Time For Real Justice. At Long Last.

If you’ve watched the now infamous video of six overfed Fullerton cops beating the life out of Kelly Thomas and then standing around joking as he gasped for his last breaths in the street, a few feet away, you will have probably felt some pretty raw feelings. Disgust, anger, fear, pity, and sorrow are what we have all experienced.

Upon calmer reflection we can use the video to start piecing together what really happened and what motivated our “officers.” The behavior of Joe Wolfe stands out as the most egregious and makes me wonder how in the world he escaped charges by the District Attorney. Many have already stated the obvious: that DA Tony Rackaukas’ supposition that Wolfe could not know what was happening right in front of him, a mere 15 feet away is patently ridiculous. But even if we accept the unlikely plausibility of this convenient surmise, one unalterable fact remains: Joe Wolfe assaulted Kelly Thomas. We have all watched Wolfe emerge into the video frame when Kelly raises his arms, palms outward in a submissive gesture. At this point it would have still been possible for the bloated, oafish cops to de-escalate this situation. But instead Joe Wolfe for some as yet disclosed reason attacked Kelly with his baton, and Manuel Ramos joined in the fun. The murder had begun. And Kelly Thomas, accused of nothing, cited for nothing, guilty of  nothing was entering his last ten minutes of his life.

I don’t know about you Friends, but the fact that Officer Joe Wolfe is not only walking free, but actually still getting a Fullerton paycheck makes me nauseous. The fact that my tax dollars are paying this thug’s salary makes me feel even sicker, and somewhat accountable, especially if I don’t do something about it. I’m sure I’m not alone.

Hell, if anyone were caught beating an animal in such manner as the way those goons treated a human being, they would be in prison.

So what do we do? Provide helpful suggestion in the comments thread.

A Step in the Right Direction Behind Closed Doors Bruce Whitaker Dick Jones Don Bankhead Fullerton City Council Patdown Pat McPension Repuglicanism Setting The Bar Low Sharon Quirk Something Wicked This Way Comes The Crime Beat The Culture of Corruption The Fullerton Recall Union Goons

174 thoughts on “Time For Real Justice. At Long Last.

      1. The recall is a good start but try to find out if there is a way to take their pensions. Hit these evil people where it hurts most, their wallet.

        We need to know who is over the FPD and who has the power to disband this evil organization. If the FPD is a union shop, bust the union.

        If Fullerton must file bankruptcy to dump the union and take the mac-pensions, then so be it.

        Then go after the individuals that were once over the FPD and their minions, legally, via civil suits (at the least) if possible. Destroy them financially and take their pensions.

  1. What are the names of the other six officers who get no press. I know you mentioned at least one other name, but do we have the name of all six? I would love to have that info. In case I happen to run in to one of them. Let them know how proud I am of them allowing this to occur while they stood by and watched. Blue code and all of that. nobody actually correcting one another on behavior. No stopping felony violations of human rights. nope.

  2. Elect a new city council, they appoint a new police chief with strict orders to investigate any cop who uses excessive force. Not sure how that retroactively gets Wolfe though if the DA doesn’t want to file charges.

    1. Wolfie is toast as a cop, regardless of what the DA does. Ditto Hampton, Blatney and Craig. Future mall cops or janitors.

    2. Any use of force should already be investigated. Policies dictate it. DOJ tracks the stats. It’s about having a good process in place consistent with the policies. I don’t see a problem with bad uses of force at FPD. There may be a problem with levels of discipline though.

      1. “There may be a problem with levels of discipline though.”

        You mean a possible harsher sentence for Manual Prison Labor and Jay Jailbird? That would be good discipline.

  3. I was watching the news this week and I saw an anchor named Chris Wolfe and the facial similarities are the same as Joe. And it made me start to wonder if that was a relative of his. And if so, that could possibly explain why he hasn’t been charged. Having a relative in the news media circuit would hold merit when it comes to blackmail. Keep his job and it keeps the FPD out of more public scrutiny. Because everyone who watches the video or reads the transcripts can put two and two together about how Wolfe is just as guilty as the other officers involved.

  4. Is this happening? I saw it on the City website
    Anyway this can be monitored?

    Gennaco’s IA report was presented to Acting Police Chief Dan Hughes. “In accordance with applicable personnel procedures, Acting Chief Hughes will be preparing any appropriate notices to affected members of the department,” Jones said.

  5. Either through the DA, or the FBI, these 3 guys are going to fold like a bad hand at a card game!

    What I would really like to know is, did these 3 guys know that Kelly was mentally ill? If they in fact knew that he was, and the PD has files on his mental state, then it just makes this atrocity that much more heinous!

  6. The system as it stands does not exist to mete out blind justice – and it certainly does not promote – equality under the law. The system is in place to control the ‘little people’ and to, for the most part, protect the ones in charge and those who carry their water. The cops carry the water for the ones in charge. Wolfe obviously should have been charged. He was an intrical part of the killing machine that offed Kelly Thomas. The video and audio makes that crystal clear. Why wasn’t he charged? I don’t know. I’m not an insider or privy to what happens behind closed doors. But the dots don’t connect. You know that and so do I. All I know is that it stinks to high heaven.

