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Tow Racket Leads to Yet Another FPD Lawsuit

A few weeks ago we told you all about the Fullerton Police Department’s attempt to protect the city’s tow monopoly through harassment of AAA tow truck drivers.

Now the OC Weekly is reporting that a suit has been filed against the FPD claiming that police officers harassed and intimidated tow truck drivers for competing against the city’s preferred tow vendor.

Read the lawsuit

The suit alleges that drivers from a Bob’s Towing were singled out and cited over 40 times for frivolous reasons while other companies’ drivers went untouched.  Officers Hagen and Ledbetter are accused of turning off their audio recorders for “off the record” conversations constituting harassment. Drivers have quit and left the city in fear.

Is the FPD violating these folks’ constitutional right to equal treatment under the law? That seems to be par for the course.

Of course, if the PD has been systematically denying it’s own citizens the benefits of fair competition, then this has undoubtedly caused drivers to be left stranded while AAA scrambles to find tow truck drivers willing to face the FPD.

And then there’s that big question we keep having to ask: Can a single month go by without the FPD drawing taxpayers into a major lawsuit?

107 thoughts on “Tow Racket Leads to Yet Another FPD Lawsuit

  1. I don’t know. I’ll look forward to seeing the response. This sure looks to be more about losing a bid than about harassment. However, if the harassment is real then we clearly have a problem.

    1. Losing a bid? What are you talking about, Chris? The issue here is selective enforcement of the City’s haul route ordinance – looking the other way for friendly or politically connected towers.

      1. I guess I should have been more specific when I used the word “this”. The post is about selective enforcement. My point was that this lawsuit is not about selective enforcement. It is about a claim of unfair practices in letting a contract. I believe it is important to be intellectually honest about what the purpose of the document is.

          1. Not enough of it. I stand corrected. The first cause of action is about unfair opportunity to provide services. However, the 2nd cause of action seeks an injunction against the harassment. My only point here was that my reaction to this suit is that it’s about lost opportunity to earn a living more-so than about ending the harassment. On 2nd reading I would give those two point equal billing. I raised the issue because I want to continue to evaluate assertions with an unbiased eye. I do not wish to simply assume that all accusation are true because past ones have been.

    1. I’ll say it again and again, Fullerton PD is rotten to the core, make no mistake Hughes is and has always been a part of that core just like his predecessor Hamilton.

      At least dirtbags like Goodrich and Dick Jones let you know where they’re coming from but dirtbags like Quirk-Silva, Hughes and McKinley sweet talk you while screwing you over.

    1. I believe it’s the cue ball who now sits where Hughes use too near Felz and next to Lucinda the City Clerk…. At the city council meetings.. I could be wrong though..

      1. Erin- the cue ball, wasnt a replacement, I asked that night..he just sat there,I guess the only open seat, he was one of the newbies..

  2. Boy, I am not impressed by the lawsuit. The petition seems hurriedly written and lacking. That said, I hope they prevail, but they’re going to have to prove all the allegations and I’m sure the court isn’t going to issue a writ granting them immunity from traffic stops. I hope the legal writing improves before trial. 90% of writs are denied.

  3. I said it before and I will say it again. Fullerton is full of problems and those who are Fullerton boosters need to take a closer look at the city problems. Turning off the DAR recorder should be an offense coupled with a 2 week unpaid leave! DARs should never be turned off. Turning off DARs regularly was the modus operandi of one officer Albert Rincon who cost Fullerton Taxpayers a $350,000 settlement to two young ladies who are not like you ladies out there. No DAR was on when some guy decided to hang himself in jail who was never thought to be suicidal. (More Costs to the city of Fullerton taxpayer!) Tuco can go on and on, but know what? All this is known to our new Acting Chief of Police who has done NOTHING to change the DAR rules or enforcement thereof! What a joke!

    1. Was the settlement to not go public on the act of killing. fact the hanging could not be factual for the PUPOSE of the victim shoe strings was a pair of flip flops. Tailoring the storyline to be fairy… And the family settled for a couple million .hush money by Fullerton

  4. Totally agree Tuco. I think that random DAR audits by Field Commanders, with severe consequences for even the first offense, would go a long way in eliminating this problem quickly.

  5. They did put a Video Camera on Rincon, (could be really sick, but…) I would have wireless cameras on all the time, the whole shift.

    About 20 years ago, it was reported that a U.S. satellite could record a Russians conversation while driving down the road, in a limousine. Technically, not hard to believe, even then. I was suprised how much Fullerton had to do with the early satellites and space probes, Especially Science that is not of “The known world”. You find the border of known science in Astronomy.

  6. the cynic in me says no, the FPD like Fullerton’s city council can’t go a week without wasting our tax dollars to buy them (both FPD and city council) out of legal trouble. But why should thse two entities care about settling numerous legal complaints? Its not their money they use to legally settle with those who have a legal case against them. It is the good people of fullerton’s money. so, good people of fullerton, when you set out on your daily drudge to earn a dollar to support you or your family, remember those who live in the cushy hills of Fullerton have the ability to stretch out their arms directly into your wallet.

  7. Kevin :
    Boy, I am not impressed by the lawsuit. The petition seems hurriedly written and lacking. That said, I hope they prevail, but they’re going to have to prove all the allegations and I’m sure the court isn’t going to issue a writ granting them immunity from traffic stops. I hope the legal writing improves before trial. 90% of writs are denied.

    What you read is just enough information presented to get the case into court and pass muster so defendants CANNOT get the case dismissed before it goes forward.

