So Now We Know

A keen eyed observer forwarded the plea to raise bail money for accused Fullerton killer cop Manny Ramos, by someone named Benjamin Lira, on a website called Big City Cop. We posted about this earlier today.

There is an FPD cop named Benjamin Lira so this is no case of mistaken identity.

The logo of this charming association of paranoid bullies with guns and badges is a skull and crossbones set. Across the forehead of the skull is the telling phrase (in Latin) oderint dum metuant.

Now you know the moral fiber of your enemy. Non-existant.

“Let them hate so long as they fear.” The favored phrase of the Roman Emperor Caligula, who favored incest, murder, incest, oh, and did I say murder? Now that’s fitting.

Yet a curious motto for people sworn to serve and protect the public; but not at all strange for those afflicted with a twisted narcissism co-joined with a deep paranoia and a pathetic sense of entitlement.

How sick minds like these ever got hold of badges and guns is beyond me, but not beyond enablers like Pat McKinley who is one of them.

A comet came to take them away.

Oh, yes. It is a cult.

365 Replies to “So Now We Know”

      1. “Yet a curious motto for people sworn to serve and protect the public”

        is the public perfect? i think you need to wake up if you don’t realize theres a crazy public out there, and unfortunately thats what law enforcement deals with. no police not the firemen, they put people in jail, there’s a huge difference. why wasnt your cause so gung-hoe for the Brian stow beating? im asuming your so fired up because youve been punished before for making a wrong choice. are the tattooed gangbanging punks not in the umbrella of your public? its a sick sad world out there and its not getting any better, so you actually want to put down those who do serve and protect? these are individual people who have made wrong choices, don’t throw everyone under your bus. i think you need to speak less, & listen and watch a bit more. is this blog still ran by a bum? seriously is it? if you care so much about the public why are you a bum and not doing something that helps the community? i think your transparency is rather obvious guy

        1. I’m going to answer in English, which might make it difficult for you to comprehend (if your posts are any indication), but let’s give this a shot.

          Brian Stow was viciously beaten by scumbags who were NOT protected by badges, gun, confidentiality, unions, or any other branch of government. I’m willing to bet that everyone sickened by the cowardly scumbags who murdered Kelly Thomas were just as repulsed by the equally cowardly act of the perpetrators in that case.

          I don’t really understand, though, how one heinous act mitigates the perpetrators in another, but then again, I’m not still stuck in my reptilian brain.

        2. uh? :
          “Yet a curious motto for people sworn to serve and protect the public”
          is the public perfect? i think you need to wake up if you don’t realize theres a crazy public out there, and unfortunately thats what law enforcement deals with. no police not the firemen, they put people in jail, there’s a huge difference. why wasnt your cause so gung-hoe for the Brian stow beating? im asuming your so fired up because youve been punished before for making a wrong choice. are the tattooed gangbanging punks not in the umbrella of your public? its a sick sad world out there and its not getting any better, so you actually want to put down those who do serve and protect? these are individual people who have made wrong choices, don’t throw everyone under your bus. i think you need to speak less, & listen and watch a bit more. is this blog still ran by a bum? seriously is it? if you care so much about the public why are you a bum and not doing something that helps the community? i think your transparency is rather obvious guy

          here ill make it easier for everyone to understand as you all sit there and throw rocks from your tough little keyboards:

          psalms 118:8 “It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man.”

        3. If you can’t do the job DON’T! One wrong choice? No it is called MURDER and the main difference is, you can’t just quit your job and everything is ok and get to go home no questions asked. They swear to up hold thee law non of the public do this and were held to a higher standard then the police. Please there has always been crazy people and to label the whole of the US crazy and that they can act on what they want to do rather then what the law says, is crazy. Be an example not part of the problem and what you think calling a person a bum makes it ok to be little them, who are you and why are you better? It comes down to justice and the public does not have that.

          All things aside there is a thing called the law and the people swore to uphold it are the first to break it in the name of saving it. Just because it is easier does not make it right, it is hard to be a cop and yes they deal with a lot but they have a power and a duty this is why they need to set an example. It is not easy so don’t think that for one min just killing a person was legal or that hard. UP HOLD THE LAW NOT WHAT YOU THINK THE LAW IS AND COPS ARE NOT A JURY AND DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO STREET JUSTICE.

        4. Big City Cops is a subculture of the police it appears. Most police that have looked at their site say they are not real cops, but thugs who have infiltrated police departments and should never carry a badge. They are a hate group that needs to be under surveillance by federal authorities. Several of us have reported them recently, so I suspect they are. I plan on reporting them again.

      1. how cute someone watched a cool old movie and thinks they understand the world with xray vison. Fairy ruined that campaign, but hey nice try on the name drop son. now go learn something a little more useful for the world instead of crying.

      1. It should be:
        K through 12 + 2 years of surfing + 2 years of school + 4 years of service + 2more years of surfing + 10 years of civil life + 4 years of lawenforcment = happy and healthy society.

  1. Humanity is shit..

    I hope the FEDS FIRE ALL OF THEM

    I cannot believe this has happened to Evolution and Civilization

    Cops are lower than whale sperm if they belong to that group..

    If they keep badges and are part of a group that stands for

    LET THEM HATE AS LONG AS THEY FEAR.. they should do Evolution a favor and remove themselves from the gene pool

    1. uh riiiight.. so the gene pool is already screwed as the dumb keep having more children, who grow up not fearing or respecting the law, which eventually affects you as a citizen when your cars broken into or your child is raped or killed by a drunk driver. your so smart, you must be under that good ol public umbrella! so actually the comment does make sense to me because you seem to be hating a cause that protects you… hmmm… evolution has been tarnished because of morons like you who keep reproducing more morons. im sorry its just to obvious. come on respectful PUBlC law abiding citizens please reproduce, its clear the gene pool is the now the dregs of society thanks to your comment, its so reassuring we need more to provide moral judgement on this planet.

      1. Okay, I HAVE to ask…

        What is a “PUBIC law abiding citizens” and how curly would their hair have to be??????

    1. In many departments, “officer” is the generic classification; an officer can be assigned to a detective unit (“detective”), a traffic unit (“motor officer”), or a patrol unit.

      He may have changed job assignments (i.e., rotated out of a detective unit).

  2. McKinley has apparently had an epiphany regarding the benefits of P.R. or “damage control.”
    Did anyone hear KABC 79 talk radio host John Phillips interview this evening (29 Sept.) with Councilman McKinley? I attempted to call in but in the last half of the interview I was able to listen to; a few minutes before the end of the McKinley segment, Phillips only took one call from a Fullerton resident who claimed that most of the people complaining about the Kelly Thomas incident were troublemakers “…from outside Fullerton.”
    McKinley made numerous comments in the same vein, saying that 70% of the people at the protests are not from Fullerton.
    Phillips questions were blatantly pro-FPD.
    McKinley corrected himself numerous times for saying “we” when referring to the FPD, as if he was still chief.
    He had a very calm demeanor about him, almost disgustingly so when one is well-informed about the background and activities of the Council and FPD.

    1. and why would it possibly matter to that cue ball head where the protestors are from? murder is murder anywhere especially by cops and their corrupt leaders

      1. I agree Merijoe. This isn’t just about Fullerton. A man was murdered by someone who was supposed to protect him. Who cares where the the human rights supporters are from. I’ just glad they are coming!

      2. If they’re from out of town then that would defeat the argument that the Justice for Kelly Thomas movement is a vehicle for political opponents of Fullerton city government. Hmmm….

    2. Sissynelli the killer does not live in Fullerton…. but he sure messed things up around there thanks to McKinley. In McKinleys world it is okay to be from out of town and murder people but it is wrong to be from out of town and protest murder……. Hypocrite.

    3. I guess when he gets voted out, he will finally admit that many of the Fullerton’s residents want him OUT too!

      What an arrogant piece of work.

      Fullerton is not an island onto itself. The city gets money from our National, state, and county government. There are also laws from each of this jurisdictions, so what happens in Fullerton affects EVERYONE.

    4. What trouble? Where? I have not seen or heard of any. Isnt Sellers living in san clemente? 3/4 of FPD are not residents of fullerton, so explain that. They come to Fullerton to work,beat,rape and murder and go to their quiet lil suburban home outside of Fullerton. Now, c’mon.

      1. Hey keystone- I asked sevral officers why they dont live int he city, one took his family to a local eatery and lo and behold a guy that he arrested- for seriously bad crap was in the booth next to them, imagine if the guy would have recognized the cop, and do something ( maybe nothing would have happened) but I can understand why they dont want thier kids in the city, some people are crazy- hell the cops are crazy here, so your aware of status quo here- Imagine if my daughter was molested and I saw the cop at the kinkos……..you can only Imagine if I knew where he lived….my dad is a deputy sherrif and he lives in the town he polices over….people come to his house and ask him stuff all hours……he is a stand up guy,he is a tracker,search and rescue- he cares and he really polices, he is not scared- he explains look Im doing a job–I have seen felons tell him sorry….so I KNOW there are good cops……..they apparently are about to be extinct…but just an opinion as to why they dont live here- but know my dad lives in the area he polices-and he is not scared so I guess its up to the individual.

    1. Because when their plants chat it up with you, gain your trust, and then ask you personal questions like where you’re from, you answer.

      A certain percentage of people answer, a statistical analysis is performed, and you get a rough estimate. Then you exaggerate the numbers, and tell everybody that all of those from out of town are trouble makers.

  3. Please get KFI on top of this slogan and any other news media that you know. To think that there are cops out there who support this motto and mantra is sickening and extremely scary. This story just keeps getting sicker and sicker. Yes, the accused officers will get their day in court, but the fact that there are cops who support this motto in a public forum and who actively associate themselves with fear and hatred toward us tax paying citizens is a travesty. They speak openly in the comments section of infiltrating the Kelly Thomas protests to seek “intel”….be careful out there at the protest and remain peaceful. It seems they are putting people out there to incite violence so the protests become tarnished. Do not fall for it. Keep things peaceful and remember the cause. It seems like more corruption and hatred by certain rogue cops is becoming more prevalent each day. There is no need to prove a point at a peaceful protest that some LEO’s are moronic and hateful, they are doing a great job of that all on their own

    1. Wow, the criminals have infiltrated law enforcement. How did this people pass the hiring process, unless they were brought on by the other criminals in the department.

      1. Hiring process? C’mon this is exactly the type of people they are looking for.
        They’ll follow orders without question, brutalize people without hesitation, and lie without breaking a sweat to get their way.

        1. Yes, I know they don’t want independant, creative thinkers. They want thugs and followers but that’s because of the supervisors that are placed in hiring this people. They don’t want to hire officers that will be for the good of its city residents. So as always leadership or lack of comes from the top. Get rid of the officers and supervisors who are anti-residents and bring in people who work and care for its residents and love their jobs.

  4. There is more whining and crying on that piece of garbage than in a maternity ward….. Wahhh they hate cops but love the military, waahhh we put our lives on the line, wahhh dont speed if you dont like cops, wahhhh he was just a scumbag whose dad wants money, wahhh wahhh wahhh….. He wants Brian Stowes attackers put away right now and calls them cowards WITHOUT due process and a trial but he wants Kellys killers left alone because they are cops….. BIG HYPOCRITE and an EPIC FAIL. So to all you BCC scum watching this blog and taking screen shots, please post this on your crap site.

    1. DArling- someone forgot their meds…
      Honey – you need to come home now- your spaghetti o’s are ready . I told you Brian Stowe was attacked by fans- and Kelly Thomas was beaten by police officers….. true both the fans and the cops are scumbags….but other than that only tragic avoidable events……not sure where your goin here- MOmma’s trying to talk you from the ledge…..come on pudding…..

      1. Mom are you hooking for crack again? Now go back to your blog of lies and make it private so that the rest of the world cannot see you whoring yourself out.

  5. Words can’t describe how much all PD has lost my respect tonight after reading that “slogan” and to think my taxmoney goes to pay these nobodys, and, for the record, I don’t fear you, I pity you-you scumbags, all of you, there are NO good ones as far as Im concerned, as long as you back this shit and the dummys that spew it and tolerate their stupity without saying anything, you are as bad as they are. period some things are more important then a damn job-like integrity and ethics. God will get all of you- I dont care if you just staple papers in the office

    1. @merijoe#1
      I agree. I’ve been saying all along, between God and Karma, there is nowhere on earth that these scum can hide. It will catch up to them . LEO are officially lower then pedophiles on the scum totem pole. I take it back, they are sitting side by side holding hands.

  6. Wow. Talk about giving all law enforcement a bad name. That “Big City Cop” site/page is absolutely repulsive.

    There’s one guy posting actively on there — named Samuel Zavala — who actually referred to Kelly Thomas as Ron’s “useless dead bum kid” and referred to Ron as Kelly’s “c*** daddy.”

    I’m very curious if this is the same Samuel Zavala who was fired by Long Beach PD back in the 80s for sexually harassing women (sound familiar, Rincon??) —

    http://articles.latimes.com/1986-06-05/news/hl-9905_1_police-officer

    If it is the same “man,” I am grateful that his badge and gun were taken away when he was still in his 30s before he could do any more damage (now, I guess, he’s a rage-aholic in his 50s, if it’s the same one).

  7. Seems to me that this is really getting to the cops. If it were not they would just shutup and let it fade away like they claim it will. Guess seeing Killer Ramos and Killer Sissynelli on CNN and FOX along with them making headlines around the world makes them a little nervous. Heck those photos of Ramos in orange cuffed up and in the cage really got them shook up. To think one of society’s lost souls and his adamant dad ripped the veil off these clowns and even exposed the hatred cop sites have for their employers.

  8. The argument will likely be made by BCC that their slogan refers to criminals hating/fearing them, and not the general population.

    1. The original intent of the phrase is in context that all of the Romans hated Caligula but they all needed to fear him…. I am sure if someone popped off about killing all cops that BCC would not surmise that he was talking about just the bad ones. I take the phrase as it was originally intended. No I do not condone killing cops, but legally executing murderous cops suits me fine.

    2. No, I don’t think so. It would make no sense for cops to care whether criminals hated them or not.

      No, that paranoid slogan is meant for all of us – the ones who pay for their exorbitant salaries and pensions.

      Say, whatever happened to Caligula?

