So What’s Next?
As soon as the Fullerton Recall election is certified (which should be comparatively quick) the reactionary Old Guard will be out and the new majority of reformers will be sworn in to join Bruce Whitaker in an opportunity to usher in a new era of accountability in Fullerton City Hall.
What should be the immediate agenda? How about finally (and immediately) revoking the illegal 10% water tax and figuring out how to implement a refund? How about pulling the plug on the last minute (and also illegal) Redevelopment deals handed out by the Three Flat Tires to their buddies like Dick Ackerman? How about initiating an immediate search for a new chief of police from outside the tainted innards of the FPD? How about an immediate jettison of the incompetent and inert City Attorney, Jones & Meyer? How about the demotion or removal of the City manager, Joe Felz, dubbed “Albert Pujols” of city managers by Patdown Pat McKinley, who sat on his ass while Fullerton went to hell?
How about a timely assessment of the labor union agreements that have created a multi-hundred million dollar unfunded liability for Fullerton? How about consideration of a “total compensation” approach in all future negotiations?
Feel free to add your ideas.
http://www.ocregister.com/news/police-357717-department-city.html
“Outsourcing” …Nice wording Lou Ponsi, Did the Fullerton police union slip you a buck to go with that headline?
(from that article)
“The head of the Fullerton Police Association, a union that represents the city’s 154 sworn officers and dispatchers, said his group would fight any attempt to outsource services. Cpl. Barry Coffman said it’s not accurate and not fair to characterize the department as corrupt.
[“I think they are misinformed,” Coffman said about anyone saying the department has had corruption. “They don’t know what corrupt is. … They take this Kelly Thomas incident and say there has been a cover-up. Just because they didn’t get information when they wanted it, they conclude there is corruption.”]
Well no shit sherlock, ya think?! Of course there’s corruption and you’re a big part of it obviously!
That very statement shows that Coffman needs to be gone! What a jackass he is! I vote to replace the entire PD with Sheriff’s Department! This corrupt department has been running the city for many years, and it’s time for it to be dissolved!
and you read that right “this Kelly incident” !!!! A life was brutally taken and it’s just an “incident????”
As my favorite card character says “Off with their heads!!!”
why would Barry want to outsource? He’s got a cake detail with nothing but union thugs he works with. Except for those that got promoted who for sure will remember that come promotional time. At least if he promotes he can go back to working 3 days a week which gives him an extra day to cheat on his wife and have affairs with cadets and dispatchers
Barry Coffman writing his first ticket of the year which just happens to be to cite a motorist honking in support of the Kelly Thomas protesters…
IMHO this action was a direct attempt to shut down the Kelly Thomas protests that were occurring in front of city hall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEIbMZxqJw8
this was him following Hughes’ orders at time and a half
Maybe it was just a cosmic coincidence that the President and the Vice-President of the Fullerton Police officers Association are the ones trying to derail the Kelly Thomas protest in front of the Fullerton Police station by issuing citations for honking.
Funny thing -I was at open house at Ladera Vista recently and while perusing the text books I noticed a 7th grade social studies book with that quote in it as well. Nice to see the school district is still on board. It has a nice jingle to it doesn’t it? Politicians love unarmed peasants. That we are not -nor shall we ever be.
“I just want to let you know that we are not against all cops, just murdering cops”, Joey said. And what was Coffman’s response to Joey’s statement? He responds to Joey’s statement with a lie…”I don’t know what you are referring to sir”.
And this fucking lying pig cop is the head of the Fullerton Police Officers Union. WTF does that tell you. Time to bring in some new blood.
“cake detail”
literally?
you are correct, Fullerton PD must be replaced with OC sheriff dept.. FPD has proven itself time and time again to be unprofessional, dangerous and with the plethora of legal settlements paid out to FPD victims added onto the exorbitent salaries and pensions awarded to the FPD by our prior municipal government, the FPD’s financial cost to our town greatly damages our community.
Was Kelly stoned on bath salts–Cloud Nine perhaps???????
We will never know he was cremated. Nice going Papa Thomas!
Just please save Coyote Hills. No more talk of development in the last remaining and very beautiful open space in north OC (and the only reason I bought my home in Fullerton).
How about making Whitaker the new Mayor?
Naw, why bother? Quirk lost by 18 points let her finish her term then just go away.
Getting rid of her as well would be best IMO…. Why keep a well-known rotten apple in the bunch?
She can cuddle with Sanchez, and go back to teaching full time.
your hittin’ on all 8 cylinders Joe-step on it
How about looking at every unnecessary fullerton municipal government appendage, broom closet bureaucrat and so on that has refused to statistically measure it progress and effectiveness yet demands funding every year be discharged from our town’s list of services to the public
Right on! Let it begin now!
and the city of Fullerton get rid of services that have been replicated by already existing services within the county and state. Another soloution to our budget woes caused by the FPD and the fools who roosted on our city council for too long, would be development of consortium approach to municipal services. If there are public services that can not be outsourced to private sectors, then instead of replicating entire department of services whose mirror image exists in Anaheim, Garden Grove, Brea and we get the point, it would make financial sense to form a cooperative of services.
For too long, Fullerton has acted as a kingdom that gouged the community with onerous taxes to support its royalty, our public servants.
And now city of fullerton is going broke from its government’s delusions of grandeur.
I don’t want the Fullerton PD to go away. With the current bunch of officers, at least it is known which ones are troublemakers. Why do people prefer a bunch of strangers from OCSD whose behavior could be worse? I don’t get that.
The FPOA already despises Norby and Whitaker. Add Kiger and Sebourn to that list. They are terrified of the Fullerton Police Department going away.
The FPOA contract isn’t up for a couple years. Let the department prove they deserve to stick around. With the election of Kiger and Sebourn there is a proverbial gun held to the heads of the FPD. I think reality will finally settle in with these people. Let’s hope they respond accordingly.
If I recall correctly there are about 13 million reasons a year someone might prefer OCSD.
A bunch of strangers?
We would prefer someone we can TRUST — and that is NOT the FPD.
The good and fair officers should begin to put their applications in with the SO immediately! Yes, there are some, but the whole thing is too corrupted and broken. Time to fix it.
AND not to mention the millions of $$$ it would save the city!
The entire department is not bad.
Going to OCSD puts Fullerton at the mercy of Sandra Hutchens who could not be fired by the Fullerton City Council.
It all depends on the agreements and limitations — the council might still have the control we want them to have. It’s all in the details….
