomas, unless you and those FPD sissies are afraid of a heavily bearded and scraggly individual.
      They are NOT the most dangerous. The most dangerous are chicken-shit cops who feel the need to break out their batons when approaching a homeless/mentally ill person.

      Kelly Thomas was physically attacked and took the same actions you would if anyone started swinging batons at you; you’d run like hell and fight for your life if caught up to.

      1. I think Ramos got so mad because he could not get a rise out of Kelly even though he worked at it for a long time. He was deliberately inciting Kelly to no avail. They physically attacked him as he started trying to get away. He never initiated violence.

        1. Wow blessusall, I have reviewed the first 16 minutes over and over again and as much as I and anyone can hear the antagonizing chatter from Ramos to Kelly (I read the script too), you are so right that Ramos must have become upset, simply by Kelly’s quietness alone, that he loses his temper right after appearing from behind the squad car after talking w/Wolfe. I wonder if the law firm docs they found in Kelly’s backpack put them in Gestapo mode?
          I’m gonna watch that again right now.

    3. “Mentally ill are the most dangerous.”

      I love how cops somehow think that the public has hired them in order for them to protect themselves. Can we buy you some more weapons, just in case? Why don’t you just wear a bulletproof suit of armor? If you’re so terrified of mentally ill people like Kelly Thomas you need to quit your job.. I hate to say it, but if cops weren’t such cowards you wouldn’t see the pathetic spectacle of a bunch of them all crushing a man to death.

  42. Classic. Your so dumb your happy. Clearly you can’t read and understand that I feel they are guilty or a crime. Does Orange County speak a different language?

    1. Your so dumb your happy.

      Irony overload!

      Clearly you can’t read and understand that I feel they are guilty or a crime.

      Huh?

      Does Orange County speak a different language?

      Do you?

      If English is your native language I would seriously consider suing whoever taught you.

  43. Whackjobs thank you for the heads up. I was just beginning to see that. I am a slow learner, but I always thought O.C. was elite in CA. Perhaps you are right, that only the “no-loads” post here. This is my first time coming across this web page. I appreciate you advising me of such. It’s good to know these individuals are the minority.

    You make a valid argument. Mentally ill individuals behave similarly to those under the influence. Their pain threshold can be significantly higher which dictates a greater amount of force to gain compliance. Bravo. I appreciate your ability to think outside of the box and analyze every possible scenario. A true American. I salute you sir!!!

    1. Ridiculous :
      Mentally ill individuals behave similarly to those under the influence. Their pain threshold can be significantly higher which dictates a greater amount of force to gain compliance.

      YOU’RE TOO LOUD! Also, your ignorance is showing.

      Where’d that M.D. from again?

    2. I get it – we must get compliance at all times, and those drug users and mentally ill folks just don’t comply! I guess in that case you cops should just be able to shoot them on sight.

  44. Anonymous,

    You exemplify Whackjobs position. It was probably when they were given the power to arrest. You are a bright star in your crayon box.

  45. LoL,

    I live in AZ for a reason moron. I left CA for the very reason you speak of. I don’t like the system. I don’t like a Police State. You are right about one thing, I got the hell out of the Socialist Republic of CA. We all have our limits. Try and take my 2nd Amendment away and see what happens.

    1. It will take one word to tell you why the other officers involved are not prosecuted, but that does not mean the DA won’t have the possibility to do that. The word is MOTIVE.

      When Ramos told Kelly that he was going to fuck him up can now be interpreted as I am going to kill you if you look at the outcome. Cicinelli said something after the beating that pretty much can be interpreted that he was doing the same thing as Ramos and not arresting Kelly as the primary goal.

      And non-compliance is non-compliance? I don’t see it that way. I think it is non-compliance vesus defending yourself to survive. With all the tactics out there, I am surprised it took that many officers in that amount of time to handcuff a guy. But that is assuming that handcuffing him was a primary goal. Because if that was the goal with that many officers, I think there should have been a time, a chance if you will, that the officers should have paused and offered a choice of stop struggling and surrender peacefully since they have him pinned to the ground. And a good time to offer that maybe would be when he is saying he is sorry or help. ya think?

      And hey California is not a police state anymore. That was the before the 80’s. This state went to the treehuggers a long time ago. But it is a police county(a county that favors police) here… Maybe after this we can say “was” a police county.

  46. Ok you brilliant individuals who have no clue, I will allow you to continue eating lettuce wraps while on break from your career as a student or “no load” entitlement status.