  9. It still tickles me pink that when they became aware their site had been exposed they immediately started tripping all over their feet and each other in their haste to make a new, closed page

    1. Yeah. And notice how the big, brave girls started warning active cops to quit commenting and let the untouchable retirees do the heavy lifting. What a bunch of demented GED cowards.

      1. again -protecting and serving – themselves- the SOB losers- I got their number and dont tell mw there’s “good ones” if they knowingly work with and tolerate those clowns then, No there arent

  10. “Let them hate so long as they fear”
    This may have been the motto of the (KKK) Ku Klux Klan.
    The same collective mentality of any gang of predators.
    BTW there are some “street gang” impersonators in the FPD that hang around the FDT bars and will escalate any altercation.
    Just plain THUGs on official assignment with no specific orders, no oversight, and no accountability.
    When the street lights come on, get out of downtown Fullerton.

  11. Well, fear, is what corrupt LEO’s have when they know we are videotaping them. It is their fear, that you and I have the power to show them executing their dirty deeds. Like I stated before, the camera does not discriminate. To all the LEO’s out there, if do good, no worry, however, to all you others, if you think you are going to get away with the garbage that some of you have been getting away with until now, think again. The camera is OUR weapon, and you have now been officially notified.
    Now, FEAR THIS…..!

  12. Save US from the Fullerton Cops :
    Wow. Talk about giving all law enforcement a bad name. That “Big City Cop” site/page is absolutely repulsive.
    There’s one guy posting actively on there — named Samuel Zavala — who actually referred to Kelly Thomas as Ron’s “useless dead bum kid” and referred to Ron as Kelly’s “c*** daddy.”
    I’m very curious if this is the same Samuel Zavala who was fired by Long Beach PD back in the 80s for sexually harassing women (sound familiar, Rincon??) —
    http://articles.latimes.com/1986-06-05/news/hl-9905_1_police-officer
    If it is the same “man,” I am grateful that his badge and gun were taken away when he was still in his 30s before he could do any more damage (now, I guess, he’s a rage-aholic in his 50s, if it’s the same one).

    Wow, what a bunch of ignorant fucks. You may be right about the Samuel guy. And that skull idiot needs to take his meds. Seriously delusional.

  13. Okay how about their remark re: gathering intel?

    If no one in the protest/blog is doing anything other than protesting/blogging, why the need for intel?

    Unless you plan to target those involved for harrassment of some kind, possibly more/worse.

    1. Yeah, they’re ridiculous. It’s not like anyone is sharing secrets on the public page made to support ensuring Justice for Kelly.

  14. Bad cops end up bad for a few reasons. Cop culture like on the BCC site serves to dehumanize average and/or vulnerable citizens, making them more open to abuse.

  15. Also re: the remark about how they have a group of people to “care for their parked cars,” I cannot see a person or people brazenly molesting cars on foot, but I do forsee objects being thrown from passing cars.

  16. Holy fuck this BCC guy is one piece of work:

    “Damon Moÿsard Their page is open for anyone to post on it. I think that means they’re welcoming our opinion to be posted on their page. They’re all a bunch of flaming liberals. All about rights you know. They must not want to infringe upon our right to voice our opposing opinion on how some “gentle” meatwhistle with a mental disorder and a felony record for aggravated battery, who attacks a cop deserves to die just like anyone else who attacks a cop, right? And that his deadbeat dad is a fucking pariah trying to make a buck off the death of his retarded son he abandoned on the back of society because the best part of him ran down his moms thigh and became a stain of a flop house mattress?”

  17. HEY Bad Bitches Club BBC

    THE REAL HEROS ARE FIREMEN
    BRIAN STOW IS NOT YOUR BROTHER
    HE MOST LIKELY DESPISE’S YOUR SORRY LOT
    FIREMEN (real heros) HATE PIGS (real cowards).

    you dont protect anyone except yourselves!!!

  18. merijoe#1 :
    and why would it possibly matter to that cue ball head where the protestors are from? murder is murder anywhere especially by cops and their corrupt leaders

    I had a number of questions to pose to McKinley. If I were to have had the chance to speak to him on air, I would’ve either handed his ass to him, or be cut off due to “cell phone connection issues.”

  19. My Username Rocks :
    Holy fuck this BCC guy is one piece of work:
    “Damon Moÿsard Their page is open for anyone to post on it. I think that means they’re welcoming our opinion to be posted on their page. They’re all a bunch of flaming liberals. All about rights you know. They must not want to infringe upon our right to voice our opposing opinion on how some “gentle” meatwhistle with a mental disorder and a felony record for aggravated battery, who attacks a cop deserves to die just like anyone else who attacks a cop, right? And that his deadbeat dad is a fucking pariah trying to make a buck off the death of his retarded son he abandoned on the back of society because the best part of him ran down his moms thigh and became a stain of a flop house mattress?”

    PAID WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS

    Money stolen from your children and elderly relatives etc

    They want you to get so mad you cannot tolerate even acknowledging they exist

    1. Speaking of tax payer’s money. This nutjob “cop” Ben Lira was using the police main line as a means to solicit money for Ramos.

      This isn’t a scheme to take your money, and if you’ve read this far, I’m sure you’re considering donating. For your assurance, I ask that anyone with doubts call the front desk of the Fullerton Police Department and verify my information and purpose.

      I’m sure some laws were broken there but who is going to prosecute?

      And how much you want to bet this dirtbag is going to double dip by pocketing the donations then going after the Ramos family for the full 100,000?

      I’m 100% positive he’s not going to release bank statements EVER.

      1. Fullerton PD has a so-called internal investigation open so I wonder if he was a part of that investigation.

        How would one obtain a list of FPD investigators assigned to the beating investigation?

      2. I can NOT believe, after all the trouble going on with FPD that BEN LIRA is using the Fullerton PD main phone line to solicit money for a co-worker accused of murder. Where does this shit end?
        IF THERE ARE ANY NEW OUTLETS READING THIS, PLEASE REPORT ABOUT IT! THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE. Our tax dollars were just spend getting charges pressed on Ramos, just so our tax dollars could be spent bailing him out with FPD employee’s fielding phone calls and answering questions.

  20. Save US from the Fullerton Cops :
    Wow. Talk about giving all law enforcement a bad name. That “Big City Cop” site/page is absolutely repulsive.
    There’s one guy posting actively on there — named Samuel Zavala — who actually referred to Kelly Thomas as Ron’s “useless dead bum kid” and referred to Ron as Kelly’s “c*** daddy.”
    I’m very curious if this is the same Samuel Zavala who was fired by Long Beach PD back in the 80s for sexually harassing women (sound familiar, Rincon??) —
    http://articles.latimes.com/1986-06-05/news/hl-9905_1_police-officer
    If it is the same “man,” I am grateful that his badge and gun were taken away when he was still in his 30s before he could do any more damage (now, I guess, he’s a rage-aholic in his 50s, if it’s the same one).

    Just visited the site. It’s very newsworthy. Some of the posts are extremely militant, to say the least.

    How about this post:

    Big City Cops
    FULLERTON CA: One of my pals just sent me this… seems this is what’s gotten them all riled up again…

    Now the “protesters” are blaming the courts… the same courts they lauded a few days ago when they indicted these two Officers…

    According to their comments, they’re now in cahoots with the Officers… and Kelly’s father, the same guy who tossed Kelly out like trash and obtained a restraining order is now claiming that he’s being targeted by another agency…gees…

    Glad Manny and Jay are home with their families… God Bless our LEOs…”

  21. Well, the main (?) person in BCC is posting LE updates from all over the country, so it’s hard to say.

    I doubt it’s strictly a CA LEO group.

  22. I say let us turn their own motto back
    upon them. Let them hate as long as they fear the Constitution of the United States and the notion that government arrises from the consent of the governed.

    Who dares to contest me?

      1. You had to poke into my famous inability to deal in foreign languages. But I looked it up, and yes, aequitas equitas. I also posted my opinion on the Big City Cop website.

        Seriously, I think that this webiste should adopt the slogan back at them. “Let them hate, as long as they fear”, with the understanding that we are not embracing a demonic skull and crossbones but embracing the United States Constitution and justice.

        Let them hate the consent of the governed. Let them hate the DA. Let them hate the FBI. Let them hate me.

    1. I believe the BCC guy would find this disrespectful and insulting. And his supporters would find this evil and hatefilled. How dare you?!?

  23. “Let them hate, so long as they fear” is very unsettling. Whoever is a part of that group, or supports that motto should be investigated.

      1. FYI, there are 141,000 residents in Fullerton, well over 3,000,000 in Otange County, and nearly 21,000.00 in the six-county Southern California costal area.

        1. Nice. My point was that a lot of Corporations and departments “like” that page. They should be informed of what that page really stands for.

  24. If you look at the ankles of some cops, they have tattoos of their “Click”. I am sure some of them have that saying engraved somewhere in their bodies.

  25. WOW, this Big City Cops guy is piece of work.

    I find it intriguing how he disrespectfully insults someone with the words: “and I thought you were one of the intelligent ones” and then immediately has the nerve to follow up with the rant: “have I been disrespectful or mean towards you… my anonymity would certainly allow it, but it’s not in me… it’s not the way I operate…but dont let there be a doubt in your mind that evils still lives in me“.

    This is a first class God Complex. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_complex for reference). This man can do NO WRONG and anybody even questioning or disagreeing with him is perceived as personally disrespectful and insulting toward HIM.

    I love how this comment finishes with the words “dont let there be a doubt in your mind that evils still lives in me“. Yeah, we know douchebag. We know. It’s right there in your douchebag motto.

    He follows up with a parting shot “The side which blurts out insults first automatically looses all credibility“. This was directed at a Facebook user who did not once insult him.

    1. When asked about his anonymity and why he hides behind it and who he is, he refused to answers, replying: “I”m John Q. Citizen“.

      Later, in the same exact Facebook comment thread, he replies: “you shouldn’t want to hide behind anonymity…have I been disrespectful or mean towards you… my anonymity would certainly allow it

      How this savage hypocrisy escaped his intellectual abilities I’ll never understand. Why do so many of the pro-brutality crowd websites/comments/posts come off as so blatantly stupid and/or hypocritical that they all look like parodies or pranks?

  26. KTLA Channel 5 just had an exclusive about the City of Fullerton offering a settlement to the plaintiffs that were groped and raped by Officer Rincon.
    They interviewed the DA who threw it out ‘because several of the witnesses got together in a van and coroberated their stories’.
    Goes to show you, the DA would not have done a thing with those 6 officers involved in the Kelly Thomas beating if it wasn’t for the city camera video, but more importantly, the citizens standing up and making noise.

    1. However, the D.A. doesn’t seem to mind the fact that the six cops who murdered Kelly watched the videos, corroborated THEIR stories, and re-wrote and re-wrote their reports. And, they have also been corroborating their stories for the past three months while they’ve all been hanging out together on paid leave.

  27. The fact that Lira felt comfortable enough to say call the desk to verify should tell everyone that has a brain that his actions are sanctioned by the upper management of the FPD. As a side note re the preamble of this particular post one of the charecheristics of many LEO is a tremendous feeling of inferiority that they compensate for by carrying the badge and gun

    1. Exactly. His confidence that he was backed up, along with Ramos’s confidence that he could have eyewitnesses, a light pole camera, and audio recordings all without fear of consequences, seems to speak to the fact that something is awry in the FPD.

      Most people would be fired on the spot for supporting a cause and then affiliating their employer with that cause…but especially when their employer is a government-run organization that serves to protect citizens and is paid for by tax-payer money? And the cause is the release of an accused murderer? Unbelievable.

    2. MP58–some are indeed overcompensating for a profound sense of inadequacy; these are the ones exhibiting the angry and violent behaviors towards their own citizens.

  28. I just saw this as well. Oh my frickin goodness, apparently the accusations must have had some teeth as the city is going to settle. Inncredible……..

    Of greater importance to me is the fact this guy is only on administrative leave and conceivably be back on the force. Now it has crossed the line because I have a young daughter and nieces who live in Fullerton and could potentially be the next victim for this officer. This is now officially out of control and the FBI needs to step in ASAP……..

    What kind of police force do we have ??????????
    What kind of leaders do we have ???????????????

  29. T-Rack had no choice after all of the attention this murder has generated if he had his way he would have ignored this case as he has ignored each and every otherr case of abuse committed by LEO he is a hypocrite of the highest order

  30. Power Hungry, Corrupt, Saddistic, Steroid-Injected (with little manhood as a result), Badged-Apes,etc.
    Does that answer your questions???

  31. Did you also hear Sheriff Lee Baca trying to defend his deputies physical abuses cases in Men’s Central? What a Lyin’, Bald-headed Candy-ass, Wad-spewin’ POS idiot he has turned out to be.
    He also denied the fact that there are no gangs within the deputies in Men’s Central. There was a story in the L.A. Times a few months ago where a fight broke out at a Holiday gathering at a bar in Montebello for some of the L.A. County Sheriff’s. The scuffle was between the 1st and 3rd floor gang of deputies at Men’s Central.
    Very few of our communities in So Cal are safe with CORRUPT city officials and thug-like policing.

    1. Their deputies stripped a central american inmate naked, beat him then threw him in a cell where he was raped and beaten by other inmates.

      There are some SICK bastards working in law enforcement.

        1. That report on LASD is incredible. Baca needs to read up on Bushido and do the honorable thing. I’m not saying seppuku, but at least resign.

  32. 9c1copcar :
    If you look at the ankles of some cops, they have tattoos of their “Click”. I am sure some of them have that saying engraved somewhere in their bodies.

    Those are targets for people to use their cars on

    1. “any thing or person that is paid with our tax dollars to protect us YET IS A PART OF BCC.. doesn’t even deserve due process”

      I STRONGLY disagree. No matter who you are or what Facebook group you’re part of, due process is CONSTITUTIONAL and required for anything remotely resembling legitimate justice.

  33. I can’t wait for tomorrow to see what the excuses and justifications are going to be for this pervert ………….

    The punch line will probably be that Fullerton is going to pay good TAXPAYER money to settle a case for an officer wrongfully accused by several women of something, while in reality, he really did nothing. And he is off on admin leave for doing that nothing…..

    Trust him, he didn’t do it but promises not to do it again.

      1. Online petitions are a joke and can be signed by anyone multiple times.

        No one in power takes internet petitions seriously. There are thousands of these “petitions” posted on the internet that never go anywhere.

        Signing one is just a waste of time. The only purpose of an online petition is to inflate the ego of the person who created it.