    Look, it’s not just Kelly Thomas. Look how they’ve covered their bases in the fatal shooting of Sgt. Manny Loggins in front of his two young daughters. IMO that was just as egregious as what happened to Kelly Thomas. Those 2 young girls are scarred emotionally for life. God help them. And we know how the facts of that case stunk too. It’s been months and the DA has not released his findings on that. Do you have any doubt that the cop who shot Loggins will be exonnerated of all wrongdoing by the internal probe??? I don’t.

    Recall that Westminster detective named Orban who kidnapped the waitress/mother that he didn’t even know as she got off work up north? What he was reported to have done to that poor woman makes me want to vomit. Abominable. Did you know that his trial is underway?? Have you read anything in the newspaper about it??? I haven’t. Why not??? It should be a huge story. There should be a daily report on it. But I guess the biased media has decided that it would wait until the very end of the trial since perhaps it does not want to report more bad news about the cops to the citizens – especially right after the Kelly Thomas video was released. Perhaps it wants to temper the PR damage to the cops. I bet if a regular non-cop citizen kidnapped that woman and did what Orban did to her it would be front page news.

    So please understand what the system is all about. Understand who it works for. When you begin to understand this it all starts to at least make sense. It doesn’t make it any less hideous – but understanding promotes awareness and rescues you from the agony of confusion.

      1. Oh, and there was a recent shooting of a kid in Rancho Santa Margarita by an OC deputy. The kid was apparently racing on his motorcycle and outran the cop. He made it home but the cop knew him from previous contact. The cop showed up at his home. The kid was apparently standing in his front yard. The cop said he reached toward his waistband so the cop plugged him 5 times. Of course, the kid had no gun or weapon on him. The cop has a problem though. The kid lived. He must be superman. And now there is a witness who disputes the cop’s story. The kid has already retained a lawyer and is suing. No doubt in my mind that cop will be exonnerated after the internal probe too. He’s probably back out on the street. Moral of the story: Don’t outrun a cop chasing you on a motorcycle. He will be mad at you.

        1. 9 out of 10 cops will do that today.
          Either if they’re alone or w/back up, they always state the suspect reached towards his waistband. That shit is getting old and deadly!!!

  7. Yes, absolutely, they ESCALATED the situation! The conversation was going well until Ramos puts on the gloves and communicates the bodily threat. He ESCALATED the situation via the threat.

  8. Boycott Fullerton Businesses? Not their fault.

    Stop paying my water bills? Bad idea…wouldn’t be able to flush my toilet.

    Stop paying my taxes? Go to jail.

    Speak at city council meeting? Now we’re talking.

  9. Its gonna suck for Ramos when he finally figures out that Wolfe was playing him like a fiddle and the DA offered him up as a sacrifice along with the blind brain damaged guy.

    Dumb ass got played.

    This is why it pays not to be a morally corrupt bastard.

    1. Yep. You nailed it. But I don’t think Ramos has even figured it out yet. Some morning he’ll wake up and all the sudden it will dawn on him “I’ve been hung out to dry by my buddies”. Then he’ll get mad. But it will be too late. The most he could hope for is a stacked jury. Ramos is the sacrificial swine here. That part is clear.

  10. DA didn’t won’t to indite all the cops at once at it would seem overwelming unprecidented to the public to have a whole line of cops standing in court.The chances of dismissal would have been better . His strategy could be to get the ball rolling the once the case is underway and the evidence is out he can indite Wolfe.

  11. Fullerton could do what Yorba Linda did, and contract with the OC Sheriff for law enforcement. Although Yorba Linda did not have their own PD, they are cancelling their contract with Brea PD in May of 2013. Perhaps a city council in Fullerton may want to do the same and disband the FPD rather than try to clean it up.

    1. “What happens if the recall passes?
      If a recall passes, the new Councilmembers will be sworn in at the first Council meeting after the Registrar has certified the election results, which can take up to 30 days. The new Councilmember will serve the term of the Councilmember they ran to replace.”
      http://fullertonvoter.com/special-election/

      Then the City system needs to be “Optimized” before they are assimilated into the new year.

      1. succeeds, look for the Three Bald Tires to give away the store at the second meeting in June and possibly the first in July.

        1. I\m not sure if I’m correct but I believe I saw it written that once you are recalled you can’t do anymore city business.

          1. succeeds, I hope you are right. In that case there could be no meetings since there would be no quorum.

  12. Lets get the protests fired back up. Grand Jury needs to step in since the DA hasnt. This whole thing is pure EVIL.

  13. It has only gotten THIS BAD because the citizens have allowed it to.
    These politicians WORK FOR US.
    They are accountable to US.
    Time to DRAW THE LINE!
    Accountability, OR ELSE!
    ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

  14. I understand that if back-up officers are responding code 3 to what they know as a combative suspect, then they are going to show up on scene all worked up. However, in this case, the responding officers must be charged with excessive force because it will show precedent that even though you are rolling up on a call, code 3, does not give you the right to use your taser and pound somebody’s face in. You still have to have some where-with-all of the situation and ATTEMPT to apprehend. And if you don’t, and you become abusive of your powers then you will be punished in a court of law. I don’t think one officer gave more than half an ounce of an attempt to apprehend Kelly. They all jumped in and got their “licks” in. Well with those officers responding like that, it can no longer be tolerated and they should be punished by abusing their powers. As an officer you not only have to control others but especially your own emotions.

