Tonight: Steve Baxter and Fullerton’s PAS Gallery Produce “Art With An Agenda”
I’ll see you there.
By William Zdan:
The term “Pollice Verso” means (roughly) “thumbs down”. It’s in reference to the (albeit incorrect) traditional depiction of a Roman emperor giving the “thumbs down” signal that dictated the fate of a vulnerable/defeated fighter…usually a slave or other “expendable” that was forced into brutal exhibition.
I’ve toyed with the phrase, changing it to “Police Verso”..in obvious reference to the despicable actions that took place in Fullerton last year. In my painting, Dick Jones plays the part of a distant and ineffectual Caesar. He thumbs the fate of the unseen victim in smug disinterest, not even allowing his glaze to meet the atrocity for which he shares ownership. A panel of piggish spectators oversee the event, in uncontrolled animalistic enthusiasm.When watching a television report with Dick Jones last year, I was disheartened by the comments he had made about the murder. “I don’t know why he died” was the comment from Jones that affected me the most. Jones made a point to boast about his war-time efforts and how much worse, non-fatal injuries had been experienced there. Jones, we know and YOU know why he died. And it wasn’t just because of the fierce bludgeoning that he received by your endeared law-enforcement brethren. He died, Jones, because of a culture that still treats other human beings as “expendable”. Because people like Kelly are easily marginalized. Homeless people, especially mentally ill homeless people, clearly don’t count to Jones…and he did not create that sentiment, he just reflects it. Just as the slaves and expendables of the Roman Empire could have their humanity stripped of them by a blood-thirsty crowd, eager to do so…so was Kelly Thomas rendered a worthless item by those people we trust to protect the rest of us who do “count”. As I heard Jones speak, I thought (as I often do), “we have not progressed as a society. We are no different than Rome”.
Despite the (much needed) height of the soapbox upon which I like to stand relative to this topic, I cannot dismiss my own contribution to the negative and destructive culture in which I actively participate. So…the pawn/villian in my painting takes the form of my own image. Shamefully turned away from the viewer, I still raise my tool of destruction above my pig-like visage. I still perform for the pigs and am obedient to the tyrants of norms and expectations. I still pass by countless expendables, which whom I ironically share so much commonality.
I spent much of my young adulthood studying and working with the mentally ill. I worked at occupational, psycho-social rehab facilities for schizophrenic people during college. I even interned at a psychiatric prison for 6 months. During that time, I imagined that my idealism and self-congratulatory understanding of those emotionally suffering individuals would allow me to make a difference. Instead, I’ve become homogenized, like the dizzying amount of conscientiousness introverts that allow people like Jones to have any say in the direction of our society. Despite the fact that Kelly walked the same blocks that I walk every week, I had never even seen him…and wouldn’t have remembered if I had. I stretch my own rubber glove over my hand every day…keeping my fellow man at a distance…careful not to touch the blood that I shared in spilling. Because if I (a so-called idealistic artist with fair exposure to the troubles of the mentally ill) can willfully ignore injustice for the sake of convenience, I am just as filthy a pig as Ramos.
So, I am the ultimate executioner and THAT illness is worse than Kelly’s was. I am the baton-waving brute in my painting. I was never so aware of this until I met Kelly’s mom yesterday. I stood next to her as she looked at the painting that I shat out for this important event. I had jumped onto a cause for someone I never met or cared about. Nowhere in the painting is Kelly’s personal injustice really depicted. Rather, in the form that fell Rome, mine is a self-indulgent view. And here was this man’s mother, looking upon my painting about..well, about something to do with being angry and selfish and pointing fingers, I guess. She said to me, “he was really a good kid”. I bet he was.
My family and I are out of town. I am asking everyone to please post pictures of tonight’s event. You too Tony. Thanks!
I believe that the Art With An Agenda Art Walk will be able to be viewed until the end of July.
I was at a preview the other day which included the Thomas family, and I can tell you that the work that these artists have created is moving and powerful, and should definitely not be missed.
I sincerely wish that each of the officers that participated in the murder of Kelly Thomas, would have been there to witness the reaction of Kelly’s Grandparents when they finally saw the graphic picture of what their Grandson looked like after Jay Ciccinelli “beat his face to hell”.
Really? til the end of the month? Thank you so much for the info. We won’t be home from vacation for another week so I figured I was going to miss everything.
http://www.artwithanagenda.org/
What time and where is the event?
It starts at 6pm. It’s at PAS art studio on Santa Fe. Right around the corner of the Opera House that is on Commonwealth.
Across the street from the empty field and the future home of the Brewery.
Said Fullerton City Manager Joe Felz, “(The city) respects his right to file this lawsuit. … It is not unexpected. We will look into the allegations.”
http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-362248-kelly-officers.html
So let me get this straight. I am a resident of Fullerton, as is my wife. We have attended council meetings and signed petitions to have the entire city council recalled. We are supporters of the cause. And for that, Mr. Thomas is going to sue the city. And he expects us to support him further as he strives to bankrupt Fullerton for his cause? I did not beat his son. Nor did 99.9 percent of the people in Fullerton that night. But because we live here, we pay? Let’s not forget where the money comes from.
Glad to hear your a ” supporter of the cause”. It seems the city does need to be held accountable, as well as the others listed in the lawsuit alongside the city who voted for apathy.
The residents of Fullerton cannot elect idiots to office for decades and then expect to be sheltered from the results. It hurts, but that’s what happens when your government kills people.
