The Bill Of Indictment

This outstanding comment was posted by “Simmons” yesterday in response to the bizarre letter to the acting police chief from somebody purporting to be the brother of Jay Cicinelli.

I strongly recommend that somebody simply copy this comment and read it at the next City Council. All of it, but especially 11A-o. Watch the resistance wilt. Oh, yeah: quit screaming and hit them with the truth.

#11 by Simmons on October 8, 2011

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but these FPD officers will never be punished by the justice system.

The fix is in regarding the upcoming Fullerton Police murder trials for killing Kelly Thomas.

Unfortunately, the powers that be appear to have conspired with the POLICE UNION to protect these police officers and the police union.

Let us review the facts and I believe that you will tend to agree with me.

THE MURDER

1. It appears the call from a local BAR owner was faked to give the FPD a reason to arrest Kelly. Thus, even the initial stated reason for approaching this “aggressive pedestrian”” is suspect. Side note: If so, the citizens of Fullerton should see to it that this BAR is closed – one way or another.

2. Six FPD officers took part in the murder; apparently two took a bigger part than the other four.

3. Ramos punched Kelly several times in the ribs, tackled Kelly and used his hands to hold Kelly’s NECK and used his body weight to hold Kelly down.

4. Wolfe, who was not charged, also punched Kelly 3 or 4 times, kneed him in the head, and used his body weight to hold Kelly down.

5. Cincinelli arrived and kneed Kelly twice in the head, used his Taser 4 times to shock Kelly, and used the front of the Taser like a club to hit Kelly in the FACE 8 times while Kelly was pinned to the ground and could not move or protect himself; Notably, Kelly did not respond to the clubbing by Cincinelli but that did not stop these animals.

6. A growing pool of blood did not stop the beating.

CAUSE OF DEATH

7. Yet, the official cause of death, according to the corner, is “mechanical compression of the thorax making it impossible to breath normally”; Really !!!! Interesting as will be discussed below.

8. In contrast, the UIC Documents stated that Kelly Thomas died of Blunt Force Trauma to the head (“brain death” due to “head trauma” due to “Assault”). MRI demonstrated diffused supratentorial gray matter infarction consistent with diffused anoxic brain injury.

9. Notably, diffused anoxic injury can be caused by either breathing problems (corner’s selection) or brain acceleration (UIC Documents – from Dr. who treated Kelly). (Note: diffused anoxic brain injury is usually by vehicular accident but can also be caused by head trauma from a beating). This is important as I believe the powers that been in this case have manipulated the selection of the “cause of death” for reasons described below.

THE POLICE REPORTS – Culture of Corruption

10. The Police were allowed watched a video of the incident to craft their reports; reports that had to be rewritten several times even after the video was used. This made sure the reports were consistent with each other.

11. There is apparently a culture of corruption at the FPD including police officers that have been described/be charged as pickpockets, thieves, sexual predators, kidnappers, thugs, and murderers . . . all hired by former Fullerton Police Chief and now city council member Pat McKinley.

A: Albert Rincon – allowed to serially sexually assault women in the back of his patrol car. Actions known to FPD management but nothing was done.

B: FPD police officer — sentenced to jail for fraud to support his pill habit.

C: FPD police officer — arrested in Miami airport for iPad theft.

D: FPD police officer — who smashed recording device on jail wall to avoid complicity in jail suicide.

E: FPD police officers — beating up and falsely arresting Veth Mam.

F: FPD police officers — lying on the witness stand about Veth Mam.

G: FPD police officer — beating up and falsely arresting Edward Quinonez.

H: FPD police officer — sexually assaulting a dozen women in the backseat of his patrol car, with recording device turned off.

I: FPD police officers — issuing traffic citations to harass protesters.

J: FPD police officers — ambushing and murdering a helpless homeless man.

K: FPD police officers — turning off recording devices during murder.

L: FPD police officers — colluding to falsify reports about said murder.

M: FPD superior officers — coaching said falsification and returning to street of said miscreants.

N: FPD police officer — spokeshole deliberately issuing lies to the media to misdirect, temporize, stall and otherwise obscure said murder and cover up.

O) FPD police officer — arrests Emmanuel Martinez by mistake (or on purpose) and he spends 5 months in jail. (why did the FPD and union thugs not help his aggressive pedestrian make bail?)

As for City Leaders – councilmembers insulting protesters as “lynch-type mob”; councilmembers discounting injuries of murder victim.

12. The FPD appears to be run by UNION THUGS, as seems apparent when several Kelly Thomas protestors (aggressive driver) were ticked (by a head union thug) for blowing their car horn in support of Kelly Thomas.

13. While the DA’s job is to protect the people (aka aggressive pedestrians when walking) by prosecuting criminals, in the Kelly Thomas case, the DA has been described as being on the side of the police, who are the criminals in this case, not the people. The DA has even been described as engaging in preemptive surrender before the investigation is complete.

14. Even with help from the video tape to “get their story straight”, the FPD story is a shifting story that appears to be morph as needed to fit the facts of the moment.

TIME LINE

15. Kelly Thomas, an unarmed 150 lb aggressive pedestrian sitting on a bench, was beat to death by 6 FPD police officers on July 5, 2011; apparently with all their combined bulk, mussels and weapons, they just could not seem to get Kelly under control without beating him to death.

16. While the Orange Count DA started his investigation on July 7, 2011, no serious actions were noted until after a large protest outside the FPD on July 18, 2011 and after July 30, 2011 when the FBI started its investigation.

17. At some point between July 10, 2011 and July 30, 2011, Fullerton City tried to settle the case for $900,000, most likely financed by the UNIONS, to keep this incident under the rug, so to speak and probably to keep the FBI out of their files.

18. On August 2, 2011 the Fullerton City Council meeting was held that discussed the Kelly Thomas case. Just hours before this meeting, Five (5) of the six officers were FINALLY placed on paid leave (one officer was already on leave for a different reason) but only after the FPD and City Council realized that this case was not going away, Kelley’s father could not be bought off, and the FBI were going to investigate.

19. This timeline, coupled with the shifting story of the FPD, coupled with the documented culture of corruption of the FPD and the Fullerton City Council, the demonstrated policy of fraudulently creating police reports using videotape and rewriting to make such reports consistent, coupled with the attempt to bribe Kelly Thomas’s father to hide the Kelly Thomas case, I have little trouble concluding that the FPD, some Fullerton City Council members and the Police Union (aka “union thugs”) have NO HONOR and will do whatever it takes to see that these police officers are found innocent.