    1. “The film The Dark Knight (2008) was a box office hit largely due to the popularity of the evil character. The Joker kills not in order to become richer, as do the other outlaws in the movie, but solely for the sport of it. His characterization as a psychopath is plausible: except perhaps for the unfortunate fact that most psychopaths are much harder to identify. They usually don’t look as repulsive and don’t act as obviously crazy as the Joker does. Yet, fundamentally, all psychopaths are evil jokers. Their idea of entertainment, and of a life well-spent, is duping and destroying others.”
      “… Just as it’s impossible for psychopaths to relate to what’s good about human nature—they see conscience, empathy and love it as weaknesses–it’s almost as difficult for most people to understand what motivates psychopaths to harm others…”
      http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/evil-jokers-with-the-dark-knight-and-other-psychopaths/

      Heath Ledger – Incredible Acting, The Joker
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8PxG5zvgOM

  15. we have the right to assemble, we have the right to free speech, we have the right to assemble and demand from OC DA Rakauckas charges be filed against Wolfe.

  16. Fire him now. Why should the current acting chief not do so immediately? Wolfe was obviously acting in an unprofessional way that either intentionally or not led to the death of a person who was in no way threatening the safety of the officers or anyone else on the scene. Why is he still employed by FPD.

    1. If they fired Wolfe for unprovoked brutality, they’d have to fire almost the entire patrol division. Yeah right. The Culture of Corruption isn’t going to clean up itself.

    2. Oh, no. Wolfie’s got his rights, you see.

      Kelly had rights, too, at least theoretically.

    3. Hughes is as deep into the ‘culture of corruption’ as all the rest of them are. His primary job is not to protect you or our fellow citziens. It’s to protect his boys on the force. Do you think for a second that he would have climbed to the top of the heap if his loyalty to the boys in blue was in any question or doubt? Come on, guys. Stay focused here.

  17. We are forgetting the other three “officers” who are guilty of pilling on. they are just as guilty of murder.

  18. Fullerton PD needs citizen oversight if city hall can’t or won’t do it. Let the citizen ride along program begin. Let’s put a regular citizen in every squad car. This will help regular citizens of Fullerton understand the challenges our officers face while patrolling our streets and at the same time it will serve as a constant reminder to them that they are being watched and held accountable by the people they work for, serve and protect.

  19. I suppose people can DEMAND that Wolfe be prosecuted, but unless the DA or the Fed’s believe that they can successfully prosecute, your demands are a pointless exercise in futility!

  20. Isn’t there at-will employment? If people of Fullerton don’t want to pay for Wolfe’s services as a police officer, they need to be able to fire him, and anyone covering for him.

    1. No cops are ever fired – even for the most heinous activities. Just look at Rincon. He was finally allowed to quit for some other infraction than sexually assaulting women in his patrol car.

      And there you have it. The Culture of Corruption is protected by all sorts of legal protections and interminable “process” for felons in uniform. Supplied by our politicians who’ve been bought and paid for by the cop union.

  21. I think that the community would have to put more political pressure on the DA in order to have him bring charges against Wolfe. I don’t know if you can recall a DA, but I think it would have to be something very drastic. Maybe people would have to protest for weeks on end like they did in the beginning.
    I would also encourage anyone to investigate in order to understand if there is any particular reason that the DA would protect Wolfe, i.e. is Wolfe involved as an important witness in another one of his cases right now. How many convictions could be overturned if Wolfe were charged and found guilty of a crime?

    1. IMHO the District Attorney is holding back on charging Wolfe for strategic reasons. Timing is everything.

      1. Thank you for your reply. It makes me feel a little better. It is not my intent to encourage anyone here to compromise a successful case, I was just responding to the blog topic.

  22. I spoke to two other police officers who I know on the force, and one who works in the office (non sworn) and the general concensus was “oh, they are actually really nice guys”, “oh, this doesnt happen very often”. Ummm, just a little bit of tolerance on the part of fellow officers and staff I would say. Any true group of respectable individuals are very intolerant of bad behavior. The bad hats, the bad apples get tossed brutally in a really proper group. Elite groups are tough on their own members, which keeps the group elite. This union mentality of “protect our own” is despicable.

  23. What are the best ways to put more pressure on the DA?
    I like PAUL’S idea about protesting at the DA office..
    Will any type of petition work in this case?
    Also, and just hear me out on this one, if all else fails: Vigilante Justice.
    I am actually SUPER surprised that there hasn’t been any crazy Vigilante retaliation already.. I’m not completely condoning it.. I’m just sayin..

    1. This whole thing is a test. The frog is in the pot and the water temperature is being gradually increased and as of late rapidly increased. In my opinion there is tremendously more brainpower and manpower going into the psyop than than into doing what is right. We shall see within 1 year. Dear God I pray that I am wrong.

