Disband the FPD?

We're from FPD and we're here to help.

In the wake of a rolling tsunami of scandals, cover-ups, and abuse of its own citizens I have been hearing increased calls to disband the department altogether and bring in the Orange County Sheriff’s Department.

Apparently the issue is not just FPD-fatigue and the brutal costs their misbehavin’ is going to cost the taxpayers; nor even police misconduct in general – since the OCSD has had its own share of bad behavior in recent years.

Anything you can do I can do better...

No, the prime motivation will be the comparatively low cost per capita that the OCSD charges its contract city partners for varying levels of service. Some have said that the City could easily save the General Fund $10-15 million a year, and that’s nothing to sneeze at.

Former Fullerton councilmember and current County Supervisor Shawn Nelson would be in a perfect position to help broker this deal

So could we be seeing the streets of Fullerton patrolled by guys in green? Perhaps. Why not? The current police force has disgraced itself so badly in the past few moths that from a public relations standpoint there would never be a better time.

126 Replies to “Disband the FPD?”

  1. I wish I could get excited about this but O.C. or L.A. County Sheriff’s departments have the same percentage of J-Cat police officers in all ranks.

  2. The same percentage of corrupt officers as there is in FPD. That is a great deal of corruption, considering the good cops get sucked into the bad with the ‘Code of Silence’. The good cops get labeled as snitches whenever they complain about the heavy-handed tactics of the scum and get the silent treatment and no consideration for a promotion. Therefore, we got a screwed up criminal system whereby law enforcement prevails with as many crimes as they could commit.

    1. I’m starting to suspect that BtB is actually Tony posting nonsense just to liven up the discussion. I don’t believe any sane human actually believes anything BtB says.

    2. Pretty sure Fullerton has already lost control of the police department. Hence the protests, recalls, etc.

    3. we have no control now. wake up. even better go out on disability and take a job as a bouncer at the gin mill that killed this man.

  3. Great news. Saving tax payers money is always good news and the 10-15M FPD premium is not worth it since both FPD and County Sheriff’s dept. are about the same. Why pay more for corrupt cops when you pay less for corrupt cops. Also aren’t sheriffs elected every couple/few years. That’s some accountability at least. Towns all across the country are taking this route because of budget AND corruption concerns.

  4. I’d prefer we maintain local control. Check every personnel file and fire every officer with complaints about abuse, excessive force, etc. Find a new chief, not from OC, with a record of progressive, compassionate, community-oriented policing. Put together a civilian oversight committee with real power. Put in stringent rules on the use of force. Become a model department and regain the trust and respect of the community.

    1. There is no local control JT. That is the myth. This mess will take years to clear up in Fullerton and because of the 3 @ 50 retirement, by the time things do get cleaned up the leadership responsible will be out the door.

      We need to have an informed discussion here in Fullerton (so does every other city) about how much we spend for police protection. If the cost to go Sheriff is close maybe we fix our problems in house.

      What if the cost savings to switch to the Sheriff turns out to be millions per year? What if it’s over $5 million per year? At those levels we would have no reasonable choice but to switch.

      P.S. Cities that switch to the Sheriff dont get hit for lawsuits when they are lost.

    2. That would be a reasonable fix, but also cut down on the amount of officers it employs. I believe the more cops on the street, the more trouble on the streets.

    3. That would be a reasonable fix, but also cut down on the amount of officers it employs. I believe the more cops on the street, the more trouble on the streets.

  5. Rock, meet hard place. To pile on a cliche, it’s one of those damned if you do, damned if you don’t arguments. If you can’t do worse, then go for it. It would send a great message to the union.

    1. Jeez, as trolls go, you’re worse than Reality “IS”. If you’re gonna try to bait, come up with something more original than everything is “FINE”?

      Every one of your posts: “Our FINE police. Our FINE D.A.” Newsflash, there already is no accountability or responsibility.

      Where’s our FINE Chief Sellers? Where are the FINE Fullerton 6? When next election comes around where do you think our FINE city officials will end up?

      1. What he means is if we lose our fine tampons, it’ll get really messy.

        Not that it isn’t messy already, but that’s his cop troll logic hard at work.