THE CHARGES

20. Ramos has been charged with one felony count of second degree murder, one felony count of involuntary manslaughter;

21. Jay Cicinelli one felony count of involuntary manslaughter and one felony count of the use of excessive force;

PARRALLELS to ISAIAH SIMMONS CASE

http://juvienation.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/charges-dismissed-in-isaiah-simmons-case/

22. Isaiah Simmons, a 17-year-old convicted of armed robbery, died at the Baltimore-area Bowling Brook Preparatory School, a privately run residential program for juvenile offenders. Following an outburst that day, Simmons was set upon by a group of counselors, who, according to the Baltimore Sun, “pinned him face down to the ground, restraining him for about three hours.” After Simmons lost consciousness, the guards waited forty-one minutes before calling 911;

23. The school was shut down in March, the death was ruled a homicide; On January 29, 2008, Carroll Court Circuit Judge Michael Galloway dismissed the last of the charges of reckless endangerment that had been filed against the counselors in the Simmons case.

24. Bowling Brook administrator Brian Hayden said in a prepared statement, “With this dismissal, Judge Galloway affirms that these gentlemen had nothing but the utmost concern for the safety and welfare of Isaiah, and they reacted as quickly and effectively as possible in an effort to avoid this tragedy.”

24b. Simmons’s mother, Felicia Wilson, said she was “devastated and outraged” that charges against the counselors were dismissed. “I have no faith in the Carroll County justice system,” she said. “I’m not going to stop fighting for justice for my son.” Wilson has called for federal charges, and prosecutors plan to file an appeal.

25. Kelly Thomas supports and the citizens of Fullerton should get ready for their “outrage” when these cops are set free.

26. Side note: Don’t think that police officers are not aware of this phenomenon where suspects die when the suspect’s chests are compressed for long periods of time. Thus, if you want to kill a suspect in an apparently nonviolent way, a way that is difficult to prove was murder, simply apply sufficient pressure to the suspect’s back until he becomes comatose (as was done in the Kelley Thomas case if one believes the corner’s reported cause of death). When you hear the suspect cry out that he can breathe, you know you’re getting the pressure right, and simply hold it for sufficient amount time.

THE TRIAL

The trial will likely be a choreographed scam. I would not even be surprised if the DA and the defense team for the police officers (financed by the union thugs) get together and meticulously choreograph what case law will be presented, the best rebuttals to the case law, and the theatrics that will be used during the trial.

As I see it now, the State’s case depends on whether or not the DA can convince a jury that Ramos was committing a crime during the arrest. If so, the murder charge should stick as it does not matter if the death was an accident or completely the fault of Ramos as a death results from a criminal act committed by Ramos.
In contrast, if the jury does not believe that Ramos was committing a crime during the arrest, then the cause of death becomes critical.

This is where the coroner’s report becomes important as it differs in a material way from the UIC Documents. The coroner’s report puts the cause of death as: “mechanical compression of the thorax making it impossible to breathe normally”. The UIC Documents stated that Kelly Thomas died of Blunt Force Trauma to the head (“brain death” due to “head trauma” due to “Assault”). MRI demonstrated diffused supratentorial gray matter infarction consistent with diffused anoxic brain injury.

Diffused anoxic brain injury is consistent with the conclusions of both the coroner and the UIC documents. The difference: if the UIC documents are correct, then Ramos and Cicinelli are guilty of murder as they clearly caused all the head trauma (although Wolfe did to one knee to the head). If the corner is correct, pressure on Kelly’s back cause the death; a cause that cannot be attributed to Ramos alone beyond a reasonable doubt. The corner, DA, union thugs, Fullerton City Council and FPD really had to get together to figure this path out which is why it took so long for the coroner’s report to be made public.

In the end, the trial will be a choreographed circus and the cops will go free because the selected cause of death could not be attributed to Ramos and Cicinelli, there will be outrage among Kelly Thomas supporters, and the Union thugs will get richer off the tax pay money.

If there is to be justice in in Fullerton, it is going to have to come from the people.

Behind Closed Doors Dead heads Dick Jones Don Bankhead Law N Disorder Patdown Pat McPension Repuglicanism Setting The Bar Low The Crime Beat Union Goons Watch Your Wallet

153 thoughts on “The Bill Of Indictment

    1. I believe that”exsanguination” or bleeding out will be an additional factor in cause of death . Went to bus terminal yesterday and you can still see Kelly’s blood in the concrete pavement….even after the rain! He isn’t going away, neither should we!!!

      1. Fedup;

        My brother and I went by the bus station as well, to just reflect on everything, and I am sorry we didn’t get to see you guys. I wish I could of hooked up with you because after going by an empty FPD area, I was depressed and down all day. Hope to see you guys soon…………

  1. Well written. The two will walk.

    But not due to any shenanigans. No OC jury is going to convict cops of anything.

    1. You both forget that the feds are also looking very close at this case. There is clear civil rights violations and they carry hefty prison terms.

    2. they aint going to walk- i dont care what happened in the past-stop being so ghoulish-this is now and its a different feeling then before – this is national and people are angry-especially ramos, they arent getting plead down-DA already said that-they arent going to walk and I would even venture to say the other 4 arent going to get away with shit either

  2. They better not walk. They need to be made an example of, and the FPD needs to be re-worked from the top down; to protect and serve those of us that pay them.

  3. Peckerwood Pete :
    You both forget that the feds are also looking very close at this case. There is clear civil rights violations and they carry hefty prison terms.

    I hope you right. Fullerton is a shining example what organizing behind a cause can do. No doubt these badged criminals and corrupt politicians are in every community. This people movement will inspire and spread reform and justice.

  4. merijoe :
    they aint going to walk- i dont care what happened in the past-stop being so ghoulish-this is now and its a different feeling then before – this is national and people are angry-especially ramos, they arent getting plead down-DA already said that-they arent going to walk and I would even venture to say the other 4 arent going to get away with shit either

    Ramos has much to offer. Ramos and his punks can blow up the power structure in Fullerton. The DAs afraid of the bosses and that is why he won’t deal. The DAs been ordered to implement the Final Solution in Fullerton. Delay, Delay and yes bury the case and until the Foolerton Fools stop whining and stay quiet.

  5. History will repeat itself. When the cops beat the charges, every city in the country will riot once again. Only then will the Feds jump in. Why aren’t they smart enough to realize this?

  6. R.D. :
    History will repeat itself. When the cops beat the charges, every city in the country will riot once again. Only then will the Feds jump in. Why aren’t they smart enough to realize this?

    The Feds are just as corrupt and more. Research the Whitey Bulger case in South Boston, Ma. The corrupt FBI hid theis mass serial killer in Santa Monica for 16 years in a rent controlled apt. on the beach until the victims families back here in Southie where I have lived all my life lost the legal right to sue the gov’t. They are more evil.
    Face the truth this is being covered up. SORRY GET USED TO IT.

