A New Sheriff in Town?

I cleaned up the OCSD and I can help you, too...

I keep hearing persistent rumors that the Fullerton City Manager Joe Felz has had discussions with high level County officials about the possibility of abolishing the Fullerton Police Department and replacing it with the Orange County Sheriff’s Department.

Apparently the hook is not just the recent revelations of FPD misconduct, perjury, cover-up, crimes high and low, a spokesman caught blatantly lying, and the attendant PR curse that the department has visited upon itself. There is an issue of huge cost savings. And I mean huge.

While the prospect of getting honest, competent and respectful police services from the Sheriff’s Department is probably only marginally more likely than with the FPD (and there’s no way in the world it could be worse), extrapolating from current costs in contracted cities, using the OCSD could save the taxpayers of Fullerton as much as $13,000,000, per year from the FPDs bloated budget of $37,000,000.

That’s a whopping 37%, and $13,000,000 could go to a lot of things Fullertonians hold near and dear.

In this era of government fiscal constraint brought about in large measure by irresponsible decisions by dimwits like Don Bankhead, Dick Jones and PatMcKinley, to hand out exorbitant pay and benefits to “public safety” employees, everything should be on the table.

 

259 Replies to “A New Sheriff in Town?”

  1. Ask Lakewood, Paramount, Bellflower, Cerritos ect…how it’s been working for them since contract cities was established. You don’t see them with there own police departments. If those numbers are correct….there is really no argument….

    1. LASD IS A WORTHLESS LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, THEY SUCK WEENIES. HUTCHENS WAS MY STATION CAPTAIN BACK IN THE 90’S AND YOU’D NEVER KNOW WHO SHE WAS.

      1. You must have been a lousy deputy. LASD Is the best dept. (of 4) that I worked for. I don’t know abut sandy as a station commander but she was a good field deputy and detective. You are the one who sucks weenies.

        1. I WAS NEVER A DEPUTY ASSHOLE,. I WAS ONE OF MANY PEOPLE PAYING HER SALARY WHEN SHE WORKED AT LASD, AND I AM STILL PAYING FOR HER SALARY AND BENEFITS!

        2. DUMBASS, I NEVER SAID I WAS A DEPUTY! WHERE DID YOU READ THAT?
          I WAS ONE OF MAY TAXPAYERS PAYING HER SALARY WHEN SHE WAS A WORTHLESS, DO NOTHING STATION COMMANDER.

          1. Your comment “Hutchens was MY Station Captain”.
            I would be happy to give you back the $.08 cents of your taxes that went to law enforcement.

  2. Gteat idea. Along with that, we citizens still need to have our own vigilant Cop Watch in place so that the new Sheriff in town knows we are watching them.

    1. Fullerton should start an internship for police officers, and recruit them from the city itself, and pay them good and send them off to college after a short stint in the city. Then the city could create a new ideal model for law enforcement. Leave the job to citizens of the city.
      Somehow the city should make the job transitional.

      1. I like it! I honestly believe that those who own and dwell in the house will always take better care of it than they would a rental.

  3. For lack of other alternatives, it would make some sense — unless there was another Dept. (Brea? Anaheim?) to merge with.

    Does going to the Sheriff also eliminate one union (for another)? As well, it gives Supervisor Nelson some say over it that he doesn’t have now.

    Decent ideas all, especially if there’s a good savings.

    1. I like the idea of entertaining a proposal from a big force like Anaheim. They have their problems too, but there might be big economies of scale.

        1. Think! The people have to take over, You don’t need your mom and dad any more, start drafting a plan, use all the best ideas you all can think of to create a better force. Jot every thing down. Start an independent fullerton union that operates only within the city limits.

          I heard Laguna Beach still has a non union police department.

    2. Historically, the Fullerton Police have been the nice guys next to Brea and Anaheim. Placentia has had a good reputation.

  4. I strongly recommended to the council in the beginning of this year (and FFFF reported) that the City of Fullerton get 2 to 3 bids for every department in the city to have a benchmark for this year’s union negiotiations.

    I am pretty sure that this suggestion was totally ignored. Obviously, the city can gain the most financially by cutting the costs of both the police and fire departments.

    However, all options should be on the table, especially now with our chronic deficits and the critical need to update the city’s infrastucture, i.e. roads, sewers, etc.

    I hope this rumor is true for as I have explained before, without a real alternative to the unions’ normal salary and benefit demands, the city is conducting its negotiations without any leverage.

    Generally, a statement that the city is broke and that the unions should share in the sacrifice has not and will not work well.

    1. Barry, I met you during the election, and you strike me as pretty good with numbers. I know that if Fullerton contracted with the OCSD, the cost would be lower (even though salaries are higher) because you would only be paying the normal (going forward cost of retirement, and retiree medical). The City still has the obligation to pay for the huge (and growing) unfunded retirement liability that remains with CalPERS, along with other OPEB, liabilities. I would welcome your take on the real bottom line here, as apparently the City is stuck paying for the unfunded retirement costs until the last dependent of the last police officer currently on the payroll dies.

      1. Any serious proposal – OCSD or otherwise – needs to include lowering the total number of officers on the streets or it should be a non-starter.

        Fullerton is over-policed.

      1. Thanks for that. Whenever it becomes clear the police don’t want something, it goes further up the list of priorities.

        Less cops in Fullerton, whatever color they’re going to wear.

  5. If OCSD takes over, they will hire all the FPD, change their uniforms over, and send them back out on the streets of Fullerton. Now, do you really want that?

    1. They would undoubtedly hire many of them. But the Brady cops, the drunks, thieves, kidnappers, sexual assaulters, perjurers and killers would have to get the pink slip.

      Oh, yeah: THE LYING SACK OF SHIT GOODRICH COULD BE INFORMED HIS SERVICES WERE NO LONGER REQUIRED.

      1. Cost of a FPD culture of corruption? $13,000,000 + law suit damages.

        Getting rid of the liar Goodwrench? Priceless!

    2. If!!!! FPD is absorbed into OCSD (unlikely with their record)
      There is more accountability with OCSD for the Citizens.
      Have lived in Cities using OCSD, if they pull the same crap
      They can be removed, should also be in the contract.
      Remember, we elect the the Sherrif, we did not elect McKinley or Sellers.
      It is a win win start to being safe.

    3. Even if OCSD absorbs some of the fullerton PD, it’s still a $13m savings! What’s the alternative, pay what we are already paying and keep everything status quo?

  6. don’t forget: aren’t they going to consider the big raise for joe felz at this week’s city council meeting, assuming they don’t get scared and cancel it again? if so, go there and raise hell.

        1. Compare him to other City Managers. You will see that it is not any much higher. Do your homework before posting something you dont know.

          1. I didn’t say it was higher than other city managers. I said it was a raise. You said it wasn’t. Someone who has presided over the worst episode in the city’s history probably doesn’t deserve a raise!

  7. OCSD has its problems, but in areas like Cerritos and Bellflower, the residents seem happy and it certainly costs less.
    It is possible that the FPD personnel will be absorbed, however, they may not be kept on the Fullerton beat.
    In our economy, anything that reduces costs by 30% needs to be looked at.

    1. We need mandatory psych exams and evals of all personnel records before any FPD should be rehired by OCSD. Civilian control over community-oriented policing.

    2. Right.

      However those towns you mention are in LA County.

      In OC the model is south county like San Clemente, Mission Viejo, Laguna Niguel. We already have the physical infrastructure in place.

  8. DING DING DING!

    You just rung the bell that Coffman and company are SCARED SHITLESS OF.

    Weather feasible or not is not for the commenters on the FFFF board to decide, but let’s bring the proposal forward, let’s see how much it saves and evaluate the up’s and the downs.

    My guess is the opponents actions (or reactions) will speak volumes and tell us more than the proponents plan.

    1. Yeah every time this comes up the trolls get all serious for a bit and tell us how we really don’t want to do that.
      That and a powerful citizens board overseeing policing are the two things they really DON’T want to see.
      Which makes me think they’re probably the right things to do.

    2. It is feasible. Fullerton would have to keep paying its Calpers obligation for former cops (like Hampton and Ramos and Cicienlli and Bankhead and McKinley). The rest is just nuts and bolts. There is no devil lurking the details. Keeping your own PD is just an emotional issue.

    1. Hey, FedUp. I hear your fear of anything you deem the least bit ‘leftist,’ but the Second Amendment of the US constitution, which predates Karl Marx birth by 42 years assures We The People the Right to bear arms in a well regulated Militia. Militia, community policing? Have you ever heard of posses in Russia? How about the 1800’s American West? Weren’t no commies in Dodge City, Nellie Bell.