    1. I will allow you to continue eating lettuce wraps while on break from your career as a student or “no load” entitlement status.

      What the hell are you talking about?

    2. Hey RiDICKulous,

      If someone ever told you, you are a profound speaker, they were being sarcastic.

      Glad you are in AZ…Stay there and roast…

  47. Azhat,

    The unfolding of events over the last 10 months don’t line up with the altered sense of reality that you spout.

    The facts are an Orange County Judge has determined sufficent evidence exists to move forward. The scales have just tipped for the porbability of a conviction.

    We live in a differnt age than the Rodney King event. The dynamic that existed then is not the societal dynamic now.

    Your opinion is meaningless.

  48. Justice.

    CLAY COUNTY, Mo.  — A Missouri police officer is trying to get back to work after finally being cleared of beating up an elderly man.

    Oakview police officer Kimberly Whyley says it has been a long and difficult three years since she was accused of assaulting an elderly driver.

    But now she is breathing a sigh of relief after a jury backed up her assertion that she did nothing wrong.

    “I was overcome with emotion. I was overcome with emotion that a traumatic event was finally coming to end for my family and I,” Whyley said.

    That was how officer Whyley felt after the 30-minute jury deliberation Tuesday night which led to her acquittal.  The verdict was handed down three years after she was pulled off the streets.

    “I had been suspended without pay at the urging of our city attorney,” Whyley said.

    This all stems from a traffic stop back in March of 2009 in Oakview.

    Whyley pulled over 88-year-old Phil Forte for not having his headlights on. A few minutes later, Forte’s car slams into Whyley’s police cruiser.

    She then ordered him out of the car and a struggle ensues.  A passerby helps her subdue Forte who was then taken into custody. Prosecutors later charged Whyley with assault for dragging Forte.

    Whyley’s attorney says the tape of the incident, recorded from her dash camera, may have been have been altered after it was sent to the Missouri Highway Patrol as evidence.

    He points to the speed of the video and the appearance of a daytime soap opera scene which he claims was not there initially.

    “And we had testimony from several officers including the Chief of Police who reviewed that tape many times and it was fine. The tape showed the complete stop from beginning to end,” Whyley’s attorney Bert Godding said.

    Clay County Prosecutor Dan White disputes the tape tampering accusation.

    “It remained the same from the first day it went to the highway patrol to today,” prosecutor Dan White said.

    But the defense says they spoke to jurors who questioned the accuracy of that tape and rendered a not guilty verdict. White says he has no regrets over prosecuting this case.

    “We presented it to a jury. We felt like it was enough a jury disagreed so that’s the way the system works,” White said.

    And Whyley has no regrets on how she handled this traffic stop.

    “I would do nothing differently. I’m still very passionate about helping others and helping the public,” Whyley said.

    Whyley is now working on being reinstated to the force.

    She is also hoping to get the salary for her three years she was suspended.

    Whyley’s attorneys have already begun that process to get her salary reimbursed, during her suspension.

  49. Ridiculous your spot on. Your waist your time dealing with these minions. I may be moving to AZ after reading these clowns..

  50. Amen you beat me to the punch…… I was about to say these fools are so dumb, they can’t figure out Rid agrees with them. It’s clear to me that his thought was the charges are wrong. Rid if I am wrong feel free to correct me, I am with ya!!!!

  51. (ESL) I like that, I totally get that………. yes sir, your “spot on”. It’s true that from what I see, which I clearly said over and over, that I felt they went overboard. However, I know I do not have all the facts, and unlike these OC folks, am not closed minded and would evaluate ALL THE FACTS. But I do still firmly believe that because of the charges, unless the DA can amend the complaint, they by all rights will not be convicted. Just my .02. Believe me I support the Police 100%, we need them, what I don’t support is the us vs. them mind set that some have developed, nor do I like the Federal Government dictating States affairs, nor do I like how the legislature in CA is using legislation to dictate morality.

    My opinion is substantiated by fact, case law, and by the totality of the circumstances. Notice no one has refuted that fact.

    1. I also see both of your points…
      However Ridiculous, to say these OC folks makes you sound like a knee-jerk opinion former or possibly racist, lumping all OC people together.
      What the few said in rebuttal to you above does NOT represent ALL of OC…
      Now why don’t you and ESL get a room… (lol) 🙂

  52. Oh, I forgot one thing, YES, I do think George Zimmerman is innocent. Again, I base that solely on the evidence that I have read and heard from various sources. That too is the majority opinion. The Jury will ultimately decide .