      1. Thats funny SJ and I hear you TS, I agree 100%.
        I will just say this: We really should start being more vocal about the Wolfe problem. Really create some noise about it.. we should start using still pics from the video and plastering his quotes around town and the neighboring towns..Now that the video and transcripts are at our disposal, we should really use those tools.

  24. “Hell, if anyone were caught beating an animal in such manner as the way those goons treated a human being, they would be in prison.”

    The victim isn’t the problem here. It is the culprits. If they were just thugs, all six would be in jail I would think by the aiding and abetting laws. But since these six people are cops, they would have a better “defense” than anyone else. I mean look at there defense from the prelim trial. They are saying it was justified force and such. It would be even worse if these six officers beat on an animal, they would get away with it and no news/people would give a shit about it. As they would claim self defense more likely, end of story.

    “I don’t know about you Friends, but the fact that Officer Joe Wolfe is not only walking free, but actually still getting a Fullerton paycheck makes me nauseous. The fact that my tax dollars are paying this thug’s salary makes me feel even sicker, and somewhat accountable, especially if I don’t do something about it. I’m sure I’m not alone. So what do we do?”

    I don’t know what’s worse, that Wolfe may not be charged or the fact that he is still working as an officer.

    So to answer your question as to what we do, this is my opinion: Where the city council/FPD really failed was that there was no answers or the demand for one. If what the defense attorney is saying is true about necessary force was used, why didn’t they come out and say that and show it from the beginning? No, instead, they became silent, said nothing to justify what they did but made Kelly Thomas look like he was the bad guy. If that wasn’t a cover up then I don’t know what is.

    If we as the citizens of Fullerton want to make this right, we need to see what FPD’s polices are when it comes to the use of force, tactics,arrest procedures,etc., we need to see this police union contract between the city and FPD, especially about the police officer’s bill of rights. We need to figure out what the FPD policies are, what they abide by to see if it needs to be fixed,updated or such. Then hold them accountable to that. I say this because they can’t seem to police themselves and the council majority didn’t do anything so we should do it ourselves(do we have that right?). That is the kind of tranparency we need right now to fix it. That this does not happen again in Fullerton.

  25. Protesting in front of the DA’s office is somewhat of a good idea, the problem is you’ve got to do it during the DA’s working hours which are 9-5, Monday through Friday.
    It would be extremely difficult to get the numbers of protesters comperable to the amount that were there on SATURDAY’S in front of FPD.

  26. I am also not condoning Vigilante Justice, or lynching, but thugs in blue should understand there are 153 of them, and there are over 135,000 of Fullerton residents. What can’t go on has a tendency to stop…

  27. Friends of Fullerton’s Future, you need to get a twitter handle and get the word out there about the injustice and corruption of Fullerton Police Dept and that horrible rag Orange County Register. Get the word out there in twitterverse!

  28. Input to the Federal level can be applied by our Representative, Mr. ED ROYCE.
    This over bloated sack of crap should get a big response from his past support of McKinley by the Orange County Republican Women and all the other Womens’ clubs/groups that he panders for their support.

  29. You can analyse this and say this and say that. But these guys are walking in the end and laughing at us and back to good times jacking up the innocent.

  30. Its quite simple. The DA owes Joe Wolfe some slack for something he did for him. One hand washes another in politics. However, where is the FBI? They can charge after the initial charges are made. Where is our famous Attorney General Eric Holder? Or Kamela Harris? Are they alive?? What are they doing? All good questions to ask.

  31. Simmons :
    The recall is a good start but try to find out if there is a way to take their pensions. Hit these evil people where it hurts most, their wallet.
    We need to know who is over the FPD and who has the power to disband this evil organization. If the FPD is a union shop, bust the union.
    If Fullerton must file bankruptcy to dump the union and take the mac-pensions, then so be it.
    Then go after the individuals that were once over the FPD and their minions, legally, via civil suits (at the least) if possible. Destroy them financially and take their pensions.

    Can’t go after their pensions or hidden shakedown money.

    1. page 264
      Mental Illness Commitments
      418.3 OFFICER CONSIDERATIONS AND RESPONSIBILITIES
      Any officer responding to or handling a call involving a suspected mentally disabled
      individual or an involuntary mental illness commitment should consider utilizing the
      following as time and circumstances reasonably permit:
      (a) Any available information that might assist in determining the cause and nature of the
      mental illness or developmental disability.
      (b) Conflict resolution and de-escalation techniques.
      (c) Language that is appropriate for interacting with a mentally disabled person.
      (d) If circumstances permit, alternatives to deadly force.
      (e) Any available community resources that can assist in dealing with a mentally disabled
      individual.

