New Council Kills Illegal Water Tax

They did it.

Last night the new city council killed the “in-lieu” franchise fee that illegally tacked on an additional 10% to our water bills. Redeeming their campaign pledges, Travis Kiger and Greg Sebourn led the charge, along with Bruce Whitaker. Doug Chaffee followed their lead, as did Sharon Quirk-Silva.

So after a year’s dilatory foot-dragging by city staff and a clueless council majority,  the deal is done, effective July 1st, 2012. Future rate increases necessary for infrastructure maintenance will be treated, rightly, as a separate issue, as will any legitimate indirect and overhead costs from the City.

And Bruce Whitaker succinctly summed up the what happens to the money – $2.5 million a year – that is tacked on and skimmed off. 70% went to pay for non-water related salaries, benefits, and pension costs. The scam lasted for over forty years.

I offer my profound thanks to the council for doing the right thing.

Also invigorating was the minor tsunami of requests from councilmen for future agenda items:

Kiger: a study of nepotism in the police department; a fireworks referendum.

Sebourn: an independent audit of City Hall; a report on police disciplinary statistics.

Whitaker: discussion of disclosure to council of public records requests.

Doug Chaffee: discussion of direct council hiring (and presumably oversight) of the police chief.

It was refreshing and exciting to finally see a Fullerton city council take charge, direct policy issues, and deliver on campaign promises.

Well done, and thank you!



172 Replies to “New Council Kills Illegal Water Tax”

  1. In one meeting, the new City Council did what the old Council could not do in over a year. Excellent first step. May there be many more.
    Joe Felz, how do you feel about the illegal water tax now?

  2. Wonder if this will earn each of the candidates in the upcoming November elections an endorsement from the folks at the Howard Jarvis Taxpayer Association?

  3. Buh bye illegal water tax, effective July 1st, 2012-Gives meaning for today. So happy for Fullerton-The founding fathers are clapping now.

    I ask that same question of City Attorney
    “how do you feel about the illegal water tax now?”

    Love how some of the residue of the three dirt clods tried to imply that eliminating the tax (with air quotes, that it may be illegal) was premature and politically motivated.

  4. Classic moment when Bruce Whitiker put to rest the the dialog during public comments as to where the water tax was going. As Joe Felz was trying to explain that it was spread evenly to different departments to use at thier discression Bruce stated the answer the girl was asking during public comments…. where did the money go specificaly? He said I knew where it went, primarily to payroll, pension funds. nothing more was after that.there was no refuting it.

  5. Fantastic! Now how does the city intend to return the illegal funds accrued? Moreover, while a great first action, one has has to question why Mayor Silva did not more proactively do something about this earlier? Red tape? When will the City disclose where the illegal funds have been allocated over the years? To pensions? To fringes? Where’s the accountability? Or are we past the finger pointing and simply going to sweep the past under the rug?

  6. good, I don’t credit quirk-silva, she was complicit in this tax for years as a city council person. Now, we have persons who truly strive to represent the interests of the good people of fullerton. with the reduced revenue with the end of this illegal tax, how will Fullerton’s bread and circuses be funded while continuing to pay out enormous salaries and benefits to its privileged city employees?

    1. Concur. Pretty tough to assign much credit to Sharon other than an ability to read the tea leaves. I have to admit, I was not displeased with Chaffee’s characterization of the necessity of cleaning this up because it’s illegal. He certainly was clear that he agreed we will need to raise rates in the future. Not sure why he is certain of that when this council has not even begun their efforts to reduce the cost of labor. Good meeting though. There is no getting around that I appreciate the yes votes of all five and the acceptance of essentially all of the agenda items proposed.

      1. I agree. At this point its work with the council we have, and the more they get along, the better. The agenda items proposed were sensible and I’m not surprised everybody is on board. I agree with you also that rates do not necessarily need to come up because the water tax is killed. The more quickly the council can get through and agree on agenda items, the more quickly the council will be able to make substantial and long-needed changes.

        1. I too agree, since 70%, or even more, wasn’t spent on anything to do with water, then eliminating the tax shouldn’t require replacement by raising taxes or adding other fees. Make up the 30% or so by eliminating the “enormous salaries and benefits” by getting rid of those employees. Also, I asked before as was asked above when and how is the illegal proceeds ($$$) of this scam, this theft, going to be repaid to the taxpayers?

  7. “70% went to pay for non-water related salaries, benefits, and pension costs. The scam lasted for over forty years.”

    For God’s sake… FORTY YEARS?!?!?! That tax was the true definition of a SCAM!