I would be perfectly fine with the six cops, Sellers, and McKinley footing the bill.
And that would be worth your saying if it weren’t impossible given the law and therefore pointless. Baxter’s point stands.
Thank you Capt. Obvious.
You’re welcome, Corporal Pointless.
Steve who have you been sending to Sacramento for the past 30 years? Who have you been voting for locally for the last 30 years? Those are the ones that have erected the massive protections and perks for the perpetrators. The achilees heel is financial. If the voters are collectively a bunch of idiots WE ALL pay the price. I would much rather see 20 million go into other things but if that is the cost of airing the dirty laundry and preventing another murder or frame ups and ending the strangle hold then that is a bargain.
I like this idea. Only taxpayers and voters over the age of 48 should pay. Brilliant.
Steve, you really haven’t gotten it until now?
Bankrupting the city is the point.
Why don’t you go start your own blog?
Oh. That’s right. Nobody gives a shit what you have to say.
I’m involved with two of them, “Joe,” Doing fine with them, too.
Why don’t you get used to the idea that greater authority brings with it greater scrutiny?
You’re involved with one.
No, with two. Who would know better, you or me?
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Of my last three posts on the blog other than Orange Juice that I write for, two of my last three posts have an estimated 25,000 and 30,000 views. It’s true that no one hears them, but they do see them. So don’t be so ignorant.
This is what I love about you Greg. Sure, you’re grossly incompetent and a compulsive liar but by golly you make up for it with confidence.
30,000 views and 3 comments? I call bullshit.
Did you read the words “on a blog other than Orange Juice”?
If you want to know, that one had 293 comments; the other one had 383 comments.
I know that you guys use pseudonyms so that other people don’t know that it’s you being stupid, but you should know it about yourself.
“Nobody gives a shit what you have to say”……. Hmmmm
And these who do give a shit are not allow to give it.
However, I am glad that you are not cross posting there anymore, Joe.
I see Greg is here winning over more voters for his state senate race. I am beginning to think Huff would actually get a lower number of votes if he were running unopposed.
The notion of not sucking up to power is apparently foreign to you, Sean.
The notion of not pissing off the voters is apparently foreign to you, Greg.
These aren’t “the voters,” Sean, just a few of them. And if the participants here vote for Bob Huff, in some respects that tickles me, because I’m pretty sure that for a libertarian it will lead to a Lady MacBeth-style breakdown.
“The notion of not sucking up to power is apparently foreign to you”…….. Hmmmmm
I think I will change your nick name from Golem to “Hoover Upright”.
I am also a supporter of “the cause.” However, I consider it to be MY/OUR cause and it should be the cause of all concerned citizens who value freedom from tyranny, and who demand and fight for our inalienable rights of “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness,” which are enshrined in our Constitution.
Because the next time that the duly sworn “peace officers” decide to go on a rampage, it could be you, me, someone you know, or someone that you love who is on the other end of the batons, boots, Tasers, and the suffocating, crushing, murdering brute force of sociopaths under color of authority. We should be equally concerned about ALL people.
“We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.” Benjamin Franklin at the signing of the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776.
If it takes law suits and bankrupting the city in order to obtain our inalienable God given rights, and to obtain Justice for ALL, then so be it.
I stand with the Thomas family and with all of the Kelly Thomas’, past and future, who are abused, tortured/murdered under color of authority.
We all know the murderers won’t get nearly as much time in prison as they deserve, if any. And, they won’t get anywhere near as much time in prison as you, or I, would if we had participated in the murder of Kelly Thomas. The cops aren’t worried about prison time.
The badge wearing sociopaths have no conscience and no integrity. Unfortunately, pay/pensions/benefits/jobs are the only things that seem to matter to the LE brass, to the cops on the streets and to the unions.
They are unrepentant and morally bankrupt. I believe we are going to have to hit ’em where it hurts, and just shut them down, even if it means bankrupting the city. So be it.
If you walk on the right side of the law you don’t have to be afraid or think you are going to have any problems with police. If you are a criminal, a disrespectful fool towards authority, be afraid cause it catches up to you. Lead a good life and don’t take anything that JFA says. He has obviously had trouble with the law. Who would talk like that if shit hasn’t happen to him in the past. You put all the officers out there bunched in one incident. That shows how stupid you are.
Even if good old greedy Ron Thomas bankrupts the city (i doubt it happens), the officers still have their pensions. You cant take that away from them. Different accounts. So go ahead and do whatever YOU think is the right thing to do.
“The officers still have their pensions”! This is a total falsehood. If Fullerton faces bankruptcy, everything becomes negotiable. If they enter bankruptcy the formulas for calculating the pensions can be changed UNLESS you are already retired.
John Doe stop spreading false info. Go see Barry Coffman whose letters to FPD union members pointed out the possibilities in the future that could happen. He ruled out nothing. You provide info but it is false and misleading when the FPD union prexy has the correct info.
First of all Fuco, Fullerton is not gonna go bankrupt, cause Ronnie baby is getting shit. And officers still have their pensions not matter what you want people to believe.
JD – I’ve never had trouble with the law, and have relatives and friends in law enforcement jobs, some command staff (you do know what that means, don’t you? Not that you made it that far) – but I dread every day I drive into and/or through Fullerton for fear of being pulled over just because some FPD “officer” decides I committed an infraction.
