This Post Is Not About Jay Cicinelli

Nope. It’s a reminder of how a one-eyed cop was hired by the City of Fullerton to patrol our streets with badge, gun, taser and who knows what else.

Here ya go sonny...

It is now pretty common knowledge that Jay Cicinelli was put on a disability pension by Bernard Parks, Chief of the Los Angeles Police Department following a horrific shooting of the six-week rookie cop. Smart move. Among other injuries, Cicinelli lost his left eye.

But Cicinelli’s dream of being a policeman was not to end so quickly. For he had an ally in the figure of Mike Hillman, a gung-ho cop’s cop – the type whose worldview divides people into two groups: cops and everybody else;  and Hillman was determined to put the one-eyed cop back on the streets somewhere – anywhere.

Hillman’s thoughts turned to little Fullerton, California where his one-time boss in the LAPD, Pat McKinley, had been appointed police chief. And what followed was a decision so incompetent and self-serving that it eclipses all of McKinley’s other disastrous personnel decisions – and that’s saying a helluva lot.

Should be considered armed and dangerous...

McKinley hired Cicinelli, gave him a badge, fire arms, and the keys to a patrol car, a decision so reckless and with such blatant disregard for the safety of the public and his own policemen, that he should have been immediately fired.

But he wasn’t, of course, and nobody else seemed to care. And Cicinelli remained on the force, a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. And when it finally did, the result was a dead man and a series of huge civil payouts to the man’s family. The first payout was for $1,000,000. More are coming.

Meanwhile, the miscreant who hired Cicinelli and all the other thugs, goons. thieves, con men, pickpockets, kidnappers, perjurers, destroyers of evidence, and sex offenders is sitting on our city council, voting on the settlements his employees caused, that will have to be paid by us.

Behind Closed Doors Chronic Failure Dick Jones Don Bankhead Ed Royce Law N Disorder MSM Falls on Face Patdown Pat McPension Repuglicanism Setting The Bar Low Something Wicked This Way Comes The Crime Beat The Culture of Corruption The Fullerton Recall

219 thoughts on “This Post Is Not About Jay Cicinelli

  1. Good article. You exposed how the good-ol-boy system operates in law enforcement. LAPD’s throw-a-ways are very suitable for use at Fullerton PD. How many other special favors were done for cops who patrol Fullerton’s streets? You know, favors for friends and such? IMO this would be like a pilot at one of the largest airlines losing sight in one eye – being disqualified – and then getting hired at a smaller airline as a favor to a friend while putting the public and the consumer at heightened risk. McKinley pulled a few strings wtih total disregard for the safety of the general public. Just another indication of his moral character IMO. Back the blue and hose the taxpayer.

  2. Published: March 20, 2009 5:00 a.m.
    Text: Next Article »
    Ex-LAPD official runs into trouble as O.C. assistant sheriff
    Friday, March 20, 2009
    Ex-LAPD official runs into trouble as OC assistant sheriff

    “Hurricane Hillmann” hits Orange County
    There was the choking incident at the Academy Awards, which Sobel said prompted her to stop speaking to Hillmann for a year.
    (See OCCCWS | Together We Win for picture)
    http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/hillmanb78479498z120090319185959000gbvh367s1_lg.jpg
    Eric Kessler was a 23-year-old Occidental College student when he encountered Hillmann during the anti-war rally near the Academy Awards.

    “He came out of his police car, the thing wasn’t even stopped yet, the door was open and it was still rolling,” Kessler remembers. “He picked up Gina (Kessler’s girlfriend Regina Clemente), lifted her up and threw her to the ground.”

    Hillmann said he didn’t recall the scuffle, but reported all use-of-force incidents to internal affairs. He says he was never disciplined; internal police records are confidential.

    Hillmann says he’s the first one to work toward a peaceful protest. But if demonstrators get out of hand, he’s the first one to join the fray, to restore order.One local police chief who knows Hillmann said Orange County is lucky to have him.

    “When the chips are down, Michael Hillmann is the man you want in charge,” said Fullerton Police Chief Pat McKinley, who was his supervisor at the LAPD.(I enlarged the font and put in bold print)”
    Orange County Assistant Sheriff Michael Hillman was laid off in 2010 from the Orange County Sheriff’s Department.
    Sadly for the good people of Fullerton, then Fullerton Police Chief Pat McKinley’s support for his blatantly abusive, fellow Los Angeles Police Officer, Michael Hillman, may have hinted at what was happening in the Fullerton Police Department.
    Did McKinley’s praise for Hillman in 2009 foreshadow the events on 5th July 2011, the beating death of Kelly Thomas at the hands of McKinley’s boys, Fullerton Police officers?

    1. One thing that needs to be changed ASAP is the secrecy, the police records being “confidential.” There is no place for confidentiality in anything that has to do with PUBLIC employees, whether police, teachers, whoever. This is one of the things that leads to misbehavior, knowing that the facts are hidden from everybody.

  3. Yep, a real winner. To me it’s sad because I heard McKinley was at the top of class when he was hired by LAPD. He and his first wife were our neighbors in the middle 1960s.

  4. Don’t forget. Hillman was the same slob who was texting insults on government owned texting devices about public speakers complaining about Sheriff Hutchen’s draconian policy on CCW’s. He was also involved in sending cops to Michael Jackson’s memorial gathering in LA for ‘training purposes’. Remember? 😀 He was a loose cannon. Like many of them are. He got a nice severance after resigning OCSD too. They take care of their own. We’ve seen example after example.

    1. Hillman, McKinley, Gates, all the same thing. A gang of blue thugs with badges and guns to inflict their brand of justice on everyone else but god forbid you would want the same for them. Oh, no, they must have their day in court… BS!

  5. “…….I heard McKinley was at the top of class when he was hired by LAPD”

    That’s not necessarily a good thing. Probably just another indication of his “win at all costs” personality.

  6. It seems to me that a “wonderful-heroic” person who is over the age of 18, would know that they don’t have an eye and wouldn’t want to make a decision to put others at risk by choosing to continue in an occupation that requires possible gun fighting, driving, contact with the public and, of course, both eyes to have sight in them, no matter who gives them a nod yes.

    And, Btw, McPat is more McCreepy in that picture with him in the hip giant rims-I’m guessing there must have been a wide white tie, matching belt, platform shoes and bell bottoms in his locker.

    1. What I’d like to know is why all cops seem to go with the shaved head? The glasses just make it more bizarre.

      1. Mandatory in the academy. At least half are usually former military so it’s common anyways. Some keep it short for a few years during training and probation and then it varies. Policies on hair length and appearance make most just choose to keep it short and clean for their careers.

          1. So would I.

            It would probably provide more info on his psychological profile as it applied to his job performance, or lack thereof.

            1. Why don’t you measure RT with that same stick?
              What happened with his marriages?
              How about Ronnie’s pscho pathetic profile on his non existent law enforcement career?
              Speculate on that for a while.
              Of course I know you don’t dare upset Ronnie. Ronnie and his GOD Complex. 😉

              1. Besides his son being brutally beaten to death, what has “Ronnie” done to deserve such ire from folks like you?

                1. A quote from “Rodney King”

                  “Can’t We All Just Get Along”

                  Let’s fix this….OK….
                  We will start by getting rid of the three old guys, and maybe find a better leader for FPD. There’s alot of work to be done….
                  So much anger….It puts fear into my life…

    1. That’s what I’m trying to find out too. My mother carpooled with his first wife Beverly. He has two sons, Paul and ?? I’ll have to look it up.

      My mother told me that Beverly was a great mom and the two boys were adorable. That’s where I got some info. I was still in elementary school and didn’t know her myself.

      He was a rising star at LAPD.

    2. Based on what I’ve read, a majority of cops are physical and mental abusers of spouses and children. Allowed to get away with it by any fellow cops who may get involved by being sent to an altercation by 911 or a complaint to superiors.

  7. this article points out ones determination and nothing else. He served his country, served the people of LA and served the people of Fullerton honorable

    1. > He served the people of Fullerton honorable

      I noticed a common theme with these guys, most of them are not proficient in English despite being born here.

      They also ignore several key factors like how he was allowed to drive a patrol car and assist with officers with one eye and a TBI along with the fact that he smashed kelly’s face in with a taser.

      1. if you don’t like what he did then complain to P.O.S.T. He did what he’s trained to do. He responded to the scene like he suppose to do and ended a fight. Dont blame these guys for Fullertons mismanagement. At least he responded to help one of the guys stood at 7eleven and never responded. If they’re rogue cops like most people think then where’s the long list of people who have been wronged by THESE cops?

        1. No need to complain to P.O.S.T.
          Cici will be getting it in the END from the criminal trial as well as charges from the FBI.
          Then he’ll really ‘get it’ in the rear-end once he’s in prison. Ha!
          Fu#* P.O.S.T.

        2. They train officers to bludgeon, knee drop and Taser UNCONSCIOUS people to death? Thanks for clearing that up.

          The Fullerton Six murderers “ended a fight” alright. They murdered an innocent man who was “fighting” only to BREATHE and to LIVE. Kelly was NEVER a threat to any of those officers.

          Justice For Kelly Thomas Facebook page

          Thursday.

          In the harrowing moments before he lost consciousness Kelly Thomas cried out for his dad 31 times.
          He yelled “Help me” 26 times.
          He cried out “I’m sorry” 15 times.
          He used words like please and sir.
          He said “OK” 29 times.

          1. That was in English too, loud and clear until the end –
            Help-26 times, I’m sorry-15 times, OK/please/sir-at least 20 times

            That’s alot of time for those abnormal, gang of blue apes who were beating and torturing him to death, to think “gee. maybe we should get the hell off him”.

        3. Nah. He’s a puss just like you puss. Never did squat by himself. Big fat scared bitch since he got shot, out for revenge.

