Who Is Tango Tom?

Not long ago I discovered this anonymous note on my vehicle:

Below is a retirement flyer of a recently retired FPD lieutenant  – some guy named Tom “Tango” Basham. Somebody thinks he’s  a “top cop.”

Was this the man who was on duty back at the station on July 5th 2011 and who remotely watched the murder of Kelly Thomas? Was he the guy who later let the perps watch the video and write, then re-write reports?

Has this retired cop now been hired back by Acting Chief Dan Hughes as a paid double-dipper? If so, what for, and for how much? In 2011 this valuable piece of manpower pulled in over $148,000, so his pension, of course, is already huge.

So many questions, so few coherent answers!

101 Replies to “Who Is Tango Tom?”

  1. Beady eyes? Check.

    Bald noggin? Check.

    There seem to be two shared physical traits on the FPD. Some come in normal size, but most are super-sized.

    If this is the creep, then he watched a murder and didn’t do anything about it – like immediately arrest the perps and put them in jail.

  2. Under CalPERS, a “paid reserve” officer (not necessarily a gentleman) after a CalPERS retirement has a limit of about 960 hours per year in that position.

    More questions arise from that if it is indeed accurate that he is a “paid reserve” officer after CalPERS retirement –

    Is his hourly pay (and that is usually how reserve officers are compensated) equal to the pay schedule for a reserve officer NOT on a CalPERS pension? Or,

    Is his hourly pay the hourly equivalent of his pre-retirement pay schedule?

    1. Jerry Brown is currently working on pension reform among the items on the table is a limitation on the double dipping and the best one….Prohibit payment of pensions to government workers who commit a felony related to their employment.

  3. Real-ly? Isn’t that special? We have a 7th murderous nazi who watched and did nothing.

    Why aren’t charges being brought on him?

    Is that possible especially as the supervisor “who gave everyone the thumbs up”?

    Why is Capt Transparent so murkey about this guy?

  4. I still want to know why Kelly Thomas disobeyed EIGHT lawful police orders. I would have lost it after about two! And he resisted all the way to the very end. Just shows the kind of ANIMALS our police have to deal with every day out on the streets — I couldn’t handle it, and neither could YOU!

    1. Hey everybody Look! “Lisa” is back! And asking the SAME questions that I respectfully answered on another blog. Imagine that!

    2. Someone with a traumatic brain injury might “lose it” very easily, quickly, and unpredictably. And when they “lose it” it can become very dangerous, possibly even resulting in someone being beaten to death. They would say things like “I couldn’t handle it” because they couldn’t. They might even lose it toward someone who, like Kelly Thomas, was obviously no threat. He was shirtless, obviously unarmed, and remained passive despite attempts by officers to escalate him. I do believe the officers “lost it” because they were mad they couldn’t get a rise out of Kelly to justify hitting him and possibly at least one of the officers “lost it” because he has TBI.

    3. Lisa/John Doe

      I still want to know what those EIGHT lawful police orders were-one by one-that Kelly supposedly disobeyed.

        1. No, you look it up and report back sonny, and anyone else who makes claims – The burden of proof is with the one making the claim.

          Just because some person (s) decided one day, that it was legal for a group of their tribal members to murder someone who doesn’t “obey” certain things they command, doesnt give them any excuses to get away with taking a human life or think, because, there is a witten, paper and the hoodlum(s) feel like they didnt do anything wrong, they won’t pay any consequences for their actions.

          So say what you want in defensive for those spoiled, insane, rat bastards-the fact is they took a human life because he didn’t stay still while he was being beaten and tortured.

          A document with some things written by a man/woman is not going to excuse that.

    4. Lisa,

      You’re assuming he disobeyed and resisted arrest. Many including the Orange County DA’s office don’t agree with you perspective of events as evidenced by:

      1) filing of criminal charges against Ramos and Cicinelli
      2) letters of disciplinary action sent out by FPD to the other officer involved

    5. If I had to listen to the babble of mean and stupid nonsense that came out of your mouth for more than about EIGHT seconds I’d lose it too. It almost makes me wish I was a uniformed goon so I could tase you into unconsciousness. Which is probably fairly similar to your waking state, just with less drool.

      1. See Lisa..They are used to attacking when they feel threatened. Give them a few minutes until they stop foaming at the mouth. Cause no one can have an opinion but scary them! (it)!

        1. > Cause no one can have an opinion but scary them! (it)!


          Jay Cincinelli I’m dying to know what your written reports looked like unedited.

            1. Anyone that would marry a psychopath who is a cop, and only has one eye, has gotta have a screw loose herself….
              And of course his sister…..