      Ramos and Wolfe didn’t choose to do any of these.
      They knew it was Kelly Thomas. They certainly weren’t using language appropriately to communicate with him by asking him which language he speaks, and Wolfe saying he speaks other languages, then them repeatedly asking his name, the saying other first names.
      And we know (d) certainly was the last consideration and responsibility they had in mind

      1. So how long do you think they should of waited after Kelly was fucking with the officers for almost twenty minutes. There was nothing wrong with kelly to let the officers know he was mentally disable. He was just acting like a stupid street bum and giving the officers a hard time. He was lucky they put up with his shit for that long. If he would of given them his he would of been out of there in ten minutes. Bad choice!

        1. Kindly go to page 4 of the transcipt and Ramos says to Kelly, “seems like every day, we have to talk to you about something.”

          At this point, it is clear Ramos knows who Kelly is. If they talk to him everyday, they know who he is. If Ramos talks to him everyday and doesn’t know who he is, then Ramos has memory problems and probably shouldn’t be a cop.

          Kindly go to page 6, Ramos asks Kelly, “Kelly Thomas, isn’t it Kelly Thomas?”

          Kelly replies, “yeah.”

          Here is your admission Ramos knows who it is. If they are involved with him every day, or almost every day of Ramos’ shift, one could only hypothesize that they know of Kelly’s condition.

          At this point, the interaction is non-violent and Ramos and Wolfe know it is Kelly Thomas. The fact that they did not follow their Policy Manual in accordance with this code at this point in the interaction, leads one to believe that their intentions were not to abide by policy or to handcuff him without beating him to “hell.”

          1. Stop putting words in his mouth. He said in general the department not himself, have to come and shoo him away. He had no idea he was a psycho or who he was. Why would they waste their time on this idiot. They have better things to do. You people are pathetic and disperate.

  32. @truthseeker. Totally agree with your post earlier. Way more going on here than just an incident. The police are going brown shirt quite rapidlyon us. All in the name of homeland security.for our own good. Pathetic how anyone who rings that alarm bell gets shot down under the general banner of anti-American, or else “conspiracy theorist”.. Wake the freak up people. This is how it goes down. Bit by it. See where we are headed?? Yeah. THAT’S where we are headed. Police shoot you because they thought you were reaching for a gun. oops. No gun. Oh well. Co compresses your chest and sops you from breathing. U die. Ummmm maybe it was the doctors at st Jude’s who did it ?? Really?? Wanna blame the doctors now? It is so insane . Almost unbearable

  33. I saw the video, and OMG! Does anyone remember rodney king!!!! That dude got beaten. Fullerton cops used bad bad bad tactics and horrible words… But intent to beat and murder kelly?! No! If anyone used excessive force was that lapd one eyed dude. I found no reason to use the taser to bash kellys face. He should be charged with murder!!! I support the police. I do. Mainly cuz im not a criminal. I honestly believe that criminals and people who do shady stuff are against the police. Be truthful, pick a side already, good citizen or criminal?

  34. @simmons / jerry… What the heck are u talking about?!!! “evil” organiztion? What is this, middle earth!!!! Sad that politics have reached as far as destroying families just to help their buddies get elected into office and benifit off council decisions! People against the kelly thomas incident should help fullerton police for their community not destroy them! And honestly, cops do what they have to do and they did what they thought was right at the moment. If kelly would not uave got hit in the face by a taser this thing would have never exploded to where it has. And the video showed two fat cops on kelly, not six. Lets be honest. Come on people! The bad cops are gone, they finally got what they deserved. Now lets show support to the remaining cops who have never been involved in such an incident after all these years of service!

    1. I think you’ve been sucking too much pig cock, truth seeker. Open your eyes, cops are just an organized gang in better uniform. To them, it’s not about upholding the law and protecting citizens, it’s about business (like the rest of our judicial system). For every life they “help”, they destroy hundreds more (go spend some time in jail with other victims and you’ll know). Six cops have confirmed to be on the scene, all took part in the beat down, and not one of them did anything to prevent it. Whether one of them laid hands on Kelly or not, they are all still guilty for the sheer fact they turned a blind eye to it. Let me ask you, what would happen if I watched two of my buddies committing a murder and did nothing to prevent it? Without question, I’d be arrested on the spot for criminal negligence, unlike Ramos and friends, who got to go home to their comfy beds (and still collect a paycheck). Ramos also made it very clear, with his baton twirling and bogus orders, that he was intending to ruin Kelly’s shit that night. You keep talking about all these other “good cops” on the FPD. Well if they’re so good and had any integrity, they would’ve apprehend the rest of the murderers by now, or at least spill the beans on the constant corrupt bullshit that seems to keep happening at the FPD. Cops need to be keeping themselves accountable before they deserve any kind of “respect”.

      1. So Ramos twirling a baton or trying to get the bum to cooperate makes him a murder. Thomas was big mouth jerk that was playing stupid games with officers. When the officers got tired of putting up with him he tried to run.

          1. The fact that he was running away when they attacked him is further evidence that he was not, in fact, a threat to them. I still did not see that he had been arrested. They had plenty of opportunity to handcuff him when he was sitting passively on the ground as he was instructed to do but they did not do that.

