Tomorrow: Joe Nation Addresses Fullerton’s Pension Problems

Joe Nation of the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research will be visiting Fullerton tomorrow for a special presentation on Fullerton’s public pension and retiree medical liabilities.

Back in July I asked the city council to hire Joe Nation and the SIEPR to produce a comprehensive, independent report on Fullerton’s substantial pension debt and its projected impact on Fullerton’s financial future. While the full report won’t be available for a few more weeks, Joe has agreed to make a special presentation to the council at the Fullerton Public Library on Tuesday at 4:00 pm. The presentation will be recorded and posted online in a day or two. An agent of CalPERS will be on hand to present his viewpoint, as well.

With skyrocketing pension debt affecting cities throughout California and the nation, it’s important for Fullerton to understand where we are headed and what this city will lose if we don’t address these issues head-on. This independent analysis will be an important step towards the goal of reining in our debt and ensuring the city’s financial stability over the long haul.

109 Replies to “Tomorrow: Joe Nation Addresses Fullerton’s Pension Problems”

    1. #35 by Fullerton needs Honesty on September 17, 2012
      “Proposition 32, the “Paycheck Protection” Initiative, is on the November 6, 2012 ballot in California as an initiated state statute.[1]
      If approved, Proposition 32 will:

      Ban both corporate and union contributions to state and local candidates
      Ban contributions by government contractors to the politicians who control contracts awarded to them
      Ban automatic deductions by corporations, unions, and government of employees’ wages to be used for politics”


      Would like to know his (Joe) and Blogs opinion about this.

      1. Yeah! And what does he think of gay marriage? Cause if he’s OK with it then I don’t give a GODDAM what he thinks about a financial analysis of our looming pension debt! GODDAM IT!

    2. Yeah! Who believes anything those damn egghead says anyways? If they tell you the world’s round they’re making it up! Goddam Al Gore. GODDAM IT!

    3. I agree if Joe Nation is also a Liberal.

      “Liberals” have no honor and must lie to advance their beliefs and agenda. Most Democrats are liberals.

      While Liberals tell the truth from time to time, by mistake or otherwise, one can’t count on the truth from a liberal.

      That said, issues like “Pensions” are complex and can be supported by a mixture of lies and truths.

      Thus, if Joe is a liberal, the question is not if he will support his opinion with lies but how extensive the lies will be.

      1. Yeah! Librals all lye all the time and they give you the AIDS. This great white cuntry of ours was founded by god-fearin conservatives! God bless the KKK! GODDAM IT!

        1. Travis, the only way we are bleiving this Joe Friday guy is if he’s a card carrying member of the John Berch society. Otherwise its ALL COMMUNIST PROPOGANDA! I don’t care how many advanced degrees and analytical experience he has, if he aint RIGHT he’s a goddam Sandinista!
          GODDAM IT!

          1. Well, you make a good point. A “lie” is a statement one knows to be untrue or to knowingly create a false or misleading impression.

            This means a person must know something is untrue before it is a lie. May liberals are so dumb they beleive the stupid crap they say. Thus, many times Liberals are not liars, they are simply ignorant.

    4. Joe Nation’s position is well documented. He feels that CalPers investment assumptions are groslly overstated leading to a hugely underfunded plan. He thinks we have a serious problem with the pension plan

  1. Joe Nation “A government that increasingly responds only to the highest bidder and “leaders” who do what is expedient or popular rather than what is right. That is not the world I intend to leave to my children and the next generation.”
    Joe must be good if he practices what he preaches to the public.
    After viewing Nation’s academic and employment credentials , I am struck by the fact that Nation has primarily worked in the private sector. He knows how difficult it is, especially now, for private enterprise to flourish in our current economic depression. Damaging further capitalism’s health is the onerous taxes, licenses and regulations all inflicted by the public sector, government. Adding insult to injury, government increases taxes and further burdens capitalism with its wasteful spending on bloated salaries and pensions for civil servants. And these bloated salaries and pensions greatly compromise the needed infrastructure of municipalities. The delivery of public education, police, fire, maintenance of roads is compromised due to precious funding of these essential services diverted into padding the personal wealth of the civil servants.
    Fullerton city council person, Travis Kiger, sees our city bankrupted by fools like Flory and Bankhead who bought their votes with our taxes via Fullerton employees salaries.
    I thank you, Mr. Kiger for your efforts to restore government to its intended purpose of providing an education to level the playing field, and protecting the individual right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness(free enterprise) of our community.
    And Joe Nation continue to tell the truth about our city’s looming bankruptcy so we the good people of fullerton will be motivated to vote in true representatives of the thepeople and unseat those who see public service merely as an opportunity to increase their personal wealth.

