Water Main Breaks In Front of Water Reformer’s House


The irony, astonishing.  The coincidence, unnerving.  The big picture, never clearer.

If you could choose a place to break a water line, would this be at the top or bottom of the list? It’s in front of my house this morning…again!

This is just around the corner from the house that exploded yesterday and has many questioning the water systems integrity and capability when taxed with fire services. Did the sudden demand on the system place too much stress on the water lines? One would think so but I have not been able to speak with the Water System Manager, Dave Schickling, or the City Engineer, Don Hoppe, to ask.

After you and I have contributed $27-million through the water tax since 1996 to the City’s General Fund, you would think the City would have this under control.

A City of Fullerton representative contacted my wife to tell her that, because the leak is slow, they’ll be out TOMORROW, on a Saturday, to fix the line. Can you say OVERTIME? Seriously.

If the City was ever going to try to demonstrate water efficiency and commonsense responsible water management, you would think they might want to expedite a water main break. I wonder how many other breaks occurred since yesterday…

Day 2

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  1. #1 by One for the books on March 23, 2012

    RECALL!!!!!

  2. #2 by Fullerton Lover on March 23, 2012

    Greg,
    I hope that you will be offering more of these pictures and a short firsthand presentation during the next City Council meeting, as this story really needs to be told…especially the bit about the O.T. when the city is seriously short of operating revenue.

    Bye the bye, Mr. Sebourn, I have never witnessed a private citizen as dedicated to serving his city as passionately and as diligently as you do, and will be honored to cast my vote for you for City Councilman on June 5th.

    • #3 by Greg Sebourn on March 23, 2012

      Thank you. When you love something, you do what you can to make it better.

    • #4 by Robyn Nordell on March 23, 2012

      Fullerton Lover says: “This story really needs to be told…especially the bit about the O.T. when the city is seriously short of operating revenue.”

      Agreed!

      Greg- Like Fullerton Lover, I admire your passionate and diligent work on our behalf, and am looking forward to voting for you for City Council on June 5.

      A little plug for Greg Sebourn for City Council. Greg says,

      “Regarding my political philosophy, I am an activist for limited government that focuses responsibilities on core services such as public safety and infrastructure management. I believe in transparent and open governance, and that City Hall should work for us, not against us. I have found significant waste and fiscal mismanagement with Water Fund revenues which the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers’ Association has characterized as illegal.

      Read more about my efforts to combat inflated government at http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2012/03/15/fullerton-overcharged-water-users-millions-in-fees/151122/. I will continue to root out waste while addressing public safety and the infrastructure. You can learn more about my philosophy and issues I feel strongly about at http://www.GregSebourn.Blogspot.com.”

      • #5 by nipsey on March 23, 2012

        I’m all for Greg, but I’m wondering if you, Robyn Nordell, had some sort of epiphany since you are previously on record as endorsing just about every one of the sleaziest repuglican goons like Gary Miller, Ken Calvert, Ed Royce, Jim Silva etc.

        • #6 by Robyn Nordell on March 23, 2012

          Hi Nipsey –Re: whether or not I had some sort of “epiphany” on recommendations…

          Nope, no epiphany. Those who know me and have asked me for voter recommendations over the years know that I regularly make disclaimers (spoken and written) re: those recommendations. Here’s the essence of my standard disclaimer:

          I would consider some of the candidates on my recommendation list to be excellent-meaning we are on the same page 90% of the time and they are people whom I’m especially pleased to support. In many races, however, I am simply suggesting the candidate whom I believe to be the best choice among available options. (Those options could range from pretty good, to so-so, to fairly poor, depending upon the race). Further, my recommendation to vote for a particular individual should not necessarily be taken as an endorsement of his or her character.

          Examples of the “I’m pleased to support” category: Tom McClintock/Congress, Shawn Nelson/Supervisor, Bruce Whitaker and Greg Sebourn/City Council.

          Examples of the better than the other option category: Gary Miller or Ken Calvert-I didn’t recommend G Miller or Calvert in the primary of 2010. However, I felt that they were better choices than their democratic opponents in the general election of 2010.

          • #7 by nipsey on March 24, 2012

            Ah very good then, I mean since when was character a relevant metric for electing someone when you can just check if there’s an ‘R’ next to their name.

  3. #8 by Rat's Ass on March 23, 2012

    Don’t worry Greg, the rain will hide it.

  4. #9 by A Post-Apocalyptic Wasteland on March 23, 2012

    Tears of pain! Fullerton’s streets are literally crying.

  5. #10 by Erin on March 23, 2012

    Looks like the front of my house 10 months ago.

  6. #11 by Did Albert "Albey Al" Rincon sexually assault a Fullerton College student October 27th 2011? on March 23, 2012

    I see a giant tragedy happening soon because of the dilapidated infrastructure within Fullerton. I just hope it will not be another San Bruno type event.

  7. #12 by Anonymous on March 23, 2012

    Some people work on Saturday and it’s not overtime. Are you sure about that which you speak?

    • #13 by Vladimir Putin on March 23, 2012

      Rabbiskis workski on Saturdayskis.

      • #14 by merijoe on March 23, 2012

        …so do doctors and nurses, hospitals are open, no government or city office is open on weekends-they close on hot wing day why would they be open on Saturdays?

    • #15 by Some people... on March 23, 2012

      Some people work on Saturday and it’s not overtime. Are you sure about that which you speak?

      This song suits you and your geriatric chums perfectly http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8Du719jbDmE#t=159s

      • #16 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

        As an employment lawyer, I can promise you: some people work on Saturday and it’s not overtime. If you want case citations, I’ll give you my PayPal to pay for the research.

        • #17 by Me love you long time on March 23, 2012

          some people work on Saturday and it’s not overtime.

          And some people work nights. Do you even have a point or are you just grasping at straws again?

          If you want case citation, I’ll give you my PayPal to pay for the research.

          You can’t be this stupid. If these are the same type of arguments you made in court, I really feel sorry for your clients but if you have money to blow I prefer you donate it to the redcross.

          • #18 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

            No, I don’t make those arguments in court. I play up to the level of my competition.

            Now, watch closely: the commenter a few lines up doubted the assertion “Some people work on Saturday and it’s not overtime” by saying “Are you sure about that which you speak?” I said, nicely, “I can vouch that that assertion is true.” Now you tell me: did I have a point?

            Answer that and then as again if I’m stupid, super-genius.

            • #19 by Me love you long time on March 23, 2012

              Now, watch closely: the commenter a few lines up doubted the assertion “Some people work on Saturday and it’s not overtime” by saying “Are you sure about that which you speak?” I said, nicely, “I can vouch that that assertion is true.” Now you tell me: did I have a point?

              If your whole point is that people work weekends then no you don’t have point, you’re just stating the obvious.

              It would be like me saying “Most people use currency to buy food” or “Most people use their feet to walk” in response to a question of whether or not I like watching tennis.

              Answer that and then as again if I’m stupid, super-genius.

              Perhaps you just hit your head really hard and its not your fault. Either way I wouldn’t want a guy like you representing me in any capacity even if pro bono.

              Just like I wouldn’t want Jay Cincinelli covering me if I were a police officer.

              • #20 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                I try to avoid debating racist bowel-dwellers, especially those who can’t understand that vouching for a compound statement means vouching for each of its elements.

                I wouldn’t want Jay Cicinelli covering you as a police officer either, belly-crawler, because I am steeped in human kindness.

                • #21 by Me love you long time on March 23, 2012

                  I try to avoid debating racist bowel-dwellers

                  Playing the race card then running away with your tail tucked. Classic.

                  Greg, its hard to respond to you because you are so disjointed and all over the place. It’s really scary to think that you’ve represented people in court.

                • #22 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                  Oh, wow — you link to a clip of a stereotyped Vietnamese prostitute and I’m “playing the race card.”

                  Is your brain made of lint? Tony, bring me a better class of dumb-ass to argue with.

                • #23 by Anonymous on March 23, 2012

                  So, why don’t you waddle your fat disheveled ass over to Youtube for hosting the clip, Warner Bros for distributing the film and the Stanley Kubrick estate for creating it if you think that scene is so racist.

                  I’m “playing the race card.”

                  No kidding.

                • #24 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                  Because, cowardly miscreant, there was ample justification (both legal and artistic) for the film being made in the first place, where the scene in question was presented in context.

                  I can’t blame Kubrick for the fact that the scene made it more convenient for bigots who wanted to display their anti-Asian bigotry in public. Even the Bible and Shakespeare get put to ill use.

                  I am surprised, though, when decent-seeming people think that doing so just fine. We have a bigoted commenter on Orange Juice, but every time he posts something like this I try to be sure to kick him in the butt.

                  Stay anonymous, fellow poster. For you it’s a wise choice.

                • #25 by Anonymous on March 23, 2012

                  there was ample justification (both legal and artistic) for the film being made in the first place, where the scene in question was presented in context.

                  About an hour ago you were whining about how “racist” the scene is because it shows a “stereotyped Vietnamese prostitute”, yet you’re quite fine with it being mass distributed by large corporations as long as the little guy doesn’t link to it.

                  But hey, I really can’t argue with a rambling disheveled man who doesn’t have a real job like the rest of us and thinks vandalizing public property is somehow free speech.

                • #26 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                  I realize that this is complicated for someone of your apparent limited grasp and fearfulness, but I’ll give it a try.

                  The scene itself is part of literary (in the broad sense, including cinematic) work. It’s not designed to stand by itself.

                  The problem is with the use of it. Plucking it out of context and using it just to insult Asian women (or specifically to direct it at me, being married to one) of them is bigotry.

                  In this case, the first use of the name (associated with the clip) EVER on this site, if one can trust a Google search, was today, in this very post, shortly after “erin” asked my about having an Asian male-order bride (a different kind of insult to both me and my wife.) One could hypothesize from that coincidence that eris is “me love you” and may be anonymous you as well, but that would be going beyond the available evidence.

                  So, this was a custom-made deployment of the scene. I am not actually emotionally overwrought by it, as I’ve had to deal with worse a lot. I see this as a chance for people here to show that they reject that sort of think — even though I seem to hear only crickets.

                  And you’re right — you really can’t argue with me, can you, my delicate coward!

                • #27 by Anonymous on March 23, 2012

                  using it just to insult Asian women (or specifically to direct it at me, being married to one) of them is bigotry.

                  Show me where anyone used that clip to insult Asian women or specially your wife. By the way, “married to one” isn’t exactly a “PC” way to describe your wife.

                  I am not actually emotionally overwrought by it

                  I wouldn’t think you actually were. Most people who play the race card are bs’ing anyway and don’t actually have a valid or logical argument.

                  I see this as a chance for people here to show that they reject that sort of think — even though I seem to hear only crickets.

                  As far as I can see, the only one attributing that clip to (quote you) “Asian women”, is you.

                • #28 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                  Let’s go to the tape, Coward.

                  erin makes a snotty and baseless remark about my “Asian mail-order bride.”

                  Suddenly and within half an hour — and a commeter shows up for the first time on this site with a handle of a phrase used to joke about Asian prostitutes linked to a film clip featuring an aggressive Asian prostitute. (I received e-mail notice of the first comment at 12:29, the second at 12:58. erin’s reply to my first message — where she claims a “blessed life” — has the same 12:58 timestamp.)

                  So you say that don’t think that one has anything to do with the other? Fine. I can see why you’d say that — and why you dismiss complaints about race entirely.

                  Keep it up. I have more space on my hard disk.

          • #29 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

            Oh, hey — I totally failed to notice the racist video link you posted depicting an Asian prostitute. How incredibly clever and droll!

            Anyone else here at this fine establishment have an opinion on whether that’s appropriate? Come on, folks, here’s a chance for you to establish your anti-racist cred here at FFFF! (Tony, I’m sure you don’t approve — but please don’t destroy evidence!)