  8. With regards to a fireworks referendum: are people in cities like Stanton, Garden Grove, Santa Ana, more patriotic and trustworthy that residents in cities that do not allow fireworks? How the hell did that happen?

    My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson

  9. With regard to fireworks, there is no reason they should be illegal in Fullerton. Areas in the canyons and mountains, fine, but not here in the suburbs.

    1. Suburbs are not immune to brush/wild fires; several years ago there was a major fire in the city limits (suburban area) of San Bernardino. Suburban areas of Colorado Springs suffered major losses in the past several weeks ($110 million loss re: homes is estimated). My BIL is volunteering with the Red Cross in the Fort Collins/Denver area – the ARC is issuing sifters to fire victims so they can try to find even a small piece of their mementos. I would not ever want to be in the position of trying to find even small pieces of my life like they are.

      “Canyons and mountains” – well, add “open spaces” to that and Fullerton has many open spaces that will burn and encroach on housing areas with the right wind.

      Oh, yeah, November a few years ago – multiple homes evacuated and burned in the Green River, Yorba Linda and Brea areas.

      No, those fires may not have been started by fireworks, but never think that because someone lives in a “suburb” they are immune to loss from a wild fire.

      Maybe Travis can look into “laser” fireworks? Less risk and still a dramatic presentation

    2. “No reason” — really? Do you own a dog?

      Freaking out animals (with sometimes fatal consequences) and fire danger may or may not be enough of a reason, but they sure aren’t “no reason.”

      1. Freaking out a dog and fire danger are not synonymous. And I love my dogs.

        When you have a ban, people are motivated to shoot off illegal fireworks when you tell them they cant have the “safe and sane” fireworks. There are far more roman candles, M80’s, firecrackers, etc since the ban. I would know this because for the past 50 years I LIVED HERE!I am not sure how I feel about making them legal again, but dogs should have nothing to do with the reasoning.

        HB just made them legal again so it should be interesting to see how that plays out. And now knowing that Molly McCrazyhan and Bankhead were behind the first ban makes me want to do just the opposite.

        regardless, I think the firework issue should be low on the priority scale of getting things done. Felz’s exit and FPD nepotism should be the first on the agenda.

        1. I agree Felz expulsion should be first on the list. Hell, I’ll do it for 50k and expenses, 🙂 saving over 50k for the taxpayers. Am I qualified? Probably, if a playground manager can do it, anybody can…right?

          1. I live close enough to DTF and I heard hundreds of illegal fireworks going off from every direction until 2 am. When nobody obeys the law time to think about whether we need that law. And of course my dog went nuts as usual!

            1. The law is a joke, is unenforceable and is meant to further criminalize normal law abiding citizens. You cant even fire a nerf gun in city limits according to the municipal code. It is high time to rid the books of this nonsense and to incrementally take back our freedoms as they have been incrementally stolen from us by the pied pipers and their blind followers. It is a new day in Fullerton and there are a lot more ahead.

        2. Right, they’re not synonymous. They’re two different things. That’s why I connect them with the word “and.” (Before you says so, I then treating them as a collective single set of reasons and thus used the singular “a reason” — I’ll take the hit on that one.

          “now knowing that Molly McCrazyhan and Bankhead were behind the first ban makes me want to do just the opposite.”

          Well — thanks for admitting it, anyway.

      2. Not to worry Diamond. They will likey remain illegal in the municpaity where you LIVE.

        You are free to rent a place here if you are so interested.

        You can’t be half pregnant! you either live in Fullerton or you don’t. I am sure belive those in the Zona Norte in Tijauna should have access to San Diego schools!

      3. [“No reason” — really?]………. Hmmmmm

        You are an idiot Golem!

        The main reason why the fireworks are illegal in most cities is because every idiot puts on his roof wood shingles which are highly flammable.

        That may also answer your curiosity why 5 houses would burn to the ground and one next to them will stay untouched. That one would have usually clay tiles roofing.

        Some cities ban wood shingles and tar paper roofing.

        Folks, Just ask Stanly because lawyers are moron mongoloids.

        I hope Golem will represent SA Councilman Carlos Bustamante in his upcoming sex trial.

        1. The fireworks ban was on the ballet.. and the citizens of Fullerton voted for the ban. Why did Kiger say the city took them away? How much will it cost to put this on the ballet again?

  10. From LA Times circa 1989…

    Banning fireworks is an issue of safety, Mayor Molly McClanahan said.

    “This is not an issue of patriotism,” she said.