So don’t blather on about walking “on the right side of the law”…
Peaches..Command Staff, is that from Mayberry RFD. So don’t drive into Fullerton. I don’t want you to drive into a trap and get hauled into jail.
@John Doe, No, you are wrong. I haven’t personally had “trouble with the law,” not even as much as a speeding ticket.
However, I am very much aware of those who have been unjustly and viciously beaten, abused, falsely accused, falsely imprisoned, raped, molested, tortured and/or murdered by “the law.” Just read the newspapers or look on the internet; the horror stories abound, and we ignore them at our own peril.
If I were to make a list of police brutality/murder victims for you, it would be very, very long, indeed.
I don’t plan to sit around and say nothing/do nothing about these abuses committed under color of authority just because I haven’t yet personally been on the receiving end of such abuse.
“First They Came for the Jews”
By Pastor Niemoller
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
I feel the same way JFA. Let’s not also forget that there were two dozen women that were sexually assaulted by Fullerton police officers under color of authority.
I will not tolerate or sit idly by while the men and women in my community are treated with disregard and contempt by the same people we pay to supposedly protect our community.
Is that all you’ve got. Why don’t you try looking into the police department you live in. I am sure there is alot of skeletons in their closets. All police departments are the same. Now I will go back to my nap.Yawnnnnnnn!!
Thanks for finally admitting the existence of skeletons in your closet. You really should wait until you are fully awake (and sober) before typing. Otherwise, you risk further self-revealing/incriminating statements.
JFA: I said all police departments have skeletons in their closets. Maybe you should sober up and read what I said correctly.
JFA: You stayed up to late last night partying with the bums.
Another baldfaced lie. My city does not have any skeletons in the closet and was looked into by my neighbor who is a city councilman and ex mayor. All cities Do NOT have lurking major crap unless the city manager and council are complicit, like CUDAHY, BELL, FULLERTON!
@John Doe, Oh, I correctly read the words that you wrote. Don’t try to falsely blame me if you don’t know how to use, or write, the English language properly.
John Doe, YOU stated: “…all police departments have skeletons in their closets.”
John Doe, YOU also stated above: “All police departments are the same.”
Your statements are false; however, by YOUR own words, you have admitted that Fullerton PD has skeletons in their closets.
I really think you should begin your English lessons with something very simple. Perhaps you could try learning the proper spelling and usage of the words: “two,” “too,” and “to.”
Hint: You typed: “You stayed up to late last night partying with the bums.” [sic]
You should have typed: “You stayed up too late last night visiting with some really wonderful people who have much more intelligence, class, integrity and respect for the sanctity of all human life than John Doe will ever have.”
P.S. I don’t drink alcoholic beverages.
Then you support the person who is going to take “Your” city money cause he did not want the responsibility of taking care of his son.
The last respond was for Steve.
There is nothing so pathetic as indifference in the face of evil which is really complicity with evil. The sad part is that about 50 percent of our community will have the same indifferent attitudes of our late city council dis-members. The only thing McKinnley could say when he left is that he didn’t do to well serving city council but sure enjoyed being chief of the fullerton police. There are people still walking the streets of our community who where permenantly disfigured under his rule as chief for the same reasons that Kelly was beat down, for not showing them the proper respect they felt they deserved.
William,
Nice, thoughtful, and provocative essay. I don’t like depicting people as animals because it feeds into a narrative of dehumanization, but I understand why you did so.
I’ve got my own event nearby tonight (a showing of a movie on single-payer healthcare), so I won’t be at the art walk tonight, but I find myself wondering how many homeless people have been invited, how many have had their ability to attend facilitated (as ones from Santa Ana, for example, couldn’t easily get there and back — or not back, for that matter), and what they will think of the exhibit if they ever go.
Your essay touches on some of the same underlying concerns; it gives me some hope that some of those involved in the project are thinking about the homeless who are still alive and around today — in Fullerton and around OC — instead of solely the one who was tragically killed.
“I find myself wondering how many homeless people have been invited, how many have had their ability to attend facilitated (as ones from Santa Ana, for example, couldn’t easily get there and back — or not back, for that matter), and what they will think of the exhibit if they ever go.”
Hypocrite. What have you done for the homeless? Anyway, there will be more homeless there than meddling, impotent, self-important out-of-town losers looking for self-promtion. Good luck with that at your movie.
What have I done for the homeless? A decent amount (though nearly not as much as many others involved) in working with Occupy Santa Ana, a group of non-poseurs that focuses on homelessness issues, and more through Occupy Orange County, which housed a lot of homeless for months.
I know how many shelter beds OC currently has available for male adults without children — do you? It’s not one of my major issues, but I’ve participated in legal strategy discussions with people for whom it is and helped to publicize and support “Necessity Village” in Santa Ana. And I know that the problem is not mostly about one martyr.
Why should anyone do anything for the homeless.
They chose who they are and where they sleep. It’s like saying what have you done for the alcoholics and drug addicts lately. Not our problem.
“I don’t like depicting people as animals because it feeds into a narrative of dehumanization, but I understand why you did so”………. Hmmmmmm
Now this moron mongoloid Golem is calling Aesop and his Fables to be “dehumanizing”.
And Ovid, too.
What a golem maroon.
You have me there, Stanley; I should have said the contemporary practice rather than that of antiquity. You know, references to people as pigs, cockroaches, dogs, cows, gnats, sheep, etc. (I make an exception for chipmunks.)
OK, one person is backing Stanley up on this; did anyone else honestly not get the point?