    2. Are you serious? The pork butts that stood around and did nothing but watch the show are just as culpable as are those who pummeled Kelly to death-there were more than 2 that participated in this murder, and don’t forget the watch commander and his/her buddies that watched in real time but did nothing to stop it, the Chief of police who nutured this madness and all the little blue minions who knew about these fools but said nothing-some of these knights in white satin have been on the force for years, knew of the corrupt goings ons and what some of these arrogant, gods in blue were capable of but chose to keep quiet-these heros that you feel are so worthy of the community’s support should be in jail and would be if they weren’t hailed and protected as some special class, holy deity because they have a badge.

      1. Joe you aren’t bein realistic again. You know they all shouldn’t be charged and you know they never will even if Tony was the Mayor. Be realistic. Focus on the ones that might have touched him with a finger. You know someone standing there or even holding a leg will never and should never be charged with murder. Sober up.

  35. Sorry truth seeker, i didnt know u had the name. 81 & 82 comments are completed by me. Sorry girl!

  36. I am wondering if officer Wolfe is 50 or somewhere near it. At that point, he can retire and collect a pension, even if he is convicted of a crime. Civil judgments/assessments can not touch it either.
    And can someone tell me why civil rights cases have not been filed yet? Is there anyone from the FBI willing to comment on the situation?

  37. @mayorquirk…. Its not hard to learn court precedures and case law and federal civil rights. Google it. Fbi wont do a thing till after the state courts are done. Then they will, but i be only to the one eyed guy. Look up the united states constitution an tell me what cop violated what right? Plz take the time to read it before u comment. And look up crimes under the color of authority… That will help u. And dont forget the civil court lawsuit that im sure ron thomas will do. But against who is the question! All six? One eye? The mexican? The black? Will he donate the money or keep it? Will he sue for money? Who knows! Im tired of idiots commenting on things they dont know about. Unless ur a criminal and want anarchy in fullerton, then by all means, blog like crazy!

    1. Fullerton residents should be aware that each of the High Schools here in Fullerton, have full-time “School Resource Officers” whom are Fullerton Police officers paid out of Fullerton School District funds.

  38. I read with total dismay how the murder victim was referred to as a bum by one of the people commenting. What exactly makes the victim a bum? Well, that what unrepentant police officers call him. There is no remorse by any of the police departments…no shame to have been involved with such a horrific act for which two police officers are already indicted. I really don’t believe that there is any alternative except to fire the entire police department and start over. No man would be hired who has any, not even one, complaint. The bar for hiring is so low now that raising it to this kind of a level is simply not going to happen. Consider this: we eliminate the police department entirely. We already have the ability to protect our homes by the right to bear arms. We could even shoot people who murder our fellow citizens. What do we need with these…uh…police officers anyway?

    1. Why that would be anarchy Cristóbal. What would happen if some scary-looking teenager was on the street smoking a joint within 2000 yards of a parked school bus? Think of the children for God’s sake!

      1. I can tell you the difference between a homeless guy and a cop. The homeless guy costs the public hardly anything – some emergency room fees and shelter costs. Minimal.

        Cops cost us their big salaries, their pensions, all the unnecessary weapons they use, their cars, the cost of processing all the non-violent criminals they waste their time arresting, jails to hold them, court costs, prosecutor salaries, more prison and jail costs, and the psychic costs of having to deal with cops. Not to mention the lawsuits. Oh, did I mention the lawsuits?

        Yeah, I think that sums up the difference pretty well. Now you tell me, which one is the bigger parasite?

        1. Anybody can be a bum. Not everybody can be a cop. Be serious. Can you? You would never pass the psych test..psycho.

          1. You’re right. I would never pass the psycho test. I find inflicting physical pain on innocents just to show how much power I have unappealing. So I guess I wouldn’t qualify.

      2. Correct me if I’m wrong John Doe, however I believe that Jesus Christ was homeless, and he made all the difference in the world.

    2. You are insane. Try to find someone with an IQ of 50 that is able to be a cop. Cause that is who you will find out there now a days that havent gotten any complaints. Why dont you try to go to the police academys and see how many get thrown out. Starting with Ron Thomas. He was thrown out for being incompetent. And you think he is your hero.

      1. Yeah it’s so tough being a cop that a fat, 75llbs overweight slug and a one-eyed man can do it. And a thief like Major or Mejia; or a liar like Mater; or a brainless thug like Hampton. Or an inhumane cretin like Wolfe can do it. Oh, yeah. Let’s not forget that stellar example of cop-power Albert Rincon.

        Yes indeedy. That bar is set real, real high.

        1. Yeah bad choices..it happens in every police department. Look it up. There is always bad apples. But these guys didint know they were gonna have to deal with an uncooperate idiot with a big mouth and no regards for law enforcement.

          1. Well thanks to your buddies you now live in an entire town with no regard for law enforcement. Good job guys!

  39. It’s worth the trouble to just say what is obvious. If any of us citizens who witnessed this criminal beating and murder had been armed as we are constitutionally allowed to be, there would have been more than one killing that fateful night. Let’s go get the protection from this kind of thing that we are guaranteed by the constitution and simply stop this thing. There isn’t any jury within a thousand miles that would have convicted a fellow citizen for protecting his neighbor. WE CAN STOP THIS! LET’S DO IT! To read how the victim is scourged by using his constitutional guaranteed right to free speech as a basis for killing the victim makes any decent person sick. Is that one of the reasons that he was killed? By talking in the manner that he wanted to to the police officers present? Where are you men of this good town that you tire of defending what so many have died to give us. Get on your feet, get down there where your neighbors are and get this problem solved.

