ONE MORE TIME: McKinley Says “Council People Don’t Lead”

Uh, just give me a sec' over here...

The day before the election seems like a real good time to replay this sparkling jewel of a video; the one in which Patdown Pat McKinley admits his own failure to lead. It’s got to be real hard for any anti-recall stooges to suck up this one!! When you vote remember this McKinley proclamation: “Council people don’t lead.” 

Also, enjoy watching Patdown Pat’s sociopathic neck ligaments strain as he utters the damning indictment “failure to lead.”

– Joe Sipowicz

Here’s an illuminating admission by soon-to-be-recalled Councilmember “Patdown” Pat McKinley. The accusation that he has failed to lead fails to resonate with McPension since he denies that he is on the City Council to be a leader. The snippet below was culled from a long interview with the good folks at FullertonStories, here.

Well, Friends, there you have it. And you have a great example of why it’s almost always a bad idea to elect former staff members into political office.

And out of his own mouth McKinley admits and proclaims his own dismal failure to lead.

Chronic Failure Dead heads Dick Jones Don Bankhead Patdown Pat McPension Repuglicanism The Crime Beat The Culture of Corruption The Fullerton Recall Up In The Attic

219 thoughts on “ONE MORE TIME: McKinley Says “Council People Don’t Lead”

  1. This was just incredible. Indignantly, “City Councilman don’t lead. (Staff leads)” That’s it. Anybody that votes no on the recall deserves to drive through rubble and join Larry in enjoying paying there inflated water bill.

  2. McKinley says “lead” so often in this short clip that it is a mantra.
    To lead, to pull along, to tell others how to follow in his or her footsteps , is this McKinley’s idea of representative government? He dismisses the community of Fullerton as nothing more than ignorant people who have no right to demand justice for Kelly Thomas. Again, McKinley tells us a division exists between him and his cronies and the rest of us. I find McKinley’s political philosophy very odd because I thought the reason we have a city council is to represent the interests of the vox populi? Oh, I forgot. with McKinley, Jones and Bankhead in control of our town, we live in a police state

  3. And technically he HAS been accused of being a bad leader hundreds upon hundreds of times, especially if you take into account the comments at the city council.

  4. His utter contempt for all of us, the citizens of Fullerton is so crystal clear in the way he pauses after he says the phrase “failure to lead?”. We understand McKinley. You don’t like us. We are “those people.” “Aliens.” Not like blue-blooded, pillar-of-society you.

  5. Breathtaking admission. And that explains his motivation in the initial obfuscations, lies, and stalling.

  6. This attitude doesn’t surprise me at all. Department heads and the police chief, when they think of the council at all, view it as just an annoying impediment on the way to getting what they want.

    McKinley’s first priority has NEVER been to represent the citizens of Fullerton. He believes he is there to follow what the department heads tell him they want. Shameful.

  7. I remember the first and only Time I chatted with Tony Bushala. At a Kelly Thomas protest I told him all he needed to do was to get the three recallees in front of a camera and microphone as much as possible. Everytime these three speak more people support the recall.

  8. He doesn’t know what he got himself into when he ran for the city council. Wow, but wait, this is coming from a guy that said certain women is ok to be sexually assaulted in some women’s meet in Brea. If they ever make a male version of the movie Clueless, he should be the main character.

  9. Oh that must explain his non leading decision
    to con tinue to rip people off with the illegal water tax by “not using the money, but by acting as the daddy and putting it away in a “separate account”, for you without consulting you.

    And since he doesn’t lead, it’s not up to him or any of the councilmembers to be bothered to do an internet search or read about proposition 218.
    In fact, they most likely just sit around the new fangled computer waiting for Mannix to come on.

    No mention from City attorney about 218 either-he doesn’t lead either-I guess.

  10. Leadership will be demonstrated by 15000 voters throwing him out on his ass as the falling jacaranda blooms hit the ground on June 5th. Purple rain-a Prince song-how about that?

      1. I heard from a very good source that the absentee ballots already have the NO ON THE RECALL..way ahead…BAhahaha!!

        1. > I heard from a very good source that the absentee ballots already have the NO ON THE RECALL..way ahead…BAhahaha!!

          Ummm Cincinelli, The recall was approved by voters months ago.

          I’m still in shock that McKinley somehow through it was okay to let you on the force because your brain is seriously screwed up.

            1. “Shit for brains, you don’t know what the hell you are talking about. Hello?”

              We don’t understand why you chose to use three question marks at the end of your statement when only one is necessary. We assume that you were trying to provide emphasis on your question, but remember that one question mark means the same thing as three. Don’t use too many!

                1. Mr. Doe, we don’t understand why you chose to use three question marks at the end of your first statement and three exclamation points at the end of your statement. Only one is necessary at the end of each. We assume that you were trying to provide emphasis on your question and your subsequent statement, but remember that one question mark means the same thing as three. Same rule applies to exclamation points. Don’t use too many!

        2. “I heard from a very good source that the absentee ballots have come in, and the majority have supported a ‘NO’ vote on the recall”

          Be mindful of your sentence structure Mr. Doe, it’s much easier to understand what you’re saying when you phrase things correctly.

  11. “…we work on things…”

    Haha! That’s a classic. This boob can’t even explain what he does. Another gift from Ed Royce to the people of Fullerton.

  12. Is there anything in Fullerton named after Pat? Because, if there is, I think it should be renamed in honor of Kelly Thomas.

    1. I think there is a Pat McKinley police vest that he designed while on our dime yet we get no royalties for it. Hero Dicaprio where’s one all the time. Its a glorified flack jacket with a badge.

