183 thoughts on “Fall Into The Gap

      1. #4…. DITTO!!! Slap a feedbag on that ol nag!!!! And, HOPEFULLY bye bye Danny Boy!!!! WHITAKER AND TRAVIS, ARE WHO WE NEED!!!! Get rid of all the lying, cheating crap, that has been in Fullerton way too long!! SOME OF THE CRAP, are already gone, such as MC CRAP MCKINLEY, MCCRAP JONES, MCCRAP BANKHEAD, AND……. SO FAR, THE THREE MURDERS…RAMOS, SISSYNELLIE, AND WOLFE!!! NOW, THE OTHER 3 NEED TO GO TO, AND THE WATCH COMMANDER. HE, OR SHE, DID EXACTLY THAT….WATCHED…AS THE 6, TOOK KELLY`S LIFE,….AND FOR NO DAMN REASON!!! MAY THEY ALL ROT IN HELL!!!!!!

    1. You’re a much cooler guy Shawn when you’re not hammering on politics. Relax. Go buy yourself a brick of cheese and root for the Packers. Aaron Rodgers would approve.

    2. 1 vote makes or breaks an election. Who occupies this seat has far more consequences than Sharon’s drafting Sanchez. The assembly has become a completely asphyxiating dog pile maneuver on the taxpayers and California’s economy. Fullerton however has hope. It is not too late at the local level to square things. The unions can’t buy Fullerton anymore because now there is a higher bidder and its name is called a well informed substantial segment of the electorate that will only get bigger with time.

  1. If sadly flory gets a few more votes than Travis Kiger, Travis, FFFF and the good people of Fullerton will still exist to rip apart Flory’s lies, hypocrisies, immorality. Actually, it may make good sport for Flory’s rump once again become a public servant to Fullerton’s community

  2. The question is who will give a whoot about local goverment.
    The Supper DEMS now have their 2/3 vote. California is the great nanny State. Watch as Prop 13 gets voted out. Then and only then will the old farts take notice. I am included in that old fart, Prop 13, peep…..We who have owned homes and are Prop 13 peeps will be bent over the table…

    1. First, the legislature can’t overturn an initiative, only another initiative can.

      Second, everyone who owns a home benefits from Prop. 13, not just old timers, because of the cap on yearly increases.

      Third, aren’t you supposed to be packing?

    1. John Murry, forcing civility down your motherffffing throat . A united of Hackery.

      He does not have much of an audiance. None of his posts have mores than a comment in return.

  3. You all realize, of course, that no matter who wins between Kyger and Flory, a “majority” of 11% or 12% can hardly be considered a mandate or a victory.

    My opinion is that the anti-Kyger camp was diluted by the sheer number of challengers….people didn’t know who they wanted to vote for, but they knew they didn’t want to vote for Kyger.

    I’ve already received a call soliciting funds for a recall of Kyger. Kyger would never succeed in a recall facing a single candidate, especially Flory (don’t read that as me supporting her, either).

    I fear this will start a long-term cycle of election/recall/election/recall/etc. that does not serve any purpose in moving the city forward and solving its problems.

    I would prefer to see Kyger and Whytaker make some sort of conciliatory move instead of being the perpetual fly in the ointment for any progress in this town so that we can get past all this BS.

    Time to recognize what the majority (and by majority, I don’t mean 11.7%) of residents want in this town and to vote accordingly. You don’t represent yourself. You represent all residents in the city.

    1. Conciliatory?

      How about some conciliatory behavior from the cops like Bair and Showne and the fat pigs Coffman and Kirk? How about some real concern for the taxpayers and citizens of Fullerton?

      Hold your breath?

      Didn’t think so.

    2. “I fear this will start a long-term cycle of election/recall/election/recall/etc. that does not serve any purpose in moving the city forward and solving its problems.”

      Bullshit. You fear accountability, reform and civilian oversight of the FPD.

      That is all.

    3. I am not sure of what conciliatory move you would like Whitaker and Kiger (assuming he prevails) to make?

      I would personally like acting Chief Hughes to make the first move and step down from his current position and go back to Captain or whatever rank he was. I think that would be the correct move considering his permanent appointment to chief would do more to divide our City of Fullerton than unite it.

      If Kiger does prevail and he, Whitaker and Sebourn do decide to use their majority to recruit an outside person to take over the position of chief, that decision should be respected by the FPD union and they should move on.

