OCTA Uncut


A month ago we posted the OCTA surveillance video that captured the immediate reaction of witnesses after the Kelly Thomas beating.

Here is the full video from OCTA Bus 5599′s DVR on July 5. Perhaps our more observant readers can glean new information from the 18 minute recording. As always, leave your observations in the comments section below.

Update: As suggested by EyeNeverSayNo, I ran the audio through a noise reducer to help clarify some of the conversation. That version of the video his here.

The video shows all seven cameras at once and is best viewed full screen at 720p.

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  1. #1 by We Are All One on September 9, 2011

    Thank you for posting this.

  2. #2 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

    Damn, big brother is watching!

    • #3 by tigermanlsu on September 9, 2011

      thank god for big brother this time,thay got the murder on film.

  3. #4 by CocoWalter on September 9, 2011

    The lady witness on the bus says,” One guy recorded it”… Who and where is the one guy???

    • #5 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

      I have heard that there was a realtor who filmed the incident, but his camera was confiscated.

    • #6 by Carol on September 9, 2011

      the original video….

  4. #7 by CocoWalter on September 9, 2011

    Around 9 minutes, the witnesses on bus, claim that many people recorded it, where are they???

    • #8 by CocoWalter on September 9, 2011

      And that another bus might have recorded the beating and the ambulance company might have been a “CARE” ambulance…

      • #9 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

        I also heard (though somewhat garbled) something about the “ambulance” and “10 minutes” in the same sentence. That must’ve been the “asystolic event” that Ron’s attorney mentioned in the press conference and that time was spent resuscitating Kelly.

        Makes me wonder if Doc Hee Haw considers PEA worse than asystole…because as we all know by now, no matter how bad the symptom/condition/injury, he has always seen worse.

        • #10 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

          Sorry…PEA = Pulseless Electrical Activity

  5. #11 by id on September 9, 2011

    why don’t some of my comments get posted?

  6. #12 by Johnny Donut on September 9, 2011

    You can see the ambulance fly by at 1:40 (9:13 PM according to the timer.)

    • #13 by streets of fullerton on September 9, 2011

      this is a good piece of information that shows a timeline. A witness recalls leaving the lower track platform at approx. 8:45 as the first police car responding with lights. the altrication was already going on at this point.The ambulance within 5 minutes of the ending of the altrication. This shows that the altrication ended about 9:10pm. This shows that they were beating and tazing him for about 15 minutes or more non stop. This is what other witnesses will colaborate.

  7. #14 by fullerton lover on September 9, 2011

    @ approximately 6:00 minutes one of the passengers indicates that the driver of the #26 OCTA bus was parked, and in a good position to watch the whole beating and subsequent murder of Kelly Thomas. I was wondering if this driver has been interviewed by either Ron Thomas’s attorney or the DA’s office yet?

    • #15 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

      Or the FBI.

    • #16 by CocoWalter on September 9, 2011

      The more that is revealed, I sense that Ron Thomas and Garo have ALL the pieces they possibly can, to bring the FPD to their knees….This is what I am praying and hoping for!!

      • #17 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

        Yeah, for their civil suit perhaps, but I think most of us here believe justice for Kelly will only be achieved through criminal charges and convictions of the officers involved.

        The coroner’s report will be one of the two key pieces of evidence in the criminal trial, the other will be the unreleased video.

        • #18 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

          Let’s not forget the medical records from the hospital.

    • #19 by TheFullertonWatcher on September 9, 2011

      There is video out of the front of the that bus. I wonder if it still exisits.

  8. #20 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

    I think I’ll create an audio file and run it through Audacity to take the engine noise out. I’ve heard this stuff before, but man it just gets more chilling with time, not less, especially with the context the medical records now provide.

    • #21 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

      Please do, would love to hear clearer version of what they are saying at 16:15+ about CARE&fire department.

      “Fire department….garble garble bus noises…..and he was like, they killed him, they killed a homeless man.” – male witness
      Fire dept was on the scene I take it? And the firemen made a statement that they (FPD) killed a homeless man??

      • #22 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

        Working on it right now.

    • #23 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

      Can you hear what is said at around 9:29, sounded to me like:
      “see you next Tuesday, I have to go to the Tuesday night pre exam”
      then: “she got off at the hospital”

      I will say listening to this bus driver, his demeanor, his questions, his questions about who was at the scene, impressive.

  9. #24 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

    If I were Ron Thomas, I would walk up to the microphone at the next city council meeting and INFORM the members of the cause of death as documented by doctors at UCI Medical Center. I don’t think the doctors are lying and the cause of death cannot be refuted!

    The mayor and Pat McKinley said they did not know what the cause of death was. Well, now it should be explained to them in open session so that they understand!!

    • #25 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      Good suggestion. I’m sure they already know, but I’d like to see their reaction.

      BTW, the UCI doctor’s opinion certainly can be refuted, and it will be by the defense.

      My guess is that it will be Kelly’s heart that the defense will hang its hat on… they will say his death can just as easily be attributed to heart stoppage as anything else, and that his heart health was compromised by years of drug and alcohol abuse, and from living on the street with poor nutrition, as well as chronic dehydration.

      This is why the coroner’s official cause of death is so critical to the cause of justice.

      • #26 by Concerned Texan on September 9, 2011

        I was having an involved conversation about this very subject last night. I don’t think it matters that much at this point what the Coroner’s report says. I believe that’s why it will be published soon.

        A Coroner gets a body after it is dead, so they have to do more guess work than a medical doctor who treated a patient while he or she was alive. I believe that legally, the treating doctor’s reports will trump anything put out by the Coroner’s office. If the Coroner’s report states something drastically different than the medical doctor’s report who treated Kelly, it will more than likely become circumstancial evidence to illustrate police and city corruption.

        • #27 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

          I totally agree!

        • #28 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

          I agree too

        • #29 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

          “I don’t think it matters that much at this point what the Coroner’s report says.”

          Nope. Not in a criminal trial.

          Remember, juries everywhere, but in particular conservative OC juries, are loathe to put cops in jail for excessive force. It’s not hard for a decent defense to play on this inclination, after all, cops are authorized by us, the citizenry, to use deadly force when they deem necessary.

          Now you want 12 citizens who weren’t there to second guess the cops’ decision and send them to jail? You better have all your ducks in a row because the jury is not going to be made up of people posting every day to a site advocating justice for Kelly and pushing conspiracy theories.

          An ambiguous coroner’s report will give a criminal case jury, who might very well be looking for any excuse to let the cops off, all the ‘reasonable doubt’ they will need to go home and sleep well at night.

          • #30 by Frank on September 9, 2011

            I wouldn’t count on any “justice” from the “justice” system. The system’s main purpose is protecting politically connected criminals and that includes the uniformed thugs who murdered Kelly. But exposing the “justice” system for what it is — especially to the naive who like to think “it’s just some bad apples” — will do more to improve society that locking up a few sociopathic thugs (since they’ll be replaced by more sociopathic thugs).

            Peace — http://c4ss.org/content/3111

          • #31 by dixiejon on September 10, 2011

            the video will take away any second guessing. as said here if it was a cop being beat the video would be out to “prove” the hero was killed by real meanies. the feds will get them eventually. in NOLA they got the killers and everyone that was in the coverup at Danziger. the problem there was they hardly started investigating for 2 yrs. thinking the state was on it. this tragedy has had tons more exposure as that story was buried by Katrina and their trial (six years later) by C. Anthonys trial. it hurts my head too wait but that is how i see this ending. if the state prosecutes them the fed can still bring charges on other stuff and it doesn’t have to run concurrent. no way they get off free. the pressure is on, no way somebody isn’t going to crack, though the threats and blackmail certainly have started by now if not some outright begging by the criminals for cover.

      • #32 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

        The defense will probably look at the cause of death documented by the hospital doc’s, however, it will be difficult to impeach the veracity of the doctor’s testimony on this item. A prosecutor will have a field day with this stuff!

        • #33 by Concerned Texan on September 9, 2011

          Honestly, I don’t think the Doctor will even have to testify. As long as that Dr. is professionally licensed his signature is all that is needed. I think that usually you have doctors testifying when there is ambiguity surrounding a death. Here, I don’t think there is that same level of ambiguity because of the point above. A doctor treated Kelly while he was still alive, which in my opinion, rarely happens in death / murder cases. I almost think it will be better for the case in the longrun if that Dr. does not NEED to testify? But think about how backwards some of this is… Usually the “defense” is questioning a Coroner’s report… now it brings it as evidence?…

          • #34 by Concerned Texan on September 9, 2011

            A Coroner can only testify to what he or she “thinks” happened to the victim. That doctor wrote a thorough medical report (WITH tox screen) the momen Kelly arrived at the hospital. There is no “hypothetical.” That doctor witnessed what happened and treated it medically at the time to the best of his or her ability. The defense can “look” at it, but not really refute it to my understanding. I think it’s one of the strongest elements of this case.