  7. R.D. :
    History will repeat itself. When the cops beat the charges, every city in the country will riot once again. Only then will the Feds jump in. Why aren’t they smart enough to realize this?

    If they were dumb enough to put those cops on the force they aren’t smart enough to see what the consequences will be if they let them walk. These people think they are above the law and don’t listen to the people who pay their salaries.

    1. He should give a copy to each of Rincon and Wrens victims, assuming he can find all of them. I think 12 is just a start.

      1. Those so called victims you say… “THEY ARE THE CRIMINALS” …..low lifes criminals just know how to work the system and get away with it…..sad

  8. Murder through sitting on a person’s chest is called “Burking”. Two grave robbers practiced this method in their business of supplying corpses to doctors in the early 1800s.

    Compression was also used during medieval times, especially by the Inquisition.

    This is similar to waterboarding but without the water. The person cannot breathe.

  9. Simmons is right that if justice is to be done it is to come from the people of Fullerton. But it is not limited to the people of Fullerton. The people of Fullerton have thruought history had this impression that Fullerton was an out of the way place in the shadow of Los Angeles, Anaheim, Santa Ana, and even Orange. It was never true. Fullerton was always an important part of a greater community.

    When I first heard about the Kelly Thomas incident on KFI, I immediately called my cousin Sharon Kennedy at the Fullerton Observer to make sure that she was on the story. I called back soon to make sure that she knew that FFFF was being interviewed on John and Ken and suggested that she contact the John and Ken show and let them know what she was doing with the story.

    Sharon responded with insults both to John and Ken and to FFFF. I told her that I had spent the last two years learning about police work form posters on iepolitics. com and that I knew that the Kelly Thomas beatings were part of a trend that was at least regional.

    I never got to explain that one reasons I knew was the LATimes postings of the ACLU investigations of LA County central jail. I never got to explain my internet friend who had been fired for shooting a homeless man, although he blamed it on a previous occurance when he had sited a politician for DUI instead of the standard procedure of escorting him home.

    Sharon preemted me by telling me that there would be a two-month lull in the story while the DA conducted his investigation. She invited me to write a letter, but cautioned me to keep it to Fullerton.

    Lexipol is an organization that wrote the manuals by which to Fullerton Police are expected to abide by. The are dominent in the state of California in dictating police procedure and claim to have an influence in half of the states of the union. One of the founding executives of Lexipol is Bruce Praet. This is the same man who offered Ron Thomas $900,000 to go away and be quiet and warned him that if he did not, Bruce’s job would be to disparage the family relationship of the Thomas’ and the human wotrth of Kelly Thomas.

    Go back and review Ron Thomas’ report of this meeting, then investigate the nationwide influence of Lexipol.

    Gordon Graham is the police tactics expert behind Lexipol. He became interested in officer safety and exprapolated to risk manangement in police and fire departments. His first claim to fame was publishing a white paper on how Rodney King could have been taken down more efficiently. Read Gordon Graham’s papers, and then investigate Lexipol.

    John Cincinelli appeals to acting Fullerton Police Chief Hamilton that the actions of his brother against Kelly Thomas were lawful and that Hmilton knows that these types of deaths “just happen”. Read John Cincinelli’s comments, and then investigate Lexipol.

    I remember lying around the floor of the Kennedy home when I was 14, Rusty was 18, and my older brother and Rusty’s younger brother were both 16. No one else was there, perhaps the parents were at my house. We were debating all of the issues of the world. I know Vietnam was among them. I had already noticed in my life that my 16-year old brother. was beginning to out-logic many of the teachers at Fullerton High and my mother as well. In this conversation, I noticed my brother again and again dusting the logic of my 18-year old cousin. I noticed that my cousin’s humor wa used to deflect a point after he was beaten, and my brother’s humor was used to accentuate a point that was won.

    To this day a revere the intellect of Ralph Kennedy and of my older brother. I revere the accomplishments of many others in the family, but not the raw intellect.

    The flagship issue of the Kennedies, and the Brows along with them, has been race relations. Many years ago, I was chiding Rusty about our common grandmother, who had a derogatory comment about every race, even Cunnucks. Rusty responded that grandma did not bother him at all. He just viewed grandma as a person from a different time. Afterwards, I wondered when Rusty would just be viewed as a person from a different time.

    Sharon, Rusty, one of your father’s favorite slogans was “think globally, act locally”. This is an anacronism. It you follow this slogan, you will be irrealivant in this time. Fulleton is not issolated and its time in the national debate is now.

    You can face Lexipro, or be no more realivant than Ethel Luther was in her latter years.

    1. Steve, you have to understand (if you don’t, and you may) that Sharon and Rusty – like their father in his last years – are apologists for local government. It was really a reflexive reaction to the Great Recall of 1994 when (gasp) “outsiders,” i.e. people who had never served on one of the City’s stupid, footling committees had the effrontery to exert their (California) Constitutional authority. At heart Ralph really had little populist sentiments.

      Sharon picked up that ball and ran with it. Rusty is joined at the hip with the cops who write letters to the County asking for funding for his Human Relations Commission.

      The Kennedys have little interest in getting into government malfeasance, even if it is the cops committing crimes against civilians.

      This Lou Ponsi is in the same boat, and they all seem to have no gag reflexive action when listening to the fat, self-serving slob Goodrich peddle his bullshit.

      These people are all anachronisms. In five years nobody will bother with them at all. Rusty probably won’t even get funded by the County in 2012.

      FFFF was named best political blog in OC last year by the OC Weekly. Any bets they make it two in a row?

      1. Sharon Kennedy has never passed up an opportunity to try to hatchet Norby, Nelson, Bushala, Whitaker, etc.

        On the other hand she has given the exhausted Blankhead and the insufferable asshole Jones a free pass for over a decade.

        Shameful.

      2. The overarching goal is to stem police brutality and misconduct and end political corruption. The Observer and it’s liberal or progressive readers should get with the program. Feuding plays no useful purpose. Focus on what will be best for all Fullertonians.

        1. I have been reflecting lately, too, on how progressivism necessitates police powers. The more government dictates our daily activities, the more the progressives need the police to keep us in line.

          1. True enough. So what it boils down to is this: if you need to use the cops to enforce your ideas they are most likely bad.

          2. For example, our drug laws are largely a Republican invention. Those would be probably the main laws that necessitate constant policing of daily activities to enforce. The people most against drug laws are progressives, and Ron Paul-type libertarians. The problem is the “law and order” voter, not progressives.

  10. It now appears crucial that the cause of death be blunt force trauma to the head and not thoracic compression. Hopefully one or more doctors at UIC will do the right thing and get this corrected.