      BTW: I share your concerns about OCSD, but $13,000,000 savings? Gosh Darn! Barry’s ideas about getting bids to walk into the next negotiations with is a sound idea. So is getting rid of ALL the FPD’s bad-apples,’ and less patrol officers on duty. Can some of the in station support staff be reduced too? Gonna be tough to come up with $13,000,000 savings, but the union should have it IMPRESSED upon them they need to pony up to the bar along with the City if they want to keep their jobs.

      You and I really do agree that folks living within the community they police is a better idea. It would stand to reason all officers should also become acquainted with their neighbors. Anybody up for neighborhood B-B-Q’s?

      Oh, and the Citizen’s Review Board is a must if folks want to clean up FPD and keep it clean. Just my 2¢

  9. Joe Blow :
    I have a feeling its going to be a lot more than that. Probably multiple times that amount.

    WE NEED MORE TAXES TO COVER THE SPIKE IN DISABILITY PENSIONS COMING REAL QUICK.

  10. 9c1copcar :
    If OCSD takes over, they will hire all the FPD, change their uniforms over, and send them back out on the streets of Fullerton. Now, do you really want that?

    THEY’RE THE MOST EXPERIENCED.

    1. …the most experienced at what?
      murder
      false imprisoment
      police brutality
      rape
      molestation
      brutality
      …I say 86 them all and kick them out of our town for good.

  11. Now you’re talkin’ “Solutions” – Sandra Hutchens our New Orange County Sheriff has brought Integrity and Honesty back to the Sheriff’s Department – I Supported and Voted for Her – we could not have done better!

    She will work with Fullerton and any other City – to provide cost effective Police Services – whenever there is a Big Crime in Orange County – Homicides – Bomb Threats and the like – guess who all of the City Police Departments Call Anyway – so – why pay twice for the same service – use the Sheriff in the First Place – and you’ve got it covered.

    Better trained and equipped – an “Accredited” Organization – Millions Less Annually for the Best of All Services.

    -Dave

  12. I’m sure that some of the FPD might be aborsbed, problem is most won’t make it to patrol. There is a standing rule in OCSD that every deputy spend at least one year working the jails.

    On a sidenote some of the current FPD might like seeing six of their former colleges daily on the other side of the bars.

    The privacy and closed door meetings had between who knows who and our “elected” representatives is the start of things that needs to change. Followed by the unelected secretly running everything from behind closed doors. Until that stops romurs will always be the talk of the town.

  13. with the current fullerton city council and the OC DA Rackaucus , I doubt the FPD will be restored to a respectable police department because the fullerton city council and the FPD are cronies. The Orange county sheriff dept. may be a relief from the FPD only if the recall of Jones, McKinley and Bankhead fails to occur in the near future. If any of these three men remain on our city council, then FPD will remain a corrupt and abusive entity towards the public. We, the people of fullerton, can’t expect the OC DA to aid us in reforming FPD as it is obvious DA Rackaucus habit is to ignore abuses committed by law enforcement. As for the other independent investigation by Gennaco, he is nothing more than a paid flunky for Fullerton city council hired to inject doubt into the FBI’s findings on FPD abuses. The FBI’s investigation may be a more accurate measure of the level of involvement between Jones, McKInley and Bankhead and the FPD in covering up the murder of kelly Thomas. IF FBI shows a long and deep history of collusin between our city council and police department, then FPD must be disbanded and our city’s police services contracted out to another police department.

    1. At least two MAJOR witnesses written about or interviewed on this site have not even been interviewed by the FBI.

      I’m talking serious eye-witnesses.

      We best not pin our hopes on the FBI. If the DA doesn’t file charges, we might need to start a very concerted campaign to get the FBI and/or DOJ to look into this seriously. And maybe the State AG too. But for now I haven’t heard much positive about the ongoing FBI probe.

      1. @Jt
        I wouldn’t count on the State AG. From day one they have not been involved cuz she had a lot of union support, including the police unions. She will not bite the hand that feeds her. U.S. Atty. Gen would be a better option. That’s BS that the two witnesses have not been interviewed. Let’s not give up or lose hope.

      2. Even if DA files charges, Rackaucus pattern is not to find abuses or to legally mitigate the abuse by law enforcement. if the FBI is diligent in their investigation of Thomas murder, will the DA twist their findings into practiclly innocent for the
        FPD? If you are correct about the FBI, then what recourse must we take to get justice for Kelly Thomas? How do we get Department of Justice(DOJ) involved in Thomas murder? I’ve read the DOJ is involved in reforming state hospitals history of neglecting and abusing its patients. Maybe DOJ care about how police treat the homeles whom many are mentally ill

        1. From what I understand our best bet for a Federal investigation is the Department of Justice Special Litigation Division. They investigate entire LE operations accused of patterns of wrondoing, including excessive force, corruption, etc. I’ve also been told that we should be individuall contacting the U.S. Attorney office for the Central Division of California. http://www.justice.gov/usao/cac/

  14. You are losers. We love our FPD and are willing to pay whatever it takes to keep them. it’s all about community control!

  15. Hey where is the article from FFFF about what great success the kt concert and fundraiser was! Oh that’s right……. It wasn’t!!! Haha what a joke! when are you fffers going to realize that the people of Fullerton like their police! Morons!!!

    1. I feel sorry for your town. There really does appear to be people of less-than-average intelligence in abundance, and in leadership, who are very concrete in their thinking. These are the people who would de-humanize anyone they see as different from themselves and why they might think that an event that was attended by a lot of homeless people is not a success. That would be precisely why I would see it as successful so I hope that it’s true. It means that you are treating people with the dignity and respect that they deserve and they feel included. Many of the haters appear to have deep seated emotional and psychological problems; they are carrying around a lot of shame that they cope with by projecting it on to others, such as homeless and mentally ill people. It is a strategy to help them feel “good enough” themselves but a strategy that ultimately does not work. These men who would beat a person to death quite likely are the products of extremely unhealthy family systems, perhaps the children of untreated alcoholics and fathers who were very shaming and over controlling. The majority of them are most likely dealing with their own issues related to substance abuse but they see themselves as different from the stereotyped substance abuser. Interestingly, the stereotypical substance abuser, which would be someone poor and/or homeless, is not as likely to beat another person to death as a police officer who has substance abuse issues. These guys are full of rage but primarily that is about their own extreme feelings of inadequacy that they take out on other people. So you have a scary combination when you put this all together–less-than-average intelligence, history of childhood abuse, being an adult child of an unhealthy family system, substance abuse, and finally, to be placed in a position of authority over others. This is the combination that likely led to the murder of Kelly Thomas

    2. jackass, not only was the protest a success, the concert was as well, i was there and saw for myself how the community came together for not only kelly and the homeless.

    3. Please refrain from using the term “morons” – not only is it an insult, it’s outdated as a description of mental disability. And, cupcake? That isn’t the only reason I don’t like your comment… I don’t want you to “think” (if you can) that I agree with your comment

    4. @ Wow!, The people of Fullerton are in fear of their police…. that is why they started protesting in the first place. A murder took place on July 5, 2011, the city council nor the FPD made a statement about it and then 6 weeks passed with no acknowledgement of the incident. There are people in town with children and loved ones with autism, downs syndrome, chronic stress, parkinsons (all forms of mental illness). They are in fear that they or their loved ones are next. Then there are others afraid to stand up for fear of retailiation. Just because townspeople did not join in the protests or the fundraiser does not mean they like their police. They are afraid of their police and understandably so.

    5. It was huge! Do you have something against benefit concerts for homeless people?

      BTW, the people of Fullerton do not like their police morons.

      Maybe that has something to do with the thefts, kidnapping, assaults, sexual battery, aiding and abetting suicide, murder…

  16. SELLERS,

    They are the most experienced? Are you kidding? Give me 200 green officers from the academy. I will teach them to be efficient, helpful, and effective; all without bashing heads in and violating citizen rights in the process.

  17. 9c1copcar what makes you qualified to train anyone? Because you were a cop for a day or try to talk like one on this blog! Haven’t kept up with the news and all the things ocsd have been apart of! You all think that police should be perfect but they are human! In every field of work there is good and bad and when something happens in the police fiel they want to thin ALL the police are bad! 9c1 what kind of work do you do now?? That’s if you even work, your probably draining our taxes on disability or something!