    McClanahan and Councilman Don Bankhead said they would like to outlaw so-called safe and sane fireworks in Fullerton because they create a fire and safety danger to residents. “Safe and sane” is a designation given by the state fire marshal to relatively safe fireworks that don’t explode or fly through the air.

    Although Fullerton was fortunate this year to have only about $700 in damage caused by fireworks, McClanahan said, there have been several close calls, meaning fires were doused quickly before spreading.

    “I think we were lucky,” she said.

    Fire Chief Ron Coleman asked the council to ban fireworks not only because of the risks of fires and injuries, but also because residents from surrounding cities that ban fireworks have been flowing into Fullerton to shoot them off.

    With so many people coming to Fullerton to use fireworks in parks, schools and on public streets, the risk has increased, he said.

    Fullerton housewife Jean Henderson, 33, told the council that if Fullerton bans them, it will force her family to drive to another city on July 4.

    “I have small children, and we love our little home display,” she said

    1. If I were Travis or Greg S. I would stay away from this. The moment little timmy or little jose loses a finger or something catches on fire due to fireworks, the opposition will use it to bury them.

      1. Ya, you’re right Annon, every liberty lover should be afraid of what someone might do with freedom. The fact is people can end up in the emergency room today from riding their skateboard (ban them?), burns from the barbeque, over exposure to sun, diving in to the water etc. etc..

        The current LEGAL version of fireworks are no more dangerous than a lit cigarette. Both could start a forrest fire or be harmless depending on how they are handled.

        If I were Travis or Greg or Bruce or Sharon or Doug I would back getting this on the fall ballot (which can still be done) and prove I am a lover of freedom and liberty rather than an elected babysitter of the populace.

        1. every liberty lover should be afraid of what someone might do with freedom

          This has nothing to do with “freedom” and everything to do with politics. The opposition would love nothing more than to force Travis and Greg S. vote or comment on this so they can spin it to their advantage.

          Vote no, they hate america and freedom. Vote yes, they’re putting the lives of citizens in danger.

          If I were them I wouldn’t touch this at all. There are bigger things to worry about.

        2. If you follow the directions on the fireworks, no one will get injured and nothing will be damaged. Darwin at work.

    2. 1989–ban fireworks and in the interest of public safety- open more bars and militarize the police-brilliant-what a bunch of idiots-public safety-what a joke-the biggest threat to public safety and our economy in the city of Fullerton last year was the Fullerton Police Department and drunk driving. Lets open more bars and hire more cops-that will keep us safe.

  11. This success makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside! Keep up the good work, Fullerton! You are setting an example for communities nationwide that change CAN happen! <3

  12. One clarification- My agenda request item was that Council Members be notified of Public Records Requests, helping us to insure that information is provided promptly to residents, the media and other interested parties.

    1. Way to go Bruce. I have a feeling Fullerton is going to have reason for optimism when you get to the city budget.

      No more sacred cows! Every expense must be the best for the most, not what is wanted by an “important” few.

    2. Bruce, how long have you been on city counsil??? And now you want to act as if you had a problem with the tax and take credit for it! You now have to go along with everyone else so the ffffers don’t start singleing you out!! Typical politician!!

      1. Really…. The man did try to vote the tax down, but there is only so much one can do when 3 out 5 votes are needed to pass something and the 3 lettuce heads kept naying everything – like the horse heads they are.

        And Bruce has only been in council since 2010.

          1. “You can’t get any more cheesier or clichéd than this.”…….. Hmmmmmm

            Like Golem’s second oxymoron: I am fiscally conservative but socially liberal?

            I wonder where he gets money for his social liberalism.

            1. Can you cite where I’ve ever said “I am fiscally conservative but socially liberal?” That’s libertarianism — you’re bathing in it here, but it’s not my category.

              1. “you’re bathing in it here, but it’s not my category”……… Hmmmm

                Every lawyer will deny everything.

                So what are you Golem?

                Fiscally irresponsible but socially national socialist?

          1. How’s that campaign coming along Greg? All that talking you to around here seems to helping out Bob Huff. Is that your strategy?

  13. It was very refreahing to witness a council working together instead of 3 holding off 2. You have 4 months to earn your next term. Go get em.

  14. As a Fullerton Citizen, I thank all of our new council members for listening to one another on a very sensitive issue that most of us in Fullerton feel strongly about….THANK YOU!

    And, I agree with Chris Thompson’s comment about; “There is no getting around that I appreciate the yes votes of all five and the acceptance of essentially all of the agenda items proposed.” Amen!!

    And, Thank You Bruce for for helping us the “public” for placing this request; “My agenda request item was that Council Members be notified of Public Records Requests, helping us to insure that information is provided promptly to residents, the media and other interested parties.” Hallelujah!

