Coming Soon: The Kelly Thomas Memorial Art Show and Concert

Friday July 6th @ PÄS Gallery 6:00-11:00 PM  Art With An Agenda. Commemorate the first anniversary of Kelly Thomas’ deadly encounter with six members of the Fullerton PD. Double Click here to download the Press Release.

And then the very next day, Saturday July 7th at the Fullerton Museum Plaza, is the 2nd Annual Kelly Thomas Memorial Concert, Clothing and Food Drive featuring one of  the best bands to ever come from the OC, The Adolescents.

Two great opportunities to show your support for reform in Fullerton without glossing over what happened last July 5th  – the murder of an innocent man.

341 Replies to “Coming Soon: The Kelly Thomas Memorial Art Show and Concert”

  1. Looking forward to both days! Also Thursday evening there will be a vigil at the memorial site (bus depot). The anniversary of the murder of Kelly Thomas.

  2. Kelly died on my birthday. True. I’ll be there for all of it, forever. I’ll be there in July.

    Justice for Kelly Thomas.

    Thanks and praises to the good and righteous people of Fullerton and beyond who are maintaining Kelly’s vigil.

    Bravo. Bravo to you. All of you. I love you guys.

    Fullerton is now our national model of what is possible when the good citizens of a good city have finally had enough rot and corruption. I am so proud of you.

    You pushed back. You pushed back, yo; you stood up and faced these assholes, and you pretty much ran them out of town. You did this.

    Like I said, BRAVO. You’re beautiful.

    Thank you.

    Justice for Kelly Thomas. I’m hoping that the monsters who smashed him to death get their fair share of due process and I hope it hurts, but to hell with them anyway. Their hell will be hell, wherever it plays out.

    I hope to see a statue of Kelly in downtown Fullerton one of these days. I do.

    I’ll see you in July. There are several of you I want to meet face to face, and shake hands.

    I’ll say it again. Bravo.

    1. My brother was chitzophrenic and died as the result of that insideous disease. The memorial concert is on his birthday July 7th. My brithday is the next day July 8th. I cant think of a better way to honor my brothers memory and celebrate his life than to spend the day honoring the life, soul, and memory of Kelly Thomas. I will be there.

  3. This is so exciting!! So bummed I will be out of town that week. Please post pics for those of us who can’t go. Justice for Kelly.

  4. Tolstoy defines art as an expression of a feeling or experience in such a way that the audience to whom the art is directed can share that feeling or experience. I’m not sure I know how to experience art that depicts police as pigs gleefuly dancing around a helpless dying man on the ground. And that picture next to the same person the object of a mothers affection. The face of this show appears to live up to its title “Art with an agenda”.This depiction advertising the show seems to incite anger in me which is against my nature as I believe peacful protest is more poweful than angry protest. I hope the show would will have a larger focus more on documentation than expressions of ridicule and outrage. There are movies that have been made about disturbing events such as nazi concentration camps. A movie can have an agenda antd leave you feeling very upset and outraged. A different make on the same movie can be made with a little more tasteful approach in a way as to only suggest notracities without having to graphicly depict everything and thereby leave somepthing to the viewer to dicern in his own way.Personaly I enjoy the older movies which seem to tastfuly express things in a powerful way without having to graphicly show every detail as if to practicaly make you into a partner in the crime by having you experience everything in every detail. Ok. I know I’ll take flac for this commentary.

    1. No flac. Just come to the art show without any of the perceptions you’ve stated. As tough as it is, we have to put our beliefs aside to see objectively. You’ve created a great critique of a postcard, now come with a clear head and see/feel how this is humanity. It’s Us versus Us. There is no such thing as Them.

  5. “Art With An Agenda will feature the original work of over 40 artists from L.A. and Orange Counties. Among the list of artists with a long resume of prior gallery showings, are Valerie Lewis, William Zdan, Stuart Perlman, Hagop Najarian, Mike Myers, Andrea Bersaglieri, muralist Rene Cardona, and the wonderfully prolific still life painter, John M. Sollom. In addition to other paintings John has submitted to the show, there are fourteen 8 x 10 oil paintings depicting the unnecessary escalation of the encounter between the Police and Kelly Thomas at the Fullerton Transportation Center. This encounter ended 45 minutes later, the last 10 minutes of which, was the brutal beating that put Kelly into the coma, and five days later took his life. John’s painted panels increase with their intensity until we see all six officers standing around the body and a pool of Kelly’s blood. John Sollom has loosely painted the images off of the city surveillance video in the familiar gray scale of surveillance footage. With this, Sollom has created a latter day Stations of the Cross. John’s work was created immediately after he watched the tape for the first time, and this series of paintings be one of the more emotionally charged pieces included in this exhibit. There will be paintings which depict the truth, and the truth in this instance is uncomfortable. These works will, however, be juxtaposed with beautiful and sentimental paintings, like a teenage
    portrait of Kelly before he got sick, which captured the spirit of Kelly perfectly. One portrait in particular which is being submitted by Valerie Lewis, a working artist at the Magoski art colony, is exceptional in its poetic reflection of Kelly. When I recently let Kelly’s mother, Cathy Williams Thomas, look at a picture of the painting on my phone, it brought tears to her eyes.”

    Good art and good movies should make you feel and think. It appears to me that this art exhibit will depict the life and the brutal death of Kelly Thomas; I believe that appropriate visceral reactions would be love, empathy, horror, anger, disgust and extreme sadness.

    Sometimes, brutal honesty is needed in order to portray the whole truth. If the art work only depicted the outside of the beautiful FPD building, or depicted the officers sitting at their desks, I don’t believe that the art would be nearly as meaningful, nor as impactful in bringing attention to the unjust and violent death of Kelly Thomas, who was so brutally deprived of his civil rights.

    Just as some people cannot bring themselves to enter inside the walls of the Nazi concentration camps because of the horrific truths that they will inevitably face inside, perhaps you will not be able to view this art.

    Unfortunately for the late Kelly Thomas, this is not just art; this was his reality. You can choose to turn your head and look away; however, the truth remains. The first step to changing something is to acknowledge that there is a problem.

    I believe that this artwork is an effort to get people to acknowledge the brutality and to not minimize it. I believe it also makes a huge statement that the life and death of Kelly Thomas must not be marginalized, nor ignored! Kelly Thomas was a living human being, a son, a brother, a friend, a person with worth, a person with feelings and a person with civil rights.

    It seems to me that this art exhibit will be a tribute to the life of Kelly Thomas, and a tribute to all those who seek justice for his brutal, unnecessary and unlawful death. Kelly Thomas must not, and will not, be forgotten. I appreciate the efforts of the artists who cared enough to put their hearts and talents into this important work.

    1. COME ONE AND COME ALL. CONTRIBUTE TO “KTMF”. THE MORE YOU GIVE, THE MORE MY POCKETS KEEP GETTING BIGGER!!, RON THOMAS.

      1. Thanks for the invite! I’ll see you there!! Be sure to bring donations of clothing and food for the homeless.

      2. JD speaking of art, what do you think of the murals at the Denver airport? Is that your style?

      3. That’s right. RT keeps track of every penny that goes into his pocket/KTMF (same thing). But no one dares to question him on that.

      1. @John Doe, Kelly Thomas, who was mercilessly tortured and murdered by the FPD, suffered from a debilitating mental illness called schizophrenia; why don’t you tell us all what your excuse is for your exceedingly uncouth behavior.

                1. You call the Recall a war? It was more like a popcorn fart. You succeeded in making Bushala a big fish in a little pond. Big deal. It’s all going to come back to bite you in the ass.

          1. @John Doe, Your extreme ignorance is showing, as usual. You are completely clueless about mental illness.

            1. It looks like you were too Ron. You gave up on Kelly and you hadn’t seen him in ten years. Now you have all the time in the world to get justice for Kelly. But, God is watching you, along with Kelly.

              1. @John Doe, You are delusional; I am not Ron.

                When your son/daughter is tortured, suffocated, bludgeoned to a pulp beyond recognition, and murdered by the FPD, I’ll try to remind you that YOU WILL be responsible for the death of your loved one. YOU WILL be to blame, because you are condoning and excusing police brutality and murder every day on this blog.

                You feel so sorry for your honey bunny Jay, and for yourself, that you refuse to see, or to admit the evil that Jay, and the others have done to another man. Jay and his buddies are murderers.

                Just remember: What goes around, -comes around. Karma does not forget. What you put out there into the universe comes back to you ten fold. I think you, and Jay, and the others should all start preparing yourselves for some seriously bad Karma.

                1. Ron did not bludgeon Kelly’s face with the butt end of a Taser eight times, pulverize Kelly’s facial bones and destroy his left eye, Tazer Kelly repeatedly, do 2 full-body weight knee drops onto Kelly’s face and throat, -thereby crushing Kelly’s throat, break Kelly’s ribs, collapse Kelly’s lung, dogpile onto Kelly, choke Kelly, crush Kelly’s thorax, suffocate Kelly Thomas, (and ALL of this took place while Kelly was begging for mercy!!) and then leave unconscious Kelly, unattended, to choke and die in a huge pool of blood, while the gang of FPD stood around laughing; however, YOUR honey bunnies Jay, Ramos and Wolfe DID do that, with help from their FPD buddies.

                  And, YOU, a deluded, self-serving, sociopathic ignoramus, are trying to make excuses for the murderers. Karma WILL find YOU and ALL of the murderers.

                  You can continue your puerile and futile attempts to blame others as much as you like; however, you are ONLY fooling yourself. Karma won’t be fooled.

              2. John Doe: We have all given up on you. Please place your computer mouse in a bucket of water and keep it there.

    1. Some interesting facts about Rieckof case. According to the judge, its OK for a police officer to leave his duty station and take off for two to three hours with his girlfriend at her home without letting his superior officers know his location or that he is unavailable for duty.
      Further, its perfectly ok for the officer to do this for several months. He only has to report to his sleeping Police Chief whenever his chief wakes up.
      Now in Fullerton, the Police Chief went on a two week cruise while the sh-t hit the fan! When pressed that he needed to lead the Fullerton Police force he had an immediate stress leave followed by a stress retirement which made it partially tax free pension.
      The question to all of you: Is this fair?

  6. El Monte police officers tasered, choked and struck a man with a flashlight in an attempt to subdue the 37-year-old schizophrenic man, who died after the altercation on June 14, investigators said Tuesday.

    An official cause of death has been deferred in the case of Khoa Ahn Le pending drug tests, the Associated Press reported.

    At the El Monte city council meeting Tuesday night, Le’s family urged the city to investigate the death. Le would have turned 38 years old Tuesday.

    “I called 911 for help. Instead of getting the help needed, it turned out to be a death sentence,” the victim’s sister Diane Le told the council.

    “He is not a criminal. He has a mental disorder. He doesn’t have any weapons on his hand. You are elected to be city council. Is this how you would run the city? Is this how you train your police officers?”

    El Monte Mayor André Quintero told the family on behalf of the city council that they extend “our deepest consolences” for the family’s loss and recognized their request for a investigation by the city.

    “Right now the investigation is in the sheriff’s hands; they’re conducting what we expect to be a thorough investigation and we look forward to getting those results, seeing what the results are and then taking appropriate actions,” he said.

    At about 11 p.m. on June 14, two El Monte police officers responded to a family disturbance call in the 2700 block of Caminar Avenue in El Monte.

    Related: Lawyer: Another Kelly Thomas Case

    Diane Le called police to report that her brother and father were fighting.

    When police arrived at the home, family members directed them to the garage, where Le was quickly exiting a “make-shift bedroom,” sheriff’s officials said.

    That’s when, investigators said, Le began resisting and assault the officers, who used physical force in an attempt to detain him.

    An officer struck Le with a flashlight once in the torso; another officer struck him three times with his baton – once in the torso, once in the knee and once in the ankle, sheriff’s officials said.

    Police said Le continued to resist officers, who then tasered him and used a Carotid Restraint, also known as a blood choke or sleeper hold, on him.

    Officers were able to handcuff Le, who was being detained on suspicion of elder abuse when he appeared to be in medical distress.

    Paramedics were called to the scene and Le was transported to a hospital where he was pronounced dead.

    Investigators said both officers involved in the incident were injured, transported to the hospital, treated and released.

    One officer suffered injuries to the nose and upper lip; the other officer suffered an injury to the elbow and knee and had difficulty breathing.

    It was the third time officers were called to the location on family disturbance calls, detectives said. In 2005 and 2006, Le was taken into custody by El Monte police officers for mental observation.

    Detectives said in one of those instances, Le was suspected of stabbing his brother.

    1. “difficulty breathing” means too fat – like Manny Ramos or Joe Wolfe. Too many biscuit ‘n gravy breakfasts at IHOP.

  7. Sgt. and recently promoted Lieutenant Andrew Goodlie would have had a field day providing the above story to the newspaper reporters! The officers were taken to the hospital with broken bones, broken nose, ripped up lip, etc. etc. Fullerton PD better look out, Lt. Goodlie will be in high demand by other police departments like El Monte for his stellar record at providing obfuscating information to the newspaper reporters! He is probably out on interviews right now!

  8. Maybe you minions will strat to get it soon.

    El Monte Police were doing what they are trained to do. You minions are hell bent on blaming someone else when things go awry and families cannot deal with sick family members. Or in Ron T’s case… don’t want to deal with it, and this by his own admission. Can’t deal with it or don’t know how to deal with it. Or all of the above.

