Judge Refuses to Drop Charges in Kelly Thomas Case
Another effort by the lawyers for the FPD cops charged in the murder of transient Kelly Thomas has failed.
The Voice of OC(EA) has the story succinctly, here. Apparently the issue will be revisited again on the 18th in Judge William R. Froeberg’s court, but from the statements made by the judge it sure looks like this will go forward.
190 Replies to “Judge Refuses to Drop Charges in Kelly Thomas Case”
Justice for Kelly Thomas! Hopefully a trial date is set next Friday.
I just watched the video, again. Kelly was stupid not listening to the orders he was given. Ramos saying what he did did not put fear into Kelly, at all. He told Ramos to hit him. Kelly wasn’t afraid. He was just like most of you FFF supporters, no regard for police. Justice will prevail in favor of the officers. Question, how many of you would fight with police? None!!
Kelly was sick, your EVIL!!!
I only have one thing to say to that, Unarmed man, beat to death. Where is that OK?
“Unarmed man, beat to death. Where is that OK?”………. Hmmmmmmm
In Santa Ana!
It was January 11, 2013 last Friday and SAPD13, Paul Walters’ death squad already gunned down 2 unarmed citizens.
It is usually about 20 by the end of the year.
Walters is now city Manager facing impeachment by the council back to be the SAPD Chief.
Imagine the COP who encourage his pigs to use young Mexicans as a target practice. The killed youth is always unarmed trying to avoid COPs and shoot in the back.
Walters encourage his SAPD13 death squad to kill mother in front of her 18mo old daughter.
Folks that is not Saddam, that is Paul Walters, I am talking about.
He also manufactured cocaine in his SAPD lab to sting about 350 children near by the Willard Intermediate School in Santa Ana to arrest them and turn them into psychopathic youth in his jail in which they were raped and abused by the pigs.
Obviously he had to empty his Jail from serious killers to make room for Innocent children who were setup by his sting.
This moron mongoloid Walters call that community policing, an idea copied from the communist regimes.
This is your leftist Obama USA in action folks.
Jesus! The point isn’t that KT didn’t ‘follow orders’. Even a GED educated cop should have been able to tell that the ‘suspect’ was mentally incapable of following orders, does a sane person ask for more physical abuse? Further physical violence against the suspect, then becomes assault. I guess that’s SOP for the brutish, sadistic people we have working patrol in FPD.
Kelly was not stupid — he was mentally disabled you asshole!
“the ‘suspect’ was mentally incapable of following orders”………. Hmmmmmm
That is offensive to disable persons.
Under the left-liberal-progressive GED paradigm we are all equal.
The COP properly identify that KT is not following the orders.
If you want to change it, you must change left-liberal-progressive GED paradigm and not to blame the COP.
Under the Obama care should restore the well establish medical IQ classifications of Idiot, imbecile, moron and mongoloid.
The bracelets with such classification should be permanently placed on such person so the COP can clearly see it.
Same like we do with diabetic and other cripples now.
It would save lives.
I should add that Idiots can’t vote!
Well this throws a monkey wrench into everything.
United States law
The California Penal Code Section 26 states that “Idiots” are one of six types of people who are not capable of committing crimes.
In several states, “idiots” do not have the right to vote:
* Arkansas Article III, Section 5
* Iowa Article II, section 5
* Kentucky Section 145
* Mississippi Article 12, Section 241
* New Mexico Article VII, section 1
* Ohio (Article V, Section 6)
How can you tell the difference between being stupid and uncooperate and mentally disable. He didnt sound mentally disable when Kelly was talking shit to the officer. And telling the officer to start punching. Shut up already, you are the asshole.
the man is dead because of the officers’ actions. It does not matter one iota if the victim was stupid, uncooperative, or mentally disabled. You have been penalized 10 internet points.
“the man is dead because of the officers’ actions”……. Hmmmmmmm
Leftist Obama stated: The guns kill people; The batons kill people; The flashlights kill people, The choke holds kill people — not people or officers kill people
We must ban: The guns, batons, flashlights and hands — Obama thinks.
If he wouldnt have fought and done what he was told, his heart wouldnt have expoded like a watermelon.
“If he wouldnt have fought and done what he was told”……….. Hmmmmm
He didn’t fought!….. Cording to DA he had right to defend himself against Ramos’ threats.
“done what he was told”……… since wen an “idiot” COP who has no legal right even to vote, should give any orders to any one.
A cop has no right to even vote. Boy, do you know how stupid you sound. I gave up on the stupidity of this blog. DA said kelly had the right to defend himself. Dont worry that will hit T-Rack in the face soon enough.
“Dont worry that will hit T-Rack in the face soon enough”……… Hmmmmm
It is the law Mike Brute.
Unfortunately no one flows the law because of the unions terrorism.
Assuming that the COP is an idiot he can’t legally vote and, I do not give a shit how stupid it sounds to you.
“He didn’t fought!….. Cording to DA he had right to defend himself against Ramos’ threats.”…..Hmmmmmm
Fiala, you’re nothing but untermensch. You’re probably a Slav.
“Fiala, you’re nothing but untermensch. You’re probably a Slav.”……… Hmmmmm
Ehrlichman, and you are obviously a Jew.
