Thanks, McKinley!

Here’s a message we received not long ago that is from someone who claims to have been a juror in the trial of the guy who blasted five holes into LAPD rookie Jay Cicinelli back in 1997. It has the ring of truth to it.

I was on the jury that convicted the man who shot Jay Cicinelli. It was unbelieveable watching a man, who by all rights should have been dead after being shot 5 times with a 45 at point blank range, losing an eye in the process, get on the stand and testify! The prosecuting attorney even showed us the police star he had been wearing on his chest that had a big dent where one of the bullets had struck it. I felt so bad for Jay then, in this 20s and being injured so badly just as he was beginning his career as a police officer. I have often wondered what he ended up doing with his life. I was shocked and very sad to find out that he was one of the officers involved in this beating! It’s hard for me to imagine how someone, who has been through something as horrific as Jay has, could be an effective police officer. How could you see criminals every day and not think about the one that tried to kill you? I’m not trying to make excuses for what has been done to Kelly Thomas, just giving my opinion about why I think Jay Cicinelli should have gone into a different profession.

 

The lapses in judgment became chronic...

Opinion duly noted, and I don’t think there’s many people who would disagree with you, except, maybe former FPD Chief Pat McKinley, who hired Cicinelli as a favor to an old LAPD crony. McKinley now wonders aloud to the media how Cicinelli “could have strayed so far from his training.” Of course that’s just self-serving clap-trap.

142 Replies to “Thanks, McKinley!”

  1. The most common question I hear that I don’t have an answer to is how does one legally collect 70 % of one’s pay without taxes for diabilities suffered on the job, and still work for 12 years collecting 100% of your pay for being healthy and working full time as an officer?

    1. Finally, it is back to “follow the money trail.”

      The critical question is: “What entity pays the disability benefit?” Do not assume that it is the City of Los Angeles. Frequently, public employees are allowed to “opt in” to various private disability insurance programs… and sometimes they even pay a little bit more of their paycheck for that coverage.

      Where was it reported that Officer Cicinelli was receiving 70% of his former compensation as a junior LAPD officer??
      WSH

      1. You are getting warm Hume. I think he was what, a 6 month cop at the time max? I would be surprised if he’s collecting $500 a month from that pension if that. He may have had to sign off on it altogether just to get on with Fullerton. It would be nice if FFFF would print facts instead of partial information just to get people all riled up. There’s not many people left here but it’s funny ready the information put up by them, when it’s so clearly just to get the group going again. Up down up down, in out, in out. Ahhhhhhh.

        1. It would be nice if the City of Fullerton produced facts instead of hiding behind the Police Officer’s Bill of Rights. The police industry is experiencing a pent up backlash here.

          1. Well. You could at least speak truths as well. Fullerton is not hiding behind POBAR. They don’t have a choice. You know that anyone that has ignored POBAR has paid huge settlements later on. Just like how people say cops should be fired immediately. That has happened many times, and then when they are found innocent or it’s found that the person making the allegation is lying, then the city pays huge settlements later on for firing the cop. Everything has reasons, and the backlash isn’t as big as you think. it’s huge here in the land of FFFF, and FFFF will never change POBAR, but as I’ve said all along the thought of “most” or “all” cops being bad isn’t as prevalent as the small world of FFFF says it is.

    2. First of all the facts this supposed juror stated are not even true! Why did this juror not sign a name to this! Sounds like FFFF at it again making shit up just trying to keep things alive! This is a non issues now fffer’s! If you look at all recent stories it’s not about the thad issues it’s all politics! Recall BS! Just what bushala wants! FFFF doesn’t give a shit about thomas he has his own agenda! All these stories are BS! Just like this last one! The best part is that maybe 1% of Fullerton residence even know about this blog! Keep up the good work ffffers!!!

        1. LOL now that’s funny Steve. I actually just really did laugh out loud when I read that just wondering if you were actually saying it seriously.

          1. Yes, but there you go with another aspersion. I am not talking about the commenters, who can say anything. Will you please show me a statement that a poster at FFFF has made purported to be fact that was made up, or even honestly wrong?

            I am not defending this website, nor implying that you are wrong. I want to know the reliability of my source of information.

      1. I have the distinct impression that this F fffer’s is the genius webmaster over at the anti-recall site.

        Still partying like it’s 1995 over there are we?

