FEDERAL JUDGE “SHOCKED” BY FULLERTON’S HANDLING OF FPD SEX ASSAULTS


There’s a new filing in the Officer Rincon sexual assault case, and it’s not looking good for the city.

Federal Judge Andrew Guilford turned down the City’s request to throw out the case, and he offered his pointed thoughts on the Fullerton Police Department’s policy of ignoring officer misdeeds:


The Judge chastised the city for “tacit authorization” of Rincon’s despicable behavior.

Then the judge was shocked at the city’s failure to appropriately discipline the officer for his sexual assaults on multiple women.

Finally, the judge conveyed his dismay that Rincon is still on the loose with a gun and a badge.

Of course, the man responsible for puting, and keeping loverboy on the streets of Fullerton to prey upon unsuspecting women was none other than former police chief and current city councilman, Pat McKinley.

I wonder what Chief Pat has to say about the Judge’s comments? I wonder what his defenders – who like to call Fullerton a “family community” – have to say.

it's easy, no hair, no mirror

Lookin' out for the ladies. Oh, yeah!

And of course I wonder how many of the people that voted for this screw-up last November would have done so had they known of the extensive culture of corruption that was cultivated by McKinley in the Fullerton Police Department; a cultivation that is only now blossoming into a full, noxious bloom.

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  1. #1 by Disgusted on September 27, 2011

    First!!!

  2. #2 by na on September 27, 2011

    How pitiful and shameful! I’m
    so disgusted with FPD. How many lives have the bad apples affected? Just sickening.

  3. #3 by van get it da artiste on September 27, 2011

    leave rusty kennedy’s pal alone. obviously the legal system fails to value Pat Mckinley, ex-police chief and ex-member of rusty’s orange county human relations commission board, contributions to society. so rincon committed most of his sexual assaults under mckinley’s watch does that mean mckinley is culpable? most people would say yes. but that is unfair because mckinley really is a nice guy

  4. #4 by Tom on September 27, 2011

    Sick and disgusting, but sadly unsurprising.

  5. #5 by tigermanlsu on September 27, 2011

    WOW JUST WOW!!! THE FED,S DON,T PLAY.

  6. #6 by Fullerton on September 27, 2011

    “There are really great cops out there” is a serious lies. Fullerton nurtures a culture of corruption and habor enterprise criminals all these years, starting from the top.
    Fullerton got exactly what they voted for. Humans, politics, and behaviors are so complex.

  7. #7 by LeRoy Murray on September 27, 2011

    Again if ordinary citizens had done this, Rincon would have arrested them and thrown them in jail. But because of the badge, Rincon does it over and over and over and walks away laughing. He also should be in prison. If seven women came forward , he’s probably assulted and raped 700, or 7000, or more, who knows…

  8. #8 by AntiCorruptionUnit on September 27, 2011

    Pretty scathing report on FPD’s policies. Like I said before, be happy the FBI is looking into this.

    I’ll bet they look at this blog too!!! So they know what’s going on.

  9. #9 by Travis Kiger on September 27, 2011

    Very disturbing. How many other cases of officer abuse have been successfully whitewashed over the years?

    A responsible City Council would demand an immediate outside review of every single complaint filed against the FPD in the last five years.

  10. #10 by Travis Kiger on September 27, 2011

    Yes, the FBI reads our blog.

  11. #11 by Robert Kohlminer on September 27, 2011

    At the last protest I heard people talking about how Fullerton cops make women in short skirts sit in a certain positions so their underwear or privates are exposed.

    Can anyone expand on this?

  12. #12 by AntiCorruptionUnit on September 27, 2011

    Thanks Travis.

    As to comment #10 you can bet the FBI will be looking into how the FPD handles their internal investigations too, right along with the Office of Independant Review that the City Manger hired. Both agencies have their microscopes out, but it will take sometime to go through YEARS of corruption and mismangement.

    I doubt too many of the good ol boys will survive this type of scrutiny. Not in 2011.

  13. #13 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    van get it da artiste :
    leave rusty kennedy’s pal alone. obviously the legal system fails to value Pat Mckinley, ex-police chief and ex-member of rusty’s orange county human relations commission board, contributions to society. so rincon committed most of his sexual assaults under mckinley’s watch does that mean mckinley is culpable? most people would say yes. but that is unfair because mckinley really is a nice guy

    McKinley would make a really nice urinal in a Federal Penitentiary yard

  14. #14 by Boo boo on September 27, 2011

    Last week this blog was saying Wren was a sexual predator. That aligation saw thrown out. Par for this blog

  15. #15 by corrupt on September 27, 2011

    So it looks like Rincon will be joining the NOPD in Federal prison….. Is the rest of FPD looking at this, better call the Feds now before someone else does and gets the sweatheart deal….. If McKinley covered this up and thinks he is immune from prosecution just because he is retired…. think again.

  16. #16 by BillyBob on September 27, 2011

    Watching these new developments from out of state. It seems that the whole world is watching.

    Get a rope, people. Is that Rincon in the photo posted above? They all kinda look alike with the shaved domes.

  17. #17 by cg on September 27, 2011

    He is still on the streets. Hide your daughters!!!! How can I say this “SICK”.

  18. #18 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    Maybe all women and girls of Fullerton, and any who may just be passing through, should consider She Bear training. Oh, wait a minute….

    There is something truly bizarre about all of this, the depth and breadth of the corruption and criminality at play by Fullerton LE and city officials. How many people have not come forward who have been unlawfully arrested, beaten and abused? For every one who has the courage to do it, there are likely others who are not resilient enough to step forward.

  19. #19 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    WHERE ARE THE GOOD COPS?

  20. #20 by Peaches on September 27, 2011

    Guilford was also the judge on the Carona case – he doesn’t take “guff” from anyone and seems to be a stand up guy as this document would seem to indicate.

    The document might be a good “talking point” for anyone attending the She Bear training that McKinley is currently scheduled to present in Brea in mid-October…

  21. #21 by 007 on September 27, 2011

    Fullerton :
    “There are really great cops out there” is a serious lies. Fullerton nurtures a culture of corruption and habor enterprise criminals all these years, starting from the top.
    Fullerton got exactly what they voted for. Humans, politics, and behaviors are so complex.

    Lot’s of good cops I mean four of them on video watching Kelly Thomas being sadisticly murdered. Oh, the DA says the four onlookers in blue can’t be prosecuted. Well how about all the citizens who witnesses Ramos and Cinnelli carry out the execution why can’t we arrest them? The fullerton citizens are all guilty of not making a citizen arrest. Let’s not forget the crew back at the police bunker enjoying the street justice in real time with the popcorn.

    stood by while Kelly Thomas was sadisticly butchered to death

  22. #22 by Poor Richard on September 27, 2011

    Did that judge use the term “weak sauce?”

    This is disgusting.

  23. #23 by 007 on September 27, 2011

    Anonymous :
    WHERE ARE THE GOOD COPS?

    Out on disability with the Chief.

  24. #24 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    got a ‘weak sauce’ from the Judge, wow.
    FPD, Fondling Police Dept.

  25. #25 by cg on September 27, 2011

    SAD.I do not believe there are any good cops, on the FPD. If there is they are looking for new jobs. To bad, they have to put FPD on their resume.

  26. #26 by 007 on September 27, 2011

    Peaches :
    Guilford was also the judge on the Carona case – he doesn’t take “guff” from anyone and seems to be a stand up guy as this document would seem to indicate.
    The document might be a good “talking point” for anyone attending the She Bear training that McKinley is currently scheduled to present in Brea in mid-October…

    Think so. With all the steady escalating media coverage of the gruesome public assassination of Kelly, this is an opportunity for another corrupt carpetbagger to further his carreer.

  27. #27 by hoover on September 27, 2011

    Travis Kiger :
    Yes, the FBI reads our blog.

    When are they going to get off their asses and do something.

  28. #28 by hoover on September 27, 2011

    Anonymous :
    WHERE ARE THE GOOD COPS?

    NO WHERE

  29. #29 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    Why is Fullerton this fucked up

    and why does anyone trust that DA

    DA’s own report even says Wolfe ASSAULTED Kelly with his nightstick which forced Kelly to run

  30. #30 by Dick Ackerman on September 27, 2011

    Who cares if a few broads get groped in the backseat of a cop car. I’ve got several million riding on a low income housing deal.

  31. #31 by Mike @ Here on September 27, 2011

    I said it before and I’ll say it again, Heads are gonna roll. This shit is SO DEEP the Fed’s are going to have their hands full with all the endless corruption going on in Fullerton. This train wreck just keeps getting bigger & bigger & BIGGER!!!

  32. #32 by Travis Kiger on September 27, 2011

    Wrong. This blog said that the plaintiffs had accused Wren of helping Rincon by falsifying a DUI test. That statement is still 100% true.

    The plaintiffs dropped the case against Officer Wren obviously because he is such a stand up guy with absolutely no criminal history at all (sarcasm.)

  33. #33 by 9c1copcar on September 27, 2011

    It is a shame that some explorer programs had to be canceled because of officers taking sexual advantages of underage girls.

  34. #34 by 9c1copcar on September 27, 2011

    ……….On some depts.

  35. #35 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    They’ll probably slither back to Corona PD.

  36. #36 by TIMMY on September 27, 2011

    Mike @ Here :
    I said it before and I’ll say it again, Heads are gonna roll. This shit is SO DEEP the Fed’s are going to have their hands full with all the endless corruption going on in Fullerton. This train wreck just keeps getting bigger & bigger & BIGGER!!!

    These monsters are all going out on workers comp.

  37. #37 by cg on September 27, 2011

    If the FBI is listening. We have two colleges in this city, and a lot of young women to for Rincon to take advantage of. So what are they waiting for? These girls are somebodies babies.

  38. #38 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    Who can you call if the police are the ones committing murder? I would think they would be afraid for their own lives, and I frankly think they had good reason to be. Do you really think a group of out of control police officers who are in the process of beating a man to death are going to acquiesce to a citizen’s arrest? We’ve already seen what happened to the guy who was videoing his friend being arrested with excessive force–he was assaulted by police officers and arrested on false charges that he had jumped on the back of one of the officers and choked him. Since there was a big group of officers standing around for that incident as well, who also wrote false reports, it only further shows the complete corruption of the force.

    According to this filing, there were twelve women who made complaints, seven who were interviewed, and FIVE others who were “unable to be interviewed.” I wonder what happened to those women? I hope they will come forward.

  39. #39 by Mat PcKinley on September 27, 2011

    You want to talk about Wren’s problems in a neighboring county?

    That’s coming to a theater near you, soon.

  40. #40 by TIMMY on September 27, 2011

    Mike @ Here :
    I said it before and I’ll say it again, Heads are gonna roll. This shit is SO DEEP the Fed’s are going to have their hands full with all the endless corruption going on in Fullerton. This train wreck just keeps getting bigger & bigger & BIGGER!!!

    The FBIs too busy removing the perverts in the Orange County jail system before they torture more mentally ill prisoners.

  41. #41 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    Someone should compile a packet on the sexual assault cases involving Fullerton PD and send it to National Organization for Women (NOW).

    Its a long shot but if they decide to get involved it may encourage other women to come forward.

  42. #42 by Mat PcKinley on September 27, 2011

    These girls are Ricon’s baby’s, oh yeah!

  43. #43 by tigermanlsu on September 27, 2011

    THAT,S WHAT THE FED,S ARE TRYING TO FIND-OUT RIGHT NOW!!!

  44. #44 by Where's Ed? on September 27, 2011

    The little slug promoted McKinley and got him into office. This won’t look good in the upcoming congressional campaign!

  45. #45 by Fullerton Citizen on September 27, 2011

    Speaking of colleges in this city. How is that Chief Sellers was out on disability for medical reasons but had the ability to appear at at lease one Fullerton Junior College Police Academy training session AFTER he went out on medical leave?? How can you go out on disability for one job but not the other?

    Isn’t that insurance fraud? No different than a claim of a bad back, then you go water skiing.

  46. #46 by cg on September 27, 2011

    what are you 16!!!!!!

  47. #47 by Joe Sipowicz on September 27, 2011

    Oh, I haven’t forgotten this zit. I’m doing a follow up post on the harm unleashed on our city by Ed Royce.

    I want Royce to explain to the public his record supporting Jones, Bankhead, and now McSex Assault.

    It may be a one man campaign but I’m going to find a third Republican alternative to Miller and Royce.

  48. #48 by Joe Sipowicz on September 27, 2011

    Please give me some back-up on that and we will have ourselves a nice little post!

  49. #49 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    love your anti-recall website! The member list is coming soon, can’t wait!!!!!

  50. #50 by TIMMY on September 27, 2011

    na :
    How pitiful and shameful! I’m
    so disgusted with FPD. How many lives have the bad apples affected? Just sickening.

    God only knows what we won’t know. The cover ups that the entire Fullerton Police Force have buried. There is no way the high price talent in the FPD can claim no knowledge of the many crimes against the people.

  51. #51 by Joe Sipowicz on September 27, 2011

    This Independent Review is a joke. Don’t count on that for anything but a thick coat of whitewash.

  52. #52 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    From Judge Guilford’s filing:

    “Once McLean finished his OCDA investigation, he sent his results to the District Attorney’s Office. The District Attorney’s Office decided not to seek criminal charges. There are no facts in the record that reveal why.”

  53. #53 by Hair Club for Men on September 27, 2011

    Is that bald dude Rincon?

  54. #54 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    Dear FBI,

    PLEASE HELP US!

  55. #55 by Joe Sipowicz on September 27, 2011

    Thanks, bless. I’ve been wondering about that, too.

    Maybe EyeNeverSayNo will favor us with a four or five paragraph apology as to why Rackauckas did nothing to get a sex criminal off the streets.

  56. #56 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    Yes, please enlighten us.

  57. #57 by Ivn on September 27, 2011

    we need a picture of rincon, citizens of fullerton should be aware of his appearance.

  58. #58 by Erin on September 27, 2011

    What have I been saying for a long time now? DISBAND the FPD!

  59. #59 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    I know, right? It only gets worse and worse.

  60. #60 by fullerton lover on September 27, 2011

    Travis,
    I wonder if the FBI will be looking into our new Police Chief Kevin Hamilton’s discharging of his sidearm within city limits out of the roof of a limo that him and the wrecking crew had rented for the night Kevin Hamilton’s birthday?

  61. #61 by We Are All One on September 27, 2011

    It seems to me a good police force would take an officer accused of sexual assault/misconduct of any kind seriously the FIRST time. The Dept. obviously had evidence that would show these claims were legitimate and should have at least put the officer on leave while doing an investigation. This is what a good PD would and should do. I’m far from any kind of expert, but it seems pretty clear that an officer who has access to women and a gun and a badge should be clean as fucking whistle.

    Hey FPD and anyone else that let this guy continue to violate women: what if your babysitter or your kids’ teacher were accused of molesting children, would you still let them near these people? NO. Absofuckinglutely not. Why the fuck would you knowingly put the citizens at risk? What the hell is wrong with you??

  62. #62 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    Joe Sipowicz :
    Thanks, bless. I’ve been wondering about that, too.
    Maybe EyeNeverSayNo will favor us with a four or five paragraph apology as to why Rackauckas did nothing to get a sex crimonal off the streets.

    There are a lot of really really I mean REALLY strange supporters of law enforcement here.. really weird

    DA’s OWN REPORTS SAYS WOLFE ASSAULTED KELLY FIRST WITH HIS NIGHTSTICK .. yet no charges filed..

    WHERE ARE THE GOOD COPS to bring this sick bunch to PAY!!!!!!!!!!!

  63. #63 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    Thats Pat McBoobies

  64. #64 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    Erin :
    What have I been saying for a long time now? DISBAND the FPD!

    and I would rather see the Navy fly a few sorties over FPD… they are all cockroaches…

    If they goods ones bullet the bad ones then they are no good

    The chief left the badges on the FPD6.. should be enough to tell you all you will ever need to know

  65. #65 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    “weak sauce that does nothing to hide the unpleasant taste of complicity.”

    That’s putting it mildly (no pun intended).

  66. #66 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    *should read
    If the good ones won’t bullet the bad ones then there are not any good ones

  67. #67 by Erin on September 27, 2011

    Every Saturday morning I tell the them I want them disbanded. Hell, I even offered to help them embellish their resume’s to get them jobs elsewhere. No takers.. Hmmmmm Stupid lil faks!

  68. #68 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    These are only twelve we know of. How many women did not formally complain and how many complaints went to File 13?

  69. #69 by fullerton lover on September 27, 2011

    A liitle biography on Judge Guilford’s legal qualifications…note that Judge Guilford was appointed by George Bush and was subsequently unanimously confirmed by the U.S. Senate 93-0

    http://www.metnews.com/articles/2006/guil062606.htm

  70. #70 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    Orange County is keeping the FBI busy these days!

  71. #71 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    That’s horrible.

  72. #72 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    Anonymous :
    Someone should compile a packet on the sexual assault cases involving Fullerton PD and send it to National Organization for Women (NOW).
    Its a long shot but if they decide to get involved it may encourage other women to come forward.

    http://www.nowoc.org/news.php
    Orange County NOW
    California NOW National NOW

    P.O. Box 307
    428 J Street, Suite 280 1100 H Street, Third Floor
    Laguna Beach, CA 92652 Sacramento, CA 95814
    Washington, DC 20005
    949.595.8803
    916.442.3414 202.628.8669
    info@nowoc.org
    canow@canow.org info@now.org
    http://www.nowoc.org http://www.canow.org
    http://www.now.org

  73. #73 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    Orange County NOW
    California NOW National NOW

    P.O. Box 307
    428 J Street, Suite 280 1100 H Street, Third Floor
    Laguna Beach, CA 92652 Sacramento, CA 95814
    Washington, DC 20005
    949.595.8803
    916.442.3414 202.628.8669
    info@nowoc.org
    canow@canow.org info@now.org
    http://www.nowoc.org http://www.canow.org
    http://www.now.org

  74. #74 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    “Independent” Review will not bite the hand that feeds it.

  75. #75 by LaRoo on September 27, 2011

    Does anyone have pictures of these two perps?

    I cannot seem to find a picture online in regards to these two because if the faces match the officers I came across…I too would like to file complaints.

    MY EXPERIENCES:

    1) I was pulled over for window tint and out of state license plate and long story short there was one female civilian (me) and 5 male officers on the scene. Not once was a female officer called to the scene. I am thankful I was pulled over on the street I lived on and my husband was home to verify everything.

    2) I was traveling on Malvern and was pulled over turning south onto Euclid. I purposely turned into the 5 Twelve parking lot under the light to make sure there was no funny business. Officer asked me a laundry list of things which reminded me of “fishing for a reason”.

    His questions were about the location of my cell phone (it was in my purse in the back seat) and when he heard that, he said it must have been the dashboard or my GPS device that gave off a light to make him think I was on my cell phone. Then he inquired about my blinker being out and because it was a rental, I asked him how I should handle the replacement…that threw him off for a minute. And then mentioned the reason he pulled me over was for not turning into the right lane when I turned south onto Euclid.

    Please post the pictures if you have them so female residents know who to look for if and when they come across these perps! Thanks!

  76. #76 by Caroline on September 27, 2011

    This is all the more disturbing considering the low percentage of women actually coming forward to report a sexual assault. When the assaulter is a police officer, I’m sure the report rate is even lower because of fear of reprisal.

    I’d guess the number is quite a bit higher than seven.

  77. #77 by Joe Sipowicz on September 27, 2011

    Yes, I believe that is a very safe assumption. Most serial criminals keep at it.

    But somebody in the FPD was protecting this pervert. I wonder who that could be.

  78. #78 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    Five police officers for a traffic stop? What’s that about?

  79. #79 by One for the books on September 27, 2011

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again… the Fed’s need to come in and investigate the city from top to bottom!! In the year 2011, when the world is supposed to be civilized, it is really disheartening and pathetic that this would happen in the United States of America! Utterly PATHETIC!!

  80. #80 by English Major on September 27, 2011

    Judge Guilford has a literary flair.

  81. #81 by irving on September 27, 2011

    LaRoo :
    Does anyone have pictures of these two perps?
    I cannot seem to find a picture online in regards to these two because if the faces match the officers I came across…I too would like to file complaints.
    MY EXPERIENCES:
    1) I was pulled over for window tint and out of state license plate and long story short there was one female civilian (me) and 5 male officers on the scene. Not once was a female officer called to the scene. I am thankful I was pulled over on the street I lived on and my husband was home to verify everything.
    2) I was traveling on Malvern and was pulled over turning south onto Euclid. I purposely turned into the 5 Twelve parking lot under the light to make sure there was no funny business. Officer asked me a laundry list of things which reminded me of “fishing for a reason”.
    His questions were about the location of my cell phone (it was in my purse in the back seat) and when he heard that, he said it must have been the dashboard or my GPS device that gave off a light to make him think I was on my cell phone. Then he inquired about my blinker being out and because it was a rental, I asked him how I should handle the replacement…that threw him off for a minute. And then mentioned the reason he pulled me over was for not turning into the right lane when I turned south onto Euclid.
    Please post the pictures if you have them so female residents know who to look for if and when they come across these perps! Thanks!

    Lady you were lucky.

  82. #82 by cg on September 27, 2011

    There are no good ones…I am a Fullerton resident and I will not call FPD, to protect me. I will protect myself. We in Fullerton no longer have protection. We have to protect ourselves.

  83. #83 by Peaches on September 27, 2011

    Ask Fullerton College about that; oh, I guess training new recruits is far less stressful than sitting in a Council meeting during Public Comments

  84. #84 by Citizen M on September 27, 2011

    WTF? Even I may have a beer and watch my nay-bors…..seriously need a photo of this guy stat!

  85. #85 by Tracey on September 27, 2011

    The Fullerton PD needs to be shut down.

    I know that there are good cops out there (91C) but in my 40+ years, all my experiences with cops have been bad and scary. My first was when I was 17. I had fallen asleep at a friends house and woke up late, after my curfew. I tried to rush home and ran out of gas. It was midnight. A cop rolled up on me and was a dick from the get go. He sarcastically asked me if I knew where nuetral was and pushed me over to the curb and while laughing, told me to be carful walking home. I was scared to death. I had a blanket in my car, wrapped it around me and started to run. Halfway home a van full of bangers pulled up and through open the sliding door and told me to get in. I was so scared I literally peed my pants. I booked it home, woke up my parents and they went to file a report. Guess what, nothing happend. They wouldn’t even take a report.

    Years later, I called the police to have my ex-husband removed from my home. The cop who showed up succeeded in getting him to leave. 30 minutes later the cop came back and asked me to go out with him. I told him I was not interested and then he stalked my house for awhile.

    When I was 25 I was robbed at gunpoint at work. The cop that showed up to take a report yelled at me and told me it was my fault. He told me I should not have complied.

    I’m sorry to say that I do not respect the police. But it’s not just me. A few years back I was at a preschool, the kids were reading a book about fire and police personnel and a 4 year old pipped up and said he doesn’t like policemen. When asked why he said cause they beat people up. Then, the whole group of kids agreed and started giveing examples. These were four year olds.

    I sure hope and pray that no one else is assaulted, harrassed, belittled, beaten, molested or murdered by FPD. The FBI needs to swoop in like SWAT and take every gun and badge till the department can be sorted out. This is outrageous!

  86. #86 by irving on September 27, 2011

    Anyone else would be in the can and marked for life as a sex offender. But the boys in blue are excluded from the law.

  87. #87 by irving on September 27, 2011

    Tracey :
    The Fullerton PD needs to be shut down.
    I know that there are good cops out there (91C) but in my 40+ years, all my experiences with cops have been bad and scary. My first was when I was 17. I had fallen asleep at a friends house and woke up late, after my curfew. I tried to rush home and ran out of gas. It was midnight. A cop rolled up on me and was a dick from the get go. He sarcastically asked me if I knew where nuetral was and pushed me over to the curb and while laughing, told me to be carful walking home. I was scared to death. I had a blanket in my car, wrapped it around me and started to run. Halfway home a van full of bangers pulled up and through open the sliding door and told me to get in. I was so scared I literally peed my pants. I booked it home, woke up my parents and they went to file a report. Guess what, nothing happend. They wouldn’t even take a report.
    Years later, I called the police to have my ex-husband removed from my home. The cop who showed up succeeded in getting him to leave. 30 minutes later the cop came back and asked me to go out with him. I told him I was not interested and then he stalked my house for awhile.
    When I was 25 I was robbed at gunpoint at work. The cop that showed up to take a report yelled at me and told me it was my fault. He told me I should not have complied.
    I’m sorry to say that I do not respect the police. But it’s not just me. A few years back I was at a preschool, the kids were reading a book about fire and police personnel and a 4 year old pipped up and said he doesn’t like policemen. When asked why he said cause they beat people up. Then, the whole group of kids agreed and started giveing examples. These were four year olds.
    I sure hope and pray that no one else is assaulted, harrassed, belittled, beaten, molested or murdered by FPD. The FBI needs to swoop in like SWAT and take every gun and badge till the department can be sorted out. This is outrageous!