    1. doing what they were trained to do – interesting turn of phrase and implies a deficiency in their procedures for dealing with mentally impaired people…

  9. It’s been a year, time to move on, bedwetters. None of you gave a damn about Kelly while he was still alive on July 4th, 2011 while you all were out celebrating the holiday (including YOU Ron Thomas, you abandoned your son to the streets and should be haunted by what happened for the rest of your days).

    It was his final July 4th, because the next day he chose to disobey EIGHT lawful commands that were given to him after he was caught lifting door handles and caught with stolen property. He chose to fight to the death rather than allow himself to be handcuffed. He made his grave, now he can lay in it.

    Move on … nobody will show up for these “benefits”, except for a few losers … even the two dorks on KFI have moved on and don’t mention Kelly Thomas anymore. Nobody cares …

    http://friendsforjay.org/

    1. its time for YOU to move on, J-bird is going to JAIL!!!

    2. I’ve been holding it in for a long time Lisa, but here it goes.

      Fuck you. Fuck you and everything you say. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you.

      And yes, I’m using my real name. You want to find me, ask around.

        1. well that’s good news. I was really concerned about one of you big bad guys on here causing me some sort of bodily harm.

    3. you are not correct in your assumption that nobobdy cared about Kelly before July 4th. He was cared about the day he showed up here at the train station in June. It wasn’t the police that were doing the caring. I hope some day the department can get back to the title it once had to protect and serve. Not anybody can fit the bill of being an elite trained protector and also having the compassion it takes to serve the community and the needy when that it is necissary.

  10. @Lisa, we have moved forward. We voters, residents of Fullerton, have made our voices heard. Now you need to “Shut up” and go crawl under a rock. Let the system work.

    1. The number of people that ACTUALLY came out to vote hardly reflects the population of Fullerton. It’s only a small percentage. So, it would serve you not to speak for the residents of Fullerton.

      1. Ostrich mantra: Deny, deny, deny, deny, then hide, then deny some more.

        Keep denying and posting under a pseudonym. Gives you TONS of credibility.

        1. For the Record, the numbers speak for themselves and they reflect a very small percentage of Fullerton’s population. I’m not in denial I can live with the results. Win some and lose some. That’s how it goes.

          1. I see . . . so any election ever held in this country doesn’t speak for the people? And we call ourselves a democracy! The shame . . .

            Sorry TWT. Go sell your snake oil somewhere else. We ain’t buyin’.

      2. Face it. You lost. Badly. Fullerton voters are going to clean your precious PD up or nail the doors shut. Citizens = 1, Cops = 0. Now don’t be a sore loser. Try tasing yourself a few times and see if you don’t feel all better.

  11. The Marines I have shared the Jaybird friends website with, many of whom are or have been in law enforcement, believe he is no longer deserving of the title “Marine”

  12. Sounds like a great cause to keep the memory of Kelly Thomas, and his senseless death alive. Nice depiction of the vicious pigs preying on their helpless catch; except Ramos and Cicinelli were not in nearly as good of shape as the pigs/officers depicted.

    @ the po-po lovers: Typing in all caps does not make your comments any less vacuous. It just makes you look more ignorant. And just because you get slapped around for not obeying your husband’s orders doesn’t mean that it is ok Lisa. Noone has to blindly follow the commands of thugs with badges who get their jollies treating human beings like pinatas. That’s why they prey on the poor, mentally ill, and other minorities. If an uneducated, bully pig tries to mess with anyone who has education or money, he knows his @ss is going to have a lawsuit against him faster than he can say “stop resisting.” I know these stereotypes do not apply to all police oficers and their supporters, but I think it’s safe to say it does to the ones on here.

  13. Peaches,

    As a Marine, and a decent person, I detest anyone hitting or beating a woman. As far as I am concerned, he is nothing more than a thug and a punk, not a Marine.

  14. I’ll see you guys at the KTMF memorial concert on Saturday July 7th but I’m done with this site, it’s been overrun by trash like John Doe, TimeWillTell, Reality Is and Greg Diamond.

    I’ve had enough.

  15. Andy Anderson is da bomb. He is the heart and soul of Fullerton.
    I dig Andy Anderson ! ! !

    Fuck you Lisa

  16. “Lisa,” you have been outed already. I already know who you are…

    You are Jill, Jay Cicinelli’s sister. Your cohort, “John Doe” is Trina, his wife. Ask me how I know.

    So how about you shut the f*ck up already?

    I thought you had gotten the message already with our little discussion earlier. Apparently not. I’m completely fed up with your sickening, heartless comments. I’m going to copy and paste your comments everywhere. Everyone is going to know who you REALLY are, and what you have said.

    That’s a promise.

      1. They should. Every time they post they put another nail in their husband/brother’s coffin.

  17. Thanks for exposing them Chris. I guess I’d be embarrassed to use my real name too if I was related to one of the most hated men in Fullerton. It must be hard for them to accept that their husband/brother is a deranged psychopath who got his kicks out of bashing in the head of a subdued, mentally ill man in a calculated manner while he begged for his life. They must feel a lot of guilt about not getting their husband/brother the help he needed before it was too late. Or maybe they were just not raised with any regard for human life. I know many cop families feel the badge gives you the right to shoot first and ask questions later. I mean just look at the inane excuse of beating someone to death for not obeying commands, even though the evidence shows Kelly was obeying the officers before he was threatened with an a$$ whooping. I would not be surprised if they were/are both beaten by their husbands/fathers. I have actually came to the defense of personal attacks on Cicinelli for losing an eye several times on here. But I can not defend his being allowed to continue as a cop when he was obviously mentally unstable. I mean Ramos was obese and sadistic, but that is different than psychologically unfit. I wonder what Mrs. C. will do for a living after her husband is incarcerated. I guess forming a website to beg off of the boys in blue who are sympathetic to the plight of murderers (ahem, Benjamin Lira), is a good way to stay afloat. Or did I get her mixed up with the other one?

  18. P.S. Since “John Doe” claims to be independently wealthy perhaps she can provide “Lisa” with the funds to support her brother’s legal defense. That would put an end to public solicitation. I wouldn’t want Lisa to get the label of panhandler, have false charges brought up against her, and then get beat to death just cause she was trying to beg up a little money from police brutality sympathizers.

    1. The officers’s legal defense is covered. So stop lying about asking for money. One more lie under your belt.

  19. Benjamin Lira (who is a detective with the Fullerton Police Department, just so everyone knows) is the one who wrote the letter to ask for donations for Manuel Ramos. A group on Facebook, named “Big City Cops” posted the letter online.

    I suspect, with some evidence, that Jill and Trina Cicinelli have also been posting horrible comments like this about Kelly Thomas on a couple of other websites. Now wouldn’t it be interesting if a little birdie provided me with an IP address so we can see what cities those comments have been originating from? Not an actual address, of course, but just a city. And that’s all we need. I have been trying to get an admin to do that here, without any luck. Things may be going a little bit differently on another site however, because they’re fed up with her trash.

    It’s one thing to post disgusting, heartless comments about a murder victim as an anonymous troll on a blog….but it’s quite a different matter when you get outed publicly.

    And I’m working on that right now.

    Jill and Trina Cicinelli are going to have to change their names and move to a treehouse in Nova Scotia pretty soon, if they keep this up.

  20. The sad part is, they seem to truly believe that executing a man for supposedly not obeying commands is perfectly acceptable as long as you have a badge.

  21. Lisa, I don’t know who you are, but I do know who you’re not… and you are not any of Jay’s sisters.

    Keep them off balance, which is not hard to do if you know what I mean.

    Prayers for officers everywhere.

  22. Chris did you say treehouse? Won’t it be too crowded with all of you in there?

    Chris, “you suspect?” We all suspect something, but it’s one thing to post disgusting, heartless comments about an alleged murderer by an anonymous minion on a blog….but it’s quite a different matter when you get outed publicly.

    How do you get outed privately?

    You are barking up the wrong treehouse in Nova Scotia, especially if you keep this up.

    Minions! Minions! Minions!

    And this is not Lisa!

    1. Actually, a treehouse in Nova Scotia is probably a step up from a pizza joint in El Centro.

  23. “Two great opportunities to show your support for reform in Fullerton without glossing over what happened last July 5th – the murder of an innocent man.”

    By the cops. A hate crime, in fact. Rusty, Rusty, wherefore art thou, Rusty?

  24. Justice for ALL :
    Ron did not bludgeon Kelly’s face with the butt end of a Taser eight times, pulverize Kelly’s facial bones and destroy his left eye, Tazer Kelly repeatedly, do 2 full-body weight knee drops onto Kelly’s face and throat, -thereby crushing Kelly’s throat, break Kelly’s ribs, collapse Kelly’s lung, dogpile onto Kelly, choke Kelly, crush Kelly’s thorax, suffocate Kelly Thomas, (and ALL of this took place while Kelly was begging for mercy!!) and then leave unconscious Kelly, unattended, to choke and die in a huge pool of blood, while the gang of FPD stood around laughing; however, YOUR honey bunnies Jay, Ramos and Wolfe DID do that, with help from their FPD buddies.
    And, YOU, a deluded, self-serving, sociopathic ignoramus, are trying to make excuses for the murderers. Karma WILL find YOU and ALL of the murderers.
    You can continue your puerile and futile attempts to blame others as much as you like; however, you are ONLY fooling yourself. Karma won’t be fooled.

    Allegedly Ron Thomas beat his wife so badly that she was hospitalized. Because of this he resigned form the Sheriff’s Academy and was never a sworn officer. (Although he’d have you believe differently.) Also, Kelly was not even blood related. Ron didn’t have any contact with his son for the last 10 years. Now he’s trying to milk the city for millions of dollars. Kelly deserves better than that!

    1. @ Anonymous,
      You obviously can’t read, or your comprehension skills are severely lacking. However, I’ll say it again:

      You can continue your puerile and futile attempts to blame others as much as you like; however, you are ONLY fooling yourself. Karma won’t be fooled.

      You are correct, Kelly deserved better than to be beaten, bludgeoned and suffocated to death, while he BEGGED for MERCY, ESPECIALLY by the FPD who have sworn to serve and protect, and who should have protected the most vulnerable among us.

      1. JFA… I agree, “Karma won’t be fooled.”

        But Ron Thomas is extorting the City of Fullerton and lives in a world of great hypocrisy. You’re to busy with your head up your ass to even realize it.

        Justice will be served for Kelly and I hope to God that Ron Thomas receives nothing!

        1. @Anonymous, The brutal murder of Kelly Thomas, by FPD officers, under color of authority, has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Ron Thomas. I repeat. NOTHING.

          However, if Ron Thomas did not advocate for justice for his son, the murder of Kelly would have been swept under the rug, just like so many other murders and FPD crimes that have also been swept under the rug.

          The prosecution of Kelly’s murderers in FPD is about JUSTICE FOR KELLY THOMAS!! If Ron gets a civil settlement, that’s FINE WITH ME!!! And, I hope he DOES!!! He deserves it IF ONLY TO MAKE a POINT to the BRAIN DEAD FPD that police brutality and murder is WRONG and will not be tolerated! I don’t care if Ron Thomas BURNS the money in his fireplace, uses it for a homeless shelter, or chooses to retire in Cancun on the beach. I DON’T CARE!! It’s not my business, and it’s certainly not my place to tell Ron and his family how to spend the money.

          The FPD cops have NO ONE to blame but THEMSELVES for their own sins. So you can stop your futile efforts to shift the blame onto the victims and onto their families.

          You have NO CLUE about mental illness, nor about the restraints that are placed upon families who are blocked at every turn when they try to get help for their loved ones who suffer from mental illness.

          It is nearly impossible to get help or treatment, especially when the cops routinely refuse to transport on a 5150. The cops would rather beat, choke and suffocate someone to death, rather than transport to a hospital for a psych evaluation.

          It can be a nightmare for a family who is trying to obtain psychiatric help for their loved one. Usually, the mentally ill family member refuses to go to the hospital for help, (because they are too ill and don’t believe that anything is wrong with them), and the officers often refuse to transport on a 5150.

          Even though cops receive crisis intervention training, in order to better understand how to handle the mentally ill, the officers are still clueless and don’t want to do anything, except brutalize and murder. The officers can call a psychiatric, mental health crisis intervention team to assist them out in the field; however, they very rarely do so.

          In Kelly’s case, the FPD KNEW that Kelly Thomas was mentally ill. The FPD didn’t care. The FPD had their own agenda that night, and they certainly didn’t care whether Kelly lived, or died. They used excessive force and they murdered Kelly Thomas, -even as Kelly screamed in pain, begged for his very life, and struggled to breathe while he was being crushed and beaten to death. To my knowledge, no mental health crisis team was called, nor assisted with Kelly Thomas.

          If you are so worried about Ron getting monetary damages awarded to him by the court, TAKE IT UP WITH THE JUDGE and the JURY. The murdering cops are at least being allowed their day in court.

          The murdering cops denied Kelly Thomas, -an innocent, mentally ill man, his right to a jury of his peers. The gang of cops lynched Kelly on the street and ignored his cries for mercy!

          I hope that Ron Thomas gets MILLIONS and MILLIONS and bankrupts the city. I hope there is no money left to pay for any of your salaries, overtime or pensions. I know that you really couldn’t care less if Cicinelli, Ramos, Wolfe, etc. spend a few years in prison, after all, we all know they won’t get nearly as much time in prison as they truly deserve for Kelly’s murder.