The Nazis also considered some percentages of Slavs like Russians, Croatians, Ukrainians, Czechs and Slovaks, with the initial inclusion of Poles and Belarusians to be the sufficient subjects for Germanisation.
Yes, another smart,witty and insightful observation!
Like I said, it should have been a clue to the cops that KT was mentally ill when he invited further physical abuse. The cops simply got real pissed off and let loose on the guy. Defense of this type of treatment of a suspect already in custody is criminal, like manslaughter.
Ramos let loose on the guy? Where in the video shows Ramos letting loose on the guy? Trying to put the handcuffs on a combative dude?
Yeah, Benjamin mojado pendejo,
Honor, to the service people I know and admire is a lot more important than, any pension, trial, or uniform.
does this organization investigate police crimes? http://www.occrimestoppers.org/
One of the contributing factors that attributes direct responsibility on Ramos for Manslaughter , Judge Froeberg wrote, is the fact that Ramos stood there, while Kelly was breathing irregularly and showing great loss of blood, and did nothing to direct medical personell to help Kelly. He stated that it didn’t take a medical degree to see Kellys condition but common sense that everybody possess would be a factor. If that is the case, why didn’t any of those other officers direct medical personell to Kelly? Should the two officers be back out on the streets without as much as an appolgy from the department? Why did “captain Hughes” tell those other officers “good Job ” at the post beating debriefing later that night?
The other corrupt cops need to be fired and be criminally charged for allowing Kelly to be publicly executed. This has to be acted on before they exit out on early disability pensions.
If that is the case all 6ix should be charged with not helping Kelly. Ramos was not the only one there. Infact shortly after Cicinelli arrived he was out of the picture completely.
The OCDAs Office is where the responsibility lies (belongs) the counties history show great negligence, its a good thing they are not also the Judges. County Officials are very very low on the totem pole, of The Rule of Law.
“…Money is Justice…” -Benjamin Franklin
I expect these animals to be freed. The system is corrupt.
Judge William Froeberg’s written decision is music to my ears.
This Judge is an extremely intelligent and articulate individual who will not be misled by the likes of “Honest John” Schwartz’s bag of trickery..
I have a great amount of respect for this particular Judge, and if the people have ANY chance at getting a fair trial, it’ll be in Judge William Froeberg’s courtroom.
Froeberg is going to set a precendent in this trial.
They will not go free.
Of course the judge wouldn’t dismiss it. There would be total outrage from the citizens and whatever trust is remaining in our justice system would be gone.
They’ll just screw up the prosecution of the case and the cops will get off (or a handslap) that way. It’s already happening. Ramos is charged with 2nd degree while Cicinelli is only charged with manslaughter when Cicinelli did most of the damage to Kelly.
So the legal game playing has already started. Don’t any of you see this?
That does seem bassackwards the way the prosecution brought forth charges, but he DID say the heavier charges were placed on Ramos for initiating and escalating the confrontation. It seems Cicinelli’s charges are weak considering his actions but then again, he is a white boy, although quite deranged.
Hold it a second, Wrong Guy.
Let’s say theoretically that you and a buddy were hanging out together in the hood. A third guy walked down the street and you decided to pick a fight with him. You exchanged words. Then your buddy stepped in an beat him to a bloody pulp and killed him. The cops showed up and charged you with murder and him with manslaughter. How would you feel?
If you read the Judge William Froeberg’s decision, you’ll see that the Judge believes that Manny Ramos acted with “implied malice”.
Malice is when a defendant ‘acts with wanton disregard for human life, or does an act that involves a high degree of probability that it will result in death,’ he acts with malice aforethought.”
Under California murder law, Penal Code 187 (a), malice may be express or implied.
Express malice means that you specifically intend to kill the victim. Judge William Froeberg stated that he thought that Manny Ramos acted with “implied malice”.
/ Malice is implied when: (a) The killing resulted from an intentional act; (b) The natural consequences of the act are dangerous to human life; and (c) The act was deliberately performed with knowledge of the danger to, and with conscious disregard for, human life.
This is why Manny is being charged with the more serious crime is because in layman’s terms, “Manny Ramos started it, and Jay Ciccinelli finished it”.
In criminal law, the defendant who initiated the act,Ramos, is the one that legally culpable/responsible for whatever happens as a result of his/her intial actions.
Under California Penal Code 187, second-degree murder is also willful but is not deliberate and premeditated. Second-degree murder is any murder that isn’t defined as first-degree murderhich
That is really something how they all say, the DA and Media. I am gonna fuck you up but never say, If you dont cooperate. Even Foeberg forgot that part. There is different lingo that an officer can use that he can get away with than a normal person on the street. It’s called verbal judo to make a person comply. It is trained in all police departments. Dont worry it will come out in the trail and people who allowed this at the Fullerton Police Department will be called to testify. Any judge that is under T-Rack is going to deny anything that is thrown their way. They are all looking out for themselves…
Fullerton Lover, I don’t care what Froeberg said. I will care what the jury says. Many of you have forgotten the last part of Ramo’s quote “These fists are going to F you up……IF YOU DON’T DO AS I TELL YOU”. That will make all the difference in the world and the jury will refuse to convict for 2nd degree. Not sure if they can convict of a lesser charge.
Personally, I think the DA flubbed it up bigtime and will lose in court – regardless of what Froeberg says. That’s my bet.
“IF YOU DON’T DO AS I TELL YOU”.
