Fullerton City Council Term Limits – Who’s For and Who’s Against

UPDATE: Here’s a post from last winter, published again to remind the Friends that Fullerton’s decision-makers promised to put the term limits issue on the next available ballot. Of course that opportunity came and went with the 72nd Assembly Special Election primary. It could still be done in January 2010 if the Special Election itself is required. In any case there is a General Election primary election next June. So let’s all remember!

In dramatic fashion our friends on the Fullerton City Council decided on January 6th that the voters of Fullerton should decide whether a twelve-year term limit for council members is right for Fullerton.

Pam Keller joined campaign promise keepers Shawn Nelson and Sharon Quirk in placing the issue on the first available ballot, which should be in June, 2010. Predictably, antediluvian councilmen Don Bankhead and Dick Jones opposed the motion believing that you can never be around too long, be too hidebound, too boring, and too inert to serve the public.

As usual, the good government types (i.e. we know what’s good for you so sit down and shut up) like Jan Flory were on hand to oppose the idea, knowing as they do that the longer you are in office the more likely you are to identify with public employees instead of constituents. These folks pretend to defend the public’s right to choose who their elected representatives are even though they don’t seem to trust the public to do much of anything else without government intervention.

We strongly support term limits. We believe that public choice will be enhanced by term limits because the well-financed incumbents will be forced to give way to new representation that might actually give people of real talent a chance to participate in governance, people who now largely acquiesce to the inevitability of incumbency. Fortunately, a majority of the council seem to agree.

The outstanding legal issue is whether the limits can be applied to previous years in office. The final wording of the plebiscite will have to address this. Let’s hope it works out so we can end the Age of Dinosaurs in Fullerton.

38 Replies to “Fullerton City Council Term Limits – Who’s For and Who’s Against”

  1. Well, hell, maybe a new era is dawning in F-town. It would be so great to get rid of the old knee-jerk staff-stooges.

    Even though i’d rather see an 8 year limit 12 is a lot better than nothing!

    At first I didn’t believe FFF could do much but now I have to admit – you guys are changing things for the better. And thanks to Quirk and Nelson for sticking to their campaign promises.

  2. The question is what Pam Keller and Sharon Quirk will do once their time on city council is up. Will they really go back to teaching? Did Norby ever go back to teaching? No. Can you think of one politician who went back to the public school system? (no, Tony Blair at Harvard doesn’t count).
    My bet is that one of them will shoot for the lackluster Loretta Sanchez’s seat if Sanchez decides to unseat a Senator. Or, they might go for an Assembly seat in the state.
    But back in the classroom? I don’t think so, and from what I’ve seen. Two political animals have been created.

  3. I guess Eelson would be one of those Political Animals Too! I am sure he is looking at next level also……

  4. Sanchez is already grooming Quirk-Silva.. Interesting, was Quirk, now Quirk-Silva.. Looking to the future, the Latino/Hispanic vote?

  5. I used to think that term limits were a good thing. Now, after seeing the good and the bad people both get termed out, I’m not so sure. I would rather see a serious effort to get new blood elected when needed.

    As for why Norby didn’t go back to teaching, I believe he already had about 20 years in the classroom. Also, as a teacher I know that it is extremely difficult to get hired right back on as a teacher especially if you have been out of the classroom for 8+ years.

    On a side note, I was pleasantly shocked to see the council deny Sunny Hills HS’s request for $10,000! They acted responsibly with our money. Thank you!

    1. I hear you, Greg. The idea that in a free marketplace of ideas no choice of idea (or candidate) should be eliminated is persuasive.

      The only problem is that the monetary power of incumbency precludes real choice – even at the local level. Consider how entrenched a state legislator would be without term limits. Parasites like (fill in name of your favorite nincompoop Assmeblyman) would be in office until well past senility – unto death, in fact.

  6. I was surprised to read that the F-site was pro-term limits. Seems the “free marketplace of ideas” is the rule around here in libertarian-land…

    …and when one can’t get their ideas across and win in that marketplace? Well, limit the marketplace and support term limits. Seems both democrats and republicans vary in support of this depending upon where they live and the trouble they have at getting rid of “the other side”.

    Something tells me that the F-site would not be in support of term limits if there were 3 Shawn Nelson’s on council doing their bidding.

    Again, how about being pro-something because it’s the right thing, instead of transient beliefs for whatever is convenient at the time…

    …kind of like lamenting and criticizing the “public trough feeders” that are Quirk, Keller, and Bankhead (according to the F-site) but supporting a perennial “public trough feeder” in Chris Norby.

