Snouts of Fury: Aardvark Pays Fullerton a Visit!

At Saturday’s protest of the hapless Fullerton Police Department, some perceptive folks espied a character who immediately drew suspicion, sore thumb-like, as some sort of plant. Of course they challenged this individual, who, thoughtfully provided a business card.

An aardvark with a business card!

Craig Fury. “Law Enforcement Territory manager.” Aardvark Tactical.

FYI, an aardvark is a homely creature that roots through the dirt for bugs which seems aptly descriptive; the use of the name could also be a tactic just to get to the front of the phone book.

Our Friends discreetly followed Mr. Fury for several blocks down Commonwealth Avenue before he doubled back and wandered into – the FPD HQ! So what gives? Did the cops employ this clown to spy on peaceful protesters? If not why was he there?

Yes, we carry the full line of Pat McPension gear...

I note that on their website that Aardvark “featured partners” include Safariland, the company that McKinley worked with (on the taxpayers dime) developing his special vest that was later purchased by the Fullerton Police Department. Aardvark is an “authorized dealer” of Safariland equipment. Did McKinley and the anti-recall drones employ this guy to take pictures of scary members of Kelly’s Army? If not why was he there, and why the loop-de loop?

Aardvark explains himself

 

Aardvark pretends to leave
Aardvark sneaks back into the station

I think somebody in authority (now who would that be?) needs to inform the police that the FPD facility is owned by the taxpayers (us) and that they had better stay out of politics on public time (ours) and in a publicly owned facility (ours).

 

267 Replies to “Snouts of Fury: Aardvark Pays Fullerton a Visit!”

    1. He was probably just making a sales call trying to drum up more business for his sales quota. It could also be something more sinister. We will know soon enough. City governments are gearing up for civil unrest all over the country due to the impending economic crisis and any number of different scenarios that may play out. Once these officers are prosecuted we still have huge problems as a people. Tough times are coming.

  1. A quote from the Aardvark website: “To date, ATI has fielded thousands of sets of riot control and force protection equipment ranging from small ad hoc groupings of gear to large multiple company sized capability sets”

    Every time I think the PR machine at FPD is rounding the corner and rebounding from an all time low I find they have plenty of shovels left to dig the hole deeper.

    Nothing tells the citizens the police are there to protect them like a new set of riot gear. Are we going to buy some new water cannons from Chief Bull Connor as well?

    What the hell is going on around here? This is like a bad dream.

    1. Yep! Well look here, another carpetbagger making his way into California. Go Home!

      This bottom feeder looks kind of short.

      It’s fascinating to see weird people trying to capitalize on the recession. It almost parallels televangelism

      What was that book 20 years ago? Well looks like junior got a hold of it in high school out there in Arizona, and decided to do a little business here in Fullerton.

  2. Will the people of Fullerton be paying for this new riot gear? You are right Hollis, everytime I think that it can’t get any worse, IT DOES!!!!!!!!!

  3. You guys are awesome, these pathetic attempts to disrupt the support and supporters of “Justice for Kelly” keep getting exposed and or sidestepped in a non-violent manner. Kelly would be proud!

  4. Does anyone in the FPD have any grey matter at all, or do they just sit around now and try to think these things up, since they can’t murder, rape, and beat down the city anymore? Drove around the PD building on Sunday, there sure are alot of squad cars parked in the back these days.

    1. By the way, televangelism has been notorious for bilking old folks out of their social security checks back east.

      It seems we have these types still trying to sell their garbage on the California market.
      We know they can’t sell that junk to people where they came from.

      Anyone who wares white pants on a Saturday afternoon is not from around here. No wonder he was pointed out.

      I bet he’s mad at the world because he was short changed in the height department, now he’s trying to push products that hurt the general population.
      Bet he has a hard time getting dates too.

    1. “With his recent marriage, however, Fury began to look for a more stable career and found one with Aardvark Tactical as a Territory Sales Manager in March 2010.”

      There’s always a stable career selling unnecessary crap to the cops. Witness McPension’s vest.

    2. Theres thousands of these guys roaming around the country scamming local municipalities out of millions of dollars.

      Just google “Montana AG American Police Force”.

      They typically sell “consultation and security services” and trust me, when they see a guy like Dick Jones they see $$$.

      1. 20 years ago I met a russian selling leather goods from Tiajuana to the holly wood PD.

        What were those soldiers called after the civil war?

        Like Jesse James, Bushwackers? Carpetbaggers?

    3. I don’t think his name is really Craig Fury.

      Wish someone could do some digging into this guy.

      Most of the scammers have multiple names and MULTIPLE felony convictions.

  5. You know, the more I think about it, the more I couldn’t care less if I am photographed or monitored. I pay my tax, and haven’t committed a crime and am proud to stand side-by-side with my “brothers and sisters” in this JUST cause. I am grateful to be able to help in whatever small way I can. “Justice for Kelly”

  6. isn’t it funny a sales rep would be out on a sat??

    pretty obvious he was accessing the citys needs for product..lol

    geesh, how much did this guy cost??

  7. Get ready for crowd control around the clock. Do you really think these animals are going anywhere. The bosses already know the D A has thrown out all false charges. The city bosses own the D A. GOD HELP YOU PEOPLE.

    1. Hey! Stop scaring the little old ladies into voting for the recall! Think about what you are saying. We don’t want a recall.

  8. He’s a VENDOR/Salesman, not a FPD employee. He may have been trying to gauge the attitude and approach of the group, so he could use that as a sales tactic.

    It IS a public event open to everone – right?

    1. No, he’s one of the thousands of conmen selling millions of dollars with of vaporware to gullible cities and counties.

  9. He’s a VENDOR/Salesman, not a FPD employee. He may have been trying to gauge the attitude and approach of the group, so he could use that as a sales tactic.

    It IS a public event open to everone – right?

    1. See! what did i tell you, these guys are coming in from Arizona! I heard their economy is real bad right now. no wonder we are seeing more of them. GO HOME!. YOU PROFITS OF DOOM!

    2. and you know that how?

      It was a rally for a man who was murdered not a flea market to sell shit or conduct sales buisness-if he grabbed a sign or just sat and watched that would be one thing but he wasnt doing that

  10. this really proves how out of touch the city council is with the community..

    they really don’t get the anger..
    and really believe this is a mob, ready to explode, with no respect or love for their city..

    council.. just get off your high horse, talk to the community, admit your wrongs, and work on a solution to the problems!!

    you’ve waited too long for all of that now..
    you brought all this on yourselves..

  11. I captured this entire confrontation on video. along with some key individuals with Kelly’s Army, about six or seven of us walked up to him and questioned him. He was pretty forthcoming considering our surprise approach and heavy interrogation. This guy is an extremely fine salesman I’m sure, but still somewhat suspicious sitting there solo snapping photos with his cell phone. Like I said at the beginning of this post, I have this on my Sony Handicam but I can’t figure out how to post on youtube or send to FFFF. I told Tony Bushala about it when I was done videoing, but he didn’t say much. Let me know Admin if u could copy this from my cassette andpost on your blog.

    1. Why would he need to take pictures when the city had at least 2 dome cameras watching the event, 2 uniform officers and several undercover officers?

      The guy is a scam artist. He wanted to be seen which is why he wore the shirt and handed out the cards.

  12. Good detective work. These type of contract relationships have been going on with the FBI at least back to the 1960’s and have exploded since 9/11/2001. They have also been aided by thousands of top cops being able to retire with good pensions in their early 50’s.

    There is nothing inherently wrong with what Craig Fury is doing, as long as his aim is to protect your rights and your safety, not violate them. He was honest enough to identify himself. But keep watch.

    This business about McKinney having interest in the equipment sold to the City of Fullerton and association with Aardvark is interesting. He needs to be very careful about conflict of interest resolution. Remember it was conflicts between public and private business that brought Assistant OC Sheriff George Jaramillo down and turned him into an informant against Sheriff Mike Carona.

    1. Maybe McKinney’s possible conflicts of interest are something that should be investigated as part of the recall?

      1. Absolutely. When he was Chief he spent his time on that dumb-ass vest when he should have been making sure his cops were honest, decent, and qualified.

        Yes McKinley, I want to overturn last year’s election. If the people of Fullerton knew your real record you would have lost by three thousand votes.

        1. Now it’s going to be a matter of can this group convince the voters that they voted wrong. Will take work and some money, but could probably be done. The BS and lies need to be kept at a minimum though, and strictly facts and past record. If lies keep being proven untrue, the recall will lose credibility quickly.

    2. My guess is this is another statement to rile people up again. If McKinley has interest in a company that is doing business in the City, that’s a no no and he would know that as well. Prove that and you will have no problem getting him out or maybe even charged with something if its a big dollar contract.

      1. I am certainly not trying to rile people up, “Reality Is”. By the way, I met with George Jaramillo and Don Haidl in George’s office in 1999 after the OC Register proctological exam of Haidl. I was trying to convince them not to pursue the war they were proposing to wage against Santa Ana Police Chief Paul Walters.

        I became a fan of the Carona administration for a number of years, and was disappointed when they fell apart under their own weight.

        I only raised the issue of conflicts of interest. I would hope that McKinney would have control of this issue. But Jaramillo lost control, even with the expert advice of Don Haidl–or maybe because of the advice of Don Haidl.

        The seems to be quite a lot that McKinney is not in control of these days. But let us not speak from silence, let McKinney step up and take control publically and in the media. Let him show us the leader he is, not simply hide behind what an attorney who is subordinate to him dictates that he should do.

        I appreciate you input and you do not have to answer the following two questions. You know who I am. Who are you? What is your aim?

