A Serious Letter


We are in receipt of this letter to DA Tony Rackauckas which calls into question the actions preceding the beating of Kelly Thomas. Mr. Doherty hits the proverbial nail on the head and drives it though the board. Was the call to FPD about some guy burglarizing cars phony? Was it an orchestrated attempt to rid the Transportation Center of a nuisance to a business? If the DA and the FBI don’t find out who made that call and under what circumstances, you may rest assured Friends, we will. And thanks Mr. Doherty for your concern and citizenship.

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  1. #1 by Anonymous on August 5, 2011

    Is 911 calls public records? how can we get one? cause your on right on the button with this tony!!! get that call record…the truth will come out.

    • #2 by Xer on August 6, 2011

      By the way, Charles Doherty. You, sir, are an exemplary American Citizen. The Founding Fathers would be proud of you for boldly standing up to tyranny.

      Also, very well thought out questions and clearly written. Bravo!

    • #3 by Anonymous on August 6, 2011

      You all call this a beating. You all forgot he fought with officers to resist arrest. It’s horrible he died but perhaps if wasn’t breaking into vehicles, he’d still be alive. His preexisting medical condition contributed to his death. Per the DA’s office, the officers should be exonerated.

      • #4 by Anonymous on August 8, 2011

        So you have proof that he was breaking into vehicles? Can you produce it for us to see?

      • #5 by Anonymous on October 15, 2011

        I AGREE ON THIS FOR SURE

    • #6 by H8 BAR SLIDE on August 6, 2011

      just wondering out loud…has anyone, ANY bar owner, employees, etc. from any businesses adjacent to the killing come out publicly in outrage at what has transpired.? I haven’t heard….their silence speaks volumes.boycott time!!!!

    • #7 by Nokomarie on August 7, 2011

      Yep, town records are viewable by the public.

  2. #8 by LAMusing on August 5, 2011

    YES!! Important questions!

  3. #9 by Slip N' Slide on August 5, 2011

    Right on. I can see it now. Hey Jeremy, ya wanna get rid of that bum jus’ have yer girl call up ‘n say there’s a shirtless bum bustin’ in ta cars. We’ll take of the rest!

    Don;t ferget them sandwiches n’ beer later n’ tha shift!

    • #10 by H8 BAR SLIDE on August 6, 2011

      If any of this rings true about these establishments, which won’t surprise Mr in the lest, its BOYCOTT time. Fuck this political BS. I venture to guess MAYOR F. DICK JOB and is
      cronies stuff their fat 8 lb balls at these “establishments” gratis. After all, he has to save his cash for those stylish haircuts and fancy leisure suits he parades around in.HEY MAYOR SET BALLS, THE JIG IS UP!!!! LEAVE TOWN, FUCKING DICK.

      • #11 by H8 BAR SLIDE on August 6, 2011

        I meant MAYOR WET BALLS

    • #12 by H8 BAR SLIDE on August 6, 2011

      If any of this rings true about these establishments, which won’t surpris me in the least, its BOYCOTT time. Fuck this political BS. I venture to guess MAYOR F. DICK JOB and his
      cronies stuff their fat 8 lb balls at these “establishments” gratis. After all, he has to save his cash for those stylish haircuts and fancy leisure suits he parades around in.HEY MAYOR SET BALLS, THE JIG IS UP!!!! LEAVE TOWN, FUCKING DICK.

  4. #13 by runningair on August 5, 2011

    The incident did not take place in the “Metrolink” parking lot. It wasn’t even at the train station. The entire event unfolded at the OCTA bus terminal across the street. There were NOT six officers there the entire time. The last two police cruisers got there well after the incident began, and just before the fire department arrived from station 1.

    • #14 by Slip N' Slide on August 5, 2011

      “The last two police cruisers got there well after the incident began”

      But not before it ended. Please note: they all have the same lawyer.

      • #15 by runningair on August 5, 2011

        Correct.

        Regarding your lawyer comment, I have no idea what you’re insinuating, but I’m not a police officer.

        • #16 by Citizen on August 5, 2011

          Slip N’ Slide seems to be implying that they wouldn’t all have the same lawyer if they didn’t all do something wrong. I realize, however, that it’s too hard to make calls about the specifics just yet.

          How do you know about when the last officers arrived and which station responded to the medical emergency? I’m guessing you’re an EMT?

          • #17 by runningair on August 6, 2011

            I was there when it happened. I’m not a public servant.

          • #18 by Marsha on August 6, 2011

            If I was one of the last cops on the scene and not involved in the beating, you could bet your bottom dollar that I would have a different attorney than the others. You watch, as more come out, they will split off.

          • #19 by Citizen on August 6, 2011

            @runningair Have they interviewed you?

    • #20 by LeRoy Murray on August 5, 2011

      Your point being?

    • #21 by Peckerwood Pete on August 6, 2011

      So the guy got the location wrong, how does that diminish his questions? Maybe to him the Metrolink and OCTA station is the same thing. NOTHING can diminish the fact that Kelly Thomas was BEATEN to DEATH!

    • #22 by Nokomarie on August 7, 2011

      That matches the account I heard.

  5. #23 by Messiahcomes on August 5, 2011

    This really is something to consider. Good questions to ask. I do NOT believe all police are corrupt and I value the challenging work the good police officers do. But I admit that, unfortunately, the thought did occur to me that maybe someone wanted (and maybe even paid to have) Kelly removed. I then thought I was wrong and was the only one who would have thought this, until now.
    Sad. Really, really sad.

    • #24 by Slip N' Slide on August 5, 2011

      The worst part is the price may have been a few burgers and beers.

      • #25 by Xer on August 6, 2011

        “The worst part is the price may have been a few burgers and beers.”

        Pretty cheap assassination! They couldn’t have gotten any ‘other gang’ in SoCal to have done it that cheap. Sounds like FPD is seriously undercutting the competition. Gee, aren’t the police supposed to protect citizens from people like them? Even homeless citizens? Just call me Pollyanna.

      • #26 by OldBrowser on August 6, 2011

        You are just stirring the pot. You have no indication that they were doing anything other than what is reported. Ignorant speculation just fuels the misunderstanding of a serious issue.

    • #27 by Nokomarie on August 7, 2011

      .Why speculate in that silly manner? Even the people standing by could only see so much. Only they, the cops involved truly know what was going on and even maybe not some of them.

      What we do know was that a previously fairly innocuous homeless man was beaten to death in public. Also that the beating went on in over an extended period, maybe as long as ten minutes.

      I hope you were joking when you claimed this was some sort of a take down; I would dock my gang of thugs pay for a sloppy, public take down like that.

  6. #28 by Douglas Shrock on August 5, 2011

    These men murdered Kelly Thomas

    Officer Jay Cicinelli was there
    Officer Kenton Hampton was there
    Officer Manny Ramos was there
    Officer Joe Wolfe was there
    Officer James Blatney was there

    If you ever witness something like this, stop it. Make a move and physically stop it. At some point during this incident they became unfit for duty. Now they are murderers. It is then your duty to stop them.

    • #29 by Xer on August 6, 2011

      Doug: Some of the witnesses DID try to stop the horrific beating and were threatened themselves, by the same police involved in the ongoing murder. Armed angry cops can be pretty darn intimidating. So, what would you have done in their place, with neither body armor or a fullyloaded automatic weapon? Personally, I’d have preferred a tank in that situation with multiple externally mounted high gain tasers, but, that’s just me. Maybe you could have subdued 6 rampaging bloodlust crazed apes with bluff and bravado? Or, you could have just been their next victim…

    • #30 by Anonymous citizen on August 6, 2011

      I could see bystanders having the courage to confront these murderous cops, and risking their lives. The problem which no one seems to address is the DA’s office and the courts, who irrespective of the evidence, always take the side of the cops, meaning you would end up a felon and in state prison, assuming they don;t kill you in jail first.

      Just think how many of us have been in traffic court, and no matter what the evidence, the cop is always right and you are always found guilty (unless the cop doesn’t show up).

    • #31 by Anonymous on August 6, 2011

      I’m not going to risk spending 3-5 years in prison + an additional 3-5 on probation for “assaulting a cop”.

      …This is the sad but true reality of taking on a pig.

  7. #32 by Kevin on August 5, 2011

    Some pretty girl should take cookies over to the fire station and talk them up. First, though, figure out which of the three shifts was on that night. Bet they’re tight lipped, but who knows if you made friends first?

  8. #33 by Kevin on August 5, 2011

    …and there’s always the ambulance company and hospital staff. Ambulance drivers are pretty low pay. They often park in supermarket lots waiting for calls, and of course they sit at the hospital after calls for a while. Talk ‘em up if you see them. A sweet talker might get a name of the crew that transported and might get some inside info.

    • #34 by runningair on August 5, 2011

      Fullerton Ambulance 1 is based at Fire Station 1. They usually follow Engine 1 or Truck 1 to medical aid calls. You won’t find them taking naps in supermarket parking lots.

      • #35 by Kevin on August 5, 2011

        Excellent. Get on it!

  9. #36 by Mark on August 5, 2011

    Nice job Charles

    It seems from top to bottom all public officials who are running this circus are really clueless The FPD, The Mayor, The council, The Chief, The DA, The City Manager, The City Attorney I am shocked at the incompetence or the cover-up. All these clowns are on the public’s dime and have nothing to share, nothing to update, this is day #32 since beating / murder.

  10. #37 by Greg Sebourn on August 5, 2011

    Who called the paramedics out? was it an officer and, if so, which one?

    • #38 by runningair on August 5, 2011

      I’m sure it was the police.

    • #39 by Nokomarie on August 7, 2011

      I’m sure it was a bystander.

  11. #40 by John on August 5, 2011

    Right on Charles Doherty–someone finally questions the totality of the circumstances. Illinois v. Gates to see if police even had reasonable suspicion and probable cause to detain Kelly Thomas. All we supposedly have is a call to investigate allegeded stollen property and an eyewitness saying ” the homeless guy was just chillin” to the bus driver. These two claims a very far apart. They don’t add up. I do think there is a very high probability Mr. Kelly Thomas was escorted to the city limits with threats more than once by the FPD and finally they followed through. Was or wasn’t there sufficient reasonable suspicion to even detain Kelly Thomas with the totality of the circumstances. His running away just the fear of prior threats and possible beatings only his homeless friends could verify.

    • #41 by Xer on August 6, 2011

      “His running away just the fear of prior threats and possible beatings only his homeless friends could verify.”

      John, the likelihood of that seems almost a certainty. In that circumstance, even completely sane people would run. What chance a weak paranoid schizophrenic could stand up under pressure of such threat of imminent physical violence. The more I learn of this the more nausea I feel, and the heavier my heart. This poor kid was doomed, and he sensed it clearly. And, anybody wants to point out thirty year olds aren’t kids, to those of us in our sixties, they sure are. He wasn’t much older than my grandkids. And, by many accounts of people who had met him once or more he was extraordinarily mild mannered, even polite. So, stick it in your ear, ‘hero.’

