A Close Look at Total Compensation

Thanks to the City of Bell scandal, local governments are now required to report compensation figures to the state every year. The other day a reader shared that report with us.

This is the first time that we’ve been able to see pension contributions, insurance premiums, overtime, etc. added together for each of the city’s employees, showing us the full value (and cost to the taxpayer) of a job with the city of Fullerton.

The numbers speak for themselves:

[iframe_loader width=’100%’ height=’600′ frameborder=’1′ scrolling=’auto’ src=’https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AiyL667gfsw9dHlZalV5WTQ2R3dqRnFMMEJucEI4LWc&output=html’]

 

Keep in mind that the city’s pension and retiree medical plans are severely underfunded even with these sizable contributions. That means these cost figures are actually understated.

I Aint a Swallerin That Setting The Bar Low Watch Your Wallet

293 thoughts on “A Close Look at Total Compensation

  1. 1.) Stockton
    2.) Mammoth
    3.) San Bernardino
    4.) Fullerton ?

    we are screwed.

    btw, Customer Service Rep? do we really need that? they treat people like garbage inside city hall.

    1. There it is- in black and white. This chart lays it all out. Fullerton’s fate is sealed- these obligations can never be met. Greed during good times- not a thought given about the future. $100k to $200k a year pensions to sit home and do nothing.

  2. Let the employees start paying their own health and retirement. Stop ripping off the taxpayers and being nice to the bureaucrats needs to stop.

    1. Cops do not contribute to the Social Security System. When they retire they do not qualify for Social Security, So their pension is what they get when they retire.

    2. Travis

      Thanks for the info this is an outrage. Who are the tools that are negotiating these contracts and wages for theses public employees? Whoever is cutting the checks must be fired. Is that the city manager? These clowns act like this is monopoly money. I say put every dime online…money in money out. Let the public decide what the wages should be, what tax money should be spent on. I am so glad the 3 blind mice are gone.

  3. And I thought private sector was where all the money was. What’s so alarming about these numbers is that the staggering amt of the top administrators never tripped prior red flags. Service from these public servants is admirable – but they are being generously rewarded. What a great gig these people got – all at a huge toll to city/state budgets. I see Fullerton filing BK – only way – unless severe concessions/cutbacks can be made to remove the exposure of bankruptcy in the future. For now, it appears as if we’re just kicking the can down the road, but eventually the road ends and someones gotta pay the piper. If it’s not us it will be our children. What a colossal mess we’re in for.

        1. admin, please ban John Doe from this blog, he’s as bad as that A-hole Realty Is jerk. He’s hogging the comment section just to piss people off.

            1. But where else would he poop if not here?

              POOP. Wipe, post, repeat. The hourly routine of John Doe, PM. (Poop master)

    1. Fullerton Officer:

      How admirable:
      “FULLERTON, Calif. (KABC) — As a homeless liaison officer, Cpl. John DeCaprio works with Fullerton’s homeless population on a daily basis. He checks up on them in the morning and knows each person by name.”

      Definition of liaison: 
      “communication for establishing and maintaining mutual understanding and cooperation”

      DeCaprio’s Performance: F 
      His fellow officers beat a homeless man to death. That’s a fine example of maintaining understanding and cooperation. 

      1. I think this statement says a lot about his intentions.

        “The majority of the time I’m successful in gaining voluntary compliance in dealing with them,” he said.

        …If he’s in this for “compliance” and “cooperation” then he really isn’t into it for the right reasons. Hes been on the force long enough to know there is a lot more to policing than just compliance.

        I hate to know what he’ll do if they aren’t compliant. A normal person with good intentions would use words such as “trust”.

        This is a good example of a good honest cop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9yIBOnbJjY

        Notice that this officer is not wearing a bunch of crap on his body. The same can’t be said about DeCaprio who loves wear all sorts of garb meant to intimidate people then strut around in 90 degree weather.

        1. Thanks Answer- interesting clip of LAPD. He seems like he’s respectful, but who knows when the camera isn’t rolling.
          Yes, Di Caprio looks like he’s heading for a riot as he approaches the homeless. Not a very good impression – it speaks lodes about his perception of homeless individuals.

          1. FPOA – you are a jealous wiener, Decaprio is one of the best Fullerton officers, he’s helpful to all: rich, poor old, young.

              1. Ha! Wow! They’re turning on each other.

                Its like watching Kenton Hampton get into a fight with Manny Ramos over who is more abusive.

    2. Decaprio would say that. He is a self centered asshole. Fuck the 6 cops huh? He rather work with the homeless than work nights. Do not believe everything you see or hear.

  4. Curious as to how much of the $27M in illegal water taxes were siphoned off to pay for any of this. If that’s the case, there is legal precedent to be able to clawback those proceeds.

  5. I would clean house and fire them all. If we are paying top dollar X 2 then you would think we would at least have a police department than can do better than raping and killing people in their own community. I would fire every cop in Fullerton and start over. They are all in it together and cover each other. The only way to get rid of a rat infestation is eliminate the colony.

  6. Out of curiousity, there are several positions that are titled the same with similiar or different salaries-what is the difference in these different salaried but same titled positions?
    Really? an Equipment Superintendent makes more than a Firefighter?

    1. When I was a classified employe in the school district up here, the pay scale was based on six steps. New hires are paid at Step 1(lowest), then up to Step 2 after 6 months, then Step 3 at 2 years, Step 4 at 5 years etc. It’s a seniority thing.

    2. Different people, at different levels of pay (based on length in the position usually), in the same job classification.

      Example: Lisa (5 years), Joe (10 years) and Tina (2 years) are all in the same job classification; Joe is paid the most, Lisa next and Tina lowest of the three in that classification

      1. Oh, gottcha, thanks, that’s quite a payraise. I get 1 or 2 percent of my salary a year in payraising, dependant on my performance eval.

  7. RAMOS, MANUEL ANTHONY/ CICINELLI, JAY PATRICK

    Two police officers from the Fullerton Police Department (FPD) are facing charges for their criminal participation in the beating-death of a homeless man, 37-year-old Kelly Thomas. The decision regarding the filing of criminal charges was made by District Attorney Rackauckas following an extensive investigation and thorough legal review by the OCDA. The District Attorney On July 5, 2011, at 8:23 p.m., FPD Dispatch received a call reporting a “homeless” man looking in car windows and pulling on handles of parked cars in the FTC parking lot. Ramos contacted FPD Dispatch to report that he was in the area and would take the lead for the call. Thomas was detained by the officers but not placed under arrest. Ramos spoke with Thomas, instructed him to sit on the curb, and requested to search a backpack in Thomas’ possession. It was determined some of the contents, specifically, items of mail, belonged to someone other than Thomas. After several minutes of increasingly-aggressive instructions, Ramos is accused of escalating the contact to a physical altercation. It was 16 minutes from the initial time of contact to the beginning of the physical altercation and engagement in unlawful police conduct. The physical altercation lasted nine minutes and 40 seconds until the victim was in handcuffs and no longer moving. Thomas was severely bleeding, but the officers did not reduce their level of force. Throughout the struggle, Thomas’ actions were defensive in nature and motivated by pain and fear. Thomas was transported to the hospital never regained consciousness. FPD investigated the case on the night of the incident. The OCDA took over the investigation July 7, 2011. He died at the hospital on July 10, 2011. The OCSD coroner’s death certificate lists the manner of death as homicide and the cause of death to be blunt cranial-facial injuries sustained during physical altercation with law enforcement.” The toxicology report shows that Thomas had no illicit drugs or alcohol in his system at the time of the incident. The overall force applied against Thomas was excessive in its totality based on the fact that Thomas was unarmed and posed a low-level threat, the number of injuries sustained by the victim, location of injuries to the victim’s face and head, number of officers involved, and overall number of punches, knees, Tasers, and Taser hits to Thomas. Due to a lack of evidence, as described below, criminal charges were not filed against the remaining four officers involved in the incident including Officer Joseph Wolfe, Officer Kenton Hampton, Sergeant Kevin Craig, and Corporal James Blatney.