  2. Great timing here. Why not post this an hour before he arrives? What a “scam” you’re pulling Keeger. Why is he reporting on this before the full report is ready? What a little politician you’ve become. So much for responsible government here in Fullerton.

  3. You’ve accomplished more than any of your predecessors on the city council by making the residents of Fullerton aware of the huge financial obligation that they’re saddling their own children with.

    The previous city councilman, as well as previous council candidates, have all been routinely vetted by the public employee unions BEFORE they even got into office, in order to ensure that they would always receive favorable treatment when it came time to negotiating public employee union contracts.

    The worst part about this “arrangement” was that although the candidate could count on rock solid support from these organizations when it came time for the elections, and the unions could count on rock solid support from the city councilman, who was protecting the residents or the taxpayers interest?

    That’s why we’re in this mess is because while everyone else was getting money thrown at them as if they were counterfeiting it themselves in the back room.

    Well all that confetti or “counterfeit” money is actually someday going to have to come from somewhere isn’t it?

    If it’s not us, than it’ll be our children, and our childrens children.

    Is that the future that we really want for our own flesh and blood that we strive so hard every day to protect?

    Thank you Coucilman Kiger, Whitaker , and Sebourn for bringing this issue to the forefront where it can be discussed honestly and openly in a public forum.

    1. What frightens me is how many people believe government can bring them personal wealth or dig them out of poverty with social welfare programs like the “shovel ready jobs” fiasco and the Sylendron(?) green jobs push by our current presidential administration.
      Truth is our federal reserve is for the third time printing money(quantitative easing), our nation carries a 16 trillion dollar deficit and pays half a billion dollars a year on interest on loans taken out from other countries.

      And the average poor,borderline poor, struggling working or middle class person believes government will solve their personal money problems. Our federal, state and local governments are the most financially impaired due to a protracted economic depression. Our government is poorer than most poor people living in the United States.
      However, politicians may promise anything, even though they don’t have the money or means to fulfill those promises

      1. What is even more frightening is that the only thing we can repay debt with is either a currency that comes into existence out of debt OR us (registered with the department of commerce as a commodity) and our land which through taxation we don’t even own. Van you are always spot on and people like you, Travis, Bruce and others in this town and on this blog make me proud to be part of a cerebral group of individuals that truly care about the well being and future of everyone in this town unlike our immoral greedy creepy counterparts that just cant seem to get their pathetic clutches to let go as they steal from our children. No wonder booze is so prevalent in our town.

    2. “Thank you Coucilman Kiger, Whitaker , and Sebourn for bringing this issue to the forefront where it can be discussed honestly and openly in a public forum”

      What are you thanking Sebourn for?

      He stabbed the Fullerton voters in the back when he voted to reject accepting a bid from the OC Sheriff’s Dept.

      Sebourn in not your friend.

      1. What your not saying PittBull is that it was sort of a moot point at best.

        The Fullerton Police Officers Association had already negotiated a contract with the councilman that were recalled that is contractually valid until 2014.

        Sebourn did however vote to authorize this study that Travis Kiger had suggested regarding Fullerton residents financial obligations on public employee pensions.

        1. FL, you’re missing the entire point.

          Accepting a bid from OCSD would have put Fullerton PD on notice to clean up their act. As it stands now Sebourn removed the hammer from over their heads AFTER he campaigned to consider a bid from OCSD as a cost reduction option and as an option to clean up Fullerton’s LE operations. Stop making excuses for Sebourn. It’s very unbecoming of you.

          So what if Sebourn authorized a study on pensions. It’s not a direct action against FPD. And most of his campaign targeted FPD.

          The more you circle the wagons for this clown the more I wonder about you.

          1. But, but – Sebourn was strongly supported by Robyn Nordell, that wise sage who reflexively supports anyone who says they are a republican or conservative or whatever…

          2. Short of noticing the FPD formally that they are in breach of their contract for dereliction of duty and failure to perform, the FPD will do nothing. Their $1M concession wasn’t even a gesture of good will. They need to formally discipline/demote the remaining 3 officers involved in the KellyThomas murder, and discipline along with the other officers whom have a pattern of misconduct and deceit. If not, then Hughes should be demoted or terminated.

  4. Please support my efforts to make Fullerton a “Drone Free Zone”. I am proposing our City Council institute a ban on all Drone aircraft (regardless of size) to be used by the Fullerton Police Department AND to ban all Drones from using the Fullerton Municipal Airport (no taking off or landing). Let’s stop the craziness before it comes to Fullerton. Make your town a “Drone Free Zone” too. Stay tuned and “like” if you support my initiative.