  6. This is a catch 22. Why can’t California politicians realize that we need reform in all forms of civil service in this state? Corruption is rampant. We need better eyes watching the cops that are watching us, after all we pay for it..

  7. Grover C. this is a really lame post. We want to keep our cops, thank you. Note to Tony, Chris, Greg, and Bruce you are really starting to piss off the silent majority that makes up the voters who count in this town. One man’s money isn’t going to do what he thinks.

    1. The silent majority? Maybe in your little world. Why don’t you stop some folks at the supermarket and ask what they think about about Kelly Thomas and the FPD.

    2. havegun, we can only determine if we “want to keep our cops” if we know what the cost is for doing so. Tony Bushala has nothing to do with the cost of the police or sheriff.

      1. willtravel, are you referring to the silent majority within the FPD or just making stuff up like the other thugs in blue?

    3. havegunwilltravel on August 24, 2011
      Grover C. this is a really lame post. We want to keep our cops, thank you. Note to Tony, Chris, Greg, and Bruce you are really starting to piss off the silent majority that makes up the voters who count in this town. One man’s money isn’t going to do what he thinks.

      Really? Where is this “silent majority,” and why do they need YOU to speak for them. Can’t they speak for themselves? The only apparent voices this “silent majority” seems to have is a half dozen FPD trolls posting here under multiple handles. Since when did the FPD become the voice of We The People? Just curious.

      1. The conservative old white folks don’t blog here. That’s who is gonna make that big difference. They control this town, not you!!

          1. Hispanics and Blacks don’t vote, just geriatric conservative whites, LOL.

            Please remind me who the President of the United States is?

            If you answer correctly, you can try again.

  8. This is a great idea Tony, if we controlled the PD we could get your brothers hit and run case dissmissed. I see he’s has a jury trial next month. Looks like the “do nothing DA” did something.

    1. Yeah, no witness, no evidence, no case. Good luck with this one Goodrich. Another black-eye is coming your way.

  9. J. Donut, I have. They think Ron Thomas is an opportunistic fraud who is trying to make a pile of money off his loser son. And they don’t think a lot about the homeless, they just want them to move on. Perhaps you should try some supermarkets in the city……

    1. I’ve heard less severe comments along those lines too, but I also hear absolute outrage from other people.

      The biggest misunderstanding people seem to have is that they think Ron Thomas could have forced his son to take his medications so he would not have been on the streets at all. As I understand it people cannot do this in California. There is a big split in the mental health community about whether or not a law allowing forced medications should be adopted, but as it stands if a client, as they are known, does not want to take medications then they cannot be forced to do so. This misperception leads people to ask what the Thomas family was doing while their son roamed the streets, so they assume that his father must only be motivated by guilt or the prospect of money.

      I’ve also heard people defend the police who beat Kelly Thomas to death. It’s hard for me to imagine how repeated blows to the head were justified, but there are always people who jump to the side of authority no matter the situation. I suppose that’s how someone like Pat McKinley, who is all but useless as a city councilman, can get elected.

        1. Cool, I hear the weather is just lovely this time of year.

          I ever tell you guys about when I went fishing with frags?

          Long story short, I couldn’t figure out how the darn things worked and someone told me to pull the pen. I did attempt to find the pen by putting the frag to some paper and scribbled vigorously, yet no ink came out so I just scratched my head for a couple of hours and called it a day.

  10. This is just a repost of a comment on the OC Weekly Blog: http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2011/08/slidebar_kelly_thomas_call_police.php#comment-294269290

    Jeremy Popoff is in serious trouble. The FBI is going to get a search warrant for the phone records from the Slide Bar very soon. If they haven’t already.

    We know that the Slide Bar is a cop hangout. For all we know, Jay Cicinelli might have even been a regular there. Everyone has always suspected that a local business must have been “coached” into making a fake call to the police claiming a more serious crime, so they would have an excuse to go there and “remove” Kelly Thomas. Since a homeless person loitering across the street wouldn’t have been enough. Jeremy Popoff talked with one of his cop buddies and asked how he could get rid of Kelly Thomas once and for all. And they told him that he would have to call something more serious in. So he made the fake call from a back office, claiming that “someone was trying to break into cars”…and of course he called the non-emergency dispatch number, so there would not be a 911 recording. I’m sure he was told how to do this by the cops.