    1. I could train 60 people from the taco Bell Academy and have a better police force. Plus I would hire a spokesturd who wasn’t a goddamned liar.

  18. Wow, i can train this fucking idiots better than they are being trained now. jaybond you are nothing but an angry troll.

  19. Sidebar wowtroll! You like to badger 9c1 over his status, once again, its none of your fucking business. You question him about being on a retirement he earned, but in your fucked up hipocracy you say nothing about your fat bald chief taking disability leave??? You fraud!

    1. Sounds like you have some serious psychosocial issues. You might consider seeking phychological support. There are other ways to communicate with people aside from using the “f” word. My guess is you are a high school drop out and never learned to fully master the English language otherwise you would find other ways to speak with adults.

      1. Housewivey- you gonna cry? thats a baaaaad word -time out – stand in the corner from housewife- my guess is you dont drive and your hubby pays all the bills so you dont have to… huh, princess? JUSTICE FOR KELLY is that better? remember that before you comment your stupid nonsense

        1. @ prissy merijoe. Actually, you are incorrect sweety. I DO drive AND have a successful career. I pay my own bills. I put myself through college AND paid for it. You shouldn’t jump to conclusions about other people. Oh, and watch out for that huge hangnail you have, you might just trip over it. You might want to book a salon appointment sometime soon… have a nice day! 🙂

      2. “psychological” but thank you for commenting on that individual’s (lack of) communication skills, which tend to offset the value of his/her comment(s).

    2. to fedupwithmorons

      I’m on your side, but your bombastic language pushes people away.

      Focus, please.

      This is about the wrongful death of an American Citizen at the hands of American police officers.

      Focus.

      You can take action over the police contracts later.

      Focus.

      The job at hand is to achieve justice for Kelly.

      Focus, please. For Kelly.

      (What do you do when you have no more tears?)

  20. Sidebar wowtroll! You like to badger 9c1 over his status, once again, its none of your fucking business. You question him about being on a retirement he earned but in your fucked up hipocracy you say nothing about your fat bald chief taking disability leave??? You fraud!

  21. This is LA Sheriffs but OC is coming to Fullerton. We gonna cum kick some ass. You ain’t seen nuttin til you see us use our jail mentality on you crackerjacks.

    http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8359070&cmp=fb-kabc-article-8359070

    LA Sheriff’s Department says deputies shot pit bull to save their K-9
    Sunday, September 18, 2011

    The owner of a dog shot dead by Los Angeles County Sheriff’s deputies Saturday claims it was unnecessary killing. (KABC Photo)
    TAGS:animal news, deputy-involved shooting, los angeles news
    Comment NowEmailPrintReport a typo

      
    NORWALK, Calif. (KABC) — The Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department says deputies on Saturday shot and killed a pit bull to save their own canine during an attack.

    The deputies were conducting a house-to-house search in Norwalk after receiving a call about an armed man at a park.

    The deputies asked a resident of a home, Eddie Perez, to secure his pit bull so that they could search the property. Officials said the pit bull overpowered Perez and ran into the street and attacked the sheriff’s dog.

    “The pit bull bit the K-9’s throat and pinned it on its back in the street,” the Sheriff’s Department said in a statement. “Due to the aggressive and violent nature of the pit bull the deputy was forced to shoot it in order to save the life of Tosca and the surrounding community members.”

    Related Content
    STORY: Deputies kill dog in search for armed man
    Perez said he had asked the deputies to Taser his pit bull, but one of the deputies instead shot it in the head at close range with an assault rifle.

    Witnesses said the dog limped back to its home before collapsing in the driveway.

    Perez, who has hired an attorney, said what upsets him most is how the situation was handled.

    “They don’t apologize. They saw their dog was more important to them than my dog,” he said. “They’re not taking responsibility for it.”

  22. Orange County, California settles excessive force lawsuit involving cop who tackled man who was hugging his mom
    MAY 7, 2010, Posted by Howard Law, PC.

    inShare
    | Share
    An Orange County, California police brutality lawsuit filed by Gabriel Celli and his mom Nancy Turner against the county has been settled. Celli and his mom were embracing each other in the street early on January 1, 2006 when they were tackled by a county deputy who then began hitting Celli. The incident was caught on videotape by the Orange County Sheriff’s Department.
    The altercation took place after Celli tried to break up a brawl outside his home between two deputies and his neighbor Kurt Chapman. One of the deputy’s is accused of striking Celli with a baton. Police acknowledge that they hit Celli but they say that it was because he “interfered.”
    Another deputy, Jason Perez, then got out of his vehicle and tackled Celli and Turner, who at this point where embracing each other. Perez then hit Celli. He said that based on the information he had, he “needed to gain control of Celli” right away and that the suspect kept trying to get back up.
    Celli was arrested for resisting arrest but he was later acquitted of the charge. However, Celli claims that police he “punched and kicked” him while he was in jail.
    Because of the alleged Orange County, California police brutality incident, Celli said that he wasn’t able to leave his home for six months and he set up cameras to record police vehicles that were parked outside his residence. He claims that the cops purposely drove by his home to intimidate him.
    In their Orange County, California personal injury lawsuit alleging civil rights violations, Celli and Turner had sought $10 million. They agreed to settle for $200,000.
    Orange County, California Police Brutality
    Police officers are forbidden from using excessive force when detaining or arresting or jailing anyone. Often, people are too afraid to report incidents of police brutality. Just because you are a suspect or under arrest doesn’t give police officers the right to violate your civil rights.
    County pays $200,000 in video-taped excessive force case, OC Register, May 6, 2010

  23. A very wise move would be close down the Fullerton PD.

    Maybe try it again in a few decades.

    The FPD has effected business and even property values here in our city.

    A drastic change would go a long way in reestablishing our credibility.

  24. Approximately 1% of business sales tax revenue is allocated to the city the sales are generated in. For the city of fullerton to make $13M in income, local businesses need to generate $1.3B in sales revenue.
    How could anyone not consider the OCSD proposal! And especially in these economic times. Do any of you losers that do not want to consider the OCSD option have any idea how difficult it is to make $13M every year?
    It’s true what they say, a dollar saved is a dollar earned. If the general public shared this philosophy, the planet Earth wouldn’t be in a global recession!

    1. Don’t fall for the sales pitch so fast.

      Look around. Compare initial quotes to 5 years later for Sheriffs estimates.

      They lowball to get in the door and the they end up costing more for less in the long run.

      Short term savings for long term expense.

      Also, once you go Sheriffs you will never go back and never get your local control back again.

      All of your ideas here will never happen with Sheriffs. Some will only happen with your own PD.

      You decide.

      1. Local control?

        Control of what? Are you suggesting McSpankJones has any control over anything? Murders, rapes , assaults, thefts, drug abuse and credit card fraud, kidnapping, perjury….

        Aw, Hell do i really have to go on?

        Say goodnight Goodbar!

  25. yeah, loser Get Real (and you may fuck yourself) Close up that motherfuckin good for nothing gestapo training bldg , get rid of all the SS officers inside and then man with a quarter of the current morons that are in there now-
    Fullerton isnt a city of millions, its a small town and doesnt need all of the hyped up, hired assassin gangsters they have now- what happens to them? instutionalized most of them in a mental hospital – maybe the circus is hiring- maybe they can find work making donuts

    1. Please refrain from using the term “morons” – it is an insult and is a very outdated term for describing mental disability

      1. Peach or whatever fruit you are -whats “insulting” is to be advised to refrain from my civil rights freedom of speech-by a simple minded goof

        Im not going to “refrain” from anything just because you dont like it – if you see the word “moron” as an insult to the mentally disabled then thats your problem-deal with it

        1. It was a request, not advice; one can accept or ignore a request. Get over it, sweetcheeks. I am just sorry that your vocabulary (and that of others) seems to limit you to using pejoratives of various kinds when attempting to make valid points in your comments; that tends to diminish the strength of your comments… Something to consider? That’s just a suggestion; again, accept or ignore it. Hope to see you at the Council meeting on Tuesday.

    1. @fedupwithmorons, no, I am not pro censoring free speech, just tired of hearing the same curse words over and over when there are so many other ways to articulate a thought…… it becomes so trite after a while. Just my 2 cents of free speech. And I bet if merijoe were to have his/her mouth washed out with soap it would take 2 or three bars to do the job…..