    The plaintiffs clearly state a cause of action.

    VERY common and basic written law suit. YOU never want to tell the defendants EVERYTHING you know before you get off the ground.

    More than enough information in this suit.

    Having ONE TOW company have the monopoly on towing in the City for 50 YEARS. LOL!!!, you won’t need to dig to deep to see how much corruption is involved there. Such a monopoly BREEDS corruption.

    The second major issue is this company’s trucks FAILING inspection, a WEEK after the CHP inspected them and passed them? A major red flag for harrasement.

    Then the citations. Drivers being detained for up to an HOUR? PLEASE!!!! With customers vehicles in tow?

    Now besides campaign contributions as mentioned by someone, one might look a little deeper into the relationship.

    Are city employees, specifically the cops getting FREE towing if they need it?

    Is anyone getting GREAT deals on vehicles being sold by the tow company who sells cars on lien sales?

    The traffic cops who are impounding cars from drivers who are unlicensed or driving while suspended is making this tow company BIG BUCKS.

    Hundreds of thousands a year depending how many cars are getting pulled in.

    If this tow company is allowed to yank cars out of apartment complexes for illegal parking and doing so with impunity, then even more money for someone.

    So who is getting who’s back scratch.

    And who’s name do we see in this issue, DAN HUGHES AGAIN.

    The COURTS can stop FPD from writing tickets to ONE class of people or business in they are doing it in the manner they are. It’s call discrimination at it’s FINEST!!!

    This case need not be proven “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

    The plaintiff needs to tip the scales in their favor by 51% or more to prevail.

    This is indeed another glaring scandal in the making.

    A long history of potential corrupt that many of you already believe exsists within the City.

    1. I have a labor traffic scam of corruption involving 10 years of applying the term The plaintiff needs to tip the scales in their favor by 51% or more to prevail. I have .I need a panel of batteries to hear the facts.

  8. I have spend a good majority of my career in traffic. I have worked with dozens of tow company’s.

    Working in a large county like San Bernardino, I have worked in several city’s both large and small.

    ALL the city’s had at least 5 two companies on rotation. Each week another company came up on rotation to get a piece of the pie.

    The criteria for getting on rotation, the company had to have a SECURE facility to store vehicles, the ability to respond to calls within 15 minutes if in the city, or 30 minutes if responding within the County area.

    The company had to have been certified by the CHP, and keep their trucks equipt within the standards of the vehicle code.

    Not in the 20 years did I ever hear or see any PD or Sheriff’s department put ANY tow company on the misery program as far as tickets go.

    Some drivers were cited for speeding, that’s for sure.

  9. So what is the quid pro quo? Cops won’t start doing people special favors for no damn reason. So what are these sops getting out of it.

    Another black eye.

    And Danny Boy is proud of his cesspool, er department.

  10. Now if your still in doubt, go ask the Traffic Sergeants in the cities surrounding Fullerton and see how many tow company’s they use.

    Go ask the local CHP office how many they use. Some tow company’s have a vast area they work in because they have a huge fleet of trucks to handle many tasks.

    Towing for a public agency is a VERY lucrative business. Add AAA sign on the side of your trucks, even more money, and a little certification your a legit company.

    One of the very reasons agencies use several companies is too avoid accusations just like you see here.

    There surely is fierce compitetion in the tow industry and a few whiners too. Give everyone a piece of the pie and most are happy.

    The boys with the most toys (tow trucks) win out on the big business.

  11. Mr. Peabody :
    So what is the quid pro quo? Cops won’t start doing people special favors for no damn reason. So what are these sops getting out of it.
    Another black eye.
    And Danny Boy is proud of his cesspool, er department.

    Well one glaring issue here might be the campaign contributions.

    Behind the scenes in the darkness, WHO knows for sure. Could someone be being slipped an envelope with cash inside after a nice meal at the local club, YES!!!

  12. The little tow companies wishing to get more business from public agencies will continue to buy more equipment to add to their fleet of trucks. Tow trucks are VERY expensive.

    An example is large flat bed rigs that can handle large vehicles, ie motor homes, etc.

    The boys who have the BIG diesel flat bed’s or lift trucks, who can handle 18 wheelers make big money.

    The tow companies who have large inside storage facilities available where they can store cars involved in crimes, that SCI can inspect also get the business.

    A lift where vehicles involved in fatal crashes can be hoisted into the air for inspection by a team of guys from the Major Accident Investigation Unit.

    If a tow company has all these things available, they will get the big business over time.

    Do tow company’s cry and bitch about each other getting more business than the other YES!!!

    The Traffic Sergeant usually deals with all that to keep the peace if at all possible.

    Cops who are having problems with a particular company always being late or lacking the proper equipment are dealt with too.

    At some point they could be taken off rotation.

    So my point is this towing stuff is BIG BUSINESS and must be kept clean across the board and transperancy is IMPORTANT!!!

    1. This is not about getting business. This is about:

      1) being able to pursue your business without harassment

      2) some businesses getting preferential treatment (see also standard Redevelopment practice.

  13. Anti Corruption Unit: Thank you for helping us out here in Fullerton with all of your expertise on these matters. We seem to be a little challenged here with transparency in our local government, and we sincerely appreciate any and all of your thoughts as to how to change that M.O. in the future.

    1. The spelling nazi comments make you look desperate, being you can’t critic any of his comments you go after the spelling…so mature.

      Most of us adults here know that if the main point has been expressed, who the heck cares about the spelling? It isn’t like we are writing freaking job resumes. Get over it.

      I am with FL, thanks for your perspective.