  13. So what if they sent a spy. What are the protesters doing that is not legal? What kind of information could a spy possibly obtain from anyone in the protest? I don’t think anyone at the protest is hiding anything.

    1. Intelligence information. Videoing and picturing everyone there could be used later for identification purposes. Just as your recording could be used later for various purposes.

      1. Why the need for identification purposes could HE possibly need?

        Still I can’t really think of any wrong/bad/nefarious reason behind what he was doing. I don’t think I’m even slightly bothered by this guy being there.

      2. An off-topic question. You seem to be quite bright. Why are you on the side of the bad guys here? (And by “here” I don’t mean this particular story; I mean on the Kelly case in general). I don’t often (if ever) find someone with whom I agree often on factual analysis and knowledge of the law, but with whom I then come to 180 degree opposite conclusions.

        Also, what’s your take on all the speculation about what the DA is or is not going to do? I’m guessing, at most, misdemeanors. I’m not even betting on manslaughter. Your thoughts?

        1. I’m not sure if you are talking to me. Just in case, I’ll answer. If not, sorry.

          I’m not on the side of the bad guys here. I never have been. I’ve been on the side of relying on facts to make decisions and not relying on people spouting information and lies that are just done to agitate people or make them believe wrong information.

          Yes, I know someone was killed. I know it involved the cops. I also know how it all went down. I’ve always said I think charges will be brought on the people that did wrong. I don’t think all 6 cops did wrong.

          I honestly think the DA is doing a good job, and he’s not going to rush just because people tell him too. He will have everything laid out perfectly and ready to proceed when he makes his announcement. At that point, the cops will probably already be booked and either in jail, or bailed out, so as to avoid that media circus. Next step will just be court proceedings.

          I think he will charge felonies. In terms of which ones, it’s hard to say. I think something along manslaughter or assault under the color of authority causing death. I think we will find out very very soon.

          1. ‘Reality Is’ a phony.

            I do believe this is the second lie I’ve caught you in, or third? Don’t know ’cause I don’t bother keeping files on you or anyone else. Pretty sure the NSA does that anyway. Several weeks ago you bragged you had seen the video the FPD and DA have kept from the Fullerton citizens, (but not the criminals). You said, and to the best of my recollection, I quote, “I’ve seen the video and there is nothing on it to indicate the police broke any laws [during Kelly Thomas’ murder].”

            Since your initial claim you changed your story to basically the one you regurgitate now, “Yes, I know [Kelly] was killed. I know it involved the cops. I also know how it all went down, …I think charges will be brought on the [two] [cops] that did wrong. I don’t think all 6 cops did wrong.” Yes, I recall for the last couple weeks your story has been ‘two cops will probably be charged,’ but that was not your initial claim. It seems I called someone a liar my first year online, but you are only the second person I recall having called that (online). It is not a word I use often, online or off, not even for GWB, or Barack Obama. Guess you’re just ‘special.’

            Of course there is another lie you like to spread about Ron Thomas being responsible for the FPD killing Kelly by “kicking his son to the curb” because [you allege] he didn’t love him. We both are aware you are neither God, nor psychic, so could not possible know Ron’s heart. Actually you have spouted other gems here providing ample reason to call you a liar. It must be convenient in your line of work to be amoral.

            The only ‘facts’ you are interested in are the ones that support your lies, and like your story you change them when ever you chose to fit your agenda.

      3. IDENTIFICATION OF OR FOR WHAT? NO ONE IS DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL YOU IDIOT, AND THEY HAD BEST DO SOME SPLAINING LOOCY!

    2. @One for the books
      What’s scary is that they can run all the pictures thru Facial Recognition Software developed at MIT to identify people for future reference. Maybe build a database of all protestes. One day you get pulled over and when the cop goes back to his patrol car with your ID, viola! , your picture comes up and who the hell knows what happens after that. Your picture could also end up in a national database. It is all possible with the way things are going today. I totally agree with you though, we shouldn’t worry if we are not doing anything wrong or hiding anything. I’m just being a little paranoid, but just cuz i am, doesn’t mean i’m wrong. Everyone just please be careful and observant out there. Peace to all of KT supporters.

  14. Jaramillo was never an informant, it was the senior Haidl that became a FBI informant. I believe that Jaramillo was already serving his time and Haidl did not want to go to prison.

    1. Both became informants. Jaramillo made some very public comments that he had been the cover for Carona from the beginning and that cover would end. If that occurred, I can not site it from what I read in the media. The role of Haidl in wearing a wire on Carona became more public.

  15. The City of Fullerton is on media radar… BIG TIME! Attorney Garo Mardirossian is monitoring everything that happens. The Fed’s are watching developments closely. Massive corruption has already been exposed. It would be INSANE for the city to instigate ANY kind of trouble beyond what they already have!

  16. One for the books :
    The City of Fullerton is on media radar… BIG TIME! Attorney Garo Mardirossian is monitoring everything that happens. The Fed’s are watching developments closely. Massive corruption has already been exposed. It would be INSANE for the city to instigate ANY kind of trouble beyond what they already have!

    Many have said that just like the DA.. who can work better than “The Cleaner” to cover shit up and take the Heat.. Eric Holder is the last word on Fed Charges and no matter how much investigating and how much evidence they find.. HE is the final word just like CRIMINAL NUMBER ONE tony rackauckas

    1. Eric Holder and Kamala Harris doesnt exactly strike confidence in me. I think they can easily be bought and intimidated.

      I wish Jerry Brown was still California AG, I think he would have vigorously gone after Fullerton like he went after Bell even if the charges didnt stick.

      1. His name has to be made up. Losers change their names because they want to be something they are not.

        He must be furious at the world.

        cheesey, cheesey, cheesey!

  17. He’s just a salesman who travels around to numerous PDs. Offers tactical products, restock, etc. Normal at all PDs. I’m sure the orders at the PD are public accessible which would include shields, batons, gas, rubber bullets, and other items used in daily operations or crowd situations. I would say now would be a good time to stock the armory with all kinds of items and also to practice crowd control situations. So the practicing and the stocking, if that’s what Aardvark was doing, is just normal operations. As much as you hate it, the PD and surrounding agencies have to be prepared in case something happens. Doesn’t mean something will happen, but they have to be ready. Tactical alert will be in affect, so you will see this type of activity at all the agencies around Fullerton as well as OC Sheriffs.

    1. “I would say now would be a good time to stock the armory with all kinds of items and also to practice crowd control situations.”

      Why? The only people likely to riot are the cops themselves.

        1. Your right. Cops don’t riot. They just beat the shit out of you, them drum up bogus charges and have you arrested. Them put the burden on the victim to pay for an attorney and fight the bogus charges with the DA,s office and court system.

          1. Interesting. I went to Seattle for the WTO protests mentioned in that link. We did not riot. We protested peacefully against the US government giving up American sovereign decision making to a foreign power, the World Trade Organization. We were not anti-American, nor anti-government. We were US Patriots protesting the United States Government giving to a foreign power what our Forefathers fought the War on Independence to claim from King George.

            We even had a Congress-critter or two speak there. Saw and listened to them myself firsthand (recorded it on my Handicam). There were artistic performances in a downtown church, intellectual speeches given, public prayers, and a slow peaceful walk in the street afterward down to the King Dome (sports stadium–no longer there). No violence on our part at all! Completely NON-violent PEACEFUL protest. The Seattle Police, however, had a lot of brand new riot gear they were itching to try out and they DID riot! The damned anarchists may have provided SPD initial excuse by spray painting graffiti on a couple cop cars, and breaking a Starbucks store window, but the police took it to the next level, so the anarchists returned tit-for-tat.

            The police are supposed to be the responsible ones, but they kept escalating the situation until they were completely out of control and attacking anyone on the streets of Seattle both downtown and up on Capital Hill. I have never been more disappointed in the media. They were totally government stooges during that brutal crackdown on our Constitutional Rights of Free Assembly and Free Speech.

            The Seattle Police were out of control! If armed armored testosterone hyped-up goons attacking everyone they see including innocent civilians isn’t rioting, what is it? Oh I see, it isn’t rioting when the GOVERNMENT indiscriminately attacks peaceful innocents? Perhaps that is correct, but then it would be rightly called OPPRESSION wouldn’t it? Rioting police or government oppression, take your pick.

            People, at Justice for Kelly protests, please understand why every weekend I remind you to be careful and give the insane thugs NO excuse to attack you. So far the OC DA is sitting on his thumbs. Until he, or the Feds press/es charges the FPD has no reason to believe they will be held accountable for their actions. jmho. Remain vigilant, remain calm.

            Peace.

            Reality Is, you are a quack/crank. Either you are an intentional LIAR or you are terribly ignorant and just pretend to be a cop. Either way you lost any right to respect a long time ago.

  18. and you are saying that fullerton is in the habit of using shields, batons, gas, rubber bullets, and other items used in daily operations or crowd situations, so much that there is a need for “restocking”??

    so much violence goes on in fullerton.. come on now..

    1. No. Not in the habit that’s why restocking with non expired items is critical. Fullerton also doesn’t have alot of experience in crowd or riot situations so in a time such as this they need to be prepared. Just like Rodney King and other times of public disappointment (possible), cities must be prepared. If all goes well and everyone is happy, then being prepared was a good thing and training always good for everyone.

      1. It seem pretty obvious to this tax payer that they would not have to be concerned about riots if they didn’t commit murder, hide the evidence and rape us with their sadistic pensions.

        I call it ” testing outrage “.