          However, from your comments, it would appear that you DO care an awfully lot about money. Sadly, money seems to be the only way to make the FPD sociopaths pay attention to what IS truly important, which is the value of a human life, -EVERY HUMAN LIFE.

          1. Are you done JFA? Rhetoric.. those cops did all those big things to poor Kelly. Lets blame the cops and not Ron Thomas.

            1. Nope. I’m not done until the murderers are in jail. You are correct; the cops did all of those horrible, unspeakable, inhumane, brutal, merciless things to poor Kelly. The FPD cops murdered an innocent human being!!

              The cops WILL go to jail. And, I DO blame the cops who bludgeoned and suffocated Kelly to death, -NOT the father, who was nowhere near the scene of the brutal murder. Kelly was screaming for help and mercy, but the cops did not help him, -instead, they MURDERED him.

          2. If FPD cops hadn’t tortured and murdered Kelly Thomas, Ron wouldn’t be getting any money at all. Your sociopathic FPD buddies/husband/brother are the only ones who will be responsible for putting money in Ron’s bank account.

            I hope Ron spends some of the money on a huge statue of Kelly, and I hope Ron puts it right in front of the FPD, where you and your FPD buddies will have to see it every day, and where it will remind all of you that Jay, Ramos, Wolfe and the others will all be going to HELL for murdering an innocent, helpless man.

              1. Who do you think you’re kidding? No, the homeless won’t “piss on it.” They will cover it with flowers, balloons and messages of love for Kelly.

                1. How can they afford flowers and balloons?

                  Regardless, they’ll still piss on it.

                2. @Anonymous, Have you visited the memorial for Kelly Thomas at the Fullerton transit center? No homeless person has EVER “pissed” on Kelly’s memorial.

                  The homeless men and women have been maintaining Kelly’s memorial ever since it was first created, after Kelly was murdered by cops under color of authority. Several times a day, they work on it to keep it clean, straightened up and looking nice.

                  I don’t think you’ll ever stop trying to blame the homeless, murder victims and their families for your own/FPD’s evil intentions. You are truly pathetic.

  25. I see JFA isn’t taking his medication again. Someone call Reality Is to get JFA a 5150 again before his head explodes.

    Justice for ALL :
    Ron did not bludgeon Kelly’s face with the butt end of a Taser eight times, pulverize Kelly’s facial bones and destroy his left eye, Tazer Kelly repeatedly, do 2 full-body weight knee drops onto Kelly’s face and throat, -thereby crushing Kelly’s throat, break Kelly’s ribs, collapse Kelly’s lung, dogpile onto Kelly, choke Kelly, crush Kelly’s thorax, suffocate Kelly Thomas, (and ALL of this took place while Kelly was begging for mercy!!) and then leave unconscious Kelly, unattended, to choke and die in a huge pool of blood, while the gang of FPD stood around laughing; however, YOUR honey bunnies Jay, Ramos and Wolfe DID do that, with help from their FPD buddies.
    And, YOU, a deluded, self-serving, sociopathic ignoramus, are trying to make excuses for the murderers. Karma WILL find YOU and ALL of the murderers.
    You can continue your puerile and futile attempts to blame others as much as you like; however, you are ONLY fooling yourself. Karma won’t be fooled.

    1. Reality Is has told me that he doesn’t take mentally ill people to the hospital on a 5150… because he says that the hospital always just releases them again anyway. Therefore, Reality Is doesn’t even try to get help for mentally ill people, even when they obviously need it. Reality Is believes that he is performing his job according to the way in which he has been trained.

      This is very disheartening and you can see how difficult it is to get help for a mentally ill loved one, especially when LE will not transport to the hospital.

      In fact, months ago, Reality Is told me, on this blog, that he had only taken ONE person to the hospital on a 5150 hold in the past 10 years!! That was an elderly lady in her 90’s who had fallen in her home three days earlier, and she was covered in urine and feces. Reality Is even dared to make fun of that poor woman!!

      If Reality Is wants to take me in on a 5150, I will gladly go with him, because it will be nothing short of a MIRACLE, and I’d love to see it first hand.

      1. The mental hospitals don’t even want to admit them anymore. They are a waste of time and money cause they are released in 72 hours.

        1. Plenty of patients are NOT released after 72 hours, especially if the patient has a history/track record of severe mental illness, a history of legal problems or hospitalizations, or if the patient needs to be stabilized on meds, is gravely disabled, a danger to others or a danger to self.

          Just because our current legal/mental health system makes it difficult to keep a patient in the hospital longer than 72 hours, it does not mean that our “public servants” (I use that term very loosely) should ever abdicate their shared responsibility to get help for those who suffer from severe mental illness!! And, it certainly does not give officers carte blanche to murder the homeless/mentally ill!!

          If a conservator (ie. public guardian appointed social worker or a family member), or the representative payee, is providing the conservatee/or mentally ill loved one with shelter (ie. home, group home, apartment, motel room, etc.) and the conservatee will NOT stay in that shelter and is sleeping outside and refusing to live in the shelter, then the social worker can and SHOULD call the officers to implement a 5150!!

          On the other hand, if the conservator, (public guardian appointed social worker or family member) or the representative payee, is NOT providing the conservatee/or mentally ill loved one with shelter at any time, – the public guardian or the family member who is neglecting to provide shelter SHOULD be reported to adult protective services for dereliction of their duties as the conservator/or as the representative payee!!

          The tricky part comes when you understand that in order for a patient to be admitted on a 5150 hold for longer than 72 hours on the basis of being “gravely disabled,” which means that the patient has no means of providing himself with food, clothing or shelter, -the family is required to sign a statement stating that they will NOT provide any food or shelter for their loved one, and stating that their loved one will not be allowed to live at their home, -or file a restraining order against their loved one, which denies them access to shelter at the home. They must state that they will only provide for their medical care. Writing a statement such as that, or filing a restraining order, is the most difficult and heart rending thing for parents to do; however, it is often REQUIRED in order to get help for a severely mentally ill loved one.

          Even when families do everything “right,” their loved ones are often undertreated and released from care much too soon. It is truly a never ending struggle to get care for the seriously mentally ill, and to keep a loved one from being brutally, mercilessly murdered by cop.

            1. I am. They banned the word “reality” so I just put 5150. Bored on Sunday morning and up for a good debate.

          1. @ Reality Is “5150 situations,” I haven’t stated one thing that is “out of touch with reality.” Everything that I have stated is based on personal experience, and based on extensive statement and advice given to me by social workers/hospital therapists and attorneys.

            If you, or the FPD, don’t want to do your part to “serve and protect” the mentally ill, and you are so afraid of them that you won’t do anything except abuse and murder them, then you are truly in the wrong line of work.

            It is “public servants” like you, who are in desperate need of the most RE-training before you end up murdering another Kelly Thomas, who did absolutely NOTHING to deserve being brutally executed on the street.

            If what I have to say only “…goes in one of your ears and out of the other…” then it does not speak well of you as a person, nor does it speak well of you as a “public servant.”

            1. You get so angry you can even debate anything. You are like a little kid. Cry and run off.

              What I’m telling you is how it is. Statewide. You may not like it but it’s how it is done in every PD around. Cops follow the 5150 law. Yes unable to eat and sleeping in a bush meets the criteria in your mind but not in the eyes of cops or psychs. So what’s the answer? Have you visited LACO jail in the last year to see the mental ward? It’s sad. Those are people that committed heinous crimes and needed help. They were prolly 5150’d over and over and are now locked up for life. Crazy cycle. Crazy world. You will never find a cop in this world that doesn’t take more precautions than normal with psychos. They can flip their switch in a second and if a cop blinks they are dead.

              You won’t ever be interested in the big picture because you are stubborn and always right. I just wish you would look at the big picture. You could be valuable to the process if you saw the big picture but with your mind you really don’t help anyone.

              1. Reality Is, Tell me, exactly what does your childish word “prolly” mean? I believe that is actually your euphemism for NEVER!!

                You have told me in the past that you have only done a 5150 ONCE in the past ten years!! And that was an elderly woman in her 90’s who had fallen in her home three days earlier, and who was covered in urine and feces. (However, in telling your story you used very foul language in order to ridicule the poor woman.) You are not only disgusting, you are also disingenuous.

              2. @Reality Is, Plenty of patients are NOT released after 72 hours, especially if the patient has a history/track record of severe mental illness, a history of legal problems or hospitalizations, or if the patient needs to be stabilized on meds, is gravely disabled, a danger to others or a danger to self.

                Just because our current legal/mental health system makes it difficult to keep a patient in the hospital longer than 72 hours, it does not mean that our “public servants” (I use that term very loosely) should ever abdicate their shared responsibility to get help for those who suffer from severe mental illness!! And, it certainly does not give officers carte blanche to murder the homeless/mentally ill!!

                If a conservator (ie. public guardian appointed social worker or a family member), or the representative payee, is providing the conservatee/or mentally ill loved one with shelter (ie. home, group home, apartment, motel room, etc.) and the conservatee will NOT stay in that shelter and is sleeping outside and refusing to live in the shelter, then the social worker can and SHOULD call the officers to implement a 5150!!

                On the other hand, if the conservator, (public guardian appointed social worker or family member) or the representative payee, is NOT providing the conservatee/or mentally ill loved one with shelter at any time, – the public guardian or the family member who is neglecting to provide shelter SHOULD be reported to adult protective services for dereliction of their duties as the conservator/or as the representative payee!!

                The tricky part comes when you understand that in order for a patient to be admitted on a 5150 hold for longer than 72 hours on the basis of being “gravely disabled,” which means that the patient has no means of providing himself with food, clothing or shelter, -the family is required to sign a statement stating that they will NOT provide any food or shelter for their loved one, and stating that their loved one will not be allowed to live at their home, -or file a restraining order against their loved one, which denies them access to shelter at the home. They must state that they will only provide for their medical care. Writing a statement such as that, or filing a restraining order, is the most difficult and heart rending thing for parents to do; however, it is often REQUIRED in order to get help for a severely mentally ill loved one.

                Even when families do everything “right,” their loved ones are often undertreated and released from care much too soon. It is truly a never ending struggle to get care for the seriously mentally ill, and to keep a loved one from being brutally, mercilessly murdered by cop.

                1. @Reality is, Ron Thomas, aka JFA, has an answer for everything but not for, where were you the last ten years of Kelly’s life. You couldn’t even recognize him in his booking photo. Yeah, I know, That is not Kelly. Try again.

                2. John Doe, I’m not Ron Thomas; however I do have some important questions to ask you.

                  How many victims has your husband/brother beaten up, screen checked, sexually abused, tortured or murdered in the past ten years?

                  How many times has he “forgotten” to wear his DAR?

                  How many times has he unnecessarily escalated violence and abuse on his victims?

                  How many times has he violated his victims’ civil rights?

                  How many times has he abused the mentally ill?

                  How many times has he failed to serve and protect all citizens, especially the most vulnerable citizens, no matter what they look like, where they live, or how they smell?

                  How much/little empathy does he have for the citizens that he “serves” up brutality to on a daily basis?

                  How many crimes committed under color of authority has he covered up with his silence?

                  How many police reports has he re-written, re-written, re-written and falsified?

                  How many times has he perjured himself?

                  How much evidence has he tampered with?

                  How many favors has he done for the establishments that comp his food and booze?

                  How many times has he threatened and/or beaten you and the kids?

                  How many times has he told you that he can “…do whatever he wants to you and no one will ever believe you, or care.”?

                  How many times have you told him that he is a liar, pervert, creep, sociopath or worse?

                  How many times has your mom and dad, or other family members or friends told you that they are afraid for your safety?

                  How many times have your girlfriends/or family members told you that you should divorce your abusive cop husband?

                  How many times have your friends told you, or should have told you, that you are putting your children in danger by not removing them from his presence?

                  How many times have you lied to family members, friends or doctors about how you or the kids got all bruised up and injured?

                  How many times are you going to lie for your murdering husband/brother?

                  Are you also going to perjure yourself on the stand for your husband/brother during his upcoming trial for the murder/excessive force/civil rights violations of Kelly Thomas?

                  When your sweetie/abuser/money provider goes to prison, will you and the kids visit him every week?

                  When will you finally come to your senses and divorce him before he does irreparable harm to you and your children?

                  Don’t you realize that when your children are older, they will hold YOU responsible for not protecting them from their abusive, sociopathic father?

                  Do you care more about money and preserving your “reputation” than you care about your childrens’ safety and mental health?

                  Do you know what Stockholm Syndrome is??

                  Are you answering the questions honestly?

                3. @John Doe, You are living with a husband who is a sociopathic murderer!! He gets his sadistic thrills by viciously bashing in heads/eyes/faces/throats, etc. and then he laughs about it!! I strongly recommend that you should take the kids and leave BEFORE you all end up on the coroner’s autopsy table. And, don’t tell ANYONE where you are going!!

                4. JFA..I am living with a husband? Ahhh I dont think so. That would be great if I was a woman. But last time I checked I am not.

                5. Check again John Doe if you can”t use your real name you won’t find any balls there.

            2. Justice for All has the kind of attitude that we need to see from our Chief of Police here in Fullerton.

              1. JFA’s attitude would result in dead cops and dead citizens often. It’s not realistic. And there is no money to make a big house of 5150’s like he wants.

                1. I’ve got a good start. How about sharing the $40 million dollar a year budget that we pay the Fullerton Police Department.

                2. That’s possible. Might happen. Then you get OCSD for say $32 million. $8 million extra. Won’t go to the homless but part could. But then research how OCSD handles the homeless transient 5150’s. I think outside of this death, you will find almost identical results. County system might even be worse.