            • #30 by Erin on March 23, 2012

              You mean the video of Patti Lapone, singing Some People? How is that racist?

              • #31 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                Did you click on the “me love you so long time” link to Full Metal Jacket? I was referring to the commenter to whom my reply was addressed, not to what you posted.

                Any Patti Lupone link is presumably appropriate.

                • #32 by Erin on March 23, 2012

                  Actually Greg Diamond, I didn’t until you mentioned it and brought it to EVERYONE’S attention. I thought it was a pretty funny clip out of the movie. You may want to sue Stanley Kubrick while you’re at it. After all, lawyers are bottom feeders too.

                • #33 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                  Great, the clip posted in the context of your “Asian Mail-Order Bride” question is now brought to everyone’s attention, which gives everyone the chance to condemn it in that context.

                  I guess in your case, that would be “gave.”

        • #34 by Fullerton Rudy on March 23, 2012

          For a lawyer you sure have a lot of time to write nonsense about things you know nothing about.

          • #35 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

            Yeah. I’ll bet that you also wonder why people who write in Cyrillic can’t spell worth a damn.

            I’m self-employed; my time is my own. (I like working at night.)

    • #36 by Greg Sebourn on April 9, 2012

      Yes, I am 100% certain that workers received overtime pay. Each member of the Water Rate Study Ad Hoc Committee received a map showing the water breaks in question and the cost to repair them which include overtime.

      45.8 hours of overtime was paid for work done on Saturday March 24. I also found out that there was another break or repair project on Friday which had the crews tied up all day and prevented them from addressing the numerous breaks noted in this post until Saturday.

      The decision to wait until Saturday was made by a manager who, I’m guessing, is under pressure to not accrue overtime unless absolutely necessary.

      My point in this post is the addition of insult (OT) to injury (the water line fractures).

      The crews did their best to get the breaks repaired quickly and service restored.

  8. #37 by Vladimir Putin on March 23, 2012

    Niceski alligatorski asphaltski in streetski!

  9. #38 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

    We sure are lucky that the city won’t be able to spend that money anymore, aren’t we? Maybe a year from now the workers will fix the pipe near your house with fairy dust — or maybe the Austrians will tell us that the market will inevitably cause the pipe to fix itself. Meanwhile, yes — demand faster service from the city workers, competing priorities be damned!

    By the way, do you want good city workers fixing your street, or the ones who the city can still attract with much lower “total compensation”?

    • #39 by Fullerton Rudy on March 23, 2012

      Are you some kind of idiot? The 10% tax was added on and going to the general fund to pay the bloated pensions of you pals in the public workforce.

      Pitching the “we need to hire the best” horeshit that escalates compensation for everybody – good and bad?

      My advice to you is learn a single thing about a subject before opening your big, uninvited yapper.

      • #40 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

        Are you under the impression that I’m uninvited? I’m returning Tony’s favor of visits to OJB. And I enjoy reading FFFF.

        Yes, the 10% tax goes into a fund that, among other things, pays for the pensions of those very people who will people fixing the leak near Sebourn’s house. I don’t believe that government needs to hire “the best”; I believe that they need to hire the competent.

        Now if you believe that you get what you don’t pay for — such as it would be fine for the Sebourn leak to be fixed by minimum wage hires without pensions or other benefits. Once you make the concession that we actually do to some extent get what we pay for, then we get to a fact-based debate about how much is actually enough.

        That debate can be had without your unintentionally ironic question about my being an idiot, nameless stranger.

        • #41 by Fullerton Rudy on March 23, 2012

          The question about your idiocy was purely rhetorical.

          The City of Fullerton doesn’t pay for capital projects out of it’s General Fund and hasn’t for at least 30 years. Other non-General Funds and Measure M1/2 sales tax turn back are used. Water projects of course, are paid out of the Water Fund. That includes labor AND pro-rated pension costs. This means that NONE of the illegal ten percent tax goes to pay for those poor, underpaid over-worked waterworks employees you champion.

          Please don’t use the term “fact-based” anymore it really makes you look dumb.

          Dumb and ignorant is no way to go through life. Son.

          • #42 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

            Cash is fungible — sometimes improperly so, but usually effectively so as needed. And in some budgets I’ve seen, capital projects are cleverly distinguished from repair and maintenance like this. Does Fullerton do so? (If not, what was the point of your first two sentences?)

            If all of the money for repair including for labor and pension comes out of the water fund, and none of the water tax stays in the water fund, then you’re right that none of the tax goes towards these projects — PROVIDED that by “labor” you mean all associated benefits besides pension. Do you?

            If the water fund ran out of money (due to the diversion to the general fund), do you think that the City just wouldn’t fix Sebourn’s leak, or that they would find a way using non-fund resources?

            Maybe we’ll find out after the revenue is gone, eh?

    • #43 by Erin on March 23, 2012

      Greg Diamond, How’s the Asian mail order bride thing working out for you?

      • #44 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

        If you’re referring to my beautiful Asian wife, whom I met here in SoCal by chance in possibly the luckiest break of my life, it’s working out wonderfully for both of us and the kids, you miserable cowardly twit. And how are things with you, “Erin”?

        • #45 by Erin on March 23, 2012

          Greg Diamond, I have a blessed life.Thanks for asking. Miserable cowardly twit? That couldn’t be further from the truth.

          • #46 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

            No, Erin, you surely don’t have a “blessed” life — because you bear false witness (in an attempt to injure) without so much as batting an eyelash. You may have a life that inures you to your own bestial inanity and depravity, but as with the lower mammals that’s not the same as being “blessed.”

            “Miserable” need not be a subjective state. You can simply be content with being miserable.

            “Cowardly” — well, I don’t know who you are, my rancid little sugar plum, but Tony can give you my e-mail address and we can get acquainted.

            “Twit” — damn, I hate having to suppress my comeback.

            Looking forward to your reply, my pustular cupcake!

            • #47 by The Fullerton Harpoon on March 23, 2012

              Please stay on topic.

              • #48 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                OK, that was funny.

                The topic of this subthread seemed to be a racist attack on me and my family, eh?

      • #49 by truthseeker on March 23, 2012

        I have a solution-OUTSOURCE IT ALL AND KEEP IT OPEN 7 DAYS A WEEK-There are plenty of GOOD hands out there that can operate the paid for machinery that the city owns. Can anyone say hello AUSTERITY AND WELCOME BACK COMMON SENSE? Bankers hours and wasted OT be gone! This thing is a jobs program and a damn expensive one at that. Cash flow will be the cities real challenge and the city cannot print money and NOBODY in their right mind is going to go for tax increases right now except for the occupants of the Commonwealth building and their families and we outnumber them. Greg-get elected and outsource these overpriced functions and start fixin’ the joint up.

        • #50 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

          Can you show up near Sebourn’s house and let the workers know this before they start work?

          • #51 by truthseeker on March 23, 2012

            No they need to show up as they are under contract and can finish the job. With a new council we can begin to entertain the transition after a an objective analysis of the city’s fuzzy math. The days of wine and roses are nothing more than a bygone era. Look to Greece and learn. We need to get ready to get real. There are ways to land this thing softly. Are you in?

            • #52 by truthseeker on March 23, 2012

              By the way if the City workers are willing to take pay cuts and deal with reality like the other 139566 residents in this town we can all get together and have a picnic. Up until now all that I have seen is reluctance to give an inch all the while incomes for the average citizens are way down and their benefits disappear or remain virtually non-existent. Pubilc servants we are not-they are. I only see circling wagons, rising smoke and thumbing their noses at the taxpayers thus far. Someone prove me wrong and not with furlough day nonsense.

            • #53 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

              I’m for reasonable compensation — which is absolutely not the same as minimal compensation — for public employees while maintaining efficient and effective provision of services.

              So you tell me: am I in? The actual track record of outsourcing suggests that, given what I favor, I can’t be. I’ll look at examples case by case, though. (Will you?)

              • #54 by truthseeker on March 23, 2012

                Today’s market rate for the skilled labor. If we could issue currency by all means expand the jobs program. We can’t so strategic re-alignment of assets and HR is the key. City government is using a 1950s model and we are not in Kansas anymore. There is NO way out but to cut and the sooner we act the softer the long term hit will be. The commercial real estate bubble hasn’t even popped yet. Right now we cant even handle getting rid of 10% water tax. The margins are tighter than those on my molars. When that bubble pops the balance sheets will wish they were on a bed in a room at Cesar’s Palace.

                • #55 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                  You lost me there at the end.

                  What evidence do you see as relevant to assessing whether outsourcing saves money? That’s a great discussion to have.

                  One problem, as conservatives are supposed to know, is with people wanting something for nothing. Conservatives see this mote in the eye of public employees while often failing to recognize that the exact same thing can be true of taxpayers.

                  Yeah, that discussion eventually leads to the topic of unions — which, among other things, are the political counterweight to capital. So, unions have been increasingly hobbled since 1980. What has that done to the middle class?

                  The simple solutions I see celebrated here — “break unions and pay people less” — are specious. Reasonable people can debate them, but I often see a combination of hand-waving and then shock when government services suffer.

          • #56 by Fullerton Lover on March 23, 2012

            God I wish Truthseeker would do just that. In fact I think it would be VERY INTERESTING if we were to track the city workers costs of the water leak repair tomorrow through labor and material billing records, which I’m sure would be available through a public records request, and while we’re waiting around for the city workers to fit this repair job this into their schedule, we could call a plumbing contractor to come out today and give us an estimate on what they would charge Greg Sebourn himself if the plumbing contractor were to fix the leak as well as offer a warranty?
            I’d be willing to bet that the plumbing contractor would be much cheaper and offer a better value, which is why I think that the city sub-contract this work out to pre-approved vendors/contractors, or at least allow private industry to bid the job against a city entity.

            • #57 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

              Those aren’t the only things I’d look at, but it would be a good start. By all means, you should do it.

              Oh, you should also figure out what you’ll do when the contractors says “ooh, sorry, we seem to have underbid; we’ll need to hike the price if you want us to finish the job. Decide right now, because the water is still leaking!” That’s one of the joys of using outside contractors.

            • #58 by Greg Sebourn on April 9, 2012

              There would also be inspection and permit fees which I would have to pay but that the City crew does not.

              I have a map of the breaks and an overview of the costs for the repairs which includes overtime.

              Email me and I’ll send it to you. I’ll try to have copies at tonight’s meeting.

        • #59 by RS on March 23, 2012

          The problem with outsourcing is the extras that aren’t covered in the pre-layed out contract. A water main break repair would be considered an extra and would have to be payed for on top of the original contracted price, much like overtime for a city employee.

          • #60 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

            That’s one problem. Lack of concern with reputation leading to inadequate service is another. Blackmailing cities into paying more once it becomes clear that they underbid is a third. And there’s more besides. It’s not hard to find for those who aren’t intent on not knowing.

          • #61 by Greg Sebourn on April 9, 2012

            Good point, however, these service calls that the maintenance crews cannot get to because the crews are overwhelmed with service calls could be outsourced on a time & materials basis or fixed fees with certain assumptions. It is just one way to address immediate needs without extending costs incurred by hiring more staff or paying more overtime.

            The demands are real as are the costs.

          • #62 by Fullerton Female on April 9, 2012

            Wrong. All items like that would be included under a fee schedule. The cost would be understood if not exactly known.

            • #63 by Greg Sebourn on April 9, 2012

              FYI, my “Good point” was directed to RS. As I think we can agree, the costs for these repairs, whether by the City or a contractor, can be managed better.

    • #64 by merijoe on March 23, 2012

      “We sure are lucky that the city won’t be able to spend that money anymore, aren’t we?”
      huh? what? what are you referring to in this sarcastic rant?

      When those spoiled bowling pins did have access to the illegal money for years, the streets still weren’t being fixed correctly or any kind of way, or by anyone.