  13. Looking for various reasons as to why the Fullerton Police union or F.P.O.A is incorporated instead of a non-profit, I found a company called E & A properties which is co-owned by Jim Alexander who was the MWD scoundrel who was wining ad dining on tax dollars util being exposed by CBS 2 News.
    The interesting part of this link is that it says that it also links to Barry Coffman President of the FPOA “Corporation”?

    http://www.corporationwiki.com/California/Fullerton/e-a-properties-llc/45982221.aspx

  14. Dick Jones( Mayor at the time of incident) views on leadership http://fullertonstories.com/election-pt-ii-the-incumbents/
    8:25 “We have a police department….. Leadership was somewhat lacking at the top when this was heard.”
    When Dick Jones was asked early on if the Chief could make a statement to the media to say anything that would address what happened he stated ,” You don’t try things without a judge… You don’t start talking about things…” 0:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w84LUUYWrsIwhich completely evaded the question pertaining to leadership speaking out about kelly thomas.

  15. Mr. McKinley’s words disclose a narrow and limited view of manhood and life which might in fact be endemic within Police forces.

    Police take on lots of “military” type trappings, but they are NOT military AT ALL. In military situations you HAVE TO GO INTO BATTLE. In police business you don’t. Police work is a job with LOTS of phony paraphenalia larded on top, which most normal police men (probably) don’t get caught up in.

    But the McKinley notion of Police type leadership is to be somewhere in the pecking order and to give “orders” that are within your rule book and which you view in terms of how they will be second guessed (or covered up).

    Guys like that HIDE within and under lots of officious cover. So a “council” job is just made to order for such a go along get along mentality.

    Alternatively, a normal man gets elected to or hired onto a board of directors and he asserts himself, his knowledge, IN CONCERT with the knowledge and wisdom of other, fellow board members or council members. He isn’t hiding there, that is a womanly feminine “committee” approach which McKinley evidently thinks or thought that he had joined, instead of THE city council.

    VERY early on (as a matter of fact, it was the first experience) in my career I had to answer this underlying question of when and how you LEAD and I answered the interviewing panel in essentially the exact way that I discussed it here. I got that job and did very well in it.

    I can readily see why McKinley does not understand what went wrong and what his role was in all of it.

    McKinley and Bankhead and Jones REALLY need to be recalled-removed from our City Council.

    Greg Sebourn, Travis Kiger and Barry Levinson have shown themselves in many ways and on many occasions to be very well suited to provide courage and strength (from actual knowledge, experience and research work) to provide the LEADERSHIP which we need to support Bruce Whitaker (and I like Mrs. Quirk-Sliva also, too bad she is a member of an utterly horrid philosophically Political Party) on our City Council.

  16. Will someone please correct me if I am wrong………..In reference to JD’s claim above regarding mail in ballots……they have not been counted yet and will only be counted after all polling locations have reported their vote counts.

    1. They are counted as they come in, the totals are the first announced on election night. You can go to Ocvote.com to find the number of total ballots turned in as of now.

    2. That is correct. Votes are kept secret until after the polls close on the 5th. He has no idea how the races are going.

  17. If we say we don’t lead, we cannot be accused of a failure to lead? Well, okay. You work on things? Well, you failed at that, too. Furthermore, it is not true that you’ve never been accused of poor leadership. And since you threw that in about police chief’s leading, then we may need to point out that YOU are the police chief who brought the LAPD brutality mentality to FPD and the good people of Fullerton after it all fell apart in L.A. You were the police chief leader who hired the overwhelming majority of FPD officers who have been accused of or charged with crimes. You are the police chief leader who trained all of them. You bragged that as police chief you hired them all. So even when you try to evade responsibility by claiming council members are not leaders but declaring the police chief is a leader you are indicting yourself.

    1. Cincinelli is too busy shitting a brick over the upcoming trial/prison stay. He won’t be on the Fullerton streets ever again, why would he care about the recall?

  18. At the end of this clip McKinley says he’s never been accused of being a poor leader. One of the most bizarre statements I have heard from a sober person in a long time.

    Uh, Pat, the whole point of the recall is that 18,000 people registered to vote in Fullerton are accusing you of……..? That’s right, a failure to lead. In english this is the same as people accusing you of being a poor leader/ lacking the ability to lead.

    Now I would expect that Pat disagrees he has failed to lead but consider that he doesn’t even feel leadership factors in to being a councilman and who knows what the hell this guy is trying to actually communicate.

    Alzheimers?

      1. Criteria for diagnosing Narcisstic Personality Disorder…

        “Behavior or a fantasy of grandiosity, a lack of empathy and a need to be admired by others. As indicated by at least five of the following:

        Grandiose sense of self-importance.
        Fantasies of and preoccupied with beauty, brilliance, ideal love, power, or unlimited success.
        A belief of being special and unique and can only be understood or a need to associate with people of high status.
        A need for excessive admiration.
        An unreasonable expectation of being treated with favour or excepting an automatic compliance to her / his wishes.
        Will use others to achieve her / his goals.
        Lacks empathy.
        Believes others are envious of her / him or is envious of others.
        Contemptuous or haughty attitudes / behaviours.”
        Often NPD doesn’t stand alone. Suffers of NPD may suffer from elements of other personality disorders. This is due mainly to the fact that it is not possible to define an exact set of criteria for each personality disorder which will apply to all cases. Personality disorders are a relatively new field of research and it is likely the criteria used to define specific disorders will change over time.

        Most sufferers diagnosed with NPD are men.

  19. “I’ve never been accused of being a poor leader… ever.”

    Are lack of hearing and poor reading comprehension also characteristics of a narcissist?

  20. “I’ve never been accused of being a poor leader. Ever.”

    And there you have it. Megalomania, narcissism, denial of reality.

  21. Soon we will be free from this tyranny and not have to deal with the three blind mice.

    The next step is to start holding Ed Royce accountable for the problems he has given us on the local level. Ed has back these dinosaurs since he was first elected and still continues to support these old men. We need Ed to either start vetting his choices or stop endorsing. It’s time for real leadership.