      1. oooooo, ouch-and… BTW, JUSTICE FOR KELLY that’s why we’re here-not to hear your fucking ramblings about a nasty word that you find to be “trite”- blue blood

        1. I agree with Justice for Kelly. I have participated in the protests holding signs, contributed signs, and nourishment and water at the events. And drove an hour each way just to make it to the protests……. what have you contributed?

          1. JD, when the Sheriff takes over you’re going to be out of a job.

            JD? See, we figured it out. YOU’RE GONNA BE FIRED.

            Maybe Goodspunk will give you a job pulling weeds around his trailer in Atascadero.

  26. I think Dennis Prager said it the best.
    “There are two races in this world; the Decent, and the Indecent”.
    What FEDUP and I witnessed on Saturday, was a gathering of DECENT people of all races and backgrounds coming together for a very noble cause. We are PROUD to call all of you our friends.

  27. I saw this and wanted to post it. Just a light-hearted joke. Enjoy.

    A man kills a deer and takes it home to cook for dinner. Both he and his wife decide that they won’t tell the kids what kind of meat it is, but will give them a clue and let them guess. The kids were eager to know what the meat was on their plates, so they begged their Dad for a clue. The dad said -“well its what Mummy calls me sometimes.” The little girl screamed to her brother, “Don’t eat it. Its an asshole!

  28. You have provided REASON # ONE for Recalling the three “old timers-insiders” OFF of the Fullerton City Council.

    Spending 33% OVER the alternative cost for the same service is the definition of poor management, or if you’re in Fullerton where six murderers are currently on administrative leave, rather than in jail, then you are dealing with THUGS and the wasted taxpayer money is equivalent to payments of bribery-kickbacks-corruption.

    A decent City Council could fix this FAST.

    Step ONE – Fire the “new” FPD chief and replace him by PROMOTING our existing long time FIRE CHIEF to the new position of Director of Public Safety. No pay raise, but he would be put in charge of BOTH the Fire Dept and the Police Dept. And he would have one specific new duty as the basis of his future performance evaluation, that being, reduce the FPD cost by $13,000,000. within two years (while providing equal or better service, e.g. number of patrols per day, etc.).

    Step TWO – Revoke-reverse the 3 x 30 bloated budget-busting, detached from real world economics, undeserved, indefensible, illegal (illegal, i.e. you can’t pass a government spending bill in CA without identifying the associated balanced budget non-deficit-producing revenue source to pay for it) public saftey pension scheme for all City of Fullerton employees.

    Step THREE – revoke-cancel the 10% water rate (tax) diversion into the City budget instead of providing for water related facilities.

    Step FOUR – direct the City Manager to contract with a commission-based head-hunter hiring team to CONSTANTLY interview and make available for IMMEDIATE HIRING a force of 400 recently or soon to be released from active duty U.S. military combat veterans with a beginning average salary equal to no more than HALF of the existing average salary/compensation schedule presently budgeted and being paid to our existing Fullerton Fire Dept and Police Dept staff members. This program “ready reserve of replacements program” is of course just in case we face any illegal strikes or blue flu situations while the new Director of Public Safety corrects the bloated NON-Market pay scales which our Police and Fire Department employees presently receive (while he also removes any of the FPD-FFD staff who are similarly Thuggish to the SIX).

    This is all very DO-able, and gives us a terrific set of reasons to RECALL Bankhead, Jones and McKinley immediately.

  29. “We must rapidly begin the shift from a “thing-oriented” society to a “person-oriented” society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.”
    – Martin Luther King, Jr.

    1. WEARE GO READ THAT BLOG I POSTED YESTERDAY ON “COMMUNITY POLICING AND MARXISM”. THE ARTICLE IS RIGHT ON THE MONEY AS TO TODAY’S EVENTS ALTHOUGH THE ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN IN 2000 BY A SAN DIEGO COP. HE WAS WISE FOR HIS TIME.

  30. Jeffrey, first of all I don’t give a fat rats ass what you think and you are a ranting bombastic moron loser!

    1. to fedup

      Good. No one ever said you weren’t entitled to your opinions. I’ll personally stand up with you and defend them to the death. Not your opinions, but your right to have them. If I won’t do that for you, then I should not expect anyone to do the same for me.

      Unless you are going to take the law into your own hands, which is highly NOT recommended, swearing and trying to browbeat people because they disagree with you is not helping the cause of obtaining justice for Kelly.

      THATS WHY WE’RE ALL HERE, RIGHT, TO GET JUSTICE FOR KELLY THOMAS?

      Passion causes one to overstep the bounds of propriety and weakens their arguments. If you want to see what true emotional control is just look at Kelly’s Father, Ron.

      If anyone has the right to go off the deep end emontionally, he does. He doesn’t swear. He doesn’t yell. He speaks plainly and makes his points. He has some of the most amazing self control I have ever seen. This is a man whose behavior should be emulated by all that want justice for his son. When he speaks everyone else shuts up and listens. Not out of fear, but out of respect. My respect for Ron grows more every time I hear him speak.

      Make your arguments more effective by at least making your case without being inflammatory. When all you do is swear, you show yourself as needing mundane conversational crutches to speak, and that you lack an effective volcabulary to make your points. I don’t think thats the case. I think you just need to ratchet down the rhetoric some.

      Thats not an workable technique for convincing people. It is, however, very effective in damaging your own presentation.

      Again, please let us all focus. Intercene sniping between posters won’t bring Kelly back or see justice done. imho.

      1. IDIOT, YOU ARE MISSING MY MESSAGE, I WILL USE WHATEVER LANGUAGE I SO CHOOSE, I REALLY DON’T CARE IF YOU READ MY POSTS OR NOT.
        NO ONE PUT YOU IN CHARGE OF BEING THE BLOG CENSOR. I DON’T CARE ABOUT YOUR TOUCHY FEELY BULLSHIT, I SAY WHAT I MEAN AND MEAN WHAT I SAY. YOU SHOULD TRY IT SOMETIME INSTEAD OF BEING ONE OF THOSE LEFT WING USEFUL IDIOTS!

        1. to fedup.

          No one is trying to tell you what to say, when to say it, or how to say it, least of all me.

          I just make friendly suggestions to help make you more effective.

          If I was going to ask you to do anything, it would be to lower your voice. You type so loud it hurts people’s eyes. (-:

          1. DON’T CENSOR ME, DON’T EDIT MY WORDS FREAKTARD, AND ABOVE ALL, DO NOT TELL ME HOW TO THINK. I AM QUITE CABAPLE OF INDEPENDENT THOUGHT!

      2. jeffrey, you dont have the right to tell people what to say or how to say it,,,you know that right? ok, well since you know that, you should know that if you say things like
        “Make your arguments more effective by at least making your case without being inflammatory. When all you do is swear, you show yourself as needing mundane conversational crutches to speak, and that you lack an effective volcabulary to make your points.”
        how do you think someone will react to that? Im just sayin. mind your own and move on -you are the one inflaming people, if you care so much abou JUSTICE FOR KELLY which is why were here, then for Kelly, stop putting people down for expressing themselves the way they want-stop oppressing people-like the cops did to Kelly anf his rights

        1. No one wants to censor you.
          No one has edited anything you have said.
          No one has told you how or what to think.

          The only suggestions I have made are those to help you be more effective when speaking in public..

          No one says you have to listen or do anything you don’t want to.

          Perhaps if you just ignored my posts we could continue searching for justice for Kelly.

        2. You are absolutely correct.

          I will mend my ways and focus as I have asked others to do.

          I apologize if I strayed in my message.

  31. So it’s come down to money? Isnt it because of the money we are in what we are in? Fuck why cant we just make a motherfucker do his/her job like the rest of us have to? Quit blaming it on some political agenda or some other apathetic bullshit people. It’s our city we pay into it, NOW GET INVOLVED! It all starts local period!
    It’s high time some adults step up hold those accountable, accountable. YOU DO NOT WANT OCSD OR ANY SHERIFFS FOR THAT MATTER ASK ANYONE WHO HAS HAD TO DEAL WITH THEM.

  32. Idiot desperate, we all can see that you are an angry, attention seeking whore, so either get over your expletive phobia, or, crawl back into your batcave !!!! Psycho bitch!

  33. Geesh !! why are you attacking these kelly supporters??!!?? stop it, you both need to take a walk and cool off, i know you are pasionate, but come on now..