“did anyone else honestly not get the point?”……… Hmmmm
There is no point nor satire in a moronic expression…. or are you trying to put lipstick on the pig?
“You know, references to people as pigs”…….. Hmmmmm
Have you ever heard about “piglet”? “Ms. Piggy”? etc. etc. etc. Golem?
“cockroaches”…… Have you seen animated flick Bugs?
Folks, please pay attention to his facial pictures! He has always open mouth, indicating that he is a mouth breather, and his tongue is always hanging out like a diagnosed idiot.
SAD but hopeful art is the price of todays “Moral Bankruptcy” what could it be tommorow and the days after that?
In Kellys honor I used a trash can lid and glued discarded butts on it, is it too late to put it in the show?
That would be a big seller. I am still hoping they put a picture of his big balls.
Steve, I am not even a Fullerton resident and I am outraged for you guys. My reccomendation would be doing everything in your power to get the rest of the corrupt Fullerton officers removed from duty so you don’t have to keep paying for their misconduct. There is power in numbers. If enough of you voice your complaints the city will be forced to listen. It’s already been proven with the recall of three politicians and firing of three officers.
Beautiful essay William. I know I too do not do enough to help the homeless or mentally ill. But at least I acknowledge their existence, give what I can, and treat them as human beings when I encounter them.
The city’s insurance company foots the bill. Yeah, the insurance will go up, but it won’t come from the city’s budget. $25 million insures other rogue cops in this country won’t do the same thing ever again. I hope McKinley becomes homeless. Now that’s justice!
Actually, I think Fullerton is at least partially self-insured, so they will “eat” a chunk of any judgment against the City.
My daughter and I just got back from the gallery featuring art dedicated to keeping the memory of Kelly Thomas alive. Some of the displays moved me emotionaly, some were gharish in thier representation of the beating/Murder all were thought provoking. The visitors were many and included a 10 to 15 minute wait to enter the gallery, it was nice to see so many people in attendence. My daughter and I got to say hello to Mr. Thomas, I marvel at this man’s strength and composure, as always, his conduct was that of a gentleman. Gotta tell you, it put me in a somber mood to see the various art representations, but my spirits picked up when I got to say hello to Sherrie Currie, WOW, she looks great and very polite as well. The bench she created is just awsome, the detail is amazing. Have not seen anyone as adept with a chainsaw since Wendy “O”, R.I.P. (some of you may get that reference) Much respect to Mr. Thomas and all the artists that contributed thier time and talent.
Funny you should mention Wendy “O”, I was just thinking about her the other day. She suffered the same kind of treatment that Kelly did at the hands of the Milwaukee P. D. Her horrible crime was “simulated masturbation onstage with the handle of a sledgehammer”. For this ghastly transgression they wrestled her to the ground outside the venue and kicked her face in, breaking her nose. When manager Rod Swensen tried to intervene, they beat him unconscious, then hauled them both to jail. Fortunately, unlike Kelly they both survived, and were acquitted of all charges.
Now every time I think of that horrible song “Courageous” that they’re using over at that friendsofjay website, I can’t help but think that this song is so much more appropriate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzZabo18mhA
Not sure if FFFF has done a story on Cicinelli’s shooting before, but thought there were some interesting details/quotes regarding the trial.
According to his mom after the shooting “his job is gone and his dream of being a police officer is gone.” If only that had been the case, an innocent man would be alive today.
“When he didn’t get his way, he became a bully,” said [the judge]. “He carried a gun around all the time.” Well hot damn, if that doesn’t sound like our good friends Porky and Screw Loose.
[The judge] said she sentenced [the defendant] to the maximum terms partly because of the defenselessness of his victims.
“While the officer is on the ground writhing in pain and losing his eye,” said Revel, “he continues to shoot the officer in the back until he runs out of bullets.”
At least he didn’t have half a ton of pig meat pinning him down. How did he not die or become paralyzed after repeated shots to the back? Makes me wonder if facts were distorted here to trump up the charges.
Donna Cicinelli said she felt nothing but sorrow for Jimenez’s wife and children.
Well Mrs. Cicinelli, myself and thousands of others feel nothing but sorrow for your family. Perhaps as a caring mother you tried to get your son the help he needed after the shooting. But somewhere you failed him. He became a mentally unstable psychopath who calculatedly beat a subdued man in the head until he was comatose. But ultimately your son chose his own path, just as Kelly Thomas chose his. We do know the Thomas family attempted to help their son though, I haven’t heard the same from anyone in your clan.
Mrs. Cicinelli also stated “What he (the shooter) has done to his family must be unbearable to them,” she said. “I’d rather have both of my sons shot than [for them] to be shooters.”
Hmm, I wonder how you feel about what Jay has put his family through with his sadistic behavior. It would be nice to see at least one member of the Cicinelli family admit to some guilt and offer the Thomas family an apology instead of your husband and daughter/daughter-in-law making public statements dehumanizing the victim and declaring he got what he deserved.
Finally, it just goes to show that cops can murder people for not kow-towing to them and get off with a slap on the wrist. The guy who shot Cicinelli is serving life in prison, for taking an eye. Cicinelli is facing four years for taking a life. Sure, his brethren participated also, but none with the same cold-blooded precision as him. But it appears your family is religious so in the end I guess Jay will have to answer to his maker for beating a man to death while he begged for his dad.
If only Jay had followed eight simple commands to stay off the force like his superiors in L.A. demanded and his mother claimed would happen, a good man would still be alive today. I hope your son sleeps well at night.