  22. We will be back here again if Fullerton votes for Doug Chaffee or Matt Rowe. One is open about being a liberal the other is hiding behind his “independent” party. Neither of these two are leaders.

    1. You can call McKinley a lot of things – “Satanic”, “nasty”, “prune-like”, “bald”, “chuckle-headed”, “misogynist”, “arrogant”, “an elite scumbag”, “reprehensible”, “sociopath”, “a douche-bag” – but “liberal” is not one of them.

      1. Incorrect. He is very liberal. He represents big, unaccountable government in every way. Which may explain why he has the support of Fullerton’s old guard lefties.

        1. Social liberals favor abortion rights, gay rights, civil rights, etc. Is McKinley in this camp?

          Fiscal liberals favor government spending focused on poverty alleviation, social welfare, government-provided services, government spending to ease unemployment, general Keynesianism. Is McKinley this kind of liberal?

          McKinley favors lots of spending on police for the mere reason that he was one and his buddies still are. He favors giving money to his friends who are developers through redevelopment and other crooked schemes. These are neither liberal nor conservative principles. Just plain old corruption.

          1. Big government advocates ALWAYS favor whatever accretes more power to government. Lots of liberal stuff.

            The fact that McKinley was on that county Human Relations Commission of Rusty Kennedy speaks volumes.

            Plenty of room for corruption, too.

            1. Liberals are almost always fans of big government but big government advocates aren’t always liberal. Almost every conservative politician out there is a big government advocate too. They may prefer making the military really big, or law enforcement, or prisons, or all plus their corporate buddies in whatever industry they’re getting contributions from, but they’re still big government enablers, and they’re not liberals.

              Which doesn’t mean the liberals in this town haven’t been corrupted too. Seems like a lot of them have. Just you look at Pat McKinley and what he stands for and its a stretch to say that’s liberalism. Conservative, law and order big government. Pretty much the norm for the GOP.

    2. Being an independent makes me not a leader? That’s ironic. I think that being partisan is a lack of leadership. My leadership experience comes from leading 36 men on more than 300 combat missions. My leadership experience comes from starting a business. My leadership experience comes from running a city council campaign and using my real name to stand behind everything I say. Tell me, Anonymous, how in the hell are you qualified to criticize me about leadership? What have you ever done for your city or your country, other than slander people with the actual courage to get things done?

      Sincerely,
      Matt Rowe

        1. “Upon graduation and receiving his commission as a field artillery officer in the U.S. Army, Matt was assigned to the 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, in Schweinfurt, Germany. During the unit’s 15-month deployment to Iraq in 2006-2007, Matt led a platoon of three dozen soldiers in daily combat operations, protecting the army’s EOD bomb squads throughout the “Surge” in Baghdad. Matt was promoted to the rank of Captain and received the Bronze Star Medal and Combat Action Badge. His next assignment was with the 2nd Infantry Division’s 210th Fires Brigade (Artillery), at Camp Casey, South Korea. Matt left active duty after completing his 5-year service obligation in South Korea.”

          http://rowe4fullerton.com/about/

          1. Having served I’d like to know what are “Combat Operations?” I know an admin officer that got a bronze star for saving the army a bunch of money and he claimed he served in a combat operation everyday.

            1. Not sure if you’ve had a chance to meet Matt, but if you do– ask him about the bracelet he wears. I’m not going to politicize that story, but it’s safe to say that Matt’s Iraq experience significantly differs from your admin officer’s story.

              If you’d like to hear about it, please e-mail him. It’s more appropriate for a vet to vet conversation than to be posted here.

              [email protected]

            2. No, I’ll answer this one. My soldiers and I protected the EOD teams (Explosive Ordnance Disposal teams) in Baghdad in ’06-’07. We provided route security and on-site security as our EOD teams attempted to detonate or diffuse IEDs (bombs) around the city. We also protected US Army Corps of Engineers and Joint Project Management Office teams who did reconstruction work around the city. Daily combat operations means exactly that – we went out, day and night, where we were often shot at or targeted with IEDs. My Humvee was hit by an IED in January 2007 in Ghaziliya. Fortunately, my soldiers and I were not injured, thanks to our Frag-5 door kit that was brand new. I don’t “claim” to have served in combat; I did. You apparently have doubts about this, so I’m going to post my DD214 on my website after I black out my SSN…Unbelievable.

              1. Matt, I respect your courage to militarily serve our country. I disagree with Condoleeza Rice’s foreign policy “democratization of the world” where wars used as tools for planting the seeds of democracy. Vice-President Biden inadvertently summed up our Southwest Asian foreign policies with his comment on the first democratic elections in Iraq(I paraphrase) our guys(US troops) can shoot straight and kill any Iraqi who interferes with Iraq’s democratic elections.
                Matt, Rice and Biden are our leaders, they lead us to believe that conquest is the manifest destiny of democracy; democratization of the world is an oxymoron as its strength lays in its grass roots instead of blooming at the end of a rifle

            1. Oh haha, the next time a grunt has any say over which war he will participate in, just let me know.

              Asshole, and I mean that sincerely.

            2. Liberty,

              Fortunately for you, the United States Armed Services ensure the liberty you share with your neighbors, which allows you to post with a pseudonym that mocks their sacrifice.

              Thank God and country that you’re able to express your opinion of our veterans. I trust you don’t pay your taxes and are working on moving to Switzerland in protest of your government’s involvement in illegal wars. Good luck with that. If not, I trust you enjoy being a hypocrite. In which case, good luck with that, also.

            3. That’s way out of line. Guys like Matt have absolutely no say so in choosing which wars to fight, Matt’s only choices are to follow orders, and do his level best to protect the lives that are entrusted to him.

              Great job Matthew Rowe! I for one applaud and admire your honorable service to our country.

      1. Well, no, that’s not true at all. If you believe in the false dilemma supporting a two party system, then perhaps you’re right.