      • #65 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

        Fair enough, merijoe — I’m not defending the track record of the current leadership. I am pointing out that even different and better leadership would be hamstrung by too great of a loss in revenues — whereas fostering that loss in revenues often seems to be seen in these parts as an unalloyed good.

        When FFFF’s discussion has the appropriate amount of nuance in thinking about city revenues, it will be a good day.

        • #66 by merijoe on March 23, 2012

          sounds like you are.
          Illegal is illegal, the others will have to think of other ways to get the money, and Im sure a new batch will do just that and further, hamstrung or not, this way is not right.
          The others didn’t and don’t seem too motivated or creative to make a change or care.
          This illegal thing worked for them and thats all they knew, so they kept it going without questions.

          There is something else out there other than doing it illegally.

          • #67 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

            “Illegal is illegal” is a good point, and one that I’ve acknowledged over at the Juice. Your statement that “others will have to think of other ways to get the money” is good, in that the only thing I’ve seen presented on FFFF is arguing that revenue cuts should be made up in spending cuts to things like “Total Compensation.” I actually look forward to a debate about revenue alternatives rather than the “starve the beast” philosophy that says that “if only we could prevent the government from having money everything would be all right (with the possible exception of Sebourn’s house sinking into the ground.)

            • #68 by The Fullerton Harpoon on March 23, 2012

              What’s wrong with “total compensation” as an approach to labor negotiations. Even when they aren’t getting pay increases (rare), public employees’ cost to the taxpayer keeps increasing because of pension costs for unfunded liabilities, coverage of the employees’ contribution, early retirement, and over-subsidized health care premiums.

              Have you ever actually been in charge of anything? Have you ever even read a city budget? Just curious.

              • #69 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                That should be its own topic, shouldn’t it?

                Let me just say this hear: anyone who says on the one hand that we should lump together present-day and deferred compensation for employees, and on the other hand that a city like Fullerton should consider bankruptcy so as to terminate its deferred compensation obligations, is AT BEST so disingenuous that that word only begins to describe it.

                So: you agree that Fullerton can never declare bankruptcy and abrogate its pension obligations and then we can discuss the merits of “total compensation.”

                By the way, if a city is harmed by employees taking early retirement — then it shouldn’t offer them early retirement. That’s one problem solved.

                Your other complaints (employees contribution and health care premiums) are just complaints that people without much money are making too much. That’s where such arguments generally lead; that’s where the problem lies.

            • #70 by merijoe on March 23, 2012

              What I mean is that the illegal way the city has received an extra 10% to cover whatever, is not right and it needs to end, since its illegal. Sorry that cuts into things you don’t feel should be cut into, but the tax is and always has been illegal and that is not the way to fund anything.
              Too bad, so sad.
              Whether or not they have money for things that they set up wrongly in the first place with stolen money, isn’t the taxpayers problem.
              Bottom line is they obtained that money for those pet projects, illegally.

              What kind of debate for that are you looking for?
              The government still gets lots of tax money for things, the head honchos still get high salaries, the worker are paid very well from what I see advertised. So what exactly is the issue?

              • #71 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                You know, if the tax was illegal, and it looks like it was, then it should not have existed. I have no problem with that.

                Of course it’s the taxpayers’ problem. It may not be the taxpayers’ responsibility, but it’s certainly their problem.

                The issue is that I’m concerned when people are all hopped up to cut government revenue without appearing to have in any serious way thought through the implications of the “win.” I favor responsibility; that can be irresponsible.

                • #72 by merijoe on March 23, 2012

                  How is that the taxpayer’s problem? they didn’t tell the government to take another 10% from them and they didn’t tell the government to use that illegal money the way they wanted to, but like theives, the government did anyway.

                  I’m looking at it that its not the taxpayer problem like if someone takes your credit card and spends it, the banks will give you the money back

                  You sound upset in your comments that people are upset over this 10% and want it stopped and just want the services they should have been getting without it. How is that wrong for the people to expect that? Government has to get rid of things they put in place that they had no business putting in place by using stolen money to do it. That’s the governments problem and they just need to do it, just like someone’s kid who stole a DVD player from a store needs to return it to the store it was swiped from.

                  I don’t see the issue. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

                • #73 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                  If someone steal money from me, don’t you think that creates a problem for me?

                  I’m not upset at people trying to reverse the water tax given its illegality. I’m bothered by people not thinking through the consequences of doing so. Lots of illegality in our society — speeding, for example — is not enforced to the maximum possible extent because the consequences would be unbearable.

                  If I said “Fullerton should hire a bunch of minimum wage people with the authority to issue tickets and cite every speeder in the city, every day, for every violation” that would be entirely in keeping with the law — but you’d probably see that as a poor idea for its policy ramifications, right?

                  There’s nothing wrong with considering policy ramifications of enforcement, which is all that I’m doing here.

        • #74 by The Fullerton Harpoon on March 23, 2012

          Hamstrung?

          It would seem to me that when we pay somebody like Joe Felz over two hundred Gs a year we are entitled to expect some solutions to problems.

          Of course we paid Sellers over twoo hundred Gs a year to run an efficient and honest police department. How’s that working for us?

          • #75 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

            Entitled to expect some solutions? That’s a pretty low bar. Has Fullerton lacked any solutions?

            Look, if you think that Felz is overpaid, then the city can replace or renegotiate with him. If you don’t like how the people making those decisions do so, you can replace them. (I hear there’s a proposal to do that actually.)

            But it’s silly to lump all problems together under the label “problems” and decree that being problems they must be able to be solved with the resources at hand. Some problems require more resources, some yes. The pension problem is indeed a huge one: are you entitled to think that because he makes over $200K he can solve it?

            What I would hope of a public employee is that they do the best and most transparent and honest job they can with the resources at hand, not that they perform miracles.

            Felz may absolutely be vulnerable to criticism on those grounds; I’m not getting into those merits. But the Donald Trump-like idea that “I’m paying you, so you should have solved it” regardless of the scope of the problem itself is juvenile. Agreed?

            • #76 by The Fullerton Harpoon on March 23, 2012

              it’s silly to lump all problems together under the label “problems”

              Uh, yeah. Right. Whatever you say.

              • #77 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                No, by all means make your argument. “All problems are the same”?

  10. #78 by Fullerton Lover on March 23, 2012

    Greg Diamond :
    We sure are lucky that the city won’t be able to spend that money anymore, aren’t we? Maybe a year from now the workers will fix the pipe near your house with fairy dust — or maybe the Austrians will tell us that the market will inevitably cause the pipe to fix itself. Meanwhile, yes — demand faster service from the city workers, competing priorities be damned!
    By the way, do you want good city workers fixing your street, or the ones who the city can still attract with much lower “total compensation”?

    Here’s your poster boy for the argument against higher “total compensation” for Fullerton city employees.

    http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2012/chris-meyer-gets-his/

    A real honest to goodness, lean, mean, and especially efficient, cost-cutting machine eh?

    • #79 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

      Yeah, I’m not defending him either. I don’t have to do so to think that the “yeah, the city’s losing income” celebration I read here is missing something important.

      If the City workers don’t show up tomorrow, or botch the job, it may give Sebourn some insight on what happens when the beast is starved.

      • #80 by Fullerton Lover on March 23, 2012

        And what about all of the precious water that’s flowing out and being wasted until they decide to fix the leak on Saturday? Guess who’s paying for that? Look in the mirror.

        These same chowderheads that pay to run those massive fountains in front of city hall all day long, send the rest of us Fullerton residents threatening notices that highlight stiff fines that the city will impose if the city sees you running your own water outside of your house any time between 8am and 5pm daily.

        • #81 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

          Those are fair arguments. I agree that the country needs more investment in infrastructure and I don’t defend the priority of running a fountain while threatening residents with high fines.

          Those high fines, though — they’re coming! And they will be legal.

  11. #82 by I'm not a lying minister on March 23, 2012

    Mr. Diamond don’t worry about the uncalled for racist slam on your wife. The future of Fullerton by this bunch is angry and mean, no solutions only complaints and flat out lies.

    • #83 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

      The only thing that really bothers me about it is that, being in public life, I am not supposed to curse in public. Luckily, it’s a good exercise to have to come up with G-rated insults.

  12. #84 by Erin on March 23, 2012

    #13 Greg Diamond, “As an employment lawyer”

    There is a HUGE difference between a “Lawyer and Juris Doctor”

    A lawyer is someone with a license to practice law.

    A juris doctor is a law degree.

    • #85 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

      Thanks for enlightening me.

  13. #86 by Erin on March 23, 2012

  14. #87 by A Post-Apocalyptic Wasteland on March 23, 2012

    Why does every elongated paragraph from this Greg Diamond guy end with an irrelevant question?

    • #88 by Erin on March 23, 2012

      He’s a lawyer.

      • #89 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

        Worse — I’m a lawyer and a blogger.

        • #90 by I am.... on March 23, 2012

          Link please?

  15. #91 by A Post-Apocalyptic Wasteland on March 23, 2012

    Greg Diamond :
    Has Fullerton lacked any solutions?

    This is what I’m talking about. There would be no such thing as a stupid question but for the existence of Greg Diamond.

    • #92 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

      Sorry for trotting out logic at you. It must be hard.

      For future reference, if you say that A never does X, the sole refutation needed for your claim is one instance of A doing X. I believe that Tony, with his good education, can back me up on this.

      • #93 by admin on March 23, 2012

        When did I ever claim to have a good education?

        • #94 by Erin on March 23, 2012

          LoL

        • #95 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

          It shows in your erudition.

          And I know that you would have not personally posted the “me love you long time” clip, despite your lack of comment on it.

          • #96 by Anonymous on March 23, 2012

            It shows in your erudition.

            Uh oh! Looks like someone discovered a Thesaurus. I am greatly perturbed by this evolvement.

  16. #97 by streets fullerton on March 23, 2012

    These Recall No signs seem to be sprouting up along well maintained streets and $million plus homes. They might as well say…”We are the Pension club”. Not that anything is wrong with nice neighborhoods. Its just that I don’t see any of these signs along the flatlands.

  17. #98 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

    Wasn’t Greg Diamond the hack that camped with the Occupy camp?

    • #99 by Erin on March 23, 2012

      Did he? hahahaha

      • #100 by Erin on March 23, 2012

        For living in Brea, he sure does hit a lot of Orange Counties city councils.
        http://newsantaana.com/2011/11/08/live-blogging-from-the-santa-ana-councils-occupy-hearing/

        • #101 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

          Yeah. I don’t do all of my political activism on my butt in front of my computer. “hahahaha”

          • #102 by Erin on March 23, 2012

            Neither do the majority of the people who visit this blog AND live in Fullerton.

            • #103 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

              That’s one reason why, despite some political differences, I do respect the non-racists among you.

          • #104 by GD on March 23, 2012

            Yeah. I don’t do all of my political activism on my butt in front of my computer. “hahahaha”

            Wow! You are arrogant.

            • #105 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

              Quote the comment that I was replying too also.

          • #106 by admin on March 23, 2012

            Your political activism seems to be based on liberal theory and propaganda rather than even a passing acquaintance with how cities do (or don’t do) their business.

            • #107 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

              And your political activism seems to be based on libertarian theory and propaganda. So we agree maybe 50% of the time.

              • #108 by admin on March 23, 2012

                Incorrect. My bloggers and I have 67 cumulative years of doing business in Fullerton. You have zero.

                Quod erat demonstrandum.

                • #109 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                  I’m sure that you understand business well. You don’t seem to understand that that’s not the point — and that you can (and from what I see, do) still process politics through libertarian theory.

                  By the way — you should do something about the racism here. At least give people a “tut-tut,” for the sake of appearances.

    • #110 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

      No, Vernon, not only am I not a hack, but I didn’t camp there. I did represent Occupy Fullerton as a Civic Liaison, probably saving the city a lot of money compared to the first Amendment lawsuit that might have come about had I not made sure that my people acted reasonably and had I not had people in City Government willing to act reasonably on the other side. Bruce Whitaker was very complimentary towards us, by the way.