      1. Cheap shots are Fullerton’s best way …they make the defense question their own ability interrupting to correct proper English. Empty are the bold speeches of crap.

  14. Anon-ista :
    Too bad his area of expertise doesn’t extend to proper spelling.

    …and when I see response like your own, I know that ACU is hitting the nail on the proverbial head, and is making valid points that make the status quo squirm like the snakes that they are.

  15. Anon-ista :
    Too bad his area of expertise doesn’t extend to proper spelling.

    LOL, again I type to fast and apologize. If I was preparing official reports I would be concerned about this, but since I am not, and others who give me a pass on that, I appreciate it.

    But if that’s all you have to say. I won’t be to concerned.

    @Fullerton Lover.

    I have learned if your going to take the system or an individual to task on any issue, or just an all out battle, you must know what you are talking about. You will never be 100% correct, but who is?

    My father in law who was a retired business man, was a political watch dog in the City of Ontario.

    He would attend council meetings, take his 3 minutes to speak on a given topic, allow certain city council members to lie or sidestep his questions.

    He left the meetings, spent countless hours doing legal research, gathering documents.

    He would return to the next meeting, and hand those he caught lying their asses on a silver platter. More often the press was there. They picked up on it and BINGO, the poop hit the fan for those involved.

    It was a hobby for him, and he was very good at the game. Of course the city council thought he was a big PITA, but feared him like no other.

    When he passed on, the local paper did a respectful write up on him for his resolve in everything he did. He surely earned my respect and admiration of a force to be respected on matters of public concern.

    As a cop who was challenged and put under the microscope more than a few time after arresting the elite connected citizens who thought they were above the law, and had a serious “sense of entitlement” did I truely learn about the GAME.

    I knew I needed to know the rules BETTER than those who like to play with me, and put me under the microscope whenever they chose too.

    I have always been told, knowledge is power. I do believe that.

    But making a decent argument is the key.

    1. Thank goodness for us that the apple didn’t fall too far from the tree. Your father should be very proud of your integrity.

  16. Didn’t a RFP for towing go out sometime last year from Fullerton PD to try and find a new tow company to hire for the Fullerton contract? Whatever happened to those results?

  17. fullerton lover :

    Anon-ista :
    Too bad his area of expertise doesn’t extend to proper spelling.

    …and when I see response like your own, I know that ACU is hitting the nail on the proverbial head, and is making valid points that make the status quo squirm like the snakes that they are.

    A clear inidicator for a warrior is when the messenger is attacked versus the message itself.

    When it becomes constant, POUR the coal to the fire, your on the right track.

    You will see the same trend in the courtroom too.

    For the trolls on the internet, simply challenge them to a face to face and see how much resolve they have.

    For me it’s as much fun as a high speed chase down the freeway drinking my coffee and eating a donut at the same time, not crashing my unit, and catching the bad guy. It truely takes practice.

  18. I used to work in the towing industry, and I know a secret code from FPD t anaheim fullerton tow, when FPD impounds a car somtimes if they dont like their arestee they make eye contact with the tow driver and kick the car, that is the signal for the tow driver to take anything in the car they want or damage it. all the time, corupt

  19. ACU. You finally provided good facts and real facts. I was also a traffic guru in my time and handled the RFPs, tow companies, etc. You provided factual and complete info for once. Kudos. 🙂

    If you look at most So Cal cities, they have all been sued by a mad tow company owner for not being on the rotation. Almost all are thrown out. They want to be on the rotation but don’t want to fulfill the criteria on the RFP and tow contract, and then claim they are being discriminated against.

    It is odd Fullerton has one row company if that is true. I wonder how many tows they average a year. Maybe it’s minimal. Maybe it’s large and they have the OT fund attached to the customers bills as well. Many unknowns.

    The harassment is simple to prove. I think it’s being exaggerated as most initial lawsuit filings are. We will see if they can bring in the 40 plus cites and prove the delays. I predict it’s 90% BS as most lawsuits against cities. This lawsuit has one goal. Attempt to settle by allowing this tow company onto the rotation.

    By the way, tow companies are the most scandalous, law breaking businesses around. They steal cars, gouge customers, and are just plain dirty. The only clean ones are the police tows. Private property tow companies commit crimes daily. Dirty. Nasty. Just like politics.

    1. Cheap shots are Fullerton’s best way …they make the defense question their own ability interrupting to correct proper English. Empty are the bold speeches of crap.

  20. The Council needs to address this problem now. This whole thing STINKS as usual.

    Fullerton PD have been in bed with the SAME SINGLE TOWING PROVIDER for 50+ years. Bankhead has been in on it with his buddy Harry at Anaheim / Fullerton Tow.

    Fullerton is the ONLY city in OC who uses one single Police towing provider–and their tow yard is in ANAHEIM, not Fullerton!

  21. Anonymous :
    I’ll say it again and again, Fullerton PD is rotten to the core, make no mistake Hughes is and has always been a part of that core just like his predecessor Hamilton.
    At least dirtbags like Goodrich and Dick Jones let you know where they’re coming from but dirtbags like Quirk-Silva, Hughes and McKinley sweet talk you while screwing you over.

    ~and the crowd roars~

  22. Nope :
    The Council needs to address this problem now. This whole thing STINKS as usual.
    Fullerton PD have been in bed with the SAME SINGLE TOWING PROVIDER for 50+ years. Bankhead has been in on it with his buddy Harry at Anaheim / Fullerton Tow.
    Fullerton is the ONLY city in OC who uses one single Police towing provider–and their tow yard is in ANAHEIM, not Fullerton!