    1. I’m thinking they’re all the same troll? The words and grammatical mistakes are strikingly familiar to other troll posts.

  53. I would like to apologize to Ridiculous. When you said “from what I know, the Police acted in appropriately” I read it as “from what I know, the Police acted appropriately”.

    It was a mistake on my part. I never should have been so aggressive.

  54. Obviously, most of you do not know what actually happened. You were not in the court room when the video was played in slow motion and it showed Kelly Thomas grabbing the taser out of the officer’s hand. You were also NOT in the court room when the paramedic contradicted the doctor who also contradicted the coroner. None of their testimonies matched excpet for what T-rack coached them into saying. Still there was evidence that T-rack met with each of them and discussed what the cause of death should be. You do not die by a broken nose and a bruise on your arm. Give me a break. How idiotic does the DA think we are. Some of us think for ourselves. We know the judge worked for him before and that he “hand-picked” Judge Schwarm. Schwarm knew what he was going to rule no matter what eveidence was presented. Stop being so naive.

    1. Concerned Californian :
      Bad mouth a marine and you get your Jaw broken.
      http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.
      This article doesn’t tell you what happened to some of the gang bangers. a few ended up in the hospital too. My sister took the call when she was working dispatch.

      Concerned Californian :
      Bad mouth a marine and you get your Jaw broken.
      http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.
      This article doesn’t tell you what happened to some of the gang bangers. a few ended up in the hospital too. My sister took the call when she was working dispatch.
      Steve brown had been to my house a few times. Great guy until he drank alcohol. Now he’s a cop in Texas. Those guys were badasses, but generally good guys.
      I found out they were drinking and someone gave someone the stink eye, then an argument broke out, and I was told it went like this:
      “Hey we fought for this country, if you don’t like then go back to Mexico”
      12 gang bangers came back, then the fight broke out. 4 of these guys survived fighting 3 to 1 odds and fucked up some of the gang bangers. the news shut down the story because the marines were drunk that night and had a hand in the situation.
      Later on. it took some time before they were able to catch 2 or 3 of the attackers, so they could be put away with the 3 strikes your out law.
      I am surrounded by Marine corps, the Marines I know always watch my back and I like having them around, are good company, hard workers, but if there is a problem with sadist groups sticking together out of the Corps, like the FPD, Then that shit has to be shut down.

      I believe the Harpoon’s point was that our right to free speech is constitutional. I don’t recall the Marines waging a war to protect our free speech recently. Protecting oil and defense contracts, yes. Free speech, no.

      1. I should of said “Bad mouth a marine while he’s drinking at a bar and you get your Jaw broken.”

  55. Jane H :
    They are running scared.

    Yes, they use to have the local Newspapers and the News Media on their side, now they are in so deep, they had to delay the pretrial about a week after the 20 year Rodney King anniv.

    Now the mainstream media arent helping them even being as pro Public Union as they are.

    I know many neighbors in Fullerton are retired or work for the Feds.

    1. I do not remeber any newspapers being on the officers side from day one. Everyone just believed all the rumors spun by the John and Ken show. They had never seen the video and now they’re telling us to only watch the video no more than twice because… you might actually see Kelly fighting back…what is the reason? The wool over your eyes is about to be removed. Unfortunately, Kelly’s past will play a big role in the upcoming trial and no stone will be left unturned. Also the DA failed to mention on the court record that he was a scizophrenic.

      Schizophrenia is a group of severe brain disorders in which people interpret reality abnormally. Schizophrenia may result in some combination of hallucinations, delusions and disordered thinking and behavior. The ability of people with schizophrenia to function normally and to care for themselves tends to deteriorate over time.

      Contrary to some popular belief, schizophrenia isn’t split personality or multiple personality. The word “schizophrenia” does mean “split mind,” but it refers to a disruption of the usual balance of emotions and thinking.

      Schizophrenia is a chronic condition, requiring lifelong treatment.

      So Kelly was not normal mind state like the DA wants you to believe. He did not interpret situations like most of us would. I feel bad he was not medicated and living on the streets.

      1. Apparently I’m so delusional that I have to spin reality so it fits my narrow minded ideology.

        If you watch the video in slow motion you will see Kelly Thomas pull out a hatchet and swing it at officer Ramos. Wolfe fearing for his partners life took out his baton instead of his service weapon and quickly knocked the hatchet from Mr Thomas right hand.