    Again, the Slide Bar is known to be a hang out for cops. So you can bet that Jeremy Popoff knew the officers who patrolled that area, and he knew darn well that at least some of them were capable of being violent. It’s possible he even knew Kenton Hampton and Jay Cicinelli personally. Or at least he knew them or their friends as patrons at his bar. So when he made the fake call about the car break-ins (which didn’t exist), he knew something ugly was probably going to happen. But he didn’t care what happened to Kelly Thomas, so long as he was out of sight. Jeremy Popoff didn’t directly cause the murder of Kelly Thomas, but he definitely did indirectly contribute to it, by making a false police report even though he probably knew full well how corrupt the FPD was.

    He is also lying about how Kelly “intimidated” customers at the Slide Bar. That is complete and utter BS. And the proof of it comes from one of Jeremy’s own employees. I was contacted by someone who was in the Slide Bar recently, and he had asked a bar tender if “street people” were a major problem there. The bar tender said NO for several reasons…one of which was because very little of their patio area is actually street-side. Also, the bar is always very busy and loud, and a timid street person is extremely unlikely to even bother going inside.

    By the way…a person can only sue for “libel” if the statements are FALSE. So far, none of the statements people are saying about Jeremy Popoff are false. And once we finally see the entire truth to this shocking story, you’ll have proof of that. Jeremy Popoff made a call to the Fullerton Police Department, claiming something that did not happen. And the real reason is because he wanted Kelly Thomas “removed” by whatever means necessary.

    I think that when we finally get to the bottom of this, the real story is going to be even more shocking and disgusting than we can possibly imagine.

  11. One of my thoughful police sources suggested the same. He said that there would be no difference in the actions of the rank and file officers on the street, but that in this day and age there was no excuse for duplicating the overhead cost of a chief and command structure in every mid-sized city.

    He pointed out that in all of South Orange County, the OC Sheriff patroling the cities is the norm.

  12. Come on- let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water. The sheriff’s dept is very calculating in the way they take advantage of contract cities. They low ball the initial contract price to get their foot in the door and then, after the local PD is disbanded, they begin to substantially increase the subsequent contracts until you are paying at about the same rate as before when you had a local P.D. By then, you can never go back to a local PD because startup costs are prohibitive and then the sheriffs department has you by the shorthairs. I agree with havegunwilltravel- the FFFF blogger has a personal agenda here with FPD and the city and wants everyone to jump on the train- be careful what you wish for. Bring in a no BS reformer from the OUTSIDE to clean house and streamline the FPD and appoint a commission for oversight. The Sheriff’s dept is a parasite that will suck the blood out of it’s host. You are seeing what a bang up job that other stellar OC agency- the DA is doing- why expect any thing else from another county agency.

    1. BS. The OCSD is serving all the cities of South County Villa Park, and Stanton, and doing it a lot less expensively than what the other cities pay to have their own police departments. Its the wave of the future. Embrace it. Love it.

      Go Big Green!

    2. Totally agree with your analysis however I’d like to add that I believe that compelling officers to live within our city, would also go a long way to help fixing the problems that we have here with accountablity of our existing Fullerton police officers. “I’m going to beat you like a borrowed mule” would cease to exist in our police officer’s vernacular if they were speaking to their own neighbor’s.

      1. Fullerton, your idea is a bit idealistic. No cop generally wants to live in the city he works in, for officer safety reasons. You have seen on this site the posting of the 6’s addresses….not good!

    3. justice..Exactly…As Yorba Linda..They had OCSD for years and had them kicked out because the lack of responses, they would never show up to citizens calls and very bad service. They eventually got Brea Pd to enforce their city. All you are asking is for trouble if you want this. The good citizens of Fullerton will never let you pea brains do this.

  13. havegunwilltravel :
    J. Donut, I have. They think Ron Thomas is an opportunistic fraud who is trying to make a pile of money off his loser son. And they don’t think a lot about the homeless, they just want them to move on. Perhaps you should try some supermarkets in the city……

    Havegunwilltravel: Which one of these FPD Pigs are you?

