Just Wrong

Here is a sly observer expressing his view that a Fullerton cop appears to be more like a soldier than a civilian policeman.

Naturally he is rewarded with a combination of arrogance, error, and attitude by “officer” Contino.

While it is true that Prime Minister Robert Peel established the first permanent and professional police forces in Britain, the use of that factoid to explain and defend a paramilitary organization behaving like an occupying army would be faintly ridiculous if the consequences weren’t so, um, deadly.

And speaking of Mr. Peel, while living in Tamworth, the versatile gentleman was credited with the development of the Tamworth Pig by breeding Irish stock with some local Tamworth pigs.

 

Big Brother Downtown Fullerton Small Stuff Adds Up The Crime Beat Union Goons

347 thoughts on “Just Wrong

      1. Enlarged cranium, check, follically challenged, surley attitude, check, check, withered balls…..the lil’ fella is definetly on steroids.

  1. So is this the new FFFF strategy? Sticking cameras in people’s faces and making jerk-off comments to try and get a rise out of someone? It will be hard to feel sorry for you if you mouth off to the wrong person and you get your skull thumped.

    1. If, in the future, Mr. Contino wants to avoid being recorded saying idiotic things, he should quit saying idiotic things.

      My advice for the little dude is to keep his mouth shut altogether.

      1. What was the “idiotic thing”? Is he wrong about the police being a “paramilitary” organization? And even if were wrong, is that statement “idiotic?

        How silly! Why, if it were a paramilitary organization, they’d probably use ranks like Captain, Lieutenant, Sergeant…!

        1. If you remember Dime Bag, the discussion started out with the whole combat gear look.

          Try to remain relevant.

          Oh, right.

        2. Good to see you’ve fallen into line with the militarization of the cops. It’s all part of the homeland security apparatus the 1% uses to maintain its grip. Well done little toad.

          Of course you might see the truth of it but you’ve spent the same amount of time in a real uniform as Contino there. None.

        3. WTF? “Paramilitary” organization? Do you know what a list of current “Paramilitary” organizations looks like? Where they operate? And what they do? Does the phrase “DEATH SQUADS” ring a bell?

    2. Sounds like that would be in violation of my cival rights, to do no more than to ask a public servant a question and get physically assaulted for it.

    3. You mean like Veth Mam did? Oh, that’s right he didn’t say anything.

      Anyhoo looks like we have an addition to the Coffman, Bair, Showen Club.

    1. Exactly…………

      Our predecessors specifically did not want the militarization of our domestic police force and passed the Posse Comitatus Act to assure that result would never happen. While this officer might think it looks cool to wear this stuff, many don’t believe it is necessary.

      If he wants to dress up and play GI Joe, maybe he should take the next step and join the military. Hump through the countryside of Afghanistan where there are real bad guys to contend with. Then the situation actually does require the usage of this type of equipment.

      Fullerton, contrary to popular belief, is not Kabul.

      1. “Tell me how the Posse Comitatus Act applies to paramilitary organizations.”……….. Hmmmmmm

        Esq. See People v. Bautista (2004) 115 Cal.App.4th 229, 233, fn. 2. you morn mongoloid.

      2. Tell me how the military working with local law enforcement in a law enforcement capacity is a sign of a healthy society. Unfortunately as a result of the best efforts of another one of Liz Taylor’s late husbands, it is also just another manuscript under the glass at the Smithsonian. The garb this cat is sporting is called in your face acclimation to the boots. The solution Greg-microwave another hot pocket and change the channel. I believe there are close to 1000 now so no one gets bored. When they start donning the black ski masks and cover up the badges you better stock up on DiJornoes pal. Greg you use your apparent understanding of common law to shill for the painfully obvious. Mr Diamond do you like Kalamata olives? Greece is headed our way. It is time you understood the culture.

        1. I think that there’s a good argument to be made that it is not the sign of a healthy society. That doesn’t change my reaction to the video — which is that it isn’t embarrassing and that it’s not going to do anything to roll back militarization (which is more about weapons than gear.)

          Covering up badges should be cause for dismissal. Yes I like Kalamata olives — who doesn’t?

          1. Weapons and gear? The gear is a psychological weapon itself, meant to reinforce the implied authority and superiority that these officers wish they had over the general population whom they are supposed to be serving.

        1. That’s what the guy says. I don’t usually think of them that way, but there’s certainly an argument for it. People here — as they usually do — scoff at it without trying to understand the argument being made. You’ve come closest to engaging it with those four words. My reaction is: is it true, how would we tell, and does it matter whether it true?

          1. I was being sarcastic. LE think they are waging war against citizens. The Anaheim incident is a good example of paramilitarism. You should know all about that.

              1. And that’s why it’s paramilitary. The modern military would not put up with the shenanigans of the FPD.

                And maybe the six cops who were at the bus terminal on July 5th, 2011 would be court-martialed in a flash.

  2. He never served in the Miltary, yet he thinks he’s in a war. I just can’t believe he would make such statements. VERY VERY SAD…..I think you should send this clip to Danny, not that it would do any good.

  3. Hear me out…

    When there is a recording of Travis driving around the city in a jeep and that said vehicle is in the city hall parking lot around the same time this is posted makes one believe you are using the city hall’sdynamic ip to avoid being located. There is ALWAYS someone watching.

    1. Hear me out….
      This is a new day in Fullerton, YOU keep in mind that there are always cameras recording FPD interaction with the public and we have each others backs FPD, YOU are being watched!

  4. We are not going to be bullied by the ones we pay to Protect and Serve US.
    Goose Step days are over. Time to EVOLVE.

  5. Would it make you feel better if we wore sport coats and didn’t carry all the equipment we do now?

    FYI, the “load bearing vest” he is wearing was an experiment in an effort to cut down on low back injuries/work comp claims brought on by wearing 25 pounds around your waist during every shift, not an attempt to look militaristic.

    Additionally, the public expects us to carry so much equipment these days that there really isn’t enough room for many officers to carry it all on their belt unless they have a large waistline, which is something else you all criticize as well.

    Complaining for the sake of complaining and an unsuccessful attempt to bait the officer is all this is. Save the criticism for things that matter.

    1. I don’t have a problem with the high tech vest. It’s his mouth I have a problem with. Why didn’t he say, what you just explained? Why did he have to be so cocky. Quoting history, when it was quite clear he had know idea, what he was talking about.

      1. I’m a bit late to this game, and I am no police apologist, but his history is accurate. Peel established the first ‘modern’ structured and hierarchical police force. There is a difference between a paramilitary force and most general police forces, but it is really a difference in degree rather than a difference in type.

    2. was an experiment in an effort to cut down on low back injuries/work comp claims brought on by wearing 25 pounds around your waist during every shift

      If you’re wearing so much equipment around your waist that you have to file for workman’s comp you are an idiot. OTOH this explains why LA County Deputies and Anaheim PD prefer gunning people down over chasing them.

    3. CCCB’s,

      You forgot to mention that these same flak jackets were designed and field tested on the public’s dime by FPD’s own ex-Chief of Police, Pat McKinley.

      I believe that the cost to the public was $1,200 as opposed to the $450 we had previously paid for a flak jacket.

    4. “was an experiment in an effort to cut down on low back injuries/work comp claims brought on by wearing 25 pounds around your waist during every shift, not an attempt to look militaristic.”

      Yeah, it was “invented” on our time by Chief McPension who then sold it back to FPD.

      The public “expects” nothing from you except to do your jobs, quit bitch-whining and quit killing or beating up innocent people.

      Try carrying a construction tool belt for a few hours you big pussy.

      1. What brave things do you do that warrant calling others “pussy”?

        There’s some “bitch-whining” going on here, but it’s not from the cops.

        1. We saw the video of the Kelly Thomas killing remember? 6 armed cops killing an unarmed mentally ill emaciated man.

          Pussies is what you were that night and pussies is what you are right now.

    5. The public expects you to carry so much equipment? You can wear a loincloth and a DAR and that would be sufficient. Thanks for your concern about what the public wants.

      1. You seem to want me to subdue suspects with nothing but my hands and my giant cock as long as I record the contact. Hope my loincloth doesn’t get torn so that department would have to buy me a new one….oh, wait, you’d prefer I’d buy my own loincloths because you don’t want to give overpaid police officers a uniform allowance.

        Thanks for letting me know what the public wants.

    1. What mentality? If you knew what I know about this clown you’d know he should thank FFFF for posting this.

      The days of the FPD rogues preying on us IS OVER!

