Power to the People, their Courage, and their Cameras


The Killing of Kelly Thomas & The Power of New Media by Paul Detrick of Reason.com analyzes the effectiveness of amateur video, internet communication and the perseverance of ordinary citizens against the intransigence of institutional power.

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Note CSUF Professor Jarrett Lovell’s assessment of the Fullerton Police Department’s Public Information Officer.

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  1. #1 by Friendly Neighbor on September 22, 2011

    We are getting together a group called C.O.P. Citizens On Patrol. We will be walking the streets with our cameras protecting the rights of the citizens.

  2. #2 by LeRoy Murray on September 22, 2011

    A law needs to be passed in Calif. that specifically says that it’s legal for any citizen to take video or still pictures, or audio recordings of any public employee when on the job, including police officers.
    That will hopefully eliminate abuse such as Mr. Mam with cops thinking it’s illegal and trying to stop the recording, and committing false arrest on those they are trying to intimidate.

  3. #3 by We Are All One on September 22, 2011

    This is a great piece. I’ve been sharing it everywhere.

  4. #4 by LeRoy Murray on September 22, 2011

    Excellent idea, I’ll help.

  5. #5 by Chris Thompson on September 22, 2011

    Goodrich, if they were having great difficulty in subduing Kelly Thomas, it was because they were getting tired. If you had seen the video tape at this point, I have no words to describe what kind of a person you are. If not, I could forgive the comment.

  6. #6 by whocares? on September 22, 2011

    I, for one, tend to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to people’s real intent and actions. I don’t think the three councilmen facing the recall are as evil as people portray them to be. However, what is troubling is when the moment arises for them to speak for what is right and true, they have been quite adamantly silent; choosing to respond according to the best self serving legal maneuvers and council of attorneys. Again, I don’t think they are truly as devilish or corrupt as what people here and elsewhere have made them out to be, but definitely their public response and handling of the case gives impression of indifference, apathy, defensiveness, and outright incompetence. On that alone, I think the recall is justified. Lets try to stick to the facts of their job performance and refrain from using emotional appeal to vilify them, because that would make us the accusers look less credible and have less influence. just my 2 pennies.

  7. #7 by AP on September 22, 2011

    Murder conviction could be tough in homeless death

    By THOMAS WATKINS
    Associated Press

    LOS ANGELES (AP) — Legal observers say winning a conviction against a California police officer charged with murder could be tough because courts and jurors have an instinctive sympathy for law enforcement officers.

    As a result, Loyola University law professor Dane Ciolino says, convictions for on-duty police killings are exceedingly rare, even when video and audio evidence depicts a killing in graphic detail.

    Orange County prosecutors charged Fullerton police Officer Manuel Ramos on Wednesday with second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter in the July 5 killing of Kelly Thomas, a 37-year-old homeless man with schizophrenia.

    Police Cpl. Jay Cicinelli was charged with involuntary manslaughter and excessive force. He has pleaded not guilty.

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POLICE_HOMELESS_DEATH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

  8. #8 by whocares? on September 22, 2011

    good idea :)

  9. #9 by Jane H on September 22, 2011

    Goodrich is a fat slob.

    They really need someone who cleans up a little better, you know?

    Almost every big organizations, especially government, has a PIO, and from my own experience in LA Co, they are really there for damage control. Some are better at than others. That Fullerton spokesgerm is dumb too. What’s worse is that he thinks the public is dumb too.

  10. #10 by whocares? on September 22, 2011

    ugh…. it would simply be disgusting if they are acquitted.

  11. #11 by TheFullertonWatcher on September 22, 2011

    There doesn’t need to be a law. Every all that states have tried to put in place limiting photos or video of law enforcement has been over turned. They are unconstitutional!

  12. #12 by TheFullertonWatcher on September 22, 2011

    @chris have you seen the size of of Manuel? Or Jay? They are huge. Kelly Thomas was a malnuturished homeless man. Even if tired just one of them laying on Thomas would have been enough to subdue him.

    Also shouldn’t we have some sort of standards for our officers? These guys are fat! It’s not the kind of rolemodels I want for my kids! Te new
    Chief needs to bring fitness standards.

  13. #13 by Kelly Thomas: O.C.'s thoughts on the charges on September 22, 2011

    “I feel sorry for the family, but these things do happen. I don’t think there was intent, but sometimes things get out of hand. … Things get out of control and this kid was a victim of circumstance.” – Richard Ybarra, San Clemente, retired Orange County district attorney’s investigative officer. “I was so sorry for Kelly and upset that so many people were turning into vigilantes. … I feel sorry for the family. … I don’t think the police chief should have been asked to resign or the City Council either or the mayor. … They weren’t involved.” – Linda Ybarra, San Clemente, retired Orange County marshal

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/thomas-318443-thoughts-charges.html?pic=4

  14. #14 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    2 thumbs up, way up!

  15. #15 by leo on September 22, 2011

    Friendly Neighbor :
    We are getting together a group called C.O.P. Citizens On Patrol. We will be walking the streets with our cameras protecting the rights of the citizens.

    GOOD LUCK BE AWARE THAT IF YOU START RECORDING THE ANIMALS AT PLAY, THEY WILL ARREST YOU AND TAKE YOUR PROPERTY AWAY FROM YOU AND FRAME YOU. THE VIOLENCE AND ABUSE OF OUR HUMAN RIGHTS WILL INTENSIFY.

  16. #16 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    Typical responses I would expect from the out of touch blue hairs of law enforcement’s yesteryear.

  17. #17 by Reality Is on September 22, 2011

    By Melissa MacBride

    FULLERTON, Calif. (KABC) — A relative of the Fullerton officer charged with murder in the Kelly Thomas case says people shouldn’t rush to judgment.

    After an 11-week-long investigation, Officer Manuel Ramos, 37, and Cpl. Jay Cicinelli, 39, face felonies in the beating death of Kelly Thomas.

    Ramos, who has been with the force for 10 years, is charged with second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter. Cicinelli, who has been with the force for 12 years, is charged with involuntary manslaughter and excessive use of force.

    “They’re innocent until proven guilty,” said Yolanda Gomez, who said Ramos is her nephew. She said she’s shocked by the charges handed down by Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas.

    Cicinelli has pleaded not guilty and is out on bail. Ramos will be arraigned on Monday.

    Ramos’ attorney, John Barnett, said his client was simply doing his job.

    “Officer Ramos did what he was trained to do and he committed no crime,” Barnett said in a statement. “He was confronted with a suspect who was combative and refused to comply with his lawful order. He was non-compliant, resisted and set these tragic events in motion. To charge a peace officer with murder under these circumstances is unprecedented and just wrong.”

    Ramos is being held at Orange County Jail in Santa Ana in lieu of $1 million bail.

    Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas charged Ramos and Cicinelli Wednesday, providing a graphic blow-by-blow account of the July 5 incident at a news conference. The D.A. even used props including latex gloves and a Taser gun and he also recited verbatim quotes recorded on body microphones and surveillance video. Investigators had also interviewed 151 witnesses.

    In the 10-minute-long beating, Ramos is accused of punching Thomas in ribs and holding him down on the ground with one hand on his neck. Prosecutors say when Cicinelli arrived on scene, he kneed Thomas in the head and Tasered him four times and hit Thomas in the face with the butt of the stun gun as Thomas cried out for his father and begged for help.

    Prosecutors say it was Ramos who set in motion the events that led to Thomas’ death.

    As Ramos snapped on a pair of latex gloves and leaned over a confused Thomas, prosecutors say, his body microphone and surveillance tape captured an angry threat: “Now, see my fists? They are getting ready to (expletive) you up.”

    “This declaration was a turning point – a defining moment,” Rackauckas said, as he announced the charges. “Ramos was telling Kelly Thomas that this encounter had changed from a fairly routine police detention into an impending beating at the hands of an angry police officer.”

    The four other officers involved in the incident were not charged but remain on paid administrative leave because the FBI has launched a criminal civil rights probe and an internal investigation is pending.

    The officers were responding to reports that a homeless person was peering into cars and rattling door handles at the Fullerton Bus Depot.

    In response to claims about Ramos, the gloves and the threat, Barnett said his client was using “the lowest type of force.” He said Thomas resisted arrested by kicking and swinging at officers.

    “It was an attempt by the officer to use words not force to get the suspect to do what he’s supposed to do,” he said. “He sought to avoid physical confrontation with words. There was no compliance by Mr. Thomas.”

    Ron Thomas, Kelly Thomas’ father, watched the prosecutor’s news conference on TV with a group of supporters and said he was pleased that Ramos and Cicinelli were charged. He said he feels strongly that the other officers involved should face charges.

    “If the officers did nothing at all, just stood there and watched, they need administrative action because they just stood there and just watched. They didn’t try and stop it,” said Ron Thomas.