      Lastly, if they do decide to use their power at a later date to actually obtain and accept a bid from the OC Sheriffs Department, which ultimately gives the taxpayers of Fullerton financial relief, that decision should be respected as well.

      The city council was duly elected by the citizens of Fullerton who knew their positions and their decisions should be accepted by all. If not, vote them out the next election.

      But if you or anyone else would like to start another recall, that is within the boundaries of our system of laws.

      Democracy has a funny way of working in situations like this.

      1. Why would Danny do that? Then while they search another employee would have to be acting Chief. He knows he will be there until he retires as either Chief or Captain or goes Sheriff. No stress. He plays boss until they make the decision. He could care less what they decide. Politics is politics.

        1. Wrong again, flatfoot. We’re stuck with Danny for awhile. But his reputation hangs on the question of the Culture of Corruption. He denies it. We deny him.

          1. How am I wrong? What you said is the same is what I said. He’s not going anywhere. Either Chief, Captain, LT with OC Sheriffs, or Chief at another PD. simple.

    4. Finally! A Fullerton police officer making sense with regards to moving forward in the city he serves and recognizing a recall effort would be sour grapes at this point. But the diluted numbers being based on numerous challengers: you could say the same thing for those that are pro-Republicans who would have otherwise voted Travis.

    5. CCCB: Funny how you don’t live in the city, but receive phone calls regarding a recall. You’re nothing but a FPOA liar.

      1. I live in the city, own a home in the city, and own a business in the city. I just don’t work for FPD.

        Sorry that you can’t read and digest my posts properly.

    1. On the subject of what the voters did, its not 11.7%, it is a complete landslide against the old brutal money pocketing fooools. Or of the status then, BABBBEEEYY!

      1. And June wasnt an ordinary primary election in Fullerton.

        JAN M. FLORY 11,596 11.6%
        RICK ALVAREZ 10,095 10.1%
        KITTY JARAMILLO 6,728 6.7%
        DON BANKHEAD 6,621 6.6%

  4. “Time to recognize what the majority (and by majority, I don’t mean 11.7%) of residents want in this town and to vote accordingly.”

    Well 11.7% may not be much, but it’s still more than Flory, Bankhead and the other cop ball lickers garnished. Do you really think you are fit to speak for what the citizens of Fullerton, or any city for that matter, want CCCB? I think the majority of us want a police force that protect and serve, not murder, rape, destroy evidence, steal, cover-up, and attempt to brow-beat citizens. If you can’t get on board with what Kiger, Whitaker (there’s no “Y” in either name BTW), and the majority of citizens want, it may be time to look for a new job or relocate. I seriously doubt it’s going to be business as usual at the FPD with all of the house cleaning that has and is going to happen.

    1. The “y” is there to evade one’s comment being automatically put in moderation for mentioning certain last names. It’s also why some people write Tony’s last name as “Booshala.”

        1. “greg go away FOR REAL, PLEASE”………. Hmmmmm

          Based on his ethnicity the only way Golem will go away is with a bribery.

          Therefore, I am pledging $1.00 to be credited to Golem on his departure.

          Join me!

        2. I’m sorry, did you think that when I commented to clarify the reason behind some creative misspellings on this blog, I was actually interested in being abused by some cowardly and buffoonish ass-pimple? I wasn’t. Happy to clarify for you.

          1. “I was actually interested in being abused by some cowardly and buffoonish ass-pimple? I wasn’t.”……… Hmmmmmm

            To stop being abused, how much is your golden parachute worth, Golem?

  5. Lets give credit where credit is deserved, TB. I’ve waited since Tuesday for an article declaring victory, which I would of done. What you’ve witnessed is the true American dream and that is, one man, regardless of resources stand up for what he believes in and make a difference in HIS/OUR community. All the FPOA had to do is have a somewhat likable figure regardless of rank address the city with sincerity and remorse. Someone to say no one is proud of the the actions of July 5th but at the same time say these 6 are like brothers we love. Someone to say a 32 minute video shouldn’t tell the life story of the 6 but at the same time the 6 would have to be responsible for their actions. But none of this happen and for that reason the community has spoken and u must, with your tail between your legs, prove to the community you serve otherwise or you will be replaced like Acting Chief Hughes…. The choice is yours, the decision will be ours!

