Murder. Manslaughter. Excessive Force.
Officer Manuel Ramos will be charged with second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter. Cpl. Jay Cicinelli will be charged with involuntary manslaughter and use of excessive force.
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Officer Manuel Ramos will be charged with second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter. Cpl. Jay Cicinelli will be charged with involuntary manslaughter and use of excessive force.
699 Replies to “Murder. Manslaughter. Excessive Force.”
hey guys, where is that loud mouth reality today, and jaynbond?
Right here. 🙂
NOTHING TO SAY FOR YOUR SHADY SELF?
what,s up reality to down in that BIG MOUTH HAHAAHHAHA.
Hey Reality, the party’s in your mouth. And we’re all comin’.
Slurp Slurp. Tastes great. Hold on I’m bailing out. I’ll be back in a few.
ADMIN, HAS ANYONE OBTAINED THE CRIMINAL COMPLAINTS FILED WITH THE COURT YET? I LOVE TO SEE THEM POSTED ON HERE.
THE PROTESTS MUST CONTINUE AND NOW NEED TO FOCUS ON RECALLING THOSE COMPLICIT IN THE COVER-UP OF THIS BRUTAL MURDER. WE WILL NOT REST UNTIL ALL RESPONSIBLE ARE CHARGED. THE PRESSURE NEEDS TO STAY ON AS NOW WE HAVE TO PUSH THE FEDS TO ACT.
WE ALSO NEED TO GET SOME MORE ARRESTS MADE.
Hey fedupwithmorons ur the moron! The DA and chief just bent over like bitches and took it from these couch critics who don’t know crap!
YO, CRACKHEAD, YOU COPPERS ARE GOING TO BE BENDING OVAH FOR YOUR BUBBAS REAL SOON!
will be there every satuday until further notice-in uniform
I WANT TO SEE THE CRIMINAL COMPLAINTS!
Front page news on CNN.com
HMMMMM, PAGE 6 OF THE PDF FILE SAYS THAT, WOLF TACKLKES KELLY TO THE GROUND WITH RAMOS, AND COMMENCED TO KNEE AND PUNCH KELLY…ALL OF THIS UNDER THE COLOR OF AUTHORITY! AND HE ISN’T BEING CHARGED?
OOOPS, SHOULD HAVE READ….TACKLED….
The DA is trying to minimize the blow back to his office. But the three officers who joined in knew what was going down because they have all done it before.
HAHAHA! Listen to the BS; Generally trust thousands from 26 agencies, good reason to (surely out of thousands you have more cause to suspect bad and criminal behavior), second to none Hard working cops (notice he did not use honest), where? All I’ve seen are childish morons with a gun and a badge.
With each officer receiving two charges I bet the charge, if found guilty, will be the lesser of the two.
I agree. It seems like Joseph Wolfe should be charged with something also as, at a minimum, he watched the beating and did nothing.
I’ve lost track. What’s happening with Ramos? Did he post bail? Is he really on sucide watch? There are some misstatements on Kelly’s FB Page so can you please maybe blog with todays date with the most recent information?
I’ve always wanted to be first.
I want them all fired NOW! Finish you job and Hurry the fuck up!
And Gerigos was on KFI saying the jury will most likely throw out Manny’s Murder charge, I say, bullshit
Don’t forget, there is still the federal civil rights case that carries more jail time.
WHEN OUT OF THE COUNTY JAIL SYSTEM, IT BECOMES PRISON BASED ON THE LENGHT OF SENTENCE. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRISON AND JAILS.
Once the FBI is on someones back, they stay there.
Good job Rakakaus! currently you can have my vote for reelection for doing a fine job.
Bullshit..if there was no video, that asshole would have covered the whole incident up….Rakakaus should go to prison as wee…..your statement of re-election reduces the whole matter to wallpaper.
I said “currently”.
Tony did a great job of poisoning the potential jury pool in OC. This will be just like Rodney King, and the trial will get moved outside the LA/OC media coverage area.
I’m thinking deal, no trial. There’s some pretty damning evidence there. My head is still swirling over how the other 4 could not imagine what they were doing was wrong. And what of the one watching the whole horrific beating who never did a damn thing to stop it? I will say Rackauckas looked like he was about to vomit reading his press report. He may actually be repulsed by those 6….
Mine too, good job D.A.!
THAT,S RIGHT AND THE PRISON STAY WILL BE A LIVEING HELL, YOU MIGHT SEE ONE OF THE KILLER COP,S EAT HIS GUN.
I don’t know…it seems like 80-85% of people (my own math, yes) think that what happened is awful. The other 15-20% troll around the internet spewing ignorant garbage. Hopefully the jury is made up of 100% of that 80-85%.
I will gladly serve on that jury!!
I wish Gerigos would represent Manny and Cincinelli. That would guarantee a conviction. 🙂
That was a very depressing interview with Gerigos.
MERI GERAGOS WANTS HIS TWO SECONDS OF PUNDIT TIME…HE IS NOTHING BUT A WORN OUT GAS BAG!
Garigos doesn’t know what he’s talking about. That’s his opinion. He even said he was surprised the cops were even charged because that usually doesn’t happen. So he was wrong there.
But, unfortunately it usually doesn’t happen. I thought wrongly, as it turns out, TR would no-file or charge real light. I’m glad to be wrong.
Is the union going to post bail for their morbidly obese Ramos?
And wazup with the one-eyed jackboot? Is he like working undercover as a Muslim terrorist? Or maybe he converted ahead of prison to set himself up inside. I would think a dude that looked like this would stand out at the beach.
In the OCR article photo, he is clean shaven and both are in jail clothes. My guess he was in hiding either looking like a terrorist or homeless himself during his paid administrative leave. Not hard to figure out why government is so broke. I hope he paid for his own shaving cream.
T-RACK TOLD RON THOMAS, NO PLEA BARGAINS, OR DISMISSING OF CHARGES! YEAH! THIS IS A START!
L.A. County wrestling with providing mental health services to released prisoners
Published: Sep 21, 2011 5:50 PM
Los Angeles County officials are scrambling to prepare for potentially thousands of low-level offenders who will require substance abuse and mental health services when the state releases them to county supervision in early October.
An estimated 9,000 parolees who served time for nonviolent, non-serious, non-sex offenses will be released to the supervision of Los Angeles County on Oct. 1. At least 30 percent of them will need help for substance use disorders, and a significant number also will have mental health disorders, officials said.
what ???this all is unbelievable!
Garigos doesn’t know what he’s talking about. That’s his opinion. He even said he was very surprised the cops were even charged because that usually doesn’t happen. ANY jury will do the right thing when they see the tape. When they see the facts.
Not severe enough but at least it’s something. Any word on the other four officers who did nothing to prevent the murder?
Not all 6 were on scene at the same time. They are not equally culpable, if culpable at all.
By the time the others had arrived the damage had been done.
THEY ARE CULPABLE IF THEY STOOD THERE WATCHING AND DID NOTHING TO STOP THE BLOODY MURDER.
They all hogtied him and dragged a critically injured man out in the middle of the street. The EMTs had to remove all that idiotic overkill just to treat provide basic life support.
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The officers do not have to be all there at the same time, in order for them to have violated some section of the penal code, or at the very least, violated their codes of professionalism so deeply, that they should lose their jobs tonight.An officer takes an oath and is legally obligated to protect life, and stop a crime if they witness one being perpetrated. If you roll up, and see your fellow officer bashing an unconsciouse person in the head, your legally obligated to assist that person, and protect their life. Remember…. Police officers although are given authority to enforce the California penal code, they also are subject to all sections of the CPC. I have witnessed fights being broken up by Fullerton officers in downtown fullerton. They intervened, because, they see two people fighting or see one person beating the crap out of somone and so they stop the assault. Police officers should do the same even when its their fellow officers being excessive.
Besides criminal cullpability, all officers involved should be fired, because they can no longer effectively execute their duties as police officers within the community of Fullerton. I certainly would not want to be stopped by an officer that I knew, simply stood by and watched as their fellow officers committed murder.
Hampton will probably be looking over his shoulder to see where his baggage is… Wonder how soon he will decide he can no longer work due to stress and must file for a disability retirement…
Well, he too may be recieving his disability in federal prison.
NOT IF WE CAN STOP IT HE WON’T! PRISON WILL TAKE CARE OF ALL OF HIS MEDICAL NEEDS, NO MONEY REQUIRED.
All those perks need to be stopped,
A referendum has to be put out to stop these back door exit plans and fast.
Civilian jobs are dieing on the vine, and these jerks are getting away with civilian money like thieves robbing a bank.
Apparently if you are a PEACE officer in Fullerton it is ok to WATCH as an innocent person gets beaten to death. We were just thrown 2 bones by the DA. He was forced to do something given there is so much evidence. Now he is a hero???? no
its not over-see you saturday
Thank you again for that. I was posting on the previous blog about my discontent concerning the DA’s explanation of Wolf’s involvement. I think Wolf should have stopped it if I understand the DA’s version of everything. What are your thoughts? What’s going on over there?
@ merijoe, I meant to say thank you for that “link”
Like i said before , as soon as these thugs end up in court it’s ………
Wolf never thought to ask what was going on? He just ASSumed? Yes Ramos incited the violence BUT Wolf and the other 4 had the responsibility to figure out and ASSess the situation. They grotesquely failed. I believe the other 4 will be charged by 1 or more of the other agencies investigating. They must be held accountable. Mr. Thomas did not die on his own volition.
My guess is that Wolfie is going to be a witness for the prosecution.
I was wondering- the DA said that Wolf removed himself from the situation- and took Kellys bag to the back of the car to inspect its content- it was at night- ever see a cop take a bag to the back of the car at night? No? they use the head lights and dispurse all the contents on the hood- did Wolf remove himself- to not be a witness?
I have bad news for you Maria.Ramos didn’t incite the incident, he DID THE MURDER! He was aided by Cicinelli and the other four did not stop it. They apparently showed up later.
THAT SLOB RAMOS COULDN’T EVEN DRESS APPROPRIATELY FOR COURT. WITH ALL THE MONEY HE MAKES, HE COULDN’T AFFORD A SUIT? SUCH DISRESPECT FOR THE COURT. HE WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF WEARING JAIL HOUSE FASHION STATEMENTS!
Im surprised he found something in his closet that fit other then his uniforms
I’ve seen you Merijoe. You are nothing to look at, truthfully you are pretty nasty looking. At least he has a closet and not a shopping cart.
You dumb f**k he was arrested in his attorneys office. He was told they wanted to talk to him and arrested him. You talk shit without knowing.
You loosers have’nt seen the tape and just continue to wish hate on all involved. This is America and most of you assholes only like our judicial system when it is beneficial to you and your small selfish worlds that you live in.
WHAT THE HELL IS A “LOOSER”?
I think it’s someone who have’nt finished schoooool.
Its a a stoopid person I think
Youuu are alll wroong. A looser is someone who is limber and loose and does stretching exercises, I think.
HEY WATCH, WHO THE FUCK TAUGHT YOU TO SPELL AND USE PUNCTUATION? IF YOU ARE A COP, I CAN TELL YOU’D BE WRITING SOME SORRY ASS REPORTS! LOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSER!
Please try to stay on point and cite facts to support whatever it is you’re trying to convey
Wow- seriously Mrs Ramos, you would figure you wouldnt be on this blog, you would be trying to get some cash to get your manny outta the pokey? Your priorities a little off? No wonder Manny is off kilter? Is it because you didnt breast feed? Lets see if you like our judicial system when you visit Manny this x-mas in prison.
You ate your spiteful words. How do you know if he was breast fed or not. Don’t be jealous you mother didn’t have enough milk for your big mouth.
The DA said no charges were being filed against them “at this time”. Seems to me that he is sending the other officers a very clear message- You better sing like a canary about what happened, including the the falsification of police reports, the cover-up, etc.
Those officers will lose their jobs regardless.
Yes they will loss their jobs, and will be sent to the union hall to wait for a job that won’t come.
They can easily go to other departments. It’s pathetic, but true. Look how Fullerton got the one-eyed jackboot LAPD reject.
ESPECIALLY DEPARTMENTS BACK EAST, THEY DON’T HAVE THE SAME CHECKS AND BALANCE SYSTEM THAT WE DO OUT HERE IN CALIF.
I want them band from the union! ALL 6 OF THEM!
Do your job and hurry the fuck up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Expell them from the union NOW!!!!!!!!
Do your jod as a business agent and drop their membership! And hurry up! your taking to long.
If the union defends these guys with tax money then the union can look forward to bills being written and a complete turnover in voting that will rip the rug right out from underneith it
History is in the making.
Expel them from the union???? what a moron! unions represent you, they dont expel you….. This isnt school where you can just be expelled… stupid!
All the unions need are a few guys in three piece suites to go up to them and tell them what needs to be said.
I perceived that as well- “at this time”. EVERY word he said was measured. He said it that way on purpose. When the video gets out people will be more outraged than ever and push for appropriate charges.
DISBAND THE UNION, REAGAN DID IT TO AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS!
And that, Reagan did.
I bet we end up with a libertarian president this time.
THERE ARE SEVERAL CHARGES THEY COULD DO “ADD CHARGE” FOR. PERJURY, MAYHEM, ASSAULT UNDER THE COLOR OF AUTHORITY, BATTERY, ASSAULT, TAKE YOUR PICK, THESE CLOWNS DID IT!
Whitaker is this you. You’ll get yours.
it is simply not enough sinceo nly two of 6 were charged. When the last two came upon the scene, they did nothing. They did not help, they chose to do nothing. When it was time for an investigation, they did nothing. Those last two should be charged as accessories since they aided by doing nothing to stop the slaughter.
Not all 6 were there when it started.
They arrived when the beating had already stopped.
Well, they may have to prove that in court.
probably would get killed a la j.f.k., better to allow more, more open and Concealed CARRYing of ARMS by ALL CITIZENS,
only thing that can counter FEAR is to be ARMED just like the dirty cop terrorists with “police powers.” THE ONLY WAY. more heavily ARMED citizenry.
did you see the tape? or are you just talking out of your ass like 80% of these other idiots?
It’s called aiding and abetting.
Crime doesn’t pay, and you can’t run from the long arm of the law.
Now ain’t that a bitch.
This is how Democracy works, they must of forgotten that they live in it, or may have forgotten their oath.
Did you see the tape? Did you and your badge licking pals come over and jack off to the snuff film huh? YOu keep telling us we are wrong…enlighten us-
Officer Joe Wolfe you should be charged too. You were only 14ft. and you knew EXACTLY what was going on. The D.A. did as little as possible to give a little satisfaction to the people and to the department.
Beware prosecutorial misconduct. beware mishandling of evidence. beware half-hearted prosecutions. BEWARE DOUBLE JEOPARDY. The feds don’t usually file charges until they have accomplices who have rolled over in exchange for immunity. Violation of Kellys’ civil rights is the only sure way these officers will ever see the inside of a jail. The DA was backed into a corner, and had little choice but to file charges. Don’t let that lull you back into a false sense of security/trust!
Don’t worry, it’s not. Acquittal rates are high for cops, who get top notch cop criminal defense specialists for free – the union covers it all. You would have to be a multi-millionaire to afford this kind of defense.
And I’ve always wondered if some tanking goes on with DAs in these cases. Kinda weird that he didn’t already have his prosecution team lined up. He said he hadn’t decided yet at the press conference. He seemed sincere about wanting convictions on the charges he brought.
Now it’s time for the public to get ahold of the underlying evidence so we can oversee our government. Somebody said “wait for the trial.”
Uh, no. This is not Canada. We have a First Amendment, and by trial time it is too late.
I got the impression videos and other (but maybe not all) materials will be released immediately.
The Uniion will not pay for their defense now that they have been charged with a crime.
Union doesn’t pay. Officers pay monthly for legal defense. They will be fully funded for their entire defense.
Ok, but for all intents and purposes it is through union dues. Bottom line as you know is that they get specialists in cop defense, and it is prepaid as some separate category from their union dues is not the poing. Reality is, the defense would run into the mid-six figures easy if you were paying retail in a “insurance plan” normal people can’t get. Maybe 7 figures. Es realidad, no?
Yes. Paid thru dues to Porac legal defense fund. My guess is this defense of both people will be $1-$2 million. Look at the Bart case and the Ivory Webb case.
Esta el realidad, Si. La Policia tiene mucho Problemos con no dinero. Corta El dinero y el hombres tiene no amigos.
I agree ratso, half hearted prosecution on the way. I want to see justice here, but we have to be proactive, not reactive. We have to anticipate their next move.
The DA argument of a ‘menacing’ act, showing 2 fists, etc.. The jury won’t buy it. Ramos will just say he was subduing the suspect. Cicinelli can just point to the coroner’s report as proof that his actions were not the cause of death.
I sure hope some good prosecutors are put on the case, because the DA didn’t seem very convincing.
Filing a false report? Is that a criminal offense?
Yeah, in theory. In practice, no. The jails would be full of cops if that happened.
IT SURE THE HELL WAS WHEN I WAS DOING LAW ENFORCEMENT STUFF! IT’S CALLED PERJURY?
The truth is standing on its own today. Although the charges are not serious enough, incredibly they were filed IN SPITE OF THE ATTEMPTED COVER UP. To think these devils thought they could get away with this. Do they not realize there are over 100,000 people in Fullerton and most people stopped drinking to kool-aid around the end of July? Time to clean out city hall.
And disband the fpd.
Ok. Seriously. Maybe not enough, but its something, and its serious.
I watched the presser on KTLA. Tony Rackauckas is clearly emotionally involved in Kelly’s case. Body language, choice of words, method of speech; that video must be off the hook terrible. We may never see it.
My opinion of the OCDA ramped up a little after today’s press conference.
too bad 1% can’t manage to show up for the protests
We need more than demonstrations. In this day and age, we need fundraising for a PAC or similar group opposed to police abuse to lobby for change. Nothing against demonstrations, but it’s not the ’70s and modern political reality demands we compete against powerful police unions and political whores to achieve anything beyond token cases here and there.
IT WILL COME OUT IN COURT HOPEFULLY. MANY THINGS WILL.
Not good enough. I’m still protesting on Saturdays. Hopefully, the two charged will be remanded into custody today with $1,000,000 bail each.
Im right there with you, JUSTICE FOR KELLY
WE NEED AT LEAST TWO MORE ARRESTED, WOLF AND HAMPTON. THEY WERE INVOLVED, AND WE KNOW BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT THE WOLF WAS BECAUSE T-RACK SAID SO. WE KEEP THE PRESSURE ON FOR THEIR ARRESTS.
arrest hampton for what? were you there? have you seen the tape? Answer “NO” you are just another dumb ass idiot with the opinion of an asshole!
All of the cops who were there could’ve stopped the killing. They stood by and allowed it to happen. So they need to be arrested and indicted. If you defend these POS cops, then YOU are the a$$hole.
The FPD has a history of corruption and a culture of violence which in turn, endangers a democratic society.
“Knowledge is the most democratic source of power.”
You sound bitter…Does someone need a hug?
IT’S NOT OVER, TIL, IT’S OVER!
Did anyone else cry at the description of the beating? I dont think I could handle seeing the pole video at the depot
It’s already nationwide, MJ. The press conference will be viral by tomorrow morning.
The video must be terrible.
JUSTICE FOR KELLY THOMAS
I did Merijoe. I am so upset. I’m still shaking. WHY? Why did Ramos think it was OK to treat another human being this way?
Maybe because he’s a racist.
Someone needs find out if racism was a factor in Kelly’s death.
I feel heartsick, soul-sick.
By your use of language on this site you surprise me
I’m sure they’re already out on bail, already. Bail paid for by the police union’s legal fund, no doubt. As will both guys’ legal defense.
Arraignment is this afternoon. 2:00pm, C55 at Santa Ana.
Cincinelli is out on bail. He posted the $25k almost immediately. Ramos has a $1million bond. It wasn’t clear whether or not he posted but I suspect by now, he has.
I guess the last place to look for Justice is the OC da office. Surprised no, pissed yes!
Thank you Tony Bushala, all of you at FFFF and all the others that have been fighting for justice in this case.
We would not have seen this day if it were not for the efforts of all of you.
I am proud of all of you.
I second that. Thanks from the other side of the country for giving all of us hope who have been abused by the men and women with badges and guns.
I third that! Thank you FFFF
Anybody upset the charges are not serious enough needs to remember what just happened. A cop was charged with murder. Yes, a cop.
It’s like hell just froze over at the FPD.
You are correct, sir. But there needs to be more to come.
Start by pushing referendums that bust up the expensive cost of having a police force.
It is expensive because outside intrests are grabbing your taxes.
Outside intrests look upon the city as a tax farm.
I am upset that t. rack. didn’t file charges for at least second degree murder on cyclops considering how horrible of a beat down he described at this mans hands…even if the defense got it thrown out as some lame ass heat of the moment thing then at least the manslaughter would most likely stick…just charging manslaughter gives him a chance to get off on lesser charges than that…and he was the one doing the face smashing
At Fullerton’s City Hall, City Manager Joe Felz and three council members watched the district attorney’s news conference on live television with Michael Gennaco, an independent investigator hired by the city.