    At the Fullerton Transportation Center, a memorial for Kelly Thomas stands in his memory and serves as a symbol of justice sought by his family and supporters in the community.

  18. #18 by We Are All One on September 22, 2011

    Kelly Thomas: O.C.’s thoughts on the charges :
    “I feel sorry for the family, but these things do happen. I don’t think there was intent, but sometimes things get out of hand. … Things get out of control and this kid was a victim of circumstance.” – Richard Ybarra, San Clemente, retired Orange County district attorney’s investigative officer. “I was so sorry for Kelly and upset that so many people were turning into vigilantes. … I feel sorry for the family. … I don’t think the police chief should have been asked to resign or the City Council either or the mayor. … They weren’t involved.” – Linda Ybarra, San Clemente, retired Orange County marshal
    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/thomas-318443-thoughts-charges.html?pic=4

    Yeah, murder happens people, nothing to get upset about .. go about you business, everything is fine :)

    *pukes*

  19. #19 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    The problem isnt a law addressing filming cops, the problem is penal code 148. (a) (1).

    *whispers* They’re not going to arrest you for taping them. They’re going to tell you to “move” or “leave” then when you don’t, its clobbering time.

    They’re probably throw in penal code 69 for good measure.

  20. #20 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    My god. They are inhuman thugs even after they retire.

  21. #21 by 9c1copcar on September 22, 2011

    LEROY MURRAY,

    It is LEGAL to videotape an officer in public, however, when they are engaged in a traffic stop/incident/citizen contact, please give them the space they need to operate safely. Officer safety is their #1 concern, and a citizen getting up in their face for a blow-by-blow account, is not helpful, and will definitely cause the officer to divide his/her attention. This could possibly lead to injuries or worse happening.

  22. #22 by whocares? on September 22, 2011

    lol a wrong can be spun nowadays to right. Even with insurmountable physical hard evidence these cops might actually be acquitted. disgusting.

  23. #23 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    “People shouldn’t rush to judgment” and “Innocent until proven guilty” seems to be a standard talking point when cops are caught committing crimes.

  24. #24 by The Fullerton Harpoon on September 22, 2011

    Yes, how would you like Richard Ybarra working on your case against a cop who beat you up?

  25. #25 by whocares? on September 22, 2011

    i agree. public needs to know video capturing should be done without interfering with law enforcement work; use common sense. video tape the big picture then zoom in on details people! don’t get close.

  26. #26 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    They will be acquitted without a doubt.

    The DA submitted a shitty case full of holes to absolve himself of responsibly and to quiet down protesters. This is also why they’re still getting paid because FPD doesnt want them suing them for “wrongful termination” when they are acquitted.

    In the meanwhile I expect some sort of multi million dollar settlement with Ron between the time this goes to trial and before the verdict to shut him up.

  27. #27 by Stud Lee on September 22, 2011

    Funny how you never hear cops say that about the people THEY arrest.

  28. #28 by truthseeker on September 22, 2011

    If you look closely at those two in the photo you can clearly see that they have something wrong with them. I think their bodies have absorbed too much radiation from their tvs and their microwaved hot pockets. Horrible comments in response to such a horrific tragedy. They resemble the type that would have been wiping the ashes off of their windshields as they got out of church in Nazi Germany when the crematoriums were going full blast. THANK GOD PEOPLE LIKE THAT ARE IN THE MINORITY NOW.

  29. #29 by Oliver Stone on September 22, 2011

    Reason TV is great. As a father the video brought tears to my eyes, it also bought a great deal of anger to me. The police all over this country are out of control. It needs to stop.

  30. #30 by Jt on September 22, 2011

    please post contact info for this!

  31. #31 by Gustavo Arellano on September 22, 2011

    The only problem I had with this piece is that it didn’t mention you guys!!!

  32. #32 by Reality Is on September 22, 2011

    Six months ago, the Anonymous and LulzSec hacktivists looked untouchable, but now they’re dropping like flies. Fox News reports:

    The FBI arrested two alleged members of the hacking collectives LulzSec and Anonymous on Thursday morning in San Francisco and Phoenix … Search warrants were also being executed in New Jersey, Minnesota and Montana. 
    The suspected hacker arrested in California is homeless and alleged to have been involved in the hacking of Santa Cruz County government websites. The person arrested in Arizona is a student at a technical university and allegedly participated in the widely publicized hack against Sony several months ago, the official said.
    We’re going to flag the life of a homeless hacker for a Lifetime special at some point in the not-too-distant future, but in the meantime, it looks like the FBI is making impressive progress with the crackdown on Anonymous and LulzSec.

  33. #33 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    “Officer Ramos did what he was trained to do and he committed no crime,” Barnett said in a statement.

    So they are trained in Escalation and Provocation? He just made the case for disbanding the FPD. Nice work Barnett.

  34. #34 by Jt on September 22, 2011

    No they won’t. Stop spreading fear. Someone I know took photos of a cop doing an “investigation” on the streets of Fullerton just the other day. They were asked to step back but that’s about it. We know our right and we are not afraid to excercise them.

    Fullerton cops, you are being watched and taped. Deal with it.

  35. #35 by Jackson on September 22, 2011

    Dumb cops think that Anonymous is a centralized group or organization. Its not and for that very reason a few stupid people will get caught.

  36. #36 by Wrong Guy on September 22, 2011

    We hear you loud and clear Oli. You oughta come protest with us in front of Fullerton police station, providing you are local.

  37. #37 by Jt on September 22, 2011

    Strongly agree.

    Jarret knows this stuff and is an expert on it. He’s been arrested himself for civil disobedience. He is worth talking to on these issues. He’s been at a couple of street protests too.

  38. #38 by Common Folk Guy on September 22, 2011

    Without a doubt in my mind the FPD is in deep shit. From the top on down,shit rolls down hill and these boys are in it neck deep. Any blind man can see this and they know their shit is in trouble. The arrogance of Goodrich has caught the attention of more then just the common folk who they look down upon as second class punching bags. I know the cops and their kind are reading this so let me just say I’m glad the FBI and other like-minded associations are paying special attention to you now….go ahead and pat yourself on the back because you boys really earned it….LMFAO!!!

  39. #39 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    Fox News, lol.

  40. #40 by Jt on September 22, 2011

    For every one arrested 10 times that number rush to take their place.

    Couldn’t beat them in Egypt. Can’t beat them here. Democracy wins, repression loses, while the US emulates Iran.

  41. #41 by Friendly Neighbor on September 22, 2011

    It’s in the incubation phase at this time. Our plan is to get shirts saying C.O.P. w/ an American flag and a camera in it. Roam the streets of Fullerton and keep a lens at the ready.

  42. #42 by Wrong Guy on September 22, 2011

    That’s true Anon. Typical!

  43. #43 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    The folks with guns and badges are really clogging up the justice the system –
    http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/

  44. #44 by Wrong Guy on September 22, 2011

    They are both built like ‘Bowling Pins’. Especially ramos. He also has a Mr. Potato Head resemblance like a previous blogger stated.

  45. #45 by Anonymous II on September 22, 2011

    No they won’t. Stop spreading fear.

    All cops or just Fullerton PD?

    Because if you think cops in general won’t kick your ass for filming them you are sadly mistaken or lying to yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hl9-YcCAKg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiNOjG-xlPw

    Someone I know took photos of a cop doing an “investigation” on the streets of Fullerton just the other day. They were asked to step back but that’s about it. We know our right and we are not afraid to excercise them.

    At this point Fullerton PD is like a rattle snake without fangs but give them time when the spot light is off them or if you happened to be alone in a dark alley filming them then have your friend tell you how it went.

  46. #46 by Corrupt on September 22, 2011

    http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-20110920-fox6-photojournalist-arrested,0,6130946.story

    Cops hate cameras… even when it is firemen being filmed…

  47. #47 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    Citizens all over the country are getting rid of these corrupt expensive and criminal organizations – http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/01/growing-movement-to-disband-police.html

  48. #48 by Jt on September 22, 2011

    Post a cell # so people can call and give locations whenever we see stuff go down.

    Create a website and ask for more volunteers.

  49. #49 by Mainjet on September 22, 2011

    Lets give them all the consideration that they gave Kelly.

  50. #50 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 22, 2011

    This whole notion that sprung to life probably before T-Rack was even done speaking yesterday, the one about public pressure being credited with getting a do-nothing DA to do what he said he was going to do, and right about when he said he’d do it, is usually supported with nothing more than vague innuendo and outright erroneous information. And yet I think I may have found an example where public pressure probably did move things along. Check this out:

    “Autopsy Results in Fullerton Police Beating Face Potential Delays”

    “…the cause of Thomas’ death would not be made public right away if law enforcement officials ask for a delay to complete their investigation, said Orange County sheriff’s spokesman Jim Amormino….”It’s going to be a while,” Amormino said, “a couple of months to several months. It could be quite a while.” “

    http://voiceofoc.org/oc_north/fullerton/article_4ca218cc-bfbc-11e0-a4e2-001cc4c03286.html

    First I wondered why this guy felt the need to get involved right then? Yeah, the coroner is part of the sheriff’s dept, but it’s not like we ever heard from him again, right? Could it be that the ‘law enforcement officials’ to which Amormino was referring was his own department? I’m thinking this might have been the OCSDs way of publicly lobbying for the City of Fullerton to request the sheriff take over the investigation. Then OCSD could have delayed release of the autopsy for, as he put it ‘months,’ while saying ‘we told you from the beginning it could be quite a while.’