    1. That someday is alot sooner than most people can imagine. The pensions are a financial tsunami. A tsunami only has a wave height of a few feet while it is traveling in the open seas and is virtually undetectable as most of it is HIDDEN underwater. Fullerton needs to wake up…. She’s a comin’ ashore folks.

    2. It will be fine. Cities didn’t pay a dollar into it for years. Now it’s their responsibility to fund it due to bad money management over the years. They will change the new hire process, but all existing employees will stay as they are and everyone will be happy. It’s all consistent statewide. Wonderful state we have though. Now we have $40 million for the Dream Act too, so there is plenty of money for everyone. 🙂

      1. Wrong. Illinois is shutting down (7) prisons/state run prison facilities. They are laying off 1,100 correctional officers. Cities all over Illinois are laying off cops, fire fighters, city employees. It is comming to California already too. At least 500 Parole Agents are being let go along with support staff etc… the Reality Is has started happening and it will not stop, city and county level layoffs will come soon. Plus the counties will never be able to deal with the prison release problems, Jerry Brown promised the Sheriffs something, he is not going to be able to deliver and the system will fall.

        1. I agree. My Dream Act $$ was being sarcastic. Yes, we have had layoffs for several years now and it will get worse. Trimming the fat as they say. Or as FFFF says, trimming the fat cops because they are all fat and all muscle heads on steroids. Hmmm. You are right though, the crime is going to get crazy real soon. No jail time and the release of thousands of inmates, with little to no supervision.

      2. The public is already overtaxed in CA. There is little appetite for paying yet more taxes – as basic services are cut back. The state gov. is run by union goons and Mexican nationals. People will vote with their feet. There’s no iron curtain to keep the tax slaves in Ms. Reality. The sun shines just as brightly across the border in AZ. Sorry, you guys ate the golden goose. Good luck.

  2. I have to wonder how much this is going to end up costing those of us who live in Fullerton. Will the 3 Stooges (McKinley, Doc HeeHaw and Bankhead) mow my lawn on Saturdays when I can no longer afford my lawn service because I’m paying off lawsuits?

  3. I was wondering, for the 12 years prior to the Kelly Thomas incident, did Cicinelli perform his duties professionally and without incident? Not that it makes a difference; I’m simply curious.

    1. A caller to John and Ken who runs a Fullerton home for juvenile offenders claimed Cincinelli responded to the facility on at least two occasions and was less than helpful. He claimed Cincinelli attempted to goad the kids into a fight (presumably so he step up physicality of the incident) and did so on one occasion – kicking a teenage girl to the ground. The other officer who responded that day was also taken aback by Ms. Cincinelli’s actions.

      1. Yes, the caller said Cicinelli wasn’t useful or helpful at all. He fits the FPD pattern of escalating low level incidents into major conflagrations. Instead of these types finding a peaceful solution to an incident, someone has to lose their liberty and go to jail – or worse.

        Apparently, Cicinelli liked the homeless to fear him and cower in his presence. If Kelly was aware of Cicinelli, he must not have been all that impressed. That may have been an irritation to Cicinelli.

        Way back, this freelancer here actually cobbled together a decent report in just a couple hours. He describes Cicinelli as surgically striking Kelly’s face with glancing blows. Wonder where Cicinelli got the idea that facial injuries wouldn’t cause death? Where would he have gotten that extra-curricular training?

      2. Formal complaint filed? Have that person give you a copy of the IA disposition. I bet they don’t have one. 🙂

  4. Isn’t it interesting to note that all the worst injuries to his face at the hand of Cicinelli are all around the eye region and carfully placed strikes they were. Broken bones in the upper nose between the eyes. Broken eye socket on the left side. Can hitting someone really hard between the eyes cause blindness?A case of ….Do unto others as they “have done” unto you.?…

    1. I never really made the connection about the face injuries to the face made by Cicinelli. I’m so glad you brought this to light. Many others, like myself, may not have made the connection. Also, why is no one putting any blame on the man from the restaurant who lied when placing the call, saying “this person” was breaking into cars. Is anybody going to press charges on this person for calling in a fraudulent call? Just would like to know.