They would be subcontractors and you can fire them too….
and I did say the good and fair officers should put their apps in at the SO, so….. I agree that it’s not 100% bad, just about 98%.
Just like your former boss Chief Michael Sellers could not be fired. At least Sandra Hutchens is elected which means the citizens of Fullerton not only have the option of voting her out but they can also terminate the contract.
Poor example my friend.
1. I do not work for the FPD.
2. Wrong, the citizens of Fullerton cannot vote Sandra Hutchens out. That will a take a consensus of all Orange County voters.
3. If you terminate the contract, then what? Bring back the FPD?
Perhaps.
Buth disbanding the FPD is the right thing to do and helps people all across America.
Police goons and their higly over paid superiors will understand this could happne to them as well.
The good people of Fullerton have taken a stand and have put a light on the evil that is the FPD and the roaches are running.
That said, the UNION is the biggest problem. WI electioins are showing how to deal with big UNIONS.
Help all Americans, disband the FPD and break all the public sector Unions in your area.
Show us the way.
What? I thought Fullerton was part of Orange County.
Exactly and if Sandra Hutchens did what sellers did that would not be a problem. In fact as an elected official the voters of orange county would also the power to recall him. Another added bonus.
Sure, why not?
The problem officers will be long gone by then or will not meet the requirements of the new department.
Fullerton would not have enough votes to throw Sandra Hutchens out. And that’s if every man, woman, child, cat, and dog from Fullerton voted against her. You’re making a presumption that other Orange County voters would feel the same as Fullerton voters would. That is nonsense.
If the FPD is disbanded it will be extremely expensive to bring it back and start over again.
Think of it this way,after ten years of contracting with OCSD Fullerton would have saved $130 million dollars. Hang onto the property, lease it out in the meantime (no bars, thanks) and you always have an out.
What is your point exactly?
I am and as I said before, if Sandra Hutchens did what sellers did after the beating, I’m sure the voters of Orange County which includes the City of Fullerton would want some answers.
You are sadly misinformed. She is elected by the ENTIRE county, not the City, and the contracts have a five year notice clause. When you buy her, you get OCSD for five years, with a no cut clause. And she enforces the law the way she wants, no local control. I think perhaps you don’t live here. There are many on this blog, who also don’t live here. Stick to your own town, county, state….
Snakes you better start working on that resume because looks like you could be out of a job soon.
troll alert = snakes
Oh yeah, I work for the FPD.
I have family working for OCSD. The hundreds of stories I’ve heard are just as bad as the ones emanating from the FPD. The only difference is the political bullshit at the very top of the OCSD since the Sheriff is elected. Fullerton can’t get rid of Sandra Hutchens or her future successors.
Sure they can. Fullerton could reinstitute a new-from-the-ground-up FPD at some point. Or it could hire a neighboring city to provide police service. Look at Yorba Linda. OCSD isn’t the only game in town, and they’re probably just as bad as anywhere else. They are, however, a lot cheaper.
The reason OCSD is “cheaper” is because they have other funding sources which allow them to charge less for their services.
When you compensate for that, the cost savings is negligible or non-existent.
snakes, wrong… wrong… wrong… leave the math to the pencil pushers 🙂
Prove me wrong. Do it. I’ll be waiting.
Uh, and the point is? I don’t care *why* they’re cheaper as long as they’re able to provide the necessary services.
I have worked for FPD too. And have friends who are in LAPD, OCSD, the FBI and the Texas Rangers (not baseball either!), and you name it. I know what goes on….
Were you replying to me or somebody else? What is your point?
I was replying to YOU, it’s in your thread lol
Oh yeah, I work for the FPD.
I have family working for OCSD. The hundreds of stories I’ve heard are just as bad as the ones emanating from the FPD. The only difference is the political bullshit at the very top of the OCSD since the Sheriff is elected. Fullerton can’t get rid of Sandra Hutchens or her future successors.
What is your point?
I agree with Snakes again! Twice in one day GODDAM IT!
That’s it ! Beers for everyone! lmao
“So What’s Next?”……….. Hmmmmmm
Tony, can you do same in the Santa Ana?
I can give you three names if you are interested.
In no particular order:
1. Repeal the illegal water tax.
2. Fire the city manager and attorney.
3. Issue a formal apology to the Thomas family and the citizens of Fullerton. Try to reach an amicable settlement with Ron. None of this “we admit no wrong doing but here’s your money” crap.
4. Make lots of noise about turing policing over to OCSD. It might not ultimately happen, but it will scare the shit out of the FPD and might cause a number of problems to magically fix themselves.
the problem is Hughes and his cronies. Hughes can’t sit back and claim no knowledge when all these bad decisions were made by him…. U can’t fix fpd… u need to outsource so the administration is dissolved and those officers deserving of being absorbed by ocsd will…… plus the savings is huge!!
Firstly do a sit down with Sandra Hutchens and get some input and ideas!
Paul Waters, could also offer some insight. I believe he has retired…..
Audit the general fund and any other fund that has had the opportunity to operate nefariously by the current regime.
add that to JHJ’s list.
Let the council appologize to Ron Thomas. But dont appolpologize for the city of Fullerton. I live in Fullerton and I dont want council to appologize on my behalf. And I will let council know.
They probably wouldn’t apologize on your behalf as apologize for (people like) you.
Ha. That’s a good one.
> I dont want council to appologize on my behalf. And I will let council know.
I doubt Schwartz and Barnett would approve of you doing that.
why would barnett and schwartz care?
They could and should apologize on behalf of the city council and the FPD. That’s who enabled all this to happen! NOT the citizens of Fullerton…
I agree with you.
HOW ABOUT FIXING THE POTHOLES?
The streets in Fullerton are so poor, when you pass the city limits into Placentia or Anaheim you can notice the difference. Would love to see this one on the new coucile members ageda.
In the course of reading all the available information during the recall process and listening to the positions of different candidates, I personally think the best outcome would have been for Rowe to have been elected to McKinnley’s seat while having Levinson appointed as City Manager. Levinson has spoken so eloquently at City Council meetings and seems to have a good sense for the kind of financial decisions that Fullerton needs. After listening to Chaffe’s infomercial it’s frustrating that he won the seat. Yes, the people voted, but 60% of the people of Fullerton didn’t want him in that position.