    Tracey, what else is new? I suggest you carry a camera phone with you at all times. These bastards will find who we are and stalk us and silence the website.

  88. #88 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    It’s a mandatory policy to have the DAR on? Wasn’t it revealed that Hampton and Cicinelli did not have theirs on during the Kelly Thomas’ murder? If it’s mandatory, what is the consequence of turning it off or not turning it on?

  89. #89 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    Is there a record of this?

  90. #90 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    It’s gonna take quite a few thick coats to cover this whitewash. Although looks like there have already been several coats applied.

  91. #91 by Peaches on September 27, 2011

    Well, any “consequences” have to be enforced… Rincon’s apparent failure to follow DAR policy and the apparent failure of several at the Kelly Thomas beating to follow DAR policy may offer an opportunity for any company that makes these devices to develop one that cannot be shut off… Yeah, in a perfect world.

  92. #92 by The future is here. on September 27, 2011

    They need evidence of that, or its a waste of time.

  93. #93 by irving on September 27, 2011

    blessusall :
    It’s a mandatory policy to have the DAR on? Wasn’t it revealed that Hampton and Cicinelli did not have theirs on during the Kelly Thomas’ murder? If it’s mandatory, what is the consequence of turning it off or not turning it on?

    NOTHING. The brass instructs them to keep it off whenever the boys are doing business.

  94. #94 by Erin on September 27, 2011

    STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING!

  95. #95 by Fullerorange on September 27, 2011

    Disband this outfit of misfits as soon as possible. Recall the three goofs and let’s start from scratch. This is what happens when people do not pay attention to what goes on in their city. After all is said and done, hopefully some good will come of all of this, but at a very high cost. Kelly gave his life so others would not suffer at the hands of tyrants. Kelly was guilty of being Kelly. That’s it. That’s not a crime. Take a look at your town…….it may not be as it seems….

  96. #96 by Erin on September 27, 2011

    I concur.

  97. #97 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    It happens all the time, over and over again.

    Its time to put educated people out there on the force with a minimum 6 year bachlors in socieology and phsycology.

    Fire all the others.

  98. #98 by 9c1copcar on September 27, 2011

    BLESSUSALL,

    Usually, the punishment for something like that is a few days off.

  99. #99 by 9c1copcar on September 27, 2011

    …..That’s if it comes out in an investigation.

  100. #100 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    Erin, It made my stomach turn just now to read that because we know that is what they do and it is so very seriously sick.

  101. #101 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    And defend yourselves–from the police.

  102. #102 by We Are All One on September 27, 2011

    I had spoken with a few of the homeless at the fundraiser/concert for Kelly and learned a little about one particular officer who routinely harasses and tickets them for unlawful camping, even though it’s on their friends private property, yet he never tickets or harasses another homeless lady who is frequently drunk and causing problems and is seen coming out of the back of this officer’s patty wagon -

    One of the homeless said he had done one really nice thing for their friend so that was nice to hear. But knowing he was harassing people that had no where to go and may be getting sexual favors from a homeless woman gave me the creeps. He was the officer at the event that was dark haired with a mustache and kinda large. Of course it’s all hearsay, but still made me think ..

  103. #103 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    Indeed he does. I love it. Somehow I get the idea that he is as disgusted as the Fullerton citizens are at this mess.

  104. #104 by We Are All One on September 27, 2011

    Erin :
    STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING!

    I was at the outdoor market in Brea today and overheard three cops saying exactly that and laughing. I wasn’t sure who they were mocking. It was unsettling.

  105. #105 by irving on September 27, 2011

    LeRoy Murray :
    Again if ordinary citizens had done this, Rincon would have arrested them and thrown them in jail. But because of the badge, Rincon does it over and over and over and walks away laughing. He also should be in prison. If seven women came forward , he’s probably assulted and raped 700, or 7000, or more, who knows…

    Now ‘s the opportunity to encourage citizens to step forward and disclose their personal abuses by these monsters. Just as sinister are the cops who stay silent and allow these serial sexual predators to continue to destroy our women and children.

  106. #106 by Fred Alcazar on September 27, 2011

    McPension won his election by 80 votes – under completely false pretenses. If the voters had known what a cesspool he turned the FPD into he would have come in behind marty Burbank.

    HELL YES I WANT A RE DO!!!!!

  107. #107 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    The Judge suggests that “a reasonable juror could conclude that the City simply did not care about what it’s officers did to women during arrest.”

    At this point, even an unreasonable juror could conclude that.

  108. #108 by Kevin on September 27, 2011

    “weak sauce”

    I can’t find that in my legal dictionary????

    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I absolutely love this judge!!!!

  109. #109 by lenny on September 27, 2011

    We Are All One :

    Erin :
    STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING!

    I was at the outdoor market in Brea today and overheard three cops saying exactly that and laughing. I wasn’t sure who they were mocking. It was unsettling.

    If true you need to drop a dime anonymously call one of the media outlets. Find out who they are and send an anonymous letter to KFI.
    Get a hold of one of those video cameras some are cheap and do the job. Try and tape secretly and upload it to youtube anonymously. Don’t get caught they’ll butcher you in public.

  110. #110 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    When’s the next City Council meeting?

  111. #111 by Kevin on September 27, 2011

    What are we doing in regards to contacting the Soroptimist club to express distaste for holding a forum with McKinley presenting safety tactics to women and young girls???

    http://www.soroptimistblh.org/

    I want to email them and their international office as well.

  112. #112 by Hollis Dugan on September 27, 2011

    He could always be asked the question under oath. False denial under penalty of perjury is itself a crime.

  113. #113 by lenny on September 27, 2011

    Kevin :
    What are we doing in regards to contacting the Soroptimist club to express distaste for holding a forum with McKinley presenting safety tactics to women and young girls???
    http://www.soroptimistblh.org/
    I want to email them and their international office as well.

    OFFICER RINCON IS THE FEATURED SPEAKER.

  114. #114 by Barry Levinson on September 27, 2011

    The facts seem to suggest that there was a pattern of illegal behavior that time and time again was tolerated by the former Chief of Police McKinley.
    What message does it send to the average person when a police officer does something that should be grounds for discipline or even dismissal, and then is allowed to do it again and again?

    Did that tolerence cross the line into acceptance by Chief McKinley? Did these rogue police officers interpret his leadership as encouragement to break the rules and take away the constitutional rights of its citizens? There may be enough evidence to put that question to a jury.

    Finaly, one might conclude that at the center of the legal problems now facing the Fullerton Police Department is Council member and former Police Chief Patrick McKinley.

    The hardworking men and women of the city of Fullerton will most likely have to pay millions of their tax dollars to settle all these lawsuits.

    My question is will the judicial system hold Patrick McKinley accountable as well?

  115. #115 by Erin on September 27, 2011

    lenny, they’re sick fak’s.. All of them.. It doesn’t matter what form of civil service they do.

  116. #116 by blessusall on September 27, 2011

    I would suggest you travel in pairs when out and about the City of Fullerton. Seriously.

  117. #117 by lenny on September 27, 2011

    Barry Levinson :
    The facts seem to suggest that there was a pattern of illegal behavior that time and time again was tolerated by the former Chief of Police McKinley.
    What message does it send to the average person when a police officer does something that should be grounds for discipline or even dismissal, and then is allowed to do it again and again?
    Did that tolerence cross the line into acceptance by Chief McKinley? Did these rogue police officers interpret his leadership as encouragement to break the rules and take away the constitutional rights of its citizens? There may be enough evidence to put that question to a jury.
    Finaly, one might conclude that at the center of the legal problems now facing the Fullerton Police Department is Council member and former Police Chief Patrick McKinley.
    The hardworking men and women of the city of Fullerton will most likely have to pay millions of their tax dollars to settle all these lawsuits.
    My question is will the judicial system hold Patrick McKinley accountable as well?

    BARRY you are on top of what’s important to these criminals. These crooks will step away with lucrative pensions over funded by our tax dollars. They are leaving us astronomical legal and financial responsibility for their crimes against us their employers. There should be a law that when a cop is sued the legal and settlement expenses be the responsibility of the Police union.
    REMOVE THE MONEY FROM THEIR EXCESSIVE PENSION FUND.

  118. #118 by Kevin on September 27, 2011

    Um, no, McKinley is the featured speaker along with his book.

  119. #119 by Erin on September 27, 2011

    I flat out told McKinley at the 8-3-11 City Council Meeting he is responsible for all the corruption in the FPD

  120. #120 by Darth McKinley on September 27, 2011

    I was busy dressing up in my McKinley vest in front of the mirror and sleeping in my office.

  121. #121 by Jt on September 27, 2011

    AntiCorruptionUnit – do you know for a fact that the FBI is investigating beyond the Kelly Thomas killing? Or that they are adequately investigating even that? Again, many of us know eyewitnesses who have said that they have not been interviewed by the FBI at all yet, which is kind of disturbing.

    For a broader investigation of the entire FPD, wouldn’t we need the Special Litigation Section of DOJ’s Civil RIghts Division? My understanding is that is the group of Feds who seriously scrutizine law enforcement agencies where there is a pattern of misconduct, crime, and corruption.

    Either way, I agree with Travis. Someone with true authority and power needs to be looking at EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT.

  122. #122 by Jt on September 27, 2011

    “How many people have not come forward who have been unlawfully arrested, beaten and abused? For every one who has the courage to do it, there are likely others who are not resilient enough to step forward.”

    Exactly!

  123. #123 by Jt on September 27, 2011

    Notice a pattern? Wrongdoing by a Fullerton police officer. The Chief doesn’t seem to care. The City Council doesn’t seem to care. Put that on an endless tape loop.

  124. #124 by Erin on September 27, 2011

    I meant 8-2-11..

  125. #125 by Rincon on September 27, 2011

    Did you say She Bare? Where do I sign up?

  126. #126 by We Want Names on September 27, 2011

    Someone’s got to know the name of that junbo officer.

  127. #127 by We Are All One on September 27, 2011

    * and is often seen coming out of the back of this officer’s patty wagon -

  128. #128 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    wow, i’m speechless. these councilmen need to be recalled and the fpd disbanded. if it were a house it would have been condemned long ago.

  129. #129 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    We Are All One :I had spoken with a few of the homeless at the fundraiser/concert for Kelly and learned a little about one particular officer who routinely harasses and tickets them for unlawful camping, even though it’s on their friends private property, yet he never tickets or harasses another homeless lady who is frequently drunk and causing problems and is seen coming out of the back of this officer’s patty wagon -
    One of the homeless said he had done one really nice thing for their friend so that was nice to hear. But knowing he was harassing people that had no where to go and may be getting sexual favors from a homeless woman gave me the creeps. He was the officer at the event that was dark haired with a mustache and kinda large. Of course it’s all hearsay, but still made me think ..

    I captured that officer on video. He was standing out on the sidewalk, near the newsvan and talking with Captain Hughes towards around the start of the concert.

  130. #130 by Steve Brow on September 27, 2011

    ACU, the comment numbers shift here as people insert direct replies to comments. You have to refer to a comment by who posted it. I learned the hard way.

  131. #131 by Sapporo on September 27, 2011

    Is it strange that Ackerman is defending the Anti-recall efforts and the Three Councilman being recalled just voted for his Multi-Million Dollar Low income housing project? Just seems strange to me.

  132. #132 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    Cpl. John DeCaprio?

  133. #133 by Steve Brow on September 27, 2011

    Jt, nobody knows for a fact what the FBI is investigating. That is their design. They do what they do and don’t answer to anybody except the US Attorney. You can guess where they are going if anyone they interview will talk about it afterward.

    You can also get a good guess from watching what they do for a couple of decades. Otherwise, you will know when the indictments come out, and if indictments don’t come out, you will seldom know why.

    If you know something you think that they need to know, give them a call. They are very friendly.

  134. #134 by 9c1copcar on September 27, 2011

    CG,

    I read your blog when you stated that there are no good officers on FPD. I do not think all of them are like the 6. I have hope that those of them who follow the law, are appalled at what is happening around them. Like I said earlier, they are wearing the stain from the actions of a few.

  135. #135 by Erin on September 27, 2011

    10-4-2011

  136. #136 by Erin on September 27, 2011

    BINGO!

  137. #137 by Steve Brow on September 27, 2011

    I think that is McKinley

  138. #138 by merijoe#1 on September 27, 2011

    yeah, I saw you on the web cam they set up, I was the one cheerin you on, did you hear me thru the air waves?

  139. #139 by Eth PDF Nisierd on September 27, 2011

    Just a few things you should know about Decaprio.

    He is known as a “Homeless Liaison”, his badge number is 911 (tee hee hee!) AND he is known to be unusually …considerate to homeless females in Fullerton.

    Before coming a Corporal he spent a long stint working vice.

    AND he loves calling the media everytime he does a good deed.

  140. #140 by merijoe#1 on September 27, 2011

    ok, i have to go vomit now and then shower- I saw that ugly costumed hippo porno mustache -he had some italian last name, starts with a g-I snapped his picture with skinny bald headed hughes-its in my camera -another Reno 911 extra

  141. #141 by Steve Brow on September 27, 2011

    Often that happens when the underling has something on the overling. Just speculation, however.

  142. #142 by Fullerton on September 27, 2011

    Ronald Reagan made a very astute observation in his 1981 inaugural address when he said “In this present crisis government is not the solution to our problems; government is the problem.”

    Fullerton politicans, officials, cops, union, and Orange County District Attorney are our biggest problem all these years with corruption, morally bankrupt. and crooks with license.

  143. #143 by merijoe#1 on September 27, 2011

  144. #144 by Jt on September 27, 2011

    Whoops. Forgot a step. The DA declines to press charges. Repeat ad nausuem.

  145. #145 by Citizen M on September 27, 2011

    Can someone come up with a form letter that we can pass out to “tourist” to let them know of the potential hazards of being in Fullerton. And they are enetering at their own risk…kind of like, when you go into a parking lot they are not responsible for any loss, damages- we cant afford any more litigation. Please- I swear I will pass it out and seriously scare the crap outta alot of drunken idiots on saturday…who is with me?

  146. #146 by Why? on September 27, 2011

    I can’t stand seeing this stuff on you tube.

    I don’t want to believe this is happening.

    I don’t want to think these are our civil servants.

    Please tell me this isn’t happening here, around us now,

    It seems dangerously childish

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWzf_mymUUA&feature=related

  147. #147 by The Fullerton Savage on September 27, 2011

    Yes, Ronald Reagan the anarchist.

  148. #148 by We Are All One on September 27, 2011

    Citizen M :
    Can someone come up with a form letter that we can pass out to “tourist” to let them know of the potential hazards of being in Fullerton. And they are enetering at their own risk…kind of like, when you go into a parking lot they are not responsible for any loss, damages- we cant afford any more litigation. Please- I swear I will pass it out and seriously scare the crap outta alot of drunken idiots on saturday…who is with me?

    Yeah, all the city welcoming signs should read:

    “Welcome to Fullerton, home of killer cops and corruption. Have your recording devices handy”

  149. #149 by The Fullerton Savage on September 27, 2011

    How about “Watch out for potholes in the streets and vomit on the sidewalk, and whatever you do don’t call the cops.” Drunken idiots are drunken idiots and they won’t listen to anything you try to say to them.

  150. #150 by merijoe#1 on September 27, 2011

    we need one of those signs they have near the border of mexico in arizona for americans -”warning, travel not recommended”

  151. #151 by Anonymous on September 27, 2011

    Welcome to Fullerjuana.

  152. #152 by Erin on September 27, 2011

  153. #154 by fullerton lover on September 27, 2011

    a couple of eyewitnesses that have were afraid to come forward due to implied threats.

  154. #155 by Erin on September 27, 2011

    Here ya go Citizen M..
    Disclaimer: By entering this city (Fullerton) you acknowledge and agree that you enter at your own risk and that none of the citizens of Fullerton are liable for any direct, incidental, consequential, indirect, or punitive damages, or any other losses, costs, or expenses or any kind (including legal fees, expert fees, or other disbursements) which may arise, directly or indirectly, by the access to, use of, or browsing of this city or through any materials, data, text, images, video, bar or audio from this city, including but not limited to anything caused by any Law Enforcement Officer, Former Law Enforcement Officer, human action or inaction.

  155. #156 by Curious on September 27, 2011

    too many cops with nothing to do but harass/arrest. The more, the merrier. See, the more arrest the more money into Mcpension’s $218,000/yr. retirement fund.

    And to think, all this extra policing to “protect” what, the puke zone. Mayor HeeHaw did create a monster. Thanks Dick, NOT!

    And what are we going to do about our streets, our water & sewer lines, sidewalks, street lights/trees, oh my!

    With all the upcoming lawsuits Fullerton is headed for a Niagara gulp gulp…

  156. #157 by merijoe#1 on September 27, 2011

    Sign this -goal for signatures is 10,000 there are 2412 now -its a Kelly Thomas bill http://www.petition2congress.com/4898/kelly-thomas-law/?m=2099044

  157. #158 by We Are All One on September 27, 2011

    Erin :
    This might cover it. LoL
    http://www.madhauscreative.com/Disclaimer.html

    Funny ;)

  158. #159 by Larry T on September 27, 2011

    I think you can say the same thing for idiots in general. But drunken idiots should be confined in a locked (from the outside ;-) ) room.

  159. #160 by merijoe#1 on September 27, 2011

    I think there should be speakers in front of the FPD playing circus music in the background

  160. #161 by We Are All One on September 27, 2011

    merijoe#1 :
    I think there should be speakers in front of the FPD playing circus music in the background

    Lol

  161. #162 by fullerton lover on September 27, 2011

    18 secounds into this video is the same officer who was at the concert with Captain Dan Hughes
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEIbMZxqJw8

  162. #163 by Erin on September 27, 2011

    With a huge red nose too..

  163. #164 by ThinBlueNonsense on September 27, 2011

    When was his birthday?

  164. #165 by Vernon Dozier on September 27, 2011

    Barry, could you write an analysis on the City’s bleak financial picture if the plaintiffs’ prevail in every case?

    How close would Fullerton be toward declaring bankruptcy?

  165. #166 by fullerton lover on September 27, 2011

    ..and we could project this image onto the background of the council chambers and play this music as each council member is announced as they enter the council chabers…”Ladies and Gentleman, Boys and Girls of all ages”…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjedLeVGcfE

  166. #167 by Vernon Dozier on September 27, 2011

    You’re wrong to be criticizing DeCaprio. He’s not any part of the problem.

  167. #168 by ThinBlueNonsense on September 27, 2011

    Haha I read that part too. Kinda weird for a Judge to write that.

  168. #169 by affordable taxi on September 27, 2011

    Welcome to Fullerton where you can get beat up and then become a hero.

  169. #170 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 27, 2011

    Indeed a scathing indictment, but that’s not so unusual in a denial for civil summary judgment. The legal standard is as low as it gets and a judge is free to expound opinion at length and in great detail, as Judge Guilford has done here. It will be interesting to see how this plays out at trial. I wish the victims well.

    Also of note, for all of you that have been offering up your opinion that Ron Thomas will get millions in punitive damages, and not just a million or two in actual damages as I’ve been saying all along, check out section 1.3, Despite Judge Guilford’s ‘shock’ at the ‘disturbing allegations’ in this lawsuit, he granted that part of the motion for a Summary Judgment which denies the plaintiff’s request for punitive damages. See below.

    My larger point is that Ron Thomas is obviously not in it for the money, if he was he would have taken the nearly $1 million that was already on the table as a potential settlement offer. People here scoffed in outrage when one of the idiots on the Fullerton City Council pointed out that the dollar value in a civil suit for damages in the death of Kelly Thomas would not be that high, but he was right. Very little earning power, no kids or wife to support, etc. Without punitive damages Ron will be lucky to get $2 million and unfortunately the final figure will likely be significantly less. I’m sure Mr. Mardirossian has prepared him for this reality.
    .
    .
    .
    1.3 Punitive Damages
    Defendant argues that public entities can not be held liable for exemplar or punitive
    damages. See Kentucky v. Graham, 473 U.S. 159, 167 (1985); Bell v. Clackamas County, 341 F.3d 858, 868 n.4 (9th Cir. 2003); Cal. Gov. Code § 818. Plaintiffs do not oppose this argument. The Court agrees with Defendant. The Court GRANTS Defendant’s Motion for Summary Judgment as to the issue of punitive damages.

  170. #171 by TheFullertonWatcher on September 27, 2011

    Don’t be mistaken this is a national problem brought on by police unions.

  171. #172 by We Are All One on September 27, 2011

    affordable taxi :
    Welcome to Fullerton where you can get beat up and then become a hero.

    wtf?

  172. #173 by The Fullerton Savage on September 27, 2011

    Just like it is strange that cats purr when you pet them.

  173. #174 by TheFullertonWatcher on September 28, 2011

    I know someone who is thinking about running…

  174. #175 by Ivn on September 28, 2011

    I’m gonna stay out of fullerton just in case there are some but pirate cops.

    not to many guys would come forward if they got raped by a cop.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiX7GTelTPM

  175. #176 by Reality Is on September 28, 2011

    It’s back on again 91. Tell the kids they can ride again starting yesterday. :)

  176. #177 by Ivn on September 28, 2011

    can someone explain this and give some insight, what does it mean to the girls who went through this?

    is the judge a good guy or what?

    8
    Punitive Damages
    9
    10 Defendant argues that public entities can not be held liable for exemplar or punitive
    11 damages. See Kentucky v. Graham, 473 U.S. 159, 167 (1985); Bell v. Clackamas County, 341
    12 F.3d 858, 868 n.4 (9th Cir. 2003); Cal. Gov. Code § 818. Plaintiffs do not oppose this argument.
    13 The Court agrees with Defendant.
    The Court GRANTS Defendant’s Motion for Summary Judgment as to the issue of
    14
    15
    punitive damages.

  177. #178 by Why? on September 28, 2011

    For all you homeless haters out there!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-oGlBVjS1s&feature=related

    for the men that filmed this, I ‘m proud of you. Hope to meat you on the high road

    “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for his Maker, but he who is kind to the needy honors him.”

  178. #179 by Why? on September 28, 2011

    We have more piling in from the Iraq and Afgan wars looking for jobs.

    And they are young and ambitous.

    Its time to adopt policies that only allow mature , responsible, and educated adults over forty that have lived at least 15 years of their life among their fellow citizens before they hide behind their jobs.

    Reorganize the force into a more civilised group.

    Cities need a break from these hungry impatient kids with power.

  179. #180 by ANONCITIZEN on September 28, 2011

    Fullerton Citizen – you have bad information there. Chief Sellers did not teach any classes at the academy, or anywhere else.

  180. #181 by Why? on September 28, 2011

  181. #182 by Why? on September 28, 2011

    Dear lawmakers,
    Please help us!

  182. #183 by Why? on September 28, 2011

    Didn’t someone say that disbanning the deptment would save the city $37 million a year?

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1818862/posts

    Says crime rate plummets.

  183. #184 by Paul on September 28, 2011

    Fullerton residents and voters please comment on the judges summary of sexual harassment and perversion by Fullerton PD as well as the other major allegations all festering. Fullerton is a self insured city which means all these claims will come out of your pocket via higher fees and taxes.
    Still going to sit on the fence, or are you going to clean up your town? Personally as of about 2 months ago, I stopped shopping and drinking and eating in your formerly nice town.

  184. #185 by van get it da artiste on September 28, 2011

    I agree

  185. #186 by Mike @ Here on September 28, 2011

    Fullerton must have relatives in Detroit. This cop punches a dudes lights and say he threw the 1st punch. Watch the video and see who the liars really are.
    http://www.freep.com/article/20110927/NEWS01/109270365/Video-City-slapped-lawsuit-over-punches-MGM-Grand-Detroit-casino

  186. #187 by dmk on September 28, 2011

    FPD needs to be disbanded. Start over. New Chief, new rules, new training, new cops.