  11. the camera that recorded the incident is always pointed at the entrance of the slide bar Ive noticed.Would’nt this video if the police have it show Kelly preceding the incident in front of the slide bar? 30 minute before the altrication he was served food at the tuesday night tracks ministry. A Homeless man named ____ remembered serving him. A taxi that was a witness stated that he walked from the tunnel to the bus terminal right past his taxi preceding the altrication. I wonder if Kelly was even over at the slidebar at all within an hour of the incident.

    1. I have wondered for some time what was captured on camera July 5Th prior to the incident. If I recall correctly; the DA’s evidence is something like (30/31 minutes?) of video. Maybe the DA’s evidence contains the altercation (only)?

      Is there more footage available from that day?
      Was it reviewed?
      If so, what was on it; Kelly looking into or around any cars?

      Was there a phone call?
      Is there a phone record to verify it?

  12. The Fullerton Shadow concludes by stating:
    “If there is to be justice in in Fullerton, it is going to have to come from the people.”

    The “people” do have a means to change the course of this judicial charade. As I have explained in other “threads” on this website, one or more citizens of Fullerton can bring a Petition for Writ of Mandate against the District Attorney, to compel him to prosecute crimes whose probable cause is established as a matter of law, due to the DA’s “findings of fact” using nonhuman, ultrareliable sources of information.

    With all due respect to Steve Brow, “local action” is needed here. The resident citizens of Fullerton have the greatest “standing” in court to seek an injunction that involves Fullerton actors.

    Even were the Writ Petition unsuccessful, it would put Tony Rackauckas on the defensive. And it is high time that he start defending himself, rather than the uncharged FPD officers in this case. WSH

  13. “There is apparently a culture of corruption at the FPD including police officers that have been described/be charged as pickpockets, thieves, sexual predators, kidnappers, thugs, and murderers . . . all hired by former Fullerton Police Chief and now city council member Pat McKinley.” And let us not forget, that during Pat McKinley’s obviously too long stint as Fullerton’s police chief, he also was an active member of Rusty Kennedy’s Orange County Human Relations Commission (OCHRC). Rusty Kennedy,executive director of the OCHRC and long-time resident of Fullerton, is a familiar face at Fullerton’s city council meetings as he fervently pushes for a task force on the homeless in Fullerton. Kennedy and McKinley’s long-standing professional relationship and probably personal friendship suggests to me a conflict of interest and collusion to minimize the beating death of kelly thomas by McKinley’s hand-picked rogue cops.

  14. I’ve often said I would not be surprised if the DAs tanked the case. Across the country, on the rare occassions when a cop is prosecuted criminally, the conviction rate is pathetically low. Admittedly those union dues go to pay for the best possible defense conducted by otherwise-shunned by the rest of the defense lawyers – “specialists” in cop defense.

    PS – I see that the level of public outrage over this is being surpressed by the OCR now requiring Facebook entry to comment. So pig names can be kept from the public, but members of the public must reveal their real names to a corrupt police department for “scrutiny.” Sure glad I live in Cabo now! I can comment freely without concern of reprisal. LOL how their latest piece on the scum finally being placed on unpaid leave has so few comments.

    All the scumbag cops/knee pad wearing acolytes are now waxing on about how “civil” the discussion now is.

    Has Ruckus stated anything regarding the release of the video? Witness statements are all in. What’s the problem with releasing it now. And don’t say juror pollution. That’s bunk. It will be easy to find jurors that don’t know squat about the case and have not watched the video.

    1. I noticed the new intrusion into privacy by the OC Register. No other blog site, newspaper, media source that I’ve encountered requires persons to attach their name and often face to their comments/opinions about news articles. The atrophying OC Register confuses the truth with bullying, and due to this confusion, they foolishly stifle freedom of speech.
      This intrusion into privacy by the OC Register only further drives down their readership. And as evidenced by the triple digit bloggers on FFFF, increases the readership of FFFF.
      The indomitable human spirit will not let McKinley, Kennedy, Bankhead, Jones or the OC Register hide the truth about kelly thomas’ beating death.

  15. If the video tape is released for public viewing, it would be during the trial, I would think.
    Anything could happen judicilly.
    One term I’ve heard in the way of ‘law enforcement’ blab, is ‘special classification’.
    This entire case is a ‘special classification’ that only God knows what will come of it.
    Perhaps the DOJ will get so disgusted by all of this they may come down with Federal Indictments on all the mischievous officers.
    Perhaps they won’t do much at all aside from citing all of the civil rights violations.
    Based on the recent commentary from Judge Guilford concerning Officer Rincon and the FPD’s failure to take any punitive action leads me to believe the Feds will do some prosecuting to the ‘Bad Boyz’ of the FPD.

  16. after reading a couple comments here this morning, i am reminded that the coroner said the “OFFICIAL” cause of death was mechanical compression of the thorax – officers sitting on kelly so he couldn’t breathe. but the doctor at UCI said it was blunt force trauma. i believe there was pressure put on the coroner to pick compression as the official cause and not blunt force trauma. if it was blunt force trauma, they would only be able to charge cicinelli. but t-rack wanted to hang a lot on the words that ramos said. this is somewhat corroborated by the fact that the DA knew that the coroner’s report would “be out in two weeks or less”. it was out two weeks later exactly. the nice lady i spoke with at the DA’s office told me that they received the coroner’s report at 4pm or so, the day before the DA’s press conference. they knew what was in the report before it was out, because they didn’t need any time to reflect and investigate or process. but rather, they had a press conference announcing the charges the very next day.

  17. The indomitable human spirit will not let McKinley, Kennedy, Bankhead, Jones or the OC Register hide the truth about kelly thomas’ beating death.

    This is why we need to keep the pressure on and keep showing up on Saturdays. It is no longer just about the murder of Kelly Thomas, it is about the corruption that exists throughout the local government. It is up to us that live in the community to make the point that we won’t simply go away and shut up.

    1. and we wont, and that is why we take the truth to fullerton’s streets, we take the truth to this blog, we take the truth to fullerton’s city council meetings and shove it front of Mckinley, Bankhead, Jones, who vowed to protect our civil rights as our public servants, and then covered up the murder of a homeless man, and gross police misconduct and abuse by the fullerton police dept. It took the cries for his father from a dying kelly thomas , to cut down the pomposity of our public servants, McKinley, Jones and Bankhead, and to cut in half the fullerton police department to show its rotted core caused by McKinley.
      With our efforts to see justice done in fullerton, Kelly Thomas’ dying cries for mercy and help will not be our song.

  18. friend: “i believe there was pressure put on the coroner to pick compression as the official cause and not blunt force trauma.”

    Yes, I picked up on that immediately. Shady bastards.

  19. Has anyone else noticed that Kenton Hampton is seemingly a common denominator in all of the downtown beating, framing, and murder cases? From what has been presented, Fullerton officers rotate patrol areas. There seems, however, to be a core group of “enforcers” assigned to DTF on a continual basis who school the rest in debauchery.