  34. I read about the LA case on iepolitics.com some months ago via a reposted LA Times article.

    When I heard about the Kelly Thomas case on KFI, I called my cousin Sharon Kennedy at the Fullerton Observer withing minutes. One of the things I tried to tell her is that the Kelly Thomas beating is not isolated. It is a pattern of behavior that is infecting our region if not beyond.

    She told me that there would be a two month pause while the DA completed his investigation. In the meantime I could write a letter but cautioned me to keep it on Fullerton.

    Love you Sharon. Can you hear me now?

    1. Now I know why you can’t write a complete sentence;you are related to Sharon Kennedy. Like her daddy, Sharon embellishes her accomplishments, like being a successful artist. Which college did Sharon Kennedy earn her degree in art? Has Sharon ever earned enough money from sale of her “Optimism” painting style to get off welfare?

      1. There are a couple typos above and I forget one pronoun, but all of the sentences are complete. Do you realize the high percentage of your comments that are bitterly ad hominem and fail to further an idea?

        You remind me of “Bipolar skank” from one or two years ago.

  35. Steve Brow :I read about the LA case on iepolitics.com some months ago via a reposted LA Times article.
    When I heard about the Kelly Thomas case on KFI, I called my cousin Sharon Kennedy at the Fullerton Observer withing minutes. One of the things I tried to tell her is that the Kelly Thomas beating is not isolated. It is a pattern of behavior that is infecting our region if not beyond.
    She told me that there would be a two month pause while the DA completed his investigation. In the meantime I could write a letter but cautioned me to keep it on Fullerton.
    Love you Sharon. Can you hear me now?

    go fuck yerself TERRI PRADO

  36. Wow…BCC is ridiculous. BCC admin thinks that FFFF is conspiring against LEO. He thinks that the protesters are conspiring to eat his pension for lunch or something. Paranoid!!!

    Posted by BCC:
    “Just dont disclose his identity, he’s in the group and constantly making anti-LEO comments to gain trust… he’s gotten us some good intel…”

  37. Just heard on ktla t.v. news (10:00 p.m.) MORE NEWS ABOUT THE ROTTEN F.P.D. THAT THE CITY IS SETTLING IN THE OFFICER RINCON CASE INVOLVING 12 WOMEN!!! JUST HOW MUCH NEGATIVE NEWS MUST THE F.P.D. HAVE, BEFORE THIS ROTTEN TOWNS BRASS IS CLEANED OUT!!!??? AS for the Kelly Thomas story, not only do the”6 rotten cops need to go, no one hardly mentions the ”watch commander”, so make that …7!! He watched alright, & is just as guilty as the other 6. He watched it ALL, & did he do anything to stop it either?? No! He probably was enjoying it as much as the rest of them!! And with Rincon`s wrongdoings, & now Kelly Thomas, do the higher -ups give a damn ?? They`ve proven over & over again that they DO NOT. Get rid of them ALL, and just maybe , there would be hope for the city of Fullertons reputation again someday. Bruce Whitaker, and Silva, are the only two who have a heart enough to care, and God Bless them for that!!! They are the only two who give the people any hope that there is ANY decent humans left in our city gov. To be absolutely fair, I definitely include any GOOD COPS too, and I`m sure that there are SOME left, but all these bad ones, & their higher- ups, are making it hard to believe in any , anymore!! As for any comments re: Kelly`s parents, & how they did`nt care for him, I`m sick of hearing about that from a few. You were not in their shoes,& don`t know how they loved their son, and as a parent, sometimes all you`re left with is prayer, IF the adult child wants out of their home, & to be on their own. Even IF there WERE some problems, do you know of ANY family without some?? NO!! And the bottom line is , what the hell does that have to do with 6 rotten cops beating a young ill man to death?? AND,… WHAT could those 6 heartless bastards do to Kelly if he HAD BEEN ARMED& shot & killed one ( or two ) of those rotten assholes??? Answer that one!!!! They could`nt have done him ANY WORSE, huh ??? They are cold, rotten excuses for a human -being!! You can`t even say they are ”animals, & insult animals like that!!! Then there`s this jerk ATTY. ” Barnett” soon to come into the picture, saying ”the cops were just doing their jobs,& what they were trained to do”. Well, if that`s what they are trained to do, and they were ”just doing their job” God help us all, to get some things changed!!!! & A.s.a.p.!!! I would like to just ask Barnett, & ”The 7”, and their rotten higher-ups one question. Would their lack of heart& caring be the same as it has ….. if it were THEIR son , grandson, daughter or any loved one?? If all you cold hearted bastards could just lay down in your beds at night, one time, and picture THAT, Ijust wonder if you`d feel ANY different, I doubt it !!! It COULD happen to you too, whether you care to blow- off that possibility or not too, God forbid ANYONES LOVED ONE HAVING TO GO THROUGH WHAT KELLY THOMAS HAD TO SUFFER THROUGH, until he finally went out!! And for what??? NOTHING!!! (sitting on a bench, minding his own business) 6 of them , and they just could not get him handcuffed, & take him away, huh?? No because their intent was something totally different as soon as they rolled- up.( & even beforehand) May THEY ALL get what they deserve, if not here, then in hell ,later on !! This is ALL my opinion, and I`m SURE many, many others too!!!! This city MUST be changed, and cleaned up of ALL of it`s GARBAGE, & everyone knows who all that consists of !!! P. S. And gee, why can`t ”SELLERS” just take his damn blood pressure meds. & stay at work, like millions of us all do?? Oh, I forgot, he is ”Stressed” too. Poor baby!! Tell him to trade places with the Kelly family, then he WILL know just WHAT stress is !!!! I suppose he has a good doc. though, probably a good ol doc. buddy of our useless mayor, who will get him fixed up real good , so he can come back to retire… in good health!!! JUSTICE FOR KELLY, and God give him peace, and bless he AND his family…. REAL GOOD!!!

  38. One of the many disturbing things about this entire Kelly Thomas matter shows itself in the remarks of those who feel the need to verbally degrade the victim of a torture murder. It is no exaggeration to say that is Nazi-like.

    Hitler’s willing chumps felt no qualms about killing “criminal Jews”, “Slavic subhumans” and — just as significant and equally well-doumented — homeless and mentally-ill, who were branded by the Nazi’s as”parasites”.

    All those victims and many, many more, before being murdered were first dehumanized in the incessant propaganda of the Nazi bosses (who themselves were later proved by history to be the real parasites, and parasites on a murderously massive scale, at that). To anyone who knows even a little of recent world history it should be disconcerting, then, to note the victim of an unusually vicious torture-murder being described in degrading terms by those who would seem brazenly to applaud such activities.

    Having differences of opinion as to who is to blame for a criminally lethal action when a number of suspects are involved, is normal
    and is to be expected in a public forum where the matter is being discussed. Degrading a murder victim in the vilest terms imaginable merely speaks volumes regarding the diseased mind of the person spewing.

    It is also troubling to see the father of the victim accused of being “only out for money” when he contemplates civil action. Is there any reasonable person who would not wish to take all available legal steps in seeking justice regarding a tortured and brutally-slain family member? And as far as the victim’s father “being out for money” can anyone truly imagine that he or she would be taken seriously by the Three Blind Mice and their ilk if he or she were suing them for, say, a box of cigars?

    When you have been terribly wronged as a result of actions — or lack thereof — of the powerful people in charge of a city, the only way to grab those at fault by the collar in a free country is to sue them for a lot of money. That is not exactly news, I agree, but a few people seem to have missed that in their
    limited life’s experience. (More likely they pretend to have missed it.)

    As far as the picture accompanying the above article, those who know recent history cannot fail to see the resemblance of the “skull badge” to the despised “totenkopf ” (the skull insignia worn in the caps of top Ratzi Heinreich Himmler and his blood-soaked minions). Nor should the sinister, arrogant quotation from one of most depraved and most cowardly of all the Roman emperors be overlooked.

    It now appears that a soft-spoken, decent father has, in his understandable great pain and his quest for justice, managed to turn over a very large rock. God bless that brave and steadfast man, Ron Thomas! May the guardian angels watch his back for him…

    Here are two quotations. All decent readers can be assured that neither are the foisted-off phrases of slimy, cowardly, sexually-perverted, murderous Roman emperors:

    MURDER WILL OUT.

    THERE IS NONE SO BLIND AS HE WHO WILL NOT SEE.

    1. Honestly, he HAS to sue, and sue big, if he wants to get attention for the causes represented here, including homelessness, mental illness, police brutality, and so on. It’s unfortunate but I believe it to be the truth–it’s the money that will get people’s attention. Furthermore, this needs to receive as much attention as possible, so a lawsuit will hopefully shine the light onto these very dark places.

  39. I have some comments that might be helpful.

    Benjamin Lira IS in fact a detective at the FPD. Let’s just say I’ve confirmed that he is a real officer there, and he does in fact know Ramos personally. And if you do a search on Google, his name is mentioned in some news articles as “Ben Lira.”

    As yes, there are a couple of comments on the “Big City Cops” page which show that they are watching a Kelly Thomas Facebook page…but they’re watching the wrong one! There are many Kelly Thomas memorial pages on Flickr now, and the one they linked to is NOT the one that is most active and getting the most information. And I’m just going to leave it at that. Yeah, they’re trying to get “intel” all right, but they’re looking in the wrong place. Let them keep looking.

    Oh here is something else. As if we hadn’t seen enough evidence for how sick and disturbing that “Big City Cop” page is, here is an excerpt from a comment that the Admin posted. Read THIS:

    “WE, the cops on teh street, the cops who miss birthdays and holidays with their families… WE the cops who bury more people in a 20 year career than you probably know… WE know what evil lurks out there every day Gabrielle…and we have to blend in with it or we’ll end up crazy or dead… and we do it for love of the job…because the pay and benefits sure dont do it…

    Keep this in mind… even a dog, the most loyal of creatures, eventually gets tired of getting kicked around by the master he protects…and finds another master more appreciative…”

    Read that last line again. If the Admin of that page is really a cop, than his comments sound pretty darn treasonous to me.

  40. If I was a facebooker I would trashing their page.
    But facebook is = to shit.
    so any facebooker out their trash that shit whole page.
    Do it for kelly

  41. STAND UP :
    If I was a facebooker I would trashing their page.
    But facebook is = to shit.
    so any facebooker out their trash that shit whole page.
    Do it for kelly

    It’s already trash.

  42. STAND UP :
    If I was a facebooker I would trashing their page.
    But facebook is = to shit.
    so any facebooker out their trash that shit whole page.
    Do it for kelly

    If you want it so bad, do it yourself. Do it for Kelly? That’s stupid.

  43. #125 by Reality Is on September 19, 2011
    I have said that from day 1. All the officers will not be charged. You will see portions of the tape once the DA makes his announcement. I think this week

    Hey reality is, I’m still waiting to see portions of the tape…what happened. We only got to see Tony wearing those rubber gloves trying to appease the public outrage.

  44. hey reality is,
    will you be able to make it to the protest this saterday? I would very much like to talk to you in person.

  45. STAND UP :
    If I was a facebooker I would trashing their page.
    But facebook is = to shit.
    so any facebooker out their trash that shit whole page.
    Do it for kelly

    What an idiot. ^

  46. Actually, I don’t think we want that Facebook page taken down. It’s already come in very handy. Because of that page, we know the name of the cop (a detective) who started the donation to get Ramos bailed out. Benjamin Lira.

    We are also getting names of other corrupt cops posting their true intentions. And if we let them keep talking, they might slip up and write about things they’ve done. Sure, the admin of BCC started a new group that’s private, and they supposedly aren’t discussing anything “tactical” (his word) on the BCC page anymore. But nothing on the internet stays hidden forever.

    I found the Big City Cops Facebook page. 😉 And I’ll find their other one.

    Since they’re “gathering intel” about us – people who post here and on Kelly Thomas Facebook pages, let’s do the same thing to them. Let them keep their page. And we’ll watch it.

    Oh, and if anyone from Big City Cops is reading this by chance…I will find your other page. I have my methods.

    1. The BCC site does reinforce what we already knew and in fact confirms what we have suspected. It helps the cause, really, because it shows the public what Kelly Thomas and others were/are up against.

  47. Well, those people sure are mad that two of their fellow Tax Feeders are faced with some serious charges. If they had their way, no cop would ever even be investigated for any alleged wrong doing.
    It’s like they think they really are above the law and can do no wrong.

  48. Why doesn’t everyone join me in posting support for Kelly Thomas’ memory and his family on that site. If they are the decent, hardworking cops they claim to be we can have intelligent debate and learn to see things from each other’s point of view. If they are testosterone filled hate-mongers it will get them riled up, and eventually they’ll get themselves banned from facebook. One of them was already complaining because facebook banned him for preaching hatred toward Muslims. Hopefully he doesn’t represent the view of all those on there.

  49. merijoe#1 :
    I wonder if he uses that motto with his wife and kids

    “…police officers themselves have a higher rate of harming their own family members. Domestic violence is 2 to 4 times more common in police families than in the general population. In two separate studies, 40% of police officers self-report that they have used violence against their domestic partners within the last year. In the general population it’s estimated that domestic violence occurs in about 10% of families.”

  50. Brandon :
    Why doesn’t everyone join me in posting support for Kelly Thomas’ memory and his family on that site. If they are the decent, hardworking cops they claim to be we can have intelligent debate and learn to see things from each other’s point of view. If they are testosterone filled hate-mongers it will get them riled up, and eventually they’ll get themselves banned from facebook. One of them was already complaining because facebook banned him for preaching hatred toward Muslims. Hopefully he doesn’t represent the view of all those on there.

    Brandon,
    I personally will NOT post any comments on that page. For one thing, I have already heard that the admin deletes any dissenting comments, which probably means any comments that are not gushing praise for cops. He has already made his views very clear, that he thinks Ron Thomas is “in it for the money.” So if try to post any comments about the Thomas family, no matter how kindly written, they probably will get deleted.

    Another reason I would NOT post any comments there is because several people on that page (presumably cops) have posted comments about how they are “gathering intel” about protesters and people who post comments against cops on Facebook pages. Remember that Facebook shows your REAL name in your profile and when you post comments. The cops in that group CLAIM that they are “gathering intel” and taking screen shots because of threats against officers. But we all know the real reason. It’s the same reason why cops in Fullerton were writing down license plate numbers at the protests. For future harassment and intimidation.