    Those jokers on the Fullerton City Council were probably thus really tempted to bring in the OCSD, but likely could not go that route due to then mounting public pressure, and the DA’s office probably had some input on that as well. Once this story went national on CNN and Fox there was no way it was going to go away even in a few months, and FFF certainly gets credit for giving voice to a movement that seemed to just grow stronger as time passed.

  51. #51 by Jt on September 22, 2011

    Veth Mam. Lawsuit. Chhh-ching. Repeat as necessary

  52. #52 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    LeRoy Murray :
    A law needs to be passed in Calif. that specifically says that it’s legal for any citizen to take video or still pictures, or audio recordings of any public employee when on the job, including police officers.
    That will hopefully eliminate abuse such as Mr. Mam with cops thinking it’s illegal and trying to stop the recording, and committing false arrest on those they are trying to intimidate.

    print part of this
    http://www.ca1.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=10-1764P.01A

  53. #53 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    Corrupt :
    http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-20110920-fox6-photojournalist-arrested,0,6130946.story
    Cops hate cameras… even when it is firemen being filmed…

    Amazing.. Charges need to be pursued by Fox6 for their employee

    Do these people forget who

    Pays them
    who they work for

    what planet they are on?

  54. #54 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 22, 2011

    I always heard it was ‘especially when it is firemen being filmed…’

  55. #55 by ➩➡➩➡➩➡➩➡ on September 22, 2011

  56. #56 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    Oliver Stone :
    Reason TV is great. As a father the video brought tears to my eyes, it also bought a great deal of anger to me. The police all over this country are out of control. It needs to stop.

    “authorized to use deadly force”
    “just doing their job”

  57. #59 by ➩➡➩➡➩➡➩➡ on September 22, 2011

    http://www.pixiq.com/contributors/carlosmiller

    Page after page of cops trying not to get caught on camera or just simply abusing anyone with a camera that would dare to catch the police doing something wrong.

  58. #60 by Jack on September 22, 2011

    The cops charged in the Kelly Thomas case should have been charged with Penal Code Section 206, Torture. Section 206 reads:

    Every person who, with the intent to cause cruel or extreme pain and suffering for the purpose of revenge, extortion, persuasion, or for any sadistic purpose, inflicts great bodily injury as defined in Section 12022.7 upon the person of another, is guilty of torture.
    The crime of torture does not require any proof that the victim suffered pain.

    California Penal Code section 206.1 states:

    Torture is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for a term of life.

  59. #61 by ➩➡➩➡➩➡➩➡ on September 22, 2011

    Definitions of domestic terrorismThe statutory definition of domestic terrorism in the United States has changed many times over the years; also, it can be argued that acts of domestic terrorism have been occurring since long before any legal definition was set forth.

    According to a memo produced by the FBI’s Terrorist Research and Analytical Center in 1994, domestic terrorism was defined as “the unlawful use of force or violence, committed by a group(s) of two or more individuals, against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”[2]

    Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: “(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) appear to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.”[3]

    READS LIKE IT COULD BE A CASE OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM TOO

  60. #62 by VS on September 22, 2011

    Except in the argument of the two cops vs Kelly’s size and their claims that they had difficulty subduing him, the weight and appearance have no bearing on this discussion. I have seen comments regarding their appearance, weight and ethnicity.
    It is the very truth that all citizens have equal rights regardless of their appearance (i.e Kelly) that makes references to weight, appearance and race distasteful. So, the 2 cops look like fat slobs. So what? I hate to break it to you, but the world does not belong to the ‘perfect’.
    All the comments regarding, not only the cops, but council members, etc appearance are juvenile and do not bolster the discussion.

  61. #63 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 22, 2011

    More likely is that both sides will want to get back to work and forget this ever happened as quickly a possible. Notice that FOX6 didn’t say that it asked for an apology in its letter, just that the citations Fillinger received be cancelled…

  62. #64 by My Username Rocks on September 22, 2011

    I’m surprised no one has played the race card and claimed that Ramos was charged more severely than Cicinelli because Ramos is Hispanic. lol

  63. #65 by We Are All One on September 22, 2011

    9c1copcar :
    LEROY MURRAY,
    It is LEGAL to videotape an officer in public, however, when they are engaged in a traffic stop/incident/citizen contact, please give them the space they need to operate safely. Officer safety is their #1 concern, and a citizen getting up in their face for a blow-by-blow account, is not helpful, and will definitely cause the officer to divide his/her attention. This could possibly lead to injuries or worse happening.

    Duh. Goes without saying.

  64. #66 by My Username Rocks on September 22, 2011

    Also, T-Rack said that a dcitizen can defend themselves against unlawful force.

    Well, if you start trading blows with a cop, what the hell do you think is going to happen?

    “I had to shoot him; he was going for my gun!”

  65. #67 by Hick Jones on September 22, 2011

    How do Ah turn this dang computah on so Ah kin join up with these “democracy” folks? It sounds like it might be a good idea!

  66. #68 by V8 on September 22, 2011

    Look here you over sensitive weenie, you need to take that broom stick out of your ass and settle down.

    Everyone here can and will openly voice their opinion for or against Fullerton and the Kelly Thomas beating. There is no “decorum” you pansy.

    Don’t like it?

    Stick around or leave.

    I don’t give a shit.

  67. #69 by MeYou on September 22, 2011

    Kelly Thomas: O.C.’s thoughts on the charges :
    “I feel sorry for the family, but these things do happen. I don’t think there was intent, but sometimes things get out of hand. … Things get out of control and this kid was a victim of circumstance.” – Richard Ybarra, San Clemente, retired Orange County district attorney’s investigative officer. “I was so sorry for Kelly and upset that so many people were turning into vigilantes. … I feel sorry for the family. … I don’t think the police chief should have been asked to resign or the City Council either or the mayor. … They weren’t involved.” – Linda Ybarra, San Clemente, retired Orange County marshal
    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/thomas-318443-thoughts-charges.html?pic=4

    the mentality we will see during trial

    “dumb punk asked for it”

    sigh /cry

    I cried yesterday and many days for a man I never knew who was my brother and a fellow human being tortured like a rabid animal

    scared to death
    crying for his father
    crying for God
    Crying for Oxygen
    Crying in vain WHILE FOUR OF SIX OFFICERS STOOD AND SOLD TICKETS TO THE EXECUTION?

    4 of 6 NO CHARGES.. what planet do you want me to believe I am on?

    or will you all tell me the DA did a terrific job..

    **DA knows Psycho Sinny will get off and donut face will maybe serve a year somewhere

    all for torturing and murdering a citizen of the USA in front of many other citizens who begged them to stop torturing him

    OH>. and since July 5th
    all 6 have been receiving their monthly salaries and health benefits and retirement and pension plans paid into

    and they will have FREE topnotch Legal Support

    How do they defend torture?

  68. #70 by We Are All One on September 22, 2011

    Jack :
    The cops charged in the Kelly Thomas case should have been charged with Penal Code Section 206, Torture. Section 206 reads:
    Every person who, with the intent to cause cruel or extreme pain and suffering for the purpose of revenge, extortion, persuasion, or for any sadistic purpose, inflicts great bodily injury as defined in Section 12022.7 upon the person of another, is guilty of torture.
    The crime of torture does not require any proof that the victim suffered pain.
    California Penal Code section 206.1 states:
    Torture is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for a term of life.

    He was tortured .. horribly. It’s heartbreaking, nauseating and disgusting what they did to Kelly. Poor baby :,,(

    [[[HUGS]]] to Ron and his family.

  69. #71 by MeYou on September 22, 2011

    ➩➡➩➡➩➡➩➡ :
    Definitions of domestic terrorismThe statutory definition of domestic terrorism in the United States has changed many times over the years; also, it can be argued that acts of domestic terrorism have been occurring since long before any legal definition was set forth.
    According to a memo produced by the FBI’s Terrorist Research and Analytical Center in 1994, domestic terrorism was defined as “the unlawful use of force or violence, committed by a group(s) of two or more individuals, against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”[2]
    Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: “(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) appear to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.”[3]
    READS LIKE IT COULD BE A CASE OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM TOO

    don’t let Goodyear Blimp spokesperson see this.. He will start writing tickets to honkers for domestic terrorism

  70. #72 by ExPat ExLawyer on September 22, 2011

    LA Times: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/09/la-sheriff-shootings-unarmed-people.html

    It is a national problem. Unfortunately, the MSM is busy making excuses for them and both parties want to appear to be into “law and order.” Typical cops are the opposite of law and order. And yes, I said typical. The problem is not a few bad apples. Until we realize it’s endemic, the sooner we might make an iota of progress.