I agree ‘Concerned Texan” makes sense
My biggest concern with contracting out our police services is that the OC Sheriff has problems of their own. Carona is currently serving time in prison and his predecessor Brad Gates wasn’t much better (remember, Don Bankhead ran against him in 1990 as a reformer). Plus, the City Council would have even less control over the Sheriff’s Department than it currently has over the FPD.
Still, I think keeping the idea on the table could be useful in implementing the changes that need to be made to the Department. Having the option on the table also wouldn’t hurt in trying to re-negotiate the City’s pension obligations with the FPD.
I’ll say it again…
OCSD is by no means perfect but you cannot train or fix the FPD because the people responsible for the abuse, corruption, sexual assaults, etc are still there and still hold high rank. If you honestly think you train or fix the department you are throwing away your money.
Every day the Fullerton PD exists in it’s current form, the residents of Fullerton loses a large chunk of money. Unfortunately as the law stands, you cannot fire problem officers from the department at will so the only logical choice is disbanding.
Maywood and Compton did it but if you are one of those who enjoy watching millions of your tax dollars being paid out in settlements and pensions while your city’s infrastructure continues to crumble, so be it.
The choice is clear, disband and save money or work on implementing “changes” and “policy” with the same people responsible for everything and continue hemorrhaging money.
It’s very possible OCSD would have to hire FPD officers because of all the protections afforded to labor unions.
The OCSD isn’t contracted with the Fullerton Police Union furthermore the current Fullerton Officers will have to meet OCSD’s requirements. There is no way around this .
The OCSD doesn’t HAVE to hire anyone, they got this new thing called the Academy…. and there are other men and women in other parts of the country who can serve just as well.
This IS personal now, you have to understand that, right?? The citizens of Fullerton DON’T FEEL SAFE.
What do you do when you can’t trust the cops? How is a citizen to know which one to trust? The entire department has a cloud over it. Disbanding and start fresh is the answer. There would be more confidence in that, IMO, than keeping the department as it is now. Disbanding takes care of alot of things when you can’t fire’m.
They would hire some of them, but the PROBLEM children will most likely be shown the door.
FPD cops WILL have to go through background checks to soot the needs of OCSD.
Some FPD will stay on patrol and be assigned to other locations. They will no doubt break up the click of cops we see creating problems.
It cost Fullerton taxpayers $35,618 more per day to have the FPD patrolling our streets than the OC Sherriffs Dept. would cost.
Just think about how many potholes we could fill and lybrary books we could buy with that amount of “extra” coin.
It’s time to either renegotiate or drop the hammer, cause in the end we’ll always have the same level of service.
You are right. The CORRUPT FPD needs to be completely replaced. Having a sheriff oversee the current FPD animals would be a joke. SEND THE CORRUPT FPD ON THEIR WAY. DISABILITY PENSIONS ARE THE EXIT STRATEGY HERE. THEY ALL CAN GET JOBS WITH THE L A PD.
For starters have the city stop targeting low-income neighborhoods to enforce their ban on overnight parking, because they know that poor people always have to park on the street. If you want the poor to climb the socio-economic ladder stop knocking them off with 38$ tickets. Have the FBI investigate the relationship with the police and the various towing companys. Reach out to the poor of the city not just the homeless, have a picnic in low-income housing, ask them what they think of the police or code enforcement….Hold hearing on each city department and let any citizen come in and voice their opinion of those departments…
My cousin doesn’t live in a low-income neighborhood and there is a ban on overnight parking where she lives – so it doesn’t seem limited to low-income areas…
Is it really over reaching to think that the new council members could lay the foundations for the City of Fullerton to create a different police model from the ground up? After the recall, I don’t think the citizens of Fullerton deserve to be presented with two choices which really appear to not be “choices” at all.
I just want to say that Dave Ellis was very mean to me. I asked him for a sign and he was very rude, which made me want to vote YES on the recall and I’m glad I did! I’m an old lady, but I think that a man should treat a lady with respect – and Dave Ellis did no such thing. I hope in the future we can work together to run him out of office along with Rackaucus, Felz, Jones, and destroy Larry Bennet’s credibility also.
Here’s an article that’s very relevent. I found the link on FFFF sometime ago. But here’s the article in it’s entirety.
Abolish the Police
by Anthony Gregory
On May 13, 1985, in the twilight of the Cold War, residents of Philadelphia were ruthlessly bombed from the sky. The enemy government was conducting a political mission, but innocent inhabitants of that distinctly American city were caught up in the attack. After ten thousand rounds were fired at civilians over a period of two hours, a helicopter swooped in and dropped C-4 and Tovex explosives, destroying 65 houses. Five children were slaughtered in the strike.
The perpetrator was not the Soviet Union, or else the attack might have escalated into international conflict. It certainly would have made it into textbook timelines and become part of the nation’s consciousness. No, those responsible for this atrocity were members of the Philadelphia police department. The local cops sought to finish off their political enemies after years of animosity and tension. The proximate legal excuse for bombing their own city? The cops had gotten complaints about noise and the stench of compost.
Twenty-six years have passed since the bombing of the MOVE house and if there was any doubt before, it is now beyond question that the local police have become the occupying troops that Malcolm X described. They are the standing army the Founding Fathers warned against. In the United States, they are the most dangerous gang operating and they do so under the color of law.
Anyone who reads Will Grigg should be familiar with this reality. The man who once edited the magazine for the John Birch Society, an organization whose 60’s mantra was “support your local police,” has since then focused largely on documenting the daily outrages conducted by these tax parasites. Reading his specific accounts of misconduct and brutality, one comes to the inescapable conclusion that police abuse is not a bug in the system; it is an intrinsic feature.
We can cite some of the most gruesome and high-profile outrages of recent years, such as the murder of Oscar Grant on New Years Day, 2009, a young man shot by a Bay Area cop in the back while lying face-down on the ground; or the brutal beating of Alexander Landau, a college student who dared to ask Denver cops for a warrant before they searched his trunk; or the plight of seven-year-old Aiyana Stanley Jones, who was murdered last May in Detroit as she lay on her family’s couch while the cops raided the home, tossed in a flash-grenade that set her on fire and then shot her in the head.
Any one of these incidents should set off as much anti-government anger as the Boston Massacre, but some will object that I am cherry picking. So let us limit ourselves to just the last couple months to illustrate the depth of the problem. Last month, police in Trenton shot and killed an unarmed man, saying he was reaching for his waistband. In Orlando, police tased a man to death for being disorderly in a movie theater. In Derby, Kansas, a police officer broke a teenager’s arm because he dared to talk back after getting in trouble for wearing sagging pants.