    2. Well yeah, he is. Gotta keep the FFFF juices boiling. But really, this guy is a bit of an idiot. I know the hardass anti-cop people here are all giving each other high-fives; but i’m just shaking my head at how officers continue to demonstrate that they should not be allowed to speak. Period.
      Chief Danny needs to have a little tuttorial on history of enforcement stressing that cops are not military or paramilitary. They are peace officers, servants of the public.

  6. Anyone else notice the voice sounds just like the guy who was pulled over by Barry “Bakers Dozen” Coffman after beeping his horn during the protests in summer of ’11?

  7. Good to see Contino remembered one thing from Police Academy IV.

    Of course Peel wanted to professionalize police to put cop work on the up and up. Killing, thieving, perjuring cops was exactly the problem he was trying to fix.

  8. I am not sure the point of this video. I know we in Fullerton need to watch the cops and it is their job to gain our trust again (which may never happen or take a long time to), but I am not a fan of instigation either.

    1. How or what was he instigating? All I saw was a man asking a government employee about his job. Perfectly acceptable. Commendable, actually.

  9. So why is it when Whitaker had a camera on him his wife assaulted the person video taping? Why is that ok? Typical ffff double standard!! All you fffers don’t like when you are video taped and cry about it!!! Guess what ??? It’s gonna start happening all the time, to show how aggressive you are and keep track of all the illegal behavior of bitchala and his crownies!! Game on!

    1. So why is it when Whitaker had a camera on him his wife assaulted the person video taping?

      Do you have a point or are you just pointing out random things?

      “OOOH! LOOK A SHINY CAR! …YOU SEEE! THIS PROVES MY POINT! YAAAY!”

    2. What’s with the “game on” term? Leads me to believe you were/are an akward kid that the girls didn’t pay attention to and the guys just told to shut up and sit down. Socially akward kid grew up to be an angry adult.

  10. Morons :
    So why is it when Whitaker had a camera on him his wife assaulted the person video taping? Why is that ok? Typical ffff double standard!! All you fffers don’t like when you are video taped and cry about it!!! Guess what ??? It’s gonna start happening all the time, to show how aggressive you are and keep track of all the illegal behavior of bitchala and his crownies!! Game on!

    If Whitaker had the camera, his wife assaulted who? What a moron!

      1. Rd, you proved my point, you are a moron! If you read my post(if you can read) I wrote that a camera was on Whitaker, meaning someone was filming him! Thank you for being a moron! You make this blog much more enjoyable.

  11. 1. Is it the “vest” that makes him look overweight through his torso? If he is overweight through his torso, that in itself can contribute (if not cause) back problems…
    2. Looks like he was interruped when he was “chatting up” (and looking down something?) the young female…

  12. The only way to have law and order is to militarize law enforcement? That’s a new one… or an excuse to abuse power.

  13. Google Below 100. Cops are stepping up each day to be more hard core than the military. Not just FPD. All PD. Countrywide. Goal is less than 100 cops killed or die per year. I don’t like this look on patrol. Not necessary. Keep the tactical vests and AR15s and gas in the trunks and bring it out when needed. Clean and professional should be the daily uniform for patrol. Gang cops should be dressed for war at all times. I don’t think this is Fullerton’s patrol uniform. Could be wrong though.

    1. Gang cops should be dressed for war at all times.

      In other words, they should be dressed for war in those black and mexican neighborhoods but not ours!

      This mindset is why police are so aggressive these days, those of us who live in middle to upper class neighborhoods turned a blind eye (no pun intended Cicinelli) to police abuses happening in the poorer areas for decades.

      Just curious, how many “Gang cops” vs. Regular patrol cops have died in Southern California within the past 5 years?

      1. Look it up. http://Www.odmp.org

        Probably more patrol. Gang cops are in foot pursuits and fights daily. Gang cops work your neighborhood too. You may not see em but gangsters are the ones breaking ino your neighbors houses and robbing them as well. Ghetto cities like Anaheim or Santa Ana have huge gang teams arresting hardcore gangsters all the time. Problem is no one is doing jail time anymore and most aren’t even on supervised parole anymore. Sad state of affairs in California that we will all experience more of in the future as we are robbed more often or come home to our houses ransacked. Stockpile your guns and ammo. We haven’t seen anything yet.

        1. Look it up

          You remind me of this lady, when you can’t back up B.S with facts you say “Look it up”.

          You may not see em but gangsters are the ones breaking ino your neighbors houses and robbing them as well.

          You’re trying to change the subject, what does any of this have to do with your earlier statement that “Gang cops should be dressed for war at all times.”?

          Again, how many “Gang cops” vs. Regular patrol cops have died in Southern California within the past 5 years?

          1. Where did I say anything about more gang cops being killed than patrol cops? I didn’t. He asked. I said I don’t know and to look it up. My guess would be fewer gang cops have died. For the same reason that more gang cops have killed gangsters than patrol cops.

    2. It is not their patrol uniform. It’s only a few. JD is another one that wants to look bad ass so the homeless can be scared of him.

  14. TB, can you please explain the purpose of this “article”? I don’t see a point. What are you trying to show? I think Ofc Contino handled himself fine. It’s clear the videographer was trying to bait him.

    1. Cops don’t have annual physicals and most PDs have no drug testing unless someone thinks they are under the influence on duty.

        1. Good post. I’d be willing to say that we all want peace keepers, except when our home or the homes of our loved ones are being broken into. What’s the happy medium?

          And what were the po-po doing in front of the Slidebar that day?

          1. The happy medium is that they are PEACE officer first, physical enforcers second. The ratio of calls for service and actual crime in progress calls are probably in the ballpark of 8 to 1, maybe even closer to 10 to 1. This idea that we need militarized law enforcement is a ploy, maybe in L.A that mindset is more needed but not in Orange County.

          2. Hmm. When was the last time the cops showed up when anybody’s home was being broken into? My guess is NEVER.

            Instead they show up, take a report, a most of the time you get a postcard from “Chief” about six months later saying they’ve given up due to lack of evidence.

            By the way, not looking for it is a great way not to find evidence. Just ask the DA.

            1. It’s not until the public gets fed up with this militaristic mindset of policing, lawsuits come pouring in, exposure by videotaping, a city council that dis-allows law enforcement to act like uneducated buffoons, along with a D.A who holds police officers liable for their actions, and a mayor/city council who demands it’s police department to act responsibly and respectfully, will we see a shift in police work. If you ask me, a shift is being forced but the police don’t want to evolve. Instead of working with the public, there has been nothing but resistance from the Fullerton P.D. With all the lawsuits, criminal acts by officers, cover-ups, etc, it is very disturbing to see how far the department has gone to continue to resist what is still going on.

            2. Haha Anonymous, quit drinking the Cool-Aid, of course law enforcement pushes the fear on the public. “Do I want somebody coming into my house to kill me?” Or “Do I want a masked man with a chainsaw to break down my door?” As much as fear plays a part in law enforcement I refuse to allow hypotheticals to determine the actions of my local law enforcement. Stop with the fear, the antics, the woe is me, and let’s be real. Be Peace Officers and society will like you again.

  15. “People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both”

    REMEMBER?

    So the issue is “temporary security”, that is all.

    I do not understand a purpose of this article, admin.

    The left liberal socialists are cowards, which is clearly apparent from their anonymous commenting, seeking “temporary security” sooooo?

    1. It was funny. Quick wit response. I could see his smirk. He clearly enjoyed being on video answering some smart azz cop hating troll.

      1. I don’t think it was very funny at all. As far as quick wit is concerned, that is a matter of opinion. He should enjoy being on video totally out of harms way in Fullerton and able to have a smart ass remark knowing full well he can get away with it.

        Put him on patrol or manning a checkpoint in country where he actually is putting his life on the line on a daily basis and where the person you smirk at might have an undesirable answer for you and I guarantee he won’t be so smug. It is easy to put on the military gear and pretend you are an Army or Marine grunt facing danger. It is a far bit different to actually put your life on the line in hostile environment, such as Afghanistan, as opposed to grandstanding on the streets of Fullerton.

          1. On the same level as one siting in a theater facing enemy combatants ? Not hardly.

            Then to further the danger scenario, you are implying that the streets of Fullerton are just as dangerous as the streets of Kabul or Tikrit? I have lived in Fullerton my whole life and never seen an IED, RPG or AK47 brandished and used with impunity on the streets.
            You can post all the stories you want but the policeman in Fullerton isn’t even in the same ballpark as the soldier in country. No need for the garb that the officer had on standing in downtown Fullerton.

            Sorry if that offends your better sense of judgement.