  71. #73 by ExPat ExLawyer on September 22, 2011

    Great post, MeYou. It sums up everything.

  72. #74 by One for the books on September 22, 2011

    Institutional media, for the most part, is a joke!!!

  73. #75 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    My brother works for the Sheriff’s department and I know for a fact that deputies are told by superiors to always say that someone is reaching for their waistband for a possible weapon if they run.

    This is especially prevalent in the East LA, Compton and Lynwood stations.

    I’ve met a lot of the guys who work at those stations and sometimes its hard to tell the difference between them and gang members also sexual harassment against female deputies is just horrendous.

  74. #76 by The Orange County Register on September 22, 2011

    Officer jailed in Kelly Thomas death isolated

    Ramos is scheduled to enter a plea on Monday and is being held in lieu of $1 million bail. He was being kept in isolation at the jail because of earlier death threats, the high-profile nature of the case and his status as a police officer, sheriff’s spokesman Jim Amormino said.

    http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-318392-ramos-officer.html

  75. #77 by OC Weekly on September 22, 2011

    Where Things Stand A Day After The D.A. Charged Two Fullerton Policemen In The Beating Death of Kelly Thomas

    As for Ron Thomas and “Kelly’s Army,” the fight is still on. They’re still celebrating yesterday’s decision, of course, but now they have a new target — the four officers who weren’t charged. “I want to go after the other four on administrative leave. We need to keep the pressure on, big time. They’re guilty by association,” Thomas said. Although one of their main demands was action from the D.A., Kelly’s Army will still protest this Saturday in front of the police department, Thomas said, and focus on the other four officers.

    http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2011/09/where_things_stand_a_day_after.php

  76. #78 by MeYou on September 22, 2011

    The Orange County Register :
    Officer jailed in Kelly Thomas death isolated
    Ramos is scheduled to enter a plea on Monday and is being held in lieu of $1 million bail. He was being kept in isolation at the jail because of earlier death threats, the high-profile nature of the case and his status as a police officer, sheriff’s spokesman Jim Amormino said.
    http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-318392-ramos-officer.html

    Wait a minute.. what

    4 TASERS shots
    8 BLOWS TO THE SKULL AND FACE WITH A TASER
    KNEE DROPS to his LUNGS AND THROAT

    and he gets 25,000 bail.. total $2,500??

    and the other cop is held for One Mil??

    crazy

  77. #79 by SDLocal on September 22, 2011

    “Things get out of control and this kid was a victim of circumstance.” – Richard Ybarra, San Clemente, retired Orange County district attorney’s investigative officer.

    This is intolerable. OC law enforcement is looking less like a profession and more like a brain disease every day.

    Kelly is no “kid,” and he isn’t a victim of circumstance. Kelly is a murder victim.

    Just when you think you’ve heard it all, some other OC jackass opens his mouth and sets another standard for crude stupidity.

    Excellent post, MeYou.

  78. #80 by NAMI Volunteer on September 22, 2011

    Fullerton needs to wake up and get those people out of office. This was not Involuntary Manslaughter it was First Degree Murder. Officials owe Kelly Thomas that much – even though there may be no way to prove premeditation, they owe him enough to seek it. And by God there are some clever DA’s out there who probably could prove it. When you act as a group against 1 defenseless human being and are trained to know that 1 punch can kill, it’s premeditated murder. There is no justice in this world if we don’t fight for it. Please continue to protest and picket. Do everything you can to send a message that this is unacceptable and will not go severely unpunished.

  79. #81 by leo on September 22, 2011

    MeYou :

    The Orange County Register :
    Officer jailed in Kelly Thomas death isolated
    Ramos is scheduled to enter a plea on Monday and is being held in lieu of $1 million bail. He was being kept in isolation at the jail because of earlier death threats, the high-profile nature of the case and his status as a police officer, sheriff’s spokesman Jim Amormino said.
    http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-318392-ramos-officer.html

    Wait a minute.. what
    4 TASERS shots
    8 BLOWS TO THE SKULL AND FACE WITH A TASER
    KNEE DROPS to his LUNGS AND THROAT
    and he gets 25,000 bail.. total $2,500??
    and the other cop is held for One Mil??
    crazy

    THE FIX IS IN THAT’S WHY. THE D A STAGED THE DOG AND PONY SHOW. A FEW MONTHS FROM NOW THIS WILL BE DROPPED.

  80. #82 by TheFullertonWatcher on September 22, 2011

    Cops should have to maintain physical standards. I saw this for many reasons,
    How can Ramos keep up with a criminal if he runs?
    How can he jump a fence? I don’t think he can run through a wall like the Kool-Aid Man.
    There are a lot of issues that result from being overweight and I don’t think public safety officers should be allowed to become overweight.
    We need standards for those that choose law enforcement.

  81. #83 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 22, 2011

    “If the officers did nothing at all, just stood there and watched, they need administrative action because they just stood there and just watched. They didn’t try and stop it,” said Ron Thomas.”

    I agree with Mr. Thomas completely. He’s a smart man, has talked personally with T-Rack, heard and understood the explanation for why the facts of the case and the evidence don’t support conviction (not charges, they could be charged), of the others.

    But clearly they didn’t do what they were supposed to do in not attempting to intervene when Cpl Cicinelli, their superior officer, absolutely lost control. They need to be disciplined to the full extent allowed under their union contracts, up to and including being fired. And the officer who was watching on the pole camera as well.

  82. #84 by leo on September 22, 2011

    The Orange County Register :
    Officer jailed in Kelly Thomas death isolated
    Ramos is scheduled to enter a plea on Monday and is being held in lieu of $1 million bail. He was being kept in isolation at the jail because of earlier death threats, the high-profile nature of the case and his status as a police officer, sheriff’s spokesman Jim Amormino said.
    http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-318392-ramos-officer.html

    ISOLATED MEANS CABLE TV, CONJUGAL VISITS WITH HIS BOYFRIEND AND CATERED FOOD BOOZE DRUGS AND INTERNET AND CELL PHONE. THE POLICE UNION IS EXTORTING CASH FROM ALL THEIR CLIENTS ON THE STREET.

  83. #85 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    Steven Segal should be the new chief!!

  84. #86 by NAMI Volunteer on September 22, 2011

    “The victims of the violence are black and white, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown. They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. No one – no matter where he lives or what he does – can be certain whom next will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on, in this country of ours.

    Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr’s cause has ever been stilled by an assassin’s bullet. No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil disorders. A sniper is only a coward, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, or uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of the people.

    Whenever any American’s life is taken by another American unnecessarily – whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of law – by one man or by a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence – whenever we tear at the fabric of our lives which another man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and his children, whenever we do this then the whole nation is degraded.” – RFK 4/5/68

  85. #87 by leo on September 22, 2011

  86. #88 by Just The Way It Is on September 22, 2011

    I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me if you showed a conspiracy between a bar owner and a cop to get rid of a problem by cooking up a fake report of criminal activity you would have the sort of collusion that could push to premeditation.

    DA have done it with a lot less. If Kelly were an undercover cop who got shot up in a sting-gone-wrong the guy who plugged him would be on his way to death row.

  87. #89 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    With all this talk about cameras, I think I remember on another story the idea of linking or logging on a camera at any given time.

    The public can access the live city council meeting and that’s great, why can’t we access the bus depot camera if we want?

    Why not a live feed to any city camera?
    If it’s public property, why not give the public 24/7 access?

  88. #90 by leo on September 22, 2011

    Anonymous :
    With all this talk about cameras, I think I remember on another story the idea of linking or logging on a camera at any given time.
    The public can access the live city council meeting and that’s great, why can’t we access the bus depot camera if we want?
    Why not a live feed to any city camera?
    If it’s public property, why not give the public 24/7 access?

    THEY DON’T WANT TO BE CAUGHT.

  89. #91 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 22, 2011

    Sounds good, except for one little problem, that’s not a winnable charge, not in a million years, that is unless the jury were made up entirely of frequent posters to FFF, including me. In case it’s not clear, I’d love to see Ramos and Cicinelli get life.

    I’ll be very happy if Ramos gets 15 years to life.

    And somewhat happy to see Cicinelli get four, but I’d like to have had a couple of counts of Assault with a Deadly Weapon along with the Great Bodily Injury enhancement to tack on a few more years in prison for that very bad one-eyed man.