Let me get this right….If a cop makes this statement, they can kill you? HOLY SHIT!!!!!! Is that written as a FPD process? I guess there’s going to be alot of dead people……
What a stupid statement.
I saw Kelley try and comply, but when your sick and scared, humans do not always follow directions. But, the FPD has proven they are not human.
Yes a cop has the right to say whatever he wants in order to make the person listen. And believe me it will come out in the trial. You have to convince 12 people that Kelly was this great guy. Good luck. Any Orange County judge is not going against the DA. They would be stupid if they did. Everyone knows that.
How does what you say in your first sentence relate to the concept of “reasonable standard”?
As to your third sentence, it doesn’t matter whether or not Kelly Thomas was a “great guy” – what matters is what happened to him at the hands of the accused (former) officers and (hopefully) any jurors will understand that and act accordingly without bias toward either side.
I also disagree that an OC judge will not go “against the DA”; on what do you base your belief? Please be specific.
Thank you for your time, I know you consider it to be valuable.
CG, you have to admit. It made NO SENSE for the DA to charge Ramos with 2nd degree and Cicinelli with only manslaughter. There was NO LEGAL LOGIC to that. It will only HURT the prosecution’s case. And they MUST have known that going in. They are LAWYERS afterall who are supposed to KNOW the LAW!!
I agree with you Pittbull!!
You have said it all “Intentional act”. Like saying he went there with the intent to kill. You and Froeberg are so wrong…
Hey MICKEY HALLER, you lying disingenuous sadistic immature fool, your attempting to confuse, 2nd Degree with 1st, he was charged with 2nd.
I am just repeating what your buddy Fullerton Lover said. Learn to read. Fuck face.
You said before, about a year and a half ago.
MICKEY, your PSYCHOSEXUALITY is back. 🙁
Your scenario about me hanging out with someone is not the same as Cicinelli pulling up after the violence was already in motion for a few minutes. But using your scenario nonetheless, I would feel like I’ve been done an injustice. Either way, in this FPD mugging, Cicinelli should have received 2nd degree murder for his wild ape-like actions.
Sad to say people lack the intelligence to understand that this is already squashed.
“Don’t any of you see this?”
Yes, some of us do. I posted 18 months ago my suspicion that the case was designed to fail. Cicinelli was undercharged. And the other three should have been charged with manslaughter.
And there is that obvious evidence. Their own camera sittin atop that pole which captured it all!
Na na na na..Na na na na..Hey hey ey..!
Not so fast..Froeberg says in his report that Ramos was on top of Kelly, Ramos was never on top of Kelly. He says Ramos was on top of Kelly towards the end. Ramos was holding Kellys legs towards the end and was relieved by an other officer and was not in the video at the end. Froeberg is to chicken to make a decision. Who do you think his boss is and can get rid of him…T-Rack. Also Froeberg’s wife works at the DA’s office. Do you think he wants to ruin it for her. Froeberg said let the jury decide if this was excessive force or not. Why cant he decide? Barnett and Schwartz are not stupid. This was expected. This decision is going to hit Froeberg in the face. Did he really see the video. Cause in his report there is discrepencies.
What about this video. These animals are on tape and nothing will happen here. The animals are out on paid leave until this is covered up. PEOPLE ARE STUPID.
This is why we are here. The abuse has to stop.
Wrong guy wake up. Even video cams on their patrol cars record acts of violence and they want and then depart on early disability pensions. CAMERAS MEAN NOTHING. The sadists do what they want.
Cameras do mean Something. Video footage will not change things overnight, but it is an important part of the solution.
Yes good thing for the camera. It showed everyone the way Kelly behaved that night.
How does a dead person behave Mickey Haller?
He wasnt dead when he acted like an asshole.
I pray for each and every son or daughter of a Fullerton police officer that’ll eventually bring themselves to watch that city owned video camera’s recording of one of their parent’s partners cold and callous actions towards a shirtless and homeless mentally ill man.
Kids get a break from domestic violence that night if they’re lucky.
Any kid of a Fullerton Police Officer would tell you, that is his parent doing his job and a dumb bum not cooperating. Why dont you ask Kelly’s parents where they were all these years? His mom got a million, so she is good. His father hadnt seen him in 5 years, now he wants more than a mil…Shame on you!!
The Judge directly contrdicts “your version ” of kelly Thomas’s level of co-operation.
What do KellyThomas’s parents have to do with the way that these children’s parents treated a shirtless 137 pound mentally ill homeless person?
Shame on me?
For what? Asking that God provide comfort and solace to the innocent children of callous murderers?
Hey Micky, all Ron Thomas wants is to teach your murderous cop friends a lesson. You know, the commandment that says “thou shalt not kill.”
No you are wrong. All he wanted was $$$$.
Mickey you don’t understand. If settlements were removed from the cop pension fund the abuse would be non existence. We the taxpayers take the hit.
I wish she had held out and penalized the city of fullerton for 50 million. Maybe the residents would wake up and replace corrupt fullerton police dept.
How do you know the exact amount of Ron Thomas’ monetary request? Do you have inside information that you are withholding from the lawyers and city council?
Well they dont see it that way. Callous individuals are you ffffers who have no clue and talk out of your asses. And about Kelly’s coperation, we all know he was a jerk and fought the cops. And I am sure a jury will see that. Ooops moderation?