        1. Actually, you would have to drop the “e” before adding the “y” in order to spell the word “honorably” correctly.

    2. He didn’t SERVE anyone, he was very well paid to do a job. A job he sought out for the pay and benefits.

        1. > @LM..a job that you couldn’t do.

          That’s the thing Cincinelli, plenty of people could have done your job. In fact you were disabled and collecting disability from the LAPD while working for Fullerton.

          I hate to imagine how many good able body people were passed along while you got to play cop for over a decade. A guy traumatic brain injury who can barely speak English and only has one eye does not belong anywhere near a badge, gun and police car.

          If we take your mental and physical condition into account, anyone could have done your job.

        2. JD Actually in the early 70’s I applied with a friend to Placentia PD, but when I said I wouldn’t shoot/kill anyone, except to prevent a killing, I washed out. My friend failed the physical. So I guess you’re right, for what it’s worth…

  8. Wouldn’t be the first time a Police Chief tried to cover the ass of an officer to further or enable a political career…… Then LAPD Chief Bernard Parks, a current LA City Councilman, quashed any delving into the link between the murder of rapper Notorious BIG and one of his officers, David Mack. This, according to lead veteran LAPD detective Russell Poole, hindered the investigation of the murder greatly.
    Mack was convicted on an unrelated bank robbery and was also part of the Rampart scandal.
    At that point, the cat was out of the bag and he was too loose of a cannon. He had to be terminated. However, at one point, Parks tried to cover his ass…….See any similarities to the Ciccianelli siuation?

    1. It’s not just cops who circumvent cop investigations or do damage control after the fact.

      Media does their dirty work too. Did you read the latest OC Register spin on the cold blooded gunning down of Sgt. Manuel Loggins in front of his 2 underaged daughters by a OC sheriff’s deputy? Look at the OC Register help clean up their mess by putting an officer friendly face on OCSD!!!

      http://www.ocregister.com/news/san-355508-clemente-coppock.html

      Yet you would NEVER see the OC Register do an article on the families that have been traumatized by police abuse and shootings. Naturally, that would be a topic of great public interest – and it has happened many, many times in Orange County – with lawsuits to prove it – but the OC Register avoids such topics like the plague.

      But the OC Register is first in line to do articles to back the blue and do damage control – even when little innocent children witness their own father blown away by a cop as he’s sitting a couple feet in front of them in a car.

      See it for what it is.

    2. I wonder if David Mack is related to Johnny Mack (former Urban League person, current L A police commission person)?

    1. merijoe, good find…”Retirement plans include teaching, consulting, working on a book and spending time on his 29-foot boat from which he swims and free dives regularly”.

      I’m curious who convinced him to run for city council?

      1. Yeah, what happened to his plans to

        “… spend a lot more time visiting our two sons and ‘grandpa-ing’ our three grandchildren,”?

      2. Too hard to resist. Most good image And reputation Chiefs have ended up with multiple pensions and retirements. That’s changing in the future due to California being broke but several are now Chiefs in other states which still allows them several pensions in the end. Some Chiefs work for a year to keep Chiefs seats warm while the cities look around for a permanent Chief too.

    2. “Reality Is” sounds an awfully lot like Pat Macabre:
      “…Retirement plans include teaching, consulting, working on a book and spending time on his 29-foot boat from which he swims and free dives regularly”.

      UPDATE: “Reality Is” has also been very busy during the past 10 months, using every available moment, 24/7, to post vile comments at the Friends For Fullerton’s Future blog.

      “Reality Is” has been viciously attacking Kelly Thomas, Kelly’s family, and all those who seek justice for Kelly’s heinous murder.

      “Reality Is” is desperately trying to salvage his disgraced reputation and to maintain the status quo at the FPD. Be aware that “Reality Is,” will attempt to use any means necessary to achieve his goals, including bullying, silencing others behind the thin blue line, diversion tactics, veiled threats, and lying.

            1. the greatest joy is to be had when Ramos and Cicinelli are convicted and lets all support Gov Jerry Browns pension reform:

              Forfeiture of all or part of pensions for elected officials or civil servants convicted of a felony associated with their offices or jobs.

                1. Thus far your “boys” have lost at every turn and the FPD is in a shambles thanks to them disgracing the organization.

                  You should try posting on the friendsforjay website. His wife is still trying to figure out why Jay was not invited to take the Sargent exam last December.

                  You share his wife’s distorted view of reality. Peas in a pod.

                2. How’s Trina, I mean Lisa.

                  She hasn’t posted here today. I’m worried about her JD

          1. You have no ethics. And whatever is left in you as a human, is gone. If you are one of FPD, I will never call them for help. Shame on you….

            1. Out of curiosity, what will you do instead of calling the FPD for help? I wish there was a way to make you post a bond so that you’d pay for breaking that promise. Funny!

  9. He kept mentioning his body armour, so he tested it on our time, on our employees, made it on our time, then sold us this body armour that all our PD wears, well isnt that special? Im sure at some rock bottom prices, like the 179 dollar rain gear. Fire them all,now.

  10. This is the CA DMV requirement for anyone over 18 to be able to get a driver license.
    I wonder if Cici also has a regular driver license.

    Vision exam requirement:

    A 20/40 visual acuity with or without glasses is the department’s vision guideline. Customers applying for a Class A, B, or commercial C license must see 20/40 with both eyes and each eye individually.

    Visual acuity measurements are obtained for both eyes together and for each eye separately while both eyes remain open, as in normal driving. There are two methods of testing, a Snellen chart or Optec 1000 Vision Tester.

    The Snellen chart contains five lines of letters and measures the portion of an applicant’s general seeing ability, known as visual acuity or keenness of vision. The Optec 1000 Vision Tester obtains a more precise vision score by providing a test situation, which is equivalent to placing the applicant at one end of a room 26 feet long to read a test target at the opposite end of the room.

    Applicants who do not pass either exams may, depending on the circumstances, be referred to a vision specialist. The vision specialist may prescribe eye glasses or a stronger prescription for the current eye glasses worn.

    http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#VISION

  11. Do any of you know that former Westminster PD Detective Anthony Orban is on trial for kidnapping and performing reprehensible sexual acts on a waitress who just got off work from her job? He’s using the “Zoloft” defense, claiming that he was insane at the time he committed the crimes. 😀 But he was smart enough to stick a gun in the poor woman’s face and forced her to drive to an industrial park where he would satisfy his animalistic urges. Stuck his firearm in her mouth while he did it too!

    Wouldn’t you think the trial would be big news? It’s been going on for a couple weeks now. The OC Register did one lousy article on it at the start. Nothing since that I know of. Yet when citizens commit heinous crimes on one another it’s not unusual for the OC Register to give us routine updates. But when cops commit heinous crimes on innocent citizens and ruin their lives – silence!

    Strange how that works, eh??? 😉

    1. Yes very interesting trial to follow. I was in the courtroom two days. The defense tactics are wild but may provide doubt. I doubt it due to how bad the crime was. Cool trial to follow as will the Kelly trial. 🙂

      1. How many people take anti-depressants to include Zoloft and how many kidnap and rape women that they don’t know? If Orban gets off on this defense the entire system is worthless. This is like the twinkie defense X 10. The judge shouldn’t have even allowed it in – which makes me suspicious about him/her too.

    2. It seems everyday there is another story about criminal cops.
      I think they all use the same barbers. They want to look alike. I read recently about the possibility of replacing their name badges with numbers. Maybe more people need to monitor police scanners and join ham radio groups. There is much more police brutality than people are lead to believe. Time for change is now.

  12. Highly ironic that the missing eye is not a physically causative factor in Kelly Thomas’ case. There are almost countless ways that this could have- indeed should have ended tragically for an innocent citizen or other police officer before Kelly’s demise.. This decision to hire after LAPD declared him unfit is so egregious, such a middle finger to Fullerton citizens and cops that it begs for McKinley to be forced to answer for it. A lot of you won’t agree with this and I am in no way excusing his role in Kelly’s death- but Cicinelli is the victim of a hiring decision that transformed him from a hero to a villain. Don’t be surprised if an attempt isn’t made to shift culpability from the hiree to the one doing the hiring.

  13. Anyone have any idea what was going on around DTF approx 2:30 this morning? I woken by the helicopter buzzing overhead and then sirens. I called FPD, informed there was one call ahead of me and put on hold. Several minutes later, she returned and rather than assure me all was covered or advise me to take safety measures, I was told “we’re too busy right now, you have to call later”…CLICK.

    1. Good looking out there, eh? I guess we don’t have the right to know what’s happening where we live. Some of us aren’t just concerned for our personal safety but that of family members not home and surroundings. I get being put on hold. But one call ahead of me and you’re too busy when it’s my turn? Bullshit.

      1. Last time I called the FPD a month ago, I was treated with the same contempt that SherBear is desrcibing having experienced.

        I immediately drove down to the station to find out why?

        When I arrived, I was greeted with the same sense of contempt by the receptionist as I had experienced on the phone.

        I also observed an officer next to the front desk person who was behind the glass talking on the phone to someone interested in buying his guitar from a Craig’s List ad?

        I finally ended up talking to a Lt. who assured me that he would look into my observations and concerns and would call me back asap with his findings.

        That was approximately a month ago and still no call back.

      2. Another blatent example of arrogance. Complain to the acting chief, and maybe he’ll force them to treat us with respect, I doubt it, but maybe if enough complain. Or bring it up at the city council meeting?

        1. I’m sure you did this and were nothing but respectful and patient but if you are not respectful in your request you will not get your answer in a respectful fashion. You will be treated tr same as how you act. So be a prick and bossy and you will get a bossy prick like response and in most cases be asked to leave the lobby. That’s reality. Yes I know you can treat public employees how you want because you pay their salaries but the reality is you will be treated the same as you act.

          1. Your assumptions are grossly incorrect.

            A bossy prick?