      • #111 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

        So you’re saying you would have sued the City of Fullerton on First Amendment grounds if Occupy OC wasn’t allowed to setup their camp and speak before the council?

        • #112 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

          We may well have sued the City of Fullerton if it did not respect our rights under the First Amendment. Exactly what would have triggered a suit was not determined. They would have needed to have some interesting reason to keep us from speaking at council; they could have kept us from setting up a camp, perhaps, but then there were other things we could have done within our First Amendment rights that the city probably would not have preferred. As it was, things were amicable.

          • #113 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

            So you have no problem punishing the 99% you claim to represent by suing local governments who have no money. Got it.

            As it was, the Occupy folks camping on public land cost the city more money than your group paid for the camping permit. This cements my poor opinion of your “movement” as one that was never about change, but about looking for a handout for yourselves.

            • #114 by admin on March 23, 2012

              Lol. Yes Vernon. The 99% needed to be sued for it’s own good.

              • #115 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                If the representatives of the 99% didn’t honor their legal obligations, then yes. Honestly, with your own involvement in two legitimate issues against the city, you have a problem with that?

            • #116 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

              Yeah, I take the First Amendment pretty seriously. All that legal training, you know. However, the threat of suit did not operate here to deprive the city of money; the City (admirably, in fact) acknowledged its responsibilities. As we all know, that hasn’t always happened.

              What did our camping on public land cost the city? I’m honestly curious. The grass came back quickly and fine.

              I don’t know much of anything about you other than that you post here, Vernon, so your having a poor opinion leaves me unruffled. It’s about fostering social change — something that I thought was admired here.

              • #117 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

                The reason the Occupy movement runs into opposition is because your ilk resort to violence, vandalism, and being public nuisances by camping all over the place — attempting to justify your behavior under the First Amendment.

                We’re not impressed by you.

                • #118 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                  Who is this “we” for whom you purport to speak?

                  By far most of us, and all of us so far as we can manage it, don’t resort to violence and vandalism. We in OC literally are not public nuisances because we obtain permission for overnight stays. We do what we do to bring attention to problems that people, especially in places like Orange County, prefer not to address. An extended camp is a good way to do it. (Putting gobs of money into a recall is another good way to do it, but beyond most of our means.)

                  You don’t seem to have any understanding of or appreciation for civil disobedience. I guess I should blame the school curriculum.

                  But here’s what I’d like to know. You’re in favor of all the Kelly Thomas protests, right up to the continuing ranting (a word that I don’t use negatively) at City Council meetings. Please give me your moral or ethical or whatever distinction between that and the Occupy protests in OC.

          • #119 by GD on March 23, 2012

            No one remotely tried to prevent occupy from speaking at Fullerton city council

            What the hell? Where you living under a rock during the Kelly Thomas protests?

            In your warped mind, its like nothing happened in Fullerton prior to you joining Occupy.

            • #120 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

              True, no one tried to prevent Occupy from speaking. I never claimed otherwise.

              The rest of your comment is tripe.

  18. #121 by Fullerton Resident on March 23, 2012

    Greg Diamond :Great, the clip posted in the context of your “Asian Mail-Order Bride” question is now brought to everyone’s attention, which gives everyone the chance to condemn it in that context.
    I guess in your case, that would be “gave.”

    And I do.
    Sir, I have never been a fan of yours.
    Sadly, I must agree that the comments posted, does in fact, show all of us, that persons true character.

    • #122 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

      Was that a condemnation of the use of the clip? If so, thank you and congratulations; it reflects well on you.

  19. #123 by Erin on March 23, 2012

    Oh brother. A pot calling the kettle black.

  20. #124 by Fullerton Lover on March 23, 2012

    Vernon Dozier :
    So you have no problem punishing the 99% you claim to represent by suing local governments who have no money. Got it.
    As it was, the Occupy folks camping on public land cost the city more money than your group paid for the camping permit. This cements my poor opinion of your “movement” as one that was never about change, but about looking for a handout for yourselves.

    I have my own inversely proportioned version of the Occupy movement. The difference with mine is that it only takes one heart to be part of the solution…

    Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep. I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

    • #125 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

      No parallel exists between the Occupy movement and Luke 15:7.

      The Occupy folks hate the 1% people. They’re using hatred and violence to get others to hate the 1%. This isn’t about changing the 1% folks.

      • #126 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

        Actually, we don’t hate the 1%. We hate the manipulation of the political and economic system to favor the 1% at the expense of the 99%. In many areas, this is consonant with the criticisms expressed here on FFFF.

        The lack of parallel involves the lack of repentance on the part of people who rig the game.

        And Occupy OC has been 100% non-violent and proud of it. “False witness,” eh?

        • #127 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

          There are tens of millions of people in the world who would sacrifice a limb to be a part of the 99%. That’s right. Being a part of the 99% is a dream. Instead of being grateful for even the simplest of things, like a public drinking fountain with clean water, you prove to the world just how ungrateful you are for your superior quality of life. Abominable.

          • #128 by truthseeker on March 23, 2012

            Eugenecist finance oligarchs are the problem not the 1%. Glass-Steagall needs to go back on the books and we have to get these derivatives out of their valet parking spaces over at the Treasury. It may be too late. The First Amendment is under the knife as we speak. I appreciate any and all that stand for it. We very soon will need to lock arms in defense of 1-10 very soon unless a lot of people wake up and back this off.

            • #129 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

              Agreed on Glass-Steagall and unregulated derivatives. See how hard that was?

              • #130 by truthseeker on March 23, 2012

                What about the bill of rights? You with me on that? What about the eugenics programs? Let’s get the issues out there and on the table and wake people up. Is this part of the your platform?

                • #131 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                  I’m not sure what you mean by the eugenics program.

                  Bill of Rights, fine — but unfortunately for some people that seems to mean just the Second and Tenth Amendments plus the Takings Clause.

          • #132 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

            Great. Then the 1% can be reduced closer to our level — or at least stop rigging the game to prevent the 99% from being used as fuel for their lavish fires — without doing them much harm.

            Be grateful that there’s clean water in the drinking fountain? Are you rich and clueless or just a lickspittle for the wealthy? With reasonable governance, that should not even be an issue in the U.S. (Alas, you overestimate the cleanliness of our water.)

            • #133 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

              You missed the point completely.

              • #134 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

                The point is apparently that from your viewpoint those who aren’t rich should shut up and be glad that we’re not starving Bangladeshis or something. We have clear water (not really clean as in free of pollutants, but transparent) in our drinking fountains! What peasant could want more?

  21. #135 by merijoe on March 23, 2012

    Greg Diamond :If someone steal money from me, don’t you think that creates a problem for me?
    I’m not upset at people trying to reverse the water tax given its illegality. I’m bothered by people not thinking through the consequences of doing so. Lots of illegality in our society — speeding, for example — is not enforced to the maximum possible extent because the consequences would be unbearable.
    If I said “Fullerton should hire a bunch of minimum wage people with the authority to issue tickets and cite every speeder in the city, every day, for every violation” that would be entirely in keeping with the law — but you’d probably see that as a poor idea for its policy ramifications, right?
    There’s nothing wrong with considering policy ramifications of enforcement, which is all that I’m doing here.

    Whether a lib or whatever, its not right to steal from people. period. The money that was stolen should be returned to the rightful owners.
    You dont agree with that? Yes, there will be things that you can’t have in place anymore, the money that was stolen was used for these purposes, what in your would you do in this instance?
    I don’t think anyone is saying that Government should not be given any money, but they are very wasteful and alot of it is used corruptly and not the way its supposed to be used because no one is watching and unions are calling the shots.
    What would you do?

    • #136 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

      You ignored my question.

      I would recognize the problem and figure out a way to “heal the patient” without killing it.

      Tell me: do you think that all of that money should be repaid? Immediately? With interest? What would the effect be? Do you even care about the effect? I do.

      And then comes the demonizing unions. Come with me to a presentation by unions on outsourcing, pensions, and the like and I will guarantee they will answer any question you have — because if they don’t answer you I’ll ask it myself.

      Do you like having a middle class in this country?

      • #137 by merijoe on March 23, 2012

        Im not ignoring any question, I don’t know what the question is.
        And, how would you “heal the patient”? yes, stolen anything needs to be returned, yes, yes…if someone stole $10,000 dollars from your checking acct to feed their family and pay rent, would you want that returned to you immediately or would you say oh well, that person needed that to feed their children-dont return it to me

        If the person cared about how it would end, then they wouldnt take stolen money under any circumstances in the first place.

        The stolen money should be returned and with interest yes.

        • #138 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

          My question to you was: “If I said “Fullerton should hire a bunch of minimum wage people with the authority to issue tickets and cite every speeder in the city, every day, for every violation” that would be entirely in keeping with the law — but you’d probably see that as a poor idea for its policy ramifications, right?”

          Fullerton’s City Council implemented the Water Tax long ago. I don’t know whether they had larcenous intent. Returning it to some people who paid it will be impossible. Returning it all to only present residents would be an unfair windfall. So it’s not completely uncomplicated, right? And that’s even before we get into questions of how fast to do it.

          Beyond that, there’s the question of what siphoning off that amount of money (at whatever rate) would do to the operations of the city. Your attitude to that seems to be: “I don’t care.” Do I read you correctly? I don’t want to misinterpret you.

          • #139 by merijoe on March 23, 2012

            1st off you do not need to hire a bunch of minumum wage people to give out tickets -the police nazi’s that are in place now are perfectly able to do that and that is their job-Their salaries are outrageous and should be lowered.

            The Fullerton water tax was illegal since 1997 -proposition 218 made it so and if I can’t say to a judge-hoping to get away with something I did illegally, “well, I didnt know it was illegal” neither can they.

            I didn’t say I don’t care if things are done legally but if they aren’t-then no, I don’t. Do you?

            • #140 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

              Fullerton could 10x as many of them. They could just make money from strictly enforcing all traffic regulations. And hire as many to go after building codes, etc. You want the city to make money legally? It can — but you won’t like it.

              I don’t know whether there was a plausible legal argument against the applicability of Prop 218 at the time. If there wasn’t, then that was a pretty rotten public policy.

              I can’t understand your last line.

              By the way: we stole lots of land from Native American peoples. (I don’t just mean by wars of conquest; I mean by abrogation of treaties.) I’m sure that you must want to see it all given back; my question is as to what interest rate you’d impose.

              • #141 by merijoe on March 23, 2012

                Why are you bringing up the land from the Indians argument?

                Why is 218 a “rotten public policy”? It’s airtight and protects people from being ripped off

                And thats how you would “heal the patient” by hiring lots of people to give out tickets? anything else?

                I said that if something is done legally I would care, but if something is done illegally, I wouldn’t in response to your question do I care.

                • #142 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

                  Because you believe that illegal actions should be redressed no matter what the cost, right? If things weren’t done legally, then they should be made right. Or is that just when you’re the one owed money?

                  No, I wrote that if there wasn’t a plausible legal argument against 218, then the water tax was a rotten public policy.

                  No, massive ticket writing not how I’d do it. But it would be a legal way for the city to raise revenue lost by the water tax. Would it be preferable?

  22. #143 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

    Greg Diamond :
    Who is this “we” for whom you purport to speak?
    By far most of us, and all of us so far as we can manage it, don’t resort to violence and vandalism. We in OC literally are not public nuisances because we obtain permission for overnight stays. We do what we do to bring attention to problems that people, especially in places like Orange County, prefer not to address. An extended camp is a good way to do it. (Putting gobs of money into a recall is another good way to do it, but beyond most of our means.)
    You don’t seem to have any understanding of or appreciation for civil disobedience. I guess I should blame the school curriculum.
    But here’s what I’d like to know. You’re in favor of all the Kelly Thomas protests, right up to the continuing ranting (a word that I don’t use negatively) at City Council meetings. Please give me your moral or ethical or whatever distinction between that and the Occupy protests in OC.