Callousness is defined as a lack of empathy.
Do you honestly believe that jurists will be swayed once they watch and listened to the city tape to believe that the FPD acted without malice?
Note that in the Judge’s opinion that he wasn’t to happy that anyone from the FPD didn’t direct the paramedics to Kelly Thomas lying in a pool of blood until after their own superficial scratches were tended to.
SPEAKING OF PAEAMEDICS THEY SHOULD BE FIRED AND CRIMINALLY PROSECUTED FOR NOT IMMEDIATELY TREATING A DYING MAN IN A POOL OF BLOOD. HOPE THEY NEVER RESPOND TO MY MEDICAL EMERGENCY. MAGGOTS
Kinda hard to treat someone when the 3 pigs are showing off their boo-boos. If you went to the Pre-Lim, you would have heard the Paramedics weren’t informed of Kelly’s injuries at all.
You know R. D., I’ve thought about that same statement that the Captain/Paramedic made at the preliminary hearing, and it did/does make me wonder if the fire department had/hadn’t received a call that Kelly Thomas had been severely beaten, and if so, why didn’t the paramedics seek him out upon arrival at the crime scene instead of immediately tending to the police officer’s superficial wounds/scratches and neglecting an ashen Kelly Thomas for a couple of minutes upon arrival?
The paramedics knew exactly why they wrere going there. Dipatched advised them that it was for the combative suspect. So the hell with the combative suspect, lets take care of the officers first. That is the way it is always done. In the tape you can hear Cicinelli calling for paramedics.
OC Fire Dispatch says very little, they always take the direc tion of PDs
For their safety and as a matter of habit.
What was that line by Ciscinelli? Oh yeah: “We ran out of options so I got the end of my taser and I probably…I just start smashing his face to hell.”
This quote is from the updated audio transcript from the city video. Admission of guilt, not standard police procedure.
The paramedics knew why they were going there stop your ignorance.
Ciscinelli knew he was guilty of mayhem. Stop your ignorance Dickey.
A lot of actions infer guilt, like the attacks on the truth and anyone and everyone, its just plain paranoia.
I didnt say if Cicinelli was guilty or not butthead. I just said that Cicinelli called for the paramedics.
Hey Rotten Dick, all this time and you still cant spell Cicinelli. What an idiot.
Actually the paramedics should be sued also by Garo Mardrossian representing the Thomas family. Another large lawsuit to suck dry the Fullerton City Finances that could be used to rebuild roads or for pensions for firemen. Too much good ol boy network is not a good thing in Fullerton.
Froeberg just copy and pasted what T-Rack said. No muscle.
The murder of Kelly Thomas has yielded a production called “smoke and mirrors in the fog” It is telling how they throw us bones that don’t even fit in our mouths.
The F you up, line would not be so bad if he didnt needlessly keep yelling stop resisting stop resisting!
(VERY VERY BAD “FPD TRAINING”)
The charges were way before the video was released, but there were many released witness statements, evidence, and highly suspicious events. All amidst the WORST SHAMEFUL COVERUP, I can recall in any Murder Case.
“The City where the Mafia dress like Police”
“Bullies in Blue”
“Full Metal Fullerton”
“PD evacuated because of a bomb”
“Just like Saddahms men”
Where does someone find it in Hong Kong? Cause it is not around here.
My question is in response the Truthseeker.
“… is a literary device in which virtue is ultimately rewarded or vice punished, often in modern literature by an ironic twist of fate intimately related to the character’s own conduct…” -Wikipedia
You are correct, We will see these two back in power with back pay awarded.
The DAs has set this case up to fail. The DA needs the corrupt cops to support his political ambitions. That’s part of the DAs deal for squashing this case.
Win or loose this case. The DA looks like the good guy.
All financial settlements are paid by the city. We the taxpayers take the hit. The cops have the last laugh.
EXTRACT ALL COP SETTLEMENTS FROM THE CORRUPT COP PENSION FUND AND SEE HOW FAST THE CORRUPT UNION COPS START RATTING ON THEIR UNION BROTHERHOOD.
Wolfe, should see many years in the slammer after the jury sees his cowardly and vicious blow he gave to Kelly Thomas’ leg, which in turn caused Kelly to run and the thug cops to start their beatdown. Wusses!
Wolfe may claim that the blow to his leg was by the books since a blow can be seen as a allowable tactic when used while trying to handcuff a suspect.
The “Greg” Diamond defense.
Now, “Fred” — we’ve already established that you don’t actually give a damn about the homeless.
Yes, Wolfe will (not “may”) claim that in his defense, because it’s true. Seriously, let’s pretend for a moment that Kelly was really guilty of something, since the same rules of engagement would apply. Do you really mean to argue that a cop can’t try to knock someone who is fleeing arrest down with a baton? What’s your alternative — shooting them or letting them go no matter what they’d done?
“Greg” have you landed employment yet or will we have to put you in the homeless shelter?
I’m self-employed (and using my own real name here, “Fred,” as you are not, so your use of scare quotes is lame) and live with my wife and the youngest two of our kids in a nice 3-bedroom apartment in an area that we like. So, no homeless shelter for me right now, but thanks for thinking of me! You can now turn that admirable regard for others to actual homeless people around here.
“Greg” I love how you assume everybody other than you is using a pseudonym becacuse you are so brave and upstanding.