      1. We will find out what is true and what is made up at trial. The part about the girl calling was said by FFFF. If she testifies that she saw him trying to open car doors and called the PD due to that, there will be nothing else to add.

          1. Do you think that the city cameras cover that entire area, every car, every area 24 hours a day? It might be on the city cameras. Not saying it’s not. Just thinking logically that the camera doesn’t cover that entire lot.

  5. In my opinion that was aggravated assualt on an already well beaten up person not responding to those blows .Those injuries resulted in the loss of life to a person who had every right to be a resident of fullerton. Why is that officer still walking around.

  6. I cant wait till both officers are found not guilty. Good luck getting convictions in Orange County. So not going to happen.

    1. I can’t wait til FPD is disbanded. Good luck getting a job in a nearby citiy when they hear you’re a Fullerton Keystoner. Enjoy your future mall guard gig.

    2. I know, who will you suck off behind the dumpsters if they are sent to prison? Esp. now that your dad has passed. Sucks to be you.

      1. If they are guilty, they will be convicted. Its going to be a balls out, full scale brawl of a trial. Can’t wait.

        1. Irrelavant Reality Is-guess what smartass? they ARE guilty no matter what a fucking coplicking. fascist crowd says

          1. LOL yes Hoe. We all know that your eyes never open and your ears never hear. You made that clear years ago. 🙂

  7. http://www.helpguide.org/mental/schizophrenia_symptom.htm

    The symptoms for schizophrenia are easy to spot and not uncommon among the homeless population.Did the offices Jay Cicinelli and Ramos know?Did they even care if they did know about his illness. According to recent investigations Into LA mens central Jail there have been investigation of officers conductioning “baton practice” on the inmates many of which are mentaly ill. The mentaly ill there sometimes are refered to as “dings” by officers.

    1. Right. Now back to Lexipol. Are they practicing Lexipol tactics, and will Lexipol back the methods. When experts are brought to trial to explain the tactics used by the Fullerton 6, they will be referring to Lexipol training.

      Before the trial, someone had better look into Lexipol and determine if their standards are what you want to live with for the rest of your life, your childrens’ lifes, and your grandchildrens’ lifes.

      Of couse, Lexipol can come to the trial and swear that the Fulletton 6 in no way followed their training.

      1. Lexipol is the best in the business. Hundreds and hundreds of agencies are using them, and more sign on each month. Their policies will hold up in court without an issue.

        Training is the responsibility of the PD and has nothing to do with Lexipol. The training files will be brought into question for sure.

  8. I loved how fast McKinley backed the bus over Ramos and Cicinelli. In order to save his beloved FPD’s reputation. A little too late for that McPension.

    McMillion said on CNN that the other four would have no culpability. I don’t know what that was supposed to mean, but all four have violated department policy and it’s sayonara to those creeps or all hells gonna break lose.

    Let’s face it Cue Ball. Your department is a cesspool and now the whole planet knows it. And it’s your fault. There’s no damage control your tiny little brain can conjure up to make the truth go away.

  9. My Username Rocks :
    I was wondering, for the 12 years prior to the Kelly Thomas incident, did Cicinelli perform his duties professionally and without incident? Not that it makes a difference; I’m simply curious.

    We will never know the answer to that question because to complain about a policeman in Fullerton you turn in your complaint at the police dept front desk. How many people walked away in futility after finding out that was how the system worked?

    1. It’s like that at every police department. Have you ever see the undercover videos of people turning in complaint forms 5-10 years ago? Pretty good.

  10. fullerton lover :
    The most common question I hear that I don’t have an answer to is how does one legally collect 70 % of one’s pay without taxes for diabilities suffered on the job, and still work for 12 years collecting 100% of your pay for being healthy and working full time as an officer?

    I have asked the same question as I watched a retired/ permanently “disabled” Sheriffs Deputy train for a marathon. She was on permanent disability from a hand-to-hand combat training exercise that “damaged her ankle.”
    Go figure.

  11. truthseeker :
    That someday is alot sooner than most people can imagine. The pensions are a financial tsunami. A tsunami only has a wave height of a few feet while it is traveling in the open seas and is virtually undetectable as most of it is HIDDEN underwater. Fullerton needs to wake up…. She’s a comin’ ashore folks.

    Absolutely!