    There ARE Fullerton cops on that “Big City Cops” page. Or at least the admin knows Fullerton cops. We know this because that letter from Benjamin Lira was posted on the page.

    So be careful.

    I think it’s much more productive to just quietly observe them. Watch that Facebook page and see what they’re up to.

    By the way, if I do find their other page, the one they just started and don’t want us to see…I’ll post a link to it.

  51. Hm? :
    Here is what justice looks like,
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/06/us/06danziger.html?pagewanted=all

    Thank you both Stud Lee and Hm? (that is not normal me)

    I had busted my ass on hard labor all day paying their paychecks and being as nice as I could to all other humans fertilizing my world and came home to see this BCC organization talking shit to me *the person who pays them to protect me and my family and I lost it..

    The Vino I drank didn’t let me calm down.. I broke down in tears of anger that Humanity allowed something like this to grow right under our noses..

    A brotherhood of Killer cops and Abusive cops who are OVERPAID and now NOW.. they tell us
    “we don’t give a fuck if you don’t like us killing your citizens.. FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!

    As I say that this early morning I see the truth.. they are mentally and emotionally weak and STILL live out bully dreams from their prepubescent years..

    When Americans are threatened like this… by the people we give brand new fancy cars to and all the latest and greatest equipment and technology and they turn on us and tell us to FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!
    FEAR US! FEAR US! FEAR US!

    You feel as if there is NO JUSTICE!

    They are THEY are the least respectful and least grateful for their status/rank in our lives..

    Where is the FBI.. Do they have a page like this too?

    Did we also let them become like these monsters?

    What really set me off was that Damon Moysard or w/e the name is and him saying he was gonna fly some black flag and slit some throats..
    http://i55.tinypic.com/2znxzew.jpg

    I was telling a few women last night about Rincon and the other cop who stalked a stripper and even turned off his GPS in his car so his CO wouldn’t know where he was.. then he forced her to stay there while he masturbated and shot sperm all over her face and shirt and such.. JURY LET HIM GO FREEEEEE… Well.. could you believe the HORROR in the younger ladies eyes as I was telling this story.. I could sense her being brave but scared to death… SCARED TO DEATH .. that a cop would do something like that AND NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE

    people you and I pay to protect
    Our Children
    Mothers
    Fathers
    Grandmothers and Grandfathers et al.

    /tear

    1. These guys slither in after doing a stint in the militaty. They come in under our noses. one day they are in high school, thay disappear for a while deprived of civilian contact, then come home, built, trained to fight, and still stupid.

      They must be regects from poor, uneducated families, and the only place for them is to join the military.

      I think the military is being way to generous letting these scumbags inlist.

  52. Big City Cops
    One of our members has started a group to support our LEOs at all anti-FPD demos… He’s in Granada Hills CA… any of you in the area wishing to meet up with him or donate time to make signs and help with the rental of the vans to transport to the location, PM me…

    His group now consists of about 30 people..not all are participants in the demonstrations, but are all still welcome to meet for planning of events and fundraising… He put together a nice BBQ last Saturday after the event…

    Just dont disclose his identity, he’s in the group and constantly making anti-LEO comments to gain trust… he’s gotten us some good intel…

    1. O.k. now this getting serious, as if it weren’t already! 30 people to infiltrate to rally on Saturday. They are really scared.

  53. I hope the FPD don’t bribe a corrupt drunk judge to ban the recall and further public gatherings in Fullerton other than FPD sponsored events.

  54. Sapienti sat is what we the people use to counter oderint dum metuant. Current Fullerton city council member, Pat McKInley, probably fostered the corrupt spirit of Fullerton PD. Pat McKinley not only is our current civic leader, he is the ex-police chief of Fullerton and an ex-board member of Rusty Kennedy’s Orange County Human Relations Commission board. Now, the hoi polloi(sorry for mixing Latin and Greek) must remember that it was this week that Rusty Kennedy asked Fullerton’s city council members for permission to be a member of fullerton’s task force on treatment of the homeless in fullerton. The father of murdered, homeless man, Kelly Thomas, is being strongly recruited to this task force. Now, we the people must remember Rusty’s salary is dependent on OC cities funding his commission. It is probable that Rusty’s role is running intereference between the righteous indignation of the people over police brutality and the civic leaders that tacitly condone this form of abuse. In essence, Rusty’s role is to protect his ex-colleague, Pat McKinley. Recruiting the father of Kelly thomas, Ron Thomas, allows Rusty to wrap his influence around Ron Thomas’ mind with the desired effect to neutralize Ron thomas righteous anger over his son’s murder. We the people must wise up to Fullerton’s civic leaders latest ploy, the task force on the homeless headed by Rusty Kennedy

    1. I don’t think it is that conspiratorial. Rusty has spent a lifetime promoting his ideas into the mainstream. At this point in life all of us who were a bit radical when young have a vested interest in the status quo if we have had any success at all.

      Yes, in the end the old guys will reach a consensus and life will go on. In the meantime some of the old farts will be shown the door, younger people will take their place, and hopefully the police culture will be somewhat reformed.

      1. Beating a homeless, disabled man to death is a vested interest in the status quo? No wonder another person told you to F*** off.

      2. so the reference to bipolar skank really got under the Kennedy’s skin, I’m glad because as big nat use to say from her living room couch at 1031 n richman avenue, fullerton ca”the truth will set you free” of course she never said freed from what.

  55. “MeYou” good post, I can identify with your feelings of frustration and anger and even of feeling betrayed. I contribute comments to this board, and have put my weight behind the protests and food drive, but I needed to “step away” for a moment, as I found myself carrying my anger and revulsion of the fpd into my personnal life and at times became short with the people I love. And now this! This ‘bcc” website, my revulsion has just encompassed po’s in general. Inadequate adolecents grew up to be inadequate adults. A person that is truely deserving of respect does not have to threaten others to get it. I just don’t even have words, except to say, that the “bcc” website and the propoganda they spew is thier own worst enemy, as it renews the resolve of the people to stand up, not only for Kelly Thomas and his family, but for humanity as well.

  56. “Stop resisting, stop resisting!,”….”We put our life on the line,”…..”He was reaching for a gun in his waistband,”….”The video doesn’t show everything,”….”Next time you need a cop, call a fireman,”….Just thought if you saw some of these mantras in writing, you would understand why I just roll my eyes and shake my head. Keep giving ’em hell! “Chris”, when this is over, hope to buy you a beer! “Xer” I always looked forward to reading your posts, hope all is well with you!

  57. I just spent some time on BCC site. It truly is one of the scariest things I’ve seen in a long time.

    They are monitoring FFFF like crazy, because they are afraid. Well, I’m afraid now too. The one comment that frightened me the most was in response to cop haters and anyone who disses them. I don’t have it verbatim, but in essence it was a retaliative strike by LEO in which they notify the crooks beforehand. Then the public will understand how much they NEED law enforcement.

    Well, yeah if they instigate it.

    This has permanently unsettled me.

  58. Two Fullerton officers to be put on leave without pay
    Officer Manuel Ramos and Cpl. Jay Cicinelli are charged in the death of Kelly Thomas, a homeless man. They are on paid leave now, but their status will change Oct. 8.

    “The intent to change their pay status was made after consulting with our city attorneys regarding law that is relevant to this area,” acting Police Chief Kevin Hamilton said in a statement.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0930-kelly-thomas-20110930,0,5265817.story

    Notice that they had to consult with city attorneys first. They all over at HQ would have been fine paying them in jail. Poor families. Nonetheless, it’s only right. I would love to read their MOU, Memorandum of Understanding book.

  59. I just realized (duh!) that they will win if I am afraid. Fear is exactly the response they want.

    That doesn’t mean those guys aren’t scary.

  60. wow it is a cult and I would not be surprised if they practice some kind of weegee board asshole may sonic black majik shit.

    and for this to keep going on is horrible and ther
    e is no way it we the people can trust any government agency all the way up to the whitehouse the white h
    ouse was built on slavery and the stealing of the land from people who were already here so this whole country is illigitimate this whole fabrication of america the free america the land for you and me. is and haa always been a lie america is an atrocity. from the dirty cops to the dirty feds to the dirty politicians to the evil fucking people that live in mansions and
    white houses andlive occult weegee board lives these motherfuckersthey -odon’t even know the shitstorm you’re gonna be in for annual be running across the plan is scared of your own shadow

  61. the only civil answer that I can come up with right now is some kind of citizens force citizens brigade a group of citizens that arrestes fuckin cops. we have the duty and right to have a functioning militia. and I think we need to orginize. now

    1. “and I do hate them. but I do not fear them.”

      I’m working on the fear part. It comes from being a woman and having scary, negative run-ins with LE.

  62. Every time I drop by FFFF I am stunned. Over and over and over FFFF has shown clearly that the FPD and maybe most law enforcement are nothing but BADGE-WEARING THUGS!

    My parents and teachers lied; there really are no GOOD cops in Fullerton.

  63. Maybe someone can answer this for me. I’m used to posts on this blog having a small bit of truth, someone saying it like it’s all truth, and then everyone running with it to make it seem bigger than it actually is.

    Honest question though because I don’t know the answer. I see that everyone is very upset about this BCC page. I can see why.

    My question is the way Tony and Chris have setup the letter from Lira asking for assistance, they have made it look like the BCC logo is on letterhead with the contents from Lira. Is this true? Was this letter requesting donations on letterhead of BCC or was this letter just copied off the web page of BCC and the logo and BCC had nothing to do with the letter by Lira?

    I see where the BCC guy says a fellow LE is requesting assistance from fellow LE for the cause stated. I’m just trying to figure out if Lira isn’t even associated with BCC in anyway at all, but it’s being made to appear that way to make this into a big issue.

    I know that Lira’s letter made it to all the POA’s in California also and from what I hear it didn’t have any mention of BCC on it.

    That’s all. See ya on the backside.

  64. Anonymous :
    Their deputies stripped a central american inmate naked, beat him then threw him in a cell where he was raped and beaten by other inmates.
    There are some SICK bastards working in law enforcement.

    IS THIS REAL?

    If they really did this.. and I was one of their children I would put a revolver to their head in their sleep if I heard they did that to an inmate. I would get off free too.

    1. Oh ok. That’s normal. Support and assistance has happened in every case like this. Bart cop’s coworkers and family did the same thing. Webb’s too. Not sure why that would surprise anyone.

      1. No, it’s NOT normal. When a computer programmer get accused of killing somebody, all computer programmers don’t come forward to offer bailout assistance to “one of their own.” A chemist who is held in prison awaiting prosecution won’t have fellow chemists nationwide who don’t even know him posting on Facebook asking all fellow chemists to donate to the bail fund as a show of chemist “solidarity.”

        You also won’t find societies of chemists and computer scientists and Burger King employees etc… with mottos wanting people to fear them taken from psychopathic incestuous murderous Roman emperors. And Facebook pages of those societies wouldn’t have “likes” from literally thousands of similar but actually official organizations across the nation and even world.

        Can you imagine? Big City Burger King Employees (the Facebook page). Maybe the logo would be a skull-n-crossbones superimposed over a Whopper Value Meal with some Latin logo that advises customers to fear them.

        1. In immigrant communities you have social networks though that bail out their own. You have churches, mosques, and college fraternities bailing out white collar alleged criminals all the time. IMHO this isn’t much different. The shame is on the POAs that actually support this effort – Fullerton POA has wisely backed away from this and the others should as well. On the other hand not to take away from the death of Kelly Thomas, but there is a loss of income and increased danger for the Manuel Ramos family – they weren’t the ones that killed Kelly Thomas. No different than the car washes that you see to support the kids when their dad went to jail.

  65. Reality Is :
    Maybe someone can answer this for me. I’m used to posts on this blog having a small bit of truth, someone saying it like it’s all truth, and then everyone running with it to make it seem bigger than it actually is.
    Honest question though because I don’t know the answer. I see that everyone is very upset about this BCC page. I can see why.
    My question is the way Tony and Chris have setup the letter from Lira asking for assistance, they have made it look like the BCC logo is on letterhead with the contents from Lira. Is this true? Was this letter requesting donations on letterhead of BCC or was this letter just copied off the web page of BCC and the logo and BCC had nothing to do with the letter by Lira?
    I see where the BCC guy says a fellow LE is requesting assistance from fellow LE for the cause stated. I’m just trying to figure out if Lira isn’t even associated with BCC in anyway at all, but it’s being made to appear that way to make this into a big issue.
    I know that Lira’s letter made it to all the POA’s in California also and from what I hear it didn’t have any mention of BCC on it.
    That’s all. See ya on the backside.

    I really hope this site gets passwords soon.. Your posts *can 🙂 be high quality and helpful.

    I think citizens need to call Lira personally and ask him what his association is with BCC ..

    cool thing about BCC being public.. FEDS can take down all their IP addresses and names and investigate them too.

    1. I bet he has no association and I bet no Fullerton cops do either. The letter for assistance went out California wide. I’ve never heard of BCC in my life. Probably just a cop that made a page where people can hit “like” and watch the page. No clue what it is. Appears on face value to be a bunch of cops and retired cops who don’t like activists, anti police or anti government. Who knows. I think the association with Lira and Fullerton has been linked and overblown on purpose.

  66. Big City Cops

    “One of our members has started a group to support our LEOs at all anti-FPD demos… He’s in Granada Hills CA… any of you in the area wishing to meet up with him or donate time to make signs and help with the rental of the vans to transport to the location, PM me…

    His group now consists of about 30 people..not all are participants in the demonstrations, but are all still welcome to meet for planning of events and fundraising… He put together a nice BBQ last Saturday after the event…

    Just dont disclose his identity, he’s in the group and constantly making anti-LEO comments to gain trust… he’s gotten us some good intel…”

    Now I’m sick. Maybe Law & Order is not so far off..taken from the headlines, you know.

  67. So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
    If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
    If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.

    The Art of War

  68. LA County Sheriff’s Department Lacks Funding to Analyze Rape Kits
    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/LA-County-Sheriff-Lacks-Funding-to-Analyze-Rape-Kits.html

    How much do these goons earn and do they do shit like Goodyear Blimp in Fullerton.. and work politics and police spokeshole at the same time..

    not enough money to protect women but plenty of time to threaten retribution if their pensions and raises aren’t taken care of..

    pukes.. “Thous shalt trust no man”

  69. My Username Rocks :The argument will likely be made by BCC that their slogan refers to criminals hating/fearing them, and not the general population.