    07/13, C5, 8:30 AM

    http://orangecountyda.com/docs/164555672012casemanagementlist.pdf

        1. The Feds will sic the dogs on them. Watch. Feebies love to make cases on the locals, especially small department manned with yahoos. Look what they’ve done to the LA County Sheriffs. Exposed their criminality to the world. And LASO has much more political clout than FPD. FPD will be used as an example to all the rest. A whipping post, if you will.

  8. I’d be interested in knowing how Fire Division/Battalion Chiefs, and Police Captains, can receive overtime; in many other cities, those are management positions and exempt from overtime pay…

    1. One way they do it is very simple, they have a high ranking Username\password for the managing software and “edit” their own info. google telestaph

    1. Perhaps posting that total list of compensation in the OC Register? Heck, people still believe the communist thug obama is helping our country lol

    2. Where are my comments about Chris????……What happen to transparency???? Isnt that your favorite word Chris???

      1. I tripped over my shoe strings. Chris??? if your so trans-parent how about making untrippable shoes so my knees don’t make the owie???

  9. domino theory, when one city is financially knocked down by salaries, pensions awarded during the great housing bubble based on inflated revenue expectations, then other cities not afraid to all down and declare bankruptcy. These financial obligations can never be met, not in our protracted, depressed economy.
    the difference between the Great Depression of the 1930’s and our Great recession, is the Great Recession experiences protracted unemployment(google U 6 unemployment stats).
    As for government sponsored enterprises alleviating unemployment, dirigisme(?) does not work evidenced by another bout of quantitative easing. How much paper money can a government print before it gives up and lets the economy collapse?

    1. As long as the US dollar maintains its status as a world reserve currency the Federal presses can run wildly unabated with little or no consequences. The US economy is slated for a recievership status by virtue of our 100 year old debt based currency issuance. Eventually the plug will be pulled. The system was designed to fail. These salaries are the golden handcuff hush money that will grease the skids and palms aiding the descent into tyranny. The pensions will become collateral to the banker debt just like in Europe. They will never see them.

              1. Ask DQ as I did not make that claim. The oil trades are what I pay attention to. China and Russia and Iran have been doing some in gold denominations.

                1. Yeah, because they’re banned from international banking transactions, not because of loss of faith in the dollar . . . I’d call that more of a harbinger of Iran’s stupidity . . . not the end of the financial world as we know it.

                  They’ve also done trades with India using freakin’ rupees. It’s not exactly something to watch.

                2. I know you didn’t make the claim TS, I’m sorry if it wasn’t clear, the question is meant for DQ.

        1. Do you understand that every dollar the federal reserve prints is a loan with interest? How do you ever pay off debt with borrowed money? As a nation you cannot. Eventually the nation,its infrastructure, its resources and its people will be sold off. The Federal Reserve act is up for renewal this year. The private central bank monopoly is what got Kennedy and Bush and Lincoln the bullet. The danger of the gold standard inspired the allegory of the wizard of oz. If the act gets renewed then say hello Greece and Argentina and get ready to re-register yourself with the department of commerce as chattel property because that is what we are about to become.

  10. $166,134.26 Library Director
    $167,563.11 Fire Captain
    $185,521.03 Director of human resources

    Whats wrong with these numbers?
    You can blame a part of this on the former City Managers and on the League of Cities
    Chris: We staggered the population over 15 years ago with the first Fullerton Recall..maybe this time it will stick?

  11. Can you get what the budget is for overtime last year and this year for police and fire? Fire has to be a few million.

    Budget balanced fine this year right?

  12. First World salaries for a Third World Police Dept. Is it any wonder the USA is collapsing like a cheap cardboard box under a torrential summer rainstorm?

  13. Why are cops and dispatchers making more than fire fighters? Firemen/women have one of the most difficult, dangerous jobs there is. On another note, I guess all our greatest minds should stop going to college for 11 years to get PhD’s, when they can make more by just joining the academy.

    1. Municipal police officers generate revenue for the municipality as well as local and state agencies. In addition, they are the bridge to federal monies with mile of strings. They are also the ones that will be first in line to be marched off against the American people in an attempt to disarm us in the future. They must continuously be commensurately profiled and compensated. The good ones are getting out. Firefighters SERVE the public and thus the disparity. Police work is nowhere nearly as dangerous as they would have us believe. It is far more dangerous being an average citizen than an armed to hilt cyborg. The two factions are always at odds over who gets the most loot.

  14. Would city workers continue to work at half the pay they are now getting at the same quality level?Are there qualified people willing to take those jobs at half the salary? What would be a realistic percentage across the board cut that could be acceptable. Why not begin to develope a plan of implimenting a new pay adjustment regardless of how unrealistic it would be.At least we would get the dinosore out in the open. Is it possible to hire a workforce without having to enter into a finacial contract?

    1. Scranton, PA has reduced all city employee’s pay to minimum wage – $7.25/hr. in violation of a court order. The mayor simply said the money to pay the salaries simply does not exist – regardless of that the judge decided. This will start happening everywhere. The service at the city government level couldn’t get much worse as it is. You could mann the desks with rhesus monkeys and pretty much get the same service. Maybe they’ll let the illegals come in and underbid the city workers – just like they’ve allowed to happen in the private sector. The only real solution to the financial problems on a local, state and national level is a full-blown collapse since the elected politicians refuse to directly address the problems. They only exaccerbate the problems. The USA has turned into a 3rd world banana republic where the laws only apply to the little people and where the chosen oligarchs can steal from the little people at will without consequences. It is the last stage of death in the lifecycle of an empire from a historical context. You are witnessing the flash in the pan being extinguished. At our pinnacle we were the very best.

    2. You would agree to have that done to city workers that have families and bills to pay. YOU are a piece of shit. Recall those assholes.

      1. Screw ’em. They’ve been given a gift for years. Now the gift should be taken away because we can no longer afford it and it hurts the interests of the greater good. Everybody has bills to pay. The gov workers aren’t alone in that respect. Just lower their salaries and benefits so they are in line with everyone who has to pay bills. Fire half the gov workforce or cut their compensations by 50%. There’s your choice. Now decide what you want.

          1. John Doe :
            will never happen!!

            But it just did!

            Man you think the “rules” will protect you. What you fail to realize is that the employer make the rules, not the employees.

            Go ahead, try and play hard ball with the new council and watch your job evaporate.

            Check Mate!

          2. It sure as hell will. When the money runs out, honey. It’s damn hard to pay people with money that doesn’t exist. Ask San Bernadino where the books have been cooked for a decade. Now they’re down to a measly $125,000 in cash and have hit the wall! 😀

            You people are in full denial mode. You won’t wake up until one morning you wake up and your direct deposits have been cancelled. They’ll tell you they never saw it coming and all of you will cry like babies. The entertainment will be better than anything Hollyweird has created. I can’t wait.

  15. These politically appointed circus clowns who shamed Fullerton in the eyes of the entire world make more than surgical oncologists! 😀

    Flim-flam con artists must blush when they read these articles.

    Fullerton is in the same bankruptcy line that San Bernadino was in.

    Just a matter of time. Then the pensions go bye-bye.

  16. Hhmm. It appears councilmembers get $3290 a year in meeting pay, and the city pays for health insurance (not like many of us get fully covered for a part-time gig).

    Travis, you’ve had a week to get “filled in” on the council pay and bennies, have you decided if you are going to let the taxpayers pick up your health care tab instead of getting it through your job?

      1. Still no answer from Travis about whether he’ll sign up for city health insurance?

        Travis says over and over he’s for transparency, but it’s like the scene in The Princess Bride where Vizzini keeps saying, “Inconceivable!” and Andre the Giant finally says “I do not think that word means what you think it means.”

        1. Anonymous, maybe there is a support group you can go to, so you can pick up the pieces and go on with your life.

  17. “California is a Liberal Wasteland!”