            I believe in the creeds “you create your own freight” and “you get more bees with honey than vinegar” etc…

            Don’t project how you would’ve handled the situation onto me.

            I actually took the time (3 hours) and trouble (I don’t get paid to consult for the FPD) to speak with Supervisors and Lieutenants in the hope that other residents wouldn’t have to be treated in the same fashion.

            What did that get me?

            Absolutely nothing. Huge waste of time and effort.

          2. I know and use proper phone etiquette and asked accordingly. Her response and hanging up on me were so fast, I never had a chance to say anything else.

        2. I did. Still waiting for my telephone call back from either the Lieutenant who promised acting Chief Hughes he’d look into the matter.

    2. From about 2:15 am to 2:40, approximately, the helicopter circled Hillcrest park numerous times. Sirens were interspersed between the buzzing sounds of the helicopter and spotlight focused on the park. That’s what I could see from my window, but couldn’t tell how many cop cars came to the location. I’d like to know what it was about too!

      1. Understood. It’s human nature. Humans don’t like to be disrespected. If all humans treat others how they want to be treated, this world would be a much better place. Most humans talk to people at the level the people they are talking to them at. People that speak and act with respect get just about everything they are seeking. Pricks get just about nothing. Reality.

        1. That’s a good point. So that goes in both directions, right? It appears the good citizens of Fullerton don’t like the disrespectful manner (and that’s an understatement if ever there was one) in which they have been treated by FPD. They’ve actually been treated in a criminal manner by some of the Fullerton police officers (reference the list of officers repeatedly listed on this blog). If a cop approaches a citizen in a disrespectful manner then they should expect what in return? How about when they approach them in a threatening manner? I’ve seen all kinds of video of FPD being off the chain disrespectful toward citizens and not just in the Kelly Thomas beating video. I wonder if the good citizens of Fullerton feel they have been treated disrespectfully by the FPD and city government? “Most humans talk to people at the level the people they are talking to [talk to them].” Maybe police departments that speak and act with respect get respect in return and those that don’t, don’t. Reality.

        2. “Most humans talk to people at the level the people they are talking to them at.”

          Pay attention. We have a genius at work here.

        3. Actually, RI, if you would watch the video that was so posthumously released by the court, KT acted with nothing but respect to the “officers” involved in his murder. Like begets like? Hardly.

  14. Anybody know the name of the now retired watch commander Lt who was on duty and called Hughes the night of Kelly’s murder and saw the beating on the camera in real time?

    1. talk to the retired police officer group that hangs out in the bottom corner of the train station parking lot east where they park thier cars chat and watch trains.

  15. It appearded very much that Cicinelli was aiming for Kelly’s left eye with his well aimed tazer strikes.Recent autopsy results say that his left eye was hemeraged.

    1. There is a very good blog and video titled “An eye for an eye.” It basically confirms exactly what you just said.

  16. I just showed this site to some friends for the first time. Upon seeing the picture of Pat McKinley, one of them said “He is one mustache away from being a pedophile.”

  17. While gathering signatures for the recall, one woman who signed told me about her horrendous experience with Cici. She was 50 at the time, about 5 years ago, possibly more. She was in night school studying to be a drug counselor for adolescents. It was the late afternoon and for no apparent reason was pulled over by Cici. She asked him why he pulled her over and he demanded she get out of the car. So she did and then he smashed her head into the frame above the door. He then asked her about her books in the back seat and she told him about night school. He said “So you’re going to sell drugs to kids?” He never ticketed her. That’s her story, best as I recall. She said she had a goose egg on her forehead for a week. Working the recall brought me keen insight into how many, very many Fullerton citizens have been harassed,
    disrespected (even the seniors!), falsely accused and arrested, etc… I heard so many stories it shattered my confidence in our police. On the plus side, I met some worthy policemen too. On several occasions when we were being harassed or when a store manager wanted to make a citizens arrest, there was always a decent cop who arrived to assist.

    1. Ditto with my experience gathering signatures for the recall. I heard many, many horror stories from young people who had been falsely arrested and charged with resisting arrest and then given “screen shots” on the way to the station that I lost count of them.

      For those of you who don’t know what a “screen shot” is, it’s when the officers handcuff the suspect and load them into the back of the patrol car and then will then turn off their DAR’s and turn up their radios and repeatedly hit their car brakes on the way into the station.

      What this does is cause the handcuffed persons defenseless face to strike the bulletproof glass that divides the patrol car without leaving any incriminating handprints on the suspect.

      I honestly received quite an education from everyday residents ages 9 to 90 as to why we need to reform our police department or completely disband it.

    2. I’m right there with ElleBear and Fullerton Lover. We heard from so many people about their experiences with the police, mentally ill family members, ridiculous and absurd comments from those opposing the recall and great conversations with law enforcement officers.

      Adding to what FL said about screen shots (I heard screen tests :/ )…the cops would floor it first and then slam on the brakes thus creating an even greater force in which their faces would get slammed. Repeatedly.

      1. When you run across people who have been abused by the FPD please ask them to contact this blog. We need to continue to compile evidence of FPD abuses. Evidence already first aired here is being used by attorneys for some of the many individuals currently filing suit against the FPD. More than that, the public deserves to know which Fullerton cops are out there abusing innocent members of the public. Since we can’t get that information from the police, we need to compile it ourselves. When we can ascertain that particular officers are doing things like this screen shots, slamming people’s heads into cars, etc. then we can publicize this info, and put pressure onto the FPD to get rid of these officers. If the individuals are afraid to come forward we can still collect this info while keeping their identities concealed. The public needs and deserves to know every incident of excessive force and random violence committed by every single member of our police force! [email protected]

    3. You say a cop banged your head on the door frame and you did nothing? That is why I don’t believe you!

        1. Where else do you go when victimized by a cop? to Trader Joe’s?

          Yes, JD-she did nothing, that’s the point, and you know it USED to happen, all the time.

          Better find other less painful ways to deal with people other than “screen shots” or other abuse tactics.

          Video cameras with sound are getting less and less expensive and they even have the type you can put on a button of your shirt. A person can’t see those.

          (pass that on)

  18. Who does hire the officers? Oh yeah, the City council has to vote on each officer after they are presented with a bio. Oh.. and the City Manager, and the City attorney has to agree, and the Chief, and the decision to hire Cicinelli was uuuuunaaaaaaannnnnimossssss!!!!!!
    They all knew that he only had vision in one eye and had been shot seven times and was the class leader at the academy. And on and on and on….

    SO GET OVER IT!!!!

  19. The hiring of Cicinelli brings up more than fitness of duty questions. Cicinelli continued to receive disability benefits from CalPers despite working full time in the same occupation from which he was disabled.

    CalPers needs reform and now. In private sector working full-time and collecting full disability would be fraudulent. Taxpayers of CA should not be saddled with this Police union self serving fraud. This was not the intent of disability insurance.

    Sellers is another abuser of the system. He knows the shit is going to hit fan so he ducks out on a disability retirement which enhances his pension payments.

    Recently, The Long Island Rail Road Retirement board noted that 80% of all retirees coincidentally experienced a disability right before applying for their normal date retirement benefits. Also of note was the fact the retirees were deemed disabled by the same small circle of doctors. Sound like abuse of an inane pension benefit?

    Change is coming and it will start with the recall of the self serving hacks on the Fullerton City council.

    Don’t let the call for change stop with the recall. Kelly’s tragic death has exposed corruption and abuse on many levels that need to be addressed.

    1. Orange Cape- You are mistaken- He receives diasability retirement from the city of Los Angeles-not CalPers. 100% legal.

      1. Legal as it is written now —needs to be changed. As I stated in private sector it would be fraud

          1. You’ve missed the issue. This is not about retirement earned by years of service.

            This is about “retirement disability” Cicinelli was allegedly disabled from his “job” as a Police Officer with LAPD. I’m questioning how he can be deemed totally disabled under one system and collect lifetime benefits while working full time for another system in the same position. Apparently it is allowed.

            I’m calling for reform

          2. > You can get PERS retirement and work at Target.

            That’s the problem Jay Cincinelli, you had no place working as a police officer. In fact no other department would hire you.

            You were in no way qualified to be a police officer. What McKinley did was equivalent to Target hiring a mentally challenged convicted child rapist to work in the girl’s department.

            > Is that double dipping? NO!

            Of course not to you and certainly to to the a-holes handing out our tax dollars like candy so you can sit on your fat ass and live a lavish life while pushing people around.

      2. You are quite correct – too bad OCHM can’t read! LAPD(City of Los Angeles) has a pension (disability or otherwise) system that has nothing to do with CalPERS. LASD has an independent system also, as does OCSD.

        As to CalPERS disability retirements/pensions for “safety” personnel (LEOs and FFs), once on the DR they cannot return to a “safety” classification (unless, of course, their disability is “cured” – ); they can, however, return to a “non-safety” position (with some limits that I don’t recall, but which may include giving up their “safety” DR pension for the duration of their new employment).

  20. Cicinelli had only been an employee of LAPD for a matter of weeks before his incident.

    Its an abusive benefit program that would allow him lifetime disability benefits while working in the same occupation elsewhere. Cicinelli is neither retired or disabled.

    In private sector returning to work full time ends disability benefits. Disability benefit payments for public employees should be on parity with private sector. Cicinelli is a clear case of self serving union abuse of taxpayer money

  21. Anonymous :
    One thing that needs to be changed ASAP is the secrecy, the police records being “confidential.” There is no place for confidentiality in anything that has to do with PUBLIC employees, whether police, teachers, whoever. This is one of the things that leads to misbehavior, knowing that the facts are hidden from everybody.

    THESE ANIMALS HAVE TO MUCH POLITICAL POWER.
    VOTE OUT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS.
    SETTLEMENTS SHOULD BE EXTRACTED FROM THE CORRUPT COP UNION PENSION FUND.