    1. Yeah that about sums it up..No respect. I was brought up to respect the police. You get respect if you give respect…Get a clue Cristobal.

      1. No. Cops need to respect the public they serve. We have no constitutional obligation to respect you. And in this town, we don’t.

        1. Yeah, thats the kind of attitude we have in this world. I pitty your kids. You are a great example. Good luck visiting them in jail.

  40. I would much rather have a scary looking teenager within 2000 yards of me and my family than any of you so-called police officers.(see comment 104) I am not aware of any of those scary teenagers beating one of our fellow citizens to death. If you think that I would hesitate even one second to have stopped that atrocity you are misunderstanding what all of us have been saying. We will stop this. WE WILL STOP THIS. You police officers will respect us. WE WILL STOP THIS!

  41. If a group of American soldiers beat an mentally ill person to death they would all go to jail. Our soldiers are armed and behave in a civilized manner. Why can’t our police department achieve that. The attack on the victim and his family tells all of us that pay the police officers salaries that it is time for all of the police department to go. From all that I read the Fullerton Police Department is like the Gestapo of Hitler’s Germany with absolutely no fear of it’s citizens. The Gestapo is gone because it couldn’t stand. The world would not let it stand.

  42. To the public’s best knowledge, Ron (comment 108) is an honorable man of immense integrity. His son was wrongfully murdered. He has calmly seen this thing through. How dare anyone attack him! It is probably his humanity that made him unsuitable for how the police department conducts it’s business. We all heard that young man calling for his father. We have all made ourselves that man’s father and WE WILL COME TO HIS ASSISTANCE. Anyone reading these comments can pick out the Fullerton Police Department advocates because their comments do not reflect the community attitudes and beliefs that it purportedly serves. That is the entire problem. The Fullerton Police Department does not reflect the values that Fullerton citizens have. What is required is very plain. It’s time for the police department to go.

    1. Ron Thomas is all about the money. He is holding out for more than what his ex-wife got today. She doesnt want justice for Kelly. She was just looking for money. Yeah, just give me the money for my emotional stress and you will never see me again. She just showed everyone in the world that she didnt care about her son. She couldnt wait for the results of this, she wanted the money before the City of Fullerton runs out or her ex-husband gets it all. One million dollars was all her son was worth. She wont get it all her attorney will get 1/3 of it. Rumor has it she is an alcoholic so it will be gone by the end of the year. Shame on you!!

      1. The wisdom of Randall aka John Doe. Geeze you’re a huge a-hole.
        Go hang upside down in the cave with your other buddies.

  43. John Doe says none of us could pass the IQ tests for being a cop. Hmm, then why are there so many GED cops who couldn’t complete regular high school on forces in California. Many cities have rules that you cannot go beyond Sgt if you have no college degree. This limits some from becoming leaders in the PD and instead they become leaders in the Union which represents rank and file officers.
    John Doe also says none of us could ever become police officers, its too demanding. How he knows the abilities of folks who post on this blog is beyond me. Maybe John Doe is clairvoyant and works for the Santa Barbara PD as their “Psych”?

  44. Why We Should Care About the Death of Kelly Thomas
    Posted: 05/14/2012 12:03 pm
    Christine Schanes

    “Question: In your press conference on September 21, 2011, you said that this case never had to happen.

    Rackauckas: That’s the absolute truth. This kind of thing should not have happened. There certainly was too much force. We cannot tolerate the police being bullies. It’s just not their job.

    Every day in the United States, there are over 600,000 men, women and children who are homeless. They are vulnerable and rely upon the police as much as housed people do for protection and safety. Perhaps the case of Kelly Thomas will help all of us remember this.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christine-schanes/kelly-thomas-beating_b_1508277.html

  45. Just curious in relation to OClover’s post, and I apologize if this has already been discussed but does Fullerton have a crisis intervention team or do officers have the option to take crisis intervention training? Also I admire so much what you are all doing to seek justice for Kelly. Wish I could be there to stand with you all but I’m doing what I can from my home in the Midwest. No justice no peace.

  46. Just wondering..just look in your backyard. I am sure there are problems there. You don’t have to come here to try to make a difference, cause you are not.

    1. Well you certainly make a difference wherever you go I’m sure JD, just by stinkin’ the place up with your bullshit! Cop Bitch Boy…

        1. We have the balls to stand up to all of you. Other wise you would be fight amongst each other. Keeps you on your toes.

  47. There will be no convictions.

    What juror would ever vote to convict? I wouldn’t, even though this was clear-cut murder by vicious thugs.

    Because these thugs would go after any juror that votes to convict. Any juror who votes to convict, will live in fear of his/her life, forever. (unless they left Fullerton, but even then, these goons probably stick together).