  15. Great news for Fullerton residents. Will this have any effect on lowering the exorbitant salaries/pensions of officers? That would make it doubly rewarding if they were paid according to level of education like almost everyone else who is not an entrepreneur/business person.

  16. Fullerton City employees are lookin at pay cuts and reduced benefits. So sad, NOT. time to join the rest of us. If they don’t like it, go find a new job. FEDS just cut salaries by 5%, and increased employee cost for health benefits. In 2013 I will be paying over $300.00 a month for health benefits for 2.

    1. You’re absolutely right, try to find a job in the real world where they pay for your benifits, or even offer benefits. City employees from the top down should either pay for their benefits of lose them. Also pay cuts are key, and not a chintzy 5%. Very few citizens of Fullerton are making over 100,000. or 200,000. But it seems to be common on the city payroll. Stop overtime, that’ll help reduce overpayment. Put them on salaries, exempt, no overtime however many the hours they work.

      1. Leroy. Police and Fire can’t operate with no overtime. Vacation and sick backfill is mandatory with minimum staffing requirements. There is an overtime budget each year. That should be scrutinized big time.

        1. You’re right, I not saying don’t work the hours. I’ve, in the real world, worked in many positions where on salary, if I worked 40, or 10, or 60, or 80 hours I earned the same amount. I wasn’t given a choice, if the job needed to be done I was expected to stay until it was done, but got paid the same amount. As to fire and police, how much of their time, regular and overtime is just sitting waiting? A fair amount I’d guess. My point I guess is we need to get these costs under control, and overtime is a large part of the out of control portion, if we put them, meaning everybody not just some, on straight salaries, no overtime pay, suddenly you’ll find the necessary overtime diminishing rapidly, very rapidly.

          1. Agree. Overtime budgets should have shrunk by 30-40% over the last 3 years.

            It’s not as easy as you think. Cops can only work 15 hours in a row. So say a 10 hour shift and the next shift cop calls in sick or they are below beat minimum. They offer overtime to fill the vacant staffing minimum. If no OT no one will come in. Cops and fire are all hourly employees. I see what you are saying. It’s just that easy to change. I’m sure Fullerton can pull it off with a security firm though.

  17. All water ratepayers in Fullerton for the last 40 years should get rebate checks in the mail from the City. And the money needed to pay the rebates should come directly out of the salaries and retirement benefits going to City workers.

    Anything short of that solution is ‘yea’ vote for theft and extortion.

    1. How are they suppose to rebate the the money. It’s already been spent. How about if Dan Hughes mowes my lawn for a couple of years. Now that would make me happy. And Joe can clean my house.

      1. Just like the settlements and court judgements for people suing for…. The city, i.e. taxpayers repay themselves. Better yet sue the people who were on the council all those years, or their heirs/estates, they got the money after all.

      2. So what if it’s already spent, CG?

        If someone broke into your home and stole your TV and jewelry – and was caught later – the thief would be ordered to pay you restitution even if he already sold the items and spent the money, right?

        Why should the City of Fullerton be treated any differently? If the water tax was illegal that = theft. If the proceeds of the illegal water tax was given to the Fullerton public employees in form of salary increases and big pensions – the public employees owe you restitution. All of them should take pay cuts and the money saved from the pay cuts should be used to reimburse the Fullerton water ratepayers in rebate form.

        That’s how it would work in a fair and just society, CG. Unfortunately, the City is allowed to steal from you and you aren’t allowed to force them to return what they stole. The best you can do is force them to stop stealing present and future dollars from you.

        CItizens who aren’t members of elite government clubs go to jail for theft and are forced to pay restitution for their illegal acts.

        But not the government thugs. They get free passes on both jail and restitution.

        It’s time to open your eyes and see how the real world operates in 2012.

        1. You are right in a way JU. The city should pay. Not the employees who had nothin to do with the theft. The city managers and city councils over the last 40 years. They should make that decision to pay it back. Then with those millions and the Ron’s millions, they just claim bankruptcy and start all over fresh. Simple. Outside of bankruptcy they won’t be able to change retiree pensions and benefits from the past, only future after the current contracts expire. Bankruptcy clearly has some negatives too but Fullerton could start over much easier than other cities.

          1. No, Mr. Holmes.

            In this situation the city employees were the beneficiaries of stolen goods. Consequently, it is incumbent upon the city employees to return the stolen goods back to their rightful owner. That’s the way the law is written.