  22. Orange Cape Hides Me :
    Cicinelli had only been an employee of LAPD for a matter of weeks before his incident.
    Its an abusive benefit program that would allow him lifetime disability benefits while working in the same occupation elsewhere. Cicinelli is neither retired or disabled.
    In private sector returning to work full time ends disability benefits. Disability benefit payments for public employees should be on parity with private sector. Cicinelli is a clear case of self serving union abuse of taxpayer money

    AFTER RAMOSHIT AND THIS PSYCONELLI ARE EXONERATED THEY WILL SUE FOR LOST WAGES AND BE HONORED AS HEROES.

  23. William Wallace :
    Orange Cape- You are mistaken- He receives diasability retirement from the city of Los Angeles-not CalPers. 100% legal.

    ORGANIZE AND LEGISLATE FOR THE REMOVAL OF PENSIONS WHEN A CORRUPT COP IS CONVICTED OF A CRIME.

    1. Just spent the last half hour writing a letter to my State Representative about the abuse of the system by City and State employees using Cicinelli and Sellers as an example

      1. You know what they are going to say, if they ever do answer you. Oh well that is the way the disability retirement system is. If you want it changed get in line and write your congressman a bitch letter. Good luck!!

  24. Orange Cape Hides Me :
    The hiring of Cicinelli brings up more than fitness of duty questions. Cicinelli continued to receive disability benefits from CalPers despite working full time in the same occupation from which he was disabled.
    CalPers needs reform and now. In private sector working full-time and collecting full disability would be fraudulent. Taxpayers of CA should not be saddled with this Police union self serving fraud. This was not the intent of disability insurance.
    Sellers is another abuser of the system. He knows the shit is going to hit fan so he ducks out on a disability retirement which enhances his pension payments.
    Recently, The Long Island Rail Road Retirement board noted that 80% of all retirees coincidentally experienced a disability right before applying for their normal date retirement benefits. Also of note was the fact the retirees were deemed disabled by the same small circle of doctors. Sound like abuse of an inane pension benefit?
    Change is coming and it will start with the recall of the self serving hacks on the Fullerton City council.
    Don’t let the call for change stop with the recall. Kelly’s tragic death has exposed corruption and abuse on many levels that need to be addressed.

    YOU ARE CORRECT. PEOPLE ARE TO LAZY AND STUPID TO GATHER AND CHANGE THINGS. THAT’S WHY PSYCHOS LIKE THE FULLERTON POLICE CRIME FAMILY WILL CONTINUE TO RULE THE STREETS OF FOOLERTON, CA.

  25. Jumpin Jiminy :
    He kept mentioning his body armour, so he tested it on our time, on our employees, made it on our time, then sold us this body armour that all our PD wears, well isnt that special? Im sure at some rock bottom prices, like the 179 dollar rain gear. Fire them all,now.

    AGREE FIRE AND PROSECUTE.

  26. The Fullerton Harpoon :
    What’s with that rifle? Crowd control in Hillcrest park?

    PSYCONELLI TOOK HIS SECOND DISABILITY PENSION AND IS NOW WORKING FOR ANOTHER CORRUPT COP FORCE. AS SOON AS THE THE BOYS ON THE FPD AMASS ENUFF $$$$ RAMOSHIT WILL BE WITH HIM.

  27. Jane H :
    Yep, a real winner. To me it’s sad because I heard McKinley was at the top of class when he was hired by LAPD. He and his first wife were our neighbors in the middle 1960s.

    SAD INDEED IF HE WAS TOP ANIMAL. EXPLAINS ALL THE PSYCHOS IN UNIFORM.

  28. Anonymous :
    What I’d like to know is why all cops seem to go with the shaved head? The glasses just make it more bizarre.

    GESTAPO…STORMTROOPERS…CLOSET QUEENS

  29. JustUs :
    Do any of you know that former Westminster PD Detective Anthony Orban is on trial for kidnapping and performing reprehensible sexual acts on a waitress who just got off work from her job? He’s using the “Zoloft” defense, claiming that he was insane at the time he committed the crimes. But he was smart enough to stick a gun in the poor woman’s face and forced her to drive to an industrial park where he would satisfy his animalistic urges. Stuck his firearm in her mouth while he did it too!
    Wouldn’t you think the trial would be big news? It’s been going on for a couple weeks now. The OC Register did one lousy article on it at the start. Nothing since that I know of. Yet when citizens commit heinous crimes on one another it’s not unusual for the OC Register to give us routine updates. But when cops commit heinous crimes on innocent citizens and ruin their lives – silence!
    Strange how that works, eh???

    THE DAs OFFICE ORDERED THE CENSORSHIP.

  30. R.I. stated: “I could care less if people know me in reality.”

    Ok. Then who are you? Don’t worry; I’m not holding my breath.

    Unfortunately for you, but fortunately for America, most people DO agree that they don’t like LE who abuse, torture and murder under the color of authority, nor do they like LE who teach and condone such behavior, or cover for it afterwards.

    May we have a somber, appreciative and loving Memorial Day as we remember and celebrate the lives of all of those who have served our nation by making the ultimate sacrifice.

    And, may we all have a somber, reflective, and loving Memorial Day as we all continue to grieve for the loss of Kelly Thomas, and for other family members. May Kelly’s murder not be in vain, but serve our nation well by forcing us to once again recognize, and strive to root out, the corruption, evil and injustice that exists within.

  31. Deputies union goes to “war” over tougher internal affairs probes
    http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2012/05/21/deputies-union-goes-to-war-over-tougher-internal-affairs-probes/155452/
    “For decades, Orange County sheriff’s deputies, sergeants and detectives facing internal investigation had a notable advantage: they got to look at the evidence against them before being interviewed.”…………But on Jan. 1, 2011, Sheriff Sandra Hutchens unilaterally put an end to the practice in what the sheriff’s union called “an act of war.”
    The latest battle is headed this week to O.C. Superior Court, where the Association of Orange County Deputy Sheriff’s is attempting to win back the ability of deputies, detectives and sergeants to look at their internal affairs files before being interrogated. No other members of the department have gotten such access.”
    Anyone see this jewel?

    1. Follow Up…….
      Sheriff: Deputies are not ‘above the law’
      http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2012/05/24/sheriff-hutchens-deputies-should-not-be-above-the-law/155589/
      “Orange County Sheriff Sandra Hutchens said her decision to tighten up the internal affairs process — called by one union leader ”an act of war” — was crucial to harnessing a department reeling from a lack of accountability, transparency and leadership.”………….
      This brand of leadership is absent from our FPD. What a SHAME they, the FPD, and the three dodos brought to our community, to our city.

  32. Cicinelli’s wife sounds like one of those wacko religious nuts that selectively quotes the bible.

    Where are the prayers for Kelly Thomas and his family?

    1. I don’t know if Cicinelli’s wife is a victim of spousal abuse nor will I mock something so serious. However, in reading things she’s said and written, she certainly displays some of its characteristics; her denial of any faults or wrong doings on his part, the way she glorifies him, the way she justifies things she can’t deny about his actions are just a few things that come to mind.

      1. It’s not simply admiration of her husband; it’s more on a level that he is her lord and master, a god-like character in her mind.

  33. Well I say I had my own trouble with the Law in my life. I can’t say much good about what I have seen here in Canada. Here we are guilty till we prove our selfs Innocent. This I had to do may a time here. Mainly in 1984 in was called the Buxbaum Murder a Hired Killing I was charged they still proved me innocent but violated my Charter rights doing so my 11th right. Here we have rules and rights but we do not always get painted with the same brush as someone with money. It’s every man for him self .. Any way I love the fact you Americans stick together for your rights You are Innocent till you are found Guilty. OJ Simpson trial taught the world about DNA but at the same time the glove well it was a mistake to try put it on the actor. But your other court trial of the family been able to bring him back for wrongful death is confusing but is American Law. Now the Law in both counties sure needs good looks into. The fact here is an officer here can drag a person threw the system with no proof of guilt knowing they are innocent and nothing will ever come of it. Even after years in prison such as Dave Millgaurd, Donald Marshall, and Steven Trustcott our Canadian system takes forever to admit they are wrong and pay anything. YEARS AND YEARS in jail .. Our judges are not voted in they are offered the job over private employment. But the death of a innocent person was bound to happen on one side or the other.. Kelly Thomas lost his life I am only in any way glad it happened in the USA because you people stand up for what is wrong. You all will stand up for Kelly THOMAS you all are seen at times as been to proud but I see you as maybe a little rude only of the fact. You have to understand there is lots of people in the world. We have free health care and other counties also do … So your not doing yourselves any favors in that way. But you do have one of the better counties in the world. If it wasn’t for our flaws in our legal system that is modeled after your own. I would say I live in one of the best I am proud to be Canadian but then again prouder of you all that you take care of your own who have fallen at the hands legal system. Now go stand up for Kelly Thomas the homeless disabled man in a country where you can dream to be what ever you wish and you can be it. A country with it’s only major flaws are… No health care, The draft, The Death Penalty. And it’s not united on one law for your yes ALL your 51 states because If Canada keeps fallowing you all we become the the fifty-fist state. Before Portatreco any way STAND PROUDLY FOR KELLY THOMAS YOUR HOMELESS MAN make us proud of the fact America where HUMANS have rights… Then I to will say USA is the best place to be proud safe the rest you will all unite one day…. http://www.wefix.ca Check this out and here in Canada there is nothing others will help you with when your rights are violated over and over. Without money we are subjected to we are free to do as they tell us so. Don’t not let your officers be allowed to do what they did to KELLY THOMAS

      1. Well, NOW I DO have an especially huge distrust of the FPD, since they brutally tortured and murdered an innocent man.

        I admit that I will be even more likely to be “for” the next hapless victim of the FPD.

  34. McKinley need to be brought into any suit against ths “good ole” boy” hiearchy for letting obviously damaged goods run rough shod over the citizens of Fullerton.