  12. #42 by History repeats... on August 5, 2011

    Dont want to distract from Kelly Thomas but I was shocked at the parallels between the Kelly Thomas incident and this story out of New Orleans… five officers busted for killing innocent people… read for yourselves…

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3RgywWqYVicLtnFno-dehYmqiEw?docId=98868417f0f747cfb0516322db0b5cf3

    • #43 by Anonymous on August 5, 2011

      …They got away with murder. Why am I not suprised

      • #44 by ash on August 6, 2011

        No. They were convicted.

  13. #45 by Jim bob on August 5, 2011

    Brilliant

  14. #46 by Anonymous on August 5, 2011

    It feels like a strange nightmare with a numb feeling about the letter.

    Making calls just a ruse for the Fullerton PD Cops to dispatch the Fullerton Transportation Center? Remember, Mayor HeeHaw made it his main mission to “rid of the homeless in our town.”

    Also, it seems as if the cops have too much free time on their hands.

    Dont know what to say anymore, but a sad sinking feeling that some wants to degrade the homeless sick people if they dont belong to the human race.

  15. #47 by RonPaul2012 on August 5, 2011

    We have an foreign Bank ran Govt. that hires Iraqi Veterans with PTSD and rampant steroid use to fill our new Nazi Police Force that are set in place (like the TSA) to condition the American Public to fear the Govt. The New Police get revenue for the State and protect eachother. This isn’t our Govt. nor our Police Force. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 ~

    • #48 by Anonymous on August 5, 2011

      Okay, who let the Alex Jones guy in here?

  16. #49 by Jay-B on August 5, 2011

    It is common knowledge Slide Bar/Continental are close friends with the FPD. Sean’s dad is/was FPD middle/top brass. he and jeremy have the FPD in their cocaine filled pockets, why don’t they have to pay for parking in the red zone in front of their “businesses”, and other restaurants? Research their parking ticket records (they are tossed out, btw), and why are they allowed to drive home after I/and police watch them drinking all night? Bottom line, there are always police outside of these establishments talking with the drink in-hand owners. Game Over!

    • #50 by CH123 on August 5, 2011

      I don’t know about all of the claims above, but I do know that Sean Francis was one of the first on Facebook trying to find out who did this. Can’t be too bad of a guy.

      • #51 by CH123 on August 5, 2011

        Unless it’s just a different guy with the same name, that is.

      • #52 by TerrN on August 6, 2011

        He is NOT a good guy.

    • #53 by fullerton local on August 6, 2011

      Sean’s dad was never with Fullerton Pd he was with out in Walnut if I remember right. Also Sean hasn’t been part of those bars in over a year and a half and was basically run out of town by FPD.

    • #54 by fullerton local on August 6, 2011

      ps Talk to Kevin who is a paranoid scitzophrinic former homeless man who Sean and his father have housed, paid to medicate and employed for close to 20 years. I actually met Kelly 5-6 years ago due to Sean. He also many times gave Kelly, Earnie, Steve, and countless others food for free when Slidebar opened, and even before when he owned the coffee shop. Living in downtown many times I talked to and also bought Kelly food and drinks. This whole thing breaks my heart as someone who actually took the time to build a relationship with Kelly and many other less fortunate citizens in Fullerton. I’m blessed to have a good job, own a house in this city, and do what I can to help others in need. Whatever underlying anger you have is distracting from the real issue. Fullerton PD is to blame for this. It disgusts me that you take away from the real issue for some personal cause.

  17. #55 by smbrumley on August 5, 2011

    I just started following this yesterday as I live on the east coast. I absolutely admire each and every resident that is fighting for justice! Kelly Thomas deserved nothing life handed him and he certianly did not deserve death! These officers along with the government officials that are doing their best to cover up this crime, should be indicted on federal charges! My prayers are with the Thomas family and the residents of Fullerton…may each of you find peace by knowing you are giving your best fight!

    • #56 by Fullerton Native on August 5, 2011

      That was very kind of you SMBRUMLEY. The best that you can do to help us in our fight for justice and for Kelly Thomas is help spread the word. Knowledge is power. Tonight marked the one-month anniversary of his inhumane murder, and you just heard of it yesterday. More people need to know that has been done and the way Kelly Thomas was murdered, has to end. Again, thank you for your support.

      • #57 by Enough on August 6, 2011

        Amen, Fullerton Native.

        Smbrumley – I don’t live in Fullerton so I can’t speak for them, but I find your kind words inspiring… “may each of you find peace by knowing you are giving your best fight!”

        Please spread the word.

    • #58 by Citizen on August 6, 2011

      I agree with Fullerton Native. Spreading the story is the best thing to do. I can’t believe how many people even here in Orange County still aren’t aware of this story. The worst thing for ourselves, this Police Department, and all the people and Police Departments across the nation would be to let our cry for justice fade out. We can’t let this go.

      • #59 by Xer on August 6, 2011

        Guys, I keep writing to CNN. I will keep writing. And, Citizen, you are right, they are trying to out wait you all and let it ‘blow over.’ Keep up the good fight. More people need to be calling national news agencies asking why there is no coverage of one incident symptomatic of a national rash, and writing governors, Congress Critters, and President Obama. Janet Reno went after Bill Gates, and Gates was a billionaire. Doesn’t Obama have a pitbull he could release on FPD? And, what about Congress appointing a Special Prosecutor to open a RICCO investigation in Fullerton? One guy writing alone won’t get it done. Large numbers might get the ball rolling though. How about some backup folks? Writing here and reading here is fun, I do it too, but it won’t bring about the justice you claim to crave.

  18. #60 by Anonymous on August 5, 2011

    Yes they are criminals ((((the fullerton police))))

  19. #61 by Paul on August 5, 2011

    What I don’t understand is Mr. Thomas was a deputy himself and I bet there have been times he has had to fight a suspect, he knows first hand what its like out in the field. Why create chaos and not allow the case to be tried in the legal system and not in the public’s forum. I am sorry for your loss, but not everyone knows how a call will end when officers respond. you were not there so don’t criticize the Police because at the end of the day, One day you will need them one day.

    • #62 by smbrumley on August 5, 2011

      HIS SON WAS FREAKING MURDERED YOU IGNORANT BAFFOON! HE’S TRYING TO OBTAIN JUSTICE FOR HIS SON! KELLY THOMAS DESERVES F*CKING JUSTICE!

    • #63 by OneeyedNut on August 5, 2011

      He was a deputy for 5 months. He got fired. He’s a cop hater. He tossed his drug addict son to the streets and now he wants millions. Dad is a loser just like son.

      • #64 by Anonymous on August 5, 2011

        Post proof of this OneeyedNut

      • #65 by alou on August 5, 2011

        His father and grandfather were LE. Grandfather was career lapd. If, I say if, Mr. Thomas was in fact fired, it was for something far less than bludgeonong someone….to death. And hell yeah he’s not liking cops much right now. But yeah, he should just accept his son was murdered and play cool about this one.

      • #66 by LC on August 6, 2011

        He is a retired OC Deputy. Unless he got hired at age 60 and retired 5 month later, i’d say he served a full career.

        • #67 by calwatch on August 7, 2011

          Steve Lopez in the LA Times said he served six years in OCSO, but he is collecting a pension since you are vested in five, and thus retired. He then went into the construction business.

      • #68 by LeRoy Murray on August 6, 2011

        Sounds like you’re a NON-cop hater.
        I constantly find it amazing that to so many of you cops, anyone who disagrees with you is a cop hater or has committed disrespect of cop and deserve a beatdown resulting in death, or worse if that were possible. If someone disagrees with me I say oh well, if they disagree with evil cops like you, they’re beaten to death.

      • #69 by fullerton citizen on August 6, 2011

        @ # 37 please keep updated before you open up your pie hole 1.was fired so what maybe he would not Honor your fucked up code of silence and they concocted a way to oust him.2.your stupidity does not surprise anyone the family tried to get him into a system that would help him but he would not stay he did not want help.People with his kind of condition have a disorder that shuts down the brains normal thinking he actually thought he was OK he was not sick in his mind.3.Kellys dad Declined the HUSH MONEY that was offered to him it is public record are you really this Fuckn retarded The irony of the this murder by cop is officer Hampton had a ball smacking the cell phones that were used to record him and his Goon Squad beating on helpless citizens at police stops.Who would of thought the city’s own eye in the sky has busted not 1 but all 6 of the maggot bottom feeders of the Fullerton PD it must feel real good they are now world famous murderers! let’s face it dumb ass if the city’s video put these 6 maggot in a good light it would have been exposed by now.By the way one of the low life cops confiscated a video from a citizen that captured everything were the fuck is it?you are all dirty swines and finally going sinking faster then the titanic along with it your swine dirty captain!

        • #70 by Annonymous on September 28, 2011

          To Fullerton Citizen; How concerned are you that you can’t debate without using the fowl language. You are certaining an uneducated person so do not put me in your Fullerton group. Memo to all how want to voice their opinions which is great: Do not degrate or show your ignorance by using fowl language.

    • #71 by LeRoy Murray on August 6, 2011

      Look at his son’s picture and listen to the witnesses on the OCTD video, then ask your question again, if you have to.

    • #72 by Xer on August 6, 2011

      Paul, how many days has it been? What exactly has been accomplished in the investigation? Until there was a public outcry started at FFFF The City did NOTHING. Is that what you wish to return to, this being swept under the rug? Mr. Thomas was a County officer for many years, and I am sure always felt a kinship with his fellow officers, even the FPD, but Kelly was his flesh and blood little boy, and the FPD callously beat him to a bloody brutal death. What happened to Kelly was no “fight.” It was six on one bloody murder! Can you really expect Mr. Thomas to want to forget his own son and just come have a brewsky with you? Think about it, if you can.

      What I don’t understand, is why don’t you ‘get it?’ Forgotten how to have human emotions completely?

      As for your implied threat To Mr. Thomas at the end. There’s a public record of it now. Way to go, ‘hero.’ You guys are building your own scaffold. Please don’t stop posting here! Frankly, I love watching your slow suicide!

    • #73 by Enough on August 6, 2011

      Paul – Have you seen the picture of Kelly Thomas’s face after those SIX Fullerton Police Officers took him on? Have you seen how tiny he was? Look at the picture of his face. I can’t imagine how you could ask that question if you’d seen it. (By the way, some of my best friends are cops. It’s one of the reasons I’m so enraged by this story).