    You’re not a nuisance? I saw the police dealing with you guys after somebody decided to write Occupy’s message all over the sidewalk. The public sidewalk, which our tax dollars paid for.

    I am not a fan of public protesting. I’ve never attended a Kelly Thomas protest. I feel there are better ways (i.e. recall) to handle disapproval with government.

  23. #144 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

    I’d have been happy to see that guy arrested if there was a legal basis for it, actually. I don’t know whether that would be protected speech or not — I’d have to check case law — but he was a much bigger pain for me than he was to you.

    OK, then your argument is with the Kelly Thomas protesters here. Go after them! I leave you to their tender mercies.

    • #145 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

      You would have to check case law to know if vandalism to public property is protected under the First Amendment? Really?

      • #146 by Erin on March 23, 2012

        Vernon Dozier, Greg Diamond doesn’t know how to step out of his lawyer panties.

        • #147 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

          You are just a sad little waif who can’t argue with a man without attacking his sexuality, aren’t you?

          And still an anonymous coward, too! I’ll bet that if we spoke in person you’d swallow your tongue.

          • #148 by Anonymous on March 23, 2012

            HA! Erin is hardly anonymous. Did the recall-no folks put you up to this?

            I ask because it seems like you are on full attack mode but you also seem to have no clue of anything that has transpired in Fullerton within the past year.

            • #149 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

              Great! Erin, send me your e-mail address! We should get together.

              No idea of what’s happened in Fullerton? No. No idea who Erin is? Probably one of the people complaining at CC meetings, I’d guess. Did you think you were all famous or something?

              • #150 by Anonymous on March 23, 2012

                No idea of what’s happened in Fullerton? No. No idea who Erin is?

                Yes, apparently you have no clue of who anyone is which is why you called Erin an “anonymous coward” and tried to insinuate that people here aren’t politically active and have chosen to just sit on their “butt” in front of the “computer”.

                It seems like you just got hired and decided to hit the ground running here without doing a little research first.

                Did you think you were all famous or something?

                No one said anything about “fame”.

                • #151 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                  Why should I know who Erin is? I know who Tony is. I know Jane. I know who Travis, Greg S., and Barry are.

                  I don’t know who the woman who asked me about my “Asian mail-order bride” is. Should I?

                  No, I know that some people here have been active in the Kelly Thomas protests, which I salute. (Vernon Dozier evidently doesn’t like them, but that’s his problem.) I expect that not that many people have been, beyond that, though. Could be wrong.

                  “Just got hired?” Please make your paranoia more explicit. By the way, I’ve posted here before.

              • #152 by Erin on March 23, 2012

                “Great! Erin, send me your e-mail address! We should get together.”

                Greg Diamond, You will not get my email address. Duh!

                I do attend council meetings every 1st and 3rd Tuesday each month. See, unlike you, I am a concerned home owner in this city as are the majority of people who read this blog. This is a community of Fullerton residents and business owners so, having an outsider like you come on here and peddle your own agenda is pathetic. Maybe your shiny city of Brea doesn’t give you enough drama, so you visit us and toss around your Thesaurus. PLEASE go away.

                • #153 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                  I had not thought that this site was open only to Fullerton residents. Anyway, as the district I’m running in includes Fullerton, perhaps that gives me a ticket to write.

                  Yeah, I’ll bet that you’d like me gone after I didn’t drop into a traditional Democratic fetal position over either “Asian mail-order bride” or “panties” and instead came out swinging. I’m sure that must have been a shock.

                  Local Brea politics are pretty boring, actually — it seems like a reasonably well-run city — and most of my commercial activity is in Fullerton, so I prefer engagement in Fullerton politics. Plus, I appreciate much of the FFFF critique of government; even when I don’t agree, I think that it belongs in the mix of arguments to consider.

                  Unless there’s more bigotry to confront tonight, I’m happy to toddle off, or however the Anonymous coward put it.

          • #154 by Erin on March 23, 2012

            hahahahaha “attacking his sexuality”? Where did I do that… hehehehehe

            • #155 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

              I’m so sorry. I apologize. For your future reference, in this culture “panties” usually refers to feminine undergarments. If you weren’t aware of that, I have no valid complaint there.

      • #156 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

        I’d have to see whether writing in chalk on sidewalks — as you may or may not know happens a lot of places — is classified as vandalism. If it is, then it isn’t protected. If not, then it may be. Welcome to the study of law.

        But hey, you have apparently figured it out — so what is the legal definition of vandalism in California and/or Fullerton specifically? (No fair looking it up now!)

        • #157 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

          What I saw appeared to be paint / markers or something of that type. I didn’t get up close, so I can’t say for sure.

          • #158 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

            It’s chalk. If it were paint I’d have called it into the cops myself.

            • #159 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

              How do you know we were looking at the same thing?

              • #160 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

                I think that we’re talking about the same thing because (1) there was one pugnacious dolt from LA who had become famous for his wielding of the colored chalk and (2) because if it was an Occupy person doing any actual damage, as would have been the case with paint, I would have been called by either Joe Felz, someone under Dan Hughes, or possibly even a member of Council within minutes. That was part of my (unpaid) job.

                I told the police on Day 1: if Occupiers actually break the law in a way that would lead to arrest if they weren’t protesting, I did not object to arresting them. And I told the Occupiers the same day that I told the city that. The people in camp — highly idealistic — were quite law-abiding. They did consider themselves to be missionaries for a cause and comported themselves accordingly.

  24. #161 by Ms. White/Not Betty on March 23, 2012

    What happened to all that money from the American Recovery And Reinvestment Act? Has it all been spent or are they holding on to it just in case someone falls into a Fullerton sinkhole?

    • #162 by Rat's Ass on March 23, 2012

      They used that money to replace the sprinklers at the golf course. I’m not kidding.

      • #163 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

        See, now that’s bad. Anyone want to try to pin that on the 99%?

      • #165 by Fullerton Lover on April 9, 2012

        You’d think that at least one of these bozos could have objected to almost $2,000,000.00 being spent on a sprinkler system for a golf course, and said almost every one of our streets is “shovel ready”, and applied the funds to fixing our very neglected streets.

  25. #166 by truthseeker on March 23, 2012

    Greg Diamond :
    I’m not sure what you mean by the eugenics program.
    Bill of Rights, fine — but unfortunately for some people that seems to mean just the Second and Tenth Amendments plus the Takings Clause.

    Greg do some research on the past and present eugenics movement and medical tyranny, it’s programs and it’s covert operations worldwide and you will be in for an awakening. This is the greatest threat that we all face. I would be curious to see your take on that.

  26. #167 by Erin on March 23, 2012

    Greg Diamond :
    shortly after “erin” asked my about having an Asian male-order bride (a different kind of insult to both me and my wife.) One could hypothesize from that coincidence that eris is “me love you” and may be anonymous you as well, but that would be going beyond the available evidence.

    Where did you get the “male” thing? Grammatical error Greg Diamond?

    • #168 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

      It’s just a typo, sugar-puss. Funny. No, that would be a spelling error, not grammar. An example of a grammatical error would be “Grammatical error Greg Diamond?”, but that’s nowhere near as funny.

      • #169 by Erin on March 23, 2012

        Well that’s a good thing because, I could have taken that one for another 100 replies.

        • #170 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

          I’m sure you could have. Imagine if I were gay! That would be so embarrassing, right?

          • #171 by Anonymous on March 23, 2012

            Imagine if I were gay! That would be so embarrassing, right?

            Trying to make this a left vs. right, conservative vs. liberal, gay vs. straight, democrat vs. republican issue eh?

            That divide and conquer tactic has worked for political operatives, corporations and other hacks on a national level so why not try it on on a local level.

            I take it, the current plan is to co-op the recall movement and turn it into a left vs. right issue instead of a citizens vs. corrupt government issue.

            That way people will be so bogged down in petty minuta that they’ll suddenly forget to vote with common sense and instead vote based on party line.

            • #172 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

              Coward, what was the point if Erin’s “I could have taken that one for another 100 replies” and I wrote “male-order”?

              I don’t have a current “plan” on the recall movement. Parties aren’t listed on the ballot, by the way.

              So if it’s just “citizens vs. corrupt,” do you really care who’s elected so long as the recall succeeds? Didn’t think so.

          • #173 by Peaches on March 23, 2012

            Only if *you* consider it embarrassing…

            • #174 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

              I wouldn’t consider it embarrassing if I were gay. But I think that erin would see it as a point that she “could have taken that one for another 100 replies.” Do you have any idea what that could mean, unless she thinks it would be embarrassing?

  27. #175 by Fullerton Lover on March 23, 2012

    Greg Diamond :
    Those aren’t the only things I’d look at, but it would be a good start. By all means, you should do it.
    Oh, you should also figure out what you’ll do when the contractors says “ooh, sorry, we seem to have underbid; we’ll need to hike the price if you want us to finish the job. Decide right now, because the water is still leaking!” That’s one of the joys of using outside contractors.

    One of the conditions that I stipulated in my post advocating outside contractors being able to compete with city employees, is to stipulate and contractually obligate vendors beforehand that all work performed for us is under warranty.

    • #176 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

      I think that you might be interested in learning a bit about how that sort of thing works out. There’s a reason that even big corporations have many functions that could be contracted-out in house, especially when they could otherwise allow a servicer to threaten that it couldn’t finish the job at its bid price otherwise. I’ve done construction litigation; I have lots of horror stories (that unfortunately I cannot tell.)

      • #177 by Fullerton Lover on March 23, 2012

        I think your underestimating the breadth of my business knowledge, and overestimating your own.
        From what I can see by the thoughts that you share on this blog, your only talent is criticizing and finding fault with others.

        • #178 by merijoe on March 23, 2012

          …and, to add to FL’s comment, you do a mean impersonation of Thurston Howell the 3rd

          • #179 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

            Indeed, when I do one, it’s mean. Occupy movement, after all.

        • #180 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

          I think that you’ve failed to demonstrate knowledge of the historical problems with outsourcing at the municipal level. If you ever want to discuss facts and examples, rather than beating your chest, let me know.

          • #181 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

            Let me guess, the crux of the problem with municipal outsourcing is that the employees doing the work don’t belong to a union. Am I warm?

            • #182 by Greg Diamond on March 23, 2012

              No, the crux of the problem is that cities spend more money for worse service and less government accountability.

              I do believe in unions as a counterweight to corporate money, in that they bolster the middle-class, but that’s not the crux.

              • #183 by Vernon Dozier on March 23, 2012

                Since you desire facts and examples, please explain how governments spend more money for municipal outsourcing. As for government accountability, what exactly are you talking about? I need context to know what angle you’re coming from.

                • #184 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

                  I and another commenter offered some examples up above.

                  Government has a lasting relationship with its citizenry. Contractors do not. There is less motivation to serve well because there are not the same sort of continuing effects of failure. (Even a company that screws up can be renamed — see Blackwater => Xe => whatever it is now.)

              • #185 by Fred Alcazar on March 23, 2012

                Government accountability. A true oxymoron from a true moron.

                Unions as a counterweight to corporate money. What a load of horseshit. We’re talking about government workers.

              • #186 by merijoe on March 23, 2012

                The only thing unions bolster are my taxes-Unions were invented for coal miners and other assorted blue collars to ensure safety and that they were treated fairly- not for teachers and gruberment workers-the only ones who are “counterweighted” are the union bosses and those that kiss their rings.

  28. #187 by Wrong Guy on March 23, 2012

    Is Greg Diamond running for city council?

    Who is Greg Diamond?