        Mr Thomas then tried to run but turned around and grabbed Officer Ramos service weapon and this is when they were literally in the fight of their lives.

        I have to agree that the audio doesn’t sound good but once you look at the facts I just laid out you will see that they had no choice but to fight. They have lives to live and families to take care of, they cannot put their lives at risk because its not politically correct.

        The end is unfortunate for all involved but if you consider Mr. Thomas’s actions he is lucky all of the officers involved showed great restraint and didn’t fire one shot despite his actions.

        Any other officer probably would have shot Kelly the moment he pulled out the hatchet.

  56. Same troll many names…..go spend some time with your dad son, he’s going to be going away for a long, long, time.

  57. Judicial Review: a court’s authority to examine an executive or legislative act and to invalidate that act if it is contrary to constitutional principles.

    The coroner’s testimony will be discredited.
    “Again…I say, it’s the whole body, all the injuries…”

    like a broken nose and arm bruise cause death

    “I didn’t know the cause of death till I saw the video…”

    Really?

    The doctor’s testimony will be exposed.

    “If you can talk, you are still breathing…”

    Okay, well I heard yelling and screaming throughout the video.

    The paramedic’s testimony will be implausible.

    “He was agonal breathing.”

    ABC’s of paramedics are airway, breathing, circulation are taught as the number one concern of paramedics when preforming life-saving techniques. The throat collar wouldn’t have been put on Kelly if he wasn’t breathing. The parmedic knew that.

    Hello!

  58. So that’s why it took the paramedics 8 min to assist with his breathing because they were preparing the bag, that would assist Kelly to get oxygen.

    This is all in the court records to be available soon.

    Check it out for yourself unless you want to go on believing coerced witnesses.

    Coercion (pronounced /koʊˈɜrʃən/) is the practice of forcing another party to behave in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats, intimidation or some other form of pressure or force. Such actions are used as leverage, to force the victim to act in the desired way.

  59. Hey Travis, I just called and left a message. What are you afraid of? You should let me post my opinion too. This blog is boring when everyone just agrees with each other. Let my posts happen. You’ll get more bloggers.

  60. We can’t be having weird city council people using police departments as a means to a hidden agenda like in Fullerton or anywhere else. Somehow this needs to be separated. It’s consolidation of power and lopsidedly dangerous.

  61. Look at this and tell me it doesn’t apply to whats happening in the Fullerton city council.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalisation_(sociology)

    “Bauman attempted to give an account of the different approaches modern society adopts toward the stranger. He argued that, on the one hand, in a consumer-oriented economy the strange and the unfamiliar is always enticing; in different styles of food, different fashions and in tourism it is possible to experience the allure of what is unfamiliar. Yet this strange-ness also has a more negative side. The stranger, because he cannot be controlled and ordered, is always the object of fear; he is the potential mugger, the person outside of society’s borders who is constantly threatening. Bauman’s most famous book, Modernity and the Holocaust, is an attempt to give a full account of the dangers of these kinds of fears. “

    1. Damn, Zygmunt Bauman cited on FFFF! This town is just too smart for such a dumb city council, and that’s a fact.

  62. This looks like an explination of whats happening, everywhere

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_cage

    “The care for external goods should only lie on the shoulders of the saint, like a light cloak, which can be thrown aside at any moment.’ But fate decreed that the cloak should become an iron cage.”

    Iron cage of bureaucracy

    Because of these aforementioned reasons, there will be an evolution of an iron cage, which will be a technically ordered, rigid, dehumanized society.[5] The iron cage is the one set of rules and laws that we are all subjected and must adhere to.[16] Bureaucracy puts us in an iron cage, which limits individual human freedom and potential instead of a “technological utopia” that should set us free.[6][17] It is the way of the institution, where we do not have a choice anymore.[18] Once capitalism came about, it was like a machine that you were being pulled into without an alternative option;[19] currently, whether we agree or disagree, if you want to survive you need to have a job and you need to make money.