  35. That gas bag Greg Diamond seems to be having a great deal of difficulty understanding why hiring a one-eyed cop is a reckless act.

    Can he really be that stupid? Having a one-eyed cop with 100 degrees of peripheral vision is damned risky, especially driving around at night. There’s a reason LAPD pensioned him off.

      1. He has more brains and common sense that all of you haters..Go Greg Diamond!!. You are the only one that tells it like he see it.

        1. So, John Doe….don’t you think that I “tell it like I see it.”??

          Tell me something, do you ever think before you type?? Nevermind, I already know the answer.

        2. I’d accept the compliment if you’d stop talking about things like Kelly shitting his pants during the beating, which makes me not want to have anything to do with you.

        3. John Doe and Greg Diamond. Yes, it’s all coming together. Diamond thinks Manny Ramos and Joe Wolfe are innocent, too.

          1. Yeah — and I’m sure that you understand my argument and can summarize it below, right? John Doe seems to have a different set of arguments.

            1. Apologists will always use different arguments to achieve the same ends. I’m surprised that with all your vast political experience you haven’t figured that out.

              1. We don’t have the same ends. I think that McKinley should be recalled and Cicinelli should be in prison. I’m surprised that even with the opportunity to move your lips when you read our respective comments you haven’t figured that out.

    1. If so, then police forces around the country must have hiring criteria — the way airlines do for pilots — saying that one must have binocular vision. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t. Do they? I assume that the author Joe Sipowicz must know, so you can ask him. If it’s not an actual criterion for hiring, then you’re just being prejudiced against the disabled — and I’d love to sue those who agree with you.

      1. “If it’s not an actual criterion for hiring, then you’re just being prejudiced against the disabled — and I’d love to sue those who agree with you.”

        That’s crazy Greg. And you think FFFers are hostile.

        1. People here are actually saying that McKinley should be FIRED SIMPLY FOR having hired a one-eyed cop.

          Well, if hiring a one-eyed cop is so terrible, then presumably there should be something written in the requirements for the job saying “if you only have one eye, don’t bother applying.”

          If there’s no such requirement, either it’s an oversight (no pun intended), or — there really isn’t a strong reason why a one-eyed person can’t be a cop. Yes, it’s an imperfection, like Manny Ramos’s ample and probably chasing-ability-impairing frame, but no one’s perfect.

          If it’s so easy to prove that hiring a one-eyed cop is SO RIDICULOUS that McKinley should have been fired SIMPLY FOR THAT, then I expect that it should be easy for someone to come up with more than noise in support of that argument.

            1. Just once I wish that that would actually happen for even half a minute, just to see the look on your face.

      2. Nice summation. That is exactly what Doc Heehaw said one night to try to worm out of hiring an unfit cop. You’re the expert on employee right: why did LAPD put him on a permanent disability?

        You’re not only a cretin you’re an ignorant fool.

        1. Good question. Disability can be total or partial. If he is totally disabled, I completely agree that he should not have been hired. If he’s partially disabled, it doesn’t necessarily imply that. Some things, like loss of an eye in the proper performance of one’s job functions, earn one partial disability with no questions asked. That doesn’t mean that one is unfit to work; it can compensation for the loss itself, not necessarily for the inability to earn a living afterwards.

          That is why I would expect that LAPD put him on permanent disability, though I don’t know what their other reasons might have been.

          Doc Jones said this? I didn’t know that — nor do I care. It’s not like people can’t be right about some things and wrong about others — you yourself are an example of that.

          Lapsing into insults like that just makes you look tiny-egoed.

            1. It’ll be a minute or two before brain damage sets in. Don’t worry, you can keep on blogging here, pretty much just as you have before.

          1. Look at the records, total disability. Cicinelli filed suit against the LAPD for reinstatement of his job as a patrol officer because LAPD only wanted to offer a desk job within the department upon his return to full-time work.

            Loss of an eye would be lump sum settlement payment.

            To ascertain if Cicinelli’s hiring was against FPD policy, one would have to acquire the job description in effect at the time he was originally hired.

            If the job description stated, vision in both eyes corrected to no less than 20/20, for example, this would be a clear indication he was unfit according to FPD’s own standards

      3. Tell that funny story to Garo Mardirossian who is about to clean out Fullerton’s reserves. Central to his claim will be LAPD’s telling Cicinelli he couldn’t be a cop there, and McKinley’s hiring him as a favor to an old crony buddy.

        At that point maybe Cicinelli can hire you to defend his rights as a disabled person!

        1. His rights as a disabled person were to be considered for a job despite any disability if he could still do the job. He got his rights; he has no discrimination claim. There’s nothing to “defend him on” there either. Why would you think that there was? That’s just weird.

          I am on record as saying that I think that Cicinelli committed manslaughter, so I would not defend him on that charge, as my statements would probably be entered into evidence.

          1. Discrimination of course! Isn’t that what you do?

            I don’t think there is anybody in the County who gives a damn about your “record.”

            Say aren’t you supposed to be running for something?

            1. I’m sorry, Fullpoon, I was explaining to you seriously why the legal point you were making about discrimination was wrongheaded. If you want me to grunt and gesture instead, I’ll have to be able to upload audio and visual files.

              I’m in an election a week from tomorrow, but I’m not campaigning much because this result doesn’t matter — unlike in November. I am looking forward to seeing the “before” picture of the district, though. I do appreciate your concern for my political welfare.

              1. > I’m in an election a week from tomorrow

                No, you’re not. You’re a paid seat filler to insure that the incumbent Bob Huff wins and nothing more.

                > but I’m not campaigning much because this result doesn’t matter

                At least you’re being somewhat honest.

      4. I was going to use the air leaving the room bit again but somebody stole my material.

        Instead I’ll just say that your jealousy of what a well-written, successful and entertaining blog looks like is driving you bonkers.

    2. Since not one of the loud foghorns here had the guts to look things up, I did it myself. I give you: Doane v. City of Omaha!

      http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-8th-circuit/1097840.html

      Royce DOANE, Plaintiff-Appellee, v. CITY OF OMAHA, Defendant-Appellant.

      No. 96-2835.

      — June 16, 1997

      Before RICHARD S. ARNOLD, Chief Judge, HANSEN, Circuit Judge, and BATTEY,District Judge.1
      Sherry E. Cotton (argued), Omaha, NE, for Appellant.Thomas F. Dowd (argued), Omaha, NE, for Appellee.

      Royce Doane, a former Omaha police officer, brought this suit against the city of Omaha, Nebraska, for discriminating against him on the basis of his disability, in violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), 42 U.S.C. §§ 12100-213 (1994).   A jury found in favor of Doane, and the city of Omaha appeals the district court’s 2 denial of its motion for judgment as a matter of law.   The city also claims error in the district court’s refusal to use its requested jury instruction and in the remedies awarded.   We affirm.

      I.

      Royce Doane brought this suit against the city of Omaha, claiming that the city discriminated against him on account of his disability when it failed to rehire him as a police officer.   Doane had been a police officer in Omaha from June 30, 1973, until June 2, 1984.   Two years into his employment, in 1975, Doane lost vision in one eye due to glaucoma.   With glasses, his overall vision is corrected to 20/20, though he actually is seeing out of only one eye.   He reported the blindness to his immediate command officer and took some medical leave for treatment, but he continued working successfully and competently as a police officer for nine years after the onset of this condition.   During those nine years, Doane performed all the duties required of a police officer and consistently attained qualification as an expert in the use of firearms.

      In 1984, Doane was asked to undergo an eye examination, after which he was advised that his career was over.   Doane was given a choice between resigning with a small pension or applying for a 911 communications job.   Doane took the 911 position and later also worked for a time as a jailor.   Doane made several requests for reemployment as a police officer, but each was denied on account of his blindness in one eye.

      Relevant to this suit, Doane applied for re-employment as an Omaha police officer on August 12, 1992.   The job notice to which Doane replied listed vision as a special requirement of the job and stated the following:

      Vision must be not less than 20/200 using both eyes without squinting, correctable to 20/20 using both eyes without squinting.   Applicants must also possess normal color perception and have no evidence of irreversible disease which will affect the person’s sight.

      (Appellant’s App. at 64.)   The city asserted that the “using both eyes” language meant that an applicant must have binocular vision-the ability to see out of each eye.   The city employed police officer recruits other than Doane for its training class, which began on November 30, 1992.   On July 23, 1993, the city personnel director denied Doane’s request for re-employment.   The city rejected Doane’s application on the basis of Chief of Police Skinner’s conclusion that Doane’s vision problem was a significant limitation.   Specifically, Chief Skinner thought that Doane’s lack of peripheral vision in one eye would significantly limit his ability to perform as a police officer.

      Doane filed a discrimination charge with the Nebraska Equal Opportunity Commission and the United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.   The Nebraska Equal Opportunity Commission required the city to re-employ Doane, but the city personnel director refused to do so.   Consequently, Doane brought this ADA suit, which was tried to a jury.   Doane’s medical experts testified that binocular vision is not required to satisfy the vision standard set forth in the 1992 job notice and that Doane’s visual abilities sufficiently satisfy the requirements of that notice.

      The city made an oral motion for judgment as a matter of law at the close of the plaintiff’s evidence and renewed its motion at the close of the case.   The district court overruled the motions and submitted the case to the jury.   The jury returned a verdict in favor of Doane, awarding compensatory damages (including neither back nor front pay) in the amount of $50,000.   The district court denied the city’s post-trial motion for judgment as a matter of law or a new trial and awarded Doane $40,000.20 in back pay and $10,874.77 in back pension benefits.   Additionally, the district court ordered reinstatement by requiring the city to allow Doane to enter police recruit training.   The city appeals.

      II.