    6. We will never be able to ask Kelly Thomas anything because of the UNLAWFUL behavior of the officers who beat him to death. We know that these officers’ behaviors were deemed to be unlawful because two of them have been charged with egregious crimes and three of them are being fired. Furthermore, a police officer who “can’t handle it” should not be a police officer because they can become dangerous criminals as the officers who beat Kelly to death did.

  5. I want to know…is where is the rest of the video to show exactly which direction Kelly came from. I want to know..who made the call and what was the call?? These are the important questions. Did Kelly walk through the parking lot peering into cars? If so, the video would should that. Was he peering or was he jiggling door handles? Did he open a car door. I feel like the beginning of this madness has been overlooked. Did whoever call, make up a story?
    And Lisa, get over yourself. There was absolutely no reason for Wolfe to start swinging. It took the officers 16 mins from the point of contact to ask Kelly his name and look in his backpack. Ramos spent much of that time messing with Kelly and where is the argument of illegal detention? So get off your soap box and realize that there wasn’t much effort and apprehending. Kelly wasn’t a threat to where he had to lose his life.

    1. “I feel like the beginning of this madness has been overlooked.”

      It has been overlooked by the city council, the FPD and in Gennacco’s report, which I believe he said it was a legitimate call, but no details. The second part of the report (confidential) probably goes into more detail.

      All these questions still need to be answered. Everyone has been asking this question since last summer. I hope it all comes out in the trial.

    2. It is my opinion that, in the end, the beginning doesn’t really matter. Even if he had been jiggling one door in a parking lot, the police are still not allowed to bash your face in because of it.

      1. > No it took 18 minutes to try to get this skitzo his name.

        Jay Cincinelli you can barely speak English. Knowing that you were patrolling the street of Fullerton for over a decade absolutely frightens me.

      2. 18 minutes eliciting information from a “skitzo” (very very poor spelling indeed) is STILL not enough reason to “bash someone’s face to hell.” Besides, 2 minutes into the video Wolfe clearly says that he knows Kelly’s name as “Kelly Thomas.”

  6. If any of this is true Hughes needs to step down once confirmed.

    We need some follow up on these allegations.

  7. Isn’t the use of paid reserves still cheaper for the department than hiring a full-time replacement? My impression was that retired annuitants do not earn service credits toward their pensions, or vacation time, or any other benefits, just an hourly wage.

    What am I missing here?

    1. If this person is paid at the “usual” reserve officer rate (which is what you, or I, ordinary people who pass backgrounds, etc. without prior LEO experience – for example, “Shaq” – are paid) that’s one thing. I tried to find a “reserve police officer pay scale” for fullerton with no success.

      However, that pay scale is less than the equivalent hourly pay for a lieutenant (possibly as much as 50 to 60 percent less than lieutenant pay). SO, if Basham is a “reserve” is he on the “reserve” pay scale? Or is he essentially a “part-time lieutenant” (960 hours per year or less)?

  8. Contract labor is cheaper, they don’t have to pay for benefits. Many companies use contract labor. And it is better if they retired from the same company, because they already have experience, so there is no training, just bring them back on board.

  9. I still want to know why all six have not been charged with:
    Obstruction of Justice … their written and rewritten falsified police reports were clearly done to cover up what they had done.
    …and charged as:
    Accomplices … All detracted from Kelly receiving medical attention once the paramedics arrived; delaying life saving efforts (regardless if anything could or could not be done at that point).

    1. If cops were prosecuted everytime they lied on official reports or perjured themselves I doubt they’d be able to put one shift together each day. HR would be like a revolving door. 4 or 5 classes of new cops per department year round just to stay even.

      1. Well, let’s try actually enforcing those laws and see what happens. Fullerton would make a nice pilot study.

      2. So that’s a valid reason not to, in your opinion? Perhaps if they were prosecuted everytime, after a while they’d get the idea they were no better, the double standard and omerta would end and the revolving door would slow down. I’d also suggest reducing the pay and benefits to a realistic level more in line with the rest of us, and also remove their qualified immunity so they personally can be sued every time the exceed their authority, and also put every cop who’s convicted of breaking the law in the general population, instead of protective custody. Most are honest trying to do a good job, if you took the steps above you’d weed out the bad guys and our police would be in good hands without them fearing for their lives for breaking omerta.

    2. JustUs, yes but how many of those are in connection with a death at the officers’ hands and where that death has officers charged with murder and manslaughter? This isn’t simply about falsifying their reports to prevent them being reprimanded or possibly sued, this is about 6 officers and their superior in collusion to cover up a wrongful death at their hands. That, without a doubt, is obstruction of justice.