        The pigs want a riot, and they will keep testing us until they find the breaking point. A riot to them equals increased budgets and more militarization of their policies, which is all they want.

        They are the criminals. Too bad we are a nation of pussies. We are governed by criminals, and their grip on power is such that it will not be broken while they live.

        I am not advocating violence, I am simply stating the opinion that unless you are preparred to take a revolution all the friggen way you might as well grease up your ass and learn to enjoy the sodomy because it is official government policy.

        1. Sadistic. Funny. PERS is Satan.

          Your government points are true though. Fighting against the system is tough. All or nothing.

          1. What do you think should be the game plan for our side if Ruckus no-files the case or files only dipshipt misdemeanors. Everyone talks about the feds, but I have seen no documentation they are or will be doing anything and I could not have a worse opinion about Holder. Your thoughts?

        2. I don’t think that you are right ATG, otherwise we would see riots on a regular basis. What you have are cops given license to use force to accomplish a lawful goal using that license to commit homicide and other crimes. The administrative and political funtions of the City that should have prevented or limited it have allowed criminal behavior to multiply.

          Still, the Fullerton police force and the City Council exist and they still have a responsibility to keep the city under control and to prevent anarchists from burning the place down.

          There is a movement here that can change Fullerton for a generaton politically, don’t ruin it by subsiding into an “us against them” mentality and sliding into supporting anarchy.

      2. At times such as this? What’s happening that makes it “times such as this?” Actually as I remember during the Rodney King riots the LAPD just stood around not doing anything.

        1. It might appeared as nothing was done but it was. When that many people overtake numerous areas at the same time, there isn’t much that can be done. The last thing that will happen is 10 cops going in to attempt arrests. They will end up dead. All cops were on duty doing things, but some areas were a lost cause.

          1. Come on RI. As Bo would say, the police handled things “stupidly.” The general public learned they have no right to expect protection from the police and thus learned they need to protect themselves – making these union thugs more than dispensable.

  19. He’s a VENDOR/Salesman, not a FPD employee. He may have been trying to gauge the attitude and approach of the group, so he could use that as a sales tactic.

    It IS a public event open to everone – right?

    1. I think the event was just a thought in terms of preparation. The training and stocking and preparation was for this week.

    2. I say that someone should phone him and let him in that he’s getting trashed on the blo,, and see if he’s like the opprtunity to explain himself here on the FFFF blog.

  20. If Aardvark doesn’t work out long term for this Craig Fury, I would hire him in a heartbeat. Although there is suspicion about his presence at protest, he was very thick-skinned and extremely honest. An honest Salesman is invaluable to any organization. An honest law enforcement person is impossible to find!

    1. He not in law enforcement. He drums up business by selling overpriced crap to the cops.

      He may be honest but he sure doesn’t seem very bright.

    2. Come on wrong guy. You know there are plenty of honest law enforcement people everywhere. At least be realistic. You may have hate and disrespect toward cops but even you know there are good cops around.

  21. yes it is, but he was obviouslly not there to support kelly.. just sizing up the crowd.

    how can you not see the obvious??

  22. This Saturday I attended both the protest at the FPD station and the concert afterwards. I had the privilege of talking to many people about the situation we face here in Fullerton. I met male, female, young, old, conservative, liberal, Republican, Libertarian, Democrat, tall, short, black, white, brown and everything in between. I shook hands and exchanged conversation. While we all were diverse in our backgrounds, we were united in our purpose. To support Ron Thomas and his family in their time of grief for their deceased son, Kelley, who had his life cut short by those who were sworn to protect him. We were united as Fullertonians, Californians and most important, Americans. The events were passionate and fervant, all the while peaceful. I was proud to be a part of the gathering. I felt connected to my fellow Americans and in my heart knew I had to be there to make a difference if I could. I hope I did that.

    I want to give a shout out to some other concerned Americans who I stand shoulder to shoulder with in a quest for justice. Let me say “Hi” to 9c1copcar and that misguided Notre Dame football fan, fedupwithmorons. Thanks for being so gracious,courteous and friendly to me.

    I think it was Fedup who asked me if I could hear the honking and voices from my house in a nearby neighborhood. Like I said, yes I could and they are a sweet alarm clock for me to wake up to on Saturday. I hope that alarm clock rings until justice is delivered to us all.

    Lastly, I want to give a big thumbs up to FFFF, Tony Bushala, Chris Thompson and all those others who have worked tirelessly to bring this sad event, along with many others, to light in Fullerton, California and to the citizens across the USA.

    Thanks to everyone and keep your voices loud and clear until this noble cause is won. And always remember to keep it peaceful.

    1. Nice post by you, The Moron! (no offense)
      Fedup and 9c1copcar are the ‘real deal’ and have and continue to post some extremely supportive info for us citizens seeking justice.
      I echo your sintiments about all the various individuals you met at the concert. Us justice seekers are ALL obviously more intelligent and ethical than the entire FPD and the 3 clucks on the city council. We WILL prevail!!! By we, I mean the Thomas family, more than anyone.

    2. YO, MORON! THERE YA ARE! FINALLY! YOU POOR MISGUIDED SC FAN! ND BEAT MICHIGAN 31-13, SO Nah! HOW COME YOU GUYS DIDN’T HANG AROUND, WE COLLECTED SOME EMAIL ADDRESSES LAST WEEKEND…DIDN’T GET YOURS! :/

  23. Reality Is :
    No. Not in the habit that’s why restocking with non expired items is critical. Fullerton also doesn’t have alot of experience in crowd or riot situations so in a time such as this they need to be prepared. Just like Rodney King and other times of public disappointment (possible), cities must be prepared. If all goes well and everyone is happy, then being prepared was a good thing and training always good for everyone.

    do you really think that if the outcome is not as we wish, that the ppl of fullerton, who love and respect their city, will riot like south central??
    there is no comparison to the mentalities between the cities!

    ppl of fullerton have more sense and realize they have to work together to fix this problem!

    1. No. I don’t think they will. I think it’s much different. I think people in Fullerton believe the tight thing will happen in the end.

      Cities and police always have to prepare and be ready. You have to remember that out of town rebels and gangsters look at times like this as an opportunity to cause problems.

      I think no matter what Fullerton will be fine. This group is very mellow and hopefully stays focused on the goal.

      1. I’m going to go to the doctor today and get my head checked. And then go to my minister and get my morals checked. Because I find myself completely in agreement with you on this. 😛

      2. Now I know you don’t mean me as an out-of-town-rebel planning violence, right-:)?

        But it is always good to plan ahead – chess-move style. I believe I asked this in another post, but what should our side do if Ruckus no-files? And by this I don’t mean what do you want to see happen, but rather what is your strategery opinion.

        I think you and I agree on one thing: It is a much larger issue than a city council and one case. DAs have more power than almost any other politician in their lack of accountability. Because a state recall is so difficult, the only accountability for Ruckus is not until the 2014 election.

  24. i think that if out of town trouble makers were to start anything, the ppl of fullerton would step in to stop them.. and i hope the pd is aware of this!
    and not jump to conclusions as they seem to do!!

    1. Do you really feel that way? Have you seen some of the protests or soccer riots in recent years in LA or surrounding areas? Hardcore gangsters in large groups with one thing on their mind. Damage property, steal things, hurt people, and cause chaos with no specific purpose. This group would run. This group is about peace, not the message gangsters send.

  25. and btw, i do agree with you about the da probably not charging all of the officers, you’re right, it will depend on the time that they all arrived..

    release the tape and show us!!

    1. I have said that from day 1. All the officers will not be charged. You will see portions of the tape once the DA makes his announcement. I think this week 🙂

  26. Jeez, you guys are so far ahead of these old goons it’s not even funny. Well, hell, yes, it is funny. The more they twist the deeper they impale themselves.

    Keep it up. You can’t lose.

  27. I have a quic question are FPDO’s supposed to take their bikes and get rides to the train station. Ives seen a motorcycle cop same time everyday jump on the 91 towards riverside on the fpd motorcycle. also ive seen numerous cops get rides from the station to the train station and get dropped off in fpd cruisers. is this allowable.

    1. Motorcycle cops ride their bikes home.

      Rides to the train. Not sure. Probably allowed to encourage people to ride the train.

    2. When I was growing up I used to see cops riding the bus all the time then for whatever reason they just started wearing plain clothes. I guess it was because people would harass them.

      In my areas you don’t even see them shopping at the stores anymore. Atleast you still see firefighters.

      Cops are becoming more and more isolated from the public.

  28. Hey it was my lil ol baby girl that came up to me ( not her first rodeo folks) and asked who is this guy? She brought it to my attention and I asked a few people to go over and block him from taking pictures of peacefull protesters….but I am not everyone and several people took him to task- the second picture of him walking- is him with his arms up—yelling at my daughter- she stated- Thank YOu Officer! from across Commonwealth= he yelled Im not an officer and laughed at her- she laughed and said OK OFFICER – A couple brave people followed him and asked when they were alone- So were alone now- what really are you doing? He kept to himself and then slithered into the PD – he had his own door man waiting- I was there you had to knock on the door to use their bathroom….if aint affiliated- why the VIP service?
    Ha ha a 19 year old baby sniffed you out-I think we have our mascot- a smashed aardvark

    1. Block people from taking pictures? Odd. I would think you want cooperation from all sides. What if someone blocked you from taking pics?