    You shouldn’t have given them this out. I don’t think they are witty enough to have come up with that meaning there selves.

  70. THE BEAUTY OF FACEBOOK

    REAL NAMES

    They are done. .DONE

    idiots..

    Nice to see that facebook names who “Liked” anything written by those scums..

  71. HOw about we all go to the Big City Cops facebook page and chime in once in a while, or even bombard them with our logic and let them know what ‘real power’ is all about?

  72. Hello from the right coast again. I’m glad to hear that the 2 charged with crimes won’t be enjoying a salary after next week.

    We have some police stupidity of our own this week, and it’s just as sick. The reason why I want to share this like with you, is listen to what that commentator has to say at the end, about how officers know exactly how much illegal activity their departments tolerate, and ride that line all the time. Hopefully our continued use of cameras will continue to flush these criminals out.

    http://www.videomaker.com/community/videonews/2011/08/11175-first-amendment-rights-new-ruling-on-recording-police/?utm_source=enews&utm_medium=email&utm_content=blogf_enews_2011_9_1&utm_campaign=traffic

    Peace

  73. Yea, they are land pirates, as their logo testifies. stealing and murdering all along the country. Hopefully there time is up and we can get back to a Christian country of love and peace.

      1. Whatever floats your boat! Live and Let Live! I just brought up Christianity because it’s my reference point and the first thing I think of concerning how to live a peaceful and loving life.

  74. Look at this posting by Big City Cops about the FULLERTON PROTESTERS you can view it right now:

    BRYAN STOW: Our Brother continues to fight for his recovery after the savage and brutal beating at the hands of two cowards, for simply being a fan of a baseball team not of their liking…

    His warrior spirit continues to recover and soon he’ll be back with us whole…

    I wonder where all teh Fullerton protesters were for this young man’s savage beating… oh, that’s right…Stow is a First Responder… and he wasnt engaged by the police… I guess they have their “standards”…

    Continue the fight Brother…

    1. Brian Stowes attackers are behind bars and a manhunt was mounted to find them. Kelly Thomas’s killers were known and covered up for by corrupt cops. Kellys killers are walking around free (for now)……… That’s where we are on that.

  75. Friendly Neighbor:

    I realized that right as I hit send but it was too late. Is there a way to delete our comments?

  76. I dont care one whip whether or not their “motto” about hating/fearing is for “criminals” -first of all, who do they consider “criminals” they thought Kelly Thomas was a criminal

    I dont believe for one minute thats what they had in mind when they posted that stupid slogan, that was meant for “everyone” because in their eyes everyone who isnt in the copper circle is a criminal

    and thats because they were raised in a goat fart

  77. After reading some of the posts on Big City Cops, i was very concerned. MANY of the posts STILL state that Kelly Thomas attacked the police officers. And Kelly Thomas injured some of the police officers. That BS cover up campaign by Goodrich is still sticking with people! A lot of people still do not know the truth.

  78. I was just on the OC Weekly blog site and in the article about Ramos getting bailed out BCC was mentioned, as was a print screen of their icon/slogan.

  79. FPOA President Barry Coffman claims the union had nothing to do with the bail, coordinating the donations, etc.

    Ummm yeah ok.

  80. Haha I just looked at the BCC page. The admin must be in a donut induced coma. He hasn’t deleted any new comments.

  81. Could it really be any more obvious that we live in a police state?

    Ask any police chief whether his men are held to a higher standard. His head would shake off his shoulders in the affirmative.

    Then look at the way the system really operates.

    America has strayed way off course.

    Cops have turned into the very ones they are supposed to protect us from.

  82. The Unions are the problem. Officers can disregard policy and regulations knowing that the Unions will protect them from being terminated.
    The Unions are the downfall of America.

    The Big City Cops Facebook page calls FFFF a communist blog. Whats more communist than Unions allowing unfit people to keep their jobs regardless of their performance?

    1. Wrong. Wrong. Making things up again?

      Unions have no impact on policy or law violations.

      Yes this page and group has been called many things by that side and even citizens. The harshest words are how the politics of a group are using Kelly for their agenda. Nasty words for them.

      Both sides use nasty terms for each other. That’s normal when people have such strong opinions for a cause.

    2. I assure you I am no communist……. In a communist society the only ones with guns are the guvment….. Cops would love that in Amerika. I am against corrupt out of control police officers and their corrupt agency’s.

      1. I believe you. Many people aren’t what you and others say they are either. Free speech leads to false statements all the way around.

        1. “Free speech leads to false statements all the way around.”

          Wrong.

          Free speech leads to free interaction with others, and the possibility of acquiring useful information, which can then be disseminated. The interpretation of that information is up to the reader. Without our freedom of speech, we will be fed what those in power want use know, and no more. That breeds corruption at every level.

          Oppression leads to closed governments, i.e oppressive regimes, which leads to: false statements; rumors; secrets; fear; bigotry; tyranny; dictatorships; communism; religious persecution; racism, and worst of all violence against it’s own people to control them.

  83. This morning I posted three (3) messages on that BCC facebook page and now they are nowhere to be found.
    That is because I spoke the truth about their CORRUPTION.
    THEY STILL CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!

    1. It’s a page made by someone right? They clearly don’t want the other side there and that’s their choice. I think both sides are good. Valuable. I don’t think that BCC has anything to do with So Cal.

  84. Jane H :
    I just realized (duh!) that they will win if I am afraid. Fear is exactly the response they want.
    That doesn’t mean those guys aren’t scary.

    Nah, just sad, pathetic and ignorant.

  85. Chris,

    Thanks for the information/advice. You are correct. The BCC page does delete any comments they do not like. I posted this last night:

    Never seen so much hatred in my life. I guess calling people you disagree with “retards” and “morons” is easier than engaging in intelligent debate. Sounds like the same type of rage that was in Ramos and Cicinelli as they viciously beat Kelly Thomas to death for not acquiescing well enough to their demands. Long after they are in prison, the changes this will bring about to law and order will stand. Eventually cops will learn they can’t do whatever they want and get away with it. Thanks to Lira for showing that it’s not just a few rogue cops who support the ability of officers to kill indiscreetly and get away with it. Any of those bashing Ron Thomas asking what kind of parents teach their kids to beat, stomp, and taser an unarmed man with mental illness to death while he cries out for his dad? Anyone know why the D.A. report says all six officers were involved in the restraining of Thomas if they got there after the fatal beating was over? I’m no cop, but would think it was unnecessary to restrain an unconscious man lying in a pool of his own blood. Maybe it’s some sort of esoteric cop procedure. Nobody in their right mind thinks Thomas’ misdemeanor history made him a dangerous criminal unworthy of life. Anyone who knows anything about the law and/or mental illness knows you can not force an adult to take their medication or stay off the streets. Keep deflecting the facts from the real crime here and spread some more hate. In the end they’ll still be two murderers in prison, four without badges, a disgraced chief, no more Mc-Dick-Head hiring psychologically disturbed cops who were injured in the line of duty, and millions of hardworking taxpayer’ dollars going to the Thomas family, Vam, and Quiñonez. Maybe the supporters should start donating to the “friends of irresponsible policing” fund now. Keep the peace Justice for Kelly seekers. Remember hatred begets hatred. “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

    And the admin deleted it this morning. So much for freedom of speech. While I agree with you on being careful what you post on a hostile facebook page that cops are on, I feel we can not let these people intimidate us. They are just a group of scared, hate-mongers who do not want to hear any dissenting opinions. Thank goodness for sites like this that allow ANYONE to post.

      1. I’m not saying that these organizations have anything to do with BCC, but apparently these people “like” BCC on Facebook:

        LAPD Hollenbeck PAL
        Orange County Police Canine Association
        Los Angeles Police K9 Fund
        LAPD Bomb Dogs
        LAPD Women’s Running Team
        Arcadia Police Department (CA)
        LAPD Central Division
        San Diego Community College District Police Department
        San Diego Police Department Cadet Program
        etc…

        Gosh I ran out of time. There are dozens if not hundred of others. I wonder if they would still “like” BCC if they knew what it was about.

    1. Agreed Brandon.
      I posted three messages this morning and went to look for rebuttals, and they were nowhere to be found.

  86. Chiken :
    I am so mad. and disgusted.
    and I do hate them. but I do not fear them.
    they are bitches.

    Why hate them? Why hate anyone? They are clearly delusional and hating them only gives them power. I see them as weak minded, ignorant and pathetic. It’s truly sad. Their hate and anger blinds them. Don’t let it blind you.

    1. Very true. And they clearly talk about retirees and people no longer in LE so maybe they are part of the old school LAPD rampart or 70’s days. Who knows.

      1. You are probably right. Starting to sound more like a bunch of “used-to-be’s” longing for the long lost adrenalin rush.

  87. The postings that truly disturbed me were those of that Damon Moysar guy.

    I sincerely hope he’s not active LE.

    1. Damon Moysar = Damon Moysard; FB profile shows location as Idaho. Quick look-see on Switchboard finds a Damond Moysard in Idaho.

      1. Idaho is where current and retired LE build little enclaves, and then they hide out, fully armed.

        I will say one thing. It’s is majestic up in Idaho. Too bad it’s marred by the confederate flag flying everywhere.

  88. Badge-Wearing Thugs :
    Every time I drop by FFFF I am stunned. Over and over and over FFFF has shown clearly that the FPD and maybe most law enforcement are nothing but BADGE-WEARING THUGS!
    My parents and teachers lied; there really are no GOOD cops in Fullerton.

    It amazes me (well saddens really) that people are so surprised that LE is so corrupt. Military and LE are simply hired thugs for the state.

  89. What I want to know is

    a) Is the Samuel Zavala on BCC the same as the disgraced ex LBPD

    b) If so why is he apparently a member in good standing.

  90. Anonymous: Glad to see others are trying to break up their little cop loving/Kelly Thomas bashing club over there and show them we are not afraid of them. Man, how classless do you have to be to support cops videotaped and witnessed murdering an unarmed man who had committed no crime, then have the nerve to tarnish his memory?

    My Username Rocks: I replied to one of his hateful comments. Very disturbing individual. I wish the scared little coppers would stop hiding behind their badges and banning comments they don’t like. I guess they are just a group of delusional, cops and cop apologists who want to spread their hate. Oh and hypocrites as well. They claim to be for good old “American values” but deny citizens freedom of speech.

  91. Well in reality if FB is a privately owned sit then I don’t believe one has a “right” to free speech on it.

    However their unwillingness to allow dissenting opinions is quite telling about what type of LEOs they must be in real life.

  92. You may be right, but they sure spout off a lot about 1st Amendment rights for a group that wants to censor their page.
    Agreed. Very telling of their character.

  93. Just a Thought:

    Think about this. Chief Sellers saw the infamous video shot from the city cam; the same one DA Rackaucus saw. Not only did he view it but all 6 officers were allowed to view it to ‘cook’ their reports of the event and the new interem chief, Captain Hamilton admitted seeing this too. Remember the informant on KFI who disclosed the events that took place that night? He saw it too. I have always wondered if he was one of the six officers present that night of the beating. Either way, he is the only GOOD individual at FPD, and his bosses wan’t to hang him. My point is, Mr. Wonderful Chief Sellers, nor Captain Hamilton did a damn thing to the officers after viewing that obvious DEATH BEATING.

  94. I tried leaving some constructive criticism on the BCC page, but it was immediately removed and replaced with a personal attack against me. I was also blocked from responding so that I couldn’t defend myself. Cowards.

    At least the admins at this site have thick enough skin to engage the trolls in a little debate. We can take it and give it right back. Words never hurt anyone.

    The clowns at BCC really represent the problem with bad law enforcement. Joe put it best — they seem to be “afflicted with a twisted narcissism co-joined with a deep paranoia and a pathetic sense of entitlement”. Hit the nail on the head, Joe.

  95. Anonymous :
    THE BEAUTY OF FACEBOOK
    REAL NAMES
    They are done. .DONE
    idiots..
    Nice to see that facebook names who “Liked” anything written by those scums..

    Lol. So peeps can now get razzed by the po-po for “liking” statements on a FB page? That’s hilarious and I somehow think will only cause a bigger backlash. Also lmao @ at them stalking peoples pages, as if they were criminals for it. These coppers must be bored as hell. Not enough crime for them to fight? Maybe they need a new career?

  96. REALITY IS,

    Will you try to come over and say hi tomorrow? I will be wearing the Marine Corp hat and t-shirt on the City Lawn along with FEDUP.

  97. Reality is claims “…Jail deputies are known to be pretty crazy. Dealing with criminals all day everyday rots the brain.”

    Another of those feeble excuses unthinking minds regularly offer while trying justify lack of professonalism or downright criminality in law enforcement personnel.

    No one is going to excuse a kindergarten teacher who acts like a five-year old, crying and screaming and rolling around the floor when she doesn’t get her way. No one is going to say, “Don’t blame her, she’s
    around kindergartners all day. You simply have to look the other way when she acts like some of her students.”

    Nor is anyone going to excuse the behavior of a psychiatrist employed by a psychiatric hospital if the doctor habitually dons a rubber chicken head and runs up and down the halls flapping his arms while loudly clucking. Who is dullard enough to suggest that sort of thing is understandable because of the patients the doctor regularly encounters?

    It stands to reason that persons of good character employed in law enforcement can work around thieves, perverts and torture-murderers without morphing into such criminals themselves. In fact, to those of sound character, encountering law breakers on a daily basis is going to make him or her thankful for the positive qualities of mind they possess, qualities which keep them free, respected members of society. To the only people who deserve to be employed in such important work, their good human attributes will be reinforced and made even stronger by what they experience.

    People don’t develop criminal characteristics from regular professional encounters with criminals. There is no excuse whatsoever for criminality in those who are supposed to be protecting society. When you have a law enforcement officer who is accused on good reason of criminal behavior after years on a police force, you don’t have a once good person whose character has grown rotten and whose moral fiber has been eaten away or decayed from years of professional encounters with criminals.

    Instead, you have a CRIMINAL who never should have been hired in the first place, a person whose criminal proclivities first slipped by the detection of incompetent personnel screeners, and then woefully escaped notice of superiors long asleep at wheel.

    It is time people stop making feeble, time-worn excuses for the occasional shabby criminal failures who are paid to serve the public. Taxpayers and voters need kick out deadwood superiors and supervisors who have failed in screening out criminals, or at least weeding them out when the criminals manage to worm their way in in the first place.