      1. I’m on your side, SherBear. My remark just pointed out how common it is for cops to fudge their reports and lie on the stand. Many would say that they are just leveling the playing field since crooks don’t have to play by a set of rules. The difference being, of course, that cops are sworn under oath to obey the laws during the course of their duties. And we know about the slippery slope. If a cop is willing to break one law – why would he hesitate to break another and another and another and another?

    1. This is a predictable course when an organization is FUBAR. Typically when a breakdown finally occurs all four wheels come off in a fireball explosion.

      The issues with FPD have been brewing for awhile

  10. Charges :I want to know…is where is the rest of the video to show exactly which direction Kelly came from. I want to know..who made the call and what was the call?? These are the important questions. Did Kelly walk through the parking lot peering into cars? If so, the video would should that. Was he peering or was he jiggling door handles? Did he open a car door. I feel like the beginning of this madness has been overlooked. Did whoever call, make up a story?And Lisa, get over yourself. There was absolutely no reason for Wolfe to start swinging. It took the officers 16 mins from the point of contact to ask Kelly his name and look in his backpack. Ramos spent much of that time messing with Kelly and where is the argument of illegal detention? So get off your soap box and realize that there wasn’t much effort and apprehending. Kelly wasn’t a threat to where he had to lose his life.

    I think someone had made the effort to transcribe the video and a passage went to the effect ….”we’ve stopped you many times do you like it”…… Are we to believe that during the previous contacts, Kelly was allowed to go free, without the p.o.’s acertaining his name? Much speculation about the “call” on the night of july 5th that brought p.o. in contact with Kelly, is there a way to go back several weeks before that date and get information re; calls that apparently did not result in Kelly’s arrest and from where did they emenate?

  11. cg :time mechine….

    Damn! And me with just a plain old, ordinary, everyday time machine in my basement. Who knew I needed a time mechine too?!

  12. The huge saleries and pensions are whats corrupting the department. Pay raises will not make better police but pay cuts. It is a farce to think that more money buys more talent. To Protect and Serve. If this is your mentality as a cop you will work for the love of the job and not just because your being offered a bundle of money to do it. Even if your being paid a bundle you can still hate the job and go out on the streets and disrespect the citizens. McKinnley knew that the citizens where being disrespected. They all know but nobody has the guts to do anything that equals real changes.Rather,cowardly behavior hiding behind the purse strings of the police union is the standard fare.

  13. If you don’t like your job “GET OUT”. you were looking for a job when you found this one….Or does FPD think they are on easy street. Does the FPD know that no residents respect them….FPD has no ethics…. If you do, prove it.

  14. Lisa, where were you when all this was going down? Perhaps calling the cops to a bogus break in attemp?

    1. after reading the friendsforjay.org website, I have come to the conclusion that Lisa and Trina Cicinelli (Jay Cicinelli’s wife) are one and the same person.

      If you read the posts by Trina Cicinelli under updates & links, you will note that both display the same psychotic break with reality.

  15. Question conerning Mihael Hillman, has he ever been paid ANY money by the FPD or the City?
    If it comes out that there is a covert system of communications btwn the DTF bar owners and the FPD , those business licenses should be revoked.
    And another thing, how many of these FPD cops are in pay of these bar owners with a cover of being a bouncer?



    Pretty expensive looking office space the CofC has here.

  16. You guys are funny. Everything is a conspiracy in this crowd.

    No more double dipping in PERS. Beginning in 2012, a PERS retiree risks losing his entire pension if he double dips. These days, if a PERS PD is using reserves who already receive a retirement from PERS, those reserve positions are likely volunteer only. I’m talking about retirement benefits, not sure if disability benefits are the same.

    One of these days I’ll post my complete untarnished view from an officer’s perspective on all this, warts and all. Almost did it last night, started on it, but realized it was going to take way too long. Many of the posters here would be better served by taking a more balanced view of things instead of going into attack mode whenever anybody presents an opposing view. You are all your own worst enemy.

    There’s plenty of blame to go around, and other laws likely broken, but 2nd degree murder it isn’t.

    1. Cold Chillin’ Cop Balls :
      There’s plenty of blame to go around, and other laws likely broken, but 2nd degree murder it isn’t.

      Like the rest of us, you are entitled to your opinion. You should know the outcome will be based upon the jurors perception of events, not necessarily facts of law…..we all remember the OJ trial.

      The video with audio is damaging to Ramos and Cicinelli…they are in an uphill battle

    2. CCCB: You might consider sending the post that you’re working on to Admin with a request to post as its own topic entry. If as lengthy as you describe, it will probably have a lot of comments back and forth. Better to make it its own thread than to derail another. I didn’t get that was your intent but that is most likely what would happen. Just a suggestion…

  17. What about the mother fucker Joe the cleaner, he was at the PD at the time emptying trash cans. Now that makes eight.