          • #35 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

            Don’t forget, Ron Thomas has all of the X-rays and MRI’s. Highly critical evidence!

          • #36 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

            It’s not backwards at all. The side for which the coroner’s report is most favorable will always push it, and the other side will try to cast doubt.

            The fact is, it’s the coroner’s *job* to study and determine the official cause of death. It is the doctor’s job to immediately treat the patient using the best available information available at the time, and if the patient dies to render an opinion of the cause, again using the info available. For example, a doctor has a simple tox screen that takes hours to get a result but which helps him determine a *course of treatment*, the coroner determines the *official cause of death* based on a much more complex tox screen that takes 6 to 8 weeks to complete.

            Again, an ambiguous coroner’s report, submitted after months of careful study, will provide a jury all the ‘reasonable doubt’ it needs to let the presumed ‘good guys’ walk.

          • #37 by Concerned Texan on September 9, 2011

            @ Eye: I respectfully disagree. The Coroner’s *job* is irrelevant in this situation because of a superceeding cause of death certificate issued by medical doctor who treated the patient before the coroner received the body. His (the Coroner’s) statement does not matter legally because there is already a certified cause of death.

        • #38 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

          Also respectfully, consider that you may be thinking with your heart. Along with the other evidence, the doctor’s quick, thumbnail evalutaion of the cause of death (and that’s what it is) will probably be enough for the lower evidence standard in a civil trial, but not enough to send the murderer’s to prison if the coroner’s report, issued after months of study and using the most complex tests, fails to deliver an opinion favorable to the prosecution.

          It’s the old ‘reasonable doubt’ thing that juries often misinterpret (with the help of defense attorneys) to mean ‘beyond all doubt.’ Especially, it seems more and more these days, in high profile cases.

          • #39 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

            Sorry for the typos, multi-tasking this morning…

          • #40 by Concerned Texan on September 9, 2011

            To try and fault my logic by claiming that I am thinking with my heart, is not a logical response to my arguments. I believe it is called a straw-man fallacy. Also, the “reasonable doubt” to which are referring applies more to circumstantial evidence than hard evidence.

            Also, as I understand it, this doctor treated Kelly for five days which constitutes more than a thumbnail evaluation such as an emergency room admission. Unless you’re a jury consultant for this theortical trial, then you have very little information upon which to base your assumptions about these particular jury members in the Kelly Thomas trial.

      • #41 by LeRoy Murray on September 9, 2011

        His heart was working fine, until he was beaten to death. Brain dead or heart attack, it was caused by six cops hitting and kicking, hitting with night sticks, tazing him 6 or more times some over the heart which the manufacturer warns against as it can cause heart attacks, beating him with the butt of a tazer, and drop kneeing him in the face and throat. Does it matter how he died when everybody knows why and who killed him?

        • #42 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

          Yes.

      • #43 by Ken on September 9, 2011

        “….his heart health was compromised by years of drug and alcohol abuse, and from living on the street with poor nutrition, as well as chronic dehydration…”
        Would KT had died on his own without that brutal beating by the 6 animals ?

        • #44 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

          Eventually, yes. Look, I want to see his murderers go to prison too, but this is what the defense will likely argue in an attempt to cast ‘reasonable doubt’ in answer to the question “did the officer’s actions directly and solely cause Kelly Thomas’ death? Or were there contributing factors beyond their control? Did the victim’s lifestyle make him far more likely to die from an otherwise survivable encounter with law enforcement?”

          • #45 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

            “contributing factors beyond their control”
            “an otherwise survivable encounter”

            Can you be specific concerning contributing
            “factors” and how they relate to Kelly’s death medically?

          • #46 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

            “Can you be specific…”

            No, I cannot, but the defense won’t have to be more specific either, all they have to do is plant the seed.

            This is why the coroner’s report is critical, if it’s unfavorable to the prosecution’s narrative, it will be the seed the defense will plant.

            As shocking as these eyewitness accounts we are listening to in this video are, other witnesses will likely be brought to the stand that contradict some of what they are saying, this is the unreliable nature of eyewitness testimony. Within these contradictions will be further seeds of doubt.

      • #47 by Carol on September 9, 2011

        heart stoppage induced by the repeated use of the taser to the heart area…every single taser manufacturer stipulates that a taser should NEVER be used in the chest area due to possible heart attack.

        • #48 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

          Thanks Carol and I’m pretty sure the manufacturer was speaking concerning EVERYONE not just those with “contributing factors”.

          • #49 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

            You are still missing the point. It doesn’t matter if the Taser makers warn users not to tase the chest if it can’t be proven it was a Taser that stopped his heart.

            All that matters for the defense is whether or not they can plant a seed of doubt into the mind of a jury predisposed to excusing the cops and cutting them slack for maybe just getting carried away. After all, it will be argued, they put their lives on the line every day, and blah bla blah.

            It could have been the Taser shocks that stopped his heart, it could have been the lack of oxygen, it could have been a lot of things, including other contributing factors such as overall poor health… Ron Thomas himself has said he always worried that Kelly didn’t take care of himself and might end up in the hospital seriously dehydrated and with organ failure… the defense will argue that it could have been anything other than the actions of the police that night. And if the jury agrees that the cause of death is uncertain, that the beating was survivable and that his heart stoppage is what could have killed him, and that this could possibly be something that was not the fault of the officers, then a cop-sympathetic jury could decide that in all of that there is “reasonable doubt.”
            Don’t get me wrong, I certainly hope this is not what happens, and I only point this out to remind that the coroner’s report is super critical, and that as dramatic as the attending physicians declaration of death by assault might be, the door is still open wide and can only be shut by an autopsy report favorable to the prosecution.

  10. #50 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

    There are people in the various cameras that I have not seen before, more witnesses?

    With so much going on in each video, I think it would be easier to view if each one was looked at individually and captioned to clarify any coinciding, spontaneous testimony.

  11. #51 by Green on September 9, 2011

    This can be a great avenue of skimming through tons evidence, the only problem is important posts will be buried among a bunch of spam and troll posts.

    Administrator what do you think about deleting all off topic posts in this particular thread so we can just stick to examining the video piece by piece?

    • #52 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

      Yeah, filter out all the juvenile posts along with other verbal pollution!!

    • #53 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      Deleting posts for content using subjective criteria is a bad idea.

      • #54 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

        At times, this forum looks like a bunch of damn high school kids calling each other names! If people want to do that, fine, but go somewhere else!!

        • #55 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

          Agree, but that the interwebz, nothing you can do about it without chilling discussion. Not all of us are here just to play amateur sleuth.

          • #56 by state bar on September 9, 2011

            A bunch of idiotic, wanna-be lawyers on here. Most of you need to stop watching law & order and go back for that second month of law school.

        • #57 by Concerned Californian on September 12, 2011

          Its the same as city hall.

  12. #58 by We Are All One on September 9, 2011

    This is great evidence. The bus driver did an excellent job of asking good questions and keeping them talking and making sure to mark it. I really hope the #26 bus video was able to be retrieved and doesn’t ‘go missing.’

    It is clear by the witnesses reactions that they knew they had just seen a murder. There is no question about it. Their descriptions and emotional state will be good evidence if they are allowed to be heard in court.

    • #59 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      “…if they are allowed to be heard in court.”

      I can’t think of a reason they wouldn’t be called and the video introduced in the civil suit, and IMO, and the eventual filing of a criminal case is a lock.

  13. #60 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

    I’m sure the DA and FBI have a copy of this video. Highly relevant to the investigation!

  14. #61 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

    “He wasn’t resisting” – witness
    “hard for me to breathe, I cant breathe” – Witness heard Kelly yelling this.

    • #62 by streets of fullerton on September 9, 2011

      I second that. He was not resisting.He had no oppoertunity to resist being pinned to the ground. No witness could see any visible sign of resistance. As long as the police say “stop resisting” for their wastband microphones and for the public nearby to hear, they must have felt justified to continue thier abuse.

  15. #63 by L.A. Times on September 9, 2011

    Fullerton police chief extends leave amid homeless beating controversy

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/09/fullerton-police-chief-homeless-beating.html

    • #64 by Disgusted on September 9, 2011

      Chickenshit Police Chief!!! All of the guilty are in hiding. Fucking cowards!!! Not so tough now are you? I sincerely hope his blood pressure is as bad as his doctor says, and I hope that it continues to rise until he pops. COWARD!!!