    1. Try unfunded liabilities in the State of California pegged at 500 Billion dollars as we speak. That’s right, check the facts, 500 Billion with a “B”. You better damn well believe the tsunami is heading our way and very soon…………..

  12. Dr Zillman,

    I can remember back to the days when one of our deputies went out on a back injury, then was seen by investigators dancing for Chip-N-Dales. He was subsequently fired.

  13. Well, I’m no Cicinelli fan, but he did go 12 years before something bad happened. Thats many years longer than some of the 2 eyed cops made it before getting caught for breaking the law.

    1. Depends on what you consider bad and whether or not you had the privelige of actually meeting him in an uncompromising position on the street. IE, he had the badge and gun and you got the shaft. And like Forrest Gump so eloquently said, “And that’s all I have to say about that”.

    2. And how do you know that he wasn’t going off every weekend and never got caught? I think we are just seeing the tip of the malevolent FPD iceberg here.

      I’m sure the real wreckage is more than half submerged.

  14. FULLERTON

    Fundraising movie: The Naughty Teddy, at 129 W. Commonwealth Ave., is showing cult classic “The Rocky Horror Picture Show” at 11:30 p.m. on Friday with all the proceeds from the $10 admission going to Mary’s Kitchen in Kelly Thomas’ name, said Dawn Aquino, the store’s owner. Mary’s Kitchen is a nonprofit group in Orange that serves food to the homeless. Information: 714-447-1130.

    Lou Ponsi

    http://www.ocregister.com/news/-141697-ocprint–.html

  15. look at this police chase covered by TV news involving FPD- even the newsperson is like “WTF.. who does that?”
    theyre breaking out the vehicle window with their batons and beating the suspect , there is a bunch of them with a dog and it seems they are enjoying themselves-wonder if anyone can be recognized http://youtu.be/b_1RiyzAXEk

    1. Wow. The man appears to be waving his arms rolling up and down his window. He looks like he may be possibly not understanding the command to give up as there is a dog on the loose. Why did they sic the dogs on him first and approach from the side if he had a weapon. After they break the window they stand waiting for him to get out and on the ground. They then pull him out and then start beating him while he is on the ground .Watching this video I would have guessed it was FPD if I didn’t know.

  16. interview with Bruce Whitaker, City Council member. he describes the stonewalling he’s getting from Joe Felz, how much of what he has heard internally from the police has been lies, how the most accurate information he gets is via email, eye-witnesses, FFFF, or elsewhere – not from the police or other city workers. pretty good interview. he deserves our support. so does sharon quirk-silva.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3DoiZIUn9I

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-for-Kelly-Thomas/202121386512154

  17. I fell off my chair laughing!
    Look at #1. How do you legally collect 70% of your former LAPD pay tax free. Great question!! Instead of answering the question, some BOZO comes on ok ok its Snow Hume who ALWAYS supports the status quo with police and he says it could be he opted into private insurance when he signed up. Wow how clairvoyant!
    Cyclops is on a State disability pension for the past 11 years or so. Period. No obfuscation! Get real bozo, he is shaking down the system just like his Chief Sickly Sellers is gonna do. “Oh oh! I works so hard I need stress relief” pension for the next 40 years! No wonder Fullerton PD costs so much money!

    1. Dear Paul,
      I have been a Certified Public Accountant, Class A license, since 1986. Even though I did not want it that way, the lion’s share of my time in regular public accountancy practice was in preparation of income tax returns, income tax planning and dispute support, and so on. I was asking about who the payer is, because my experience in income tax work has taught me that the nature of the payer, and the nature of the payments into the plan, can govern the taxability of the plan.

      As a general rule, with any income benefit, the amount which is contributed will not be taxed as income when it is distributed. There can be some interesting methods for averaging, or for the periodic recognition of the recapture of contributions.
      In a handful of areas, there are significant differences between California income taxability of certain kinds of income and Federal income taxability of the same kinds of income. [Similarly, there are differences in deductibility of certain things.]
      All I asked was to find out the source of the report about his disability benefits, because it might tell me a little more about which entity is paying them… a governmental or a private plan.

      But I will, on my next trip to the law library, attempt to find out whether the federal or California tax law provides for tax-free disability insurance payments. In the years I did income tax work, I never had any disability insurance recipients as clients. All of the clients of my employers were receiving investment income, or were supercompensated entertainment figures.