    I couldn’t agree more but you are smoking something if you think anything is going to change via the current city council or any other city person.agency on the dole. Change will only come with our votes and lawsuits. I hope AAA corporate sues the shit out the city too.

    It appears Fullerton has had corruption as their bed partner as long as I have been alive (and I am really old), nothing new but I am glad it is finally being given the attention it needs.

    While I am certain I don’t agree with each blogger here, I appreciate FFFF as a place to voice our viewpoints and concerns freely.

  23. #32 by Reality Is on February 1, 2012

    ACU. You finally provided good facts and real facts. I was also a traffic guru in my time and handled the RFPs, tow companies, etc. You provided factual and complete info for once. Kudos.

    Just ONCE RI? REALLY? LOL!!!!

    I will submit, until you go face to face with me YOUR credibility is as much in question as mine, at least by a few others view.

    But those others issues I have spoken about, YOU have NOT defeated the message itself with any facts. Your basic response to most of what I have said is, I don’t keep an open mind, or I am biased.

    That still doesn’t set aside what I said.

    YOU have been on this site much longer than I, done more than your fair share of selective and limited commentary for your reasons.

    There is one glaring issue that cannot be set aside.

    You clearly are attached to FPD in some form or fashion. So I might be biased in your view, YOU might be blinded by loyality.

    I DO NOT know anyone from FPD, or have a personal ax to grind with any member there.

    But if you could defeat my message and walk the walk, you would have done so by now.

    The reason you haven’t, is you truely don’t want your identity known and create even bigger problems.

    That in itselfs speaks volumns. (insert smile).

    1. Just curious. How have you made your resume or identification any more clear than I have? I’ve actually said more about myself than you have. You make claims of a long career in LE but where have you provided information to verify that as you claim?

      I’m at meetings and events and other functions often, I haven’t seen you stepping up claiming you are ACU and where is Reality IS? 🙂

      I could have no connection to Fullerton PD at all and might not know anyone there, which would put us in similar positions with opposite views right?

      I’ve been walking the walk everyday. You try to bash me by saying I’m a coplicker, haven’t been in the trenches, hide from calls, teach but don’t act, etc. If you knew, you would know i’ve been deep it in for years and done everything possible in every field of LE. Yes, I still enjoy every minute of it.

      I’m around FFFF often. I enjoy reading the posts. I enjoy interacting with people like you. I enjoy the banter, I enjoy the insults. The facts are that Tony and Chris delete all of my posts as fast as then can when I post. They miss one here and there, but that’s about it. It’s just clear they only want people with the one view on here. That’s fine, it’s their blog. I would think they would want some people from the other side, but they don’t.

      So see ya at the trial and at the upcoming meetings. Going to be a exciting few months in Fullerton for sure.

      I saw some of the PAC questions too. Yes, the PAC is voluntary but it’s automatically taken out of every check. So the guys on leave had it taken out automatically until their checks stopped coming in. The normal amount for smaller PACS is $8.34 per month which puts it under the higher reporting rules for the total yearly amounts. Makes it so the individual in depth information doesn’t have to reported for each person. David Gould isn’t a consultant in most cases, he just files all the proper PAC paperwork for the POA’s.

      I’m sure we will meet sometime ACU. I actually thought you were Tony for a bit, and now I think you are that Cop Car guy, but he was LASO and you claim IE somewhere, so not really sure.

      Have a wonderful day.

      🙂

      1. RI-
        I am guessing- you get deleted, not because you are on the “other” side (as there are plenty on here like that), but because you are criminially insane and its creepy and apalling, for anyone with a soul, to continue to keep/listen to chest beating, ramblings of Hannibal Lector #2

        1. RI, I’m curious if you get deleted because the administrators here are sick of you hogging (oink oink) the comment section of this blog. And that’s reality.

  24. From RI,

    “By the way, tow companies are the most scandalous, law breaking businesses around. They steal cars, gouge customers, and are just plain dirty. The only clean ones are the police tows. Private property tow companies commit crimes daily. Dirty. Nasty. Just like politics”.

    So how many tow company’s in OC, based on your vast experience have been charge with RICO violations for running a criminal enterprise?

    Any recent tow companies or their drivers been indicted for crimes to support this comment? If their is a history, then it should be well known.

    Your 90% of civil lawsuits being bogus against a public entity is also flawed.

    I am sure the City of Fullerton will move for an immediate summery judgement in getting the bogus lawsuit by the tow company set aside.

    If the local cops have not hammered the tow companies with all the criminal misconduct you would have us believe, then there is a good chance the cops are part of the problem versus the solution?

    Police tows are the only clean ones? That would be based again on your personal experience?

    So the tow company in Fullerton who has been operating for 50 years is the CLEAN ONE?

    The one being harrassed is the DIRTY ONE?

    Can I gather all that from you comments?

  25. Now y’all don’t need to seek information from ‘Reality Is’ when you have a more trustworthy ex-LEO like ACU commenting on this wonderful blog.
    RI is obviously a working LEO (likely with FPD) who never provides any substance to his comments; just his cocky ‘smiling face’ saying, “I got one over on y’all.” (Only he probably doesn’t have that Southern drawl that I do).
    Who are y’all gonna believe; a current working LEO or one like ACU that got out of the LEO business due to the corruption?

    Enough said.

  26. BTW, would y’all like to make a wager that this Reality Is character won’t be coming back today.
    When enough of us put him in his place he seems to disappear for a few days like trollies often do.