On May 5, police in Tuscon stormed into Jose Guerena’s home around 9 AM, and shot him 71 times. Yes, fearful for his family’s safety, he was holding an AR-15 in self-defense, but didn’t get a shot in, despite lies to the contrary – yet there was no evidence found of any wrongdoing or illegality on his part. In Alabama, a police officer beat an 84-year-old man for reporting a car accident and daring to put the offender under “citizens arrest” – a more civilized version of what police do routinely – and then the officer turned an ambulance away, insisting the elderly victim didn’t need medical help. Louisiana cops tased Kirkin Woolridge at a traffic stop on May 18, and he soon died of complications in jail.
Just in the last week, we have the DC cops who brutally beat up a defenseless man in a wheelchair. In Moore, Oklahoma, innocent residents are upset that police shot at their homes indiscriminately in attempting to chase down an “armed suicidal subject.” In Fort Collins, Colorado, a police patrol car seriously injured a bicyclist, but unlike nearly any other collision between a bike and car, it is being blamed on the bicyclist.
These are just very recent examples that can be found from a minute of Googling. They are no doubt the tip of the iceberg. They do not begin to represent the millions of smaller injustices conducted by police daily, both under the cover of law and in naked violation of statutes and court decisions, or the thousands of daily injustices and acts of torture and sexual abuse in America’s prisons and jails, for which law enforcers are at least indirectly and very often directly responsible.
The chaotic violence of the modern police state is ubiquitous. Every day there are 100 SWAT raids in America. Remember in the old days when SWAT raids were reserved for stopping some terrorist intent on destroying half the city? Maybe that was just in the movies. There were 3,000 SWAT raids in 1981, the year I was born, which was bad enough. There will be 40,000 this year.
In modern America, even small towns have their own air forces. The TV news frets about al-Qaeda, but rarely exposes the threat of the thin blue line. About as many Americans have been killed by police since 9/11/01 as died on that day. Between 1980 and 2005, police killed 9,500 people in the U.S., approximately one per day and almost three-fourths as many people as have been sentenced and executed in the United States since colonial times. A study in Harris County, Texas, found that between 1999 and mid 2005, officers in the county shot 65 unarmed people, killing 17.
But don’t police put their lives on the line for us? Only 117 police were killed in the line of duty in 2009, which might seem like a lot, but being a police officer is not even one of the top ten dangerous jobs in America.
Surely, the people who are killed by the cops had it coming. Well, consider how many are killed when the police presumably do not intend to kill at all and so reach for their taser. Amnesty International found that “the number of people who died after being struck by Tasers in the USA reached 334 between 2001 and August 2008.”
This all puts aside the unspeakable corruption that plagues virtually every police station in America. From an Orlando officer covering up evidence of vicious brutality against a 100-pound woman to the systematic corruption of a small-town department in Kansas to San Francisco undercover cops stealing drugs for themselves, even the reported cases of police misconduct – there were 2,500 such reports last year – are enough to show the whole system is rotten. A cursory look at the admitted child rapists and other such lowlifes who often “serve” as officers for years before being caught also puts the lie to the very idea that police are on average any more noble than the general population.
Limited-government libertarians often reserve at least three functions to the state – military, courts and police. But why police? We never tire of talking about America as it was before the government swallowed society whole. In particular, we reminisce about the principles of 1776. Yet, although there was plenty to object to in colonial law and law in the early republic, police as we now know them didn’t exist back then.
Philadelphia adopted a police force in 1845. New Orleans, Cincinnati, Chicago and Baltimore followed suit in the next decade. From the beginning these were politicized bodies, involved in corrupt local politics and enforcing questionable laws. They were not immaculately conceived any more than the state itself. But it was not until the Progressive Era that the modern police force was truly born. At the turn of the century, cities adopted fingerprinting and forensics labs. Soon came radios and patrol cars. Berkeley, California, home to many great strides in progressive social engineering, was also a pioneer in creating modern police. August Vollmer, Berkeley’s chief of police, trained a new generation of cops through the University of California. His protégé O M. Wilson went on to revolutionize the forces of Wichita and Chicago.
By the 1960s, police were more often in cars than walking the streets. This made a big difference. Lawrence M. Freedman writes in Crime and Punishment in American History:
A cop on foot was a familiar cop, a neighborhood cop; he knew his beat, and the beat knew him. He was also pretty much on his own. Headquarters was far away; he was beyond its beck and call. But now a ton of steel separated the motorized officer from the community; police cruising in patrol cars were strangers to the dark, dangerous streets; these police tended to feel alien, beleaguered; the locals, for their part, thought of them as an outside, occupying force.
This alienation from the community tends to galvanize the police into a tight-knit gang complete with its own identity: “The police are a tight, beleaguered group. They develop their own subculture, and it is a subculture of tough, macho conservatism. . . . They see human beings at their worst, and that certainly colors their philosophy of life.”
Furthermore, cops have come to “believe in fighting fire with fire. Police brutality was part of a more general system of police power. It rested on a simple credo: the battalions of law and order had the right, if not the duty, to be tough as nails with criminals. Force was the only language the criminal understood.”
Force might be necessary to deal with violent thugs, but allowing the greatest predator of all – the state – to monopolize the sector of the economy concerned with using force against criminals is a recipe for oppression and injustice. The entire history of government police demonstrates they cannot be trusted. They are the henchmen of all the totalitarian regimes we see on the History Channel. In the United States, they were always a menace, at least to some. They tended early on to focus their brutality against the other – immigrants, gangsters, ethnic minorities, transients and the counterculture. Today they still bias their violence against the fringes of society, the young and the powerless, but they are now so vast a presence that no one is safe, no matter how respectable, no matter his demographic.
The 20th century brought us all the horrors of progressivism, and one conspicuous example has been the militarized city police force, which has become an organization hostile to all manner of civilized decency. The last century, particularly since the 1960s, also meant an increasing nationalization of police, arming them with military weapons, plugging them into national databases, harmonizing oppression throughout the country so there is no escape, charging cops with new national crusades against drugs and other non-crimes. Then there is the revolving door between the military and police precincts, with veterans, often traumatized from battle, increasingly enlisting back home as cops. The institutional and cultural nationalization has made matters worse, although local police, as agents of the state, have been very eager partners in the federalization of law enforcement. They have never been the great defenders against national usurpation conservatives long hoped for; but today they are all-out quislings.