Pimping your “family” again? Lame.
Lots of people know me by my real name. I’ve asked around; no one seems to know a real human being in the Fullerton area named “Fred Alcazar.” So, your point what … what, exactly?
joe what else is new? the system is corrupt. keep paying those beasts big state sanctioned disability pensions.
I can agree with the charges. Crimes under the color of authority are far far more severe and the punishments are much higher.
Those under the color of authority, are afforded very many privileges, at least some are given murder and serious charges in OC.
OCDA Rauckaucus charged and inprisoned Ex OC Sheriff, against all expectations.
“…But there is good news. Technology helps us avoid clumsy government. Developments like the Internet bring us what I call “Freedom 2.0.”
Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales – who cites Hayek as an inspiration for creating Wikipedia – tells me about how the fewer rules he imposed on the site, the better it did. Economist Ed Stringham argues that the Internet proves we don’t need much government regulation…”
“Jackie Chan calls America ‘most corrupt country in the world’
Chan, is famous in the United States for such action movies as ‘Rush Hour’ and ‘Rumble in the Bronx’
He lashed out at the United States and blamed the country for the financial crisis that is sweeping the globe”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2261567/Jackie-Chan-calls-America-corrupt-country-world.html#ixzz2HtSFrkDm
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With regulators standing down, Google prepares Search 2.0
By David Goldman @CNNMoneyTech January 14, 2013: 5:46 AM ET
“…Google has long claimed — and the FTC concurred — that its recent changes are designed to give users a better, faster search experience. Google’s ultimate goal is to build something like the Star Trek computer, able to directly and instantly answer users’ queries.
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“How does Fullerton CAs, leadership lie?”
“Why is Mickey Haller a Sadistic Fizzy Douche?”
“Why does Jan Flory wear wooden beads?”
“Why is it called Tiajuanaland… the Civic Center?”
I am a fizzy douche cause you dont like what I say? Who gives a shit. Its called freedom of speech and my opinion. Just like you have your opinion and freedom of speech. Does that make you a FIZZY DOUCHE?
I was asking a future answer engine not you lying fool. (Google Search 2.0, an Answer Engine)
Officer diCaprio’s campaign may require you to have your photo taken and tell personal information for the police files in order to stay in the new homeless shelter on state college and walnut.Is this really so the police can better help you or so they might better identify possible suspects when there is a crime being investigated. Before the police department takes your photo make sure they are willing to give their names and photos for public record so that the public can also feel comfortable with their police officers who we hire to work in our community.
I am betting attorney Michael Schwartz is going to get a piece of Danny Hughes ass for his actions in telling his boys “good job” then throwing them under the bus like he did.
I really think FPD brass are going to be on trial as much as his client will be.
Wait and see I guess.
Schwartz is going to blow the lid off FPD’s cover up.
That’s why Barry Coffman and the F.P.O.A are pushing Doug Chafee, Jennifer Fitzgerald, and Jan Flory to hurry up and hire Dan Hughes at tomorrow night’s city council meeting.
Expct for Ben Lira and Ron Thomas to both be at tomorrow night’s meeting to give the Top Ten reasons NOT to hire Dan Hughes BEFORE all of the dirt on him comes out in a public courtroom in a few weeks.
A leader of men should have good eyes not shifty one.
Coffman is a crook when he backs a Chief that threw his own guys under the bus, there is no other explanation.
I ain’t kidding when I say Schwartz is going to hold Hughes responsible before the world on his actions.
Changing reports and all that other crap Lira is talking about is going to be brought out if it happened.
I could be wrong but this shit storm could create more than reasonable doubt in these cops guilt and it’s going to be Hughes fault when all is said and done.
And if the DA don’t know what’s going on they will in a way that’s going to make them look like fools.
Schwartz in no longer with Silver,Hadden&Silver a cop law firm known to cover up for police managment misconduct.
Schwartz just got done kicking a Sheriff’s ass in another department who’s investigators and witnesses perjured themselves countless times. Oh it was ugly.
If Schwartz does that in this trial and I know he will, Ron Thomas is going to be cashing out big time and Ben Lira will be a hero.
I think your right Fullerton Lover, the FPOA is scrambling right now, but it will not help Hughes.
If you have ever seen Michael Schwartz cross-examine witnesses especially ones he thinks are liars and cheats, it is quite impressive and he doesn’t leave any stone unturned.
I have seen him work, read his work countless times.
Dan Hughes will have no ass left when Schwartz is done.
Since Schwartz left that other law firm the guy has had a fire under his butt in going after corrupt police managers.
Wait and see. It will be a fine fireworks show at some point.
I’m actually looking forward to Michael Schwatz’s cross-examination of Dan Hughes in Superior Court.
My only regret is that the FPOA has bought and paid for the votes of Chaffee, Flory, and Fitzgerald, and that they will all vote at tonight’s City Council meeting to make Dan Hughes a generous package to take over as the Chief of Police in Fullerton BEFORE his credibility is blown out of the water in Superior Court.
I would advise them to withold judgement until AFTER the trial, however Barry Coffman and his boys in blue have been crowding the City Council meetings all summer long, and trying to bully and intimidate any councilman who goes against them.