    Laws of bureaucracies:[20]
    1.The official is subject to authority only with respect to their official obligation
    2.Organized in a clearly defined hierarchy of offices
    3.Each office has a clearly defined sphere of competence
    4.The official has a free contractual relationship; free selection
    5.Officials are selected through technical qualification
    6.The official is paid by fixed salaries
    7.The office is the primary occupation of the official
    8.Promotion is based on an achievement which is granted by the judgment of superiors
    9.The official is subject to strict and systematic discipline within the office

  63. Ron Jeremy :
    I love the 70′s porn star look Ron is going for these days.
    Who is the hot tweaker blond with huge tits I always see standing behind Ron? She always makes sure to get in the camera shot when Ron’s getting interviewed and she’s usually sporting a tank top to show off her cans better. Someone posted a pic of her with a couple other skanks posing in front of an anti-recall sign they stole out of someone’s front yard.

    I see you know your porn stars.

    Looks like we have another sadist on the blog.

  64. “Coroners testimony will be discredited”…..
    “The Dr’s. testimony will be exposed”…..
    “Paramedics testimony will be implausible”…..

    Stupid is a bad way to go through life!

  65. Jane H :They are running scared.

    They are indeed! I can almost see “sissy” curled up in a ball crying his eyes out. I mean his eye, and “pie face” turning down 5ths at the dinner table.

  66. Ex-chief asks patience in Kelly Thomas case

    By DOUG IRVING, LOU PONSI, LARRY WELBORN and EUGENE W. FIELDS / THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

    “Fullerton Councilman Pat McKinley said he expects much more evidence to come out at trial than the grainy surveillance video that was the centerpiece of this week’s hearings. McKinley was Fullerton’s police chief for 16 years and hired both Ramos and Cicinelli.

    http://www.ocregister.com/news/-353596–.html

    “Nothing is the same at the end as it is in the beginning,” said McKinley, reached by phone while on vacation. “You have to have patience and let the wheels of justice turn.”

    1. Funny, that’s what Ms. Mayor Go-Along Quirk said to the newpapers yesterday. ‘Let the justice system take it’s course.”

      What they’re both saying is please don’t come to our council meetings and tell us how bad our council majority and PD handled this situation.

      1. “What they’re both saying is please don’t come to our council meetings and tell us how bad our council majority and PD handled this situation.”

        Yep, and I’ll bet they are not looking forward to the next council meeting. I wonder if Paddy will show his face.

        1. Did you see those swat uniforms at the crazy FPD shooting death this morning? Scary. Run. It’s out of control. I’m moving to Mexico.

  67. Reality Is :I like that name too.

    WANTED; For the MURDER of Kelly Thomas

    Joe wolfe
    jay cicinelli
    manny ramos
    kevin craig
    james blatney
    kenton hampton

    Never forgrt these names.Treat them like the social outKasts they are, they deserve to be shunned. They earned it.

  68. Ecclesiastes 8:11 “When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, the hearts of the people are filled with schemes to do wrong.”

  69. Here’s a run down as I see it.

    To say things such as these fists are about to fuck you up is called stating consequence. A consequence to you not following a lawful/unlawful order to submit to arrest. It’s both legally justified and encouraged by the latest use of force training. Even tho the law does not require it, for litigation purposes, some departments are encouraging officers use commands of orders and statement of action if compliance isn’t gained. Example, either produce identification or your getting handcuffed. or Drop your fists or your getting tased or the baton. or Drop the weapon or I am going to shoot you…… That sounds all nice and all but in the real world, with adrenaline and situational issues, not to mention human nature it sounds more like this, Give me your identification or your ass is going to jail. or I suggest you cuff up or I am going to tazz your ass or beat your ass with this ASP. or Drop the weapon or I will blow your ass away!!!!

    Clearly not professional, sounds horrible to individuals such as yourself who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about because they have never been in those kinds of situations.

    This officer gave this individual an order. To further gain compliance he said what he did. Would I? Probably not. Would another officer? Obviously. The choice of words does not change the tactic, instead it makes it harder to defend. The most glaring issue the DA tries to raise is clearly false. If I am scared to death that I am about to get my ass beat by a much larger person, I submit to you and anyone else with common sense, I surely won’t encourage the ass whooping by stating my defiance to a lawful order by saying, “get to swinging”. Sorry, if you think that is NOT the thing to do, then your beyond help anyways.

    As to your next excuse, officers do not have the time, forethought, nor complete medical history of every citizen they contact to know whether or not this guy just challenged me to a fight or that he’s nuts. Either way, at the moment they were in, it was IRRELEVANT. Nuts or not he was going to jail. He was going to go to jail agreed? Yes he was. Well guess what, crazy or not you get handcuffed.