    1. Right. And that’s why this all ties back to the disastrous decisions made by Bankhead and Jones to turn DTF into a war zone patrolled by a goon squad that really gets a kick out of throwing people around.

    2. Amazing-let me put on my big surprise face

      Hampton now has the distinction of being known as the poster child for fascist, piggy abuse

      award ceremony to follow

  20. StormHarbor: “Has anyone else noticed that Kenton Hampton is seemingly a common denominator in all of the downtown beating, framing, and murder cases?”

    Yes, and it seems they are really trying to keep it on the DL.

  21. Tony Raucacus let Corona off the hook, why not these officers also. The police shooting case dragged on for three years before that cop got off the hook. Why will Tony not drag his feet on this case also.

  22. THE MORON,

    FEDUP and I WILL BE THERE this next Saturday; even if it is only the two of us. I was also very dismayed to see the site empty. I do believe that FPD thinks our resolve has fizzled out. We need to remind them that this thing is not going away anytime soon, so I do hope to see you, your brother, Merijoe, Wrong Guy, and anyone else who cares to join our little group.
    We should be there around 11:00, and will also be there for John and Ken’s rally.
    Take care, and the best to all of you.

    1. will be there at 9 next saturday- I was there at around10:30-11 on saturday, saw no one and left-but will be there with my sign next sat at 9 with VW

  23. I have to agreed with Simmons. These guys will get off. T-Rack had no choice but to charge these 2. He should have charged all 6. A friend at the D.A.’s said they are going to go through the motions but it’s “Customary Acquiescence.” They will be punished lightly for their excess use of force and back on the job and the City of Fullerton will owe them their backpay. This stuff happens all the time and it’s swept under the rug but this time they did it to the wrong person. Kelly’s dad was a former officer of the law and if he didn’t push the issue it would have gone unnoticed. There have been so many cases in the last five years and the families are offered a little money for their losses and then move on. I wish some of the well known movie stars would get involved but they don’t want the problems that come with getting involved. I know they have taken down my plate number and are waiting on the side line to give a ticket the next time I drive down Harbor Blvd. This case will drag on until everyone forgets about it. The jury consultants will be hired and they will get people on the jury who are pro police and will acquit these two. Our system is far from perfect! I only wish I could be on the jury. The average juror has the education of a 5th grader.

  24. By Melissa MacBride

    NORTH HOLLYWOOD, LOS ANGELES (KABC) — A man in North Hollywood was shot and killed by L.A. police after he pointed what officials say was a rifle at officers.

    The shooting happened at Vineland Avenue and Valerio Street just before 5 a.m.

    LAPD Capt. Peter Whittingham said the department received calls about a man firing shots into the air in the area. Responding officers found a man fitting the description from those calls.

    When officers confronted him, they said he was armed with a rifle, which the man pointed but did not fire at officers.

    However, neighbor Miriam Barajas told Eyewitness News that the man, whom she identified as Julio Sandoval, was actually holding a BB gun – not a real gun. Barajas said Sandoval was the one who called police, told them he had a gun, and was waiting for them to arrive.

    Barajas said Sandoval had been drinking and was very depressed about his finances.

    When officers pulled up to the scene, they told Sandoval to show his hands, and that’s when the officers saw the gun and fired. Police shot Sandoval multiple times in the upper body. The number of rounds fired by the officers remains unclear.

    Sandoval was transported to an area hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

    Barajas said it took a very long time for the ambulance to arrive. Sandoval apparently told Barajas that he wanted the police to kill him, and that’s why he called to say that he had a gun.

    Neighbors said Sandoval’s 20-year-old son was outside when police arrived, and told them before the shooting that his father was holding a BB gun.

    “For us, it’s painful because we don’t expect them to just come and kill someone without trying to help the person, or trying to talk to him and see what’s the problem,” said Barajas, who added that Sandoval was the one and only person who called police Sunday morning.

    Barajas said Sandoval was her neighbor for 12 years and was the godfather of her four children. She said he lost his job and tried to start a business that had failed, adding to his depression.

    Sandoval leaves behind a wife and two kids, who were all home when the shooting happened.

    Police said the two officers involved in the shooting have been with the force for a little less than five years, and they’re based out of the North Hollywood station. The captain at the station described them as outstanding officers. No officers were injured in the incident.

    Vineland Avenue was closed between Valerio Street and Sherman Way as officers conducted their investigation.

    1. Not sure what your angle is on this Reality Is but Kelly Thomas was just minding his own business and not bothering anyone when he was beaten to death.

      He never posed a threat to himself, the public or officers that night. In fact he was very cooperative and let them search his belongings.

      1. I disagree on everything you said. I think he contributed to the end result. I don’t feel he should have been killed. Trial will explain the rest.

        1. I disagree on everything you said.

          That is a bit vague. What exactly do you disagree with?

          I’ll break down what I said and you can pick which parts you disagree with…

          – Kelly Thomas was just minding his own business

          – Not bothering anyone

          – He never posed a threat to himself, the public or officers that night

          – he was very cooperative and let them search his belongings

          1. I think he was inside of cars.

            If it was my car, he’s bothering me.

            Refusing to comply and running caused the end result.

            Not cooperative at all.

            Trial will show the rest.

  25. 9c1copcar :
    We need to remind them that this thing is not going away anytime soon, so I do hope to see you, your brother, Merijoe, Wrong Guy, and anyone else who cares to join our little group.
    We should be there around 11:00, and will also be there for John and Ken’s rally.
    Take care, and the best to all of you.

    Good, but we had set 9:00am in the other thread. Just sayin’; if you can’t make it untill 11 that’s fine too but at least two of us will be there at 9.

  26. True. A few weeks ago all the marijuana activists would have preached that their activism has led to the legalization of marijuana. Now after the last few days, they are worse off then before. Reality always prevails.

    Jt :
    For example, our drug laws are largely a Republican invention. Those would be probably the main laws that necessitate constant policing of daily activities to enforce. The people most against drug laws are progressives, and Ron Paul-type libertarians. The problem is the “law and order” voter, not progressives.

    1. “Reality always prevails.”

      Real leaders and movements create their own reality.

      Inertia is hard to overcome, but your Three Demented Clowns and their Culture of Corruption are going to be recalled. That’s the new reality. Learn to like it.

  27. Jt :
    For example, our drug laws are largely a Republican invention. Those would be probably the main laws that necessitate constant policing of daily activities to enforce. The people most against drug laws are progressives, and Ron Paul-type libertarians. The problem is the “law and order” voter, not progressives.

    Um, you must have missed the Clinton and Obammy War on Drugs. It’s still going on.