    Too many Companies and individuals who can pay most of the State Taxes, have and are FLEEING in large numbers.

    “Most of the Businesses left the City of Fullerton because of the City Counsel” -quoting an upset resident

  18. Law Dof :I would clean house and fire them all. If we are paying top dollar X 2 then you would think we would at least have a police department than can do better than raping and killing people in their own community. I would fire every cop in Fullerton and start over. They are all in it together and cover each other. The only way to get rid of a rat infestation is eliminate the colony.

    We need police we don’t need police making 4K a week…game over I say TOP/ MAX pay for any public employee 60K year 1250wk 30.00 hour no bennies

    1. why dont you complainers go pull salary surveys for other police departments. Fullerton is not even on top. No cop makes 4 thousand a week. You are insane!

      1. With all the benefits rolled in, the Captains, the Chiefs, the acting chiefs and even some sergeants with mucho OT were getting close to 4k a week, certainly 3.5k a week. For a job requiring a GED or high school education, thats pretty sweet!

      2. Hate to break it to you JD, however the figures from the compensation chart above show that a police sergeant on the Fullerton Police Department was paid over $225,000.00 last year.

        This amount of money out of taxpayers pockets translates to well over $4,000.00 per week amigo.

        POLICE SERGEANT 108,810.37 28,716.70 22,268.43 47,575.45 20,190.01 $227,560.96

        1. What is truly insane, is that a management position within the Fire Department, such as a Battalion Chiefs or a Captains made between $30,000.00 and $40,000.00 per year in overtime.

          A) Who authorizes overtime for management?

          B) When did anyone who was salaried or in management ever get overtime?

  19. Why are all you FFFF people jealous about my pay? You could of applied for my job or did you? But didn’t get hired, so now your crying about it…..little bitches.

    1. Hires are usually and probably nepotism or cronyism, in line with the “Back Room Deals” and “Local Government Giveaways” the “Eminent Domain Shit” is pure greed and HEARTLESSNESS beyond “Humanity”

  20. When all you little bitches were making more money in the private sector than I was, I did cry like you little bitches are.

    1. JD…it doesn’t matter what name you post under. You are so uneducated and illiterate, we all know it is you. I’m quite sure you are not employed period. Not in the private sector, nor in the public. I can’t imagine who would hire your stupid ass. Again…either a spouse of an LEO or more likely what an earlier poster indicated – a wannabe cop who couldn’t get hired on ANYWHERE.

      1. Toilet tester? Porta-potty cleaner? Rota-rooter Guinea pig? Fertilizer plant? Bio-fuel testing participant?

        The list goes on and on. JD is qualified for lots of shitty jobs.

              1. Did you see my name on the list above? Pooper scooper is a government job.

                Poop, there it is. Poop, there it is. Poop, there it is.

                JD must have been here.

  21. Sounds fair to me. Everyone has mouths to feed. They can go back to college or start their own business if they want to make more, just like everyone else.

  22. Good point truthseeker. But IRS employees pull in way more money for the government than the average officer, and they are not making six digits. Maybe because it’s federal rather than localized makes a difference.

  23. This is utterly sickening on many counts – first of course the obvious -WTF! the pay levels are out of this world! Second, I can’t believe there that many goverment jobs and that’s in only one city!! These people are like friggen parasite maggots, eating away at everything in their path. Sad and scary scary what’s becoming of the mammoth piece of shit public sector.

    1. What worries me is how some can so easily and willingly destroy for individual gain, just look at the European Union. Unemployment amongst some youths are at the 50% level, in Europe and America. In the US they dont even count the ones that have given up looking for work, after a year 2, or 3, who can blame them. actual unemployment is almost 15% in the US.

      The whole Police Brutality issue in America can be connected to the Labor Union power grab, Thugs lower the Legitimacy of Labor Unions.

      Public Education in America, is a cesspool of Unionization. Half or more of the monies goes to administrative costs.

      Government waste fraud and abuse account for an estimated 34% of the money spent, WOW. Amtrak has to be sudsidized about 100% sometimes.

      Big Government = “Big Corruption” “Big lies” “Big ABUSE” “Big Waste” “Big POWER GRABS”

      Sincerely , from the “last Bastion or Island of Conservatism in Southern California” (Orange County)

  24. That is your opinion of me, I really dont care. We are all here for a reason and if being smart is actually being stupid that is you not me. I might be an academy washout, the friendly clerk at you local super market, or whoever you think I am, dont worry about it. I dont ask you who you are. I really dont give a rats ass who you are. So bring it on. I can dish it out like the best out there.

    1. Right to all of you. The OC Register article is another one of those written by their chief bureaucratic butt kisser – Yup Lou Ponzi, oops I mean Ponsi. His former bosses told him to never crap on the municipal or county bureaucracies. So he never does. But now he has a new boss from BOSTON. The new boss is not libertarian like old Freedom Newspapers, they are much more liberal. Ooops Look out Lou, you may be writing for the City of Fullerton next if only you can get the three blind stumps back in office! But while the city manager is still here, you might have a chance at a city job!

  25. I’m convinced, Travis: you need to hire more people so you don’t have to pay the employees you have so much overtime.

    By the way — are you aware of the criticisms of the so-called “Total Compensation” approach? If so, what are they? If not, do you want to hear the other side of the story — or not?

    1. Clear indicator is the yearly budget for overtime. Police and Fire should be no more than $500k a year. If its more then Fullerton hasn’t been cutting enough. I’m sure Fire is $2.5 mill plus. They get away with scams. Yes Greg. Have them hire more to lower the OT. That will work LOL

  26. Dear John Doe,

    I welcome your opinion, as I do others. I think it is important for all to be heard in this forum.

    RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED

    1. 9c1copcar – are you sure about that? He has said some pretty horrific things. It is one thing to have a difference of opinions, but hate speech is something else altogether. Some trolls here are only interested in stirring the pot… Not only that, they post under several different names, but the writing style is a dead giveaway. Your posts are always thoughtful…not everyone has a heart like yours.

      1. It comes from both sides. Both sides use different names and make idle threats. You sissies just don’t like it when it comes from the cop side. You are all biased blind liars.

    2. Absolutely. Everyone has an opinion no matter how terrible. We are all here for a reason. And we all have different points of view.

      1. John Doe stated, “Everyone has an opinion no matter how terrible. We are all here for a reason. And we all have different points of view.”

        John Doe, Apparently, your reason for being here is to express your TERRIBLE opinion. (At least you admit it.)

    1. Great…cutting edge analysis from JD. Sooo glad you’ve made your opionon known JD. Thanks. Oh…what a sense of humor. Tee hee…stir the pot, whew…I gotta catch my breath on that one.

  27. Dear Name Withheld,

    I served in the military. Like tens of thousands before me, I did my small part, so that all could retain their right to free speech, no matter what. Without that right, and with sensorship, we are nothing more than a 3rd world country.

    RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED

    1. 9c1copcar is one of the most genuine and honest ex-LEOs that I’ve ever met. Even though he and I share opposite political views I respect his opinion and integrity. Thanks David.

  28. Note to Fullerton employees: It looks like Councilman Kiger is going to negotiate your future labor contracts on this blog and hold you up to public ridicule to satisfy the demented fantasies of the half dozen bloggers on this site. It must suck having to work for a douchebag that has absolutely no respect for the work you do and publicly condemns your salaries and benefits while helping himself to the same benefits!

    1. The pension contributions for most public safety employees are 4x the amount of the money paid to each council member.

      Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

      1. Oh my God, J.D., HOW can you say ”you`ll believe it when you see it”. You DO NOT believe ANYTHING,… when you see it!!! You just have your ” sick in the head response, as with everything. YOU ”SAW” the murdering video, and you still spin things your sick way!!!!! Kelly DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO RECEIVE THE HELL THOSE ASSHOLES PUT HIM THROUGH, AND KILLED HIM!!! iF THEIR INTENTION WAS TO ARREST HIM, WHY DID THEY NOT JUST CUFF HIM & DO SO???? BEACAUSE, that WAS NOT their intention!!!! The video 100% speaks for itself, so don`t say… ”I`ll believe it when I see it”!!! You are too ”diseased” to see anything for WHAT IT IS, that`s very obvious!!!! The video could`nt be more explanatory, and clearly obvious, ….to a normal person. I ALMOST feel sorry…. FOR YOU, you are SO SICK!!!!! Also, your comment, ” everyone has an opinion”, yes, true, but you`ve made yours clear so many times, to the point of nauseum!!! We get it ,… your sick view, so …JUST GO AWAY NOW!!!!!

          1. Oh really? Everyone in the country, and around the world, (EXCEPT for the murdering cops who re-wrote their reports a hundred times), MUST have been in a drunken stupor when they watched the video and saw six cops brutally TORTURE and MURDER Kelly Thomas. Wow, wasn’t that convenient?

    2. King wake up this is 2012 and this is the 1st we are hearing about these numbers. This has been going on for decades That is tax money going to a cop making 5K a week The way that these clowns and tools get away with this crap is they do everything in secret…well across the nation that has changed from city to city expose the raid on the tax payers dime

      60K max pay for public employee 1250 wk 30.00 hour no bennies

    3. King prefered a simpler time when all the talk about salaries, pensions and benefits were done behind closed doors while Don Bankhead was asleep.

  29. Wow. You fine folks in Fullerton are really gettin’ taken for a ride by these pension pigs. They are bankrupting you and your children. They are like burglars given authorization by the complicit politicians to break into your homes and steal your belongings while you are rendered defenseless. You must stand there and watch helplessly while they carry out your big screen, jewelry, refrigerator, stove, furniture, etc… Call 911 and the operator laughs at you. Hopefully your newly elected councilmen will stand up to these goons and take your city back. That is, if the unions don’t get to them first.

    1. JustUs. The compensation packages are probably higher in the city that you live in. Check em out. And I’m sure all the pigs are perfect in your city. Yep.

      1. “Check em out. And I’m sure all the pigs are perfect in your city. Yep.”

        No. All the pigs are equal bandits (although some are more equal than others).

        As more cities file for Chapter 9 all this will change though. Not by choice. By the laws of math.

        1. True. Not that simple though. Cities have to prove they can’t afford the packages currently approved. Most cities approve yearly budgets no problem. Some don’t. Fullerton just approved their budget with little stress right?

          1. Oh, you mean the budget that included $2.5 million in illegally-obtained water taxes? How’s that working out?

            1. All of them are nothing more than crooks. Now it’s been reported that criminal indictments could very possibly be coming down on the San Bernardino City Managers who cooked their books for the last decade. And if they got away with it for that long how many others are doing it and haven’t been caught yet?

              This entire State is an economic cinderbox just waiting to explode.

    2. All cop pensions are the same. Look it up for your city. If you think that is the case, you are being screwed also.

      1. Karma, Let`s don`t hold our breath, but with ANY luck, maybe JD,will STAY GONE!!!!! What a heartless, dumb, asshole he ( or ”she ” is!!!! A cop???? THAT FITS!!!!!

        1. Stay gone? ..that was a joke, right? Misery loves company and JD wants everyone to be as miserable as they are, it really is that simple, IMO.

          JD is a dirty cop, or the father of a dirty cop, or the wife of a dirty cop, or sister, or…..you get my drift. It’s really all the same scumbag.

  30. Everyone cries about how much someone else makes. Of course those same people want to earn the maximum they can and receive the best benefit package. Travis, you and the other Tony B. lackeys, need to list on this website how much money you earn in the private sector and how much money you will earn (our tax dollars) as City Council Representatives. Also, include a breakdown of any and all benefit compensation you receive. You can’t very well whine about someone’s livelihood without disclosing your own.

  31. Travis, you and the other Tony B. lackeys, need to list on this website how much money you earn in the private sector and how much money you will earn as City Council Representatives. Also, include a breakdown of any and all benefit compensation you receive. You can’t very well whine about someone’s livelihood without disclosing your own.

    1. Private sector is not run by extorted tax money. Goverment doesnt create wealth. As a matter of fact it creates debt-debts that CAN NEVER BE REPAID by virtue of our currency’s nature. Government is also extremely wasteful. The private sector is the free market, the source of wealth creation and job creation. Government needs to be kept on a short leash and these days in this city on a choke chain with a high voltage hookup. If a public information request doesn’t allow you to see a private citizen’s tax return then get the laws changed.Records of public employees compensation is open to public inspection for a reason. We are still a constitutional republic not a banana republic. Of course Fullerton has been run like one for some time but those days are almost over.

      1. Very true. As long as you admit the whole country is that way and not just Fullerton. Fullerton is consistent and actually lower compensated that most OC cities. It’s a nationwide issue not a city one. The only answer is bankruptcy but the problem is that’s not as easy as it seems. Next few years will dictate if that’s the play all cities try.

        1. The entire country is in shambles. Everyone needs to clean up their own backyard and as a Fullerton resident and taxpayer I am not going to sleep anytime soon. I agree that the Fullerton scale is a bit below the bar but doesn’t justify some of it by any means. I am glad that at least the issue is on the dinner table of many residents right now and they will be voting with their wallets again in November. We as Americans can no longer afford business as usual. We are in uncharted territory.

          1. Yep. Crazy times. I just wish people were more concerned when all of the leaders approved everything years ago when money was being burned as kindling for fires. Now so many people that got 1-5% raises each year and planned their futures and retirements based on their contracts being offered and approved will now go into foreclosure and bankruptcy. Sad but I guess part of the cycle. The whole nation will be worth nothing. Cash is golden.

    2. I see. Private citizens are not allowed to talk about public employee compensation unless they expose their own private financial affairs?

      That’s not how it works. They should have explained that to you when you first went on the public dole.

  32. “You can’t very well whine about someone’s livelihood without disclosing your own.”

    you are comparing apples to oranges……our tax dollars don’t pay for private sector jobs. That is none of my or your business.

    I will agree about disclosure on Travis’ earnings as a city rep.

    And why is it that anyone who posts here in support of change in Fullerton is a Tony/Travis/Chris lackey? Better pull down your skirt, your ignorance is showing.

  33. To add insult to injury these pension pigs have virtual bullet-proof job security. To get fired you have to beat a man to death on camera, use your city credit card to buy phony scripts or steal a laptop on camera off the conveyor belt at an airport checkpoint. But even after the fact you get at least 9 months paid vacation before they pull the trigger. In the private sector you would get the heave-ho the day after the act.

    So big bucks with bullet proof job security.

    What a friggin’ deal, eh?

    1. I hate to see the types of people the next generation of law enforcement will attract.

      Right now the current generation is just winging it and playing it by ear but the next gen will have learned from their predecessor’s “mistakes” and really sink it’s claws into the citizenry.

      The ironic thing is a lot of the officers who created and encouraged this atmosphere of thuggery and abuse will become victims of it within the next 10-15 years.

      1. “I hate to see the types of people the next generation of law enforcement will attract”

        Couldn’t be any worse than we have today unless they start hiring 8th graders.

        1. Oh it will be worse without a doubt because the next gen is going to be fully cognizant of how to game, manipulate and decimate the system.

          Just like this current generation learned and adjusted their tactics after the Rodney King beating.

          The next Kelly Thomas isn’t going to be beaten to death, they’re just going to quickly pile on top of him to obscure any cameras, shoot him them claim that he was grabbing for their weapon.

          Its human nature to learn from the past and adjust and unfortunately more people with anger, sexual and other psychological issues are going to be attracted to police work since they know they can get away with it.

          1. There’s a huge distinction between America and most 3rd world banana republics and most 1st world nations. We have a 2nd amendment and firearm sales have been moving off the charts in the last few years.