            Bankruptcy is a given. But it won’t happen right away. That’s a few more years down the road. Bankruptcy will also impact the pensions for active pensioniers. When the money runs out everyone takes a hit. You will see more and more cities go bankrupt and then finally the state will go into receivorship. All the pension contracts will get torn up.

            1. I know. But we both know employees won’t be paying anything back. Contracts are contracts.

              Yes bankruptcy affects current and former. Sad for retirees that fulfilled their end of the contracts only to be screwed later. But that’s life.

            2. Sad thing is that once some of the cities actually go bankrupt it will cause even more foreclosures and for sure put us into a major financial crisis for a long time. We are screwed in this state and the country for the rest of our lives. I’m glad I’m set for life. I feel bad for the majority of the population though.

              1. Be a good idea to have it in silver and gold, or some other valuable, as at that point paper money, bonds, etc. will literally be worthless, and real estate not much better. From what I’ve read, it’s coming fast. Don’t feel too bad for the rest of us, that’ll be who’s battering in the doors. Good news is based on family history I’m a short timer.

              2. ZIRP (Zero Interest Rate Policy) set by the Fed is literally destroying the pension funds and social security. The nation is caught in an unsolvable dilemma. If it increases the interest rates the economy tanks and the required interest payment on the federal debt shoots through the roof. If rates go back to the historical average of 5-6% the interest service would be nearly $1T alone, about a third of the US budget. If we remain at ZIRP it destroys savers and funds that rely on reasonable fixed rate returns. Either way we move, we’re screwed.

                If you stay in this country you’re screwed – no matter whether you think you’re ‘set for life’ or not. No one escapes what’s coming. You may be ‘less screwed’ but you’re still ‘screwed’.

              3. John Holmes no one is set for life. Congress won’t even be allowed in the underground facilities. Even the poor Coeur
                d’Alene LE pensioners. The feds have them as first on the list. The walls are closing in. Now the medical tyranny is being foisted upon us. Now there are leaks in the media-by design of course, about the bio weapons labs’ security being breached. The hell with the arsenal, you better have a damn good immune system. We face major threats on all fronts .We can’t buy our way out of what is coming.

        2. I’m with you 100% Just Us. I’d also add that current rate payers be offered the choice of receiving credits towards their current and future bills.
          If the city balks and says they can’t absorb 100% credits for everyone at the same time, I’d suggest a credit of a percentage of an agreed upon formula of whatever they can afford to offer residents current and future bills for immediate economic relief in a very tough economy.

  18. I agree with you. I was poised to help evacuate my parent’s house in South Austin when wild fires devastated suburban Bastrop last year.
    Last year Texas suffered a series of horrible wild fires. Urban legend has it that one of the fires was started by a teenager burning love letters in his back yard. People can act very carelessly when they operate under the assumption that “these things won’t happen to me. Of course Texas is prone to serious drought conditions and or extreme weather patterns. Can the climate in Fullerton support a lot of fireworks?

    1. I understand that part of it, I was just wondering how long the 10% will be taken off the bills in the future.

  19. So cool.

    Don’t forget the clause I signed that I go back to Captain once they hire the next Chief. I’m just keeping the seat warm.

    Cops have a contract so 50% cuts to pay and benefits are a few years out. At that point just bring in the Sheriffs and let my boys head to better OC towns.

    Happy 4th.

      1. I believe you. When the contract runs out, I imagine they will try for cuts. The process will run the course. Impasse. No contract. Etc. it won’t be as easy as you think.

        1. Yeah the kops will walk and all become neurosurgeons or one of the many other lucrative professions open to them. Uh huh.

  20. Get a police chief who will issue concealed weapons permits. I have never been arrested for a felony and I want to protect myself from criminal police.

  21. Fullerton in a few months.

    Lawyers for Stockton, California will appear for the first time in a Sacramento court this week to make their case for protecting the city from its creditors in bankruptcy.

    Stockton, a city of nearly 300,000 in California’s Central Valley, filed for Chapter 9 bankruptcy last week.

    Its legal team has been scheduled to appear in U.S. bankruptcy court on Friday, July 6, in the first hearing of the city’s case (Case No. 2012-32118), one of their lawyers said on Monday.

    Attorney Marc Levinson, who also represented Vallejo, a California city that recently exited from bankruptcy, said a judge for the case had not yet been appointed.

    Stockton is seeking court approval for its 2013 fiscal year budget. The $155 million spending plan relies on closing a $26 million deficit largely with defaults on bond payments, cuts to employee compensation and eliminating the city’s medical insurance program for its retired workers.