If the people of Fullerton were smart, they would ALL be at tonight’s City Council meeting, asking for the City Council to withold their selection of Chief of Police until after we sort out the allegtions that 17 year veteran of the FPD, Benjamin Lira, speaks about the culture of corruption within the Fullerton Police Department.
Otherwise, the City Council is giving the residents of Fullerton the “bum’s rush” to ensure that Dan Hughes is made Chief of Police, similar to the way that the three recalled City Councilman made Joe Felz the “permanant” City Manager, and even gave him a big severance package before they got recalled, so that he could continue cover all their political asses after they had all been booted out of office.
Awww, so Danny will take a disability retirement instead of facing the Fiery Fullerton City Council!
The paramedics were called during the altercation. Watch the video and you can hear it from Officer Cicinelli and see him using the lapel mic to make the call.
At least be intellectually honest even if you don’t like the police. It is called credibility.
Again you are wrong! When the paramedic was asking the officers if they needed treatment… Officer Cicinelli can again be heard on DAR telling the paramedic “the guy you want to treat is over there!” and pointed to KT.
At least be fair about all this.
Again it is called credibility!!!!!!!
DAR transcripts haven’t been released Hog. Your credibility is shit.
Also, I didn’t know DAR’s could point. Think before you post!
R.D, R.D…The subtitles on the video is the DAR. I am speechless. Just spare us with you intelligence. Thank You.
Then supply the page number on the transcripts! Liar!
RD .. If it’s not on the transcript it’s because the DA left it out. But if you see the tape you will hear it. I am sure you have a copy of the tape you were first in line to get a copy at the pre- lim.
Then why would the paramedic say that he was never told about Kelly Thomas? You’re lying and you know it. That was never said.
Everyone is trying to save their skin..even the paramedics. It will come out in the trial.
CITY COUNCIL IS ALREADY BOUGHT ONLY DISCUSSION WILL BE RAISES FOR ALL OF THEM.
BE REAL NOTHING WILL HAPPEN WITH ANY OF THE CRIMES THAT WILL CONTINUE TO BE COMMITED BY THE CORRUPT COPS IN THIS CITY.
THE FPD OWN THE CITY COUNCIL AND THEY WILL ALL BE GETTING WAGE AND PENSION INCREASES.
KELLY’S DYING IN A POOL OF BLOOD AND PARAMEDICS DON’T SEE HIM.
THE PARAMEDICS NEED TO BE CRIMINALLY PROSECUTED BEFORE THEY GO OUT ON DISABILITY PENSIONS.
Blame everyone but the murderers. The paramedics did an outstanding job once he saw Kelly lying on the ground. Maybe if the FPD would have told them earlier, Kelly would be alive today. So rot in prison FPD6!
Another outstanding observation RD. AAHH only three were charged?
Blatantly wrong wrong and wrong again as you trolls always are.
Maybe going to church preying to the good Lord (not Satan 🙁 ), and following, codes, ethics, oathes, and the rule of law are more your thing, than this fancy internet stuff. 🙂
“If you went to the Pre-Lim, you would have heard the Paramedics weren’t informed of Kelly’s injuries at all. ”
That is what they said, take it for what it is worth. If this is true, those specific Paramedics all need to be retrained / reassigned, that is a pretty LARGE blunder for their line of work.
He’s 20 year veteran of the FFD, and a Captain to boot.
T-Rack did his best to cut off the testimony of the paramedic at the pre-lim and of the Fullerton Officer Mike Chosek, when Chosek attempted to testify to the training of the officers as to what is allowed, which showed they were within policy.
Just another attempt to delay the inevitable. If they had any pride or morality they’d confess to their crimes and serve their time. But criminals and psychopaths are typically concerned only with their own selfish needs.
Brandon: Glad to see you back again, our beacon of light, intelligence, and good sense. I’m your #1 fan. Keep up the good work. Looks like we finally have an enlightened person in Judge Froeberg also.
Ohh Brandon is back with his stupid suggestions and opinions.
Mike Haller is still here with his bullshit. Grow up, and get a life. Only a child would post the crap you continuously post here.
R.D.. go kiss daddy Ron’s ass. Maybe he will throw you a bone when he gets his $900.00.
Ron thomas loves dan hughes, why o why is he not suing danny of all the people he could, oh thats right the deal betwix danny garo and ron, ron needs to get the fuck out of fullerton, he didnt give a shit about his kid, but now when there is money involved, I will pay ron 10 grand if he has one foto of kelly and him with in 13 years of his death…Remember ron…when the FPD called you about kelly…you claimed he was dead to you? O yeah, you pathetic has been -you are a sick sick man, and we all laugh at you and your ambulance chaser, you aint getting anything from the city…you shoulda settled for the 900 thou, you aint getting anymore. Ron Thomas, is a joke.
That joke you call Mr. Thomas will cost the city around $4,000,000. Insurance companies always give lowball first offers. The settlement will be higher if there is an actual trial scheduled or started due to higher legal fees.
My close relative woke during surgery and could feel huge pain. First offer, $40,000, a year later its $700,000 and growing. Those of you that think you know all about civil awards need to do some soul searching as to why you blow off reality and say “you shoulda settled for the 900 thou, you aint getting anymore.” In reality, the joke is on you.