  29. Cooperation is 1 thing…infiltrating and lying is another- Capt Hughes said he has never heard of Aardvark, even tho Capt DAn HUghes was talking to him I have pics, and Mr Fury went back into the pOlice station- I dont give a crap WHo takes pictures…..the guy who was getting his pic taken cared…so we went over…I asked a nice gentleman with a video camera to come-
    As far as what would I do…if someone was trying to block me from pictures….I figure I dunno I would move? I swear if you were there- it was sinister…..believe me Reality is…if you felt uncomfortable about someone taking your picture, I too would help you out- you kinda had to be there it was WEIRD…just my humble opinion

    1. Makes sense. I think any one of us, even this group, would say “why is this guy taking my picture” when we first see it. Even if on duty and I see someone videoing me or taking pics of me I’ll walk over and talk go them. Casual conversation to get a feel for their motives. When their first response is because it’s my right and I hate cops and you can’t do anything about it, I know exactly what I’m dealing with LoL

      1. When their first response is because it’s my right and I hate cops and you can’t do anything about it, I know exactly what I’m dealing with LoL

        …Is this when you beat them to death and destroy the video?

        1. Nope. Just keep talking with them. Some of the best conversations come from people like that. Learn a lot about them and their motives and beliefs. I’m usually videoing and audio recording as well.

  30. Reality Is :Come on wrong guy. You know there are plenty of honest law enforcement people everywhere. At least be realistic. You may have hate and disrespect toward cops but even you know there are good cops around.

    Come on Realiy Is, you know I know there are good cops out there, as you have been reading my posts for the past month or so. Maybe I should have said, “an honest law enforcement person is HARD to find.” So far, everything I heard Captain Dan Hughes say he will do, he does. I heard a woman telling him about a run-in her daughter had with an FPD officer this past Saturday. He asked her to send him the officer’s name, date and time of incident and he wilkl investigate. I also heard him, say the week before that he will dismiss ALL horn honking citations, and he did. I appreciate you calling me out on that one, REality Is. So, I digress.

    1. Oh. I thought you were talking about statewide. I can see why you would feel that way about Fullerton specifically at this point in time. I’m sure there are some really good cops in Fullerton too but with everything going on, I’m sure most cops are just going on calls and that’s about it at this point.

        1. 100% yes. There is no pro active crime fighting going on in Fullerton. Minimal policing. Answer calls for service and drive around. No reason to do anything else right now. Imagine the pro active gang cops or GtA cops getting in chases, having to use force, shootings, or anything else in this climate in Fullerton right now? Lose lose. Not worth it.

          1. Community and citizen contacts I’m sure are fine. If its someone with hate or anger and they say something, it’s simple. Walk away and talk to another citizen that wants to talk.

          2. We still can’t have rouge cops beating the homeless to death out on the street, or anywhere else.

            An officer beating someone to death for running away is a perminent solution to a temporary problem.

            The punishment doen’t fit the crime.

  31. If there is a riot in Fullerton I have two words of advice for everyone: Run and Hide.
    First off, most of the people that riot are not even involved with the cause. They are usually opportunists looking to instigate problems and probably not even from the area.
    Second, FPD is looking for some payback. They are pissed and I would not want to get beat down by a cop wearing a mask in full riot gear.

    1. They are not looking for payback, they are in a job that is never finished with no end in sight except for retirement.
      Societies ills weigh heavy on their minds, and it sickens the spirit. many men get spiritualy sick after 1 year on the force. They band together for support and build tight bonds because they only understand each other.

      Many officers have great respect for me as a law abiding citizen.

      But, we still have to weed out those who get gratification from beating people up, although instincts do play a part in the behavior, I think, after time, some of these people have to be let go for everyones sake and quikly.

  32. I have a better picture of this guy.. Let me know if you need it.. I’m the one who followed this guy all the way back to the FPD.. He was a complete ASS!

  33. Don’t be a ‘Pussy’ Get real! Stand up and at least break out your video camera in the event of a riot. If you can’t do that, change your moniker to “Run and Hide”.

      1. So at the street protests, I have seen numerous elderly, small children, and various long-time residents who might even be considered “pillars of the community.”

        At the concert, I saw and met 2 city council members, numerous long-time Fullerton political activists from all sides, etc.

        The idea that the Fullerton Police Department is going to put on full riot gear, mount horses or whatever and start indiscriminately beating these people is just weird and absurd.

        We have the right to protest. We have the right to film, video, and photography police officers as they perform their duties. We have the right to talk back, to say what we want, to ask whatever questions we want.

        We are all standing up for these rights. We don’t need to be paranoid that the police are going to attack us. Fear and intimidation isn’t working for them. Their only hope is to regain the goodwill of the community and they know that.

        No fear!

        1. I don’t think fear and intimidation was a motive here. Someone took a picture of them training in crowd control in the parking lot at the rear of the station and posted that they had an opinion of why. If they really wanted to intimidate or put fear in some people, they should have just hired the whole PD on overtime and had them gear up and sit in the parking lot of the event. They were simply doing preparation training for something they probably haven’t trained for in years. The tactics used in crowd control and riot situations is complex and isn’t easy to remember. So them doing that in preparation for the event, as well as this week, is completely normal and I don’t think had anything to do with intimidation.

          1. Who are you and what have you done with the old Reality Is? It’s like you’ve suddenly developed common sense and the ability to think logically.

  34. Wrong Guy- absolutely there are great officers over in the PD….I like Dan personally, but professionally he is one of ” them” ( that sounds horrible)….and I have had many many conversations with Him- he has helped me personally with incident reports that were origionally refused to me- DAN was stumped walked in and got me the report- I had been fighting to get that report- he got it to me with in 8 minutes- who does that? again personally really like the guy- he even worked out for a marathon ( like a crazy Ironman type ) that he was going to do- but didnt do – 1- because he wanted to be around for the memorial.
    2- He felt in unprofessional to go- ( under the circimstance) and since he does have a decent relationship with us in KA- he wanted to be here if ANYTHINg went down
    here it comes….. Dan did take care of the tickets, like he said, but why did he origionally say they were only giving out warnings-does he not have control of the officers- do they not listen to their CApt? Why did DAn say he never heard of Aardvark or MR Fury when I have foto’s of him talking before we went over to talk to MR Fury. Why then did DAn say he not know Aardvark- yet look up there are the foto’s. I know DAn aint perfect- I LIKE him, but if you lie are you not in fact a liar? Just asking
    this was a hard post for me Im conflicted on DAN HUghes…..you may not like what he does but- he has been doing it for this city for Years and this guy brings Kelly THomas mother Easy ups so she wont be in the sun and they bring water and Ice out…so if you ask me he is 2398 thousand times better than Sellers or Mc Kinley. We shall see whats up with Kevin Hamilton.

    1. I have observed over the years that CaptainDan Hughes always really goes out of his way to try and do the right thing. He is a long time Fullerton resident and IMHO he truly cares about our city.

      1. FULLERTON, HAVE YOU MET THE GUY AT THE PROTEST WHO HAD HIS WIFE BEATEN UP BY HUGHES? HUGHES IS A SNAKE IN THE GRASS. NOT WORTHY OF OUR TRUST.

    2. CAPT. EMPTY PANTS HUGHES BEAT THE HELL OUT OF A WIFE OF ONE OF OUR PROTESTORS……LIKE BRITANNY SPEARS SONG SAYS….”HE’S NOT THAT INNOCENT”.

  35. You bring up some very good points about honesty with Capt. Dan. Also noticed your post earlier about him denying he knows who Aardvardk is. Yes, law enforcement officers are probably the biggest liars out of all professions and unfortunately, the higher up the ranks, the BIGGER the Bullshitters. That I’ve know from first hand experiences with a couple of other local law enforcement agencies. One, an L.A. County Sheriff dept., and one a local police department. As far as Captain Dan Hughes goes, I believe he is a man of integrity and is fully capable of being honest; however, he has been a part of an extremely Corrupt and flat out Dishonest police department for years and that lying behavior has rubbed off on him from having a ‘Pile-o-Shit’ boss like Sellers.

  36. Reality Is :No. Not in the habit that’s why restocking with non expired items is critical. Fullerton also doesn’t have alot of experience in crowd or riot situations so in a time such as this they need to be prepared. Just like Rodney King and other times of public disappointment (possible), cities must be prepared. If all goes well and everyone is happy, then being prepared was a good thing and training always good for everyone.

    That is why I think it was a responsible thing for FPD to prepare for a potential riot, since they project the DA to be making their announcement this week on the fate of the FPD Dirty 6. Although the chances are slim to none that Fullerton citizens will riot, it seems to me that for once, FPD is doing the responsible thing here. SAnta Ana is the one who should be preparing. Any lash-back should be to the DA’s office, not so much FPD.

  37. Reality Is :
    Cops don’t riot. I don’t think anyone will riot.

    Humanity hopes otherwise… Embarrassing testament to the Hijacking of Evolution that

    The D.A. is best friends with the cops when he needs a conviction against a civilian.

    BUT

    when called by the people to investigate his best friends and business partners

    /SUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!

    The Legal System is a joke-puppet show!

    Humans have lost their self-respect to allow the “pack-herd” to discipline/punish the “pack-herd”
    If humanity ever evolves properly/further – there would be a council detached from all that truly polices the police etc… with Love of Humanity and Brotherhood with all citizens… not this BLUELINE nonsense.. Protect and Serve????

    TELL US WHAT WAS accomplished the night the FPD Murdered Kelly Thomas?
    —————————

    You don’t have to answer.. but

    if you knew your Son or Daughter murdered someone in a fit of rage and you could easily cover it up ………………

    but if you didn’t work to cover it up.. they would spend most of the rest of their life in Prison…

    what would YOU do?

    1. What if the DA comes out today and charges 4 cops? And lays out his timeline for how his investigation took place, and what was done each week? And it all makes sense in the end?