      When I get the information, I will post it here. I don’t claim to be all that current on income taxation law, and it just doesn’t sound right. But things do change in the income tax arena.

      Now, Paul, for my last point. In law, we say that “worker’s compensation benefits and State Disability Insurance benefits are like oil and water.” The latter — SDI — relate to disabilities that are suffered off of the job. In contrast, worker’s compensation relates to disabilities that are a result of work conditions. Frauds in SDI are punishable only as ordinary insurance fraud. Frauds in Worker’s Compensation are also punishable as ordinary insurance fraud, but in addition there are all sorts of special criminal provisions for Worker’s Compensation fraud. If Officer Cicinelli is receiving a disability-based pension from the Worker’s Compensation fund, then his failure to report income from similar work would constitute serious Worker’s Comp fraud.

      There is a logic to every question I ask here. No one else on this website, or anywhere in the City of Fullerton, has done as much as I to identify and demonstrate the unprosecuted crimes which are associated with the death of Kelly Thomas. And I was the first to suggest, and adduce some evidence, for the possibility of a prior conspiracy to harm Kelly Thomas. Just because I will fight here against the DA’s “throwing the Mexican under the bus” does not mean that I “ALWAYS” support “the status quo with police.” WSH

      1. Are you idiots for real?

        The city of LA has their own pension program. The disability pension he receives is being paid out through that program. He doesn’t receive money from the state.

        1. And people here think that if a cop is injured after being on the job for a month to 6 months, they get a full funded pension for life?

  18. LAPD wears an oblong, shield style badge and not a “police star” as described by the ‘juror’. While his memory might be clouded due to time, the visual lasted with him to the point he relates it here. I smell a rat…

  19. Jay Cicinelli is a sick, evil, mentally twisted bastard. I have a feeling that he has been involved in a LOT of incidents of misconduct and brutality over the years, and we just don’t know about them.

    I have a feeling that homeless people and troubled teenagers are probably his favorite targets. He preys on people who are vulnerable, people who he thinks have no credibility and thus basically he can do whatever he wants with no recourse. I have a bad feeling that there might be a lot of other people who suffered a similar similar fate to Kelly Thomas, except that there wasn’t a video camera around at the time.

    I have said from the very beginning that I believe the real reason why the LAPD didn’t want Jay Cicinelli back is because someone there realized he had severe psychological problems after the shooting. They knew he was a walking time bomb. In fact, if I remember right, there was a letter published in a newspaper opinion section, where someone said they knew one of the Fullerton police officers and one in particular is known to have been a “ticking time bomb” for years.

    I don’t know whether he was always evil, or if the shooting pushed him over the edge. But that doesn’t matter anymore. Whatever the real reason, he is a monster.

    I would very seriously doubt that this is the first incident that Jay Cicinelli was involved in. In fact, that’s what I want to know…who are his other victims?

    This is just the first time he was caught. For all we know, he could have been getting away with all sorts of horrible things in the past 12 years.

    1. Of course you feel that way Chris. I’m sure everyone already knew that. You feel, you think, you know. Yes, we all know how you feel and did long before Kelly. 🙂

    1. The heavy punches to the head happen 2:32 into the video.Should an officer punch a suspect in the head if he is trying to detain him?What factor above the neck pertains to subduing a person?

    2. Those are brutal mother fuckers.

      The dark haired skinny cop is looks like Hamilton and the fat cop throwing the punches could be Cincinelli.

  20. The reason why I cared about this case and want these officers charged is because this happened to my friend’s cousin. He was shot by an off duty marshall. The marshall was beating up his wife in a alley behind the tattoo parlor where Ryan Daniel Gonzales worked. The marshall’s wife was screaming for someone to help her and Ryan was trying to help when this off duty marshall shot him. You guys are so good with a computer. We know that there is a second video out there. Can you please help us find it.
    The case has been dragging for over 3 years now.
    Here are the links as to what happened to him.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/07/local/me-marshal7

    I have tried to find the youtube video but haven’t been successful. The attorney did finally get a video from LAPD but we need the other video and we know it’s out there. Please help us with this case. This case has been in the LA Times but I honestly feel this case was forgotten. He didn’t have John and Ken helping him. I don’t want to forget abut Ryan because he was tunring his life around and he was so young and shot in the back by the roque Marshall. Please help us!
    The attorneys name is Michael Gobraty 1.949.502.7755.

