Crime and Cover Up: The Pastor Raid Debacle Gets Ugly
FFFF has been trying to obtain the police report filed after several Fullerton police officers conducted a narcotics raid on the wrong house and held an innocent pastor and his family at gunpoint last year (read the story here).
Since the family presented a copy of the police report to the council at a public meeting, that document is now undeniably a public record. But the cops and the city administrators love to keep secrets when they blow it, and thus have deployed one ornery city attorney to block out any sunshine on this case. God forbid the public learns about the mistakes it’s own cops are making.
But here’s where it gets weird. In this email below, the city attorney justifies keeping the report secret by admitting that crimes were committed when the cops entered the wrong house with guns drawn!
After reviewing the police records in a light most favorable to the Nordells if the entry made by the officers were unlawful they may have been victims of several crimes, namely assault, trespass and a civil rights violation. If the officers did enter with guns drawn, they more than likely experienced the fear that goes accompanied with such entry. While, we are not acknowledging any of those unlawful acts occurred it does establish that they are victims of a crime. As victims of a crime they were the only party entitled to obtain the police report under Gov Code 6254 (f).
Kathya M. Oliva
Jones & Mayer
Let’s go over that again. Did our city just deny a public records request by confirming that its officers committed assault, trespass and civil rights violations? Pretty much. Admitting guilt to cover your tracks is a novel approach to criminal defense.
FFFF’s response? If there was a crime committed against the family, the incident should have been referred to the DA for prosecution. Was it? If not, covering up the report because there “may have” been a crime doesn’t hold legal water.
Our question was met with a friendly invitation to sue the city in Superior Court…which is actually a great idea. I can’t think of a better way to bring more attention to this issue.
46 Replies to “Crime and Cover Up: The Pastor Raid Debacle Gets Ugly”
Let’s see if I’ve got this right.
You can’t have a report because only the victim of a crime gets a report and a crime may have been committed. And we’re not admitting that and of course we won’t tell you that we never filed anything with the DA. So go F yourself.
It’s a sad state of affairs when some footling public employee can challenge you to sue them to cover up their malfeasance.
That’s a pretty good summary.
Let’s say your were ass raped by a large man who broke into your house. You called the police who made a report and included the details of the break in and subsequent sodomy. Would you want someone to be able to publish the details on this blog? Is that everyone’s business?
If the cops are running around carelessly breaking into innocent people’s homes and pointing guns at them, you’re damn right I want to read the details in a newspaper or on a blog. What the hell is wrong with you? Do you understand the concept of transparency?
the law is there for a reason dumb ass. you can’t arbitrarily bypass laws when YOU think it’s right. Shit for brains.
“you can’t arbitrarily bypass laws when YOU think it’s right.”
Unless you are the cops. And then you hide like cowards behind the Police Officer’s Bill of Rights.
johnny, I agree with your comment and I apologize for taking your comment out of context to make my point. windows are transparent, people are honest. oliva’s actions are directed by our police force who must be honest and forthcoming with all information because we live in a free society where the people vow to uphold the laws of our nation. we are not a police state where laws are capriciously interpreted , unreasonably enforced or ignored because it best meets the need of the police to the detriment of the people.
oops :where the people vow to uphold the laws of our nation” insert police for people but it is a significant slip as the police are first citizens of our nation that rests its power in the consent of the people.
The victims already came out in public and gave the everyone the gnarly details of the story, so your hypothetical is irrelevant.
You’ve chosen an interesting and revealing hypothetical.
Only you would know Tony.
Sue ’em! Get the police report, which is subject to the California Public Records Act.
It is the VERY reason why the public has low regard for local govenrment!
I hope the city council is made aware of this issue before they find themselves defending the indefensible.
Yeah, where’s Whitaker on this?
Yeah and Quirk-Silva, where’s she on this?
Probably trying to figure out how to look like a real leader without offending anybody.
The City and PD need to release the report(s). These are NOT personnel files, they are police reports. As a matter of transparency and sound governance our leadership, Chief Sellers and the City Council, should always operate with their “cards up” and without secrets.
I’m disappointed in Chief Sellers and his command staff for not being more forthcoming on this issue. A mistake was made and taxpayers would like to know what the PD will do to ensure this mistake does not happen again.
One thing that always pisses taxpayers off is closed-door governance.
Sebourn nobody cares what you think. If they did you could have won one of the three seats last election. You think you are an expert in this subject because you went through an academy (but couldn’t get hired). Did anyone call these personnel files. Not that I read. The Chief and his command staff were forthcoming on this issue. It seems that you are a big blowhard and puppet of Tony. Good luck blogging landman next election. have a thought for yourself.
Kathya Oliva’s response is incredibly incoherent. It’s bad enough to read this gobbledygook. It’s even worse that we have to pay for it. And worse still to get that kind of blind, self-secure arrogance.
This post should be titled “Crime and Non-punishment.”
I looked up this woman’s bio on the Jones and Mayer website. She considers herself to be a passionate human rights activist.
Too bad she ended up selling out for a few bucks to Jones and Mayer. Now she runs interference for criminal cops.
So sad when dreams die.
Her dream should have been to learn how to write a coherent sentence.
Travis, how about a post on this woman?
This situation is really disturbing. Thank you for bringing this to light. Otherwise we NEVER would have heard about it.
What is it that the family is looking for? Compensation? Apology? Prosecution? Explanation?
I have a hard time separating what it is the family wants and what this blog wants.
Have they asked you for your help Travis?
The family says they want to make sure that this never happens to another person in Fullerton ever again.
We probably have different opinions on what it would take to get that assurance.
What “this blog” wants is accountability, not confusion and cover up.
We speak for and represent nobody but ourselves.