    It is for reasons similar to this that every officer needs to be consistent in his/her dealings with the public in arrest situations. Handcuff everybody. Put everybody in the back seat. Always use your audio recorders. etc etc. This prevents exposure in civil lawsuits by monday night quarter backs like what we have here.

    1. What a load of horse shit. The “officer” was a fat tub of guts who illegally threatened the victim, then couldn’t properly restrain him after he provoked the beat down.

      Citizens have the right to defend themselves from illegal assault even by fat lazy pigs. You cops hate the very concept, but even the DA admitted the legality of it.

    2. The Truth,

      It appears to me that your premise is that Kelly KNEW what Ramos was going to say before Ramos had even said it………is that the case?

      Listen to the tape AGAIN.
      Don’t you think the ORDER of what happened and who KNEW what is critical?

      I thought that Kelly responded with the “start swinging” , (DEFIANT, as you put it) comment IMMEDIATElY after Ramos states (what his fists are going to do) and BEFORE the : “if you don’t…… ”
      (consequence) is stated?

      HOW is it DEFIANT if the consequence had not been verbally spoken before Kelly responded?

      Do you see body language that looks defiant in the video?

  70. Just because a cop stops you, doesn’t give them any right to know your name or what you are doing. The must tell you what it is they’re suspicious of. He asked Kelly if he had been trying to open car doors. Kelly said no. Kelly should have told Wolfe that they could not rifle through his backpack. They had NOTHING to detain him on and he should have walked free.

    1. Great point!

      Please remember to say NO! if you are ever asked by a law

      enforcement officer…

      A) Do you know why I pulled you over?

      B) Can I search your person or your personal property.

      Anything you say or do can and WILL be used against you.

      Not maybe used against you….WILL be used AGAINST you.

      NOT for you…

      AGAINST you.

    2. You are correct except the animal cops knew this man was mentally ill and had a good time executing him while the boys back at the cop bunker watched in real time on live camera.
      NOBODY INTERVENED. ALL THE CORRUPT COPS WHO WATCHED THIS NEED TO BE FIRED AND LOSE THEIR PENSIONS BEFORE THE CROOKS EXIT ON DISABILITY PENSIONS.

  71. All these officer’s should be in prison for the rest of their of lives! how can they do this to another person – SHAME ON ALL YOU………..

    Joe wolfe
    jay cicinelli
    manny ramos
    kevin craig
    james blatney
    kenton hampton

  72. Really?

    Learn how to read. Your wrong. Several posts above you a quote from the Legal Source guide is posted for your knowledge.

    BeenAskingAround,

    Wrong. If a cop stops you he must have a lawful reason. That’s called a detention. When detained they can ask and you shall provide. Deal with it. This case because of the circs of the call, he was lawfully detained. Facts not in dispute. You too need to learn how to read or do some homework.

    Again this case and your arguments are and continue to prove why the Officers will be found not guilty. Sorry. Prepare now for it. The charges don’t establish what happened here. That’s the danger in charging what the Public wants and not what can be proven.

    What happened, which is clearly argued over and over again, which further proves my point, that more than just these 2 officers had a part in the consequences correct? That argument alone, if you apply reason and common sense, is going to be the defenses case. It’s undisputed what the coroner SAID is the cause of death. Going with that, these 2 officers and those 2 officers alone didn’t do it.

    So pull your head out and realize that I am not saying what happened isn’t wrong, what I am saying to you is simple. The DA, either by design or incompetence, gave the defense a gift by not charging everybody at that scene, shown in the video, laying on this guy. You cannot selectively enforce the law against one and not the other.

    If you can’t figure that out, seriously, you can’t be helped. If your as passionate as you think you are, you would be demanding the DA file the appropriate case, against ALL the officers, with the appropriate charges. PERIOD……otherwise your going to allow this case to go to trial and they will get off. Hardly the justice your seeking. Your inaction and inept ability to understand how the law, no matter how fuk’d up it is, works is why you can’t see what the outcome will be.

    1. R squared

      How much of the evidence or oral arguments by the various defense and district attorneys did you actually see and hear admitted into evidence this week in court?

    2. R2 and R – Sound like that psycho, Patrick Omalley-different names arent going to help you, neither is putting your name in the website bar instead of the email bar

      1. LOL 🙂

        I wish those were all Reality Is. . I’ll take credit for being all the trolls on here though. Might make me feel better.