    1. Hardly. I am watching Obama’s war on drug as we speak. However, neither Clinton nor Obama even remotely resemble progressives.

      The War on Drugs started with Nixon, lost a little momentum with Carter, though not much, and was ramped up by Reagan and Bush. True progressives, like Dennis Kucinich or Ralph Nader are far closer to Ron Paul’s position.

      Obama and supporters are not progressives, they are corporatist centrists.

  28. #62 Reply to Reality Is:
    This has NOTHING to do with the Kelly Thomas case. This is what is called Suicide by Cop. He called police and said he had a rifle. He did not say its a BB gun. He wanted to be killed. Sad but true. I feel bad for the two officers who arrived at the scene.
    Now in Fullerton they would have shot him and anyone else around and ticketed the bystanders + stole their I-pads, busted their cameras and cell phones if taking pictures. That is the difference. Oh and had sexual relations with any of the local streetwalkers.
    Big difference. And to make you all feel better, its amazing that an officer with only 6 years experience and NO promotions gets $89,000 per year + overtime in Fullerfleece the taxpayer PD.

    1. That pay rate is the same statewide. Actually Fullerton is less. They are at the median of OC agencies. Try paying Fullerton 40% less. Let me know how it goes.

  29. Screw the pay rate; if the people we elect to represent us do it wrong they have to be held accountable. I agree that the public pension system needs to be addressed, but this is more important than just that. Our community needs to be protected and represented properly; nothing more nothing less.

    …as far as officer Hampton is concerned, I have dealt with him personally on no less than 3 occasions and I will vouch for him…he has never treated me wrongly. It is the protocol that needs to change. We all live here and as such we all have a responsibility to hold the people we elect and pay to a certain standard.

    The F troupe needs to go, and I alone will shout that from the mountain tops even if the rest of you do not.

    We can change it or we can go away…at this point it is your choice.

    I hope to see you all this Saturday at 9:00am.
    Please show up on Saturday and show that we are all on the same page.

    1. True. Pay rate and pension will always be consistent statewide. The new hires are changing already in the pension system which will be statewide.

      The issue with DTF is the numerous drunks. Fights are a normal occurrence. The badass cops that handle the drunks fighting quick are the ones names brought up most. That’s going to happen even if you change the cops placed there. Aggressive shit talking drunks will always end up refusing to stop fighting and remain aggressive. Force will be a normal occurrence as well. It’s normal in all bar areas. Drunks are a pain in the ass. As long as the proper use of force is used, everything will be great.

  30. If your world view is small and limited, you can begin to think that all there is to reality is your own limited experience and world view.

    1. Never said that. But you touched on it. We all think our views are the right views when in actuality it’s somewhere in the middle. Its not your way, not Tonys way, not my way. It’s somewhere that has a mix of the three. That’s what is hard for people to accept.

  31. If your world view is small and limited, you can begin to think that all there is to reality is your own limited experience and world view. The reality is, there appears to be a very concrete way of seeing things and limited ability for abstract reasoning among police and city officials in Fullerton.

  32. @Reality Is: You are muddying the water. What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong, I am not disputing that. Let us not dispute fundamentals.

    I live and breathe right here in Fullerton, down to knowing the owner(s) of the Slidebar. But this has no relevance here; we are in for the common good of the citizens here, myself and my kids included.

    Be a part of the solution and not the problem. :beer:

    Show up in person and disagree with me on Saturday, I look forward to it.

  33. Kelly Thomas died because he was beaten by a group of 6 Fullerton police officers. If his homelessness, mental illness, or even so-called suspicion of burglary played a role in his death it has to do with the perspective and the motives of the police officers who will make as a target of their brutality someone who has less social power, lower perceived social status, is marginalized and disenfranchised, who is powerless, and who has no real voice and they do this because–-they can. They see someone like Kelly Thomas as worthless and disposable, someone who is not credible in the event that they survive a brutal beating and are less likely to be believed even if they have the resilience to step forward and speak up. They choose vulnerable people who they see as nonthreatening to THEM. It is what makes it particularly despicable, really. They are cowardly bullies, only worse, because carry weapons, act under color of authority, and take it to the extreme.

    1. I disagree. I don’t think this end result was planned and I don’t think anyone involved felt he would die even days after it was all over. I don’t think anyone involved wanted anyone to ever die. Did they feel he ran and resisted and that force was legally justified? Yes. That will all come out in court. Incidents like this will always happen. There will always be two extreme sides. Justice system will dictate the punishment. We will never agree that this was intentional and planned and that these cops all wanted to kill someone. Vulnerable people isn’t true. I’ve seen rich people, poor people, drunk people, sober people all get force used on them. They dictate the extent of force, and yes sometimes not enough force is used, sometimes the right amount, and sometimes too much. Determining that will always be debatable.

      1. I’m not talking about what they wanted to do, I’m talking about what they did. That wasn’t just excessive force, it was extreme brutality. Furthermore, you will not convince me that FPD will brutalize someone they know to be wealthy or who has social power or higher perceived social status. That is not what is happening there. Someone drunk, perhaps, because of the lack of credibility of an intoxicated person and because they can argue that their “resistance” was caused by intoxication and that their “resisting arrest” is what caused the excessive force. They will always go with a victim blaming stance.

        1. isn’t that why they stalled, waiting for the tox report? hoping kelly had something in his system to blame ??

          1. Yes, I suspect they were hoping to find something in his system. Too bad they did not do a full panel alcohol and drug screen on the six officers. It should be required any time an arrest gets that out of hand and the suspect/victim ends up being treated at a hospital or, worse, dead. They should also consider frequent, random drug/alcohol screens of FPD.

        2. True. Drunks are from all wealth levels though. Drunks half the time don’t remember what the hell happened. It’s hard for a drunk that assaulted a person or a cop, that gets arrested, to then claim abuse. Most people don’t even listen, including attorneys.

      2. … Until we change the rules on how much force is allowable, when it may be used or not, how transparent any resulting internal investigations are, and who the entire police department are accountable to.

  34. so are you saying it is normal procedure to beat a suspect in the face ?? to the extent of kellys???
    ofc c had to know the damage he was inflicting..
    is there not a point that you realize that, and stop??? he had to feel the bones breaking..

    the whole thing sickens me..

    1. I would not argue that the procedure is considered “normal” for FPD officers. It does, in fact, appear to be standard procedure. Therein lies the problem. A very big problem if you live in Fullerton, I’d say. Furthermore, it appears that FPD employs incompetent and poorly trained officers, perhaps because the people doing the hiring are also incompetent and poorly trained.

          1. I don’t think so. So far appears just an inside FBI DoJ deal who found a deputy about to claim bankruptcy and quit, willing to take $5,000 to give a cell phone to a working inmate.