Needless to say, all anarchists should support outright and immediate abolition of the police. We’re talking about the enforcement arm of the state, after all. If you oppose the state monopoly, you must favor eliminating the state’s method of maintaining its monopoly – through the police. And indeed, if you distrust socialism, you should distrust law-enforcement socialism as much as anything, for this is the original sin that allows all other state depredations to follow. Also, when the state misallocates resources, it is not nearly so evil in itself as when it inevitably misallocates violence on a massive scale.
For much of U.S. history, Americans had less government and fewer police. Government will necessarily be weaker, all else being equal, the fewer enforcement agents it boasts. Without any armed enforcers, the state withers away. The fewer armed state agents the better. The growth of modern leviathan in the 20th century accompanied the rise of the city police force. Big government and cops go hand in hand.
If your goal is to end the welfare state, the regulatory state, the wars, or anything else seriously bad about government, abolishing the police would seem to be a major priority. Do you oppose taxation? Abolish the police, as well as all other agencies of government law enforcement, and see how threatening those 1040s and state tax forms seem then.
Some will argue that the police protect our rights. But if the market is really better than socialism, abolishing the police outright shouldn’t be a problem. Why trust the state to continue cornering the market on rights protection? If protecting life, liberty and property is important – and it most certainly is – we cannot to let the central planners and their armed enforcers run the show. Fire them immediately. The market will find a better way to protect us within 24 hours, if it takes nearly that long. If we all take up the abolitionist cause, certainly by the time police are abolished, civil society will find a way to fill the void.
And of course, the very premise that we must maintain state police for the sake of our rights assumes that they protect our rights more than they infringe them. This is completely dubious. Surely we have no “constitutional right” to police protection, as the Seventh Circuit Court determined in Bowers v. Devito (1982). When there’s a riot or huge unleashing of social unrest, police often bail out, leaving shop owners and other people to fend for themselves, who do a better job anyway, as during the 1992 LA riots. What’s more, the police often exacerbate the catastrophe by disarming homeowners and shooting at people committing petty offenses, like they did after Katrina. Furthermore, studies seem to indicate that police strikes don’t lead to any demonstrated rise in crime.
We can probably assume that abolishing the police would not lead to the apocalypse people fear, not even in the short run as the market sorts things out. Why?
First of all actual crimes are almost never prevented by the police. The vast majority go unsolved. At best, the police investigate them after they occur, and then usually do nothing. Sometimes they make an arrest, which might, at a huge expense to taxpayers, result in someone in jail – and maybe even the right person. Even in this minority of cases, the idea that jail is a remedy to the rights violation, or prevents more rights violations from occurring, is an unchecked premise. Even putting violent predators in prison where they can brutalize less violent people may not actually reduce the amount of aggression, if we count the victims in the cages, as we should. Meanwhile, even the government’s pursuit of actual criminals entails numerous rights violations in itself – investigations of the innocent, enslaving jurors and witnesses, turning lives upside down. Victims are never made whole. And for this we have to run the risk of being shot or wrongly arrested by the state.
Second of all, the police actively encourage violent crime in myriad ways. They enforce the drug war, which probably doubles the number of homicides and vastly increases street crime, along with some help from gun control, which they also enforce. Gun control, by the way, demonstrates that people do fear the police more than criminals – otherwise no one would follow these gun laws. Instead, law-abiding folks know the risk of being caged for this non-crime is more significant than the risk of being caught unarmed by a private thug. So does gun control operate in preserving the advantage for private criminals. Abolishing the police outright, even if it put upward pressure on crime rates, would probably overall lead to fewer crimes because of the elimination of the criminality incited and encouraged by state activity.
Third and most important, the police themselves routinely violate the rights of innocent people as a major component of their job description. The greater their numbers, financing and power, the worse it gets. It is the job of police to harass the innocent, to jail people for victimless crimes, to stop people for minor traffic violations, to trick people into admitting law breaking, to fulfill quotas for arrests, and to generally instill in the community a fear and awe of the state. It is almost impossible to be a police officer on the beat and not violate the non-aggression principle on a regular basis. As a material fact, most police conducting arrests on the street are committing acts of kidnapping, theft, trespass, and invasion. Those who arrest people who end up in prison are effectively accessories to rape and assault.
Even if having police is a desirable thing, we cannot do so safely until the bad laws are off the books, and then it would be best to fire all police and start over. If having had a severe criminal record tends to disqualify people from the job, so too must having been a reputable police officer. If I am too harsh in this regard, it is just one more reason to abolish the government’s police and allow for the market to take over. Allow entrepreneurs to decide which former government police are redeemable and employable as private security and which are not.
What to do about violent thugs? The market, social norms, private security, the wonders and corollary institutions of private property, gated communities, private gun ownership, religious values – all the blessings of civil society are on our side. But the police rarely are. When a violent criminal kills or assaults or rapes or steals, we all condemn it, and we can find a way to deal with it when the criminals are not protected by the system. But what about when the criminals are the system?
Private security is already a greater bulwark against violent and property crime than many people realize. As of 1997, according to the Economist (as cited by Robert Higgs):
There are three times as many private policemen as public ones…. Americans also spend a lot more on private security (about $90 billion a year) than they do, through tax dollars, on the public police ($40 billion). Even the government itself spends more hiring private guards than it does paying for police forces.
For a decade and a half, we have had three times as many private guards as public ones, yet it is an oddity indeed to hear about their abuses, unlike those of the police that make the papers every day – and that’s just counting reported offenses. It should be no wonder. As market actors, private security guards are generally heroic defenders of property, commerce and life, and are liable for the wrong they do, unlike the state’s armed agents, who work for an institution of monopoly, theft, kidnapping, rape rooms and murder.
Can we really survive without government police? When we consider how much they do to disrupt civil society, it would seem obvious that we can. The police, on balance, are a force for decivilization and disorder. They commit massive violations of person and property. They enforce gun and drug laws that basically create organized crime and breed gang activity. Most of what they do encourages, rather than diminishes, violence. Despite all this, America remains a fairly civilized place. If we survived this long with the police, just imagine how much better off we’d be without them.
May 26, 2011
Anthony Gregory [send him mail] is a research analyst at the Independent Institute. He lives in Oakland, California. See his webpage for more articles and personal information.
Copyright © 2011 by LewRockwell.com. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit is given
Excellent article. I am not giving up my guns either!