                3. The figure is actually closer to $25 million. I can build a local Taj Majal for the homeless with that amount of money ($15 million) saved annually.

                4. Yea that’s unrealistic. Sheriffs used to lowball bids to get into cities and then raise the rates each year until they end up long term higher than the original PD. they can’t do that now because the counties are now broke too. That’s why my estimate of $32 was closer to a realistic cost. Ontario tried a homeless camp. It didn’t work. It was similar to the LA Occupy camp but actually had supervision and rules. Still failed.

                5. Oh. I thought discussed and estimated was as far as anyone got. Formal bids with steps 1 and 2 are the actual numbers. That’s where it usually goes higher. I don’t think anyone has authorized a formal bid and proposal yet right?

                6. The document that I enclosed is the request for proposal that the Orange County Sheriff’s department offered to the city of Yorba Linda, and is NOT a signed contract between the two entities.

                7. Yea no formal estimate has started with Fullerton. Formal request has to come from council or city manager. They do a prelim bid phase 1 and in depth phase 2.

                8. So you get rewarded for being a bum? Fullerton would be laughing stock of the world!!!

                9. I’m not sure that providing a temporary shelter for a homeless person would qualify as a reward.

                  I’m pretty sure that compassion for our fellow man is a virtue that is admired universally.

                  I was never prouder to be an American as I was to sit and talk with people in England and Germany who spoke of our forefathers in reverent tones for what we did in WW2.

                  That’s the kind of legacy that I want to leave my children.

                10. I should say for not only what we did during WW2, most importantly, it was what we did after we had won WW2 that we really showed the rest of the world the type of people we were when we chose to help them rebuild their respective countries instead of rule them.

  26. lol@ Hog’s “Barking up the wrong tree-house” comment. Nobody on here has any fear of these police lackeys who hide behind pseudonyms. Let’s face it, they can’t spell, can’t form a logical argument, and can’t do much of anything besides provoke those seeking justice. If they spent half as much time getting an education and doing something with their lives as they did apologizing for murders they might garner a little more respect.

  27. Jill and Trina both read the FFFF blog. I can say that for a fact. One of them has also posted similar comments on at least 2 other websites that I know of. In some cases, almost word-for-word.

    One of these websites simply blocked her and the admin doesn’t want anything more to do with it. I’m talking with the admin for the other website…they have the IP address and is deciding how to handle to handle it. Two comments were made from the same IP address, one was made possibly using a proxy server.

    Funny, I didn’t think either Jill or Trina would be smart enough to use a proxy. Especially judging from that atrocious “Friends For Jay” website.

  28. Wow, Chris, if you are correct, and members of the cicinelli clan are posting here, the thought of corresponding with them, even though unknowingly, makes me feel dirty, at one point I almost felt sorry for the cretins, that perhaps they had no moral compass or education and they were the victims of thier upbringing. Between thier hateful comments directed at the victim, Kelly and his family and that sickeningly sweet, religiously hypocritical “friends for jay” site my minds eye forms a mental image of them as that psycho family from the Texas chainsaw massacre. They just make my skin crawl.

      1. @John Doe, Kelly’s upbringing was obviously far superior to yours. Kelly Thomas was a kind, good and decent human being; those are qualities that you do not possess. You are a sociopathic liar who has absolutely no compassion or conscience, no integrity and no morals.

        Kelly was a victim of a devastating mental illness called schizophrenia, which made him a prisoner in his own mind. But, even worse than that, -Kelly was a victim of the FPD, who brutally tortured and murdered him under color of authority.

        1. All Kelly had to do was comply.

          Maybe because Ron Thomas who wasn’t even blood related messed him up?

          After all, he did put Kelly’s mom in the hospital and had to resign from the Sheriff’s Academy.

          1. Anon, its really funny how no one comments about your comment. They shut their mouths about it. Its true people!! Now what do you all have to say about it. Hey JFA, what do you think about that?

            1. Trying to distract from your own misdeeds, by directing the negative attention to others, is something that most of us who grew up know is as old as the hills.

              That’s why no one commented.

            2. John Doe and Anonymous, since you apparently haven’t read my comments down below, I’ll repost here for you:

              The officers were not being threatened, at all, by Kelly. Nonetheless, Ramos intentionally escalated the situation by unlawfully threatening Kelly with great bodily harm, which caused Kelly to fear for his life.

              The officers never told Kelly that he was being arrested and they never tried to make a lawful arrest; instead, they just started threatening Kelly and striking him. If officers did the same things to me, I too, would be terrified and, I too, would have tried to get away from the thug cops who were behaving like Mafia hit men. Does anyone remember Craig Peyer?? I certainly do.

              Kelly had a lawful right to resist Ramos’ illegal threats. Kelly was unarmed, and he did not deserve to be murdered for trying to get away from cops who had threatened to F him up and who were attacking him. No one deserves to be murdered for having junk mail in his backpack.

              To me, it is terrifying that several of the cops who post on this blog truly seem to believe that depriving Kelly of his civil rights was justified. Instead of being sorrowful, ashamed or even remorseful because of Kelly’s horrific murder, they constantly try to defend the indefensible. The cop mentality seems to be extremely far removed from “protecting and serving” anyone, except for themselves.

              They also don’t seem to remember, or care, that the Feds convicted two of Rodney Kings’ attackers on civil rights violations. I’m beginning to believe that the FPD is completely, and truly, a lost cause.

              1. JFA. You make some points with facts but you always throw in your opinions that distort the truths and add zero credibility to your arguments. You hate debates because you think you are always right.

                Do you agree that if the call is found to be legit, that the cops had all the probable cause to contact Kelly? Like if someone makes that call again today that the cops and the public would want cops to make the contact and detention?

                That if the cops arrive and begin to investigate, and they find paperwork fom a law firm that has nothing to do with the transient contact, and the detainee can’t explain why he has the property, they should continue to investigate?

                That as they investigate and don’t get the answers they need, that they should arrest for possession of stolen property pending the contact with the owner of the paperwork? Then if it’s found to be trash and no protection by the owner that the transient be 849b1 from the jail later? I mean if it was your stolen property you would want it back right? And if they couldn’t confirm at that time but could later, you want the criminal arrested right?

                And if during the detention, eliminating the gloves with the threats by Ramos, the cops should chase and attempt to arrest the transient?

                Just trying to figure out where your beliefs go so far into our space and how you think cops should react to avoid injury early on.

                1. Allegedly “stolen junk mail” does not merit death by cops on the street without a trial.

                  Not having the mental capacity to follow directions to the letter does NOT merit death by cops on the street without a trial.

                  legally, a person does not have to comply with illegal threats of great bodily harm!!

                  The cops NEVER read Kelly his rights, they never told him they were going to arrest him, and they never tried to handcuff Kelly before they intentionally escalated the situation and threatened him with great bodily harm; they caused Kelly to fear for his life and then began beating, and torturing Kelly. The cops weren’t satisfied until Kelly was dead.

                2. And, no, I definitely would not want you to murder someone because they had my junk mail in their backpack. But, that is SO obvious that EVEN YOU should be able to come to that same conclusion.

                  If someone is having difficulty with responding appropriately to your commands, and it is not a life threatening situation, you should DE-escalate the situation and call for a crisis intervention team back up. The cops were never threatened, or put into danger by Kelly Thomas. Kelly only began trying to back off and he only began trying to defend himself AFTER the cops escalated the situation and began threatening and attacking him. Kelly had every legal right to do so.

                  Was there a reason that you were in such a big hurry to murder Kelly Thomas that night???
                  It is apparent that you are on the wrong side of the law and you have no business wearing a badge.

  29. Nomad, I only pray that Jay Cicinelli, and his neurotic wife Trina, do not have children. You know those poor kids would be abused. I’m also hoping that Jay’s sister Jill does not have any kids. When this all first happened, I felt that we should leave the cops’ families out of it because they are innocent. But with the disgusting comments that Jill and Trina Cicinelli have been making lately, and especially that awful “Friends For Jay” website, they can go down with him.

    The only ones who would be innocent would be their kids, if they have any.

    As far as Jill and Trina are concerned…they’re fair game now. I fully intend to out them publicly and let everyone know just how heartless and sick they truly are.

    1. Go ahead Chris, cause you are the one that is gonna be with egg on your face for accusing Trina and Jay of posting under my moniker.

  30. As far as I know, Jay Cicinelli himself hasn’t posted here. He doesn’t have the guts. That’s why he left his La Mirada house a long time ago and went into hiding.

    On the other hand, as I said, I know for a fact that Trina reads the FFFF blog, and both her and Jill have posted here.

    Now, “John Doe” and “Lisa”…you can either have the spine to come out and admit who you really are. And face the fact that Jay is going to jail and he will never be a cop again. OR you can wait until a few fliers start getting posted around a city near you (VERY near you) with that horrific picture of Kelly Thomas in the hospital, alongside a printout of the comments you have both made here (you know, where you called him a “worthless shitbag”). Gee…how do you think people are going to react then? You think you’re having a hard time making friends now?

    I don’t think I have EVER seen a case like this, where the family of a cop involved in a beating death has made hateful, derogatory comments about the victim and the victim’s family.

    Keep it up.

    1. All I can say, you better be sure its Lisa posting what you are accusing her of before you start circulating anything.

    2. oh’ thats her..trina reads this blog.she told me in a email, HEY TRINA JAY BIRD IS GOING TO JAIL!!!
      YOUR FRIEND JUDA,DANIELLE,TONY,SHERBEAR AND WHO EVER ELSE YOU THINK I AM

    3. I think it would be a public service to the neighborhood in La Mirada where the Ciccinelli’s live, if they were to all receive a mailer of Jay Ciccinelli repeatedly hammering the butt of his weapon into a restrained man’s eye socket, along with his acknowledged public comments afterwords in the locker room of the FPD bragging, “I beat his face to hell”.

      Is this really the guy you want coaching your children?

  31. Kelly Thomas was afflicted with a mental illness known as schizophrenia, jay cicinelli is afflicted with a condition known as sadism.

  32. Let’s all call 911 and get JFA some help.

    Justice for ALL :
    Ron did not bludgeon Kelly’s face with the butt end of a Taser eight times, pulverize Kelly’s facial bones and destroy his left eye, Tazer Kelly repeatedly, do 2 full-body weight knee drops onto Kelly’s face and throat, -thereby crushing Kelly’s throat, break Kelly’s ribs, collapse Kelly’s lung, dogpile onto Kelly, choke Kelly, crush Kelly’s thorax, suffocate Kelly Thomas, (and ALL of this took place while Kelly was begging for mercy!!) and then leave unconscious Kelly, unattended, to choke and die in a huge pool of blood, while the gang of FPD stood around laughing; however, YOUR honey bunnies Jay, Ramos and Wolfe DID do that, with help from their FPD buddies.
    And, YOU, a deluded, self-serving, sociopathic ignoramus, are trying to make excuses for the murderers. Karma WILL find YOU and ALL of the murderers.
    You can continue your puerile and futile attempts to blame others as much as you like; however, you are ONLY fooling yourself. Karma won’t be fooled.

  33. Does Mr. Thomas’ so called affliction in any way justify the brutal beating and Murder of his son Kelly by 6 oafish, costumed, thugs?

    1. No. We just all wish we were Ron. He’s gonna be a porn star with all that cash. Fake tits everywhere.

  34. Who is “We”? You and the mouse in your pocket? Shook the tree and look at all the ‘lil rotten apples that fell out…all one of you.

  35. Comments left by the “Gang of one” include but not limited to “porn star”, “fake tits”, “cum”, “big tit blondes running around naked”, “huge rack”, “smokes great pole”, Pull up your tighty whities, yellow to the front, brown to the back, and slink away. You have nothing of value to say.

  36. Think about a hypothetical. Your loved one or a member of your family is a cop and kills someone and is charged. Would you:
    1. post derogatory messages insulting the victim?
    2. post derogatory messages insulting the victim’s family?
    I wouldn’t. I might defend the cop, if what they did was defensible. I would probably protest that the cop was a good man who just made a fatal mistake. I would talk about the pressures of the job. I’d express remorse for the death. And probably most normal humans reading this would do the same.

    So if the people posting here are related in any way to Cicinelli or any of the cops involved, that shows us the kind of people we are dealing with. Low moral character, paired with low intelligence doesn’t even begin to describe it.

    The people posting insulting statements about Kelly Thomas and Ron Thomas and justifying police brutality here don’t seem to understand the effects of what they’re doing. They’re just pushing the rest of us into a more and more hardened position against law enforcement. This damage can’t be undone. If you people posting this garbage are not actually cops or cop families, but anti-cop activists pretending to be cops I salute you. Because you couldn’t possibly do a better job of undermining support for police than you are doing now.

    1. I am just telling it like I see it. Ron Thomas didnt give a shit about his son until he started seeing dollar signs, then it was Justice for Kelly. And his girlfriend, whatever her name is, is campaigning for Ron also. As soon as he gets some money, he is gonna dump her and move in with Marlena. How does Ron know anything about the officers? They have families also and he is running their name through the mud. If he would of taken care of his son, him or his ex-wife. This incident wouldnt have happened. The cops were doing their jobs. Just like the cops from El Monte were doing their jobs also. These cops have parents also, that I am sure hurt for their sons also. Its not all about Kelly. It was an unfortunate accident, but you people don’t want to hear it was an accident. According to all of you it was intentional. Do you think these cops want to be off with no pay, not able to provide for their families. You all are cop haters that is why we are here. You don’t give a shit about Kelly.