            1. Your argument was that only the military puts their lives on the line on a daily basis.

              So do police.

              I never said the level of danger is the same in Fullerton as it is in Afghanistan. Yet lives are put on the line in both places.

              It can happen anywhere, anytime.

              Sorry if that offends your better sense of judgement.

              1. I guess we can agree to disagree……

                My point was simply that this officer in the video is in no daily danger to justify the gear/equipment he is wearing, in the City of Fullerton. That’s it.

                When we located and took out Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan, we sent in Seal Team 6 who needed sophisticated gear and weaponry. Should we have sent in the Fullerton Gang Unit to get him instead? They face the same danger as our military do on a daily basis according to you. I can see they like to dress up and play military.

                Sorry if that offends your better sense of judgement.

                1. Name one thing he’s wearing, other than a nylon LBV, that any other patrol officer in a traditional uniform doesn’t wear.

                2. By the way….I hope you noticed the black band on the badge, signifying the recent death of a California Peace Officer working in this very safe state. No date is given for the video. Could have been any one of the following California officers killed in the last year:

                  http://www.odmp.org/officer/21381-officer-kenyon-youngstrom

                  http://www.odmp.org/officer/20924-police-officer-jeremy-nicholas-henwood

                  http://www.odmp.org/officer/21032-police-officer-james-lowell-capoot

                  http://www.odmp.org/officer/21225-deputy-sheriff-robert-paris

                3. One last point….

                  Three of the above four officers killed by gunfire were veterans. Officer Henwood had served three combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, having last returned only 6 months before his murder.

              2. Industries with the 10 highest fatal work injury rates (per 100,000 full-time workers):

                1. Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting
                Fatal work injury rate: 24.4
                Number of fatal work injuries: 557

                2. Mining
                Fatal work injury rate: 15.8
                Number of fatal work injuries: 154

                3. Transportation and warehousing
                Fatal work injury rate: 15.0
                Number of fatal work injuries: 733

                4. Construction
                Fatal work injury rate: 8.9
                Number of fatal work injuries: 721

                5. Wholesale trade
                Fatal work injury rate: 4.9
                Number of fatal work injuries: 189

                6. Utilities
                Fatal work injury rate: 4.2
                Number of fatal work injuries: 39

                7. Professional and business services
                Fatal work injury rate: 2.9
                Number of fatal work injuries: 424

                8. Other services (e.g., equipment and machinery repairing, promoting or administering religious activities, grant-making)
                Fatal work injury rate: 2.9
                Number of fatal work injuries: 177

                9. Government
                Fatal work injury rate: 2.2
                Number of fatal work injuries: 495

                10. Manufacturing
                Fatal work injury rate: 2.2
                Number of fatal work injuries: 322

                WHERE ARE COPS?

                1. maybe folded in to “Government”? When I worked for a local city, we had a maintenance worker drop dead while working; no special benefits for his family! Of course, there are no “maintenance worker” lobbies or followers.

                2. Apples and oranges.

                  How about you reference a study regarding which profession has the highest death rate from intentional acts rather than unintentional accidents?

                  Last time I checked trees didn’t intentionally kill loggers, saws didn’t intentionally eat fingers, etc. No other profession that I know of (besides military) where the workers need to worry about people intentionally trying to kill them.

                3. Apples and oranges.

                  Dollars to donuts
                  A dime a dozen.
                  A friend in need is a friend indeed.
                  Beggars can’t be choosers.
                  Curiosity killed the cat.
                  Flat as a pancake.
                  Go for the gusto.

                4. Peaches:

                  That maintenance worker, if the death was work related, was covered by California work comp benefits for all dependents, including ongoing weekly benefits for children until they reach age 18. Same benefits as for law enforcement officers. No difference whatsoever.

                5. I ain’t got no original thought ’cause I ain’t so smart so I gotta use cliches to form sentences and stuff, you know?

    2. Yes. Take your garden variety cop with a high school education. Moralist, lawyer, jurist, historian, sociologist, psychologist, economist…

  16. And they wonder why NONE of the candidates they supported got elected! How hard is it to remain professional and simply reply “the vest is designed to relieve stress on my back.” Ugh, disgrace to all of OC… Can we annex Fullerton to LA county?

    1. The officer could have just told Jimbo to move his smelly hippy butt along and if he mouthed off, the officer could have thrown him to the ground and charged him with 148 and 69 PC.

      Probably hit him with an 11350 too.

      Jimbo knows other officers wouldn’t have taken his sass. Contino is a lightweight when it comes to handling these rejects but a damn fine officer none the less.

    2. That is kinda what I was refering to, in an earlier post, tongue in cheek, about “girls not giving him any attention and guys telling him to sit down and shut up” gave him a complex. A confident speaker would have politely explained “that it was to relieve lower back stress” and left it at that. But officer Noheight had to “enlighten” everyone with the searing logic of his fiery intellect, thus exposing that he is as challenged by thought as he is by vertical growth. You see what happens when you give attitude? You get attitude.

      1. Agree completely. He got attitude so he gave attitude. To each his own. If you give attitude and don’t expect attitude back you aren’t living in this century.

  17. I’ll bet “officer Noheight” ….wait for it, wait for it, …would not have been as short with the female, had she asked him about the purpose of the vest he was wearing.

  18. Nov 12 – 12:16 AM
    Reply
    The, “sly observer” in this case is none other than a Fullerton local known as “Jimmy.” Jimmy is the true definition of a village idiot. He, like the majority of the anti-police rabble in this blog has no true reason to live. Jimmy’s neighbors hate him due to the fact he is a constant drunk and borderline insane. The police have been called to his apartment numerous times only to find him face down in the courtyard in a puddle of his own vomit – usually 10-15 feet away from his apartment where Slayer can be heard blaring from the open front door. When confronted, Jimmy claims his neighbors who call on him are Al-Queda terrorists.

    This sure is an army of quality intellectual freedom fighters you tea party lunatics have mustered.

    PS Peeping Thompson.

    1. “He, like the majority of the anti-police rabble in this blog has no true reason to live.”

      And that’s the criminal mentality that got Kelly Thomas murdered.

      1. Kelly wasn’t murdered, he died when his daddy realized he was worth more dead than alive and he pulled the plug in him. It’s jerk-offs like you that overstep their bounds by instigating and acting like a smart ass and wind up with a dent in your forehead. It seems to me like the 4F Mafia is getting a little too big for its britches and phony tough-guys like you are going to learn that factoid the hard way.

      1. The only criminal mentality which resulted in the demise of Kelly Thomas was his own. Case law states reports of crimes or suspicious activity from a caller who is willing to identify him/herself are considered inherently reliable. Officers who responded had every right to detain him and give him basic police commands such as, “Cross your legs, lock your knees out, keep yours hands where I can see them.” Furthermore, it is the responsibility of the detained person to obey these commands, whether or not the detained person feels they are justified. We could all gather from the video that Kelly was coherent enough to decipher between right and wrong, as is evident by his disrespectful attitude towards a person of authority. There is a difference between a full blown non functional schizophrenic and a dickhead.

        The truth remains, regardless of what you all think you know: if you resist the police you run the risk of being injured or killed. Police Officers don’t get paid to put up with people’s shit and get assaulted. The same goes to the men and women of our armed forces, sometimes casualties occur. Look at the case of a Navy SEAL accidentally killing British hostage Linda Norgrove. One of the best trained warriors in the world unintentionally killed someone, how can you be so quick tool judge a municipal Police Officer? Everyone, including the DA and non-crazy cop haters agree they did not intend to kill Kelly. Again, I am not addressing the nut job crazies who live in the City Lights apartments, I’m talking to the logical thinkers out there.

        One person has been killed this way by the Fullerton Police since its founding in 1904. One in over a century. You people have sensationalized a tragedy and should be ashamed of yourselves.

        1. “One person has been killed this way by the Fullerton Police since its founding in 1904.”

          One that we know about.

          However your dates are bad. Instead, let’s look at FPD in the past ten years, after McCreepy brought in a bunch of uneducated mentally and physically handicapped thugs and turned them loose in DTF.

          Suddenly the numbers don’t look so good, do they.

        2. Dear Stupido..
          I don’t know why, but when a hostile cop puts on gloves and annouces he’s going to ‘fuck you up’, the cop has crossed the line of what he is permitted to do to ‘convince’ a difficult suspect to comply with these lawful orders. I sure hope your a cop-wantabe and not a real one. That would be truly scary.

    2. Here’s the kind of quality intellectual freedom fighter that we FFFF’ers find ourselves up against…

      Shawn Quirk:

      Why has FFF always been silent about a group of public employees who thrive off of taxpayer dollars–our military.