The biggest tragedy is that the USA public actually wants the brutal COPs.
I have been around the world and have never seen public there being so in love with the COPs as is in USA.
Just look at Hollywood flicks like Dirty Harry and hundreds of TV crapola glamorizing COPs’ brutality and lawlessness.
There are trials where people can convict COPs but they never do.
The recently in Santa Ana there was case of Susie Young Kim brutally shoot in front of her 18 mo. old daughter, execution stile, from behind.
There was criminal trial and COP was acquitted by 12 moron mongoloids who will always fall for this crapola that he was protecting us.
Then there was a civil trial and jury was split because there was at least one idiot like Commissioner Sean Mill who too is too stupid to comprehend the realty and facts.
Then city settled for 2 Mill.
We must start seeing the COPs for what they are and reject their brutality.
We must have acquire legal rights to self defense against unruly COPs.
Actually we have, the 2nd Amendment which we do not want to uphold. The right to bare arms was not intended for hunting but self defense against the government.
However, any such restructuring is impossible because there is too many idiots in this country who support the war on drugs, terror and prostitution which gives the COPs a power to do what ever they want to do.
I think that we could send a strong message if we start convicting COPs in the criminal court.
Can we do that?…..
Are we brave enough?
I have predicted that the Fullerton 2 or 3 will walk.
“We must have acquire legal rights to self defense against unruly COPs.
Actually we have, the 2nd Amendment which we do not want to uphold. The right to bare arms was not intended for hunting but self defense against the government.”
Exactly! I think people forget the point of that amendment! Now if we can just get Adolph Hussein Obamination out of office, we will have a better chance of keeping our guns!
As a Benefactor level Life Member of the NRA, I’ll say the best answer is JOIN the NRA today, if you’re not already a member. They’re fighting every day for your/our 2nd Ammendment rights.
Also, vote Obummer out, as well as any other Anti-gun politician, there’s a lot of them, and they’re sneaky.
I am an NRA member. And yes, Obummer HAS to GO! He’s been stuffing the Supreme Court with his buddies and other subversive folks, so they all need to go!
I agree. I have a friend with a commercial drivers license and if we got the same ticket, he pays twice the fine and gets twice the points. Do the same with cops, as professionals, make the sentences and fines twice what a non-cop would get. Also, immediately off duty, and in jail, immediatly plead, bail or no bail, then back to jail if no bail. No more double standard, treat them exactly as a non-cop would be treated. Also if convicted no more protected custody, put them in the general pop. like anyone else.
I’ve been talking about the police brutality in the media to my friends and am happy you brought it up, I don’t know how to stop it, but it should be brought to a halt. How do you educate the morons?
police “polis” the ancient Greek democratic city states had police forces to maintain order and obedience to the laws of the city. Ancient rome had centaurians(?) who maintained order and enforced the laws upon the populace. Civilizations need police to maintain order so business, industry and families may live in safety. The phenomena is the militarization of the police, especially in the United States in the last fifty years. I’m not sure, but I don’t believe democratic governments in the past used their police to wage war on the populace. Our american war on drugs is a good example of how the police are allowed to overstep our civil rights to win victories on victimless crimes. When Pat McKinley was fullerton police chief, his philosophy reflected a bedroom city commando approach to enforcing the laws upon our community that reflected more the tactics of a fascist government than our republic.
The Fullerton police Dept has to many “sworn officiers” who saw and did not stop the killing of Kelly and so many others atrocities we are still uncovering. The whole Dept should be shut down and the cops allowed to apply for jobs at ocsd or another contracted city police Dept. We can always return to our own Dept. We need to send a message as citizens of Fullerton that cops work for us and we expect them to be law enforcement shining examples of professional lawmen.
see, that’s the thing I was thinking too — a lot of them, most of them knew about this — who stepped up? Maybe now some of them will step up for the trial…
The whole idea of getting rid of redevelopment Dept was to save money and reduce payroll and expenses. Its not fair for Fullerton residence to support these people. Sorry they need to go along with the city mgr and city attorney. We can contract these positions out to professionals who know what they are doing.
Anyone of this seem eerily familiar?
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-maywood,0,4678304.story
I think concurrent and retro audits of the police dept including reviews of paperwork, reports, citizen complaints and employee emails should be initiated and make sure no one hides things in drawers or shreds documents, I especially am concerned of citizens reporting on this blog, that when they try to call the police dept with an issue they are rudely dismissed and nothing comes of it.
I’d also like someone to clear up the mystery of the $900,000 that was offered to Ron Thomas but now, magically, no one seems to know anything about it or who ok’d it.
Ask Ron thomas?
I would gladly ask Ron Thomas, but he doesn’t know either.
I’m going after Joe!
The amount of overtime paid out to FPD officers is a serious concern. Perhaps it is time to scale back the Traffic Bureau and move those officers into roles that reduce the overtime paid out and, you know, fight real crime?
Revenue from traffic and parking citations doesn’t even pay for the Traffic Bureau’s existence! They still need about $1 million from the City’s General Fund.
The new budget claims 22 full-time Traffic positions. Scaling back Traffic Enforcement would reduce revenue to the City but would it be offset by overtime savings?
Page 16: http://www.cityoffullerton.com/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?blobid=7452
Yorba Linda is roughly half the population of Fullerton, the same size (20 sq miles) geographically.
Yorba Linda is contracting with OCSD for less than $10 million per year. Fullerton’s police budget this year is $38 million dollars. A $28 million dollar difference? Now that the three amigos are gone, the new council needs to start trimming and streamlining this organization or outsource it because $38 million is unacceptable.
There’s a night and day difference between Yorba Linda and Fullerton.
Yorba Linda’s OCSD contract calls for 24 full-time equivalent deputy sheriffs assigned to patrol/traffic duties, while Fullerton has something like 90-95 officers assigned to patrol/traffic (I forget the actual number).
It’s no secret that Fullerton has a lot more crime than Yorba Linda.
FPD is extremely top-heavy with management, I’ll give you that. OCSD would cost less to the City of Fullerton, but some of the taxes we pay as individuals go to the county which in turn go toward OCSD.
So the cost savings isn’t as real and sweet as it appears.
A chunk of it committed by the police department but I digress.