    Politics of convenience…

    1. If the free marketplace of ideas really worked would senile idiots like Bankhead and Jones keep getting re-elected?

      1) the people of Fulerton must be really god damned stupid, or:

      2) there is an undeniable power of incumbency in terms of fundraising and endorsements that precludes better qualified candidates from winning, or even trying to run for office.

      Of course you liberals like it that way, especially when you’ve got puppets like the afore mentioned dimwits casting votes the way you like it!

  7. I think most will agree that it’s hard to find good candidates.

    I have never inquired as to how much we pay our council members, maybe its time I do. Correct me if I’m wrong, but they are part-time. So, what is the incentive for our council members to hang around? I get it that Bankhead and Jones are retired, but why the others? What is the driving force?

  8. They are part time, and don’t make money to speak of. If I had to guess WHY they do it? The cynical side is Ego, Power, Influence, Self-Interest, Stepping Stones to Higher Office (for the same reasons); the more benign side would be Service, Community, Making a Difference. The point for the retired members could be plain boredom.

    Why each individual does it? I guess you’d have to ask them, but how many would tell the truth? Not many, I’d guess…

    Just my thoughts on it…

    1. Well your thoughts are uninformed. The council gets about eight hundred bucks a month – over ten Gs a year – and they also qualify for health benefits, and they get other benefits plus stipends for the other boards they sit on.

      Your buddies Bankhead and Jones were not willing to give that up when Shawn proposed their doing so. Ego? You betcha. Making a difference? Yeah, right, only if that difference is to keep feeding the insatiable hunger of the public employee unions.

      We know why you people dislike Nelson so much. For the same reason I like him. He rerpesents us – not the municipal employee unions and their eve escalating demands.

  9. Ok, first of all…nothing I’ve said implies that Bankhead and/or Jones are my “buddies”…

    …and I should have said “much” money, not just money.

    …and Nelson stands up for who, exactly? His own ambitions? His own business interests? Why is a personally ambitious lawyer who wanted to be a judge (“public trough feeder”…but it didn’t work out) and now suddenly an OC Supervisor (will he turn down the substantial salary from OC?) make him trustworthy.

    Are the public employee unions some holy entity? No. But neither is Nelson, not by a long shot.

    1. Nelson blew the whistle on the proposed pension spike while the rest were going along for the ride.
      He didn’t have to do that but knew we were about to get screwed.

      Also please help me out with references on this site to “trough feeders.” I’m having trouble finding them.

      Certainly nobody on this blog has ever referred to teachers in this manner. Norby has only been a full-time govt employee for 7 years. When he tried his lame County Clerk gig we reamed him for it, but good.

      Anyway, be sure to keep coming back to our horrible site.

      1. Partisan? Yes. Opinionated? Yes. Provocative? Yes. Agenda driven? Yes. Calling the opposition out? Yes. Honorable??? No. That’s like calling Nelson a hero…really should get a better thesaurus.

        Look, it’s your site, keep doing whatever you want. However, if you want credibility as a site that truly cares about the community, you’ll call out Nelson on his bonehead ideas. You’ll call out Sean Francis on his shenanigans. You’ll call out everyone..and not just those you don’t like.

        Otherwise it’s just a partisan train wreck site, like all the other partisan train wreck sites (liberal or conservative). That’s fine in and of itself. Bravo. But honorable?? I would say, no. But hey, I’m just a guy…in Fullerton.

        1. The real “justaguy” here… I’ve seen Nelson called out on this site for giving away a public sidewalk and for ignoring a water tax hike. As far as I can tell, he doesn’t get a free pass. Is there a specific issue that you’d like to discuss? “Bonehead ideas” is pretty vauge.

  10. JustAGuyInFullerton you are missing the point. This website only supports candidates such as Nelson and Norby because of their friendships and what they believe they can do for them. All other candidates are corrupt or not qualified. You need to go along with F-site’s program…….. they wouldn’t lie. I would love to see a completely new make up of council headed up by Ralph Baker.

    1. Gilligan, you shouldn’t be let out without a note from the Professor. Please share with us just one example of a personal favor Norby or Nelson has EVER done for FFFF or its bloggers; or ever will do!

      We support these (far from perect individuals) because are the best choice as representatives of everybody – not just employee unions or downtown bar owners.

      1. Harpoon correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Nelson have some personal or business connection with at least downtown bar?

        This is my opinion and I don’t think it’s okay for me to support these far from perfect individuals because you and this site believes they are the best choice of representatives of everyone. I will make up my own mind what I think is the best and when it’s all said and read I may agree that they are the best choices. I believe both your heros have flaws that this site tends to ignore but are quick to point out all other candidate’s flaws which makes me think that there is a personal friendship involved.