            1. Absolutely. They have been working on an end run around it for years with international treaties which may end up landing it in foreign court. Lets hope they don’t get the 2/3 vote in the Senate or the sitting President to sign off on it.

              1. truthseeker, won’t matter.

                If ordered by the international courts would you freely turn over your hardware to the authorities?

                Well, would you?

          2. “The next Kelly Thomas isn’t going to be beaten to death, they’re just going to quickly pile on top of him to obscure any cameras, shoot him them claim that he was grabbing for their weapon.”

            They already routinely do that, or similar things, to many citizens, resulting in death. Example: -Tazing, kicking and beating to death Khoa Ahn Le in El Monte (the family were witness; however there was no video). In the Kelly Thomas case, we just got lucky, for once, that there was a pole video, bus video and witnesses who recorded what happened.

  34. NO MORE UPDATES ON KT STORY?
    I HAVE TO GET MY INFO FROM THE TIMES!!!
    starting to wonder why as soon as you got the recall going, YALL JUST DROPED ALL INFO ON KT!!!.
    kinda sucks, first pussynelli step father, second ramos fired, third todays court hearing and not a damn peep from FFFF!!!
    WTF

    1. Trial date to be set on July 27th. Everything you mentioned HAS been covered. I guess you don’t know how to read.

    1. officers should be given a fair amount of latitude in prosecution due to the tremendous stress and risk they take on every time they show up for work. To prosecute an officer for murder because a situation got out of hand should be a remedy used in only the most egregious circumstances and I don’t believe this situation warrants that.

      Tim Byrne – Placentia, CA

      This should tell you everything you need to know about Mr. Byrne.

      1. Yes he needs to be the first one in the door of the fema camp-he can be the official boot and toilet seat licker. Register editors, OC DA, and Tim appear to be all cut from the same cloth. Murdering an unarmed homeless man in plain view of the public by well armed and ostensibly well trained “peace officers” is as un-american,immoral and demonic as you can get. Aside from this apparent stockholm syndrome victim and LE sympathizer the majority of the public doesn’t buy the spin game.

        1. Make no bones about it-in my opinion there is a lot of theater going on here. Overcharging one and undercharging or not charging others reeks to high heaven.

        1. I guess video and audio of the 6 officers admitting that they murdered him with signed sworn statements accompanying.

    2. The cops tried calling Ron for help with Kelly in the past. Ron’s response was “He knows better to call me”……..click

  35. Better pray to God that fireworks referendum passes in November. The City needs to revenue. When that many employees are on the City nut for in excess of $100,000 a year…it is no wonder one city or municipality in California is throwing in the towel and going bankrupt. Tell your kids: don’t be doctors or lawyers or engineers. Work for government.

    1. They better know how to skin a buck, run a trot line and grow vegetables the way things are looking. Or else they can live in a concrete highrise staring into blue flicker screens all all day on food stamps drinking laced water and eating GMO food.

  36. I wonder if these guys/gals actually think badmouthing Kelly and Ron Thomas does any good for the charged criminals who are the ones on trial. Dig up all the dirt on Ron Thomas you want boys and girls. Character assassination will not lessen the murderers culpability. You people would be better suited to help get Ramos and Cicinelli the psychological help they need so they don’t beat anyone else to death once they get out of prison.

  37. ever wonder what these gov’t workers do to earn that much in overstime pay???? Is there that many fires. cat’s the the trees, late night stings, paperwork (wait, that would I can see)??????

    It more likely incurred through driving around, out at dinner, fudging their time cards, sleeping in, dropping-off paperwork, more driving around, charity evernts, (our heroes! the gov’t worker!!) Ya!!!

    1. I agree. The only time that overtime should be authorized for the fire department is if they are fighting a fire and their shift ends before the fire does.

      1. Next time im performing CPR on your loved one and its time to punch out, I’ll stop and say “No overtime, you take over”.

      2. Not all OT is paid by the city. There are outside overtime gigs in which the private sector pays the bill, and the city makes money on those. There is also court costs, sending cops to court on their off day isn’t free.
        The next time you want to think about cutting OT pay try hiring more cops. There are less cops today on YOUR streets than there was 10 yrs ago. The population has increased, crime has increased yet there are less cops to handle calls for service. The calls don’t go away because there are less cops to handle the calls and sometimes, cops are held over to handle calls. You don’t work for free, why should they?
        Just wondering but how many cops do you think your city needs on the street at one time?
        It has been asked and ignored many times over, but how does FPD stack up to other OC agencies in terms of salary and benefits? How much of a DECREASE in pay has FPD and FFD taken over the last few years?

  38. I am shocked at the salaries for parks and recreation employees. And why so many? What is a parks and recreation administrator. My suspicion is Fullerton city manager joe Felz flopped outmofmparks and recreation and now he rewards his faithful friends, the losers who could never earn thesensalariesmin the private sector. Oh well, sucks to be a city of Fullerton employee as our town ,use declare bankruptcy to break their financial obligations to these pointless persons

  39. “officers should be given a fair amount of latitude in prosecution due to the tremendous stress and risk they take on every time they show up for work.”
    If they can not handle the stress they should not be in profession. Perhaps if we required officers to obtain a 4 year degree we could make sure they were trained properly to deal with stressful situations, mentally ill people, etc. At the very least we could weed out the Cicinelli’s (mentally unfit) and Ramos’ (sadistic). Tons of people would be happy to make 50K a year after getting a BA/BS.

    “To prosecute an officer for murder because a situation got out of hand should be a remedy used in only the most egregious circumstances”

    Murder, unless one’s life is at danger is always egregious. I guess this blogger thinks a cop has to stone someone to death after lighting them on fire and chopping off their arms in order to be egregious.

  40. KABC Channel 7 LA News

    “Watching what happened and seeing what took place on tape, and it really takes you to the event as it occurred … I don’t see how you can watch it without having a very strong human, emotional reaction,” Rackauckas said.

    Ron Thomas said he still wants the other four officers involved to face charges.

    “We’ve talked about it even this morning,” he said. “It is absolutely ongoing, and (Rackauckas) emphasized even today it is not a done deal, it’s not over with.”

    Video with Ron, Jay, and Ramos. (2:15 mins. 15 sec. ad first)
    http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/orange_county&id=8735339

  41. FFFF- as others are noting here- for some mysterious reason Kelly Thomas related stories are disappearing from this blog.

  42. I hope the new City Council comes out soon with a “state of the city” financial report and a plan to move forward so we can remain solvent, hopefully without bankruptcy.

  43. The FPOA contract says:

    (A) FLSA-exempt Employees
    Although the classification of Police Sergeant is represented by the Police unit, for purposes of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), it is designated as exempt.

    This FLSA exemption shall not preclude Police Sergeants from earning overtime pursuant to this Agreement.

    So the sergeants aren’t required to be paid overtime, but Fullerton pays it anyway. Who the hell negotiated that perk?

    Last year’s overtime for sergeants totalled $170,430.

  44. William Wallace :
    FFFF- as others are noting here- for some mysterious reason Kelly Thomas related stories are disappearing from this blog.

    4 of the last 5 FFFF Blog posts are related to Police and FPD management issues. The other is about Orange County actions against its own criminal activities. The Blog and Comments of late are replete with Kelly issues.

    THE LATEST BLOG POSTS
    A Close Look at Total Compensation
    Tonight: Citizen Committee Seeks Civilian Oversight of Fullerton Police Department
    County Public Works Director Fired
    Former City Manager Chris Meyer Shares Wisdom; Recipients Underwhelmed
    NEW: L.A. Sheriffs set the standard for dealing with the homeless

  45. JustUs :To add insult to injury these pension pigs have virtual bullet-proof job security. To get fired you have to beat a man to death on camera, use your city credit card to buy phony scripts or steal a laptop on camera off the conveyor belt at an airport checkpoint. But even after the fact you get at least 9 months paid vacation before they pull the trigger. In the private sector you would get the heave-ho the day after the act.
    So big bucks with bullet proof job security.
    What a friggin’ deal, eh?