        Registering and running as an Independent is as transparent a decision as any candidate can make. It says I’m for ideas and solutions that I believe in; I’m not for solutions to ideas that others tell me to believe. Perhaps that isn’t “conservative” or “liberal” enough for some voters, but that’s also entirely the point.

        http://rowe4fullerton.com/uncategorized/independent-not-no-party-preference/

        Perhaps you don’t agree and that’s fine– but this isn’t a game of smoke and mirrors. Matt has taken solid positions on issues (and only one stance per issue) impacting Fullerton, which can’t be said about others running in this race. If you want to make an accusation about ducking questions and fence sitting on issues, direct them at the appropriate candidate.

  23. Tomorrow may be one of those days where ol’ Pat might just ask himself why he ever left the great State of Minnesota!

  24. “never been accused of being a poor leader” Let us confront McKinley’s opinion with the just the facts. How many persons abused by the fullerton PD got how many millions of our tax revenue from legal settlements for these same persons? How many times were McKinley’s boys, the FPD internally reprimanded for civil rights abuses? How many of McKinley’s boys on the FPD resigned or were fired for their abuse towards our community?
    the answer to the first question is millions of tax dollars, the answer to the last two questions may be zero. Never accused of being a poor leader? No one has to accuse Mckinley of this flaw, it is screamed out every time the FPD commits another crime upon us.

  25. All of this because a BUM who was breaking into cars wanted to fight the police. EIGHT lawful commands were disobeyed — his failure to cooperate is what killed him, and he is responsible for his own demise.

    The Fullerton Police were just doing their duty that we hired them to do : to protect us and protect our property from thuggish ANIMALS like Kelly Thomas.

    http://friendsforjay.org/

    1. The smallest and coldest circle of hell is reserved for people like you, who blame victims. Enjoy.

        1. Mr. Pooped a Matt:

          Please note the following corrections to your prior statement:

          “For the record, Hell doesn’t have cold spots”.

          Always start your sentences with a capital letter, use commas when necessary, and remember that ‘Hell’ is a proper noun and thus should always be capitalized.

            1. Mr/Mrs. Pooped a Matt:

              Please note the following corrections to your prior statement:

              “I am not ever GOING to use your grammar, so shove (your grammar) up YOUR pie hole…wanker.”

              Remember the proper number of periods in an ellipsis is three, and please begin sentences with a capital letter, and end them with a period.

    2. Ms. Lisa:

      Please note that BUM is not the politically correct term. We prefer to call them ‘homeless’ or in rare cases ‘home deprived’.

      Also note that there has never been a confirmed case of someone being killed by ‘failure to cooperate’. The only way this would be feasible is if their heart ‘failed to cooperate’ with their body – but in that case we would refer to the more common term of ‘heart attack’.

      Hope this helps.

    3. I thought they were hired to protect and serve vulnerable people like Kelly, not attack, maim, and murder them. However, if it is in fact true that they were hired to kill people like Kelly, then it only confirms the rightness of the recall and further validates that McKinley, who hired all these officers, is responsible for Kelly’s death along with the F6. Thank you for clearing that up.

    4. “BUM” is the key word that justified the FPD meting out a death sentence to Kelly Thomas. Thomas just a bum, a person with no economic value and thus not human. You can’t convict police officers of murder if they don’t kill a human .
      The evil in Fullerton runs deep. On one hand, we have the fullerton task force on homelessness where it’s leader, Rusty Kennedy, deflects Pat McKinley, his OCHRC colleague, goon squad of murder by stating Thomas’ death was due to community apathy towards the homeless, and on the other hand we have Lisa who says no murder was committed because Thomas was homeless and thus not human.
      Here are the facts: Thomas was homeless and human and it was not apathy but the fists,knees,tasers, clubs wielded by the FPD that directly caused his death

  26. Pat couldn’t lead water down hill but he can do a pretty good Freddy Krueger impression with that hat.

  27. Lisa :
    All of this because a BUM who was breaking into cars wanted to fight the police. EIGHT lawful commands were disobeyed — his failure to cooperate is what killed him, and he is responsible for his own demise.
    The Fullerton Police were just doing their duty that we hired them to do : to protect us and protect our property from thuggish ANIMALS like Kelly Thomas.
    http://friendsforjay.org/

    I have yet to find in the penal code, UCC, case law, or The Constitution where being a confused, schizo smart ass warrants the death penalty. I do believe that if agents of the state determined that Kelly was an enemy combatant then the it may have been warranted according to the Patriot Act and the NDAA was signed into law making the entire country a war zone. Wait a minute! Kelly was murdered before the NDAA was enacted. Houston we have a problem. Hey didnt Royce vote to enact the Patriot Act and the NDAA? Funny I keep getting mailers from him. This is oh so creepy. You all need to put on your “they live” glasses.

    1. I believe that since now the President personally gets to decide which Middle Eastern men he can classify as terrorists and launch drones at, he could have done the following: had Kelly Thomas picked up and taken under “rendition” to a Middle Eastern country, where he could have been released and then blown up with a drone. However, as of this time, the Federal government is not yet empowered to launch drone missiles at terrorists within the domestic US. Therefore the “bums are terrorists and thus we have the right to assassinate them” argument does not yet hold water legally. Given a second Obama term, or a Mittens term for that matter, it may well soon.

      1. Just insert any ” US citizen” in place of “middle eastern men” as that is the demonic spirit of the law. We have problems extending far past the low level municipal PD in Fullerton. However at this time this is where the rubber meets the road. May tomorrow’s results be favorable to the cause of justice and freedom for the good people of Fullerton. It is certainly an uphill battle with so many slumbering and oblivious to the reality of the present day.