  34. There is the disconcerning apprehension that, if the FPD is replaced by the OCSD, many of the present sworn FPD personnel will be retained/rehired by the OCSD.
    Put a clause in the services contract stating that; no present sworn FPD personnel will be eligible for employment by OCSD until 1 Jan 2025, with a rider penalty of $25 million, with no consideration for waivers under any circumstances.
    The above should include any contractual agreement between OCSD and a third party.
    NO LOOP HOLES OR WEASEL CLAUSES in any attempt to circumvent the intent of this condition.

  35. i read enough of it, and you are going too far..

    in my opinion.. you claim to be peaceful, but this
    doesn’t look like it to new ppl just coming here for maybe the first time..

    something to think about..

  36. maybe the sheriff with some citizen deputies. better yet. the citizens start packin and take care of themselves. trust me we don’t need some bitch who thinks she can whip everyone in shape. trust me that’ what wewe don’t need. the orange county sheriff department is horrible and brutal if you seen some of the things from the inside or in the jails you would agree. yet they are cheaper and that’s something to think about. but they should not be able to any fpd officers. all of those cops have stayed silent for many years and never came forward. about any of the multitude of wrongdoing by the fpd and beyyond

  37. maybe the sheriff with some citizen deputies. better yet. the citizens start packin and take care of themselves. trust me we don’t need some bitch who thinks she can whip everyone in shape. trust me that’ what wewe don’t need. the orange county sheriff department is horrible and brutal if you seen some of the things from the inside or in the jails you would agree. yet they are cheaper and that’s something to think about. but they should not be able to any fpd officers. all of those cops have stayed silent for many years and never came forward. about any of the multitude of wrongdoing by the fpd and beyyond.

  38. and I’m sure if some lady had to go into the orange county sheriff’s department and clean up all the corruption well I’m sure that it still corrupt

  39. To save money on the front end, is to spend it on the back end.
    IF you go with a less trained officer, who, for financial reasons, is put on the streets, then you have a chance for more lawsuits.
    Training, per se, is not a guarantee that all officers will stay within the law. It is good leadership, attention to detail, strict policies and procedures, and a close review of officer’s discipline reports, that will help to insure no rogue officer gets to build up a record number of complaints regarding abusive/illegal behavior, and still remain on the department.
    We are human, and as such, are all flawed. Law enforcement is also flawed, however, when they have the power to change/destroy lives, dreams, and futures, we then have the moral obligation to stand up to those who would do wrong.
    I stand on line, shoulder-to-shoulder with everyone here regarding this cause.
    RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED

    1. See we are getting some where now. 9c1. Solutions, solutions. Now we will see all of you Tues. at the meeting and if they cancel again we will have our own damn meeting. We have met every Sat. and the site where Mr Kelly Thomas was murdered continuously so dont say it cant happen. Lets start setting them straight. Re call is rolling so they now know its on! By the for the people.

    2. I agree with 100% of what your saying 9c1copcar on the police department training and supervision. I’d also like to add that I think it’s high time that we train our police force to work with the ABC to start tracing back the originating downtown bars and/or servers that are feeding the patrons too much to drink. I don’t believe that there is EVER any follow up on these matters, and the public ends up paying through the nose in the costs to police the bars, costs to pull drivers over, costs to incarcerate them, excessive force lawsuits, etc… Let the downtown bar owners start shouldering more of the costs that their patrons are incurring on the rest of us.
      There is currently a case in Superior Court where a driver is up on murder charges after drinking at a downtown bar, and I wonder if anyone has gotten off their duff to find out which bar it is? The driver of the vehicle actually drove off the street and into someones house off of Woods and Chapman here in Fullerton, and it could have almost been a double or triple homicide if he had driven a couple of feet further into one of their children’s bedroom. So tell me how safe the Fullerton Police make me feel when they don’t follow up on who served this driver the alcohol to the point that he wrecked his car and ends up killing his fiance , because I know that these things somehow have a way of repeating themselves when they never get addressed after the first incident or accident in this case.

      1. I also think that since this town has traditionally been a “bedroom community” that we have far too many police officers on the roster now, and could safely trim at least 25-50 percent of the police force without affecting services.

            1. ..thanks Jeffrey,

              and ,

              just a four fun rant, about shit

              jajajaja,

              I speak for myself , and i dont need ANY police

              end police, i dont need cops,

              knock knock
              whose there

              a robber,

              HI -YA

              KARATE CHOP followed with a disabling atack of whatever is convenient.

              then ,

              i wont need police, because police kill rape molest , fart on,, , false DUI , plant drugs, REALLY? fart on, hajajajaj , not funny , sexually assault, cover up , not come forward, suck off, the city council , lie, intimidate, um , break knees embezzle millions of dollars , do weird Masonic shit, eat shit , are fat , idiots with stupid mustaches and 4 chin gurdle neck police commission president mutha fuckers , .

              period ,

              dood

              im an idiot, ;alkjdfkajd;fjadjaidjajajaja
              im an idiot ;akdjfa;dkjfa;dkfja;djfa;dj
              im an idiot ;lkjad;flkjads;lakdsjf;aled ;;lkadj;lkajsdf;lkadjsfalkd;ald;lkdj;dj;ad
              ;akjd;alksdj;alksdjf;alksdjf;alkdjf;alsdj;
              ;kajds;lakdjs;lakdjsa;djs;kdkjd;jd;kdfla
              ;alkjd;lkadsf;kljadf;lkads;klfadjklsf;kal
              pikjasdj;ads;asdfkl;akl;dsfklasdad;kld

              1. This reminds about me automobiles used to be manufactured in one factory, from start to finish. Now, not only are parts pieced out and manufactured around the world, pretty much all cars, except for some of the luxury, are homogenous. Many Toyota parts available in So Cal are made in Mexico.

                My point is that whether you have OCSD, LASD or SDSD take over, they are all set up basically the same, with very similar policies, including the “code of silence”. The world is now a global village, thanks to technology. You can put whichever department you want to run Fullerton, but like in my example above, if there are fundamental problems with the parts, you have to go to the factory.

                If the culture of law enforcement is ever to change, meaning being more transparent and accountable to the people, then we have to start with the basics, and at the source.

                A change in leadership is absolutely the first step. Disbanding the FPD is a great idea for all of us who are sick of police abuse, BUT only after carefully considering as much as possible.

                The first question I ask myself before making any decisions is: Could what I’m considering make things worse? And if worse, how much worse? The risk of doing something to change a situation has to outweigh the doing nothing, especially if it is harmful. Perhaps the hardest part though, is accepting the results of those decisions, especially if they are less than satisfactory.

                I’m so sorry I couldn’t make it on Saturday. I really wanted to be there.

                From the LA Times today:

                Jurors question deputies’ testimony

                http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-sheriff-credibility-20110919,0,5809776.story?page=2&utm_medium=feed&track=rss&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20latimes%2Fmostviewed%20%28L.A.%20Times%20-%20Most%20Viewed%20Stories%29&utm_source=feedburner

  40. I take it, that this is not something that we can bring to a vote? FPD or OCSD….I take it that this decision is made by the City Manager?

  41. it seems that the union might even work with the city to save them from being disbanned??

    there just needs to be a tighter reign on the force, and an easier way to disipline, to bring back some integrity..

    maybe even break down the code of silence somehow..

    weed out the bad cops and get a new council that is not in the back pocket of them, and will really be transparent

    maybe just wishful thinking..

  42. well if the rumors are true, i really pray for justice for kelly this week..

    no matter what happens i hope we all can keep a cool head, and if it doesn’t work out the way we feel it should, we can take it to the next level.

    it just may take longer to get solution to the problem.

    we have come along way to get this far, and i am proud to be a part of it..

    in friendship..

  43. I don’t think we will get rid of the 3 blind mice, until all the blue hairs are gone. Fullerton is an old City. Look, Bankhead came back, after being recalled. I personally have been voting against them for years.

  44. hopefully this tragedy will open up the blind eyes in the city, so that they realize the need for change..

    i understand ppl who are set in their ways and afraid of change, but this has been a real eye opener for many, i’m sure.

    i bet you have a huge turnout at the polls this time

  45. You folks have been tearin’ it up tonight. I’m computerless and have resorted to Blackberry today. It takes forever to even read poats, let alone post. Just wanted to say I hope to see a lot of you at the city council meeting this Tuesday.

  46. don’t forget… you have alot of people across the country pulling for fullerton!!

    this could really snowball across the land!!

  47. wg, i’m sure you will have a great turnout at the meeting !! i will be watching online and rooting you all on !!