      An average Army MP (with salary, housing allowance, and free medical insurance) makes more per year than a Fullerton police officer.

      Military brass can retire at age 40 with a full pension and then draw huge salaries by working for private defense companies who have lucrative contracts with the Pentagon.

      Also, shouldn’t American oil corporations in the Middle East just hire their own mercenary army to serve as their security force?

      Isn’t our military there nothing more than tax-payer funded muscle for a private enterprise that already gets government subsidies?

      1. Clearly, Shawn Quirk is a rectal felch. Has he ever served in the military? I think the “average Army MP” would sorely disagree with his statement about pay.

        1. I personally don’t know of any veteran that would ever speak about serving our country as Shawn Quirk did.

          Sacrilige is what that is to any of those who have served our country.

          Myself included.

                1. I don’t feel sorry for cops working on holidays. They knew what they were signing up for! There are other people that have to work weekends and holidays. Find a new argument!

            1. Ooooo, Mr. Furhman. You served in the military? Did you get government pay and housing? Free healthcare for you and your family? Eligible for vets benefits? GI Bill college money? Pension?

              As a public employee in the military, you had one of the strongest Unions of all time getting my tax dollars for you. It’s called the Pentagon.

              Incidentally, you can go to the Vets Hospital in Long Beach to get your PTSD looked at. My tax dollars pays for that too.

              1. “As a public employee in the military, you had one of the strongest Unions of all time getting my tax dollars for you. It’s called the Pentagon.”

                Pure, unadulterated bullshit. You should be ashamed of yourself. BTW, I thought you were dead or something.

                1. Why is it “pure unadulterated bullshit”? Support your assertion.

                  It’s a network of government employees that has thousands of lobbyists, both public and private, wheeling and dealing on its behalf to get more and more of my tax dollars?

                1. Furman, You’re excellent at name-calling and hurling obscene language. Now can you answer one, just one, of the questions I asked you?

          1. Mr. Quirk, the link you provided is a blog / advertisement which is designed to attract people to join the Army.

            Lets say an “average MP” is an E5 with roughly 3 years of service. He or she makes approximately 53,304.59 a year. I do not know if this is more or less than a Fullerton police officer off-hand, however, I am pretty sure that is is much less. Here is a link to a pay chart that is available to the public of off the Army Times website. Please use it to back up your assertions before you devalue the dedication and hard work of our Army servicemen with your lies. And, technically, healthcare for a service member is NOT FREE; It is earned through hard work.

            http://www.armytimes.com/projects/money/pay_charts/2012/regular_military_compensation/0_20/

        2. You respect and love the MPs (gov employees w/ salary, housing, medical, college, pensions paid by taxpayers)?

          But you loathe and hate the Fullerton PD (gov employees w/ salary and pensions paid by taxpayers)?

                1. So anybody who disagrees with your boohoo agenda is a klansman? really? Is that the worldview you want to stick to?

        3. TAKEN FROM US ARMY WEBSITE. THEY ENTICE YOUNG MEN TO JOIN BY POINTING OUT MILITARY MPs DO BETTER THAN CIVILIAN POLICE:

          “Are you stuck in a job going nowhere? If you want to make a significant change in your life, think about joining the Army! If this sounds interesting, you will first have to meet these basic eligibility requirements:

          Be a U.S. citizen.
          Be between the ages of 17 and 34.
          Not have more than two dependents.
          Pass the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery test with a minimum AFQT score of 31.

          If you can meet the above qualifications, you have a good start at being able to join.

          There are many benefits to joining the Army. Some are tangible, others are not. One tangible benefit that is frequently asked about is pay. To better explain pay, let me show you a civilian and enlisted Army job comparison for law enforcement job.

          Note that the Military Police (MP) Sergeant’s pay is based on an E-5 with 4 years of service and a family of four.
          Pay benefits for a Civilian Patrol Officer

          Salary: $49,953
          Housing: $0
          Food allowance: $0
          Special pay: $0
          Tax advantage: $0
          Health care: $13,368

          Net income $36,585

          Pay benefits for a Military Police Sergeant

          Salary $29,380
          Housing $16,164
          Food allowance $3,900
          Special pay $1,800
          Tax advantage: $2,716
          Health care: $0 (Family coverage at no cost)

          Net income $53,960

          While the base salary of the MP in our comparison is significantly less than that of a civilian policeman, it is easy to see how all the other extra pay benefits — most of which are tax-free — add up. In the end, the MP is making $17,375 per year more in net income. That means more discretionary income for the family to have a higher quality of life.

          Granted, you won’t make that amount right out of Basic Training and Advanced Individual Training, but if you are a sharp, smart soldier, it doesn’t take long to advance through the ranks. If you already have a law enforcement college degree, you could enlist as a Specialist.

          If you are thinking about joining the Army, and in particular for law enforcement, talk to a recruiter soon. The Air Force and Navy are starting to downsize, so airmen and sailor Base Police could be transferring to the Army to join as MPs under the Operation Blue to Green. This means the number of open MP positions could decline. Act now – join today and secure your future!”

          1. More nonsense. Kelly Mejia, 25 year old computer thief, was making $86,000 a year not counting health benefits and massive pension contributions by the good folks of Fullerton.

            Who says the MPs salary is tax free?

            Jesus, dude you really are ignorant. That might exp[lain the attraction to Sharon.

          2. After reading the contents of your posts Shawn, I find it incredulous that your actually a college professor at Fullerton College.

            Cronyism anyone?

            1. You’ve done everything but offer answers to any of my questions or furnish succinct rebuttals to any of my post opinions, Fullerton Lover.

              Your responses consist of evasion, name-calling, ad hominem attacks, dog piling, and obscenities, all trademarks of your fellow FFFF posters low level debate skills.

                1. Responses to the content of my posts you were reading that prompted you to write post #147. (Take your pick. Any opinion or idea I developed. WHY do you disagree? Provide logic or evidence, please.)

              1. Just because I like baseball doesn’t mean I like the Angles.

                Just because I have a pension doesn’t mean I support unsustainable pensions.

                Mr. Quirk, pension reform is needed sooner than later. The current pension formula for public safety employees are breaking the bank…the current pension formula for all public employee’s needs to be reformed.

                I believe Shawn Nelson, Bruce Whitaker, Chris Thompson & Norby, Travis Kiger, Greg Sebourn, have all clearly advocated for pension reform.

                1. All public employees including MILITARY?

                  And are reformers Nelson, Whitaker, and Norby going to change the formula of their own government pensions to save the taxpayer’s dollar?

              2. Dear Mr Quirk – Perhap we could re-focus on the issue: a seemingly out-of-control police dept. With FPD’s track record of abuses that are paraded on this blog over and over again (for good reason); try to address the issue: management that looks the other way, a union that controls managment, rogue officers/police staff that are criminals. Give it a try!

                1. #183, Shimon Mendel, perhaps we could also re-focus on the issue of drunken violence in downtown Fullerton to which police too often must respond. The Fullerton PD didn’t approve permits for all the bars downtown. That was done years ago by the conservative fathers of our city council who promised revenue, revenue, revenue! if it renewed DTF with these businesses.

                  What happened, of course, is that after 10 pm our city streets began to turn into The Walking Dead. Throngs of marading drunks stumbling about, bouncing off trees and buildings, puking their guts out in doorways, falling flat-faced to the pavement.

                  Police Department appeals that tavern owners cut off their intoxicated patrons at the bar fell on deaf ears. To the contrary, they complained that police were making unreasonable requests. As a result, more fulltime police had to be hired to serve as bouncers and crowd contol. The taxpayer picks up the tab for their salaries now, the city doesn’t net any gain in revenue, but the nighttime business owners are making a bunch of cash.

                  Blame POOR MANAGEMENT (conservative city council) and POOR WONERSHIP (saloon keepers) for the mobs.

                  The results: one man beaten to death in SoCo, another almost beaten to death in SoCo, one man run over in Amerige Parking lot (leg amputated), cab driver murdered at Amerige taxi stand, and an assortment of stabbings and beatings.

          3. Quirk Donkey: THe average Fullerton PD salary with no overtime (yes they get lots of overtime) is about double the salary shown for a civilian patrol officer. And DUMMY you compare that to a Sergeant in the US ARMY. Well get this, the sergeants in FULLERTON PD receive $130 – 135,000 per year salary plus overtime and are on the 3@50 pension deal which beats out the army also. That is a bogus comparison to the average pay for police officers all over the USA. The housing allowance depends on location. My son is an E-9 in Japan and he receives a lot more than when he was in San Diego because the cost of housing in Japan is enormous! Get this: comparing the two where you can get killed on active duty in Afghanistan or Iraq or elsewhere vs. Fullerton where the FPD death is of civilians, not police is a pathetic comparison.