  18. I heard that the “Stop Bushala fullerton is not for sale” signs are paid for by the Police Union. The police Union seems to be the one buying out fullerton and with our tax dollors to do it.

    1. Are you sure about our tax dollars? Unions are funded by dues paying members. We don’t have to like who or what they support but it is their money to do with as they wish, whether they are private or public employee unions. The problem arises when they start getting kickbacks or favors from public officials for contributions thrown their way.

      1. There are bigger problems than that. It is our money, since the dues come from their taxpayer-funded salaries. They use the money to write laws in their favor: laws which take away our rights and protect theirs to such an extent that they are almost immune to disciplinary action. And we have no right to access their records even though they routinely commit acts of violence. The problem arises when their union is allowed to politically lobby, or perhaps even exist in the first place.

        1. Wrong. We may pay the salaries but once they work for and earn those salaries, it’s their money. What they choose to do with it is up to them. They pay dues to have their union work for them, not for us. Even if some don’t pay dues, by law, the union is still required to represent them upon request.

          The concern isn’t on the union’s end, it’s on the end of who and what the union can buy. Instead of being angry at the union for campaign contributions and anti-recall support, find out why they contribute to such things and how they benefit in return. There is where you’ll realize the real problems that need to be addressed.

          1. What? We know why the unions contribute to political campaigns. So they can influence policymaking in their favor. That IS the real problem that needs to be addressed. And it starts with the existence of police unions, which we don’t need, and which should be done away with completely. Ditto for prison guard unions. Don’t try to make something simple complicated.

    2. Oh for Christ sake, you can bash unions or any other group who lobby for what they want all you want but it’s the politicians and agencies that give them special favors in return that are the problem and where corruption can be found. Tell you what, you go after the union. That and. 99 will get you a bag of chips. I’ll continue with action towards the recall and removing the ones who work for their special interest contributers instead of us.

      1. I guess the part that I don’t understand about the police unions is that to my understanding most if not all employee unions are non-profits and exempt from paying taxes.

        Why is it that a church like First Southern Baptist of Buena Park where Wiley Drake preaches, can be cited and harassed by the I.R.S. for supposedly just verbally advocating a political candidate that he feels morally aligned with in Mike Huckabee…

        Huckabee Endorsement Scandal, 2008

        In early 2008, Drake, the pastor for the First Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park, was a vocal supporter of former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee’s presidential campaign. He sent out a letter personally endorsing Huckabee. Because the letter was on church stationery, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) began investigating Drake for possibly endorsing a political candidate as a church leader; such electioneering by churches is forbidden as a condition for churches’ tax-exempt status.[7]

        Drake’s possible violation of federal tax law was reported to the IRS by an advocacy group called Americans United for Separation of Church and State (AU). Drake called on supporters use imprecatory prayer to pray for the punishment and even deaths of certain AU members, drawing controversy.[7]

        In May 2008, Drake announced that he had been cleared of any wrongdoing by the IRS

        ….and yet the employee unions like the Fullerton Municipal Employees Union, Fullerton Firefighters Union, Fullerton Police Officers Association/Union can spend tens of thousands of tax-free dollars every year to influence our local elections and the I.R.S. doesn’t say a word?

        1. Speaking of non profits, how about the California state lottery selling two dollar scratchers for the California Peace Officers Memorial Foundation. The Stars and Stripes ticket. A portion of the proceeds assist families left behind by fallen peace officers.

        1. short attention span summary:

          “In America today, one in every hundred adults is behind bars. As our prison population has exploded, “law and order” interest groups have also grown-in numbers and political clout. Committed to punitive justice, these organizations perpetuate America’s imprisonment binge. The Toughest Beat forcefully demonstrates how this cyclical process has unfolded in California.

          In crisp, vivid prose, Joshua Page argues that the Golden State’s prison boom fueled the rise of one of the most politically potent and feared interest groups in the nation: the California Correctional Peace Officers Association (CCPOA). As it made great strides for its members, the prison officers’ union also fundamentally altered the composition and orientation of the penal field. It promoted extreme punishment and moralistic conceptions of prisoners, helped institute ultra-tough penal policies such as Three Strikes and You’re Out, obstructed efforts to privatize prisons, and empowered sympathetic political figures and groups, including crime victims’ organizations that it helped create. To understand the nature, purpose, and scope of California’s penal system, Page explains, we cannot neglect the story of this group so often known simply as “the powerful prison guards union.”

          Now apply all of the above to police unions in the proper context. See the problem now?