    Imagine you’re on of those jurors, and late at night, you get pulled over and see the flashing lights behind you. Nightmare.

      1. I hope you’re right.

        Ironically, regular people have more to fear from the police than the Mob. The Mob kills people for some specific reason, whilst cops just go around killing at random.

        The Mob would have never messed with Kelly Thomas.

        Armed goons bullying and killing people randomly is infinitely more terrifying.

    1. Nice try to scare potential jurors, but those kind of scare tactics sound awfully familiar….do you wear a badge by chance?

      1. Thats ridiculous, I want to see these pigs turned into bacon just as much as 99% of the country.

        I just think that the people here, getting their hopes up for a conviction (on watered down charges, no less) are going to be very disappointed. All they need is one scared juror – THIS is why cops are almost never convicted .

        Look at this recent case, where cops gave conflicting instructions to a man and then KILLED him for trying to obey the instructions (and the security video was “lost”):

        http://www.erikbscott.com/

        I want to humbly state that the courts will not provide you with the justice you are seeking. But if wishful thinking is your thing, by all means, go ahead.

        1. Sad to read that story and see the stats of shootings/killing ratio in Vegas. I visited that site and sad to see that the video was corrupted/lost.

          However, the tape is not lost in the Thomas case. Hopefully, jurors will not be as idiotic as the Carona case.

    2. Im quite sure any one who is stupid enough to touch the hair on the head or harrass a Kelly Thomas juror will be the one who will be looking over his/her shoulder forever.
      Imagine you’re one of those evil haters, and late one night you and your family or your mama get a visit by the feds.

        1. pigs harass and murder random people all the time. why should jurors be any different?

          you couldn’t pay me a billion dollars to be on that jury.

          i’d be in constant fear that some obese retard in a uniform will come rape my wife or smash my kid’s brains into the concrete if i voted guilty.

  48. And people wonder why no one respects the police anymore.

    I agree that the PD needs to “start over”. This current crop is rotten to the core. They are out of touch with the community. They have no respect for the people they are supposedly serving.

    The pigs on here (John Doe) have become intoxicated by their perverse fantasy where they are in charge and where the citizens have to accept things the way the police choose to present them. They think they can just ride this out and things will remain the way they have been. That exact thought has passed through the mind of every person whose time was up – who didn’t adapt to the changing tides.

    Things will change – you can be sure of that. The public is becoming smarter and more demanding. Look at this website! We understand that we have a voice. We want accountability. We are tired of being bullied. We will videotape you. We will assert our rights. We will take the streets back from the thugs that “patrol” them. We will achieve justice; Justice from those that made a mockery of the ideals they were supposed to uphold.

    The cops that did this and those that defend them are pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Deep down inside, I know some of you are.

    1. 1. videotape
      2. post online
      3. identify
      4. demand prosecution
      5. sue for civil damages

      That’s the future for police in this country.

      1. Devil

        That’s the way it has always been. Problem now is that suing can only impact city programs and has no affect on the bad cops. Doesn’t touch their pensions and just takes money from the prgrams like the schools.

        Suing used to be good because the cities were overflowing in money. Now the attorneys are making millions off lawsuits even when they are frivolous. Lose lose for everyone.

      2. Devil

        That’s the way it has always been. Problem now is that suing can only impact city programs and has no affect on the bad cops. Doesn’t touch their pensions and just takes money from the prgrams like the schools.

        Suing used to be good because the cities were overflowing in money. Now the attorneys are making millions off lawsuits even when they are frivolous. Lose lose for everyone. I like the idea of if a cop or fireman is convicted of a felony then you take his pension but that will never eve happen.

  49. Is this Joe Wolfe the same jerk cop that was a resource officer at Sunny Hills High in 2009? He was hassling students back then. He needs to be on trials just like those other two murders.

  50. Mad as hell and I don’t even live there. That is first time I saw w hole video. Every one of those cops are responsible in some way. Jerks. There was an article about a guy facing min 15 yrs for neglecting animals and all Ramos is facing is min 4 yrs. Cicnelli min 15 yrs. B– S—. If that’sall they get, I don’t expect any riots, BUT, I would not be surprised if there was. Those guys deserve MAX penalties. And it’s a joke, unintentional manslaughter??!!. Fat Ramos was itching to use his baton from the beginning. What’s wrong w/ all those cops?, that it took all those guys to subdue him!! It didn’t, not possible!!. JERKS. They ALL need to be punished!! How is it possible that all those cops were in on this needlessly??!! They did not need their help!! Kelly had no drugs in him, and someone or 2 repeated that he was on something!!! They were feeding the frenzy w/ false allegations!!!

  51. “No cops are ever fired – even for the
    most heinous activities.”

    I guess you missed the post in here about WPD detective Orban, fired for rape.

    You also must have missed the very recent coverage of former LBPD veteran cop Noe Yanez, who moonlighted as a serial child molestator and is sitting in jail as we type.

    You surely missed the tale from last year of the OCSD deputy who was fired for multiple complaints of sexual misconduct.

    I really could go on but I’ve done a good enough job of taking your ignorant blanket statement and tearing it a new one.

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