      1. Two would [probably do. Even if T-Rack came our with no prosecutions, I would haope that people would vest in the civil procedings and the oversight of the FBI.

  38. Humanity still has a Trump Card here

    YOUTUBE..

    when that SNUFF Film gets released during the trial.. VIRAL WORLDWIDE

    scary.. I don’t want to see it to be totally honest

      1. You kind of have to watch the movie V for Vendetta to get it.

        You may or may not like it, but its pretty entertaining, and it explains the Guy Fawkes masks.

      2. read the Tulsa news this week. cops kick down door and arrest a woman who testified against them in court for 4 year old tickets. by the way the cops were dope dealing pigs. thats why goober

      3. I personally know that particular girl with the mask on, and she is homeless and afraid of retribution by the FPD. My children and I have been feeding and clothing the homeless here in Fullerton for years, and I often hear from most, that they have been deathly afraid of the FPD long before the Kelly Thomas beating.

  39. Reality Is :
    What if the DA comes out today and charges 4 cops? And lays out his timeline for how his investigation took place, and what was done each week? And it all makes sense in the end?

    With what charges? misdemeanor assault?

    How much penalty faced?

    1. No. I think 2 will be charged with felonies. Penalties are all dependent on the charges and the trial. Trial will be hardcore.

      Look at the Bart cop. Shot the guy in the back and got a year?

      Just depends on the case.

  40. Reality Is :
    No. I think 2 will be charged with felonies. Penalties are all dependent on the charges and the trial. Trial will be hardcore.
    Look at the Bart cop. Shot the guy in the back and got a year?
    Just depends on the case.

    I can forgive a shooting far far (insert a bunch more “fars” here) more than a prolonged bloodthirsty brutal beating and tasering and whatever else we don’t know specifics of yet.

    Gunshot.. was a momentary (evil though) lapse of sanity/reason..

    What the FPD6 did to Kelly Thomas bares no quarter in the brutality and total prolonged disregard for human life and especially the citizenry they live with and preside over

    1. Agree. I remember watching the cop’s reaction after the shooting and seeing the “WTF?!?” look on his face. And later saying that he thought it was his Tazer. This at least SOUNDS plausible. I’m not defending that officer, but I am saying that particular incident COULD HAVE possibly been an accident.

      But you don’t beat someone so repeatedly and thoroughly by accident. Nope.

  41. MeYou :

    Reality Is :
    No. I think 2 will be charged with felonies. Penalties are all dependent on the charges and the trial. Trial will be hardcore.
    Look at the Bart cop. Shot the guy in the back and got a year?
    Just depends on the case.

    I can forgive a shooting far far (insert a bunch more “fars” here) more than a prolonged bloodthirsty brutal beating and tasering and whatever else we don’t know specifics of yet.
    Gunshot.. was a momentary (evil though) lapse of sanity/reason..
    What the FPD6 did to Kelly Thomas bares no quarter in the brutality and total prolonged disregard for human life and especially the citizenry they live with and preside over

    Tasered a skinny MALNOURISHED homeless man repeatedly??

    If that doesn’t show an absolute peak level of sadism..

    1. Irma pleaded not guilty to the specific charges brought against her. Many of the survivors of Belsen testified against Irma. They spoke of the beatings and the arbitrary shooting of prisoners, the savaging of prisoners by her trained and half starved dogs, of her selecting prisoners for the gas chambers and of her sexual pleasure at these acts of cruelty.

      http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/irma.html

  42. Bus riders said he was yelling that he cant breathe and then his last cries while still being bludgeoned were cries out to God and his Father.

    Play that to any honest jury in the world …. doubtful we will have one in this trial though.

    –ya know.. there is a chance FPD6 gets the wrong judge.. but see.. all these Judges and da and blueline are somewhat united for each other

  43. Reality Is :
    She’s easy to pick out. The mask must just be for theme at this point. She was known since the beginning.

    oops .. ty.. I hadn’t followed well enough 🙂

  44. I don’t think he will no file the case. He’s put too much work into the case and even if it was an all out fight for their lives, it’s hard to justify what happened. I personally feel that the DA isn’t corrupt like everyone is saying here. He’s taking his time because it’s a complex, very involved case. He couldn’t just file quick, and then release because they had 100 more witnesses to interview, coroner’s report to obtain, police reports to take in, etc. If he did that, the cops would be released due to the investigation anyways and then the charges could change in the end. I think he will file the appropriate charges and if the facts are looked at, it will match the charges. We will see.. If he doesn’t file at all or misdemeanor? I would be very very surprised. If that happens, I think that’s when the feds step in and conduct their own investigation related to civil rights, etc. But if they have knowledge of the facts, they may agree with the DA’s interpretation as well. We will learn more this week I think.

    ExPat ExLawyer :
    What do you think should be the game plan for our side if Ruckus no-files the case or files only dipshipt misdemeanors. Everyone talks about the feds, but I have seen no documentation they are or will be doing anything and I could not have a worse opinion about Holder. Your thoughts?

    1. Thanks for your reply. I will be quite happy if serious felony charges are filed. It’s been all the concern about “riots” most of all that made me think no-file. Plus, my experience seeing no-files in Colorado – and then after eight months of “investigation.”

      Glad to hear your candid comments about the beating death itself.

    2. Yes, this is exactly what I’ve been trying to get across here for weeks. And while I agree with all the reasons you cite for the delay, I will remind again also that convictions against police officers for anything related to excessive force are extremely hard to obtain. Hell, cops start out every day authorized to use deadly force. Juries are loathe to second guess their snap decisions made in the field. The DA has to make sure he’s got all his ducks in a row.

      Most here on FFF are starting to get this it seems. A few weeks ago the most common statement I used to read here was “release the video,” and second was it’s companion question “why are they hiding the video?” Not so common anymore.

      I’ll also add that T-Racks demeanor in the “DA Gives Update” video on the OCR did not appear to me to be that of prosecutor willing to let this high profile opportunity go without a good hard fight.

  45. are you sure this is the same reality is that comes here in the evenings?? you’re not half bad when you’re not being a jerk!!

    say.. have YOU?? seen the tape?? you seem to know so much about the case.

    1. He is smart and almost all his legal stuff is accurate. (And I only use the “almost” qualifier in case I missed anything. I actually have not read any legal stuff from RI that was wrong).

      Maybe RI can be the new chief after this is over. Sounds like he’s got at least twice the IQ of Sellers.

  46. My favorite part of Tony’s blog entry: “Did the cops employ this clown to spy on peaceful protesters?”

    In a golf shirt with “Aardvark Tactical” plastered across his chest? lol

    Second favorite part: “If not why was he there?”

    Sorry, but this is such a cheesy way to manipulate an audience by provoking doubt and insecurity. It’s like when a financial planner trolling for business asks, “Are your investments performing as well as they should?” The question itself doesn’t impy that they aren’t, but that’s not how your mind reads it.

    Even more comical is the consistent use of questions as headlines, as in the “What are we expecting?” blog entry last week. Like with the dentist who headlines his ad, “Are you happy with the appearance of your teeth?” you are being set up for a sales pitch without actually being pitched; your bullshit alarms stay silent.

    It’s right out of Marketing 101…

    Reality Is has this Craig Fury guy pegged exactly, he’s just a salesman out making his rounds, looking for opportunities.

    1. This salesman was seen by me going into the police station and then going across the street to take pictures of the protesters for a couple of minutes untilhe was confronted by protesters and at that point he retreated back inside the police station. Sales calls made on a Saturday afternoon are also a little shady as well.

      1. A good salesman is always working, in the office, on the golf course, everywhere.

        As for the picture taking I can think of many, much more mundane explanations for his actions than that he was spying or somehow working covertly with suspect intentions while wearing a golf shirt with his company’s name plastered across his chest!!!

  47. LOL same ol’ me. My name was hijacked a few times, actually, more than a few times. I’ve always been the same though. I just have extensive knowledge of law enforcement, laws, use of force, and cases involving such. I hate to see it when people don’t rely on the facts of cases, just the end result (death). Emotions play big in times like this and it just makes it worse when people spout lies and BS just to get people more angry.

    I’ve always said since Day 1 that the facts will come out and if people did wrong, they will be punished.

    I remember a video from the midwest some where where a black guy is running from a cop in front of a gas station. One dash cam video shows the shooting and it’s crazy!! It’s a straight out execution of an unarmed man and he shoots him in the back. You think wow how and why did he shoot him like that? He needs to go to jail for murder. Luckily there was another dash cam and it shows that the kid was reaching and pulling out and gun and was just about to turn and shoot the other cop when he was shot dead. Without the other dash cam, the cop would have been charged with murder for sure. The activists and community would have formed their opinions of the one video and that would have been the end. Similar to the San Francisco shooting a few months ago. Investigations take time to complete and rushing to judgement is hard not to do for people. I just try to rely on that since I’ve seen so many cases change when all the evidence is analyzed and the timelines laid out.

    Stud Lee :
    Who are you and what have you done with the old Reality Is? It’s like you’ve suddenly developed common sense and the ability to think logically.

    1. About the hijacking…what kinds of things were the hijackers saying? The things I remember you most for are smearing the family and Kelly in ways that I just couldn’t understand how a human being would behave. Was it these things or was that really you?

      It seemed so wrong that I was wondering if you worked for a company that professionally smears people kindof just like the city attorney told Ron Thomas that he would be doing. I’m tempted to think that on days like today, you’re just the more rational employee who just happens to be at work today using the RI monicker as opposed to the 2-3 other employees who work at different times and who are actually enjoying the sick taunting.