      We review de novo the district court’s denial of a motion for judgment as a matter of law, using the same standards as applied by the district court.   Varner v. National Super Markets, Inc., 94 F.3d 1209, 1212 (8th Cir.1996), cert. denied, — U.S. —-, 117 S.Ct. 946, 136 L.Ed.2d 835 (1997).   We view all facts and resolve any conflicts in favor of the jury verdict, giving Doane the benefit of all reasonable inferences.  Id. “It is well settled that we will not reverse a jury’s verdict for insufficient evidence unless, after viewing the evidence in the light most favorable to the verdict, we conclude that no reasonable juror could have returned a verdict for the non-moving party.”  Ryther v. KARE 11, 108 F.3d 832, 836 (8th Cir.1997) (en banc), petition for cert. filed, 65 USLW 3694 (U.S. Apr. 4, 1997) (No. 96-1571).

      The ADA generally protects “a qualified individual with a disability” from discrimination on the basis of that disability in matters of job applications and hiring, among other aspects of employment.  42 U.S.C. § 12112(a).   To obtain relief under the ADA, a plaintiff must establish that he is (1) a disabled person within the meaning of the ADA, (2) that he is qualified to perform the essential functions of his job either with or without reasonable accommodation, and (3) that he suffered an adverse employment action because of his disability.   See Benson v. Northwest Airlines, Inc., 62 F.3d 1108, 1112 (8th Cir.1995);  Wooten v. Farmland Foods, 58 F.3d 382, 385 (8th Cir.1995).

      A. Disabled within the meaning of the ADA

       The city contends that in spite of Doane’s blindness in one eye, he is not a disabled person within the meaning of the ADA. The ADA defines disability as “a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more of the major life activities of [an] individual,” or having “a record of such an impairment,” or when an individual is “regarded as having such an impairment.”  42 U.S.C. § 12102(2).  “Major Life Activities means functions such as caring for oneself, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, and working.”  29 C.F.R. § 1630.2(i) (emphasis added).   Factors to consider in determining whether a disability has substantially limited a major life activity include “the nature and severity of the impairment,” “the duration or expected duration of the impairment,” and “the permanent or long term impact of or resulting from the impairment.”  29 C.F.R. § 1630.2(j)(2).   See Aucutt v. Six Flags Over Mid-America, Inc., 85 F.3d 1311, 1319 (8th Cir.1996).

      The agency’s interpretive guidance on the ADA explains that “[t]he determination of whether an individual has a disability is not necessarily based on the name or diagnosis of the impairment the person has, but rather on the effect of that impairment on the life of the individual.”  29 C.F.R. pt. 1630, appendix § 1630.2(j).  “[A]n impairment is substantially limiting if it significantly restricts the duration, manner or condition under which an individual can perform a particular major life activity as compared to the average person in the general population’s ability to perform that same major life activity.”  29 C.F.R. Pt. 1630, App. § 1630.2(j).   Additionally, “[t]he determination of whether the individual is substantially limited in a major life activity must be made on a case by case basis, without regard to mitigating measures such as medicines, or assistive or prosthetic devices.”   Id. See also Harris v. H & W Contracting Co., 102 F.3d 516, 520-21 (11th Cir.1996) (holding that the ADA interpretive guidelines are based on a permissible construction of the statute);  Sicard v. City of Sioux City, 950 F.Supp. 1420, 1428-39 (N.D.Iowa 1996) (same).

      Doane experiences total permanent blindness in one eye due to glaucoma.   See Martinson v. Kinney Shoe Corp., 104 F.3d 683, 686 n. 2 (4th Cir.1997) (noting that “both glaucoma and blindness ․ can be disabilities”).   He presented evidence that the loss of vision in one eye constitutes a 25% disability of the visual system and a 24% whole body impairment, according to the American Medical Association.   Doane’s medical experts testified that Doane’s blindness in one eye substantially limits his major life activity of seeing.   The evidence demonstrated that Doane cannot sense depth in the same manner as persons with binocular (two-eyed) vision, and his peripheral vision is limited due to his impairment.

      The city argues that Doane’s impairment does not substantially limit the major life activity of seeing because Doane has learned to adapt and accommodate himself to his impairment.   Doane’s corrected vision is 20/20.   His medical experts testified that his brain has learned to work with environmental clues to develop his own sense of depth perception using only one eye and that he has learned to compensate for his loss of peripheral vision by adjusting his head position.   His doctor expressed the opinion that Doane is able to function normally because his brain has learned over the years to make subconscious adjustments to compensate for the limitation.

       We conclude that Doane is an individual with a disability within the meaning of the ADA. His glaucoma caused permanent blindness in one eye which substantially limits Doane’s major life activity of seeing.   The manner in which Doane must sense depth and use peripheral vision is significantly different from the manner in which an average, binocular person performs the same visual activity.   Doane’s brain has mitigated the effects of his impairment, but our analysis of whether he is disabled does not include consideration of mitigating measures.   His personal, subconscious adjustments to the impairment do not take him outside of the protective provisions of the ADA.

      The city urges us to follow the Fifth Circuit’s holding that “a person is not handicapped if his vision can be corrected to 20/200.”  Chandler v. City of Dallas, 2 F.3d 1385, 1390 (5th Cir.1993), cert. denied, 511 U.S. 1011, 114 S.Ct. 1386, 128 L.Ed.2d 61 (1994).   Because Doane’s vision is correctable to 20/20, the city argues, he is not a person with a disability within the meaning of the ADA. We decline to apply the Fifth Circuit’s holding in this case.   We must consider each situation on a case by case basis.   Doane’s vision impairment stems not merely from overall poor eyesight but from total blindness in one eye due to glaucoma, which significantly restricts the manner in which Doane performs the major life activity of seeing.   Thus, Doane is a person with a disability entitled to the ADA’s protection.

       In this case, even if Doane’s glaucoma did not actually substantially limit Doane’s ability to see, our conclusion would be the same.   The ADA’s definition of disability includes persons who are perceived as having an impairment that substantially limits a major life activity.  42 U.S.C. § 12102(2)(C).   Police Chief Skinner testified that he perceived Doane’s visual problem as a significant limitation and that this was the reason he recommended rejecting Doane’s employment application.  (Appellee’s App. at 18-19.)   Thus, the evidence demonstrates that the city perceived Doane as having a disability that substantially limited his ability to see.   The city cites cases holding that a plaintiff’s major life activity of working is not substantially limited by an inability to perform a single job.   See, e.g., Wooten, 58 F.3d at 386;  Chandler, 2 F.3d at 1391-93;  Welsh v. City of Tulsa, Okla., 977 F.2d 1415, 1417-19 (10th Cir.1992).   We do not disagree with this statement of law.   The principle is simply inapposite in this case where the major life activity affected is that of seeing, not working.   Likewise, the district court did not err by refusing to give the city’s requested jury instruction, which explained that an impairment preventing an individual from meeting the requirements of one particular job does not substantially limit the individual’s major life activity of working.

      B. Qualified for the position

      Next, the city argues that Doane was not qualified to perform the essential functions of the position of a sworn police officer.   The city’s expert testified that binocular vision and peripheral vision are very important in a law enforcement situation and that a person with monocular (one-eyed) vision would have a lower reaction time, rendering that person a danger to himself, fellow officers, and the public.   All of the medical experts agree that Doane’s peripheral vision is limited.

      As noted above, a plaintiff bears the burden to demonstrate not only that he is disabled, but also that he is qualified for the job.   To be a “qualified individual with a disability,” 42 U.S.C. § 12112(a) (emphasis added), an individual must satisfy “the requisite skill, experience, education and other job-related requirements of the employment position,” and “with or without reasonable accommodation,” the individual must be able to perform “the essential functions of the position.”  29 C.F.R. § 1630.2(m).

       In this case, Doane made the requisite showing that his disability does not prevent him from performing the essential functions of the job.   He testified to his specific qualifications for the job;  for instance, he has the necessary educational background, he has a valid motor vehicle license, he had been a successful police officer for many years, he has remained physically fit, and his eyesight is correctable to 20/20.   While the medical experts all agreed that Doane’s peripheral vision is limited, the medical experts also testified that Doane has made adjustments that compensate for his limited peripheral vision.   Doane demonstrated that the city’s job description does not specifically require binocular vision and that he had satisfactorily performed the essential functions of the job in spite of his disability for nine years before his termination in 1984.   A reasonable jury could have concluded that Doane could perform the essential functions of the job, and thus Doane sufficiently satisfied his burden to demonstrate that he was qualified for the job.

      The city also argues that Doane did not fulfill the procedural requirements of the Omaha Municipal Code when a current employee attempts to change job positions.   The city asserts that because Doane was attempting to transfer to a position with a higher maximum salary, he was required to go through an examination process, including a physical and mental examination and a personal interview, as any applicant seeking an original appointment.   This argument is without merit.   The Municipal Code provides that vacancies may be filled by re-employment as well as original appointment.  (See Appellants’ Supp.App. at 46.)   Memos from city officials indicate that Doane’s applications to be rehired as a police officer were treated as applications for re-employment, and thus were not subject to the procedural requirements of an original appointment.   Also, Doane specifically testified that he was not permitted to try to engage in any of the testing requirements.   We agree with the district court’s assessment:  “Due to the discrimination of the city of Omaha, the plaintiff was never given the chance to complete these standard preconditions of employment.”  (Appellant’s Adden. at 25.)   The jury had sufficient evidence before it from which it could conclude that Doane was qualified, and any technical noncompliance with the personnel code does not undermine the verdict.

      C. Remedies

      Following entry of the jury verdict, the district court held an evidentiary hearing and awarded remedies of backpay and reinstatement.   The city challenges these remedies, arguing that the remedy in this case should be limited to injunctive relief and should not include reinstatement or backpay damages.