  20. #74 by Fullerton on August 5, 2011

    Orange County District Attorney Office, Fullerton Police Dept. Mayor, City Manager, Councils and its cronies are snakes guarding the hen house. Never trust them with powerful Police Union behind.
    Time to escalate and we wrote letter.
    U.S. President. White House: http://www.whitehouse.gov/
    U.S Dept. of Justice: http://www.justice.gov/
    CA Governor Ed Brown: http://gov.ca.gov/

    • #75 by LeRoy Murray on August 6, 2011

      I think it’s time to look into removing or reducing the power of the police union. If that’s possible

  21. #76 by John on August 5, 2011

    Yes Mr. Thomas knows all too well that:
    A) The DA in Orange County protects cops to the 9th degree
    B) That only by sufficient pressure the government will move toward completion
    C) That some one who looked like Kelly did in the hospital and his screams on the video was not that of the proper use of force.
    D) That police dept.s are masters in the art of coverups

  22. #78 by TheFullertonWatcher on August 5, 2011

    Thank you Charles.

  23. #79 by fullerton lover on August 5, 2011

    Great letter however everyone here knows that this case was DOA the minute it hit the DA’s office. They’ll wait to release the video because the powers that be think that there will be a riot here in town, as evidenced by the added security that was in put in place downtown before last Saturday’s protest before the morons realized that it was mothers and fathers and small children with homemade signs that were protesting in front of city hall, instead of the unruly pitch fork wielding torch carrying mobs that the Mayor purports us to be to a nationwide TV audience on NBC.

    • #80 by Anonymous on August 5, 2011

      As another poster pointed out, they’re holding the video to see if other copies will leak. If not they’re probably just destroy it or alter it if they havent already.

      • #81 by Johnny Blue on August 6, 2011

        If I were the FBI I would make those who saw the video that night, question or testify in court to see if the video has been tampered with since.

    • #82 by Mark on August 6, 2011

      disagree the DA works for us and we will not let this one slide…the perfect storm for some heads to roll

  24. #83 by Steve Brow on August 5, 2011

    Charles, good angle. I am ashamed to state that although a few clues have been given, I had not imagined this side of the story.

    To the comments above, I do not think that Tony Rack is clueless. I think that he takes all opportunities to support the status quo and to not to charge police officers.

    Do not think that this incident does not have the power to end the careers of T-Rack, Susan Schroeder, and even her husband, Michael Shrooeder. All “friends” of John and Ken, as is the owner of the Slidebar Cafe.

    John and Ken have experienced being muzzled by KABC. Clearchannel gives them free reign to be who they want to be. They are not subject to being bought off by any “friend”.

  25. #84 by Kim on August 5, 2011

    Charles makes a good point. Why hasn’t anyone come forward to say their car was broken into that evening down there or at least looked like someone tried to break into it?
    On a second note-you running in the recall election Tony?

  26. #85 by Nah man on August 5, 2011

    I think it was more of a random search than anything. This happens all the time to the homeless- usually looking for drugs or anything else that can take them off the streets and behind bars. On the right track though!

  27. #86 by Nah man nah on August 5, 2011

    Also you don’t need a reason to cite/take into custody a homeless person in Fullerton- unlawful camping, trespassing, vagrancy, disturbing the peace, obstructing business and other laws designed to kick out the homeless usually do the trick.

    • #87 by Kim on August 5, 2011

      I’d think so too.

  28. #88 by Kim on August 5, 2011

    One more note of randomness…. Yes, they do take your name when you call the Fullerton PD and there is a record, but they don’t speak to the complainant when they get out there to handle the situation. I had a situation where I had to call the Fullerton PD for something twice and the dispatcher was surprised that I had to call for it more than once (happened 2 times in a row) when she looked at the record that came up on her computer screen. Did the Fullerton PD speak to me though before they handled it? No.

  29. #89 by John on August 5, 2011

    Except perhaps in a transportation center

  30. #90 by Jim bob on August 5, 2011

    I loved living in Fullas. Knew it was fucked up in a Good Old Boy Crypto Facist kind of way. Buy my god… The Slide Bar is the single biggest problem violence wise in the Downtown Area. The city closed Club 369 back in the day. Not sure what The Slide Bar scum fucks do to keep the pigs at bay.

    • #91 by LeRoy Murray on August 6, 2011

      Maybe some cops are silent partners???

  31. #92 by Anonymous on August 5, 2011

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhX62V23rco

    This guy must be a real sweetie to the homeless.

  32. #93 by Other Questions on August 6, 2011

    Other pertinent questions… not sure if these came up yet. Forgive for being ignorant.

    1. POLICE REPORTS: When are those police reports going to be avaliable? Are they done yet (because I heard they had to be rewritten for some odd reason)? Have they been submitted to the district attorney yet?

    3. A BACKPACK with “stolen items” in it. Possibly…the guy was mentally ill, he could have stole some stuff, but I think most homeless people carry “stuff” around with them that could inevitibly be “manipulated” in the police report to fit the description of an assortment of stolen items. IE I have a walkman and some guy reported a stolen walkman five weeks ago accross town, but someone gave me mine and I dont have a recipt for it, but some guy in LA stole the walkman, just an example. I guess THE 9-1-1 CALL will tell us that.

    3. He probably just ran because he didnt want to be locked up. Does that deserve a 16th century flogging, leading to his death?

    4. MEDIA COVERAGE: A lot of the major articles are skewing the story (and not showing the picture of Thomas’ face) toward the slant that it was a “fight” or “struggle.” However, every person Ive heard on the bus video as well as the people in the main youtube video said that he was just laying there and they were still either tasing him or beating him or kicking him… let alone the picture. There was a recent case tried just this week in new Orleans about cops shooting homeless, mentally ill people. Google it.

    5. HOW FAR DID HE RUN? From the video of the bus, right when it is pulling up it looked like it all happened right at the bus stop. But some witness said that he was SITTING at the bus stop. How far did he run? Because from what it looks like he was beat to death right at the bus bench or within a 15 ft radius.

    6. IS THERE A GOOD SAMARITIN LAW FOR COPS? So the good ones can come forward without fear of losing benefits for their families, themselves, their pensions, etc.? I find it hard to believe that every cop in that department is keeping his/her mouth shut. Prob arent coming forward for fear of what they will lose. Even though any cop that did this would be a hero to his country. This isnt Mexico for god sakes… if your good, were not going to persecute you.

  33. #94 by LongTImeFullertonGirl on August 6, 2011

    Great letter from Charles above. Questions that desperately need answering. Has this letter been sent to the President, Governor and the US Department of Justice? If not, we may never hear the answers we need.

    • #95 by Xer on August 6, 2011

      Has this letter been sent to the President, Governor and the US Department of Justice? If not, we may never hear the answers we need.

      That’s a really good point, LTFG

      Please, keep trying to get people to contact those who are in positions of power to put pressure on City Of Fullerton. The only way to achieve success in letter writing/E-mailing/calling public officials is through NUMBERS! They totally ignore just a single letter/call. People have got to write, even if it is just to ask the same questions Charles Doherty did. The NUMBER of letters is what counts, folks. You can spread ‘the word’ from here to the moon, but if you don’t get people making ‘noise’ in the right places you will accomplish NOTHING. Write. Tell your loved ones to write. Tell your family to write, no matter where they live. Tell your friends to write! Get it done. If you don’t this is all for nothing!

  34. #96 by Reminder to Admin on August 6, 2011

    Tag as “Kelly Thomas” because thats what people accross the nation are googleing. Also, “police brutality”, if possible.

  35. #97 by ramjam on August 6, 2011

    If you guys really want to solve the problem get Tony Rackauckas out of his position as your DA…these cops know they can do what they want and this guy t-rack will do everything in his power to cover their tracks and get charges dropped against anyone in blue….cut the head of the snake i say and the rest will die. This is why the FBI is stepping in …they know he will try and help is fellow boys in blue.

  36. #98 by ramjam on August 6, 2011

    his fellow boys in blue *

  37. #99 by ramjam on August 6, 2011

    Next get rid of boss hog and Roscoe…but really the people of fullerton need the entire FPD dismantled and contract the orange county sheriffs to take over law enforcment until a new unit can be assembled..but if not sending the 6 to prison and firing Mike Sellers will send a strong message to the other officers employed by FPD, dont fk with the people or the will fight back and fk your entire career up.

  38. #100 by ramjam on August 6, 2011

    they will fight back* …correction on the end of last sentence/last comment

  39. #101 by Cely on August 6, 2011

    Thank you for putting into words what I’ve been thinking for weeks! I applaud your efforts and hope we get an answer to all the questions. In my opinion it was all a lie, a sick and disturbing attack on Kelly. If they dig deep enough I’m sure it will be traced to the local bar owner or owners. The inhumane atrocities of these police officers will not go unpunished.

  40. #102 by Finally, a good media outlet on August 6, 2011

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JmOmkeizII

    A somewhat more accurate report. Always thought RT was BS, will watch more.

    RIP KT

  41. #103 by CONTACT CONGRESSMAN ROYCE on August 6, 2011

    What’s his stance on this matter?

    If you live in the 40th district and would like to send a message to Ed Royce, your Congressman, click here:

    https://royce.house.gov/Contact/ZipCheck.htm

  42. #104 by Sands on August 6, 2011

    Thank you Mr Doherty.

  43. #105 by business owner on August 6, 2011

    I am a medium to large business owner and I am very pro law enforcement but I just watched the you tube videos and I am mortified. This is much worse than Rodney King was beaten and I am just hearing about this today. (before anyone gets all worked up I am African American). I do not care what the situation was this is just extremely wrong. The city of Fullerton will pay for this in the for of lacking tax revenue. I spent 12 million last year with my main supplier which is a fullerton based company. I just went through the books and I have already spent 10.1 this year. I just emailed the owner of that supplier telling him that I know he has major pull with the city and I will not spend another penny with his company or any other business in Fullerton until charges of murder are placed on these officers. I will also be encouraging all of my personal business competition to do the same.

    • #106 by Kevin on August 6, 2011

      Sounds great…. and fishy. If you put your name and company on your comment I’d actually be inclined to believe it.

  44. #107 by fullerton citizen on August 6, 2011

    Police convictions in Katrina shootings, cover-up

    Five current or former police officers were convicted Friday of federal civil rights charges related to deadly shootings.