    LOL OMG that is good stuff who the hell are these TOOLS that gave them these jobs whoever is cutting theses deals and these checks and approving these contracts should fired, arrested, put on trial, and be sent to prison. Why the [email protected] do all these clowns have contracts anyway? What a scam

  46. Dear Dough For Brains,

    That was great insight. Law Enforcement, around the country, has been hiring more aggressive officers for the last 10-12 years now, and will soon take over all the positions of those ready to retire, in the not-so-distant future. To me, that is a scary reality.
    If you look at the violence that has gone on in classrooms within the last 15-20 years or so, it parallels the aggressiveness that goes on in the Departments across this country.
    For many years now, I used to think that military personnel made the best officers; I do not think that anymore. I have witnessed many former military use excessive force time and time again, so I do advocate acceptance to academies, should be on a case by case basis.
    While all applicants are screened, the influx of troublesome officers seem to get through the process when there is a hiring glut. Background investigators are ordered to have so many bodies ready before the start of the next academy, which in many instances, is not nearly enough time to thoroughly investigate the applicant.
    You will also find that these rogue officers have not had much discipline in their lives while growing up. The proverbial LINE-IN-THE-SAND, that all of us have had to adhere to, seems to be lacking to a great degree in their lives. It is why they act the way they do. Suddenly, they are given a badge and gun, and with the protection of the brass, they push boundaries that the average citizen would go to jail for.
    I LOVE law enforcement, as it is necessary in a society. My pet peeve is with those individuals, and management, who bastardize the very entity they are sworn to uphold…THE LAW!!

    RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED

    1. Yes, there is only Sellers, Hamilton (at least as he was the overseer of the non uniform Det. Div. and smart enough to pull the rip cord early and retire as acting Chief of FPD), Dan, and the all too documented McSatan, to keep them “IN LINE”.

      Thats why we still HAVE! “Anarchy of SADISM!”

    2. Hey 9C1, what is very much disturbing is that there isn’t a psychiatric evaluation set-up for ex-military applicants. I’m not talking a psych test, but an evaluation. PTSD has shown to be apparent in those who come back from serving in the military. I think it would be important to require a 3 year grace period from the time soldiers come back to when they can apply to police departments. Just to make sure their mind is right. Another issue is that a lot of the higher-ups are ex-military, so they like to hire their own. I agree that 4 degree is required. Being a police officer holds many responsibilities along with liabilities. There needs to be more of a diplomatic approach to the profession of “peace officer.” We live in a diplomatic, democratic society…I don’t get where this totalitarianism police mentality comes into play. We need to be progressive in law enforcement.

      1. Your concept is good. Problem is that police departments can’t get qualified applicants as it is now. 75% of applicants are DQ’d. Most can’t pass the background. That’s why military come out so clean and get hired because they have been away at war for so many years and are clean. 4 year degree would be nice too but most 4 year degree people would never want to be a cop. It’s not a pleasant job most of the time. So there you have it. Make it four year degrees and no prior military or a grace period and your applicant pool will be minimal. That’s as of now. Imagine if Fullerton decided in 2015 to impose half pay? Zero applicants.

    3. They have to hire more aggressive officers. The world has become more aggressive. Their is a lot of jerks out their that will shoot if you look at them wrong. It isn’t Ozzie and Harriet anymore. It’s the Terminator.

      1. John Dope stated, “They have to hire more aggressive officers. The world has become more aggressive. Their is a lot of jerks out their that will shoot if you look at them wrong. It isn’t Ozzie and Harriet anymore. It’s the Terminator.” [sic]

        John Dope wrote, “Their is a lot of jerks out their that will shoot if you look at them wrong.” [sic]

        Are you for real? Is this the BEST that you can do? If you are a representation of the lack of intelligence within the FPD, then the FPD is in VERY BAD shape indeed!! Of course, we already knew that was the case.

        The cops will shoot you even if you are sitting on your porch, holding a garden nozzle, and you don’t even know the cops are there hiding in the bushes- www.http://educateyourself.org/cn/dougzerbymurder16dec10.shtml

        Or, they’ll shoot you if you crash through a school yard gate with your truck and your girls are in the back seat. www.http://sanclementetimes.com/view/full_story/17557425/article-UPDATED–Camp-Pendleton-Base-Officials-Take-City–County-to-Task-on-Handling-of-Shooting?

        Or, they’ll help you “commit suicide” in the jail cell, and then smash their DARs afterwards. http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/tag/vincent-mater/

        Or, they’ll beat an unarmed disabled person to death with flashlights, kick them with their boots, and electrocute them with Tasers- http://eyedrd.org/2012/06/khoa-anh-le-schizophrenic-tasered-choked-death-police-el-monte.html

        When disabled, unarmed, Kelly Thomas looked at the cops wrong, or said the wrong thing, or backed away in fear, or begged for his life, or said that he couldn’t breathe, or tried to shield his face/head from being kicked and bashed in….the cops just MURDERED him, while he was being held down by six fat cops!!

        The above quote, from John DOPE, is proof, yet again, that we need to hire MUCH, MUCH, MUCH MORE INTELLIGENT officers!!

    1. Fullerton Lover- I agree 100% with you on the parallels found in Jeremiah. Carry the judgment to the national level and you have a very accurate description of why this country is headed in the wrong direction. Thanks for the post and for giving some perspective as to the true reasons for corruption and greed in our communities and nation.

  47. Wasn’t there a study that just came out that less than 5% of fire calls are actually fire calls. Soooo….my question is, where is all this overtime in Fire Departments coming from? How is that their salaries keep getting hired when there are less and less fires? I understand there are paramedic responsibilities but the overall job has lost it’s fire fighting aspect and they are still getting outrageous salaries and overtime.

    1. Because its a scam that hasn’t been touched yet. They get paid to sleep 12 hours a day too. Amazing in this economy. It just shows the power of the fire unions. Untouchable. The OT is because they all call in sick and then backfill with OT. Vegas just uncovered the scam. Only a matter of time before others look into it. Politicians are scared to touch it because fire unions buy their political lives.

      1. No, VERY MANY would disagree, they are hired and trained from a very very very large pool of people, and are by a very large margin more than adaquately qualified, mentally and Physically. Just the Physical toll is great and by a great degree deserve many of the benefit afforded to them.

  48. Very insightful 9c1: It makes more sense how guys like Ramos, Cicinelli, and Hampton made it on the force when you know they have to fill positions in a timely manner. Sad to see such an important position would be handled so hastily.

    I’m afraid you are right IOLA. I don’t think most people would stick out four years of college to be a cop. But those who were passionate about serving the community and upholding justice would not mind. Teachers go through 5 yeasrs of school to start out at less. Have much more take home work, less lucrative pensions, and depending on where they teach and where the officer patrols, face comparable dangers.

  49. I know most of us were horrified to see the videotaped execution of an Afghan woman that has been floating on the web lately. Remember, rogue thugs who hide behind the badge are just as dangerous as the Taliban or Mexican cartels if we do not hold them accountable. This disgusting execution was very similar to the Kelly Thomas execution. both happened in the public eye, both involved a group of men killing one individual, both occurred because the group in power felt they were superior to their victim and needed to make an example of their power. I question which was more inhumane.

    1. That Afghan women should have talked back. Men rule their women over there. If they don’t like what you do or if they remove that veil, they well stone them to death. So not even close Brandon. Stop comparing other countries to Fullerton. You are making yourself look stupid.

  50. Anonymous :
    Yeah, because they’re banned from international banking transactions, not because of loss of faith in the dollar . . . I’d call that more of a harbinger of Iran’s stupidity . . . not the end of the financial world as we know it.
    They’ve also done trades with India using freakin’ rupees. It’s not exactly something to watch.

    You watch a lot of Fox news parroting the talking points. Iran and China and the Russians and even Chavez after he got screwed with the derivatives. We have alot more to worry about than what you have been lead to believe. They have been working behind the scenes for years to help finish off the greenback.