        2. Thanks for providing the link. This book sounds like a doctoral in how the police unions have corrupted our political and judicial system.

          Sample of one reader’s review…

          “”The Toughest Beat” by Josh Page is a primer on California politics over the last three decades. While not providing answers for all of the state’s economic woes, it is a blueprint for manipulation of voters’ opinions and base fears and politicians’ reactions in one particular case, criminal justice and prison populations. Financial support for the state’s devastatingly-costly prison system at the expense of other core needs; i.e. public education and welfare, is basic to its economic troubles and will continue to contribute to its downward spiral if not adequately addressed. Although the U.S. Supreme Court ruled on May 23, 2011 that California’s overcrowded prisons constitute “cruel and unusual” conditions for the human beings encased in those cells and ordered the release of thousands of prisoners within two years, savvy observers are aware that reform of any kind will remain an uphill battle.

          Josh Page tells us why and how this state of affairs came to be in his book about the rise of California’s powerful prison guards’ union (the CCPOA) and of its pivotal role in rallying punitive forces in the Golden State as the U.S. initiated and fought its War on Drugs that focuses primarily on poor people of color. The book helps the reader understand how creating beneficial alliances, seizing windows of opportunity, and astute political maneuvering can make a special interest group a powerful player in the political arena. However, it also offers hope for those concerned about mass incarceration in California and elsewhere in the country. If one understands the genesis of punitive-oriented ideology and practices, one can better begin to devise more successful, humane alternatives.

          1. FL, it is a fascinating read.

            I also stumbled upon this:

            Title: The Impact of Police Unions: Summary Report.
            Authors: Juris, Hervey A.; Feuille, Peter
            Peer Reviewed:
            Publisher: Superintendent of Documents, U. S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D. C. 20402 (Stock No. 2700-00248, $0.65)
            Publication Date: 1973-12-00
            Pages: 27
            Pub Types: Reports – Research
            Abstract: To assess the impact of police unionism on the operation and administration of police departments, in-depth field surveys of active police unions were conducted in the summer and fall of 1971 in 22 cities where police unions were active. In the summary report the development of police unions is discussed, and the sources and dimensions of union power are outlined. The report examines the impact of police unionism on labor relations, police professionalism, the authority of the chief, and the formulation of law enforcement policy. The growth of black officers’ organizations, in both complementary and adversary relationships with existing police unions, is also explored. The study stresses the indirect impact of police unions on such areas as departmental policy-making, citing “the extent to which the police and other chief officials have failed to take action because of anticipated reactions from the union.” The report concludes that, in the formulation of law enforcement policy, “the union, regardless of motivation, was essentially a conservative, reactionary force.” Appended to the document is a six-page bibliography. (Author/BP)

            Basically this report found that police unions limited actions chiefs could take and policy changes they might want to make.

            Kind of ironic because this time last year I would have told you I supported public employee unions overall. Well, not so much these days! Especially public safety and corrections.

        3. Go back and read the last sentence of my first response but don’t wait for a retraction. You’ve spun this in several directions, initially saying our tax dollars pay for union activity and that somehow, the union has thins magical power to write laws. I also stand by my views are the corrupt politicians and agencies that can be bought and paid for by any group, union or otherwise, are the real head of the snake that must be cut off.

          1. Hey, you can choose to learn from others or you can choose to stubbornly stick to uninformed positions despite being shown evidence to the contrary. Guess you’ve made your choice.

    3. Fullerton Lover, I honestly can’t answer that. I don’t know what all Drake’s political activity involved but that he used his church’s stationery would suggest his tax exempt church was endorsing a political figure. When I was with the Post Office, I was a union member. I knew a portion of my dues covered a PAC. But in all my years there, I don’t recall anything on union stationery being of political nature. Union PAC funds were contributed to campaigns. While its endorsements and contributions were known, nothing was mailed to us suggesting who or what to support. Things could appear in the union rag that went out to its members. This could be considered equivalent to a church bulletin for its members. Did Drake ever endorse anything political in his church bulletin and receive problems for doing so?

      There are things unknown that make it impossible to answer about different entities that may or may not cross the line even though one’s actions seem similar to the other’s but isn’t.

      1. I totally understand a unions need for non-profit status, it’s just that it doesn’t seem right that $19,000.00 of the Fullerton Police Officers Association/Union’s money was spent undermining the political recall of McKinley, Bankhead, and Jones.

        These same unions have given these three guys unabashed financial support throughout the years in exchange for favorable employee bargaining agreements, and the fact that they’re doing it tax-free, just doesn’t sound to me like we’re all playing on an even playing field.