The DA is mediocre at best when he is on trial, why he chose to take this case, was a fuck up on his part, Sharon Kang Shcroeder, glory hole of Mike Shroeder, and the mafia that Tony ROCK hangs with…we have zero chance…Hey good job ROn thomas 18 months later, after you stole a ton of money…you now have a non profit…because we made you..ROn THOMAS is a joke and fucks old ladies while watching the video of kelly being killed…
You make no damn sense…cookooo!!
Tony Racaucus in fullerton on wednsday Jan 23, 12:30 public invited. plan for . get there by 11:45 luncheon at the sizzler
Thanks for the kind words Elaine. I am trying my best to continue to do my small part to fight for justice for Kelly Thomas without letting the defenders of hatred and brutality get the best of me. I just have to remember it’s not my place to judge his murderers. And even though the legal system is a joke when it comes to convicting cops who murder in the line of duty, the egregiousness of this crime may actually result in these perps being put away for awhile. At the very least, they’ll never have the opportunity to kill under the guise of “protecting and serving” again.
@ R.D. Very good point about how anyone would know Cicinelli was pointing to Kelly based on an audio recording. It makes little sense to me to assume a man who just bashed the brains out of an unarmed, handcuffed, citizen who was pinned by numerous officers, gave a shit about him receiving medical treatment. Cicinelli was most likely pointing to Ramos or Wolfe and their scraped knees and elbows.
Wow Bandon, can I believe my ears, did you say pinned? Yes Kelly was being pinned cause he was fighting the officers. No one dies from being pinned. You are starting to reveal your real thoughts.
spoken like a pussy cop who has no self control and beats his wife, can you be MORE typical, why we hate cops, douche bags like you.
You hate cops because you probably had bad contacts with them. Follow rules and don’t break the law and cops will never bother you. It is not hard to be a good citizen. Try it you might like it.
Kelly wasn’t fighting. He was simply trying to avoid the unprovoked beating Manny Ramos had threatened him with. You’d think someone with any knowledge of the law would realize cops cannot threaten to beat an unarmed citizen for their enjoyment.
@ East: He was probably brainwashed to obey authority blindly. We see it a lot in people who don’t learn critical thinking skills. It’s the principle that many religions and government institutions use to ensure they will keep their “sheep” following.
What the fuck ever, Brandon. Give Kelly Thomas a rest. We all can vomit our opinions after the court case is decided. A well played “rupture defense” will hang the jury and all three will probably walk. I doubt John Barnett is as smart as French attorney Jacques Verges (Google him if you don’t know who he is, interesting cat) but considering the DA’s contention that, “it’s pretty much OK to defend yourself if you think a cop is using excessive force,” Barnett doesn’t need to be that smart. No Orange County jury will ever buy into that contention. He’s being tried by an agency that clears cops who shoot and kill unarmed people routinely. Who’s bullshitting who? This has failure written all over it.
1. Tear down all the Kelly’s Corner bullshit from the Transportation Center.
2. Settle with Ron Thomas.
3. Be fucking done with the whole thing.
Listen to John, Brandon, Kelly ruined three lives. They all have a family. He should of cooperated. Officers were asking him just give us you name so we can get out of here. These officers have no money. Maybe that makes you feel better. There you go, Justice for Kelly.
Oh yeah he was really scared. He just got mad cause Ramos didn’t want to see his balls.. Maybe he also liked thee opposite sex. nasty!
Mickey, you must be retired cop or on administrative leave. The three cops have families, sure. But did they think of that? NO. Did Cicinelli, the pile on champion of the video think of his family? No. So get real. Erlichman is right about one thing, settle with Ron Thomas, but I would rather see a civil trial that brings out lots of the info about FPD and practices under the two former captain and chief who sat on City Council. Fullerton needs to have its eyes reopened before the $ are coughed up from the City Water tax balances.
I do not mind your rants but they are so so the same and so so predictable.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, and really wrong again Psycho, you have poor grammar too. Try communicating in exact terms, and grow up.
“It is not hard to be a good citizen. Try it you might like it.”
Good advice to all the FPOA goons.
I am the psycho..that is funny!
“No regard for the police?”
First of all, Ramos, Cicinelli, and Wolfe are not police officers anymore, they are accused criminals.
Second, nobody needs have regard for someone simply because they have a gun and a badge. You may fear them, like you’d fear a Mexican drug cartel, but you have no regard for them until they have proved to be worthy of the badge by the way the treat citizens. Officers whom have no regard for their citizenry are not worthy of any regard.
You should probably have some respect for the uniform and their duty, but sometimes that is the only thing that needs to be respected. The most dangerous thing to a policeman statistically, is them pointing their own gun at themselves and shooting, its indicative of their persona.
HOMICIDES IN THE U.S.
Blunt objects 496
Personal weapons (hands, feet) 726
Who would want to be a police officer now a days having to deal with assholes like you.
@ John Ehrlicman: Just because you’d like the murder swept under the rug, doesn’t mean those of us who care about justice will stop talking about it. And the cowards may walk because the jury will probably be full of old, conservative, white people who were raised in a time when people did not question the actions of cops. Regardless, with have three less murderers to worry about carry a badge and gun forever!
@ Brandon, I don’t want it swept under the rug. My point is that the changes have already taken place. It would be nice to see these guys do some time but it’s not going to happen. Do you honestly think the court and the DA are going to let this become precedent? Why don’t you all “chalk” about the 6,500 men and women killed serving in Afghanistan and Iraq? Those lives are more important than Kelly Thomas’ life. You all couldn’t pull the lever politically as the Council election showed. Most of the citizens don’t care about Thomas or the state of the FPD.