        🙂

        Ask admin, he knows those aren’t Reality Is. He knows my ISP very well because he deletes them the second I post. I just watch now. From afar and at times very very close. Tony, very very close. Get it?

        🙂

  73. http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/111889.html

    This woman was blinded in both eyes by an officer when she resisted having handcuffs put on her…he fired a JPX weapon 10 inches from her face. This is what the officer was charged with:

    Quote: “Hernandez was taken to the hospital and never charged. Following an investigation by the Riverside County Sherriff’s office, a grand jury indicted Clark on four felony charges: Assault under color of authority, assault with a less lethal weapon, use of force causing severe bodily injury, and assault with force likely to cause severe bodily injury. Free on $50,000 bail, Clark faces up to 20 years in prison. At present, the officer — who is chairman of the local police union — was placed on administrative leave, which is to say that he was given a paid vacation.”

    1. Apparently, the character traits listed below are required in order to be considered for hiring, or promotion, at FPD:

      team player, (willing to obey the thin blue line of silence at all times)
      self-serving, (much more concerned about self protection than about protection of ALL citizens)

      able to put on a “good face to the public”
      brutal, mean, angry
      arrogant
      bully, abuser, violent
      overweight
      lazy
      sadistic
      sociopath, (no conscience)
      willing to lie under oath
      willing to tamper with evidence
      willing to plant, manipulate, or destroy evidence
      dishonest, thief, liar
      believes they are “above the law”
      morally bankrupt
      sexual pervert, predator
      merciless, heartless

      can ignore a human being when he begs for mercy while he is completely incapacitated, severely injured, and being repeatedly tased, kicked, beaten and tortured by at least six officers

      can ignore the screams of a man when he is begging for his life, begging for his dad and for God to help him, and then also continue to ignore that same man when he is UNCONSCIOUS and he is STILL being beaten and tasered to death.

  74. Here is CA code description of murder and manslaughter and the code for justifiable

    PENAL CODE
    SECTION 187-199

    187. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, with malice aforethought.

    188. Such malice may be express or implied. It is express when there is manifested a deliberate intention unlawfully to take away the life of a fellow creature. It is implied, when no considerable provocation appears, or when the circumstances attending the killing
    show an abandoned and malignant heart.
    When it is shown that the killing resulted from the intentional doing of an act with express or implied malice as defined above, no
    other mental state need be shown to establish the mental state of malice aforethought. Neither an awareness of the obligation to act
    within the general body of laws regulating society nor acting despite such awareness is included within the definition of malice.

    192. Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice. It is of three kinds:
    (a) Voluntary–upon a sudden quarrel or heat of passion.
    (b) Involuntary–in the commission of an unlawful act, not
    amounting to felony; or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death, in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection.
    (c) Vehicular

    196. Homicide is justifiable when committed by public officers and
    those acting by their command in their aid and assistance, either–
    1. In obedience to any judgment of a competent Court; or,
    2. When necessarily committed in overcoming actual resistance to
    the execution of some legal process, or in the discharge of any other legal duty;
    3. When necessarily committed in retaking felons who have been rescued or have escaped, or when necessarily committed in arresting
    persons charged with felony, and who are fleeing from justice or resisting such arrest.
    (no wonder cops like to dramatically yell so their DAR picks it up- “stop resisting, stop resisting” so they have a recording of their voices giving “commands” for court to hear which will legally save their murdering, lying butts)

  75. May 11, 2012

    Beaumont, California Woman Blinded for ‘Contempt of Cop’

    Posted by William Grigg on May 11, 2012 12:05 PM

    Thanks to police officer Enoch Clark, Beaumont, California resident Monique Hernandez will never see her ten-year-old daughter again.

    On February 21, Clark conducted a traffic stop involving Hernandez, who was suspected of drunk driving. When Clark attempted to handcuff her, Hernandez resisted. The officer responded by using a JPX device — a weapon that uses a gunpowder charge to fire a stream of pepper spray at roughly 400 miles an hour.

    The JPX weapon is designed for use at a distance of 6 to 15 feet, and training presentations depict it being deployed against aggressive, armed assailants. Promotional literature for the JPX weapon — which isn’t categorized as a firearm, because it doesn’t fire a projectile — boasts of “devastating stopping power.” The payload of weaponized OC spray is propelled over the prescribed distance at less than three one-hundredths of a second, making it “too fast to avoid…. The effect is immediate; there is no chance to resist.”