  48. Maybe FFFF should show a few of their of films(City Council Meetings) at the senior center. Which is being redeveloped. They should serve free food to get them to listen.Bet they would listen then…..I’m just thinkin. Old Fullerton is set in their ways, that’s for sure…

  49. If the police services are contracted with OCSD the city of Fullerton will be off the hook for liabilities caused by the OCSD personnel, unless there is some stipulation in the services contract for some formulation to compute a shared cost for legal and settlement awards.

  50. thats a good idea, i bet many seniors are not aware of alot going on and can be fearful of change for sure

  51. no way to ocsd….look up their people…harbor master lieutenant (gudeshey) busted for a drunk driving collision in the patrol car….punishment….was sent back to work the jail…same pay…al waters…drug dealer…..beating inmates…. and can’t forget the old leader (corona) the cover ups with the asst sheriffs……..the list of people on that is way to long to list…and this is only looking back about a year…..oc sheriff is not a good choice…

  52. well that doesn’t sound good..

    i say try to clean up the fpd, less employees, easier to weed out the problems..
    all the fpd can’t be bad seeds…

    just my opinion

  53. SOSAD,

    FEDUP is at the protests most Saturdays. She also happens to be my girlfriend. Although you are free to speak your mind, at no time did she ever say the crass, vile things you did. Time to clean up your act.

  54. Most of the seniors that I know just want to be in peace. They have come to realize “don’t make waves” is the best policy for the least intrusion into their lives. For those that have a drivers license their biggest fear is being stopped by the police. Otherwise, they will not support any suggestion to oppose the police in any form or fashion for fear of retaliation. Generally,the retaliation is directed in a profiled manner , i.e. senior, ethnic features, tattoos,gender, and the list goes on as to the preferences of the individual cops, regardless of departmental policy or training.
    Bad cops don’t just become bad cops, they were rotten when they were born. They used and manipulated their parents and family as training aids to achieve their wants and now the populace is bearing the burden for inadequate screening by policing organizations.
    Not just the FPD it’s a national issue.
    Yes, I am NOT a doctor..

    1. IS A SENIOR AND I DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN A CITY WHERE CORRUPTION RUNS RAMPANT! NEITHER SHOULD YOU! STAND UP AND BE COUNTED!

  55. and also if some lady had to clean up the corruption in the orange county sheriff department you can bet your bottom dollar that it still corrupt.

  56. Massasoit Say:

    “This Department Smell Like Rampart! We must rid this cancer, before it eats our crops, like your wild hogs do to our land.”

    When the FPD IS abolished…

    ****ALL complaint files shall be REOPENED and RE-INVESTIGATED by the FBI. ALL officers who disobeyed the law shall be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (no free rides, no slap on wrist) and barred from police work for the rest of their lives.

    ****Union laws may want to be explored in general… are these cops still getting paid-leave or whatever they doctor it up to sound like? HOW IN THE F*** does that make sense? WHY DO THESE GUYS GET PAID, when they do something horribly wrong???? Tell me that.

    ****the individual FPD officers shall be questioned with a fine-toothed comb about complaints.

    ****No other department in Orange County or anywhere else for that matter, need these “out of work” Fullerton cops that get a free-ride with one of his/her buddy’s department in a different city, roaming the streets. Hey Irvine! Irvine, do you want one of these cops from Fullerton??? Haha.. we will trade you one for one of yours! I can see it now, all the networks in the police movement.

    “Hey citizens of cities other than Fullerton, we have some cops that are going to be let-go, you want one of ’em!?

    JFK “Justice for Kelly, Justice for All.” DEMAND IT.

  57. We can absolutely trim. But this is about police brutality, misconduct, and lawbreaking, not about money. Saving money is good if there’s no bad tradeoff. But we should look at OCSD carefully beforehand. And we have to have strong civilian oversight. That’s the really important part.

    If “Justice for Kelly” morphs into “Save the City Money” that’s not good. I’m not saying the OCSD idea is necessarily bad but civiilian control and the quality of the officers and policing is where I think our priority should be.

  58. well , first of all,

    hats off to Massasoit, that was pretty dam , good,

    when the fpd is ABOLISHED : it would seem that it has to be.

    JFK “Justice for Kelly, Justice for All.” DEMAND IT. : nice,

    …….
    ……..

    well , did i say that ,

    If this person thinks she can come and fix it , whip it into honesty , by her heart felt pep talks or her corporate power pussy. SHRUG, really, , jaja p,p[] hah

    c:/ indepentent voter
    depentant voter

    c:/ sovereign human
    or slave system slave

    remember , so called cicil society is relatively new, we lived for millllliiiions of years or who knows how long , and all this is a new fabrication ,

    are you a dependent ,
    am i dependent
    independent are you

    but i guess it eventually comes down who are you ,
    what is the story of all that we know
    are you bought a sold with a social security number
    counted at birth, dna blood sample drawn.
    manipulated with forms of capitalistic mind control techniques
    also known as the THeM, advertising , or the marketplace or or whatever bullshit dick asses are out there in a squad car. but really
    none the less,

    xhcn

  59. Fullerton lover you are correct. The pay and benefits in FPD and the number of sworn personnel actually on active duty are the reasons they cost $13 millon per year more than OCSD. These small city PDs have lots of promotions and overtime. In Westminster a smaller city than Fullerton, the Firemen on average receive over $100,000 per year + benefits. Much of the costs are in overtime spending instead of hiring new hires at the bottom of the scale.
    So can FPD cut its budget by $13 million? NO, its propped up by beneficial contracts with the city thanks to Blankhead and the others. Can Fullerton be policed properly for $13 million less? Definitely yes!

  60. James Alexander :
    JD, when the Sheriff takes over you’re going to be out of a job.
    JD? See, we figured it out. YOU’RE GONNA BE FIRED.
    Maybe Goodspunk will give you a job pulling weeds around his trailer in Atascadero.
    Like I said before..It aint gonna happen. No Worries!!

    James Alexander :
    JD, when the Sheriff takes over you’re going to be out of a job.
    JD? See, we figured it out. YOU’RE GONNA BE FIRED.
    Maybe Goodspunk will give you a job pulling weeds around his trailer in Atascadero.
    Like I said before…Its aint gonna happen. No worries.

  61. thanks Jeffrey,

    and ,

    just a four fun rant, about shit

    jajajaja,

    I speak for myself , and i dont need ANY police

    end police, i dont need cops,

    knock knock
    whose there

    a robber,

    HI -YA

    KARATE CHOP followed with a disabling atack of whatever is convenient.

    then ,

    i wont need police, because police kill rape molest , fart on,, , false DUI , plant drugs, REALLY? fart on, hajajajaj , not funny , sexually assault, cover up , not come forward, suck off, the city council , lie, intimidate, um , break knees embezzle millions of dollars , do weird Masonic shit, eat shit , are fat , idiots with stupid mustaches and 4 chin gurdle neck police commission president mutha fuckers , .

    period ,

    dood

    1. chiken, this link may contain a virus.. it was stopped on my computer by my security system.
      be careful..

    1. This has been discussed amongst our circle and believe you are correct. This has snowballed into something way bigger and rightfully so. We are sure there are those crapping their pants at what is being looked at and by whom. The power and control over the good citizens of Fullerton is about to end. This whole thing stinks all the way to the top. Funny thing is if the city leaders would of just acknowledged the Kelly Thomas killing and done something right away this would not be as huge as it has become.

      1. If you have any evidence of any serious Federal inquiries into FPD and/or associated corruption in Fullerton please post it for the rest of our edification.

        Thanks.

  62. Sandra Hutchens-Sheriff-Coroner,isnt this the same OC coroner that has held up this whole mess.Now you are considering a thought to allow OCSD to police your city.Also,once county has been given responsibility to police,you have given them more control over your city,but at a county level.The money you will save,will be spent trying to get city policing back.Once a “teaser” contract has been signed between City of Fullerton and OCSD there’s a deadline or date of expire.Then COLLECTIVE BARGAINING kicks in.And watch out,you will be picking up there deficit that every police department is facing.The kicker-3 new members on the city council(if the recall goes through).If city manager is considering this,it sounds good and has worked good for other cities,looks like i’m doing my job,now,I deserve my big fat raise,gimme the money.RECALL,2-NEW CC MEMBERS,NEW MAYOR(all with integrity,honest transparency and a plan)A NEW POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE THAT WILL WEED OUT BAD COPS IN EXISTING POLICE DEPARTMENT,CONTRACT TIME-NEW POLICY-ALL PENSIONS BASED ON PERFORMANCE,BAD COP-NO PENSION,AN INCENTIVE PLAN TO BEING A GOOD COP.JUST A SUGGESTION.