    Fullertons Dirty 6

    Officer Jay Cicinelli
    Officer Kenton Hampton
    Officer Manny Ramos
    Officer Joe Wolfe
    Officer James Blatney

    meet you cell mates

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3RgywWqYVicLtnFno-dehYmqiEw?docId=98868417f0f747cfb0516322db0b5cf3

  45. #108 by mr. boo on August 6, 2011

    I work at a downtown bar. Last mouth some aggressive, stupid, mouthy drunk was kicked out of our bar for being unruly and just an ass-hole. He stood outside the bar for about 20 minutes just yelling and being antognistic and then punched some person in the face exiting another bar. Security personnel from three bars intervened and restrained the idiot by physically sitting on him. 911 was called and, about five minutes later, cops cars started showing up. Three FPD officers rolled up and attempted to handcuff the prostrate man. He struggled against them but, eventually, the three officers were able to cuff him. They then told him “we’re going to pick you up, now.” Which they did. He then said said something to the effect of “just don’t taser and kill me like you did that homeless guy, you niggers.” They simply walked him to thenearest car and put him in. I bring this up only to say that the police officers who reported to this scene did their jobs and did them well. And if anybody deserves to be beat the shit out of behind closed doors, it’s this ass-hole. Well, not really. But, in light of all that’s been said and speculated about, it really made me think. I’m not for a moment even trying to exonerate any police actions that are excessive or criminal. And, yes, this situation happened in the midst of intense scrutiny on the police department, so maybe the officers were more restrained than usual. All I know for sure is that I saw cops show up at a scene with a violent, unruly subject and they put him in custody without resorting to exessive fore and there was no doubt they handled it with professionalism. What’s it all mean? I really don’t know. But in our collective anger and contempt at the Kelly Thomas beating–and the city of Fullerton’s establishment’s pathetic attempts at dealing with it–that to brandish every cop as dirty and violent and out-of-control is not a resonable decision to take. With that said, I kind of hope the cops beat the shit out of the aforementioned moron. Maybe that’s what he needs to wake the fuck up and not be such as ass-hole.

    • #109 by Mark on August 6, 2011

      Hey Boo shut your mouth you cop lover WTF you are calling for the FPD to beat up more people you sick bastard I hope you get pulled over for a burnt taillight and get tasered 6 times maybe that will change your thinking that all these cops are dirty, this a system / personal problem @ FPD that needs some house cleaning from top to bottom. Because their leader / chief is hiding in the broom closet w/ his little blanket and will not OUT or speak to the public and name ALL officers ( for lack of better term) then ALL these cops are dirty and guilty by association. This not rocket science that is how they treat us. If I get pulled over with 5 other friends in the car and there is sack of weed in the car and nobody cops to it, then all go to jail. This is standard operations

    • #110 by Joe Blow on August 6, 2011

      Of course the cops aren’t going to beat that guy or use excessive force less than a month after the incident with Kelly Thomas. I’m sure all FPD is being very careful right now. The public is watching. And lets hope the public is a little more rational than you. Nice job condoning police abuse & violence. You’re so much better than the drunk at the bar. Riiiiiiiiight.

    • #111 by nyc on August 6, 2011

      It’s actually pretty pathetic that you’re praising the FPD for doing their jobs properly and not beating someone up.

    • #112 by Nokomarie on August 7, 2011

      Good for you for speaking up. Not everybody is a murderous jerk. In fact, I go back to my first question: six police, for no reason in public? Obviously there was murder done but…it just doesn’t add up.

    • #113 by hpver on August 8, 2011

      Kinda sad when what should be the norm of police just doing their jobs professionally is singled out as somehow exceptionally praiseworthy, and that it only takes place after they know they are being scrutinized because they or their colleagues murdered an unarmed homeless schizophrenic then tried to cover it up.

    • #114 by dixiejon on August 26, 2011

      oh yeah they will be the nicest pigs you ever met for awhile.if they can get this to die down the payback will start. its the piggy way

  46. #115 by mr. boo on August 6, 2011

    I said last mouth in the above post. I meant last NIGHT!!!

  47. #116 by GET THEM KOONS on August 6, 2011

    SEND THAT KOON,JUNGLE BUNNY, JIGGABOO,SLAVE MONKEY NIGGER KENTON HAMPTON TO PRISON! HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED THAT NIGHT FOR 245P.C AND THEN ARRESTED FOR 2ND DEGREE MURDER… THAT FUCKING NIGGER IS NOTHING BUT A SLAVE MONKEY THAT COULDNT GET HIRED WITH A REAL DEPARTMENT SO FULLERTON HIRED ASHEE BLACK ASS BECAUSE OF AFFIRMATIVE BLACKTION. F.P.D STANDS FOR FUCKEN PIG DECEIVER… I SMELL COVER-UP DUE TO THAT FAT FUCK SGT.GOODRICH NOT SAYING A THING TO THE MEDIA… HEY FAT ASS GOODRICH GET YOUR FAT LAZY WHITE ASS AND DO SOME WORK ON THIS THING WILL YOU WORTHLESS PIG…. I HATE HATE HATE HATE ALL THESE FUCKEN FULLERTON PIGS… HE SELLERS GET OFF YOUR LAZY OLD ASS AND FIRE THESE ASSHOLES WILL YOU. OOHHH LETS NOT FORGET THAT WORTHLESS ONE EYED RETARDED LOOKING PIECE OF SHIT GREASE BALL CINCINELLI. HE BUDDY AT THE WINK OF YOUR “GOOD EYE” YOUR GOING TO PRISON YOU FILTHY WORTHLESS PIG. YOUR ALL GOING TO PRISON YOU WORTHLESS PIGGGSSS…

  48. #117 by GET THEM KOONS on August 6, 2011

    HEY MR. BOO! YOUR A MAJOR KISS ASS… STOP LICKING THERE PIG DECEIVER BUTTHOLES… THERE WORTHLESS AND THEY ARE ALL A BUNCH OF ASSHOLE HYPOCRITE PIIIGGGGSSSSSSSS… ALL OF THEM F.P.D BOIIISSS.
    1.PRISON
    2.PRISON
    3.PRISON
    4.PRISON
    5.PRISON
    6.PRISON
    OH YEA AND FAT FUCK GOODRICH 7. PRISON

  49. #118 by GET THEM KOONS on August 6, 2011

    FULLERTON POLICE ARE FUCKEN PIGS, LIARS, HYPOCRITES AND MOST ALL MURDERERS… LISTEN TO THIS SHIT FOLKS! THESE WORTHLESS FULLERTON PIGS HAS GIVEN TRAINING TO ALL DOWNTOWN NIGHTCLUB AND BAR SECURITY STAFF. THESE MURDEROUS HYPOCRITES WERE TEACHING THE BASIC TECHNIQUES OF HOW TO DEAL WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE DRUNK OR ON DRUGS… CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS SHIT… THATS RIGHT FOLKS THIS IS A 100% TRUE… LYING WORTHLESS FUCKEN MURDEROUS PIGS…

    • #119 by Anonymous on August 28, 2011

      you need an ass kicking and don’t look in the mirror you damn monkey now we know why your girl fakes it with when your fucking her cuz you are no real man you hide behind this blog…

      Don’t worry I’ll protect and serve your bitch. By the time I am done with her will have forgotten you exist you dumb ass

    • #120 by Anonymous on August 28, 2011

      Kelly Thomas was not innocent when are you fullerton fucks going to wake up… Look at his criminal record. His own father would not allow him in his home for the safety of others. Mr. Thomas the media whore doesn’t help the matter. He needs to all the system do its job and start taking responsibility for his son’s actions.

  50. #121 by GET THEM KOONS on August 6, 2011

    HEY MR. BOO STOP KISSING THESE FULLERTON MURDEROUS PIGS ASS… YOU KISS ASS. BY THEY WAY DOWNTOWN FULLERTON SUCKS SWEATY DIRTY NUT SACK… NOBODY LIKES ANY OF THOSE FUCKEN TRASHY PLACES… FUCK ORANGE COUNTY…

  51. #122 by mr. boo on August 6, 2011

    just.go.away.

    • #123 by Maximus on August 6, 2011

      No–YOU just go away. So there.

  52. #124 by mr. boo on August 6, 2011

    and there is so much utterly sad about your ridiculous sub-human posts but I’ll expend the energy in my typing fingers to refute only one of your points: the Fullerton PD HAS NOTHING to do with training security staff at any bar. Everything else you scribbled reveals you as a sad, hostile, sorry, soulless, lonely, disguting piece of shit. But that reveals you as being factually wrong.

  53. #125 by TxObserver on August 6, 2011

    Residents of Fullerton,

    I am a retired police officer who served in the State of Texas. Before I share my comments, I wish to disclaim that I obviously am not a witness to activities which transpired during the incident involving Kelly Thomas. I also have no facts, only information available via electronic sources.

    I wish to share personal condolence with those who have been affected by this event. Even though statements from official sources have yet to be released, the outcome of the incident with police disturbs me personally.

    Obviously as a sworn peace officer, I have been involved in many situations where physical interaction was warranted to maintain control of the situation.

    In situations that I’ve been part of, the use of force as described in Kelly’s situation appears completely unjustified and excessive. I can recall many incidents where myself and my partner were able to physically control a suspect (6′ tall, 230lbs) without the assistance of 4 other officers and tazers.

    Again, I wanted to make my position clear before sharing my thoughts with the people of Fullerton and the family of Kelly. I feel that that you should NOT let time bury what happened that night – until such a point that all facts are made available – and any who acted improperly (from the patrol officers all the way up to the senior staff/city management), face full recourse of the law they were sworn to uphold with honesty, integrity, and professionalism.

    This far from my vantage point in Texas, I do not see where any one of those three items I mention above were applied that night. I will be monitoring this closely and continue to keep those in my thoughts whose lives were affected by the loss of Kelly.

    Respectfully,

    TxObserver

    • #126 by Ex-cop now Soldier Mike on August 6, 2011

      Thank you for your post. There are a growing number of former and present ex-cops and military showing up here to post. Just goes to show it isn’t politics, it isn’t “us against them,” it’s just what is right and decent. Take care.

  54. #127 by Anita on August 6, 2011

    Thank you, Tony, for getting this letter “out there.” You are doing great work.

  55. #128 by automedon on August 6, 2011

    Good luck with today’s demonstration

    From an interested observer in Massachusetts

  56. #129 by Mark on August 6, 2011

    Anonymous :Okay, who let the Alex Jones guy in here?

    LOL

  57. #130 by manny melendez on August 6, 2011

    letter ofcomplaint of thi brutal murder was send by me to the justice Dpt. Erik Holder and kamala Harris DA,CA.

  58. #131 by Voice of Reason on August 6, 2011

    I’m a Fullerton resident and property owner who believes that something improper was done by at least one of the officers. I also believe that Sellers should resign/be fired. I have some personal experiences with Sellers, and I don’t have the highest opinion of him (no, I won’t elaborate). And, yes, I am a police officer in another city. I do not know any of the officers involved in the incident, nor am I friends with anyone on FPD. I also do not have a positive opinion of FPD (lazy, old school policing style, occasional lack of respect to the public) based upon past experiences with *some* of them, both by myself and people I know. I don’t have any inside knowledge of what occurred.