    1. Better yet, how about if we get rid of the city-owned airport which serves less than .1 of 1% of our population, and zone the land for business and/or manufacturing, and then sell the 160 acres of land so that businesses can help us create local job and boost our economy.

      As the airport sits now, it breaks even every year.

  5. The problem is also the managers who collect these pensions… For crying out loud Goodwrench use to take his boots off and watch movies on his laptop in the police car… FPD’s demise is its management!!

  6. Fullerton Police Sgt. Jeff Stuart said Hughes’ comments “will last about 30 seconds” and echo those in a recent report by independent consultant Michael Gennaco. He laid the blame for the incident solely on the officers’ shortcomings and noted that on prior occasions, officers had easily dealt with Thomas.

    1. Legal analyst Amy Stoody-King said the statement should worry two former Fullerton officers on trial for Thomas’ death.

      “If I represented either of these officers, I would be running to the District Attorney’s office and trying to work out a plea,” Stoody-King said. “This is a case in which probable cause was always an issue…the city is acknowledging that things weren’t done right.”

    2. A formal apology on behalf of the whole department might better bring healing to the city. Was it a few rouge cops , or was this tragedy a reflection of a whole departmentn complacent in protecting the rights of all memebers of our community.Or ..The other three cops just standing bye and watching the rouge cops out of control might be a better reflection of the whole department.

      1. Just like how all the so called bad cops are gone. Now everyone left is bad too. Go Sheriffs, hire all the FPD, and bring in some kick azz jail deputies. Today please.

  7. Truthseeker – I will be in attendance tonight, but I will be making this proposal at the next meeting. This request for support is a part of the initial launch of the proposal. I’ll make a thorough argument for my initiative to the council then. Thank you for your interest.

    1. I am right behind you on that issue as it is a serious concern-you bring it up and I will also support it. I look forward to hearing your proposal.

          1. Truthseeker, unfortunately I had to work and couldn’t attend this last city council meeting. I’ve asked each council member to meet with me to discuss the proposed ordinance, but have yet to meet with any of them. Thanks again for your support.

  8. Please, Ron Thomas.

    Don’t take the money and run.

    Your son deserves that FPD gets dragged through the mud in the civil court system and that the whole truth gets exposed publicly. Kelly is counting on you, dad. You are the only one left who can avenge his murder. He was screaming for you as they beat him. He still screams for you today. Do him justice.

    1. Garo will get almost 50%. Ron has to get $10 mill to make it worthwhile. If he’s a man he will donate 40% to the homeless.

  9. I can’t believe Whittakker and Keeeger have the nerve to place their campaign signs in the exact spot that Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart and Henry Pearson lost their lives to a drunk driver at Lemon and Orangethorpe at the exact corner where this tragic accident happened. Is this their way of telling the victim’s family they didn’t care for them making an appearance at the last council meeting?

    1. I don’t “see” your point?

      According to public records, newspapers, etc…the Fullerton Police Department hasn’t conducted a sobriety checkpoint since 2007, and the accident your referencing occurred in 2009.

      Those people that got up and spoke about that accident were being played by M.A.D.D. and the police unions.

        1. I actually think it’s more insulting for the victims to be played by M.A.D.D. and the F.P.O.A for political gains.

          I’m not insulting anyone, just being honest and if the truth hurts you, I suspect that you were played too.

                1. MADD needs to go scream at the bar owners, the ABC, the city staff and the elected officials that rubber stamped the development of the OC’s newest skid row in DTF.

    2. My children watched the Angel game the following day after he was killed. They had a moment of silence for Nick. The broadcast showed the massive screen at Angel Stadium with the camera panning around the stadium showing the hats off and the people bowed in respect. THE MASSIVE ALCOHOL COMPANY LOGO ON TOP OF THE SCREEN IN PLAIN VIEW eclipsed and mocked the entire thing and made me sick. My ten year old son at the time commented to me Dad why do they have that thing there after what just happened? My response to him is still evolving to this day. How many more liquor stores and bars have opened since he was killed by alcohol in our town? You complain about the location of campaign signs? Go down to the the new skid row of Orange County in DTF and watch all the bad decisions our kids make because of all the bad decisions our leaders and irresponsible business owners continue to make. Split hairs about GPS coordinates of campaign signs somewhere else. For the kids rapes, murders, sexually transmitted disease, unwanted pregnancies, criminal records in the making, liver disease, failing grades, money being wasted, and futures being squandered are all par for the course just so some liquor peddlers can afford to go and……………………………………… What a deal huh?