  16. #65 by fullerton lover on September 9, 2011

    @ 70% of 20,000 a month that’s $14,000 a month to sit on your ass and claim your too stressed out to take the heat that your own troops generated. If he was in the military they would have a guy like this in Fort Leavenworth for abandoning his post and/or malingering. What a piece of work Kommander Krusty the Klown is!

    • #66 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

      AAAAhahahahahaha……. EXACTLY!!!

    • #67 by Concerned Texan on September 9, 2011

      A little interesting side comment concerning the military. I was having a discussion with some Military Officers yesterday about the Kelly case, and apparently, in some situations active duty military officers actually have authority that supercedes the rank of any police officer at the scene. If several Army officers had stepped in to defend Kelly during the beating on July 5th, and had been harmed in anyway by the FPD, the DOD would be coming down on them like a ton of bricks.

    • #68 by SAVE the Fullerton Cops on September 9, 2011

      LMOA

      70% of 20 million is what Ron Thomas gets for abondoning his son.

      • #69 by Jane on September 9, 2011

        He didn’t abandon his son…. you know nothing about mental illness now do you?

        Kelly was murdered plain and simple…don’t be dumb ok… its really annoying that people don’t use deductive reasoning. Kelly was well and alive until he was beaten to death. All of the medical reports show he didn’t have any alcohol or drugs in his system.

        Now wake up!

    • #70 by SouthSiide on September 10, 2011

      and don’t forget, its tax free and it won’t deminish his Fullerton pension because its “medical” . what a hero. he should go to work for homeland sequirity

  17. #71 by MeYou on September 9, 2011

    CocoWalter :
    Around 9 minutes, the witnesses on bus, claim that many people recorded it, where are they???

    under lock and key in one of the two camps offices

  18. #72 by merijoe on September 9, 2011

    At 1:27 the lady said they were “pulling his hair and kicking the shit out of him” I dont believe I have heard this before, was this stated and I missed it?

    • #73 by streets of fullerton on September 9, 2011

      Yes “pulling hair” is partially correct. Witness to the beating recalls officer lifting his head by his hair to reveal a pool of blood beneath his head.

  19. #74 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

    “Fullerton Police Sgt. Andrew NOGoodrich said the city received a letter requesting a 30-day extension from the chief’s doctor. Sellers earns $228,576 annually.”
    ^
    WTF. Who is this lying POS doctor letting Sellers abandon his post?
    Sellers get another papercut counting his cash?

  20. #75 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

    Concerned Texan :
    @ Eye: I respectfully disagree. The Coroner’s *job* is irrelevant in this situation because of a superceeding cause of death certificate issued by medical doctor who treated the patient before the coroner received the body. His (the Coroner’s) statement does not matter legally because there is already a certified cause of death.

    I concur! If they walk, the Fed’s will most definitely step in.

    • #76 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      “If they walk, the Fed’s will most definitely step in.”

      What, and charge the cops with denying Kelly his civil rights? It’s possible but I wouldn’t count on it. It took the biggest race riot in US history to get then to do it in the King matter. That’s not gonna happen here.

      • #77 by dixiejon on September 10, 2011

        five cops in NOLA just got 15 yrs for killing/covering up murders. its what put klansman away. the feds dont mind prosecuting bad cops. makes them look honest.

    • #78 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      Certified by whom? Just because the doctor’s opinion appaers on a certificate doesn’t make it certtified. :-)

      If the doctor’s opinion, as stated on the certificate of death, supercedes the coroner’s report, why conduct an autopsy at all?

      The whole purpose of a forensic internal autopsy is to determine the cause of death. In addition, an autopsy provides answers to questions such as “was the doctor’s diagnosis correct and the appropriate treatment given?” The doctor’s opinion is preliminary, the coroner’s autopsy report is final.

      • #79 by One for the books on September 9, 2011

        Okay then, why don’t you just provide this forum with your analysis as to what the actual cause of death was!

        • #80 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

          That’s funny. I think you are confusing my personal opinion with regard to who and how Thomas was killed, with my opinion as to how the officer’s attorney’s are likely to defend the men.

          Again, my point is that the coroner’s report is crucial to convicting the officers in a court of law. Clearly, the UCI doctor’s opinion is enough for the court of public opinion, especially on a blog advocating justice for Kelly and pushing all kinds of conspiracy theories, but it won’t be enough for an OC jury charged with deciding whether or not to send police officers to prison.

          The opinion of the Board Certified Forensic Pathologist MDs employed by the people of Orange County, and for the specific purpose of determining the cause of death in criminal matter, carries far, far more weight than that of the attending physician. This will be pointed out to the jury by the defense if the coroner’s report is ambiguous, or in any other way unfavorable to the prosecution.

  21. #81 by MeYou on September 9, 2011

    I would appreciate if the sentence demanded they treat all the city council the same way they treated Kelly Thomas that day

    IMMEDIATELY

  22. #82 by MeYou on September 9, 2011

    merijoe :
    At 1:27 the lady said they were “pulling his hair and kicking the shit out of him” I dont believe I have heard this before, was this stated and I missed it?

    this is the first video from that night.. yes.. it has been posted forver

    like dude also said

    hard to resist when you are choking him

    the one cop that came kneed him first and then tasered him..

    /cry :(

  23. #83 by MeYou on September 9, 2011

    L.A. Times :
    Fullerton police chief extends leave amid homeless beating controversy
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/09/fullerton-police-chief-homeless-beating.html

    GIVE THE MONEY BACK SLOB

  24. #85 by streets of fullerton on September 9, 2011

    A person exiting the bus early in the video with the beany cap and side burns looks very much like that informant you posted on an earlier blog. If this is the case then his testimony can only be valid about anything he saw after the incident happened. He couldn’t have actually witnessed anything he said he saw.

    • #86 by Joe Blow on September 9, 2011

      How far into the video? I only watched the first 2 minutes & no one exiting the bus looked like the guy from the informant video.

  25. #87 by merijoe on September 9, 2011

    The “coroner” seems to be the Sheriff too-not an MD right?, so isnt it the “medical examiner” that makes determinations of injuries?

  26. #88 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

    Can someone explain the caption below this picture on the OCR to me? I thought the cell phone was lost?

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-310771–.html?pic=2

    • #89 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

      sorry, referring to caption under picture #9.

      • #90 by Johnny Donut on September 9, 2011

        That must be the phone that Bunny said she lost at the beach or something a few weeks ago. That photo is dated 8/4.

  27. #91 by SAVE the Fullerton Cops on September 9, 2011

    fullerton lover :@ 70% of 20,000 a month that’s $14,000 a month to sit on your ass and claim your too stressed out to take the heat that your own troops generated. If he was in the military they would have a guy like this in Fort Leavenworth for abandoning his post and/or malingering. What a piece of work Kommander Krusty the Klown is!

    70% of 20 million is what Ron Thomas gets for abondoning his son.

    • #92 by truthseeker on September 9, 2011

      I think he should sue for 100 million and then the city can file and cancel all the contracts. It may be the only way to clean house.

    • #93 by fullerton lover on September 9, 2011

      the correct spelling is “abandoning”, and I’m certain that state law say’s that at 18 years old your an adult and can go your own way no matter what your Father’s wishes may be.

      • #94 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

        The problem with correcting folks on their typos and spelling errors is this: It’s “you’re” not “your.” :-)

        • #95 by fullerton lover on September 9, 2011

          …I stand corrected. Your and adult should be you are an adult which is a contraction of you are. The second use of your in go your own way is still proper. Thanks.

    • #96 by fullerton lover on September 9, 2011

      …Chief Sellers, the Kommander of the Killer Klowns, is a disrace to the human race for accepting a dime of disabilty money for creating a situation that he put Ron Thomas and the town of Fullerton in. If this were my son, I’m not sure I would’ve been able to restrain myself from assbites like yourself and “Dick” (at least his mama got that part right) Jones, who keep running their mouthes via their poop chute’s.

    • #97 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      A heartless son of a bitch wrote: “70% of 20 million is what Ron Thomas gets for abondoning his son.”