            1. Go to the Army website. They, not I, are the ones using the comparison to recruit young men and women. Link on #150 or #151.

              Get this: an MP in Japan has less of a chance of being killed on active duty than any Fullerton PD officer. (Check out Japan’s murder rate. It’s one of the lowest in the world.)

              1. In other words your government lied to you? Of course perhaps you are either too dumb or too self-interested to interpret the data.

                In any case please address yourself to the FPD payscale, if it’s not too much trouble.

                1. In any case, go to the Army’s website and tell them they’re misrepresenting their MP pay.

                  Address them to the FPD payscale, if it’s not too much trouble.

              2. my son is not an MP in Japan, and I cannot tell you what he does but he lives in Kamakura – go see the James Bond movie you Only LIve Twice and 15 minutes of it was filmed there. Obama visited it last year and I was there two weeks after Obama and had to listen to the merchants complain they had to close all Saturday Afternoon because of Obama!!

            1. Sorry, the comment was intended for Mark Fuhrman, and comment about my fabrication of MP salaries and benefits. The link on #138.

              1. Dear Concerned Texan,

                Thank-you for your timely response.

                p.s. I truly believe that the Lord preserves those who put their trust in him.

  19. I and others suspect the FPD McKinley vests are a financial scam, on a then terribly uninformed city.

    I remember an ER worker saying they dont like policemen wearing so much on their waists because it can turn a small patrol car accident into a very serious life altering injury. Their cars are much more a danger to them then anything other then them pointing their own guns at themselves. Also makes it very awkward to enter and exit a vehicle, doors on Ford Crown Victorias are known to not open, or not open easily in an accident. (Mascara brushes in eye sockets are bad also, stop any distractions)

  20. Pat McKinley brought the SWAT/militarized attitude from LAPD. Now that he’s gone and we’re trying to recover, I think it’s time to ditch that mindset and return to something more community oriented.

    1. Chaffee’s always blubbering on about a community oriented police department. Maybe that would be good task to keep ‘ol Doug occupied – he can start sewing new uniforms.

            1. I like Bill Hunt and even voted for him for Sheriff. To force him on Fullerton though is not the best thing. That’s just me.

  21. Doofus :
    Chaffee’s always blubbering on about a community oriented police department. Maybe that would be good task to keep ‘ol Doug occupied – he can start sewing new uniforms.

    WEAK SAUCE for a post Rodney King incident.

  22. Nice gear, where’s the war brah? those tits your looking at loaded?

    and I’m giving the below quote clip of the day! love it.

    quote “Try carrying a construction tool belt for a few hours you big pussy.”

  23. That soldier costume speaks volumes about the FPD’s whole philosophy of policing and their attitudes towards the citizenry.

  24. Officer Contino is a good guy. I see him on patrol all the time, and yes, it’s in a tactical vest. I don’t think he’s real comfortable talking to the public. I’ve had social conversations with him on duty, it takes him a couple of seconds to put the defenses down.

    I don’t think the video clip posted does anything to reform the FPD and it’s antagonistic to boot.

    PD reform is urgent and important, but it’s going to happen through the political process.

    1. Why did he follow a councilman home one night?

      Everyone’s got their okay cop – the one that smiled at him once. Where was Contino when his colleagues were beating, killing thieving?

      I don’t know either.

  25. Lets’s make a deal. Since most of you hate the Police, don’t bother calling when you need help. Handle your own shit and the Police will leave you alone.

    “Waging a war against civilians.” Jane H, I feel sorry for you if you really feel that way.

    People like you that think that way are the reason why things will never get better. Have any of you ever talked to a cop on duty? Next time you see one try talking to them without being antagonistic. You might be surprised.

          1. Durrr! I’m just going to repeat what the “to” guys said ’cause bullet brain eye lost MARINE!!!!! IM A HERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. “Have any of you ever talked to a cop on duty?”

      Yes many, and some are even nice.

      “Jane H, I feel sorry for you if you really feel that way.”

      That’s cool.

      “People like you that think that way are the reason why things will never get better.”

      No entiendo.

    2. I’ve been sharing this site with my ex, retired USMC (VN) and LEO (drug detail, crimes against children among his assignments – sergeant with street cop cred) and he finds FPD’s actions (KT, Veth Mam, other documented behavior) abhorrent; they do not reflect LEOs with principles and scruples. FPD’s actions are those of playground bullies carried to an extreme level.

  26. In boot camp when we did grenade training they would have the smallest guy in the platoon come up. They would toss a practice grenade on the ground an the DI’s would throw the little guy on top of the grenade. They told us this is what little guys were let in the Marines for. It was comic relief but looking at little man who could not even complete basic makes me think my DI’s were right. He is a wanna be…. like most cops. The bad guys are trying to blow up our country, not have to many beers at slimebar.

    1. Gee, I was luckier than you. In boot camp the guy in front of me fumbled the gernade and the training sergeant fell on it and was killed. Lucky for me that was as close to action in the Vietnam War that I had. I did security clearances and then training NCO! But I never forgot that gernade, it could have been me.

  27. Peaches :
    I’ve been sharing this site with my ex, retired USMC (VN) and LEO (drug detail, crimes against children among his assignments – sergeant with street cop cred) and he finds FPD’s actions (KT, Veth Mam, other documented behavior) abhorrent; they do not reflect LEOs with principles and scruples. FPD’s actions are those of playground bullies carried to an extreme level.

    another divorced cop family

  28. Anonymous :
    I don’t feel sorry for cops working on holidays. They knew what they were signing up for! There are other people that have to work weekends and holidays. Find a new argument!

    I don’t think he was arguing, just making a point.

  29. Shawn Quirk :
    Furman, You’re excellent at name-calling and hurling obscene language. Now can you answer one, just one, of the questions I asked you?

    Quirk, you’re a cop that doesn’t like to be told how much he should earn, how much he should pay for insurance and how much he should make when he retires. Completely understand. However, you make yourself look like an idiot in the process when you compare it to the military.

    Instead of answering your questions, I’d rather piss you off. So, I can only vouch for what I did and what I received for what I did. Here’s the resume:

    Retired January 6, 2009, at 45 as a CW5 (Chief Warrant Officer Five). My monthly base pay was 7,300/Month after 22 years of service.

    I have 15700 hours flying the UH-60 Blackhawk, AH-6/MH-6 Little Bird, OH-58 Kiowa as well as the MH-47E Chinook. 6000 of those hours were combat and 8500 were flown wearing night vision equipment.

    2002-2008 Four combat tours, Afghanistan

    1995-2001 Interdiction missions for civilian LE (DEA, FBI, etc.) overseas.

    1993 Operation Gothic Serpent, Somalia

    1989 Invasion of Panama, Hunt for Noriega.

    1987 Re-flagging of oil tankers in the Persian Gulf during the Iran/Iraq war.

    Those don’t include the hundreds of time we “spun-up” and then “stood-down” because another solution to the problem was found in time.

    Now Quirk, I’m not going to go “dollar for dollar” with you because you could give two fucks about the military as you’re just trying to spin the Libertarian/Conservative argument against inflated LE salaries and pensions and apply it to the military.

    Quirk, you’ll like my retirement gig. Not only do I get the pension that I earned, I work six months a year for 225,000 tax free training allied helicopter pilots in US Air Assault tactics in North Africa and the Middle East.

    Quirk, felchers like you know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. So instead of a dollar comparison, let’s do a value comparison. Military, unlike cops, don’t serve where they live. Out of 22 years in, I was deployed 18 of them. Don’t compare what we did to Law Enforcement, there’s no comparison.

    In closing, something you will never understand, Quirk. If you ever had a friend, relative or a co-worker that served in the 101st Airborne, 75th Rangers or the 5th and 7th SF Groups you can guaranfuckingty they were in good hands. Nobody gets left behind, dead or alive-that is the thing you will never get Sean unless you’ve been there.

    1. Hey Mark Furman, Nice to see a fellow Army Aviator on here. CW4 with 30 years. Selected for 5 but couldn’t get a slot and finally gave up and retired. I only WISH my retirement was as much as a LEO. That would be SWEET! I guess getting your ass shot at on a regular basis while away from home a year at a time isn’t worth much.