Problems lead to the sadistic ringleader Mc Satan.
Yes. And retired Fullerton police chief(1993-2009)and recalled Fullerton city council member, Pat McKinley, first corrupted our town’s police force with his bedroom city, commando policing philosophy and leadership that promoted disregard for the Constitution. When police chief, Fullerton PD frequently violated the civil rights of the community of Fullerton. When a Fullerton city council person, McKinley approved millions in legal settlements be paid by the good people of fullerton(city revenue,illegal taxes) to those persons whose civil rights were violated by the Fullerton PD.
Do not let McKinley quietly flee the scene of his crime by letting his identity fade into nothing more than an evil characterization who was recalled from public office. He is not McSatan;McKinley is a man who has committed crimes against us.
He promoted and protected a police force that molested female detainees, beat suspects, perjury, false arrest and murder a disabled man.
McKinley and his colleagues committed crimes upon the good people of Fullerton. simply recalling him from public office is not justice for us.
I don’t know which agency or entity may legally prosecute McKinley and his colleagues. the good people of fullerton must demand prosecution and punishment for McKinley’s crimes agains our community.
Just my humble opinion
Thats funny, there’s nothing more funny than a human being shot to death. You are a very funny guy. Let’s get together and pull some wings off of flys. I bet you would love it.
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2012/07/slidebar_hides_behind_veil_of.php
Unbelievable.
I think that this curtain that Karma offers would’ve been more appropriate…
http://www.cafepress.com/+karma_shower_curtain,663039649
Amber Stephens’ weekly article is awesome.
Jeremy- Hate to tell you Bro, but you are not in Oz.
Unfortunately for Kelly Thomas, Cicinelli wasn’t shot to death. So not sure if you are delusional or referring some else Bud.
Re: Black curtain draped over slidebar, was this a concilitory gesture for thier role in the KT murder/coverup or a gesture of scorn and derrission directed at those who came to remember KT? Hope it was the former and not the latter. Were they still doing business as usual? Either way, it is the ultimate irony, as the owners and mngmt. of the slidebar would have had KT removed from view of thier patrons so as to not upset the drunken revelry, alas they have removed themselves from view of those who came to remember KT.
Mitt, you put the quarters in the juke and I’ll rack ’em. Nice selection, bro…
The concert/Food-clothes drive went great! A lot of clothes were collected for distribution to those in need. My daughter and I brought in a case of speghetti and meatballs(flip top cans) and a case of bottled water. Channel 4 news van there, several vender booths( I got a shirt “Justice for KT” and my daughter got a Kelly’s Army tank, we will wear them with pride) Everyone was cool, bands sounded great, many prizes were raffled off, kids played in the fountain to keep cool, while a slam pit started during Adolecents set. This years crowd was much larger than last. Mr thomas addressed the crowd several times to overwhelming support. Lets keep the momentum going, 2 down, 4 to go!
More money for Ron’s pocket’s. He is not feeding the homeless all you suckers are.
What a pathetic, scared, dead inside, little person you are.
Charity is not titt for tatt, charity is not what you can do for me if I do this for you. Charity is from the heart. I pity you, “john doe”
Dont pity me, I am loaded.
Drugs and alcohol don’t solve anything Doe. Get clean. You’ll thank yourself later.
Taken in sufficient quantities they can solve stuff.
Loaded as in money, not drugs or alcohol. Should of clarified that .
I hope you are saving some of your money; you’ll be glad you have it when you are standing in the unemployment line.
It’s such a shame that all of your money just can’t seem to buy you any class.
Can anyone explain how you get life in prison for taking an eye and a maximum of four years for taking a life? No wonder so many people have no respect/trust for most cops, they are not held to the same standards as everyone else when they commit crimes.
It’s called “Qualified Immunity”!!
You might want to get familiar with the term “shock the conscience” JD.
That term will be the undoing of the qualified immunity defense that you’re deluding yourself into believing will support Ramos and Ciccinelli’s “innocence” during their criminal trial in a few weeks.
I’m familiar with the legal term “shock the conscience.” I’d prefer the lay term “going beyond the reasonable use of force.” It will apply to Cicinelli, but not to Ramos, who will retain qualified immunity.
Tend to agree with you Greg.
Me too.
Brandon, you obviously have not checked into the whole case of Cicinelli’s shooting and you definitely were not in the court room or you would have heard the whole story. Mr. Jiminez was also guilty of kidnapping on more than one count. Rape on more than one count. Attempted murder on more than one police officer. If you don’t like the justice system, well that’s just too bad.
And the only one that Ron Thomas has to blame is himself, even though he is trying to blame anybody and everybody. He will do or say anything to assauge his own thoughts.
It is very difficult to have any sympathy for someone who has treated his own (or not) son the way he treated Kelly… and the restraining order against him is still in effect.
Check it out, is is very difficult to get a restraining order, very difficult. So much for wanting to help Kelly. Kelly got more help from people he didn’t even know than he did from his family.
Cicinelli was a dumb rookie who got himself ambushed. He wasn’t a hero, just a victim – just like Kelly Thomas.
100% agree with Reality Is.
You are right Hog, I wasn’t there. But I do know all of his victims are still alive, unlike Cicinelli’s victims.