    • #188 by Peaches on March 23, 2012

      Google Greg Diamond Orange County and/or lawyer – informative results

      • #189 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

        Careful, I know of at least four other lawyers who share my name. We do get mistaken for each other at times.

        You’ll find some of the blog sources from the search to be on the unreliable side, too.

    • #190 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

      No, I’m running for State Senate.

      • #191 by Justice for All on March 24, 2012

        Good to know. Thanks. Now I know who NOT to vote for.

        • #192 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

          I’m running against Sen. Bob Huff, one of the major proponents of redevelopment in the state and the major sponsor of the stadium proposal in the City of Industry (which I oppose.) Have fun voting for him. When you get out of the voting booth, you’ll look like the climactic melting scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

          • #193 by Justice for All on March 24, 2012

            Ohhhhh, you have definitely convinced me to vote for you now. NOT!

            • #194 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

              Yeah, I’ve really been in campaign mode here, haven’t I? Don’t break my heart.

              • #195 by Justice for All on March 24, 2012

                I couldn’t care less about breaking your heart. Like it, or not, every time you speak, or type, you are in “campaign mode.”

                • #196 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

                  Sarcasm is apparently lost on you.

                  I’ll get the votes of people here who prefer me to Huff. I won’t get the votes of those who prefer the redevelopment agency baron. I do urge you to get Huff to post here and engage you as I have, just for kicks. He too has an Asian wife, after all — maybe he too has an opinion on the use of the video.

                  Thank you for the education on what it means to campaign. I’m pretty sure that my taking offense at the comments and video in question are going to cost me votes that I care to get. If they do, well, “this above all: to thine own heart be true.”

                • #197 by Justice for All on March 25, 2012

                  As I recall, redevelopment agencies are officially no longer in business. I wish I could say the same for the Occupy groups. I just don’t believe that having another liberal lawyer, who supports anarchists, communists and unions, is the candidate whom I will be supporting in the Senate race. Far from it. I know, I just broke your heart again. Sorry.

                  P.S. I really don’t care very much about whom you have chosen to be your wife.

                • #198 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

                  Sarcasm may be lost on you but, given your handle, irony apparently isn’t.

                  If you think that Huff’s brand of cronyism represents you, so be it.

                • #199 by Justice for All on March 25, 2012

                  So, you wanted to take a swipe at my moniker “Justice for ALL” ? You FAIL. But, I also happen to know that Liberal Progressives, such as yourself, are working overtime to “progress” us all the way from socialism into communism, whose idea of “Justice for All” quickly turns into “for the good of the collective,” -which always ends in mass starvation and a bullet to the back of the head for millions of people, just as under dictators Fidel Castro and Mao Zedong. No thank you. I definitely prefer my definition of “Justice for All” MUCH more than yours.

                • #200 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

                  Damn.

                  OK, who was it that gave the game away?

                  (Note for others: “joke.”)

                • #201 by Justice for All on March 25, 2012

                  “Joke”? Hardly. More like a Freudian slip.

  29. #202 by Fullerton Lover on March 23, 2012

    Greg Diamond :
    I think that you’ve failed to demonstrate knowledge of the historical problems with outsourcing at the municipal level. If you ever want to discuss facts and examples, rather than beating your chest, let me know.

    I stand by my last statement. Your trying to feel better about yourself by disparaging others. Sad that.

    • #203 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

      “Your trying to feel better about yourself by disparaging others.”

      Uh, I think you have read this blog before. That’s a common pastime here. Anything I’m doing here is minor by local standards.

  30. #204 by Verns reality... on March 23, 2012

    Vernon Dozier :

    Greg Diamond :Who is this “we” for whom you purport to speak?By far most of us, and all of us so far as we can manage it, don’t resort to violence and vandalism. We in OC literally are not public nuisances because we obtain permission for overnight stays. We do what we do to bring attention to problems that people, especially in places like Orange County, prefer not to address. An extended camp is a good way to do it. (Putting gobs of money into a recall is another good way to do it, but beyond most of our means.)You don’t seem to have any understanding of or appreciation for civil disobedience. I guess I should blame the school curriculum.But here’s what I’d like to know. You’re in favor of all the Kelly Thomas protests, right up to the continuing ranting (a word that I don’t use negatively) at City Council meetings. Please give me your moral or ethical or whatever distinction between that and the Occupy protests in OC.

    You’re not a nuisance? I saw the police dealing with you guys after somebody decided to write Occupy’s message all over the sidewalk. The public sidewalk, which our tax dollars paid for.
    I am not a fan of public protesting. I’ve never attended a Kelly Thomas protest. I feel there are better ways (i.e. recall) to handle disapproval with government.

    But you are a fan of getting tanked and going to political events? The only time I did see you at a protest, (Im not talking about you standing out on brea Blvd hammered with some blonde skinny lady holdin some sort of insurance for all sign back in the GWB years), I thought it sickening at a peace protest you felt it necessary to wet your whistle-seriously- you kept running into the Bar…you have a wit about you that is for sure but its lost-when you get tanked- and try to speak, you alone are the main reason I left the OC peace coaliton. So slam this guy all you want, dont know him dont care, but understand you personally made several people uncomfortable enough to leave the OC peace coaliton…you must be so proud. Imagine I would rather have 17 year old die in Iraq than spend 1 minute, in any arena you are in. Imagine that.

    • #205 by Vernon Dozier on March 24, 2012

      Uhhh….OK?

      You have the wrong person.

      • #206 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

        It’s not me either; I hardly go to bars at all, let alone getting tanked there. I can’t figure out what this is about.

  31. #207 by ISPY on March 23, 2012

    Two water leaks on Valencia Dr with 15 feet of each other. The infra structure is rotten…

  32. #208 by Anonymous on March 23, 2012

    Who the fuck is Greg Diamond and why does he have nothing to do on a Friday night?

    • #209 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

      Coward: my comments were written mostly during the day. Then I did some work. Then I checked back in before bedtime. My wife and I tend to stay home Friday nights, often hanging out with our kids. Hope that’s OK with you!

      • #210 by Wrong Guy on March 24, 2012

        Fantastic Greg.

        Be sure to keep us posted on your schedule today as well. It’s Saturday. Don’t work too hard.

        • #211 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

          It’s called “responding to the substance of someone else’s comment,” WG. Don’t try it; you might hurt yourself.

  33. #212 by Vernon Dozier on March 24, 2012

    Greg Diamond :
    I and another commenter offered some examples up above.
    Government has a lasting relationship with its citizenry. Contractors do not. There is less motivation to serve well because there are not the same sort of continuing effects of failure. (Even a company that screws up can be renamed — see Blackwater => Xe => whatever it is now.)

    I can’t believe you just wrote that because it’s the weakest, most pathetic argument I’ve ever read against municipal outsourcing.

    Seriously, I’m speechless. Maybe tomorrow I’ll figure out something to say, but I’m at a total loss right now.

    • #213 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

      You’re not even making an argument, Vernon.

      A public employee who is going to come into continual contact over what he or she may hope is a long career has an interest in maintaining a decent relationship with the citizenry.

      A private employee who is doing a single job on contract is not going to have the same long-term interest.

      People can (and do, do they ever) complain about a public employee to their local government.

      If a job is outsourced, the government just responds to complaints about private employees by saying “sorry, but we can’t do much because we have a long term contract.” While a contract can theoretically be considered in breach due to poor service, this is highly uncommon.

      Yes, I think that you apparently will need time to think about it. Good night!

      • #214 by I am.... on March 24, 2012

        That’s the difference between liberals such as yourself and Republicans like me. I respect your opinion, but I would argue that government’s job is to operate minimally and cost effectively. If private sector employees can do the same job as a government employee and for less cost, have at it. Yes, government does have a responsibility to maintain a decent relationship with its citizenry, but it’s not decent if it includes unnecessary bloated spending.

  34. #215 by Fred Alcazar on March 24, 2012

    Warning: This Diamond guy will keep arguing until the room is cleared. Knowing nothing about Fullerton or even municipal government in general will not dissuade him.

    • #216 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

      That last sentence is a hypothesis that can’t be tested, but if you want to clear the room you can test the first one.

      Do I know you, by the way? You pretend to know me, or of me. Google implies that you exist only on this website.

  35. #217 by Fullerton Rudy on March 24, 2012

    Greg Diamond :
    I and another commenter offered some examples up above.
    Government has a lasting relationship with its citizenry. Contractors do not. There is less motivation to serve well because there are not the same sort of continuing effects of failure. (Even a company that screws up can be renamed — see Blackwater => Xe => whatever it is now.)

    A lasting relationship? Yeah, like a tick on a hound dog. When the tick is full (i.e. retires at 55) it drops off (i.e. retires or better yet, hires self out to agency and takes pension, too.)

    Oh yeah! All approved by former or current public employees like Bankhead and McPension or Keller or Quirk; or featherheaded liberals like you; or pathetic RINOs like Clesceri.

    Man, you really are pathetic.

    • #218 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

      Putting aside your asinine name-calling towards the end, yes, the “early retirement and hiring on as a consultant” thing is a problem. Of course, it applies to a relatively small portion of city workers, eh? That may lead us to different solutions than taking a broad-ax to the budget.

      Of course, cities (like large companies) offer early retirement for a reason — a reason that one has to understand to generate a real solution. Do you understand it, and is your broad war on public employees an appropriate response?

      • #219 by Fullerton Rudy on March 24, 2012

        The early retirement applies to ALL public workers.

        Fool.

        • #220 by Fred Alcazar on March 24, 2012

          Liberal boneheads like this Diamond jerk do what all liberal boneheads do. The deal in platitudes. Platitudes don’t run a government effectively. But they sure lead to giving away the store under the guise of some idiot philosophy like “city employees build community.”

          • #221 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

            “Liberal ‘boneheads’ deal in platitudes” is a platitude. So let’s mark your comment down for one, and you can look at mine to see how many platitudes I have. My guess is that my percentage is lower than yours, but let’s see if you can do rigorous research.

            I explained the process by which I believe (and research shows) that in-house city employees would be expected to provide better service. That explanation means that, while you could argue that it’s wrong, you can’t reasonably argue that it’s a platitude.

            (I don’t want to embarrass you, but do you actually know what a platitude is?)

        • #222 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

          The quote was “early retirement and hiring on as a consultant”. That’s what I said applies to a relatively small portion of city workers. So tell me — how many lower level workers “hire on as consultants”? My guess is that it’s few, but if you can show me I’m wrong I’ll happily acknowledge it. Meanwhile you can acknowledge that you didn’t read my entire sentence.

  36. #223 by Wrong Guy on March 24, 2012

    How long are you gonna be here Greg?

    Just wonderin’…

    • #224 by Fullerton Lover on March 24, 2012

      Makes me pine for “Reality Is”.

      • #225 by Jane H on March 24, 2012

        Be careful what you wish for. Lol

      • #226 by Anonymous on March 24, 2012

        If not one and the same person, I believe “Greg” and RI must be closely related.

        • #227 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

          I don’t post in OC blogs under pseudonyms. (If there’s an exception in the past six months, I don’t remember it.)

    • #228 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

      As long as I keep getting e-mail notifications of new posts. Is that a problem?

      I guess that I’m also hoping to see some condemnations of the racism expressed by a few commenters, which reflects poorly on the site. I’m really surprised not to have seen anything but a few defenses of it. It’s not like I haven’t sounded the alarm over it.

      The disputes we have about policy are fine, in my book; we have lots of loud disagreements of our own over at OJB. But the lack of negative response to “me love you long time” is disappointing, and I’m not the type to shut up about it.

      Given that this is a group of “not the type to shut up about it” people, I’d expect people to understand that inclination.

      • #229 by Vernon Dozier on March 24, 2012

        Did it ever occur to you that you’re making the racism worse than it was, by continually reminding people of it?

        • #230 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

          Are you familiar with the phrase “sunshine is the best disinfectant”? I believe in bringing bigotry into the sunlight and kicking the crap out of it.