“We are delighted this has come forth,” Mayor F. Richard Jones said. “The DA has done an outstanding job of presenting this…. he was very succinct and clear…. It’s a tragedy for the officers, for the Thomas family and for the city.”
Jones, a medical doctor, said it was time for the healing process to begin. When asked what should happen to the officers, he praised the United States’ process of justice and said: “I have to wait for things to progress.”
Capt. Kevin Hamilton, the acting chief of the police department, was scheduled to address the media this afternoon.
Tragedy for which officers?
Yeah, that was the most disgusting part of the comments. Look at the order he lists the sufferers of tragedy: FIRST for the Officers, THEN for the family. And not at all for Kelly.
indeed. heehaw needs to go NOW
A tradgey for the officers? Seriously? Did he not HEAR the DA’s version of events? THE OFFICERS CAUSED THIS!!!!
Jones is an MD????? CAN”T even picture it. Not smart enough to keep his mouth shut or do the right thing and obviously waaaaaay to hot-headed.
T-RACK HASN’T GONE FAR ENOUGH!
Im taking suggestions for my new protest sign verbiage-any?
Ramos = vamos.
Tu habla Espanol?
En tiempo, manana, todo bien agui con el cuidad.
BAG ON WOLF AND HAMPTON THAT SHOULD MAKE EM CRY!
the charges make sense stay vigilant and let courts take their course, its the civilized way.
After the Waco massacre the courts failed and we all know what the answer was by a man who decided that the law was corrupt.
we must abide by the law
See, like Waco, once the feds are on their back, they don’t let go.
I want Taser reports
sequence in which they were fired also
I want all DARs made public
We need a real DA if the other 4 got off?
this is from steve @kfi
Wednesday, September 21, 2011
Kelly Thomas Charges
SANTA ANA, Calif. (AP) _ Two police officers were charged Wednesday in the death of a mentally ill homeless man in Southern California who was beaten and repeatedly shocked with a stun gun during his arrest, authorities said.
Officer Manuel Ramos was charged with one count each of second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter in the death of 37-year-old Kelly Thomas after a violent confrontation on July 5 with officers, Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas said at a news conference.
Police Cpl. Jay Cicinelli was charged with one count each of involuntary manslaughter and excessive force, he said.
Rackauckas said a review of the evidence showed Thomas was acting “in self-defense, in pain and in a state of panic.”
“His numerous pleas of `I’m sorry,’ `I can’t breathe,’ `Help Dad’ (were) all to no avail. Screams, loud screams, didn’t help,” the prosecutor said.
The prosecutor said police officers have a right to use reasonable force in the performance of a lawful duty but citizens have a right to self-defense, even against the police.
Lorie Fridell, an associate professor of criminology at the University of South Florida, said it is highly unusual for a police officer to be charged with murder.
“It is quite appropriate in such cases to hold officers to account,” Fridell said. “Often, however prosecutors will give officers the benefit of the doubt.”
Ron Thomas, Kelly Thomas’ father, said he was pleased with the charges but still suffers every day as a result of his son’s death.
“That’s exactly what I hoped for,” Ron Thomas said of the charges.. “It makes me feel fantastic that this is happening, it’s the justice we need.”
Bill Hadden, an attorney representing Cincinelli, didn’t immediately return a call for comment. A call to a home number for Ramos rang unanswered.
I heard Ramos arraignment is @ 2:00 today. I wouldn’t be surprised at a no bail decision under the auspices of keeping him in protective custody.
Looks like the Police Union, or whatever it’s called, will be putting up both bails. SHAME.
A union, or mafia family?
Yep and union money=tax payer money
And we pay for it.
Should be two 1st degree capital murder and four 2nd degree murders. If it was six Citizens doing the same to a ‘police’ officer they would all be charged with 1st degree murder. The acts of putting on gloves to ‘f’ up Kelly and 16 minutes after confirming he had no stolen property in or on his person in addition to the pre-knowledge that Kelly was mentally ill demands these charges. Also the police cruiser tape was not referenced (that i heard) and the ‘call’ that started all of this was not discussed. To me (a layman) it seems like a contract hit between a business owner who didn’t like Kelly hanging out in the public area near his business and the FPD that likes to beat, molest and trump up charges on innocent people.
I agree. It’s obvious to everyone, except for the Wolves who are guarding the hen house.
“Should be two 1st degree capital murder and four 2nd degree murders.”
Not if you want convictiona resulting in significant prison time. Gotta go with a provable theory of the case or the cops walk.
“If it was six Citizens doing the same…”
It was not. They are cops, pre-authorized by us to use deadly force when they deem necessary. This is a very different situation than if 6 citizens did the same.
I’ve yet to see you write anything valuable.:(
Fortunately, others I actually respect seem to disagree. 🙂
Not when “they deem necessary,” government boot licker. In practice, you are close. It has to be objectively reasonably necessary. It’s not simply up to your masters in LE to determine.
Wow, I was close but still a government boot licker???!!!
Honestly, I was just trying to delineate the difference between civilians and cops in these matters, not worrying about being precise. It’s interesting how so many confuse personal opinion with objective observation… 🙁
This is the exact same thing as a gang of hoodlums rolling up on an armed off-duty police officer and beating him to death. Police have no more rights then the Citizens they serve and are actually held to a much higher standard then common folks because of the money and trust given them by the public.
Wait till Ramos plea bargains and throws the rat on the Slidebar’s owner for wetting his whistle. tit for tat. Its coming
This is a start Warriors. Keep up the pressure the world is watching and learning as we push forward with Liberty and Justice for ALL!!
This was a human rights atrocity and it happened on American soil!
Because the official cause of death was compression of the thorax (chest) which prevented Kelly from breathing, why are those cops not charged???
It was up to other officers on scene to push that fat f_ck off of Kelly.
Geragos didn’t help Scott Peterson too much did he? Didn’t he also have his fingers in the Michael Jackson pie as well?
Former police chief and CURRENT Council member Pat McKinley’s police department is done.
It’s time to restore TRUST.
I agree that McKinley is the real culprit. He hired those bad cops and created the culture of thuggery. That pussy Sellers just went along with the program since he got the big chief salary on top of his pension. He never gave a fuck about Fullerton. the whole compensation system breeds corruption. Death to public employee unions before they kill America
I want to address the COVER UP. Two cops got charged. What about officer Goodrich? He lied to the public all the way thru.
For me this was as much about the COVER UP as it was about the excessive force.
WHAT IS NEXT?
I want to know why rack only mentioned two video cameras? Weren’t more people videoing the incident? What about Bunny’s pics?
Officer charged in Kelly Thomas death was just doing his job, attorney says
Ramos’ attorney, John Barnett, said his client was simply doing his job under difficult conditions when he tried to restrain Thomas.
“Officer Ramos was confronted that evening with a non-compliant suspect with a history of violence,” Barnett said. “Officer Ramos had the responsibility and the duty to detain, restrain and arrest him.”
Barnett, who said he watched Orange County Dist. Atty. Tony Rackauckas’ news conference on television, said the district attorney had taken Ramos’ threats out of context.
“To characterize that as a justification for Kelly Thomas to leave betrays a complete lack of understanding as to what happens in the street,” Barnett said. “This was an attempt to use less force not more….That does not a murderer make.”
Barnett said the decision to file charges in the case would have a chilling effect on the way police officers perform their duties.
“Police officers who risk their lives daily because of violence directed at them on the streets now have to be concerned with being charged in the courtroom for simply performing their duties,” Barnett said.
Just shows the upside down morals & ethics of this rag.
How does that report show the upside down morals and ethics of the Los Angeles Times. They are reporting what the attorney representing this guy said. What is wrong with that?
Your’e right in this case boo, I misread this post. I will reserve my opinion of the Times though.
Good, maybe it will chill them enough to quit murdering innocent people. It would be way cool if we could ALL shake the shackles of this expensive and brutal police state off of us.
Barnett is going to have a tough time explaining away the “these hands are getting ready to fuck you up” quote attributed to Ramos as he was putting gloves on. There is a reason T-rack repeated the quote as many or more than a dozen times in his presentation this morning. It is this line from Ramos that is the foundation for T-Rack’s murder case against Ramos, as well as the explantion as to why others were not charged for aiding and abbeting the murder. If it can’t be shown, and apparently it can’t, that Wolfe or anyone else heard Ramos’ threat that changed Thomas’ status from that of a resisting suspect to a man legitimately fighting for his life, than the other officers can reasonably argue they were just doing their job in holding Thomas down. Cicinelli being an exception since video shows him delivering blows that amount to excessive force under PC 149, and those blows contributed to Thomas’s death, putting Cicinelli also on the hook for involuntary manslaughter.
These are provable charges for which the DA has a reasonable chance of obtaing convictions if the evidence is in line with what we heard fromT-rack this morning.
Interesting point outs
Agree with this analysis. Having that “fuck you up” line on tape is key to the case, why they could charge murder 2, and should end up convincing a jury that this was anything but “just doing his job.”
Simply performing their duties?????? He is one sick mf’er. Cops should be cognizant of how they perform their duties. You betcha they should be. NEWSFLASH they are not above the law. I wouldn’t be too worried about this defense lawyer. He’s obviously not too bright. Just because you say somethig, doesn’t make it so. I hate defense attorneys. Scumbags. Don’t confuse that with a person’s right to a defense. I’m talking about scumbags who will lie thru thier teeth and distort the truth/facts even when they’re right in front of everyone.
What the Times doing in here? Nobody reading THEIR blogs?
We need to keep the pressure up make sure the other four get some charges filed against them as well!
Why? Not all 4 deserve charges against them.
they stood and watched -thats not a “deserved” charge to you?
merijoe: “..they stood and watched -thats not a “deserved” charge to you?”
The point the DA made is that the other officers would argue they thought they were watching a legit takedown of a very resistant Kelly Thomas.
If prosecutors can’t prove the other officers knew of or heard the threat which changed Thomas from a resisting suspect to a man fighting for his life, then they can’t be charged for aiding and abetting in his murder.
Note that I obviously wish the other officers had intervened, but I can clearly see why prosecuting them for not having done so lies somwhere between extremely problematic and impossible.
The exception is Cicinelli, unlike the others aiding Ramos, he was caught on video delivering excessive force under PC 149, and the evidence shows he tased the shit out of Thomas five times, directly contributing to Thomas’ death.
well said Eye
Again. You keep taking whatever the DA says at face value, assuming like a kid believes a fairy tale. Why not admit the obvious. The DA made a political decision. Charges were certainly viable against Wolf and Hampton – especially Wolf. He could have gone for it. But their conduct is more in the realm of what abusive cops do all the time, and he needed to send a political message to them that they were safe.
I find it hard to believe you are so stupid as not to get this. You’ve been a DA booster since his non-interview by the OCR. You were correct about his filing serious charges against 2.
But we didn’t know back then how bad Wolf’s conduct was.
Whatever. When are we plebes that pay these government losers getting the video and other evidence. I thought the videos would be released at the time Ruckus had the press conference.
THEY HAVE A DUTY TO ACT, THAT’S WHY. IT’S NOT LIKE THEY ARE CIVILIANS WHO DO NOT HAVE THAT DUTY. COPS AND FIRE DUDES HAVE A DUTY TO PROTECT.
CIVILIANS WHO HAD STEPPED IN WOULD HAVE BEEN PROTECTED UNDER GOOD SAMARITAN LAWS.
WAKE UP WILL YOU AND LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THE LAW.
Actually, sworn peace officers do not have a duty to act or protect the public, and that position was determined by the US Supreme Court.
This is correct. In South v. Maryland the high court ruled that local law enforcement had no affirmative duty to protect individuals, but only a general duty to enforce the laws.
That may be true, but bludgeoning an innocent victim in the head EIGHT TIMES with the butt of a taser is a serious felony, and the others doing nothing to stop it (if they witnessed it — which they must have) is certainly criminal.
THEN WHAT DO WE NEED COPS FOR? WE CAN DO A BETTER JOB!
COURTS ALWAYS REVERSE THEMSELVES.
I remember hearing about that, and that affirms my theory on what law enforcement really is.
Security guards with guns.
The DA certainly sounded to me like a prosecutor who would be more than willing to charge the others with some type of crimes if the evidence was there. How about you?
You are either already married to this DA or want to be. He did better than expected and probably better than most. He is no big hero either. He had politics pulling from both sides and split the baby.
The first step to JUSTICE!!!!!
FPD, this is not over. We are not done yet. The DA didn’t address the attempted cover up & lies spewed by Goodrich. FBI, the citizens are counting on you to help us. I will be out there Saturday. Justice for Kelly! Justice for the citizens of Fullerton!
From what the DA said, it sounds like the audio from the bus depot was clear. So now, I want to know why Kelly was approached in the first place by Ramos. Did Ramos EVER say anything about cars being broken into? I don’t think so. I think the audio would prove that the ENTIRE incident was instigated by Ramos just to fuck with Kelly for no reason.
Ramos is an evil human being!
Great point and isn’t 16 minutes enough to ‘detain’ and search a nap sack. And who made this call to FPD? No mention of that either. Very strange. On all those news shows and cop shows they have the telephone recordings and/or transcripts for public consumption. Why not here?
Someone already obtained the transcript from that night. The call isn’t there. Period.
What was produced was the record of actual crimes reported, which proved nothing important to this case.
As Gonzo, Esq. pointed out at the time, what one would need to see is the ‘call log,’ the record of all calls to the FPD that night, including a call that might have gone, “Hi, this is the manager of the Slidebar, a customer reported seeing someone looking into cars in the parking lot, can you send somebody over?”
Again, perhaps this will come out at trial, but if I were trying a difficult and challenging case hoping to put police officers in prison, I would definitely try to avoid each and every one of these sideshows and stay focused on presenting a streamlined case, with as little as possible for sympathtic-to- cops OC jurors to hang their hat on for aquittal.
IT WAS THE CALL LOG THAT WAS OBTAINED. DUMBASS. i’M SOOOOOO TIRED OF YOUR IDIOTIC POSTS!
I made the request. I requested both dispatch records and burglary reports for vehicles being burglarized in the area. Each request states “If my request is denied in whole or part, I ask that you justify all deletions by reference to specific excemptions of the act.” They did not tell me of any exemptions, yet the DA report says there was a phone call. Someone is lying here…
why must you insist on writing and sounding like a narrcisitic know it all- I wouldnt mind if only you didnt look so foolish with you ridiculous laughable pile o crap you think people are going to buy because you “uses” big words
Perhaps this will come out at trial.
Worth considering though is that producers of TV shows are in the business of entertaining with drama, not just in presenting what is important to the case.
LOOK UP THE CRIME STATS ON THE PD WEBSITE. THEIR ICONS DEPICT ALOT OF AUTO BURGS AROUND THE BUS TERMINAL BUT THIS DOES NOT MESH WITH THE TWO REPORTS OF CAT CONVERTOR THEFTS FROM THE TERMINAL. SO, SAY THERE WERE 10 AUTO BURGS IN THE MONTH OF JUNE, WHY DID THEY TURN OVER ONLY 2 REPORTS THAT WERE NOT AUTO BURGS, BUT GRAND THEFTS? YOU HAVE TO INVESTIGATE THEIR BS MORE CLOSELY COMPARE IT TO WHAT IS KNOWN AND TO THE UNKNOWN.
YOU ARE FUCKING RIGHT. THIS IS TO BIG AND GROWING WITH RECALLS AND WORLD WIDE INTEREST. THE OTHER COPS WATCHED IT CONTINUE AND DID NOTHING FIRE THEM AND TAKE THEIR PENSIONS.
ANIMALS WHO WILL SEEK REVENGE
Mixed emotions. I guess we can call this a step in the right direction, but I’ sure would’ve liked to see more.
Now watch the defense move for a change of venue, probably to more conservative / law-and-order-minded S. OC. They’ll have a reasonable argument that the potential jury pool in N. OC is tainted.
Wouldn’t a change of venue typically be to another County rather than to a specific area within the County? I’m hoping that is the case. Because, frankly, unless they move this thing to Marin County, there isn’t really another County that is more conservative than OC.
You’re right. This is what happens when I type before fully thinking about what I’m saying.
I don’t know if I’m right or not, Gonz. I don’t practice criminal law. But I would imagine that the venue would be the Superior Court which is by County. Let them take this to LA County. Hell, take it up to SF. Let’s see how well a beating like this sits with the not-so-conservative crowds in those Counties. If anything, defense counsel should want to keep it here in OC. A non-scientific sampling of the potential local jury pool can be found in the race-baiting, hillbilly-homophobe, teabagging birther, anti-immigrant comment section of our local fishwrap: the acclaimed OC Register
I think that San Diego or Fresno could pose problems for a conviction. If I wanted a change of venue, I would pick Santa Clara or Sacramento for fairness.
We are right.
The cops are murderers.
Please continue to put pressure. Need to see the original reports by all six officers, before the beating/death and pictures were made public. Did they tell the truth about what happened or did they falsify their reports? Did they report misconduct of any and all kind? If no, then seems there should be charges that can stem from that.
Two charged officially; the other four are already condemned as cowards by the community. They do not deserve to wear the FPD badge. They serve in shame and are forever branded with a big yellow “C”.
In my opinion, what is next is to focus on this recall. A very fast and very successful signature gathering campaign leading to a stand-alone election in April or May. We are extremely confident that will result in devastation at the polls for these three councilmen who were led by the leash through this episode by the city attorney. Three men who are variously culpable for the evolution of a police department which clearly has lost control in light of the number of behavioral issues that have emerged just in this past year.
This recall is essentially our only statutorily available mechanism to FORCE change. There will be winners and losers and we should now redouble our efforts in light of the fact that the worst case scenario has been confirmed. Intentional murder of an innocent man by a cop under the color of authority. McKinley, Bankhead and Jones minimally were briefed on the contents of that video and allowed those cops to remain on the street until the blogosphere and protestors forced their hands. Our signature gatherers have to prepare themselves for the hollow man’s argument of, “See, waiting was the right thing to do. The bad cops are going to be prosecuted and everything can go back to normal.” Not with the same leaders who put the police unions ahead of the citizens it can’t….
Chris, make sure to use the Kentucky Fried Chicken’s tirade last night and the other stooges who sat and watched it-and that would include Quick-Silva
I agree with Chris Thompson. Bankhead, McKinley and Jones must immediately be removed from their political office. If we target and isolate these three corrupt city council members for recall then their hanger-ons also will be removed. An analogy is pull the evil spiders off their webs and their evil web collapses
Saw you speak last night. Rational and focused. Fight the good fight. You are doing an OUTSTANDING job. I never realized what you all have had to put up with until I witnessed Jones’ tirade. Disgraceful. Go get’em.
Chris Thompson wrote: “In my opinion, what is next is to focus on this recall.”
Critics would say this is why FFF got involved advocating for justice in the first place, as a political vehicle.
And no Chris, the recall is not the only “available mechanism to FORCE change.” You see there are these things called regular elections…
The slower the better, right. For a person that worships entrenched politiciahns.
Recall elections are designed for unanticipated problems that come up long before the re-election date. No time like the present to throw out bums.
@EyeNeverSayNo: the next vote for McKinley and Bankhead is November 2014. Jones is up November 2012. I think its fair to say that is an unreasonable wait for a populace to remove a unwanted council member.
Point taken Erik. Thanks for the info.
Eye- Critics would say, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Sorry to offend but it sure seems, well if not unseemly than maybe slightly smarmy to come on here on the very day history was made in OC and even all of So Cal, a day that will live in judicial infamy, and say ‘okay now it’s time to focus on this blog’s own micro-local issue.’
I think you’re missing the bigger picture here.
The Kelly Thomas murder (we can legally call it that now, right?) was just the most horrendous manifestation of Fullerton’s longstanding problem with police brutality and police misconduct.
The three city council members Jones, Bankhead and McKinley are key in the creation of this goon squad and its mentality. They either encouraged this or looked the other way. I’m thinking encouraged. Even if they hadn’t, they would still be culpable just because of their authority in hiring the Chief of Police.
The citizens of Fullerton sleep only marginally safer in our beds tonight. The sad reality is that police abuse by the FPD is not limited to just one, or two, or even six officers. That is the open secret that is soon not even going to be a secret.
However, as each new brutality victim emerges and files suit, there is no administrative body beyond Internal Affairs (a joke in FPD if there ever was one) and the City Council to DO SOMETHING about all of these other cases.
That is why we need a city council who will take dramatic and drastic actions to rid the City of corruption and police brutality. That might even be to abolish the FPD – and while I don’t know what the consequences of that would be – I LOVE the message it sends:
Mess with your citizens too much and we will fire each and every one of you.
That is why Chris is right and this is not a micro-local issue. Every other town out there needs to be doing the same thing. Then it is as macro an issue as you can get.
Do you honestly believe that there are not at least 95% of the registered voters in the city of Fullerton will sign the petition to recall these three horses asses before their terms expires in 2014?
I’d be willing to bet you your blog name and/or anything else that you’d care to wager that the recall campaign will have it’s 10.500 verified signatures gathered by Halloween.