  27. Wrong Guy :
    It seems it would be difficult to prove the deliberate turning off of the DARs, don’t you think?

    YES, but by now, let’s hope one or more of the tow drivers are using their own recorders. If not they might very well be SOL.

    Taking the many issues talked about on this blog, I would surely hope by now more than a few citizens carry a recorder or video camera with them, or have a good cell phone that does both.

    If not, and you start screaming “police misconduct”, well just understand much of what your saying might fall on deaf ears, or not receive the attention you believe it should.

    A simple point. Where would everyone be if the Kelly Thomas murder was not captured on the pole camera?

    I assure you all, not where we are now.

  28. Dr. Phil :
    BTW, would y’all like to make a wager that this Reality Is character won’t be coming back today.
    When enough of us put him in his place he seems to disappear for a few days like trollies often do.

    I always thought when he wasn’t here posting he was put in the “time out corner” by the admin.

  29. ACU,

    Great advice about the camcorders and audio recorders.
    For quite some time on this blog we have/had a commentor who is an ex-sheriff deputy like you, his moniker is 9c1copcar (?) and I recall his suggestions to Fullerton residents and passer-by to carry all the above as well as a California Penal Code and Vehicle Code handbook. That way when these officers start spouting off their BS, you could hand them the PC book and have them show it to you. That very well may get you a beating by one of these FPD cops(the real stupid ones that is), but I believe the more savvy cops may back off at that point.

  30. Anonymous :

    Dr. Phil :
    BTW, would y’all like to make a wager that this Reality Is character won’t be coming back today.
    When enough of us put him in his place he seems to disappear for a few days like trollies often do.

    I always thought when he wasn’t here posting he was put in the “time out corner” by the admin.

    LOL if it’s Sergeant Andy, maybe his Captian or Lieutenant did.

    Enough propoganda for the day Andy, thanks for being a good employee, now go into your office and close the door.

  31. Anonymous :

    Dr. Phil :BTW, would y’all like to make a wager that this Reality Is character won’t be coming back today.When enough of us put him in his place he seems to disappear for a few days like trollies often do.

    I always thought when he wasn’t here posting he was put in the “time out corner” by the admin.

    ROTFLMFAO!

    Either that or he’s teaching some of his non-sense to Goldenwest Community College students. (perfect spot for an RI smiley face)

  32. So……..let me get this right here. I waited for 2 hours in the broiling sun two years ago, with my carcass of a car waiting to be towed by the very towing company…bros 3- because they have some dick showing contest? O this is rich..I waited and waited and thought really one company can help only one…so I had to evetually call my boss on his day off to help me on Fender st and state college…o this is wrong!they never showed up and I called AAA and said those guys blew. Apparently Customer service didnt address my complaint..ooo shocker.

  33. Wrong Guy :
    ACU,
    Great advice about the camcorders and audio recorders.
    For quite some time on this blog we have/had a commentor who is an ex-sheriff deputy like you, his moniker is 9c1copcar (?) and I recall his suggestions to Fullerton residents and passer-by to carry all the above as well as a California Penal Code and Vehicle Code handbook. That way when these officers start spouting off their BS, you could hand them the PC book and have them show it to you. That very well may get you a beating by one of these FPD cops(the real stupid ones that is), but I believe the more savvy cops may back off at that point.

    The cops started carrying recorders and using video camera’s to COVER their butts in their daily duties. WE too need to do the same if we want to call BS on something.

    Cops love to have a citizen come in and make a false complaint against them.

    Some Watch Commanders just LOVE IT, when they sit the citizens down after listening to their story, and then play the recording of them and the cops incident and the citizens complaint is TOTALLY bogus. The citizens is just lying their butts off. Sorry it does happen a lot actually.

    For some it’s almost as good as sex.

    There are a few cops out there who make a few thousand dollars a year, suing citizens who make false complaints in small claims court.

    I know a Chippy who averaged $8 to 10k a year in doing so. The freakin guy had the procedures down to a science.

    It’s a game for all, COVER YOUR ASS is how you play that game.

    I mean truely, would it not be “priceless” to file a complaint on a cop, he denies it, and YOU pull out your copy of the tape and give it to his boss?

    I can guarantee the kodak moment look would be, “oh shit”.

    NEVER give up the original tape or video, I’d hate to see that disappear or lost in the process. You get my point. (insert smile).

    1. I’m amazed at all the claims of DAR’s being shut off. That’s one thing that should be simple to solve if command staff wants to solve it. The big problem is the same problem with implementing the full time audio video recording. Either have it on full time, no exceptions, or don’t have it at all. If you implement a system that makes the cops turn it on when they can, it allows that loophole that can always be exploited. It’s too hard for cops to always try to hit a button every time they make a contact. Most contacts will be turned on but when it’s safe to do so and when they remember. The new systems are on all the time, but it brings up privacy issues as well and it also brings about a large amount of money for data storage. It obviously doesn’t work the way Fullerton does it. Trash em or make the system work.

  34. ACU, I have to ask for everyone, where or how do we, get information to hand to the Council. “He left the meetings, spent countless hours doing legal research, gathering documents.”

    As for R.I., If you sound Hinky, post hinky comments, have hinky associations, act hinky, feel hinky, mess with ACU, act sadisticly, Have an agenda, and ACU says your FPD, … Your CORUPT.

  35. Lifesaving Service :
    ACU, I have to ask for everyone, where or how do we, get information to hand to the Council. “He left the meetings, spent countless hours doing legal research, gathering documents.”
    As for R.I., If you sound Hinky, post hinky comments, have hinky associations, act hinky, feel hinky, mess with ACU, act sadisticly, Have an agenda, and ACU says your FPD, … Your CORUPT.