      1. Likewise! My last year was spent as a Blackhawk SIP at Ft. Campbell with the 101st CAB. I wouldn’t trade it for anything, I think I retired too soon. I’m happy that I’m still flying, though. I’m still current in the UH-60 and I get to meet quality pilots from all over the place. There’s nothing like NOE at 130 knots!

    2. You make yourself look like an idiot when you compare your career to that of all lifers in the military.

      I know any number of them who spent most of their time stationed in the USA. Occasionally, their “deployment” duties took them to Japan, Germany, Belgium, or the North Pole. They never got close enough to any combat to even hear a gunshot.

      One guy, in particular, did most of his time between Washington and Virginia. He’s retired now, drawing full pension and bennies, and works as a sales consultant for arms companies doing business with the Pentagon–$150,000 yr. on top of his pension.

      He owns a 4 bedroom home in Alexandria and 40 acres in the mountains with a nice cabin and a huge barn for all of his toys (ATVs, dirt bikes, jeep, etc).

      He is 48 years old.

      I don’t know a single Fullerton public employee from police, fire, teaching, or the city who has this kind of McRetirement package.

        1. Shawn Quirk what do you think about the murder of Kelly Thomas by the Fullerton Police Department, the Veth Mam frame up job and the bizarre in custody death at the jail?

          1. 2008? Nice trip down Memory Lane, Fullerton Lover #265!

            Now let’s look at the 2004 City Council race. Quirk-Silva did NOT get a campaign penny or an endorsement from the Fullerton Police Department Association. That honor went to current OC Supervisor Mr. Shawn Nelson!

            He actively sought out and received the Police union’s endorsement and gladly took their donation$.

            At an Elks Club candidates’ forum back then, Nelson boasted that everyone wanted the police union endorsement and that he was the only City Council candidate to get it.

            Doug Chaffee, who was making his first bid for Council at the time, responded that he (Chaffee) did NOT want the police union endorsement and was NOT seeking it.

            Nelson’s cozy relationship with the cops had been worked out by his campaign manager Sean Francis, the Slide Bar and Continental owner who sat on the Fullerton Planning Commission.

            Sean Francis’ best buddy just happened to be John Cross who was the police union president at the time.

            See the old Travis Kiger FFFF story below from more info on police officer John Cross.

            Ex-Chief McKinley Unleashed Bad Cop

            Posted by Travis Kiger in Behind Closed Doors, Big Brother, Dead heads, Dick Jones, Don Bankhead, Ed Royce, Law ‘N Disorder, Patdown Pat McPension, Repuglicanism, Setting The Bar Low on October 6th, 2011

            Just for those of you who mistakenly believe FFFF has only recently become interested in the doings and misdoings of our police force, here’s a post originally published October 7, 2009 – exactly two years ago, detailing the way in which the esteemed Pat McKinley molly-coddled the worst of his boys, who just happened to be President of the Fullerton Police Officer’s Association, the union that supports the councilmen cover-up artists Jones, Bankhead, and (surprise, surprise) Pat McKinley.The incidents described here took place six years ago, leading a reasonable person to infer that the culture of corruption cultivated by McKinley has deep roots, indeed.

            Enjoy a blast from the past courtesy of the FFFF archives!

            – Joe Sipowicz

            1. con·jec·ture
                 [kuhn-jek-cher] Show IPA noun, verb, con·jec·tured, con·jec·tur·ing.

              noun
              1.
              the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

              1. #267 Fullerton Lover

                You can copy and paste with the best of them. Here’s some more “conjecture” posted by Travis Kiger three years ago:

                “Officers John Cross and Gregg Nowling were caught on tape in the 2005 beating of a young man who was pulled over for playing his music too loud. Fearing outrage, the department refused to release the recording to the public. Nowling resigned, but John Cross was the president of the Fullerton Police Officers Association (the union), so he decided to take his chances and ride out the punishment that was sure to be nothing more than a token admonishment from his friendly boss, Chief Patrick McKinley”

                Shawn Nelson, Mike “McDisability” Clessari, Sean Francis, and police union boss John Cross were a pretty tight quartet back in the day. Lots of cigar smoking at Red Cloud before the owner was busted for pulling a switch blade on a customer.

              1. Wow-Wee! A whopping $1000 from each organization! That’s what Travis Gel Kiger gets in two weeks for being a lap dog to his master.

                A Fullerton mayor does NOT negotiate solely and indiviually with police and fire. Duh.

                Rather, the mayor’s position, fairly and democratically rotated every year, is largely a ceremonial one. A mayor’s signature on a contract is, in essence, a formality, a rubber stamping of what’s already been decided upon. Not much different than a ribbon cutting for the Chamber of Commerce.

                You obviously know very little about your city and even less about how it is run.

              1. Yes, big deal, Ms. Fullerton Lover, post 271.

                An individual doesn’t waive his right to participate in the democratic process just because he accepts a job with the goverment.

                The Fullerton PD members have every right to campaign for the candidates of their choice just as a private individual has every right to throw out $300,000 in support of his candidates.

                What your link illustrates is that, back then, the Fullerton PD (almost all registered Republicans) worked to promote the careers of Norby, Clescari, Wilson, and Nelson (all Republicans).

                They didn’t give a penny or an endorsement to Quirk and Chaffee (both Democrats). In fact, they wanted those two liberals to just go away.

                1. Actually– that’s not true. May public servants do forgo campaigning in the name of public service in their roles as government employees.

                  Some examples:

                  Army
                  Navy
                  Marines
                  Air Force
                  Coast Guard

                  Women and men who put their lives on the line on a daily basis– who don’t bitch and moan about their leaders, who do their jobs regardless of how well they’re paid, and whose overwhelming interest is in protecting others and not their ATVs.

        1. Active military can participate in elections by voting, of course, and by supporting candidates’ campaigns in other ways.

          I’m so glad that this is the case for our military! our brave men and women (who are public employees that get a salary, free housing, free medical care, free education, and pensions).

          The military police (MPs) are heroes whom I particularly admire!

          What Active Duty Members Can Do:

          Can – Register, vote, and express a personal opinion on political candidates and issues, but not as a representative of the Armed Forces.

          Can – Promote and encourage other military members to exercise their voting franchise, if such promotion does not constitute an attempt to influence or interfere with the outcome of an election.

          Can – Join a political club and attend its meetings when not in uniform.

          Can – Serve as an election official, if such service is not as a representative of a partisan political party, does not interfere with the performance of military duties, is performed when not in uniform, and the Secretary concerned has given prior approval. The Secretary concerned may NOT delegate the authority to grant or deny such permission.

          Can – Sign a petition for specific legislative action or a petition to place a candidate’s name on an official election ballot, if the signing does not obligate the member to engage in partisan political activity and is done as a private citizen and not as a representative of the Armed Forces.

          Can – Write a letter to the editor of a newspaper expressing the member’s personal views on public issues or political candidates, if such action is not part of an organized letter-writing campaign or a solicitation of votes for or against a political party or partisan political cause or candidate. If the letter identifies the member as on active duty (or if the member is otherwise reasonably identifiable as a member of the Armed Forces), the letter should clearly state that the views expressed are those of the individual only and not those of the Department of Defense.

          Can – Make monetary contributions to a political organization, party, or committee favoring a particular candidate or slate of candidates, subject to the limitations of law.

          Can – Display a political sticker on the member’s private vehicle.

          Can – Attend partisan and nonpartisan political fundraising activities, meetings, rallies, debates, conventions, or activities as a spectator when not in uniform and when no inference or appearance of official sponsorship, approval, or endorsement can reasonably be drawn.

          Can – Participate fully in the Federal Voting Assistance Program.

      1. Cowboy, indeed, not everybody goes into harm’s way when they’re in the military. My career was more of a function of good luck than any exceptional skill at what I did. I trained with Warrants that never left stateside their whole career. Cowboy, if you were bleeding out on the side of the freeway who would you want flying your air ambulance? A guy who’s a few years out of civilian flight school or a guy who has 13-14000 hours of military flight time. You can’t get that experience outside of the military unless you’re some kind of a millionaire.

    3. Price/Cost: The unit cost of the UH-60M is $22.19 million (flyaway cost in 2012).

      Wow, Mark Fuhrman, $22.19 million dollars of tax dollars for your Blackhawk?

      The school where I teach was built for $2 million. That means your helicopter is worth 10 schools or so.

      When you were low on ammo, did your district ever tell you to have fundraisers to generate money? You know, bake sales, and gift wrap sales, and spaghetti dinners? How many of your men would have worked a Sat./Sun. car wash?

      In Fullerton, you can have them sell fireworks now, if there’s a defense budget problem. Kind of a fireworks for fireworks sale!