It’s time to put up or shut up.
YOU ARE RIGHT THIS ISSUE NEEDS TO BE PROTESTED BY THE PUBLIC BEFORE A DEAL IS QUIETLY DELIVERED.
“Barnett said the decision to file charges in the case would have a chilling effect on the way police officers perform their duties.”
Well, one can only hope that this WILL have a “chilling effect” and that it will DETER officers from their cavalier and routine use of excessive force, brutality and believing that they can murder with impunity.
We must not let our guard down. The Wolves are still guarding the hen house.
If cops are so worried about the “chilling effect” then they need to do a better job of policing themselves. That means if your fellow officers are pulling some sh!t like this, you need to speak up and blow the whistle. Because they are hurting you and making your job tougher to do. That is what kills me about this whole situation. Bad enough that it happened. So much worse that there weren’t cops coming out of the woodwork to distance themselves from the bad apples and even “rat” on their fellow cops. The perception is that this is code blue and that this was a cover up. Regardless of whether the Feds or anyone else ever finds that it was, perception is reality.
“Police officers who risk their lives daily because of violence directed at them on the streets now have to be concerned with being charged in the courtroom for simply performing their duties,” Barnett said.”
Yes, as if Kelly Thomas, who was pinned down, mercilessly beaten, Tasered, and sat on by several officers for 15 minutes, and ultimately beaten to death, was EVER a threat to them!! Kelly Thomas was on the ground, not able to move, and they STILL allowed the beating to CONTINUE UNABATED! They are ALL GUILTY.
In their minds, “Simply performing their duties” includes depriving citizens of their constitutional rights, use of excessive force, torture and cold blooded murder!!
THAT’S WHY THE BATTLE NEEDS TO GO TO THE DA;S OFFICE NOW!
We wouldn’t be on this blog if were not for Ramos getting a mishappen pleasure out of taunting, and killing a harmless homeless guy.
Ramos looks like the kind of guy that gets sexual pleasure out of stuff like that.
The union should send a few suits down to go have a little talk with him, and have him own up to his miss deeds, and make a public apology, and beg the public for forgiveness.
That will take all the presure off.
THEY WILL ALL DO A CHIEF SELLER’S AND SCREW WITH DISABILITY PACKAGES AND FIND JOBS SOMEWHERE ELSE. THEY WILL HAVE THE LAST LAUGH.
No, you are wrong, this will follow them around for the rest of their lives, for technology is closing in on everyone, especialy them.
This one thought he had the last laugh until that young lady googled his name. Now he’s rotting in a Peruvian jail.
Maybe we can get obama to buy everyone a beer.
A question; will the murdering pigs get to keep their pensions?
Does the chief pig on medical leave get a free pass?
These public servants are actually servants of Satan.
Ramos is being used as a scapegoat and fall guy to take the heat off of the others. Yes, he started the feeding frenzy, but at least three or four others took part in the whole event, and are equally repsonsible. And the one-eyed cop bashed Kelly’s face in with a taser (8 times, and tasered him 4 times) and all he gets is a manslaughter charge? This is all BS! If we let this go like they want us to Kenton Hampton will soon be back out on the streets preying on citizens.
In the Oscar Grant filmed fatal shooting, BART officer Johannes Mehserle was charged with 2nd degree murder, convicted of involuntary manslaughter and was sentenced to 2 years only to be released much earlier. (For perspective) I don’t expect these two out of the six will serve much time if convicted of anything.
Excellent point. Hate to agree, but it is true. We should not get our hopes set so high. A charge is not a conviction. The DA still has to prove its case and it only takes one whack-job juror to screw it all up.
Start writing referendums. Start closing the loop holes.
We are having back to back events taking place that are pushing the public to adopt new laws, and to rescinding old ones.
Society has to undo the damage current policies are creating and need to bring new policies into real time.
Ramos is pleading not guilty because tax payer money is a factor.
What would happen if money was taken out of the equation and replaced with pure information?
Ramos risks facing the maximum penalty if he pleads not guilty.
what happened to Wolfe?
Just saw Ron on TV after meeting with the DA. My heart breaks for him and his family.
I heard Ron Thomas this morning on TV before the DA’s announcement that he was “certain” there would be a ‘no file’ by the DA. When asked why, he repeated the mantra that the “DA has a long history of never prosecuting cops.” I really felt bad for him that he had bought into this erroneous assertion, primarily promulgated by this site, and never retracted, even as it was shown to be false.
Perhaps if Mr. Thomas had known the truth his heart would have been spared the pain this ‘certain’ knowledge undoubtedly gave him.
I admire that man very much.
How long were these murderers still on duty after they killed Kelly Thomas? Almost a month thanks to our city leadership.
Probably the single best argument I’ve heard here for new city leaders.
This is what this blog has been saying since Day 1. Go back and read it. The reason we are seeing charges filed today is because of the persistence of Ron Thomas but also because of this blog, which first published the photos of Kelly in the hospital and ran story after story on the murder. Not to mention FFFF has been focusing on the crimes of the FPD since log before Kelly was killed. Check your history Eye.
JT- he just won’t stop posting bullshit on top of bullshit even when he is proven wrong. It makes him look Soooo credible:) Thanks for the truth/proof.
Oh yeah, I get that Jt, note that I didn’t congratulate J. Donut for being original, merely noting that what he and others have observed is indeed the single best argument I’ve read on here for new city leaders. Was trying to keep it positive, sorry if that wasn’t clear.
Barnett said the decision to file charges in the case would have a chilling effect on the way police officers perform their duties.
We can only hope it will.
Exactly. The more chilling, the better.
I SAY WE KEEP PROTESTING UNTIL WOLF AND HAMPTON GET CHARGES FILED AGAINST THEM, TAKE IT TO THE DA’S OFFICE THOUGH!
I know Barnett is spewing that BS because he’s being paid to defend.
There’s no way he can believe it himself though.
is Ramos and Cici the one eyed monster still on paid leave?
Great question. I would think not after being formally charged and arraigned, but with police union power I suppose it is possible.
t/rack is going to be on kfi at 1:20 , bill caroll may get some of your answers from him…
I feel sick right now–physically, emotionally, and spiritually sick. They beat a helpless and innocent man to death while he was begging for mercy. Others stood by and watched while a man was beaten to death. And then they lied and covered up and attacked and cast aspersions on Kelly and his family. How do we live with this?
Kelly, I am so sorry.
blessusall – You stated exactly the way I feel. I am so broken-hearted!
It’s sick, It would be nice to think human beings are not capable of this, but they are, and of doing worse.
I just saw the booking photos on the OCR of Ramos and Ciccinelli. Evil
Where did you see these photos?
Sorry, I see them
And fat. Looks like Ramos loves his burritos & beans.
and krispie kremes
I just saw both photos a few minutes ago. Just Ramos and Ciccinelli? What about the other 4 pork rinds who were involved? Watching this from out of state; it’s on MSNBC headlines.
Justice for Kelley Thomas!
Kelly Thomas’ stepmother says other officers should be charged
Wow, after reading the list of what each of them did to Kelly, I’m confused as to why Cicinelli wasn’t charged with more.
After comparing the two conduct reports I find myself asking why Cicinelli doesn’t have at least a 2nd degree murder charge. Judging by the DA description, he was incredibly more violent.
SISSYNELLI PROBABLY GOT THE LESSER CHARGE BECAUSE HE WASN’T THE INSTIGATOR! HE WAS THE “CLOSER”.
cyclops is one UGLY mother fucker.
Physical description of “Manatee” Ramos: Has a large, double-nostriled snout. The upper lip is large and flexible, with whiskers
Kelly Thomas: Councilman wants more details on fatal beating
If six tweekers got into a fight with one cop, for whatever reason, and the cop dies. How many murder charges would be filed?
Pretty close to what I expected. I thought two for manslaughter. Murder 2 and manslaughter, and manslaughter.
2 main players. The damage was done by those two cops. The 4 others didn’t inflict damage and never had a chance to stop anything.
The DA could charge all the people he wants but he knows in trial they would all get off. He did what was expected with the timeline and evidence.
What’s the explanation for murder and manslaughter against the same person? Does that make sense?
Hampton will probably be on the street again soon. If he’s already been punished for the other cases, he can’t be punished again.
Wonder how long for trial. Probably a year?
Cause of death much different than the civil suit said. I guess that’s why the DA waited.
Good job DA. Reality played out as expected.
If you are holding down a suspect while your “colleague” is committing an egregious felony (beating him in the face and head over and over with the butt of his taser) and you “never had a chance to stop anything,” then you absolutely SUCK as a “peace officer” as well as a human being.
@Save US from the Fullerton Cops,
You are Exactly correct. Reality Is has a VERY WARPED idea of “reality.”
He has no insight into his illness and he can’t recognize the false “reality” that is only present in his own mind, which includes his delusions and hallucinations of omnipotence, self importance and grandeur. He is TRULY ILL, and deserves our sympathy and help. However, someone who is mentally ill, should NOT be in any positon in L.E. These are the very people that we need to have evaluated and removed from L.E.
Actually, it is the “holding down” that causes death. See restraint asphyxia. Cops kill people all the time using this lethal form of containment. The escalation of force occurs because people under the weight of pressure on their chest can’t ventilate, have extreme air hunger and become “extremely combative” in order to breathe. They will often tear their own rib tissue in order to move the chest wall.
Hampton may get a pass on this but he is going to cost the city BIG money for the civil rights violations trials……
Wolfe was there the whole time, how is it wolfe “never had a chance to stop anything.” We all know Wolfe allowed it to happen. He didnt stop did he? What are the witness accounts of wolfe’s actions? Did he try to stop it at all? was he picking his nose and easting it the whole time? He didnt vanish and than re-appear when Hampy showed up?
Backstrok’in!!! ” Pretty close to what I expected. ” You are so full of shit. I’m not going to waste my time looking for the exact quote but it was something like…no charges will be filed against anybody. Stupid AND a liar.
“The 4 others didn’t inflict damage and never had a chance to stop anything.”
I think the DA said officer wolf did do some punching. I’ll double check the transcript. But anyhow he made physical contact with Kelly before Cincinelli did. How do you figure that he couldn’t have stopped it? I’m not even sure WHAT he should face, but people get tried for murder all the time when their friend stabs somebody.
“What’s the explanation for murder and manslaughter against the same person? Does that make sense? ”
Not really. I don’t get that one. Maybe some attempt to ensure he is guilty on SOMETHING? Your thoughts?
“Cause of death much different than the civil suit said.”
Asphyxiation == Asphyxiation.
WOLF WAS INVOLVED IN HOLDING KELLY DOWN, HE MAY HAVE GOTTEN SOME LICKS IN TOO, HAMPTON SUPPOSEDLY RAMMED KELLY’S HEAD INTO THE CURB. LET’S FOLLOW UP ON THIS AND IF IT’S TRUE, PRESSURE THE DA TO FILE CHARGES.
I rewatched the DA’s video. Wolf DID get some licks in. Some knees and with the baton. And he was on top of Kelly. YES he could have stopped it.
Yes, T-Rack said on KFI that was the reason – if the jury acquits on the murder charge they can still convict on the manslaughter charge. So basically it ensures that at least Ramos is unlikely to just be acquitted of murder and walk.
He obviously learned something from the Casey Anthony trial. Let’s hope no mistakes are made here now.
Good Job DA?
Shut up DiCaprio.
Ok..people. I’m disgusted by what happened and I feel the FPD is shit. People need to answer for what they did….BUT a DA that NEVER filed charges against an officer filed MURDER and manslaughter charges. I assume most commenters watched the whole video. If you did, you know the DA said the other officers got there after the damage was done and Kelly was dead. So the comments about standing around and not doing anything are stupid. People wont be happy until ALL officers are burned at the stake right? Is that the mob mentality we have adopted in this matter???
AGAIN, what happened to Kelly was horrible, an injustice and MURDER but lets not become just as bad as the officers that beat poor Kelly.
Which of those four officers arrested Cicinelli and Ramos on the spot?
The DA has prosecuted before, but convictions not so much. Also, officer Wolfe was first on the scene with Ramos. So, your wrong. 2 officers charged, Sissynelli was the 3rd officer on the scene. What the fuck was wolfe doing???
According to the DA wolfe was getting his licks in.
Assuming the other four got there “after the damage was done”. What about their reports?
The ones they wrote together after watching the bus depot video.
The DA’s description paints Ramos as the instigator of the events that led to Kelly Thomas’ death. If the other four didn’t report that after viewing the video they were concealing a crime.
Isn’t that illegal?
COME ON EVERYONE!
don’t let them placate you! this was the least that could have been done given the evidence. wolfe was only 14 feet away and had no idea what was going on!?
they spent 11 weeks lowering our expectations. and they throw us this bone and pretend to get emotional describing pools of blood and such.
don’t fall for it!
This is not enough.
All six criminals should be charged with multiple crimes that this DA obviously looked the other way on. Has he forgotten about the falsified police reports that all six of these cops wrote? Everybody who tried to cover this murder up, also needs to see a jail cell.
Don’t worry though, because all of these cops are gonna face federal charges.
Someone looks real unhappy
Manatees never look happy…it’s their nature ; )
As graphic as the DA’s description of the crime was, there were quite a bit of facts left out. Was there ever a real report made of possible car burglaries? Was a false(or any) police report made? Was the false report made with the knowledge and consent of the police? Was this an intentional confrontation provoked by the police? What about the cop monitoring the video back at the police station? Why didn’t he (or the other officers that arrived later) stop this beating? These facts change everything and none of them were addressed today or will they likely ever be.
While two were charged, it seems a lot of the facts were overlooked or just ignored. Again, it sounds like a setup so none of them are ever convicted of anything.
If a conspiracy existed between bar owners and the police to make false and or exaggerated reports of criminal activity so the cops could remove the undesirable members of the public from a public place then the cops (and the person making the false report) broke the law. Even if Kelly Thomas died from a slip and fall while being peacefully escorted out of the area it is still first degree murder murder.
There are several people in prison for life (charged with first degree murder) resulting from relatively petty crimes that ended with the unintentional or accidental death of someone. The police and DA’s all over the state use this all the time to pressure confessions and or convict citizens and send them to prison for life.
WHERE’S THE VIDEO OF THE INCIDENT WITH ALL THE DETAIL EVERYONE HAS SEEN IT EXCEPT THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
Ramos’ attorney, John Barnett, said the charges were unfounded and disputed Rackauckas’ accounts of events. Thomas violently resisted arrest by kicking and swinging at officers, he said, adding that he had seen the same video cited by the prosecutor.
In response to claims that Ramos put on latex gloves and told Thomas he was going to hurt him, Barnett characterized his client’s attempt to get compliance as “the lowest type of force.”
“It was an attempt by the officer to use words not force to get the suspect to do what he’s supposed to do,” Barnett said. “He sought to avoid physical confrontation with words. There was no compliance by Mr. Thomas.”
SOB-founded my ass- we should protest in front of his office too
Here are booking photos of the animals charged,…ramos and cici http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/BillCarroll.html
check out these monsters
Mr Potato Head and The Terminator
The gruesome twosome! They look the part. What a pair. I hope they get the business in prison…
These guys look like they belong in FTT not the FPD! Only thing now is I fear the FPD more than FTT
@The Inquiring Mind
So you know that all 4 filed false reports for a fact? Ho do you think the DA got this damaging evidence? FROM THE REPORTS!! The cameras do not have audio.
Come on people, do you think that under the guidelines of the law the officer could be charged with 1st degree murder and got a conviction. This is a step in the right direction.
Is doesn’t matter what happens at this point. People are just not going to be happen with any solution.
Ive been to the rallies and the concert…most of the people there dont know ANYTHING about this case and spread lies. They are just latching on to something.
For weeks there has been talks that “nothing will be done”, now something is and the reaction is going to start a new series of comments on how this is not enough.
I want justice for kelly…but lets do it in a dignified way!
SADOMASOCHIST, SHUT YOUR BLATHERING PIE HOLE,YOUR POST MADE NO SENSE AT ALL.
We are paying for it and the officials always drag their feet, and let these guys collect pay, and it goes on and one.
So yes of coarse people are latching on to the same B.S. and you act like its the 1st time it has happened.
Did you just get out of high school or something?
These people (police or not) committed a crime and as a result a man (Kelly Thomas) is dead. That’s first degree murder and they should ALL face the death penalty.
This is a good start… but NOT nearly enough. FPD clearly colluded in trying to cover this up. That is a crime… and ALL involved in trying to hide this murder need to be charged… right up to ex-Police Chief Sellers and current chief. And if ANY of those officers were coached to rewrite their reports… they need to come forward with that information NOW. Silence about the cover up is as much of a crime as beating Kelly to death.
but all the money in the world can’t buy them integrity . . . they will forever bear the stigma of dishonor and conduct unbecoming of an officer of the peace . . . anyone department in California who hiring will be putting their departments and their cities at risk.
BUT THE COPS WERE WEARING PERSONAL RECORDING DEVICES, THERE’S AUDIO ON THEM. PLUS 151 WITNESSES?
“There Are Two Ways To Enslave A Country…. One Is By The Sword. The Other Is By Debt.” — John Adams
I said it before, they MURDERED KELLY THOMAS!!!!!
And Ofc. Wolf could have stopped it!!!
I want to read ALL of their police reports and HEAR THE AUDIO recordings.
DID I HEAR CORRECTLY? DID T-RACK SAY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING IN HERE THAT KELLY HAD A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO RESIST AN UNLAWFUL DETENTION OR ARREST? WOW! WHO WUDDA THUNK?
Yes Fedup, I caught that too.
WHEW! THOUGHT I WAS HALLUCINATING OR SOMETHING!
He shore did say that. I guess that goes for any of us?
well, what do you know-you can resist if defending yourself even from the poe lice, huh, Realty Is? you moron
Falsified police reports?
Admin you need to post the booking photos of the killers and keep them at the top of the page with McPensions boys as a header….
Put McPenis’s mean mug pic next the two thugs, Ramos and Arnold Cyclops.
The DA just said the cops’ digital records were on when Ramos approched Kelly.
Oh, okay, so we know it wasn’t Officer Pervy (Rincon) involved…
Even an accidental death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder! The hypocrisy of the double standard being afforded the FPD by the DA’s office is disgusting!
After all the DA said, it is clear FPD command staff were well aware the these two bad apples had done something wrong – and yet they remained on the job for a month!
They should all be charged with crimes too. If it were me or you covering up a crime I’m sure we would be charged.
OCDA CHARGES TWO FULLERTON POLICE OFFICERS FOR THE BEATING-DEATH OF 37-YEAR-OLD HOMELESS MAN
This and no riots…To bad FPD..you will just have to keep your abusive ways to nighttime.
The case against Cincinelli is going to get thrown out simply because Wolfe was also on top of Kelly but he wasnt charged.
The DA set up a weak case with a lot of holes that defense lawyers will rip apart. Shameful.
I’m sure he has too much integrity to do that. That would be dishonest.
Dishonest and underhanded.
IF THAT WERE TRUE, T-RACK WOULD NEVER HAVE FILED THE CHARGES MORON! WHY WOULD HE FILE CHARGES ONLY TO DISMISS THEM?
So he could prosecute them with the same vigor he’s used every time he has charged a police officer with a crime. BTW- What is his conviction rate against the police?
He’s not going to dismiss the charges. The defense lawyers are going to pick through the weak case he’s putting forward and get the charges dropped.
Oh and you gotta love double jeopardy.
wrong-oh hells no- you wish
AND THEY WERE NOT FIRED DESPITE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE!
…but the DA made an interesting comment about people having the right to defend themselves against police officers who commit crimes.
COPS ARE NOT FIRED JUST LIKE THAT, THEY HAVE CIVIL SERVICE PROTECTIONS TO PROLONG TAXPAYERS MISERY.
YOU ARE ON TO THE GAME HERE.
The DA did it right; there will be more officers being charged.. Guaranteed… The DA stated as of right now Two officers ,,, meaning there will be more ..
I’m way past bullshit and wishful thinking.
Charge them now, they have 100+ witnesses combined with audio and video evidence.
Were you guys not paying attention????? They only have to prove that what he was doing was the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought. Tased 4 times, hit in the face 8 time with the Taser. The DA already said those were contributing factors.
1. The DA is saying that Kelly died because someone was on his chest (The DA never said who).
2. The defense lawyer is going to say that the use of the taser was not a contributing factor in Kelly’s death furthermore they’re saying that the hits to the head was not a contributing factor in his death.
3. Wolfe and Ofc. Potato Head were both on top of Kelly at the Cincinelli arrived. The defense lawyer is going to say that Wolfe (who was not charged) played a greater role in this.
Letting Wolfe off weakens the whole case against Cincinelli. It would be like charging Chief Sellers with 2nd degree murder but letting all of the other officers off the hook.
Also the medical reports released by Ron Thomas shows MASSIVE head trauma which the DA refused to address.
Overall this is a watered down weak case meant to make the public happy while ultimately getting the thugs responsible off the hook when this case goes to trial.