  28. ORIGINAL POST OC Weekly, MAY 24, 4:30 P.M.: Anyone who’s been to Bootlegger’s Brewery in the last, say, six months or so has to have noticed that it’s always packed to the gills. The Fullerton brewery has become so popular that patrons of the tasting room have to compete with larger and larger beer tanks, which are necessary to keep the rest of the county (and those other, lesser places beyond the Orange Curtain) awash in Knuckle Sandwich, Rustic Rye, and Golden Chaos.

    The brewery, whose lease at 401 S. Richman St. is up in August, has made no secret of the fact that they want need to move to larger digs. They’re planning to have a tasting room at 130 S. Highland Ave. (just west of Harbor) and a larger production facility elsewhere… except that their current landlord, Tony Bushala, has filed against their Conditional Use Permit.

    Bushala, best known as a very wealthy anti-bad government crusader, is apparently an anti-craft beer crusader too, or perhaps an anti-craft-beer-not-on-property-he-owns crusader. (Why else would a libertarian oppose a business that’s done well enough to need to expand?)

    Bootlegger’s needs you, beer-philes of Orange County. Specifically, they need you to show up at the Fullerton City Council meeting at 6:30 p.m. on Tuesday, June 5 at the council chambers, 303 W. Commonwealth Avenue.

    Sign your name to speak during the public comment period, and tell them what a valuable part of Fullerton Bootlegger’s is. No conditional-use permit, no beer. No TV and no beer make Homer something something!

    It’s not good for Fullerton unless the Building is owned by Bushala. For this is Fullertons future.

    1. The appeal is against the hours of operation and the occupancy. Who ever heard of “beer tasting” ’til two o’clock in the morning?

      BTW, that open “patio” will be right across the street from the new Dick Ackerman low income housing project. I guess poor folks and bars go together in the City’s mind, right?

    2. Yeah that’s all the downtown Fullerton area needs is another bar to drink cheap beer at, so are cops can hand out DUI’s to them later and make the cover of MADD magazine.

    3. You must be that clown that went on KFI today. The said clown referenced this article on OC Weekly while using the term bully when referring to Tony.

      Last time I checked, if you OWN property, you have rights. If Bootlegger’s doesn’t like it, they can purchase their own property instead or lease somewhere else. It’s that simple.

      STOP posting under different handles Larry Bennett. Don’t come on here pretending to be a Bootlegger’s supporter. Be a man and state your real agenda, that your are Anti-Recall because you want your buddies on council to remain.

  29. I would like to point out that the reason Tony won’t allow Bootlegger’s to possess a new CUP is because there is a SINGLE FAMILY HOME RIGHT NEXT TO WHERE THEY WANT TO PUT AN OPEN PATIO BAR. Tony is concerned for the welfare of the family, or were you not aware of that?

  30. There is only one home on that street. The rest is a parking structure and commercial property. Bushala will have that house torn down within six months. Who are you kidding?

  31. Thank you for admitting the fact that you approve of opening what will essentially be another bar right next to a home where small children reside.

    You can justify it any way you wish, but the fact remains that a BAR has no place next to a family home.

    Who are you kidding?

  32. I rest my case. Tell people ALL the facts. Don’t try to get them on your side with half-truths.

    1. We need another bar like a freaking hole in the head…where have you been? drinking?

      Go to another city and boost their local economy, and take the barfing drunken DTF idiots with you.

  33. If this were an issue of greed and corruption, don’t you think it would be in Tony’s best interest to let Bootlegger’s move forward with their plans and raise the rent?

  34. Holy hell, did anyone else hear Lawrence “just call me honest Larry” Bennett on KFI trying to state his case to Bill Carroll?
    He sounded like a complete moob. I was cheering when BC said “I don’t get what the big deal is about someone wanting to pay for a recall” “isn’t that allowed”

    1. I heard it! It was great to hear Bill Carroll challenge him and not take his every word as fact.

      Did you notice that Benett referenced the OC Weekly article on Bootlegger’s Brewery and called Tony a bully.

      Now there is someone on here using the handle ‘Bushala Bully’ referencing that same article.

      1. Yeah, I heard that mentally ill man mention that there was something “sinister” going on and point out 1 damn article as proof that Tony B is evil,
        as well as because of some “sweet redevelopment deals”.

        No proof was offered about the 3 moron’s records-only irrelevant attacks on Tony B.

        Larry sounded like a big fool. BC was not having any of his BS.

  35. Rowe4Fullerton :
    Well, no, that’s not true at all. If you believe in the false dilemma supporting a two party system, then perhaps you’re right.
    Registering and running as an Independent is as transparent a decision as any candidate can make. It says I’m for ideas and solutions that I believe in; I’m not for solutions to ideas that others tell me to believe. Perhaps that isn’t “conservative” or “liberal” enough for some voters, but that’s also entirely the point.
    http://rowe4fullerton.com/uncategorized/independent-not-no-party-preference/
    Perhaps you don’t agree and that’s fine– but this isn’t a game of smoke and mirrors. Matt has taken solid positions on issues (and only one stance per issue) impacting Fullerton, which can’t be said about others running in this race. If you want to make an accusation about ducking questions and fence sitting on issues, direct them at the appropriate candidate.

    The reason I sound like a broken record is because Matt refuses to specifically define what being independent means to him.

    All we know is he left the Republican party to be an independent and he agrees with Republicans on some things and agrees with Democrats on others. That doesn’t tell us anything.

    A person could denounce their conservative values, become a communist, and register as an independent. Am I saying that Matt is a communist? Nope. I just don’t know where he stands on the political spectrum.

    I find it strange that an “independent” would align himself with Rands and Georgieff, both of whom are left of center liberals.

    Matt isn’t telling the full story. Something isn’t adding up.

    1. To be clear, some voters have selected Rowe-Rands-Georgieff as their preferred candidates.

      None of the candidates will state that they’ve aligned with each other. You’re loading an intention upon the candidates that doesn’t exist.