  187. #188 by fullerton lover on September 28, 2011

    Supreme Court justices, court of appeals judges, and district court judges are nominated by the President and confirmed by the United States Senate, as stated in the Constitution.
    The names of potential nominees are often recommended by senators or sometimes by members of the House who are of the President’s political party. The Senate Judiciary Committee typically conducts confirmation hearings for each nominee.
    Article III of the Constitution states that these judicial officers are appointed for a life term. The federal Judiciary, the Judicial Conference of the United States, and the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts play no role in the nomination and confirmation process.

    So I honestly don’t believe 007, that a federal judge who was nominated by President George Bush, and approved by the U.S. Senate 93-0, and is appointed for a life term, is really seeking to make headlines at this point in his career.

  188. #189 by Fred Alcazar on September 28, 2011

    Dream on, Coffman.

  189. #190 by lenny on September 28, 2011

    dmk :
    FPD needs to be disbanded. Start over. New Chief, new rules, new training, new cops.

    You are dreaming. These bums aren’t giving up the power and the money. These creeps have too many deals in the streets. Protection service (slime Bar) which started all this. The police bosses will deal with those bums at the bar for creating the Kelly Thomas movement.

  190. #191 by lenny on September 28, 2011

    Eth PDF Nisierd :
    Just a few things you should know about Decaprio.
    He is known as a “Homeless Liaison”, his badge number is 911 (tee hee hee!) AND he is known to be unusually …considerate to homeless females in Fullerton.
    Before coming a Corporal he spent a long stint working vice.
    AND he loves calling the media everytime he does a good deed.

    Is he related to the film star.

  191. #192 by Fred Alcazar on September 28, 2011

    You never answered the question: why did your hero Rackauckas take a pass at getting the pervert Rincon off the streets.

    Can you explain (in less than five paragraphs)?

  192. #193 by lenny on September 28, 2011

    Fred Alcazar :
    You never answered the question: why did your hero Rackauckas take a pass at getting the pervert Rincon off the streets.
    Can you explain (in less than five paragraphs)?

    The DAs in hot water with his masters. The DA was ordered to drop the case and all further FPD complaints.

  193. #194 by fullerton lover on September 28, 2011

    Delicious irony or a future Jeopardy question?????
    Leo DiCaprio was on the S.S. Titanic and John DiCaprio was on the Fullerton P.D., so I guess you surmise that they both were passengers on sinking ships.

  194. #195 by alcu on September 28, 2011

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/28/us/aclu-suit-details-wide-abuse-in-los-angeles-jail-system.html

    This Sheriff is needed in Fullerton to help the FPD clean up this bullshit.

  195. #196 by Jane H on September 28, 2011

    Plaintiffs allege that the City is liable under § 1983. There is no vicarious liability under
    § 1983. Monell v. New York Dep’t. of Social Serv., 436 U.S. 658, 694 (1978). But the City may
    still be liable under § 1983 if

    (1) a City employee violated Plaintiffs’ rights; (2) the City has customs, policies, or practices that amount to deliberate indifference to Plaintiffs’ constitutional
    rights, and…

    —->(3) the customs, policies, or practices were the moving force behind the employee’s
    violations of Plaintiffs’ rights. Gibson v. County of Washoe, <—

    290 F.3d 1175, 1193-94 (9th Cir.
    2002). For the purposes of this Motion, the Court assumes–and the parties do not here
    dispute–that there is a triable issue of fact about whether Rincon violated Plaintiffs’ civil rights.

    I took this right out of the complaint. As I have thought and said from the very beginning: They (the top) encouraged this despicable behavior!!!!!!

  196. #197 by dmk on September 28, 2011

    Is DeCaprio a goodcop/badcop? Does he befriend the homeless so he can know more about them, then persecute them when he can? And what are you hinting at when you say he’s considerate to homeless females? I’d like to know more about DeCaprio — the homeless liaison.

  197. #198 by Anti-Recall Campaign on September 28, 2011

    Pat McKinley was just trying to toughen up Fullerton’s women through real world experience. She-Bear!

  198. #199 by Hick Jones on September 28, 2011

    Why are the women-folk alles’ gettin’ their panties in a knit on accounta’ a little fun? Don’t they know our fine po-lice officers need ta’ blow off a little steam now an’ then? or wheneveh’ they see a hot number walkin’ down the sidewalk?

  199. #200 by Friendly Neighbor on September 28, 2011

    We Are All One :

    Erin :STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING!

    I was at the outdoor market in Brea today and overheard three cops saying exactly that and laughing. I wasn’t sure who they were mocking. It was unsettling.

    …and their battle cry when they begin their shift is “Go home or go to jail”. Sickening.

  200. #201 by Anonymous on September 28, 2011

    boys in blue doing what they do. excessive force.

  201. #202 by The Fullerton Harpoon on September 28, 2011

    If’n we ain’t dun give the’ sidewalk away to a campainy contribooter.

  202. #203 by Rincon on September 28, 2011

    She-Bare sounds better.

  203. #204 by Johnny Donut on September 28, 2011

    How much longer can the media ignore this one? Start the timer…

  204. #205 by Johnny Donut on September 28, 2011

    News flash… waiting for the FBI to fix things is very risky. They are unlikely to do anything.

    Fullerton, this is your government. Fix it yourself.

  205. #206 by Anonymous on September 28, 2011

    alcu :
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/28/us/aclu-suit-details-wide-abuse-in-los-angeles-jail-system.html
    This Sheriff is needed in Fullerton to help the FPD clean up this bullshit.

    Sounds like the USA needs a “The Cleaner” show.. but the man targets dirty cops and their handlers

  206. #207 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    merijoe#1 :ok, i have to go vomit now and then shower- I saw that ugly costumed hippo porno mustache -he had some italian last name, starts with a g-I snapped his picture with skinny bald headed hughes-its in my camera -another Reno 911 extra

    “and then shower” (?) :(

    TMI!!!!!! Not a pretty picture

  207. #208 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    jane, monell a decision that was made just for the likes of fullerton pd.

  208. #209 by Ex Fullerton Res on September 28, 2011

    HAHAHAHAHA!

  209. #210 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    i was a victim of this cop crap back in the early 80′s. i was on my way to do some grocery shopping on a hot monsoony summer day, i was in a hurry because humidity and heat do not agree with me.

    i was at the time, a long haired blond driving a camaro z28. i was two car lenghts behind a deputy driving down a major street, he was driving 25 mph in a posted 35 mph area. everyone decided to go around him, and i decided to do likewise. he manuvers around me and is now in back of me. drive through the intersection and the light bar comes on, i pull over and this is where the bullshit commences. knowing something about traffic investigation and how traffic stops are supposed to be done, this deputy started out on the wrong foot by telling me he was going to write me a warning in his little spiral notebook.

    knowing there was no such thing, i asked him why he pulled me over. he stated he thought i was in a hurry and going too fast, 35 in a 35 mph zone. he goes back to his radio car, and gets a copy of his vehicle code where he commences to lecture me on speed laws. i dared to question him doing his preaching in front of the public, on a busy street. he then said, ” just for that, i am going to write you a ticket”. this was after he had obtained all of my information during the “warning” stage of this traffic stop. so, it escalated from a bullshit speed stop, to ticketing me for having questioned his practices and procedures.

    the only reason he had stopped me. was to get my information so he could ask me out. it had nothing to do with speeding.
    he wrote me the citation and i immediately went to lakewood sheriff’s and spoke to the watch sergeant. i told him what this jackass had done, and he said they would talk to him later.
    the sergeant would call me after it was done.
    apparently, they knew this guys reputation for being a womanizer on duty, for when the sergeant called, he said that they would go along with whatever i decided to do with the citation. i told him i intended to post bail and fight it. i did just that, and won, they deputy was told to stay the hell away from court or be embarassed in front of the court.

  210. #211 by Anonymous on September 28, 2011

    Atleast Gardena PD is somewhat honest :)

    “I warned Alexander verbally that was I going to ‘sock him in the face’ if he didn’t put his hands behind his back. Alexander made no attempt to comply. I delivered two short jab punches with my left first to the right side of Alexander’s face,” an officer wrote on the initial arrest report.

    Read the rest of the story. Its quite interesting.

    http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/09/28/man-accused-of-resisting-arrest-accuses-gardena-police-of-brutality/

  211. #212 by Fullerton Rudy on September 28, 2011

    Hey Ponsi, when are you going to start writing about this little series of indiscretions by FPD & McKinley?

    What’s that you say? Never? Jim Radcliffe won’t let you? Too mean?

  212. #213 by Cincinelli on September 28, 2011

    i smash bitch face smash good smash all them all!

  213. #214 by 9c1copcar on September 28, 2011

    Now, you see why I love FEDUP….she is a fighter..and she said she would punch me if I did not agree.

  214. #215 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    Wow!!!!!

    I’m sure this little story got better over the years! LOL

    Lady, no need to flatter yourself..

    Your encounter with this aweful deputy might have been somewhat believable until the last paragraph. LOL, Judges don’t tell officers to “stay the hell away from court”. Just doesn’t happen lady.

    I have run in to motorists like you.. Very amusing!!! You make our job a lot of fun.

  215. #216 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    fedupwithmorons :i was a victim of this cop crap back in the early 80′s. i was on my way to do some grocery shopping on a hot monsoony summer day, i was in a hurry because humidity and heat do not agree with me.
    i was at the time, a long haired blond driving a camaro z28. i was two car lenghts behind a deputy driving down a major street, he was driving 25 mph in a posted 35 mph area. everyone decided to go around him, and i decided to do likewise. he manuvers around me and is now in back of me. drive through the intersection and the light bar comes on, i pull over and this is where the bullshit commences. knowing something about traffic investigation and how traffic stops are supposed to be done, this deputy started out on the wrong foot by telling me he was going to write me a warning in his little spiral notebook.
    knowing there was no such thing, i asked him why he pulled me over. he stated he thought i was in a hurry and going too fast, 35 in a 35 mph zone. he goes back to his radio car, and gets a copy of his vehicle code where he commences to lecture me on speed laws. i dared to question him doing his preaching in front of the public, on a busy street. he then said, ” just for that, i am going to write you a ticket”. this was after he had obtained all of my information during the “warning” stage of this traffic stop. so, it escalated from a bullshit speed stop, to ticketing me for having questioned his practices and procedures.
    the only reason he had stopped me. was to get my information so he could ask me out. it had nothing to do with speeding.he wrote me the citation and i immediately went to lakewood sheriff’s and spoke to the watch sergeant. i told him what this jackass had done, and he said they would talk to him later.the sergeant would call me after it was done.apparently, they knew this guys reputation for being a womanizer on duty, for when the sergeant called, he said that they would go along with whatever i decided to do with the citation. i told him i intended to post bail and fight it. i did just that, and won, they deputy was told to stay the hell away from court or be embarassed in front of the court.

    @9c1copcar

    THIS WASN’T YOU WAS IT???

  216. #217 by 9c1copcar on September 28, 2011

    As a citizen of these United States, I, at this time, reserve the right to exercise my 5Th Amendment Rights.

  217. #218 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    no fucktarded allen, the story never gets any better, it’s as bad now as it was then…..you’re amusing as well with all of your spelling errors and such. moron!

  218. #219 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    no fuckwitted allen, i said his sergeant told him to stay away from court, not the judge you halfbaked jackass. there was another lady in court that morning with a ticket written by him, for the same egregious thing. we both won our cases! i was ready to tell the judge what he had done.

  219. #220 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    good idea over there 9c1, see mah knuckle? it’s been sharpened just for you!

  220. #221 by 9c1copcar on September 28, 2011

    ………….*TREMBLING*…………..

  221. #222 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    9C1 YOU SHOULD BE QUAKING AND TREMBLING AND HAVING POOPY DIAPERS LIKE THE FULLERTON SIX ARE. LOL!!

  222. #223 by 9c1copcar on September 28, 2011

    Oh, you sweet talker you!!

  223. #224 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    BETTER HEAD OFF TO COSTCO AND STOCK UP ON DEPENDS AND BABY WIPES!

  224. #225 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    ALLEN YOU MOTOR COPS LOVE MOTORISTS LIKE ME, AND I LOVE COPS LIKE YOU WHEN YOU’RE STANDING TALL ANSWERING TO A COMPLAINT, I WON’T LET GO OF! SO, NAH! AND SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE!

  225. #226 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    ALLEN BATES, I SEE WHY YOU’RE A MOTOR COP. THE PD WON’T LET YOU INVESTIGATE REAL CRIMES BECAUSE YOU ARE DYSLEXIC, CAN’T SPELL AND YOUR GRAMMAR SUCKS, YOU CAN’T BE TRUSTED TO WRITE A REPORT A DA COULD UNDERSTAND, IT WOULD BE IN JIBBERISH.

    OH, ALLEN BATES, WHILE WE’RE AT IT, HOW MANY POLICE COMPLAINTS HAVE YOU REC’D FOR FAILURE CALLS FOR SERVICE WHEN YOU WENT LIMP ON YOUR BOYFRIEND? DID YOU ASK FOR BACKUP?

    AND….HOW MANY WOMAN COMPLAINED ABOUT YOU WHEN YOU COULDN’T PERFORM YOUR DUTIES AS PRESCRIBED BY DEPARTMENT POLICY? HUH? HOW MANY?

    HOW MANY TIMES, WERE YOU GOING CODE 3 ON THE TOP OF YOUR RADIO CAR WITH A HOT CHICK, AND YOUR ONE EYED MINI BATON FAILED TO DO IT’S JOB?

    HOW MANY TIMES WERE YOU CALLED FOR SERVICE AT THE FPD BATHHOUSE, AND YOU WERE REALLY CODE 6 THERE ALL OF YOUR SHIFT WITH YOUR 2 INCH?

  226. #227 by AntiCorruptionUnit on September 28, 2011

    OH so many here are complaining about issues that haven’t even happened yet regarding this investigation.
    As Steve Brow said, the FBI does not answer to the local government. Their investigation will take some time, it WILL NOT be done tomorrow because everyone wants it done yesterday.

    The interview of the witnesses will not be a priority for the Feds, at least at this very moment. I bet a few of the witnesses will never be interviewed again. They may accept their original statements and ask additional questions if they have any.
    I am sure the Feds have already sat down with the DA and compared notes or gathered evidence he has. The video tapes are more compelling than a witness is. THAT’s why everyone uses them.

    I am sure by now many police employees have been interviewed. I am sure some have refused to talk. Those who have, if they get caught in a lie, they will be prosecuted under federal law for such. Remember Martha Stewart?

    As too the FPD gathering intellegence on some, when it goes beyond sitting across the street watching you or a group of people then complain, they do it because THEY CAN. Just like you watch them when they are out in public. RELAX!!!!! It goes both ways.

    FPD still has a responsibility to maintain order, and keep an eye on things.

    If your paranoid as some seem to be, get yourself and tape recorder or video camera. The cops have them, SO can you. If FPD wants to be stupid with the public when the world is watching, that’s just more EVIDENCE against them when all is said and done.

    Just DON’T be foolish and provoke them thinking you know the law better than they do, when in reality somes limited knowledge is just enough to get them into trouble. It’s rather obvious many here have limited knowledge of the more important details of how the game is played. PLEASE be careful.

    As to the Office of Independant Review, someone says they won’t bite the hand that feeds them, let’s say that when it’s clear that has happened.

    This agency or organization was asked to do this under a very special set of circumstances(Kelly Thomas). They do not travel the country and do things like this to my knowledge.

    And they have bit the hand that feeds them more than once. Let’s see if that is in FACT the case here.

    It’s obvious thing are not going quickly enough for some, WELCOME to the real world of complex investigations when multiple agencies are involved.

    Some of you don’t realize this case has moved quicker than anyone could have dreamed of.

    EXPECT more delay’s by the defense attorney’s. If this case goes to trial within the next year, IT will be a miracle.

    Stay focused people.

  227. #228 by fullerton lover on September 28, 2011

    …when the Glock strikes 12 !

  228. #229 by The Don Blankhead on September 28, 2011

    Wha…?

  229. #230 by I on September 28, 2011

    You are consistently excellent in your take-downs of asshole cop-apologists, morons, trolls and idiots.

    Thank you for making me chuckle out loud daily.

    And for those of you who take offense to some of the language used on this forum, I have 4 words for you. Grow the fuck up. If you want the Disney Channel blog, kindly take your priggish arses there…

  230. #231 by IheartFEDUP on September 28, 2011

    Haha. Not sure why my username just said ‘I’… my username is IheartFEDUP

  231. #232 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    LOL… 9c1 – you are alright my friend – even though we disagree ;)

  232. #233 by fullerton lover on September 28, 2011

    Now that post was a real gut buster! Thanks for putting a smile back on my face.

  233. #234 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    Well…… I’ve never bean mutch of a spelor. butt I have had to deel with potty mouths like yours.

  234. #235 by Anonymous on September 28, 2011

    Police keep making a bad name for themselves. And than bone heads will post on here and say we simply hate all police. The many bad applies have tainted the orchard.

  235. #236 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    LOOKS LIKE I GOT FEDUPWITHMORONS A LITTLE FLUSTERED.

    WATCH OUT FOR THAT RED LIGHT IN YOUR REAR VIEW MIRROR – THE COMPLAINT WILL CERTAINLY BE A FUN CHALLENGE.. SEE YOU AT COSTCO!!!!

  236. #237 by We Are All One on September 28, 2011

    Come September

    “What the Free Market undermines is not national sovereignty, but democracy. As the disparity between the rich and poor grows, the hidden fist has its work cut out for it. Multinational corporations on the prowl for “sweetheart deals” that yield enormous profits cannot push through those deals and administer those projects in developing countries without the active connivance of State machinery – the police, the courts, sometimes even the army. Today Corporate Globalization needs an international confederation of loyal, corrupt, preferably authoritarian governments in poorer countries to push through unpopular reforms and quell the mutinies. It needs a press that pretends to be free. It needs courts that pretend to dispense justice. It needs nuclear bombs, standing armies, sterner immigration laws, and watchful coastal patrols to make sure that it’s only money, goods, patents, and services that are being globalized – not the free movement of people, not a respect for human rights, not international treaties on racial discrimination or chemical and nuclear weapons, or greenhouse gas emissions, climate change, or god forbid, justice. It’s as though even a gesture towards international accountability would wreck the whole enterprise.” – ARUNDHATI ROY

    Occupy Wall Street

  237. #238 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    OH BABY!!!!!!! LAY IT ON THICK – ITS MAKING ME CRAZY!!!!!!!! ;D

  238. #239 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    Not while you’re on this site – you’re more fun that merijoe!!!!!!

  239. #240 by Friendly Neighbor on September 28, 2011

  240. #241 by Anonymous on September 28, 2011

    I agree with Allen, some police officers are fucking really stupid and useless.

  241. #242 by truthseeker on September 28, 2011

    Ladies and gentleman we need to keep the protests going full throttle. Keep the discussion going with your children and neighbors. The rat holes are filling with smoke and the light of day will blind the guilty as they emerge. The media needs to stay on this thing. Tony keep the servers cool. We the good law-abiding people of Fullerton and all neighboring cities need to stay vigilant, peaceful, and respectful. We have direct access to those who seek to crush the truth and those who hope to expose it with this Blog AND OUR PROTESTS. Please TO ALL INVOLVED-DO THE RIGHT THING. NOTHING COULD BE MORE AMERICAN.

  242. #243 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    fedupwithmorons :no fuckwitted allen, i said his sergeant told him to stay away from court, not the judge you halfbaked jackass. there was another lady in court that morning with a ticket written by him, for the same egregious thing. we both won our cases! i was ready to tell the judge what he had done.

    LOL….. You make my job so fun.. you would be an excellent prop for my trainee.. Name the time and place.. He needs to deal with someone like you..

    BTW.. did your parents ever wash your mouth out with soap??????

  243. #244 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    Anonymous :I agree with Allen, some police officers are fucking really stupid and useless.

    You said it!!!!

    Fullerton’s highering.. They could use someone like you

  244. #245 by Justice for ALL on September 28, 2011

    The independent review that was done in the Mitrice Richardson case, was also done by Michael Gennaco; IMO, it wasn’t worth the paper it was written on. Therefore, I don’t have very high expectations that Gennaco will do any better of an “independent review” in the Kelly Thomas case.

    http://www.lamag.com/features/story.aspx?ID=1515070

  245. #246 by Justice for ALL on September 28, 2011

    I certainly hope they HIRE someone with a HIGHER IQ than Allen!!

  246. #247 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    According to all you police supporters on this site, minimum IQ would be 50?

  247. #249 by Hookt on Fonix on September 28, 2011

    I dun reed or rite to gud.

  248. #250 by Jane H on September 28, 2011

    Check out that video, “Occupy Wall Street”. Wow!

  249. #251 by Jane H on September 28, 2011

    How would you know? Do you have a degree in Educational Psychology?

    Ignore…

  250. #252 by merijoe on September 28, 2011

    Saw this comment today on http://www.petition2congress.com/4898/kelly-thomas-law/?m=2099044

    ELIZABETH P. from San Jacinto, CA writes:
    “I, too, was assaulted by a Fullerton officer when I WAS 17, due to one’s malignment of temper and impatience. I would not wish that onto anyone; it causes a disruption in your trust for authority, and creates fear of it happening again.”

  251. #253 by Peaches on September 28, 2011

    “Public Comments” are included on the agenda before recessing to closed session; meeting starts at 10 a.m. per agenda. May have to forego Judge Mathis to see if the meeting (with the exception of the closed session) is broadcast…

  252. #254 by 9c1copcar on September 28, 2011

    Hooked on Phonetics….

  253. #255 by Anonymous on September 28, 2011

    You’re on the right track Allen, that’s much better than the FPD current standard, maximum of 50.

  254. #256 by Reality Is on September 28, 2011

    Look like everyone took funny pills today :)

  255. #257 by Reality Is on September 28, 2011

    GARDENA (CBS) — A 24-year-old man facing felony charges for allegedly resisting arrest is accusing Gardena police officers of assaulting him.

    Perry Alexander, who is due in court Wednesday, claims he was brutalized by police.

    Police approached Alexander when he was double-parked and chatting on his cell phone in front of his girlfriend’s apartment at 3 a.m. on March 16. He didn’t have his driver’s license on him, so officers asked him to pull over and exit his vehicle.

    Some of the incident was caught on tape by the apartment complex’s security cameras.

    “He punched me two times in my face, very, very hard,” Perry told CBS2’s Serene Branson. “And then from there, he placed my hands behind my back and threw me on his police car.”

    “To this day, I still don’t know why they did what they did,” he added. “I mean, I cooperated and did everything they asked me to do.”

    Alexander says he and an officer fell to the ground after he was punched in the face. He and his girlfriend, Derenique Burt, claim that the assault didn’t stop there.

    “After the handcuffs were placed on him, the officers continued to hit him after that,” Burt said.

    Photos taken when Alexander was hospitalized after the incident show bruising on his face, as well as an eye injury.

    “I really believe that instead of charging Perry Alexander, they should be charging the officers,” defense attorney Alison Triessl told CBS2.

    The police department says Alexander was both combative and non-compliant and doesn’t deny that force was used during his arrest.

    “I warned Alexander verbally that was I going to ‘sock him in the face’ if he didn’t put his hands behind his back. Alexander made no attempt to comply. I delivered two short jab punches with my left first to the right side of Alexander’s face,” an officer wrote on the initial arrest report.

    The department also points to the district attorney’s filing of two felony counts against Alexander for resisting arrest.

    “We believe that our officers acted appropriately given the actions of Mr. Alexander and we expect that the criminal case will result in Mr. Alexander being held responsible for his actions,” Chief of Police Edward Medrano said.

    If the city rejects the defense’s claim, a civil lawsuit may be filed.

  256. #258 by Michael G on September 28, 2011

    September 28, 2011

    Dear President Obama:
    Dear Representative Miller:
    Dear Senator Boxer:
    Dear Senator Feinstein:

    I would like to petition Congress to pass a law that creates sentencing enhancements for officers convicted of crimes against the public while under the color of authority. Said enhancements should double the sentence that an ordinary citizen would receive for the same crime.