    In an effort to get people to understand police procedure, I’d like to address some of the issues raised in the letter by Doherty. I’ll address them in the order raised by Doherty.

    1. If the report was made by phone, yes, it would have been recorded. Additionally, if the call came in on 911, the phone number appears in dispatch, and it would likely have been entered in the call. The dispatchers would have also have attempted to obtain the caller’s name. If the call came in on FPD’s general number, it is possible no phone number appeared on Caller ID. If the caller would not reveal his name or phone number, it would have been entered as “anonymous”. This is not uncommon. They will not release the name or phone number (if they have it) to the public, because, as evidenced by the death threats to the officers, this person’s safety would be endangered by the mob.

    2. Based solely upon the news reports I’ve read, I’m speculating the report was by telephone, but officers are frequently flagged down in the field by people who report crimes in progress. Assuming the report was via telephone and the call was dispatched, the dispatch was also recorded. If it was a flag down, the officer would have likely reported it on the radio as soon as he received the report. All radio traffic is recorded.

    3. When an officer is dispatched to a report of a crime in progress, the first thing you do when arriving on scene is look for and attempt contact with the suspect, because as soon as a suspect sees the police arrive, he will leave the area. The reporting party is usually only contacted after the suspect has been located and detained. They would have likely received a description of the suspect when the call was dispatched, so they would have known who to look for. Also, if you have a suspect you regularly deal with, is known for certain crimes including the crime you are responding to, you arrive in the area and you see him, you’re going to detain and contact him.

    4. See my prior response. You locate and detain the suspect prior to checking vehicles, otherwise the suspect flees the area.

    5. Again, speculation, but if they were trying to arrest him, they better have probable cause. It is also not unusual to detain someone in handcuffs if they are agitated or have a violent history in an effort to avoid escalation of the situation and having to use physical force. Handcuffs do not always mean someone is under arrest.

    6. Don’t know and it’s impossible to speculate the answer to this.

    None of this information will be released until the investigation is completed. This has been touched on before….the release of this information prior to the conclusion of the investigation colors witness testimony. I’ve seen it happen many times. That’s just the way it is.

    Also, in this day and age, even with my overall negative opinion of FPD & Sellers, I have a really hard time believing that everyone, or even a majority of those on the call, took place in the abuse or coverup. The vast majority of police officers believe strongly in doing the right thing, and would not stand by while someone was being abused by another officer, and wouldn’t lie/be silent about it afterwards. Personally, I’d be pissed as hell. So would everyone I work with. The majority of police officers, especially the newer/younger guys, believe strongly in public service and trying to do what’s right.

    That’s why I think it’s irresponsible to publish the names of all the officers believed to be present as if they all took part in abuse or coverup. Some of them are likely appalled by what occurred and would want to see whoever is responsible prosecuted to the fullest extent, and likely gave honest statements about what occurred. However, in the rush to judgement, their names have been published and now they have a very realistic fear for the safety of themselves and their family.

    I also don’t think that Sellers would be stupid enough to attempt to bury this. He made a referral to the DA’s office the day following the incident, and before Kelly died. That’s exactly what he should have done. My problem with Sellers in this incident is his silence and apparent lack of leadership. He is the face of the department and needs to say something to the press, even if what he is able to discuss is very limited.

    Everyone needs to calm down. Yes, this incident deserves unwavering attention, but many posters are calling for all of the named police officers to be killed. Bushala, how would you feel if one of the officers was murdered as a direct result of your irresponsible speculation over who was involved, and when the results of the investigation are released, you find out that the murdered officer was late to the scene, had no actual physical contact with Thomas, and gave a full, honest statement about what occurred?

    Too many people here are letting their blind hatred of all police officers get in the way of logic and reason.

    • #132 by tonyserra on August 6, 2011

      With all due respect to Officer Reason,

      You sound as much like the voice of FPOA as you do reason.

      The deck is stacked against the Thomas family and the publics right to know.

      Look at Daniel Ackermans funeral yesterday in Buena Park, Hundreds of police officers, vehicles fire engines and a flyover. All for a guy who had a heart attack while doing sit-ups.

      But, the union can’t be persuaded to have it’s officers “come clean”???

    • #133 by Nokomarie on August 7, 2011

      Thanks for being so lucid and I agree with you up to a point. That man’s death was a murder. I understand necessary death, but this could not have been that.

      Scrutiny in both law enforcement and medical fields is a good thing as long as the gormless stay out of some of the most difficult situations, where they can cause more harm than good.

      But..I can’t help wondering, who was it doing the beating that no-one could stop? Someone of higher level? I just can’t believe it was six guys; more of the body would have been involved. What happened? Those injuries were surely from an object and took a bit of time to administer, or the injuries would have been different…Clearly not a fist, clearly not a hammer, I mean.

      I hope we get to the bottom of this and give his family some peace. It must be useless to hope cops stop twisting the truth, let alone stop hitting people who should not be hit. The tazer has turned out to be a bit of a bad idea.

      • #134 by mr. boo on August 7, 2011

        Hasn’t the standard rumor/explanation been that he was struck in the head repeatedly with a flashlight? That’s what was going on around early, and it’s interesting that the attorney representing the cops has gone on record saying that no flashlight was used. Why would he say that unless it was some part of a legal strategy? This is a lonnnng way toward getting resolved, and I agree with some poster somewhere that the DA, the PD and probably the City manager are digging in and just hoping that the steam behind people’s outrage and demands for justice just kind of peters out.

        • #135 by Nokomarie on August 7, 2011

          Consistent with a good sized metal flashlight yes, but it could have been something different. A medium weight weapon with an edge not used as the point of the hit could turn out to be an unusually heavy flashlight. But most domestic flashlight patterns these days would have given on the second blow and cut him. I could see splits in his skin in the hospital photo, few actual cuts if any.

          And, yeah, with almost anything the smart thing to do is delay and delay until people just don’t care anymore. Wait it out in everything you can do what you like I mean. Funny how that works

          • #136 by TASERS HAVE FLASHLIGHTS ON THEM on August 7, 2011

            THE TASER HAS A FLASH LIGHT ON IT.
            SO THE FLASHLIGHT WAS THE TASER.
            JUST STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT.
            WHAT NEVER WATCHED PIGS I MEAN COPS

  59. #137 by Mark on August 6, 2011

    1. A first degree murder committed during the commission of these same serious felonies such as robbery, burglary or rape is also eligible for the death penalty where the District Attorney elects to seek it. Many factors concerning the crime and the defendant are considered before a decision to seek the death penalty is made

    2. Second degree murder is an intentional killing without premeditation or deliberation. It also occurs where a defendant perpetrates an intentional act that results in death and the defendant harbored a conscious disregard for human life.

    3. Manslaughter is an intentional killing where the defendant acts upon a heat of passion so pervasive that an ordinary and reasonable person would have acted in the same or similar circumstances.

    I say #2 would best case for conviction

    • #138 by Oh Hello on August 6, 2011

      Ur drunk. They won’t get anything close to 2.

      • #139 by calwatch on August 6, 2011

        You need 12 people to agree to second degree murder. No officer in this state has ever been convicted of second degree murder. A conviction for involuntary manslaughter, for better or worse, is going to be the most likely outcome, unless you have a few jurors that believe in second degree so much that they are willing to hang the jury, despite pressure from 8-11 other jurors.

      • #140 by john doe on August 7, 2011

        or 3..

        • #141 by calwatch on August 7, 2011

          They’ll get involuntary.

    • #142 by OHioBuckeyeborn on August 7, 2011

      There’s also the felony murder rule.

  60. #143 by Mark on August 6, 2011

    Voice of Reason :I’m a Fullerton resident and property owner who believes that something improper was done by at least one of the officers. I also believe that Sellers should resign/be fired. I have some personal experiences with Sellers, and I don’t have the highest opinion of him (no, I won’t elaborate). And, yes, I am a police officer in another city. I do not know any of the officers involved in the incident, nor am I friends with anyone on FPD. I also do not have a positive opinion of FPD (lazy, old school policing style, occasional lack of respect to the public) based upon past experiences with *some* of them, both by myself and people I know. I don’t have any inside knowledge of what occurred.
    In an effort to get people to understand police procedure, I’d like to address some of the issues raised in the letter by Doherty. I’ll address them in the order raised by Doherty.
    1. If the report was made by phone, yes, it would have been recorded. Additionally, if the call came in on 911, the phone number appears in dispatch, and it would likely have been entered in the call. The dispatchers would have also have attempted to obtain the caller’s name. If the call came in on FPD’s general number, it is possible no phone number appeared on Caller ID. If the caller would not reveal his name or phone number, it would have been entered as “anonymous”. This is not uncommon. They will not release the name or phone number (if they have it) to the public, because, as evidenced by the death threats to the officers, this person’s safety would be endangered by the mob.
    2. Based solely upon the news reports I’ve read, I’m speculating the report was by telephone, but officers are frequently flagged down in the field by people who report crimes in progress. Assuming the report was via telephone and the call was dispatched, the dispatch was also recorded. If it was a flag down, the officer would have likely reported it on the radio as soon as he received the report. All radio traffic is recorded.
    3. When an officer is dispatched to a report of a crime in progress, the first thing you do when arriving on scene is look for and attempt contact with the suspect, because as soon as a suspect sees the police arrive, he will leave the area. The reporting party is usually only contacted after the suspect has been located and detained. They would have likely received a description of the suspect when the call was dispatched, so they would have known who to look for. Also, if you have a suspect you regularly deal with, is known for certain crimes including the crime you are responding to, you arrive in the area and you see him, you’re going to detain and contact him.
    4. See my prior response. You locate and detain the suspect prior to checking vehicles, otherwise the suspect flees the area.
    5. Again, speculation, but if they were trying to arrest him, they better have probable cause. It is also not unusual to detain someone in handcuffs if they are agitated or have a violent history in an effort to avoid escalation of the situation and having to use physical force. Handcuffs do not always mean someone is under arrest.
    6. Don’t know and it’s impossible to speculate the answer to this.
    None of this information will be released until the investigation is completed. This has been touched on before….the release of this information prior to the conclusion of the investigation colors witness testimony. I’ve seen it happen many times. That’s just the way it is.
    Also, in this day and age, even with my overall negative opinion of FPD & Sellers, I have a really hard time believing that everyone, or even a majority of those on the call, took place in the abuse or coverup. The vast majority of police officers believe strongly in doing the right thing, and would not stand by while someone was being abused by another officer, and wouldn’t lie/be silent about it afterwards. Personally, I’d be pissed as hell. So would everyone I work with. The majority of police officers, especially the newer/younger guys, believe strongly in public service and trying to do what’s right.
    That’s why I think it’s irresponsible to publish the names of all the officers believed to be present as if they all took part in abuse or coverup. Some of them are likely appalled by what occurred and would want to see whoever is responsible prosecuted to the fullest extent, and likely gave honest statements about what occurred. However, in the rush to judgement, their names have been published and now they have a very realistic fear for the safety of themselves and their family.
    I also don’t think that Sellers would be stupid enough to attempt to bury this. He made a referral to the DA’s office the day following the incident, and before Kelly died. That’s exactly what he should have done. My problem with Sellers in this incident is his silence and apparent lack of leadership. He is the face of the department and needs to say something to the press, even if what he is able to discuss is very limited.
    Everyone needs to calm down. Yes, this incident deserves unwavering attention, but many posters are calling for all of the named police officers to be killed. Bushala, how would you feel if one of the officers was murdered as a direct result of your irresponsible speculation over who was involved, and when the results of the investigation are released, you find out that the murdered officer was late to the scene, had no actual physical contact with Thomas, and gave a full, honest statement about what occurred?
    Too many people here are letting their blind hatred of all police officers get in the way of logic and reason.