  51. merijoe :
    Oh, gottcha, thanks, that’s quite a payraise. I get 1 or 2 percent of my salary a year in payraising, dependant on my performance eval.

    Isn’t pay raise two words?…Grammar Police, JFA?

    1. John Doe,
      Wow! You asked for my advice? How sweet!
      The spelling/grammar/vocabulary/word usage DUNCE of ALL TIME, John Doe, who can’t write two sentences without embarrassing himself, FINALLY found a tiny mistake that someone else made!

      If someone makes a spacing/spelling/typo error once in a while, (such as this very minor typo), I have no problem with it at all.

      However, CONGRATULATIONS are definitely in order for you!! You must have worked really hard ALL DAY to try to figure out that merijoe left out one space between two words!! (Unless, of course, you cheated and asked your cat to help you find the mistake.)

      NOW, since it appears that you may be trying to make an effort to look for mistakes, HOPEFULLY, you will begin to proof read and correct YOUR OWN comments, so that AT LEAST SOME of your comments will come CLOSE to making sense!!

      Hint: Do yourself a huge favor. If you have no idea what a word means, or even if you are not quite sure, -DON’T USE IT. If you don’t know how to spell a work, look it up.

      And, MOST importantly, whenever you write your usual pathetic garbage fiction, trying to make excuses and trying to blame others for YOUR PFD crimes of TORTURE and MURDER -just hit the DELETE key!

  52. SAN BERNARDINO – Forget the politics and look at the math, city employee unions are saying in the wake of statements by city officials pegging them with much of the blame for the city’s decision to pursue bankruptcy.
    In the document saying the city should prepare for bankruptcy, Acting City Manager Travis-Miller wrote that employee retirements cost the city $1.9million in fiscal year 2011-2012, notes John Marini, director of the San Bernardino Professional Firefighters’ executive board.

    That’s just a fraction of the city’s projected deficit of $45 million, he says.

    “We’re being scapegoated,” Marini said. “Our contract’s stayed the same, and we’ve lost 19 firefighters.”

    Mayor Pat Morris and some City Council members have said the city’s labor costs – particularly skyrocketing pensions – were among the biggest factors contributing to the ongoing deficit.

    Indeed, Travis-Miller’s report said that three-quarters of the city’s general fund is spent on employee compensation, with most of that going to police officers and firefighters.

    And according to state data from 2010, many public safety officials make far more than most city residents.

    More than 200 Police Department employees made more than $100,000 in a year in wages subject to Medicare, including one sergeant who made $317,179, according to database of the California State Controller’s Office.

    More than 100 Fire Department employees had earnings more than that $100,000 threshold, according to the database.

    The city’s charter requires that salaries be set at the median of 10 similar cities, but the much-higher totals come because of heavy overtime.

    And it’s only fair that people working that much – at a job that must be done for the sake of safety – be paid well for it, say members of both the police and firefighter unions.

    “We’re doing the work of two or more people,” said firefighter Rich Lentine, another executive board director. “We’d like to do less – we’d like to go home. But the city won’t hire more firefighters, even though we’ve asked them to.”

    A full crew of firefighters has to be ready to get to an emergency – medical or fire – within six minutes, Marini said.

    “No one wants to pay for a standing army,” he said. “But it’s not always wartime, and you need to have one ready.”

    City officials have suggested closing some stations to lower demands on overtime, but that would mean it would take more than six minutes to get to calls, Marini said.

    Travis-Miller wrote that the effect on response time would be minimal. But a minute can mean the difference between life and death, Marini said.

    Similarly, police have been stretched thin by inadequate staffing and a high crime rate and must work long hours to get the job done, said Steve Turner, president of the San Bernardino Police Officers Association.

    Turner said morale in the police union is down because of a perception that city leaders don’t support police officers, but they will continue to protect the city.

    “It’s unfortunate that the mayor decided to blame the employees and specifically public safety for what’s been going on when the reality is, the truth is, we’re in this situation because of the poor management of the funds by the mayor and council.”

    Contracts for both unions have the city picking up the employees’ 9percent share of pension costs, an arrangement that became common when the state pension fund was flush but which many local governments are moving away from as budgets tighten.

    That’s part of what needs to change, said Councilman Fred Shorett.

    “I support our employees, and I want them treated fairly, paid fairly, and I want to provide a good quality working environment for them,” he said.

    But contracts are bound to get out of control when unions support certain elected officials – as they do heavily in San Bernardino – and those officials are in charge of voting on the unions’ contracts.

    “I do not support public unions – you cannot have the employee on one side of the table and the person that they’re contributing to the campaign on the other side,” Shorett said. “That’s not going to lead to fair negotiations, and the proof is in the pudding.”

  53. The Answer :
    I think this statement says a lot about his intentions.
    “The majority of the time I’m successful in gaining voluntary compliance in dealing with them,” he said.
    …If he’s in this for “compliance” and “cooperation” then he really isn’t into it for the right reasons. Hes been on the force long enough to know there is a lot more to policing than just compliance.
    I hate to know what he’ll do if they aren’t compliant. A normal person with good intentions would use words such as “trust”.
    This is a good example of a good honest cop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9yIBOnbJjY
    Notice that this officer is not wearing a bunch of crap on his body. The same can’t be said about DeCaprio who loves wear all sorts of garb meant to intimidate people then strut around in 90 degree weather.

    Once this media bullshit is swept under the rug Fullerton will come back to police control.

    1. Most intelligent police officer I’ve seen in awhile. His parents and children should all be proud of him. I would be.

  54. Dear Agree,

    I am worried about the PTSD in ex-military personnel also. These effects, that are left untreated, can be a deadly combination, given the fact that these men and women are going from one stressful career into another.

    RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED

    1. A large percentage of people who are attracted to police work and get hired are head cases who slip through the cracks – the psych screenings are mostly a farce that weed out people only with serious mental illness. Neurotics and those with underlying mental issues (but are not conducive to police work) that don’t necessarily interfere with day to day function get a pass (as long as they have the right connections). It is no surprise why so much disproportional weight is given to the 30 minute oral interview in the hiring process – all of which is totally discretionary.

      A large percentage of cops come from very dysfunctional families (alcoholics, drug abusers, batterers, emotionally distant, etc… caretakers) and have issues (many time ‘anger’ issues) that they have never acknowledged or resolved. Those issues are projected onto the general public in their day to day duties.

      The hiring process in LE must change for the system to improve and heal. With these extraordinary salaries and pension benefits the MINIMUM educational requirement should be a 4 years college degree from an accredited university. The current GED standard requirement is part of the scam that allows insiders to get their kids, relatives and friends hired who should never have an LE job.

      1. Not neurotics. Narcissists. Bullies of course are attracted the badge and gun because it gives them superiority over others whom they couldn’t normally challenge.

        Consider men like Goodrich, Wolfe and Ramos: lazy, fat, out of shape clowns who would be virtually unemployable outside the realm of coppery.

        I agree completely with the dysfunctional family observation, as well as the need to winnow out as many of these products as possible.

        1. All fine points and well received, Dr. Ott.

          However please enlighten me. To be a Narcissist doesn’t that imply that the subject in question is a a product of self-love? My assessment is that these cops unconsciously hate themselves and hence ‘act out’ by projecting their self-hate in form of rage and anger on other whom they are able to control with badge and gun.

          Please comment as I respect your professional expert opinion.

          1. Alas, I am not Dr. Ott, just a student of his.

            Narcissism is character disorder derived from a twisted sense of reality, a fantasy in which the individual suffers from self-delusional grandiosity. It follows that others must be debased in order to call attention to his own superbness.

            The bully on the other hand may be acting our of narcissistic impulse, or, as you note, rage and sadism that likely stems from his own abuse as a child. All narcissists are bullies but not all bullies are narcissists.

            Jobs that require wearing uniforms and carrying a gun will attract both kinds.