It’s easy for people like you to blame Ron Thomas instead of the cops who murdered Kelly. It’s also easy to question why noone in Cicinelli’s family cared enough about him to get him the proper psychological care he needed after he shooting. But unlike you and other cop apologists, I understand that adults are responsible for their own actions. Keep blaming the victim’s family though, makes you look like a caring individual.
Brandon: someday these critics of the Thomases will find out for themselves how difficult/impossible it is to keep someone like Kelly in housing and then they’ll remember all the criticism and complaining they did before and be sorry. Keep up your good work putting the blame where it belongs, which is certainly not on the Thomases.
Looked in on my lil’ girl this morning, she slept with her Kelly’s Army tank on. Don’t wan’t her to grow up to hate the cops but to be wary of them. Like any other job, some have noble intentions some are just scared little cowards. I played H.S. football with a guy who went on to be a cop, he was a great guy, I am sure he distinguished himself and is a credit to his profession but I also knew a guy that went on to law enforcement that I myself had to step in and stop from picking on someone clearly weaker than himself. Police prescence at yesterdays concert was minimal, I think Capt. Transparency was there for a while along with 2 others and what I thought was a narc in the crowd, some “homeless guy” with a hand written sign kept walking through the crowd, only the handle of his sign had about a half a role of electric tape wrapped around it. Really?! anyway didn’t see anyone getting harrassed so I guess thats a step in the right direction…
Reality Is, I’m not so sure that Cicinelli was a “dumb” rookie. The man who shot him thought he was being stopped for the kidnapping, rape and other crimes he had committed and did not want to go to prison so he tried to take out both of the officers.
Mr. Jiminez did later turn himself in, I think to a newscaster, Harold Greene, not sure about that, but he was definitely guilty and did deserve the life sentence plus 30 years or something like that. Cicinelli was definitely a rookie but not so sure about the “dumb” part, only two weeks on the streets. So maybe inexperienced. Cicinelli was given all the psyche help available to him and was given a clean bill of mental health, one to two years after the shooting. So his family did help him, unlike the Thomas family.
Matt Cunningham outed sex abuse victims.
Who cares? He will NEVER be a cop again.
Do you think he would ever want to work for Fullerton again? I wouldn’t think so. What right minded LEO would want to put his life on the line for the rabble such as Fullerton has shown to have. Sadly you and others on this blog have given the good citizens of Fullerton a bad rap. The foul language and unfounded accusations against police officers and city officials is unconscionable.
I know… I know… but remember, Nothing has been proven, NOTHING! And until or if that should occur all involved are innocent!
All of them.
One man murdered and everyone involved is innocent?
cicinellie does not deserve to be classified as a “right minded LEO”
He sure doesn’t Nomad. Right-minded individuals don’t take pleasure off of bashing skulls in while someone is face down, hand-cuffed, and begging for mercy. It’s already been reported L.A.P.D. did not clear him to be medically fit, which is why he was illegally hired in Fullerton. I wonder what degree the psychologist who cleared him has? An Associate Police Academy Degree maybe.
“MC SATAN” and maybe his henchmen.
As you pointed out Brandon, RIGHT MINDED individuals DO NOT TAKE PLEASURE in bashing in peoples skulls, cicinellie, “I just smashed his face all to hell” and bragging about it afterwards! What a sick piece of work.
“Smashing his face” was not meant as you have stated, it was said in the hype of what had just happened and what he had to do to get control of Kelly. Kelly was NOT handcuffed, and they couldn’t get him to comply to get the cuffs on him. The bash in the face, if there was one, was a figure of speech and a result of an adrenalin rush. Check out the medical symptoms and you may see of which I speak. Kelly sustained injury to his face when he fell against the curb. The medical report backs up what the officers stated. No officer was guilty of any intentional harm to Kelly. None of them. Kelly had to be controlled because he was trying to break Wolfe’s arm, intentionally! Like it or not! That’s the way it was.
Actually he was trying to break Ramos’ arm. But Hog Wild I would jump in to help you, but I already went rounds and rounds with these idiots and they think they know more than you and I. They are in their own hateful world. No words are gonna change their mind about what really happened. Let’s just take the satisfaction to know that at the end of this mess. All will be acquitted.
Nomad you need to get that shirt off your daughter and right now! How about one that says “Support Your Local Police”?
If all of you who are bashing the police would give your support, you would see a lot of improvements in the FPD. There are many good intentioned officers out there who do a great job. A job that is very difficult. How would you like to go to work every day with a bulls eye on your back? That’s what they do. Everyday! So try it. Back them up. Tell them you are supporting them! Give them a break! They deal with riff raff everyday, of which may be their last because of it.
Just to mention two..
Phil Cuesta and Christy Hamilton Goggle it!
I know all six officers involved and as much as all you out there hate them, they are good officers. Good people. You make them all to be monsters, and they are not. So ease up and support your local police.
No, not as I stated, as HE stated, I am just repeating what he, cici stated. Oh and thier was more than one blow, try 4 or 5, I saw the video so did you, I saw the bloody taser-so did you so go peddle your enableing diatribe someplace else, cause it aint gonna fly here
If that is how you percieve your job to be, you lack the intestinal fortitude to do that job and need to explore other career options. I will always give a good cop a break, but a murderous costumed thug, not ever. I respect Mr. Thomas and wish him continued strength to pursue justice to the end result.
And you saw the “bloody” taser how? Were you there? If you were.. you know that I am speaking truth about the adrenalin rush of the officers and how they reacted to a bad situation. A schizophrenic brain is likened to a person on pcp. There are numerous cases of schizcophrenia v. police, many.