    As well, I would like to petition Congress to pass a law that allows other police officers to become responsible and obligated legally to intervene and restrain rogue police officers if they witness an assault by a fellow officer during the commission of an arrest. As in the Fullerton case and numerous other cases, other officers witnessing excessive force by law enforcement on the scene aren’t compelled/accountable enough to act and prevent deaths such as the case involving Thomas. If another police officer on the scene witnesses excessive force being used, by another law enforcement officer or Officers, they should be obligated to assist the victim of such excessive force without penalty or reprimand because no ordinary citizen can safely intervene and stop it without being subjected to further assault and arrest. If the officers on the scene don’t assist the victim & don’t participate, they should still all be charged the same as the main aggressor because they did nothing to stop it. Aggressive force by Police Organizations across the country, in my opinion, can be prevented by the very officers that are sworn to protect and serve all citizens regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation. From the victimization of Rodney King to the tragic death of Kelly Thomas, there has to be a law created that can curtail such violence and senseless behavior by law enforcement. And it is with great sincerity & urgency that we address this issue in memory of all victims that have been intentionally assaulted or died at the hands of rogue officers when, had the officer(s) been compelled to stop or restrained, this could’ve been prevented.

    Sincerely,

  257. #259 by Sunshine on September 28, 2011

    When I went to FCPA most of the instructors were on some type of disability from their PD’s. One instructor hit his hand on the hood of his vehicles because his neighbor parked in his parking space. His shot off his weapon in the air towards her and the local PD where he lived came out and that whole sceen was covered up. The one officer who told the truth about him shooting off his weapon has never been promoted and this officer was excellent! Then he went out on worker’s comp saying he hurt his hand at work. His was moonlighting at FCPA was was getting paid from everyone with our tax payer’s dollars. At the previous Academy that he taught at he ended up marrying of the recruits.

  258. #260 by Sunshine on September 28, 2011

    When I went to FCPA most of the instructors were on some type of disability from their PD’s. One instructor hit his hand on the hood of his vehicles because his neighbor parked in his parking space. His shot off his weapon in the air towards her and the local PD where he lived came out and that whole sceen was covered up. The one officer who told the truth about him shooting off his weapon has never been promoted and this officer was excellent! Then he went out on worker’s comp saying he hurt his hand at work. He was moonlighting at FCPA and was getting paid from everyone with our tax payer’s dollars. At the previous Academy that he taught at he ended up marrying one of the recruits.

  259. #261 by Anonymous on September 28, 2011

    Nice. Just like how crimes committed by gang members carry sentencing enhancements, good thinking sir.

  260. #262 by shimon mendel on September 28, 2011

    A former political insider told me last week that PD union is so strong in Fullerton and the ‘culture’ at FPD is so ‘set’, that there is no way that FPD will get disbanded in favor of OCSD; but I think that old FPD will be under the eye of the Feds under some sort of consent decree and the feds will be the ones enforcing policy. That day will not come soon enough!

  261. #263 by Jane H on September 28, 2011

    LA Times
    September 28, 2011

    ACLU annual report on L.A. County Jail conditions

    Thomas Parker, a former FBI agent and Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the Bureau’s Los Angeles Field Office, reviewed inmate, former inmate, chaplain and civilian declarations, reports, correspondence, media articles, and legal filings, and found: “Of all the jails I have had the occasion to visit, tour, or conduct investigations within, domestically and internationally, I have never experienced any facility exhibiting the volume and repetitive patterns of violence, misfeasance, and malfeasance impacting the Los Angeles County Jail system…”9 “There is at least a two decade history of corruption within the ranks of the LASD. In most of those cases, lower level deputies and civilian employees were prosecuted, but no one at the command level responsible for those employees appears to have been held accountable and appropriately punished for failure to properly supervise and manage their subordinate personnel and resources. In my opinion, this has provided the ‘seedbed’ for continued lax supervision, violence,…

    http://documents.latimes.com/aclu-report-la-county-jails/

    I worked for LA County for years, and I know how deep their corruption goes. Cronyism is alive and well.

    Now, having said that, I also know there are departments that have an incredible amount stress, simply because of the nature of their business, such as Sheriff’s Department, Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services, Probation Department, Superior Court and the Registrar recorder. Almost any county agency that deals with the public is stressful. A lot of people who work in DCFS get threatened by fathers (mostly) who are in arrears for child support and having their wages garnished.

    Because I was a public servant, I know that politics influence everything, I mean everything.

    Perhaps the most troubling aspect of public employment is the sense of entitlement that inevitably results from that culture, not always, but often. I worked with people who told me straight out to slow down my work because it made others look bad; they wanted to coast along doing very little. I called them the “Pod People”

    I saw time after time, the collusion and corruption. The main thing to strive for, promotion, and especially promotion soon before retiring. You could be the biggest idiot on earth, but if you have enough friends they’ll stick in a department as a manager for the last few years so that you get that pay grade=more retirement $$, and doesn’t matter at all how incompetent you are.

    I remember a serious incident that left someone injured, and because I was a witness, I hard to submit a written report, which I was forced to revise by three different people.

    So disillusioned was I, that I promised myself after I quit that I would never work again for any government agency. Someday I may change my mind, but I don’t think so. When it comes to the game of profit and power, anything goes.

    Justice!

  262. #264 by Justice for ALL on September 28, 2011

    No one, EXCEPT for the guilty and complicit cops, believes that lying, sexual assault, falsifying reports, theft, the use of excessive force and brutality, murder, perjury, coverups, etc., etc., committed under color of authority, and cops who can’t even read or write is “funny.” Keep laughing it up.

  263. #265 by Concerned on September 28, 2011

    Best line in the Order (or evah’):

    Requiring Rincon to attend “pat-down” training is weak sauce that does nothing to hide the unpleasant taste of complicity.

    Nicely played, sir.

    One thing to note, folks. This was a (partial) dismissal of a motion for summary judgment. An MSJ is the best way to get rid of a case, but it is very hard to do. It is tough to dismiss a case on an MSJ because the court will assume the facts most favorable to the party against which the motion is brought. So Judge Guiliford is analyzing the case with the assumption that all of the plaintiff’s facts alleged are true. This is intentionally favorable to the Plaintiff so as to establish a high standard to overcome. That is because if you get thrown out on an MSJ you are essentially done. Essentially, you have to convince the court that even if all of the factual assertions are true, they still would not have a case to make. However, nobody has made a determination on the veracity of the facts alleged. That will be determined by the trier of fact if it proceeds to trial. So just because the court is presuming the facts are true, doesn’t mean they ultimately will be proven so. The attorney for the plaintiffs will have to convince the trier of fact of the veracity of the facts alleged at trial. That will be where the two sides offer differing stories and the evidence that they have in support. Then the trier of fact (judge or jury) decides who is more credible. So while it is certainly a victory to overcome an MSJ, it is far from an indication that you are going to win your case. This is an important distinction for your average layperson reading the language of the order out of context. One might assume that the court is saying that the plaintiff has proven their case. In fact, they are saying only that they haven’t failed to allege facts sufficient to make a case for a legal cause of action. If you get dismissed on an MSJ, it means that even if one assumes all of your factual assertions are true, what you have alleged to have occured does not meet the criteria for a legal claim.

  264. #266 by merijoe on September 28, 2011

    Petition for you to sign online-http://www.petition2congress.com/4898/kelly-thomas-law/?m=2099044

    Michael G :September 28, 2011
    Dear President Obama:Dear Representative Miller:Dear Senator Boxer:Dear Senator Feinstein:
    I would like to petition Congress to pass a law that creates sentencing enhancements for officers convicted of crimes against the public while under the color of authority. Said enhancements should double the sentence that an ordinary citizen would receive for the same crime.
    As well, I would like to petition Congress to pass a law that allows other police officers to become responsible and obligated legally to intervene and restrain rogue police officers if they witness an assault by a fellow officer during the commission of an arrest. As in the Fullerton case and numerous other cases, other officers witnessing excessive force by law enforcement on the scene aren’t compelled/accountable enough to act and prevent deaths such as the case involving Thomas. If another police officer on the scene witnesses excessive force being used, by another law enforcement officer or Officers, they should be obligated to assist the victim of such excessive force without penalty or reprimand because no ordinary citizen can safely intervene and stop it without being subjected to further assault and arrest. If the officers on the scene don’t assist the victim & don’t participate, they should still all be charged the same as the main aggressor because they did nothing to stop it. Aggressive force by Police Organizations across the country, in my opinion, can be prevented by the very officers that are sworn to protect and serve all citizens regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation. From the victimization of Rodney King to the tragic death of Kelly Thomas, there has to be a law created that can curtail such violence and senseless behavior by law enforcement. And it is with great sincerity & urgency that we address this issue in memory of all victims that have been intentionally assaulted or died at the hands of rogue officers when, had the officer(s) been compelled to stop or restrained, this could’ve been prevented.
    Sincerely,

  265. #267 by Mike on September 28, 2011

    True, and also from my undertanding this is just the law suit. So far to my knowledge Officer Rincon is still with the FPD and the DA or the FEDs have no intention of pursuing criminal charges against him. After all is said and done he’ll still be on the force, even if the city is found liable in the suit. Thank you powerful California public employee unions folks! What can be done?

  266. #268 by Michael G on September 28, 2011

    The text I posted is a copy of my signed petition.

  267. #269 by Mike on September 28, 2011

    At least you got away.

  268. #270 by alcu on September 28, 2011

    merijoe :
    Petition for you to sign online-http://www.petition2congress.com/4898/kelly-thomas-law/?m=2099044

    Michael G :September 28, 2011
    Dear President Obama:Dear Representative Miller:Dear Senator Boxer:Dear Senator Feinstein:
    I would like to petition Congress to pass a law that creates sentencing enhancements for officers convicted of crimes against the public while under the color of authority. Said enhancements should double the sentence that an ordinary citizen would receive for the same crime.
    As well, I would like to petition Congress to pass a law that allows other police officers to become responsible and obligated legally to intervene and restrain rogue police officers if they witness an assault by a fellow officer during the commission of an arrest. As in the Fullerton case and numerous other cases, other officers witnessing excessive force by law enforcement on the scene aren’t compelled/accountable enough to act and prevent deaths such as the case involving Thomas. If another police officer on the scene witnesses excessive force being used, by another law enforcement officer or Officers, they should be obligated to assist the victim of such excessive force without penalty or reprimand because no ordinary citizen can safely intervene and stop it without being subjected to further assault and arrest. If the officers on the scene don’t assist the victim & don’t participate, they should still all be charged the same as the main aggressor because they did nothing to stop it. Aggressive force by Police Organizations across the country, in my opinion, can be prevented by the very officers that are sworn to protect and serve all citizens regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation. From the victimization of Rodney King to the tragic death of Kelly Thomas, there has to be a law created that can curtail such violence and senseless behavior by law enforcement. And it is with great sincerity & urgency that we address this issue in memory of all victims that have been intentionally assaulted or died at the hands of rogue officers when, had the officer(s) been compelled to stop or restrained, this could’ve been prevented.
    Sincerely,

    Good move. I’ll sign it.

  269. #271 by alcu on September 28, 2011

    shimon mendel :
    A former political insider told me last week that PD union is so strong in Fullerton and the ‘culture’ at FPD is so ‘set’, that there is no way that FPD will get disbanded in favor of OCSD; but I think that old FPD will be under the eye of the Feds under some sort of consent decree and the feds will be the ones enforcing policy. That day will not come soon enough!

    I plan on leaving Fullerton. These creatures in the FPD are all powerful. The FBI will whitewash all this controversy and return to the bars for the holidays. Free booze and thick envelopes. The entire system hopeless and cancerous. Too much money involved that’s what it’s all about. It’s all over. Don’t think that the FPD animals aren’t aware of the identities of the posters here. They do illegal wire taps every day.

  270. #272 by Brown on September 28, 2011

    Jane H :
    LA Times
    September 28, 2011
    ACLU annual report on L.A. County Jail conditions
    Thomas Parker, a former FBI agent and Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the Bureau’s Los Angeles Field Office, reviewed inmate, former inmate, chaplain and civilian declarations, reports, correspondence, media articles, and legal filings, and found: “Of all the jails I have had the occasion to visit, tour, or conduct investigations within, domestically and internationally, I have never experienced any facility exhibiting the volume and repetitive patterns of violence, misfeasance, and malfeasance impacting the Los Angeles County Jail system…”9 “There is at least a two decade history of corruption within the ranks of the LASD. In most of those cases, lower level deputies and civilian employees were prosecuted, but no one at the command level responsible for those employees appears to have been held accountable and appropriately punished for failure to properly supervise and manage their subordinate personnel and resources. In my opinion, this has provided the ‘seedbed’ for continued lax supervision, violence,…
    http://documents.latimes.com/aclu-report-la-county-jails/
    I worked for LA County for years, and I know how deep their corruption goes. Cronyism is alive and well.
    Now, having said that, I also know there are departments that have an incredible amount stress, simply because of the nature of their business, such as Sheriff’s Department, Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services, Probation Department, Superior Court and the Registrar recorder. Almost any county agency that deals with the public is stressful. A lot of people who work in DCFS get threatened by fathers (mostly) who are in arrears for child support and having their wages garnished.
    Because I was a public servant, I know that politics influence everything, I mean everything.
    Perhaps the most troubling aspect of public employment is the sense of entitlement that inevitably results from that culture, not always, but often. I worked with people who told me straight out to slow down my work because it made others look bad; they wanted to coast along doing very little. I called them the “Pod People”
    I saw time after time, the collusion and corruption. The main thing to strive for, promotion, and especially promotion soon before retiring. You could be the biggest idiot on earth, but if you have enough friends they’ll stick in a department as a manager for the last few years so that you get that pay grade=more retirement $$, and doesn’t matter at all how incompetent you are.
    I remember a serious incident that left someone injured, and because I was a witness, I hard to submit a written report, which I was forced to revise by three different people.
    So disillusioned was I, that I promised myself after I quit that I would never work again for any government agency. Someday I may change my mind, but I don’t think so. When it comes to the game of profit and power, anything goes.
    Justice!

    The only way to control the corrupt sadistic cops and guards is to remove collective bargining. These bastards have forfeited this entitlement.

  271. #273 by Friendly Neighbor on September 28, 2011

    alcu :

    shimon mendel :A former political insider told me last week that PD union is so strong in Fullerton and the ‘culture’ at FPD is so ‘set’, that there is no way that FPD will get disbanded in favor of OCSD; but I think that old FPD will be under the eye of the Feds under some sort of consent decree and the feds will be the ones enforcing policy. That day will not come soon enough!

    I plan on leaving Fullerton. These creatures in the FPD are all powerful. The FBI will whitewash all this controversy and return to the bars for the holidays. Free booze and thick envelopes. The entire system hopeless and cancerous. Too much money involved that’s what it’s all about. It’s all over. Don’t think that the FPD animals aren’t aware of the identities of the posters here. They do illegal wire taps every day.

    Where you gonna go ALCU? This crap is everywhere. I plan on setting anchor and riding this out until we have won.

  272. #274 by Sean on September 28, 2011

    I could be missing the point entirely, but I think the point to take from this is the judges recognition of the FPD’s lack of action and what he said “amounts to a deliberate indifference to the plaintiffs civil rights”

  273. #275 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 28, 2011

    Sure I did. But first, once again: T-Rack is no hero nor friend to me. Never really paid much attention to him before except stuff I’d read in Frank Mickadeit’s OCR column and Scott Moxley’s reporting in the OC Weekly. I don’t give a shit about T-Rack, but I did have a theory of the case, that there was absolutely no cover-up. I also predicted the DA would bring serious charges against two or more of the officers. And I gave a time-frame for charges to be brought. All of this came to pass as I said it would, pretty much down to the day, but my opinion and prediction was not a popular one here, so in defending my theory it may have appeared I was siding with the DA (‘sides’ are ridiculously important here, like on an elementary school playground) but really my defense was of my theory, not T-Rack. But go ahead and believe your snark if it gives you comfort. :) But that’s all it is, snark.

    Second: Go back and read my posts on that other thread. Sorry you missed it the first time. Among the reasons I previously gave as to why the DA’s office might have chosen to not charge Rincon is that the standard of proof in a criminal case is quite high, and because Rincon turned off his DAR, there is little to no evidence beyond ‘he said/she said.’ Indeed, both sides have acknowledged this in the current civil trial proceedings, using those exact words I’d add. However, in a civil trial where the standard of proof is much lower, inferences drawn from Rincon’s acts, such as turning off his DAR, might be enough.

    I further stated that in my opinion all but one of the women would make really lousy witnesses in a criminal trial, where their arrest records would most likely come into evidence to show possible bias against police, and I detailed those local records. The records painted a sad picture of all but one woman being troubled by intravenous drugs and alcohol. Sentences including significant jail and probation time, needle awareness classes, alcoholism treatment, etc. Frankly, I was really surprised by how much dirt I dug up in just a few minutes, and again, only from local arrest records. Rincon’s defense would no doubt have dug up a lot more. Perhaps the DA did? So, lousy witnesses + a she said/he said case + no hard evidence likely = no charges against Rincon. This is not rocket science.

    That being said, I wish the women well in their lawsuit and still believe Rincon should be fired for violating an important department policy, thus exposing the City of Fullerton to major liability, and also for clearly being a perverted dick.

  274. #276 by Concerned on September 28, 2011

    True. But nobody has concluded that the plaintiff has proven that, yet. He has just ruled that if everything the Plaintiff says is true, then there has been a deliberate indifference to civil rights — which would be a cause of action for civil damages.

  275. #277 by truthseeker on September 28, 2011

    Do not fear the workers of iniquity. They serve the darkness. We serve the truth and the truth will stand on its own. Hell is full of those who believed the lie.

  276. #278 by Concerned on September 28, 2011

    Yeah, I’m pretty sure the requirement in inter-department policy. While not enforcing or punishing for failure to comply with the requirement may show the kind of pattern alleged in the plaintiff’s civil lawsuit here (taken in the aggregate with all kinds of other failures to correct), there is no real consequence to them. It certainly isn’t a violation of the law.

  277. #279 by Concerned on September 28, 2011

    Ordered by whom?

  278. #280 by Jeff on September 28, 2011

    Where is Gloria Alred when you need her? I can’t stand that woman but this would be a great project for her!

  279. #281 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    hey normanbatesbathousesploogebreath, you still can’t spell, you are only allowed to check boxes in a citation, so you must be one of fpd’s useful idiots:Useful idiot” is often used as a pejorative term for those who are seen to unwittingly support a malignant cause through their ‘naive’ attempts to be a force for good. For example, the term has been used by some commentators to describe people the commentators believe are effectively supporting Islamic terrorism by favouring an approach based on appeasement. Anthony Browne wrote in the British newspaper, The Times:[5]

    “ Elements within the British establishment were notoriously sympathetic to Hitler. Today the Islamists enjoy similar support. In the 1930s it was Edward VIII, aristocrats and the Daily Mail; this time it is left-wing activists, The Guardian and sections of the BBC. They may not want a global theocracy, but they are like the West’s apologists for the Soviet Union — useful idiots. ”

    A 2010 BBC radio documentary lists among useful idiots of Stalin several prominent British writers including H. G. Wells and Doris Lessing, the Irish writer George Bernard Shaw, and the American journalist Walter Duranty and the singer Paul Robeson.[6]

  280. #282 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    allennormanbatesploogebreath, you try doing something with you red lights, and i will shove them up your bung hole you butt pirate you! sounds like a criminal threat under the color of authority….hmmm!

  281. #283 by Col. Hee Haw on September 28, 2011

    I’m sure his birth certificate is spelled Alan. He screws up spelling everything else under the sun, why not his own name?

    Referring to him as GED anything would be giving him way too much credit.

  282. #284 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    allensploogebreathpolesmoker’s birth certificate was made up by the same photshop idiot that did obummer’s fake certificate. it’s fake only because allen is not the product of a live birth from any human mother, he is a test tube splooge result.

  283. #285 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 28, 2011

    Judge Guilford certainly seems sympathetic to the women; however the case law is extremely clear, if not well understood here on FFF. The late Justice Harry Blackmun put it quite simply and succinctly in a 1981 Supreme Court ruling, CITY OF NEWPORT V. FACT CONCERTS, INC.:

    “Considerations of public policy do not support exposing a municipality to punitive damages for the malicious or reckless conduct of its officials. Neither the retributive nor the deterrence objectives of punitive damages …would be significantly advanced by holding municipalities liable for such damages.”

  284. #286 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    You have way too much time on your hands.

    Tell you what Ms. Who ever you are.

    Go to Mexico – If you haven’t already. Force an encounter with the Mexican Authorities and pull your little stunts like you do with the police here in California. Maybe you can tell us what happens – if you ever make it back here.

    Looking forward to your response.

    My guess is it will be a similar response like those i recieved when I posed this question a couple of months ago.

    Oh, and try to minimize your explatives and
    stay on point.

    I challenge you

  285. #287 by STAND UP on September 28, 2011

    why dont you go to mexico and get beheaded by the cartel!!!
    cholo

  286. #288 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    STAND UP :why dont you go to mexico and get beheaded by the cartel!!!cholo

    Here’s an intelligent response

  287. #289 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    widdlestainondaddyssheetsallen, don’t attempt to censor anyone’s free speech rights you simpleton childlike moron! sounds like you are a bit riled up tsk, tsk, tsk!

  288. #290 by Concerned on September 28, 2011

    Sure, Allen. Because Mexico is a crooked, violent narco-state, that makes our own shortcomings A-OK. Gee, thanks, glad you cleared that up for us. Nice logic.

  289. #291 by blessusall on September 28, 2011

    Frankly, that’s the point. The police brutality and criminality in California is starting to look similar to that one might expect to find in some other country besides the United States, the world leader in human rights. So at this point you don’t have to go to some other country to see what would happen. These things are happening right in Fullerton, CA, USA. That’s why people are speaking out and protesting. Speaking out and protesting is, in fact, what makes this the great Nation that it is. If we are complacent and apathetic and victim blaming and sit idly by and do nothing and criticize others who do have the courage to show up and speak out, then we lose everything that this country stands for.

    Allen :
    You have way too much time on your hands.
    Tell you what Ms. Who ever you are.
    Go to Mexico – If you haven’t already. Force an encounter with the Mexican Authorities and pull your little stunts like you do with the police here in California. Maybe you can tell us what happens – if you ever make it back here.
    Looking forward to your response.
    My guess is it will be a similar response like those i recieved when I posed this question a couple of months ago.
    Oh, and try to minimize your explatives and
    stay on point.
    I challenge you

  290. #292 by Citizen M on September 28, 2011

    People emergency city council meeting in the morning at 10 am be there or be square…….got something to say do ya? want to see real evil? Well Thursday at 10 am…see ya there!

  291. #293 by ChIcken on September 28, 2011

    BETTER HOPE AND PRAY, thats its not YOUR mother , or your sister , or your WIFE , getting pulled over at NIGHT ,, by this sicko , or one of his buddies , with a badge and gun.

    ;alkjdfl;akjsdfl;kjasdlkfj, vomit, a;lsdfkjalskdjf a;sdlkfj

    chxn

  292. #294 by Jane H on September 28, 2011

    ACLU: Sheriff Lee Baca must resign over County Jail report

    September 28, 2011 | 1:30 pm

    The ACLU is calling for Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca to resign on the heels of a report chronicling what it labeled “pervasive abuse” of jail inmates by deputies.

    “Sheriff Baca bears ultimate responsibility for the horrific details we uncovered compiling this report and must step down,” said Peter Eliasberg, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union.

    Read the rest here:

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/09/aclu-calls-for-sheriff-lee-baca-to-resign-over-inmate-abuse-in-county-jails-.html

    They are making Baca ultimately responsible for the jail abuses, just like the Fullerton city PD brass. should be forced to do.

  293. #295 by ChIcken on September 28, 2011

    and just so you know

    ….

    VIVA MEXICO ,

    CHXNSKRATCH

  294. #296 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    Still waiting for your answer

  295. #297 by Jane H on September 28, 2011

    That should read:

    …just like the Fullerton city and PD brass should be forced to do.

  296. #298 by blessusall on September 28, 2011

    Done.

  297. #299 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    Totally agree with you – except, if what bloggers say on this site is true, then we are far from being the greatest country in the world..

    We are free to speak and we are free to challenge authority. But WE ALL MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR OUR ACTIONS

  298. #300 by blessusall on September 28, 2011

  299. #301 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    PLEASE BACK UP YOUR OPINION IN REFERENCE TO “SICKO”

  300. #302 by blessusall on September 28, 2011

    Dear God,

    PLEASE HELP US!

  301. #303 by CH123 on September 28, 2011

    It’s amazing how it only took 2-3 months’ time for so many of us to go from living in a pleasant community to realizing that we’ve had the wool over our eyes all along. This department and the majority of the City Council disgust me.