      1. I have my personal feelings about Ron Thomas. I base that on knowledge of him as a Deputy, how he ended up leaving that job, and about his treatment of Kelly. In my mind that is all totally separate from the Kelly case. I try to minimize what I say related to that.

        1. Do you know him personally?

          Regardless of his performance as a deputy (which I’m still unsure of how or even if you know), I’m not sure you know what his treatment of Kelly is or how he feels about losing his son. Not that I know either, but probably much like most other people would feel.

        2. AND NOTHING THAT YOU KNOW ABOUT RON THOMAS OR HIW HE TREATED HIS SON IS IRRELEVANT TO WHAT THE COPPERS DID TO KELLY!

    2. This sounds like the “shoot or don’t shoot” training videos from the FBI we watched in my criminal law class in law school.

      I guess i’m not as confident as you that truth or justice will prevail.

  48. Stud Lee :Who are you and what have you done with the old Reality Is? It’s like you’ve suddenly developed common sense and the ability to think logically.

    Actually StudLee (fan of your posts by the way here and OCR) – Reality Is and Reality Cakes and his other nom de plumes has been mixing it up for weeks. At times he seems like a rational and reform-minded LEO who is just trying to get us all to be “realistic”. At other times he seems like he’s just trying to get a rise out of us. At other times he seems like a fascist. But he says he has been hijacked a lot so its hard to know which posts are actually by him and which are parodies. I figure the best thing to do is to respond to his posts in kind. If they’re reasonable debating points, debate back. If they’re off the cuff insults, same back at him etc. I figure sooner or later we’ll know who he is, just as he purports to already know whom most of us are.

    1. Thanks Jt.

      I totally agree with the multiple personality like posts. I just can’t see how the same person is posting them all. And each of the personalities seem extremely consistent. Like the reasonable reform-minded LEO personality is always pretty balanced and rational and actually likeable. And the sick narcissistic sadist is consistently disgusting and seems dumb and uneducated in his use of written language. And the facio-nazi personality skillfully brings out the anti-authoritarian in us all and overexerts our mental spell-check.

      It’s like I said before: It seems like 3 or so coworkers are paid to utilize social media to paint the civil suit and/or opposition against the city in a bad light. I dunno, I’m probably way off but this just seems most plausible. Maybe there are just people hijacking his name in attempt to MAKE this rational nice guy LEO APPEAR to be a sadistic prick.

      1. I’m not sure if he’s paid or freelancing. I’m guessing the latter. But I remember seeing a report out earlier this year on the national level about how lobbying groups basically hire trolls to dominate internet forums for newspapers and the like. It absolutely happens on the OCR website. But those commentors are so absolutely mindlessly stupid and easy to identify, plus they write like third-graders. Reality Is is much trickier because yeah, that first personality posts things which are actually worth discussing and sometimes quite keenly observed. When he’s in that mode he is contributing in a meaningful way to the debate.

        Anyway, whatever the tactic utilized (not necessarily by RI, but by any trolls) – attack Ron Thomas, say its all about money, say we’re all radical treehuggers, attack Tony Bushala (this is going to be the next big push I’m guessing), say we’re violent, say we’re outside agitators, say no good cops will ever want to work in Fullerton again – none of it is working. This group is way too smart to be fooled by those shenanigans.

        1. “that first personality posts things which are actually worth discussing and sometimes quite keenly observed. When he’s in that mode he is contributing in a meaningful way to the debate. ”

          I agree. RI, this is when you’re actually helpful. I do value counterbalances in conversations and debates, even more so when there is an emotional element involved in those debates. The emotional element has the tendency to drive people toward extremes. I think it is RI who first presented good arguments that the 6 officers might not ALL be involved. I don’t think I had even considered the possibility until he suggested it. I admit; I can at least imagine scenarios where an officer or 2 may have arrived late to the scene and maybe even missed the violence completely. See RI? Stay rational and you can have a good effect on others.

          “attack Ron Thomas, say its all about money, say we’re all radical treehuggers, attack Tony Bushala”

          All this is going to earn idiots is ridicule. And it will be utterly deserved.

          “Anyway, whatever the tactic utilized … – none of it is working. This group is way too smart to be fooled by those shenanigans.”

          I love this group. I love how everyone has been peaceful at the rallies despite idiots at the Register calling it a “lynch mob”. I agree…this group is WAY TOO SMART to be fooled by those shenanigans.

          1. This is not to defend any of the officers, but in any military style organization, like a police department, seniority carries tremendous weight between members of the group.

            If those who actually did the beating that caused Kelly’s death were senior officers, younger officers are at a disadvantage. It is drilled into them again and agin that they are to do only what their superiors tell them to do. It’s like wearing mental handcuffs.

            I’m not saying it excuses anything, but if a younger officer disobeys his superior who, as it has been shown was behaving badly and illegally (battery) in the ‘knocking the phone out of someone’s hand’ video, he, or she, could very well find themselves posted to duty in a dangerous area with no backup support after that. It does happen.

            Young officers have it beaten into them that they must always obey their superiors.

            Part of one video was of a young officer telling people to stay back. People weren’t listening and you could see he was frustrated, but he behaved well, didn’t yell or swear, didn’t threaten, he just put his body between the spectators and the other officers as a barrier and from what I could see he did his very difficult job as best he could.

            I think the situation he found himself in had him scared through and through.

            I hope he wasn’t involved in the actual beating.

          2. RI-ALL those that were there were accomplices just like if i just drove the getaway car in a murder but didnt do the actual deed, would be-
            and guess what? I would be punished for that. I stand by my conviction-they’re ALL guilty and should be prosecuted in a murder-and I hope they are. Someone could have said stop but didnt, someone could have stopped it, but didnt, Just as Guilty and I hope the judge sees that too- theres nothing more to it. Cops are not above the law-though they think they are and the shit you said about Kelly deserving this cause he resisted and the shit you said and contine to say about his father were nothing less then cruel, heartless and have nada to do with the fact that this man was beaten to death, the fact that you keep eluding to this point shows me what a monster you are- you are not fooling me you vicious demon-and what goes around, comes around

  49. Reality Is :
    I have said that from day 1. All the officers will not be charged. You will see portions of the tape once the DA makes his announcement. I think this week

    I AGREE THE FIX IS IN. GET OUT OF THAT CITY FAST. VENGEANCE IS COMING.

    1. But isn’t the wise course of action also the usual course of action? That is to wait for all the evidence to be collected and analyzed before deciding which charges to file. Especially in a case that one knows for sure will be an uphill battle?

  50. Sort of a tangled web here
    http://articles.latimes.com/2001/feb/15/local/me-25802

    I hope he goes to bat this hard for the murder of Kelly Thomas..

    “”If I get evidence that anybody who is an acquaintance or good friend or family member has committed a crime, I’m going to do my duty with that evidence,” he said. “If it’s not a conflict, I’ll prosecute. If there’s a conflict, or the appearance of a conflict, I’ll turn it over to the appropriate authority.”

  51. From today’s LAT: “Jurors said a video of the arrest and inconsistent testimony from deputies left them no choice earlier this month but to vote for acquittal.”

    Sound familiar?

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-sheriff-credibility-20110919,0,5809776.story

    I found this part to be especially interesting, given recent discussions here…

    “For all the breakthroughs in DNA and other forensic evidence, the criminal justice system still depends heavily on the honesty and accuracy of law enforcement officers. In recent years, the age-old defense strategy of attacking the credibility of police has been aided by the proliferation of security surveillance and cellphone cameras, which have given bystanders the ability to record officers’ encounters with suspects.

    Still, it is rare for jurors to publicly say they believe law enforcement officers lied under oath.”

    1. Yeah but what happens when its the cops who are the suspects?

      I have no doubt that if ever tried (not likely) the defense will use the lies of the defendants themselves to create a reasonable doubt in the minds of dim-witted OC jurors.

      1. That’s why the DA can’t rely on witness testimony of any kind, not from officers or the public. Eyewitnesses will contradict each other and cops will be counted on to lie. When this happens juries can usually be counted on to throw out all the witness testimony and look for other evidence on which to base their decision. This is why the autopsy and tox reports are absolutely critical and why the DA has been wise to wait and see what he’s got. It’s also why the DA has done the right thing (so far) in saving ‘the video’ for trial, so that it doesn’t lose impact in the intervening months.

  52. Reality Is :I have my personal feelings about Ron Thomas. I base that on knowledge of him as a Deputy, how he ended up leaving that job, and about his treatment of Kelly. In my mind that is all totally separate from the Kelly case. I try to minimize what I say related to that.

    Although most of your posts have been pretty neutral, I can’t undersand why you pro-FPD bloggers have resentment towards the victim’s father, Ron Thomas. He is a man who served as a Deputy with OCSD and more than likely would have moved up in rank, however he saw how corrupt and deceiving the upper-ranks are and therefore retired as a Deputy. Would you like to elaborate on how he treated (or mistreated) his son?

    1. “He is a man who served as a Deputy with OCSD and more than likely would have moved up in rank, however he saw how corrupt and deceiving the upper-ranks are and therefore retired as a Deputy”

      All I’ve ever seen is speculation about this. I’ve never seen any actual information or facts other than everyone agrees he was in law enforcement once and isn’t anymore. And yet either way I don’t see how it has any relevance.

      “Would you like to elaborate on how he treated (or mistreated) his son?”