    1. Not a cop, just a local taxpayer who is going to have to foot the bill. FFFF is just making things worse, as is Ron Thomas, and most of the out of town protesters who close Highland Ave. every Saturday. Go home, we will clean up our own mess at the next election.

      1. Please advise the readers of the FFFF blog with specific evidence or proof of what additional expense that the city is incurring each Saturday?

      2. The next election will be a recall election. Thank you for acknowledging we have a mess that needs to be cleaned up.

      3. “Not a cop, just a local taxpayer who is going to have to foot the bill. FFFF is just making things worse,”
        ^^^^
        does not commute, or you have mental issues. Tell us why you are really jocking the cops responsible for this Murder? are you an FPD concubine?

  14. Don’t get me wrong, we have a fine Sheriff and an excellent Sheriff Department, but if we lose our FPD we will be losing the direct control and administration of the police department by our very own City Council. These are the experts on Fullerton that are in charge.

    1. The piggies might loose their power? Oh noes.
      Fuck you, Sheriff is the way to go. FPD fucked it up for themselves. The whole wasp nest of connected dooshbags will be yanked from the tree sooner or later.

    2. Too funny. “fine Sheriff”. “Excellent Sheriff Department.” City council as “experts on Fullerton.” Experts on feeding taxpayer money to their friends and making asses of themselves nationally, I’ll grant you that.

  15. Maybe we can use the cool police station building for something better but as a former south countyite, I just see this as exchanging a problem we have control over for a cheaper problem we have no control over.

    1. So you think you have “control” over the FPD? To me it looks like the other way around.

      You think the south county cities don’t have control over their “contractor?”

  16. Has the thought occurred to anyone that 95-99% of the internal problems with the Fullerton PD are from officers who do not reside within our city?
    These soldiers of fortune have nothing invested within our community and zero moral obligation to make our city better for their own families to live in.

    1. You say the dept. settled. EXPLAIN PLEASE. Where does the settlement money come from? Does it come from the cops who did this or does it come from the TAXPAYERS.
      The settlement will make this crime go away. NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT BY PARENTS.
      IF A CRIME WAS COMMITED WHY DOES THE MONEY SETTLEMENT ALLOW THIS TO FADE AWAY.

  17. Havegunwilltravel, does that name make you feel powerful? It just makes me think you have a small penis & like to try to intimidate people. Get a grip, homie.

  18. The code of silence will bankrupt the city. A judge will cancel all of the contracts and we can start over.

  19. The cost savings alone is reason to do it. Maybe the city could fix these lousy streets… cracks/rough road everywhere

  20. Had a problem last night with two people sitting in a car in front of my house smoking dope. Called FPD and was told by the dispatcher they were too busy to roll on my call. Just keep an eye on them. My husbands car has been broken into three times in the past five years. So, I was very uncomfortable with a strange car outside of my house. We have been taxpayers in Fullerton for over 30 years and this made me angry to call and have no response. The FPD would rather work downtown and troll like sharks then do regular police work when a taxpayer actually needs them. Guess we need to do our own policing and go back to the old west???

    1. If they were smoking weed, that’s barely a crime. Punishable by a $100 fine (plus court fees). And I doubt the people breaking into your car are the same as the one’s smoking in front of your house.

    2. And actually, it isn’t a crime. Possession of less than an ounce has been decriminalized. It is now a simple infraction. No jail. Just a ticket.

    3. THEY’RE BUSY SHAKING DOWN PEOPLE AND EATING AND DRINKING FOR FREE. THEY JUST WALK INTO CONVENIENCE STORES LOAD UP ON GROCERIES AND WALK OUT. SPEAK UP AND YOUR HISTORY. THAT’S THE WAY IT IS.

    1. Gary Ingemunson is independent counsel for the Los Angeles Police Protective League.

      THEY PAY HIS SALARY, BUT THAT WOULDN’T INFLUENCE HIS OPINION.

    2. Problem is when they go to town on some guy its always “off camera” so dashboard cameras mean NOTHING!

      1. JUAN THEY ARE SO BOLD THEY DO WHAT THEY WISH. IF YOU ARE HISPANIC I’D BE VERY CAUTIOUS IN THAT CORRUPT CITY.

  21. @Assault victim, nobody here likes rats, ask the owner of the slide bar. Snitches get stitches. Who needs the cops, chill and smoke a bowl with your neighbors.