    Bond insurer Assured Guaranty Ltd put Stockton on notice on Friday that it would fight the city in bankruptcy court, noting it believes Stockton had alternatives to bankruptcy to restructure its finances.

    Assured Guaranty has $161.4 million of insured exposure to Stockton through its Assured Guaranty Corp. and Assured Guaranty Municipal Corp. subsidiaries.

    “We volunteered our team of municipal turnaround experts,” Assured Guarantee said in a statement, “to offer a plan that would have allowed the City to avoid filing for bankruptcy.”

    Following a California law, Stockton held three months of negotiations with creditors that failed to produce enough concessions to close the city’s budget gap by the time the deadline for the talks expired last week.

    “Since the City Council has not engaged in any meaningful effort to initiate revenue enhancement, asset sales or pension reform, it is questionable whether the City has taken all steps necessary and available to meet the stringent eligibility criteria for filing a bankruptcy petition under chapter 9,” the Assured Guarantee statement said.

  22. If there are to be refunds, it should come from the city. It’s insane to consider raising water rates to pay for this. That would be equivalent to charging us to pay for our own refunds. If the city needs to secure financial means, let it start with the agencies that benefited from stolen money. Do not confuse this with cutting services but rather, cutting dead weight positions and possibly pay cuts after that.

    IF water rates need to be raised to cover infrastructure and repairs, so be it. But at least it will be public and used only for such things instead of going into a covered up slush fund for other things.

    I’m all for making fireworks legal but in only in areas not within close proximity of brush or other potential fire hazards. How fun and exciting for families to do this at home. The stands are also great fundraisers for various adult and youth groups.

  23. Congratulations to everyone who worked so hard to turn Fullerton around. Citizens of all cities, should look upon you folks as go-getters. All we need now to finish the job, is to get that dummy and his wife out of the White House.
    Respectfully Submitted…

      1. You’ve been duped by Ron Paul and his kid.

        Ron has basically told all his followers to follow the Republican mainstream lead and his pin-headed son, Rand, has already endorsed Romney.

        All of them are owned by the big money regardless of what they told you.

        You swallowed their bait unfortunately.

        1. I think you are unfortunately right about Rand. I still respect and hold out hope for Ron. Well, maybe I’m naive but I liked his platform and even the most unlikely people say he is a nice man (for example prominent leftist theorist Noam Chomsky!).

  24. Where does FPD fit in as far as salaries for Orange County agencies? What kind of raises have they been given the past 5 years? I believe we all have the right to know. Can someone please provide some numbers?

  25. Hmmm I posted about 4 hours ago but it seems to be tied up in cyberspace somewhere…

    I was at the high school for its annual fireworks show. As usual, it was superb. As I was sitting there, people watching, I saw so many families and adults of all ages enjoying the entertainment, full of patriotism…I once again felt the pride of living in Fullerton ; in a community atmosphere. We have a ways to go in rebuilding our city but we’re off to a good start with our new council. I beamed as Sharon introduced all the council members on stage. While I thought she had an excellent speech, the highlight was stolen by Travis up there with his precious little girl.

    I also realized this is our council, whether we like all or some. The time has come to put away the hate and anger and work with them as one body. I’m not a Chaffee fan but I will work with him from this point forward as long as I see him put the city’s interests first. It’s my hope that with promised transparency, we will be able to address things that we disagree with in a productively, before it snowballs. And if we agree, we can be more supportive early on.

  26. Please sign and send these petitions seeking justice for Kelly Thomas to anyone who has not already signed them. I know this is off topic, but I am not from Fullerton and only really come to this site because of how disgusted I was when I read about the case last July. Glad to see concerned citizens (and outsiders) fighting to take their city back and seek justice.

  27. Fullerton is about to become Thomasville. Unacceptable behavior (fpd’s tolerance of substandard cops) always carrys a cost.

  28. As sad as it is to see the innocent citizens of Fullerton having to shell out tens of millions of dollars for the actions of a few sadistic, mentally unbalanced thugs, I suppose it’s the only way to get the people of the city motivated to make sure the corrupt officers are removed/prosecuted.

  29. Although I am not a big Ron Thomas fan I hope he ends up owning Fullerton city hall. That is the only way Fullerton PD would be forced into change. Typical lawsuits against police agencies do not change the behavior that caused the legal action in the first place – because the offenders or agencies are rarely punished directly. Only the innocent citizen taxpayers get punished. But if the award is large enough and threatens the solvency of the city government we might see some big changes to FPD. That’s what I’m hoping for. The City leadership (council, city manager, city attorney, etc…) and the executive staff at FPD are accountable for 95% of the blame here. They were aware of the ‘culture of corruption’ and did nothing to stop it. The good citizens have rid their council of the political vermin who were complicit. Now it’s time to go after the FPD execs and the other city leaders who turned a blind eye.