  21. If I wanted to spend about 4 hours, i could show you numerous examples of both made up things and their biggest move, writing just a very small portion of a truth just to lead people into forming the opinion they want people to form here. They love to provide about 5% of the truth, knowing the rest of the facts, just so people will say “wow, that fullerton pd…..” or “wow, that city council…..”.

    Steve Brow :
    Yes, but there you go with another aspersion. I am not talking about the commenters, who can say anything. Will you please show me a statement that a poster at FFFF has made purported to be fact that was made up, or even honestly wrong?
    I am not defending this website, nor implying that you are wrong. I want to know the reliability of my source of information.

      1. Not even close to 4 hours. As I said, nothing in your opinion and your opinion is far more biased to the other side than mine.

      2. This Reality Is character has been wrong about almost everything since he first arrived. No charges, Kelly was resisting arrest, etc, etc.

        Just ignore him.

        1. Odd. I was saying that I’ve been right on everything said from the start. 2 charged at most, resisting arrest, running, fighting. We will see at trial how right I am, as much as you clearly refuse to see that. 🙂

  22. Reality Is :Well. You could at least speak truths as well. Fullerton is not hiding behind POBAR. They don’t have a choice. You know that anyone that has ignored POBAR has paid huge settlements later on. Just like how people say cops should be fired immediately. That has happened many times, and then when they are found innocent or it’s found that the person making the allegation is lying, then the city pays huge settlements later on for firing the cop. Everything has reasons, and the backlash isn’t as big as you think. it’s huge here in the land of FFFF, and FFFF will never change POBAR, but as I’ve said all along the thought of “most” or “all” cops being bad isn’t as prevalent as the small world of FFFF says it is.

    I agree with you that the City has no choice, but given no choice, they are still hiding behind POBAR. The backlash at least includes the DA’s office. Why don’t you talk to Gordon Graham and let us know what he thinks of this case.

      1. No doubt. Since you introduced me to him several weeks ago, I have been periodically trying to draw attention to him in these comments.

        Since it is his company who supplies training standards to the FPD, most police agencies in California, and in half the states of the union, it will be Gordon Graham, or one of his students who is called to the stand to interpret the actions of the charged officers. This may be done by the prosecution, the defense, or both.

        As Graham first became famous within his industry by changing procedures after the Rodney King beating, the Kelly Thomas incident is likely the subject of his future writing and future changes in procedure.

        But also, I am curious if and to what extent the mind of Graham was behind the hands of the Fullerton six. Then again, Graham could just as easily think that the incident was a perversion of his training.

        I’d like to know his view.

        1. I just went to another of his classes a few weeks ago. I learn something every time I go.

          I don’t think his mind was behind them at all. I think he will be the first to point out every policy violation they did if he’s asked. His policies are all written or changed based on case law changes, and they are written in a way that can be open to analysis of each individual incident, not just a broad brush. This is good because even people on the far other side can be shown that something might not be a policy violation like they think.

  23. “…But I will, on my next trip to the law library, attempt to find out whether the federal or California tax law provides for tax-free disability insurance payments…”

    I currently hold a separate UNUM disability policy from my employer-provided disability insurance that has a tax-free payout. The policy pays a tax-free benefit provided you do not take the yearly premium as a tax deduction. Basic tax code.

  24. Pasadena cop uses art to open doors for homeless families

    Janette Williams, Staff Writer
    Posted: 10/12/2011 04:27:01 PM PDT

    PASADENA – Everything he needed to know about being a cop, Victor Cass joked, he learned at Art Center College of Design.
    In his 19 years with the Pasadena Police Department, the 1989 Art Center grad has combined his artistic skills with gritty on-the-street police work, including as a member of the Homeless Outreach-Psychiatric Evaluation (HOPE) Team.

    Now Cass has been chosen to help kick off a new art-inspired campaign to be launched later this year by Door of Hope. The Pasadena agency, established in 1996, now helps about 100 homeless families every year to stay together and transition into permanent housing.

    The campaign theme is “Every Door Has a Story.”

    And yes, Cass said, he’s painting a door.