      1. @John Doe, You are obviously in complete denial about the issue that will be adjudicated in court. This is ENTIRELY, and ONLY about the murder of Kelly Thomas and the events that led up to, and occurred, on the night of July 5, 2011, that resulted in Kelly’s death.

        Cicinelli bludgeoning Kelly to death, and continuing to bludgeon, Taser, and knee drop onto Kelly’s face, AFTER Kelly was already unconscious, was NO accident. Ramos pulling on his gloves and threatening Kelly with great bodily harm was NO accident. Six cops crushing Kelly’s thorax, beating and kicking him while Kelly begged for mercy, was NO accident. No officer providing first aid to Kelly was No accident.

        There is no doubt about it; I definitely despise bad, soulless, sociopathic cops who think they can violate civil rights and murder with impunity.

        Not only do I care very deeply about Kelly Thomas, I also care very deeply about all of the future Kelly Thomas’. We must continue to work to make sure these gruesome, brutal, horrific, needless murders committed by cops under color of authority STOP.

        You asked: “Do you think these cops want to be off with no pay, not able to provide for their families.” [sic]

        Your question above is the very least of my concerns after someone has been murdered. I believe that you need to do some very serious soul searching.

        Do you believe that Kelly wanted to be murdered? Do you seriously believe that you have the right to take the life of an unarmed person because he can’t follow your directions exactly to the letter? Do you ever think about the irreparable damage that you do to your victims and their families? Do you ever take personal responsibility for your actions? Do you always hide behind a badge? Do you have a conscience? Are you more interested in saving your ego, -or in saving lives? Do you judge the worth of a human life according to where someone lives, by what kind of clothing he wears, or by what he looks like? Do you know the difference between “right” and “wrong”? Are you truly honest with yourself and with your God?

        John Doe, I believe that you are far sicker in your self-deluded mind than Kelly Thomas ever was.
        RIP Kelly Thomas.

  37. Doesn’t anyone care about you? Can’t you have someone objective, whose opinion you value, explain to you why your comment is so askew. When I am too close to a subject/project and I feel I may have lost some perspective because of it, I value an unbiased opinion. You are in denial, Mr. Thomas’ personal life has nothing to do with what happened. “I was just doing my job,” “I was just following orders” did not work for the nazi’s at the Nurumburg trials and it will not work in this context either. To run over someones foot is an accident, breaking a dish is an accident, 6 costumed thugs beating and tasering a man to death while he is screaming for his life is no accident. If anyone had a callous disregard for Kellys life, and that of thier own families that night of July 5th it was those involved in the Murder/Cover-up of KT. Now and always thier lives and that of thier families will never be the same. I hope you learn to lament the name Kelly Thomas from now until your last day on earth. When you go before your God I do not envy you, how shallow those words will ring in your ears, “how you did not want to be off without pay” for beating to death a homeless, long haired, bearded, drifter. Somehow I do not think that will illicit a sympathetic response and it certainly will not here.

    1. I was expecting this kind of comeback. But I said my peace and you said yours. We all have our opinions. We will see in the end.
      Do not be so dramatic, that’s what makes this blog stupid. There was no murder/cover-up and their was no 6 cops on Kelly. Get over that one, you saw the video.

  38. I don’t think it was a outright pre-meditated Murder. I do believe it was meant to be a beating per a previous understanding involving the slidebar owner/mngmt, that went too far, and the former p.o.’ s involved lost control of themselves. Prisons are full of people, who in a rage, lost control of themselves.

  39. That works both ways. You know for a fact. Wonder how you know for a fact.

    Since nobody here on FFFF is making threats to anyone, you must be talking about the den of LEO’s who worship nazism and think of themselves as little dictators, who feel they can loud talk, demand, beat, torture, kill, injure and are immune to the law. So, yeah, that must be who you are referring to since they are the only one’s I’ve ever seen threats come from on any of these comments on FFFF.

    1. They have to act like little dictators, like you call them, or there would be no order in this country. People to the likes of you just want to get away with everything, well it’s not going to happen. After the Kelly incident is over with. There will be more to come, as long as people want to take the law in their own hands. There will be more Kellys who don’t want to do what they are told. And are just jerks all the way around. There is lot more Kellys out there that were given up by their parents and expect society to take care of them. Let’s all of us kick our kids out and when the cops call about them just say, He/she is your problem. Cause that is what happened here. As much a Ron denies it, he didn’t care.

      1. No they don’t, you and your buds in blue, get off on the power trip and that’s all of it, period. Gangster wannabes. The only jerk, as you call ’em is you and you darling dictators-what goes around comes around.

        Even if all you say about Ron Thomas is correct, the fascist nazi po-po’s did not have to beat his son to death because he didn’t do what they said. Who are you to decide who takes the law into their hands? or gets away with stuff? Huh? dictator.

  40. Justice for ALL :@Anonymous, The brutal murder of Kelly Thomas, by FPD officers, under color of authority, has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Ron Thomas. I repeat. NOTHING.
    However, if Ron Thomas did not advocate for justice for his son, the murder of Kelly would have been swept under the rug, just like so many other murders and FPD crimes that have also been swept under the rug.
    The prosecution of Kelly’s murderers in FPD is about JUSTICE FOR KELLY THOMAS!! If Ron gets a civil settlement, that’s FINE WITH ME!!! And, I hope he DOES!!! He deserves it IF ONLY TO MAKE a POINT to the BRAIN DEAD FPD that police brutality and murder is WRONG and will not be tolerated! I don’t care if Ron Thomas BURNS the money in his fireplace, uses it for a homeless shelter, or chooses to retire in Cancun on the beach. I DON’T CARE!! It’s not my business, and it’s certainly not my place to tell Ron and his family how to spend the money.
    The FPD cops have NO ONE to blame but THEMSELVES for their own sins. So you can stop your futile efforts to shift the blame onto the victims and onto their families.
    You have NO CLUE about mental illness, nor about the restraints that are placed upon families who are blocked at every turn when they try to get help for their loved ones who suffer from mental illness.
    It is nearly impossible to get help or treatment, especially when the cops routinely refuse to transport on a 5150. The cops would rather beat, choke and suffocate someone to death, rather than transport to a hospital for a psych evaluation.
    It can be a nightmare for a family who is trying to obtain psychiatric help for their loved one. Usually, the mentally ill family member refuses to go to the hospital for help, (because they are too ill and don’t believe that anything is wrong with them), and the officers often refuse to transport on a 5150.
    Even though cops receive crisis intervention training, in order to better understand how to handle the mentally ill, the officers are still clueless and don’t want to do anything, except brutalize and murder. The officers can call a psychiatric, mental health crisis intervention team to assist them out in the field; however, they very rarely do so.
    In Kelly’s case, the FPD KNEW that Kelly Thomas was mentally ill. The FPD didn’t care. The FPD had their own agenda that night, and they certainly didn’t care whether Kelly lived, or died. They used excessive force and they murdered Kelly Thomas, -even as Kelly screamed in pain, begged for his very life, and struggled to breathe while he was being crushed and beaten to death. To my knowledge, no mental health crisis team was called, nor assisted with Kelly Thomas.
    If you are so worried about Ron getting monetary damages awarded to him by the court, TAKE IT UP WITH THE JUDGE and the JURY. The murdering cops are at least being allowed their day in court.
    The murdering cops denied Kelly Thomas, -an innocent, mentally ill man, his right to a jury of his peers. The gang of cops lynched Kelly on the street and ignored his cries for mercy!
    I hope that Ron Thomas gets MILLIONS and MILLIONS and bankrupts the city. I hope there is no money left to pay for any of your salaries, overtime or pensions. I know that you really couldn’t care less if Cicinelli, Ramos, Wolfe, etc. spend a few years in prison, after all, we all know they won’t get nearly as much time in prison as they truly deserve for Kelly’s murder.
    However, from your comments, it would appear that you DO care an awfully lot about money. Sadly, money seems to be the only way to make the FPD sociopaths pay attention to what IS truly important, which is the value of a human life, -EVERY HUMAN LIFE.

    Well said JFA! I got chills.

  41. No john doe, people on here don’t hate cops, they hate murderers. Just because the reality you live in thinks having a badge gives you license to murder, that’s not what the law states. I do feel bad for the kids of Cicinelli and Ramos. They have to live with the knowledge their daddies murdered an innocent man in cold blood. I just hope they move out as soon as possible before they are too far gone. Hopefully they are not being beaten regularly. Even the gang-banging punks who beat Bryan Stow badly stopped before they murdered him. But unlike the thugs with badges who murdered Kelly, they’ll probably spend the rest of their lives in prison. It’s sad that we live in a society that has so little accountability for those WE pay to protect and serve. If we truly want accountability we need to make the police officer position one that requires an education. That would weed out all the sadistic, cognitively impaired cops who get into the service.

    1. The badge gives you the license to keep law and order and respond to complaints of all kinds. Even the ones that no cop likes to respond to. Domestic violence and death calls. And the #1 call they hate to respond is to kick smelly bums from public eateries.

      1. You and your snot nose, bratty friends think you have those rights, stupid JD. You laughable dorks…you don’t have the “right” to kill someone at your will.

        The #1 information taxpayers hate to hear is about obese, immature, peoplekilling, thuggy nazi’s like you beating someone to death, because they aren’t wearing a suit from Sax’s Fifth Ave and intimidating anyone who doesn’t go along with the nazi program, furthermore it isn’t up to any of you to decide who’s a “bum” and who isn’t-I don’t care what is written in your playbook. Since we do pay your salaries-we have a right to push back and we will for as long as necessary, count on that.

          1. That just goes to show what a blood-thirsty imbecile you are. You have no regard for human life and that is contrary to everything I hold dear.

            Enjoy your campaign with the devil.

  42. And I could really give a rat’s @ss if FPD is monitoring my comments. Unlike the cops and their buddies on here, I do not have to hide behind pseudonyms. Of course if I was making myself look ignorant like they do, I’d probably call myself John Doe as well.

  43. Smelly? Wouldn’t that be half of the obese cops who can’t run more than a quarter mile without grabbing the oxygen mask? Your boys Ramos and Hampton probably break into a malodorous sweat just sitting in their squad cars “fighting crime.”

    1. They rather sit in their squad cars and smell themselves, than have to put a smelly bum in their cars and smell them. Pretty gross.

  44. John Doe :The badge gives you the license to keep law and order and respond to complaints of all kinds. Even the ones that no cop likes to respond to. Domestic violence and death calls. And the #1 call they hate to respond is to kick smelly bums from public eateries.

    O.K. Doe, but this is where we come to the fork in the road. Had the former p.o.’s just moved him along, none of this would have happened, even if KT did disobey “8” lawful commands, and I do not agree that he did, had they just taken him into custody rather than beginning to pummel him with a baton this would not have happened. But they made a conscious decision to brutalize him. Now they have to pay for thier actions, just like any criminals guilty of a crime, because that is what they are.

  45. I agree with you, If this would of been a call of a homeless person loitering, they would of moved him along. But the call was for a bum trying to open door handles. This to the officers mean a crime in progress. You dont know or see the dynamics of the call. Two very different calls. In the officers mind kelly was committing a crime. Then they checked his backpack and found items that do not belong to him. After 18 minutes of trying to get his name, cause they did not know who he was, though you all think these cops knew him, they were done being nice to him. Being rude or cussing at someone is not crime. Kelly got up and try to run. Then the camera doesn’t show what Kelly did after he tried to run. That is part of the investigation and will come out in the trial. The cops gave him commands and and he didn’t comply. They tried to handcuff him and were not able to, that is why they called for backup. As big as these two cops were, they couldn’t retrain Kelly. It was damn if they do and damn they I don’t for these cops. They let him run and cops get in trouble, they try to subdue and they got in trouble. It is a no win situation.

    1. So your saying it was kind of a Rodney King thing. He tried to run too. You know those officers were charged with excessive force. But, Rodney lived to tell his story. Our officers killed.

        1. @John Doe, So, exactly what are you trying to say? Are you saying that if Rodney King had not been so tall, and if he had not weighed so much, and if he had not been on any drugs…the officers would have killed him too…just like Kelly Thomas??

            1. So, you’re saying that, in your mind, it is acceptable to bludgeon and suffocate an unarmed person to death? And, Kelly Thomas was just unlucky because he didn’t have any PCP in his system??

              1. Both were fleeing felons in the cops eyes at the time. Murder wasn’t the intent. Rough up and cuff was. Rodney could have died too. So could every person that has force used on them.