  90. #92 by We Are All One on September 22, 2011

    MeYou :

    The Orange County Register :
    Officer jailed in Kelly Thomas death isolated
    Ramos is scheduled to enter a plea on Monday and is being held in lieu of $1 million bail. He was being kept in isolation at the jail because of earlier death threats, the high-profile nature of the case and his status as a police officer, sheriff’s spokesman Jim Amormino said.
    http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-318392-ramos-officer.html

    Wait a minute.. what
    4 TASERS shots
    8 BLOWS TO THE SKULL AND FACE WITH A TASER
    KNEE DROPS to his LUNGS AND THROAT
    and he gets 25,000 bail.. total $2,500??
    and the other cop is held for One Mil??
    crazy

    Yes, it’s called having friends in high places. Disgusting.

  91. #93 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    leo :

    Anonymous :With all this talk about cameras, I think I remember on another story the idea of linking or logging on a camera at any given time.The public can access the live city council meeting and that’s great, why can’t we access the bus depot camera if we want?Why not a live feed to any city camera?If it’s public property, why not give the public 24/7 access?

    THEY DON’T WANT TO BE CAUGHT.

  92. #94 by We Are All One on September 22, 2011

    Anonymous :
    With all this talk about cameras, I think I remember on another story the idea of linking or logging on a camera at any given time.
    The public can access the live city council meeting and that’s great, why can’t we access the bus depot camera if we want?
    Why not a live feed to any city camera?
    If it’s public property, why not give the public 24/7 access?

    Only people with authority can be trusted with that information. Big Brother needs to keep us in line. I mean what if one of us lowly citizens beats someone to death, won’t that come in handy?

  93. #95 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    leo,

    IMHO, This could make a real difference; pass a law to try and get “on demand” access to every camera that the city owns via any internet connection.

  94. #96 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    Can you guys give me a real reason we should not be able to access public space on demand?

  95. #97 by We Are All One on September 22, 2011

    “Wait a minute.. what
    4 TASERS shots
    8 BLOWS TO THE SKULL AND FACE WITH A TASER
    MeYou: “KNEE DROPS to his LUNGS AND THROAT
    and he gets 25,000 bail.. total $2,500??
    and the other cop is held for One Mil??
    crazy”

    And besides, he didn’t instigate it, he just finished it and he’s already lost an eye, he deserves a break, the poor guy had suffered enough, don’t ya think? .. *rolls eyes*

  96. #98 by MeYou on September 22, 2011

    I saw nothing whatsoever to celebrate about yesterday… I felt like we were being called sheeple when he only charged two of them and when he set bail at such embarrassingly low levels

    Now that they were charged their status as cops, police, LEO’s etc.. shouldn’t mean shit when it comes to BAIL

    Did Jay Cincinelli really get to leave the jail by only paying $2500 after he tortured and murdered a US citizen?

  97. #99 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 22, 2011

    Yes, if it could be proven the cop and the bar owner conspired to murder Thomas, absolutely, but if the ‘conpiracy’ just involved something like ‘let’s get this homeless fellow to move on’ or even ‘let’s get this homeless fellow to move on by beating on him a bit,’ no, probably not.

  98. #100 by WJRob on September 22, 2011

    Sadly, I agree with quite a few of you, these two cops will walk away with a slap on the wrist and life will go on as usual. I hate believing this is what will happen, but I do.

  99. #101 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    Power To The People Notes: Jaycee Dugard
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44629763/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/?gt1=43001
    Also, Who gets the money from all those cops and
    prison shows on TV? The prisons, cops, and unions? Nationwide boycott of their sponsors?

  100. #102 by ibon on September 22, 2011

    “The officers were responding to reports that a homeless person was peering into cars and rattling door handles at the Fullerton Bus Depot.”

    Uhhhhhh…..

  101. #103 by Answer to #1 on September 22, 2011

    Everybody is all gun ho to do this and do that – but where were all these people when Kelly was on the street begging for money? How many of you passed him by and grabbed your children so that he would not get close to them or crossed the street so you would not have to deal with him. And no a father should not have to loose his son like this but then again he was the one who threw him out. Of course he did not that the moneyh that was offered why should he he’s holding off for alot more which he should but then again how is he going to use this money. Will he use it to help the homeless or those with mental illness? And how many time did his mohter call the police to get her son off her porsch because he would not leave? Let’s all take a little responsibility for what happened. Not the physical but for the lack of compasion toward Kelly before it all happened.

  102. #104 by Answer to #14 on September 22, 2011

    If you had a problem with ther size of the Fullerton policemen why did you not voice your opinion before. And who are you to critizise someone’s size. You as a father should be a role model for your kids..and start by not judging people by their size. Maybe you could start a fitness program for officers – Don’t just say what people should do – Do it yourself.

  103. #105 by Answer to #15 on September 22, 2011

    Judge his action not the way he looks – take a look at yourself are you that great?

  104. #106 by Sean on September 22, 2011

    You know not of which you speak. And you speak quite poorly. This blog has auto correct, try using it if you are going to try and sound intelligent.

  105. #107 by leo on September 22, 2011

    Next move is the end of this website. The D A won’t allow further discussion of this scandal. The D A has to end this for his bosses. $$$$$

  106. #108 by Sean on September 22, 2011

    Wrong. Their weight is a reflection of their fitness level or lack there of. Their apparent fitness level is a reflection of laziness. Laziness is a major contributing factor for all sorts of ineptitude’s. You are correct that the world does not belong to the perfect, but someone who is employed to do a job that can be physically demanding to say the least should be held to a standard of fitness. So, while the delivery may not be very polite from some, their weight is a very relevant subject matter as it pertains to the Police’s standards for current and potential officers. It is not an insult to call a fat slob, a fat slob.

  107. #109 by Answer to #12 on September 22, 2011

    Why went you all one when Kelly was on the street asking for help – Does it make you feel good now to be counted as all one?

  108. #110 by Response to #46 on September 22, 2011

    You judge the officer now and how they look – if you really cared about the police departments standards why did you not start a petition to fire the fat and ugly officers before all this happened. Officer Manuel is a nice looking man and these pictures do not do him justice. Just because of the circumstance you have to be nasty and not stick to the issue .. shame on you….

  109. #111 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    Now your protesting…… Where were you before… Stop trying to do something to make yourself feel good now…. where were you when Kelly Thomas needed food and a warm bed to sleep at night?

  110. #112 by Sean on September 22, 2011

    Boiler plate bandwagon response from all the losers supporting the losers. Good Job.

  111. #113 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 22, 2011

    Yes, they are drawing up the orders at the Death Star in Santa Ana as I type. I saw the first draft myself. Tony is going to be imprisoned, and then sent to a gulag where he will be humanely treated for his mental problems. The server hosting this site will be taken down remotely with a high-energy magnetic electro-kinetic radio light beam pulse sent from a secret satellite owned by Dick Ackerman.

    It’s been fun, but all good things must come to an end, and this Web site is simply too dangerous and subversive for the powers that be

  112. #114 by Anonymous on September 22, 2011

    a high-energy magnetic electro-kinetic radio light beam pulse sent from a secret satellite,,,,,
    Eye, what is your I.Q.?

  113. #115 by T N Z on September 22, 2011

    Tony is going to be imprisoned, and then sent to a gulag where he will be humanely treated for his mental problems.

    Susan Kang, I hope you realize that you could get fired for talking about your boss like that.

  114. #116 by Jt on September 22, 2011

    Let me just make sure I understand you correctly:

    Police are wantonly beating people to death in the streets of our city and you think we should dedicate ourselves to starting a fitness program for them?

  115. #117 by merijoe#1 on September 22, 2011

    Thats because this is a profession where size and fitness matters- and who are you to NOT criticize this-seems to me anyone who is in agreeance to obese coppers is a poor example to anyone especially their own kids.

    Hello, may..be, oh I dont know, being fit and healthy should be part of their training so they can run after a bad guy without having to double over and BTW, its proven, exercise helps the flow of endorphins in your body-so you are much likely to be in a better mood.

  116. #118 by merijoe#1 on September 22, 2011

    By cracky

  117. #119 by anon on September 22, 2011

    Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable – a most sacred right – a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.
    Abraham Lincoln

  118. #120 by Cindy Mc on September 22, 2011

    Yep. “GO HOME OR GO TO JAIL”

  119. #121 by merijoe#1 on September 22, 2011

    Where is the call about cars being broken into?

    where was the mention of the stolen trash that Kelly had in his backpack?

    Why didnt DA mention broken bones those poor cops suffered?

    and to Prunella the rose parade grand marshall who comments -”things happen in life” “oh well-thats the way the ball bounces” “it just got a little out of hand-is all”
    and “the police chief and council shouldnt have to resign, they didnt do it”

    Wonder what she would say if it was one of her great grand children…no the mayor and council werent there but neither are people who hire assasins to kill folk-but they’re just as responsible-they told em to be tough and hired unfit circus acts to uphold law and order- kronyism

  120. #122 by Cindy Mc on September 22, 2011

    and…you know I (I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,) AM ALWAYS RIGHT. WHY WON’T YOU PEOPLE LISTEN TO ME?????