          I recognize that that possibility of worsening things exists, I just don’t think it is likely here. Do you think that after my reactions more people want to post bigoted clips?

          I think that people should have (and take) the chance to condemn it. I’m really surprised — seriously, really surprised — by the unwillingness to do so here.

          • #231 by I am.... on March 24, 2012

            Well I for one wasn’t pleased reading the Asian Mail-Order bride quip. Happy?

            • #232 by I am.... on March 24, 2012

              and the “me love you long time” quip also…

            • #233 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

              “Happy” would be pushing it, but yes I am pleased to hear someone here say so — and I’m pleased for you, too.

              • #234 by I am.... on March 25, 2012

                I’m cutting it close here, but I don’t care. This is a topic that’s near and dear to my heart.

                Let me add on to what I wrote yesterday. I was very sad to see that FFFF didn’t come out and denounce the racist comments made towards you. I have dear friends who are black and I for one know that if I got a comment on here that read, “HEY, HOW’S YOUR NIGGER FRIEND DOING?!” I’d be beyond pissed. I don’t care if you’re a conservative, libertarian or anarchist-racist comments like that are uncalled for.
                Greg, even though I politically disagree with some of your comments, I respect them. They are intelligent and well formed-just as I’d expect from an attorney who’s a former college professor. It was uncalled for to insult you because you chose to engage this blog intelligently.
                Anonymous, you are right. I am leaving. I personally denounce racist comments such as those made here. I hope that others do also.

                • #235 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

                  Thank you. For what it’s worth, I hope that you won’t leave. There is a lot of intelligence and energy here, but also a lot of willingness to look past some rotten behavior. That’s just due to social norms that have grown — especially, I’d think, because people here have been dealing with serious problems of police misconduct and I expect that people don’t want to discard allies when up against powerful opponents.

                  There’s good and bad in any political faction. If you enjoy the discussion here, I hope that you’ll stay and be part of the solution. I have enough respect for Tony (whom I’ve never met or spoken to, but with whom I’ve had a fair amount of contact of the local blog where I write) to believe that he doesn’t actually like the guttersnipe crap; in that case, you’d be doing him a favor by helping rein it in.

                  You’d be welcome at Orange Juice, but I don’t want to steal an intelligent and thoughtful voice away from here.

                • #236 by I am.... on March 25, 2012

                  Thank you. I totally agree. I respect the work done by this blog for the most part for reasons I won’t say. There is a ton of intelligence behind it. If Tony, Travis or Chris didn’t like the guttersnipe crap though, they’d say so. (I think.)

                • #237 by Anonymous on March 25, 2012

                  Ooooh dropping the n-word then demanding an apology from your targets Chris, Tony and Travis. Real mature I am…. Greg.

                  You’re not a smart guy at all.

                  I already know you’re going to say something like “but but but I used quotes and I said I have dear friends who are black, so that doesn’t make me a racist!”

                  Absolutely pathetic.

                • #238 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

                  I’ll argue with a coward and I’ll argue with an imbecile but I won’t argue for long with someone who’s both. Bye!

            • #239 by I do believe I'm catching the vapors on March 24, 2012

              OMG! Racism on the internet! Hey Greg, why don’t you waddle your fat ass over to CBS and demand they apologize for racist comments on their comment page.

              Oh wait, you’re only paid to go after this site. I’m going to get a kick out of you waddling into the next city council meeting with a few occupiers and defending Pat McKinley and Dick Jones.

              • #240 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

                You’re a coward and a liar — how exciting!

                Actually, not only am I not paid to go after this site — or any other site — but I generally don’t go after this site. I often find it valuable, though the supporting cast can leave something to be desired.

                Why would I start defending McKinley and Jones, coward? I haven’t so far, and I’m supporting candidates against all three incumbents.

                You know, the fat jokes don’t really work against me, but if you’re going to make them at least make them witty.

                You can handle CBS without my help.

                • #241 by I do believe I'm catching the vapors on March 25, 2012

                  You can handle CBS without my help.

                  Typical. You refuse to go after the big boys like YouTube, Warner Bros and now CBS but you don’t have a problem trying to destroy this small blog.

                  And you call me a coward?

                  Laughable.

                • #242 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

                  Technically, I called you a coward (for flinging personal attacks from under a blanket of anonymity) and a liar.

                  I have no interest in “destroying this small blog.” As I’ve said many times now, I find it and its reportage valuable, although I don’t agree with all of the positions stated. I admire both the effort and the accomplishments reflected here. But, you guys have a problem with accepting certain offensive discussion (and then for the most part defending it.) Far from “destroying this blog,” pointing that out to you prompts you to strengthen it. Not being bigoted isn’t that hard.

          • #243 by merijoe on March 24, 2012

            In plain urban english- what exactly (and be specific) did you find racist and bigoted because I’m not sure.
            I don’t want to talk for others, but maybe there are some that don’t know this either.

            Please dont go off into: pie=MC squared x8 land either or my head might explode.
            Maybe a bullet point list will help.

            Since you are running for senate, please send your website link.

            • #244 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

              “Plain urban english?” Huh? I’m going to ignore that and answer you plainly like another human being.

              Your colleague erin greeted me in something like the thirteenth comment posted here by asking me how things with my “Asian mail-order bride” was going. I am married to an Asian woman, although one met in person by sheer luck. I had thought that this post reflected that knowledge and was insulting — presuming that Asian women married to Caucasian men must have been purchased rather than out of love — but it normally would have received a mild response.

              At the very same minute, though — either the same commenter or a very ill-timed other one cleverly posted a new handle linked to a video depicting an Asian woman as a rough and aggressive prostitute offering to let two soldiers do anything they want to her for $10 apiece. In the context of the movie where it first appeared, this was part of a story; taken out of context as it appeared here, though, this was invoking a stereotype of Asian woman with Caucasian man as a whore.

              Some people think that this sort of attack is clever. They rely on the silence of their peers and the unwillingness of their targets to fight back to allow them to get away with it. Well, sorry — I’m not putting up with it.

              I’m presuming that I can stop there, but if you want me to explain further as to why this was bigotry, then I will.

              • #245 by merijoe on March 25, 2012

                I was merely pointing out that you tend to speak a bit, oh, scientific and like you are assuming airs beyond your place in a social heirarchy and we are down to earth here, but not stupid, so kindly talk like a normal person and not like a math professor from harvard- and, BTW, watch it with the “Im going to ignore that” BS thats not friendly and it’s condescending.
                If you are going to run for Senate, you will need to be able to talk to people in a regular manner or people won’t get you.

                Ok, got it Jeeves-basically you were offended that some called your wife a mail order bride and that she was referred to as “asian”- you are a man who is defending the honor of a woman-I don’t think the comments were bigoted I just think you were offended-period.

                • #246 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

                  Thanks for the advice. I don’t look for more complicated words to use; I use the words that come to mind based on my vocabulary. I’m sorry if it seems like putting on airs; I see it as just deciding not to simplify my language for what I think is a pretty intelligent audience here. I don’t look down on people without graduate degrees — and I think I shouldn’t talk down to them either. (There’s actually a grand conservative tradition of not doing so.)

                  It goes well beyond being offended on behalf of my wife, but I’ve already stated my reasoning. Thanks (and I’m not being sarcastic) for the measured tone of your response.

                • #247 by Anonymous on March 25, 2012

                  I use the words that come to mind based on my vocabulary.

                  No, I’m pretty sure its based on your Thesaurus.

                  I’m sorry if it seems like putting on airs;

                  Oh stop, you’re making yourself blush.

                  I don’t look down on people without graduate degrees

                  Why, bless your gentle heart Lord Diamond.

                • #248 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

                  “Pretty sure” though you may be, I don’t use a thesaurus for blogging. That just says something about your standards for being “pretty sure,” coward.

                  Not looking down on people with less education isn’t doing a favor to them, it’s trying to do a favor to myself by avoiding turning into an elitist snob. That has almost nothing to do with one’s vocabulary and everything to do with one’s heart.

          • #249 by Vernon Dozier on March 24, 2012

            You’re overestimating the effects of your words. Calling out racism in the unmoderated comments section of a blog doesn’t accomplish anything. Why? Because the regulars here are used to disregarding much of the hateful comments.

            Look, I hate racism too but I don’t feel it’s my duty to prove my convictions to you. Step down from your pedestal. None of us are accountable to you.

  37. #250 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

    Sure — but the alternative is to let it fester. Refer to the history of the civil rights movement for more perspective.

    I honestly expected people to do the right thing here and say that FFFF won’t stand for that sort of crap.

    Lacking that support, all I can do personally is to make sure that engaging in racist attacks won’t be fun. So far, so good.

    I generally prefer getting along with people, but if I have to fight, I fight. Here, I believe that it was right to fight.

    • #251 by Vernon Dozier on March 24, 2012

      FFFF doesn’t endorse or condemn the comments section anyway.

      • #252 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

        Like Soylent Green, FFFF is made of people. I’m not looking for an institutional response. I’m looking for individual responses. I think that I had made that clear.

        • #253 by Vernon Dozier on March 24, 2012

          My reply posted in the wrong place. This is what I said:

          You’re overestimating the effects of your words. Calling out racism in the unmoderated comments section of a blog doesn’t accomplish anything. Why? Because the regulars here are used to disregarding much of the hateful comments.

          Look, I hate racism too but I don’t feel it’s my duty to prove my convictions to you. Step down from your pedestal. None of us are accountable to you.

          • #254 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

            You’re right — you’re not accountable to me. I’m not asserting your accountability. I’m asserting that leaving racist tripe uncommented upon reflects badly on the blog and its regulars. Perhaps its perseverance is, contrary to your earlier theory, due to people not shining a harsh light on it.

            • #255 by Anonymous on March 25, 2012

              I’m asserting that leaving racist tripe uncommented upon reflects badly on the blog and its regulars.

              It’s funny because I asked you to waddle over to CBS and demand that they openly apologize to Lord Diamond for obscenely racist comments posted on their site, your response was “You can handle CBS without my help.”.

              But… that is understandable. You are under contract to go after one target only.

              Greg, if you and your recall-no pals are trying to smear Tony Bushala or the recall movement as “racist” over one comment you personally tagged as “racist” on a site that gets about a million visitors a year and thousands of comments, you’re going to be laughed out of town.

              Sure, maybe you can fool the little old lady who is going to vote for the 3 geriatric mice anyway but you’re not going to fool anyone else with that.

              So, Greg whats your game plan now?

              Right now you’ve only stuck with race baiting and taking on people who dare question the intentions of this city.

              Are you going to be crying and moaning over the same thing a month from now?

              You’ve gotta come up with some new material, that’s what you’re being paid for.

            • #256 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

              You’re an irresponsible, cowardly, liar and anybody who believes anything you say here — including that I’m anti-recall, is an idiot.

              I wish you posted by name so that you could sue me for defamation. I’d love to have that fight. So long, coward.

        • #257 by Erin on March 24, 2012

          Get the F over yourself Greg Diamond! Instead of spending so much time on blogs, maybe you should be paying attention to the wife and kids. It’s quite obvious there are problems on the home front which shows that your life in Brea isn’t as HAPPY as you say it is. Stop while you still have time to save yourself.

          • #258 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

            That’s completely screwed up. Bye.

            • #259 by Erin on March 24, 2012

              My job is done here.

              • #260 by merijoe on March 24, 2012

                Erin, I think you blew the cooking cauliflower smell away.

                • #261 by Erin on March 24, 2012

                  Ya know merijoe, he was digging his own hole. When one has a wife and family, how do they spend so much time on a blog trying to defend themselves? I figured him out yesterday.