        That really seems to me that it crosses

        1. What entity made the donation? The Fullerton Police Officers Association is not a non-profit. If you check website, no where on the website does it indicate non-profit. I checked IRS and they are not filed as non-profit, however they are filed as a corporation with the State of CA since 1962:

          Entity Number: C0428736
          Date Filed: 03/01/1962
          Status: ACTIVE
          Jurisdiction: CALIFORNIA
          Entity Address: PO BOX 448
          Entity City, State, Zip: FULLERTON CA 92832
          Agent for Service of Process: BARRY COFFMAN
          Agent Address: 237 W. COMMONWEALTH AVE
          Agent City, State, Zip: FULLERTON CA 92832

          1. Interesting find. I’ve never heard of an employees union being a for-profit corporation?

          2. After reading a little bit about the origins and bylaws for employees unions, I’m curious as to how and why the FPOA incorporated itself?

            Federal law grants workers across the country the right to form labor unions and collectively bargain for better wages and working conditions. Labor unions are not corporations or businesses, although these organizations may wield considerable influence due to the size of workforces behind the unions. This influence provides a position of strength when coming to the bargaining table to advocate for workers.
            Start of Labor Unions
            Labor unions in the United States rose to prominence in the wake of the now infamous Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire in March of 1911. The fire killed 146, mostly female immigrant workers, because owners of the building locked the doors to prevent employees from taking breaks. The event brought about a massive movement looking into safety in the workplace and organizations developed to represent the interest of workers to ensure public sentiment surrounding the catalyst event became law.
            National Labor Relations Act
            In 1935, President Theodore Roosevelt signed the National Labor Relations Act. This law formally gave workers the right to form labor unions and collectively bargain for better working conditions, hourly wages and benefits. The law also granted workers the right to strike and have cases heard by the newly formed National Labor Relations Board. From 1935 forward, it was illegal for employers to intimidate workers from trying to form labor unions or threaten to close down businesses where labor unions formed. The NLRB has broad powers to force employers to the bargaining table to facilitate the collective bargaining process.
            Creating Labor Unions
            The National Labor Relations Board has the power to supervise the formation of a labor union and the election of the union’s governing body. Employees begin the union creation process by filing a petition with the NLRB. This petition must show that at least 30 percent of employees at the given business wish to organize as a labor union and elect representatives for collective bargaining. The petition must show the signatures of every employee requesting organization and the assistance of the NLRB in forming the union.
            No Articles of Incorporation
            A labor union is not a business, is tax exempt and files no articles of incorporation with the state or federal government. This is an organization created and operated by employees who have the power to decertify the union with majority vote at will. A labor union has the right to collect dues for each member to pay for operational costs, but this collection does not constitute revenue for business purposes. According to the NLRB’s website at publication, 20 states have passed laws allowing new employees to decide whether join a labor union when accepting a job where a labor union exists. These states are mostly in the South and Midwest, including Florida, Louisiana and Kansas.

  19. Those special assessments are going to be pretty costly for the FPOA when it starts funding its indefensible members.
    But then again, soon there probably won’t be a FPOA.

    1. The FPD contract is up June 2014, I surmise you are correct.

      I believe the Kelly Thomas murder is THEIR death knell when add to the escalating cost of the City maintain its own Police force

  20. All of the officers except Manny and Joe did not have their DARs on. It happens all the time. It is not intentional.

    The taser was used because as he said, they ran out of options…this is not something that happens all the time, obviously. Kelly kept resisting. Why? Because he was a unmedicated schizophrenic, I am not sure who knew of his mental state. I am sure if they knew, the white coats would have been called. Have you heard of someone dying from a broken nose? Recently, my young son jumped on top of my head, landing on the top of my cheek bone, it may have been fractured…it blew up into a huge black eye within hours and my face looked worse than Kelly’s. My injury was accidental because my son wanted to play with me and he wanted my attention and I am still alive. That picture of Kelly is deceiving…

    No, I am not scared of any of the officers and I have never been beaten by anyone. I do not run away from police officers. I do not resist. I listen, like every citizen should.

    1. Anonymous: I was responding to a specific point made that claimed one can’t die from a broken nose. I never said it was the sole cause of Kelly’s death as the dolt inferred.

      What a stretch comparing this situation to George Zimmerma.

    2. Wrong. Cicvinelli said: “I ran out of options and had to beat his face to hell.” he’s going to be convicted by his own words.


      How do you know that the DARs were not left off intentionally?? Answer: You DON’T.

      The D.A. has established that Ramos KNEW Kelly Thomas and that Ramos KNEW that Kelly was mentally ill.