      Read this asshole:

      “Ron Thomas… had been expecting such a call for years. He had learned some painful lessons as the parent of someone with a serious mental illness. He knew his son’s schizophrenia could be controlled at times but that it wasn’t going to go away, ever. And he knew that no amount of love for Kelly could save him…. “It tears me up,” said Ron Thomas, who raised Kelly on his own for several years after a divorce…. …Thomas told me there were nights over the years when he would get a call from friends or relatives who had spotted Kelly in a park or under an overpass. Thomas would get into his Chevy Tahoe, with its Vietnam vet license plate, and go retrieve his son. “How you doin’, Kelly,” he recalls saying on more than one occasion. “You wanna come home?” Kelly was better when he was on medication, Ron Thomas said. “But it’s not like taking aspirin for a headache,” he said…. The cycle began when Kelly was 22 and landed in jail on some minor offense. A deputy called Thomas and said he thought his son needed medical attention, not criminal detention. Kelly was in and out of board and care homes over the years, better for a while, then drifting again. In a more perfect world, there’d be more mental health outreach workers who go into the streets and steer clients back to supportive housing programs, where they can get the counseling and other help they need. Families can do only so much, and desperately need backup…..”

      http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/06/local/la-me-0807-lopez-kellythomas-20110805/2

      • #98 by Jane on September 9, 2011

        Thank you!! So many people are so quick to judge Ron Thomas, when they have no clue what its like to take care of a schizophrenic. I’m well aware, my brother has this disease along with depression and its heart breaking. My brother has also been in and out of board and cares, hospitals, and various houses from people who just want to make money. Its a very sad and depressing thing to watch your loved one suffer and there is nothing you can do.

        People need to have more compassion and empathy and quit assuming that everyone in the world is out for money. In this case its not true.

        • #99 by citizen x on September 9, 2011

          What many do not realize is that you cannot easily have a person committed against his will just for being bipolar. You can also not require a person to stay on meds, nor can you force a mentally ill adult to stay in your home, even if he is your son. Those who want to criticize Ron Thomas – what would you have done differently?

  28. #100 by BALLS OF CONFUSION on September 9, 2011

    Kudos to that bus driver. He asked some pointed, intelligent, amazing questions to those people as they arrived. He saw, as we can all see, how shocked and startled each and every one of them are as they board. His poise and composure in asking the questions is far better and probably more insightful than any detective probably is going to or has asked of these citizens. He is to be commended for his attitude and professionalism. You can hear as he speaks to a third party on the phone, how overcome he is at the information he is gathering.

    • #101 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      I think you might be overstating the case a bit, but yeah, he was great. I believe I heard him say something about pushing a button to save all the comments too. Agree, major props to the guy!

  29. #102 by still love fullerton on September 9, 2011

    for sure, he should be commended !!

    wonder if they checked the other buses cams??

  30. #103 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

    “The “coroner” seems to be the Sheriff too-not an MD right?”

    No.

    The OC coroner employs Forensic Assistants whose primary responsibilities include assisting Board Certified Forensic Pathologists, supplied by an outside contractor, with autopsy examinations.

    The Board Certified Forensic Pathologists are MD’s who have completed specialized training in anatomical pathology, and then sub-specialized training in forensic pathology. They are the medical doctor who specialize in determining cause of death, not the attending physicians.

    That’s why the whole idea of the UCI doctor’s opinion on the death certificate somehow superceeding the coroner’s opinion is utter nonsense.

    • #104 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      Put more simply, if your family doctor said to you “buddy I think your heart is fine,” and you then went to a cardiologist who said “nope, I think you’ve got a blockage.” You might *want* to believe your family doc, but if you are smart you’ll listen to the specialist. The coroner’s Board Certified Forensic Pathologists are the specialists.

    • #105 by Anonymous on September 10, 2011

      my question is the “coronoe” is not a medical doctor and…. yes.

  31. #106 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

    PT, like many of us, you sound very angry, and it’s obvious you would like to see the officers involved go to prison. Now let me ask you, do you want the OC DA to go off half cocked and charge the cops with lesser crimes for which he might be able to get convictions, or would you like for him to wait for the coroner to provide the findings of the forensic pathologists so the DA can possibly make a much stronger case for more serious charges?

    I too would like to think that the attending physician’s blunt assessment of the cause and means of death are enough to convict on charges such as murder one or two, but if the coroners report is less blunt and more ambiguous, that’s not gonna happen. The defense attorneys will simply point out that the people’s own experts, the medical doctors with specialized training in determining cause of death, don’t agree with the attending physician, and bang, just like that you’ve got a hole in the case big enough to drive a truck through.

    Fortunately the OC DA understands this, and he knows he must wait for the all-important autopsy report before determining what kind of charges he has a chance of going to court on, and winning a conviction that will send these police officers to prison.

    I know I sound like the devil’s advocate, but I’m simply trying to provide a little clarity and understanding of the situation.

    • #107 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      Hey, what happned to the post by ‘Police Thugs?’

  32. #108 by still love fullerton on September 9, 2011

    wow.. ???

  33. #109 by still love fullerton on September 9, 2011

    i refreshed and it disappeared !

  34. #110 by still love fullerton on September 9, 2011

  35. #111 by Fullerton on September 9, 2011

    Fullerton cops and Orange County sheriffs never like people with video camera or video phones around them for many good reasons: to protect themselves.
    Orange County Sheriffs and Fullerton Polices are banning video and camera for many good reasons: protect themselves from prosecutions.

  36. #112 by Simple Justice on September 9, 2011

    Video time 4:55 to 5:40 is descriptive of events. Seems one of the first two cops held Kelly down in the gutter with some sort of choke hold and the other was on top of him. Then the next officers to arrive on scene applied tasers.

    At time 5:16, it sounds like the male witness says “The one that came with the taser kneed him first, then tased him.”

  37. #113 by Paul on September 9, 2011

    Enjoyed the tape since it will help put “Cyclops” in jail! Sometimes it is best that all the tapes not be provided to the DA office. They get misplaced when its to be used to try policemen. Better they show up in the hands of Mardrossian to show lying and coverups, that always makes the settlement dollars rise! Fullerton be prepared for some huge payouts for perjury, coverups, the usual in these cases!

  38. #114 by R.D. on September 9, 2011

    Release the bus 26 video!

    • #115 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      I heard the bus driver in this video explain to the riders that not all the busses have a camera system like his does, so there might not be a bus 26 video. I guess if there was we would have seen it already, OCTA doesn’t seem to mind getting ‘em out there.

  39. #116 by Wrong Guy on September 9, 2011

    Well that’s just too f”n bad for the FPD and O.C. Sheriff and L.A. County Sheriff and any other law enforcement personnel that had a tissy when one is video recording them. There was a supreme court ruling last week that now allows citizens to video cops at any time, as long as they do not interfere with their job. I am carrying that with me in my glove compartment along with my camcorder and penal code book. That is just some of the things we as citizens can do to protect ourselves from these gang-banger-like cops.

    • #117 by whitey bulger on September 9, 2011

      The animal cops will still intimidate and assault people who video their violence. You will see the cops still arresting people and destroying phnes and cameras.

  40. #118 by MeYou on September 9, 2011

    SAVE the Fullerton Cops :

    fullerton lover :@ 70% of 20,000 a month that’s $14,000 a month to sit on your ass and claim your too stressed out to take the heat that your own troops generated. If he was in the military they would have a guy like this in Fort Leavenworth for abandoning his post and/or malingering. What a piece of work Kommander Krusty the Klown is!

    70% of 20 million is what Ron Thomas gets for abondoning his son.

    BIITCH! His son is worth at least the price of 6 pigs at fullerton police department.. dont you think
    what do those piggies make

    and their commanding officers
    and the scum shitholes that run that city…

    they didn’t SAY ANYTHING UNTIL THE MEDIA FORCED THEM TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    The ones who ALLOWED THOSE ANIMALS to KEEP THEIR BADGES for 3 weeks.. they need more punishment than the perps

  41. #119 by MeYou on September 9, 2011

    Simple Justice :
    Video time 4:55 to 5:40 is descriptive of events. Seems one of the first two cops held Kelly down in the gutter with some sort of choke hold and the other was on top of him. Then the next officers to arrive on scene applied tasers.
    At time 5:16, it sounds like the male witness says “The one that came with the taser kneed him first, then tased him.”

    and he said “hard to resist when they are choking him”

    this WAS A MURDER PLAIN AND SIMPLE

    very plain

  42. #120 by Get real on September 9, 2011

    That video says it all… Nothing else to debate. Cops beat the life out of him in front of witnesses. Now, bring on the criminal charges!

  43. #121 by MeYou on September 9, 2011

    i wish the blue line coroner bitch would get off her ass and stop being a blue line bitch.. If it is Hutchens.. she is a criminal blue line supporter

    I posted her comments before.. and PERSONALLY I think the DA and Sheriffs get together and make sure the boys in blue never face time for crimes they do while wearing the badge

    they make court into a circus and play

    • #122 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      It’s possible there is a more prosaic explanation for the coroner’s delay in getting a final report on the cause of death over to the OC DA. It could be simple incompetence.

      A full blown toxicology screening reportedly takes six to eight weeks. Kelly Thomas has been dead for nine weeks, but the whole affair didn’t blow up publicly until Ron Thomas addressed the Fullerton City Council on August 2nd. So That was five weeks ago.

      I noticed on the Certificate of Death that the UCI doctor apparently did not order an autopsy, even though it was his opinion that Kelly died due to an assault.