    “I got this door with a big glass pane, that was one of the challenges – what do I do?” Cass said. “Then it came to me. Faux stained glass.”

    Cass said he was inspired by the stained glass windows at his church, Trinity Presbyterian in Pasadena. In acrylic, outlined in black model paint, he is creating the image of a homeless family being welcomed through the Door of Hope by outreach team members.

    Among them are Reuben Gallegos and Kitty Galt from Passageways.

    Cass is there, in the bottom right-hand corner.

    “It’s a very rare self-portrait,” he said, laughing.

    Tim Peters, Pasadena Door of Hope’s executive director, said the idea is to use doors as a symbol of change and opportunity.

    Four

    Advertisement

    painted doors – at least one by Door of Hope clients – were the centerpiece of a fundraising benefit at Castle Green on Oct. 10.
    “The event is a springboard,” Peters said. “We want to help people in the community recognize that every door does have a story, and give them a chance to submit their `door,’ in a drawing, a painting, even a story or poem, and we’re going to put together a coffee-table book … It’s part of our campaign to bring awareness to homeless issues of families and children.”

    1. Just like the human race, there are those that move positively into change, then those that silde into a psychotic us vs. them ignorance.

      It’s about leadership. It is lacking on our PD + City Council.

  25. Fullerton Streets: Been thinkin’ bout what you said on Schizophrenia… Did I understand you to mean that if a homeless person is schizophrenic the cops should not approach, detain, arrest, or question them? Please tell me I misunderstood.

    And Kelly did not loose four (4) quarts of blood. Where did you take physiology?

  26. What happened to the woman who saw the backpack KT had the night of July 5 and recognized it. She said that it, or one just like it had been stolen out of her car a few weeks prior to the incident. In the parking area there. Supposedly had her son’s name embroidered on it. Haven’t heard about it for a while.

  27. Reality Is: Keep up the good work.

    Question for you… If Ramos and Cicinelli had refused to assist a fellow officer who put out a “Officer needs help” call and they arrived and said ” I think the officer is too rough with the detainee, I’m not going to help!” could they be charged with anything?

    1. They would be fired. It wouldnt ever happen though. I’ve seen cops stop the use of force, limit it, and stop it. But as you arrive on a call like that you are ready for anything and everything. As I jump out of my car my adrenaline is at the highest level, not knowing if an officer will be dead, injured, or the fight over. If the fight appears still in progress, a quick determination is made be it baton strikes, taser, carotid restraint, etc.

      No cop would ever run up and say sorry can’t help too rough. Violation of policy and serious officer safety issues. Unable to perform the job.

      1. And those same cops would never write an honest and independent account of what happened in their reports. Because of course these didn’t. And they’re all going to be fired.

        That’s the New Reality. 🙂

        1. Who said anyone didn’t write an honest account of what happened in their reports? That’s the first I have heard of that. I’ve heard the reports were very honest.

          1. There is, in fact, documented evidence of falsified reports by FPD in a number of cases that have recently come to light.

      2. Interesting. They can be fired for not assisting in what they see is use of excessive force but not for sexually abusing women after arresting them, not for writing false reports, not for false arrest, not for brutality, not for turning off or destroying DAR devices. Yes, that pretty much describes FPD. This, in fact, is what all the protest is about. Thanks for making our point, again.

    2. Since when does “assist” mean participate in a murderous beat down. As in “hey Hampton you hold his legs while I taser him five times and pummel his fave eight times even though he isn’t moving anymore.

      Your victim mentality is comical. Only in the twisted self-delusional cop world can the perpetrator of torture and murder be worthy of victimhood.

    1. Some people are. But most people, even FFFF blind followers, know that won’t ever happen. 2 cops in a foot pursuit and then a fight, calling for help, are going to get help. If the cops kicked the guys ass, that will be addressed after the incident is code 4. This incident was going to be investigated. 3 days later it wasn’t even know it was going to be a death. Just a use of force investigation. Things changed, inside the PD and outside. FFFF takes the credit for the outcome, I think it would have happened anyways. So be it.

  28. So in the mantime, thanks to FFFF ?, two families are sacrificed so that Ron Thomas is placated and he can ask for more money from the city to “help the homeless.”