  10. Q. State College Boulevard, north of Orangethorpe Avenue, has deteriorated to an obstacle course of potholes, raised asphalt patches, deep grooves the length of a car, and bumper-scraping concrete dips. How about fixing this intersection and street? says:

    A. Back in June, Thuy Nguyen, a civil engineer for Fullerton, said the city would assess the pavement condition and see what could be done to improve the situation. Under further scrutiny, it appears that budget constraints play a part in delaying any improvements in the immediate future.

    “There is no street reconstruction project for the intersection of Orangethorpe and State College at this time,” says Ron Bowers, a city spokesman. “But we’ll try to have our maintenance crews maintain it the best they can.”

  11. So, I wonder if the good councilman will help lessen the city’s pension obligation by forgoing his pension and health benefits? For all his tough talk, Keeger is busy helping himself to the same bennies he derides. Hypocrite, table for one?

        1. Sellers n McPension never said they were doing the job solely for the good of Fullerton. They did it for the compensation and benefits.

  12. Travis,

    What do you have against commas? Did they ever offend you? It’s okay to use them every once in a while, especially when they are NEEDED!!

  13. Courtney Stuart had also been drinking that night, and was driving impaired. I am sure that they all were, they were probably celebrating Nick’s performance. There were no winners in that whole incident.

    1. It was widely reported that they were all headed that evening to the C&W bar named Cahoots to celebrate.

      This bar is located less than a block from the intersection where the accident occurred.

  14. The Orange County grand jury is scheduled to meet Wednesday to decide whether to indict a third police officer in connection with the beating death of Kelly Thomas, said the officer’s attorney.

    Vicki Podberesky, an attorney representing former Fullerton police officer Joe Wolfe, said she was notified “late last week” by officials with the Orange County District Attorney’s Office that they will present evidence to the grand jury. The grand jury then will decide whether to indict the former officer. The grand jury is scheduled to begin meeting Wednesday.

    “Usually a grand jury does what the D.A. wants them to do,” Podberesky said. “He (Wolfe) is prepared, if necessary, to have his day in court.”

  15. Money and beer makes the world go round.

    truthseeker :
    MADD needs to go scream at the bar owners, the ABC, the city staff and the elected officials that rubber stamped the development of the OC’s newest skid row in DTF.

  16. Great job! You are being proactive, instead of kicking the proverbial can, and giving both sides a chance to present their side of the story.


  18. I’m going for an “EASTWOOD”.
    The chair can be occupied by many people in my life with experiences that were expensive in many terms, including ex-spouse, business associates, major retailers, small businesses, and the list is on going.
    The chair is occupied by “LIARS”.
    We are confronted with bogus information and liars by a daily barrage. Most people will pass the lies by telemarketers with the comment “they have to make a livng to”. When the lies come closer to home, if by a family member, there is the opportunity of a direct confrontation and subsequent actions will probably be very expensive to all parties.

    Question: What was YOUR gain or loss from the last “LIARS” scenario in which you prticipated?

  19. Well, I guess all the hypocrites and puritans have been overcome with a good case of lock jaw.
    See ya’all.
    Remember: Liars and Cheaters…WIN.

  20. Let me guess – Nation will present that a huge unfunded liability exists, and equate that to a debt. To get there he will use a return on invesment or discount rate of about 4%, which magnifies the unfunded liablitly from the investment rate that most public sector defined benefit pension funds embrace. He will pretty much ignore all the other assumptions that must be developed in an actuarial study, such as average salary of retiring employees, age at retirement, projected life span, etc. He just may say that the recenly legislated State pension reorm will have some impact on reducing the unfunded liability, but the remainder will be huge. The CalPERS representative will present a viewpoint of why a higher investment rate of return assumption is a valid approach. The result will be stalemate between the two “professionals”. Most locals interested in this topic will embrace Nation as a tell it like it is hero, and the CalPERS person or persons as out of touch with reality.Fot this predictable outcome the city is paying Nation a consultant fee. No one’s opinions will be changed.

    1. Even at 7.75% there’s an unfunded liability. And sooner or later somebody’s got to pay it. Oh. Yeah. The taxpayer.

  21. Will Mr. Nation deliver:
    A. A good case of bad news.
    B. A bad case of good news.
    The bill is growing and the property owners in Fullerton will pay the bill.
    A prudent and fiducially responsible entity or organization would review by various means to ascertain the highest cost and highest RISK items for containment.
    Question: Where/what would this item be the citizens of Fullerton?
    Solution: Raise the Fullerton City Sales Tax by 1.0%.
    A surtax of 3% on establishments that serve alcohol and stay open past 9:00PM, BTW this would include all private clubs.

    1. Or all of the above. Just remember going OCSD doesn’t relieve the City of pension liability. Still has to pay for all the retirees and everyone up to the point they leave. Plus, they will pay a portion of the OCSD pensions as well or anything the OCSA negotiate or in the future.

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