CINDY, I THINK THEY COULD PROVE MALICE AFORETHOUGHT, BECAUSE OF WHAT RAMOS DID, HIS WORDS, HIS ACTIONS, PROVE THAT HIS INTENT WAS TO CAUSE KELLY HARM, NO HE WASN’T TRYING TO SCARE KELLY. I THINK HE HAD OTHER THINGS IN MIND, WORDS AND ACTIONS IN MY MIND SHOW ME MALICE.
Young…I agree that the primary cause of death was external force on his thorax. He THEN said the blows to the face and head were contributing factors. They have video proof of that. Not conjecture. It doesn’t matter what the defense lawyer says. The DA is ON RECORD saying it was. As I said before, EVERY word the DA said was measured. I’m sure he wouldn’t say that pubicly if it wasn’t so. Again, were you listening????? You couldn’t have been. Watch it again. This is a weak beginning but he had NO choice not to do that given the evidence. When all the details become public, there WILL be more charges.
That alone speaks volumes and needs to be kept on people’s minds. There’s something seriously wrong here..
THAT IS WHAT I THOUGHT I HAD HEARD, THE CASE LAW HE WAS REFERNCING IS ELK VS US. READ IT EVERYONE!
BEFORE THEY KILL YOU
HOW MANYPEOPLE READING THIS BLOG WOULD BE INTERESTED IN ATTENDING A KNOW YOUR RIGHTS SEMINAR? MERIJOE SUGGESTED IT, AND THINK IT COULD BE FEASIBLE IF WE GET THE RIGHT PEOPLE TO PRESENT THE INFORMATION.
I wonder if Kelly knew his rights. I wonder if it would have made a difference.
The moment a cop starts beating you without provocation is the moment that you have no rights.
This is like saying “Gee if Kelly knew his rights he wouldnt have been killed”.
When cops feel confident that they can beat a man to death in front of 100+ witnesses that’s when you have no rights.
The DA stated he was charging two officers. i grantee you there will be more officers being charged ; i know for a fact all the officers will never hit the streets. you have to understand the two officers are being charged; all 6 officers will be subjected of termination based off numerous polices and procedures being broken..
I sure hope so 10-35guy
10-34guy, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
oh really ,,, ? and why is that … The Fecal …
I’m way past this bullshit and wishful thinking.
Charge them now, the DA has 100+ witnesses combined with audio and video evidence.
I AGREE WITH YOUR OBSERVATION. T-RACK HAS NOT CLOSED THE DOORS ON CHARGING THE OTHER COPPERS INVOLVED IN THIS SCENARIO. I THINK IF WE KEEP PRESSURE ON THE DA’S OFFICE, HE WILL FILE ON HAMPTON AND WOLF. THEY AIDED IN THE BEATING OF OF KELLY. PEOPLE DON’T BE DISAPPOINTED, WE WILL PREVAIL.
ME! count me in. email me: [email protected]
If the cops can beat a man to death in front of over 100 witnesses you have no rights.
Not a Fullerton resident; not even an OC resident, but have been actively following this story as I am as outraged as all of you over the killing of Mr. Thomas. I encourage all Fullerton residents to continue to pressure your City Council, your police department, your City Manager, your elected members to the state legislature and your US representatives to speak against this outrageous conduct and to get the other four officers out of FPD, and preferably out of jobs as officers of the peace. They have shown they are incapable of upholding the peace and are unable to protect your citizens.
These type of acts happen every day across America. http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com
The effort and succcess of everyone here needs to follow through until these criminals are in prison where they belong and then needs to move on to the next injustice that’ll happen, hopefully, less and less!
Still much to do in Fullerton police beating case
The district attorney’s investigation of the beating death of Kelly Thomas, a homeless man with a history of mental illness, came to a dramatic conclusion Wednesday with the filing of a rare murder charge against a Fullerton police officer and involuntary manslaughter charges against him and another officer.
Whatever the legal outcome is of their accusations, the matter is far from closed. What about the four officers involved in the death whose alleged actions — or lack of action –did not merit criminal charges? Were they performing up to the minimal standards of the Fullerton Police Department? Should administrative action be taken?
Beyond that, an incident this tragic begs for a wider probe of the Police Department, including an independent commission, much like the Christopher Commission formed in 1991 after the Rodney King beating, to determine whether there are systemic problems within the department. Such a commission would look into whether the officers involved have a history of complaints against them and whether there are “bad apples” within the department that tend toward excessive force.
The City Council should be moving quickly to show leadership on this issue.
” DAR devices of Cicinelli and Officer Hampton were either not activated or not being carried) ”
So it seems they knew enough to TURN OFF their DARs so they could not be incriminated???????
like i said in the beginning all six officers will never hit the streets. Some will be charged all of them broke policy.. automatic termination especially a high profile case.. just watch,,, you all will see.
Bullshit, Bullshit and more Bullshit.
All of this should have happened within the first week MAX. Sorry PoliceGuy but I’m not going to buy your BULLSHIT!
how is that BS ,,, its fact … call it how you want it ..
Cops, as you put it, “broke policy” on July 5th. Cops involved were allowed to work for another month before being put on leave. What, 10-35guy, makes you say they will be terminated for their actions? Because of the high profile nature of this or would they be terminated regardless?
there is more facts that will be brought out in court reference after the fact & before the fact. the whole thing about them working for a month there after is true to a certain extent.. all six + have an IA on them the week the incident took place. jut because you have an IA on you doesn’t always mean your going on admin leave. termination will always be based on the totality of the circumstances.
code of conduct will play a big role for all the officers . that will be brought out in court. All six of these officers will still go to court weather it be civil or criminal and there will be numerous officers testifying against each other ( IE witness or Character witness ) & that will lead to another IA Shit keeps rolling down hill ,,, that’s fact …
IF THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE PD HAVE ANY BALLS AT ALL, THEY WILLTERMINATE THE EMPLOYMENT FOR GROSS POLICY VIOLATIONS. THERE APPEARS TO BE A PATTERN AND PRACTICE OF IT GOING ON. CIVIL SERVICE, DO YOUR JOB!
You’re also “chikn,” right? Chikn also uses commas for ellipses rather than periods.
THE WAY I WAS TRAINED, EVERY SINGLE OFFICER INVOVLED IN A CRIME SCENE, WRITES THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL REPORTS, THIS INCLUDES SUPERVISORS.
A POLICE REPORT WRITTEN BY COPS IS A LEGAL DOCUMENT, LIKE A WILL OR CONTRACT. IF YOU LIE IN WRITING THAT REPORT, YOU HAVE COMMITTED PERJURY.
IN KELLY’S CASE, THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN APPROXIMATELY 9 REPORTS WRITTEN, WITH ONE OF THEM BEING WRITTEN BY THE WATCH COMMANDER, SHOULD HAVE BEEN, DOES NOT EQUAL TO IT HAVING BEEN DONE!
What a great acting job by Tony, who would of thought he had such talent. This is what people will remember at election time! Not the fact that he let the other 4 off with nothing. I hope the FBI gets them all 6.
I think the most important part of this press conference is the fact that the DA publicly stated we have the right to defend ourselves against cops who are use excessive force or are committing an unlawful duty against us.
Please refresh my memory. What are the names of the six officers involved? I can’t remember the sgts name. Thank-you..God Bless Kelly Thomas!!!!
Imagine that, take the abusive thugs out of the blue uniform and they look like…..THUGS.
Even though I greatly disagree with his decision to let the other officers off the hook. I have to commend him for mentioning this.
We’ve hearda lot about Cyclops since all this went down. But what about Ramos? Anyone have any encounters with him. (I think I rememberthat his dad was a cop, too? In placentia, maybe??)
That tazer was not used by Cincinelli the way Tony Ra. demonstrated it being used. Those hits as precisley administered with the but of a tazer and was aiming his hits with precision. Witness will testify to this.When he begins to talk about Cincinelli you can see his demeanor change. He clearly looks to be covering for him.4 years max for Cincinelli will be reduced to about 1yr probably.
Ramos targeted a caucasion.
SG-Jay Cicinelli pleads not guilty to involuntary manslaughter
16 seconds ago
Just watched the video on msnbc.
Saw Ramos being escorted out of the courtroom-looked like he was in handcuffs. It appeared that Cicinelli walked out on his own after making bail.
Ya know, Ramos could have a serious accident, even in PC. Possibly a fatal mishap.
Guards and cameras can’t be everywhere.
Ramos targeted a mentally ill person.
Ramos targeted many burritos
SG here-Manuel Ramos continues arraignment to 9/26
SG here-Jay Cicinelli pleads not guilty to Invol manslaughter and excessive use of force #kellythomas
53 seconds ago
The brass of the FPD, should be replaced, everyone of them; for it was they who knew, protected, harbored, and lied to keep these animals from being fired and jailed like they should have been many years before. How many lives have been changed/destroyed because of the actions of these officers? Kiem and Quinonez are just two of the many who are still out there shuddering from their contact with these asses.
Kelly’s murder was not an accident. It was the culmination of many excessive force arrests that this group was successfully able to justify using slick writing skills, and out-and-out lying, and where no charges ever became of such actions. Slowly, they became more brave as their abuse/victim record grew, until they became so bold, as to think they were invincible. Increasing levels of violent, unchecked, and illegal force, sadly led to a death.
Kelly’s death was to bring to light, all these rogue officers, and their inhumane ways. They not only saw the public as the enemy, but they also found “sport” in hunting them.
I implore the D.A., if not, then the FBI to investigate further, and bring these officers to justice.
This country was founded on laws, and laws we all abide by willingly. Those who are empowered to enforce the laws of this great land, must also abide by them as well; it is not only expected, it is DEMANDED!
Never any mention of who called the police, what Kelly was accused of, or any non-cooperation by Kelly. He was fully innocent.
fullerton pd is going to make a statement at 4;00 pm
“This is a sad day for the department…”
They’ll probably throw in something about “Public Trust”, “Moving Forward” and “Healing”.
“We are still conducting an internal probe of our asses and still have not found our heads”
Tony R. did not mention in announcement that he was being beat unlawfuly in itself but rather that it was unlawful because he was provoked first by a single statment that led him to react and cause all the officers responce after Ramos reacted. The officers pinning him to the ground surely knew that to beat a man pinned on the ground for over ten minutes is not justified just because he jumped up and resisted. It sounds to me like Tony R is saying because officer Ramos gave the illusion of Kelly resistin, they all had the right to beat and taze him for ten minutes until he was unconcious.He said nothing about what was reasonable force on detaining a 135 man in and of itself.
SG here-Ron Thomas pleads with judge to keep bail as is….bail for Ramos stays at 1 million, Cicinelli bail at 25,000
1 minute ago
SG here-Judge orders Ramos and Cicinelli to surrender all guns by 9/23 #kellythomas
2 minutes ago
Maybe, Ramos does everyone a favor and eats his gun.
I wish more cops were like NYPD Officer Michael Pigott.
He was an hero.
This is not over yet! 2 out of 6 officers is not enough…period. And for Rauckaukas to use the excuse of there wasn’t enough evidence to support charging the other officers until there is more sufficient evidence is manure! Rauckaukas is the next one who needs to be recalled. Don’t forget his gun charges and everyone needs to read the government codes on the conduct of the DA. And once you read that you will see the DA is NEVER working in the victim’s corner and is ALWAYS siding for law enforcement.
Here are the government codes for our DA: http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=gov&group=26001-27000&file=26500-26509
And as you can see…nothing can make the DA choose the fate of others…other than the DA himself. Hence why this POS was not and will not be charged for the missing gun case. Do you really think the DA would turn himself in?
NOT GUILTY PLEAS TO BE EXPECTED. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THESE CHARGES DON’TGET PLEA BARGAINED DOWN TO LESSER CHARGES.
they will NOT plea bargin
RAMOS IS HISPANIC, BUT HE ALSO IS A CAUCASIAN.
No such thing.
I HEARD FROM AN ATTORNEY ON SUNDAY WHO HAD INSIDE THE DA’S OFFICE EMPLOYEE TELL HIM THAT AT LEAST TWO WERE GOING TO BE CHARGED.
Get this troll out of here.
Just heard on KFI the two cops charged don’t have to turn in their issued firearms until the 23rd ?
Maybe they’ll do the right thing and make the decision to let God judge them.
They’d be an hero.
I can’t believe you said that… Sigh.
He was given murder and manslaughter charges sothat he could be found innocent of the murder and guilty of the manslaughter charge to , hopefull, placate the public. I predict 4 years for Ramos and 2 for Cyclops
who is the troll???
I’m glad for the 2 charges however not charging the other 4 with not stopping the beating leaves unfinished business. This police department must be dismantled and the OCSD brought in to restore the communities trust! This good ole boy network has run its course and needs to be gone. The only way it could possibly survive is if the FPD announces this afternoon the other 4 are facing unpaid suspension up to termination for their part.
DON’T THINK SO, MINIMUM RAMOS CAN GET IS 15 5O LIFE, MEANING HE HAS TO SERVE AT LEAST 15, MAYBE WITH GOOD TIME, HE MIGHT GET OUT EARLY, BUT IF HE GET LIFE, HE’LL NEVER SEE THE STEERING WHEEL OF A BLACK AND WHITE AGAIN.
15 years in prison is a death sentence for a former cop. Once the inmates get wind of it his days are numbered.
Kelly Thomas: Councilwoman calls for police oversight panel
I would agree that a commission is the right move. However, first we have to get the recall going, have it be successful, or the commission will be full of their cronies.
Hey Fullerton.. Until there’s trust restored 100% with the Fullerton PD, we’re going to need a non-sworn peace officer (Yep one of us citizens) riding along with every cop for the next 3 years. Where do we sign up? That’s going to be the only way we restore the trust in FPD. We can write our own ride-along reports and post them here with no coaching, submitting for approvals, re-writing, etc.
Officer charged in man’s death pleads not guilty
By AMY TAXIN and GREG RISLING
SANTA ANA, Calif. (AP) — A California police officer has pleaded not guilty to manslaughter and excessive force charges in the killing of an unarmed, mentally ill homeless man.
Officer Manuel Ramos and Cpl. John Cicinelli made their initial court appearance Wednesday after being charged in the death of 37-year-old Kelly Thomas after a violent confrontation with officers on July 5.
Cicinelli pleaded not guilty to one count each of involuntary manslaughter and excessive force. He posted $25,000 bail and was scheduled to return to court in November.
Ramos, charged with one count each of second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter, did not enter a plea and was being held on $1 million bail. His arraignment is set for Monday.
Six officers were placed on paid administrative leave after the incident that occurred while police were investigating reported vehicle break-ins at a transit hub.
YOUR OVERSIGHT COMMISION, DIVISION OR WHAT EVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT NEEDS TO BE APOLITICAL. NO POLITICIANS ALLOWED AND THESE NEEDS TO BE WRITTEN INTO THE BYLAWS AND CODE OF ETHICS. KEEP IT ON TOPIC AND ON FOCUS, POLICE MISCONDUCT.
I think a fitting punishment would be eating doughnuts until you explode. For Ramos, I think one more should do it.
Jesus Christ, has anybody read Tony’s press release? The entire thing is a mess. At one point it states Cicinelli arrived at 8:54pm and then towards the end of the document, it says he arrived at 8:45pm. So which is it Tony?
Also, according to the press release, Officer Hampton arrived at the exact same time as Cicinell (8:54pm), which means he witnessed Cicinell’s unlawful actions and didn’t do anything to stop him
Based on that fact, it seems like Hampton should be charged as an accessory.
But again, the press release has another discrepancy and later states that Hampton arrived after Cicinelli.
“The rest of the police officers who arrived at the scene – Officer Hampton, Sergeant Craig, and Corporal Blatney –
arrived later in response to the calls for assistance. The evidence does not show knowing-participation in an unlawful
act on the part of these three officers. Thus, no charges are being filed against them at this time.”
Man, these criminals are a bunch of idiots. Even in the press release they can’t get they’re cover-up right.
I would also like to know what these crooks lied about in their police reports when they all go together to watch the video. And who allowed them to do that?
ramos arrived at 8:37
cicinelli at 8:45
where are you reading that??
page 6/page 6 of the PDF file:
Cicinelli arrived at the scene at 8:54pm.
page 3/page 10 of the PDF file:
Cicinelli arrived at the scene at 8:45pm.
The entire timeline in the press release does not make sense if you really go over it.
Perhaps he is trying to make a lot of holes in the case so they get out of it and he can say he tried. Can’t put much past all these corrupts Aholes anymore.
THEY WEREN’T BOOKED IN TO COUNTY JAIL SO NO WAY TO LOOK THE INFO UP THERE, THEY WERE BOOKED INTO FEDERAL PRISON.
^^ Troll please ignore him.
No they weren’t.
I think he’s talking about this…
…He’s right. The whole thing is a mess.
Ron Thomas on the DA’s announcement today of serious charges in the beating death of his son:
“That’s exactly what I hoped for. It makes me feel fantastic that this is happening, it’s the justice we need.”
This is how the victim’s own father feels, for chrissake.
The undisputed leader in the justice for Kelly movement.
So some of you might want to ask yourselves, “why am I still so angry?”
Step away from the computer. Hug the dog, kiss the kids and go for a mtn. bike ride. That’s what I’m gonna do. It’s a great, great day.
I’ll see you on the loop.
Umm Susan Kang,
At the time he made that statement he was very happy to hear that the officers were getting charged but as he begin to examine things over the coming days I wouldn’t be surprised if he changed his opinion.
Of course none of this prevents me from voicing my personal opinion.
Umm T N Z,
Tell us… How exactly does it feel to have been proven so wrong about so much?
So now when you presume to know Ron Thomas’ future thoughts we should listen to you why?
Ron just said Cincinelli’s charge is “Not nearly enough”.
Sure he’s tickled. That just put an extra zero on his lawsuit award.
Ron wants justice juice. How dis you get access to the web O.J.
I’m at a loss. There were many cops there.
WHY did ALL those other cops STAND BY while RAMOS was escalating in both language and threatening gestures? I’m going to F*** you up! is the language of the streets, the gutter.
Is there no one there with any integrity or common sense?
I agree with others. These two aren’t enough. More will simply have to go. And we really have to discuss the use of tasers here in Fullerton.
I look forward to hearing more from the the DA.
“Hey, we know you’re all very upset with what happened to Kelly Thomas, so here’s a fat Mexican.”
Aren’t we always told how in shape you need to be to get a high paying public safety job. Oops another lie. I guess the only real qualification is exhibiting “Sociopath like Tendencies”.
Hey Mr Admin. Can you remind the world how evasive sick Chief Sellers was to FFFF’s Travis Kiger’s request to develop a “taser” policy a year or two back?
Does it really make a difference to anybody here that some of the 6 manics didnt actually do the hitting/kicking/punching but let others do it and knew what was happening? Craig had to know why else did he take a leave right after the beating/murder?
YEAH IT MATTERS. MERI DO WE KNOW IF THIS IS THE SAME SGT THAT GOT SOME LICKS IN ON KELLY? WAS HE THE LAST ONE TO ARRIVE AS BACKUP?
FEDUP- DA didnt say he was seen giving any blows-I believe he was one of the last to come to the scene
NOT TRUE, READ THE PDF FILE ON THE FACE OF THIS PAGE, READ PG 6 AND IT SPELLS OUT WHAT PART WOLF PLAYED IN THIS, HE ASSAULTED KELLY UNDER THE COLOR OF AUTHORITY!
Since Kelly died from not being able to breath wouldn’t that make all those kneeling on him and restraining him while being beaten to death just as guilty? Don’t get me wrong I’m sure the facial blows contributed to the death but since the ‘long awaited’ report says compression, wouldn’t it take 4 or 5 bodies to compress BOTH lungs for that long?
Ramos could easily pass for 2-3 other bodies.
Ja ja ja ja ja, as we say en espanol. What a freak show. They’ll probably need a special over-sized witness box to accomodate him. I’d run from him even without seeing the gloves and his sadistic threats. Then again, he probably won’t take the stand.
DON’T FORGET, THE CRUSHING INJURIES WEREN’T JUST TO HIS CHEST. HE ALSO SUSTAINED DAMAGE TO HIS THROAT.
Two cops are not enough. What happened to the part about how Hampton only backed off because the blood got on his pretty little dress. The DA said he was only holding Kelly leg? Sounds like the video didn’t catch all the beating.
JUST REMEMBER, THERE IS STILL THE CIVIL TRIAL, BURDEN OF PROOF IS LOWER THERE AND CRIMINAL TRIAL TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE CAN BE USED THERE AS WELL. JUST THINK OJ’S CIVIL TRIAL ENDED UP IN A CONVICTION, WRONGFUL DEATH, DEPRIVATION OF CIVIL RIGHTS.
Will an OC jury convict these cops? Based on past experience with conservative white juries, it’s a stretch. Remember Moxley’s reporting on David Alex Park, the Irvine cop who pulled over a stripper, whipped it out and told her that he wouldn’t arrest her if she satisfied him. The jury bought that this was consensual sex. Remember the Christopher Hibbs case — fellow officers changed their stories and the jury wouldn’t convict the guy for repeatedly tasering a handcuffed guy. He’s still a deputy and thanks to the Peace Officers Bill of Rights, none of us have any business knowing whether Hibbs has abused other people with a Taser.