  302. #304 by merijoe on September 28, 2011

    uh, isnt this an allen quote “We are free to speak and we are free to challenge authority. But WE ALL MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR OUR ACTIONS”

    then two lines down

    Another Allen quote- “PLEASE BACK UP YOUR OPINION IN REFERENCE TO “SICKO”

    oh I know – hes one of those hypocrites

  303. #305 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    fucktardedikainspellferahillobeansallenbatessploogebreath. you say you want accountability? then let’s start that “accountability task force” with convictions of every filthy, dirty rotten cop in this country. so, is it do as i say, or do as i do?
    allen you are a dirty, rotten smelly piece of garbage and lysol couldn’t even clean up your nasty smell!

  304. #306 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    stupid fullerton cops vacation with the drug/gun running cartels. they think they belong to the us gubmint abc agencies!

  305. #307 by blessusall on September 28, 2011

    CH123

    It’s like waking up from a dream only to discover reality is a nightmare. Which is perhaps why we had to create the dream-like state of denial in the first place, just so we could cope with reality. It’s hard in the beginning, but in the long run, if you educate yourself and get involved, it can be very empowering. Instead living your whole life as if you are asleep, you may have the possibility of actually living it.

  306. #308 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    allenelsploogebreathpolesmoker. you’re not a sick. you are just a 5150, certifiable! you vacation at patton state hospital!

  307. #309 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    problem is, fullerton didn’t just happen, this crap taking over our country has been going on for over 100 yrs. wilson started this progressive backsliding during his presidency. we have been asleep at the wheel, and like rip van winkle, we woken up from our big nap with kelly’s murder by cops.

  308. #310 by fedupwithmorons on September 28, 2011

    i have a life, unlike you allen who appears to be one if the administratively suspended cops with nothing better to do than harass us!

  309. #311 by Anonymous on September 28, 2011

    Make that all of orange county….here is another story which includes a Fullerton court, a police chief/retired and pensioned, and indecent exposure, but not a registered sex offender.

  310. #312 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 28, 2011

    My wife would kick his ass five ways from Sunday.

  311. #313 by blessusall on September 28, 2011

    Indeed, we are in agreement for the most part. I said that US is a world leader and a great nation. If we get to the point of considering ourselves the greatest AND then become complacent and stop striving for growth and improvement, then we lose what we have worked so hard for in the first place. And maybe that’s what has happened to some extent–we’ve just become complacent. To question and to evaluate and to criticize does not mean that we don’t love our country or see it as a great nation. The fact that we do that is what makes us a great nation.

  312. #314 by Anonymous on September 28, 2011

    Here is the link to the story about the fullerton court/police chief/ indecent exposure
    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/police-281024-anaheim-martinez.html

  313. #315 by fullerton lover on September 28, 2011

    With the average I.Q. for police work set at 104, I’d have to guess by your writing that you were on the low side amigo.

  314. #316 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 28, 2011

    Funny this need to tag everybody… so now I’m a law enforcement supporter! What I’ve tried to contribute here is law-based analysis and more mundane alternative explanations to the more whacked group-think conspiracy theories and outright mis-infomation I’ve encountered here.

    Of course longe before I ever discovered FFF I characterized the Kelly Thomas murder elsewhere as “rapidly turning into the most shameful event in modern OC history.”
    http://voiceofoc.org/oc_north/fullerton/article_4ca218cc-bfbc-11e0-a4e2-001cc4c03286.html

    But now I’m a “REALLY strange supporter of law enforcement.” (sigh)

  315. #317 by Anonymous on September 28, 2011

    Allen is the biggest troll ever here.. he can assume 15 identities all with the same name

    He is not a LEO.. or even a human..

    He uses different names to quote himself and give himself pats on the back.. check the IP Address

  316. #318 by MeYou on September 28, 2011

    Allen is the biggest troll ever here.. he can assume 15 identities all with the same name

    He is not a LEO.. or even a human..

    He uses different names to quote himself and give himself pats on the back.. check the IP Address

  317. #319 by just a guy on September 28, 2011

    Like everyone else on this blog, Judge Andrew Guilford is just a bitter cop-hating malcontent with no job and no future.

    Nothing to see here. Move along, please.

  318. #320 by MeYou on September 28, 2011

    the DA’s own reports show WOLFE ASSAULTED KELLY with his nightstick FORCING HIM TO RUN FOR HIS LIFE

    now what.. how is it Mr DA that Wolfe is innocent?>?>?????????????????????

  319. #321 by merijoe#1 on September 28, 2011

    that how PD rolls in Fullerton, wonder if they have to have groups when a bulb needs changing

  320. #322 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 28, 2011

    No apology, just objective analysis of what I would think might be the reasons Rincon was not prosecuted.
    http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2011/federal-judge-shocked-by-fullertons-handling-of-fpd-sex-assaults/#comment-63257

    Short form: Junkies, jail-birds, probationers and multiple offense drunk drivers make really lousy witnesses against cops in a she said/he said criminal trial with little to no hard evidence. I’ve reviewed all the case docs and this one is clearly a non-starter as a criminal case anyhwere, but particularly before a typical conservative OC jury, like the one that couldn’t see its way to convicting Irvine Officer David Park, who jacked off on a stripper he was obsessing on after following her home from Captain Creame (RIP) and pulling her over, leaving his DNA all over her boobs. Now THATS hard evidence, as strong and nasty as it gets, but in OC even this wasn’t enough.

    Not that this makes Rincon any less of a criminal pervert dick, it’s just reality.

    http://www.ocweekly.com/2007-02-08/news/illegally-park-ed/

  321. #323 by blessusall on September 28, 2011

    I know a lot of things
    but still
    I don’t understand this world.

    Oh, Kelly, I am so sorry.

  322. #324 by MeYou on September 28, 2011

    http://bbvm.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/irvine-police-officer-david-alex-park-ejaculates-on-motorist-and-gets-away-with-it/

    another LOSER CASE for Orange County DA Tony “PAPASMURF” Rackauckas

    READ IT ANS SEE WHO PAPASMURF TONY RACKAUCKAS REALLY IS

    HE LET HIM GET OFF no pun intended
    In the wee hours of Dec. 15, 2004, Lucy (only her first name was used during the trial) finished her final shift at Captain Cream in Lake Forest, not far from the Irvine Spectrum Center. Management had let her go after an incident involving a female customer in a bathroom stall. According to court records, there had been a small amount of cocaine, kissing and breast fondling.

    Meanwhile, Park was on patrol in the southwest portion of Irvine. Prosecutors believe he was craving a sexual rendezvous, and so he watched for Lucy’s white BMW to leave the strip club parking lot, then tailed her, waiting for an excuse for a stop. Park insisted he’d been cruising on the 405 north and coincidentally saw Lucy’s vehicle weave and speed.

    Kamiabipour, the prosecutor, shook her head in disbelief. She knew the facts – that the officer had waited at least eight or nine minutes before stopping the stripper on a secluded section of a highway that was out of his jurisdiction.

    “He was stalking her,” she said.

    Four months earlier, Park had stopped Lucy under similar circumstances. That time, he’d ignored a plastic drug baggie he’d found in her car and her suspended license. But the stop wasn’t a waste of time. After friendly chit-chat, the officer had scored Lucy’s phone number. Telephone records show that Park called the stripper the next morning. She told him she was too busy to meet.

    On the witness stand, Park explained that he’d called Lucy out of concern for a citizen’s safety. He also shrugged his shoulders when Kamiabipour slowly listed the first names of nine Captain Cream female employees—Annette, Denise, Rashele, Marlia, Brandi, Andrea, Deborah, Laura and Shannon—whose license plates he’d run through the California Department of Motor Vehicles computer in the weeks prior to his sexual encounter with Lucy. (Another coincidence, according to Stokke.) Jurors also learned that Irvine Police Sgt. Michael Hallinan had previously warned Park as they left work to stay away from the strippers.

    Park, who works in construction nowadays, conceded that he’d been given the warning but claimed that he had no clue it was Lucy in the vehicle or that she had an invalid driver’s license, even as he approached her car window.

    Kamiabipour believed she’d caught the 6-foot-3 cop in a lie. Records show he ran the bosomy, 5-foot, 110-pound dancer’s license plate before the stop, did not call for backup despite the potential for an arrest and failed to tell his supervisor or dispatch that he was leaving Irvine. Several Irvine officers testified that Park’s behavior that night was odd.

    “[Park's] testimony was just incredible,” said Kamiabipour. Irvine city officials must have doubted his story, too. After an exhaustive police internal affairs investigation, they felt it was prudent to give Lucy $400,000 to make her civil lawsuit go away—for fear a jury might give her much more.

    In a secretly-recorded phone call to the Laguna Beach Police Department shortly after the incident, Lucy recalled that she’d told Park she had no license. Park began “rubbing himself up against me,” she said. “Then, he said, ‘What are we going to do here, Lucy?’”

    Park unzipped his pants, took his penis out and got an erection, she explained. “Basically, the officer made me give [him] a freaking hand job and he let me go. I’m so freaked out about it.”

    (Lucy also told police, prosecutors and the jury that Park had also fingered her vagina and fondled her breasts before he ejaculated on her.)

    “I was confused,” she told the Laguna Beach dispatcher. “He called me afterwards. I’m scared, you know . . . What’s an Irvine cop doing hanging out at a strip club in Lake Forest?”

    Telephone records prove that Park made a 19-minute call to Lucy shortly after their encounter. The officer – who told the woman he was “Joe Stephens,” an Orange County Sheriff’s Department deputy who had died months earlier – said it was a friendly call to make sure she’d arrived home safely. The stripper said he told her to keep her mouth shut.

    And then Kamiabipour introduced the bombshell evidence from a high-ranking Irvine police officer: on the night Park tailed Lucy out of the city, the global positioning system in his patrol car had been disconnected without authorization.

    “I checked and [the GPS] was not working,” said Lt. Henry Boggs.

    An unexplainable coincidence, Park’s defense countered.

    * * *

  323. #325 by Fullerton on September 28, 2011

    We have become police state. Orange County Sheriffs are the same crooks at Leo County jails. They never prosecute even thoug the evidences are enormous….Culture of Corruption.

  324. #326 by MeYou on September 28, 2011

    PLEAE REFER TO DA TONY RACKAUCKAS as

    PAPA SMURF BLUELINER

    FOREVER AND EVER from here on out

    no human with a brain will accept his bullshit ..

    4 cops out of six did nothing wrong whatsoever.. uhm.. OK

  325. #327 by Justice for ALL on September 28, 2011

    @ Allen,
    It is spelled: E-X-P-L-E-T-I-V-E-S
    You REALLY DO need to learn to pay attention to details.

    Attention to detail is a VERY important quality for an officer to possess. Actually, it is LIFE and DEATH important.

    And, it is VERY PAINFULLY CLEAR to everyone that you, just like your buddies in blue, don’t pay any attention at all to details.

    Especially those tiny, pesky details such as:

    Was Kelly Thomas struggling and fighting to be able to BREATHE and for his RIGHT TO LIFE?

    Or, was Kelly Thomas a deadly threat to six, large officers?

    Kelly Thomas- who was being beaten with batons, who had just had his head bashed into the curb, and who was being kicked and punched until his ribs broke and punctured his lung, which lung then collapsed and filled with blood.

    Kelly Thomas- who was placed in a prone choke hold, who was being held down, sat on and suffocated by several overweight cops, and who was being repeatedly Tasered to the chest and backside, and who was lying in a very large pool of blood, who was unconscious, who was non-responsive, and who was THEN knee dropped on his head and neck twice.

    Was Kelly Thomas, in fact, struggling and fighting to be able to breathe and for his right to life?

    Were Kelly’s screams of sheer agony and pain, begging for mercy, begging for his Dad and God to help him, while he was being tortured and suffocated and murdered, REALLY threatening in any way to the six, large officers??

    Was Kelly Thomas screaming for help because he could not breathe and he was dying? Or, were his screams threats?

    Is someone who is being brutally beaten to death and repeatedly Tasered NOT expected to scream in pain and lose control of their body? And, is that same person also NOT expected to flail around in self-defense, disorientation and panic?

    Did an unconscious and unresponsive Kelly Thomas REALLY deserve to be bludgeoned in the face with the butt end of a Taser eight times?

    OR– was the unarmed, half naked, disoriented and dazed (from just having his brains bashed in), confused, mentally ill, malnourished, 135 lb. Kelly Thomas, who was suffering from massive blood loss, suffering from a collapsed lung, and who had multiple Taser shocks to his chest/heart/body, REALLY capable of standing up at that point and posing any real threat to six, professionally trained, bullet proof vest wearing, large, steroid amped up officers?

    YOU might think it’s not important that you can’t spell; however, I believe that your lack of spelling ability is only the “tip of the iceberg” when it comes to your grave and deadly incompetence.

  326. #328 by blessusall on September 28, 2011

    You are a champion for Kelly Thomas, Justice for All. Thank you.

  327. #329 by blessusall on September 28, 2011

    And no matter what people throw in to fog the issue and create discord, this is the issue and this is what we must continue to post–what happened to Kelly Thomas. Post this as the the answer to every snide, victim blaming comment. This is the only response, no matter how ugly the detractors become.

  328. #330 by merijoe#1 on September 28, 2011

    Hey Allen why dont you keep your ignoramous, demented ramblings to a minimum?
    Oh and read a book, maybe something along the lines of history-
    The Constitution comes to mind-maybe that has too many big words for a 5th grade graduate like yourself so i’ll quote for you…
    In the American Constitution, not the Mexican Constitution we have whats called the 1st amendment-oh yes we do.
    Mexico does not have this, so yes, you probably would be arrested or shot if you tried to speak your mind there.
    Stunts? asshole Since the FPD had nothing to do with the writing of the first amendment, we can “try” any damn thing we like, as long as we are American’s on American soil and we abide by this, you moron, you.
    (and dont tell me to how much to use an explative):

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances”

    oh yeah, Allen, bite me. you commie

  329. #331 by Justice for ALL on September 28, 2011

    Thank YOU blessusall,
    Kelly is the reason I am here. I will never stop reminding the cop apologists, who seem to find everything so “funny,” of exactly what it is that they are defending- the brutal, merciless murder of an innocent man. The apologists make my stomach turn every day; they have no conscience and no shame.

  330. #332 by Sean on September 28, 2011

    You have a point? Smells like complete logic fail from here. And bacon.

    Insert expletive here Allen.

  331. #333 by blessusall on September 28, 2011

    I believe it is important that we continue to post over and over exactly what happened to Kelly. To every snide comment, re-post what happened. In that way, the trolls only help keep the real issue in the light, and people will read over and over again what they did to Kelly Thomas.

  332. #334 by blessusall on September 28, 2011

    JFA–well written too and nice touch with “expletives” and officers need for attention to detail being a matter of LIFE and DEATH. Bravo!

  333. #335 by Fred Alcazar on September 28, 2011

    FPD GED QED.

    Oh sorry troll, you have to get to 10th grade geometry proofs to understand QED!

  334. #336 by Allen on September 28, 2011

    My father was an abusive alcoholic who terrorized my mother and his children. He was unpredictable and we never knew if he was going to be a “happy” drunk or “mean” drunk so we had to tiptoe on eggshells all the time, hoping to get the “happy” dad but not wanting to set off the “mean” one. I carry around a lot of shame and that leaves me feeling as if I am “not good enough” and “less than.” I try to make myself feel better about myself by finding someone that I can feel “better than” and also by identifying with others who I see as being powerful–it’s just the powerless little boy in me trying to have the courage and strength to stand up to my abusive father. This is why I am so identified with the abusive cops who go around beating and murder others under the color of authority. I am afraid that no matter what I do or say, I will never be good enough.

  335. #337 by Fred Alcazar on September 28, 2011

    Thank you Allen. Recognition of your problem is the first step to recovery.

  336. #338 by Fred Alcazar on September 28, 2011

    Well that was the deal.

    You can be happy about it like EyeNeverSayNo, or you can marvel at the passes given to the rest of the Fullerton Six.

    Or you can realize that the slug Rackaukas isn’t the court of final appeal.

  337. #339 by ExPat ExLawyer on September 28, 2011

    Exactly. The DA needs to be grilled about this. OCR and LAT obviously won’t be anywhere on this Stop all the focus on the internals of the FPD. They key issue is what kind of oversight is on them. Seems like the DA lets it slide to the bare political minimum.

    We all need need to watch exactly how vigorously he tries these two cases – Ramos and Cissy. Watch like hawks. Tanking is a distinct possibility. Another poster noted how he could then say we did everything possible, but the jury went the other way.

    Sure. Let’s all just watch carefully.

  338. #340 by ExPat ExLawyer on September 28, 2011

    Correct. But you can also read between the lines with the language used by the court. He was clearling giving commentary as well about what the thought of the facts – well beyond what was necessary for the SJ ruling.

  339. #341 by Why? on September 28, 2011

    God, the ultimate authority, the loving God that releases us from the bondage of self.

  340. #342 by ExPat ExLawyer on September 28, 2011

    Doing law based analyses is great. But yours always start from the premise that the DA is a good guy, instead of acknowledging the conflict of interest he has in needing these cops as witnesses, getting contributions from their unions, and the shit he would get from them for prosecuting any of them unless he is so boxed into a corner like with Ramos and Cissy he has no choice.

    Sorry, but people can’t be abused like it’s open season because they have misdemeanors. The law is based on what the perpetrator did, not who the victim is. And these cases could probably all be tried together based on the same MO. He should have tried. As I’ve said before, I would not surprised in the rare instances of filings if the DA team does some tanking.

    Your legal analyses always start with the premise that the DA is a good guy. Very few DAs in America are good guys because they play on the same team as the cops.

  341. #343 by Why? on September 28, 2011

    They need to stop resisting love for their fellow citizens.

  342. #344 by Why? on September 28, 2011

    Why? :
    They need to stop resisting love for their fellow citizens.

    They need to stop resisting love for their fellow countrymen.

  343. #345 by Why? on September 28, 2011

    Allen :
    My father was an abusive alcoholic who terrorized my mother and his children. He was unpredictable and we never knew if he was going to be a “happy” drunk or “mean” drunk so we had to tiptoe on eggshells all the time, hoping to get the “happy” dad but not wanting to set off the “mean” one. I carry around a lot of shame and that leaves me feeling as if I am “not good enough” and “less than.” I try to make myself feel better about myself by finding someone that I can feel “better than” and also by identifying with others who I see as being powerful–it’s just the powerless little boy in me trying to have the courage and strength to stand up to my abusive father. This is why I am so identified with the abusive cops who go around beating and murder others under the color of authority. I am afraid that no matter what I do or say, I will never be good enough.

    A lot of us have been through it out here. A lot of us have suffered. Our founding fathers suffered. http://www.constitution.org/usdeclar.htm

    The herd instinct in people is painful to watch. We never drink, we obey orders, we comply, we speak softly, we don’t suffer from schizophrenia, yet we have family members killed by uneducated cowboys straight out of the corps, while stomping around and disassociating themselves from the public.

    This is what happens when the public decides to train young people to do all the dirty work, and when politicians decide to capitalize on protectionism by hiring them after serving.

    Cult members have been known to isolate individuals and use mind control for hidden agendas in the same manner people are being isolated publicly from their families today.

    Kids going to school, parents going to work, grandparents going to retirement homes = isolation.

    United we stand, divided we fall.

  344. #346 by Why? on September 28, 2011

    Concerned :
    Sure, Allen. Because Mexico is a crooked, violent narco-state, that makes our own shortcomings A-OK. Gee, thanks, glad you cleared that up for us. Nice logic.

    Think sustainable, Think city state, People have been saying Mexico is in a state of civil war.

    It was in the news,http://money.usnews.com/money/business-economy/articles/2009/04/17/10-countries-in-deep-trouble

  345. #347 by Disgusted on September 28, 2011

    Thats right. It was nothing less than the brutal beating death of a helpless, innocent human being by overpaid, arrogant civic employees who have long forgotten who they work for.

  346. #348 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 28, 2011

    Albert Einstein was a very poor speller. So was Thomas Edison.

    In their original manuscripts, many of our most famous writers and poets prove to have been amusingly bad spellers, among them are Hemingway, Ezra Pound, Emily Dickinson, Dylan Thomas, William Wordsworth and John Milton. Virginia Woolf had a particular problem locating apostrophes.

    Spelling ability does not correlate absolutely with intelligence. Interestingly, more than one study has actually shown a strikingly low correlation between spelling and general intelligence. Here’s one:
    http://www.jstor.org/stable/994410?seq=1

    One thing I’ve noticed on FFF and all around the Web: People tend to correct the spelling mistakes only of those with whom they disagree. That should tell you something, eh?

  347. #349 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 28, 2011

    “You can be happy about it like EyeNeverSayNo…”

    On the contrary, I have been clear in saying that while of course I would like to see all of the officers who failed to intervene or participated in the beating to have been charged– ADW with the GBH enhancement would have been satisfying– I understand that the evidence and the DA’s approach to the case do not allow for it.

    It’s easy to see that many here would like to have seen the all the officers charged as a form of punishment whether a conviction can be reasonably expected or not. Charging citizens with crimes as a form of punishment has historically been a favorite tactic of totalitarians and fascists. One of the things I love most about my country is that this is not how it works here. And I sure as hell hope it stays that way, and that cooler heads continue to prevail.

  348. #350 by Searcher of Truth on September 28, 2011

    Why don’t you all get real and realize that the only reason this blog is in existence is for Tony to further his politial agenda and for Ron Thomas to gain support for his lawsuit.

    Tony, I can understand his reasoning.

    Ron Thomas, one who supposedly cares about the homeless, (what a joke) I can’t get past the fact that he did not take care of his son while he was alive. Why was Kelly left to wander the streets hungry, begging for money and clothes. Ron at least could have clothed him. At least drop him a few bucks now and then. Take him a sandwich once in a while. Take him for a shower once a week. At least a thin t-shirt would have been nice, but no! There was nothing from Ron. Nothing! Absolutely Nothing!!!.

    If Kelly was begging for food and money, you know he was hungry and would have taken something from his family if they had offered it.

    I am sickened by Ron Thomas trying to get money for Kelly’s death. Just sickened by it.

    How many of you would have let your son wander aimlessly about the streets, cold, hungry, sick, dirty, obnoxious and breaking into vehicles and stealing things from the businesses around Fullerton and Brea and all the other areas around here. People scared of him because of his condition which caused him to yell at people for no reason.

    And you all want to blame the Fullerton Police, when in reality the City should be suing Ron Thomas for allowing the situation to exist. But, oh yeah, I forget, Ron Thomas washed his hands of Kelly! Would you wash your hands of your son in the streets? Any of you? Please be honest about your feelings.

  349. #351 by Justice for ALL on September 28, 2011

    @ Eye,

    I don’t suppose you have also “noticed” that the cop apologists that I criticize have NOWHERE NEAR the IQs of Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, Hemingway, Ezra Pound, Emily Dickinson, Dylan Thomas, William Wordsworth and John Milton and Virginia Woolf.

    The apologists, and their buddies in blue, can’t pay attention to the simplest details when writing a short paragraph, and they CERTAINLY can’t seem to be able to tell the difference between an innocent, unarmed, gravely injured man who is dying and struggling for his life right before their very eyes, – and someone who poses a genuine deadly threat to six, large, trained, bullet proof vest wearing officers.

    The “professional,” duly sworn, badge wearing, gun, rifle, Taser, baton toting, life and death wielding cops, are the ones I am concerned with.

    THEY are the ones we pay to “protect and serve” us. THEY are the ones who need to be held accountable to a HIGHER standard of intelligence, conduct, and responsibility for human life.

    When you can prove that you and your buddies have the morals, integrity, honesty, the attention to detail, and the IQ of Albert Einstein, et al., THEN I’ll let you off the hook for your spelling.

  350. #352 by Searcher of Truth on September 28, 2011

    Why are all of you against the Police? I really don’t understand.

  351. #353 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 28, 2011

    “THEY are the ones we pay to “protect and serve” us. THEY are the ones who need to be held accountable to a HIGHER standard of intelligence, conduct, and responsibility for human life.”

    And an important indicator of all of this is the ability to spell? Please. Spare us the high horse nonsense.

    Oh and here’s your ‘cop apologist’ commenting about the Thomas murder long before his first visit to FFF:

    “This is rapidly turning into the most shameful event in modern OC history. “–EyeNeverSayNo posted at 8:36 am on Sat, Aug 6, 2011

    http://voiceofoc.org/oc_north/fullerton/article_4ca218cc-bfbc-11e0-a4e2-001cc4c03286.html

  352. #354 by Justice for ALL on September 28, 2011

    @Searcher of Truth (blamer of the victim and excuser of murderers)

    Why don’t YOU get real and realize that the only reason YOU are here is to make excuses for murderers who murdered an innocent, unarmed man in cold blood.