      Please not again. It’s all based entirely on the way RI seems to want to speculate negatively on the family’s actions. Every single action taken by Ron, down to deciding when to take his morning dump or whether he wants hot or mild sauce with his Taco Bell, is determined by RI to be an evil uncaring attack on their son that directly caused his eventual death at the hands of the poor cops. I think he even said that Kelly screaming “dad, dad!” during the beating was actually Kelly having a flashback of when his dad beat him.

      1. I agree with you Stud, we don’t know why Ron Thomas left law enforcement for construction, and we don’t know the details of his family’s dynamic, so it’s foolish to judge either way. All I know for sure is that it is really, really tough to have a seriously mentally ill person in your family, so I’m even more inclined not to judge.

    2. WRONG THOSE ARE MY FEELINGS ABOUT RON EXACTLY. WE CAN ASK RON WHY HE LEFT OCSD AND HE IS STRAIGHT FORWARD ENOUGH TO TELL US.

  53. AZ res :
    He’s a VENDOR/Salesman, not a FPD employee. He may have been trying to gauge the attitude and approach of the group, so he could use that as a sales tactic.
    It IS a public event open to everone – right?

    These Arizona guys are turning out to be parasites. Guess there isn’t much out there for them, so they gotta come to Fullerton and try to Capitalize.

  54. My personal observation is that Reality Is has been the ‘Voice of Reason’ today on this particular blog. He has made some extremely accurate, sensible and not so pro FPD remarks as I believe he has done in the past.
    Stud and Eye are also correct on ‘who gives a rat’s ass why Ron Thomas left law enforcement’ as well as ‘how he treated his son’. I simply wanted an explanation from Reality is on that one, since he has posted some extremely reasonable perspectives today.
    Keep it up Reality Is. Although I miss blasting you with my insults from yesteryear, I appreciate your apparent logic.

    1. propaganda tactic. keep the enemy confused as to your intentions,, say something outrageous then explain in a reasonable tone how good you really are. of course that makes you wrong.

    2. Thanks.

      Maybe some of it has to do with statements people make on here about Thomas’ career, retirement, etc. I haven’t heard Ron say some of the things direct, so maybe it’s information coming from people exaggerating the truth. If Ron isn’t lying about that part I have no problems.

  55. That’s one of the reasons I chose ‘wrong guy’ as my moniker. The other reason is I wanted to see if FPD would be stupid enough to arrest me since they have stated Mr. Mam was the wrong guy. I’m simply tired of being right all of the time.

  56. dixiejon :
    propaganda tactic. keep the enemy confused as to your intentions,, say something outrageous then explain in a reasonable tone how good you really are. of course that makes you wrong.

    In the beginning they “The Reality IS team” tried to deflect and laid into Ron Thomas hard – vitriolic hatred …

    They tried to push people to the brink of smashing them in the head with a keyboard with all their over the top statements about how the cops would not be prosecuted etc..

    1. I’ve worried about this too. For me as a criminal defense lawyer, it was clear to me that RI indeed knows his stuff about the law. I’m not as clear about his goals, but he at least is not dumber than dirt like the rest.

      His desired outcome seems quite a bit better than I remember him saying a couple or three weeks ago. Overall, I think we are all strong enough to debate. My view has never wavered that we should have at least some of these cops prosecuted for manslaughter. In my ideal world, they would be prosecuted for Murder 2.

      Alas, the real world is not my ideal world.

      1. Even one of the less literate “evil trolls” admitted a problem in the Wren or Rincon cases too. And weeks ago RI (I think) said something about how the false arrest in the Mam case demonsrated that Hampton was a liability to the FPD.

        I agree with your call on what will happen and what should happen by the way.

  57. Craig Fury
    U.S. Army, Military Police, Captain
    Sales Representative, Aardvark Tactical

    I left the Army with the rank of Captain nine years ago and initially went to work as a Financial Advisor in Scottsdale, AZ. After drudging through a painful and unforgiving market, I started thinking that I wanted to do something with my time that I enjoyed. I love cooking, and I saw a market for a catering service that provided healthy food. I made the decision to leave the firm, made my plan, then pulled the trigger and started my own catering business. After getting married a little over a year ago, though, I began looking to sell my business and seek a job that would provide more stability for my family.

    While I was in the military, I served as a Military Police Officer and was stationed at Schofield Barracks in Hawaii. At first, my transition into the civilian sector was painful. I was not only in the wrong job, but I was in the wrong job at one of the worst times in history. (I got my Series 7 two weeks before 9/11).

    I do remember, though, getting to sit by the pool for the better part of a month while on terminal leave! But living the easy life came to an end when I began my financial advisor career and had to start work every day earlier than I ever had to show up for first formation.

    I took the job as a Financial Advisor thinking that I could make a long and happy career out of it, not fully considering that I didn’t have enough experience with it to make that determination. It didn’t take me long to figure out that the lifestyle of a Financial Advisor was just not the right career path for me.

    The experience, however, taught me quite a bit about what I did and did not want from my career and life. With these lessons in mind, I went about making my latest transition in a very organized, systematic fashion. I decided that I would look for a career in the medical device or pharmaceutical sales industry, as that seemed like the best fit for me. I thought I was best suited for medical device sales because I am really interested in healthcare (I originally went to school to be a neurosurgeon), I have an aptitude for the technical aspects of the medical world, and my personality is well-suited for sales.

    I spent tireless hours honing my resume to a razor’s edge, filtering through company information, and developing a detailed contact matrix for all the companies I was interested in. To build this matrix, I started with referrals from my friends in the industry. Then I looked on the internet for companies that were strong, innovative, and carried products in areas that I was interested in. I generated a very long list and started hacking away at it.

    I started making calls until I got the person I was after, usually a hiring manager or regional sales manager. I then tracked everything on a spreadsheet by company, contact, date, and status. I also utilized job sites like Monster, JobFox, and CareerBuilder. I included in this matrix no less than eight recruiters to help me along (never can be too sure, right?), one of which was Orion International.

    In retrospect, it felt like I was fighting a battle on two fronts: On one, I was beginning to get a feel for how difficult it was going to be for me to find the right job. Of the 23 companies that I contacted directly, I heard back from just two, only to learn that one position “might” become available in several months, and the other would require relocation. Of the eight recruiters, I had sporadic communication (at best) with two; no response at all from three; one required “exclusivity”; and another wouldn’t work with me because I was not transitioning directly out of the military.

    On the other front, there was Orion. The most memorable conversation was the one in which I learned that no pharmaceutical or medical device companies were coming to the hiring conference I wanted to attend. I was crushed, to be honest, until my recruiter piqued my interest by saying, “I do have someone you might want to look at, though. Aardvark Tactical.” “Tactical? Tell me more!” He had my attention. In fact, I would have missed this opportunity had I not listened to my recruiter’s recommendation. He was so right!

    This company was looking for a Territory Sales Manager to represent tactical equipment to law enforcement agencies in my area. I wondered if I was being “punked”. The opportunity sounded too good to be true. I was an MP, and I have my B.S. in Criminology, so it sounded like I might already have some really good training to help me along.

    The hiring conference was executed precisely as promised, and the interview went exactly as I expected. All the information I had was on point, and I knew the job was a fit. Thereafter, I had two more interviews with the company, which went just as well as the first. I was very prepared, and well-informed (knowing is half the battle, right?), and in an interview, that goes a long way.

    I now sell tactical equipment for Aardvark to law enforcement and military agencies. Within my first 90 days, I received a promotion of sorts: they doubled my territory! In my job, I have found my military experience to be invaluable, particularly in regards to discipline, and a sense of duty to honor commitments, which I learned through my years in the military. My discipline taught me to do the job correctly and to completion, regardless of the time or effort it takes. And my sense of duty has made for outstanding business relationships. These skills aren’t particular to me either! I see the difference in all of our veteran employees.

    I think that transitioning service members should use a military recruiting agency, especially if they don’t know exactly what type of career they are interested in. It helps to have someone on your team that knows and appreciates what you have to offer. In a tight job market, you can’t put a price on that.

    As for employers – why hire veterans? Values. When you hire a soldier, you get leadership, discipline, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, and courage. An employer couldn’t ask for more. If you haven’t ever hired a veteran, you should see the difference for yourself. A soldier is a different type of employee.

    To ask Craig a question, please complete the form below.

    1. Sounds like your typical conman that scams tax payers. Like I said earlier, theres thousands of these guys.

      Many claim military background but when you start digging into their backgrounds you’ll likely find that they never served, got dishonorably discharged or have multiple felony records.

      Some arent even American. I wouldn’t be surprised if this Craig “Fury” is really “Vladimir Kandinsky” or some variation like that.

      FULLERTON DONT LET THE DOPES IN CITY COUNCIL GIVE YOUR TAX MONEY TO THIS GUY!

  58. Reality Is :
    Cops don’t riot. I don’t think anyone will riot.

    If for some reason, no charges are brought on any of the police there will certainly be civil unrest. To think otherwise is ridiculous.

  59. Some things in Craig Fury’s background make absolutely zero sense. I was also in the military (Air Force) and if this guy was studying to be a “neurosurgeon”, how did he end up being in the military police officer, which in the U.S. Air Force, was referred to as a “German Shepard with a beret” or a “rivet counter”. Military Police were basically similar to civilian security guards, in that they basically were responsible for guarding the airfield and the planes on them. Additionally, the ASVAB scores, or tests that places recruits in different career fields, was also the lowest for M.P.’s? Something doesn’t add up?

  60. Erin :
    I have a better picture of this guy.. Let me know if you need it.. I’m the one who followed this guy all the way back to the FPD.. He was a complete ASS!

    In what way was he an “ass?” I’m not being sarcastic, just honest.
    Please explain.