      It seems quite possible to me that the coroner’s office also dropped the ball and may not have submitted Kelly’s blood and tissue samples for a tox screen until after Ron Thomas’ Aug. 2nd city council appearance set off a firestorm of protest.

      This would explain why the OC DA and the sheriff/coroner keep insisting that they expect the report to be completed “soon.” They know it will be ready for six to eight weeks after they finally got around to ordering the tox screen. Meanwhile, they have to just absorb the charges of a cover-up because they don’t want to have to admit that they screwed up, and only did their job after the public rose up in arms.

    • #123 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      “…PERSONALLY I think the DA and Sheriffs get together and make sure the boys in blue never face time for crimes they do while wearing the badge.”

      I suppose this could be a sham, fake outrage at being called out by a deputy DA for the “blue wall,” but my gut says no…

      OC Deputies Outraged That DA Attacked Their Honesty; Demand Top Resignation!
      By R. Scott Moxley Sat., Apr. 18 2009

      “…usually in lockstep, Orange County law enforcement bitterly split ranks. Specifically, the Orange County District Attorney’s office sparked a public feud with local sheriff’s deputies, whom prosecutors believe sabotaged their just-ended excessive force case against Deputy Christopher David Hibbs…”
      http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2009/04/oc_deputies_outraged_that_da_a.php

    • #124 by fullerton lover on September 9, 2011

      …they listed each other as “friends” on Facebook.

    • #125 by Concerned Californian on September 12, 2011

      They can make the court into a circus and play all they want. It still doesn’t look good for them.

  44. #126 by Wrong Guy on September 9, 2011

    Then we’ll sue them for breaking our sh*%.

  45. #127 by Xer on September 9, 2011

    Haven’t read all these posts yet, so don’t know if this has been asked, but while it is great FFFF was able to get this video from the transit people, has anyone checked to see if there are any other recordings from busses closer during and before the beatdown of Kelly Thomas? It might turn up some pretty incriminating stuff on the FPD 666.

    FFFF for the umpteenth time, thank you for expending so much energy in this cause and providing us a place to come learn, and exchange info and observations, not to mention occasionally vent at trolls. Political affiliations and differences be hanged, you are a credit to your community!

    Good on the FFFF.

  46. #128 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

    EyeNeverSayNo :
    “…PERSONALLY I think the DA and Sheriffs get together and make sure the boys in blue never face time for crimes they do while wearing the badge.”
    I suppose this could be a sham, fake outrage at being called out by a deputy DA for the “blue wall,” but my gut says no…
    OC Deputies Outraged That DA Attacked Their Honesty; Demand Top Resignation!
    By R. Scott Moxley Sat., Apr. 18 2009
    “…usually in lockstep, Orange County law enforcement bitterly split ranks. Specifically, the Orange County District Attorney’s office sparked a public feud with local sheriff’s deputies, whom prosecutors believe sabotaged their just-ended excessive force case against Deputy Christopher David Hibbs…”
    http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2009/04/oc_deputies_outraged_that_da_a.php

    like I said..

    they dropped the case instead of doing the right thing.. and prosecuting cops for perjury

    anyhow.. that is one case.. you feel like a stooge here to me..

    show us another one where the DA either
    prosecuted TO THE FULLLLLLLLLLEST EXTENT OF HIS POWERS
    or convicted his smurfs
    for abuse of badge

    • #129 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 10, 2011

      “…show us another one where the DA either
      prosecuted TO THE FULLLLLLLLLLEST EXTENT OF HIS POWERS…”

      That’s pretty subjective criteria mr. namecaller… but as requested here’s another for you, google “Irvine cop david allen park ejaculates”

      Three felonies… I’m sure you won’t think that this one was prosecuted quite fully either, even though the DA was accused of overcharging…

      Oh and yes, as mentioned previously, in the Hibbs case the DA did not refile after prosecuting Hibbs to the fullest extent possible… there was no case left, either against Hibbs, or the officers for perjury after the cop/witnesses artfully modified their p;revious testimony and/or developed amnesia.

      BTW, perjury is not an easy thing to prove, as statements that are interpretations of fact are not considered to be perjury, nor are inaccurate recollections or mistaken beliefs. Another example: An officer can tell the grand jury one thing, and then later claim to have no memory of that thing and this too is not considered perjurious.

  47. #130 by id on September 9, 2011

    yeah, someone needs to track down the video from the number 26 bus that the guy says was pointed right at the beating.

    around 6:00 on the tape.

    ride the 26 and ask the drivers what they saw and what happened to the tape.

    • #131 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 10, 2011

      The driver of the bus in the video up top can be heard telling the pasengers that not every bus has a cameras and a DVR like his does… he also told the riders that he had pressed a button to save the recording of their comments. I suspect that if OCTA was in possesion of video from bus 26 we would have already seen it, based upon their demonstrated willingness to make the above video available.

  48. #132 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

    What did the guy on the bus say happened at around 9:21?
    sounded like; a officer told me to move or…
    anyone?

  49. #133 by Ron on September 9, 2011

    Interesting. The bus that that shows up in the interview with Mr. MarkTurgeon(sp?) is No. 26.

  50. #134 by Chris on September 9, 2011

    I just can’t understand what the coroner’s report could say…and how in the world it could possibly differ from the crystal clear report from the doctor at the hospital. Kelly had multiple and severe fractures in his face, broken ribs, internal bleeding, and x-rays and MRIs clearly prove that.

    He couldn’t breathe because his lungs were being filled with his own blood. (This is just getting too graphic, but it’s the horrible truth).

    Now how in the world is the coroner or a defense lawyer going to try to say that Kelly died from anything other than the beating? I mean, what are they going to say “Oh yes, we realize his cheek bones and ribs were broken, and that his brain wasn’t getting enough oxygen because of his crushed windpipe…but hey, he really died because he was homeless!”

    I mean, really. That goes beyond ludicrous and idiotic. If a jury saw the medical report that Ron Thomas released…how are they possibly going to come up with a defense against that?

    • #135 by Anonymous on September 9, 2011

      The DA is stuck. The cover up has miserably failed and their worst nightmare has come true. They have all been caught red handed with no way out. The truth is all over the place and they can’t hide any of it. All the lies are exposed. This will be the end of TRack’s career either way. If he handled it right from the get go it would have been a different story. Now he has lost the trust of the citizenry and the unions will hang him as his hand is forced with the indictments. Change is coming and change is good.

    • #136 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      —-”I just can’t understand what the coroner’s report could say…and how in the world it could possibly differ…”

      Why does it have to say something entirely different? The forensic pathologists could reach the same conclusion as the attending physician, or could add even more damning detail. The point is, that’s the job of the specialists, to reach a final, definitive conclusion at to the exact cause of death.

      —-”If a jury saw the medical report that Ron Thomas released…how are they possibly going to come up with a defense against that?”

      By “they” I assume you mean the defense team? For one thing, absent a coroner’s report the defense team could easily pick apart the doctor’s conclusion: “So Dr. X, did you open the chest cavity and weigh the heart?” No. “Dr. X, did you inspect the heart’s ventricles for blockages?” No. “So Dr. X, you want the ladies and gentlemen of the jury to believe beyond all reasonable doubt that Mr. Thomas’ heart stopped due to the Tasering but you never checked to see if it could have stopped due to natural causes? And the prosecutor wants to send my client to prison for the rest of his life based at least partially upon an incomplete examination of the victim’s body?”

      “Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the people have given you a preliminary conclusion based upon tests and observations designed to allow the doctors to make quick decisions related to determining a proper course of treatment, they are not the kind of tests properly used to determine beyond a reasonable doubt the cause of death. The hospital’s quick and simple toxicology test, for example, took just one hour to complete and was designed to help the doctors with their treatment plan, while the medical examiner typically orders up a detailed toxicology report that takes weeks to properly complete. And again, the DA wants you to send my client to prison based on that simple and less than 100% accurate test?”

      Get it now?

      • #137 by Anonymous on September 10, 2011

        A rebuttal if case went to trial TODAY:

        “Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the defense has given you a preliminary conclusion based upon tests and observations designed to allow doctors to determine a cause of death…well after death. Months after death as so is the case. Let me say that again…MONTHS…AFTER…DEATH.

        The determinations of said doctors cannot, and do not, supersede what signs/symptoms, injuries and treatments actually took place in the course of saving this man’s life, no. Of course the defense would have you believe that this toxicology report takes 6-8 weeks to complete in a complete and thorough manner, even though we are at week number 9. Okay, so the defense is only 1-3 weeks late, and that is at best. Very interesting to have a late cause of death when the attending physician…in 5 days no mind you, had to determine that this man would never awaken from the coma he was put in, nevertheless, walk again. Do you really think for one second that Mr. Thomas died from an overdose of drugs and alcohol, that were not present in his system, in mid-beating? Did he die from an overdose of drugs and alcohol, that were not in his system, 110 hours after the beating?