      The ADA provides that the Title VII remedies apply to any person alleging discrimination on the basis of a disability.  42 U.S.C. § 12117(a).   Once a plaintiff proves that an unlawful motive played some part in the employment decision, see 42 U.S.C. § 2000e-2(m), the plaintiff is entitled to relief, including compensatory damages, declaratory judgment, and injunctive relief.   Id. § 2000e-5(g)(2)(B);  Pedigo v. P.A.M. Transport, Inc., 60 F.3d 1300, 1301 (8th Cir.1995).   The defendant may attempt to limit the relief by showing that it would have made the same decision, even absent consideration of the impermissible factor.   If “the employer proves that it would have made the same decision absent consideration of the employee’s disability, the remedies available are limited to a declaratory judgment, an injunction that does not include an order for reinstatement or for back pay, and some attorney’s fees and costs.”  Pedigo, 60 F.3d at 1301;  see 42 U.S.C. § 2000e-5(g)(2)(B)(i) & (ii).

       Because the city failed to prove that it would have taken the same action against Doane had it not considered his blindness in one eye, there is no basis for applying section 2000e-5(g)(2)(B) in this case.   A person who has been discriminated against is entitled to the most complete relief possible, and there is a strong presumption that persons who have been discriminated against are entitled to back pay.  King v. Staley, 849 F.2d 1143, 1144 (8th Cir.1988).   As always, the goal is to make the victim whole.   See id. (holding that the district court abused its discretion in failing to award back pay and front pay based on the salary of the position that the victim of discrimination was denied).   The district court’s discretion was not restricted in this case to imposing injunctive relief.

       In determining whether to award reinstatement, any current inability to satisfy all bona fide job requirements is a special circumstance that may render reinstatement inappropriate.  Thomlison v. City of Omaha, 63 F.3d 786, 790 (8th Cir.1995) (a Rehabilitation Act case);  see Wooten, 58 F.3d at 385 n. 2 (noting that cases interpreting the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 are instructive in ADA analysis).   Because Doane had been out of the police force for a number of years, the district court did not reinstate Doane as a sworn, on-duty police officer but ordered the city to allow him to participate in police recruit training.   This provided the city with the opportunity to train Doane and to assess anew his current fitness for the job.3  Additionally, out of an abundance of caution, the district court provided the city with an opportunity to present evidence demonstrating that Doane was not currently fit for the job.   The district court found that the city presented no evidence other than Doane’s vision disability to indicate that he was unfit for the job.

      The city now argues that the district court erred by shifting to it the burden to demonstrate that Doane was not qualified.   We note that the jury instructions indicate that Doane properly bore the initial burden to prove that he was a qualified individual with a disability, and the jury found in his favor.   That evidentiary burden concerning liability is separate, however, from the issue of whether reinstatement is an appropriate remedy.

      The district court shifted the burden on the remedial issue of whether Doane was qualified for reinstatement, relying on Thomlison v. City of Omaha.   In Thomlison, the city of Omaha was found to have discharged a fire fighter on the basis of discrimination.  63 F.3d at 789.   When considering the propriety of the district court’s order of reinstatement, we stated, “When analyzing whether a former employee is currently qualified for reinstatement, a presumption exists that the former employee remains qualified to perform the job.   The burden shifts to the employer to prove the absence of current qualifications.”  Id. The district court in the present case applied this presumption to determine that Doane was entitled to reinstatement.

       The city argues that the Thomlison presumption does not apply because this is not a wrongful discharge case.   We disagree.   The wrongful refusal to rehire situation of Doane’s case is sufficiently analogous to the wrongful discharge situation of the Thomlison case to invoke the same presumption.   The record here indicates that Doane had successfully performed this job in spite of his disability for nine years before his discharge, and his visual disability was the only reason asserted for his discharge.   Subsequent to his discharge, Doane sought but was denied reinstatement on several occasions due to his visual disability.   Doane’s final attempt at reinstatement eight years after his discharge was his first opportunity to seek reinstatement under the ADA, and the city offered no basis for refusing to hire Doane other than his visual disability.   Given these circumstances, we conclude that the district court did not err by requiring the city in this wrongful refusal to rehire case to demonstrate that Doane was not qualified for reinstatement, in accordance with the presumption set forth in Thomlison.

      The city also argues that the back pay award should be reduced in light of Doane’s alleged failure to mitigate damages.   The district court refused to consider the failure-to-mitigate issue because the city did not raise the issue at trial.   Even if the issue had been raised earlier, however, the city would not prevail.   The city asserts that Doane failed to mitigate damages because he applied only once for re-employment as a police officer and he voluntarily demoted himself to a lower paying job at one point.   To the contrary, the record, viewed in the light most favorable to Doane, indicates that Doane made several requests for re-employment as a police officer but was denied consideration each time because of his blindness in one eye.   The record also indicates that Doane left the higher-paying dispatcher job to return to the 911 communications job because it was very painful for him to be so closely aligned with police officers yet be denied the opportunity to be one again.   Thus, the record would support a finding that Doane did not fail to mitigate damages.

      For the foregoing reasons, we conclude that the district court did not abuse its discretion in fashioning an appropriate remedy for the city’s discriminatory refusal to rehire Doane.

      III.

      Accordingly, we affirm the judgment of the district court.   We also overrule the city’s motion to strike portions of the record.

      FOOTNOTES

      2.  The Honorable Thomas D. Thalken, United States Magistrate Judge for the District of Nebraska, presiding over the case by the consent of the parties.  28 U.S.C. § 636(c).

      3.  We were informed at oral argument that Doane had been sworn in as an Omaha police officer two days before.

      HANSEN, Circuit Judge.

      For the record, I think that binocular vision is important for a police officer and I would probably support its being a job requirement — but I don’t think that someone who thinks otherwise deserves immediate firing.

  36. For that RI person
    You need to get a good hold on those HALF TRUTHS and evaluate the assumptions.
    At least HALF of the information from the FPD has been LIES.

    1. @ Anonymous, since you’re SO worried about hypocrites, I BET YOU’RE REALLY UPSET about the FPD “peace officers,” who have taken an OATH to “serve and protect,” who have given the FPD such a BAD NAME!!

      Six FPD officers murdered an innocent man, Kelly Thomas;

      Officer Albert Rincon sexually abused women in the back seat of his squad car;

      Officer Vincent Mater destroyed evidence by smashing his DAR, after Dean Gochenour supposedly “committed suicide” in the Fullerton jail;

      Officer Kenton Hampton committed perjury in the Veth Mam case. Veth Mam was a victim of excessive force, malicious prosecution, false arrest, and false imprisonment at the hands of Fullerton Police Officers;

      Officer Mejia was arrested for felony grand theft for stealing an ipad from a TSA checkpoint at the Miami, Florida airport;

      April Baughman was arrested after it was discovered that she stole money from the property room over a two-year period;

      Officer Miguel Siliceo hid exculpatory evidence in the wrongful incarceration case of Emmanuel Martinez, who was locked up in the county jail for five months.

      There are more crimes that have been committed by members of the FPD, but I’m sure you’re getting the idea.

      And, I’m sure that YOU are OUTRAGED by these FPD hypocrites who enforce the law, yet they don’t believe that the same laws apply to them. I feel certain that you’ll speak out against these, and other, FPD hypocrites very soon!!

      1. Nice list. You left off Todd Major the druggie con man; Frank Nguen, whose testified against Mam; Tong who helped beat up another Mardirossian client. Hampton again for roughing up Quinonez; Thayer, accused of beating up some other hapless DTFer.

        Then there were the as yet unnamed cops who cooked up the phony “hit and run” charge against George Bushala.

  37. Breaking Mike Hillman news –

    New L.A. Dodgers security chief; I sense a new career opportunity for J.C.

    1. Michael Hillman to replace Rich Wemmer as Dodgers security chief

      Hillman is actually a year older than Wemmer and comes to his new position with a reputation as an intense hard-liner, who ran into trouble during his recent two-year stint at the Orange County Sheriff’s Department as the assistant sheriff. He was laid off from that position in 2010 after previously serving for 42 years with the LAPD.

      Hillman was accused of police-state tactics for filling an Orange County Board of Supervisors meeting with uniformed officers in anticipation of a protest and was caught mocking supervisors via text at another meeting; he later apologized to the supervisors.

      Hillman also ran afoul of Times columnist Steve Lopez, who dubbed him Iron Mike, after a photo circulated at Parker Center that showed him holding “bullhorn in one hand and a citizen’s neck in the other” at a war protest at the 2003 Academy Awards while the LAPD deputy chief.

      Lopez said one protester, 22-year-old Regina Clemente, was with a group that was trying to move from one permitted demonstration area to another when a police car raced up and Hillman bolted out.

      “He launched out of that car so fast, I don’t think the car even stopped,” said Clemente’s boyfriend, Eric Kessler.

      Wrote Lopez: She said she hadn’t done anything to single herself out, and wasn’t even waving a sign, but Hillman picked her up and dumped her to the ground.

      “I scraped my arms against a wall on the way down and hit my head on the pavement,” she said.

      …anyone see a pattern here?

      1. I look forward to the upcoming anti-Dodger jihad here.

        Actually, I really do. It will be funny and no one will get elected over it.

  38. As a qualified person with a disability, I have the greatest amount of respect for the ADA. I’ve even used it a couple of times (mainly Title II).

    But, ultimately, I think Greg is blowing hot air here. There are certain jobs that people with certain disabilities should be disqualified from. I myself am disqualified from several that are defense and public safety related. I am prohibited by federal law from owning a firearm or obtaining security clearance. Neither the ACLU or the NRA would take my case if I had a problem with this. Which I don’t and, quite frankly, they shouldn’t.

    The simple fact is that McKinley shouldn’t have hired him. There were (and are) serious doubts about his ability to safely perform a very important law enforcement job, and there is no requirement in the ADA (or elsewhere) to hire one eyed cop.

    The people of Fullerton deserved better beat cops many times over.