Research shows that the reactions of schizophrenic persons have been the same in all of the cases referenced and they were all likened to Kelly Thomas.
Officers should not be held responsible for the actions of a mentally ill person. Officers are not doctors and do not know the difference between mentally ill and drug induced brains. Neither do doctors for that matter, without testing.
And neither am I. This is gonna be real fun.
No they just do not want to handle urine smelling, pit aroma of bums if they don’t have to. That is when the gloves come in handy.
Don’t act the fool now Hog, you saw the photos of the bloody taser, you hang on every piece of information that comes out about these murderers. My brother is a disabled veteran who was diagnosed as paranoid schizophenic since our parents died, he lives with me, I care for his needs, but he is also a man full grown and likes to come and go as he pleases and I know him to be the most gentle individual anyone could meet. These officers do not know the difference between right and wrong much less with how to deal with a growing segment of the populace. But for the Grace of God go me or mine.
These former officers will be held responsible, that is why they have a trial date or does this not fit in with your dillussions.
No trail date yet………….
@ Hog No matter how many times you restate lies, they do not turn into facts. The video clearly shows Kelly was fully complying, despite Ramos’ attempt to instigate a fight, until the gloves were put on and his life was threatened. At that point he was under no obligation to follow the orders of people who wanted to harm him.Lol @ no officer was guilty of intentional harm to Kelly. Even after Ramos told him he was going to fuck him up, numerous officers kept their full weight on him while his oxygen was being deprived (as he repeatedly let them know) and Cicinelli coldly, and calculatedly dropped a metal taser on Kelly’s face with full force, you continue to try and convince yourself and others that these officers needed to use such excessive force to subdue a 135lb man. BTW, your statement that people who have schizophrenia behave similarly to those on PCP has no research to back it up. What empirical journals suggest, is that PCP produces some symptoms that are similar to those seen in people with schizophrenia. It does not suggest individuals with schizophrenia have super human strength or distorted cognitive patterns like you seem to be suggesting Kelly Thomas had. I know you and many of your brethren like to think Kelly was a dangerous, drug addict, who deserved what he got that night. Unfortunately, all you have is your opinions to back that up.
@ Anom II: We are doing a lot to improve the police department. Thanks to this site, Kelly’s Army, and concerned citizens like myself, three thugs have been fired, three crooks who hired, supported and defended those thugs have been recalled, one police chief who coverer up the thugs quit before he could be fired, and numerous other dirty officers are on their way out. It’s nice to hear about the deeds of good cops, however this is a site dedicated to exposing the actions of cops, and other public officials who commit or cover up crimes.
No one has been fired. And not one is on their way out..just telling the truth, no made up lies. And there is no cover up. So Brandon, get the facts.
It is refreshing to hear that you are caring for your brother, very refreshing. There are many who do not take any responsibility for their ill siblings and or parents/children. Many. I truly commend you for that. If everyone was like you we would not have situations such as shown on the research about mentally ill/cops.
As long as they are medicated, the chances are very good that nothing will go awry. God Bless you, and I do mean that.
@ Nomad: I think Cicinelli was sick, in the truest sense. I feel for the guy in losing an eye while trying to arrest scum. It’s not getting the psychological help he needed and turning into scum himself that I can not support. I am surprised more haven’t pointed out the irony of his defenders attacking the Thomas family for being bad parents, while they did nothing to make sure he was emotionally and psychologically fit. I’m sure they had good intentions, like Ron and Cathy Thomas, but could not force their grown son into accepting help he did not want.
I just hope Cathy Thomas doesn’t booze down the million she got. More like $600,00.
Have any of you read the medical reports issued by the doctors/coroner? The full report? Well if you do so, you just may change your mind about some things in particular. At this time I will not say what that is, you figure it out. It will come out eventually anyway.
If the defense had something of substance they would have released it. They went all atwitter over a few mins of useless unreleased audio of Ramos talking.
Cop killers don’t get the treatment Kelly got. That was brutal and no matter how you spin it, the video looks and sounds bad which also explains why the defense is delaying the video …wait why am I bothering?
You’re just going to abandon this topic and repeat the same garbage the next day.
Who are you guys trying to convince anyway?
Yeah you keep believing that the audio they JUST found is useless. Ron Thomas’ asshole shrank when he heard it. Big game changer.
IV who are you trying to convince?
These guys can’t respond with logic or reason because there really isn’t any logic or reason so they’re stuck in a loop.
By this time tomorrow you’ll see the same guys, making the same argument and either abandoning the topic or trying to go off topic.
They sound like a broken record already. Same time, same place, same station.
Anyway, what is the purpose of a blog if it isn’t a diatribe?
Take notice of how hes completely abandoned his own topic and is trying hard to go off topic.
…Same thing, all day and everyday.
With a little bit of understanding the whole complexion of this situation could be turned around. The ardor of your arguments suggest that you have “skin in the game”, so do I. I think that we can agree that this whole, terrible situation should not have happened, but it has and a reckoning must be had. I understand you have to support yours and you have, vehemently so. I too, must support my adopted friends. The lowliest, gave us, that have been beaten, or abused a voice, Ron Thomas’ determination to see justice done, gives us hope. Pray God gives you strength to see this through. Pray God gives peace to the Thomas family, victims of violent crime.
IV… Not trying to go off topic, I could blog and give you what for all night if I wanted. I am at work right now so…
Your keep believing that….