      1. Yea, dipshit. They have ammo bake sales all the time. That’s why Coffman is so damn fat. He loves those military brownies.

      2. Teaching school is an honorable profession. A helicopter is pretty expensive. Too bad I can’t show you “Patches.” “Patches” is 22 million dollar Blackhawk with over 300 bullet hole repairs and it’s still flying.

        I sincerely hope you get what you need to train the leaders of tomorrow, Jesus.

  30. last year, approximately 2000 causalties fighting the war in Afghanistan. Last year approximately 12,000 gun shot fataliies in United States.
    All prejudices aside, it is a smart cop who decks him or herself out in quasi military gear because he or she is more likely to be shot at than military personnel fighting a war.

    1. You only took American casualties into account. You also did not provide info on all gunshot deaths in Afghanistan, like you did the U.S. figure. Now provide the # of cops killed by gunfire with a bad guy, not killed in traffic collisions or dropping dead of a heart attack…… Twist figures to meet your own agenda much?

      1. I looked it up… it is 37 cops killed by gunfire in the U.S. If we took cars away from cops the # of cop deaths in the U.S. would drop considerably.

    2. having said that, the fact law enforcement has morphed into a quasi military operation due to the continued violence in US(deTocqueville(?) in the 1840’s observed the United States, and I paraphrase, to be a big, wild, violent land. and it still is. ) law enforcement walks the thin line between civility and battle. this fact demands law enforcement receive training that teaches them when to use force and when to use persuasion.
      Unfortunately for FPD, this did not happen due to retried fullerton Police chief patr McKinley’s long tenure where he played bedroom city commando more than he lead as a police chief. a good argument to disband the FPD is it has not idea of what law enforcement entails thanks to sad leadership.
      just my opinion

    3. Poor examples Van. The gunshot fatalities are for all 320,000,000 Americans, not police. How many police fatalities were there? And please do not include Chubby Ramos’ complaining on the video of his scratch on his elbow while Kelly Thomas is dying of asphyxiation 15 feet away!

  31. I don’t care whether you’re a cop or military. No one is above the law. If you kill someone illegally, you’ll pay the price.

    1. No, police officers and military personnel are Gods who can do no wrong, make no mistakes and can have sex with whomever they like even if they refuse.

      If you dare question their intentions, you are an enemy of the state, you are an enemy of our country and you are an enemy of the free world.

      Remember, they put their lives on the line so people like you can be free and not ask any questions so the next time you see a soldier or police officer, immediately avert your gaze, get on your knees and thank them for your freedoms!

      Do you hate America R.D?

    1. R.D. completely missing the sarcasm and intent of the original post is the funniest thing I’ve seen in a long time on FFFF, and, unfortunately, clearly demonstrates the intellectual level of so many people here.

      1. Cold Chillin’ Lick My Balls:

        What original post? It’s clear that USMCDOJFBIPDSD911 has a lot of hatred just like you. So much hatred that you’re blinded and can’t see the damage that you do to yourselves. Veterans will be pissed off when they read that post. He’s a disgrace to this country saying shit like that.

        1. One other thing I forgot to say…..

          BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! It’s still funny, five hours later!

          Go Team FFFF!

  32. #183, Shimon Mendel, perhaps we could also re-focus on the issue of drunken violence in downtown Fullerton

    Abolutely, I think we can do two things at the same time. I know liquor brings in the dollars; but at what cost. I think there are simply too many liquor licenses issued. Fullerton has become a magnet for the youthful drinkers and other and trouble making element because of the bars and young girls and illegal activity the bars attract. Owners needs to hire more security — they need bigger nastier bouncers to discourage the badasses.

    1. I have heard it stated over and over that the cost to police DTF exceeds the sales tax revenue to the city. The liquor peddlers have a free blackwater security force down there. The taxpayers are on the hook. Set up the checkpoints right at the exits to SOCO and Harbor. Block all other parking lot exits and arterial getaways after 10pm. Call the tow trucks, the paddy wagons and the ACLU.

  33. Shimon, did you know that all bars and restaurants can be placed under conditional use permits that includes having enough security of the permit is pulled? Fullerton has chosen NOT to use that method on their 52 bars thus causing problems that seem to grow and grow!

    1. Tuco and I actually agree on something.

      CUPs need to be reviewed, modified, and enforced. They are an excellent tool for problem bars. So are occupancy limits enforced by the Fire Department. That’s a code enforcement issue, not something a PD usually deals with.

  34. Greg Diamond :Tell me how the Posse Comitatus Act applies to paramilitary organizations.

    GReg Diamond, Please remove all your shit from fullerton, I have personally ran around town with the city peopleasking that you remove your fucking signs, and I started a documentary WHO VOTED FOR GREG…well notone person can pick you out of a line up, so lets be clear here, no fucking person in their right mind would vote for you, the 82, thousand votes, are from people who have NO IDEA how fucking lame you are. HA HA…not one person vote for you.NOT ONE, I showed them your emails and they are horrified…you are brought down by your own stupidity.

    1. Let me know what signs are still up and I’ll take them down. I heard this morning that some are up near Sharon and Loretta’s office; I’ll take those down today. Any others?

      I’m currently at 114,000 votes — a little better than 3 out of 7 throughout the district. So keep showing them my “e-mails,” whatever you mean by that. If you’ve already showed them to 82,000 people — and I admit that I’m impressed by your industry — you only have 32,000 to go.

  35. Not all those votes will apply to Flory vs Kiger, many likely would not be voting for City Council, and the ones that did would vote for many of the others running for City Council. Just my opinion.

    1. Many Policemen and retired Policemen would say many policemen dont belong in uniform or in a Dept at all. Some will even say MOST dont belong, I can understand why.

  36. Cold Chillin’ Cops Balls :
    Apples and oranges.
    How about you reference a study regarding which profession has the highest death rate from intentional acts rather than unintentional accidents?
    Last time I checked trees didn’t intentionally kill loggers, saws didn’t intentionally eat fingers, etc. No other profession that I know of (besides military) where the workers need to worry about people intentionally trying to kill them.

    What’s that got to do with anything? Actuarial stats don’t lie. It’s safer being a cop than a roofer. The educational requirements are the same.

  37. Cold Chillin’ Cops Balls :
    Apples and oranges.
    How about you reference a study regarding which profession has the highest death rate from intentional acts rather than unintentional accidents?
    Last time I checked trees didn’t intentionally kill loggers, saws didn’t intentionally eat fingers, etc. No other profession that I know of (besides military) where the workers need to worry about people intentionally trying to kill them.

    Is being a schizo homeless dude in Fullerton a profession?

    1. Can be.

      There are plenty that spend a little time posing as mentally ill so they can get bigger gubmint checks. Since they are spending time doing something for money and it’s their only source of income, I suppose you could call it a profession.

      Doubt this was the case with Kelly Thomas, but certainly the case with a significant percentage of homeless. They are quite honest about it when you take the time to talk to them, which I do.

      1. You don’t seem to think Kelly was posing as mentaly ill …..”Doubt this was the case with Kelly Thomas”
        but do you think Ramos thought Kelly was “posing as mentally ill”. If he really believed Kelly to be mentaly ill would he have been holding that baton in a threatoning posistion as he was communication with him. If I saw a mentally ill homeless person on the street acting irrationally and I was acting as a proffessional I think I would try to find was to calm him down. Model respect not lower myself to the level of street trash talk. but then again I don’t know what officers are trained to do. Mabey its ethical to trap a person in giving information by deceptive means, instead of asking directly. One thing that threatens homeless people very much is to ask them where they are sleeping…. like Ramos did. I don’t see how you can gain anything by asking such invasive questions as to leave a person feeling humiliated with less self esteem than they already have. If Hughes is really trying to reform the department why doesn’t he spend some time talking to some homeless people in person. It seems the general attitude is a lot like what you are saying…. suspicion. always suspicion of the worst a person is capable of. Thats what I like about those old police shows they officers care about helping the people they have to deal with and try to get them headed on the right track.
        I wonder Why don’t you use a title that shows your capable of sompthing a little higher than trash talk. Instead of imitating the lowest in the public would you consider a title that inspires others to rise to a higher level?

        1. a good percentage of police I would guess do care about the communities. Its easier to emulate that in the communities when it is modled from the top brass. trasparency. valuing others for there dedication and good work not because of thier rank withing the department.