  39. All of the officers except Manny and Joe did not have their DARs on. It happens all the time. It is not intentional.

    The taser was used because as he said, they ran out of options…this is not something that happens all the time, obviously. Kelly kept resisting. Why? Because he was a unmedicated schizophrenic, I am not sure who knew of his mental state. I am sure if they knew, the white coats would have been called. Have you heard of someone dying from a broken nose? Recently, my young son jumped on top of my head, landing on the top of my cheek bone, it may have been fractured…it blew up into a huge black eye within hours and my face looked worse than Kelly’s. My injury was accidental because my son wanted to play with me and he wanted my attention and I am still alive. That picture of Kelly is deceiving…

    No, I am not scared of any of the officers and I have never been beaten by anyone. I do not run away from police officers. I do not resist. I listen, like every citizen should.

    1. @Friends of Jay,

      How do you know that the DARs were not left off intentionally?? Answer: You DON’T.

      The D.A. has established that Ramos KNEW Kelly Thomas and that Ramos KNEW that Kelly was mentally ill.

      Kelly did not die from a “broken nose.” Kelly Thomas died from “blunt force trauma to the head and a lack of oxygen.”

      You stated that your cheek bone “…may have been fractured…” Kelly’s cheek bone DEFINITELY WAS fractured.

      You say that you got a “…huge black eye…” Kelly’s eye was DESTROYED. If Kelly had lived; he would now be blind in his left eye.

      You say that you are “…still alive.” I guess that’s the big difference between your “injury” and Kelly’s brutal murder, isn’t it? IS Kelly Thomas still alive?? NO, HE’S DEAD!!

      You say that your “…injury was accidental…” and caused by your little son who wanted your attention. HOW can you dare to compare your little accidental injury to Kelly’s MURDER??

      Unarmed, innocent, Kelly Thomas was threatened with great bodily harm, struck with a baton, had his head bashed into the concrete curb, had his ribs broken, his lung collapsed and filled with blood, and then his chest was crushed and suffocated by the weight of six officers. They even pushed with their feet against the side of the squad car so that they could exert even MORE force, pressure and weight on top of Kelly!

      Kelly was repeatedly Tasered, knee dropped, choked, punched, kicked, beaten with clubs and bludgeoned in the face with a Taser, WHILE HELPLESS KELLY WAS BEING CRUSHED and held down by several HUGE officers.

      And, THEN Kelly was left unattended, without the officers ever giving any first aid, left unconscious and choking on his own blood, lying in a huge swimming pool of his own blood, while the officers laughed.

      You need to realize that your “friend” Jay bludgeoned and smashed in the head, face and eye of innocent, unarmed, half naked Kelly Thomas, WHILE Kelly was being pinned to the ground by other officers.

      Kelly became UNCONSCIOUS, and yet Jay still KEPT ON bludgeoning Kelly! Jay smashed Kelly’s nose and the bones deep within his skull, which is not easy to do, – it takes a great amount of force to break the ethmoid plate.

      According to a witness statement, Jay carefully and methodically aimed each of the eight massive blows to Kelly’s face and nose! Kelly had broken cheek bones, a broken nose, fractured ethmoid plate (the ethmoid bone is a bone deep within the skull that separates the nasal cavity from the brain).

      These SEVERE facial fractures caused such massive bleeding inside Kelly’s head that Kelly was choking on his own blood!

      Your “friend,” Jay, also knee dropped TWICE with his FULL BODY WEIGHT down onto Kelly’s face and throat, -CRUSHING Kelly’s windpipe! Jay did this AFTER Kelly was ALREADY UNCONSCIOUS. Jay also continued to Taser Kelly AFTER Kelly was ALREADY UNCONSCIOUS. Your “friend” Jay was in a sociopathic murderous FRENZY!

      Officer Ramos THREATENED Kelly Thomas with great bodily harm, which caused Kelly to fear for his life. Kelly had the LEGAL RIGHT to defend himself from their threats and blows! The officers NEVER tried to reasonably arrest Kelly Thomas before threatening and striking him!!

      Kelly was NEVER a threat to the officers. Kelly fought ONLY to breathe, to survive and to LIVE! Kelly struggled out of fear, terrible pain, and panic, -just as anyone would do who was also being crushed and beaten to death.

      Kelly struggled to survive just the same as a drowning man, gasping for a breath of air, would thrash around, calling for help, trying to grab onto something out of sheer desperation and panic. It would be IMPOSSIBLE NOT to fight for your life. It is INSTINCTUAL to try to survive and to breathe.

      Kelly was OUTNUMBERED and OUTWEIGHED. Kelly was UNARMED. Kelly was repeatedly begging for his life, begging for his Dad and for God to help him, and saying he was sorry.

      I don’t know how you can watch the video of Kelly being murdered and not be absolutely HORRIFIED and ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!

      You have a LOT of nerve to try to compare your little accidental injury caused your little son –to the BRUTAL torture and murder of Kelly Thomas by six OVERWEIGHT, BULLETPROOF VEST WEARING, ARMED, TRAINED, TASER WIELDING, BATON WIELDING COPS. SHAME ON YOU!

      Justice For Kelly Thomas Facebook page

      Thursday.

      In the harrowing moments before he lost consciousness Kelly Thomas cried out for his dad 31 times.
      He yelled “Help me” 26 times.
      He cried out “I’m sorry” 15 times.
      He used words like please and sir.
      He said “OK” 29 times.

      Your “friend,” Jay, has VERY serious mental health issues of his own. Jay, and his buddies in blue, brutally, mercilessly and unnecessarily, tortured and MURDERED unarmed Kelly Thomas, while Kelly BEGGED for mercy!

      FRIENDS OF JAY, I think you’d better watch the video.

    2. Actually it is common knowledge that people can die from a punch to the nose or a punch to the throat. A punch to the nose can negatively impact blood flow going to the brain or push the septum into the brain (as we saw with the Kelly Thomas beating). A punch to the throat can crush the larynx cutting off the windpipe thus cutting off all airflow to the body.

    1. Trina is Lisa. If you look at the statements made by Trina at the friends of jay website, they exhibit the same disconnect with reality as Lisa’s comments.

      It’s hard to imagine the mindset of a person who in a post dated January 2012, after he husband has been charged and on unpaid leave, is bewildered why he wasn’t informed of the Sergeant’s exam by FPD.

      Are you fucking kidding me!!!

      1. I just read the section you were talking about. Its honestly sad, so sad. Something that DID catch my eye though was the fact that some sort of board voted 5-3 to not review Cicinelli’s disability. I remember an article about that but I wish there was something that the tax payer could do about that.

  40. We have many friends and supporters of the officers, especially as the lies keep coming. More witnesses are coming forward.

    More to come.

    1. Anonymous,
      Watch the video, and imagine that it is YOUR son who is screaming for his dad and for God to help him. Imagine that it is YOUR son who is begging for mercy. Imagine that it is YOUR UNARMED, HALF NAKED son who is being crushed and suffocated, Tasered and beaten to DEATH.

    2. Anonymous :
      More witnesses are coming forward.

      You mean the “expert witnesses” paid for by the defense? Save your money. The wives will need it for their divorce attorney’s

      Fully expect to see Mrs. Manny and Mrs. Jay take the Fullerton downtown bar life by storm after their husbands are incarcerated.

  41. Wow, so Jay Cicinelli’s wife is the one who made that “Friends For Jay” website then? That explains a lot. Because I can tell you, whoever made that site is a stark, raving lunatic and a religious nut. Or a wannabe one, at least.

  42. haha…and why doesn’t she explain why all of the pictures on that site are probably over 10 years old? Maybe because any recent pictures would reveal Jay Cicinelli to be the scary, psychopathic monster he truly is.

    She’s an idiot. A blithering idiot. She actually has the nerve to say “no one died of a broken nose.” Wow. And yet, Kelly Thomas died. He didn’t die from a broken nose…he died from having 6 huge cops on top of him, crushing his chest, and choking on his own blood after her husband smash his head and face with a taser.

    I know you’re watching this. Like I said in the email, not only are you a religious nut with a psychopath for a husband who should NEVER have been a cop…but you’re a complete idiot.

    Respond to THIS, “Friends For Jay.”

    1. You are a piece of shit. No one here has an issue with Kelly’s mom, just that idiot dad of his. You have no respect for Jay’s family. Ron did the same thing. Post pictures of his son ten years ago not up to date ones where he looks like a caveman psychopath.

  43. Thanks for posting my response on the blog! Is this Tony? Travis? We know all the names. So…anything I say, you will post on the blog? Cool. Also, I noticed you posted it four times. Thanks. I appreciate you letting our side of the story out there, Normally , the blog blocks my responses. So thanks alot. Still praying for you…

    1. From reading your comment above, I believe that your fairy tale story was something about how your young son wanted some attention from Kelly Thomas.

      Your young son wanted to play with Kelly Thomas, so your young son jumped on top of Kelly’s head and he may have accidentally broken Kelly’s cheek bone…..and the picture of Kelly Thomas lying in a coma, brain dead, is deceiving….because Kelly Thomas is still alive, just like you.

      That’s quite the story; perhaps you could submit it to Grimm’s Fairy Tales.

  44. Anonymous :Lisa is NOT Trina!

    Thanks for posting my response on the blog! Is this Tony? Travis? We know all the names. So…anything I say, you will post on the blog? Cool. Also, I noticed you posted it four times. Thanks. I appreciate you letting our side of the story out there, Normally , the blog blocks my responses. So thanks alot. Still praying for you…

  45. Don’t believe everything your hear and only half of what you see and none of what you read.

    You minions have so many facts wrong and stories that are not even close to being accurate. So if you think what you put on this blog upsets these officers.. hold it down.

    You are so misinformed. But you read it in the paper?

  46. Very Interesting case of Doane v. City of Omaha as cited by Mr. Diamond.

    There are several officers that serve with only one eye. Not sure what the count is at this time but at one time it was over 50.

    So true about adapting to peripheral vision which is the ability to perceive outside one’s field of vision.

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