  6. @ Greg Diamond: Oic. The only time I’ve been moderated is for spelling out Bu$hala.

    @ Credit: Very good message. If anyone from the FPD/FPOA indicated that they gave a rat’s ass about a mentally ill homeless man being taunted, humiliated, intimidated, beaten, shocked, and asphyxiated, the public may have a little more respect for them. But I guess to some people it is more important to blindly support your brethren then to take a moral stand for what’s right. It’s the same type of mob mentality we see during wartime when atrocities are overlooked because soldiers were “just following orders and doing their jobs.”

      1. It happens with a very long list of words and names. That’s why this blog slowed down so much. It’s dead quiet in here lately for that very reason.

  7. Just read this: “Kelly Thomas Had 92 Police Encounters Since 1990.” And yet Ramos and Wolfe acted like they didn’t know him? Wow, they must:
    a) be really stupid b) have amnesia c) be lying d) both a and c

    1. 92 contacts in the OC. The only people that knew him are the ones that had direct contact with him before. The call records would show who that was. Nothing else.

          1. “caused numerous calls by concerned citizens”

            How would the know that and say if they didn’t know him?

            Here’s your shovel back.

    2. You are the One that is stupid. They were all different contacts from different police departments. Why don’t you find out before you open your filthy mouth.

      1. Mickey,

        I’d suggest that you watch the city owned video again and listen to the part where Manny Ramos says to Kelly, “why do we have to keep dealing with you”?

        This portion of the audio will more than likely be replayed over and over again in court to establish contempt towards Kelly Thomas.

        1. FL..Have you ever heard of leading the suspect? It happens all the time. Wake up. Cops do it all the time. Don’t assume, cause that is all you do.

          1. Mick,

            I know all about “leading the suspect”.

            Officer to Motorist: “Do you know why I pulled you over today?”

            Motorist to Officer: “Was it the red light I just ran or was it the pedestrian I just mowed down in the crosswalk?”

            This is why one should always keep their mouthes shut when talking to a police officer and invoke our constitutional right to remain silent.

            How does that Miranda thing go again Mick?

            Any thing you say can and WILL be used against you.

            Not maybe not might be…WILL be used against you in a court of law.

            1. Right to remain silent is the most important defense a person has. First thing a lawyer will tell you is to SHUT UP! Name, Rank and Serial Number is the Army way of saying the same thing.

      2. If you really think even one cop had any idea that Kelly was schizo you are showing how dumb you really are. Cops know homeless transients as what they are. Homeless transients. Most are drug addicts and alcoholics. They go to jail every other day.

  8. Assemblywoman Quirk-Silva (D) and her well earned victory over Norby (R, incumbent) isn’t the topic of this thread, or any other on FFF.

    Kiger (R and TP) and his slim lead over Flory (D) is the topic here.

    My point is what’s obvious. 133 votes doesn’t constitute a landslide or a mandate. No reason to crow.

    1. Still shocked at the crazy cycle of Squirk Silva. If she doesn’t mention socks, her political career is over. Booooshalaaaaa fell for that curveball and she hit a homerun out of the park and now moving on to big time politics. So lucky. booooshalaaa has to shake his head everyday.

    2. It wasn’t just Flory, Alvarez & Bankhead who Kiger beat, meathead. He beat the entire police & fire union. He beat the odds and anyone with a half a brain knows that. When was the last time anyone went up against an army of unions and their money and came out victorious?

      Shawn Nelson did when he beat Harry Sidhu for OC Supervisor. But, everyone knew Sidhu perjured himself and didn’t live in the 4th so that election didn’t really count.

      How much money did the unions throughout the state contribute to Quirk-Silva’s campaign meathead?

      1. True. Now lets see how Kiger performs and what he’s able to pull off.

        Thousands meathead. Just like every other union backed candidate. You have to spend to win. Just ask Obama. Spending is fair game. Norby is worthless if he can’t beat someone like Squirk Silva.

  9. Of the 92 contacts with KT,how many were with the FPD?
    IMO the FPD contacts were escalated until KT was killed and this is a documented record of abuse of position and perhaps a degree of retribution by the FPD and individual cops.
    ALL FPD personnel who participated in this and previous contacts with KT have nothing to be proud of and those that stood aside and were aware of such previous conduct are included.