        2. I’ve always said that Ramos acted unprofessionally (and unsafe) during that contact, and even if things hadn’t escalated, he should have been subject to discipline and retraining in many areas based solely upon his behavior leading up to Kelly standing. I treat all my contacts with respect as long as they are treating me with respect, and even if they don’t I cut them a lot of slack if it’s someone new that doesn’t know me. I like to build relationships, as things work out better for both sides if things are civil and there is some trust.

          Lemme put it this way….if a cop is getting his ass kicked and the homeless are nearby…..they would either ignore it, jump in and help kick the cop’s ass, or jump in and help the cop. With me, I have no doubt that they would help me.

          As for whether Ramos knew Thomas was schizo I really don’t know. The schizophrenia didn’t seem particularly symptomatic on the video.

          Asking where someone is sleeping is a fairly common question for homeless contacts. It’s not because I’m going to go to their camp…..but I do like to keep mental notes because a significant percentage of today’s homeless are tomorrow’s crime witnesses and suspects and I like to know where to find them. Fullerton doesn’t seem to be citing or arresting anybody for camping in public these days, so I don’t know why someone would find that question threatening.

          JD seems to subscribe to the same philosophy as I do, yet I see snide remarks about him here from time to time. Clearly it’s from the haters who haven’t seen him in action.

          Also….most of the videos posted showing homeless people talking about FPD show the homeless are generally positive about how they are treated. Clearly the homeless guy who wandered by the KT contact on the video thought so, even prior to the KT incident.

          As for my name…..I’m not going to explain it’s origins again. But there is a reason for it.

            1. Why? This guy’s problem is not that he can’t see invidual cases of incompetence and malice. His problem is that he can’t take the FPD history of malfeasance and come to the only logical conclusion: the department went into the shitter under McPension, then festered and blossomed under Sellers. Unfortunately Danny hughes was there every rancid stepp of the way. He rose in the ranks as the department went into the toliet.

              Only a self-delusional fool or a political liar could fail to notice the correlation.

              1. Reformers generally do come up through the system. Look at Deng Xiaopeng, Mikhail Gorbachev, F. DeKlerk. That Hughes was there during the bad times doesn’t mean that he’s not well placed to reform them. (It doesn’t guarantee that he is going to be a good reformer, either; it just doesn’t imply that he isn’t.)

          1. Cops treat people the way they are treated. If you think Ramos was being unprofessional, I think you are wrong. Kelly wasnt wearing a three piece suite and cops get down to peoples level. In this case a possible theif trying to break into cars. So i think his demeanor fits the call. Kelly was disrespectful and uncooperative the moment Ramos started talking to him.

            1. Kelly was disrespectful and uncooperative the moment Ramos started talking to him.

              Ah yes, “disrespecting” a cop gives them the right to beat you to death.

              GO LIVE IN NORTH KOREA YOU UNAMERICAN PIECE OF SHIT! YOU THUGS ARE DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY PIECE BY PIECE AND BIT BY BIT!

              AND TO THE REST OF YOU JUST SITTING BY AND LETTING THIS THUGS GET AWAY WITH THIS, THE FUTURE ISNT GOING TO BE PRETTY FOR YOU EITHER!

              YOU THINK A BUNCH OF THUGS WHO THINK ITS OKAY TO BEAT A MAN TO DEATH FOR “DISRESPECTING” THEM, WON’T COME AFTER YOU TOO?

              I’VE HAD IT!

            2. “Cops treat people the way they are treated.”

              Your ignorance is astounding. Kelly was mentally ill.

              If it had been a schizophrenic woman at the bus stop mouthing off to the cops, would they have been justified to beat her to death?

            3. My first beef with Ramos from the get go was having his baton in his hand the entire contact. No reason for it, and ultimately it’s a safety problem because one of his hands is occupied by the baton whereas it should be free. There was absolutely no reason for him to be playing with his baton during the initial contact, and it looks unprofessional as well.

              I don’t have a problem with Ramos’ verbal portion of the contact up until the point where Ramos clearly loses his temper when the mail and other items are found, then he becomes unprofessional. That wasn’t a technique he was using….he lost it. And of course, the stupid assinine comment he made while putting on the gloves…..I do think that was a bluff and he didn’t mean it, but clearly that’s not something that should have ever been said in this day and age regardless of the circumstances.

              Don’t construe this as me believing that Ramos should be criminal charged. Ciccinelli was the only one who should be facing charges (and not murder or manslaughter).

              Wolfe was professional, did nothing wrong, and will walk. Ramos was unprofessional, but not criminal, and will probably walk. Ciccinelli will be convicted of lesser charges. At least that’s how I see it.

              1. Unless you think that Ciccinelli should be charged with a misdemeanor, manslaughter fits. Homicide that occurs during the commission of a felony . . .

              2. I think when Ramos said those words Ramos he didn’t think Kelly was going to be dead at the end. I think he was done putting up with Kelly. Whether unproffessional or not, cops do this all the time. And you know it. Don’t try to pretend like you have never been an asshole in your cop career. I agree what you are saying to a certain degree. We can all assume and put our opinions, but at the end we weren’t there.

                1. he didn’t think Kelly was going to be dead at the end.

                  He didn’t care. At that point he wanted Kelly to suffer

          2. “JD seems to subscribe to the same philosophy as I do, yet I see snide remarks about him here from time to time. Clearly it’s from the haters who haven’t seen him in action.”

            And you have seem him in action? He makes more snide remarks than anyone here. He’s an instigator.

            And why do we have to see him in action to have a judgment about him? His words say it all.

      2. Check it out. The overpaid, overfed pussy cop complaining about the homeless people’s government checks.

        What. A. Pussy.

        1. Complaining about people scamming the system. Not complaining about people with legitimate serious mental illnesses who get checks.

          Just a little bit of a difference there. hater.

  38. The average person deals with the same dangerous people everyday, with nothing to protect themselves, and often without LE doing any part of anything, but does love to escalate violence and crime, knowingly or unknowingly.

    1. Americans (not in uniform and with LE) Shoot twice as many bad guys as American Policemen.

      Criminal Gangs move into areas when they are allowed, they wouldnt survive in less liberal areas, FPD has been classified as being in that category (not my opinion).

  39. East of Drake :

    Greg Diamond :Tell me how the Posse Comitatus Act applies to paramilitary organizations.

    GReg Diamond, Please remove all your shit from fullerton, I have personally ran around town with the city peopleasking that you remove your fucking signs, and I started a documentary WHO VOTED FOR GREG…well notone person can pick you out of a line up, so lets be clear here, no fucking person in their right mind would vote for you, the 82, thousand votes, are from people who have NO IDEA how fucking lame you are. HA HA…not one person vote for you.NOT ONE, I showed them your emails and they are horrified…you are brought down by your own stupidity.

    you won’t hear from greg for awhile, he’s at costco eating 10,000 dollars worth of polish sausage’s.

    1. *mumbles* …That’s libel and slander. *chop* *chew* …and racist! *burp* …I’m going to contact the site owners to DSL the IP so I can get an skip trace on the IP with the ISP and sue whoever is posting this libelous, slanderous and inflammatory messages. *fart* *sniff* …ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh pungent yet warm and moist.

      1. Nah — I limit my accusations of defamation to instances of actual defamation.

        For example, your comment is not legally defamatory. It is dumbshittery, but that’s protected speech. That’s lucky for you; otherwise this site would be reduced to nothing but determiners and conjunctions.

  40. JOHN DOE :
    Cops treat people the way they are treated. If you think Ramos was being unprofessional, I think you are wrong. Kelly wasnt wearing a three piece suite and cops get down to peoples level. In this case a possible theif trying to break into cars. So i think his demeanor fits the call. Kelly was disrespectful and uncooperative the moment Ramos started talking to him.

    Rule of Law dictates everybodie’s behavior.

  41. No. A cop does not treat others the way he is treated. A cop is suppose to be above those who treat others unjustly. Was Kelly non-compliant, yes. Was Ramos acting like an immature, power tripping P.O.S, absolutely. The fact of the matter is, Ramos chose violence because Kelly wasn’t following his orders. His ego was hurt and wanted to beat someone up. The pen is mightier, and the intelligence of police officers is suppose to be mightier than those in society. However, in this instance it wasn’t and it’s coming out that common sense, patience, and FOLLOWING procedures is lacking at FPD. In my training, it never said to beat the living shit out of someone for not following your demands..If police officers are so sensitive from a schizophrenic man maybe, just maybe those individuals should NOT be in law enforcement. Wake up law enforcement..you either adapt/evolve into logical human beings or continue to have lawsuit after lawsuit handed to you. I promise you, they will keep coming until you stop. The D.A can only protect you for so long…you can thank the cameras for exposing you.

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