    1. I honestly think that the best thing that Ron Thomas did for Fullerton residents is to NOT accept Fullerton’s initial offer of $900,000.00

      If he had, I don’t believe that any of the officers would’ve ever been charged criminally and everything would’ve been swept under the rug as police misconduct here in Fullerton had in the past.

    2. I agree with JustUs. I wouldn’t want to see our city bankrupt by these lawsuits. But the bigger picture, as an American citizen, I want to see these kind of police brutality and corruption case punished severely, with ridiculously huge awards going to the victims and their relatives. As a resident and fan of Fullerton it would be hard to see the city go under. But justice comes first and if that’s what it takes, that’s what it takes.

  30. Goodie, I don’t think 90% of the cops need to go. It’s probably more like 20-25% or so. The rest are just scared to break the code of silence.

    1. Scared cops aren’t good cops. If you’re too scared to do the right thing, turn in your badge.

      If you’re too scared to do the right thing, you sure as hell don’t deserve to carry a gun, either.

    2. “I don’t think 90% of the cops need to go. It’s probably more like 20-25% or so. The rest are just scared to break the code of silence”

      A cop who is unwilling to step up and turn in a dirty cop is just as bad as the dirty cop. Both operate from the same moral position and neither deserve to be cops. Unfortunately the ‘code of silence’ is encouraged at the very top so it continues unabated. Police departments have the same standards as street gangs in many ways. One thug wears a badge, the other doesn’t. That’s the difference.

  31. “New Council Kills Illegal Water Tax”………….. Hmmmmmmmm

    Does that mean that if I will order “Scotch & Water” in the Fullerton bar that the water will be tax free?

    Why not going all the way and kill “I” Scotch Tax too?

    FYI, word “illegal” is politically incorrect!

    Next time please use “I” word instead.

  32. OC Register : Kelly Thomas’ dad to file lawsuit on anniversary

    well good luck to all the residents of Fullerton. he is gonna laugh all the way to the bank.

    not a huge fan of this guy. from the get go it’s all about $$$$$$, he saw green money in CASH. hope we had different route in cleaning up the city council and police dept.

    we’re screwed. i wish he will share his cash to kelly’s army.



    2. Apt name “airhead.” Ron has nothing to do with the cop’s behavior, of…. screw it, I give up.

      F these trolls.

  33. Hey Jackass maybe if that bum would of done what he was told to do he would still be alive…..Jackass!

  34. LOS ANGELES – Kelly Thomas’ “murder (was an) inevitable result of the culture of corruption” and indifference within the Fullerton Police Department, his father alleges in a civil lawsuit filed Thursday in Orange County Superior Court.

    “The city has a long history of ignoring its officers’ abusive practices and is deliberately indifferent to the violations of Constitutional rights resulting from the city’s customs, practices and policies,” contends Ron Thomas in the wrongful death suit filed on the first anniversary of what the district attorney has called a deadly beating of his son by Fullerton officers.

          1. “City officials couldn’t be immediately reached for comments”.. Wasn’t that the reason the three councilman were recalled. Transparency. Do as I say, not as I do. What a JOKE! Time for a recall!!

            1. apples and banana peels pal. The charges are filed. They are off the streets now. Silence at this point is innocuous. JD what do you sweeten your kool aid with by the way? the yellow, pink, brown, blue or white packet? I am curious.

        1. The city’s police department declined to comment on the suit, noting officials have not yet had a chance to review it.


    1. Public unions are to the democrats what the redevelopment agencies were to the republicans. The RA’s got eliminated because democrats run the state. Public unions will remain intact until the system literally collapses and runs out of money…. until the time when the democrats literally run the gravy train right off the tracks and over the edge of the cliff at which point there will be chaos in the streets. The crooked cops will pay the price along with everyone else.

      1. Well said JustUs. Will be interesting to see. I still find it comical that cops were low paid public employees up until a few years ago. Now they are rich and well paid. Times change. Politicians get blamed for everything I guess and they approved every contract there is so I guess it’s the politicians fault when the world blows up.

  36. JustUs:
    Sure, some Republicians loved Redevelopment projects and some were Democrats.
    The leading person fighting RDA’s and especially eminent domain for many years was a Republican, Assemblyman Chris Norby. Many who attended the MORR conferences were Republicans too.
    Broad brush painting of any party is
    never totally accurate.