  10. Just like the Costa Mesa guy. He fought the unions and lost. Now he’s sitting in his seat looking like a meathead. He won’t last long now.

  11. “He beat the odds and anyone with a half a brain knows that.” A conservative Republican (Kiger) who leads by a nose in a conservative city is beating the odds? Ha-ha!

    (Curious, I won’t resort to name-calling, the trademark tactic of FFF. It’s a form of ad hominem attack, the lowest debate strategy used most often on the school playground by unintelligent but big 12 year old boys.)

              1. Watch it again. You forgot. It’s been awhile. Mam will get the standard $200k settlement. Turn up the audio next time you watch it.

    1. http://www.scpr.org/blogs/news/2012/11/09/11019/study-hiring-more-police-cuts-violent-crime/

      Too many hidden variables in such study to simply take their word for the “result”

      Consider this example:

      Studies show that the more fireman that respond to a fire the more property damage done.

      Thus, a liberal would conclude that firemen cause property damage.

      A libertarian would say: “Wait a minute; that result seems fishy. How big were the fires?”

      And indeed, the size of the fire is the hidden variable.

      The bigger the fire the more property damage done and the more firemen needed to fight the fire.

      So this study about more cops saving money is fishy (especially at union rates). There are just too many possible hidden variables.

      In any event, I would pay 60 cents on a dollar to for each FPD officer eliminated.

      1. It doesn’t matter “what they get.” The people have asserted their power over LE and all agencies have noticed.

        How does it feel to be put back in your place, Fred? I’m sure it’s a bit uncomfortable, but now you know that us citizens run this community, not FPD.

        Welcome to the USA! Now polish your boots…

  12. Limousine liberals, Repuglicans, Glad handers, Pensioneers, and general Do nothings: By now, you all must be twisting and turning knowing that the Fullerton’s future is heading down a path putting the citizens back in control of our destiny. The years of city staff telling us what’s best for us are over.

    JAN FLORY’S NOMINATORS:
    Marianna “Molly” McClanahan
    Jeanie & Dean Stockwell
    James “Jim” Lace
    Jean & Bill Klinghoffer
    Jack & Janice Wolfe
    Carolyn Glazener
    Frankie Smith
    Larry & Ellen Ballard
    Karen Dudley
    Collin & Carol Chan
    Mark & Pat Graham
    Shirley Wooldridge
    Beverly & Brydon Shirk
    Karen Buckingham
    John Stryker
    Shraon Quirk-Silva
    Pam Keller
    Ismael Vargas
    Tom & Kathleen “Katie” Dalton
    Jack & Marcia Young

    JAN FLORY’S ENDORSERS:
    Neighbors United for Fullerton (N.U.F.F.)
    Fullerton Police Officers Association
    Fullerton Firefighters Association
    The Fullerton Observer
    Peter Anderson
    Alice Arana
    Allan Axelrad
    Jim & Helen Bailey
    Bob & Jan Ballard
    Larry & Ellen Ballard
    David Barone
    Robert Bean
    Hal & Mary Beddows
    Franki Berry
    Hugh Berry
    Gaye Besler
    James Blake
    Esther Borah
    Virginia Britt
    Monika Broome
    Dr. Versie Burns
    Bert Buzan
    Ann Carnahan
    Alta Carter
    Florence Cavileer
    Gary & Lynn Chalupsky
    Bernett P. Cohen
    Barbara & John Craddock
    Rick Crane
    Mary Dalessi
    Mary Deming
    Rick & Lisa Doebler
    Loren & Margaret Dupuy
    Alice Dyer
    Maureen Flynn-Becerra
    Richard & Cynthia Foster
    Karen Freeman
    Richard & Marcy Fry
    Marjorie Fuller
    Garrett & “Kiwi” Hartnett
    Kathleen Heath
    William Hinz
    Judy Hirou
    Richard Hopping
    Harold Horn
    Barbara Jennings
    Ron & Leora Jones
    Shirley Jordan
    Vi Johnson
    Maynard Kamback
    Raymond Kawase
    Barbara Keller
    Pam & John Keller
    William Kincaid
    Roy & Irene Kobayashi
    Elisabeth & Leon Leyson
    Bob Linnell
    Nick & Kristin Lopez
    Ralph & Jinny Lyng
    Joyce MacKain
    Lesley Mahaffey
    Fred & Joyce Mason
    John Mathews
    Dale & Donna Maurer
    Martha McCarthy
    Tom Meyer
    Arnold Miller
    Jim Miller
    Susan Modesitt
    Dick & Mary Moore
    Andrew & Carol Morrison
    David Musante & Janet McNeill
    Diane Nielen
    Ann Pease
    Mary Perkins
    Mary Presutti
    Elaine Redfield
    Robert Riley
    Rick Ritter
    Miyoko Sakai
    Dave & Vicki Schindele
    Karl & Gloria Schlaepfer
    Suzanne Serbin
    Ingrid Shutkin
    John Silber
    Susan & J. Bryne Simpson
    Irene & Blake Smith
    Jeanie & Dean Stockwell
    Mike & Hilda Sugarman
    Anthony & Judi Trasport
    Lorraine Turissini & Tony Andrade
    Dennis Ulrich
    Anita Varela
    Carol Wilcox
    Jim & Sally Williams
    Doris Winters
    John & Janice Wolfe
    Edward York
    Jerry Young