                1. You’re wrong. Rodney King had NO PCP in his system, NONE.

                  Quote:

                  Post-arrest events

                  “King was taken to Pacifica Hospital immediately after his arrest. He suffered a fractured facial bone, a broken right ankle, and numerous bruises and lacerations.[27] In a negligence claim filed with the city, King alleged he had suffered “11 skull fractures, permanent brain damage, broken [bones and teeth], kidney damage [and] emotional and physical trauma.”[28] Blood and urine samples taken from King five hours after his arrest showed that he could be presumed intoxicated under California law. The tests also showed traces of marijuana (26 ng/ml), but no indication of PCP or any other illegal drug.[28] At Pacifica Hospital, where King was taken for initial treatment, nurses reported that the officers who accompanied King (including Wind) openly joked and bragged about the number of times King had been hit.[29] King sued the city over the beating, settling for $3.8 million.[30]

                  The officers

                  The Los Angeles district attorney charged officers Koon, Powell, Briseno and Wind with use of excessive force. While Sergeant Koon did not strike King and had only used the Taser, he was the supervisory officer at the scene and was charged for “willfully permitting and failing to take action to stop the unlawful assault.” The initial judge was replaced, and the new judge changed the venue, as well as the jury pool, citing contamination of the jury pool by the media coverage. The new venue was a new courthouse in Simi Valley in neighboring Ventura County. The jury consisted of Ventura County residents—ten white, one Latino and one Asian. The prosecutor, Terry White, was African American. On April 29, 1992, the jury acquitted three of the officers, but could not agree about one of the charges for Powell.[9]

                  Los Angeles Mayor Tom Bradley said, “The jury’s verdict will not blind us to what we saw on that videotape. The men who beat Rodney King do not deserve to wear the uniform of the L.A.P.D.”[31] PresidentGeorge H. W. Bush said, “Viewed from outside the trial, it was hard to understand how the verdict could possibly square with the video. Those civil rights leaders with whom I met were stunned. And so was I and so was Barbara and so were my kids.”[32]

                  Los Angeles riots and the aftermath

                  Main article: 1992 Los Angeles riots

                  The news of acquittal triggered the Los Angeles riots of 1992. By the time the police, the U.S. Army, Marines and National Guard restored order, the casualties included 53 deaths, 2,383 injuries, more than 7,000 fires, damages to 3,100 businesses, and nearly $1 billion in financial losses. Smaller riots occurred in other cities such as San Francisco, Las Vegas in neighboring Nevada and as far east as Atlanta, Georgia.

                  Federal trial of officers

                  After the riots, the United States Department of Justice reinstated the investigation and obtained an indictment of violations of federal civil rights against the four officers in the United States District Court for the Central District of California. The federal trial focused more on the evidence as to the training of officers instead of just relying on the videotape of the incident. On March 9 of the 1993 trial, King took the witness stand and described to the jury the events as he remembered them.[33] The jury found Officer Laurence Powell and Sergeant Stacey Koon guilty, and they were subsequently sentenced to 32 months in prison, while Timothy Wind and Theodore Briseño were acquitted of all charges.[9]”

                  Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/rodney-king#ixzz1yhB41L79

                2. In Kelly’s case, murder WAS definitely the intent. At some point, cops KNOW that if they keep crushing lungs, applying massive amounts of weight, suffocating long enough, doing choke holds long enough, keep Tazing long enough, and keep bludgeoning long enough, and make a person choke on their own blood long enough…a person WILL DIE.

                  And, since they knew that their victim was, for all intents and purposes, already dead, they believed there was no reason for them to even bother giving first aid, and so they didn’t.

    2. They why did Hamos call him by his name in the video?………………………………………

    3. Intentional escalation to a felony arrest is what feeds the pinball point meter, the DA, his clearinghouse, and all those in the machine who have their fangs in the unsuspecting public when they become the unfortunate prey. This time it went all the way to the coroner.FPD has a 100+ million a year budget with all the toys and they acted like hyenas on that warm summer evening with full wallets, full stomachs, and armed to the hilt and look what happened. Can you imagine how they will TRY to treat us when things hit the fan? It is never too late to do the right thing.

  46. So anyway:
    July 6th from 6pm – 11pm at PAS Gallery. I contend that we have put together what is the most meaningful and emotional charged art exhibit perhaps in Fullerton’s history. Every artist that I wanted to contribute art, specifically on topic, said yes. A dozen of the artist, most of whom submitted more than one work, are passionate about this cause and they all hold resumes of gallery showings that are very impressive. Once we had a firm foundation in quality artist, and we do, then then we could opened it up to anyone who was sincere with some artistic ability. Our roster of almost 50 artists includes artists who have been touched by schizophrenia themselves, a psychiatrist who is well known for his work and paintings of the Los Angeles’s homeless, the bad ass lead singer of The Runaways, Cherie Currie, who has been tuned in to the Kelly Thomas case since the story broke and Cherie has carved an unbelievable Kelly Thomas memorial bench (I would like to post a picture as it’s amazing) and she will be there along with Susan Olsen, who is now known for her art, but was once a child actor from the Brady Bunch, will be there with her contribution. We have college art professors, college students, photo journalists, and artistically minded activists, all showing us their reaction to this murder in a medium that is seldom used in this way. Some of these artist dedicated up to two weeks of their life to create something significant. All thisi because we want to introduce what we believe to be the best thing in Fullerton, the Art Walk, to what I know was the ugliest day in Fullerton’s history, July 5th 2011, the day Kelly was tortured and beaten by up to six on Duty Fullerton Oficers. On the anniversary of this dark day, I we will remind people, within and outside of Fullerton, that there was afnother Fullerton, one which was not represented by the City Council at the time, the leadership at the police department, or the Ed Hardy tools who wander the downtown bar scene every Saturday night. Lets call it “The A**hole Free Fullerton”, these are the women that collected recall sigs, the artists, the activists the musicians, and all the everyday hard working people that respect the law, but when they saw what these six police officers did to Kelly Thomas, they were so moved that they picked up a sign and wanted answers. There will be food trucks, music, incredible art .. and it’s free. Every expense associated with with this show has been paid by the organizers, every penny earned that night from donations or the sale of art, goes to the charity. If you want free wine and cheese go the Laguna galleries, we are serving up truth and beauty at this one. And as if that was not enough, the following day The Adolescents headline the Kelly Thomas Memorial Concert at the museum plaza . Show times from 2pm to 8pm. Not a bad weekend for justice.

    1. I would like to extend an invitation to all of the Friends For Fullerton’s Future readers and bloggers to join me on July 6th 2012 at the PAS Art Gallery on Sante Fe Avenue, which is located just two blocks away from the front of the Fullerton Police Station where the Kelly Thomas protests were held last summer.

      This is a grass roots effort by artists throughout the Southern California area who have chosen to get involved and make a difference in our community.

      I sincerely hope to see you all there on July 6th.

      http://www.2pas.org/blog/2012/06/art-with-an-agenda-an-exhibit-inspired-by-kelly-thomas/

      1. I forgot to add that since the gallery owners, musicians, and artists have all donated their time and talent, that every penny that is raised during the Art Walk will be donated to the Kelly Thomas Memorial Foundation to help people who are hungry and/or homeless.

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    Posted: Sunday, June 24, 2012 12:34 am | Updated: 12:36 am, Sun Jun 24, 2012.
    Associated Press | 0 comments
    HURLEY – An 85-year-old Hurley man shot and killed by a SWAT team had a pistol wrestled from his hands several hours before by his apartment manager, the Hurley police chief said Saturday.
    Killed in the Friday morning incident was Leo J. Driscoll. Chief Dan Erspamer, who leads the small police department in the northern Wisconsin town, said the shooting is under investigation by authorities in nearby Vilas County. Erspamer said SWAT officers who entered Driscolls apartment found him holding a rifle, but said the ongoing investigation restricted him from saying whether Driscoll shot at or pointed his weapon at officers.
    Two officers on the seven-member Hurley Police Department are on standard paid administrative leave, along with a handful of other officers on the multijurisdictional SWAT team comprised of personnel from numerous local agencies.
    Erspamer said he responded to a call about 8:30 Friday morning from the manager of the apartment building where Driscoll lived. The man said Driscoll came into his office and threatened him with a handgun, but he was able to get it out of his hands. Driscolls girlfriend, who lives in another unit of the building, told police upon arrival that Driscoll had multiple firearms in his apartment, Erspamer said.
    Police evacuated about 40 residents; they were allowed to return Saturday morning. The SWAT team entered Driscolls apartment at about 11:30 a.m.
    Erspamer said Driscoll had no previous criminal record in Hurley, an Iron County town of about 1,800 people near the Michigan border.
    © 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

    1. The bench is absolutely amazing!! I love it so much and it is a truly beautiful tribute to Kelly Thomas. It is going to fetch a pretty penny!!

  48. Chris, JFA, Mare e joe and all the rest of you who think you know so much… Jill and Trina have not been posting on this blog for many months, so be careful who you accuse and what you accuse. You just might be very very wrong.

  49. John Doe :I agree with you, If this would of been a call of a homeless person loitering, they would of moved him along. But the call was for a bum trying to open door handles. This to the officers mean a crime in progress. You dont know or see the dynamics of the call. Two very different calls. In the officers mind kelly was committing a crime. Then they checked his backpack and found items that do not belong to him. After 18 minutes of trying to get his name, cause they did not know who he was, though you all think these cops knew him, they were done being nice to him. Being rude or cussing at someone is not crime. Kelly got up and try to run. Then the camera doesn’t show what Kelly did after he tried to run. That is part of the investigation and will come out in the trial. The cops gave him commands and and he didn’t comply. They tried to handcuff him and were not able to, that is why they called for backup. As big as these two cops were, they couldn’t retrain Kelly. It was damn if they do and damn they I don’t for these cops. They let him run and cops get in trouble, they try to subdue and they got in trouble. It is a no win situation.

    Doe, at the absolute worst, this would still be a non violent offense.There is no proof that KT was jiggling handles on doors, quite to the contrary, as it is alledged, a phoney report was made by slidebar mngmt. to fpd, but you know that. While he was compliant, before fpd escalated the situation, he could have been cuffed, he was not. He was not read his rights, he was not under arrest, KT did not attempt to defend himself until he was threatened and attacked. Be honest with yourself, if someone attacked you, you would instinctually try to defend yourself. Kelly was just trying to ward off the blows.

    1. The officers were not being threatened, at all, by Kelly. Nonetheless, Ramos intentionally escalated the situation by unlawfully threatening Kelly with great bodily harm, which caused Kelly to fear for his life.

      The officers never told Kelly that he was being arrested and they never tried to make a lawful arrest; instead, they just started threatening Kelly and striking him. If officers did the same things to me, I too, would be terrified and, I too, would have tried to get away from the thug cops who were behaving like Mafia hit men. Does anyone remember Craig Peyer?? I certainly do.

      Kelly had a lawful right to resist Ramos’ illegal threats. Kelly was unarmed, and he did not deserve to be murdered for trying to get away from cops who had threatened to F him up and who were attacking him. No one deserves to be murdered for having junk mail in his backpack.

      To me, it is terrifying that several of the cops who post on this blog truly seem to believe that depriving Kelly of his civil rights was justified. Instead of being sorrowful, ashamed or even remorseful because of Kelly’s horrific murder, they constantly try to defend the indefensible. The cop mentality seems to be extremely far removed from “protecting and serving” anyone, except for themselves.

      They also don’t seem to remember, or care, that the Feds convicted two of Rodney Kings’ attackers on civil rights violations. I’m beginning to believe that the FPD is completely, and truly, a lost cause.

      1. Kelly said the “F” word about six times before the officer said it., “Give us your name”, I don’t know man”. Jerk all the way.

        1. As a public service I would like to explain what condition causes someone with schitzophrenia to behave this way.

          The condition is called echolalia and is present in a variety of mental illnesses and is especially present in those that are afflicted with autism.

          Many people would be more familiar with this condition if they recalled the autistic character that Dustin Hoffman played in the movie “Rainman”.

          I believe that the not so bright types, like Manny Ramos, perceive someone that exhibiting signs of echolalia, to that of being mocked, and feel as if the person is not cooperating, and is instead “parroting” their requests and not listening to them and are “being a jerk”.

          This is when the trouble usually starts for those that don’t understand that it’s part of their illness which they can’t help anymore than I can help determine the color of my eyes when I was born.

          Hope that this helps.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echolalia

      2. Yeah, Kelly was so fearful, he answered Ramos, “Start Punching dude” doesn’t sound like he was in fear at all. Just being a jerk.

    2. Yeah that is what Ron Thomas wants your to think. That is how the call came out, did the cops know it was a made up call at that time “NO”, So stop making up lies until the truth comes out in the trial….And it will.

  50. Doe, the items that were found in KT’s backpack were junkmail that had been discarded. Its wrong to try to make it sound like something it wasn’t. He didn’t have car stereos, rims or i-pods, right?

  51. The “stolen items” that were in Kelly’s backpack were papers he found in a trash dumpster. That’s it. Nothing more.

    And I wouldn’t even bother trying to argue with “John Doe.” We have already proven that John Doe and “Lisa” are both family of Jay Cicinelli. So there’s no point in trying to talk to them…it won’t go anywhere. Trina Cicinelli is living in a fantasy world, where she believes that her husband and Manuel Ramos will be exonerated and will soon be cops back on the streets in the Fullerton. Yes, she really is that sick and disconnected from reality.

    And as far as anyone from the FPD “monitoring” this blog…well we already knew that was happening, didn’t we? I don’t give a crap. I’m not afraid. I haven’t made any illegal threats. Everything I have told Trina and Jill Cicinelli is completely legal. It’s no different than when residents find out that a registered sex offender is living in their neighborhood and they protest it. Circulating fliers with a printout of hateful, disgusting comments that someone has posted about a murder victim is NOT illegal. When those comments are posted with a link to a website supporting Jay Cicinelli…well it’s not hard to put 2+2 together and figure out who is making those comments.

    Trina and Jill Cicinelli are.

    Unless they intend to have a couple of their friends from the FPD beat me to death too, I have nothing to be afraid of and I don’t care what they think.

    1. I am not related or never met the Cicinelli’s. I really don’t give a rats ass what you think. Keep on thinking it. I know for a fact now that you have no proof who anyone is on this blog. You crack me up. “Weak”!