You missed the gist of the comparison. Yes Fullerton has more crime. We are talking NEARLY FOUR TIMES THE COST. There is something seriously wrong with the picture. I agree with you- It is time to get back to the basics- You don’t need 3 captains, other cities are combining duties to lessen the number of supervisors and put more street cops out. I think the budget could easily be dropped by $10 million.
Go back and read what I wrote. Yes, nearly 4 times the cost, but Fullerton has nearly 4 times the number of officers for patrol and traffic. I questioned in another reply whether the Traffic Bureau should be downsized and the officers reassigned to regular patrol duties. The Traffic Bureau (which includes the parking meter maids) doesn’t even pay for itself with the citations they write!
I’m in full agreement there is too much deadweight and other expenses that need to be addressed, but comparing costs between Fullerton and Yorba Linda is not helpful.
There are a lot of good ideas being discussed here.
In terms of the police, I think its worth thinking in terms of priorities first.
1. End police brutality. Respectful, professional LEOs only.
2. City council has local control over policing (as much as State law allows)
3. Lower total police-related expenditures.
I like Travis’s approach – don’t rush into anything, but get a cost estimate from OCSD, and then consider all options.
As far as reducing personnel, I agree with Snakes and others who think we could do with less police overall, and more focus on addressing serious crimes. That could include cutting the traffic bureau. It could also include following the lead of many cities such as Seattle which have mandated that police department treat some victimless crimes such as marijuana possession as “the lowest law enforcement priority.”
Fewer but more professional police officers focusing on more serious crimes is the way we should be going whether its the current FPD, OCSD, or a new reconstructed FPD.
I also like this approach.
David Ellis is a jerk and I hate him. He should be charged with a crime and we should vote racksucus out of office. Can we do that?
If he’s committed a crime, let’s get to it! Time for change is now!
My take on Traffic Citations is that the people who get them frequently enough are not afraid of being cited in the future. If the goal was to increase safety on the streets, all moving citations would carry fines in the THOUSANDS of dollars to the point drivers would actively avoid being cited. But we know that isn’t the case. Traffic citations = municipal fundraising.
But since the overtime problem is out of control, the net benefit to the city might be higher if the traffic cops could instead deal with assaults, burglaries, murders, rapes, etc.
Ask the city atty to answer that question before he is fired. Unless we are trapped in a sweetheart contract left behind by those three thieves. How about looking into reducing the many lucrative pension packages that those crooks designed to reward their suckpumps.
City Atty has already said he doesnt know, neither does the city manager or any of the councilmembers.
I hope the new crew don’t buckle under the corrupt opportunities that the CORRUPT FPD offers to remain undisturbed while they continue their street rackets until they fade away on early toyal disability pensions.
The corrupt criminal empire that operate under the guise as the FULLERTON POLICE DEPT needs to forfeit it’s collective bargaining rights.
Grace you are right those corrupt cold cops stood by bullshitting while Kelly was slowly executed in public view. Their coldness and cavelier attitude is deeply disturbing.
I’m sure Travis nor Greg will sign up for CalPers right?
I’m sure Trav,is nor Greg will sign up for CalPers right?
In no order:
Elimination of illegal water tax.
Immediate review of recent personnel appointments made by Joe Felz.
Review of the Slidebar noise nuisance problem / valet parking on public land issues.
Motion made to rename the transit center Kelly Thomas transit center.
Mayor Sharon quirk is not going to like these ideas.
Quirk was ok before becoming mayor, since she seems to hate that the people are thinking for themselves.
she was never okay.
So the cost savings isn’t as real and sweet as it appears.
How is it not real? If you save 13 million a year, you save 13 million a year. As Fullerton residents already pay into OCSD via the County, that’s all the more reason to use them and get some value out of it.
I understand hesitation to contract with OCSD because they’ve got their own problems and he cost of starting up FPD again, were it ever necessary, would be high, but the straight up cost savings per year from using OCSD cannot be disputed.
The $13 million is only real to the City of Fullerton at the government level. The cost savings comes from steep reductions in staffing, mainly in management, forensics, and the jail.
OCSD gets money from other sources which of course comes from taxpayers. I’m not denying there are cost savings attributed to economies of scale but plenty of overhead waste exists at OCSD and the pension problem gets transferred from Fullerton to the county, which means we, the taxpayers, are still screwed either way.
You lost me.
No kidding. Next you’ll tell me OCSD is a government agency.
Stop double talking. Its okay to say OCSD is cheaper than FPD.
How so?
OCSD gets funding that Fullerton doesn’t get. They can charge less for police services – in part because of the slush funds they have – courtesy of State and Federal handouts that originated from taxpayers like you and me.
They do save money by consolidating management and things like forensics and the jails. But OCSD wastes money in other ways which ultimately comes back to me and you.
The city would still have to pay the pension costs for deputies working in Fullerton.
Fullerton PD maintaining a jail is just foolish when you are already paying OCSD via property taxes to provide one. Huge cost savings there.
I agree, but in the grand scheme of things, Fullerton’s latest budget claims the jail only costs them about $500,000 annually (including salaries).
Close the FPD jail down for good. It’s nothing but a house of horrors for those that are sent there, as witnessed by the tragic death of Dean Gochenaur.
The OC Jail is operating at far less than capacity, and as other bloggers have pointed out, we are already paying for the OC Jail through our property taxes and federal taxation of income.
Finding and rooting out redundancy in government services should be the first step in our reformation.
A few ideas from the streets…
Fullerton and Brea are already working together with combined fire departments, would this work for joint Policing also by saving money and adding accountability?
OC surpervisor Shawn Nelson has already been working on pension reformon the county level, we could use his assistance in fullerton.
Ron Thomas willing to help with polictics by suggesting unincorparating the city like Anaheim and Whittier to have more control over local law.Money could be saved by less manates at the state level.(Wouldn’t he do a great job if he could be incorparated in training and a committie for police department accountability or a leadership role to help with reform.
A grass rootws citizens union to hold the police union in check.
No compromise on city liability closed door deals with a setlements fund for payouts. Always inform the public with complete transparency. Thats how the problems get resolved instead of swept under the rug and unresolved source of the problem.Stand up for the right priciples regardless of city liability.
” The right road always leads to the right place”.
“Ron Thomas willing to help with polictics by suggesting unincorparating the city like Anaheim and Whittier to have more control over local law.”
Amen to that! I live in Unincorporated Whittier, and the LA Co Sheriff substation that controls my area might as well be in another state, for all the good it does. The few times I have had to call them for assistance was very disappointing.