    My FIL took on issues such as the “water tax” issues like you folks have here. Other political issues that the paper trails were easy to get through a “public information request”.

    He never needed to attack the cops in Ontario. They did not have these scathing issues facing them like FPD.

    Ontario has a OUTSTANDING union who doesn’t put up with a corrupt Chief. They have an outstanding PD for the most part.

    So my FIL got most of the documents he needed to make his case from the City Clerk.

    Police files are for the most confidential.

    Crime statistics are open for public inspection.

  36. Anonymous :
    Captain Dan Hughes was in charge of traffic, patrol and commercial enforcement before he became chief.

    I am beginning to think your a cop yourself. You seem to drop enough info to suggest you are. Good stuff if one is paying attention.

    GOOD ON YOU!!!!!!! Just don’t post your stuff on a company computer if you are.

    The computer POLICE will nail your butt.

  37. “And your gone
    Gone
    It’s no suprise to me I am my own worst enemy
    ‘Cause every now and then I kick the living shit out of me”

    Brought down by their own, “One hit Wonder” Band/Bar.

  38. AntiCorruptionUnit :

    Anonymous :

    Dr. Phil :
    BTW, would y’all like to make a wager that this Reality Is character won’t be coming back today.
    When enough of us put him in his place he seems to disappear for a few days like trollies often do.

    I always thought when he wasn’t here posting he was put in the “time out corner” by the admin.

    LOL if it’s Sergeant Andy, maybe his Captian or Lieutenant did.
    Enough propoganda for the day Andy, thanks for being a good employee, now go into your office and close the door.

    I meant that the admin here at FFFF had put him in the “time out corner”, but what you say is hilarious, like they would stop their own from spewing their propaganda here? Tthey are probably putting him up to it…or it is a joint effort, probably takes 15 brains on overtime at FPD to come up with one hinky RI post.

  39. @ #58 Karma.

    Trust me in their warped little minds they think they are the real deal when it comes to tackling our comments.

    They are all high fivin in the background. But as of yet, come out of the shadows to fight the real fight.

    I bet a couple of those FPD guys were high fivin after whooping Kelly Thomas too.

    But they too had the Kodak face of “oh shit”, when they realized just how many people actually saw what happened.

    Then dropped their heads when they realized the “pole camera” really captured the moment.

    But FPD thinks they have a plan, and it will work because WE are stupid and they are just too bright.

    As you have seen, RI is the best they have at the end of the day. PATHETIC actually.

    I have dealt with many RI’s who wear bars and stars, I have yet to see one handle their business when one on one, and the playing field is level and NO BACK up is available.

    It can be humbling for those elite attitudes who are seldom challenged.

  40. @ ACU

    I don’t think any of them will ever be humbled, they will die first. Like murders in prison still claiming their innocence as they get strapped to the chair. Evil doesn’t think it is evil.

  41. karma :
    @ ACU
    I don’t think any of them will ever be humbled, they will die first. Like murders in prison still claiming their innocence as they get strapped to the chair. Evil doesn’t think it is evil.

    AMEN!!!

  42. @AntiCorruptionUnit #19–

    Yes, I know. And I’m not that impressed by the complaint. It fails to allege certain things that should be in a petition for writ and the writing is sub-par in my opinion. But I still hope they prevail.

  43. Reality Is :
    It’s a standard copy and paste lawsuit filing. Cities see them everyday.

    KUDOS RI, for ONCE you are 100% correct, and those facts cannot be disputed. (insert smile).

    I see it a little after 8:00 am, drinking your morning coffee, reading the FFFF blog at your desk, going to do a little propoganda work this morning?

    Looking forward to some compelling commentary. (insert smile).

  44. From RI,

    WRONG AGAIN!!!!

    “It’s too hard for cops to always try to hit a button every time they make a contact. Most contacts will be turned on but when it’s safe to do so and when they remember.”

    Pushing the RECORD button should be as simple and easy as unbuckling your seat belt just before you roll into a hot call or pull behind a traffic violator.

    It’s called conditioning YOUR mind.

    Cops should be checking their recorders and changing out batteries everyday as needed, just like checking the weapons to ensure they are loaded before the start of shift.

    Penal Code section 632 gives cops the right to record ANYTHING in the performance of the duties.

    Can you explain the privacy issue to us. I am NOT talking about being called into the Captains or Mayors office for a couseling session that WOULD be a privacy issue. Unless that turned criminal.

    1. Good points ACU.

      As you know, many cops don’t wear seat belts because they feel it locks them down too much in emergency situations. Policy dictates they shall.

      The DAR process and policy needs to be streamlined and updated. Many can be done by voice activation, just as the in car systems are done by the activation of the code 3 lights.

      Privacy issue was the personal portion. Many times all of us, and civilians, engage in conversations with family and friends that can’t be recorded. Just as a personal phone call at work is private, even though the supervisors can ask who they were talking to and a general idea of what it was about.

  45. Reality Is :
    I was back but they deleted my posts and then blocked me again. All good though. See ya at school today.

    Now why would the administrators block or delete your posts when you offer such matter of fact commentary on the life and times of FPD or law enforcement in general?

    That isn’t fair!!!!!!!!!

  46. @ #42 RI,

    I have already explained my resume and where I worked.

    Your resume seems to be teaching others, at least at this point.

    I would not indicate anything as to my resume that I could not back up if challenged by you or anyone else. Been there done that.