    1. You raise a damn good point. But you also need to remember that Hutchens is a cop. The Coroner title comes with the job. I assume that most of the technical coroner decisions are made by the County’s contracted medical examiner.

      However, the main point of this post is saving a bunch of money. The author notes the unlikelihood of getting better police, although he accurately notes there’s no way it could get worse.

  63. I predicted this back in July, it’s happening all around the country as more little ‘police’ departments become corrupt and very expensive doing nothing but encouraging and covering up crimes and costing the tax payers buckets of money. Saving 13M is always a good thing.

  64. Mabey this would be the best way to disband the fullerton police dept. At a latter date it could be re-instituted with a new chief and a smaller force. I beleive part of the problem is there are too many officers that have been hired. That is why so many show up on minor calls.

  65. On the way in to work today, the Fullerton SWAT Team was mounting up, then drove out in their huge truck.

    Wonder if something is happening today/this morning.

    Might be nothing, but have never seen them roll the SWAT team on way to my office.

    1. Gearing up for trouble? Maybe we are about to learn that out do-nothing DA is about to run true to form.

      Still, it’s pathetic how the FPD instinctively looks to militarize a situation that THEY created. The anti-recall goons are sure to get a picture of that truck and blame the peaceful protesters for being a lynch-type mob.

  66. We also “outed” a tactical weapons salesman from Aardvark Tactical Weapons that just happened to be making a Saturday sales call to the Fullerton PD during the protest.
    The protesters chased him off just like a swarm of bees would an exterminator, and the guy retreated back into the Fullerton police station with his tail tucked firmly between his legs. I have a video of the encounter along with a picture of his business card as proof in case you doubt my word.
    http://www.aardvarktactical.com

  67. I hear Ron Thomas the other night imploring us all to remain calm even if all of the police officers are NOT charged with any crimes.
    The reason being is that investigations into the FPD, Fullerton city council, and the DA’s office are already taking place at a federal level, and that we all have to allow for them to get in there and clean house, instead of blindly attacking our own city and each other.
    Let’s not be drawn into battle, let’s all be in this long term and stay calm so that we can win the war.

    1. “The reason being is that investigations into the FPD, Fullerton city council, and the DA’s office are already taking place at a federal level, and that we all have to allow for them to get in there and clean house, instead of blindly attacking our own city and each other.”

      What investigations??!

      1. True JT. I think the only investigation going in is the Kelly one. Other agencies and entities are monitoring but I don’t think any formal investigations are active.

  68. havegunwilltravel: Here is an answer to your thoughtful question.

    As your question suggests, there are no easy answers for the unfunded pension liabilities that Fullerton has run up over decades.

    A little background information to understand the totality of the problem.

    When social security was passed in 1935, the full retirement age was 65 but the average life expectancy was only 57. Now the average life expectancy is almost 80 years of age. As late as the 1950’s you had approximately 15 workers for every retiree, now you have only 3 workers per retiree and heading to 2 workers per retiree. Since this has been a pay as you go system where current workers pay for the retirement of those now collecting social security, the system will run out of money if nothing is done to make social security whole again.

    The problems with city pensions are much worse than social security for several reasons as follows:

    1. No sharing of costs. Whereas social security participants pay in 1/2 of the premiums or 6.2% (plus 1.45% for medicare), the Fullerton city workers pay in anywhere from 0% to approx. 2.3% while the city kicks in up to 30% for police and fire.

    2. Full Retirement age. For Safety workers 50 years of age and for miscellaneous employees 55 years of age vs. 66 for social security.

    3. Up to 90% of pay for safety workers starting at age 50, and up to 80% plus for miscellaneous workers starting at 55 years of age. The average social security recipient collects approx. 35%-40% of his/her highest wage and the higher your earnings while working, the lower the percentage you get back!

    So there you have it. City workers get to retire 10 to 15 years earlier than the rest of us and collect much more than we do.

    For example, former police chief and councilman Pat McKinley makes $215,000 a year from 2 city pensions, one from LAPD and one from FPD. Compare that to the $12,000 – $20,000 most social security recipients get.

    And as I mentioned above, they get this boondoogle in benefits while contributing little or nothing during their working years.

    However, we must start NOW to get a handle on this runaway train called city retiree benefits. I have not even talked about retiree health care costs.

    First we must reduce the benefits for new employees.

    Second we must have all current employees start to pay their fair share (50%).

    Third we must raise the full retirement age for all city workers who have more than 3-5 years to go to retirement.

    All options should be on the table and the above list is just a framework or starting point to discuss this major financial problem facing Fullerton.

    A long answer to you havegunswilltravel but a majority of members in our past and current city councils have been asleep at the wheel for decades which has created this problem. It will take leadership and competence from future councils to clean up the mess.
    Or to put it another way…… a majority of our council members must want to fix the problem first and then must have the financial acumen to make the right changes to get the job done.

    The problems are deep. However, if the public starts to elect council members who both have the financial experience and the integrity necessary to succeed, we can have a city government that we all can be proud of.

    1. You are very biased. That much is clear. 

      It’s not isolated to Fullerton. It’s statewide. How to fix that statewide is the question.  

      Since you have all the answers, provide a few more. 

      What is the average  age in PERS that cops retire? You say 50. I say closer to 55. I also numerous that work until 60. 

      You talk about average life expectancy age. What’s the average age for cops in PERS? You relay 80. I say closer to 65. 

      Your desires will never come true unless Fullerton starts their own retirement program. If you go Sheriffs, you won’t have a choice in factors that you refer to. You only control the contract price, which is the number of deputies. 

      Alot of wishes for Fullerton on this blog will never come true. They are unrealistic and impossible to implement.  Simply put, if every agency in So Cal pays at an average rate with average benefits and retirement in comparison, and Fullerton is 50% less than that with 50% less cops (the dreams of Tony and this blog), what kind of cops do you think Fullerton will end up with in the long term?  Cities over the years have tried to lowball pay and benefits and retirement (no 3% at 50). They learned very quickly that they are able to hire cops, pay for their hiring, pay for their academy training, pay their salary during the academy, train them, and then the cops get off training and probation. They are good cops and a benefit to the city and department. Then all the sudden, they put in their notice they are leaving to another city. So you end up with a never ending rotation of cops, and the only cops that stay are the cops that can’t get hired anywhere else. A pattern seen over and over around California. 

      I know, I know. You are going to make Fullerton a city run by the people. Just being realistic as to what you will actually be able to change. The best bet for Fullerton is to bring in an outside Chief and Captain willing to make changes, and have confidence in them to make the PD better and make it known the community is behind them.  It will also be interesting to see if some of these supposed abuse cases have already been investigated and discipline rendered. In those cases, the cops can’t be disciplined anymore. You can’t come in and second guess past discipline. The past is the past. The future is the focus and without confidence and support by this group in the PD, this group will never be happy. Some of the changes brought up on here will never happen. Just being realistic. 

      Sent from my iPad

  69. THIS DOUBLE DIPPING PENSION FUND GARBAGE HAS TO STOP. NO LATERALLING FROM ONE DEPT TO ANOTHER WITHOUT GIVING UP ONE PENSION FROM THE OTHER, THIS IS CORRUPTION AT IT’S FINEST!

  70. Fullerton Lover,

    I was panning up when I read your blog. I would like to meet you at the next protest. I am sure we would have many topics to discuss.
    Regarding the number of officers….this issue is not as important as the quality of officers wearing the uniform. When I say quality, I mean integrity, compassion, understanding, intelligence, common sense, and the ability to make sound, effective judgements.
    Having a number of officers show up at an incident is for officer safety. I think it is a good policy, provided it is not used in the inference of illegal behavior.

    1. I figured out your story 9c1. You used your name when introducing yourself this weekend.

      You were right about the testing though. I was surprised. They call them the “PP Police” lol

  71. By Miriam Hernandez

    SOUTH LOS ANGELES (KABC) — An investigation is under way after a suspect was shot and killed on Sunday by police in South Los Angeles.

    The incident happened around 10:45 p.m. Sunday in the 1100 block of West 53rd Street.

    Officials said it started with a complaint from a neighbor about a loud party.

    Two patrol officers responded. As they approached a large group of young men outside a house, police said one man reached into his waistband and then started running.

    Officers chased the man. At one point, he turned around and showed a handgun, prompting an officer-involved shooting, according to Capt. Gary Walters of the Los Angeles Police Department.