THIS CASE IS LIKE NO OTHER EVER TRIED IN OC. THEY MIGHT EVEN ATTEMPT TO MOVE IF OUT OF THE OC AREA. CHANGE OF VENUE BECAUSE OF PRETRIAL PUBLICITY.
Cop defense attorneys specialize in cops; other defense attorneys won’t have anything to do with them and most of their lies are the same lies DAs use most of the time in regular cases. The win all over the country a very high percentage of the time. Look at the rapist cop in NYC. Sure, he was just cuddling with his drunken victim who he escorted home for her safety while on duty. He was “cuddling” on duty.
I would need to see one of those cop prosecutions on video to know whether they do any tanking or not. States like Florida that have tv coverage of court cases don’t seem to ever prosecute cops – and they have some real loser cops in that state.
When will the videos be made public? We the public need to know all the evidence they have to be able to judge how good of a job the prosecution does. We don’t need to “wait and see” what the evidence “turns out to be.” Let’s see the evidence now. Ruckus’ own statements made it clear he had enough to try Wolf too.
The various versions of the police reports are probably hilarious.
Here will be a test for the DA. He needs to argue the reports and testimony were tainted because the defendants got to watch the video first. I also want to know if there were any testimony deals for the uncharged co-conspirators. I hope Ruckus did not give away the no-files for free.
what is Sergeant Craig’s first name???
kevin i believe
JUST LOOKED HIM UP IT’S KEVIN CRAIG.
A good start, but I agree with so many others’ comments here, that there MUST BE at least charges of dereliction of duty lodged against every single Fullerton Policeman who was at the scene AND those who were monitoring or directing or supervising the FPD “six” on that evening.
And those (several) other participants (including Chief Sellers) CANNOT be allowed to remain “on administrative leave” (i.e. still on the FPD payroll) during the period of this investigation of a smoking-gun-in-hand “alledged” crime.
STOP THIS BETRAYAL OF OUR COMMON SENSE by ignoring the blatant dereliction of duty by those hired and paid to PROTECT the citizenry.
The 11-page DA press release is here: http://documents.latimes.com/charges-kelly-thomas-police/
By the way, I forgot to commend Tony and the whole staff at FFFF for all your great work keeping this issue at the front of everyone’s minds.
Without you guys, this might not have gained the steam that it has. The FPD probably would have just swept it under the rug and looked the other way. The thugs responsible would still be cruising the streets with impunity.
It’s not over yet and our work isn’t done, but thanks again for doing all that you have. Please keep it up and I’ll keep doing whatever I can to support you.
and no plea bargains, per ron thomas
Good work FFF. You did great work.
Not sure how the city council will try to explain themselves.
Work hard on the recall and work to disband the department.
ron thomas is en route to fullerton, for their press conferece at 4:00 pm
t-rack hasn’t got enough evidence for charges for the others, per ron..
we can keep trying to get more
per ruck he said in his transcript today that wolf deployed his baton and threatened kelly with it and he struck kelly in the legs with it, how much more do we need to indict wolf?
I agree. Kelly was posing NO threat to them. Plus 2 against 1. Armed against unarmed. ANY physical force at that time was not justified.
They better at least be fired and have their pensions taken away, but we all know that in Orange county you can still collect your pension even if you are in prison.
Also Ramos has a smirk in that photo. Bastard.
Clearly the other officers need to be charged with failure to intervene.
This must be the arrangement with the police union.
Give 2 up to protect the rest.
Hampton needs charges based on previous abuse.
Andrew goodrich needs to be bounced. He actually is the Police union spokes hole.
Sellers saw the whole thing, and returned these guys to service!?!?
Bring him in on charges for the cover up.
Why does a town the size of Fullerton even employ a full-time police spokeman?
Andrew Goodrich looks like the mascot for Krispy Kreme donuts instead of a police officer.
ron thomas was just on the radio, he said “they looked like scared puppies in the courtroom”
ron said he hoped they’d be vomitting and having diarrhea….new pd weight loss program!
I think reality is smaking em in the grill.
this is not over, it sounds like more charges can be filed..
Can anyone tell me if the 4:00pm Fullerton Police Press Conference will be broadcast live?
If so, what station?
probably all of the news channels will carry it, they did this am.
THANK YOU ERIC!!!!! This jackass just keeps posting bullshit upon bullshit even after he is proven wrong!
Okay, I get that Erik made the request, great, here is the link to his FOI records request: http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/FOIA-CPRA-Request-for-dispatch-records-redacted.pdf
And here is a link the only documentation provided:
Note that it is titled ‘Police-Reports-Auto-Burglary.’ And that is exactly what it contains: Reports of actual crimes committed that night. The Dispatch Log, as I previously indicated, HAS NOT BEEN PROVIDED. And that is where we would find a call from Slidebar or anyone else reporting suspicious activity.
FFF went with what Erik provided and reported that there was a ‘missing phone call’ here:
But again, the documentation provided (no Dispatch Log) did not prove anything with regard to a missing call, all that was proven was that there wasn’t an actual crime reported.
On the other hand, the DA says in today’s press release that his office reviewed “Dispatch logs and audio from FPD.” And that this log and audio indicated that on “July 5, 2011, at 8:23 p.m., FPD Dispatch received a call reporting a ‘homeless’ man looking in car windows and pulling on handles of parked cars in the FTC parking lot.”
Thus, there was and is no ‘missing call.’ FFF and Travis just assumed there was because it wasn’t in the crime report and posted Erik’s irrelevant info as supporting evidence. Now here we are 7 weeks later and the ‘missing call’ is considered FACT by some here, including Cindy Mc.
It should also be noted that Gonzo, Esq. and I both pointed this error out to FFF in the blog entry comments section and no effort was made by FFF or Travis to correct their mistake, so you Cindy Mc can be forgiven for getting the facts here wrong, FFF, and specifically Travis, knowingly told you a false story just to provoke more suspicion and doubt.
I don’t need to be forgiven for believing anything. I am quite capable of doing my own research and coming to my own conclusions. You on the other hand will not be forgiven fo being sooooo stupid. Twist the facts why don’t you. “The dispatch logs and audio” were NOT mentioned in conjunction with “On July 5, 2011, at 8:23 p.m., FPD Dispatch received a call reporting a “homeless” man looking in car windows and pulling
on handles of parked cars in the FTC parking lot. ” as you would want everyone to believe. All it says was audio & dispatch logs were used in the investigation. Gee, I wonder if the logs were used to see what the specific dispatch times of the officers who responded were, duh. YOU made an incorrect assumption-ass. The report NEVER stated “And that this log and audio indicated” as you KNOWINGLY wrote in a specific effort to MISLEAD. AS far as what log is what, the log that was supplied to Erik does have all those things “logged” in. What time the call came in, what time it was cued, what time it was “DISPATCHED” etc.. I think you are referring to some kind of fantasy log to attempt to make your case. Where is your fantasy log???? I think you are mincing terms just to be adversarial. You????? Oh no. Not YOU.
Oha man, you crack me up! Go here:
Scroll down to “INVESTIGATION OVERVIEW.” In this section there is a bullet list of “evidence reviewed” in the investigation. Near the bottom of the list it is noted that the DA’s office reviewed “Dispatch logs and audio from FPD.”
Now scroll down to the section entitled CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE INCIDENT. Note the first sentence in this section: “On July 5, 2011, at 8:23 p.m., FPD ****Dispatch**** received a call reporting a “homeless” man looking in car windows and pulling on handles of parked cars…”
I think it’s safe to conclude that the “Dispatch Logs and audio” provided by FPD are the source of the information about the call to FPD ****Dispatch****. That’s called rational, deductive reasoning. And I’m sure it the logs and audio will be presented at trial.
The point again is there never was a “missing call,” the document of Erik’s, provided by Travis and FFF to support that there was a ‘missing call,’ did not support that contention at all. And when it was pointed out to Travis and FFF that this was the case, no correction was ever made.
If Erik wants to try again and make an FOIA request of the FPD specifically for the Dispatch Log for that night between the hours of 8:00 and 9:00 PM, I’m sure he would have better luck finding the supposedly ‘missing call.’
But my guess is FFF, Travis and maybe even Erik are happy to let the erroneous story stand and for dumbfucks like you to go on believing in what truly is a fantasy… the ‘missing call’ that never was. 🙂
You REALLY are a fucking moron. I almost can’t believe it!!!! REALLY… How the fuck do you think I quoted those two staements, dumbass???? I saw it. I read it. I’ve told you before that I don’t post shit about shit I don’t know about. “Rational, deductive reasoning???? LMMFAO!! It’s called assumption. So the “investigation overview” lists the “audio and dispatch logs”, did it say ANYWHERE that that was the source??? Was it footnoted???? Did I miss something????? I would NEVER rely on YOUR conclusions! Where is it then asshole?? He did make an appropriate “FOIA” ( that was impressive but you know I’m smart enough to know what that means coplover. So IF there was a call the city attorney knew EXACTLY what the request was for. The nite of July 5th near the bus station. There needs to be no correction. There is no proof of it. If you would like to supply said proof, I’ll be waiting. Until then, fuck off, moron.
You sound like a 12 year-old having her first period!
Which is funny because I think I have a pretty accurate picture of you as an old, fat, smelly, used up old broad from Ohio with 4 or 5 grown kids that mostly live as far away from their disgusting old mother as they can get, and who when she’s not here posting worthless drivel, and correcting other’s typos while herself constantly fashioning ‘a lot’ into one word, spends her time posting similarly inane drivel about the Dr. Conrad Murray trial on the MIchael Jackson Fan Pages.
I was talking about Cissi:)
Kelly Thomas: It’s unclear whether Fullerton will fire officers
Acting police chief is making his public press release right now
I find it deplorable that there are 4 other police officers who were involved with physically subduing a man who was already subdued and they have not been charged with excessive force.
How is it posible they have not been charged after reading the report?
Is it necessary for 5 men to “kneel” on a 150 pound man after he’s been beaten and tasered numerous times?
These 4 men should lose their jobs with FPD at the very least. Not later, NOW.
As for the 2 officers who were charged today, it feels as though we have only scratched the surface but everyone at FFF and all the good citizens who have been protesting and keeping the DA’s feet to the fire should feel some sense of accomplishment and know our efforts have been vindicated to some degree. Let’s NEVER lose sight of the reason we’re all doing this and getting involved. The Thomas family deserves all our efforts and we all deserve better as a society.
ALL OFFICERS INVOLVED IN THOMAS CASE WILL BE ON PAID ADMINISTRATIVE LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What the fuck! I’m sickmof this BULL SHIT!
out of towners can listen to chris thompson on kfi here http://www.kfiam640.com/mediaplayer/
Involuntary??? Bull shit! I feel sick to my stomach! How can this be happening in this country?
These little dictatorships within our cities have to be taken down. Who do they think they are? Above the law! They have to be stopped!!
I have a son with severe autism and the police will be the last people I will call during any emergency related to my son!!
I’m so disgusted!
gotta do something about the union rules..
this is sick..
Well, at least these 2 asses will never be able to abuse the citizenry again.
Jury acquits Ramos. Cicinelli takes the hit with a few months behind bars even though he was the one who delivered the death blows.
As usual the DA blew it.
Oh, and yeah, I don’t believe for a second that Hampton wasn’t in on the pile on.
Rackauckas was just specifically asked about that on KFI, he said that Hampton wasn’t hitting Kelly or sitting on him, just trying to cuff him.
But, Hampton should be fired and prosecuted for his perjury, false arrest, and excessive force in the Mam and Quinones cases.
THAT’S NOT WHAT THE REPORT SAYS, READ PAGE 6 OF THE PDF FILE ABOVE.
Look at the picture of officer Jay Cicinelli. He has a skraggly full beard as if he has not groomed himself in several months. Yet he was not an undercover detective. What kind of rules are there in Fullerton PD? Most police officers in other OC Cities are proud of how they look. Cyclops Cicinelli looks like a problem just waiting to happen!
he was transferred to undercover immediately after the beating to hide out i would think. they had to know Kelly wasn’t going to make it. turns out his Dad really cared
in response to #489: Paul, don’t you know? It’s always been: “there’s the right way and then there’s the Fullerton way”. It’s been their motto for decades.
Did Ramos’ get more severe charges only because of his verbal threats?
And for all these threats, the DA’s report says, “It is unknown if he hit the victim or not.” Beyond his threats, what did he do that Cicinelli didn’t? What did he do that Wolfe didn’t? How are we to believe that Wolfe didn’t know what was going on? How did Wolfe not get charged with anything?
The DA bases a lot of his refusal to prosecute others on the Ramos gloved hands threat. The problem becomes if cops just carry out abuse and don’t threaten it first, what happens?
On the other hand, Ruckus said people have a right of self defense if cops are confronting them unlawfully. Some other states (Indiana for one) have concluded we don’t have that right. Ruckus was right and bold to say this. I think he’s serious about prosecuting the two with vigor. I don’t understand why Cissy wasn’t also charged with aggravated assault, which carries more time than Involuntary Manslaughter.
Obviously, Ramos simply putting his weight on someone equals deadly force. The guy easily looks like a 350 pound pig. The two together make quite the photogenic pair for bulimics.
True. Apparently neither a soul NOR any reasonable level of fitness are required to work for the FPD.
What a sad, sad day. It’s time to take our government back!
I was just looking at the pictures of these two scum on the KTLA site. Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t notice anyone but me comment about the photo of Cissy that Ruckus displayed at the press conference – the one with the two-month old paid administrative leave beard. He looked like a Muslim fanatic. Did he try to set off a bomb in his shoe or what. When did he shave?
Reality Is … do you know any inside scoop on this?
HE LOOKED LIKE A HOMELESS KELLY DIDN’T HE?
Maybe he feels bad and was trying to bring Kelly back. He looked exactly like Kelly did in a few pictures. Crazy.
“Crazy”. Better watch that it’s a slang term for mentally disabled (since you care so much about others, I would never want people to misinterpret your meaning.)
Toxic Colleagues: Nine Coworkers To Watch Out For partner
by ForbesWoman, on Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:39am PDT 98 Comments Post a Comment Read More from This Author » Report Abuse ShareretweetEmailPrint
By Meghan Casserly
You can pick your friends; you can pick your job. But you can’t pick your colleagues any more than you can the next assignment to come down from upper management. It’s no surprise, then, that not every colleague is a good one. A recent study cosponsored by TODAY.com and SELF.com revealed that 84% of women have a friend who is “toxic” in their lives—and many of them are found on the job.
And when workplace friendships go sour, job performance can suffer. One in four people in the survey said that ending a workplace friendship at work left them in a strained “working” relationship as well.
“There’s a difference between working with friends and making friends with the people you work with,” says TODAY’s senior editor Julia Sommerfeld on workplace friendships. “Most people don’t get the choice, so you just have to make the best of it.”
In Pictures: Toxic Workplace Friends
The best way to avoid a toxic workplace friendship that could potentially derail your career? Learn to identify the tell-tale signs of the nine most poisonous personality types—and be sure to keep your (at least emotional) distance.
The Big Mouth
Twenty-seven percent of us have had a friend who blabbed our secrets, and at work one slip can be the difference between respect and embarrassment—especially when it comes to the goings-on after the latest company happy hour. A too-talkative cubicle mate can be worse than a public Facebook wall. Keep your personal details and at-work secrets close when you work with an overly social butterfly.
The Bad Influence
The bad influencer is probably your most fun work friend, which could make her the most insidious. The happy-hour-organizing, long-lunch-taking, “one-more-cocktail” having good time pal. Problem is, those bad habits have rubbed off in 23% of survey respondents. So enjoy her company, but be wary of her leaving-early-coming-late attitude. And never stay till last call.
The betrayer will sell you out to the first questioning supervisor who comes your way. Thirty-five percent of survey respondents said that they’ve been thrown under the bus by a friend, and at workplace this toxic pal is most easily spotted as the type who never takes the blame for her own mistakes. You don’t want to be her next scapegoat, do you? Be warned.
The Chronic Downer
“A work buddy who is a chronic downer may actually be the most hazardous to your career—and your mental health,” says Sommerfeld of the 59% of survey respondents who say they know the type. Attitude can be contagious. Having a downer of a friend can take you down a path of negativity and the next thing you know, “you and your friend are having gripe-fests that drain your time and energy.” Worse, management could get wind of your b—- sessions and your reputation could suffer. Make a conscious effort to abstain from complaining with colleagues and workplace friends. If your friendship with this Negative Nancy fizzles once you stop feeding the flames, better a lost friendship that a lost job.
Fifty-five percent of us have a high-horsed pal who is wont to judge our actions. But surprisingly, Sommerfeld says, very few survey respondents placed these critical pals in the workplace. “The judgmental friend phenomenon doesn’t seem to be what really raises hackles at work as much as personality,” she says.
In Pictures: Toxic Workplace Friends
You know the flake—your colleague who always needs to be rescued or calls in sick on the day of a big meeting without so much as sending you an email heads-up. “The flake can be a real time suck and leave you feeling bitter and taken advantage of,” says Sommerfeld. Avoid partnering with this hazardous homie at all costs. Or at the very least, enforce strict daily deadlines so you’re never left in the lurch. Better to be the productivity police than to be left unprepared on the morning of the biggest meeting of your career.
The most commonly cited toxic friend, narcissists are all about themselves. Sixty-five percent of survey respondents have endured an egomaniacal pal, but for the wary worker, they’re easily spotted—and managed. “If you have a narcissistic friend,” says Sommerfeld, “enjoy her elaborate stories and know she’s probably not going to ask how you’re doing in return. Just don’t give her the chance to steal the credit for something [you’ve accomplished] at the office.”
The rival is a friend who is way too competitive, which seems like the biggest workplace threat, but Sommerfeld stresses that there’s a simple “straightforwardness” to a super-competitive pal. “When you’re vying for the same promotion, you know where you stand. You probably aren’t going to leave yourself open with such a friend, especially at work.”
Forty-five percent of survey respondents have friends that serve up compliments with a side-dish of digging, and at work, this can be especially pervasive. “This is the friend who acts like he or she is on your side,” Sommerfeld warns, “but subverts you with backhanded compliments, especially in front of a boss or colleague.” As in: “You did a great job with that RFP, Kaitlyn, it was almost good enough that I’d want to take credit for it myself!”
Read full story “Toxic Colleagues: Nine Coworkers To Watch Out For” on Forbes.com
Apparently at FPD there are some other categories of “Toxic Colleagues” including, “The Murderer”, and “The Accomplice”, “The Criminal”, “The Liar”. I must say, if I knew that I was working with one of these “Toxic Colleagues at my workplace and thank God I am not) I would have to be the “Informer”, “The Truth Seeker” “The Truth Speaker” “The Advocate” “The Voice of Reason”, “The Champion for Justice”
Anyone have any other suggestions for categories for Toxic Colleagues in the workplace and Nontoxic Colleagues in the workplace?
You should write a book!! Whoever is the first one to write a good factual book about Fullerton top to bottom could make a bunch of money!
Has anyone checked as to whether this issue can be brought before a grand jury. California law is that there must be a grand jury impaneled at all times for each county. My understanding of grand juries in general is that they have extremely broad powers. They can conduct investigations, subpoena witnesses, and hand down indictments–all without having to have the district attorney’s permission. In fact, they can investigate the DA. At least that has been their traditional role.
there is more facts that will be brought out in court reference after the fact & before the fact. the whole thing about them working for a month there after is true to a certain extent.. all six + have an IA on them the week the incident took place. jut because you have an IA on you doesn’t always mean your going on admin leave. termination will always be based on the totality of the circumstances.
code of conduct will play a big role for all the officers . that will be brought out in court. All six of these officers will still go to court weather it be civil or criminal and there will be numerous officers testifying against each other ( IE witness or Character witness ) & that will lead to another IA Shit keeps rolling down hill ,,, that’s fact …
You will never see it unless somebody leaks it.
The cops will cop and the City will settle. Nice, neat little packages.
Keep this story alive. Kelly deserves justice! I hope they won’t use his mental illness as an excuse for what they did. He should have been treated with kindness, not violence!
lets all not forget, if there was no video from the city pole this whole thing would have been swept under the rug! Audio recordings would not have been released, technical problems, etc. So lets all realize this abuse will continue. Is the DA investigating criminal Hampton for his false police report? Why is he still getting paid?
They are all getitng paid, even Ramos!!
True. Very true. Ramos and Cici’s checks will stop in the next few months. The rest will get paid and probably return to duty in a few months.
T-RACK IS ON KFI
I read the DA’s report, and it says very briefly and matter-of-factly that Jay Cicinelli and Kenton Hampton’s DAR recorders were turned off.
WHY WERE THEIR RECORDERS TURNED OFF?
Is it any coincidence that the two cops known to be the most corrupt both have their recorders turned off?
Even Ramos still had his recorder turned on – and of course, it recorded him threatening Kelly with the “These fists are going to fuck you up” remark.