    I would not have challenge you if I felt I would look the fool at the end of the day. Been there done that.

    Show up at meetings, ask out loud for RI, enter the lions den, be followed around by some FPD KGB agent? Been there done that, NO THANKS!!!

    I like a level playing field myself with things being equal across the board.

  47. Sorry I mentioned PC 632, the authority for cops to tape record lays in PC 633.

    633. Nothing in Section 631, 632, 632.5, 632.6, or 632.7 prohibits
    the Attorney General, any district attorney, or any assistant,
    deputy, or investigator of the Attorney General or any district
    attorney, any officer of the California Highway Patrol, any chief of
    police, assistant chief of police, or police officer of a city or
    city and county, any sheriff, undersheriff, or deputy sheriff
    regularly employed and paid in that capacity by a county, police
    officer of the County of Los Angeles, or any person acting pursuant
    to the direction of one of these law enforcement officers acting
    within the scope of his or her authority, from overhearing or
    recording any communication that they could lawfully overhear or
    record prior to the effective date of this chapter.
    Nothing in Section 631, 632, 632.5, 632.6, or 632.7 renders
    inadmissible any evidence obtained by the above-named persons by
    means of overhearing or recording any communication that they could
    lawfully overhear or record prior to the effective date of this
    chapter.

    And ONE may tape record or audio tape ANYTHING in a public place as there is NO expectation of privacy when others can see or hear what is going on.

    In the privacy of an office or where there is a clear expectation of privacy is illegal.

    1. I would love to have helmet cams and recorders on all cops on all calls for service, contacts, or stops. Money prevents that at this point. Doing that statewide would solve almost all issues. The equipment and data storage is so expensive. It’s not that bad to record everything and store it, but to hold it for extended periods is the key as you know. Many times, like the Vam case and others, those recordings would be long gone by the time the facts come forward as to any issues.

      1. I think DAR should be 100% required 24/7 while on duty for every officer and vehicle, to the point it cannot be disabled.

        There would be plenty of money to do this, but it is all tied up in union negotiated pensions for the evil doers.

  48. Reality Is :
    I would love to have helmet cams and recorders on all cops on all calls for service, contacts, or stops. Money prevents that at this point. Doing that statewide would solve almost all issues. The equipment and data storage is so expensive. It’s not that bad to record everything and store it, but to hold it for extended periods is the key as you know. Many times, like the Vam case and others, those recordings would be long gone by the time the facts come forward as to any issues.

    That too is flawed.

    How much has FPD payed out in lawyers fees the last few years? And settlements?

    How about Homeland Security funds, or grants through same for video cameras?

    Assets seizure money from narcotics busts?

    If your fanny is under constant fire you find ways to CYA.

    If nothing else ALL the traffic units should be equipt because that is where many complaints come from. That would be just for starters.

    Hmmm, if the traffic units had been equipt with video camera’s, this tow issue could clearly be put to rest now wouldn’t it? If not a serious step in the right direction.

    When you target something or someone, that’s when you use that equipment the most because you know HEAT or BOGUS complaints are going to come down.

    The Chief or City Attorney could simply give a copy of the tapes to the tow company attorney an say, “we have done nothing wrong” and WE will see you in court.

    Frivolous lawsuits are just that, frivolous and the one suing generally gets to pay all costs. SO I say bring it one and YOU can flip the bill.

    But the DAR issue is simple. YOU get a complaint, no evidence to counter the complaint, forgot to turn it on, wasn’t safe, or stopped half way through the contact, YOU might face discipline when all is said and done.

    See if that motivates the troops to use those things or suffer. If no such policy exsists or will be made, then don’t bitch about the allegations of cover-up.

    We know at least one FPD copper (former) didn’t mind destroying his DAR when someone died in the jail.

    Let the Union argue that policy is TOO MUCH!!

    You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too in 2012.

    But you don’t want to piss of the troops too much, because they might NOT donate any money to your campaign fund or support you for Chief of Police.

    Just waive the check book when you talk, it’s shut folks up more often than not.

    1. Lawyers fees will always be through the roof. Legit cases and BS cases. As you are well aware, there are a ton of BS cases that get tossed out but the lawyer fees are through the roof.

      Yes grants are available. That’s what bought most of the systems in place at PD’s now.

      Asset forfeiture is an option being used and explored everyday. Problem is continued storage and maintenance after the purchase. That can’t be paid for my asset forfeiture funds.

      Traffic car units are few and far between. They are mostly motorcycles in California and the systems for those are even more complex and clunky than the car systems. I’ve worn them and they are terrible. Then the mounted ones don’t always catch the video portion, and then batteries in the bikes don’t work well with the systems either. Dead bikes often. Anything can be done, but it takes the money and a good, tested system.

      You just hit what I was saying. Tow recordings would have been deleted long ago. No system is going to hold that much data 24 hours a day for that long.

      I agree on the DAR. I love getting the recordings right away and calling the complainant into my office and playing it. Their expressions and faces say so much as they walk out mumbling.

      How long ago were you a cop? What rank did you leave at? Most of your beliefs seem to be more old school, and not with current management in most PD’s. Pissing off the troops due to policies, implementation of new policies, enforcement of policies, and deployment of new technologies to increase community support is something that most PD brass doesn’t even consider.

      Checkbook is a huge obstacle in this era. You know that. Unlimited funds would allow for the implementation of many ideas and concepts.