  35. If Kelly Thomas had not died, the brutality of the beating would have still been criminal. That’s the point. I also think that FPD has a culture that condones abusive behavior towards it’s citizens. Thomas, Quinonez, Ramirez, Martinez, Mam, and at least twelve women are examples. If these are the cases that have come to light then there are many more that have not. And while that kind of behavior among LE in Fullerton and Orange County may be considered “normal” because that’s they it’s done and that’s the way it has always been done, it does not follow that it is right and, furthermore, it does not mean that’s the way it is done everywhere, because it’s not. Just because something is a norm does not mean it is good or right or just. That is also the point. All the debate in the world about the exact cause of death will not change the fact that Kelly Thomas was brutally and fatally beaten and that it was wrong. He died as a direct result of that interaction with those 6 officers.

    1. True. I think it’s always been very easy for cops to get away with using more force than necessary when it comes to criminals. Always hard for criminals and liars and thieves to cry foul after they plead guilty to the original crime. Also why it’s always been hard for inmates to claim abuse while locked up.

      I also think if Kelly wouldn’t have died this would have been a big nothing case. For one his dad probably would have never known or cared. Not sure if Fullerton brass allowed force or just weren’t aware of the extent it occurred. We will find out in a year I’m sure.

      1. i don’t agree that this would have been a nothing case, way too brutal in my opinion…

        and i don’t agree with ron not caring, he went out all the time to check on kelly…

        1. All the time? Where you getting that from? You will hear in trial from people that called Ron and he said he didn’t care and don’t call him again.

          1. It doesn’t matter whether they checked on him or not, cared about him or not. Again, that is a ploy to fog the issue. Whether or not his family cared about him had absolutely nothing to do with the actions of the six officers who beat him to death. Pay attention to when someone starts throwing that in about whether his father cared about him–it means they don’t have any real, logical argument so they throw in something like that; sometimes it is effective because it gets people off track.

          2. Hopefully a judge will not allow a discussion of whether his family cared about him since it is irrelevant to the actions of the F6 that fatal evening. Frankly, I would even say, okay, let’s say they didn’t care about him? What’s that got to do with the F6? Except that, again, they might be more likely to choose to beat the hell out of someone who doesn’t have anyone who will stand up for them or even find out about it. So that’s indirect, but it only points to the motives of the police officers.

          3. “You will hear in trial from people that called Ron and he said he didn’t care and don’t call him again.”

            This is called a “Red Herring” in logic, and a fallacy.

            While an argument might have some merit, it does not address the original question or argument:

            Kelly Thomas was an unarmed person who was “unlawfully” beaten to death by the FPD.

      2. Yes, it may have been a “nothing case” if no one had found out about it. That’s another good point that supports my arguments. The fact that it ended in a death is what made it notable and that’s what brought all the attention. Again, blaming criminals for being abused and beaten by LE is victim blaming and a ploy, really, to take the focus off the issue. Furthermore, whether Kelly’s father knew or cared what happened to him does not change anything; that is another ploy to fog the issue, which is the brutality of the FPD. Some people don’t have family that cares. Does that mean they deserve to be treated with brutality? No. But frankly, I do think that those officers are more likely to beat the life out of some homeless, mentally ill person who they probably assume doesn’t have anyone who cares about them because then it is less likely to come to light and it will therefore be a “nothing case.” I wonder how many “nothing cases” there are in Fullerton. Your way of arguing things reinforces exactly what I am talking about.

        1. True. Just saying that’s what happens. Not just in Fullerton. Everywhere. LA is 100 times worse. Just easier to pick cases in towns like Fullerton.

          I’m glad I could help your reinforcement.

          1. Yes, it does appear that the culture of police brutality and corruption extends to other areas of California. Again, just because that’s the way it is out there does not mean that’s they way it is everywhere and does not make it right. That is not to say it does not happen elsewhere, because it does. Wherever it happens, it is not a good thing.

  36. Everytime. That would be nice but unrealistic. Every death? Possible. But in this case that would have been sold 3-4 days after the incident so most things would be out of the system. Drug testing of cops is a very uncommon occurrence.

    blessusall :
    Yes, I suspect they were hoping to find something in his system. Too bad they did not do a full panel alcohol and drug screen on the six officers. It should be required any time an arrest gets that out of hand and the suspect/victim ends up being treated at a hospital or, worse, dead. They should also consider frequent, random drug/alcohol screens of FPD.

    1. It should have been required as soon as an ambulance had to be called to the scene. But I agree that it would not happen at FPD.

  37. Agreed. Always said an unrelated issue. You brought up his name. I just continued using it.

    blessusall :
    It doesn’t matter whether they checked on him or not, cared about him or not. Again, that is a ploy to fog the issue. Whether or not his family cared about him had absolutely nothing to do with the actions of the six officers who beat him to death. Pay attention to when someone starts throwing that in about whether his father cared about him–it means they don’t have any real, logical argument so they throw in something like that; sometimes it is effective because it gets people off track.

    1. You brought up his “father” in #104. I would not have brought it up because I don’t think his father has anything to do with the actions of the F6. I have noticed, however, the tendency to throw in about whether his family cared about his, checked on him, or are “in it for the money” in the face of strong logical arguments. It’s called fogging the issue. None of those things make any difference whatsoever, they just get people off track.

      1. I see them all as separate issues. How his family wanted nothing to do with him is one. Kelly being beat to death is another. Family getting $20 million is another, due to #1.

    2. That “you brought up his name” is another ploy I’ve see you use. You brought in these extraneous points, including that his dad didn’t care, and I then responded directly to that.

  38. blessusall :
    Yes, I suspect they were hoping to find something in his system. Too bad they did not do a full panel alcohol and drug screen on the six officers. It should be required any time an arrest gets that out of hand and the suspect/victim ends up being treated at a hospital or, worse, dead. They should also consider frequent, random drug/alcohol screens of FPD.

    yes, drug testing is a requirement for so many jobs now, it really should be one if you carry a weapon

    1. It sounds easy. It’s not so easy. It would have to be part of POBR or there would have to be such a strong chain of custody and testing, very expensive, to avoid intentional fraud by politicians, or people out to get the cops being tested. That’s what will prevent it from ever happening on a consistent basis.

      1. No, it is actually really easy. Pull your penis out, pee in a cup under supervision.
        DONE.
        We all do it, why cant Cops?
        Too expensive? Slash the number of cops (root out the bad ones, that should be the easy part), buy less armored vehicles, machine guns, tear gas, and tasers.
        DONE

      2. It’s not that expensive, actually. I worked in a substance abuse treatment programs, private and public. Tons of random drug screens daily. As far as chain of custody and intentional fraud, criminals say the exact same thing about any screens or labs done on them as part of a criminal case but the police still do them. Police are distrustful of the process because…uh, well, maybe THEY are corrupt and lie and cheat and out to get people. It is possible to have a good, fair drug screen policy in a place of employment, including a police department. It is done all the time in many, many places and it can be useful and effective.