    And, it is VERY PAINFULLY CLEAR to everyone that you, just like your buddies in blue, don’t pay any attention at all to details of fact.

    Especially those tiny, pesky details such as:

    Was Kelly Thomas struggling and fighting to be able to BREATHE and for his RIGHT TO LIFE?

    Or, was Kelly Thomas a deadly threat to six, large officers?

    Kelly Thomas- who was being beaten with batons, who had just had his head bashed into the curb, and who was being kicked and punched until his ribs broke and punctured his lung, which lung then collapsed and filled with blood.

    Kelly Thomas- who was placed in a prone choke hold, who was being held down, sat on and suffocated by several overweight cops, and who was being repeatedly Tasered to the chest and backside, and who was lying in a very large pool of blood, who was unconscious, who was non-responsive, and who was THEN knee dropped on his head and neck twice.

    Was Kelly Thomas, in fact, struggling and fighting to be able to breathe and for his right to life?

    Were Kelly’s screams of sheer agony and pain, begging for mercy, begging for his Dad and God to help him, while he was being tortured and suffocated and murdered, REALLY threatening in any way to the six, large officers??

    Was Kelly Thomas screaming for help because he could not breathe and he was dying? Or, were his screams threats?

    Is someone who is being brutally beaten to death and repeatedly Tasered NOT expected to scream in pain and lose control of their body? And, is that same person also NOT expected to flail around in self-defense, disorientation and panic?

    Did an unconscious and unresponsive Kelly Thomas REALLY deserve to be bludgeoned in the face with the butt end of a Taser eight times?

    OR– was the unarmed, half naked, disoriented and dazed (from just having his brains bashed in), confused, mentally ill, malnourished, 135 lb. Kelly Thomas, who was suffering from massive blood loss, suffering from a collapsed lung, and who had multiple Taser shocks to his chest/heart/body, REALLY capable of standing up at that point and posing any real threat to six, professionally trained, bullet proof vest wearing, large, steroid amped up officers?

    Officers are duly sworn to “protect and serve” citizens, NOT murder them. Officers should “protect and serve” the most vulnerable and weak among us, NOT murder them. Officers should be held to a HIGHER standard of care, not a lower standard.

  353. #355 by Reality Is on September 28, 2011

    I like how you gradually went from ripping the Fullerton cops, to a slow gradual slam on all cops.

    You expect perfection? You think you will ever get perfection? Are you perfect? Just curious.

  354. #356 by Justice for ALL on September 28, 2011

    If the shoe fits, wear it.

    Attention to detail IS important. Especially when they obviously can’t tell the difference between murdering someone and “restraining” someone.

  355. #357 by Reality Is on September 28, 2011

    At least you got one paragraph right. The last one.

    Just realize all 135 pound schizos in the world aren’t harmless, caring, loving members of society. If you can admit some are the most dangerous people around, I’ll go with ya on the rest.

  356. #358 by Justice for ALL on September 28, 2011

    I didn’t murder anyone. Your buddies have an awfully LOT to answer for.

  357. #359 by Reality Is on September 28, 2011

    I agree. Neither did I. Yes, they do and they are.

    I just think we will all deal with things like this til we all die. Be it a cop, judge, attorney, lawyer, mayor, or whoever else. Murder will happen forever among everyone. Humans will always make choices and bad mistakes. That’s what punishment is for. It will only get worse in 30 days. Half the criminals getting released onto the streets. More arrests, more murders, more home break ins, more force, more court. I predict an increase in police shootings as well. It’s already happening in LA and numerous 2 strikers are coming out and would rather die than 3rd strike and die in jail.

    Rough times ahead. Feel and for the kids.

  358. #360 by Justice for ALL on September 28, 2011

    Some of them may be, if not handled correctly; however, they need, and deserve, to be helped, not murdered.

    Hospitals are able to care for them WITHOUT murdering them. It IS possible to de-escalate situations and restrain, without murdering them. Cops just haven’t quite been able to figure that out yet.

    Cops see a garden hose nozzle, a stick, waterbottle, or a bat, and use that as a reason to murder. It’s wrong. Look at Kelly’s situation; he was UNARMED. Cops are afraid of their own shadows and it is pathetic.

  359. #361 by Anonymous on September 28, 2011

    EyeNeverSayNo :
    “You can be happy about it like EyeNeverSayNo…”
    On the contrary, I have been clear in saying that while of course I would like to see all of the officers who failed to intervene or participated in the beating to have been charged– ADW with the GBH enhancement would have been satisfying– I understand that the evidence and the DA’s approach to the case do not allow for it.
    It’s easy to see that many here would like to have seen the all the officers charged as a form of punishment whether a conviction can be reasonably expected or not. Charging citizens with crimes as a form of punishment has historically been a favorite tactic of totalitarians and fascists. One of the things I love most about my country is that this is not how it works here. And I sure as hell hope it stays that way, and that cooler heads continue to prevail.

    I want them all treated the same way they treated Kelly UNLESS they turn themselves in and ask for forgiveness/leniency

    btw.. yes.. Jay Cincinelli is a SERIOUS THREAT to innocent human beings everywhere.. 25k bail was out of this galaxy laughable.. I don’t care if maybe he wasn’t a flight risk JAY CINCINELLI IS A MURDERER.. moreso than the fat guy

  360. #362 by Reality Is on September 28, 2011

    True. As you know and as Ron Thomas has made clear, some are beyond help. Kelly was beyond help.

    You act like they are all getting murdered.  One murder out of how many restrained and/or helped? Good averages but should be zero murdered.

    Without knowing much, you are right. Nozzle incident all cops shoot and I bet 80% of citizens. If I put u through the same scenario on a shoot don’t shoot machine, you will shoot. Easy to Monday morning quarterback everything but reality is that guy is dead if it played all over 1000 times. Yes, scared is what you call it. I call it going home. You can handle the ones where the nozzle or fake gun is real and you stand there with your finger saying drop the nozzle.

  361. #363 by Reality Is on September 28, 2011

    That’s bullshit they charge the fat Mexican guy only. Racist DA.

  362. #364 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 28, 2011

    Justice for All wrote: “The apologists, and their buddies in blue, can’t pay attention to the simplest details when writing a short paragraph, and they CERTAINLY can’t seem to be able to tell the difference…”

    Since we are on the subject, the phrase “they CERTAINLY can’t seem to be able to tell the difference” is rather redundant in that you don’t really add any information to the sentence with “to be able to.”

    Oh and ‘bulletproof’ is a one word adjective; slips by as two words in most spell checkers though.

    :)

  363. #365 by Justice for ALL on September 28, 2011

    Reality Is :True. As you know and as Ron Thomas has made clear, some are beyond help. Kelly was beyond help.
    You act like they are all getting murdered.  One murder out of how many restrained and/or helped? Good averages but should be zero murdered.
    Without knowing much, you are right. Nozzle incident all cops shoot and I bet 80% of citizens. If I put u through the same scenario on a shoot don’t shoot machine, you will shoot. Easy to Monday morning quarterback everything but reality is that guy is dead if it played all over 1000 times. Yes, scared is what you call it. I call it going home. You can handle the ones where the nozzle or fake gun is real and you stand there with your finger saying drop the nozzle.

    What on earth makes you think Kelly was beyond help?? Meds would have helped him tremendously. So, that is how you justify Kelly’s murder- by telling yourself that he was beyond help??

    YOU are truly the one who is “beyond help!” YOU are the reason that people DO NOT trust, or call, cops. You are unbelieveable.

    In the case of the nozzle incident, the cops never even told the guy that they were there observing him while he sat on his porch on his own private property!

    The guy they shot dead DIDN’T EVEN KNOW the cops were there watching him!! If the cops really thought he had a weapon, they weren’t even brave enough to say to the guy, “Drop your weapon!” (although “drop your garden nozzle” would have been much more appropriate!) No, the cops just shot him dead, without even announcing their presence. COWARDS!! not to mention INCOMPETENT IDIOTS and MURDERERS!!

    You can call it “going home” until you are blue in the face; I call it MURDER and COWARDICE.

  364. #366 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 28, 2011

    We’re not all against the police.

    We’re against those who abuse the public trust that has been put in their care.

    We’re against those, like the incident in San Jose a few years ago, where they were told the person in the house had mental issues, but the police rushed into his house and shot him to death because he was in his kitchen holding a veggie peeler.

    Since when is it against the law to peel veggies?

  365. #367 by STAND UP on September 28, 2011

    FIRST (shouting like a 5year old)

  366. #368 by STAND UP on September 28, 2011

    mcdickly looks like total dick.
    the ugliest creature I have ever seen

  367. #369 by Reality Is on September 28, 2011

    So the family tries everything and gives up completely, but someone else could help? I see what you are saying but you can’t just 5150 someone for fun. Even if there was unlimited funds for care and lock down, it’s your right to roam free. He wanted that. So yea help might be there as you say, but it’s not the cops jobs to provide that.

    I didn’t justify shit. So stop changing my words. You are good at that. You like to read things as you want them to read. I just say what reality is. You don’t have to agree, but its true.

    Yes you might make yourself known so someone can shoot you. I wouldn’t. That’s probably why I do this job and you never will. You would be dead on day 1. But you would die trying.

    You want peace and love, so do I. Reality is peace and love is great but crime and violence seems to prevail. I’m going home each day. I’ll do the job as trained to do. You can second guess me to death. I’ll still never be found guilty of a policy violation or a law. Even though you would claim abuse or murder.

  368. #370 by Reality Is on September 28, 2011

    Can it kill you? I say to that why did the family call the police then? If harmless and veggie peeler is nothing then handle it as a family. Why call the cops?

  369. #371 by Reality Is on September 28, 2011

    Fullerton? Lol

    The District Attorney’s Office on Wednesday added felony embezzlement to the list of charges an Irwindale City Councilman and two former city officials face.

    Councilman Mark Breceda, 51, former finance director Abe De Dios, 66, and former councilwoman Rosemary Ramirez, 49, each face an additional count of embezzlement of public funds, according to Dave Demerjian, who heads the D.A.’s Public Integrity Unit.

    Public corruption prosecutors filed the embezzlement counts after defense attorneys argued in court Tuesday that the statute of limitations had expired on charges of misappropriating public funds.

    “We felt it was prudent to amend the complaint,” Demerjian said. “Embezzlement of public funds is the same as murder, it has no statue of limitations.”

    Embezzlement of public funds carries a maximum prison sentence of three years, he said. An arraignment has not yet been scheduled, according to the D.A.’s Office.

    Prosecutors are still pursuing the counts of misappropriating public funds, although defense attorney’s will resume their efforts to have the charges thrown out of court on Oct. 24, according to the D.A.s Office and court officials.

    The charges stem from lavish trips to New York taken by the city officials during which they treated themselves to Broadway shows and New York Yankees’ games on the taxpayers’ dime, according to the D.A.’s Office.

    More than $200,000 of public funds were spent on the trips. City officials say they were intended to secure a better bond rating for the city.

    Breceda, Ramirez and De Dios were initially charged in October 2010, just days before D.A. Steve Cooley’s failed bid for state attorney general came to a head at the polls.

    In court Tuesday, Demerjian took the stand and testified for five hours, answering questions that focused on the two-year lapse between when prosecutors first learned about the trips and when they decided to investigate them, Demerjian said.

    A complaint was initially sent to the D.A.’s office in 2005, but it wasn’t until after a report in this newspaper detailed the expenses that an investigation was opened, Demerjian said.

    The newspaper report was included in one of two complaints the D.A.’s office received in 2007, Demerjian said.

    It wasn’t until those complaints came in that Demerjian said prosecutors felt they had enough facts to investigate the matter. They then spent the following three years investigating before charges were filed.

    Former City Manager Steve Blancarte was also charged in 2010, along with the other city officials. In July, he pleaded guilty to a single count of misappropriating public funds as part of a plea deal in which prosecutors dropped four additional felony counts.

    Blancarte was sentenced to three years of unsupervised probation and had to pay about $20,000 in fines and restitution, according to the D.A.’s Office.

    Blancarte’s lawyer, John Tyre, said health problems and the strain of attending court hearings caused the former city manager to take a plea deal.

    But, he said, there was a good a chance that Breceda, Ramirez and De Dios would have the charges of misappropriating public funds thrown out of court because prosecutors waited too long to act.

    thomas.himes@sgvn.com

    626-962-8811, ext. 2477

    San Gabriel Valley Tribune

  370. #372 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 29, 2011

    Jane H: “As I have thought and said from the very beginning: They (the top) encouraged this despicable behavior!”

    I would be fascinated to hear how you obtained such self-affirmation out of what you copied and pasted.

  371. #373 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    Do you want to know what was REALLY shockingly redundant??

    Answer: The amount of EXCESSIVE FORCE that was used to “restrain” Kelly Thomas, resulting in his brutal murder.

    BEATING an unarmed Kelly Thomas with a baton

    BASHING Kelly’s head into the curb

    PUTTING KELLY into a very dangerous, prone choke hold position, with several, very large cops sitting on top of Kelly for a prolonged period of time, which is KNOWN to cause death.

    KICKING, punching and BREAKING Kelly’s ribs- causing his broken ribs to puncture his lung and filling his lungs with blood.

    TASERING Kelly on his chest and backside REPEATEDLY, even though the Taser manufacturer specifically states NOT to use on the chest area, since it can cause heart attacks.

    FOUR FAT COPS dog piled on top of Kelly, suffocating him, beating him and Tasering him, while Kelly screamed “Sorry, Help, Help, Dad, God!”

    COPS holding Kelly down while he was being bludgeoned and Tased, while Kelly was screaming in agony and excruciating pain, and not able to breathe. Cops were holding down a dying man, preventing him from even protecting his own life- instead of helping him.

    COPS held Kelly down AFTER he was unconscious and cops watched while another cop did two full body weight knee drops on Kelly’s head and neck.

    COPS held Kelly down, after Kelly was already unconscious and unresponsive, while another cop administered eight vicious, bone crushing blows to the face.

    IF the ambulance hadn’t arrived; the cops would probably still be there, beating Kelly’s corpse into the ground.

  372. #374 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    Why call the cops???

    To SAFELY take the mentally ill person to the HOSPITAL so the LOVED ONE can get stabilized on his meds. NO FAMILY calls LE for assistance because they want LE to come and MURDER their loved one!!! (We could do that ourselves if that is what we wanted or intended!!)

    Now you know why LE is not only USELESS, they are also a MENACE and a DANGER to society!!

    NOW you know why we have good reason NOT TO TRUST you trigger happy, Taser happy, baton happy IGNORAMUSES!!

  373. #375 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    Even if the family gives up, or doesn’t know what to do, I DO expect a lot more professionalism from the cops. I DO expect the cops to be able to tell when someone needs to go to the hospital for a psych evaluation, and then SAFELY transport them there. I don’t think that’s too much to ask of “trained professionals” whose job it is to “protect and serve.”

    At the VERY LEAST, I expect the cops to know the difference between “restraining” someone and murdering them.

    And, I certainly expect cops to have enough honor and integrity and bravery, to NOT murder someone, who is sitting on the back porch on their own property, who is holding a garden nozzle- without at least giving the person fair warning of their intent to shoot.

  374. #376 by Jt on September 29, 2011

    Or a near-universal problem caused by authoritarianism.

  375. #377 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Holy shitballs!! You were there! I knew it! I think we found cop #7. I sure hope you have been interviewed by the DA and the FBI because your details are amazing. It was almost like you were the camera on the taser you know everything so specific and exact. What an asset you will be for trial and for Ronald.

    Justice for ALL :
    Do you want to know what was REALLY shockingly redundant??
    Answer: The amount of EXCESSIVE FORCE that was used to “restrain” Kelly Thomas, resulting in his brutal murder.
    BEATING an unarmed Kelly Thomas with a baton
    BASHING Kelly’s head into the curb
    PUTTING KELLY into a very dangerous, prone choke hold position, with several, very large cops sitting on top of Kelly for a prolonged period of time, which is KNOWN to cause death.
    KICKING, punching and BREAKING Kelly’s ribs- causing his broken ribs to puncture his lung and filling his lungs with blood.
    TASERING Kelly on his chest and backside REPEATEDLY, even though the Taser manufacturer specifically states NOT to use on the chest area, since it can cause heart attacks.
    FOUR FAT COPS dog piled on top of Kelly, suffocating him, beating him and Tasering him, while Kelly screamed “Sorry, Help, Help, Dad, God!”
    COPS holding Kelly down while he was being bludgeoned and Tased, while Kelly was screaming in agony and excruciating pain, and not able to breathe. Cops were holding down a dying man, preventing him from even protecting his own life- instead of helping him.
    COPS held Kelly down AFTER he was unconscious and cops watched while another cop did two full body weight knee drops on Kelly’s head and neck.
    COPS held Kelly down, after Kelly was already unconscious and unresponsive, while another cop administered eight vicious, bone crushing blows to the face.
    IF the ambulance hadn’t arrived; the cops would probably still be there, beating Kelly’s corpse into the ground.

  376. #378 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Oh ok. I always wondered why they called us. Let’s see, veggie peeler, harmless, not a danger, so let’s see I arrive, calm him down, and leave because there is nothing I can do because he doesn’t meet the criteria for 5150. Now what? Family can’t be scared right? Cause they called cause he’s harmless and they weren’t scared, they just wanted help. Ok. Got it.

  377. #379 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    Isn’t it just AMAZING what witnesses see with their own eyes?? And, isn’t it AMAZING what cameras and cell phones can record?? I know, it’s just so unbelieveable!! Who would have ever guessed that the cops wouldn’t be able to get away with it this time??

  378. #380 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    I understand your concerns.

    You know that I can’t take someone to get help? If the family says he won’t listen to us and he needs help, I can’t help them unless 3 specific criteria are met? And most times even when those 3 are met, they are evaluated for 72 hours and I see them in the same place in 3 days?

    Your request sounds simple but it’s very complex.

    Yes I agree on the murder part. We differ on the other parts though.

    Let’s change the facts a bit. Let’s say we get 10 calls from family and neighbors. This dude is crazy. He’s off his meds and he’s running around with a black gun. Pointing it at people and screaming. I’m rolling as fast as I can. When I step out of my car and he comes around the corner in the dark and points something at me, he’s dead. Sorry about that. Nozzle or not. He’s dead. Yes I know you would want something different but in that case their are no other options.

  379. #381 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    Reality Is :Oh ok. I always wondered why they called us. Let’s see, veggie peeler, harmless, not a danger, so let’s see I arrive, calm him down, and leave because there is nothing I can do because he doesn’t meet the criteria for 5150. Now what? Family can’t be scared right? Cause they called cause he’s harmless and they weren’t scared, they just wanted help. Ok. Got it.

    Oh, so by your logic, if he qualifies for a 5150, you murder him. But, if you calm him down, then he no longer qualifies for a 5150, and then you don’t get to murder him. Pure Genius. You don’t deserve to wear a badge.

  380. #382 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    The mentally ill person only needs to qualify in ONE of the three categories: a danger to self, a danger to others, or gravely disabled. NOT ALL THREE.

    It is usually not very difficult to find that someone is “gravely disabled” if he is not able to provide clothing, food or shelter for himself.

    If you think he is a “danger” to YOU, because he is waving a stick or a potato peeler around, then you should reasonably also be able to come to the conclusion that he might be “a danger to others,” and then SAFELY transport that person for a psych evaluation.

    It is not reasonable for you to decide NOT to transport because, “they will only be evaluated for 72 hours and I see them in the same place in 3 days.” That is a lame, lazy excuse!!

    How do you ever expect them to get help if you don’t give them the chance for medical treatment? Do you think someone who is mentally ill, and who has NO insight into their own illness, is going to walk themselves into a hospital for treatment??

    I’m so sorry if you have to do a little bit of extra paperwork and take the time to transport to the hospital, but THAT is what IS NEEDED.

  381. #383 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    Nothing even close?? In your dreams.

  382. #384 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    Yes, much better. Now, we’re getting somewhere.

  383. #385 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    True. True.

    You are right. I could take just about anyone for a 5150 under your guidelines. Yes I could use your guidelines all day. In a perfect world you are right. This is not a perfect world. Gravely disabled is not used as you describe. The only way your dream would work is if you had 5150 police and all they did is drive around and bring people to a huge facility for holds. You realize we can’t even find a bed for people that we do place holds on? So yea, if I wanted to push the limit on the criteria, which you want here but not in other situations, I could. I won’t though. Too many people out there each day with more of a need for help than food and clothing and a warm bed.

    Justice for ALL :
    The mentally ill person only needs to qualify in ONE of the three categories: a danger to self, a danger to others, or gravely disabled. NOT ALL THREE.
    It is usually not very difficult to find that someone is “gravely disabled” if he is not able to provide clothing, food or shelter for himself.
    If you think he is a “danger” to YOU, because he is waving a stick or a potato peeler around, then you should reasonably also be able to come to the conclusion that he might be “a danger to others,” and then SAFELY transport that person for a psych evaluation.
    It is not reasonable for you to decide NOT to transport because, “they will only be evaluated for 72 hours and I see them in the same place in 3 days.” That is a lame, lazy excuse!!
    How do you ever expect them to get help if you don’t give them the chance for medical treatment? Do you think someone who is mentally ill, and who has NO insight into their own illness, is going to walk themselves into a hospital for treatment??
    I’m so sorry if you have to do a little bit of extra paperwork and take the time to transport to the hospital, but THAT is what IS NEEDED.

  384. #386 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    We will see. I give 20% max of what you wrote as being true.

  385. #387 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Looks like Officer Ramos is out of jail. I’m sure that will make everyone happy. Another injustice. Now it should have been no bail! :-)

  386. #388 by nipsey on September 29, 2011

    See now you’re catching on, the old ‘they’re not as bad as something ridiculously awful so be happy’ trope.

    Let’s try one, None the three stooges are as bad as a serial killer, ergo they’re fine. OK!

  387. #389 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    True. I’ll buy that.

    My turn. None of these cops are murderers either, which means none will be found guilty of murder.

  388. #390 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    It’s not “my guideline,” it’s 5150 WIC. And, yes, “gravely disabled” is used as I describe, and as described in the the Welfare and Insitutions Code.

    If you are unwilling to transport the mentally ill person to the hospital, and you don’t believe it is important to get help for the mentally ill, as you stated, “I won’t though.” then, you are a huge part of the problem. It is officers like you, who make it so difficult, if not impossible, to get their loved ones the help they need.

    You would rather use your guns and Tasers, rather than safely transport to a hospital for a psych evaluation.

    WELFARE AND INSTITUTIONS CODE
    SECTION 5150-5157

    5150. When any person, as a result of mental disorder, is a danger
    to others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled, a peace
    officer, member of the attending staff, as defined by regulation, of
    an evaluation facility designated by the county, designated members
    of a mobile crisis team provided by Section 5651.7, or other
    professional person designated by the county may, upon probable
    cause, take, or cause to be taken, the person into custody and place
    him or her in a facility designated by the county and approved by the
    State Department of Mental Health as a facility for 72-hour
    treatment and evaluation.
    Such facility shall require an application in writing stating the
    circumstances under which the person’s condition was called to the
    attention of the officer, member of the attending staff, or
    professional person, and stating that the officer, member of the
    attending staff, or professional person has probable cause to believe
    that the person is, as a result of mental disorder, a danger to
    others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled. If the
    probable cause is based on the statement of a person other than the
    officer, member of the attending staff, or professional person, such
    person shall be liable in a civil action for intentionally giving a
    statement which he or she knows to be false.

    5150.05. (a) When determining if probable cause exists to take a
    person into custody, or cause a person to be taken into custody,
    pursuant to Section 5150, any person who is authorized to take that
    person, or cause that person to be taken, into custody pursuant to
    that section shall consider available relevant information about the
    historical course of the person’s mental disorder if the authorized
    person determines that the information has a reasonable bearing on
    the determination as to whether the person is a danger to others, or
    to himself or herself, or is gravely disabled as a result of the
    mental disorder.
    (b) For purposes of this section, “information about the
    historical course of the person’s mental disorder” includes evidence
    presented by the person who has provided or is providing mental
    health or related support services to the person subject to a
    determination described in subdivision (a), evidence presented by one
    or more members of the family of that person, and evidence presented
    by the person subject to a determination described in subdivision
    (a) or anyone designated by that person.
    (c) If the probable cause in subdivision (a) is based on the
    statement of a person other than the one authorized to take the
    person into custody pursuant to Section 5150, a member of the
    attending staff, or a professional person, the person making the
    statement shall be liable in a civil action for intentionally giving
    any statement that he or she knows to be false.
    (d) This section shall not be applied to limit the application of
    Section 5328.