    1. That’s quite a spectacle. Too bad winning requires more than a long list of friends, dependents, government suck-ups and hanger-oners.

  13. Jan Flory’s list is much longer than Kiger’s. And much more impressive!

    Travis Kiger Endorsements :

    US Congressman Ed Royce
    State Assemblyman Chris Norby
    Orange County Supervisor Shawn Nelson
    Fullerton Mayor Pro-Tem Bruce Whitaker
    Fullerton School Board Member Chris Thompson
    Republican Party of Orange County
    The Orange County Register
    The Lincoln Club of Orange County
    California Republican Assembly
    Fullerton Association of Concerned Taxpayers
    Greg Sebourn, Fullerton City Council
    Chad Wanke, Placentia City Council
    Denis Bilodeau, Orange Mayor Pro-Tem
    Mark McCurdy, Fountain Valley Mayor Pro-Tem
    Jack Dean, Publisher, Editor of PensionTsunami.com

        1. After reading your post about Norby. You were so wanted him to be an abuser. The truth is you are the abuser. You were pointing fingers at him, only because you know the truth about yourself. You know you are a women beater….YOU ARE GUILTY and you know it……SLIME BALL…..It is clear that you need people to think you are superior , and if they don’t, you beat them into submission. Look in the mirror, and you will see a true monster.
          Go ahead and ask me how I know….

          1. I expect that we’ll all agree about the relevant facts within a year and probably much sooner.

            I don’t really want to know why you think you know.

    1. This assinine post can be found on the FFFF Facebook page and was posted by Shawn Quirk.

      I wonder how and if he celebrates Veteran’s Day?

      Why has FFF always been silent about a group of public employees who thrive off of taxpayer dollars–our military.

      An average Army MP (with salary, housing allowance, and free medical insurance) makes more per year than a Fullerton police officer.

      Military brass can retire at age 40 with a full pension and then draw huge salaries by working for private defense companies who have lucrative contracts with the Pentagon.

      Also, shouldn’t American oil corporations in the Middle East just hire their own mercenary army to serve as their security force?

      Isn’t our military there nothing more than tax-payer funded muscle for a private enterprise that already gets government subsidies?

      1. I challenge your statement that the “AVERAGE” Army MP makes more per year than a Fullerton Police Officer. I want to know where you obtain your figures for both the average Fullerton Police officer and the average Army MP. That information is certainly not available but I know the average for the Army is far less than the average for FPD. Another example of just plain BS. I also submit that certain MP roles overseas in combat regions where they receive extra combat pay are far more dangerous than the FPD role in Fullerton.
        I generally think highly of Fullerton Lover posts, but this one was written like Andy Goodlie tales of officers broken bones caused by Kelly Thomas.

        1. TAKEN FROM US ARMY WEBSITE. THEY ENTICE YOUNG MEN TO JOIN BY POINTING OUT MILITARY MPs DO BETTER THAN CIVILIAN POLICE:

          “Are you stuck in a job going nowhere? If you want to make a significant change in your life, think about joining the Army! If this sounds interesting, you will first have to meet these basic eligibility requirements:

          Be a U.S. citizen.
          Be between the ages of 17 and 34.
          Not have more than two dependents.
          Pass the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery test with a minimum AFQT score of 31.