So why were BOTH Hampton and Cicinelli’s recorders turned off?
Also, I find it downright hilarious that the troll “Reality Is” now suddenly makes the claim that these charges are what he “expected.” Should I dig up the all statements he has been making all along about how none of the officers would be charged? And does anyone remember him saying a couple of days ago “I’ll see you all at the celebration when the officers are exonerated” ? And yet know he’s trying to say that he expected these charges all along.
That’s classic doublespeak. All this time, he had been saying that Kelly Thomas resisted, fought with the cops, and that the cops would be cleared, etc. And now that the DA has charged them, he’s trying to say that he expected these charges. Now he knows that he was on the losing side all along and is hoping that everyone here won’t remember all the bullshit that he was saying earlier. Well, I do remember. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
You were defending these MURDERING cops all along…and now the DA has finally charged at least one of them with outright murder and you’re trying to make yourself look better by saying you expected this. BS. I remember what you said earlier.
“Reality Is”…you lost.
And hey, Jaynbound, whatever happened to your so-called “facts” that you claimed would clear the cops. Remember? You kept saying “We don’t have all the facts…” like a broken record. Well, now the DA has given us all the facts and proven what we knew all along – that these cops were MURDERERS.
So where are you now, Jaynbound??
Hey hey!! LOL
I’m used to the lies around here and the trumped up lies to make people listen and form false opinions. I also don’t know when people have posted as my name on here. I couldn’t keep up.
But let me prove a lie real quick since it just happened.
Please copy and paste where I said “I’ll see you at the celebration when the officers are exonerated!”. Just want to prove that the lies happen all the time around these parts so I”l just prove one real quick. How about this. I’ll drive to your house right now and give you $100 if you can copy and paste where I put that. Thanks.
I expected what happened today all along. I’ll say it over and over.
Doublespeak in your eyes because lies are common in these parts.
Yes, he resisted. That was proven today. The rest you are making up again. I won’t address that. I’ve said all along if people did wrong they should be punished. I also said all along that I felt two would be charged. I have some cake for you and it’s real cake, not your fake cake.
No, I won.
You didn’t have all the facts. You have some now and you refuse to look at them. You want the facts to turn into lies like you rely on, so you can get all 6 charged. Sorry. Aint’ gonna happen my lover boy.
if he resisted (haven’t seen the tapes) he resisted LEGALLY. read again piggy
Yeah, it was his right!
What about this??? You must have missed it:)
Backstrok’in!!! ” Pretty close to what I expected. ” You are so full of shit. I’m not going to waste my time looking for the exact quote but it was something like…no charges will be filed against anybody. Stupid AND a liar.
what the fuck are you ramblin about?
Reality Is wrote: “Please copy and paste where I said “I’ll see you at the celebration when the officers are exonerated!”.
I don’t even need to look it up, I remember the quote well, and it was pure ambiguity: “See you next week at the celebration.” It does not suprise me that someone here read into that what they wanted to read into it, and the quote became “when the officers are exonerated.” The group-think here is very strong. Soon this would have been accepted fact.
Tony and the rest have managed to whip up some very strong kool-aid. “Come to Father, drink up.” LOL To be critical of FFF’s somewhat, ahem, lack of basic journalistic standards, is heretical and puts one on the “wrong side” of justice.
As you know, I disagree strongly with you regarding your take on Ron Thomas, but I will give you this, at least you never drank the kool-aid. And after the whippings I’ve had to take for having the audacity to, as it turns out, accurately predict not only that the DA would bring serious charges but *when” the charges would come down, blowing the whole do-nothing DA conspiracy theory/mantra to shreds along the way, I’m finding humor in that somebody here would go after you on this issue. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones… ya know?
“read into that what they wanted to read into it” you mean “rational, deductive reasoning” don’t you???? What side of the fence you on baby???? Oh oh.. I know. The dumbass side:)
They say that when AIDs progresses into an advanced stage it causes brain damage and dementia. That must be happening to Reality.
It was not “proven” that he resisted. It was demonstrated that, once he was threatened, he tried to run away. He had only been detained for some reason??? which is still not clear (there was apparently a search of a backpack that yielded nothing). Once he ran away, he was at that time attacked and assaulted, and I believe any struggling on his part was a fight for his life. If you cut off the air supply of a person, the survival instinct will kick in and they will struggle and fight because otherwise, they will die. And he did struggle and fight, and he did die; and while he was struggling and fighting to try to get air into his lungs, he was also simultaneously being delivered extremely painful electroshocks, blows that split open his skin, smashed his cheekbones, broke his ribs, resulted in massive bleeding that left a puddle of blood. I once almost drowned and I can tell you, every ounce of my being was fighting to get my head above water so that I could breathe, I was in a panic. I actually passed out under water and was rescued. Words cannot describe what that felt like but really, that does not compare in my opinion to the horror of what happened to Kelly. To be deprived of air by those who are there to “protect and serve,” to be fighting to get air while at the same time taking multiple, excruciatingly painful blows and tases–I can’t imagine.
Anyway, he was not proven to be resisting. I still want to know what he was under arrest for. Because if he was running away but he was not yet under arrest and he had done nothing besides not hold his hands exactly right during 16 minutes of verbal harrassment, bullying and threats, while his backpack was searched but yielded nothing, then I would say he never resisted arrest, there was no reason for him to be under arrest. This is a strategy that some LE may use–the criminal ones like the F6–intimidate a target, they get scared and run, somehow the running is supposed to be a reason to pursue and attack, and then they are “resisting arrest.” But what was he being arrested for? “Fleeing and eluding” doesn’t work in this scenario, although I know it’s one that bad cops try to use and good judges and defense attorneys can see through.
And there is no way that Wolfe could have not noticed for 16 minutes the putting on of the gloves, the bullying and harassing behavior; I do not believe this was “new behavior” on the part of these officers. I suppose it could be speculated that Wolfe was uncomfortable with what was happening so stepped way with the backpack to distance himself somewhat, but once the action started, he was right there in it. He should be charged along with all the others.
As a Fullerton resident, I’m so happy with the charges to these 2 thugs we call police officers. Justice will be served!
I have felt ill all day about this
Taser reports (WHO fired a taser at Kelly and in what order)
Dispatch logs and proooooooof of a call
Miserable disgusting coverup
Fullerton Buddies Incorporated ain’t gonna do shit to fpdrelesse
Release the video
True!! A guy I worked with got fired and now he’s running for Sheriff in Iowa!
jaybond is cryin’ in his excited delirium book…
‘Reality Is’ should go break some laws so he can get with his lovers. Cincinelli can take out the eye for some front-hole action, then he and Ramos can make poop-babies together. One big happy family.
poop baby is a racist term. Be careful.
lol. I bet you know ALL the racist terms, dontcha?
Really???? YOU being worried about being PC Hahahahahahahahahahahaha:):):):):):):):):):):):) (Not sying that’s OK.)
The one-eyed cop must have been getting a lot of threats against him, looks like he grew that beard for that reason.
THE ONLY THING REPULSING T-RACK IS THE FACT HE’D ACTUA;;Y HAVE TO PROSECUTE SOME VERY DIRTY COPS…..HIS JOB ISN’T OVER TIL WE SAY IT IS!
Yea you tell em moron!
Keep digging people! Charging only two officers is political damage control.
The citizens of Fullerton deserve the gold medal for carrying Kelly’s torch this far. If not for you Kelly would be long gone from memory.
we’re not stopping until there is complete justice
Tony Bushala and Chris Thompson
Well gentlemen.. Two officers were charged, which is what I believed all along. Although most of blanks you filled in with speculation.. I hope K Hampton sues you and your buddies – John and Ken.
Consider putting and end to pushing your agendas on the back of a murdered homeless man.
Tony, how about opening one of your buildings to the homeless.
Chris, if you run for Council, I will not stop until you fail.
Shame on both of you guys..
Kenton Hampton is going to sue who for what now?
Is he going to sue Veth Mam for getting in the way of his swinging fist and having the audacity to not have been guilty of the bogus charges that Hampton testified to?
Is he going to sue Eddie Quinonez for getting his head in between Hampton’s fist and the wall he was banged into, and for daring to not actually be drunk despite being falsely arrested for being drunk in public?
Those will be fascinating lawsuits.
Shame on who?
Again he was found innocent on any and all accounts. You idiots only like our judicial system when it works for your favor! What fuckin idiots
he was found innocent? by whom? he isnt “innocent” of shit- that motherfucker stood by watching, picking his nose, while his pals beat the life out of someone “oh let me get out of the way so all that blood doesnt ruin my new spotless uniform- but dont mind me, carry on”
Again!!! Another fuckin idiot! Have you seen the tape? were you there? Answer”NO” Just another idiot with a computer with no common sense……
Talk so much, know so little! Exactly whats wrong with this society and this country. Educate yourself before opening your mouth or people will figure out that you are as stupid as you look!
WT-you are another idiot wrapped up in a moron -troll face
He has never been tried on the false arrest, brutality, and perjury counts yet so he can’t hae been found innocent “on any and all accounts.” But I have a feeling he will be tried, and then we shall see.
Allen: You need your brother Charlie from Two and a half men to slap some sense into you. Too bad he’s off the air and the boy toy Aston Kucher took his place.
This is simply the first two nails in the coffin…the other four will soon follow and it won’t take near as long as this did.
Never trust Orange County District Attorney Office and its cronies: snakes guarding hen house. I told you so.
Simply Outragous !!
HAMPTON’S LUCK HAS RUN OUT 3 STRIKES RULE, YA KNOW?
RI seems to be losing their recwntly found reasonableness. wonder what happened?
I cried the whole way through the description of what happened that innocent man. Those two cops should be charged with first degree murder. It was premeditated from the beginning when he put the gloves on until the end when he would not help the man. They are getting off way too easy but the only good things that will come out of this is they will got to prison and as soon as the other inmates find out they are cops, their lives will over the same as poor Kelly Thomas. They will be red mean for the inmates. I look for that to happen within a year. The other good to come out of this is Orange County will have the largest lawsuit they ever saw in this country from his family and laws will be changed on how cops approach potential criminals.
I believe that every weapon should be taken from all cops except for their gun. No more tasers and no more night sticks. It’s time to put them away for good.
Well, those two officers that turned off their recording devices should be terminated. The city council needs to look at the reason the devices are on all peace officers. There is no reason for them to ever be turned off while on duty. There should be an extremely harsh punishment for turning it off. Cyclops turned his off on purpose. He should be terminated now before the trial . Why? Because the act of turning off the device is premeditated. This is another reason the civil suit will cost the City of Fullerton huge monies. This could easily beat out the Mardrossian obtained award from LA Sheriff of $24,500,000. Fullerton is a self insured city thanks to the wisdom of the clowns on city council. Huge service cutbacks will be the result of this fiasco. I hope the rest of the officers are terminated (those who watched) in order to save the city some money.
These two Officers had a party that night. The other three are also Guilty as every Officer who acts as an onlooker while their fellow Officers participate in criminal acts. Isn’t this called negligence? Perhaps the Thomas family can sue them personally. No rest until Justice is served fully – for every victim of every Police Officers actions or failure to act.
Sorry to inform all of you, but Cylops Sissynelli is going to get off with LESS than a slap on the wrist. He will probably move in next door to Mark Fuhrman and live happily ever after. His wife and mother will get on the stand and testify that “He was never the same after that LA shooting when He was a rookie. We begged Fullerton PD not to hire him because He was always so angry since He had been shot. That Chief McKinley insisted that He would be fine, He just need to get back on His horse. He never got better, just more and more angry”…A couple of half-assed psychiatrists will testify that He has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and He will not only get off, but Fullerton will pay and pay and pay for hiring a disabled one-eyed whack job. They may even have to pay Cicinelli for not putting him through some sort of therapy to rehabilitate him. Another disability pension? DONT BE NAIVE…HE WILL NOT GO TO PRISON, WAIT AND SEE. (also, Fedupwithmorons-I see you are still using caps, is it hard to see with one eye?)
Like I’ve been saying all along, justice is best served in a court of law; not by a lynch mob.
Nothing ever does happen to cops who kill people. At most, they will do a year or two in jail — more probably, they might be fired. Maybe. Then they’ll just go get a job at some other police department. Depressing but true.
The Fullerton politicians and crooks could care less about actual justice.
They’re only concerned with keeping their high paying jobs and pensions, only need a single scapegoat to do so.
Thanks to all the supports from Orange County District Attorney and powerful police associations.
Also Tony Blowcockis also blew any real chance at getting a fair trial by announcing that little play by play of that nights events. Defense will argue jury and witnesses swayed by Tony’s little press conference today. They are ALL in cahoots. WAKE UP PEOPLE!
bullshit, same as if we saw the video or heard a 911 tape-no different-didnt ruin a thing
Educate yourself. Your ignorance is showing.
Can we see the “Tape” now?
IT’S HARD TO SEE WITH ONE EYE SO I TYPE IN ALL CAPS.
The internet has unfortunately given a voice to many non educated self centered self serving morons!!!
Why would they show you the tape? you are a regular joe fuckin blow! What help if any to Kelly Thomas would that provide?
I think I’ll move in next to Mark Fuhrman in Idaho, write a book and enjoy my fat pension. Maybe I’ll apply at the Coeur d’laine PD.
YOU MAY BE RYTE, SADLY.
Actually, a brain injury, which I assume occurred if he had a gunshot wound to the head that took out his eye, is what is more problematic than the one eye or even PTSD. It can cause impaired impulse control, intermittent explosive disorder, and bipolar type symptoms (hypomanic and manic symptoms that include irritability, anger, rage, lability, impaired judgment and insight, poor impulse control). There is liability for whoever hired him after another agency declared him too disabled to perform the duties of a LEO.
TONY BLOW, DID NOT BLOW HIS ENTIRE WAD OF CARDS TODAY, SOME STUFF HE IS KEEPING CLOSE TO THE VEST, HE CAN’T AFFORD A MISTRIAL.
T-Rack did the bare minimum convene the Grand Jury and compel them to answer
You Sir are a prime example
Great come back….
its true! why are you here if you think we’re all “fucking morons” troll? and commenting- this blog is about Kelly Thomas not your foolish ramblings that make no sense-be gone and snap
What’s the matter pussyboy ? Can’t take the heat? Why the new byline??? Hiding something?? You want to say something to me? Come out of your hiding place and say it! New name because I’ve kicked your ass because you’re so stupid and you have to change identities to save face??
Watchthethrone-eat sh!t and bark at the moon.
that was awesome butthead
it gets better sh!tbag-don’t mess with Merijoe or Cindy.
lol…. uh oh! we have an internet gangster lol lmfao shut the fuck up, fuck you dick suckin merijoe and salad tossin Cindy MC
To the family of this tragedy I wish you the best in times such as this. I’m on the East Coast but no matter what location your story is very disheartening. To think cops who are paid by us decide to take out their hate and aggression on someone that could barely fight back. Just a travesty.
I would ask you to take this tragedy and try and start reform so that cops police other cops. What I’m asking is that when your civil suit is paid out to do your bet to make sure its not the taxpayers checkbook but the FOP Pension.
Let cops pay for the criminal deeds of other cops. Once pensions start to erode you will see cops making sure that bad eggs are brought back down to basic humanity pretty quickly.
Nothing will bring your son back. But I would hope to see enduring changes to how excessive force complaints are paid out by communities.
THE FIX IS IN WITH THE JUDGES. WATCH IN ABOUT 3 YEARS FROM NOW. WHEN ALL IS FORGOTTEN. TAPES GET LOST. WITNESSES RUN FOR THEIR LIFES AND THE UNION HANDS OUT THICK ENVELOPES.
LOL So do YOU:):):):):) LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL Nuff said.
Forgot this…btw…what a SCATHING comeback. That all you got? Bout time I shut you up. Hope it’s for good this time:)
BTW…not sorry. You set yourself up because you’re stupid and you KEEP showing it!
Reality Is, if I didn’t have a life, like you, I could right now dig up quotes about everything you have said from the very beginning. Unfortunately, it will take a little bit of time for me to dig through all the blog comments. So I can’t copy and past one of your quotes on cue. Maybe later tonight I will have time to do that.
However, throughout all of this, here is what you have claimed:
– NONE of the officers will be charged
– (You also DID specifically say the cops would be exonerated)
– The police did not use excessive force
And yet, everything single thing you claimed was proven wrong by the DA’s announcement today.
So tell me, exactly how am I “not looking at the facts”? Based on what the DA himself said, the cops murdered Kelly Thomas…what I have been saying all along.
And you’re going to owe me $100, because I will in fact copy and paste earlier statements you made which completely CONTRADICT what you are trying to say now.
Well, except for the fact that I don’t want you anywhere near my house. But I have a PayPal account, so you can pay the $100 you’ll owe that way.
This is a sign of a completely corrupt Police Department and The City council of Fullerton. The cover up from the beginning.
1- Goodrich publicly acknowledged that Officers suffered broken facial bones in the fight with Kelley Thomas.
2- These cops were allowed to stay on the job on the streets for 4 weeks after the beating of Kelly Thomas. Obviously there was no internal investigation going on at the time.
All signs of a greater problem with the entire Police Department.
Police Officers don’t just snap and beat someone to death. This was a methodical and well acted out beating. Thomas was told what was going to happen to him. This type of behavior takes years of learned behavior. This cop was as well rehearsed as Broadways’ best actors. He had done this before and other cops have been wittiness to his behavior in the past and all have chosen to cover it up. Sergeants, Lieutenant,s Captains and even the Police Chief made a conscious effort to avoid confronting this issue. Your current acting Police Chief, A Captain never even watched the video. Sellers never watched the video, Goodrich never watched the video. Why do you think the video from the Bus was released? Why did an inside source call john and Ken and give a pretty accurate description of what happened the night Kelly was beaten to death? One person and one person only, within the department, was finally sick and tired of the abuses of the Fullerton Police Department. Obviously in fear, this informant helped to fuel the investigation. An investigation that would have never taken place if not for the fact that John and Ken brought this to the public eye.
It’s time for everyone to stop belly aching, If you live in Fullerton then only you can change Fullerton. I am sick of reading all of the uneducated rants from a bunch of babies. No wonder the Police of Fullerton have been able to operate with such impunity. Most everyone here posting and running. It’s one thing to post your emotions, but when was the last time you used you energy to be productive. CHANGE YOUR CITY.
The Fullerton Police Department needs to be shut down. Bring in the OCSD to run the place and get rid of the entire City Council.
…And nevermind the trolls like Reality Is who still can’t see when they’ve lost.
Again, the bigger question is WHY WERE HAMPTON and CICINELLI’S RECORDERS TURNED OFF ???
Because they are criminals that actually believe they are exempt from the rules that the rest of the world must follow. Sociopathic behavior. They turn off their recorders but write the rest of us tickets for not having a front license plate. Would have fit right in in Germany 1939.
The Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division will have the final say with these Fullerton goons in a federal civil rights case – and this may include Fullerton officers not yet charged for dereliction of duty or failure to come to the aid of a citizen in physical danger by: a) not stopping the assault, and b) not properly reporting the assault based on the condition of Kelly Thomas in addition to slow medical response. In additon to all of this, we have FPD witness testimony that officers’ reports were improperly coached, relying on the video instead of memory – which, in all probability, might have landed ‘filing false police reports’ charges against the six officers as well, had the City’s videotape been unavailable. Who would have reported the excessive force witnessed that night if not for the City videotape and the bus stop patrons? And what about the cellular telephones confiscated that night by FPD in an effort to conceal their crime – and which Fullerton cops specifically were involved with that aspect because they should be charged as ‘accessories’ as well. Seems to me, if I were OCDA, this would be prima facia evidence of ‘knowledge that a crime had been committed’ by Fullerton officers, and therefore the only good reason Fullerton officers would be shaking down bystanders for cellular phone video evidence. But the unaddressed problem is the fact that four other officers involved have no charges whatsoever pending and had that City videotape not been available, do you think that ANY of these ‘officers’ would have told the truth? I think not. I’m not at all satisfied with the incomplete handling of this case to date. The fact that the OCDA did not file charges against the other four Fullerton cops sends a TERRIBLE MESSAGE out to ALL police and sheriffs nationwide that if you witness a murder at the hands of your fellow officers while on duty but you were not ‘personally involved’, then the likelihood is that you will not legally be prosecuted. That situation is entirely unacceptable in a civil society. For example, if you and I are together and I commmit a murder accidentally with intent for great bodily injury and you help conceal all those facts, the State will also charge you as an ‘accessory after the fact’; and so we essentially have a justice system for the public at large and yet another justice system for law enforcement. This built in favoritsm is legally flawed / wrong and cannot be allowed to continue. The Rodney King / LAPD case was similar in that a total of 21 officers were standing around watching all the action and none stopped it – NONE of those 21 were charged. What good then, is the police acadamy? Here we are 20 YEARS later and the legal system still is protecting criminally liable officers sworn to: a) uphold the U.S. Constitution and, b) provide a reasonable element of safety for detained suspects. This investigation has a LONG way to go to properly serve the interest of justice. The DOJ is watching.