        Had it been you, it would come as not the surprise when the certificate declaring your brain death reads that it was caused by head trauma. A head trauma caused not by some slip and fall down some stairs, but caused by an assault by another human being. The death of another human being occurred at the hands of other human beings. Never mind the electrical voltage put through your body, at least 5-6 times by witnesses. Never mind the 50,000 volts that charges through you at 5 seconds per trigger pull, and multiply that by 5-6.

        There is a video of this homicide occurring, you’ve seen it (hopefully in it’s entirety). Yes, I use the word “homicide”, do you care to know why?

        The literal definition of homicide being: the killing of one human being by another. “

        • #138 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 10, 2011

          Very good, but fortunately the case will not go to trial TODAY and the officers will not be charged until all of the evidence is in and appropriate charges determined. That’s the point.

          • #139 by Anonymous on September 10, 2011

            Thanks. Yours was impressive too.

            This whole event is going to play out very interestingly if charges are ever filed.

  51. #140 by merijoe on September 9, 2011

    who is the medical examiner? is he/she also covering? I would assume the ME would be the one to report the findings to the coroner

    • #141 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      Not unless the Board Certified Pathologists (or ME’s as you call them) want to risk losing their hard earned medical licenses to participate in a cover-up and help out a bunch of GED cops. Get real. That makes zero sense.

      • #142 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

        By the way, the Board Certified Forensic Pathologists utilized by the OC coroner’s office Forensic Unit do not work directly for the county, they are employed by Juguilon Medical Corporation, a private company that has absolutely no motivation or reason whatsoever to participate in any cover-up to help out a bunch of thug cops. They are doctors with highly specialized training that takes many years to complete, and they make a lot of money for the work they do. Do you really think they would risk their careers for Hampton, Cicinelli et al? Come on, all this conspiracy stuff is total nonsense.

        • #143 by Ronald Monerief Jr. on September 10, 2011

          You mean these people?

          http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/post-mortem/real-csi/

          “The sheriff-coroner in Orange County, Calif., contracts with Juguilon Medical Corporation to provide autopsies. One of the company’s doctors has failed the certification exam at least five times, acknowledged Dr. Anthony Juguilon, the company’s chief, in an e-mail.”

          • #144 by Jt on September 10, 2011

            Nice find.

          • #145 by Anonymous on September 10, 2011

            Just wow!

          • #146 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 10, 2011

            Yeah, I saw that yesterday.

            To be fair, Juguilon Medical consists of a total of five Forensic Pathologists, four are Board Certified and the fifth is the one to which Frontline refers. Notice there is no cover-up. Frontline asked the company owner about this fifth “Board Eligible” pathologist’s difficulty in passing the certification exam and he acknowledged such.

            It’s worth noting that just to get to the point of being eligible to take the Forensic Pathology Board Certification exam typically require thirteen years of education, residency and specialized training after high school.

            For those of you questioning the competancy of Juguilon’s pathologists, even the one of the five who has yet to pass the board, how many of you spent thirteen years after high school training for your profession?

            Just wondering… :-)

      • #147 by merijoe on September 10, 2011

        I AM trying to GET REAL and I AM making sense-if you would bother to read what I wrote and save the bitchiness you’d understand, Im asking that question because the ME, as I call them, investigates the body, not the coroner-Doesnt the coroner have to report to the public (me and you) the ME’s results (my point)? so if what you say is true, the ME would say something if the coroner lies right? and EyeNever, dont answer, if you feel thats stupid-I dont think it is but then again Im not an idiot

        • #148 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 10, 2011

          Sorry, I apologize if I came off as bitchy, it’s just becoming more and more difficult to answer questions when it seems like so many have made up their minds based on extremely limited knowledge while are buying into ridiculous conspiracy theories.

          “ME,” or “medical examiner” is a poor term to use here because it is a title often used by non-physician elected officials. Same with ‘coroner.’

          In OC autopsies are performed by Forensic Pathologists who are MD’s with specialized training. Typically 13 years of education and residency after high school before they even become eligible to take the test for Board Certification. So yes, I would think that these highly paid people would be beyond reluctant to risk their hard won careers by signing off on a doctored report, or allowing their findings to be misrepresented in any potential criminal case, let alone a very high profile one such as the murder of Kelly Thomas.

  52. #149 by citizen x on September 9, 2011

    Hope this is not too off topic, but is Robert Kirk the missing sixth of the FPD 6? I am trying to deduce this from what I am reading online.

    • #150 by fullerton lover on September 9, 2011

      …you mean Robert “I get it” Kirk. I wouldn’t be surprised as I’ve complained about him before to the city council and to Chief Sellers. I was expecting an apology to be forthcoming from someone, and instead I received an e-mail from Captain Kevin Hamilton saying that I was out of line to complain about Officer Kirk and I responded to him and the city council in such a manner wasn’t very Christian and certainly isn’t printable in this forum.

      • #151 by Jt on September 10, 2011

        Wait a sec. A civilian is “out of line” for complaining to a Police Captain about one of the officers under his supervision?

        Would you mind telling us more about the nature of your complaint? The more people share information about abusive police behavior the better.

      • #152 by Jt on September 10, 2011

        oh yeah, by the way, everything is printable in this forum.

    • #154 by Peaceinfullerton on September 10, 2011

      Sgt Kevin Craig is 6th man,

  53. #155 by Fullerton on September 9, 2011

    If these crooks confiscated your videos in a faithful night, please come forward or contact FFFF.
    FFFF is our only trusted friends. We can compare notes. The dead cannot speak with his lung full of blood, but we make sure Kelly Thomas has a fair justices.

  54. #156 by fedupwithmorons on September 9, 2011

    AN ADDITIONAL CAUSE OF DEATH WOULD BE DUE TO EXSANGUINATION, RON THOMAS SAID KELLY WAS BLEEDING OUT. THE CONCRETE AT THE BUS TERMINAL DEPICTS HOW LARGE OF A BLOOD POOLING THERE WAS AT THE SCENE. THE CONCRETE IS STILL STAINED WITH KELLY’S BLOOD.

    • #157 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 9, 2011

      The pictures I saw, although shocking to the average person, did not depict a large amount of blood. Less than a liter. Barely a Class II Hemorrhage. Pour a quart or liter of motor oil on the ground and you’d have a much larger puddle. The human body typically contains about five liters of blood, Kelly Thomas was a long way from bleeding out based on what I saw in the pics.

      • #158 by merijoe on September 10, 2011

        A person can internally bleed out

        • #159 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 10, 2011

          True, but I was responding to “fedups” specific comment with regard to the amount of “blood pooling” on the concrete.

  55. #160 by SAVE the Fullerton Cops on September 10, 2011

    MeYou :

    SAVE the Fullerton Cops :

    fullerton lover :@ 70% of 20,000 a month that’s $14,000 a month to sit on your ass and claim your too stressed out to take the heat that your own troops generated. If he was in the military they would have a guy like this in Fort Leavenworth for abandoning his post and/or malingering. What a piece of work Kommander Krusty the Klown is!

    70% of 20 million is what Ron Thomas gets for abondoning his son.

    BIITCH! His son is worth at least the price of 6 pigs at fullerton police department.. dont you thinkwhat do those piggies make
    and their commanding officersand the scum shitholes that run that city…
    they didn’t SAY ANYTHING UNTIL THE MEDIA FORCED THEM TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    The ones who ALLOWED THOSE ANIMALS to KEEP THEIR BADGES for 3 weeks.. they need more punishment than the perps

    Wow did I hit a nerve….
    Sellers was not there and he was probably at home sleeping. Blame Blame Blame. However you have an issue with him on medical leave and collecting his pay? ??$14,000. estimated? you really do not know? BUT you have no issue with Ron Thomas and his family collecting 20 million? from Fullerton? Something Fullerton will take years to pay.

    All of you who hate Fullerton, the city, the PD and the city leaders? all of OC leaders the OCDA. That is most of you on this site?

    MOVE MOVE Run Run Run for your lives.

    Do not stay in Fullerton or OC and take the homeless with you. I hear Riverside, LA County and San Bernardino is filled with your kind.

    Just Sad and Cal Stare Fullerton will also suffer because of this.

    LET ME KNOW HOW MANY times Ron Thomas and family atteneded the Fullerton homeless commitee? how many times he visited his son monthly? how many times did he take his son food? What Mentally Ill groups he beloned to?

    NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE..

    NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NO

    • #161 by Jt on September 10, 2011

      “Do not stay in Fullerton or OC and take the homeless with you.”