      To your final statement, I’d be leery of any candidate who can tell you exactly what shade of grey they are on the political spectrum. Frankly, that’s your job to decide and not something that a candidate should be broadcasting.

      I think you’re forgetting that there isn’t a shade of grey on the spectrum that’s labelled “Independent”. That’s just not how it works. If you need to vote based on how your candidate fits into box A or box B, well, you have options . . . We don’t think that’s necessary.

        1. Mr. Rowe4Fullerton:

          It’s okay, everyone makes mistakes. Even we do from time to time.

          Please note that there is much debate over the correct spelling of ‘gray/grey’. In this case we would have accepted either one.

          May we be the first to wish you the best of luck in the coming fiscal year.

            1. Mr. Nonymous:

              Perhaps you are unaware, but America is not the only country in the world, and other countries – in this case Great Britain – spell words differently, gray/grey being one of them. Let us also refer you to the british spelled words ‘colour’, ‘shoppe’, and ‘flavour’.

              Welcome to the world Mr. Nonymous, hopefully someday you can experience it.

                1. Mr. Nonymous:

                  May we point out that the only people on this planet who use the term “fail” are under the age of 16, or have an equivalent mental capacity.

                  When referring to you as ‘Mr. Nonymous’ we, The Grammar Police, were being facetious since we prefer to adress all members by their last name. In the event of only one name we may decide to “invent” a surname (last name), which in your case turned out to be ‘Nonymous’.

                  Also, if you insist on using the term ‘fail’, don’t you think that a ‘sad fail’ is a bit redundant given that any type of ‘fail’ is inevitably sad?

                1. “You can’t spell, get over it!”

                  Punctuation and capitalization are key Mr/Mrs. Pooped a Matt.

      1. I can understand people being frustrated with Doug Chaffee. I also understand the lack of alternatives if you are a liberal voter in Fullerton.

        Some of the biggest liberals in Fullerton are enthusiastically supporting Rowe over Chaffee. This is evidenced by verbal/written endorsements and the campaign signs in their front yards. What I find puzzling is the lack of conservative voters vouching for Matt alongside Sebourn and Kiger.

        A truly independent candidate should attract people from both sides and I’m just not seeing it.

      2. You’re last point about shades of gray on the political spectrum is EXACTLY what I’ve been talking about. I don’t need, nor necessarily want, a candidate that fits into box A or box B. The logical fallacy you guys are perpetuating looks like this:

        You want everybody to believe Matt is independent, therefore Not A and Not B.
        But when pressed on the issues, Matt says he sometimes agrees with Republicans and sometimes with Democrats, thus Sometimes A and Sometimes B.

        No matter how you try to spin it, your logic doesn’t make sense.

        1. Yes, sometimes A and sometimes B– depending on the argument and which benefits Fullerton the most. I’m honestly not trying to spin this or fool anyone.

          I (Matt’s campaign manager) have been a Republican for 12 years. I don’t agree with Matt on some issues, but I support him because I believe he’ll make Fullerton a better place for my two kids to grow up in. You’re welcome to ask around for other conservative votes– but I can only vouch for myself.

    2. Yeah. Somethin’ just ain’t addin’ up.

      Rowe, Rands and Georgieff are being funded by the Socialist Internationale. First thing they’re gonna do is raise all of your taxes by 3000%r percent. Next they’re gonna put more potholes in the street so your car breaks a couple more times. After that they’re gonna make the library even worse by getting more novels and other stuff adults aren’t interested in and they’re gonna get rid of any books on personal taxes that might still be around. After that they’re gonna declare the City’s official religion Wicca, legalize brothels within the city limits and start a needle exchange at the Muckenthaler Center. Public fornication will be the new rule, and Pop Warner will be eliminated to make room for the new hackysack league. They’ll probably even remove creationism from the Fullerton school agenda. Oh, and every time you drink from a tap you’ll be taking a trip as those hippies spike the wells with LSD. Police officers will have flowers instead of tasers and all cop cars will be Honda Insights.

      GODDAM IT!

    3. Just for clarification Matt might have been registered Republican in the first place because he was interning for Royce. Which I just found out is extremely easy and apparently Royce just wants warm bodies. Jay Chen a democrat running against Royce also interned for him. Either Royce is secretly breeding liberals or there is no betting process. I’m going with the later.

      Also another interesting fact Anthony Adams (turncoat republican that voted to raise taxes a couple of years ago) is running for congress in San Bernardino and he is an independent now too. He says thing like raising taxes are good for Californians.

      Independent seems like a great place to be.

      Btw the way agree there is no gray in politics however it’s not a straight line either. Take a political test and let us know what quadrant you land in. I’m a liberaterian to no way I’ll be supporting Rowe. I’ll suck up the social issues for the fiscal ones this time. No to Rands and Rowe also Chaffee.

    4. Oh Snakes, you should be accustomed to things not adding up for you. It’s quite common with folks that form opinions before they gather information.

      Here is why this one did not “add up”. I invited Matt, Jane and Glenn to my house to speak to over 70 my friends and neighbors (thanks for loaning me the chairs Tony). I organized this not the candidates. I did so because these are the three which I am supporting in this recall election. I correctly thought that if my friends had a chance to meet them many would feel the same. I also correctly knew that the candidates speak to the same 150 involved citizens at all the other candidate forums, and that my event would benefit the three of them as it gave them access to voters who do not attend the other debates in person, but they do vote. Matt, Jane and Glenn were kind enough to accept my invitation and by all accounts it as a great evening filled with frank discussions. The candidates themselves simply accepted my invitation and I assure you there was no other “alignment”. Unlike most people, I can vote for candidates with whom I differ on policy , especially in local elections. On paper I agree with Chaffee the most, but yet I support Matt Rowe. I vote for the person I believe has similar goals to mine, and the convictions and courage to carry them out, even if we disagree on how to get there. I do this because when something Kelly’s murder comes along, it is character that rules the day, not political theory. That’s why Bruce stepped up in the aftermath of Kelly’s beating, and the other 4 did not. My candidates need to have a moral north (morals in this case have not religious implication) that guides their decisions consistently. Matt Rowe, Jane Rands and Glenn Georgieff all do. That’s why you did not get a fraudulent slate mailer from them, like I did from Barry. Character!