    5150.1. No peace officer seeking to transport, or having
    transported, a person to a designated facility for assessment under
    Section 5150, shall be instructed by mental health personnel to take
    the person to, or keep the person at, a jail solely because of the
    unavailability of an acute bed, nor shall the peace officer be
    forbidden to transport the person directly to the designated
    facility. No mental health employee from any county, state, city, or
    any private agency providing Short-Doyle psychiatric emergency
    services shall interfere with a peace officer performing duties under
    Section 5150 by preventing the peace officer from entering a
    designated facility with the person to be assessed, nor shall any
    employee of such an agency require the peace officer to remove the
    person without assessment as a condition of allowing the peace
    officer to depart.
    “Peace officer” for the purposes of this section also means a
    jailer seeking to transport or transporting a person in custody to a
    designated facility for assessment consistent with Section 4011.6 or
    4011.8 of the Penal Code and Section 5150.

    5150.2. In each county whenever a peace officer has transported a
    person to a designated facility for assessment under Section 5150,
    that officer shall be detained no longer than the time necessary to
    complete documentation of the factual basis of the detention under
    Section 5150 and a safe and orderly transfer of physical custody of
    the person. The documentation shall include detailed information
    regarding the factual circumstances and observations constituting
    probable cause for the peace officer to believe that the individual
    required psychiatric evaluation under the standards of Section 5105.
    Each county shall establish disposition procedures and guidelines
    with local law enforcement agencies as necessary to relate to persons
    not admitted for evaluation and treatment and who decline
    alternative mental health services and to relate to the safe and
    orderly transfer of physical custody of persons under Section 5150,
    including those who have a criminal detention pending.

    5150.3. Whenever any person presented for evaluation at a facility
    designated under Section 5150 is found to be in need of mental health
    services, but is not admitted to the facility, all available
    alternative services provided for pursuant to Section 5151 shall be
    offered as determined by the county mental health director.

    5150.4. “Assessment” for the purposes of this article, means the
    determination of whether a person shall be evaluated and treated
    pursuant to Section 5150.

    5151. If the facility for 72-hour treatment and evaluation admits
    the person, it may detain him or her for evaluation and treatment for
    a period not to exceed 72 hours. Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays
    may be excluded from the 72-hour period if the Department of Mental
    Health certifies for each facility that evaluation and treatment
    services cannot reasonably be made available on those days. The
    certification by the department is subject to renewal every two
    years. The department shall adopt regulations defining criteria for
    determining whether a facility can reasonably be expected to make
    evaluation and treatment services available on Saturdays, Sundays,
    and holidays.
    Prior to admitting a person to the facility for 72-hour treatment
    and evaluation pursuant to Section 5150, the professional person in
    charge of the facility or his or her designee shall assess the
    individual in person to determine the appropriateness of the
    involuntary detention.
    If in the judgment of the professional person in charge of the
    facility providing evaluation and treatment, or his or her designee,
    the person can be properly served without being detained, he or she
    shall be provided evaluation, crisis intervention, or other inpatient
    or outpatient services on a voluntary basis.
    Nothing in this section shall be interpreted to prevent a peace
    officer from delivering individuals to a designated facility for
    assessment under Section 5150. Furthermore, the preadmission
    assessment requirement of this section shall not be interpreted to
    require peace officers to perform any additional duties other than
    those specified in Sections 5150.1 and 5150.2.

    5152. (a) Each person admitted to a facility for 72-hour treatment
    and evaluation under the provisions of this article shall receive an
    evaluation as soon as possible after he or she is admitted and shall
    receive whatever treatment and care his or her condition requires for
    the full period that he or she is held. The person shall be
    released before 72 hours have elapsed only if the psychiatrist
    directly responsible for the person’s treatment believes, as a result
    of the psychiatrist’s personal observations, that the person no
    longer requires evaluation or treatment. However, in those
    situations in which both a psychiatrist and psychologist have
    personally evaluated or examined a person who is placed under a
    72-hour hold and there is a collaborative treatment relationship
    between the psychiatrist and psychologist, either the psychiatrist or
    psychologist may authorize the release of the person from the hold,
    but only after they have consulted with one another. In the event of
    a clinical or professional disagreement regarding the early release
    of a person who has been placed under a 72-hour hold, the hold shall
    be maintained unless the facility’s medical director overrules the
    decision of the psychiatrist or psychologist opposing the release.
    Both the psychiatrist and psychologist shall enter their findings,
    concerns, or objections into the person’s medical record. If any
    other professional person who is authorized to release the person
    believes the person should be released before 72 hours have elapsed,
    and the psychiatrist directly responsible for the person’s treatment
    objects, the matter shall be referred to the medical director of the
    facility for the final decision. However, if the medical director is
    not a psychiatrist, he or she shall appoint a designee who is a
    psychiatrist. If the matter is referred, the person shall be
    released before 72 hours have elapsed only if the psychiatrist making
    the final decision believes, as a result of the psychiatrist’s
    personal observations, that the person no longer requires evaluation
    or treatment.
    (b) Any person who has been detained for evaluation and treatment
    shall be released, referred for further care and treatment on a
    voluntary basis, or certified for intensive treatment, or a
    conservator or temporary conservator shall be appointed pursuant to
    this part as required.
    (c) A person designated by the mental health facility shall give
    to any person who has been detained at that facility for evaluation
    and treatment and who is receiving medication as a result of his or
    her mental illness, as soon as possible after detention, written and
    oral information about the probable effects and possible side effects
    of the medication. The State Department of Mental Health shall
    develop and promulgate written materials on the effects of
    medications, for use by county mental health programs as disseminated
    or as modified by the county mental health program, addressing the
    probable effects and the possible side effects of the medication.
    The following information shall be given orally to the patient:
    (1) The nature of the mental illness, or behavior, that is the
    reason the medication is being given or recommended.
    (2) The likelihood of improving or not improving without the
    medication.
    (3) Reasonable alternative treatments available.
    (4) The name and type, frequency, amount, and method of dispensing
    the medication, and the probable length of time the medication will
    be taken.
    The fact that the information has or has not been given shall be
    indicated in the patient’s chart. If the information has not been
    given, the designated person shall document in the patient’s chart
    the justification for not providing the information. A failure to
    give information about the probable effects and possible side effects
    of the medication shall not constitute new grounds for release.
    (d) The amendments to this section made by Assembly Bill 348 of
    the 2003-04 Regular Session shall not be construed to revise or
    expand the scope of practice of psychologists, as defined in Chapter
    6.6 (commencing with Section 2900) of Division 2 of the Business and
    Professions Code.

    5152.1. The professional person in charge of the facility providing
    72-hour evaluation and treatment, or his or her designee, shall
    notify the county mental health director or the director’s designee
    and the peace officer who makes the written application pursuant to
    Section 5150 or a person who is designated by the law enforcement
    agency that employs the peace officer, when the person has been
    released after 72-hour detention, when the person is not detained, or
    when the person is released before the full period of allowable
    72-hour detention if all of the following conditions apply:
    (a) The peace officer requests such notification at the time he or
    she makes the application and the peace officer certifies at that
    time in writing that the person has been referred to the facility
    under circumstances which, based upon an allegation of facts
    regarding actions witnessed by the officer or another person, would
    support the filing of a criminal complaint.
    (b) The notice is limited to the person’s name, address, date of
    admission for 72-hour evaluation and treatment, and date of release.
    If a police officer, law enforcement agency, or designee of the
    law enforcement agency, possesses any record of information obtained
    pursuant to the notification requirements of this section, the
    officer, agency, or designee shall destroy that record two years
    after receipt of notification.

    5152.2. Each law enforcement agency within a county shall arrange
    with the county mental health director a method for giving prompt
    notification to peace officers pursuant to Section 5152.1.

    5153. Whenever possible, officers charged with apprehension of
    persons pursuant to this article shall dress in plain clothes and
    travel in unmarked vehicles.

    5154. (a) Notwithstanding Section 5113, if the provisions of
    Section 5152 have been met, the professional person in charge of the
    facility providing 72-hour treatment and evaluation, his or her
    designee, the medical director of the facility or his or her designee
    described in Section 5152, the psychiatrist directly responsible for
    the person’s treatment, or the psychologist shall not be held
    civilly or criminally liable for any action by a person released
    before the end of 72 hours pursuant to this article.
    (b) The professional person in charge of the facility providing
    72-hour treatment and evaluation, his or her designee, the medical
    director of the facility or his or her designee described in Section
    5152, the psychiatrist directly responsible for the person’s
    treatment, or the psychologist shall not be held civilly or
    criminally liable for any action by a person released at the end of
    the 72 hours pursuant to this article.
    (c) The peace officer responsible for the detainment of the person
    shall not be civilly or criminally liable for any action by a person
    released at or before the end of the 72 hours pursuant to this
    article.
    (d) The amendments to this section made by Assembly Bill 348 of
    the 2003-04 Regular Session shall not be construed to revise or
    expand the scope of practice of psychologists, as defined in Chapter
    6.6 (commencing with Section 2900) of Division 2 of the Business and
    Professions Code.

    5155. Nothing in this part shall be construed as granting authority
    to local entities to issue licenses supplementary to existing state
    and local licensing laws.

    5156. At the time a person is taken into custody for evaluation, or
    within a reasonable time thereafter, unless a responsible relative
    or the guardian or conservator of the person is in possession of the
    person’s personal property, the person taking him into custody shall
    take reasonable precautions to preserve and safeguard the personal
    property in the possession of or on the premises occupied by the
    person. The person taking him into custody shall then furnish to the
    court a report generally describing the person’s property so
    preserved and safeguarded and its disposition, in substantially the
    form set forth in Section 5211; except that if a responsible relative
    or the guardian or conservator of the person is in possession of the
    person’s property, the report shall include only the name of the
    relative or guardian or conservator and the location of the property,
    whereupon responsibility of the person taking him into custody for
    such property shall terminate.
    As used in this section, “responsible relative” includes the
    spouse, parent, adult child, or adult brother or sister of the
    person, except that it does not include the person who applied for
    the petition under this article.

    5157. (a) Each person, at the time he or she is first taken into
    custody under provisions of Section 5150, shall be provided, by the
    person who takes such other person into custody, the following
    information orally. The information shall be in substantially the
    following form:

    My name is ____________________________________________.
    I am a ________________________________________________.
    (peace officer, mental health professional)
    with __________________________________________________.
    (name of agency)
    You are not under criminal arrest, but I am taking you
    for examination by mental health professionals at _____
    _______________________________________________________.
    (name of facility)
    You will be told your rights by the mental health staff.
    If taken into custody at his or her residence, the
    person shall also be told the following information in
    substantially the following form:
    You may bring a few personal items with you which I
    will have to approve. You can make a phone call and/or
    leave a note to tell your friends and/or family where
    you have been taken.
    (b) The designated facility shall keep, for each patient
    evaluated, a record of the advisement given pursuant to subdivision
    (a) which shall include:
    (1) Name of person detained for evaluation.
    (2) Name and position of peace officer or mental health
    professional taking person into custody.
    (3) Date.
    (4) Whether advisement was completed.
    (5) If not given or completed, the mental health professional at
    the facility shall either provide the information specified in
    subdivision (a), or include a statement of good cause, as defined by
    regulations of the State Department of Mental Health, which shall be
    kept with the patient’s medical record.
    (c) Each person admitted to a designated facility for 72-hour
    evaluation and treatment shall be given the following information by
    admission staff at the evaluation unit. The information shall be
    given orally and in writing and in a language or modality accessible
    to the person. The written information shall be available in the
    person’s native language or the language which is the person’s
    principal means of communication. The information shall be in
    substantially the following form:

    My name is ____________________________________________________.
    My position here is ___________________________________________.

    You are being placed into the psychiatric unit because it is
    our professional opinion that as a result of mental disorder,
    you are likely to:
    (check applicable)
    harm yourself ____
    harm someone else ____
    be unable to take care of your own
    food, clothing, and housing needs ____
    We feel this is true because
    ________________________________________________________________
    (herewith a listing of the facts upon which the
    allegation of dangerous or gravely disabled due
    to mental disorder is based, including pertinent
    facts arising from the admission interview.)
    You will be held on the ward for a period up to 72 hours.
    This does not include weekends or holidays.
    Your 72-hour period will begin ________________________________
    (day and time.)
    During these 72 hours you will be evaluated by the hospital
    staff, and you may be given treatment, including medications.
    It is possible for you to be released before the end of the 72
    hours. But if the staff decides that you need continued treat-
    ment you can be held for a longer period of time. If you are
    held longer than 72 hours you have the right to a lawyer and a
    qualified interpreter and a hearing before a judge. If you are
    unable to pay for the lawyer, then one will be provided free.
    (d) For each patient admitted for 72-hour evaluation and
    treatment, the facility shall keep with the patient’s medical record
    a record of the advisement given pursuant to subdivision (c) which
    shall include:
    (1) Name of person performing advisement.
    (2) Date.
    (3) Whether advisement was completed.
    (4) If not completed, a statement of good cause.
    If the advisement was not completed at admission, the advisement
    process shall be continued on the ward until completed. A record of
    the matters prescribed by subdivisions (a), (b), and (c) shall be
    kept with the patient’s medical record.

  389. #391 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Wow I haven’t heard the GED word here for a few weeks. That must be like a donut joke lol

  390. #392 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Just telling you what reality is. You don’t have to like it or agree, but it’s how we were taught by professional pychs. We do a hold based on how they taught us, because they make the ultimate decision on everything after that. I took a 95 year old lady for gravely disabled the other day. First one in 10 years at least. Found her in her house on the ground after 3 days, shit n piss all over herself. Yes that’s gravely disabled.

  391. #393 by Hog Wild on September 29, 2011

    I believe it is important that we post over and over again how Ron Thomas killed his own son with neglect. Maybe if Kelly had not been so hungry he would have had the strength to fight back a little more.

  392. #394 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Never thought of that. :-)

  393. #395 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    I think your comments are VERY illuminating, to say the least; now everyone can read for themselves just how completely useless, and DANGEROUS, you, and your shoot em up blue buddies, really are.

    Why don’t you just go and eat some more donuts or pancakes; after all, you won’t need to help another 95 year old lady for at least another 10 years!!

    Oh, and don’t forget to clean the blood off of all your weapons. On second thought, why even bother to clean the blood off, after all, you’ll just get blood on them again in another minute or so anyway.

  394. #396 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 29, 2011

    Maybe you should look for different work?

    How about CPA?

  395. #397 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Sometimes it’s good for you to learn about professions you know nothing about. I can sit home and say I could play quarterback much better than any of those guys in the NFL. I would run there, and throw there, and they all suck. Easy to do. You do a good job as well knowing nothing about the reality of the job.

  396. #398 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    I have a bachelors in Business Administration, Accounting. Good idea. :)

  397. #399 by Jane H on September 29, 2011

    All you have to do is read the complaint. And it’s not self-affirming, just confirmation of what I feared to be the case.

    I would like to believe that it was rogue cops, but I fear it’s more than that.

  398. #400 by MeYou on September 29, 2011

    EyeNeverSayNo :
    Jane H: “As I have thought and said from the very beginning: They (the top) encouraged this despicable behavior!”
    I would be fascinated to hear how you obtained such self-affirmation out of what you copied and pasted.

    Well, how many times did he do it and not get disciplined for it?

    Notice DEPARTMENTWIDE DAR ABUSE

    3 of the 6 Police officers who murdered Kelly Thomas did not have their DAR’s turned on..

    No oversight whatsoever in the country club called Fullerton Police Headquarters

    Emmanuel Martinez (skinny 18yr old)
    Fullerton man set free mid-trial after 5 months in jail
    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/martinez-275505-gang-police.html
    “We have no desire to put anyone in custody who is not the right guy,” Goodrich said. “But mistakes are made sometimes.”

    ^^^^^^^^^ YOU and your department ARE A MISTAKE that needs corrected

    ———————–

    No oversight and Killer Cops set loose with no care for the citizens after their Commanding Officers reviewed the city video cameras that show they murdered a citizen in cold blood VIA A BRUTAL TORTURE SESSION

    Orange County is a cesspool of ABUSIVE COPS and a DA who will be punished by the FBI for his cowardice.

    SIX cops participated in the brutal murder by torture of Kelly Thomas but the DA made all the excuses in the world not to bring charges against 4 of them. He has no excuse whatsoever.. NONE!

    Do your job or step down if you do not have the courage or integrity to do what you know is right.

  399. #401 by MeYou on September 29, 2011

    Allen :
    You have way too much time on your hands.
    Tell you what Ms. Who ever you are.
    Go to Mexico – If you haven’t already. Force an encounter with the Mexican Authorities and pull your little stunts like you do with the police here in California. Maybe you can tell us what happens – if you ever make it back here.
    Looking forward to your response.
    My guess is it will be a similar response like those i recieved when I posed this question a couple of months ago.
    Oh, and try to minimize your explatives and
    stay on point.
    I challenge you

    Your challenge is the way of the mentally and emotionally challenged.

    You do not compare ilk like yourself to an even worse system and say.. “LOOK AT US.. we are better than them”

    NO.. you compare yourselves to those whom you aspire to be like.. not those you do not.

    Back under the bridge please

  400. #402 by MeYou on September 29, 2011

    Reality Is :
    Holy shitballs!! You were there! I knew it! I think we found cop #7. I sure hope you have been interviewed by the DA and the FBI because your details are amazing. It was almost like you were the camera on the taser you know everything so specific and exact. What an asset you will be for trial and for Ronald.

    Justice for ALL :
    Do you want to know what was REALLY shockingly redundant??
    Answer: The amount of EXCESSIVE FORCE that was used to “restrain” Kelly Thomas, resulting in his brutal murder.
    BEATING an unarmed Kelly Thomas with a baton
    BASHING Kelly’s head into the curb
    PUTTING KELLY into a very dangerous, prone choke hold position, with several, very large cops sitting on top of Kelly for a prolonged period of time, which is KNOWN to cause death.
    KICKING, punching and BREAKING Kelly’s ribs- causing his broken ribs to puncture his lung and filling his lungs with blood.
    TASERING Kelly on his chest and backside REPEATEDLY, even though the Taser manufacturer specifically states NOT to use on the chest area, since it can cause heart attacks.
    FOUR FAT COPS dog piled on top of Kelly, suffocating him, beating him and Tasering him, while Kelly screamed “Sorry, Help, Help, Dad, God!”
    COPS holding Kelly down while he was being bludgeoned and Tased, while Kelly was screaming in agony and excruciating pain, and not able to breathe. Cops were holding down a dying man, preventing him from even protecting his own life- instead of helping him.
    COPS held Kelly down AFTER he was unconscious and cops watched while another cop did two full body weight knee drops on Kelly’s head and neck.
    COPS held Kelly down, after Kelly was already unconscious and unresponsive, while another cop administered eight vicious, bone crushing blows to the face.
    IF the ambulance hadn’t arrived; the cops would probably still be there, beating Kelly’s corpse into the ground.

    too bad you aren’t even an asset to humanity

    Maybe you should keep up with things before inserting your foot.. As much as it is in your mouth I will diagnose you as having a foot fetish

    D.A.: One by one, officers piled on Thomas
    http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-318616-ramos-wolfe.htm

  401. #403 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 29, 2011

    (-;

    How do you do the happy face?

  402. #404 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 29, 2011

    Now, now children.

    Let’s all play nice in the sandbox.

    (Someone did change the sand after the other kids? Yes?)

  403. #405 by MeYou on September 29, 2011

    You have to feed cops a few homeless to murder every now and then or they will pick on your children or you

  404. #406 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 29, 2011

    “…it’s not self-affirming, just confirmation of what I feared to be the case.”

    Understand that when you post something which seems to confirm your pre-existing fear or opinion, that is an act of self-affirmation. Just sayin’… it’s not necessarily a bad thing, however you have to take an extra careful look at the info to make sure your own bias is not causing you confuse or misinterpret what you are posting.

    In this case you are confusing argument with evidence. Note the word ‘if’…

    “But the City may still be liable under § 1983 if,”

    Not also that the judge denied the plaintiff’s assertion of vicarious liability for punitive damages.

  405. #407 by fullerton lover on September 29, 2011

    This is litigation regarding the boondoggle that the city created for us, as well as these residents when they did the horse trail a couple of years back. This has already cost us all millions of dollars and the city still maintains their silence to all other Fullerton on the HUGE quagmire that they’ve created for all residents of Fullerton. It’s all very hush-hush now but when it does come to light, I can guarantee your NOT going to like what you see.

  406. #408 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    Reality Is :Sometimes it’s good for you to learn about professions you know nothing about. I can sit home and say I could play quarterback much better than any of those guys in the NFL. I would run there, and throw there, and they all suck. Easy to do. You do a good job as well knowing nothing about the reality of the job.

    You, and the rest of the apologists, don’t seem to have ANY problem AT ALL with quarterbacking the families, such as Ron Thomas, and the mentally ill people themselves. You just LOVE to blame the helpless victims, and their families, who are not able to do nearly as much as YOU COULD, if you weren’t so lazy and apathetic.

    You don’t care two cents about the public that you have sworn to “protect and serve.” It’s too bad you DON’T and WON’T uphold your duty.

    You’d rather bash and denigrate people, both verbally and physically, rather than be of any help to them- SUCH AS HELPING TO GET A MENTALLY ILL PERSON SAFELY TRANSPORTED TO A HOSPITAL FOR A PSYCH EVALUATION ON A 5150.

    Unless of course, such “help” involves using a gun to murder someone who happens to be holding a veggie peeler, or waving a stick, or a garden hose nozzle, or a dumb bell weight, or a bat, -but really, what cop even really worries about all of those excuses any more.

    We ALL know, very well, that you and your blue buddies consider an UNARMED person to be a perfectly acceptable target for torture and mayhem. And, if there is any chance for a prone choke hold pile on, or an opportunity for more “target practice,” or for a good old fashioned rib breaking, head bashing, kicking and beating- you’ll all come running with uncontrolled enthusiasm.

    But, if violence and abuse are NOT involved- fuhgetaboutit; you’d rather wait at the donut shop for the next ten years before you actually tried to help someone again.

    Reality Is stated:
    “Just telling you what reality is. You don’t have to like it or agree, but it’s how we were taught by professional pychs. We do a hold based on how they taught us, because they make the ultimate decision on everything after that. I took a 95 year old lady for gravely disabled the other day. First one in 10 years at least. Found her in her house on the ground after 3 days, shit n piss all over herself. Yes that’s gravely disabled.”

  407. #409 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    You should go back to accounting; you’re worthless as a cop.

  408. #410 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    Reality Is :We will see. I give 20% max of what you wrote as being true.

    I give less than half a percent of what you write as being true.

  409. #411 by Hm? on September 29, 2011

    Reality Is :
    Sometimes it’s good for you to learn about professions you know nothing about. I can sit home and say I could play quarterback much better than any of those guys in the NFL. I would run there, and throw there, and they all suck. Easy to do. You do a good job as well knowing nothing about the reality of the job.

    What is your take on this guy?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q1oDmANIXc&feature=relmfu

  410. #412 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Amen brudda amen.

  411. #413 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Cop is more fun :)

    Justice for ALL :
    You should go back to accounting; you’re worthless as a cop.

  412. #414 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Thanks. That’s more than I give you. :)

  413. #415 by Hm? on September 29, 2011

    Do you know how to grow food? Can you actually work with your hands? Watch this clip. I don’t want to believe it. any more than anyone else.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmTBnhOXufg&feature=related

    Word on the street is the russians were in a last ditch effort to control oil in afganistan right before the fall of the berlin wall. Rumor has it they ran out of oil.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAyHIOg5aHk

  414. #416 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    JFA=Xer is just a disgruntled anti government, anti law, anti police Nutball. You find them around here and there. Nothing anyone says will ever change their beliefs. They jump on bandwagons like this because they find friends, people with the same beliefs. It’s all good. They are fun to play dodgeball with.

  415. #417 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    re-write, re-write, re-write until you get a good story. That always works for you and your buddies.

  416. #418 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Oink?