Well said my friend, and it still remains to be seen whether Tony Blowcockis is on the right side or the wrong side. Seems like the bare minimum to appease the masses.
2 down several more to go! We are not finished! More work to be done.
NOW THE D A CAN BURY THIS INCIDENT AND ENJOY THE MANY BRIBES HE HAS EARNED. IT’S A SHAME.
watchthethrone = jaynbond
Gay Sissynelli = SAVE THE FULLERTON
hi you two…
oops. save the fullerton cops..
all you fuckers talking about “allowed to use deadly force”
JUST PRAY one of them doesn’t pull you and your wife over some night and uses deadly force on you for whatever the reason may be..
There is no .. NONE>. NOT ONE
Excuse for what they did.. When I hear that defense lawyer .. I see red … all pukes..
Fullerton.. how did you let such disgusting people grow so strong in your community
merijoe, I wept while Rackauckas described what happened. I could hardly bear it, but needed to know. I live only a few blocks from the train/bus depot, for 20 yrs. now. I’ve been to six of the protests. My heart is with the people there, and the Thomas family. I weep for Kelly Thomas.
watchthethrone and Reality is
99% of the bloggers on this site are one dimensional. They will never be happy unless any Fullerton Police Officer on the beat on July 5th is crucified.
Most of them are uneducated like merijo, anonymous, and the like.
Tony Bushala made an ass out of himself on a youtube post. I know Chris Thompson personally. Both of them are not worth consideration with their cause. They haven’t done a thing to improve Fullerton. They are bullies and will soon go away.
@Allen posts irrelevant non californian resident complaing about californian residents! Zap!
WHERE IS THE VIDEO
WHERE ARE THEY
HOW COME the three worst cops TURNED OFF THEIR DARS.. .WHO LETS THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS
any who think this was justice are sick.. really sick
any who think this was justice I would invite over for a “watch the kelly thomas murder video repeatedly over and over and over until you were traumatized by reality”
Yes you did say that, I do remember.
Its kinda hard to do though, because the officers have a reputation for lieing and will always make things up. And send a person to jail anyway with all kinds of charges.
They will just beat you up harder.
The video is what changed the case. If there wasn’t a video, all of these officers would have walked.
talk about the Murder .. not about whatever you think is going on..
talk about the holes in the DAs case.. etc..
so simple minded.. Chill out dude!
is admin here??
Nasty trolls talking to themselves on Jones, McKinley, Bankhead & Co
maybe get their IPs
Wrong again. You just don’t know when to quit. “you have a pretty accurate picture” Really???? Funny thing, your post was all about me and completley off topic. Mood swings got you down? Your period making you aggitated and causing a rant? I won’t even try to picture you. Probably wouldn’t even be able to capture all your fabulous physical attributes as well as any of your charming personality traits. But I can say this…it is qiute clear you are a FAILURE! Please, please, please Mr.EYENEVERSAYNO stop being mean to me. I can’t take it anymore!!!!!
I hope this is just a warm of charges. I am not sure if all six should be charged seriously, but I have a feeling majority of them should.
Also, four years for Jay is not even close. He murdered Kelly Thomas in cold blood, no confusion there.
I also would like to know who made the call, if there was one. They spilled an innocent man’s blood.
More charges please, not enough on the plate.
I am sure Ron was happy that charges materialized, but now in retrospect I am sure he feels that it’s not quite enough.
Civilians murder and they get life in prison or the death penalty and this sickos get a charge for maybe a robbery. What about this sick bastard, Hampton, who terrorized Quinonez
Lay off with the personal attacks. You don’t like to receive feedbacks then don’t post on a blog. Obviously you can’t handle criticism otherwise you wouldn’t lower yourself to such a new low. Stay off of this blog, we don’t need your kind here.
What happened to Kelly Thomas happens all the time despite warnings:
NYPD training video YouTube – Positional asphyxia 2003 http://bit.ly/eRBQRq
#DOJ statement in 1995 on avoidable death in restraint or custody: Positional Asphyxia and Sudden Death http://bit.ly/fWyJKg
Asphyxial Death During Prone Restraint Revisited: 21 Cases http://bit.ly/p86G5F
Prone restraint alone, or use of weight on the chest and abdomen, if used at all, should last only seconds. There should NOT be a “struggle” on the ground. People die very quickly in this position. A regular citizen would be charged with manslaughter. The Fullerton 6 should have all been charged.
Open Letter to Fullerton Police Officers:
Those of you who feel this blog is demeaning and nasty to peace officers in general and FPD in particular, I have a challenge for you. One of your own, officer Ramos is in prison and needs help to meet his $1,000,000 bail. I suggest all of you donate $10,000 each and since there are over 100 sworn officers at FPD, that will raise the exact amount needed. This will save Officer Ramos the $80,000 fee from a Bail Bondsman and I know you feel that surely he is not a flight risk to go to Mexico.
This will show true solidarity among brothers and when the case is settled, you will have your money returned. Alternatively, the FPD Union could front the monies for you. Officer Ramos seemed very concerned at the arraignment and this would help alleviate his worries.
By the way, Long Beach has reduced the pension plan costs for their police department. It was in today’s Press Telegram.
Kudos to all that supported justice for Kelly.
I haven’t had a chance to review all the posts so can anyone tell me…
1. Where is Ramos being held? OC Jail?
2. Is he in custody of the sherriff’s dept. or a police dept.?
3. Why was Cicinelli’s bail so low?
@Reality Is having delusions,
Almost entirely everything that the D.A. said today, we ALREADY KNEW.
One of the things that we did NOT know was exactly WHO instigated the attack against Kelly, and exactly which “officers” did what.
We also still don’t know ALL of the details that are shown on the video, and we won’t until the video is released. That is what we are all waiting for. Hopefully, the video has not been altered. However, I do believe it has already been altered, just as the video WAS ALSO ALTERED in the Mitrice Richardson case. http://www.lamag.com/features/story.aspx?ID=1515070
However, Sellers DID see the video, and he still allowed the murderers to patrol the streets and he continued to put citizens in danger by so doing. That is unacceptable and unforgiveable.
We also do NOT know what the DAR recorders on Hampton and Cicinelli might have contained, and we never will, since they (very conveniently for them) turned them off. This tells me that they KNEW what they were about to do/were doing was illegal.
What we ALREADY KNEW BEFORE TODAY:
1. The “officers” KNEW who Kelly Thomas was and they KNEW that Kelly was mentally ill.
2. Kelly was THREATENED with a vicious beating and Kelly was INTENTIONALLY PROVOKED into running for his life.
3. Kelly did NOT do anything wrong.
4. Kelly was NOT intoxicated, nor had any illicit drugs in his bloodstream.
5. Kelly was NOT armed or dangerous.
6. Kelly DID NOT present any danger to the “officers.”
7. Kelly attempted to run away from the threat of a brutal beating and he resisted LEGALLY, out of FEAR FOR HIS LIFE.
8. Kelly was bashed into the concrete curb, choked, punched, kicked, beaten, knee dropped on his face and neck, bludgeoned multiple times on his head, piled on top of by several officers, Tasered multiple times, Kelly informed “officers” that he could not breathe while they were all piled on top of him and blood was filling his punctured and collapsed lungs and throat, there was a very large pool of blood on the ground, yet the “officers” continued to beat an unarmed, defenseless man to death.
9. Kelly was STRUGGLING to PRESERVE his LIFE, while he was being sat on, his lungs were being punctured by broken ribs, his lungs were collapsed and filled with blood and Kelly was being tortured by Tasers and bludgeoned TO DEATH.
10. Kelly Thomas screamed out in pain; Kelly Thomas screamed for help and he begged for his life LOUDLY while he was HELPLESS and UNARMED on the ground, while he was being sat on by several “officers,” and while other “officers” stood by and watched, or assisted in the continued brutality, as Kelly was BEATEN TO DEATH, EVEN AFTER he was ALREADY motionless, silent, and unconscious.
11. There were 6 armed, trained, bullet proof vest wearing “officers” and only 1 small, defenseless, unarmed, mentally ill Kelly who was wearing no shirt, who was desperately trying to preserve his life from a merciless beating to the death, by 6 large, overweight, THUGS.
12. Kelly was BRUTALLY murdered, under color of authority.
13. You CONSTANTLY tried to defend the THUGS who were wearing badges, who MURDERED Kelly Thomas, in the weeks after Kelly’s murder, and you are STILL trying to do so, even now.
14. You have sounded like a PAID SHILL for the FPD, or other LE, in the weeks after Kelly Thomas’ murder, and YOU STILL DO.
15. The city council and the mayor have done NOTHING to show leadership in the weeks since Kelly’s murder, and they STILL aren’t.
16. Sellers, and Hamilton, did NOTHING to show any real leadership in the weeks following Kelly’s murder, and they STILL aren’t.
17. Citizens protested to show displeasure with city leaders and L.E. during the weeks following the Murder of Kelly Thomas, and we will CONTINUE to do so.
I just heard on the news tonight that Ramos is in a separate cell in santa ana under 24 hr watch-his lawyer will be back monday to try to reduce bail and “cont believe he was charged with murder”
What? He can’t believe he didn’t get away with murder this time. Oh, shucks. The audacity of this people. Well maybe if Ramos did this to someone he cares about he would start believing really quick.
Any cop that becomes a
I would sincerely appreciate the opportunity to beat RI and eye within inches of their lives yelling ever bullet point you just listed into their ears the whole time..
taser butt to your nose
boot to the lungs
taser butt to your skull
taser butt to your skull
I wouldn’t cringe one muscle if I saw either of you ran over by a train or beat to death by the FPD
MeYou wrote: “I would sincerely appreciate the opportunity to beat RI and eye within inches of their lives… I wouldn’t cringe one muscle if I saw either of you ran (sic) over by a train or beat to death by the FPD”
Whoa, now, settle down skippy.
A few days ago you were telling folks to bring firearms to the Kelly Thomas Memorial Concert, and now this?
Dude, listen to me, I’m serious, you need to get help for whatever it is you got goin’ on in your head. That is some really sick hate there, and what is it that I’ve done to you exactly? Disagreed with you on the interwebz? Seriously?
“MeYou wrote” and (sic) is redundant asshole. Oh, I know. You knew that already. But you don’t spend your time correcting people, right? You have SERIOUS issues.
As mentioned above not enough but it is a start. Maybe the Feds will come in and nail all six, after the possibility these pricks are found not guilty, because the jury will be; a) stacked or b) intimidated.
where r they
DITTO.. and look up the word Seppuku
I’m happy with the announcement of the charges. As Ron Thomas was expecting nothing, sadly so was I. Someone now is responsible. Those saying he (Ramos) can get off, I don’t see how . This is clear cut.
If you don’t see how your vision is worse than Cicinelli’s.
Ramos didn’t deliver the death blow, his lawyer will argue; Cicinelli did that. And Cicinelli’s lawyer will point to the other cops who piled on and say why my client?
And then the jury will be puzzled, straining to think, desiring to go home to watch reality TV which is ever-so-much-more fun than reality.
Cicinelli should have been charged with murder, too. The other four should have been charged with manslaughter, aggravated assault, etc. Then let ’em squirm for a few months.
Joe, Ramos doesn’t have to deliver the ‘death blow’ under California’s strict Felony Murder Rule. In fact, everything that happened here is a text book example of its application. If you are not familiar with the rule, it came about as a result of case law established in People v. Ford, where the CA Supreme Court ruled that “homicide during the commission of felony” can be prosecuted as second degree murder. This is precisely why T-Rack charged Ramos with Felony Involuntary Manslaughter; it was this act, taking place as it did during a homicide that opened the door wide to second degree murder charges.
It’s also worth noting that the coroner listed ‘homicide’ as the cause of death, underscoring something I’ve been posting about here and getting beat up over for weeks: The importance of waiting for the autopsy report before charging Kelly Thomas’ killers with the most serious charges available.
Without the coroner’s ruling of homicide the Felony Murder Rule would not apply to Ramos, and the wailing and gnashing of teeth here over far lesser charges having been filed would have been deafening. It’s bad enough as it is, despite the fact that yesterday T-Rack presented a passionate and very solid case for MURDER against the police officer responsible for Thomas’ horrible death, Ramos having “escalated the lawful detainment (of Thomas) to an unlawful use of force.”
As for the rest of your post, filing on the other officers charges which would never stick just to “let ‘em squirm for a few months” suggests to me that you yourself have been watching a little too much TV. What went on here yesterday in OC is real, and historic. The DA’s closing argument-like performance and his actions shocked even T-Rack’s harshest longtime critics, court watchers, lawyers and journalists alike. Even Scott Moxley of the OC Weekly called it T-Rack’s “finest hour.” Everybody outside of the mob on this site gets it. Why don’t you?
Silence in the court, the court is in session!
“The judge ordered both officers to surrender their guns within 24 hours.”
You may be walking free today Kenton Hampton…but I heard faint steps today that tell me that those steps are about to get louder…much louder. This is what your cissinellies is going to look like when he’s winking at youfrom thecell next door ‘ )
I would have thought they had surrendered their guns when placed on administrative leave. Also I can’t remember where I read it as I have read so many blogs but it was said that Cicinelli was depressed and suicidal. His piece should have been taken away long ago. Does this surrender include their personal artillery?
I just can’t understand how someone who is “disabled” and receiving 70% of his salary from the LAPD could be disabled enough to get disability benefits yet well enough to have a whole different full-time job! No wonder this State, County, and LA are all going bankrupt!
I hope Ron is finding some peace tonight.
fucking punk.. LEGAL to protect themselves you numbskull
dust off your helmet cams and concealed carry…
looks like it really is something needed in Fulleton, CA
both pigs **for the record I never use that word to describe police officers unless it is the FPD6 or anything at the fullerton, ca headquarters..
both pigs already got BAIL? ..
While Kelly Thomas is murdered and dead.. they get bail etc
btw.. you are about to lose your composure jay.
I call BS! in regards to Wolfe and Hampton. Wolfe was there the entire contact and even in the struggle. Hampton could have stopped this, but we know his track record! I hope these guys loose there job and the civil rights lawsuits catches up to these guys. I don’t want to see these guys back on our streets. These guys are not who we want to represent our city. I am sure when these investigations are complete, the officers not charged keeps there jobs and gets reassigned to the gang unit like the other dip shit Ren!
The DA explained why Wolfe “cannot be charged at this time” very clearly here:
The OC DA wrote: Based on the available evidence and all of the information reviewed related to this case, the evidence does not show that Officer Wolfe was aware of the physical threat made by Ramos against Thomas, which escalated the lawful detainment to an unlawful use of force. The evidence does not show that Officer Wolfe was aware upon joining the altercation that he was assisting in the restraint of a victim who had been subjected to excessive force by Ramos. Due to the lack of evidence to show knowing participation in an unlawful act, no charges can be filed against Officer Wolfe at this time.”
I don’t like it either, but the fact is Wolfe and the others would simply get up in court and say “I thought I was just doing my job, apprehending a highly combative suspect. I had no idea Kelly Thomas had been threatened by Officer Ramos and that he was literally fighting for his life.” Oh and then Wolfe and the others would add in the usual stuff like they ‘feared for their lives,’ were ‘afraid the suspect would get hold of one of their weapons,’ etc.
If the DA can’t prove the others heard the threat, he can’t charge ‘em and win. Cicinelli being the exception, because the surveillance video and taser records apparently show him administering fatal blows and excessive taser shocks to Thomas. For that we can be thankful.
Actually, you’re wrong (I know — it’s a shock — you are NEVER wrong and much, much smarter than all the other posters on this board whom you talk down to on a regular basis, but it happens).
The DA would NOT have to prove that Wolfe or any of the other officers heard the threat since there was a quite a lot of other unlawful contact BESIDES the verbal threat — including, but not limited to, bludgeoning a restrained, pinned suspect with the butt of the taser EIGHT times in the face or head.
I’m pretty sure several officers were on the scene and must have witnessed him do that and did NOTHING to stop it (even after there was no physical or audible response from Kelly — making it felonious conduct, without a doubt).
You took the words right out of my mouth!!! I was thinking about how irrational “eye” posts and it came to me like a bolt of lightening!!!! He THINKS he is the smartest person in the blog/room/city/world. There is just NO getting through to him. He is a narcissistic sociopath. Just read his posts. I know, I know that, you don’t know, me,me,me, I, I, I, I know all the facts(which btw are open to my interpretation). Did I forget multipersonality??? Just not worth the time.
MAB: LAPD is a self insured entity and not under the PERS system thus allowing anyone who receives a pension from them (LAPD) to continue working under the PERS system which is most departments.
LAPD screwed Cicinelli over by promising him just about everything but the Chief’s job and then renigged on all of it when the new Chief (Parks) took over a few months later from Willie Williams. The board, realizing that he had been screwed over, voted to give him a pension. That’s how! It was a very long story but he earned it!
There’s a good reason why LAPD psychs found Cicinelli mentally incompetant to work for them after his battery and this is why. Kelly was already subdued when Cicinelli happened upon the scene. Why on earth did he think it was necessary to tase and beat repeatedly on the near dead man? Was he taking out revenge on Kelly for what happened to him? Was there a moment of “flashback” on his own ordeal? He knew full well he did not belong back on the streets with a gun in his holster and a badge on his chest. He knew full well he was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode but his selfish PTSD’d self would not accept that and cried to Mr. McKinley because the big boys would not allow him in their playground anymore. And McKinley unlocked his gate despite what he knew. I am surprised the rest of the department did not become outraged by this decision. It wasn’t if something would happen with Cicinelli, it was only ~when~. I am absolutely repulsed.
At the department I worked for, they used the hood of the trunk but they also did it in view of the suspect so as not to be accused later of planting evidence or theft. I still believe Mr. Thomas was set up. None of this is cut and dried. I think now that charges have been made formal, canaries will begin to sing. And yes, DA Rackauckas did leave the door open for more charges to be made, if necessary, during the rest of the investigation. I cannot and refuse to believe the other 4 and their superiors will escape this scot free.
I think of Kelly every day.I know all of the officer’s WILL be CHARGED.They all will pay for what they did to this helpless man.
Jay thinks like Jay 😉
Jay despised both kelly and his father and feels Sinny was just doing his job.
^^look above this where i called out eyeneverhaveaheart letting it know it is showing its jaynazibond side..
Voila.. coincidence.. jaynazibond shows up
MeYou: “Voila.. coincidence.. jaynazibond shows up”
You really do need help. Your paranoia, mixed with your advocacy of carrying firearms, as well your clearly expressed desire to beat people you disagree with on the internet to ‘within an inch of their lives,’ is truly disturbing. You’ve gone so far over the bend that you’ve become that which you rail against. If you were to go ahead bring it, you and Ramos would make great cell mates!
For the record, I am not jaynbond, I do note agree with most of anything he says, I do not work for the DA or law enforcement, I am a private citizen and business owner living in South OC for nearly 20 years.
And I have a documented history of advocating for justice in the Kelly Thomas murder well before ever showing up here on FFF. Here’s a post of mine on the Voice Of OC from more than six weeks ago, illustrating my state of mind at the time very well:
“This is rapidly turning into the most shameful event in modern OC history. “–EyeNeverSayNo posted at 8:36 am on Sat, Aug 6, 2011
Again, please step away from the computer and get help, you really need it.
THE POLICE UNION AND THE CITY BOSSES WILL BE OUT THERE TODAY ON THE STREETS SHAKING DOWN THE BUSINESSES AND THEIR CRIMINAL PARTNERS FOR THE MILLION DOLLAR BAIL AND THEN RAMOS WILL JUMP BAIL AND HIDE OUT IN MEXICO UNTIL THIS GOES AWAY.
Maybe the 15 years to life will scare Ramos into ratting out other cops who have done dirt and got away with it….remember the cop who got busted stealing cocaine and ratted on his “fellow brothers in blue”? Yeah I’ll bet he starts ratting to save his own hide.
I also blame the academy because that’s the way the train! There were certain instructors back a few years ago who trained the recruits this way. This was one of their favorite sayings, “niceness is a sign of weekness! ” You can ask the first 25 classes that graduated from the local academy. The instructors also hated females and one would do whatever he had to do to get the females out! This is the God’s truth!!!!!
Someone says that Cicinelli is depressed??? Let him keep his guns and do the job for us and save the tax payers money all the way around.
Gee, wonder if Kelly’s parents, siblings, and loved ones are depressed? Or the good people of Fullerton and their children?
NO NO NO! I want to see him sit in that courtroom squirming trying to defend himself. To feel the burn of 2000 eyes on his back watching him try and escape prosecution as the video shows every bit of proof of his enormous guilt. The video definitely WILL be played at the hearing….unfortunately it did not catch him from his “good” side.
The upside of this is Cicinelli will never be a gun carrying police officer again even if not convicted. Kelly’s death saved other victims of police abuse at the hands of Cicinelli.
Hampton should be removed from his post as well.
Any one of those officers could’ve pulled Cicinelli off Kelly. They are accessories to the murder since without the final tasers, blows and knee drops Kelly may have survived the initial beating.