The city attorney is right but the letter is pathetic. Police departments or cities on behalf of their police departments do not turn over police reports and shouldn’t.
Get the report from the family if they will hand it over but beware publishing it. Police reports are not like other public documents and have significant protections. The facts of an individual case do not govern whether or not a report is appropriate to publish.
Generally speaking, it would be dangerous and damaging to publish reports that could contain the names of undercover officers, private information of people that are victims, ID of witnesses etc.
I appreciate the enthusiasm but it is misplaced.
Would a law suit in Superior Court actually provide an opportunity for the Fullerton Police-Attorneys to “seal” all relevant documents (“forever”) pending some long negotiations during which a financial accomodation offered to the family might then serve to “settle” this case and CLOSE IT from any further public scrutiny?
Travis would perhaps do well to identify the individual who was so “friendly” as to invite him to “sue” rather than accomodate his public information inquiry.
Maybe the City Council could then fire that “hero” and thus begin the process of getting rid of and replacing all the Politicized Union Thugs presently employed by our city government and school system.
“Get the report from the family if they will hand it over but beware publishing it.”
This is at least on the right track. The family has the most to gain or loose by the report going public. It should be their decision and not this blog’s decision.
Even if good ol’ Tony wanted to spend money suing the city over this, the family should be consulted and their wishes honored.
That’s actually a pretty bitchin defense if you think about it. You can withhold public records under the guise of constitutional protection from self-incrimination during what is an active, ongoing investigation. Then, drag out the investigation as long as possible to buy time and let things settle down. Meanwhile, the records are tucked away and the D.A.’s office will give the all clear thumbs up and decline to press any charges against Fullerton’s finest. By the time anyone actually gets their hands on the records, if there’s even anyone around who still cares by that point, organizational policy and process improvements will have been implemented, a few wrists get slapped, and those most culpable will have been promoted.
Obviously police reports are not generally regarded as a public record in California.
But there is a special circumstance in this case. A member of the public presented the report to the city council and city staff and then spoke about it during a public meeting. There is a section of law that deals with this type of situation, and the law states unequivocally that the document becomes a public record when distributed during a public meeting.
When I brought this point up to Ms. Oliva, she essentially told me to suck it and sue.
“When I brought this point up to Ms. Oliva, she essentially told me to suck it and sue.”
I hope you take her up on it. The sue part.
Ms. Oliva’s mushmouth nonsense opinion sounded so familiar that I thought she was the attorney who got shot down by Commissioner Musante re: the law and admin’s kids riding bicycles on their own property. But, that was Elena Gerli. Two peas in a Jones-Mayer pod.
Tony, we all know you don’t want accountability. If you did, you would be telling the truth in this story instead of blowing it up for your own twisted purposes. Travis is a public official now. He’s part of the very machine you hate so much. And speaking of liars, Travis can’t stop from lying about how this has all gone down from the start to put forth his police-hating agenda.
Also, interesting that this is such a giant issue, yet not one other legitimate source has taken up this up. Not the OCR, the Observer, or any other half-baked website.
By the way, it’s dark and scary in here.
“If you did, you would be telling the truth in this story instead of blowing it up for your own twisted purposes”
Oh the truth. Are the kops keeping that under wraps as well?
How’s this for the truth:
Bad Kops break into wrong house waving guns around.
Bad Kops blow off victims.
Bad Kops get City Attorney to act as shield under the specious argument that a crime may have been committed although no complaint has been filed with DA.
Bad Kops, Bad Kops! Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?!!
P.S. Thank you for referring to us as a “legitimate source.” Unfortunately the News Tribune was covering the Daffodil Festival at the Arboretum.
Joe, I love how you get straight to the point. I just started the Joe Sipowicz fan club.
Wow, FPOA still resents Nelson for winning that election!
Once again you cast the aspersion that someone who wants police to uphold the law while also OBEYING the law must therefore “hate” cops.
You may have some sort of a complex. Seek help soon.
The consistent bloggers and commenters on this site are the ones in need of help. It’s exhausting just reading all of this crap. Having to post and comment every day – there are very few people with that kind of passion and engergy. To think they all accumulate here. Amazing. What’s even more amazing is that “they do it all for us.”
It’s scary to think that Fullerton has such a strong concentration of crazed ideologs.
If you have the real story then share it. I love when commenters come on this site and wage the distraction war with this stuff. You are welcome to post what “really happened” so rather than complain that no one has done so, please help those of us out who would like to know.
Is this sort of like I’d tell you but then I’d have to kill you? Bring it on truth teller.
Also, you really find it interesting that this issue is not being covered by the Register or the Observer? Isn’t that why you read this site? The whole purpose for reading this site is to find out about issues that the others will not cover. There is no doubt the incident happened. Why the other sources wont cover the story is their problem.
Anonymous writes: ” Its exhausting just reading all this crap”.
I’m trying to understand why a person would voluntarily read this blog and then complain about how much energy it takes.
We are all welcome to ignore the site and do something else with the time. Only a complete imbecile would voluntarily engage in activity he believes to be a waste of time.
Travis the FBI needs you to be a informant.
Please call the FBI (714) 542-8825 . Others need not apply, but we will still take any valid tips regarding Fullerton PD from FBI friends.
Travis I am a FBI informant. [email protected]
keep this e-mail please; if you want to partner up with me to keep people safe in Fullerton you know what to do.
We can never meet each other, but I will tell you when you can hear me on your TV set Channel 7 if you e-mail me and i reply thereafter. Your friend Delta Oscar Nacy.
Also, I can give u CIA radio station and state facts the air so your friends can hear your Fullerton issues. (Travis only.)
For proof e-mail me, and wait my reply. Please don’t get down on me if I get busy, as I was in thr CIA. You might already know me…
well what ever happened to this episode?