  121. #123 by Cindy Mc on September 22, 2011

    “And yet I think I (I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,)(SIC) may have found an example where public pressure probably did move things along. Check this out:

    “Autopsy Results in Fullerton Police Beating Face Potential Delays”

    “…the cause of Thomas’ death would not be made public right away if law enforcement officials ask for a delay to complete their investigation, said Orange County sheriff’s spokesman Jim Amormino….”It’s going to be a while,” Amormino said, “a couple of months to several months. It could be quite a while.”

    I THOUGHT THE DELAY WAS EXACTLY 10 WEEKS BECAUSE OF TOX AND AUTOPSY REPORTS. lIKE THAT “OTHER ” CASE THAT WAS EXACTLY TEN WEEKS. “THERE’S NO CONSPIRACY THERE” IT’S JUST MAYBE SOME”LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS” WHO MAY HAVE ASKED THEM TO DELAY THEIR REPORT. WHICH IS IT???
    SWAMI, PLEASE TELL US. I (I,I,I,I,I,I,I) can’t wait for your response. Let’s see if people will listen to you.

  122. #124 by dimbulb on September 22, 2011

    Some of these folks are not the brightest bulbs in the pack, are they? This is why it sometimes seems futile. You have a bunch of dim bulbs there in OC.

  123. #125 by blessusall on September 22, 2011

    Agree,

  124. #126 by Cindy Mc on September 22, 2011

    But “EYE” says we should be satisfied with the excellent job the DA did. Why aren’t you satisfied. Why won’t you listen to him?????/sarcasm WTF

  125. #127 by Cindy Mc on September 22, 2011

    But “EYE” said Mr. Thomas was the top authority on what should be justice and he was satisfied with the DA’s announcement. Why weren’t all the FFF people???? Why did we keep going on about more charges????? Why don’t we listen to him?????
    I don’t talk shit about shit I don’t know shit about.

  126. #128 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 22, 2011

    Cindy Mc :You’re a dumbass. The tox report could have been DONE the NEXT DAY asshole.

    Of the time line for forensic toxicology testing, “Four to six weeks is pretty standard,” says Barbarajean Magnani, PhD, MD, chairwoman of the Toxicology Resource committee for the College of American Pathologists.

    I may not always be right but you sure have a knack for being consistently and embarassingly wrong. :) And you swear just like a Rolla Bowla from Ohio. :)

  127. #129 by Cindy Mc on September 22, 2011

    “It’s been fun, but all good things must come to an end”

    This does mean you are leaving, right?

  128. #130 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 22, 2011

    Cindy Mc screamed: I THOUGHT THE DELAY WAS EXACTLY 10 WEEKS BECAUSE OF TOX AND AUTOPSY REPORTS.

    It was.

    Why am I not surprised that a Rolla Bowla from Ohio would miss the point entirely.

    Try reading my post again and get back to me.

    Cindy Mc :You’re a dumbass. The tox report could have been DONE the NEXT DAY asshole.

    Of the time line for forensic toxicology testing, “Four to six weeks is pretty standard,” says Barbarajean Magnani, PhD, MD, chairwoman of the Toxicology Resource committee for the College of American Pathologists.

  129. #131 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 22, 2011

    Cindy Mc :You’re a dumbass. The tox report could have been DONE the NEXT DAY asshole.

    Of the time line for forensic toxicology testing, “Four to six weeks is pretty standard,” says Barbarajean Magnani, PhD, MD, chairwoman of the Toxicology Resource committee for the College of American Pathologists.

    You sure have a knack for being consistently and embarrassingly wrong. And you swear just like a Rolla Bowla from Ohio. :)

  130. #132 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 22, 2011

    Cindy Mc :You’re a dumbass. The tox report could have been DONE the NEXT DAY asshole.

    Of the time line for forensic toxicology testing, “Four to six weeks is pretty standard,” says Barbarajean Magnani, PhD, MD, chairwoman of the Toxicology Resource committee for the College of American Pathologists.

  131. #133 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 22, 2011

    Cindy Mc :You’re a dumbass. The tox report could have been DONE the NEXT DAY asshole.

    Of the time line for forensic toxicology testing, “Four to six weeks is pretty standard,” says Barbarajean Magnani, PhD, MD, chairwoman of the Toxicology Resource committee for the College of American Pathologists.

    You swear just like a Rolla Bowla from Ohio. :)

  132. #134 by 9c1copcar on September 22, 2011

    MEYOU,

    I agree with you. Charges were not in line with the damages done. P.C. 206 is a very stout charge that would send shivers to those heavy officers throughout this country. Either abide by the oath you took, give up your badge and gun, or go to prison. Simple as that.

  133. #135 by merijoe#1 on September 22, 2011

    wonder how he is liking the death threats

  134. #136 by We Are All One on September 22, 2011

    NAMI Volunteer :
    Fullerton needs to wake up and get those people out of office. This was not Involuntary Manslaughter it was First Degree Murder. Officials owe Kelly Thomas that much – even though there may be no way to prove premeditation, they owe him enough to seek it. And by God there are some clever DA’s out there who probably could prove it. When you act as a group against 1 defenseless human being and are trained to know that 1 punch can kill, it’s premeditated murder. There is no justice in this world if we don’t fight for it. Please continue to protest and picket. Do everything you can to send a message that this is unacceptable and will not go severely unpunished.

    More and more are waking up to what’s going on. We will not let this slide.

  135. #137 by We Are All One on September 22, 2011

    NAMI Volunteer :
    “The victims of the violence are black and white, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown. They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. No one – no matter where he lives or what he does – can be certain whom next will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on, in this country of ours.
    Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr’s cause has ever been stilled by an assassin’s bullet. No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil disorders. A sniper is only a coward, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, or uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of the people.
    Whenever any American’s life is taken by another American unnecessarily – whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of law – by one man or by a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence – whenever we tear at the fabric of our lives which another man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and his children, whenever we do this then the whole nation is degraded.” – RFK 4/5/68

    Nice.

  136. #138 by Sapporo on September 22, 2011

    This isn’t just about Kelly or the homeless, its much bigger.
    This is about the cover up by FPD, and the “code of silence” by fellow officers. This is about the false police reports. The citizens deserve better, we deserve the truth. If PD would have just had the courage to not lie and cover up then Fullerton would not be in the position it is in today!
    And the DA is a coward as well. Only charge two of the six officers, really?? What a sell out. Officer Wolfe was there the entire time and did nothing.

  137. #139 by Sapporo on September 22, 2011

    you see these fists, these are the fists that are about to fuck you up.
    ya, there was no intent there. just ramos taunting Kelly before he got beat to death. How can these pigs get away with this shit?

  138. #140 by Sapporo on September 22, 2011

    I was investigating an incident last month in a different OC city. a cop on the scene was trying to manipulate the evidence to try and put the blame on an innocent bystander. When detectives showed up on the scene, they shed more light on the situation and showed that their co-worker was 100% wrong. And the innocent bystander had absolutely nothing to do with it. I was so pissed off. No apology, just sent him back to the dept to do paperwork.
    Corruption isn’t just in Fullerton.

  139. #141 by Sisto Maximo on September 23, 2011

    Citizens policing the police! That’s great! The Police Association is going to hit the roof! I love it!

  140. #142 by TIGERMANLSU on September 23, 2011

    BELIVE ME IT CAN BE DONE ;” WE DO IT HERE WHERE I LIVE;. peole take turn,s walking thier dog,with phone viedo ready.Each block has a all night look out.! people give each other thier phone number. god bless the good people of fullerton.

  141. #143 by KFI on September 23, 2011

    We Are All One :

    NAMI Volunteer :
    Fullerton needs to wake up and get those people out of office. This was not Involuntary Manslaughter it was First Degree Murder. Officials owe Kelly Thomas that much – even though there may be no way to prove premeditation, they owe him enough to seek it. And by God there are some clever DA’s out there who probably could prove it. When you act as a group against 1 defenseless human being and are trained to know that 1 punch can kill, it’s premeditated murder. There is no justice in this world if we don’t fight for it. Please continue to protest and picket. Do everything you can to send a message that this is unacceptable and will not go severely unpunished.

    More and more are waking up to what’s going on. We will not let this slide.

    ONCE THE POLICE BRASS ORDERS THE PROTESTS AND RECALL ACTIVITY TO END. THE STREETS WILL BE LIKE BAGHDAD. PEOPLE WILL BE RISKING THEIR LIFES BY OPENING THEIR MOUTHS IN PUBLIC IN FULLERTON. PACK UP YOUR FAMILY’S AND MOVE OUT. THE MOVEMENT IS OVER.

  142. #144 by TIGERMANLSU on September 23, 2011

    YOUR RIGHT when he said a person has a right to fight back, even the police.!!!