                • #262 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

                  merijoe, erin may not be better than that sort of thing, but I think that if you think about what you’re doing, you are.

                  erin, it took a lot less time than you think (thanks to my having subscribed to new comments on this post.) As for how much time I have to spend — when I come across something as nasty as what you (and especially the “other person” whom you claim is not you) do, then I’m going to take as much time as I want to pummel it into the ground. Opposing bigotry and cyberbullying is that important.

                  I don’t expect you to understand this, but I expect that some others reading this might. Maybe they’ll start treating you — or the “other commenter” — with a little less deference.

              • #263 by Wrong Guy on March 24, 2012

                Nice work Erin…
                Bazinga!
                It’s about time that ‘sock-puppeted’ bigot went away…
                lol) :)

              • #264 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

                “Let me tell you goodbye doesn’t mean forever.”

                Sorry, erin, been spending most of the day, among other things, with the wife and kids.

                Erin, you’re a bigot and an imbecile. I’m pretty sure that that’s not a secret to your colleagues here, but you should probably write them to see who is dishonest enough to tell you otherwise. Then make life easier for everyone and hang around only with those people.

              • #265 by Fullerton Lover on March 25, 2012

                IOU a hug Erin.

      • #266 by I am.... on March 24, 2012

        But it IS FFFF’s blog-comments section and all. Even though the free flowing comments really add to the blog, they do endorse it in a way by not making a statement against comments such as these.

        • #267 by Anonymous on March 24, 2012

          I thought you were leaving.

          • #268 by I am.... on March 24, 2012

            Sure thing. I am leaving.

  38. #269 by Citizenry on March 24, 2012

    Mr Smell Good Plumber,

    Municipal employees usually care less what the citizenry thinks of them. They definitely don’t care to treat citizens in a manner that will keep their careers, as you state.

    Municipal employees think citizenry really don’t understand what they do and how hard they work. They don’t feel threatened by citizen complaints. All they care about is making a salary, keeping their bosses happy and, if they have personal drive, do a good job.

    You see, us citizens don’t have any influence in who repairs water lines or patches streets. All we can do is vote… And employees are hired…

    We only have control over the Sr Management (City Council) and have taken action on that front.

    Whomever is hired, private or public, we don’t have an input, so what is their need to foster this “relationship” you speak of…?

    • #270 by Peaches on March 24, 2012

      RE:

      “Municipal employees usually care less what the citizenry thinks of them. They definitely don’t care to treat citizens in a manner that will keep their careers, as you state.”

      I was one of those “municipal employees” for 17 years and a county employee for 12 years (both with extensive public contact). Don’t lump everyone by your (possibly bad) experience; I, and those I worked with, had good interactions with the “citizenry”.

      I had job assignments that resulted in decisions someone in the public might not like, but I made every effort to explain the decision *and* offer suggestions to help.

      Yes, I have seen a few (!) that interacted poorly with the public and those that I saw were ultimately assigned to assignments with less public contact. They were competent, but they were not “user friendly” to the public (and at times to their fellow employees).

  39. #271 by Peaches on March 24, 2012

    Mr. Diamond, I am truly curious about something – why is this topic seemingly the only one you are commenting about?

    As an attorney, there are other topics that you could (possibly) offer cogent and relevant comments and thoughts about.

    Just askin’

    • #272 by Wrong Guy on March 24, 2012

      Mr. Diamond seems like he’s over-venting on this blog.

      I’m certain he could afford $150/hr. for a therapist, but since we’re so kind here at FFFF, we’ll let him continue having his 2-way conversations with himself.

      • #273 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

        There may be sock puppets here, WG, but I don’t write through any of them.

        That’s an odd response. You’re “so kind” here? Kind enough not to denounce bigotry, I suppose.

        • #274 by Fullerton Lover on March 24, 2012

          I always think it’s ironic that the person pointing the finger at others, always has three pointing back at themselves…

          Bigotry is the state of mind of a “bigot,” a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who exhibits intolerance and animosity toward members of a group

          Recognize anyone here Greg? Didn’t think so.

          • #275 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

            I recognize lots of people here, Lover. Do you want quotes from previous comments sections?

            As for me, if you think intolerance of bigotry is wrong, criticize away.

        • #276 by Wrong Guy on March 24, 2012

          Yes Greg, fuck bigotry!

          How’s that?

          • #277 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

            In what respect, Charlie?

            • #278 by Wrong Guy on March 24, 2012

              In respect to denouncing bigotry; stay with me.

              • #279 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

                Say it like you mean it, wrongo!

  40. #280 by Peaches on March 24, 2012

    Greg Sebourn – has a work crew arrived yet (12:08 p.m.)?

  41. #281 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

    I came in to make a minor point about Sebourn’s diary and got race-baited. My policy in such situations is not to leave until the ground is littered with teeth.

    I write on Orange Juice Blog, if you want to see my other work.

    • #282 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

      That was in reply to Peaches, a few comments above.

  42. #283 by Fullerton Lover on March 24, 2012

    Greg Diamond :
    I came in to make a minor point about Sebourn’s diary and got race-baited. My policy in such situations is not to leave until the ground is littered with teeth.
    I write on Orange Juice Blog, if you want to see my other work.

    Doesn’t sound very non-violent to me?

    • #284 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

      It’s just a metaphor. I don’t actually want you to have sex with yourself either.

  43. #285 by Erin on March 24, 2012

    Greg Diamond :
    Let’s go to the tape, Coward.
    erin makes a snotty and baseless remark about my “Asian mail-order bride.”
    Suddenly and within half an hour — and a commeter shows up for the first time on this site with a handle of a phrase used to joke about Asian prostitutes linked to a film clip featuring an aggressive Asian prostitute. (I received e-mail notice of the first comment at 12:29, the second at 12:58. erin’s reply to my first message — where she claims a “blessed life” — has the same 12:58 timestamp.)
    So you say that don’t think that one has anything to do with the other? Fine. I can see why you’d say that — and why you dismiss complaints about race entirely.
    Keep it up. I have more space on my hard disk.

    Greg, anyone who knows me on this blogs knows I ONLY post as myself. I have NEVER hidden who I am. Your accusations are baseless.

    • #286 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

      It certainly could be a coincidence that someone else made up a new handle linked to a video put to a bigoted use at the same minute that you were posting your reply. Your admins will be able to compare the IP #s. If Tony says that they’re from different IP #s (while not decisive proof), I’ll believe it — and I’ll invite you to denounce the bigot who hitchhiked on your earlier comment.

      No one who isn’t looking at your IP #s actually knows whether you’re telling the truth about not having sock puppets. Why do you think otherwise — because you say it’s true? I don’t buy that sort of logic from the Fullerton PD, and I don’t buy it from you.

  44. #287 by Peaches on March 24, 2012

    Mr. Diamond, Erin does speak as herself – whether here or at Council meetings.

    I would really like to see comments by you, from your viewpoint as an attorney (whether civil or criminal litigation doesn’t matter), on some of the other topics here.

    If you are going to be a candidate for State Senate, doing so may benefit you by allowing potential voters to gain some perspective and not rely on campaign literature (whether yours or opponents’) about you.

    • #288 by Greg Diamond on March 24, 2012

      I am already a candidate for State Senate (though I haven’t yet started serious fundraising, given that I’m assured a ballot spot in November.)

      Ask me anything you’d like about other topics covered on this blog. You can also do so on Orange Juice, where I’m on more often.

    • #289 by Anonymous on March 25, 2012

      Peaches he’s just a seat filler. He’s just there to insure that Bob Huff doesn’t stand a chance of remotely losing.

      Last thing the status quo needs is a real candidate running against Bob. Apparently they have too much invested in him.

      Greg makes a pretty living doing small political favors around OC since he’s incapable for doing anything else worthwhile.

      • #290 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

        That’s weird. Huff would otherwise be running unopposed.

        Here’s my offer, coward: check in with me the day after the November the election and we can discuss what I was trying to accomplish and how well I did with it.

        I don’t think I’ve ever gotten paid for my political activism (what you call “favors”) in OC, but like other cowards you lie willingly and almost gleefully. Normally, I’d look down on people who throw out character attacks from a cloak of anonymity, but in your case I doubt I could expect anything better. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to tell you to your hidden and cringing face.

  45. #291 by Greatness on March 24, 2012

    Just want to say thank you to the city workers for restoring our water in a timely matter. Great job!!!

  46. #292 by merijoe on March 25, 2012

    Greg Diamond :
    Technically, I called you a coward (for flinging personal attacks from under a blanket of anonymity) and a liar.
    I have no interest in “destroying this small blog.” As I’ve said many times now, I find it and its reportage valuable, although I don’t agree with all of the positions stated. I admire both the effort and the accomplishments reflected here. But, you guys have a problem with accepting certain offensive discussion (and then for the most part defending it.) Far from “destroying this blog,” pointing that out to you prompts you to strengthen it. Not being bigoted isn’t that hard.

    Greg, since you are running for senate I did a little search for your website and couldnt find it-I did manage to find a photo -is this you?

    http://www.theliberaloc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/GregDiamond_7895.jpg

    • #293 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

      That’s not my favorite photo of myself, merijoe, but it is of me.

      My website will be at http://www.gregdiamond2012.com. It’s mostly constructed but not “going live.” Again, I’m not especially concerned about the June election, though I am getting to know people across the district. My concern is November.

      • #294 by AntiCorruptionUnit on March 25, 2012

        Mr. Diamond, I have no horse in this race regarding your concerns for some of the commentary you are displeased with.

        You have alot of energy by your standing your ground on the issue at hand. You have my respect for that alone.

        FFFF has MANY excellent agenda’s. But’s it’s America and folks are going to say stuff some of us don’t like.

        When these folks who you battle with, get in your face and say what they say here, have at it.

        I hope you will direct your attention to the bigger issues like some of the crooked leaders and corruption within Fullerton.

        Your an attorney at law. I am sure when practicing your craft in court, you know not to keep beating a certain drum to long, the jury falls asleep and you lose your case.

        Your objection is duly noted by those who are reading this blog.

        Just saying!!! Nothing personal.

        • #295 by I am.... on March 25, 2012

          FFFF has MANY excellent agenda’s. But’s it’s America and folks are going to say stuff some of us don’t like.

          Absolutely, ACU. No argument there. Free speech is awesome-and angers us at times also.

          However, what is acceptable to this blog? Is it acceptable to this blog to insult different races or biracial couples? Is it acceptable to insult lifestyle choices? The list could go on and on.

          People have fought for years in this country over issues related to race. If we don’t stand up for these issues, we can’t stand up for bigger issues such as corruption.

        • #296 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

          Thanks.

          I’m not trying to win a case here. It’s probably stupid to spend more time on some of these critics, but that’s not my concern.

          I think that bullies keep on bullying — and I don’t classify most posts here in that category, but a lot of the comments from some commenters — because they think that they are making themselves look good to others. I’m happy to spoil that delusion. It’s worth a little of my time. Bullies tend to stop bullying when they get a bloody nose. (Yes, that’s just another metaphor.)

  47. #297 by admin on March 25, 2012

    Enough. We don’t have time to moderate every stupid comment on this site. We’ve never tried and are not going to start now.

    Racist comments and observations are revealed by their own idiocy.

    Please get back on topic: the water system infrastructure.

    • #298 by I am.... on March 25, 2012


      Please get back on topic: the water system infrastructure.

      Okay….

    • #299 by Greg Diamond on March 25, 2012

      I don’t believe that I asked you to “moderate” the comment. I know what a pain in the ass that is. In fact, I specifically asked you not to delete one of them, to leave a record.

      You can denounce a comment without much effort, though — or even just call it “stupid” and thus embarrass the commenter, if that’s all you want to do. Anything that takes the shine off of expressing bigotry here would be welcome.

      I accept, though, that this site is your property to manage as you will.

      • #300 by I am.... on March 25, 2012

        Let’s move on to other posts now….

        (For the record, I don’t think Tony’s a racist. I’ve spoken with him enough times to know that.)

Comments are closed.