    It is high-time to insist of the installation of public officials who will demand sound moral character and professionalism from everyone on the public payroll, starting with those whose job is (supposedly) protecting the public.

    Lame excuses for criminal behavior certainly will never get the job done.

    1. I base what I say on personal experience and personal observations. So mind you, it was a thinking mind and a legitimate thought out excuse. In fact, I did my master’s thesis on this very topic.

      I was fortunate enough to enter law enforcement after graduating from college. I was on the older side in the academy, 22 years of age. A majority of the people were 18-21, and the ones my age were just out of the military.

      I had always heard that deputies would do about 2 years in the jails. I didn’t know much about the jails. I graduated and went right to the King riots. An eye opener to say the least. Right to the riots with seasoned deputies and the national guard.

      Then the jails. Wow. What an experience. The timeline for jail duty was now going to be 6-8 years. 6-8 years of 50-70 hour weeks dealing with nothing but locked up criminals.

      Every officer should do time in the jails. It’s a complete eye opener and really teaches you alot about how criminals operate. Yes, some good people also, but majority are there waiting for trial knowing they are going to be in jail for awhile.

      I learned and observed that more than 2 years in the jails is too much. The human mind molds itself to prepare the body for 50-70 or more hours of dealing with mainly the criminal element the entire time. Exposing the mind and body to this for 8 years is too much. I saw many good, quiet, sensitive people become rigid, molded, patterned, mean spirited people. They still had good hearts but having dealt with criminals, liars, thiefs, and everything else for that many hours of your life, it changes people.

      The main problem I see is when these deputies get to the streets, their minds are prepared for the same battle and the same element. They find it hard to transition back and forth between criminals and good members of society. They become short, to the point, and the sense of community and good people is minimized.

      I know some good deputies and some outstanding crime fighters. They are great for the hardcore gang areas, but when it comes to the better areas with a solid mix of good and bad people, they don’t have that easy ability to change their thought process.

      So yes I was thinking and it wasn’t an excuse. I’ve seen it for over 20 years up close and personal.

      1. That is a great perspective on the life of a new sheriff deputy, RI…
        Were you saying they now have to do their first 8 years in the county jails as oppossed to 2? I think that is simply wrong for the reasons you mentioned above.
        When I did a tour of Twin Towers or L.A. County jail I did witness a group of young white-boy deputies man-handling a very uptight latino man with the black ‘spit screen’ over his head. Apparently he was a spitter, but I was a bit appalled at the way the deputies were laughing as they were squeezing his neck and slamming their knees into his body, saying (you guessed it) ‘stop resisting’. All this as he was being held by four deps.
        And just this week, Sheriff Liar Baca stated he takes inmate abuse cases seriously. HA!

        1. Lots of studies in the field of Social Psychology would apply here. This case will be in textbooks eventually. I hope that something useful will come of it all.

  98. I wonder what the FBI would think of cops stalking facebook for those that don’t say things they like and what they are proposing to do to those people. A little Jim Crow South situation going on with LE these days and a federal arm should be brought in. Not hysteria. I’m serious.

  99. Many years ago, when I worked the jails, the best inmates out of all, were the hardened Mexican gangbangers. I treated them with respect, and in response, I got respect back in truckloads. I had a working crew back then, and they put out double what anyone else could do. They loved working for me because I not only got them coffee and doughnuts in the morning, but I talked to them as adults. I was much older than the regular deputy then, and I used my communication skills, and common decency, to gain their respect and compliance. I am sure that if I were to meet them in a dark alley on the streets, they would shoot me dead. So is the way of life.
    Nowadays, I believe that problems are more common in the young, just sworn LEO’s. It is as if they have something to prove. That attitude can get one into a load of trouble. This is one reason why I believe any LEO should be at least 27 years old before being sworn. I believe it gives them a bit of time to experience life, and to gain communication skills that will help them in their endeavors.
    Some LEO’s will scorn me for saying so, but so be it. Attitude is also a very big factor in bringing out the negative aspects of citizen contacts. I know it goes both ways, so I am not going to paint all citizens as Angels.
    I am seeing double, and need to rest my eyes now, so I will end here. See you all at the protest tomorrow.

    1. Agree. Some good hardcore inmates. They had their needs and wants, but that was the first place I learned respect gets respect. Disrespect to the hardcore third strikers could get you killed.

    2. 9c1copcar, my husband is a reformed (chicano) gangbanger and would agree wholeheartedly with everything you just said. On the same note, for years I have discredited everything he has told me about law enforcement. I honestly just couldn’t accept his stories of organized beatings, planting of evidence, etc as truth because it flew in the face of everything my public schools and parents told me.

      Now I just feel like an idiot.

      He has stories for days, though, about Fullerton cops. He says that DiCaprio fellow and another Officer Cross used to meet gangbangers in the parks for Fight Club-esque brawls. He always told me the police were just a glorified gang and now I finally get it.

  100. I just read this on the BCC site:

    TITLE 11.5. CRIMINAL THREATS

    422. Any person who willfully threatens to commit a crime which will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, with the specific intent that the statement, made verbally, in writing, or by means of an electronic communication device, is to be taken as a threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out, which, on its face and under the circumstances in which it is made, is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to convey to the person threatened, a gravity of purpose and an immediate prospect of execution of the threat, and thereby causes that person reasonably to be in sustained fear for his or her own safety or for his or her immediate family’s safety, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison.

    this was in regards to all the alleged comments threating LEO on there site. Well according to the law they should have arrested Ramos after hearing he’s audio. The blade does cut both ways !!

    1. So if I were to go up to somebody and say “see these fists they are getting ready to F#$% you up” that would be illegal right? If there are any Police on here from the BCC sight please enlighten me..

  101. anonymous :
    9c1copcar, my husband is a reformed (chicano) gangbanger and would agree wholeheartedly with everything you just said. On the same note, for years I have discredited everything he has told me about law enforcement. I honestly just couldn’t accept his stories of organized beatings, planting of evidence, etc as truth because it flew in the face of everything my public schools and parents told me.
    Now I just feel like an idiot.
    He has stories for days, though, about Fullerton cops. He says that DiCaprio fellow and another Officer Cross used to meet gangbangers in the parks for Fight Club-esque brawls. He always told me the police were just a glorified gang and now I finally get it.

    Their crimes with the badge are rampant. A suggestion always have some cash on your person, when the corrupt cops shake you down they will take the cash and tell you to get lost.
    If your a woman and lucky they may be too drunk to molest you.

  102. Anonymous – I had a deputy OC sheriff in Stanton admit to me and a friend (we worked security at a bar) that he had a “throwaway” gun and knife for “special occasions.” He didn’t need to specifically tell me what he meant as it was obvious.

    That was in the 90’s. I was told a couple of weeks ago that he was fired from OCSD.

    His name is Rick Arnold.

  103. My Username Rocks :
    Anonymous – I had a deputy OC sheriff in Stanton admit to me and a friend (we worked security at a bar) that he had a “throwaway” gun and knife for “special occasions.” He didn’t need to specifically tell me what he meant as it was obvious.
    That was in the 90′s. I was told a couple of weeks ago that he was fired from OCSD.
    His name is Rick Arnold.

    That’s routine with these animals. Planting drugs is easier they all pop percs. Then again Ramoshit murdered Kelly Thomas with full knowledge that he was being recorded by cameras and his DAR and many witnesses. The only witnesses on the scene who saw nothing were the four cops who needed to view the city video that the stupid taxpayers are not allowed to see.

  104. My Username Rocks :
    Anonymous – I had a deputy OC sheriff in Stanton admit to me and a friend (we worked security at a bar) that he had a “throwaway” gun and knife for “special occasions.” He didn’t need to specifically tell me what he meant as it was obvious.
    That was in the 90′s. I was told a couple of weeks ago that he was fired from OCSD.
    His name is Rick Arnold.

    If sheriff Ricky Arnold was fired, must be he was not sharing his shake down money or skimming off the top of the envelopes he was collecting for the RAMOSHIT fund raiser to bail him out so he will keep his mouth shut.

  105. No, he was fired for something related to domestic violence.

    My partner at the bar hit someone IN THE HEAD with a baton once-which is illegal as fuck-and you know how Arnold replied when told of this?

    “He must’ve ducked into it.”

  106. Bob from Baltimore stated: “Well according to the law they should have arrested Ramos after hearing he’s audio.”
    Exactly. I’ve been saying that all along.
    It’s great to see another blogging brethren from back east. Thaks for your comments adn support.

    1. Thanks to all that brought this to light!!! Funny how those at BCC have no problem quoting that law as a way to attact some broad, vauge threats to them but they ignore that same law with video and audio evidence when it comes to one of there own.
      I may not agree with everthing that is posted here but I cannot see any justification for killing a man just because of how he sat on the curb, imagine if Ramos would have just let that one little thing go, after all Kelly complied to all there other requests he even let them search his personal property, if only Ramos would have exersized some common sence, some humanity. That is the worst of this, Kelly died because of the way he sat on the curb.

  107. One thing the BCC group pointed out that I hadn’t noticed before was the media and everyone else involved has posted nothing but pix of Kelly either (relatively) clean cut, or with a very neatly trimmed beard and haircut.

    They never show any recent pix of Kelly, with his long hair and long unkempt beard.

    It turns out to be true. I was looking at the hospital photo of Kelly, and I never noticed, but when you look past the blood and trauma, he does in fact have a long bushy beard.

    Why is this.

    1. I’m pretty sure it’s because his family hasn’t had anything to do with him for several years. The pictures they use were when he was younger, when the family still associated with him. I think I heard a number of 10 years since they have had any meaningful contact with him. So they show the only thing they have.

    2. When I got out of the Marines I grew a big beard and let my hair go….. what the hell does that have to do with anything?

  108. Might he be viewed in a less than positve light if recent photos of him resembling a viking were shown to the public?

    I am not at all trying to antagonize, just asking a legtimate question.

    1. Then I could be wrong. I haven’t seen any family type pics of him since he was around 25. The only current ones I have seen were the ones people took of him from a distance. Long hair, long beard.

  109. Goddamnit I hate when comments post out of sequence.

    The Captain Obvious remark was directed at JD, not you, RI.

  110. This was just posted on their site:

    Big City Cops

    REMINDER:
    All of you which are members of the Kelly Thomas support page, dont comment anymore… simply monitor the activity, any viable threat, “screen copy” and email to any of the admins… if you can, click on the icon of the threat maker and also copy the URL…

    The case continues to develop, all the updates are on the website…for those of you which are concerned about not being able to comment, we’re not allowing it now so that we can keep all the updates fresh. We’re not going to allow any more conversation…

    if you have additional info, click on the “contact us” link and send a message, we all get the same emails…so one of teh admins will post the additional info or let you know it’s status… be patient, the page is growing too fast for us to be able to answer/post all emails…

    copy and paste the URL for the donations… click the WF2710 link for the page in which to make the contribution… Dont send the URL to just anyone, verify sincerity… we’ve turned away a few, but others have made up for it…

    Keep up the good work…

  111. I love how they are so adamant about print-screening “viable threats” yet made a remark about having people ready to “take care of their parked cars.”

    Hopefully someone got a screenshot of that viable threat because it’s gone now.

    Who is that you were calling “cowards” again, BCC?

    *snicker*

  112. You guys are wasting your time patronizing that Facebook site and giving us updates. Let those losers drift off into the sunset.

    1. Yeah, I agree. As one of the people on the site pointed out, “you can’t cure stupid.” So I decided to stop trying because it made me just as silly to comment.

  113. It’s amazing that the cops involved with Big City Cops believe that they’re going to win the public relations battle with the nonsense they’re posting. Self-entitlement, threats, diatribes, calling themselves heroes, pontificating that we can’t protect ourselves, will just cause them to lose even more of our trust and respect. That is, if there is any left for them already.

    By evidence of this Facebook page, police officers are becoming the biggest domestic threats to law-abiding citizens and a civilized society in America.

    1. I agree. All they’re doing is drawing more negative attention to themselves. If I were one of the few decent officers, I would be extremely unhappy with these extremists. Or at least I hope they’re extremists and not the norm. Because that would be frightening.

      1. Just keep in mind that we have no clue who those people are. I’ve never heard of them ever. I’m pretty sure they have no affiliation to So Cal or the Fullerton PD. A letter was sent out statewide seeking assistance and that group got one, probably from a POA, and put it on their page. They could be some white supremacist, anti group in Idaho for all we know. Just keep that in mind.

  114. Reality is states, “So yes I was thinking and it wasn’t an excuse. I’ve seen it for over 20 years up close and personal.”

    Your argument is well-stated. Unfortunately, it has a very large hole in in the middle of it. You say words to the general effect that the people (in the institution you referred to) became base human beings as a result of the baseness of the people they supervised or professionally encountered.

    I do not question your veracity. Instead, I wonder about your objectivity. Being a part of what I suspect was a substandard institution
    to begin with, you probably — without even realizing it — came to accept unquestioningly the glib, self-serving views of those around you. There is no reason for believing that your thesis was not honest and well-written, but that does not make your conclusions correct. After all, writers of academic theses are expected to hold very differing views.

    You offer nothing at all to demonstrate that the the employees you refer to were the right people for the job in the first place. My view remains that they were in fact the wrong people for the job. They never should have been hired in the first place. Whoever was charge of personnel was incompetant and was fooled by a thin veneer of decency and integrity that soon wore off.

    A kindergarten teacher worthy of her job will not act like a five year old. The people who
    hired that teacher have the right to expect better of her. Her being around five year olds for forty hours a week is no excuse for floor-rolling, rug-chewing tantrums in the principal’s
    office or the teachers’ lounge.

    A psychiatrist in a mental hospital will not be tolerated if he takes on all the attributes of an acting-out mental patient, no matter how many disturbed individuals he sees each week.

    A primate keeper in a zoo will not hold his job long once his own behavior is found habitually to mimic the most aggressive and unpleasant behaviors of a rabid baboon.

    You have not come close to convincing me that a person of intelligent mind and excellent character who is properly screened and hired to work in law enforcement should expect to be excused for acting like a cheap thug and engaging in criminal behavior OF ANY
    SORT. Let alone for participating in a torture murder while acting under color of authority.

    Undercover work is bit different but the same
    principles apply. Undercover work, when done
    properly, is about acting. It is not about losing one’s moral compass. In fact, undercover work done on the public dime must actually require higher moral and ethical standards than ordinary policing, because undercover operatives generally have more latitude in their actions and less supervision.