      Kelly did not die from a “broken nose.” Kelly Thomas died from “blunt force trauma to the head and a lack of oxygen.”

      You stated that your cheek bone “…may have been fractured…” Kelly’s cheek bone DEFINITELY WAS fractured.

      You say that you got a “…huge black eye…” Kelly’s eye was DESTROYED. If Kelly had lived; he would now be blind in his left eye.

      You say that you are “…still alive.” I guess that’s the big difference between your “injury” and Kelly’s brutal murder, isn’t it? IS Kelly Thomas still alive?? NO, HE’S DEAD!!

      You say that your “…injury was accidental…” and caused by your little son who wanted your attention. HOW can you dare to compare your little accidental injury to Kelly’s MURDER??

      Unarmed, innocent, Kelly Thomas was threatened with great bodily harm, struck with a baton, had his head bashed into the concrete curb, had his ribs broken, his lung collapsed and filled with blood, and then his chest was crushed and suffocated by the weight of six officers. They even pushed with their feet against the side of the squad car so that they could exert even MORE force, pressure and weight on top of Kelly!

      Kelly was repeatedly Tasered, knee dropped, choked, punched, kicked, beaten with clubs and bludgeoned in the face with a Taser, WHILE HELPLESS KELLY WAS BEING CRUSHED and held down by several HUGE officers.

      And, THEN Kelly was left unattended, without the officers ever giving any first aid, left unconscious and choking on his own blood, lying in a huge swimming pool of his own blood, while the officers laughed.

      You need to realize that your “friend” Jay bludgeoned and smashed in the head, face and eye of innocent, unarmed, half naked Kelly Thomas, WHILE Kelly was being pinned to the ground by other officers.

      Kelly became UNCONSCIOUS, and yet Jay still KEPT ON bludgeoning Kelly! Jay smashed Kelly’s nose and the bones deep within his skull, which is not easy to do, – it takes a great amount of force to break the ethmoid plate.

      According to a witness statement, Jay carefully and methodically aimed each of the eight massive blows to Kelly’s face and nose! Kelly had broken cheek bones, a broken nose, fractured ethmoid plate (the ethmoid bone is a bone deep within the skull that separates the nasal cavity from the brain).

      These SEVERE facial fractures caused such massive bleeding inside Kelly’s head that Kelly was choking on his own blood!

      Your “friend,” Jay, also knee dropped TWICE with his FULL BODY WEIGHT down onto Kelly’s face and throat, -CRUSHING Kelly’s windpipe! Jay did this AFTER Kelly was ALREADY UNCONSCIOUS. Jay also continued to Taser Kelly AFTER Kelly was ALREADY UNCONSCIOUS. Your “friend” Jay was in a sociopathic murderous FRENZY!

      Officer Ramos THREATENED Kelly Thomas with great bodily harm, which caused Kelly to fear for his life. Kelly had the LEGAL RIGHT to defend himself from their threats and blows! The officers NEVER tried to reasonably arrest Kelly Thomas before threatening and striking him!!

      Kelly was NEVER a threat to the officers. Kelly fought ONLY to breathe, to survive and to LIVE! Kelly struggled out of fear, terrible pain, and panic, -just as anyone would do who was also being crushed and beaten to death.

      Kelly struggled to survive just the same as a drowning man, gasping for a breath of air, would thrash around, calling for help, trying to grab onto something out of sheer desperation and panic. It would be IMPOSSIBLE NOT to fight for your life. It is INSTINCTUAL to try to survive and to breathe.

      Kelly was OUTNUMBERED and OUTWEIGHED. Kelly was UNARMED. Kelly was repeatedly begging for his life, begging for his Dad and for God to help him, and saying he was sorry.

      I don’t know how you can watch the video of Kelly being murdered and not be absolutely HORRIFIED and ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!

      You have a LOT of nerve to try to compare your little accidental injury caused by your little son –to the BRUTAL torture and murder of Kelly Thomas by six OVERWEIGHT, BULLETPROOF VEST WEARING, ARMED, TRAINED, TASER WIELDING, BATON WIELDING COPS. SHAME ON YOU!

      Justice For Kelly Thomas Facebook page


      In the harrowing moments before he lost consciousness Kelly Thomas cried out for his dad 31 times.
      He yelled “Help me” 26 times.
      He cried out “I’m sorry” 15 times.
      He used words like please and sir.
      He said “OK” 29 times.

      Your “friend,” Jay, has VERY serious mental health issues of his own. Jay, and his buddies in blue, brutally, mercilessly and unnecessarily, tortured and MURDERED unarmed Kelly Thomas, while Kelly BEGGED for mercy!

      FRIENDS OF JAY, I think you’d better watch the video.