  52. So if I happen to have some letters, originally addressed to my dad or brother, that they gave me to look at, in my purse and the coppers ILLEGALLY search my purse and find these letters that were given to me by the letter owner, I should be beaten to death because THEY think I stole them?

    1. Joe. You added things like normal to make the answer easy. They couldn’t confirm any relation at all between him and the mail. Kelly told them he could look in his backpack. That makes the search legal. No. Death shouldn’t happen. You should go to jail until property ownership is confirmed.

    2. Wel, we all new the letters belonged to an attorney. And we know in hell that Kelly was no attorney. Don’t be stupid Merihoe!

      1. I know the attorney whose mail Kelly had in his possession, and and can tell you that it was all junk mail.

        1. FL we know that now. The point was if it all happened again the person will go to jail for 496 just as Kelly was going to jail. He can be 849b1pc the next day or once someone contacts the attorney but the point was if the call happens all over again.

          1. Coupled with the fact that the police had been called under a false premise of a suspect breaking and entering into cars, I totally understand why an officer would want to detain a suspect under those set of circumstances.

            However, my point is, that as I understand it from the Attorney whose mail was involved, is that the mail that was in Kelly’s possession was very obviously junk mail that had been discarded.

            Coupled with the fact that the suspect has no priors for braking and entering into cars, and is obviously not in possession of any tools that might be used for breaking into cars, and the suspect is shirtless and shoeless to boot, that at that point the detention should begin to de-escalate and that the suspect should have been allowed to eventually go free when the initial suspicions that fueled the detention in the first place, prove to be unfounded.

            Instead of this scenario, Ramos chose to escalate the situation, because he thought that Kelly was mocking, or teasing him, due to Kelly’s mental illness which causes echolalia.

            1. Words only words, it’s not against the law to use them. They are used all the time so idiots like Kelly can understand. And Kelly was able to understand the cops. Poor Kelly, he has mental problems, not that night. He was was dropping the F bomb more than Ramos ever did. “Echolalia”, yeah right give me a break.

              1. This is the section of the law that says your dead wrong about a person being able to use words to convey a threat…

                California Penal Code section 422
                (a) Any person who willfully threatens to commit a crime which
                will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, with
                the specific intent that the statement, made verbally, in writing, or
                by means of an electronic communication device, is to be taken as a
                threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out,
                which, on its face and under the circumstances in which it is made,
                is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to
                convey to the person threatened, a gravity of purpose and an
                immediate prospect of execution of the threat, and thereby causes
                that person reasonably to be in sustained fear for his or her own
                safety or for his or her immediate family’s safety, shall be punished
                by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed one year, or by
                imprisonment in the state prison.
                (b) For purposes of this section, “immediate family” means any
                spouse, whether by marriage or not, parent, child, any person related
                by consanguinity or affinity within the second degree, or any other
                person who regularly resides in the household, or who, within the
                prior six months, regularly resided in the household.
                (c) “Electronic communication device” includes, but is not limited
                to, telephones, cellular telephones, computers, video recorders, fax
                machines, or pagers. “Electronic communication” has the same meaning
                as the term defined in Subsection 12 of Section 2510 of Title 18 of
                the United States Code.

                I suggest that you review the audio portion of the city surveillance tape regarding my statement about echolalia.

                1. I suggest you look up and review..Qualified Immunity, asshole. For your info, Wikipedia it.

  53. Yes. We agree. Death shouldn’t have occurred. Get over that part. I said take out that part in our debate.

    Yes no cop would read anyone their rights at that point. I would walk up to cuff him with gloves on and he flees. Now what’s your thoughts?

    Justice for ALL :
    Allegedly “stolen junk mail” does not merit death by cops on the street without a trial.
    Not having the mental capacity to follow directions to the letter does NOT merit death by cops on the street without a trial.
    legally, a person does not have to comply with illegal threats of great bodily harm!!
    The cops NEVER read Kelly his rights, they never told him they were going to arrest him, and they never tried to handcuff Kelly before they intentionally escalated the situation and threatened him with great bodily harm; they caused Kelly to fear for his life and then began beating, and torturing Kelly. The cops weren’t satisfied until Kelly was dead.

    1. Reality Is stated: “Death shouldn’t have occurred. Get over that part. I said take out that part in our debate.”

      You’d REALLY like for everyone to just “Get over that part,” wouldn’t you?

      1. The problem with your misdirection is this: Kelly’s death is THE MOST GERMANE POINT OF THE DISCUSSION and it is THE REASON why we are here having this discussion in the first place. KELLY IS DEAD. There is no “getting over” that truth.

      2. IF, IF you had calmly talked to Kelly and told him that you were going to arrest him, or called a CIT team, and asked him to put his hands out to be cuffed, WITHOUT FIRST THREATENING HIM WITH GREAT BODILY HARM and STRIKING HIM FIRST, he would have very likely complied without incident. It was the illegal threats, the escalation of violence by the cops and the striking of Kelly Thomas that put fear into Kelly and caused him to try to protect himself from harm/blows. Stop trying to minimize the fact that the cops committed murder when they lynched Kelly Thomas in the street.

      3. If someone tries to flee, and all you have on him is a non-violent alleged crime of possessing junk mail…you have NO right to beat someone to death.

      4. You are constantly trying to minimize what happened to Kelly Thomas. Your only purpose in commenting on this blog is to try to excuse police brutality and murder and to make excuses for the status quo. YOU, and those like you, are a huge part of the current problem and apparently, you are not going to be ANY part of the solution. All you know how to do is abuse/murder victims and then laugh about it afterwards.

      1. Yep, death should’nt have happened, but it did. Get over it. Kelly had a heart attack and died. Maybe the the taser, but his living condition were bad and his health was terrible.

        1. @ John Doe, since you mentioned living conditions, I wonder how good the living conditions will be in prison for your sweetie. And, talking about health… your sweetie’s health is terrible; he is obese you know, and his triglycerides, cholesterol and blood pressure are likely completely off the charts. Not to mention, he drinks at the BarfBar far too much…. and smokes?

          However, if your sweetie is targeted and he happens to get bumped off while he is serving his time in prison…oh well, I’m sure you’ll “get over it.” After all, he IS in terrible health!

      2. @Reality Is, You stated: I’m focused on making sure it doesn’t happen again…”

        Oh, now I get it…you are a COMEDIAN!! HA HA HA HA HA Very, Very Funny!! You have such a FUNNY way of showing your concern!!! HA HA HA!!!

        One incident??? HA HA HA That’s Hysterical!!!

        OK Mr. Reality Is a Comedian, you definitely earned your laughs for the night!! Keep it up! Everyone loves a good laugh!

  54. Yes we know that. You make me laugh cause you are such a little kid. Yes we know. No death. I said that first.

    You can’t debate the details huh? Just the end result? I guess I expected that from you. There is no crisis intervention team for face to face contacts like that. If we don’t get the answers for whatever reason they go to jail for possession of stolen property and the detective will follow up later. And we can’t take him 5150 for not answering or refusing to answer questions.

    You are so predictable. I’m trying to debate you with reality of how things happen. You refuse. You need to see things first hand to understand your desire for the JFA book of 5150’s won’t happen. You just don’t see the big picture of the daily 5150 contacts and how they are handled. 99% handled without issue and to perfection. However, 99% of people you would want 5150’d aren’t 5150’d either.

    Look at my questions and answer them as if they are happening right now and just starting.

    Justice for ALL :
    And, no, I definitely would not want you to murder someone because they had my junk mail in their backpack. But, that is SO obvious that EVEN YOU should be able to come to that same conclusion.
    If someone is having difficulty with responding appropriately to your commands, and it is not a life threatening situation, you should DE-escalate the situation and call for a crisis intervention team back up. The cops were never threatened, or put into danger by Kelly Thomas. Kelly only began trying to back off and he only began trying to defend himself AFTER the cops escalated the situation and began threatening and attacking him. Kelly had every legal right to do so.
    Was there a reason that you were in such a big hurry to murder Kelly Thomas that night???
    It is apparent that you are on the wrong side of the law and you have no business wearing a badge.

  55. No matter how many times JD and the rest of the cops and cop supporters try to pretend Ron Thomas had any control over his grown son’s actions, the truth is he was a grown man who was under his own power. Just as Jay Cicinelli’s parents could not force him to get the psychological help he needed before he helped beat an unarmed, innocent man to death. Nor could Manuel Ramos’ parents stop him from becoming an obese, rage-filled sadist who took pleasure provoking fights with mentally and physically impaired men who were half his size in one case, and twice his age in the other. These hypocrites refuse to even comment on the fact that Ron Thomas did a much better job doing everything in his power to get his son the help he needed while the parents of Cicinelli and Ramos did nothing to prevent their sons from being cold blooded murderers. Of course the majority of people know that Ron Thomas is a much better person and parent than either the Cicinelli’s or the Ramos. That’s why Fullerton overwhelmingly supported the recall of the trash who, like the Cicinelli and Ramos clans, tried to look defend the action of these sick, brutal men. That’s why the Thomas family admit their son had problems instead of pretending like he was an angel, while Cicinelli’s step-dad, and wife spread lies about his innocence and beg for money online. That’s why the Thomas family will be living well for the rest of their lives (a small consolation for having your son murdered), while the Cicinelli and Ramos family will spend all their money defending the innocence of their unspeakable actions and trying to prevent justice from occurring. Mr. Thomas, I commend you for all the grace and dignity you have displayed in seeking justice for your son. Perhaps if you had raised Cicinelli or Ramos they would have learned that human beings, no matter how poor or mentally ill, are not worthless piles of shit that can be abused with no consequence. To the families of Cicinelli and Ramos. Perhaps if you had instilled any type of moral compass in your boys they would acknowledge that murder, even if unintentional, even if while wearing a badge, is unacceptable and offer a private apology to the Thomas family.

  56. No matter how many times JD and the rest of the cops and cop supporters try to pretend Ron Thomas had any control over his grown son’s actions, the truth is he was a grown man who was under his own power. Just as Jay Cicinelli’s parents could not force him to get the psychological help he needed before he helped beat an unarmed, innocent man to death. Nor could Manuel Ramos’ parents stop him from becoming an obese, rage-filled sadist who took pleasure provoking fights with mentally and physically impaired men who were half his size in one case, and twice his age in the other. These hypocrites refuse to even comment on the fact that Ron Thomas did a much better job doing everything in his power to get his son the help he needed while the parents of Cicinelli and Ramos did nothing to prevent their sons from being cold blooded murderers. Of course the majority of people know that Ron Thomas is a much better person and parent than either the Cicinelli’s or the Ramos. That’s why Fullerton overwhelmingly supported the recall of the trash who, like the Cicinelli and Ramos clans, tried to look defend the action of these sick, brutal men. That’s why the Thomas family admit their son had problems instead of pretending like he was an angel, while Cicinelli’s step-dad, and wife spread lies about his innocence and beg for money online. That’s why the Thomas family will be living well for the rest of their lives (a small consolation for having your son murdered), while the Cicinelli and Ramos family will spend all their money defending the innocence of their unspeakable actions and trying to prevent justice from occurring. Mr. Thomas, I commend you for all the grace and dignity you have displayed in seeking justice for your son. Perhaps if you had raised Cicinelli or Ramos they would have learned that human beings, no matter how poor or mentally ill, are not worthless piles of shit that can be abused with no consequence. To the families of Cicinelli and Ramos. Perhaps if you had instilled any type of moral compass in your boys they would acknowledge that murder, even if unintentional, even if while wearing a badge, is unacceptable and offer a private apology to the Thomas family.

    1. Ron Thomas is an arrogant, self righteous, greedy, piece of shit. Period! And it only took me two sentences to say it.

      1. JD-And Ramos and Cici are still going to be punished for what they did to Kelly regardless of what your opinion is of his dad-most likely so are some more of the creepy nazis.

      2. And he has your porcine police department and your murdering buddies by the balls!!! I support the Thomas family 100%!

    2. Well said, Brandon. These cretins are used to having the criminal justice system on their side. Now that they are the ones on trial, they can only shit their pants and talk shit here. It’s really all they have. This is just killing them that they cannot wash away the innocent blood on their hands. It’s just not as easy to be a punk pig anymore, especially in Fullerton. The city is just waiting for another one of them to screw up. The pressure must be unbearable, so they come here to blow off steam since they cant go out and prey on the innocent residents of this city.

      The people of Fullerton are truly taking their city back, and I commend you all for your effort. You have shown that people of Fullerton care about what is right.

      The trolls are pigs (FPD) and their family/friends. They have clearly shown us all here what is wrong with LEO mentality. Their lack of regard for even the most basic decency is the very best argument for disbanding the FPD.

      I fully expect them to keep it up. It’s really all they have.

  57. John Doe :
    I suggest you look up and review..Qualified Immunity, asshole. For your info, Wikipedia it.

    I suggest YOU tell it to the DA!

    Asshole.