    1. Could be. It was based on questioning and pysch evals of 250 deputies.

      They do pysch and lie and all the other standard tests. They could do more I’m sure but nothing is perfect and nothing says how a person matures and develops.

      With departments the size of LA Sheriffs it’s tough I’m sure. It’s hard enough to find good cops with the process in place right now. Tighten it up and they may find none. 20 years ago about 10% of applicants ot hired. Now the job isn’t as appealing and more fail backgrounds. LA Sheriffs is hiring 3000 deputies this very minute.

      Not sure what the answer is. We want close to perfection in public servants and we will never be anything close to perfect.

      1. “Not sure what the answer is. We want close to perfection in public servants and we will never be anything close to perfect.”

        At least part of the answer probably lies somewhere along the lines of disbanding the public police unions.

      2. Random drug and alcohol screens after employment done consistently would also help. Substance abuse is often a contributing factor in many social problems. Again, another complex problem that people tend to oversimplify because they don’t know much about it. Screens would not be enough unless we offer treatment, which is becoming less likely these days.

          1. Well, sometimes they don’t want to know because then they will have to address it. There are ways to address it–which is to treat it like you would any disease–but there are costs involved there. Despite the fact that in the long run treating addiction is more cost effective than not, employers are moving away from it. Employers include any occupation you can think of, including law enforcement agencies, hospitals, school systems, construction companies, and so forth. Have treated a cross section of occupations and socioeconomic statuses and can attest to the effectiveness of quality treatment (another piece of the complexity puzzle), which really does not have to be overly expensive but…well, another complex issue.

            Anyway, when it comes to violent behaviors, including domestic violence, baseball field brawls, homicide and suicide, etc. the overwhelming majority of the time, some mood altering substance was on board.

          2. Personally, I’m in favor of most of our cops being dosed with large amount of acid, ecstasy, and weed. Look at it this way – how could it possibly make things worse, and maybe it would make a few of them reflect on their lack of morality.

            On the other hand, they should be banned from using stimulants, alcohol, or steroids.

      3. I just remembered what made me think of the random drug screening. Addiction to alcohol/drugs is progressive, gets worse over time without some intervention. So the person starts out at one place, say at age 21, but by 41, their substance abuse has progressed, and it affects their functioning on many levels. Then progress to 51, 61 (with alcoholism, men can drink steadily and heavily longer than women because of the differences in the way the body processes it) and over time their psych eval would look different than where it started. Then add a whole bunch of other complicating factors. So there is not a perfect measure but there are certain things that would come out on an early test, including such personality disorders as antisocial personality and narcissistic personality.

        1. Anonymous :
          I just remembered what made me think of the random drug screening. Addiction to alcohol/drugs is progressive, gets worse over time without some intervention. So the person starts out at one place, say at age 21, but by 41, their substance abuse has progressed, and it affects their functioning on many levels. Then progress to 51, 61 (with alcoholism, men can drink steadily and heavily longer than women because of the differences in the way the body processes it) and over time their psych eval would look different than where it started. Then add a whole bunch of other complicating factors. So there is not a perfect measure but there are certain things that would come out on an early test, including such personality disorders as antisocial personality and narcissistic personality.

  115. oderint dum metuant=Let them hate so long as they fear

    vereor est requiro per malum=fear is demanded by evil

  116. Wow that Big City Cops page is kooky! It is a law enforcement PR guys nightmare. Completely ideological btw, and links to some of the most extreme right wing insanity like conspiracy theorist Alex Jones Inforwars and Glenn Beck’s The Blaze.

  117. REALITY IS,

    Can I count on meeting you tomorrow? I would really love to discuss things with you.
    Also, I do believe that deputies should go directly from the academy to the streets. Let the jails be civilianized. Have a LT. and a SGT. for the jail ops management, and everyone else that is sworn, to have their butts out on the streets.

  118. Bob from Baltimore on September 30, 2011

    oderint dum metuant=Let them hate so long as they fear

    vereor est requiro per malum=fear is demanded by evil

    This is the perfect Stalinist montra.

  119. Sheriff’s Dept. orders 1,500 new Tasers

    The Associated Press
    Created: 09/30/2011 12:43:29 PM PDT

    SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. (AP) – Taser International Inc. said Wednesday it has received the first major county order for its new TaserX2 model from the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office.
    The sheriff’s office has ordered 1,500 of the Tasers for its patrol officers, the company said. It didn’t disclose financial terms of the deal.

    Taser received the order from ProForce Law Enforcement, a long-time law enforcement distributor for the Western U.S.

    The order is expected to ship in the third quarter.

    Taser shares rose 10 cents, or 2.3 percent, to $4.43 in morning trading Thursday.

  120. LENS JAVERT on September 30, 2011

    Reality is states, “So yes I was thinking and it wasn’t an excuse. I’ve seen it for over 20 years up close and personal.”

    Your argument is well-stated. Unfortunately, it has a very large hole in in the middle of it. You say words to the general effect that the people (in the institution you referred to) became base human beings as a result of the baseness of the people they supervised or professionally encountered.

    I do not question your veracity. Instead, I wonder about your objectivity. Being a part of what I suspect was a substandard institution
    to begin with, you probably — without even realizing it — came to accept unquestioningly the glib, self-serving views of those around you. There is no reason for believing that your thesis was not honest and well-written, but that does not make your conclusions correct. After all, writers of academic theses are expected to hold very differing views.

    You offer nothing at all to demonstrate that the the employees you refer to were the right people for the job in the first place. My view remains that they were in fact the wrong people for the job. They never should have been hired in the first place. Whoever was charge of personnel was incompetant and was fooled by a thin veneer of decency and integrity that soon wore off.

    A kindergarten teacher worthy of her job will not act like a five year old. The people who
    hired that teacher have the right to expect better of her. Her being around five year olds for forty hours a week is no excuse for floor-rolling, rug-chewing tantrums in the principal’s
    office or the teachers’ lounge.

    A psychiatrist in a mental hospital will not be tolerated if he takes on all the attributes of an acting-out mental patient, no matter how many disturbed individuals he sees each week.

    A primate keeper in a zoo will not hold his job long once his own behavior is found habitually to mimic the most aggressive and unpleasant behaviors of a rabid baboon.

    You have not come close to convincing me that a person of intelligent mind and excellent character who is properly screened and hired to work in law enforcement should expect to be excused for acting like a cheap thug and engaging in criminal behavior OF ANY
    SORT. Let alone for participating in a torture murder while acting under color of authority.

    Undercover work is bit different but the same
    principles apply. Undercover work, when done
    properly, is about acting. It is not about losing one’s moral compass. In fact, undercover work done on the public dime must actually require higher moral and ethical standards than ordinary policing, because undercover operatives generally have more latitude in their actions and less supervision.

    In my time in the jails, I never lost my human bearing or my decency compass. I will admit one thing though, when it came to dealing with Crips, I was fair, but hard-nosed. Those inmates were the worst society has ever bred. For example, one of them killed his own mother for flushing his stash down the toilet. They have absolutely no decency, or humanity about them, other than they have 2 arms and 2 legs. These asshats would kill you in an instant, if you were not on your guard. I have not had the displeasure of working with too many Bloods, but I can assure you, Crips will not give you the time of day to say your prayers.
    I was hard on them, because my desire to stay alive, was more than their determination was to kill me.
    After all this though, I still had my fun, jolly, joking and easy-going personality that I always had, so Lens, I do agree with you regarding one to keep things mentally divided, and not become like the surroundings.
    RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED

  121. anonymous on September 30, 2011

    9c1copcar, my husband is a reformed (chicano) gangbanger and would agree wholeheartedly with everything you just said. On the same note, for years I have discredited everything he has told me about law enforcement. I honestly just couldn’t accept his stories of organized beatings, planting of evidence, etc as truth because it flew in the face of everything my public schools and parents told me.

    Now I just feel like an idiot.

    He has stories for days, though, about Fullerton cops. He says that DiCaprio fellow and another Officer Cross used to meet gangbangers in the parks for Fight Club-esque brawls. He always told me the police were just a glorified gang and now I finally get it.

    ## anonymous, no need to feel that way. I was schooled the same way to look at law enforcement as pure. In my experience, I have viewed much to the opposite. I am proud of those who, in amongst all the crap, are still abiding by their oaths.

  122. Mlee,

    Just look what happened when they cited people for honking; many bought horns and the such. Happens to a free people when those with power try to suppress.

    1. Exactly. “United we stand, divided we fall.”

      People be uniting n such.

      Ftr, little confused about the dates on that second link. Old dates but perhaps just with more recent updates included? Not sure, on my phone and sometimes i cant see the full page from it. Nonetheless, first link is dated today. Look at all the ones that say they’re joining in. Amazing stuff.

  123. BLESSUSALL,

    Please tell me you are going to write a book when all is said and done. With all of your experience, you will help many more by writing it on paper.

    1. 9c1copcar:

      Thank you for the kind words. I have a feeling that only the people who already “get it” would read it. I have been fortunate on my path, which has not always been easy, to have learned so much for which I am grateful. I am fortunate to have gotten to know not just from books but from the actual experience of working with people with all kinds of issues. Honestly, what I find, is that we are amazingly similar to one another, in that what people want and need, at the core, is to love and be loved. Even schizophrenics with long hair and beards wearing dirty pants and no shirts. And police officers and prisoners and protesters and posters…and so on.

  124. BLESSUSALL,

    Oh, just one more thing, our dept. does random drug testing. What they do not do, is test for anabolic steroids. On the market now, are some of the most potent drugs that make one very agitated, and can also be disasterous with the right combination of officer and situation.
    A real herculean effort also has to be undertaken to adresss rampant alcohol abuse. It leads to many domestic violence incidents, and police misconduct charges.

  125. Lol. The BCC page is comical. Like, they start a thread discussing some other random schizophrenic, who was cultivating marijuana and then killed someone…and they are somehow trying to justify it as being the same circumstances as what happened with Kelly Thomas. 2 completely different situations. All they are proving is that they are not mentally capable of handling different situations. They are like, “omg, the mentally ill can be so dangerous!” lol. Hello guys, ANYBODY can be dangerous. Plenty of “sane” people are also murderers. So why KT is being compared to a murderer is beyond me. Some of these cops need some therapy.

    This is an APPLE; This is an ORANGE.

    Capisce?

  126. Bob from Baltimore wrote:

    “I may not agree with everthing that is posted here but I cannot see any justification for killing a man just because of how he sat on the curb, imagine if Ramos would have just let that one little thing go, after all Kelly complied to all there other requests he even let them search his personal property, if only Ramos would have exersized some common sence, some humanity. That is the worst of this, Kelly died because of the way he sat on the curb.”

    After listening to the DA, and reading publicly posted reports from a number of credible sources, I don’t think Kelly’s sitting on the curb had anything to do with the “little game” that escalated into Kelly’s torture murder.
    If Kelly had been standing on the sidewalk twirling his thumbs, the result would have been the same.

    While I agree with those who believe there was no conspiracy to murder Kelly, It has become clear that idea was to “teach Kelly a lesson he would never forget.” There have been reports of complaints about Kelly affronting the denizens of an unusually slimy downtown tavern, and that may have had something to do with the determination that it was “time to teach Kelly a lesson.”

    Of course, our fat cowardly sadist needed a pretext to get the ball rolling, you might say. The game was to give Kelly a series of commands meant to confuse and antagonize him, and then, with Fatso’s sinister glove routine, to panic Kelly into running and struggling, so our fat invertebrate, assisted with plenty of very brutal help, could see Kelly worked over with impunity.

    Whether the four who came late to Fatso’s little party were in on the “game plan” from the start is not yet possible to determine based on information released. But it does seem highly suspicious that the four “latecomers” included one brutish heavy reputed to be a ticking time bomb carrying an outsized grudge of many years standing, along with a second heavy notorious both for his brutality as well as his habit of perjury which was so pronounced that — in reference to framing another victim of his brutality — this hulking liar told a bald-faced whopper in a court of law, a transparent fib, in fact, which was absolutely refuted by videotaped evidence. Whether these two sterling chaps were present at Fatso’s party by coincidence or by design, is not yet clear.

    Furthermore, as far as the outcome (in which the “lesson” become a torture-murder) it strains credulity to imagine that the four who
    arrived later had never learned, either in their
    “training” or in their combined long years of
    experience, that when several heavy men pile on top of an unresisting small man, the likely
    result is lack of breath and death for the victim at the bottom of the pile.

    Kelly’s sitting on the curb had nothing to do with the outcome, then. A fat, sadistic invertebrate’s game had everything to do with that, however. Whether the four who arrived later were in on Fatso’s fun-and-games from the start or simply reacted to a sadist’s devious “distress” call, but reacted in an incredibly stupid, reckless and brutal fashion is a mystery which has not been solved yet, at least as far as what the public has been told.

  127. Bob from Baltimore wrote: “I may not agree with everthing that is posted here but I cannot see any justification for killing a man just because of how he sat on the curb, imagine if Ramos would have just let that one little thing go, after all Kelly complied to all there other requests he even let them search his personal property, if only Ramos would have exersized some common sence, some humanity. That is the worst of this, Kelly died because of the way he sat on the curb.”

    After listening to the DA and reading publicly posted reports from a number of reasonably credible sources I don’t think Kelly’s sitting on the curb had anything to do with the “little game” that escalated into the victim’s torture-murder.

    If Kelly had been standing on the sidewalk twirling his thumbs, the horrific result would have been the same.

    While I do agree with those who believe there was no conspiracy to murder Kelly, it has become clear that the idea was to “teach Kelly a lesson he would never forget.” There have been reports of a complaint about Kelly from an affronted denizen of an unusually slimy downtown tavern, and that may or may not have had something to do with the determination that it was “time to teach Kelly a lesson.” That may have been what instigated events, or maybe it was just the case of “Officer Gloves” looking for his evening’s entertainment.

    A fat, cowardly sadist needed a pretext to get the ball rolling, that much has become crystal clear. His game involved giving Kelly a series of conflicting commands meant to confuse and antagonize him, climaxing in the sinister glove routine. The goal was to panic Kelly into running and struggling, so our fat invertebrate — assisted with seven or eight hundred pounds of very brutal help which would arrive almost immediately — could enjoying seeing Kelly worked over with impunity. The DA made that much quite plain.