  22. john doe’s aborted cerebellum :
    Hispanics and Blacks don’t vote, just geriatric conservative whites, LOL.
    Please remind me who the President of the United States is?
    If you answer correctly, you can try again.

    Quess who elected Obama…you look it up..and try again.

    1. Nah, you’re right. Geriatric white conservatives elected Obama. I understand Mr. Limbaugh is a huge fan.

      I stand corrected.

      /sarcasm

  23. You don’t want to get rid of your local police department. You will never get it back if you do. Do some simple research on switching. Lowball initial contract and a good sales pitch. In the end you pay more. Less control at the local level. Dealing with a much bigger union and no control over things you want. You can’t just ask to cut pay, pension, benefits anymore. You only control the total cost of the contract and the number of cops. All of your cops did time in the jails and based on some beliefs here this is what leads to more use of force. Keep your local police department if at all possible. Most of your cops will be leaving for other departments so you will have a new department anyways, not sure that is good but it is what you want.

    1. This is the only thing you said that makes sense. Temecula has sold its soul to Stan Sniffs goon squad. They are heavy handed and most do not live in the city. Now Murrieta has its own police dept. I lived next to a Murrieta cop for awhile and we used to shoot the sheet once in a while. Other cops would come by and he would introduce them, I got to recognize some of them around town and they would wave or say hi. Now Temecula is a different story, i have some old classic Harleys and can look like what the cops envision a 1960’s biker would look like, I have been followed all over Temecula, pulled over several times for vehicle violations that do not exist (old bikes are grandfathered in on some safety features) I have been pulled over stone cold sober and asked if I was drinking because I was riding funny (old bikes take some coaxing and work different)…. Murrieta motor bike cops asked me if I could work on a bike if they bought one… BIG DIFFERENCE… I have moved from Murrieta and am back in Stan Sniff land, oh well I have been followed but not pulled over…. yet.

    2. Hey moron – if you work in our local police department, as you pretend to do, damn straight we want to get rid of it.

      Oh, and if you’re one of the ones leaving, don’t let the door hit you on your donut-laden ass on the way to Anaheim.

  24. I say bring in a new chief, new city manager, and give the FPD a fresh start. We will all get a chance at election time to oust the current city council. I know someone who works for the City of Artesia (really small city) and she says that the outsourcing for cops is the city’s largest expense.

    1. I have to agree with this. Plus the most important thing here isn’t money, it’s the quality of policing. Fullerton city council could do a lot to influence that, much less of its contracted out.

  25. Ron Thomas was on KFI – says FBI is making good progress-though he didnt want to get into all the details-he did say that he is happy with the way they are going and possible murder charges for 2-woot woot

    1. That’s great news.

      Let’s get revved for Saturday, keep showing your support for justice in this case!

  26. “It’s better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool than to open it let them know you are a fool.” – The Bible

    You folks sure are letting us know alright. 🙂

        1. I know, I know, next you’re going to tell me to go back to the Rhino and you will put money in my g-string. There, I said it for you.

  27. Sheriff Sandra herself smoked a drunk Mexican on new years eve many years ago. It was a rite of passage for deputies to listen for shots being fired into the air, creep up and……blam..blam…blam..Sandra bagged hers right then and there. She make her bones that night and her rep with the union thugs.

    Maybe the CHP might be a better replacement for FPD?

  28. Sounds like nobody is good enough for this bunch… why don’t we just hand Fullerton over to you… “FFFF now running Fullerton Where all homeless are welcome, and We, the FFFF decide without any investigation who is right and who is wrong”. There, is that Fullertons Future? Good Luck. Enjoy your town.

      1. To I Love Cops 8/24/11
        Just crawl back under that rock, you inbred halfwit. I just hope that the economy catches up with you and you become unemployed and join the ranks of the homeless who you so obviously loathe. And when that happens I hope you meet some heartless, miserable prick cops and find yourself at their mercy.