  49. @ #81 RI

    “How long ago were you a cop? What rank did you leave at? Most of your beliefs seem to be more old school, and not with current management in most PD’s. Pissing off the troops due to policies, implementation of new policies, enforcement of policies, and deployment of new technologies to increase community support is something that most PD brass doesn’t even consider”.

    5 years ago since I sat in a patrol car. Rank was Deputy, didn’t care to play the management game and cover up for the corrupt ones so I only took the test for promotion once in 20 years.

    But management taught me what I know, and they talked just like YOU do now, back in 1986 to the present, little has changed.

    I submit those who have changed are NOT at the brunt of scandals either. So what say you on that?

    Old school YES, but I was smart enough to learn how to keep myself informed and CYA after the Rodney King scandal.

    Old school is grabbing the bull by the horns and not dancing around stuff like you seem to.

    Chiefs really aren’t concerned about what the troops are concerned about OKAY!! ONLY the self serving ones.

    I am talking about the UNION checkbook that get’s waived around. If your telling me that means nothing to the brass, OKAY. I say BS.

    Now if you think a person of higher rank is something to be concerned about, or a force to be reckoned with, LMAO, let me be the first to tell you, that is where some of the biggest dummies work.

    How about to the tune of, 120 Captains and above, that’s almost more than FPD has in total sworn personnel.

    A Mayberry RFD department in comparison to 2,000 plus sworn department and the experience one gains is like apples and oranges.

    So don’t get a big head cause you have rank if you do at all, YOU might look like the fool at the end of the day.

    There were many command staff I didn’t care for, but respect them none the less. I did so because they were smart,quick on their feet, mixed no words.

    I’d shake their hand to this day, drink a beer with them anytime.

    I don’t see that in you thus far. Nothing to indicate you have run with the big boys in your day.

    I do give credit where credit is due.

    There are good cops in small department without question.

    But a small department is still at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to the number of serious issues handled per day or year and how they are handled.

    I am not consulting with a homicide detective who handles one or two murders a year in their jurisdiction, when I can talk to one who handles 50 a year.

    Experience RI, not a title is what I look for.

  50. RI here is a clue about hard work and experience.

    A reserve cop, works 3,700 hours solo in a patrol car, handling calls, arresting bad guys, helping out the regular cops?

    ALL this in a period of 18 months, 12 hours a day, for up to 40 straight days without a day off.

    ALL the while, NOT making ONE dime in taxpayer money.

    If they get killed, NO MONEY for his family, MAYBE a full honors funeral.

    Then they get hired as a regular cop and work the very night before they start the academy.

    Just a peek at my resume. DON’T play with me RI and your silly ass questions.

      1. Hi fucktard! How’s that “proof” coming? Demonstrating those “lies” that “everybody” knows about should be so easy that even you could manage it. Anytime now.

  51. “he facts are that Tony and Chris delete all of my posts as fast as then can when I post. They miss one here and there, but that’s about it. It’s just clear they only want people with the one view on here.”
    ^
    what other view? You honestly think the three limp wall dildo’s should not be recalled? You think they are doing a fine job leading Fullerton…into debt? You think something other than Kelly Thomas murdered by Fullerton Cops occurred??

        1. I have no clue what you are even talking about. I haven’t been on here much lately so I might have missed what you were asking completely.

          1. The questions asked by Anon in #90 were pretty clear. There are four questions, which would require four answers. And I don’t mean answering a question with a question, like you did in #92

            come on, be honest….or is that possible for you? (that would make 5 answers now)

  52. In my opinion, nothing has had a more disasterous effect on mankind, then the DRUNKEN lust to hold and take power over others, be it by axe or here with local gunplay and paper.

    1. Machiavelli wrote, Cruelty was the criteria for, principalities.

      Stalin, many, many millions, killed and tortured just for his own personal power.

      Saddahm Hussein credited with 2 Million Killed, unmentionable torture.

      Pol Pot, Khmer Rouge leader Pol Pot to form a Communist peasant farming society resulted in the deaths of 25 percent of the country’s population from starvation, overwork and executions. 2,000,000 deaths.

      The total number of military and civilian casualties in World War I was over 35 million. There were over 15 million deaths and 20 million wounded ranking it among the deadliest conflicts in human history.

  53. Reality Is :
    ACU. You finally provided good facts and real facts. I was also a traffic guru in my time and handled the RFPs, tow companies, etc. You provided factual and complete info for once. Kudos.
    If you look at most So Cal cities, they have all been sued by a mad tow company owner for not being on the rotation. Almost all are thrown out. They want to be on the rotation but don’t want to fulfill the criteria on the RFP and tow contract, and then claim they are being discriminated against.
    It is odd Fullerton has one row company if that is true. I wonder how many tows they average a year. Maybe it’s minimal. Maybe it’s large and they have the OT fund attached to the customers bills as well. Many unknowns.
    The harassment is simple to prove. I think it’s being exaggerated as most initial lawsuit filings are. We will see if they can bring in the 40 plus cites and prove the delays. I predict it’s 90% BS as most lawsuits against cities. This lawsuit has one goal. Attempt to settle by allowing this tow company onto the rotation.
    By the way, tow companies are the most scandalous, law breaking businesses around. They steal cars, gouge customers, and are just plain dirty. The only clean ones are the police tows. Private property tow companies commit crimes daily. Dirty. Nasty. Just like politics.

    Anaheim/Fullerton Tow does all the Police Tows for Fullerton, Which includes, abandoned vehicles, unlicensed drivers, etc. There is a rotation of about 4 or 5 tow companies for private tows, accidents and private property. So Anaheim/Fullerton Tow is not the only tow company Fullerton Police use.

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