  143. #145 by Mike @ Here on September 23, 2011

    The down side of that is if you decide to fight back to save your own ass they will beat your ass,call for back up and claim resisting arrest,unless there is video you did nothing wrong you are screwed.

  144. #146 by TIGERMANLSU on September 23, 2011

    IT,S BECAUES I HEAR HE CAN CRY LIKE A LITTLE GRILEE MAN OUT OF THAT ONE EYE.,”

  145. #147 by TIGERMANLSU on September 23, 2011

    IT,S TO LOW TO MEASUER BAY.

  146. #148 by Cindy Mc on September 23, 2011

    Rowla bowla (sic) (hehehehehehhehehehehe) from Ohio here. Just for the record…never bowled in my life. I was sure you would want to know that so you are correct.
    Oops you forgot to post my respose. I’m certain it was simply an oversight:
    EYENEVERSAYNO-Ok here’s some foul mouth for you. You are so fucking stupid, you don’t even know how stupid you are. I don’t even know where to begin. Ok, so you found an article on a website. I agree. Reputable web site. I advise my patients to use this site on a regular basis and also encourage them to ask questions about what they’ve read. Let’s start out with the most important point. I almost fell for your bullshit comment last nite. The only excuse I have is I was tired last night. So Kelly was in the hospital for…….5 DAYS. Almost all of what he might have had in his system before the beating would not be detectable after that length of time. The hospital PROBABLY did a drug tox screen and would have had those results in HOURS (like your article said sometimes in “hours). So those are already done. Any post-mortem drug tox would only show what was compassionately administered for excruciating pain or to keep him paralyed or unconscious while he was intubated. ( that means while he had a breathing tube in) Next YOUR article goes on to give all kinds of EXCUSES like what I mentioned…backlog. Still the point…you can get them done VERY VERY quickly. The only limitation would be test processing time. So what kinds of tests might take that long? Arsenic, heavy metal poisons, ethylene glycol, etc. ( reference-”days”) If any tests were positive it is common procedure to confirm those tests or run a more specific test based on those results. (reference weeks-months) (and no I don’t think he ingested any of those things before he was murdered-so moot point). The article is correct for the general population. You have to be smart enough to understand/interpret it. Obviously. I could go on and on AND I didn’t look up one single website. I don’t talk shit about shit I don’t know about.
    I think that tidies think up a bit.
    I also have explained why the swearing here. (Btw did you notice it was only directed towards you?? -Oh I’m sure you did!) I use it for emphasis to TRY to get thru thick headed pussy-wussy from cali lile you. It is impossible to deal with a narcissist like you. Absolutely no point in it. Done with you. Please enjoy being right ALWAYS for the rest of your miserable life. Thanks. Bye.

  147. #149 by Cindy Mc on September 23, 2011

    Rowla bowla (sic) (hehehehehehhehehehehe) from Ohio here. Just for the record…never bowled in my life. I was sure you would want to know that so you are correct.
    Oops you forgot to post my respose. I’m certain it was simply an oversight:
    EYENEVERSAYNO-Ok here’s some foul mouth for you. You are so fucking stupid, you don’t even know how stupid you are. I don’t even know where to begin. Ok, so you found an article on a website. I agree. Reputable web site. I advise my patients to use this site on a regular basis and also encourage them to ask questions about what they’ve read. Let’s start out with the most important point. I almost fell for your bullshit comment last nite. The only excuse I have is I was tired last night. So Kelly was in the hospital for…….5 DAYS. Almost all of what he might have had in his system before the beating would not be detectable after that length of time. The hospital PROBABLY did a drug tox screen and would have had those results in HOURS (like your article said sometimes in “hours). So those are already done. Any post-mortem drug tox would only show what was compassionately administered for excruciating pain or to keep him paralyed or unconscious while he was intubated. ( that means while he had a breathing tube in) Next YOUR article goes on to give all kinds of EXCUSES like what I mentioned…backlog. Still the point…you can get them done VERY VERY quickly. The only limitation would be test processing time. So what kinds of tests might take that long? Arsenic, heavy metal poisons, ethylene glycol, etc. ( reference-”days”) If any tests were positive it is common procedure to confirm those tests or run a more specific test based on those results. (reference weeks-months) (and no I don’t think he ingested any of those things before he was murdered-so moot point). The article is correct for the general population. You have to be smart enough to understand/interpret it. Obviously. I could go on and on AND I didn’t look up one single website. I don’t talk shit about shit I don’t know about.
    I think that tidies think up a bit.
    I also have explained why the swearing here. (Btw did you notice it was only directed towards you?? -Oh I’m sure you did!) I use it for emphasis to TRY to get thru thick headed pussy-wussy from cali lile you. It is impossible to deal with a narcissist like you. Absolutely no point in it. Done with you. Please enjoy being right ALWAYS for the rest of your miserable life. Thanks. Bye.

  148. #150 by Cindy Mc on September 23, 2011

    Look mommy, I can keep posting the same thing and never acknowledge my narsissistic behavior:):):)Rowla bowla (sic) (hehehehehehhehehehehe) from Ohio here. Just for the record…never bowled in my life. I was sure you would want to know that so you are correct.
    Oops you forgot to post my respose. I’m certain it was simply an oversight:
    EYENEVERSAYNO-Ok here’s some foul mouth for you. You are so fucking stupid, you don’t even know how stupid you are. I don’t even know where to begin. Ok, so you found an article on a website. I agree. Reputable web site. I advise my patients to use this site on a regular basis and also encourage them to ask questions about what they’ve read. Let’s start out with the most important point. I almost fell for your bullshit comment last nite. The only excuse I have is I was tired last night. So Kelly was in the hospital for…….5 DAYS. Almost all of what he might have had in his system before the beating would not be detectable after that length of time. The hospital PROBABLY did a drug tox screen and would have had those results in HOURS (like your article said sometimes in “hours). So those are already done. Any post-mortem drug tox would only show what was compassionately administered for excruciating pain or to keep him paralyed or unconscious while he was intubated. ( that means while he had a breathing tube in) Next YOUR article goes on to give all kinds of EXCUSES like what I mentioned…backlog. Still the point…you can get them done VERY VERY quickly. The only limitation would be test processing time. So what kinds of tests might take that long? Arsenic, heavy metal poisons, ethylene glycol, etc. ( reference-”days”) If any tests were positive it is common procedure to confirm those tests or run a more specific test based on those results. (reference weeks-months) (and no I don’t think he ingested any of those things before he was murdered-so moot point). The article is correct for the general population. You have to be smart enough to understand/interpret it. Obviously. I could go on and on AND I didn’t look up one single website. I don’t talk shit about shit I don’t know about.
    I think that tidies think up a bit.
    I also have explained why the swearing here. (Btw did you notice it was only directed towards you?? -Oh I’m sure you did!) I use it for emphasis to TRY to get thru thick headed pussy-wussy from cali lile you. It is impossible to deal with a narcissist like you. Absolutely no point in it. Done with you. Please enjoy being right ALWAYS for the rest of your miserable life. Thanks. Bye.

  149. #151 by Cindy Mc on September 23, 2011

    Look mommy! I did it again!!! You do love me don’t you? I am the smartest person in the blog/room/city/world/universe aren’Rowla bowla (sic) (hehehehehehhehehehehe) from Ohio here. Just for the record…never bowled in my life. I was sure you would want to know that so you are correct.
    Oops you forgot to post my respose. I’m certain it was simply an oversight:
    EYENEVERSAYNO-Ok here’s some foul mouth for you. You are so fucking stupid, you don’t even know how stupid you are. I don’t even know where to begin. Ok, so you found an article on a website. I agree. Reputable web site. I advise my patients to use this site on a regular basis and also encourage them to ask questions about what they’ve read. Let’s start out with the most important point. I almost fell for your bullshit comment last nite. The only excuse I have is I was tired last night. So Kelly was in the hospital for…….5 DAYS. Almost all of what he might have had in his system before the beating would not be detectable after that length of time. The hospital PROBABLY did a drug tox screen and would have had those results in HOURS (like your article said sometimes in “hours). So those are already done. Any post-mortem drug tox would only show what was compassionately administered for excruciating pain or to keep him paralyed or unconscious while he was intubated. ( that means while he had a breathing tube in) Next YOUR article goes on to give all kinds of EXCUSES like what I mentioned…backlog. Still the point…you can get them done VERY VERY quickly. The only limitation would be test processing time. So what kinds of tests might take that long? Arsenic, heavy metal poisons, ethylene glycol, etc. ( reference-”days”) If any tests were positive it is common procedure to confirm those tests or run a more specific test based on those results. (reference weeks-months) (and no I don’t think he ingested any of those things before he was murdered-so moot point). The article is correct for the general population. You have to be smart enough to understand/interpret it. Obviously. I could go on and on AND I didn’t look up one single website. I don’t talk shit about shit I don’t know about.
    I think that tidies think up a bit.
    I also have explained why the swearing here. (Btw did you notice it was only directed towards you?? -Oh I’m sure you did!) I use it for emphasis to TRY to get thru thick headed pussy-wussy from cali lile you. It is impossible to deal with a narcissist like you. Absolutely no point in it. Done with you. Please enjoy being right ALWAYS for the rest of your miserable life. Thanks. Bye.
    t I?