  29. This is not the solution we must make our employees accountable. How many members of the FPD actually live here? If they do not live in our community then where is the commitment to the citizens? i work in the Inland Empire and see FPD motorcycle officers in uniform riding cop motorcycles on a daily basis that we pay for commuting back and forth on the 60 and the 10 why are we paying for this? If you want to be an FPD officer you need to live here so the citizens that you “protect” know where you live. I have been here since 58 and back in the 60’s and 70’s the vast majority of FPD lived in our city

    1. The economy took care of that. As much as you think they get paid alot, they don’t. So they had to move to IE to afford nice homes.

  30. Wooo hoo! A $10 million savings is more for the council to put in their pockets! More money to buy special favors to push through more liquor licenses in downtown! More bars! More brand new developments of more nearly empty high rise apartment housing with invites for Section 8 homeless tenants to fill the gaps (a la Commonwealth and Lemon)! Brilliant idea!!

    Jayzus krist…..

  31. john doe :

    john doe’s aborted cerebellum :They do not even control their digestion. Try again.

    john doe’s aborted cerebellum :They do not even control their digestion. Try again.

    john doe’s aborted cerebellum :They do not even control their digestion. Try again.

    Maybe not their digestive system, but the pen which is more powerful than you think. Hispanics. blacks don’t vote, guess who is left..you try again.

    Amazing how racist you cops/cop-boot-lickers are.

  32. “Former Fullerton councilmember and current County Supervisor Shawn Nelson would be in a perfect position to help broker this deal”

    Oh, PLEASE!! This opportunistic idiot got us into this mess in the FIRST PLACE!!

    Let’s be clear: Shawn Nelson’s main goal is to be US Senator, California Governor, or even on an eventual Presidential ticket down the road. To that end, he has formulated a plan to get him to at least the Congressional level.

    That plan has been to ride the sex offender hysteria wave from the beginning.

    To wit: He recommended Chief Sellers, because Sellers was instrumental in getting the city attorney, Dick Jones, to legally vet and authorize a 2000 foot sex offender residency restriction rule. That was Nelson’s most visible achievement, and in fact was the impetus for Nelson to become Supervisor.

    Nelson has since been the most active Supervisor, putting Tony Raukaukus in his pocket to establish the park ban for RSO’s, and in ramming through every city to have the bans there as well. His next major focus will be to establish the 2000 foot rule, probably in time for Halloween, to cement his visibility as the most prolific politician in Orange County, so he can start his federal political career.

    So basically, Nelson got Sellers in place specifically to ram his sex offender ordinance in place, notwithstanding that Fullerton PD went downward in a hurry since that appointment. Sellers was responsible for Ramos and Cicinelli, and you know the rest.

    Bottom line: This murder was a result of an appointment to take advantage of sex offender hysteria laws, and Shawn Nelson is the key to all of this. End of line.

    1. You are RIGHT. I just looked at the timeline myself, and even made a few calls to the City Council’s office. It appears there were some shenanigans. Keep researching.

    2. Why do you even bring it UP? Keep your sex offender coddling out of here. You get no sympathy from this quarter, and for you to even insinuate that your perv friends (who else could they be?) caused the murder of a poor homeless man is entirely off base.

      I am utterly shocked at your insensitivity to both the good cops, the victim, and to victims of sex offenders everywhere. You are sad, man…sad.

  33. Maria, I am not coddling sex offender…far FROM it. Sex offenders go to jail just like other offenders, they serve their time, etc. But when hysteria is used in place of valid, fact-based recidivism statistics that show sex offenders are not as recidivist as any other offender (other than murder; and THAT’S because most murderers are in jail for a long time), then you have the basis which ALLOWS the situation that was obviously caused when you have individuals appointed for a political purpose, and not for a professional purpose.

    Indeed, and you can be angry, but I submit that the very hysteria you display in your response to my post is PART of the reason the conditions for this murder of took place. If you have valid statistics that show me wrong, go for it. I’d be more than happy to see them.

    But this is not about sex offenders, nor recidivism rates, This is about a politician USING the hysteria for his own selfish reasons, and those reasons led to conditions in which this murder occurred.

    Keep in mind that there have been no less than a dozen incidents, including several felonies, that have been alleged against Sellers-supervised police officers and other representatives in Fullerton. If his appointment was predominantly done to effectively advance the career of a politician based upon false statistics, they must be brought out in full force.

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