  21. Yes, I have heard one can die from a broken nose. In fact, I can recall various self protection instructors over the years saying to use the palm of your hand and with all your might, slam it upward into your assailant’s nose. Bare minimum is doing enough damage, giving you a chance to get away. It was also made known that this could possibly kill them if the ethmoid plate is broken and the force extends beyond it. The ethmoid plate is difficult to get to and even more difficult to break. Your pal managed to break Kelly’s.

    If 5 or 6 men can’t restrain one small man, they aren’t fit to be in law enforcement and should go hang their heads in shame. They’re an embarrassment to their fellow officers, the city of Fullerton and its residents.

    Your pal is a disgrace and we will make sure this follows him forever.

    btw Mrs C, there are anonymous abuse hotlines and groups ready to help. If you are in an abusive situation, I’m
    sure you’re scared. If so and you’re afraid to make a move, your husband will be doing some time. Seize that time to run and don’t look back.

  22. Okay, SherBear, how many cases of this “Ethmoid bone trauma” do you know of, that have caused death?

    Because I heard the coroner say, “Again, it’s the whole body, not just one injury….” This is what she kept repeating over and over again, no matter how many times Barnett and Schwartz questioned her. “Again, the cause of death was from the whole body…”

    George Zimmerman suffered a broken nose and he’s still alive. Check it out. It’s all over the internet.

    1. Anonymous
      So, what are you impling?
      Cici only gave Kelly a broken nose?
      Yes, injuries to the WHOLE body were the reason he died- and those injuries were inflicted in addition to a broken nose or “ethmoid bone trauma” (which, BTW, is more than a simple broken nose) by, in part, none other than the one eyed maniac’s Taser, the back of his Taser, his knee and his fat stomach -so far.

    2. Yes we know. McSociopath has already told us. Facial injuries are not life threatening. Except that the reality is that the blood from his facial injuries poured into his lungs as six fat bastards took turns sitting on his chest. He was asphyxiating in his own blood and soon there after went into cardiac arrest.

      No doubt the sleazy attorneys will try to get a simple-minded jury to believe that if you slice up the baloney thin enough it won’t be baloney anymore.

      Ramos, Wolfe, Cicinelli, Blatney, Hampton and Craig killed that man out of malice and indifference. Plain. Simple.

      1. “No doubt the sleazy attorneys will try to get a simple-minded jury to believe that if you slice up the baloney thin enough it won’t be baloney anymore.”

        Yes that is exactly what they will do.

        “We don’t know how that man died and we don’t know what actually killed him. In fact we’re not even sure he’s dead at all!”

    3. Anonymous: I was responding to a specific point made that claimed one can’t die from a broken nose. I never said it was the sole cause of Kelly’s death as the dolt inferred.

      What a stretch comparing this situation to George Zimmerman.

    4. btw Having done some Google searches, I was able to find items on ethmoid bone trauma-related deaths. However, the ethmoid bone is a bit more fragile than I had known.

  23. Thanks for posting my response on the blog! Is this Tony? Travis? We know all the names. So…anything I say, you will post on the blog? Cool. Also, I noticed you posted it four times. Thanks. I appreciate you letting our side of the story out there, Normally , the blog blocks my responses. So thanks alot. Still praying for you…

    1. @ FRIENDS OF JAY,
      What IS your “side of the story”?? From reading your comment above, I believe that your fairy tale story was something about how your young son wanted some attention from Kelly Thomas. Your young son wanted to play with Kelly Thomas, so your young son jumped on top of Kelly’s head and he may have accidentally broken his cheek bone…..and the picture of Kelly Thomas lying in a coma, brain dead, is deceiving….because Kelly Thomas is still alive, just like you.

      That’s quite the bedtime story; perhaps you could submit it to Grimm’s Fairy Tales.

  24. #89, Justice for all: The entire horrific murder could not have been covered any better, or more accurate, than you have said. You are absolutely correct on every count, but it`s just useless to try to get crazy, rotten people, with no decency or heart, to see the situation as it truly was. They come from another ”planet,” or something, and are not even Christian, or even human. ANYONE , who could view that video, and not know, or admit that those 6 ”rotten pigs” murdered, and tortured an innocent man, are MUCH MORE SICK, than Kelly EVER WAS!!!!! jUST LIKE ” THE COMMONWEALTH” above, at least Kelly had a legitamite illness, THIS person, is just a rotten piece of crap from some other planet, or SOMETHING!!!! ”jUSTICE FOR ALL”, You sound like a real decent caring Christian person, God Bless You,….. AND the Thomas family, and…..”JUSTICE FOR KELLY”, God rest his soul!!!!!!!

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