          If you can meet the above qualifications, you have a good start at being able to join.

          There are many benefits to joining the Army. Some are tangible, others are not. One tangible benefit that is frequently asked about is pay. To better explain pay, let me show you a civilian and enlisted Army job comparison for law enforcement job.

          Note that the Military Police (MP) Sergeant’s pay is based on an E-5 with 4 years of service and a family of four.
          Pay benefits for a Civilian Patrol Officer

          Salary: $49,953
          Housing: $0
          Food allowance: $0
          Special pay: $0
          Tax advantage: $0
          Health care: $13,368

          Net income $36,585

          Pay benefits for a Military Police Sergeant

          Salary $29,380
          Housing $16,164
          Food allowance $3,900
          Special pay $1,800
          Tax advantage: $2,716
          Health care: $0 (Family coverage at no cost)

          Net income $53,960

          While the base salary of the MP in our comparison is significantly less than that of a civilian policeman, it is easy to see how all the other extra pay benefits — most of which are tax-free — add up. In the end, the MP is making $17,375 per year more in net income. That means more discretionary income for the family to have a higher quality of life.

          Granted, you won’t make that amount right out of Basic Training and Advanced Individual Training, but if you are a sharp, smart soldier, it doesn’t take long to advance through the ranks. If you already have a law enforcement college degree, you could enlist as a Specialist.

          If you are thinking about joining the Army, and in particular for law enforcement, talk to a recruiter soon. The Air Force and Navy are starting to downsize, so airmen and sailor Base Police could be transferring to the Army to join as MPs under the Operation Blue to Green. This means the number of open MP positions could decline. Act now – join today and secure your future!”

        2. Tuco,

          I was relating the assinine statement that Shawn Quirk had written about veterans.

          FYI…

          After 20 years of honorable service you are only entitled to 50% of your basic pay.

    2. Ed Royce, Chris Thompson, and Bruce Whitaker won. And by the way, last time I checked, the fullerton observer wasn’t doing that great.:)

    1. What does my marital status have to do with anything?

      Can you answer one, just one, of my questions? And directly and civilly.

      That is, with logical and support rather than name-calling, inuendo, and evasion.

  14. #82 “Fullerton’s future is heading down a path putting the citizens back in control of our destiny.”

    What citizens?

    There are only six Fullerton citizens on Kiger’s website “list” and they are all public employees!

    1. Endorsements don’t mean squat. You know that.

      Shouldn’t you be grading some ENGL 59 or ENGL 100 papers right about now?

  15. Yes, I agree that Kiger’s endorsements by Royce, Norby, Nelson, Whitaker, Thompson, and Seaborn don’t mean squat. Those folks are all McPension taking, insurance benefits taking, and bloated salary taking government employees.

    1. You work for the government too, Shawn, some years working only 8 months per year when you don’t teach summer school.

      Add your own name to that list.

  16. Your point is moot. I’m not holding public office while campaigning on a “reformist” platform which blames public employee expenditures for budget woes. That would be the 6 Republican politicians who endorse Kiger and Whitaker.

    1. Word has it that Shawn used to be a registered Republican. Heh.

      If you don’t want to add your own name, add Sharon’s. You know, the school teacher who put her aspiring political career ahead of her students and became a part-time teacher for the FSD. The substitute teachers filling in for her didn’t come free.

                1. “Why do actual work when under Obama we can all make more by not working and making others pay for us?”…………. Hmmmmmmm

                  Now you learning!

                  Sine up for my seminars.
                  http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2012/fullerton-vote-kiger-and-whitaker/#comment-137762

                  In socialism life is easy, the government pretends that it pays you and you pretend that you work.

                  Back in the Old Communist Czechoslovakia I had unlimited 2 weeks sick leave every time I could fake a temperature, while receiving 100% pay. As an air force officer I had 1 month of regular vacation and 1 month of mandatory group vacation consisting of the organized physical activities in the off season tourist resorts ans spas. Lot of fucking too!

                  Now you know from where the public unions got the idea. The already live the communism!

                  For example in 1967 I was 1 months out of 6 on the base doing my work.

                  So that is what will happen to you under Obama and the following socialistic presidents because this trend will last for about 20 years since it is generational change.