        Tell me that there isn’t a personal friendship with the operaters of this site and the the two Ns.

        1. Gilligan you made a specific charge that we support these guys because there is something in it for us, personally. I challenge you to back that up that accusation. And that has nothing to do with friendship.

          The flaws of Nelson pale in comparison to the hopeless incompetence and imbicility of Jones, Bankhead et al.; similarly Norby’s faults disappear along side Ackerwoman whose entire campaign is based on lies and fraudulence.

          Of course you are free to support anybody you choose, even to spite other candidates. Good luck with that strategy.

  11. Justaguy: It is my understanding Nelson hoped to end his legal career as a judge. Last I checked the guy is in his early 40’s. I think you can assume he still wants to serve as a judge Supervisor or not a decade or so from now.

    As far as public trough feeders go, conider this: If one takes a PAY CUT to serve that is not trough feeding. If Nelson were to get elected to the BOS it would come at a sacrafice to his pocket book not a gain. Something rare in politics these days.

  12. Gilligan,
    There are some very qualified people out there. Unfortunately, they are smart enough to avoid public scrutiny from commentators here and other blogs.

    The ones who are willing to stick there neck on the line for an elected city office have flaws like all of us yet are willing to work for $10k per year (as reported above) and maybe a small stipend from a few appointments to various commissions. That’s a tall order for anyone.

    When it comes to politics, it is much easier to point out the obvious flaws of a candidate rather than point out the numerous good deeds of their opponent.

    Also, and someone correct me if I’m wrong, but from a legal aspect, isn’t it less risky to attack a candidate rather than support one due to election laws and donations to organizations who support a sing candidate?? At least it seams to be that way. Ackerman’s supporters are consistent with their attacks on Norby but not so much their support of Ackerman. Norby’s attacks on Ackerman were mailed from Norby.

    Politics is a strange business and campaigns even stranger!

  13. Shadow it has everything to do with friendships and most people reading this website aren’t fooled. I remember your post about male council members taking photographs with Miss Fullerton contestants (innocent photos) that you wrote was sexiest and appalling but your own male council member did the exact same thing in a past competition (photos on their website) but of course that was not mentioned.

    You know there are things to write about the other N so everyone can be well informed but I doubt that will happen. I would be interested in his homeless research and AAA rating of motels.

    All of us have flaws but it does this website no good to only report the enemies flaws and not you own candidate’s. This is why I think that friendships play a role in what is being reported on this website.

    Thanks for allowing me to support anyone I choose but it will be my decision and not yours.

    I find the website interesting but not credible

    1. What kind of an idiot would report their candidate’s flaws during an election? Really, Gilligan that’s just about the dumbest thing you have said yet.

      If you don’t find us “cedible” go read the Observer or Barbara Giasone instead.

  14. Gilligan: Your point about the Miss Fullerton is a good one but it makes the Blogger’s point not yours.

    I went to the Miss Fullerton site and did notice something different about the photos Nelson took with the contestants. Other than the photo of the girls standing behind the entire council which is taken every year, there are no photos of Nelson with one exception that I was able to find and it proves the point.

    Look at the gallery from the 2007 Donate Life relay. There is Nelson smiling between two of the candidates and his hands are TO HIS SIDE rather than groping the girls like EVERY photo of the other male council members. Standing politely to take a photo op is not the same as pulling some young gal next to you and pressing up against them.

    The whole thing is creepy if you ask me and it appears Nelson is the only one (WIlson included) that kept his meat hooks off the young talent.

  15. Kindof A Party Hack :The whole thing is creepy if you ask me and it appears Nelson is the only one (WIlson included) that kept his meat hooks off the young talent.

    I bet the farm that would not have been the case with Wilson had it been a Mr. Fullerton contest.

  16. Take a look at the 4th of July celebration for 2007 he is doing exactly what the others did. Side note is that Mike Duvall is also photographed doing the same. I believe all these photographs are innocent but the way it’s reported here is extremely negative towards anyone not what they would call a friend.

    1. Innocent? It’s sexist, stupid and brain dead. Why do girls have to let anybody touch them just to get some piddling “scholarship.”

      Gilligan you really are a fool. Would you let your daughter pose for pictures like that if she weren’t a “Miss Fullerton?” Of course you wouldn’t. So what’s the difference? Oh yeah, Miss Fullerton gets paid (a scholarship) to do it. A professional. Real nice, huh?

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