    Listen up cop lover nobody is calling for these 6 clowns to be killed other than then the electric chair or gas chamber or L/I, i think you see soooooooooo much energy and anger from all of us is because these fucks are all working on our dime and we can’t get a straight answer out of these lying assholes. ALL COPS ARE SUSPECT in this case until proven other wise. Blame that on the Chief not us

  61. #144 by Maximus on August 6, 2011

    There will be no federal action against the officers–the victim was not one of Eric Holder’s “people.”

  62. #145 by automedon on August 6, 2011

    I urge everyone to write to the Governor to express your concerns. Here is a copy of mine.

    Dear Sir,

    I urge you to intervene in the Kelly Thomas case in Fullerton. My primary concern, giving the less than forthright manner with which this has been dealt so far (injuries to the officers, which later occurred not to be true, the question as to whether a call was actually made regarding car break-ins, the alleged monetary offer to the victim’s father, etc), is that intact evidence will not be made available to investigators.

    I, as do many observers of this case, are dubious as to the willingness of the FPD to provide factual accounts and material evidence. It is therefore of urgent importance that there be oversight which goes beyond the self preserving interests of the FPD.

    Sincerely

  63. #146 by Snow Hume on August 6, 2011

    Without any disrespect to “Voice of Reason” or to Councilmember Quirk: I oppose calling for the resignation of the Fullerton Police Chief Sellers. I realize I have “no standing to say anything” because I do not any longer live in Fullerton, but I think that this Police Chief has been muzzled. Already there is a split between the pubic statements by three councilmembers — oddly by the ones who are not retired FPD. This website has published an intimidation letter sent to by a private attorney who represents an Organization; who knows what similar communications have been sent to the City Attorney, or perhaps Mr. Sellers himself? And we are hardly privy to what sorts of advice,instructions & “direction” that the contracted City Attorney and the City Manager may be directing to the Mr. Sellers.
    The FPD already has a “spokesman” who reports to Mr. Sellers; if the content of the public reports is inadequate, then the failings should be documented, and presented to Mr. Sellers in the form of a “request for directions” to the “departmental spokesman”. Then, if he repeatedly does not respond at all, the community might have a reason to ask for his resignation. The Charles Doherty letter above is an example of the kind of tone which such a letter to Mr. Sellers ought to have.

    I would like to make a technical comment about phone calls. It may well be that the non-emergency phone line was used for the making of a report, and that there was no automatic display of the source phone number. Nonetheless, every phone call to a “land line” has a “PIN” — a Phone Identification Number. These can only be obtained, after court order, if the investigation clearly involves a felony-grade crime. This case will, at least during the investigation, meet that requirement. So the source phone number is available.

    I hope that, at some point in the future, the FFFF or some similar forum might focus on what is happening in the real world of federal civil rights litigation: it seems that citizen-victims of official misconduct only rarely win, yet public employee victims of personnel decisions are winning millions… from the Civil Rights Act of 1870, 42 U.S.C. section 1983. The amount of money which some police officials could win in a federal civil rights suit, on account of the slightest error in some public statement by the Police Chief, makes a $5 million settlement to the Thomas family look like “chump change”. I think that Chief Sellers is protecting the City’s budget by leaving it to the nonexecutive, and thus civilly immune, officials of the City make any statements that might be “actionable.” He is doing a good job by saying nothing. As we say in Russion: “Luchshe molchat’”. Best wishes, WSH

    • #147 by Voice of Reason on August 6, 2011

      Let me clarify my position.

      I agree that Sellers is unable to comment with any significant detail due to very real concerns about liability. However, at the very least he needs to be available to the press to make generalized statements such as, “As we have previously said, on July 5th, Kelly Thomas was injured during the course of an investigation into a vehicle burglary. Shortly thereafter an investigation was initiated by the OCDA. We are unable to discuss any details at this time due to the pending nature of the investigation. We have been advised by OCDA and city attorneys that the release of any further details would endanger the investigation and might cause unnecessary liability for the city. As such, I am unable to give any additional details at this time.” He should also be willing to listen to questions, carefully evaluate whether they can or should be answered, and at least be able to say “I’m sorry, but I am unable to comment on that for the reasons I have previously stated.” He needs to be in front of cameras giving the reasons why he cannot comment. Instead, we get nothing, and in turn, the press and blogs are creating their own “truth”. In this particular case, silence is being construed as guilt and a conspiracy to hide the truth, because he’s not saying why he can’t comment. This in turn affects the morale of all the good and honest officers still trying to do a good job at FPD.

    • #148 by Voice of Reason on August 6, 2011

      By the way, here is the official press release:

      http://www.cityoffullerton.com/civica/press/display.asp?layout=1&Entry=2433

      FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
      PRESS RELEASE #72811

      Subject :

      Fullerton Police urge witnesses to July 5 Kelly Thomas incident to call OCDA
      Contact : Sgt. Andrew Goodrich, Fullerton Police Department (714) 738-6838

      Fullerton Police Chief Michael Sellers is joining with the Orange County District Attorney’s Office in asking any witnesses to the July 5 incident involving the Fullerton Police Department and Kelly Thomas to come forward and contact the OCDA.

      The OCDA released a statement Wednesday (July 27) asking witnesses to contact the DA’s Office. The DA’s request follows-up on a similar plea for witnesses to come forward made previously by the Police Department.

      The incident occurred July 5. Fullerton Police Sgt. Andrew Goodrich said officers responded to the bus depot at 123 S. Pomona Ave. at approximately 8:30 p.m. after the Police Department had received reports that a man was trying to get into cars parked in the area. Goodrich said the suspect was described as a male transient with long hair, no shirt, and carrying a backpack.

      Officers arrived at the depot and contacted the suspect, identified as Kelly Thomas, a homeless man who frequented the area. An altercation ensured between the officers and Thomas.

      During the arrest, Thomas sustained serious injuries and was transported initially to St. Jude Medical Center via ambulance, and then later to UCI Medical Center via ambulance. Thomas was taken off of life support July 10.

      Immediately after the incident, Fullerton Police requested the Orange County District Attorney to take over the investigation. The OCDA responded and assumed the investigation.

      Chief Michael Sellers said “The Department believes it is in the best interest of everyone – the Police Department, Mr. Thomas’ Family and the Fullerton community as a whole – to have a thorough and independent investigation conducted by an outside agency. We are cooperating fully with the District Attorney’s Office in the investigation.”

      Fullerton Mayor F. Richard Jones, M.D., agreed with Chief Sellers’ decision to bring the DA’s Office in to investigate the case.

      “I’m sure I speak for the entire Fullerton City Council when I say how shocked I am by this incident,” said Fullerton Mayor F. Richard Jones, M.D. “As a parent, I can’t begin to imagine the pain the family of Kelly Thomas is experiencing over the loss of their son and brother, and my heart goes out to his family.

      “I concur completely with the actions of our Police Department to immediately request that the Orange County District Attorney’s Office conduct a thorough and impartial investigation into the events that occurred the night of Mr. Thomas’ arrest and his subsequent death. Until that investigation is complete, it would be inappropriate for me to comment further on the situation.”

      Anyone with information on the case is asked to call the Orange County District Attorney’s Office at (714) 347-8813.

      ###

      • #149 by calwatch on August 7, 2011

        It took three weeks to issue the press release. Sellers FAIL and that is one of the many reasons why he needs to go.

  64. #150 by John on August 6, 2011

    Did the beating take place in the bus station or train station parking lot? If it was the train station parking lot wouldn’t this be the jurisdiction of the Amtrak Police ? They protect the stations

    • #151 by runningair on August 6, 2011

      This all happened at the bus station. Amtrak Police does not patrol the Fullerton Station.

    • #152 by Anonymous on August 6, 2011

      The orange county sheriff’s dept/OCTA handles the bus terminal

  65. #153 by vickieb on August 6, 2011

    Keep hammering and hounding the bastard’*

  66. #154 by corrupt on August 6, 2011

    If you have a hard time believing that the whole department could be corrupt and trying to cover up this murder…… look at Danziger Bridge and Henry Glover….. dozens and dozens of cops involved in coverups…. cops are loosing their jobs and freedom in New York due to the ticket fixing scandal that involves hundreds of cops. Let us also not forget the Chicago cops that are in prison for trumping up charges and sending innocent people to prison, some for life. Dozens of cops involved there to…… yeah the whole department sure as hell COULD be corupt. The DOJ is taking over Seattle due to massive corruption and Denver is next…. no we do NOT trust cops.

  67. #155 by Tony's Fan on August 6, 2011

    This type of comment pretty much sums up what FFFF is all about…Tony you are my hero

    #99 by GET THEM KOONS on August 6, 2011

    SEND THAT KOON,JUNGLE BUNNY, JIGGABOO,SLAVE MONKEY NIGGER KENTON HAMPTON TO PRISON! HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED THAT NIGHT FOR 245P.C AND THEN ARRESTED FOR 2ND DEGREE MURDER… THAT FUCKING NIGGER IS NOTHING BUT A SLAVE MONKEY THAT COULDNT GET HIRED WITH A REAL DEPARTMENT SO FULLERTON HIRED ASHEE BLACK ASS BECAUSE OF AFFIRMATIVE BLACKTION. F.P.D STANDS FOR FUCKEN PIG DECEIVER… I SMELL COVER-UP DUE TO THAT FAT FUCK SGT.GOODRICH NOT SAYING A THING TO THE MEDIA… HEY FAT ASS GOODRICH GET YOUR FAT LAZY WHITE ASS AND DO SOME WORK ON THIS THING WILL YOU WORTHLESS PIG…. I HATE HATE HATE HATE ALL THESE FUCKEN FULLERTON PIGS… HE SELLERS GET OFF YOUR LAZY OLD ASS AND FIRE THESE ASSHOLES WILL YOU. OOHHH LETS NOT FORGET THAT WORTHLESS ONE EYED RETARDED LOOKING PIECE OF SHIT GREASE BALL CINCINELLI. HE BUDDY AT THE WINK OF YOUR “GOOD EYE” YOUR GOING TO PRISON YOU FILTHY WORTHLESS PIG. YOUR ALL GOING TO PRISON YOU WORTHLESS PIGGGSSS…

    • #156 by Kevin on August 6, 2011

      That type of comment will kill FFFF’s good efforts and will lose support.