        1. Probably true. It can be done. It’s the process and expense that would be the parts hard to agree on. It’s not as easy as saying do it. As you know, the unions are the key. I also wouldn’t ever agree to it without a very strict independent middle lab. Is that because I’m thinking how criminals do? No. It’s because of athletics. All of the mistakes in that field that pays huge dollars and have strict monitoring, prove that it happens. The Taurasi story is an example. She said without her millions and millions she would have had to plead guilty and end her career. I have no problem with doing it, I think we should, I just think agreeing on a process would be tough and expensive.

          1. There are ways to do it that are fair and reliable. There may be resistance at first but eventually it becomes routine. There will not be huge numbers of false positive. More likely to get false negatives, actually, so those folks will slip by every once in a while. Yes, independent lab is a good idea and there are plenty of them. I am beginning to think that California is way behind the times and corruption is rampant and if that’s all you know, I can see why someone would not trust the process.

            1. You are probably right. I have never heard of it all in LE out here. I learned on this blog my old agency does test “pee police” but not too often. Anything is possible.

            2. In some cities, like mine, all city employees, including school system and LE, are subject to drug screens, pre-employment, for cause, and random. But it is pretty much also standard practice at private places of employment, too. DOT has very strict guidelines for drug screening. Where I come from, people are not automatically fired for dirty screens. In fact, the employer must offer assistance if it is determined the person has a substance abuse problem in the form of treatment, which is usually an outpatient program so the person can conceivably continue to work while in treatment. It creates a safer environment really (I work in a hospital). Believe me, I wish I could request drug screens of anyone who will be performing surgery on me, giving me anesthesia, piloting a plane I am on, driving the school bus I my daughter is on, etc., although I haven’t gone that far yet. People carrying guns as part of the jobs ought to be required. I have treated police officers, school bus drivers, doctors and nurses, construction workers, plumbers, artists, nuclear power plant construction workers (scary) etc. for addiction. And for the most part, they were all glad for the treatment when all was said and done and their lives were better AND they still had their jobs.

              1. Makes sense. Makes you wonder why it isn’t the norm for all public or liability jobs. I think it comes down to expense.

  39. still loves fullerton-Bingo! but the fascist nazi piggies are a special class of human and nothing legally or morally applies to them like it would to you and I because they have such a “special” job

    1. You knew that long ago. Your stance will never change and the way things are done statewide will never change. There will always be piggies that use excessive force and figuring them out and holding them responsible will be something in progress until we both die.

    1. Cameras aren’t a new concept. They have been around for years. Do you think that any Fullerton cop is going to do anything outside the lines now? Nope. They know Tony and his army are around waiting to pounce. That’s good too. They will be in line forever now. Problem solved. Now move to another city and you might catch something you want to catch. Or I might catch you on mine. 🙂

      1. small portable video cams and youtube are a new concept as are the new technology strides enabling information to get around the world in seconds-snap. you irrelevant nazi-and we in other cities other than fullerton, are quite aware of keeping hypervigilant against the gestapo (you-so you say, but i dont believe)

  40. Normally you might be right. But in this case every family member will be brought in and will have to testify. They won’t have a choice. His past and the family’s relationship with him will be brought out step by step in trial. It will be used to prove and show his violent nature. It will be a big part of the trial, proving that he was dangerous and instilled fear in even his own family. So yes, I see what you are saying, but it won’t happen. They will be dragged through the mud for weeks.

    blessusall :
    Hopefully a judge will not allow a discussion of whether his family cared about him since it is irrelevant to the actions of the F6 that fatal evening. Frankly, I would even say, okay, let’s say they didn’t care about him? What’s that got to do with the F6? Except that, again, they might be more likely to choose to beat the hell out of someone who doesn’t have anyone who will stand up for them or even find out about it. So that’s indirect, but it only points to the motives of the police officers.

  41. Feds and U.S. Dept. of Justices crack down on police brutality nationwide. The Justice Department to investigate police here in Fullerton, CA for civil rights violations.

    How to File a Complaint with DOJ about Fullerton police brutality and officials corruption
    http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/spl/documents/polmis.php

    Jonathan M. Smith
    Chief
    Special Litigation Section
    (202) 514-6255
    toll-free at (877) 218-5228

    FAX – (202) 514-0212
    FAX – (202) 514-6273

    Email – [email protected]

    Thomas Kelly’s dead, beaten to dead, but his soul is alive. He was the soul of an idea for many people who want to do things better, differently.
    We have to prosecute all the murders and its protectors.
    We have to recall these morally bankrupted politicans and city cronies.
    We have to get rid all the morally corrupted leaders and gool old boy clubs for good.
    These corrupted leaders are only interested in themselves, not us.
    Nobody can change but ourselves. It is about time.

    1. I have heard that Mr. Smith is aware of the problems with Fullerton PD and Civil Rights Division is keeping an eye on it. But I strongly agree, sending a well-written letter to Mr. Smith to request a comprehensive investigation of FPD is well worth your time.

      It would be nice if some of our elected officials also wrote such a letter. Whitaker? Norby? Quirk-Silva?

      1. Jt;
        My sense telling me that justice for Kelly Thomas and people will be a lost causes. They will make a generous offer. Scapegoats to calm people with slap on the wrists.
        As story unfold in front of our eyes, I never trust anything comes out from these elected officials, O.C. DA and its cronies.
        My research lead me to a right people but we need the expertises.
        Guide me, I will do it in a heartbeat and to the best of my ability. No question to ask. This is the only way I know how. Very frustrating.

  42. Jane H :“You will hear in trial from people that called Ron and he said he didn’t care and don’t call him again.”
    This is called a “Red Herring” in logic, and a fallacy.
    While an argument might have some merit, it does not address the original question or argument:
    Kelly Thomas was an unarmed person who was “unlawfully” beaten to death by the FPD.

    A victim blaming stance that takes the focus off the real issue. It is a ploy to trigger an emotional reaction that detracts from the issue at hand. Also called “fogging the issue.” It’s a strategy that has nothing to do with logic, often employed by people who have limited capacity for abstract reasoning.

  43. have questions for tony b. or chris. what is the story on protests? are john and ken still coming? the momentum is slipping away from we the good people that want real justice…………………… please respond……….

  44. bob :
    have questions for tony b. or chris. what is the story on protests? are john and ken still coming? the momentum is slipping away from we the good people that want real justice…………………… please respond……….

    John and Ken will be here next Wednesday for their whole show.

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