[Updated]Fullerton Police Records Request by Activists Met with Undue Silence
By
Gabriel San Roman
– June 6, 2012
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2012/06/fullerton-police-records-request-by-activists-met-with-undue-silence/
That would be chartering the city, not unincorporating (as opposed to remaining under California general law).
Dash cams in the police cruisers.
Yeah, it’ll cost money. But you’ll make it back easily if it helps prevent even one civil suit.
I also second the motion to name the transit center after Kelly. That was discussed here months ago I believe.
And every officer should carry a digital audio recorder. Trust me, they would think twice before abusing citizens if they knew everything they said was audio recorded.
And it should be written in policy that they are required to keep them turned on-or face discipline.
I wonder if there is anyway to monitor this from headquarters thru a computer program?
Yes, it costs money, but it, again, is well worth it to keep things honest and transparent.
I’m sure if they take away the free donuts, the money will be found.
May have to issue DARs to the public.
and if those audio and videos were automatically sent real time back to a server, and even IF they destroyed the equipment post audio/video, the evidence would be someplace else!
I agree that would work. At least until a pal or buddy at the station deleated them from the server. An IT tech could probably even delete from off site or online storage. How could that be stopped?
Only specific folks get the passwords to access the storage, and perhaps it goes to more than one storage facility as a back up precaution…. just thinking out loud here…
To keep the egos in check, they should rename the police station after Kelly Thomas.
I like Ron’s idea of Fullerton becoming a charter city where the Mayor is elected and the Mayor selects the Police Chief.
I also like the idea of Ron Thomas becoming the first Police Chief appointed by our first elected Mayor.
I can’t think of anyone that would be more motivated to see true reform within our police department.
Ron Thomas’ head is getting too big to fit through the door. I like the idea of him fighting for his son and then running his private charity.
sorry, I just threw up a little.
I think that’s a fantastic idea, even better than naming the bus station after him. Let’s do it!!!
THEY NEED TO BE REMOVED BEFORE THE CROOKS BUY OFF THE NEW CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. ANOTHER ORGANIZED MOVEMENT IS NEEDED LIKE NOW TO GET THESE FPD SOCIOPATHS ALL GONE.
GET RID OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING FOR THIEVING COPS.
We need help in finding a replacement for City Manager Felz, and probably the city attornys too. The head of the Evil City Monster must be removed, and or properly dealt with.
Im going to start studying other City governments, the information isnt easy to find.
Here is a really good guy, and a big hero of mine. Headline News Network/CNN
“Ten years ago this week, I enlisted in my state guard, which is an all-volunteer group known as the Georgia State Defense Force. When I first heard about this opportunity, I had no idea what the state guard was.
It turns out most of the work done by state guards is disaster relief. To prepare for duty, I train one weekend a month and attend an annual training retreat as well. As with all state defense forces, our missions can be in state, outside of the state or in very rare instances, missions of mercy beyond our country’s borders, such as when Haiti got hit by the brutal earthquake.
“http://www.clarkhoward.com/news/clark-howard/clark-cares/clark-talks-about-serving-state-guard/nFWYB/
good link.
http://www.clarkhoward.com/news/clark-howard/clark-cares/clark-talks-about-serving-state-guard/nFWYB/
Height and weight should be proportionate at all times and testing for fitness and ability to run further than 2 steps and up some stairs without collapsing should be mandated.
Yes, High Blood Sugar, can cause irritability (Type 2 Diabetes). High levels of fat in blood can cause aggresiveness. High body weight is highly associated to Murder Stats. We need Heroes not Bouncers and FOOLS!
And what about the people that have to have sex with them? 🙁
Fitness in body is definitely needed for this job.
Probably the fittest guys on the Planet, SUPERMEN.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“When 911 has to call 911”
Graduates of “Superman School” “The toughest Training Course on the Planet” where 90% washout, “Paradoctors” “The best of the best” “Silent Proffesionals” “Supermen”.
USAF Pararescuemen are the most highly trained Search and Rescuemen. Resposible for Pilot Recovery in the worst of conditions, NASA Security and Rescue at Launch and Astronaut Recovery. They can and do go anywhere, sometimes with a 80lb Rucksack that doubles as a Portable Operating Room.
Motto, “That Others May Live”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_Pararescue
“It is my duty as a Pararescueman to save lives and to aid the injured. I will be prepared at all times to perform my assigned duties quickly and efficiently, placing these duties before personal desires and comforts. These things I do, that others may live.”
Originally titled “The Code of the Air Rescueman”, it was penned by the first commander of the Air Rescue Service, (then) Lt. Col. Richard T. Kight and is also still used by the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center (AFRCC).
Anybody remember Bill Coronet. He was a pretty dominating City Manger back in the 1970s. Right now we need someone like him. And yes, Council needs to start the ball rolling to get a new police chief, hopefully someone with solid administrative skills and a legal background. How about a cop with a J.D.?
Amend Title 15 of the Muni Code to allow seriously sick people to access their medicine in designated industrial areas of the city (in compliance with HS 11362.5, et seq.). Feds be damned.
That and a “marijuana possession arrests as the lowest law enforcement priority” mandate to the police. Do both.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news%2Fpolitics&id=8692111
These city officials must be scared crapless. None of them know where the shoe is going to drop next. Felz and the City Atty. must be updating their resumes about now. Hughes must know his days are numbered as Chief. I would love to be a fly on the wall during the next contract negotiations between the City of Fullerton and their cops! 😀
Go after these lugnuts, City Council. And don’t waste any time. Hit them hard and fast. Turn the whole damn operation upside down. And if they backtalk you or give you any guff – FIRE THEM!!!
Time to set things straight. Don’t try to be conciliatory. Just tell them how it’s going to be and get out the mop and broom.
IT’S CLEANUP TIME! 😀
Does orange county have A D.A.’s special unit?
http://belmontshore.patch.com/articles/ex-detective-gets-5-years-for-long-beach-girlfriend-attack
First 100 days:
1) End the 10% water tax
2) Get a new City Attorney
3) Start fixing potholes
4) Solicit a bid for cop services from OCSD
So you think things are gonna change that quickly? Good luck if they change at all.
Um, I think things just changed on June 5th……
JD suffers from denial too, along with Lisa.
🙂
how about getting rid of your sh!t bars and drunk kids off your roads… if your going to put so much time into a stupid blog do it for something worthy. your towns sh!t because u never cared in the past. FullertonsApathy.org