    The suspect died at the scene. His identity has not been released.

    Officials said they recovered the suspect’s handgun. It’s unknown if one or both of the officers fired shots.

    The shooting remains under investigation.

    (Copyright ©2011 KABC-TV/DT. All Rights Reserved.)

  72. You are very biased. That much is clear. 

    It’s not isolated to Fullerton. It’s statewide. How to fix that statewide is the question.  

    Since you have all the answers, provide a few more. 

    What is the average  age in PERS that cops retire? You say 50. I say closer to 55. I also numerous that work until 60. 

    You talk about average life expectancy age. What’s the average age for cops in PERS? You relay 80. I say closer to 65. 

    Your desires will never come true unless Fullerton starts their own retirement program. If you go Sheriffs, you won’t have a choice in factors that you refer to. You only control the contract price, which is the number of deputies. 

    Alot of wishes for Fullerton on this blog will never come true. They are unrealistic and impossible to implement.  Simply put, if every agency in So Cal pays at an average rate with average benefits and retirement in comparison, and Fullerton is 50% less than that with 50% less cops (the dreams of Tony and this blog), what kind of cops do you think Fullerton will end up with in the long term?  Cities over the years have tried to lowball pay and benefits and retirement (no 3% at 50). They learned very quickly that they are able to hire cops, pay for their hiring, pay for their academy training, pay their salary during the academy, train them, and then the cops get off training and probation. They are good cops and a benefit to the city and department. Then all the sudden, they put in their notice they are leaving to another city. So you end up with a never ending rotation of cops, and the only cops that stay are the cops that can’t get hired anywhere else. A pattern seen over and over around California. 

    I know, I know. You are going to make Fullerton a city run by the people. Just being realistic as to what you will actually be able to change. The best bet for Fullerton is to bring in an outside Chief and Captain willing to make changes, and have confidence in them to make the PD better and make it known the community is behind them.  It will also be interesting to see if some of these supposed abuse cases have already been investigated and discipline rendered. In those cases, the cops can’t be disciplined anymore. You can’t come in and second guess past discipline. The past is the past. The future is the focus and without confidence and support by this group in the PD, this group will never be happy. Some of the changes brought up on here will never happen. Just being realistic. 

    1. Scared, huh? The Sheriff can do your job 37% cheaper. I guess I’d be worried, too. Especially about mandatory psych and physical exams for any FPD who stick around.

      1. I doubt anyone is scared. OC Sheriffs is a good department. Exams when Sheriffs take over aren’t the same as an applicant. 90% or more of the current PD would be hired. Goodrich would be hired for sure. Look around at PDs that have gone Sheriffs. Not too many but the transition process is pretty consistent. Sheriffs makes a great offer, brings in the teams, and the cost slowly rises as the years go by. Personally, I think this group would be much happier with their own PD in the long run.

        1. “Goodrich would be hired for sure.”

          Hired to do what? The only things he knows how to do are scarf carbs and lie to the public.

          The OCSD has its own PR apparatus. See ya Goodwrench.

          1. OC sheriff contract
            Rule #1
            Thou shall not hire any of the following baboons.
            Ken Hampton
            Cyclops
            The other 4 boobs at the Kelly scene
            Gooditch
            3 Blind mice
            Chester the Molester dude who turns off his recorder
            Taser boy hibbs
            Gang cop who destroys evidence, whats his nuts.

    2. I hate to agree with you. And don’t completely, even on this. But I’m not 100% sure about OCSD taking over I’ll admit.

      I was talking to a very nice lady at the protest on Saturday. Her son who was mentally ill was killed by an officer in Garden Grove 2 years ago. She has been diligently trying to seek justice. She told me that Garden Grove hired a new Police Chief who was doing a great job of reforming that department and was really taking excessive force complaints seriously.

      Again, I’m not committed one way or another yet on this. I think we need to thoughtfully consider all options and figure out what will be best for our future. Saving money is good. Saving lives is better.

      1. True. No reason to rush to judgment in that topic. That choice is a long ways off.

        There are numerous examples of cities talking about going Sheriffs, going Sheriffs, political threats of doing it, cities going and regretting it, some liking it, lowball offers which end up more expensive in the long run, and everything in between.

        Once things calm down, those choices will all be options.

    3. LASD never fell for % at 50, and LA County general members still pay for 50% of their pension, unless they want the worst retirement system in the state (2% at 65, no cost of living increase, no survivor benefits in Plan E). LA County still is able to recruit people, hell LASD is no longer recruiting men to join their force. And $13 million is totally reasonable… Pomona would have saved $3 million to go with LASD, but that is after the PD took over $10 million in cuts. Fullerton never cut police spending. Request the council get a Phase I (or whatever it’s called) quote from OCSD. It would be fiscal malfeasance not to.

  73. PART OF THE HIRING PROCESS IS TO HAVE RECRUITS DO NOT ONLY 400 QUESTION MMPI WRITTEN TEST, AND THEN BASED ON THOSE RESULTS IF THE PASS, ARE TO MEET WITH A PSYCHOLOGIST TO TEST JOB WORTHINESS!

  74. I notice that both Bankhead and McPension tout their support from the 124 year old FPD.

    Only problem is Fullerton didn’t become a city until 1904. So it looks like these dinosaurs can’t even count.

  75. LOL I like it. 

    If those cases are in their jackets (files), those would be the 10% I was talking about that wouldn’t be hired. Just depends on what has been found on them thus far. 

    Anonymous :
              OC sheriff contract
    Rule #1
    Thou shall not hire any of the following baboons.
    Ken Hampton
    Cyclops
    The other 4 boobs at the Kelly scene
    Gooditch
    3 Blind mice
    Chester the Molester dude who turns off his recorder
    Taser boy hibbs
    Gang cop who destroys evidence, whats his nuts.
            

    Anonymous :
              OC sheriff contract
    Rule #1
    Thou shall not hire any of the following baboons.
    Ken Hampton
    Cyclops
    The other 4 boobs at the Kelly scene
    Gooditch
    3 Blind mice
    Chester the Molester dude who turns off his recorder
    Taser boy hibbs
    Gang cop who destroys evidence, whats his nuts.
            

    Sent from my iPad

  76. Jt :
    I didn’t say it was higher than other city managers. I said it was a raise. You said it wasn’t. Someone who has presided over the worst episode in the city’s history probably doesn’t deserve a raise!

    NO its not a raise. Lets say if you get promoted. They will put your pay at the bottom pay of that new job. That is all it it. So Its is not considered a raise.

    1. John Doe – I understand what you are saying. Technically its not a raise, I get it. In actuality, his salary would go up from its current level of “pretty damn good” to a new level of “really good.”

      All I’m saying, and this is just what others have been saying all along is, considering the mess the city manager is presiding over, upping his income for ANY reason at this point doesn’t make a lot of sense.

  77. REALITY IS,

    Hello my friend. LAPD made it mandatory to hold their officers to a 5 year minimum contract so they would not lose those getting out of the academy. I am not sure if that policy is still in place today. As for me, I would implement a 10-year contract. It would insure that officers trained in a PD, would most likely stay their entire career in that dept., as they would settle down roots in the city they worked in, or nearby. It would also benefit a city, as they would be able to recoup costs of putting officers through academy and advanced training classes. The repay of expenses would come back to them in the way of calls for service, and a low, or no turnover force. This, plus the fact that a city could better plan on expenses in the long-run regarding PD personnel.

    1. Yea. OCSD did the same thing. I don’t think a 10 year contract is anywhere near realistic, but we will see. I think LAPD was 5 years and then mass exodus after 5 years. I think OCSD was 3 years, and then numerous also left then. They also always had outs in the contract where they could pay $2,000 or whatever to leave. Interesting concept that has been played with for years with PDs that had people leaving quickly when off probation due to low pay, bad schedules, politics, or whatever other reason they had.

  78. what a joke, more waste of tax payers money, Start letting cops go, It really is very unnecessary to have so many every city only needs like 15 patrol cars keep it simple there all just a waste of money

  79. Dumb question, but since I had a FPD officer a few years ago threatened to kick my ass just because I crossed the street at a cross walk (In ever other city in the world that I’ve lived in it was the law that you had to cross at the crosswalk) – is there any chance of a class action suit against the city for an ongoing pattern of violating our civil rights?

  80. I don’t think FPD officers are going to do anything ‘lightly’ or without ‘due consideration’ for some time to come.

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