Brandon: Looks to me like Judge Froeberg is one person who is NOT going to blame Kelly’s parents for what happened.
Thats pretty laughable.
If I would be a Jew like you I would say that it is anti-Semitic.
I was just trying to get a rise out of you, Stanley. I’m a Bavarian Catholic. You’re not untermensch and most Slavs are pretty cool.
We Bohemians have saying, Good German is Dead German.
I’m not German. I’m Bavarian.
@ John: And how do you know I don’t mourn or care about the lives of troops? I think any life taken in the line of battle is a tragedy. Especially when our country is not under threat of direct attack (e.g. every war since the American Revolution) The fact that the lives of troops are more valuable than Kelly Thomas’s in your opinion shows you have little regard for the mentally ill or homeless. At least troops have a choice to go into battle and weapons to defend themselves. Kelly had neither.
Brandon, we all get the story. Let’s see what happens in a court of law. To date: Three cops no longer with the force, three councilmembers recalled, a new police chief who seems to be making a difference and a new City Council. Those are all positive changes the were a direct result of Kelly Thomas’ unfortunate death. Don’t hold your breath on the outcome of the criminal case. Judge Froeberg isn’t going to be the one to decide it. It will be an OC jury that probably will be easily hung. I think we’re both being a little presumptious. Read my post regarding the NIMBY thread on the homeless shelter and I’ll assume that you actually do appreciate the sacrifices of our soldiers overseas.
That is excellent news Elaine. Typically only sociopaths or sadistic, apathetic types blame the victim and their family members for their own death. Like the Nazis during WW II.
Brandon: Yes — as we’ve concluded previously — some critics are attempting to shift the blame away from the criminals to innocent people. I have written on numerous websites regarding Kelly Thomas that it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to keep a schizophrenic claustrophobic relative off of the ground. Hopefully somewhere some people will finally be informed and educated regarding this fact.
Lots of people would love to make 6 figures with no college Mickey. And your boys ruined their own lives. At least they still have a life to live, even if its light prison sentences followed by long term unemployment.
There you go talking about something you don’t know. These three guys had college degrees. Do you think a cop doesn’t have further schooling? Shit talker!
BRUTALITY Manuel Ramos Youtube Los Angeles Civil Rights Lawyer, LEGALEASETV.COM
Jan. 15 2013
LegalEase TV, youtube
“OCDA says NO MORE!!! WE WILL MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF YOU”
FOUND A LINK TO KTLA Channel 5 Live News, works on Android mobile
NOT SURE IF IT WILL WORK.
KTLA NEWS Live Stream Schedule
4am-10am Morning news
1pm-2pm News at 1
6pm-7pm News at 6
10pm-11pm News at10
Trial for ex-Fullerton police charged in Kelly Thomas beating set for June
Ben Bergman and Ed Joyce | January 18th, 2013, 10:30am
“A judge Friday in Santa Ana refused to dismiss charges against two former Fullerton police officers charged in connection with the beating death of a homeless, mentally-ill man.
Ex-Fullerton police officers Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli face felony charges in the beating of Kelly Thomas. They were among six officers that struggled with Kelly Thomas at the Fullerton Transportation Center…”
What were their degrees in?
@John: Where is the link to the NIMBY post? I agree that it is disconcerting to see so many people, myself included, who don’t do enough to help the homeless. But none of us murdered a homeless man, except Ramos, Cicinelli, and Wolfe, and the other three cops who held him down and refused to stop the murder.
It’s post number 141 on the “We Get Mail” thread.
Sadly, the sadistic cops will be back on the streets of Fullerton with full back pay and PAYBACK.
Not gonna happen Benny. From what I understand, they quit instead of being fired.
No they were fired. They are fighting it.
Keep dreaming J.C 😉
@ Elaine: It is so sad to see people who continue to blame the Thomas family for Kelly’s murder. Those blaming the family fail to recognize the fact Kelly was a grown man who made his own decisions. Or that you cannot have someone committed or forced to take medication unless they are a threat to themselves or others. You’d think these cops and cop relatives would have basic understanding of the law. Also, regardless of whether or not the Thomas family did an outstanding job of raising Kelly, they were not the one’s who beat an unarmed innocent man to death for kicks. I don’t see anyone on hear questioning what kind of parents teach their sons to threaten to f!ck someone up with their fists, bash in heads with a taser, or ignore someone’s pleas to stop killing them while you continue beating them and smothering them to death. While I would bet the Thomas family instilled more morals in Kelly than the Ramos, Cicinelli, Wolfe, Hampton, Craig, or Blatney families did in their sons, it’s a moot point since the parents are not responsible for their grown son’s actions. I totally agree with you regarding educating people about mental illness, especially cops and first responders. You’d think as much as these officers make they could enroll in a few extra classes about how to deal with the mentally ill. And I know there are some very well trained, compassionate cops out there. Just none of the Fullerton 6 or the cops on here who defend them.
Brandon: Hopefully there are more people out there who finally “get it” after numerous attempts by some people to educate people about this.
@ Elaine: Good question about the degrees. I think he meant a nine month degree from the academy. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it hardly warrants a 6 figure salary.