                  In 1948 Communist won election, 1968 Prague spring uprising, totally suppressed in 1970 and communism ending in 1990 followed by European socialism having major fiscal crises in 2010 which continue.

                  I do not know what this generation will come up with… back to future?

                  So you may ask: WTF Fiala was missing in your life over there?

                  Answer: Chewing Gum, Rock n’ Roll and Blue Jeans.

                  That is what ended the European communism.

                  Look at the China they are still happy and rich communists because they lifted ban on the above Western Luxurious commodity.

                  However, for this to happen the Obama must split the Dollar into domestic and foreign.

                  Don’t forget to sign up for my seminars I will teach you about the dual currency’s advantages and disadvantages.

                  Forget about investing into the Gold that is ploy.

                  Same as it was until Nixon the Gold will be confiscated and unlawful to own.

        1. “That’s Assemblywoman Sharon to you, punky.”……… Hmmmmmm

          That is Assemblywoman Elected Sharon you moron mongoloid.

          However, do me a favor and ask her if she wants to have an affair so she can resign like Petraeus.

      1. Can you answer my simple questions, runningair?

        Why the evasion tactic–suggesting I add my name to Flory’s list?

        And the lame, sidetracking about a teacher leaving a profession for a different career? Teacher Chris Norby did the same. It’s called “moving up the ladder of success.” Very American. Very Orange County. Very Fullerton.

        1. Update, you seem to know what’s going on, so answer me this-yesterday the number of votes left to be counted for Fullerton was 5,566. Today the updated number was 5,613. What happened?

  17. PRIMARY ELECTION, ANYONE?

    Would Kiger/Flory be locking horns now if the bottom six candidates had already been eliminated in June?

    With 12 candidates running for 3 seats, it would be much more democratic to enact a primary election to narrow the field. There are a number of reform candidates in the race which possibly split the vote and hurt Kiger. Entrenched candidates like Flory ALWAYS win when multiple challengers exist. Primaries favor challengers.

    Primary elections might be a city initiative worth consideration in the future for FFFF fans.

    Additionally, primary elections greatly increase the percentage of votes for winners—the top candidate, Bruce Whitaker, only took 13.9% of the votes! Does anyone think 13.9% should elect a winner? I don’t.

    In fact, 60.7% of the votes went to the BOTTOM NINE LOSERS! Primary elections would vastly reverse this.

    Extending this further, by implementing a primary AND numbering council seats, only candidates having 50%+1 could win. Much more democratic than a 13% win. By numbering seats I do not mean instituting districts. Numbered seats simply means declaring the seat you are running for instead of combining all races into one. You can run against one particular “jerk” while not challenging someone you favor as well.

    Food for thought. FFFF may contact me if this is of interest. I have a primary election initiative already written for my city which I would happily share.

    1. Your math is a little busted up on this. Mr. Whitaker took 13.9 percent of the available votes, and with three votes per person (since you can’t vote for the same person twice) it equates to around 46% of the voters casting a vote for him. Not too shabby.

      I don’t think there was a whole lot of vote splitting going on. There were plenty of natural divisions on the slate (by major endorsement, Measure W, funding, etc.) The biggest thing a primary election contributes to a race is cost. Based on what I tracked for Fullerton’s election– the very last thing we need to introduce is more cost.

      What’s probably more interesting is the percentage of Fullerton voters returning a ballot with fewer than three votes cast. About 30,000 so far.

      If 30,000 people didn’t find one or more choices palatable, we need more choice, not less.

        1. Just wait, O’Malley. You’ll see. It will be safe to walk the streets of Fullerton without being accosted by Barry’s Boyz.

      1. I disagree.

        On vote splitting: It is fact that 30.9% of the vote in this election went to candidates that would not have been in the race if there were a primary (the bottom six candidates). That means 92.7% of voters had their vote split.

        On cost: It is true there is a cost for an election. However, Fullerton always has an election in June anyway. The additional cost is minor–pennies per voter. Democracy is worth a few pennies, no? Otherwise you are arguing for no election at all if cost becomes an overwhelming point.

        On ballots with less than three votes cast: A primary does not reduce choices. It increases choices. More people will run because they are not afraid of splitting a party vote. Fewer voters will “single shot” their ballots (vote for one candidate, which increases their voting power) because there is only one choice to be made in the general election (if seats are separated into separate races).