  417. #419 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    Hardly. Only ANTI BADGE WEARING, ABUSIVE, SLEAZE BUCKET, SEX OFFENDING, THIEVING, LAZY, ENTITLED, MURDERING LIARS, who have taken a sworn oath to “protect and serve.”

    By the way, thanks for the flattery, but I am definitely not Xer.

  418. #420 by ivn on September 29, 2011

    anonymous group can’t hack for crap, but they are great at making phones ring with angry callers expressing outrage or just plain making it difficult for normal business to be conducted.

    I’m in no way suggesting that everyone here make it a point call these folks over at the soroptimist women.

    Domain ID:D149800129-LROR
    Domain Name:SOROPTIMISTBLH.ORG
    Created On:14-Nov-2007 19:16:53 UTC
    Last Updated On:03-Dec-2010 22:51:55 UTC
    Expiration Date:14-Nov-2011 19:16:53 UTC
    Sponsoring Registrar:NameSecure, L.L.C. (R58-LROR)
    Status:OK
    Registrant ID:ttm5NS1788316
    Registrant Name:Helen Butler Soroptimist Int’l of Brea/ La Habra
    Registrant Organization:Soroptimist Int’l of Brea/ La Habra
    Registrant Street1:P O Box 521
    Registrant Street2:
    Registrant Street3:
    Registrant City:Brea
    Registrant State/Province:CA
    Registrant Postal Code:92822-0521
    Registrant Country:US
    Registrant Phone:+1.7147739301
    Registrant Phone Ext.:
    Registrant FAX:
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    Registrant Email:info@butlergraphics.com
    Admin ID:piq6NS1788316
    Admin Name:Deborah Cantwell Soroptimist Int’l of Brea/ La Habra
    Admin Organization:Soroptimist Int’l of Brea/ La Habra
    Admin Street1:P O Box 521
    Admin Street2:
    Admin Street3:
    Admin City:Brea
    Admin State/Province:CA
    Admin Postal Code:92822-0521
    Admin Country:US
    Admin Phone:+1.1714494749
    Admin Phone Ext.:
    Admin FAX:
    Admin FAX Ext.:
    Admin Email:soroptimist@canprod.com
    Tech ID:51119393-NSI
    Tech Name:Dawn Fielder
    Tech Organization:Soroptimist Int’l of Brea/La Habra
    Tech Street1:PO Box 521
    Tech Street2:
    Tech Street3:
    Tech City:Brea
    Tech State/Province:CA
    Tech Postal Code:92822-0521
    Tech Country:US
    Tech Phone:+1.5626911256
    Tech Phone Ext.:
    Tech FAX:
    Tech FAX Ext.:
    Tech Email:sibrealahabra@gmail.com

    soroptimist.org
    Contact Us

    The headquarters office for Soroptimist International of the Americas is located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Headquarters provides many resources to the public and assists Soroptimists with their volunteer work. A directory is listed below to help site visitors better direct their inquiries, concerns, or suggestions. Staff can be reached via:

    Mail
    1709 Spruce Street
    Philadelphia, PA 19103-6103

    Phone/Fax
    Phone: 215-893-9000
    Fax: 215-893-5200

    If calling after regular business hours (Monday through Friday, 9:00 a.m.-5:00 p.m. EST), leave a voicemail message for an individual directly (by entering the appropriate extension or spelling the person’s first name) or in the general mailbox.

    Email
    General email: siahq@soroptimist.org. Use this email address for help with the following:

    Obtaining a club or member ID
    Paying dues and updating club rosters
    Change of address
    Best for Women subscriptions
    Ordering from the Soroptimist Store
    Technical problems with this website

    Registrant:
    Soroptimist
    1709 Spruce St
    Philadelphia, PA 19103
    US

    Domain Name: SOROPTIMIST.ORG

    Administrative Contact , Technical Contact :
    Soroptimist
    lubna@soroptimist.org
    1709 Spruce St
    Philadelphia, PA 19103
    US
    Phone: 215-893-9000
    Fax: 215-568-5200

  419. #421 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Oh ok. I see. Copy. Xer=Justice For All=God.

  420. #422 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    Reality IS=SATAN

  421. #423 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Satan is a pretty powerful dude. If I was satan, there wouldn’t be anyone typing in this blog anymore. LOL :)

    Justice for ALL :
    Reality IS=SATAN

  422. #424 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    God is even MORE powerful than Satan; however, He, nor I, would shut down this blog.

  423. #425 by ivn on September 29, 2011

    from the chiefs bio:

    Chief McKinley has been honored with an “Award for Excellence in Community Service” by the Mojave Chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution for his efforts to help teach women how to protect themselves from assailant

  424. #426 by ivn on September 29, 2011

    OK so no jury trial?

    A party moving (applying) for summary judgment is attempting to avoid the time and expense of a trial when the outcome is obvious. A party may also move for summary judgement in order to eliminate its risk of losing at trial, and possibly avoid having to go through discovery, by demonstrating to the judge, by sworn statements and documentary evidence, that there are no material issues of fact remaining to be tried. If there’s nothing for the jury to decide, then, the moving party asks rhetorically, why have a trial? The moving party will also attempt to persuade the court that the undisputed material facts require judgment to be entered in favor of the moving party. In many jurisdictions, a party moving for summary judgment takes the risk that, although the judge may agree there are no material issues of fact remaining for trial, the judge may also find that it is the non-moving party who is entitled to judgment as a matter of law.

  425. #427 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    Depends on what the MSJ says and what is left. I just had my case go to the MSJ and everything was thrown out except two small items. There was no way it was going to trial at that point so it was settled for nothing. just really depends on how the settlement hearings go, and how much money is on the line. Most judges won’t let trials into their courtrooms for peanuts.

  426. #428 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    Cops’ fun=excessive force, brutality, murder, sexual assault, perjury, falsifying/re-writing reports, lying, cover-ups, theft, planting evidence, tampering with evidence, intimidation, threats

  427. #429 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    I guess that would all be fun if it was legal and moral.

  428. #430 by Justice for ALL on September 29, 2011

    You “…guess that would all be fun…” ?? I’m so NOT even shocked.

  429. #431 by Jane H on September 29, 2011

    Heck yeah, I’m biased. I think everyone is to a certain extent. I have hunches, good perception and a lot of experience to back me up. It’s o.k. that I’m wrong sometimes. In this case, I wish I were. The problem here is that my hunches in this case have turned out to be true. The main reason is that I worked in Civil Service, and I know the good, bad and all the ugly.

    The entire FPD knew what happened, when it happened, immediately. I assure you that news travels fast in those organizations.

    I don’t post here that much, but lately I see the arguments going in circles, and just for fun it seems. No way can Kelly’s death be called anything but murder. Whether it was premeditated, or out-of-control cops who got caught up in the moment with the beating, it was still murder.

  430. #432 by We Are All One on September 29, 2011

    Reality Is :
    True. I’ll buy that.
    My turn. None of these cops are murderers either, which means none will be found guilty of murder.

    Oh no, they just beat the shit of him and killed him…that’s not murder – duh

    Hey everyone. You can can beat, torture and kill someone here in Fullerton and get away with it. But only if you wear a badge.

  431. #433 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 29, 2011

    Hey, hey, hey!!!

    Are we having a dialogue here or what?

    I don’t agree with all RI’s opinions, but I try to maintain at least a mid level sense of balance.

    I don’t think he’s worthless. I know for a fact he has at least a quarter in his pocket.

    (Joke – not satire.) (-:

  432. #434 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 29, 2011

    Justice for ALL :Hardly. Only ANTI BADGE WEARING, ABUSIVE, SLEAZE BUCKET, SEX OFFENDING, THIEVING, LAZY, ENTITLED, MURDERING LIARS, who have taken a sworn oath to “protect and serve.”
    By the way, thanks for the flattery, but I am definitely not Xer.

    Does everybody have to shout??

    It hurts my ears.

  433. #435 by Reality Is on September 29, 2011

    I had 50 cents but Ramos took it. :)

  434. #436 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 29, 2011

    ivn :from the chiefs bio:
    Chief McKinley has been honored with an “Award for Excellence in Community Service” by the Mojave Chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution for his efforts to help teach women how to protect themselves from assailant

    I’m confused.

    Does ‘assailant’ = some of the officers he hired?

    How does that go? Shutting the barn door after the horses are gone?

  435. #437 by Fullerton Business Owner on September 29, 2011

    There needs to be a class action suit against Barry Coffman and the FPOA.

  436. #438 by Fullerton Business Owner on September 29, 2011

    An aggressive lawyer needs to start up a class action suit against Barry Coffman and the FPOA.

  437. #439 by Ramoshit on September 29, 2011

    Fullerton Business Owner :
    An aggressive lawyer needs to start up a class action suit against Barry Coffman and the FPOA.

    You have a more of a chance of walking on water than finding a lawyer who won’t fuck his own client.

  438. #440 by fedupwithmorons on September 29, 2011

    ISSN 1935-0007
    Cite as: 2011 (10) AELE Mo. L. J. 101
    Civil Liability Law Section – October 2011 “Contempt of Cop”: Verbal Challenges, Disrespect, Arrests, And the First Amendment Contents
    • Introduction
    • Supreme Court Rulings
    • Broad freedom of expression
    • Fighting words, obstruction, or incitement to violence
    • Conclusion
    • Resources and References
     Introduction Under what circumstances, if at all, can police officers arrest citizens for “contempt of cop,” verbal challenges, profanity, or disrespect? Under what circumstances is criticism of police, even if couched in abusive or profane terms, constitutionally protected free speech? This article briefly looks at some key U.S. Supreme Court cases on the topic. It then examines lower court decisions in which a broad right of freedom of expression to criticize police was found. That is followed by a presentation of some cases in which courts have upheld arrests that were arguably speech-related because the arrestee‟s conduct crossed the line from pure advocacy of ideas to fighting words, active obstruction of officers, or incitement to imminent unlawful actions, including violence. At the end of the article, there is a short listing of relevant resources and references.
    302
     Supreme Court Rulings
    An important decision establishing a dividing line concerning what words alone can be criminalized is Brandenburg v. Ohio, #492, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), setting forth the legal standard that even advocacy of unlawful acts may not be criminally punished unless they amount to “incitement to imminent lawless action.” This was distinguished from “mere advocacy” of unlawful conduct, including violence. In Lewis v. City of New Orleans, #70-5323, 415 U.S. 130 (1974), a woman yelled obscenities and threats at an officer who had asked her husband to show his driver‟s license. She was convicted of violating an ordinance making it a crime “for any person wantonly to curse or revile or to use obscene or opprobrious language toward or with reference to any member of the city police while in the actual performance of his duty.” The U.S. Supreme Court held that such an ordinance was overbroad and vacated the conviction, commenting that “a properly trained officer may reasonably be expected to exercise a higher degree of restraint” than an average private person, and therefore be less likely “to respond belligerently” to fighting words.
    The leading modern U.S. Supreme Court case on the right of members of the public to express criticism of the police is Houston v. Hill, #86-243, 482 U.S. 451 (1987). In this case, a man shouted at police officers to try to divert their attention from his friend during a confrontation. He was then arrested for willfully interrupting an officer by verbal challenge during an investigation. The arresting officers claimed that this violated an ordinance making it unlawful to “to assault, strike or in any manner oppose, molest, abuse or interrupt any policeman in the execution of his duty.” The arrestee was acquitted of the charges, and sued, claiming that the ordinance was unconstitutional and violative of his First Amendment rights. The U.S. Supreme Court held that it was unconstitutionally overbroad and therefore invalid on its face. Taken literally, it criminalized a substantial amount of constitutionally protected speech, the Court stated. It further provided officers with unbridled discretion as to who to arrest for purported violations.
    303
    The Court found that the ordinance largely addressed speech rather than “core criminal conduct,” and focused on verbally interrupting an officer, rather than striking or assaulting him. Some speech, the Court acknowledged, can be prohibited, but the example it gave was that of “fighting words,” statements that “by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.” The ordinance was not narrowly tailored to prohibit only disorderly conduct or fighting words, but instead allowed officers to make arrests for words or acts that are “simply annoying or offensive.” “The freedom of individuals verbally to oppose or challenge police action without thereby risking arrest is one of the principal characteristics by which we distinguish a free nation from a police state,” the Court concluded. In a myriad of cases, the lower courts have applied these principles, allowing members of the public broad freedom of expression to criticize police, even very harshly, while drawing the line at speech, or speech joined with conduct, that involves the utterance of fighting words, active obstruction of officers performing their duties, or incitement to imminent acts of violence or other unlawful acts.  Broad freedom of expression Criticism of police officers, cursing at them, and even making disrespectful or profane gestures towards them, such as “giving them the finger” have been held to be protected First Amendment speech by many courts.
    In Kennedy v. City of Villa Hills, #09-6442, 2011 U.S. App. Lexis 5985 (6th Cir.), the court ruled that an officer who arrested a man for disorderly conduct after he called the officer an “SOB” and a “flat slob” was not entitled to qualified immunity from a federal civil rights claim. The arrestee‟s voice may not have been loud enough to be unreasonable, and the officer‟s decision to arrest him may have been motivated by retaliation against the arrestee for exercising his First Amendment rights.
    Similarly, in Duran v. City of Douglas, Arizona, #89-15236, 904 F.2d 1372 (9th Cir. 1990), a federal appeals court held that profanities and obscene gestures directed at a
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    police officer by a car passenger were speech and conduct protected by the First Amendment.
    See also Nichols v. Chacon, #99-5180, 110 F. Supp. 2d 1099 (W.D. Ark. 2000), in which a federal trial court ruled that a motorist‟s gesture of displaying his middle finger to an officer driving by was protected First Amendment speech. The officer was not entitled to qualified immunity and could be held liable for arresting the motorist for disorderly conduct.
    General criticism of police, even if expressed in abusive terms, is generally protected free speech. In Resek v. City of Huntington Beach, #01-56029, 41 Fed. Appx. 57 (9th Cir. 2002), the court found that a police officer did not act reasonably in arresting a man for shouting abusive comments at officers and answering them with sarcasm, which “amounted to no more than criticism of the police” and did not constitute either fighting words or incitement of others to imminent unlawful violence.
    See also, Johnson v. Campbell, #02-3580, 332 F.3d 199 (3rd Cir. 2003), in which a federal appeals court granted judgment as a matter of law to an African-American high school basketball coach arrested by a police officer solely for calling him a “son of a bitch.” The arrestee‟s statement did not constitute “fighting words,” and were therefore protected by the First Amendment.
    In Greene v. Barber, #01-1247, 310 F.3d 889 (6th Cir. 2002), the court held that an arrestee, in characterizing an officer as an “asshole,” did not say anything sufficient to place the statement outside the protection of the First Amendment as “fighting words.” Additionally, even if the officer had probable cause to make an arrest for violation of the city‟s civil disturbance ordinance, there would be no justification for the arrest if the officer actually was motivated by retaliation for the arrestee‟s statements prior to the arrest.
    In Gulliford v. Pierce County, #96-35614, 136 F.3d 1345 (9th Cir. 1998), cert. denied, 1998 U.S. Lexis 4989, the court ruled that verbal protests or challenges to the police are permitted, even if they knowingly hinder, delay or obstruct the police. The appeals court ruled that, to be criminal, the words must be fighting words.
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    Incitement of imminent lawless action was required in Spier v. Elaesser, #C-l-01-054, 267 F. Supp. 2d 806 (S.D. Ohio 2003), before First Amendment protection could be lost for harsh criticism of the police. The court found that an arrestee‟s chanting of words in protest of the police requirement that persons seeking to attend a protest rally submit to a pat down search, including “two, four, six, eight, fuck the police state,” was constitutionally protected speech under the First Amendment for which he could not face arrest for disorderly conduct in the absence of any evidence that his words presented a “clear and present danger” of a violent reaction by the crowd. The arresting officer, however, was entitled to qualified immunity from liability, since he believed that the arrestee was trying to incite the crowd, which had become disorderly the previous day.
    Mere distraction is insufficient for speech to constitute interference with or obstructing an officer. In DeRosa v. Sheriff of Collier County, Florida, #10-14046, 2011 U.S. App. Lexis 4057 (Unplub. 11th Cir.), after a deputy stopped her husband‟s car, in which she was a passenger, and ticketed him for failing to dim its high beam lights, a woman called 911 to express her fears of the deputy, who she described as “shaking, agitated, and nervous,” and requested that other officers meet the couple at a local gas station, because the deputy had activated his lights and siren and was following them. She had criticized him during the stop and been told to “shut up.” At the gas station, the deputy instructed another officer to arrest the woman for obstructing an officer without violence. The other officer did so, grabbing her arm as she climbed out of the vehicle, dragging her to his patrol car, pushing her against the hood to handcuff her, and then shoving her inside. A federal appeals court found that the deputy did not have probable cause to order the woman‟s arrest under these circumstances. Her criticisms of the deputy during and after the traffic stop, even if distracting, did not incite others against, interfere with, or impede the deputy from citing her husband for his traffic infraction.
    Similarly, in Copeland v. Locke, #09-2485, 613 F.3d 875 (8th Cir. 2010), a police chief was not entitled to summary judgment in a false arrest lawsuit filed by a man taken into custody for allegedly interfering with official police conduct. The record in the case showed that the arrestee cursed at and “distracted” the police chief, whose car was blocking access to his business. This conduct did indicate that the arrestee intended to
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    prevent the chief from completing the traffic stop he was engaged in, but purely expressive conduct, even if distracting, is protected under the First Amendment.
    Arrests based solely or largely on the content of speech critical of officers can lead to federal civil rights liability. In Lowe v. Spears, #07-1497, 2007 U.S. App. Lexis 29488 (Unpub. 4th Cir.), a police officer who allegedly arrested the plaintiff for criticizing him for writing tickets, rather than for illegal parking, was not entitled to qualified immunity in a lawsuit over alleged violation of First Amendment rights. The officer was writing parking tickets, and wrote one for the plaintiff, who tried to explain he was only parking on the sidewalk temporarily in front of his apartment building to unload, and that he was handicapped, with a handicap parking permit. When the plaintiff stepped into the building and warned his employees working at the apartment building that they should move their vehicles because the officer was writing tickets, the officer allegedly stated that he was “tired” of the plaintiff‟s “mouth,” so that the plaintiff was going to jail, grabbing him by the arm and attempting to pull him out of the building. Other officers arrived on the scene and told the officer to leave the plaintiff alone. Making an arrest that was based entirely on an arrestee‟s speech opposing or questioning police actions violated the First Amendment.  Fighting words, obstruction, or incitement to violence Courts have, however, upheld the right of officers to make arrests in numerous instances where free speech, harsh criticism, and mere advocacy crosses the line to become fighting words, active obstruction of officers, or incitement to imminent unlawful violence.
    The easiest cases, of course, are those in which speech is joined together with actions that together constitute an active threat to the officer. In Barnes v. Wright, #04-6288, 449 F.3d 709 (6th Cir. 2006), for instance, conservation officers had probable cause to seek prosecution of a man who allegedly pointed a gun at them after criticizing their job performance, and they were entitled to qualified immunity on his malicious prosecution and First Amendment retaliation claims, given that he was subsequently convicted on some of the charges he was indicted on based on their grand jury testimony.
    Even if the officer may have some hostility to views expressed by the arrestee, that will not establish a viable First Amendment claim when their actions provide probable cause
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    for an arrest. In Mims v. City of Eugene, #04-35042, 145 Fed. Appx. 194 (9th Cir. 2005), a woman arrested by an officer during a protest demonstration supporting a black radical convicted of murdering a police officer failed to show that her arrest was motivated by his hostility to the political views of the demonstrators, as required to support a claim for violation of the First Amendment. Instead, the evidence showed that he had probable cause to arrest her for stepping in front of him in order to prevent the arrest of another demonstrator, then fleeing, who had thrown a flaming object at him. The woman‟s actions caused the officer to collide with her, and both to fall to the ground, preventing him from apprehending the fleeing suspect.
    Less dramatic, but just as clear cut, speech can, under some circumstances, amount to conduct that obstructs officers‟ performance of their duty, making it essentially impossible to do their jobs. Illustrating this is King v. Ambs, #06-2054 519 F.3d 607 (6th 2008), in which a police officer was found to have probable cause to arrest a man for interfering with his criminal investigation by repeatedly telling his friend, the owner of a vehicle in which marijuana had been found, not to talk to the officer. The arrestee acted in a disorderly manner, and allegedly “spoke over” the officer‟s questions, interfering with the investigation. The officer did not violate either the Fourth or First Amendment, and the plaintiff‟s speech was not constitutionally protected. Additionally, the officer gave him a warning to be quiet prior to arresting him. The court also stated that, assuming that there was a constitutional violation of free speech rights, it was not clearly established, so the officer would still be entitled to qualified immunity.
    Despite the U.S. Supreme Court decisions discussed in the first section of this article, some criminal statutes and ordinances directed at speech critical of police have been upheld, provided that it is subject to a narrowing interpretation limiting its application to “fighting words.” See State v. Baker, #CA2002-11-286, 809 N.E.2d 67 (Ohio App. 12th Dist. 2004), ruling that a city ordinance creating an offense of knowing and willful “abusive or derogatory” conduct towards police officers was not a violation of an arrestee‟s First Amendment rights. It was not unconstitutionally overbroad, and the court could narrowly construe it to only prohibit “fighting words” which are unprotected speech. The appeals court upheld the conviction of an Ohio resident for referring to a police officer as a “real cock sucker.”
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    In accord is McDermott v. Royal, #09-3167, 613 F.3d 1192 (8th Cir. 2010), in which a woman claimed that her arrest and prosecution for obstructing police officers who were arresting her son violated her First Amendment rights. The trial court found that the ordinance, which criminalized obstructing or resisting officers, was facially overbroad, and enjoined its enforcement. Reversing, a federal appeals court found that the ordinance‟s use of the words “obstruct” and “resist” only covered physical acts or “fighting words,” and did not give officers unfettered discretion to arrest persons merely for engaging in speech that was critical or annoyed them.  Conclusion Making inappropriate arrests of individuals for “contempt of cop” in circumstances where courts will find their actions to be merely the exercise of their First Amendment rights of free speech can be counter-productive, both in terms of community relations and potential civil liability. On the other hand, the right of free speech, which is part of the law and guaranteed freedoms that law enforcement officers are sworn to protect, does not extend to the uttering of fighting words, the obstructing of or interfering with officers doing their duty, or the incitement of others to imminent lawless actions like violence or resisting arrest. Police departments should endeavor to provide officers with adequate training to give them the tools to understand and recognize the difference.  Resources The following are some useful resources related to the subject of this article. Contempt of Cop. Wikipedia article. First Amendment. Case summaries from AELE’s Law Enforcement Liability Reporter. “The Importance of Privacy, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties Protections in American Law Enforcement and Public Safety.” a training video developed by the U.S. Department of Justice‟s Global Justice Information Sharing Initiative‟s Criminal Intelligence Coordinating Council.
     Prior Relevant Monthly Law Journal Articles Funeral Protests and the First Amendment, 2011 (6) AELE Mo. L. J. 101

  439. #441 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 29, 2011

    Excellent presentation.

    I’ll only have to read it about 20 times to parse the split hairs. (-:

    From the first reading I get you can pretty much say what you like as long as what you say is not considered ‘fighting words’ or ‘words that are inciting violence.’ and/or combined with physically obstructive actions.

    Did I get that right?

  440. #442 by spotlight on September 29, 2011

    It is ironic that this Fullerton City Council member voted to create and pass a special ordinance aimed at Sex Offenders living and wanting to live in the city of Fullerton. Amazing isn’t it ? By the way the ordinance is unconstitutional. Fullerton wants to create an image that they do not tolerate any troubled people in their community. I guess there are to many within the cities government agencies and departments. So much more to come out in the open.These wolves in sheep’s clothing will do all they can to keep their jobs and power.

  441. #443 by Me on September 30, 2011

    Not true. In the least. Totally void of truth.

  442. #444 by Me on September 30, 2011

    Shoot, I commented on the wrong post. Sorry. This was NOT for you, Sunshine.

  443. #445 by steve g. on October 1, 2011

    Pat McKinley is also behind the 2 murderous cops and the 4 others who stood there and watched. He probably is behind the effort to collect $100,000 bail for his former employee Ramos the Coward, He is also a member of the fullerton rotary club, there is also former police on there board also, McKinley is a Dick and big union thug. He should be taken out of office. Waiting for you to reply CiCi

  444. #446 by and the list goes on and on on October 4, 2011

    He and Capt Hughes are part of the gang that went after people for honking.

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