    1. Tony hopes she wins, Tony will spend 200k to get Norby re-elected to the Fullerton City Council. Just another puppet on Bushala’s string.

    2. Sorry, I dont often refer to a candidates own website for “news” about their own campaign or that of their opponent.

  36. Moob. That’s funny!

    I heard the interview on KFI, all the way out here in Palm Springs. I’m wondering if Tony Bushala will accept Bill’s invitation to appear on the show tomorrow.

  37. I just had some scary thoughts, we have, Feinstein/Boxer. Someday we could have Sanchez/Silva. Be very scared.

      1. You are right, what should I wash my mouth out with? Maybe I should just choke on the matching scarfs….This left stains in my mind.

    1. Yeah I messed that formatting up something fierce, clearly this is directed at Snakes.

      Teddy Roosevelt was so disillusioned with the parties of the time that he left them and created a new one. No one ever accused TR of not having a position or lacking leadership.

      1. He was already president and yes a lot
        Of people did accuse him of not being a leader, around 40% of the country that voted for the other guy.

        1. Wow I’ve read some nonsense around here but that deserves some kind of award. Not a good kind of award, mind you..

  38. It’s almost party time.

    ONE MORE DAY!!!

    I have a prediction to make:

    THE THREE STOOGES LOSE BY A LANDSLIDE AND CONCEDE DEFEAT BY 10PM!!!!!

    YIPPPEEEEEE!!!!

    DANCING IN THE STREETS, FULLERTON!!!!!

    PUT ON YOUR RED DRESS AND MONKEY SUITS AND PARTY HARDY IN FRONT OF CITY HALL!!!

    YIPPPEEEEEE!!!!

    1. Humor is wasted on snakes. Evolve, dude! Meanwhile, how pathetic is it to put flyers, including a page-long screed from one’s wife, under the wipers of parked cars? If Doug Chaffee did anything even half this pathetic, the wave of contempt from here would tilt the earth’s axis.

      1. I’ll tell you what’s pathetic. Spending your Sunday afternoon removing flyers on parked cars with a video camera running.

        I don’t appreciate what you did. Why? Years ago I was issued a parking ticket and some kids thought it would be funny to steal it and throw it away. That didn’t go over well when it didn’t get paid.

        So stop touching people’s cars, you assclown! If there is paperwork under my windshield wiper leave it there and don’t come close to my car. Got it?

        1. Wow, a real busy candidate the day before his election.

          Stealing flyers off cars?

          What. A. Loser.

  39. I’ll be waiting anxiously for what I hope will be a landslide.

    Knock ’em dead! (figuratively speaking of course)

  40. The people will have spoken. Thank you Fullerton for standing up for what is right. Thanks to John and Ken for their support!!!!

  41. And if the recall fails?

    Is there a Plan B?

    This is all about justice for Kelly, correct?

    Like it or not, the world is watching this one.

  42. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlUzQgFqlZM

    Once again, please submit documented written proof of your accusations that show Mr. Levinson is, indeed, not in current possession of a permit to distribute flyers and proof that it was Mr. Levinson who was the distributing them on cars, hearsay is not permitted, only factual documented proof shall be deemed as valid. Accusing a man of being criminally unlawful, without proof is considered harrassment.

    We feel as someone who has passed the state bar and is considered an officer of the court, that you should know this. In any case please provide you documented proof.

    1. Hearsay is permitted outside of court, such as in a Grand Jury proceeding, which is what I’ve come to think FFFF considers itself to be.

      As Barry is not a commercial product or service for sale (being already leased for all political purposes by Tony), he has no basis to receive such a permit. I do have testimony that it was in fact Barry — and he has not denied it.

      Barry is welcome, if he wishes, to bring a court case against me for harassment — but he should beware of joinder and counterclaims. Then, if you want proof, you shall have it.

      1. As mentioned, please provide proof with your accusations, the burden of proof is with you not Mr. Levinson. Hearsay is not responsible journalism which you are intending to achieve bywriting an article about your video. Mr. Levinson is a private citizen that you are harrassing.

        Testimony not sworn in a court, is hearsay. Provide written documents only with your accusatons.

      2. this is rhetoric when interpreted means he really has no idea if his opponent has a permit to distribute flyer but he’ll throw it out and hope it sticks

  43. The flyer’s were not on all cars on that street. It could have been staged.

    In any event, it was petty at best

    1. It had happened some time earlier. Some cars may have left, some new ones may have arrived, some car owners may have driven away and then returned, some may have disposed of the flyers in question, and some may have tried reading them and tragically tried to fatally wound themselves. Tragic, really.

  44. The Grammar Police :“You can’t spell, get over it!”
    Punctuation and capitalization are key Mr/Mrs. Pooped a Matt.

    thats an improper noun,
    and you cant spell
    LOSER,LOSER YES YOU ARE A LOSER

    1. “I have not yet begun to fight!” -John Paul Jones, 1779

      “Life’s hard. It’s even harder when you’re stupid.” -John Wayne

      “Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” -John Wayne

      1. “Sorry don’t get it done, Dude.” –John Wayne, Rio Bravo (1959)

        “I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” – John Wayne, Shootist (1976)

  45. “The men behind the American Revolution – the militias, the Minutemen, and the signers of the Declaration of Independence, as well as the framers of the Constitution – were the very opposite of the mob. Today we would call them ‘Republicans,’” she writes at one point in the book

    “Liberals’ history is not this country’s history – theirs is the history of the mob,”

    “”The demon is a mob, and the mob is demonic. The Democratic Party activates mobs, depends on mobs, coddles mobs, publicizes and celebrates mobs—it is the mob. Sweeping in its scope and relentless in its argument, Demonic explains the peculiarities of liberals as standard groupthink behavior. To understand mobs is to understand liberals.”