        In Summary: Primaries allow more candidates to run without fear of splitting the vote in the general election (the Ralph Nader effect). Primaries allow voters to narrow the field to their favorite candidates in June, then vote the remaining best choice in November. Primaries reduce enhance the ability of new challengers to take on incumbents. There is a small, real cost for democracy.

      2. Consider and analyze this:

        If Flory beats Kiger (or the converse) by 100 votes… consider the bottom six candidates and tell us if the result would have been different had these six not been on the ballot.

        A change in the outcome due to the effect of additional candidates is a good argument for primaries or IRV (instant run-off voting). Unless you’re happy with getting the electorate’s second choice instead of their otherwise first choice.

      3. Ryan, I am one of those who doesn’t cast all my available votes; I also wish there was a “none of the above” option, but that will never happen.

    2. “With 12 candidates running for 3 seats, it would be much more democratic to enact a primary election to narrow the field. There are a number of reform candidates in the race which possibly split the vote and hurt Kiger. Entrenched candidates like Flory ALWAYS win when multiple challengers exist. Primaries favor challengers.”

      Such is one good reason for having a “recall” process.

      If Flory wins, there needs to be a recall election.

      1. Recalls take nearly a year, gobs of money, volunteers and resources, and most often fail. Getting the election right in the first place is much smarter.

  18. Roughly 6 out of 10 voters did not vote for Whytaker.

    Roughly 7 out of 10 voters did not vote for Kyger (or Flory).

    Hardly a mandate for anybody.

    1. Computing….

      The four non-union candidates outpolled the four pro-union candidates by 32% or 12,000 votes.

      Change mandated.

  19. Stanley Fiala :
    “Why do actual work when under Obama we can all make more by not working and making others pay for us?”…………. Hmmmmmmm
    Now you learning!
    Sine up for my seminars.
    http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2012/fullerton-vote-kiger-and-whitaker/#comment-137762
    In socialism life is easy, the government pretends that it pays you and you pretend that you work.
    Back in the Old Communist Czechoslovakia I had unlimited 2 weeks sick leave every time I could fake a temperature, while receiving 100% pay. As an air force officer I had 1 month of regular vacation and 1 month of mandatory group vacation consisting of the organized physical activities in the off season tourist resorts ans spas. Lot of fucking too!
    Now you know from where the public unions got the idea. The already live the communism!
    For example in 1967 I was 1 months out of 6 on the base doing my work.
    So that is what will happen to you under Obama and the following socialistic presidents because this trend will last for about 20 years since it is generational change.
    In 1948 Communist won election, 1968 Prague spring uprising, totally suppressed in 1970 and communism ending in 1990 followed by European socialism having major fiscal crises in 2010 which continue.
    I do not know what this generation will come up with… back to future?
    So you may ask: WTF Fiala was missing in your life over there?
    Answer: Chewing Gum, Rock n’ Roll and Blue Jeans.
    That is what ended the European communism.
    Look at the China they are still happy and rich communists because they lifted ban on the above Western Luxurious commodity.
    However, for this to happen the Obama must split the Dollar into domestic and foreign.
    Don’t forget to sign up for my seminars I will teach you about the dual currency’s advantages and disadvantages.
    Forget about investing into the Gold that is ploy.
    Same as it was until Nixon the Gold will be confiscated and unlawful to own.

    what is sine?

    1. what is sine?

      Easy. Sine is the ratio of the length of the side of a right triangle which opposes angle α to the length of the hypotenuse. It is also the y-coordinate of a unit circle where θ is the angle in radians about the origin.

      But I think he means sign.

      1. Both are correct Kevin. Good IQ.

        You can see proper spelling in my subsequent offer.

        To be honest I personally do not see too much of difference between the “sine” and “sign”.

        It looks similar and when you talk to me you wouldn’t know which one I am using anyway. Sound same.

        What you are witnessing here is a change of cumbersome English spelling to be more phonetic aka modern English.

    2. “what is sine?”……….. Hmmmmm

      An opposite of the “insane” Onanimous.

      My question to you Onanimous: What do you do with a hamburger after a fly sits on it and you know that prior to that was she was siting on a shit.

      Do you thing that shit and hamburger are the same?…… or do you thing that fly is too stupid to know the difference and you do?

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