  150. #152 by Cindy Mc on September 23, 2011

    Don’t ever address the repeated smack downs. Just keep posting the same comment that you just happened to omit my CORRECT response.( btw the caps were for emhasis. Not yelling. But if YOU tell me that I was screaming, I’ll believe YOU! Rowla bowla (sic) (hehehehehehhehehehehe) from Ohio here. Just for the record…never bowled in my life. I was sure you would want to know that so you are correct.
    Oops you forgot to post my respose. I’m certain it was simply an oversight:
    EYENEVERSAYNO-Ok here’s some foul mouth for you. You are so fucking stupid, you don’t even know how stupid you are. I don’t even know where to begin. Ok, so you found an article on a website. I agree. Reputable web site. I advise my patients to use this site on a regular basis and also encourage them to ask questions about what they’ve read. Let’s start out with the most important point. I almost fell for your bullshit comment last nite. The only excuse I have is I was tired last night. So Kelly was in the hospital for…….5 DAYS. Almost all of what he might have had in his system before the beating would not be detectable after that length of time. The hospital PROBABLY did a drug tox screen and would have had those results in HOURS (like your article said sometimes in “hours). So those are already done. Any post-mortem drug tox would only show what was compassionately administered for excruciating pain or to keep him paralyed or unconscious while he was intubated. ( that means while he had a breathing tube in) Next YOUR article goes on to give all kinds of EXCUSES like what I mentioned…backlog. Still the point…you can get them done VERY VERY quickly. The only limitation would be test processing time. So what kinds of tests might take that long? Arsenic, heavy metal poisons, ethylene glycol, etc. ( reference-”days”) If any tests were positive it is common procedure to confirm those tests or run a more specific test based on those results. (reference weeks-months) (and no I don’t think he ingested any of those things before he was murdered-so moot point). The article is correct for the general population. You have to be smart enough to understand/interpret it. Obviously. I could go on and on AND I didn’t look up one single website. I don’t talk shit about shit I don’t know about.
    I think that tidies think up a bit.
    I also have explained why the swearing here. (Btw did you notice it was only directed towards you?? -Oh I’m sure you did!) I use it for emphasis to TRY to get thru thick headed pussy-wussy from cali lile you. It is impossible to deal with a narcissist like you. Absolutely no point in it. Done with you. Please enjoy being right ALWAYS for the rest of your miserable life. Thanks. Bye.

  151. #153 by Friendly Neighbor on September 23, 2011

    Did you mean nice looking murderer? And the pictures (video) will do justice.

  152. #154 by 9c1copcar on September 23, 2011

    KFI
    ONCE THE POLICE BRASS ORDERS THE PROTESTS AND RECALL ACTIVITY TO END. THE STREETS WILL BE LIKE BAGHDAD. PEOPLE WILL BE RISKING THEIR LIFES BY OPENING THEIR MOUTHS IN PUBLIC IN FULLERTON. PACK UP YOUR FAMILY’S AND MOVE OUT. THE MOVEMENT IS OVER.

    That is exactly what the powers that be want everyone to do; shut up, do what we tell you, live your life as we dictate, and suck it up. I, for one, will never do that.
    If only one does that, it will be easy for the system to deal with. If 100,000 raise their voices, then we are the ones in control; same as what happens at the voting booth.

  153. #155 by One for the books on September 23, 2011

    Actually, it was a barbaric, human rights atrocity carried out by authoritarians of the State!

  154. #156 by One for the books on September 23, 2011

    This video has a powerful conclusion!

  155. #157 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    A Rowla Bowlla wrote: “Kelly was in the hospital for 5 DAYS. Almost all of what he might have had in his system before the beating would not be detectable…. The hospital PROBABLY did a drug tox screen and would have had those results in HOURS…”

    In forensic testing blood is just one of the samples tested… drugs and related indicators accumulate in stored fat and in hair (among other places). Both reveal drugs that have been used in a time frame measured in months, not days. Hair can be thought of like a drug timeline going back many months.

    And yes, a quick and dirty *clinical* tox test, accurate for amounts of drugs relevant to treatment was done on blood in the ER and ready right away. On the other hand, a forensic tox test is only done when the test that tales the longest is complete, and that can take weeks, even months. The tox testing was so detailed in a recent celebrity death that the final autopsy report took 9 months!

    Funny thing is, all your wildly inaccurate rantings on this subject are in support of a now totally blown conspiracy theory . Ten weeks after Kelly’s death the autopsy is in and the murderer has been charged and is in jail. Even better, there is super-strong evidence most didn’t even know we had: Ramos’ audio. Some cover-up!

    Rowla Bowla also wrote: “did you notice (my foul disgusting mouth) was only directed towards you??”

    No not really, I found a few posts of yours with the same tired, juvenile pissing match kinda swearing before me… got tired of reading it real fast.

    You say you have patients, what do you do?

    .
    .
    .
    .
    ..

    (this should be good)

  156. #158 by We Are All One on September 23, 2011

    “Once a government is committed to silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all it’s citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear.” – Harry S. Truman

  157. #159 by AbstractEcho on September 23, 2011

    The family was powerless. Kelly was obviously over 18 so they had no right to contain him any more than your family has a right to contain YOU. He was an adult and more importantly was not considered to be a threat to himself or others. It’s important for you to know that he DID live with family members from time to time and he ALWAYS had a place to stay. He just chose not to live on the streets. Whatever happend between Kelly’s family and him are completely irrelevant to what took place that night. Be sure you have the facts before you go spouting off.

    And what Ron Thomas does with the money – if he accepts any – is really none of our business. I’m sure he’d much rather have his son back.

  158. #160 by AbstractEcho on September 23, 2011

    Obviously we weren’t aware of Kelly at the time this took place but thankfully there were some citizens who were and some who even had the presence of mind to take video. Are you trying to tell us that we cannot voice our opposition to FPD killing an innocent man because we weren’t there?

    I don’t even know why I’m dignifying this with a response. Do you feel threatened because you are one of the Fullerton 6 or a rogue cop?

    “Of the people, for the people and by the people.” Remember it! You ARE going to start answering to us now. Just watch.

  159. #161 by AbstractEcho on September 23, 2011

    Bowling pins? Ramos? More like a bowling ball – round and heavy. When he stops waddling after a suspect it takes 5 minutes for the rest of his body to stop jiggling.

    I agree TFW, it should have been no problem for one of them to subdue Kelly and cuff him in under a minute without beating him. I guess they consider beating a helpless citizen their fitness program. I know if I were a criminal I wouldn’t be detered from commiting a crime because I know they wouldn’t be able to catch me. lol

  160. #162 by AbstractEcho on September 23, 2011

    News flash, genius. It is up to the employer to put and keep a fitness program in place or make sure they stay fit if fitness if is required for the job. Cops do have to chase suspects. They have to subdue suspects. Therefore they have to be in some sort of shape. Round is A shape, not IN shape.

  161. #163 by blessusall on September 23, 2011

    Well stated.

  162. #164 by Jack on September 24, 2011

    The cops who inflicted great bodily injury on Kelly Thomas should have been charged with Penal Code Section 206, “Torture.”

    Penal Code Section 206 reads:
    Every person who, with the intent to cause cruel or extreme pain and suffering for the purpose of revenge, extortion, persuasion, or for any sadistic purpose, inflicts great bodily injury as defined in Section 12022.7 upon the person of another, is guilty of torture.
    The crime of torture does not require any proof that the victim suffered pain.

    California Penal Code section 206.1 states:
    Torture is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for a term of life.

    The complete California Penal Code is available to download for free online from numerous sources. Just search for it.

  163. #165 by tony on September 24, 2011

    Jack :
    The cops who inflicted great bodily injury on Kelly Thomas should have been charged with Penal Code Section 206, “Torture.”
    Penal Code Section 206 reads:
    Every person who, with the intent to cause cruel or extreme pain and suffering for the purpose of revenge, extortion, persuasion, or for any sadistic purpose, inflicts great bodily injury as defined in Section 12022.7 upon the person of another, is guilty of torture.
    The crime of torture does not require any proof that the victim suffered pain.
    California Penal Code section 206.1 states:
    Torture is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for a term of life.
    The complete California Penal Code is available to download for free online from numerous sources. Just search for it.

    Jack these guys will walk and that’s the way it’s going to stay. The D A has his masters to answer to. Sadly it will go awy.

  164. #166 by We Are All One on September 25, 2011

Comments are closed.