      This kind of says it all. Thanks for reinforcing the rest of the world’s worst stereotypes about Orange County for us.

    • #162 by SAVE the FuIIerton Cops on September 10, 2011

      My posts scream of mental ILLNESS ILLNESS ILLNESS ILLNESS ILLNESS ILLNESS ILLNESS

      • #163 by GOOD FOR YOU!! on September 10, 2011

        They say admitting you have a problem, is half the battle!!!

        Best of luck !!

        • #164 by Anonymous on September 10, 2011

          LOL!

      • #165 by merijoe on September 10, 2011

        yes, the coppers/pyschcopaths/FPD are indeed, mentally ill

    • #166 by fullerton lover on September 10, 2011

      …personally I was never taught the meaning of the word “quit”.

    • #167 by Disgusted on September 10, 2011

      Spoken like a genuine Fullerton PIG!!! Now I believe that you are the real deal. A prime example of what is wrong with FPD and what kind of shit will need to be weeded out before the FPD will ever have credibility in the community again. I wish you had the balls to identify yourself. But like your fellow pigs and your chickenshit chief, you are a COWARD!

      A COWARD! A COWARD! A COWARD! A COWARD! A COWARD! A COWARD! A COWARD! A COWARD!

    • #168 by fullerton lover on September 10, 2011

      Logistically I think it would be much easier to show the door to the perpretrators and the Chief…none of whom live here in Fullerton.

  56. #169 by ken roesner on September 10, 2011

    Bottom line what these Fullerton police did makes no sense. Kelley Thomas frequently wandered into Placentia. How come P.P. did’nt beat Kelley? I hope the WHOLE truth comes out soon.

  57. #170 by Ronald Monerief Jr. on September 10, 2011

    Chris :
    I just can’t understand what the coroner’s report could say…and how in the world it could possibly differ from the crystal clear report from the doctor at the hospital. Kelly had multiple and severe fractures in his face, broken ribs, internal bleeding, and x-rays and MRIs clearly prove that.
    He couldn’t breathe because his lungs were being filled with his own blood. (This is just getting too graphic, but it’s the horrible truth).
    Now how in the world is the coroner or a defense lawyer going to try to say that Kelly died from anything other than the beating? I mean, what are they going to say “Oh yes, we realize his cheek bones and ribs were broken, and that his brain wasn’t getting enough oxygen because of his crushed windpipe…but hey, he really died because he was homeless!”
    I mean, really. That goes beyond ludicrous and idiotic. If a jury saw the medical report that Ron Thomas released…how are they possibly going to come up with a defense against that?

    Read the entire report. It is absolutely crucial that you do this. Aside from the brain damage and severe facial injuries,
    Kelly Thomas suffered renal failure. The paramedics had difficulty stabilizing him due to the severity of the facial injuries. It wasn’t just the actions of a single doctor that the defense has to contest. A number of personnel were involved and struggled with Kelly’s condition including the paramedics. Kelly’s heart was already failing and he was experiencing seizures. The brain tissue was already dead.

    The report states that Kelly was experiencing rhabdomyolysis upon arrival at the hospital. It doesn’t state which hospital it was. Kelly was first taken to Saint Jude Medical Center which was literally right down the street. He was then transferred to UC Irvine Healthcare. If Kelly Thomas experienced brain damage, heart failure, and kidney failure by the time he arrived at a hospital right down the street, that can give you an idea of how bad they beat him.

    The doctor that admitted Kelly at UCI was this man:

    http://www.healthcare.uci.edu/findadoctor/bio.aspx?hsid=500002531

    I sincerely doubt the Coroner’s office will able to contest or otherwise dispute anything this man has to say.

    • #171 by Anonymous on September 10, 2011

      I think the OC coroner is going to find that hard to beat.

      • #172 by whitey bulger on September 10, 2011

        If the coroner is under pressure to make these cops look innocent, the DA will drop the charges. The DA has his career to protect. The DA has probably been promised political support by the police unions, that’s tough tough to ignore when he has higher ambitions. It’s the way it is.

        • #173 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 10, 2011

          “If the coroner is under pressure to make these cops look innocent…”

          The coroner’s report will be based on an autopsy performed by a team of four Board Certified Forensic Pathologists. They are MD’s with highly specialized training who work for a private corporation called Juguilon Medical that contracts with the county to provide forensic services. The idea that these medical doctors who have spent many years in college, medical school and residency, would risk their very highly paid careers to protect a few thug cops in Fullerton from prosecution is simply ludicrous.

  58. #174 by george on September 10, 2011

    a friend of mine was in fullerton last october and witnessed an officer grab a guy yank him to the ground and beat a guy senseless , my friend told me that it was completely unprovoked . He, a harvard law school graduate , was so outrage that that he confronted the officer re actions and luckily his friends grabbbed him b/4 the officer could respond. My friend said he got the name of the officer and spoke to the watch commander. The problem in fullerton appears to be sytematic. The law was and has been acting lawlessly . My friends complaint re fullerton officer predated K.T.’s death. It could hv been prevented . The fullerton p.d. appear to be a group of thugs w/ a badge . When 4 officer may have sat around while one of their own was beating a man to death says more about the police world than words could ever say.

    • #175 by Jt on September 10, 2011

      Could you ask your friend the name of the officer and any other info he might have?

      • #176 by george on September 10, 2011

        he in fact called and spoke to a d.a. investagator and gave the name of the officer and his recollection of the events ,

        • #177 by Jt on September 10, 2011

          I understand being reluctant to name that name in public, but the citizens of Fullerton are conducting our own investigation. Any reports of police brutality, we want to know about them and which officers committed them. Please ask your friend to permit you to post that name here.

          • #178 by george on September 11, 2011

            my friend was shocked by the actions of the fullerton cop , illk get the name , do u know where i can get the roster of all of the fullerton officers?

  59. #179 by Wrong Guy on September 10, 2011

    What’s the matter SAVE? Looks like your spewing more spew now that all of this evidence and facts are surfacing against your ‘dirty little piggies’.
    Such a shame. Why can’t you face the facts and admit your FPD thugs initiated an arrest against Kelly Thomas, without Probable Cause, then they harrassed him, more than likely telling him to run because they get a thrill out of hunting humans. Then they caught him and proceeded to fullfill their animalistic desires and beat him to death like the ‘pack of wild hyenas’ that they are. They were so ‘out of control’ they performed this barbaric act in front of many citizens that caught them in the act. Are you a human hunter too Save? Assuming you are in law enforcement, how many times have you attempted something like this. Had I been present, I would have shot as many officers in the head as possible before they took my life, in the hopes of preventing an innocent man’s life from being taken by the people sworn in to protect and serve us.

  60. #180 by streets of fullerton on September 10, 2011

    according to witnesses conversation on the bus they beat him for 20 min. from 8:50 to 9:10 (at 17:45 in the video)

  61. #181 by Suzanne on September 10, 2011

    I HOPE and PRAY for KELLY THOMPAS.So SAD a human being went through such horriable animaliistic nasty inhuman SALVAGE BEATING.BY six over grown PIGS….

  62. #182 by MeYou on September 10, 2011

    SAVE the Fullerton Cops :

    MeYou :

    SAVE the Fullerton Cops :

    fullerton lover :@ 70% of 20,000 a month that’s $14,000 a month to sit on your ass and claim your too stressed out to take the heat that your own troops generated. If he was in the military they would have a guy like this in Fort Leavenworth for abandoning his post and/or malingering. What a piece of work Kommander Krusty the Klown is!

    70% of 20 million is what Ron Thomas gets for abondoning his son.

    BIITCH! His son is worth at least the price of 6 pigs at fullerton police department.. dont you thinkwhat do those piggies make
    and their commanding officersand the scum shitholes that run that city…
    they didn’t SAY ANYTHING UNTIL THE MEDIA FORCED THEM TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    The ones who ALLOWED THOSE ANIMALS to KEEP THEIR BADGES for 3 weeks.. they need more punishment than the perps

    Wow did I hit a nerve….
    Sellers was not there and he was probably at home sleeping. Blame Blame Blame. However you have an issue with him on medical leave and collecting his pay? ??$14,000. estimated? you really do not know? BUT you have no issue with Ron Thomas and his family collecting 20 million? from Fullerton? Something Fullerton will take years to pay.
    All of you who hate Fullerton, the city, the PD and the city leaders? all of OC leaders the OCDA. That is most of you on this site?
    MOVE MOVE Run Run Run for your lives.
    Do not stay in Fullerton or OC and take the homeless with you. I hear Riverside, LA County and San Bernardino is filled with your kind.
    Just Sad and Cal Stare Fullerton will also suffer because of this.
    LET ME KNOW HOW MANY times Ron Thomas and family atteneded the Fullerton homeless commitee? how many times he visited his son monthly? how many times did he take his son food? What Mentally Ill groups he beloned to?
    NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE..
    NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE NO

    I still don’t understand what this has to do with Ron Thomas…

    THINK :)

    If the cops wouldn’t have been growing a culture within its walls that let each other murder a homeless man and put badges back on then this wouldn’t be happening.