I believe they went light on Cicinelli due to his previously being shot and maimed. Too bad, he should’ve stayed home and tended a garden or watched TV.
Lots of people don’t get to “live their dream” of doing x, y and z.
Bottom line, Cicinelli shouldn’t have been given the power to endager others due to being visually and mentally incapacitated.
These two cops didn’t even kill their victim, but they’re facing harsher charges and more years in prison than 5 out of the 6 Fullerton cops who were involved in Thomas’ murder.
Where does one find a copy of the coroner’s report? I noticed it was not included in the DA’s press release.
I hope the FBI brings charges against T-Rack for not charging the 4 murder accomplices
Advocating “legally” carrying a gun as your right as a US citizen. I assume you know US Citizens can legally carry a concealed weapon when they have gone through the process to have that right?
good try again.. the inches of their life was in reference to how the cops treated kelly and how you try to do all you can to make it seem like this DA is really doing all he possibly can to make the citizens feel safe
I feel even less safe to know he didn’t bring charges against any of the others.
BUT.. I will bet you will find a way to say he did all he could.
Does he just not have the energy or care to prosecute the other 4?
I have been following this story for over a month now and this will be my first post, so here is my take: The decision by D A Rackauckas to only charge 2 officers and not all six. My heart says all six should be in jail but my mind can understand his decision based on the facts that can be proved in a court of law. It will be a long time before this case goes to trial and allot can happen between now and then but if the D A statements are true then there is no way the two officers could get off. All that is needed is a jury that will follow the law.
In the case of officer Ramos: Kelly was approached by two officers was told to sit on the curb Kelly complied, they made a request to search his backpack, Kelly complied, Kelly was told to sit with his legs out and hands on his knees at first Kelly complied then would lean back on his hands when ordered again to sit with his legs out with hands on his knees Kelly said well with is it ( “legs straight or hands on my knees”) all the prosecution has to prove is if a reasonable person would take this as an act of defiance or confusion, after complying to sitting on the curb and having his personal property searched I would think a reasonable person would conclude confusion.
In regards to the threat by officer Ramos was it necessary just because Kelly could not sit still even after complying to the other requests, I think a reasonable person would say no ( when I was a child I could not sit still for anything my parents called me fidgety ).
Now the big one would a reasonable person feel physically threatened in Kelly’s situation (“now, see my fists ? They are getting ready to f— you up”) if the answer is yes then Kelly had every right to protect him self, and the actions of officer Ramos from that point on was illegal and he should be held accountable. Kelly tried to run away from officer Ramos after being physically threatened not stand and fight. I think a jury of reasonable people will have no problem with this one.
As for officer Cicinelli my heart say first degree murder but my mind sees the D A reasoning behind the charges being filed, there is no way to prove that Cicinelli knew Kelly was acting in self defense so what must be proved is did the officer act in a way that would cause unnecessary harm to Kelly, the key word here is unnecessary. Would a reasonable person believe officer Cicinelli had no choice but to knee Kelly in the head twice then tase him 4 times then beat Kelly in the face with his taser all the while other officers were laying on top of Kelly, all the time Kelly was begging for mercy. I think a reasonable jury would have no problem with this one.
So i feel the D A filed charges that would have a very high probability of conviction. This in no way is showing support for the D A, in my heart I don’t believe it would have gone this fare if not for the citizens of Fulerton and the vast media attention , great job to all !!!!
Just a side note, I am not a lawyer or anything even close so if I’m off base on anything feel free to correct me..
The statement that tony r made about Kelly not relaxing and letting them put his arm behind his back is inncorect. As an eyewitness to most of the altrication from close up I can tell you that Kelly was pinned to the ground at all times and was not in a position to move his arm in any direction. He was held from every and and pinned down and never once showed any signs of non compliance. Verbaly you didn’t hear any sounds of noncomplicance. It seems that this was staged to make it appear like he was resisting.
Thank you for your comment. Could you see if Kelly was on his face or on his back? Did they turn him over? If so, when? What was Wolfe doing? Did Hampton hit, or tase Kelly?
Could you see if Kelly was trying to “thrash around, struggle, etc.?” Of course, we all know that Kelly had every right to struggle and fight, and he was only struggling to preserve his own life and to breathe and to protect his head.
But, I just don’t really know how hard, or how much Kelly could have possibly even “resisted” when he was being sat on and pinned down by two or three or four overweight cops, and how hard could he have struggled when is body was completely paralyzed by repeated Tasering, and how hard could he really “resist” when his ribs were broken, his lung collapsed and filling with blood, he was being choked out, and he just had his head smashed into the curb? The whole brutal murder was so over the top that I don’t know how the D.A. can say that the four officers couldn’t have known that Kelly was legally resisting, because they didn’t hear Ramos’ threat to Kelly.
In my mind, they DID NOT even need to hear Ramos’ threat to be able to see that a man was being murdered right in front of their eyes, and to see that Kelly was not a threat to the officer’s lives. They could all HEAR Kelly begging for his life. They KNEW he was not a threat! Just look at that pool of blood and tell me that they seriously thought that Kelly would be capable of standing up and hurting any of them. What a joke. What a set up. What a cover up. What a miscarriage of justice.
It would seem that the officers feel that “murder by cop” is acceptable if someone is “resisting” even if they are “resisting” because they can’t breathe, or because they have just had their head bashed in, and been tased multiple times, etc. The cops don’t possess any humanity or common sense AT ALL.
None of it makes any sense to me. I think that after Kelly had his head smashed into the curb, at the very beginning, he would have been very disoriented and unable to resist or run away. I think that Kelly needed an ambulance after that first crushing blow to his head on the curb!!
HOW could Wolfe and Hampton, etc NOT have KNOWN that Kelly was in dire need of medical help- just by seeing all of the blood on the ground and after kicking him in the ribs, etc? They are “professionals” and they KNOW exactly how much physical damage they are doing to a person’s body. I believe they were TRYING to murder Kelly.
This was NOT their first rodeo, and they had to have KNOWN that they were KILLING Kelly. How can they rationalize killing Kelly when they all knew he was unarmed? Not even wearing a shirt? 6 against 1 skinny guy? HOW can they rationalize NOT stopping this MURDER?
They are all guilty. If charges against them are never filed and if they are never convicted of anything; I will never trust another cop again, ever. Not until justice is served.
I will have to see the video if they ever hope to convince me otherwise.
If you are a witness who disclosed what you saw to authorities, then please let me commend you now. I can honestly say that I would find it a scary proposition to have to tell that I witnessed 6 police officers beat an innocent man to death in that town because then I would be afraid of retaliation, especially considering the obvious corruption of the police department and city government. So thank you, on behalf Kelly, his family, and other citizens like myself who believe in truth and justice. Thank you to all 153 of you.
an he has had months to get his story straight watching many videos
but we are told he is a man of great honor and will fight those cops tooth and nail to make sure justice is served
the fact that 4 are still free with no charges scares me very much
He put bail at 25k for Jay.. that should tell you A LOT
Verbally what I heard was fear, panic, nothing that indicated to me that Kelly was in any mindset but to comply.
KELLY WAS SCREAMING OUT OF FEAR AND RAGE AT WHAT WAS BEING DONE TO HIM, IF IT WERE NOT FOR RAMOS AND SISSYNELLI, AND KELLY BEING IN A BETTER PHYSICAL CONDITION, MAY HAVE REALLY GIVEN THESE THUGS A FIGHT!
IT’S DIFFICULT TO SEE WITH ONLY ONE EYE, SO I LIKE TO USE ALL CAPS. WHAT SUCKS IS WHEN I AM BEATING SOMEONE WITH THE BUTT OF MY TAZER AND BLOOD SPLATTERS IN MY ONE GOOD EYE. WHEN THAT HAPPENS I AM BLINDED AND I HAVE TO JUST KEEP BEATING AND BEATING UNTIL THE VICTIM (AHEM SUBJECT) STOPS MOVING.
If it were for that nut case Reagan, we wouldn’t have schizophrenic homeless people dying on the streets. Sorry, but that it the truth.
don’t reveal more about yourself than we care to know
I am amazed at minority groups who are posting now like this is the first time there has been any mention of this incident. All you people, go to Youtube, etc and see that we have been posting before we had any identity of the the cops involved.
Maybe some did not know about this blog before. It’s good if people continue to become aware and get involved. It is the momentum from the public outcry, the wonderful work of FFFF for putting it out there, that has shined a light into the darkest places of Fullerton, and that is a good thing.
WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT FOR MARDOSSIAN TO POST THE AUTOPSY RESULTS. WE ALL KNOW THE DA WON;T DO IT, THEY HAVE WAY TOO MUCH TO HIDE! I DID A COUPLE OF CASES FOR A WRONGFUL DEATH BY POLICE/MEDICAL, AND I REC’D COPIES OF THE AUTOPSIES WITH THE POLICE AND HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR REPORTS. WE JUST HAVE TO PLAY A WAITING GAME.
Ramos incited the whole incident which led to him and the other 5 beating and/or suffocating Kelly to death. To say the others were not involved/responsible is like saying the sun never rises. To simply whisk away their guilt by stating “apparently they showed up later” would be insane. I believe more charges will be forthcoming if not by the DA’s office, then by one of the other agencies enacting their own investigations.
Let me ask this, wouldn’t any of us know when a person is being beaten to death in front of us? Do the murderers have to yell out, “now I am murdering someone.” Where in the hell is the common sense in all of this. You mean to tell me this 4 officers who day in and day out see all kinds of altercations don’t know when a person is being murdered. Are they that stupid? Let ask this, in what department do alleged suspects get beaten in the head and face into restraint or a handcuff? You mean to tell me the stupid 4 couldn’t tell the difference between bashing someone head and restraint. It’s more likely that beating someone merciless is a standard, routine, acceptable procedure in this department for dealing with alleged suspects.
Insteading of rooting out abuses and corruption, the city council and downward are concerned with covering up. Oh, poor officers moral. The hell with officers moral, a man was murdered you stupid idiots. This idiots should never be in charge of anything much less people or cities. Drive this idiots out their positions and put in people that are not corrupt and who will be responsive to their bosses, you.
And what’s with this covering up police officers’ abuses and complaints against them. People have the right to know what kinds of idiots are out there with a loaded weapon and the authority to take away our civil liberites.
All professions try to cover their asses with, oh no the public doesn’t need to know this. Doctors, police officers all cover up for each other while unbeknowst to us we could be walking into a land mine at any time.
No one can argue with what you are saying. The problem is that corruption is more complicated than just “changing out the bad ones”. To really appreciate this problem, look up the term, Regulatory Capture.
By Robert Faturechi, Los Angeles Times
September 23, 2011
Almost half the people shot at by Los Angeles County sheriff’s deputies after reaching toward their waistbands turned out to be unarmed, according to a study released Thursday.
“Waistband shootings” are particularly controversial because the justification for the shootings can conceivably be fabricated after the fact, according to the county monitor’s report, which was commissioned by the county Board of Supervisors and which analyzed six years of shooting data.
The monitor was careful to point out that the report wasn’t indicating that deputies were being dishonest, simply that those shootings left the department vulnerable to criticism.
Interactive: Officer-involved killings since 2007
Merrick Bobb, who was hired as a special counsel to county supervisors after a 1992 report exposed serious problems in the department, also found an increase in shootings in which deputies didn’t see an actual gun before firing. In those cases, the suspects may have had a weapon but never brandished it.
Those shootings jumped from nine in 2009 to 15 last year, according to the report. Last year also saw the highest proportion of people shot by deputies who turned out to be unarmed altogether.
The Sheriff’s Department already requires its patrol deputies to do scenario-based shooting training every two years. According to the report, though, almost a third of the deputies who shot at people before seeing an actual gun failed to meet that training requirement.
According to the report, the number of officer-involved shootings generally correlates with the criminal homicide rate. But in the last two years, as the homicide rate in Los Angeles County has fallen, the number of Sheriff’s Department shootings has risen.
In one case, deputies came across a narcotics suspect sitting in his car outside his house. When the 35-year-old man saw the deputies, he appeared to reach under his seat. One of the deputies thought he saw a gun, covered by a piece of cloth. The man then sat up, holding the object to his chest, prompting the deputy to shoot him. The man was killed but no drugs or weapons were found, only a pair of jeans. The county eventually paid $750,000 to the victim’s family.
The analysis also found that 61% of suspects who were shot at by deputies were Latino, 29% black and 10% white. Even compared to Sheriff’s Department arrest rates, Latinos and blacks are overrepresented, the study concluded.
In shootings in which deputies shot at a suspect before seeing an actual gun, all but two of the suspects were black or Latino.
The report expressed “deep concerns” specifically about the sheriff’s Century Station, which is responsible for one of the rougher swaths of the department’s jurisdiction, spanning Lynwood and unincorporated areas of Florence, Firestone, Walnut Park, Willowbrook and Athens Park.
Over the last 15 years, that station’s deputies have fired their guns the most frequently, almost twice as often as those at any other station. More than a quarter of the sheriff’s deputies who have been involved in multiple shootings work at Century, according to the report, even though the station represents only 8% of the department’s sworn patrol force.
Sheriff’s spokesman Steve Whitmore said that the department takes the report seriously and that Sheriff Lee Baca is studying its findings with his executive staff.
Whitmore said that the training issue raised in the report is “a real one” but that a massive budget cut and subsequent overtime cuts are partly to blame.
The racial breakdown of suspects in deputy shootings, he said, also has the potential for misinterpretation.
“Even Merrick Bobb says … it will be a serious error for anyone to conclude from this report that LASD deputies intentionally shot any individual because that person was black or Latino. The conclusion that this is raced-based is erroneous and shouldn’t even be hinted at.”
The concerns the monitor raised with the Century station, Whitmore said, can be attributed to the highly concentrated, gang-ridden neighborhoods that deputies must patrol.
“These communities include some of the most volatile in the county,” Whitmore said.
Among the report’s other findings:
• Deputies firing their guns off duty are more likely to be fresh out of the academy. More than half of off-duty shootings involved deputies with less than three years on the job.
• Deputies shooting at animals spiked recently, with 62 last year, more than double the number several years before.
• All deputies involved in multiple shootings in recent years were men.
Recording of Fullerton cop is key in Kelly Thomas beating case
A threat recorded by Fullerton Officer Manuel Ramos himself is key to the Orange County district attorney’s decision to file a second-degree murder charge in Kelly Thomas’ death.
Kelly Thomas in a 1998 family photo. Thomas had an encounter with Fullerton police in July, was beaten and later died. An officer has been charged with second-degree murder.
Two Fullerton police officers charged in homeless man’s death
Convicting an officer is a tough challenge, experts say
Councilman says he hired officers charged in Kelly Thomas case
By Joel Rubin and Richard Winton, Los Angeles Times
September 23, 2011
Before reaching the decision this week to charge a Fullerton police officer with murder, Orange County prosecutors re-created his fatal encounter with a homeless man from dozens of witness statements, footage from security cameras and cellphone videos.
The piece of evidence that sealed the decision, however, came from an unexpected source: the officer himself.
An audio recorder carried by Officer Manuel Ramos captured a chilling exchange between him and Kelly Thomas, in which Ramos told the mentally ill man that he was going to beat him. Those irrefutable words, said Dist. Atty. Tony Rackauckas, proved Ramos was intent on hurting the defenseless Thomas and led Rackauckas to file the second-degree murder charge.
Fullerton is one of a growing number of police agencies around the country that require officers to use audio or video devices to document their interactions with people. Although the technology most frequently helps exonerate officers accused of misconduct or provides evidence during a trial, police observers say, the Fullerton case is a somewhat rare and dramatic illustration of how officers’ self-surveillance can serve as a powerful check on police.
“It can cut both ways,” said Merrick Bobb, president of the Police Assessment Resource Center. “A recording allows the community and the department to see or hear what happened for themselves, instead of being forced to choose between believing the officer or the citizen. In departments that are trying to rebuild trust with the communities they serve, that can be a very effective tool.”
Ramos, 37, turned on the department-issued digital recorder strapped to his equipment belt when he responded to a call of suspicious behavior at a bus depot shortly after 8:30 p.m. July 5. The department’s policy calls for officers to activate their recorders, about the size of a deck of cards, almost any time they engage someone while on duty. The policy has been in place for over a decade, Sgt. Andrew Goodrich said.
The 10-year police veteran found Thomas in the parking lot. Ramos, according to the district attorney’s account, did not search Thomas for weapons because it was clear he was unarmed. Ramos grew increasingly hostile as a disoriented Thomas struggled to follow his commands.
At one point, Ramos was seen on video footage of the incident standing over Thomas and pulling on latex gloves.
“See my fists?” Ramos is heard saying on the recording. “They are getting ready to f— you up.”
Investigators’ ability to match what Ramos said to what was seen on the various videos was a critical part of the deliberations about what charges to pursue. At a news conference Wednesday, Rackauckas called Ramos’ words, “a turning point — a defining moment.”
“Ramos was telling Kelly Thomas that this encounter had changed from a fairly routine police detention into an impending beating at the hands of an angry police officer,” he said.
Ramos and several other officers went on to beat Thomas with a baton, to punch and knee him repeatedly as he was pinned down, to shock him multiple times with a stun gun, and to strike him in the face with the stun device eight times, Rackauckas said. After several days in the hospital, Thomas died of a crushed thorax, Rackauckas said. No traces of drugs or alcohol were found in his body.
Along with the second-degree murder charge, Ramos was accused of involuntary manslaughter and remained in custody in lieu of $1 million bail after his arraignment was postponed Wednesday. If convicted, he could face a life prison term. A second officer, Cpl. Jay Cicinelli, 39, was charged with involuntary manslaughter and using excessive force; Cicinelli faces a maximum prison term of four years. He pleaded not guilty and was released on $25,000 bail.
Like many other police departments, Fullerton once installed video recorders in its patrol cars. Department officials, however, found the cameras too limited since they captured only encounters that occur in front of the vehicle, Goodrich said. Instead of continuing to invest in expensive in-car cameras, Fullerton police officials opted to switch to audio recorders that generally cost a few hundred dollars each.
Despite the limitations, many police departments have continued to use in-car video systems. After years of funding and technical delays, the Los Angeles Police Department is in the midst of a multiyear, $20-million plan to install cameras in all of its patrol cars. The LAPD does not require officers to carry audio recorders.
There are no definitive figures on the number of agencies with mandatory recording policies. There are several in California, including the cities of Irvine, Riverside and Sierra Madre. Puma, the company that manufactures the recorder used by Fullerton, lists about 200 law enforcement agencies as clients on its website.
In recent years, a few companies have begun selling small video cameras that hook over an officer’s ear or attach to his or her chest.
In Oakland, for example, about two-thirds of the department’s roughly 650 officers are equipped with the video recorders, and officials expect to outfit the others in coming months. Police there must activate the cameras, which also capture sound, for all types of stops and download the footage at the end of shifts.
“We wanted something to really capture the action,” Sgt. Holly Joshi said.
Pierce Murphy, the ombudsman for the police department in Boise, Idaho, said officers there have had to use audio recorders for more than a decade. In the vast majority of the cases — roughly 80% to 85% of the time, he estimated — recordings serve to disprove claims that an officer acted inappropriately. Watchdogs and officials from other departments gave similar estimates.
But Ramos is not the first officer to have a recording used against him. In Boise, officers are occasionally heard using profanity, which violates department policy, and an officer was caught in 2009 threatening to sexually assault a handcuffed suspect with a stun gun, records show. A Dallas officer was fired in June and faced criminal charges after he allegedly turned off the camera in his patrol car and then stole a gun from a person.
HOW ABOUT A NEW FULLERTON LAW?
Large solid state storage devices are not that expensive. When an officer begins his shift, the recording device should be turned on and it should stay on. Officers who have recording device malfunctions should use back-up units. If back-up units fail, officers should be called in from patrol. It should be made a crime for an officer to intentionally disable his recording device or alter its effective operation (such as talking while a thumb or finger covers the microphone).
What could have been the motive for beating Kelly Thomas?….”FBI Investigating Alleged Beatings At Men’s Central Jail……….FBI investigation Men’s Central jail for incidences of mistreatment from officers where inmates are roughed up with injuries as bad a broken jaw. Most incidents are related to people slow or mentaly ill who have trouble following commands. The officers use this as an excuse to rough them up. This is an excersize they refer to as” baton practice”. http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/09/26/fbi-investigating-alleged-beatings-at-mens-central-jail/
Looks like SoCal is keeping the FBI busy these days.
I was beaten by FPD in 1999. I was only 16. I am a female. I was then charged with assault on a peace officer to explain the bruises. I filed a complaint, fought the charges. I was offered 60 days to plea guilty…which I did because i thought my word would never count against the officers. I’m still angry about it. For the entire stay I declined every meal, declined showers even when I could. They had psychiatrist, nutritionist try to convince me to eat. At times I could not stand up without blacking out. I did not do anything to deserve to be locked up. I lost 25 lbs but I also lost faith in the justice system.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. It is typical of some police to conjure up a story to explain injuries.
That just sucks.
Stay with us here. There’s a lot of good information.