    1. I could point out maverick dems who oppose the public unions too. I am not going to list the position of every one of these elected prostitutes in a blog comment. Of course I am speaking in generalities. 90% of the elected republican prostitutes favored RDA’s and 95% of the elected democrat prostitutes favor the public unions. There, does that make you feel better? Can we agree now?

  37. Great work today LBPD. Mentally ill complete nut job firing at cops all day and striking a code enforcement officer in the head. Gas used. Dog bite. Alive. Amazing job.

  38. CNN :
    City officials couldn’t be immediately reached for comment Thursday.

    “A prudent man foreseeth the evil – God in mercy has denied man the knowledge of futurity; but in its place he has given him hope and prudence. By hope he is continually expecting and anticipating good; by prudence he derives and employs means to secure it. His experience shows him that there are many natural evils in a current state, the course of which he can neither stem nor divert: prudence shows him beforehand the means he may use to step out of their way, and hide himself. The simple – the inexperienced, headstrong, giddy, and foolish – rush on in the career of hope, without prudence to regulate, chastise, and guide it; thus they commit many faults, make many miscarriages, and suffer often in consequence; and the commission of crimes leads to punishment.”

    1. “Sin is foolishness, it is in the heart, there is an inward inclination to sin: children bring it into the world with them; and it cleaves close to the soul.”

    For perspective this is what a Million dollars can buy with good people.

    “The greatest benefit of helicopter patrol is the quick response time to emergencies. Our helicopter is capable of speeds up to 175mph, which puts us first on the scene of a crime or emergency about 97% of the time. Once the helicopter has arrived at the scene, suspects usually cease their activity because of their immediate desire to hide or escape. However, there is no escape from the Huntington Beach helicopter.”

  40. Ah, I see from the preceding comments that it’s full on Democrats vs Republicans or vice versa. Guess y’all have never heard of Libertarians. Guess you have now!

  41. I bet that fireworks outfit on Gilbert will pump thousands in to making fireworks legal. When the first house burns down, we know who’s fault it will be.

  42. Champion Master, now that R.T. has filed a lawsuit, maybe he will buy one of those quiet helos for the FPD with his big take.

    1. Many types of helicopters are not allowed for Law Enforcement, because there would be widespread abuse. As is many other tools techniques and information.

      Syrians are now using helicopters to Kill many of their own Civilians.

      If Fullerton didnt lose all those Billion dollar Companies that amount of money would be small potatoes.

      A billion dollar company recently 3rd largest in the world, moved their HQ out of Fullerton, and sold the whole company about a month later.

  43. Didn’t Travis Kiger just blow it by saying that a FPD LEO was fired and gave out his name. Doesn’t Travis know that it is against the law as a city official to say anything about an employee?

    As a sitting City Councilman he has a fiduciary duty to follow the rules.
    I feel another lawsuit in the works for that officer. So the city is going to lose more money.

    1. If Travis did so, he did so with authority. If this FPD Leo was fired with cause, the public has an absolute right to request and demand disclosure, particularly if it was over a matter of public safety or interest. This FAT CAT along with a lot of others should and will be booted out. There will be clawbacks on their pensions as many of them were funded illegally. And those monies will need to be returned to the city and citizens. Fullerton is facing a staggering debt, swelling faster by the minute with legal fees, and payouts.

  44. E.. you are dead wrong… all the demands for disclosure in the world do not give him the right or authority. Definitely grounds for a lawsuit. Travis is ignorant of his position and it may get him into a lot of hot water.

    1. Your dead wrong. This is public information and a public official has no more or no less than a right to disclose this information than you or I.

      What I predict will bankrupt the city will be the sloppy housekeeping that our Police Chief’s have done over the years with regards to Fullerton police officers that fall under the Brady vs. Maryland decision that deals with the integrity, or lack thereof, of individual police officers.

      We are so screwed on this one that it’s not even funny.

  45. Thanks Travis for contributing to the debilitation of the city coffer.
    How do you spell recall? R – e – c – a – l – l

  46. The faster we BK the city, the quicker we will be on to healing, adopting transparent policies, having public services by those who truly are working in the public’s best interests and protection. There are so many lazy, fat, sluggish, boorish malfeasant parties currently on the payroll – all lacking verismilitude and any sense of dedication to the city rather than just biding their time to collect generous pensions! It’s sickening and endemic of our current comp plans dished out by tax payers and strong armed by union leaders. Get the pain over with and we’ll be the better for it.

    1. Level of contempt towards the public that they serve, is inversely related to the quality of service to the public.

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