      • #157 by Anonymous on August 6, 2011

        ITS THE SCUM COPS WRITING THIS SHIT

        • #158 by Kevin on August 7, 2011

          Interesting postulation. In either case, it should be deleted. Huge turn-off unless you’re trying to chase off good citizens from supporting FFFF.

  68. #159 by carl on August 6, 2011

    RON THOMAS CALLS FOR DEATH PENALTY!
    see exclusive videos of rally here:
    http://www.workingmanews.com

    • #160 by calwatch on August 7, 2011

      Now that is a bit silly and excessive, unless he has proof of premeditation by Cicanelli and the others (and if you heard him mention it in a social setting, call the DA ASAP and report that so it can be used in a court of law). First degree requires premeditation, which is not present.

      • #161 by OHioBuckeyeborn on August 7, 2011

        This could be charged as Mayhem and a death result of Mayhem is….the Felony Murder rule

  69. #162 by Ed S. on August 6, 2011

    Remember the guy who spoke in favor of the City Council and Chief Sellers at the City Council meeting?

    Remember he said he owns a business in Fullerton, and he was there to thank the Police for all the help they’ve given him with his business.

    Is that guy’s business in the train station neighborhood? Could he be the one whose employee was instructed to call the police and report a burglary when the homeless are around?

    • #163 by Anonymous on August 6, 2011

      I remember that guy but I don’t remember his name. Fat guy right?

    • #164 by Break In on August 6, 2011

      Could be. Kelly was a thief drug addict. Everyone wanted the loser away from their business. Who wouldn’t. Dirty scum. So people called all the time.

  70. #165 by Just wondering? on August 6, 2011

    When Kelly Thomas was being beaten by the Cops and he was yelling….Dad….Dad…Did the beating remind him of his childhood when his cop dad would beat him senseless?

  71. #166 by smbrumley on August 6, 2011

    Just wondering? :When Kelly Thomas was being beaten by the Cops and he was yelling….Dad….Dad…Did the beating remind him of his childhood when his cop dad would beat him senseless?

    Schizophrenics often have the mental capacity of a child you nit-wit! He wa calling for his dad to help him as any child would in that situation!

  72. #167 by Just wondering? on August 6, 2011

    When Kelly Thomas beat his grandfather with a fire poker do you think he was yelling grandpa….grandpa…?

    • #168 by Nokomarie on August 7, 2011

      Maybe.

  73. #169 by merijoe on August 6, 2011

    He couldnt have “ran” that far if he was beaten near the bench he was sitting on

    Im concerned that if the DA does eventually release the video, it will be edited and not at a qulality that will be clear to any viewer

    I read the Police Officer Bill of Rights and in there it states basically that, during an investigation images of the officer cant be released without their consent for fear of safety of theor families not that it will interfer with an investigation. Here it is for review-http://www.shslaborlaw.com/police_officers_bill_of_rights

    I read thru these and see that these must be the what the DA is referring to for not releasing the tape:

    3307.5. (a) No public safety officer shall be required as a condition of employment by his or her employing public safety department or other public agency to consent to the use of his or her photograph or identity as a public safety officer on the Internet for any purpose if that officer reasonably believes that the disclosure may result in a threat, harassment, intimidation, or harm to that officer or his or her family.

    (b) Based upon his or her reasonable belief that the disclosure of his or her photograph or identity as a public safety officer on the Internet as described in subdivision (a) may result in a threat, harassment, intimidation, or harm, the officer may notify the department or other public agency to cease and desist from that disclosure. After the notification to cease and desist, the officer, a district attorney, or a United States Attorney may seek an injunction prohibiting any official or unofficial use by the department or other public agency on the Internet of his or her photograph or identity as a public safety officer. The court may impose a civil penalty in an amount not to exceed five hundred dollars ($500) per day commencing two working days after the date of receipt of the notification to cease and desist.

    • #170 by Kevin on August 6, 2011

      This is what you get when you let unions control Sacramento. WHERE IS THE CITIZEN’S BILL OF RIGHTS?

      • #171 by mr. boo on August 7, 2011

        It’s in something called the U.S. Constitution, nitwit.

        • #172 by mr. boo on August 7, 2011

          actually, kevin, i retract the nitwit comment. Reading your other posts, I can tell you’re a reasonable and concerned poster, as opposed to so many of these worthless trollers. It’s hard sometimes to keep track of who’s who.

    • #173 by Oh Hello on August 6, 2011

      Wrong. It’s because once someone watches a video that’s what they remember, not what they actually saw. I’ve seen it for years. They make stuff up. People will come forward saying they saw it too just cause they saw the video. We will see it eventually but nothing to gain by ruining the case now.

      • #174 by Nokomarie on August 7, 2011

        Woah…wait, that’s not true. A person watches themselves on video, they recall more about what they were thinking as long as the video is about them thinking and speaking about their thought. In a case such as this they would have been thinking and feeling strongly as they spoke and the video would only refocus them on what they meant at the time. A physical video or a video in which the subject or moves is usually not seen with the same immediacy. Come-on that’s just basic logic accepting a normal IQ for the people in the video.

        In this case there is the huge lapse of time, I mean the month’s lapse between the murder and the witnesses recall of exactly what they said about the murder and how they spoke of it on the bus is/is not material to the case. Anything will be done to make the witnesses look like goobers and these are not the most educated of people. I mean they will attempt to get people off the hook by bringing up discrepancies between their recall now and their statements back then on the tape.

    • #175 by Nokomarie on August 6, 2011

      I’m afraid you are right. We will never see that video from bus #6. I’ve got to admit that it wasn’t well done in this forum to publish the officer’s names as family members can be attacked for no reason. That may be what they did to poor Mr. Kelly but their kids deserve protection. Let’s just stop allowing abusive police practices, how about that?

  74. #176 by AMERICA has become a Police State! on August 6, 2011

    Please sign this petition:

    http://www.petition2congress.com/4898/kelly-thomas-law/

    Also, “Anonymous” Hacker Group Threatens To Dismantle Fullerton PD’s Website

    http://www.pixiq.com/article/anonymous-hacker-group-threatens-to-dismantle-fullerton-website

    • #177 by Nokomarie on August 6, 2011

      The petition needs to be re-written by a lawyer. It makes some statements that could be disproved and that needs to be handled. Also, a nurse, I am required by the STATE that I work in to report actual and suspected abuse. The police are funded by towns and states, not the federal government. That would be the FBI and you don’t hear about them beating anybody up. Nobody hears about them drinking coffee either but there you go.

  75. #178 by Hog farming in Fulas on August 6, 2011

    This is great…Pig has piglet. Pig fails to properly raise piglet. piglet is killed by other pigs…sounds like a problem down on the farm.

    You don’t see all these white people in the hood when they kill brown people.

    • #179 by Oh Hello on August 6, 2011

      Daddy was a fake piglet. Got fired. No wonder he’s mad. He dumped his son in the trash and now acts all concerned. Screw daddy. Oink.

      • #180 by Chuck M. on August 6, 2011

        You keep posting that but offer no evidence of this.

    • #181 by Nokomarie on August 6, 2011

      How many brown people in the area are Pigs? Brown Pig surely would raise holy hell over brown piglet’s undeserved death. Yeah, it’s a cop’s son and the father is outraged enough to fight back. Hell, don’t whine; the Salem Witch trials didn’t stop until they accused a judge’s wife. Maybe this is at last one step too far.

  76. #182 by Susan James on August 6, 2011

    Fullerton’s Future leaders run this blog…..I’m moving

    • #183 by The Fullerton Harpoon on August 6, 2011

      We welcome you to Fullerton.

    • #184 by Johnny Fever on August 6, 2011

      Adios!

  77. #185 by John on August 6, 2011

    So fire all 6, then they are not cops, then release the tape.

  78. #186 by FEDUP on August 6, 2011

    Fullerton Future has done a great job of giving people a form to voice concerns. The blogs started out great, but some of these comments are getting out of hand. Tony, you need to urge bloggers to clean up the hate filled messages or the reputation of the blog site will become just like the reputation of the Fullerton PD.

    • #187 by Nokomarie on August 7, 2011

      @ FEDUP you mean a sh#t flinging contests? Really everyone here is remarkedly civil. The reason why it is so messy is that this is receiving nationwide attention (plus trolls). But that is the consequence of getting attention. Pity the tone goes down and the point of the original posts gets a little lost but even though the powers that be seem to be trying to keep this off the TV it has been seen. Mr. Kelly is not forgotten after all their trying.

  79. #188 by merijoe on August 6, 2011

    Why do some posters or rather “posuers” try to stifle any comments on this blog because they are offended and feel it bad comments “its out of hand” or ” will ruin the reputation of this blog” or “want us to wait until the investigation is over”

    Ever hear of “freedom of Speech”? everything is good until it goes against what you believe or what you like.

    Its a community blog-that means you get the bad as well as the good-people need a place to vent their outrage especially those who live within the community or should just keep it inside and shut up like good lttle nazi soldiers?

  80. #189 by Johnny Fever on August 6, 2011

    If the trolls trying to defend these scum cops had a child’s intellect, they’d be above average for FPD.

    F the PD!

  81. #190 by Lizzie on August 6, 2011

    Dear Mr. Doherty, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for your SUPERB letter w/ alllll the pointed
    questionS re: the so-called officerS who
    KILLED Kelly Thomas!! You, along w/ the
    FAB John & Ken WILL get juistice for Kelly Thomas’ Family, this “incident” will NOT be swept under the carpet!! BlessingS,

  82. #191 by Airhead on August 6, 2011

    Hoodlums in Uniform.

    F- ullerton
    P – ath of
    D- estruction

  83. #192 by get them koons on August 6, 2011

    Hey MR. Boo ! stop being such a PUSSY… you know its all true! you are a lying SACK OF SHIT… YOUR TRYING TO SUCK UP TO THOSE WORTHLESS FULLERTON PIG DECIEVERS… AND FYI:YES I’AM PROUD OF BEING A ANGRY MEAN ASSHOLE…

  84. #193 by anonymous on August 6, 2011

    In response to a serious letter here is information regarding a serious problem of police brutality and lack of accountability here in California aided by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

    The Califonria Federal Courts are aiding and abetting to guarantee that people’s civil rights will continue to be violated with impunity in California by police who cover up frame and then assault and batter the victim, or using corrupt California judges who take the bait to secure promotion

    The California Federal Courts use such ridiculous decisions as Pony v. County of Los Angeles 433 F3d 1138 (2006) to terminate civil rights cases in California, even though this conflicts with Federal U.S. Constitutional law and the intent of the applicable Federal Civil Rights Statutes such as 42 USC 1983, 42 USC 1985, and 42 USC 1988 and the civil rights act itself..