    Clark’s attorney insists that the officer’s attack was justified in order “to gain compliance and in defense of his person.” The JPX is designed to incapacitate an aggressor at a distance. Clark — who was armed and wearing body armor — fired it into Hernandez’s temple from a distance of roughly ten inches, blowing apart her right eye and leaving the left with severe, irreparable damage.

    Anyone who had undergone rudimentary training with the JPX would understand that the weapon should not be fired directly into the head or face of a non-violent suspect. Clark’s actions suggest that his intention was not to gain “compliance,” but rather to inflict summary street punishment for “contempt of cop.”

    Hernandez was taken to the hospital and never charged. Following an investigation by the Riverside County Sherriff’s office, a grand jury indicted Clark on four felony charges: Assault under color of authority, assault with a less lethal weapon, use of force causing severe bodily injury, and assault with force likely to cause severe bodily injury. Free on $50,000 bail, Clark faces up to 20 years in prison. At present, the officer — who is chairman of the local police union — was placed on administrative leave, which is to say that he was given a paid vacation.

    Interestingly, the law firm representing Clark in his criminal trial is involving in a union lawsuit against Beaumont Police Chief Frank Coe, claiming that the chief retaliated against critics on in the department by denying them promotions, thereby leaving several positions vacant.

    Tragically, the blinding of Monique Hernandez arose out of a domestic disturbance that led to a 911 call. Two officers responded to the call, one of whom reportedly witnessed the assault while speaking with Hernandez’s family.

    It should be remembered that any time someone calls for police “assistance,” he’s inviting the intervention of people who consider themselves licensed to inflict potentially lethal violence as punishment for non-compliance. It should be assumed that if the police get involved, somebody is going to be needlessly injured or killed.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/111889.html

      1. Short and to the point….they are sociopathic bullies, REALLY stupid, fat cowards, with God complexes. They are everywhere, they are wearing badges and they are armed to the teeth. POBAR, chiefs who cover for them, a D.A. who doesn’t charge all of them appropriately for their crimes, and “old friends” on the city council makes them wrongly feel invincible and justified in their brutality and murder.

        I am MUCH, MUCH more afraid to ever ask LE for help, or to ever “bump” into LE, or to be pulled over by them, than I am afraid of any homeless person, any mentally ill person, or any gang banger type criminal.

        I don’t want someone to die because I call an officer to investigate someone/something, or to report a disturbance, etc. If the cops even imagine, or claim, that they perhaps might have seen a weapon, a bat, a dumbbell, a garden hose nozzle, stick/tree branch, etc. (almost anything will do), the cops WILL shoot first, and then PERHAPS ask questions later. More than likely, they won’t ask questions later since you’ll be dead.

        If they do ask you questions, they won’t listen to your answer, and they will torment you with games, like they did with Kelly, until they decide to Taser, crush and beat you to death, or blind you, or heaven only knows what else. And, even if you ask for mercy, it won’t stop them from beating you to death. Afterwards, they’ll just watch any videos 400 times and then re-write their reports and coordinate their various stories with each other. (Tampering with evidence).

        I never, ever used to feel that way before; I always had great respect and appreciation for law enforcement. However, perhaps the morals, ethics and the mission of L.E. has changed dramatically over the past decades? OR, perhaps my eyes have just recently been opened to the truth of how much evil really goes on – right under our own noses.

        In any case; it’s so wrong and terrifying that we can’t trust the officers that WE PAY to serve and protect us!!

        Thank you Kelly.
        And, may God bless each and every one of us,- we’re going to need it.

  76. I have question about the Kelly Thomas murder that maybe
    someone can explain to me like i am a five year old
    If five other people and myself beat and stomped a Fullerton
    cop to death would we not all be indited on first degree murder
    charges?

    1. Yes, you would. Probably with gang enhancements (you must be a member of something, right?).

      There’s laws for us and almost no laws for them. And that’s just the way it is.

    2. Yes you would if you and five others stomped on someone, but that is not what happened here. You see you have to respect the police and do as they say or you will end up like Kelly Thomas. He fought with the police and did not listen. So when you grow up listen to the police. Maybe you can be a police officer yourself one day. Wouldnt that be nice?

  77. John Doe :
    You see you have to respect the police and do as they say or you will end up like Kelly Thomas.

    I think that sums it up quite well. Respect is earned, not given.

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