            The various internal disorders commonly known as neuroses may indeed afflict some cops, but they would likely not lead to the the sort of intense hostility you are referring to. If a neurosis were to lead to “self-loathing” it would not express itself in outward belligerence.

            1. Its not always physical abuse, “it is an epidemic in women”

              If a man avoids one thing in a woman, he will increase his chances of long-term happiness a thousand fold:
              ********************************************
              Female Narcissism

              It used to be that the word narcissist wasn’t thrown around lightly. We saved it for sociopaths and historical figures like Machiavelli and Napolean. Female examples were rare, and generally found in fiction: Rebecca of the Daphne Du Maurier novel, Gloria Swanson as Norma Desmond in the 1950 film Sunset Boulevard. In its worst form it is a diagnosable personality disorder (NPD), and historically, 75% of those diagnosed with NPD have been male. However, researchers who have recently studied narcissistic personality traits in the American population say it’s an epidemic, increasing just as fast as obesity since the 1980s, and that much of the growth comes from women.
              http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2010/06/28/relationshipstrategies/20-identifiable-traits-of-a-female-narcissist/

              I think that living with a Narcissistic Mother is possibly one of the most horrendous abuses of children, because – depending where on the Narcissistic Spectrum our mother is located – it can be so subtle that we don’t even realise we’re being abused.
              http://daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/daughters-of-
              narcissistic-mothers.html
              Read more:
              http://daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/daughters-of-narcissistic-mothers.html#ixzz20dpyUfVB

    2. One has to be careful to make an assumed correlation between veterans and PTSD. Not everyone coming home from combat suffers from PTSD. And what we know is that those with PTSD who have the support of their loved ones and friends are those who will most successfully heal.

      Despite what the media portrays, many men and women with military police training have a very rigorous system of training, oversight and accountability that blows by –well, the Fullerton PD for instance.
      Their inclusion will be not only undeniable, but also positive.

      While it is right to worry about PTSD and how it affects veterans and their families, do remember that veterans account for only 10% of the total PTSD population (the majority of them are women, girls and teen age boys).

      In addition –veterans have more access to mental health services than the civilian population with PTSD. They also have a military community support system that is always close by, and also encourages them to get help.

      I would have more faith in a military veteran who applied for a police position, than a civilian with an pathological bully streak, whose tendencies have been both supported and overlooked by his family, and in fact gave rise to them.

  55. Remember- between 2%-4% of the population is sociopathic. These types are adept at deception and some are bound to make it past any psych screen.

  56. Come on EVERYBODY, ( EXCLUDING THE FEW HEARTLESS PHYSCOPATHS WE ALL KNOW ON HERE!!!) But all the other decent people with a heart, and who realizes the horrific murder these 6 cops did, and care…. we need to go to ”CHANGE.ORGKELLY THOMAS”!!!! Let`s get all friends and families to sign these top two petitions!!! Most important one…. being, ”Remove all 6 cops”!!!! There are SO MANY people signing these petitions from MANY other states, and even COUNTRIES!!! mANY HAVE SIGNED FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM!!! Come on people, let`s see how many we can get ”added” over even this week-end!!!! Call ( or e-mail everyone you know, who will sign also!!!! LET`S GO!!!!! And, thanks to ”Brandon” who first brought it to MY attention!!!!! I`ve gotten several friends& family to sign already, & I`m not thru yet!!!!

  57. It’s very difficult to justify the upholding of the pension system when we are paying them these high salaries.

    Were they business owners, they would be expected to put aside a portion of what they make for retirement.

    As public employees, the assumption when the unions were first started was that they were taking dangerous jobs (firefighters, firemen) or that others (administrators) were sacrificing an ability to make more money in the private sector. However, the union has given rise to big salaries, and in the case of firefighters –very expensive over time, plus a pension system that is unsustainable.

    So now, we have the reverse situation: high salaries, and a taken-for-granted pension system that keeps some retired public employees rolling in the comfort of a six-figure monthly paycheck. No doubt they would disagree, but there is some truth that the people who pay the most to keep those with plush yearly pensions comfortable are our children –whose schools, libraries, parks, and other things they should enjoy are increasingly cut back.

  58. Please note that that the pension cost alone represents 40% of safety employees base salary.

    If you are in the private sector, all your benefits combined are less than 40%. Thoose benefits would include health insurance, vacation, holiday and sick pay, 401K matching, etc.

    Where is the logic and equity when the taxpayer provides benefits unheard of in the private sector? Answer: There is none!

  59. How about training in Civil Rights, and Zero lackadaisical attitudes toward everyone.
    ****************************************************
    Civil Rights, buisnessdictionary.com Definition

    “Personal rights acquired by an individual by being a citizen or resident, or automatic entitlements to certain freedoms conferred by law or custom. Certain civil rights (such as the right to equality, freedom, good governance, justice, and due process of law) are inalienable like human rights and natural rights, whereas others (such as the right to hold a public office) depend on one’s conduct and can be lost. Also called civil liberties.”

    lack·a·dai·si·cal   [lak-uh-dey-zi-kuhl]
    adjective
    1.
    without interest, vigor, or determination; listless; lethargic: a lackadaisical attempt.
    2.
    lazy; indolent: a lackadaisical fellow.

  60. These peoples salaries are a bit much but tolerable. The pensions for management positions on the other should be adjusted down to rank and file scales since none of them deserve to earn as much or more when retired as they did when working…

    1. Dont forget they took over the City, Mc Satan, Rumplehead and Col FOOL, and all the other CORRUPT ones.

      Pay should be dependent on performance.

      But this is California! as California goes so does the Nation! DEADLY UNEMPLOYMENT, DEBT, and BAD POLITICIANS. Vote more of the fools out, (State, Federal).

  61. I won’t point out which one of uses correct grammar, spelling, sentence structure, and logic Mrs. Doe. You already get bagged on enough for that. As far as the difference between the executions, the Afghan woman did not have to die a slow, painful death lie Kelly Thomas. I bet you’d love getting that ass of yours slapped around by a big strong Afghan man. You should book a one way ticket.

  62. speaking of “compensation” there are several “existing litigation” items on the July 17, 2012 Closed Session agenda for the City Council – 10 or more, I think

  63. Former Cudahy mayor, city official agree to plead guilty to bribery charges

    ***********************************
    Last month officials released transcripts of an FBI wiretap that indicated Perales, Silva and City

    Councilman Osvaldo Conde took bribes in exchange for their support of a proposed medical marijuana clinic.

    The wiretaps laid out the workings of a corrupt city where cash was passed out in envelopes, prostitution was nearly legal and everyone from sheriff’s deputies to low-level city employees was on the take.
    Perales and Silva admitted to taking $5,000 each from the dispensary owner.

    Read more: Former Cudahy mayor, city official agree to plead guilty to bribery charges – Whittier Daily News http://www.whittierdailynews.com/news/ci_21063014/former-cudahy-mayor-city-official-agree-plea-guilty#ixzz20e9nud7C

    1. Good question. If that figure of 60% is true, I wonder what percentage of the remainder of annual tax revenue is delegated towards meeting the city’s current payroll?

  64. At the risk of appearing ignorant, has there ever been a bill written in California to limit pension and public servant payouts and benefits to what CURRENT taxpayer revenue is instead of basing future payouts on projected revenue?

    What bank will loan any of us money on a speculative income instead of proven and actual documented revenue?

  65. I used to work for the City of Fullerton up until July 2011, I worked for the city for ll years and finally had enough and left.
    I can’t really speak for all of the departments in the city. The guys out in the field for the maintenance department, those guys and I worked hard for the money that we received. That is not to say that there are some bad apples that are just lazy and made it look bad for the rest that worked hard. Once people got in to management positions, that’s when the laziness starts to take over. I would suggest that the people of Fullerton look and all of the management department for the city of Fullerton, especially management at city hall. I’d like to say that you’ll be surprised at what you will find, but I think you really won’t be.

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