21,000 signatures and counting! In the time it takes to argue with a sick person about why beating someone to death is never justified you could e-mail this to 5 friends or post it on Facebook. There are still 3 very dangerous officers on the streets of Fullerton.
http://www.change.org/petitions/remove-all-6-fullerton-police-officers-involved-in-the-murder-of-kelly-thomas
And then what?
You get to stroke your ego and say you got thousands of electronic signatures?
I hate to burst your bubble but online “petitions” never go anywhere, they can be signed by anyone multiple times and is largely ignored by those who actually affect change.
In the end the “signers” feel a false sense of accomplishment and the person who started it walks away with a massive ego. This is why we still have actual signature gatherers when it comes to initiatives and the county has to verify a small sample before going forward.
If you really wanted to make a difference, start a massive letter writing campaign to the Orange County DA, the California Attorney General and the FBI.
And I’m not talking about having 20,000 people print out the same standard letter, each person has to be creative. Follow this up with massive protests in front of the FBI and OC DA.
The whole point of change.org is to keep out of their face and in front of your computer screen like a good little minion.
I’m pretty sure the three recalled council-men said the same thing about signatures shortly before they were recalled. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Don’t try to twist my words. Standing in front of a store and doing door to door gathering signatures is not the same as sitting in front of a computer stroking your ego. I made this very clear.
If you want to make a difference, you must have a visual presence. OTOH if you want to sit on your ass and “feel” like you’re making a difference I guess you can tweet about it and “sign” some online petition that no one will pay attention to except the person who started it and the people who “signed” it.
Like I said before the whole point of change.org is to keep out of their face and in front of your computer screen like a good little minion.
Hell, if the citizens of Fullerton went to change.org instead of protesting and gathering actual signatures to recall the 3 blind mice. All of the officers would still be on patrol, curly, larry and moe would still be in office BUT HEY we would have felt a great sense of accomplishment because 20,000 “people” including Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck signed our online petition!
I guess the 25,000 people who signed it will know they accomplished something. It would not make much sense for people who didn’t sign it to pay attention to it since they most likely didn’t know it existed, hence distributing it online. For people like myself who live too far to protest or collect signatures in person, it’s a great way of spreading the word of the injustice. I’ve wasted enough of my night conversing with an angry person who enjoys arguing rather than doing something productive. Have a great night. 🙂 🙂
JD, if anybody has a right to “booze down” it is Cathy Thomas. Look at what she has had to put up with all these years, and I don’t mean her son. Why was Ron Thomas asked to leave the Police Academy? Three guesses! And the first two don’t count.
As predicted this slime bag is attacking the Thomas family. They can’t go a day without doing it and of course when they’re confronted they try to change topic or don’t answer up at all.
I know what happened to Cathy. That is why I dont get everyone praising Ron Thomas. He is an out of control skitzo himself. The more he talks the more everyone sees what a whack job he is. Keep on talking Ron. It opens people’s eyesmore about you.
You called it right lV
Yes I did say all police departments have skeletons in their closets. I am not denying it. So What!
@John Doe wrote,
“Yes I did say all police departments have skeletons in their closets. I am not denying it. So What!
“all police departments,” by definition, includes the Fullerton FPD.
It’s just really nice to see that you’re admitting that the FPD has the “skeletons” of innocent people hidden in their FPD “closets.”
You’re probably going to need to be in the witness protection program before the FPD PIO announces that you “committed suicide” in your garage.
Brandon, great effort, it keeps this story in the public eye. Bet it drives them bat shit to be exposed to so much scrutiny. Keep up the full court press.
Thanks Nomad. This story won’t go away until everyone involved in the murder and attempted cover-up are either in prison or off the force.
@ Anon IV: Much like the Nazi party, the officers involved in the murder and their supporters dehumanize the victim to make him a scapegoat for their brutality and blame the victim and his family so they do not have to admit any culpability in the matter. While it may seem like the murder apologists are just mean spirited and hateful, they actually believe the lies they spread about the victim/victim’s family. Much like a large portion of German citizens during the Third Reich, they have been brainwashed into believing the powers that be can do whatever they want without consequences. That’s why they make no logical arguments and simply attack everyone who does not agree with them. It’s scary to know people like this still exist. But we all know what happened to the Third Reich in the end.
Talk about being a sociopath. You are scary dude.
146 comments and i think three of them have to do with the art show. Classic FFFF. Speaking of a lord of the flies circle jerk, we have one painting front and center, which artistically is among the best in the show, and visually has images of the cops involved in the murder circling Kelly Thomas in a circle jerk. If you read the last 5 pages of the transcript you will be hard pressed to find any offense in it, as that is basically what all their post murder bravado amounts to. A circle jerk. The OC weekly was kind enough to put come pictures on line, including on of yours truly looking particularly charming. Enjoy! I will be gallery sitting this Friday from 6 – 10 PM for anyone who missed it the first time. You are invited too John Doe. You can see first hand what your brothers did, but on canvas. won’t have bands and food trucks like last week, but all the art, even those with red dots will be on the walls until the end of the month. OC weekley has other exmaples
Here is the OC weekly link. I am particularly found of #13. http://www.ocweekly.com/slideshow/kelly-thomas-memorial-art-show-art-with-an-agenda-pas-gallery-37255360/#13
I am particularly found of #13. http://www.ocweekly.com/slideshow/kelly-thomas-memorial-art-show-art-with-an-agenda-pas-gallery-37255360/#13