    “Four years of Jimmy Carter gave us two titanic Reagan landslides, peace and prosperity for eight blessed years – and even a third term for his feckless vice president, George H.W. Bush.”

    ANN COULTER is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of Guilty, If Democrats Had Any Brains, They’d Be Republicans, Godless, How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must), Treason, Demonic…, Slander, and High Crimes and Misdemeanors.

  46. “Democrats spent a hundred years enforcing legal discrimination against blacks, or — at best — dragging their heels on enforcing black civil rights, but then turned around and crowed for fifty years about a friendly call to Mrs. King…”

    1. “In California, as in many other states, the public employee unions have totally corrupted California state government. Public employee unions have become the most powerful ‘special interest’ group in Sacramento and use their enormous influence to bribe ( “campaign contributions” ) neo-liberal politicians . As a result, California’s state and local employees are the best compensated in the country. Californians pay ever higher taxes for ever worse services. This is especially true for California teachers.”
      http://www.realnewsreporter.com/?p=231

      1. In addition to being the “best compensated”, public employee benefit programs will eventually bankrupt the State.

        Please go to the CALPers website and read the independent audit report. The pension plan provides for a defined benefit at retirement. The pension plan is $55 Billion dollars under funded to pay out the promised benefit. Its just a matter of time before the other shoe drops. Retirement pay outs will begin to significantly erode principal and the house of cards will collapse

        The bigger question is, why are municipalities and government promising benefits to employees that cannot be funded. Any private employer would have reduced benefits.

        Since the State of CA cannot print money, the State will have to declare bankruptcy to set aside and modify the plan. The day is coming.

  47. At one time I might not have believed this story http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47652654/ns/local_news-los_angeles_ca/#.T84UybBPoj9 but I have no doubt that this recent story could have happened just as it is described.
    ( I have myself been detained many times by fullerton police for doing nothing more than walking to my car from the train station or walking by myself on the sidewalk after 11:00 pm and approached and detained by an officer or riding down the wrong street at night on my bicycle. Being detained by fullerton police I might ad is a very scary thing because of the unusual ways they behave. This might be a good subject to bring up at the city council meeting. I wonder if there are others with experiences of unusual detainment by fullerton police.)

    1. FPD can often be very very respectful, I think they are had and duped by others, even the most intelligent people can be misdirected, and have to tuck tail, turn, and leave. (Ive had a very charmed life) 🙂

  48. fullerton native :At one time I might not have believed this story http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47652654/ns/local_news-los_angeles_ca/#.T84UybBPoj9 but I have no doubt that this recent story could have happened just as it is described.( I have myself been detained many times by fullerton police for doing nothing more than walking to my car from the train station or walking by myself on the sidewalk after 11:00 pm and approached and detained by an officer or riding down the wrong street at night on my bicycle. Being detained by fullerton police I might ad is a very scary thing because of the unusual ways they behave. This might be a good subject to bring up at the city council meeting. I wonder if there are others with experiences of unusual detainment by fullerton police.)

    Sad, but these abuses have been going on for years. When Ramos walks with the help of the DAs office Ramos will be back on the streets of Fullerton and GOD HELP US ALL.

  49. Why didn’t they help him?

    Capt. Rob Stancyk of the Fullerton Fire Department testified that seven or eight Fullerton police officers were standing around a bus depot when paramedics arrived, about 15 feet from Thomas, who he said was lying on the ground.

    “Nothing was being done,” Stancyk said.

    Stancyk testified that initially the officers on the scene were complaining about their injuries, but that then he turned and saw Thomas on the ground, barely breathing.

    1. Exactly! And that alone implicates Hampton, Blatney, and Craig in involuntary manslaughter. Our heroes smashed the man to pieces and then stood around socializing as he chocked on his own blood.

  50. Champion Master :“In California, as in many other states, the public employee unions have totally corrupted California state government. Public employee unions have become the most powerful ‘special interest’ group in Sacramento and use their enormous influence to bribe ( “campaign contributions” ) neo-liberal politicians . As a result, California’s state and local employees are the best compensated in the country. Californians pay ever higher taxes for ever worse services. This is especially true for California teachers.”http://www.realnewsreporter.com/?p=231

    People bitch about it but don’t get involved. legislate for the removal of collective bargaining rights for public employees. They did it in Wisconsin. After today’s failed recall in WISCONSIN and FULLERTON maybe people will wake up or scather. I think scather and hide.

      1. The more you two functional illiterates complain about “liberals” the more attractive liberalism looks. Ever heard the phrase “your own worst enemy” before?

          1. Let me spell it out for you. Conservatives who can’t write, think, fact-check or spell going off on liberals doesn’t hurt liberalism. It hurts other conservatives. Its called guilt by association.

            See, let’s say I was a liberal and read your dumb comments. Do they change my mind? No, they would just reinforce my belief that conservatives are idiots.

            Now let’s say I’m a smart conservative and I notice that even though I agree with you politically, you are a complete buffoon. How does that help conservativism? It doesn’t.

            So, no matter what my political perspective is, you hurt your own cause by “posting while stupid.” So my advice is first basic education and functional literacy, and only then should you comment on a blog whose readers are generally far smarter than you are.

  51. San Diego and San Jose are cutting back pensions, yes! There is sanity in the world after all.

    We shouldn’t have one group of people working 16 hour days until they are 80, so this other group of pensioners don’t have to when they reach 55, that is modern feudalism! Parasites like McPension.

  52. Mr. McKinley, it appears there are few more people than you think who are accusing you of being a poor leader.

    It’s not that “council members don’t lead”, it’s that you didn’t.

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