  58. Thanks Elaine & Disgusted. It would be nice if there was a single defender of the murderers on here who could do something besides attack the character of Kelly Thomas or his family. But they know the officers involved are murderers. Hell, the corrupt legal system tries to let these dirty cops get away with murder. Just look at how few officers get charged with murder after their reckless, brutal, ignorant behavior leads to an unnecessary death. The case of Johannes Mehserle is a perfect example. The guy “accidentally” shoots a kid in the head execution style and gets off with a slap on the wrist. Despite the fact that the legal system protects corrupt cops, Ramos and Cicinelli’s apologists still try to claim they are getting a bad wrap. There’s a reason they never cite any facts when trying to defend police brutality. Well two reasons actually. One their ignorant. And two, if they bothered to do any research they’d know cops are much more likely to murder perpetrators or suspected perpetrators than vice-versa. Granted, those of us who are white, middle/upper class, and have a college education don’t generally have to worry about being beaten or murdered by dirty cops. We just have to tolerate them giving cell phone tickets after they get through talking while driving, putting on their sirens just long enough to run red lights, getting six figures without a Bachelors, knocking cell phones out of our hands and arresting us if we try to film them breaking the law, etc., etc. Like you said Disgusted, the officers in Fullerton are scared shitless of harassing people right now because of the laundry list of charges/lawsuits they currently face. It appears Fullerton is ripe for a regime change. I just hope the decent, honest officers will break the code of silence and stop supporting the rapists, murderers, and other trash that has made the FPD the laughingstock of the state and cost the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars.

      1. @John Doe, You are wrong about that; don’t be DEAD wrong. Pack your bags, get the kids and LEAVE your murdering husband. NOW.

        1. @JFA, No, I don’t want to leave now. Steve Gregory has so much more and I want to be around to savor the moment when it happens.

      2. The world is laughing at the Fullerton kops. And the Sheriff’s Department personnel are laughing the loudest!

    1. Brandon: There are two aspects to blaming Ron and the Thomases: one of them is an attempt to exonerate guilty perpetrators. The other aspect is the near-IMPOSSIBILITY of keeping someone like Kelly off of the ground. Anyone who has ever attempted to keep a schizophrenic claustrophobic person from sleeping on the ground knows how incredibly difficult this is.

    1. @John Doe, You are living with a husband who is a sociopathic murderer!! He gets his sadistic thrills by viciously bashing in heads/eyes/faces/throats, etc. and then he laughs about it!! I strongly recommend that you should take the kids and leave BEFORE you all end up on the coroner’s autopsy table.

  59. I am sure that Ramos’ kids are safer with him than your kids with you. At least he is not on this blog talking shit like you. Hater!!

  60. Very nice piece on the Kelly Thomas Art Exhibit. The author, a really cool young woman named Lille, told me that if enough people “like” this event and share it on FB or Twitter, it will be turned into a short documentary. If you thought it was shit, don’t do us any favors as it’s unfair to the other stories with whom this is competing. Don’t hit the like button more than once from different computers either. We own the moral highground and we win this baby walking away without any bullshit. Thanks!! http://www.kcet.org/arts/artbound/counties/orange/justice-for-kelly-art-show.html#.T-x9hAPRxv4.facebook

  61. @ Elaine: I think all intelligent, reasonable people understand the cops were solely to blame for Kelly’s death and that it is impossible to force a schizophrenic adult to seek the help they need. I’m not sure if the cop apologists are just ignorant or if they honestly believe the Thomas’ were to blame. I’m guessing a little of both. Regardless, the Thomas’ were much better parents than the Cicinelli’s or Ramos’, based on how their children treated other human beings. It’s ironic, but not surprising that many of the cop supporters are religious. I wonder if their God condones beating a man to death for kicks.

    1. Revelation 21:8 puts the cowards first in line for the lake of fire. The mind screw of a known paranoid schizo, dazed, confused and disoriented homeless man, the bullying and subsequent torture and murder is as cowardly as you can get. This was way beyond David vs Goliath.

    2. Brandon: Yes, intelligent, reasonable people will blame the police for what happened. Unfortunately there are some people who are naive about what it takes to get a schizophrenic claustrophobic into housing. Wrong Guy has suffered through this, my ex-husband Paul and I have been through this, and you probably have been too.

  62. Very nice piece on the Kelly Thomas Art Exhibit. The author, a really cool young woman named Lille, told me that if enough people “like” this event and share it on FB or Twitter, it will be turned into a short documentary. If you thought it was shit, don’t do us any favors as it’s unfair to the other stories with whom this is competing. Don’t hit the like button more than once from different computers either. We own the moral highground and we win this baby walking away without any bullshit. Thanks!!

    https://www.facebook.com/Justice4KellyThomas/posts/202262959899435

  63. Doe, so I ask myself, why would someone using a fake name (more on that later), my name is listed here, so is my personal info in the press release above, spend his days attempting to bash a family that is still in mourning over the murder of their son and is only days away from the first anniversary date of their son’s horrible death? Is that fun for you? If your children (god forbid) knew that this was how their father chooses to spend his days, would they be proud of you, or ashamed of you, do they even acknowledge you? Would they call you a sick twisted F*ck and dream about the day that they are free from your abusive insecurity?
    Mr. Doe, do ever wonder why you have no friends, or is that too painful to try to figure out? Let me help. Because your hypothetical kids were right, you are indeed and sick twisted f*ck, and dude, on the list of things people look for in a solid friend, a buddy etc., “sick twisted f*ck” is way down the list, somewhere past defecates on himself. Normal people do not take joy in seeing a clearly confused and passive human toyed with, tortured, and extinguished for nothing. That is a club you joined and most others do not. Your knee jerk reaction, your sadistic impulse, is not to be outraged by the actions of the killers, but instead to bring more sorrow on to the family. The question is why. Why would someone, too scared to give his own name, choose to invest so much time in a lame attempt to bring misery and pain on to others that he has never even met? Don’t worry bother, I’m not asking you to figure something this complicated out, I’m here to help, remember? ARE YOU READY?
    YOU ARE ENVIOUS OF THE LOVE THAT KELLY THOMAS HAD FOR HIS FATHER RON because you know in your heart of hearts, that there is no way in hell that ANYONE on this planet; you wife, your x wife, your friends (aka people you work with) or your hypothetical children (FYI – I’m not insulting your children when I call them hypothetical, with that word I am simply saying that I’m not sure you have any) , who in their last moments on this earth, when they are being beaten and they know that they will die, would ever even considering turning to a sick f*ck like you. Kelly did, he turned to his father. Get it? Ron was his son’s go to, and your are everybody’s obligations, and that really really hurts, and when dim witted cowards get hurt, they lash out. To repeat, you act like a jackass on here because of the realization, that even your own wife, your own daughter, and our own mother, would never expect a coward like you to be there for them, while Kelly knew his dad would be. And every time you see Ron Thomas taking on the council, raising money for the homeless, speaking at seminars about mental illness, and fighting the injustice that befell his son, he is answering Kelly’s call for help, and you don’t like how that makes you feel.
    There you have it my little shivering lad, this is why you hate Ron Thomas, and this why I feel perfectly comfortably speaking to you in this manner. YOU DON’T REALLY MATTER at least not enough to hate, and certainly not enough to love. See, even I don’t hate you brother, If I hated you, I would not have diagnosed you pro bono like I just dd. Now be a good lad and work on those issues, I for one will not even read your reply, i got stuff to do. But seriously, If you ever want to meet with me and ask me question about Kelly, or why you and I see the world so differently, I will be happy to do so, but in the meantime please go f*ck yourself.
    (P.S. John Doe of “X” started using this unknown missing person name in 1977 as his stage name, and it was just barely clever back then)
    best wishes,
    Baxter

    1. Steve the point people make when they bash Ron is that we should all extend the olive branch to families and friends that we no longer talk to or attempt reconciliation with. Ron thought about Kelly but other than that was done with him forever. Now he wishes he would have tried harder to help him. He’s sad. He feels guilty. We all would. Once he gets his $20 million I’m sure he will enjoy life but still feel guilty. Cycle of life. Hug an old friend. Try to help. Do our best.

  64. Check again, if you can not, or more likely, will not use your real name. There won’t be any Balls there.

  65. Thank you Mr. Schindler. You see my old friend, when we use our real names we have the good fortune of running into one another on the web. Hope you have a good weekend.

    1. Whatever? you know what I like about “Whatever”? It is always the last resort of someone who loses an argument.
      Let me give you an example you may remember.
      Coward John Doe says, “The Earth is flat. and Snake Handling is the path to true religion.”
      Suddenly the Third Grader in line with you at Comic Con says. “No, Spider Man we learned last year that the earth is round and another snake handler died.” Safely disguised in your brand new Spider Man suit to hide your identity,
      Coward John Doe says……. “Whatever.”
      This may be painfully familiar to you sorry to have to bring it back up but, if the best you can do is….Whatever?
      The Bax Boy and I win. You give up way too easy, Coward John Doe

      1. Whatever, ok you win. I didnt know this was a game. But if you want to win. Go right ahead. Ok you won, whatever!

        1. And Coward John Doe does the cowardly thing and gives up. No fun being in a battle of wits with the unarmed. I’m done with this gutless fool.

  66. I think JD is a woman Steve, or maybe a closet gay man. She was talking about how cute and cuddly cops are, plus other bloggers have noted she is Cicinelli’s sister or wife. But everything else you said was dead on. Afraid to use real identity, no moral compass, likely raised in a loveless family that discriminated against minorities, way too much free time on her hands, jealous that Kelly’s family showed him love, while her own family was cold and heartless. Most likely a victim of physical and/or sexual abuse. And worst of all, never has any facts to report, just attempts to antagonize the people who join together to seek justice and offer condolences for such a senseless, heinous act. Note he/she never writes more than two or three sentences yet posts more than just about anyone. A sure sign of nothing good to say and all day to say it. Go fry up some bacon Mrs. Doe, you know you love pigs. 😉

    1. Think what you want Brandon. You can make me a man in drag if you want. But whoever I am. You will never know. And that is what is great about this blog. I could be Chief Sellers for all you know.

  67. Oh and Mrs C., I mean Mrs. D, you should really be a little nicer to me. I am the only non-officer on here who stuck up for Jay when everyone was calling him cyclops. I mean the guy can’t help his physical impairment. He could have done something about the psychological/emotional one before he bludgeoned Kelly’s face for kicks though. But I know he was just getting even with the man who took his eye all those years ago. Maybe that’s what makes it ok in your deranged head. Judging by the religious nature of beggarsforjay.com, I’m willing to bet the whole Cicinelli clan believes in an eye for an eye, no pun intended. If only they had let Kelly Thomas off with just a gouged eye. We wouldn’t even be on here conversing.

  68. Next time you need the cops at your door take a look at the ignorant libral words you put on here. See if you think the same thing after they save your life.

    1. Only the libral words? how about the republican or librartarian words?

      Next time you see deductions from your paycheck, if you get one, see if you think the same way about coppers after they beat you for no reason or demand to search your car for no reason.

  69. Right. Make sure to tell them that when someone is breaking into your home and you call them for help. Because I guarentee that this cracked out homeless man could care less. Just like all of the hypocrites who care so much about him now would have walked across the street if he was heading in their direction.

  70. They will not even investigate theft/property crimes under a certain amount, unless of course you’re related to a cop or politician. As usual another cop/cop apologist making up facts. Kelly was not on crack or any drugs at the time. He had schizophrenia. Not sure what mental illnesses Ramos and Cicinelli had. I’m guessing some PTSD and conduct disorder. And avoiding a homeless person is nowhere near the same as instigating a fight, threatening to fuck someone up, and then murdering them.

  71. It’s funny how people with no regard for the rights of minorities call everyone they disagree with liberals.

  72. Just scrolled up to see a crack about how we all know Kelly was no attorney. I would not be surprised if he had more college education and a higher IQ than Cicinelli or Ramos.

      1. Just like Nathaniel Ayers who went to Julliard but of course if he happened to wander into Fullerton he might have been beaten to death by the good old boys at the FPD.

    1. One can be the smartest person in the world, and still be emotionally stunted.

      I doubt whether his IQ is even near 100.

    2. Ted Bundy IQ=123

      Hitler IQ=141

      Unibomber IQ=165

      So whats your point stupid Hoggy? and stupid JD?

      It takes a real genius to sit on someone’s chest, ignore his cries and smother him to death, then beat the person unconscious and choking in his own blood, and not tell the paramedics someone is down after they arrive at the scene.

  73. As someone who gives IQ tests for a living I would be very surprised if Jay’s IQ was much over 100. There are some very intelligent law enforcement officers out there, but most of them graduate to CHP’s, detectives and the like. I read somewhere they do not like to hire people with high IQ’s to be PD officers because they would be less likely to blindly enforce unjust laws and use brute force to gain compliance. Not sure if it’s true, but makes a lot of sense.

    @ Merijoe: Good point. Whether he had a high IQ or not, he displayed sociopathic tendencies when he bashed in an already beaten and subdued 130lb mentally ill man’s head over and over again with cold precision and calculation, refused to get him help, and pretended like there was a fight for the DAR. I doubt he was as intelligent as the men you listed, but just as crazy and heartless.

  74. At least he slept under the freeway knowing he had not beaten anyone to death. More than I can say for your boys.

  75. Hog’s claim his IQ remained @ 148 after the shooting incident displays his lack of understanding of how intelligence quotient works. IQ does not change because of a traumatic event, and none of the subtests would be affected by emotional trauma. I give Emotionally Disturbed children who have been through very traumatic events (molestation, domestic violence, etc.) IQ tests and they tend to be some of the highest scorers. As for vision, as long as you had sufficient vision to read the questions it would have no bearing on score. If not, you would be given an alternative assessment.

  76. Mrs. Doe, if you are in fact Chief Sellers you need to tell the people who created that rancid page to defend you they would be well served to stop censoring comments. They’ve had like 3 posts in the last 6 months.

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