    See Links below for the Pony case:

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1095926.html

    http://openjurist.org/433/f3d/1138/pony-v-county-of-los-angeles

    Note: Pony v. County of Los Angeles 433 F3d 1138 (9th Circ. January 11th 2006) was written by Judge Jay S. Bybee who became a 9th Circuit Court of Appeals Judge after ratifying the TORTURE MEMOS for the Bush Administration.

    Meanwhile the law firm Yagman and Reichmann who did all the police brutality cases in the Rampart LAPD scandal

    http://articles.latimes.com/2000/sep/20/local/me-23928

    and who also wanted court access for alleged terrorists, accusing Bush’s Federal government of subverting democratic principles

    http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jul/11/local/me-detain11

    and who also became involved in Ruby Ridge problem as a special prosecutor

    http://articles.latimes.com/2001/aug/27/local/me-38876

    tried to recently get the 9th Circuit Federal appeal court to reverse the Pony case – link below

    Pony v. County of Los Angeles 433 F.3d 1138 (9th Circuit 2006)

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1095926.html

    But look what happened in the 9th Circuit Court Of Appeals – in regards to guarding people against Police corruption and police thugs, It was denied. No big surprise here, given how things are run around here.

    Here’s the link

    http://courtlistener.com/pdf/2011/05/11/L._Benas_v._Leroy_Baca.pdf

    It is not just a problem of rogue police and sleeping police chiefs who look the other way. It is a problem that goes all the way up the court system who don’t care about civil rights for individuals in America.

  85. #194 by Peanut on August 6, 2011

    You know the the DA couldn’t/wouldn’t go after Corona, it took the FBI to indite him and the prople of Orange County let him off. The DA’s office and everyone involved are digging in, this is not going to be an easy fight or win for the residents of Fullerton

    • #195 by Snow Hume on August 7, 2011

      I realize that this particular “thread” is not concerned with former Sheriff CARONA. That being said, the Wikipedia article quotes CARONA as saying that DA RACKAUCKAS was behind the prosecution, because he felt that CARONA “was too weak”.
      I personally believe that the feds made the decision to pursue an unmeritorious case against CARONA that he might well beat entirely at trial — and he did beat the principal portion of it. I believe that they chose to do this in order to destroy him politically and financially, even though they were not particularly convinced of his guilt. And I believe that the decision emanated from DOD, because the actions by CARONA or one of his subordinates during 2004 led to irreparable harm to the American military mission in Afghanistan and Iraq. Sometimes people take actions that are unpatriotic but that are not treasonous and are not criminally punishable. But the actor needs to be punished, just the same. And I agree with the federal government’s decision to maliciously prosecute CARONA and to thereby financially destroy him, even though he was ultimately convicted of something that had nothing to do with the original charges of corruption in office. Of course the federal prosecutors will never admit that… but the meritlessness of the “core” case is obvious to anyone with legal training.
      CARONA has harmed national security, and he did it in a way that also involved betrayal of political allies. I believe he was not punished for being a corrupt sheriff, but rather for being a most disloyal American citizen. WSH

  86. #196 by CHIKEN on August 6, 2011

    the DA is sooo corrupt,,

    the cops are sooo corrupt.

    trust the FEDS,, hmmmm not really,

    then what?

    the people are the power.

    If they people are powerful.

  87. #197 by CHIKEN on August 6, 2011

    fullertonians.are.awsome.always.have.been.always.will.be

  88. #198 by Nokomarie on August 6, 2011

    Fine letter. I’m posting links to this to places like NPR.

  89. #199 by concerned on August 7, 2011

    What I find particularly disturbing about the way this case/investigation is being handled is that we’re being told that investigators are waiting for the results of the autopsy and toxicology studies on the corpse. However, in this case, since Kelly Thomas was alive and under intensive medical care for five days, the results of the autopsy and tox tests are likely meaningless. It’s known with certainty that Kelly Thomas died because he was taken off life support due to a likely irreversible coma. What is usually of interest from an autopsy is the state of the person during the interaction with the police. In this case, the autopsy will tell the state of the person after five days of intensive medical care. The usual playbook in a case like this is for tox test to show some sort of drug or other abnormality and for the police to get an expert witness to say that that’s what contributed to his death. The doctors who treated Kelly for five days know with certainty what the impact of the beating on Kelly’s physical state. No autopsy data can override that. I suspect this is why Ron Thomas is so confident that there is a capital murder case here. He’s holding this data like a trump card.

    • #200 by The Fullerton Harpoon on August 7, 2011

      Excellent points.

      • #201 by concerned on August 7, 2011

        Thanks! I’m not from OC but for those locals who are pressing this case I would present the following two questions to those driving the investigation:

        1) Given that Kelly was under intensive medical care for five days after the incident, what additional information is expected from the autopsy, tox tests? and
        2) Given that Kelly was under intensive medical care for five days after the incident, how is it that the autopsy results are not confounded by the 5 days of intensive medical care?

        The implicit question in this is ‘isn’t there enough info already available to move on this case?’.

        • #202 by Justice4kelly on August 8, 2011

          Concerned- Me and other people are asking the same question. You can bet if it was me or you who did the beating we’d already be in a dark cel. Grand Jury time.

  90. #203 by corrupt on August 7, 2011

    The coroner probably has a CCW issued by the chief. He gets to carry a little badge and hang out with the cops….. he is suspect too.

  91. #204 by CHIKEN on August 7, 2011

    for sure he is suspect too

  92. #205 by CHIKEN on August 7, 2011

    as are all the dispatchers and anyone in the FPD office that is found out to lie or cover up ,,, especially when they are under oath in court.

    and just a thought ,, there is a MOLE ,, in the FPD ,, that has been on the KFI and has leaked other information ( great =) )

    and even double great is the PIGGERS in the police station are shitting themselves, they cant trust ANYONE, because there is a MOLE, and they are probably running around in their little fort in a chaotic shit storm of FEAR , LOATHING , for their lives,,, and for fear of what will come out ,, who knows ,,, what ,, who may be the mole ,,,, scared pigs ,, shit on themselves on the way to SLAUGHTER…

    CHXN

  93. #206 by Anonymous on August 7, 2011

    I get the feeling that many of the sleazy comments on here are in fact a campaign by FPD to discredit REAL concerned citizens.

    Be smart people, not all of us are blood thirsty thugs like FPD.
    Most of us are good, tax paying people that just want to see justice served.

    • #207 by Annonymous on September 28, 2011

      Comment to #204

      Why can’t concern citizens have comments that do not agree with you without being called sleazy. Their is should thing as freedom of speech. I am also a good, tax payer and want to wait until all the facts are in. From all sources not just the ones you want to listen too.

  94. #208 by Peanut on August 7, 2011

    Has anyone noticed how quiet the FPD has been since the meeting on Tuesday? Drove by there and I swear that there were 50 FPD cars parked in the back. I haven’t even heard a siren and I live close to the FPD station.

  95. #209 by MeYou on August 7, 2011

    Evil grows strong while good men stand still.

    This whole world is upside down.. How any police officer in the USA can go to work without asking for Fullerton to be investigated and fumigated is a tribute to our violent evolution that we think we need to keep.

    for real.. fuck those people .. cover up and hide a murder(er) makes you implicit

    could you imagine if this was 6 mexicans who beat and murdered a homeless person and it was all caught on tape etc..
    chair
    chair
    chair
    chair
    etc

    http://www.foia.gov/report-makerequest.html

  96. #210 by Justice4kelly on August 8, 2011

    If you worked for the business and put in the bogus crime call- stand by. You are in deep, deep shit. Save your own ass, come clean with the FBI. If you were coached by the cops you can get immunity from prosecution. If you keep silent then I hope you rot in a cell before you rot in hell.

  97. #211 by Anon on August 9, 2011

    Was a Rampart attorney- On Police Abuses

    Warning – Some Bad Language

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gil9dKlRNI

    • #212 by NoWorries on August 9, 2011

      Not Yagman. The biggest cop hater in the world. No wonder he hated cops cause he was a criminal. Disbarred for life as he should be. Liar and a cheat his whole life. Best day ever when he was gone forever.

  98. #213 by vw type 53a on October 15, 2011

    Jim bob :
    I loved living in Fullas. Knew it was fucked up in a Good Old Boy Crypto Facist kind of way. Buy my god… The Slide Bar is the single biggest problem violence wise in the Downtown Area. The city closed Club 369 back in the day. Not sure what The Slide Bar scum fucks do to keep the pigs at bay.

    Just need to correct this statement. The city did NOT close 369. Greg sold it when his first child was expected. Don’t say things you don’t know.

  99. #214 by David T. on May 9, 2012

    The Fullerton pigs responsible for murdering the mentally ill homeless man should be sentenced to death.

  100. #215 by BMW on May 9, 2012

    I am sick and tired of seeing Thomas on TV acting like he cared for kelly, that mofo did not, how can a parent throw his son out on the streets ? wait kelly was a threat to other family members.

    Ron Thomas your a fake SOB and you need to rot in hell. If you were a good parent you would have helpped your son and made sure he received treatment for any of his illness. TO all the TEAM KELLY girls in the background, the one on the right during Tuesdays 7 news broadcast, your beautiful.

    Ron Thomas stop being a MEDIA WHORE! and stop those fake tears loser!

    To all you cop haters, do me a huge favor, when you become a victim of a crime, please don;t call the cops! we don’t need you filing a complaint or lawsuit like Ron Thomas did because the cops did their jobs.

    I SUPPORT FULLERTON POLICE AND THEIR WONDERFUL CHIEF

  101. #216 by Orange Cape Hides Me on May 9, 2012

    BMW, is your real name Ramos

    Your an asshat. had it not been for Ron Thomas advocating this criminal actions of the FPD would have been swept under the carpet.

    Sorry BMW but the DA has reviewed the evidence and all information concludes this was not reasonable police conduct

    Geez asshat we allknow if the DA charges you with a crime……. must be guilty

  102. #217 by BMW on May 9, 2012

    Sorry Orange cape the DA gave into public opinion and once again the DA became a Media whore. The DA has many quailified Deputy DAs that could handle the case, but he wants the spot light on him.

    Why are you hiding under an orange cape?

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