  61. fullerton lover :
    Some things in Craig Fury’s background make absolutely zero sense. I was also in the military (Air Force) and if this guy was studying to be a “neurosurgeon”, how did he end up being in the military police officer, which in the U.S. Air Force, was referred to as a “German Shepard with a beret” or a “rivet counter”. Military Police were basically similar to civilian security guards, in that they basically were responsible for guarding the airfield and the planes on them. Additionally, the ASVAB scores, or tests that places recruits in different career fields, was also the lowest for M.P.’s? Something doesn’t add up?

    Agreed. The “neurosurgeon” comment threw me off the rails.

  62. Jeffrey Castaline :
    This is not to defend any of the officers, but in any military style organization, like a police department, seniority carries tremendous weight between members of the group.
    If those who actually did the beating that caused Kelly’s death were senior officers, younger officers are at a disadvantage. It is drilled into them again and agin that they are to do only what their superiors tell them to do. It’s like wearing mental handcuffs.
    I’m not saying it excuses anything, but if a younger officer disobeys his superior who, as it has been shown was behaving badly and illegally (battery) in the ‘knocking the phone out of someone’s hand’ video, he, or she, could very well find themselves posted to duty in a dangerous area with no backup support after that. It does happen.
    Young officers have it beaten into them that they must always obey their superiors.
    Part of one video was of a young officer telling people to stay back. People weren’t listening and you could see he was frustrated, but he behaved well, didn’t yell or swear, didn’t threaten, he just put his body between the spectators and the other officers as a barrier and from what I could see he did his very difficult job as best he could.
    I think the situation he found himself in had him scared through and through.
    I hope he wasn’t involved in the actual beating.

    Thank you for this post.

    So very true about how senior assholes can destroy a young cadets/recruits career with the greatest of ease if they wanted or were given reason to.

  63. I totally agree with you that the culture of blindly following what your big brother always tells you to do will ALWAYs cause the younger brother grief, and is a prime breeding ground for bullying to take root, and will start crossing over to the civilians they are supposed to be serving.

  64. Copy that. Understood.

    merijoe#1 :
    RI-ALL those that were there were accomplices just like if i just drove the getaway car in a murder but didnt do the actual deed, would be-
    and guess what? I would be punished for that. I stand by my conviction-they’re ALL guilty and should be prosecuted in a murder-and I hope they are. Someone could have said stop but didnt, someone could have stopped it, but didnt, Just as Guilty and I hope the judge sees that too- theres nothing more to it. Cops are not above the law-though they think they are and the shit you said about Kelly deserving this cause he resisted and the shit you said and contine to say about his father were nothing less then cruel, heartless and have nada to do with the fact that this man was beaten to death, the fact that you keep eluding to this point shows me what a monster you are- you are not fooling me you vicious demon-and what goes around, comes around

  65. Did I say now I haven’t seen the video?

    I’ve never changed my stance a bit. You are just one of those people that have a made up mind that will never change. I realized that weeks ago. All good.

    I’ve said many times I have my own feelings about Ron Thomas. I’ve said many times I look at this whole thing as 3 separate issues. Kelly Thomas. Ron Thomas. Fullerton City Council and Politics.

    So keep babbling and making things up. I’ve also said that many times that people with a cause tend to make things up just to get a rise out of their followers. Keep up the good work Mister Xer.

    Xer :
    ‘Reality Is’ a phony.
    I do believe this is the second lie I’ve caught you in, or third? Don’t know ’cause I don’t bother keeping files on you or anyone else. Pretty sure the NSA does that anyway. Several weeks ago you bragged you had seen the video the FPD and DA have kept from the Fullerton citizens, (but not the criminals). You said, and to the best of my recollection, I quote, “I’ve seen the video and there is nothing on it to indicate the police broke any laws [during Kelly Thomas’ murder].”
    Since your initial claim you changed your story to basically the one you regurgitate now, “Yes, I know [Kelly] was killed. I know it involved the cops. I also know how it all went down, …I think charges will be brought on the [two] [cops] that did wrong. I don’t think all 6 cops did wrong.” Yes, I recall for the last couple weeks your story has been ‘two cops will probably be charged,’ but that was not your initial claim. It seems I called someone a liar my first year online, but you are only the second person I recall having called that (online). It is not a word I use often, online or off, not even for GWB, or Barack Obama. Guess you’re just ‘special.’
    Of course there is another lie you like to spread about Ron Thomas being responsible for the FPD killing Kelly by “kicking his son to the curb” because [you allege] he didn’t love him. We both are aware you are neither God, nor psychic, so could not possible know Ron’s heart. Actually you have spouted other gems here providing ample reason to call you a liar. It must be convenient in your line of work to be amoral.
    The only ‘facts’ you are interested in are the ones that support your lies, and like your story you change them when ever you chose to fit your agenda.

    1. “You are just one of those people that have a made up mind…

      That part is true, based on available evidence, I determined weeks ago that you are a propagandist. The evidence, your own posts, “made up [my] mind.”

      “…. that will never change.” As regards Kelly Thomas’ murder, that part is either a lie or simpleminded ignorance speaking. My mind has always been able to change with sufficient new evidence to support a new theory, and/or accept a proof. However, there has been no evidence within the last month that the FPD 6 did not murder a helpless Kelly, or that you can tell the truth, much less studiously avoid spreading untruths.

      That is the difference between having an open mind, and being a paid shill. If I could see the video and the video clearly showed Kelly Thomas was a genuine deadly threat to the officers I would retract everything I’ve said to the contrary. I have an open mind. On the other hand, if the video shows Kelly was unable to be a serious threat to the FPD’s safety and one or more of the FPD killed Kelly, I believe they are ALL responsible for the murder either through direct involvement, or by not actively attempting to stop the murder in progress, murder during commission of a felony.

      You claim to have seen the video, and initially said there was nothing to show wrongdoing by any FPD. Now, you say not all six are culpable (if they could have stopped the murder and chose not to, then we very much disagree). Your story will not change much if the video is released because you have a job to do. You have not the least bit of an open mind. You are a paid shill whose agenda is to spread disinformation in order to cause doubt about Kelly and the Thomas family while supporting the FPD, first to get murderous cops off, and second to minimize the financial loss to the City during the upcoming civil suit.

      Initially, you were trying to get all six ‘officers’ off the hook. It soon became evident that is impossible, so you begin cutting losses. You are an unethical phony, paid to do a job. My only “cause” is American Justice, something I was raised to believe in, and responsible policing in America’s cities and towns. For a short while I entertained a notion you were well-intentioned, but simply mistaken. Evidently, providing you the benefit of the doubt was an error. Sorry for that error.

  66. I was always able to spot the corporate spies who were sent to work in our building to monitor how well the buyout/takeover was being accepted by the employees. There have been two or three people at the protests, and the memorials that seemed to me to be using similar, very phony tactics to get information about peoples opinions. I asked one for his business card so I could talk ot him later. His business card looked bogus. Reality is they’re going to be out there trying to see who might cause trouble if an unfavorable announcement is made, or who the main organizers are.

  67. So it’s possible that the problem isn’t isolated to Fullerton?

    cite=”#commentbody-58799″>
    Xer :
    Interesting. I went to Seattle for the WTO protests mentioned in that link. We did not riot. We protested peacefully against the US government giving up American sovereign decision making to a foreign power, the World Trade Organization. We were not anti-American, nor anti-government. We were US Patriots protesting the United States Government giving to a foreign power what our Forefathers fought the War on Independence to claim from King George.
    We even had a Congress-critter or two speak there. Saw and listened to them myself firsthand (recorded it on my Handicam). There were artistic performances in a downtown church, intellectual speeches given, public prayers, and a slow peaceful walk in the street afterward down to the King Dome (sports stadium–no longer there). No violence on our part at all! Completely NON-violent PEACEFUL protest. The Seattle Police, however, had a lot of brand new riot gear they were itching to try out and they DID riot! The damned anarchists may have provided SPD initial excuse by spray painting graffiti on a couple cop cars, and breaking a Starbucks store window, but the police took it to the next level, so the anarchists returned tit-for-tat.
    The police are supposed to be the responsible ones, but they kept escalating the situation until they were completely out of control and attacking anyone on the streets of Seattle both downtown and up on Capital Hill. I have never been more disappointed in the media. They were totally government stooges during that brutal crackdown on our Constitutional Rights of Free Assembly and Free Speech.
    The Seattle Police were out of control! If armed armored testosterone hyped-up goons attacking everyone they see including innocent civilians isn’t rioting, what is it? Oh I see, it isn’t rioting when the GOVERNMENT indiscriminately attacks peaceful innocents? Perhaps that is correct, but then it would be rightly called OPPRESSION wouldn’t it? Rioting police or government oppression, take your pick.
    People, at Justice for Kelly protests, please understand why every weekend I remind you to be careful and give the insane thugs NO excuse to attack you. So far the OC DA is sitting on his thumbs. Until he, or the Feds press/es charges the FPD has no reason to believe they will be held accountable for their actions. jmho. Remain vigilant, remain calm.
    Peace.
    Reality Is, you are a quack/crank. Either you are an intentional LIAR or you are terribly ignorant and just pretend to be a cop. Either way you lost any right to respect a long time ago.

  68. I was also viewed as a “plant” a couple Saturday’s ago when I joined my daughter to protest, simply because I looked like an ordinary mother and I asked simple questions about the council members to better understand what the issues are and what is the truth. Getting just a tat paranoid are we??

  69. want to know if there is going to be a protest this saturday i will be there if so…………………………… justice for kelly…………………………

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