    SO, once again.. this case has nothing to do with ron thomas whatsoever

    tell the cops not to murder citizens..

    “Murdering citizens is bad.. mmmmmkay”

  63. #183 by Gloryann777 on September 10, 2011

    These events happen all the time. W.Covina offered $1.5 million to a slain man’s family who was beaten to death by the officers who claimed he took their batton back in 11/17/2008 and Target had it on their video recording system and refused to release it. The 24 year man was at Target applying for a job. The 2 officers are still on the job. This is why their suicide rate is so high.

  64. #184 by Simple Justice on September 10, 2011

    What if there had been no surveillance videos or cell phones that night?

    This case has shown that a lie can travel around the world, literally, before the truth puts on its shoes. By the time the fiction writers had completed their reports, Kelly’s obituary would have read “burglarizing police assaulter”. A recent article advocating police sensitivity training even said kelly was stealing cars. This could happen to anyone.

    If Kelly hadn’t died, he would have had a trial and lost his case miserably. He couldn’t just plead guilty like he always did when some business owner filed a complaint about him. This time, open-sky Kelly would have gone away for a long time awaiting trial in a west wing cubicle at Theo Lacy for cop assaulters.

    Since he died as a victim, who is his advocate in the criminal justice system? Who is out there on a soap box championing his cause? The police are lawyered up, and those lawyers release statements when it suits them. So does FPD, the DA and the Coroner.

    Some attack Ron Thomas for not taking a quick settlement and walking away, but if he did, what then? Only FFFF readers would know about Veth Mam, false reports, perjury, medical records, prosecutorial patterns and a host of other troubling revelations. Citizens of Orange County are getting a peek behind the curtain that some government officials don’t want them to see.

    The ears of a lot of dads perked up around the world when they heard Kelly’s cry. Some still want to silence that voice with blunt cruelty towards Kelly, his family and anyone who is outraged, but those folks who care are staying tuned.

  65. #185 by pork eater on September 10, 2011

    here is the contact info for the OCTA. their admin offices are closed on the weekend. but call them on monday and ask them where the #26 bus videotape went. (the guys and the driver in the video above refer to it, saying the bus and camera were pointed right at the killing.)

    http://www.octa.net/contact_us.aspx

  66. #186 by We Are All One on September 10, 2011

    Well said Simple Justice

  67. #187 by Anonymous on September 10, 2011

    SAVE the Fullerton Cops :

    fullerton lover :@ 70% of 20,000 a month that’s $14,000 a month to sit on your ass and claim your too stressed out to take the heat that your own troops generated. If he was in the military they would have a guy like this in Fort Leavenworth for abandoning his post and/or malingering. What a piece of work Kommander Krusty the Klown is!

    70% of 20 million is what Ron Thomas gets for abondoning his son.

    He’s out for “high blood pressure.” Who doesn’t have high blood pressure during an unusually stressful time. Complete bullshit.
    This is one of the reasons why so many in the private sector have such disdain for public sector workers. 70% of L.A. County Sheriffs go out on “4850″ disability just before retirement, and consider it an “entitlement.” Those in law enforcement know exactly what this is.

  68. #188 by David Eggers on September 10, 2011

    Don’t delete comments here. This blog has my highest respect. The only forums I see doing that are ones where the truth isn’t on there side. In this case, the truth will prevail. People who make uneducated posts only hurt their cause. Like the old saying, “give em enough rope to hang themselves”

  69. #189 by Check Reality on September 10, 2011

    Interesting commentary on the incident here.

    He reads the article from USA Today and then gives his commentary which starts at about 07:20

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAMb-lG-Hb8

  70. #190 by Xer on September 10, 2011

    Man Armed With Knife Shocked By Deputies At Coachella Valley High
    Sep 9, 2011 1:00 p.m.

    THERMAL, Calif.—A deputy used a stun gun to subdue and arrest a suspicious man at Coachella Valley High School today, a sheriff’s deputy said.

    Around 8:20 a.m., school security personnel told a sheriff’s deputy assigned to the school at 83800 Airport Blvd. that a man was trespassing on campus, sheriff’s Deputy Angel Ramos said.

    “The officer located the (man) and learned that he was in possession of a knife, which is illegal to possess on school grounds,” Ramos said. “The officer arrested the man but during the arrest the man resisted as he was being handcuffed. The officer deployed his Taser, and after a short struggle was able to subdue the suspect without serious injury to the officer or the suspect.”

    It was not known why the suspect, 29-year-old Matthew Aguilar, was on campus. No one else was injured. Aguilar was arrested on suspicion of taking a weapon onto school grounds and resisting arrest, and was booked into the county jail in Indio.

    • #191 by Elaine on September 12, 2011

      Xer, I wish this deputy could be cloned and sent out to every police department everywhere as a police chief and police instructor.

  71. #192 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 10, 2011

    About the supposed “foot dragging” by the OC DA and OC Sheriff/Coroner….

    Remember that Costa Mesa city employee who committed suicide earlier this year on the day he was scheduled to receive a lay-off notice? Huy Pham jumped from the roof of the Costa Mesa City Hall building on March 17th. The results of his autopsy and toxicology reports were released to the public at the end of May, nearly ten full weeks after his death. Kelly Thomas has been dead for about nine weeks.

    Of note is that, despite taking so long, the toxicology report turned out to be favorable to government officials, who at the time of Pham’s death were widely criticised for being at least somewhat responsible for his suicide, for the way he and others were being laid-off by the city. Turns out Pham was a cokehead who had a significant amount of the drug in his system when he jumped.

    On another note, as much as anyone here, I want to see the FPD officers responsible for the murder of Kelly Thomas brought to justice, but I also want to see a solid case made and with all of the evidence having been properly gathered so that they can be charged and prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. I believe the OC DA is doing the right thing in waiting for the Forensic Pathologists to complete and submit their report.

  72. #193 by devin on September 10, 2011

    The woman in the video Renee) is someone I lived in the same apartment building with. She was always helping people with their pets. One woman who was dying wanted her to take her dog when she died, and Renee kept her promise and took the dog. The landlords made her get rid of the dog because it was part pit bull, she was heartbroken and had no where else to live at the time. She found a good home for it and was always helping to find homes for animals whose owners left them in the building or died. She’s not one to self promote. She sure seems in shock, as any of us would be. I think that when we find out what cowardly acts the Fullerton 6 commited after the death, the cover up and most likely the hiding of evidence such as the hair they pulled out of Kellys head, we will be mortified.

  73. #194 by nomad on September 11, 2011

    “devin” what do you mean “the hair they pulled out of Kellys head? can you elaborate?

  74. #195 by Jt on September 11, 2011

    george :my friend was shocked by the actions of the fullerton cop , illk get the name , do u know where i can get the roster of all of the fullerton officers?

    I’ve been looking for that info as well. Unfortunately I can’t find it. Probably they don’t make that info easily available. Your friend could get a copy of the police report though, that would have the officers’ names on it.

    • #196 by george on September 12, 2011

      hey jt i read the name and the name of the watch sargent who he spoke to. ill get his ok to publish the name . like i wrote my friend is a harvard law school graduate , and waht he saw an officer do caused him , w/o him knowing to put his life in danger by telling the officer that he was completely out of control . he is key in that he knows the bounds of constitutional liberties and what he witness went far beyond what he learn and what we all instinctively know ,

  75. #197 by SAVE the Fullerton Cops on September 12, 2011

    Disgusted :Spoken like a genuine Fullerton PIG!!! Now I believe that you are the real deal. A prime example of what is wrong with FPD and what kind of shit will need to be weeded out before the FPD will ever have credibility in the community again. I wish you had the balls to identify yourself. But like your fellow pigs and your chickenshit chief, you are a COWARD!
    A COWARD! A COWARD! A COWARD! A COWARD! A COWARD! A COWARD! A COWARD! A COWARD!

    OMG…I am not a cop, not married to one or related to one. I also do not work for the PD.

    Like I said, if you don’t like OC MOVE.

  76. #198 by Allie on September 12, 2011

    As a Fullerton resident I am just so sad about this. It’s funny because we were at First Night in Fullerton last year and the cops looked like they were going to war. Full military gear, big guns and weapons….. It scared my six year old son. Last week we were in Vegas and the cops smiled at you and shook my sons hand. What a contrast. I have to admit that while I have always had a lot of respect for the police I think we need some new leadership here in Fullerton.

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