    Whether the four who came late to Fatso’s little party were in on the “game plan” from the start is not yet possible to determine based on information released. But it does seem highly suspicious that the four “latecomers” included one brutish heavy reputed to be a ticking time-bomb carrying an outsized grudge of many years standing, along with a second heavy notorious both for his brutality as well as his habit of perjury. In fact, his addiction to perjury proved so ingrained that — in reference to his trying to frame another victim of his brutality — this hulking liar shamelessly told a bald-faced whopper in a court of law, a transparent fib, in fact, which was absolutely refuted by videotaped evidence! Whether this sterling pair was present at Fatso’s party by coincidence or by design is not yet clear.

    Furthermore, as far as the outcome (in which the “lesson” became an unplanned torture-murder) it strains credulity to imagine that the four who arrived later had never learned, either in their “training” or in their combined long years of
    experience, that when several heavy men pile on top of an unresisting small man, the likely
    result is lack of breath and subsequent death for the victim at the bottom of the pile.

    Kelly’s sitting on the curb had nothing to do with the outcome, then. A fat, cruel invertebrate’s game had everything to do with that, however. The four who arrived later may have been in on Fatso’s fun-and-games from the start. Either that or they simply were chumped by a sadist’s devious “distress” call, and then they reacted in an incredibly stupid, reckless and brutal fashion.

    Since the suspects are reported still clammed up, which scenario is the actual one is a mystery which has not been solved yet, at least as far as what the public has been told.

    1. Sorry, I guess I’m just dense.

      The police are to enfore the laws.

      Where does the decision ‘to teach Kelly a lesson he’ll never forget.’ come into the picture?

    1. Posted a civil comment there, and it was deleted within minutes. Go figure.
      I would encourage others to try to get a post on that wall.
      Posters are calling KT a criminal.

  128. Reality Is :
    Sheriff’s Dept. orders 1,500 new Tasers
    The Associated Press
    Created: 09/30/2011 12:43:29 PM PDT
    SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. (AP) – Taser International Inc. said Wednesday it has received the first major county order for its new TaserX2 model from the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office.
    The sheriff’s office has ordered 1,500 of the Tasers for its patrol officers, the company said. It didn’t disclose financial terms of the deal.
    Taser received the order from ProForce Law Enforcement, a long-time law enforcement distributor for the Western U.S.
    The order is expected to ship in the third quarter.
    Taser shares rose 10 cents, or 2.3 percent, to $4.43 in morning trading Thursday.

    Recently ordered one for myself. You never know when it might be needed.

  129. Brandon :
    Chris,
    Thanks for the information/advice. You are correct. The BCC page does delete any comments they do not like. I posted this last night:
    Never seen so much hatred in my life. I guess calling people you disagree with “retards” and “morons” is easier than engaging in intelligent debate. Sounds like the same type of rage that was in Ramos and Cicinelli as they viciously beat Kelly Thomas to death for not acquiescing well enough to their demands. Long after they are in prison, the changes this will bring about to law and order will stand. Eventually cops will learn they can’t do whatever they want and get away with it. Thanks to Lira for showing that it’s not just a few rogue cops who support the ability of officers to kill indiscreetly and get away with it. Any of those bashing Ron Thomas asking what kind of parents teach their kids to beat, stomp, and taser an unarmed man with mental illness to death while he cries out for his dad? Anyone know why the D.A. report says all six officers were involved in the restraining of Thomas if they got there after the fatal beating was over? I’m no cop, but would think it was unnecessary to restrain an unconscious man lying in a pool of his own blood. Maybe it’s some sort of esoteric cop procedure. Nobody in their right mind thinks Thomas’ misdemeanor history made him a dangerous criminal unworthy of life. Anyone who knows anything about the law and/or mental illness knows you can not force an adult to take their medication or stay off the streets. Keep deflecting the facts from the real crime here and spread some more hate. In the end they’ll still be two murderers in prison, four without badges, a disgraced chief, no more Mc-Dick-Head hiring psychologically disturbed cops who were injured in the line of duty, and millions of hardworking taxpayer’ dollars going to the Thomas family, Vam, and Quiñonez. Maybe the supporters should start donating to the “friends of irresponsible policing” fund now. Keep the peace Justice for Kelly seekers. Remember hatred begets hatred. “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
    And the admin deleted it this morning. So much for freedom of speech. While I agree with you on being careful what you post on a hostile facebook page that cops are on, I feel we can not let these people intimidate us. They are just a group of scared, hate-mongers who do not want to hear any dissenting opinions. Thank goodness for sites like this that allow ANYONE to post.

    Well said!

  130. van get it da artiste, from your comments far above, you ask if beating a homeless disabled man to death is in the interest of the status quo?

    The short answer in this case seems to be yes. The status quo sees many people die, and they become so weary caring for indivuduals that the whole situation becomes “risk management”.

    The challenge for Rusty now is to rise above the status quo and regain the passion that he had in his young 20’s, or people in their young 20’s will replace his passion. His challenge is to cease referring to the death of Kelly Thomas as a tragedy and call it a crime with perpetrators and underlying pre-conditions.

    I don’t mind cuts and arguements against the Kennedies. It was part of growing up in Fullerton. On this website I am a cousin and therefore one of the Dead Kennedies. I will correct history or explain what they are trying to do in their own minds if I know it.

    Of course, in the family, to be a Brow is decidedly not to be a Kennedy. Even in the Kennedy family there were differences. I once witnessed Rusty’s younger sister beat him like a dog with a rolled up magazine while all the other Kennedies and all the Brows roared in approval.

    I left off with Bipolar skank well over a year ago when (she?) opined that my memories of the Kennedies must be limited to a few encounters in the 1960’s, which of course was off base. Then as now, I was posting by my true name, so she did not know the Kennedies well enough to know who I was.

    Similarly, since you know aunt Nat by her old address and I lived right around the corner from 1960 to 1977, I wonder if you knew me or I knew you.

    I am well accustomed to political differences turning people to a rage. Still, most people were able to soften their differences with the Kennedies and appreciate them as people. I might agree on many things with both bipolar skank and you. But from both there seems to be a personal bitterness that is uncustomary, deep, that I don’t understand, and that I am not going to fall into.

    The truth that will set you free? Unfortunately both my aunt and my mother loved to truncate that quote. The full quote is by paraphrase, “If you abide in me and follow my ways, then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.” And the quote, of course, is from Jesus.

    1. Steve, it is not important if you knew me. What matters is Rusty Kennedy and his colleague Pat McKinley may not be trusted to allow justice to occur in the Kelly Thomas beating death. In fact, it would not shock me if both these men use their cronies to protect their respective public service positions. I knew this family, and I saw lies, cheating, greed, hypocrisy and sychophantic behavior on their part. The Kennedy’s were and are foul. You have my sympathy for being related to them.

    2. where most people would not have laughed, you and your family “roared in approval”. I doubt you and your family will ever see the difference

  131. Bob from Baltimore on September 30, 2011

    oderint dum metuant=Let them hate so long as they fear

    vereor est requiro per malum=fear is demanded by evil

    This is the perfect Stalinist montra.

    True, those words borrowed from one of the most notorious (and murderous) slimebag Roman emperors could be a Stalinist mantra and are in fact just as handily a Nazi mantra, especially when accompanied by the brazen use of the “totenkopf.” It’s funny, in a sick way, that someone who would probably never be honest enough about his true sentiments publicly to borrow an attribution from Hitler or Stalin to show where he stands, has no compunction about proudly quoting the thoughts of a murderous pervert, one of the vilest in a long line of murderous perverts! While it is futile to argue who is the most evil among the world’s great evildoers, the fact remains that on a personal level, Caligula was much less a man, and far baser and more perverted in his personal behavior than either Hitler or Stalin, despicable and murderous as they both were. Yet regarding Caligula it is clear that we are talking about this totenkopf louse’s personal hero, someone he proudly borrows his words and thoughts from! As I suggested in another post, it is almost as though Mr. Thomas — in his
    very understandable grief, anger and his
    quest for justice — has turned over a large
    rock and we are all witnessing some
    scary critters swarming out, angry as all hell at having their behavior examined…

    Reply Quote #318 by Reality Is on September 30, 2011

  132. Alright brothers. We’re on a tactical mission to gather evidence against anyone who disagrees with us so we can block them from our site. This just in: LEO’s in Fullerton today incapacitated a filthy homeless transient who appeared to be suspicious. After consulting with my brother for 30 minutes we made a tactical decision no crime had been committed, but he looked like he might be a dirty commie liberal so we decided we better teach him a lesson. Well I figured some of my fellow freedom lovers might want to teach him a lesson too so we called for back-up. Unfortunately the perp put up a violent struggle and we had to beat him into unconsciousness before our brothers could get there. They still helped secure the suspect and made sure he was really unconscious though. Excellent work men! Ok my God-fearing, love it or leave it brethren, back to the subject at hand. We need to stay on top of these justice supporting extremists and let them know they can not oppose us. We’ll be watching them for future un-American activity.

    Note: If this had been an actual BCC post there would be glaring spelling and grammatical errors, and 12 testosterone laden comments by cops reiterating what was said in the first post.

  133. Who knows who these BCC people are–anyone can start a Facebook page. My question is, if a letter for assistance went out state wide, was the mailing done on Fullerton PD time and dime? Years ago I was working at a place where one of my coworkers, who was a member of a professional association, during work hours at the work place, used work time and the office supplies, including paper, envelopes, copier, and postage stamps to do a mailing for that association. The bosses were not too happy about this. Ben Lira gets to support whoever he chooses but this should not be happening on PD time, including giving out the FPD front desk line for people to call. Unless the FPD wants to donate equal time and resources, for instance, to Justice for Kelly Thomas and the people are okay with this.

    Reality Is :
    I bet he has no association and I bet no Fullerton cops do either. The letter for assistance went out California wide. I’ve never heard of BCC in my life. Probably just a cop that made a page where people can hit “like” and watch the page. No clue what it is. Appears on face value to be a bunch of cops and retired cops who don’t like activists, anti police or anti government. Who knows. I think the association with Lira and Fullerton has been linked and overblown on purpose.

  134. Piaget and Concrete Operations of Human Development

    Characteristics of Concrete Operations:

    The concrete operational stage begins around age seven and continues until approximately age eleven. During this time, children gain a better understanding of mental operations. Children begin thinking logically about concrete events, but have difficulty understanding abstract or hypothetical concepts.
    Logic:
    Piaget determined that children in the concrete operational stage were fairly good at the use of inductive logic. Inductive logic involves going from a specific experience to a general principle. On the other hand, children at this age have difficulty using deductive logic, which involves using a general principle to determine the outcome of a specific event.

    Perhaps some folks do not progress much beyond the concrete operations stage?

    Mlee :
    Lol. The BCC page is comical. Like, they start a thread discussing some other random schizophrenic, who was cultivating marijuana and then killed someone…and they are somehow trying to justify it as being the same circumstances as what happened with Kelly Thomas. 2 completely different situations. All they are proving is that they are not mentally capable of handling different situations. They are like, “omg, the mentally ill can be so dangerous!” lol. Hello guys, ANYBODY can be dangerous. Plenty of “sane” people are also murderers. So why KT is being compared to a murderer is beyond me. Some of these cops need some therapy.
    This is an APPLE; This is an ORANGE.
    Capisce?

    1. So this means Ramos and thoe other officers involved were deprived of proper mental development and instruction when they were seven years old?

  135. What happens when people loose fear of something they hate? Or what happens when hate turns to rage?

    When I was young, very young, there was a bully on my street. He was feared and hated by people, he was big for his age and this intimidated people and he capitalized on it. I tried ignoring him as much I could, until one day, he crossed the line.

    I was on my bike and he stepped out onto the road, so I made sure I would be far enough away from him I could simply pass by. Well, mr. bully decided it would be fun to knock me off my bike. So he when i was close enough to him. He made sure he would come in contact with me to pull me off my bike.

    What happened next was something I will never forget, I saw myself scuffed up and bleeding from my hand and arm, asphalt isn’t something you want to fall on. I looked up at the kid and he had started to put this grin on his face like he did something funny but instead of being upset in the way he thought i would be, I gave him the look of death and he suddenly bolted from me, I was about three or four steps behind him running after him when he cried out, “MOMMA!” in a panic.

    I’ll never forget that the first time in my life I learned real quick bullies are cowards. What Fullerton has, is bullies operating under the color of law.

  136. In my time in the jails, I never lost my human bearing or my decency compass. I will admit one thing though, when it came to dealing with Crips, I was fair, but hard-nosed. Those inmates were the worst society has ever bred. For example, one of them killed his own mother for flushing his stash down the toilet. They have absolutely no decency, or humanity about them, other than they have 2 arms and 2 legs. These asshats would kill you in an instant, if you were not on your guard. I have not had the displeasure of working with too many Bloods, but I can assure you, Crips will not give you the time of day to say your prayers.
    I was hard on them, because my desire to stay alive, was more than their determination was to kill me.
    After all this though, I still had my fun, jolly, joking and easy-going personality that I always had, so Lens, I do agree with you regarding one to keep things mentally divided, and not become like the surroundings.

    Your comments have the ring of truth. As someone who lived in LA, I am aware of the sort
    of people you are describing, and I know you are not exaggerating. The misery that they cause — much but not all of it to those unfortunate enough to live near them — is vast. Some people have the special qualities of intelligence, character and courage needed for being a “beast tamer” without becoming a beast, which is why people like you deserve the respect and admiration of all of us who value the rule of law in society.

  137. Thanks for the sympathy, Van. I can not say that I have not seen some hypocrisy, and I have made a point to poke at it when I see it. As for the rest, I guess I’ll deal with it when the video is realeased, so to speak. I have my own knowledge but I am not unbiased here.

    I do agree that Rusty’s prior relationship with McKinley and his general position as part of the status quo is a challenge for him. I think that the death of Kelly Thomas will change many things in Fullerton and beyond.

    I don’t however, see Rusty as a person who would have the ability to dissuade nor control Ron Thomas, however.

  138. they should be ashamed of themself..there cops there suppose to protect us..not be a police state…when there spreading the hatred…theres enough hate into the world..we dont need anymore…there just pissed off..cuz the young people piss all over there status quo…we have a voice and there trying to silent that..dont let them…fight for your voice…speak up..dont let them silent u…

    RON PAUL 2012…

    WE ARE THE 99%…

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