    I think Singer, or whatever his name is, should be sued for dereliction of duty for running away and leaving Ramos and Cicinelli to hang in the wind.

    1. Two families sacrificed? WTF? So now the police department is supposed to be a charity for the families of felonious cops?

      Ramos and Cicinelli abandoned their own families by being murderers. That’s the truth. Embrace it.

  29. Ron Thomas is the one who should be charged with murder, not Ramos and Cicinelli.

    Ron Thomas is the one who left his son in the streets to rot and is now trying to convince everyone that he is a victim. Ron Thomas should have been in jail right alongside Manny Ramos.

    1. It boggles my mind that some people suggest that if a person’s family does not care about them, it’s okay for police officers to beat them to death. But obviously, that is what FPD believes. Therein lies another problem.

  30. Hog Wild, you know from the innumerable posts that Kelly Thomas family could not force him to be treated for schizophrenia. They could not force him to take his meds. Kelly chose to live in Fullerton. This has been mentioned innumerable times and you continue to use the old hack of Ron Thomas left his son in the streets. Kelly was 35 not 12!
    Start saying something much more meaningful that adds to the conversation instead of being a Fullerton PD hack.
    To JayNBond – yes two families are sacrificed in this whole thing, and every policeman needs to think of their families when they decide to Kill someone with the cameras rolling! If you cannot take the heat RESIGN FROM THE FORCE!

    1. Kelly Thomas died because he was beaten by a group of 6 Fullerton police officers. If his homelessness, mental illness, or even so-called suspicion of burglary played a role in his death it has to do with the perspective and the motives of the police officers who will make as a target of their brutality someone who has less social power, lower perceived social status, is marginalized and disenfranchised, who is powerless, and who has no real voice and they do this because–-they can. They see someone like Kelly Thomas as worthless and disposable, someone who is not credible in the event that they survive a brutal beating and are less likely to be believed even if they have the resilience to step forward and speak up. They choose vulnerable people who they see as nonthreatening to THEM. It is what makes it particularly despicable, really. They are cowardly bullies, only worse, because carry weapons, act under color of authority, and take it to the extreme.

  31. Jaynbond :Reality Is: Keep up the good work.
    Question for you… If Ramos and Cicinelli had refused to assist a fellow officer who put out a “Officer needs help” call and they arrived and said ” I think the officer is too rough with the detainee, I’m not going to help!” could they be charged with anything?

    Interesting. They can be fired for not assisting in what they see is use of excessive force but not for sexually abusing women after arresting them, not for writing false reports, not for false arrest, not for brutality, not for turning off or destroying DAR devices. Yes, that pretty much describes FPD. This, in fact, is what all the protest is about. Thanks for making our point, again.

  32. Good save, good save.

    Anonymous :
    There is, in fact, documented evidence of falsified reports by FPD in a number of cases that have recently come to light.

  33. Just because KT would not take medication does not give Ron Thomas the right or “EXCUSE” to abandond Kelly and then when something goes wrong blame other people. That’s exactly what happened and what Ron Thomas did. He is a disgusting excuse for a father. Nobody I know has a perfect child, Nobody! But that is no excuse for not taking care of them and if KT was like minded to a young child, all the more reason for Ron T. to follow his progress on the streets.

    Kelly must have felt completely alone day after day with no one there for him. Not even once in a while to see if he needed anything. Anything at all. A shirt, a shower now and then, a pair of shoes. Everyday medication like aspirin or Tyl. The lonliness must have been overwhelming for Kelly. No wonder he broke into cars and businesses. Looking for something to identify with or hoping someone wouild talk to him inwhat he thought was a normal manner. At least he is now at peace.

    1. I agree. I think it was a statement consistent with FFFF policy. Say two words and let the clan run with the true meaning of them. 🙂

    2. How do you know?

      I know that the reports DO NOT reflect what happened and that furthermore superiors collaborated in the collusion to create similar reports.

      See, none of you goons ever thought anybody would look into the murder of a dirty homeless bum – as Kelly has been described over and over again by you FPD trolls.

      1. Oh you know more than most. I know that due to them viewing the video and writing reports together they all match up perfectly, as they should. Superiors don’t do police reports if they weren’t there. They do admin paperwork for use of force, taser, etc.

        Copy goons. I like goonies better. 🙂

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