Protest at the DA’s Office Tomorrow, Thursday Sept. 8

Ron Thomas just announced there will be a peaceful protest outside Tony Rackauckas’ office tomorrow from 11:00-2:00. For those of you who haven’t been following along, Rackauckas is the Orange County District Attorney who is dragging his feet while trying to decide if he should bring charges against the six Fullerton cops who beat Kelly Thomas to death.

When: 11:00AM – 2:00PM

Where: 401 W. Civic Center Dr. Santa Ana

Be there!

Be here.

116 Replies to “Protest at the DA’s Office Tomorrow, Thursday Sept. 8”

  1. You should everyone call every news outlet and ask if they will be covering the protest. Then you should be darn sure to show up with family and friends. “The more the merrier.”

    Be there of be pigfodder.

  2. The last thing we need is various groups like immigration, open carry, 9/11 truth, etc piggy backing on the Kelly Thomas beating.

    The sheer brutality of the beating speaks for itself and does not need this groups speaking on it’s behalf.

  3. Repost from another thread…

    Jt :
    Wow. Read this anonymous letter to the editor of the Observer;
    All are Terrible
    I am a former Fullerton police officer who
    worked with the six accused of beating Kelly
    Thomas. Two officers are directly responsible
    for the death; one has been a ticking time
    bomb for years. He lives in Corona. Both the
    Fullerton and Corona Police Depts. have covered up his numerous previous altercations.
    All six are terrible police officers and
    deserve to go to prison for manslaughter, pergury, and lying on police reports.
    Chief Sellers is a disgrace to the profession.
    He has made it his captains’ mission to find
    out who is the “leak” at the department and
    has said not only will that officer be terminated, he will be prosecuted. For what? Telling the truth?
    I left the department because it is corrupt
    and full of “Good ol Boys Clubs,” but I still
    know people at FPD. They are appalled by
    the actions of the six officers. The man who
    died, did not need to die.”
    http://www.fullertonobserver.com/artman/uploads/foearlysept.pdf
    So which of the six had a home address in Corona?

    1. Two officers are directly responsible
      for the death; one has been a ticking time
      bomb for years. He lives in Corona. Both the
      Fullerton and Corona Police Depts. have covered up his numerous previous altercations.

      That is the key phrase that exposes the real problem. Previous altercations are covered up. And it’s not just this guy but nearly every cop in every police station does it. True theirs the occasional Serpico, but unfortunately they’re few and far between apparently. Since there are so few that will honor the oath they took, instead of filling their pockets on the take, or submitting to the fear that they’ll be ostracized or even killed, the good cops are no more honorable than the bad, perhaps less. We need a citizens review board with teeth, independant and not answerable to anyone but themselves, not to the police, or the DA. Every time a cop uses a weapon, any weapon it should investigated. I just read that the Orange Co. DA in 15 yrs has never prosecuted or convicted a cop and there’ve been something like 73 cases of murder and abuse in the last few years. We desperately need a review board. In addition the State and Federal AG’s need to look into this DA.

    2. IT SHOULD BE EASY TO RESEARCH UNLESS THEY PULLED THEIR INFO OFF OF ZABASEACH, INTELLIUS IS ANOTHER BACKGROUND WEB SITE. IF YOU CAN’T FIND ANYTHING WITH THE COP’S NAME, AND YOU KNOW THE SPOUSE’S NAME YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIND OUT!

  4. So when does Todd Spitzer take his million bucks and decide to run against T-RAK??

    The fact that he hasn’t is troubling. Perhaps he is waiting for Tony to implode, and then skate in?

  5. T-RAK says it’s the coroner’s office that is dragging its feet, and Chief Deputy Coroner Jacque Berndt has not denied the accusation,
    so wouldn’t a protest at 1071 W. Santa Ana Blvd be more appropriate?

    1. I said that in another post. It’s clear the DA is going to wait for the report and almost sounds like he’s done except that. Sounds like the delay is the coroner.

  6. Protest/Sit In on behalf of Kelly Thomas
    Friday, September 16 · 3:00pm – 5:30pm

    Orange County DA’s Office
    401 Civic Center Drive West
    Santa Ana, California

  7. Dragging his feet? This is nothing. See: the case of Julian Collender. This is the most transparent the DA has been ever. I have the feeling charges are coming.

    1. The public shouldn’t of had to expose the cover-up in order to get charges pressed on the Fullerton Cops. The DA disgusts me…

  8. Protesting the DA’s office is a must! The DA thinks we are going to let these guys get off with murder because they wear a badge? Those cops are a disgrace and so is the DA.
    I hope some news channels give this the attention is deserves.

  9. Maybe we can ask him why a drunk driver and his passenger who had just left a downtown Fullerton bar on July 24th,2011 before crashing and killing his passenger managed to already have been charged with homicide and are having their preliminary hearing tomorrow morning, before charges have been announced against the Fullerton PD for murdering Kelly Thomas three weeks prior to that? Swift justice when it’s on the other foot eh?
    It’s on page 18 of 211 of the cases in the news portion of the website, under Justin Martin Drake.
    Locals may remeber this as the fatal drunk driving crash that occurred on Chapman and Woods.
    http://orangecountyda.com/docs/155730292011casemanagementlist.pdf

  10. sourcebx :Ill let hundreds of people know This is Great

    Is the bus company really going to truck in your buddies from Skid Row? I heard the going rate for Skid Row protesters is $5 & a sack lunch.

  11. Wish I could afford to fly out there, I’d hop on a jet right now. Ugh.

    I’m there in spirit, Fullerton.

    –Dan, Portland

  12. Good morning everyone.

    I believe the Fullerton District Attorney’s office, in order not to disgrace it’s shoddy image any more, should recuse itself of this case. As the latest series of photos, evidence has come forth, I am puzzled as to why the FBI has not made any statements as to it’s future involvements. I do hope they make a decision soon.
    Next time I see Ron, I am going to suggest that he put all 6 under Citizen’s Arrest. It is his RIGHT, and it will enhance the legal process of this case.
    Although Kelly’s life was cut short at the hands of villans, we all should be comforted in the knowledge that he is in GOD’s arms once again, and no one will ever be able to cause him harm anymore.
    Respectfully Submitted

    1. FBI said they are monitoring and waiting for the DA.

      Citizens arrest? For something not committed in Rons presence? You know the cops don’t have to arrest anyone right? They just have to document the request?

        1. True. Documentation is ok if officer doesn’t have probable cause to think the crime actually occurred. Department policy dictates what arrest means for a citizens arrest. A citizen can’t demand a citizens arrest for something they didn’t see.

          1. Why do you go off on rants? No one said anything about the type of arrest. No a citizen, or cops can not make an arrest for a misdemeanor unless they see it. Felony arrests are a bit different!

    2. The FBI is looking into whether or not Kelly’s civil rights were violate and that’s the extent they have jurisdiction over. The DA looks into whether or not the officers directly caused the death. They don’t go into policy or training/tactics. There isn’t any law enforcement agency equipped to truly probe the case. Not even the consultant – he would just be looking into policy at the FPD. The only way to get answers is through lawsuits. All about the $$$.

      1. There is one agency who could probe the case deeply, and not only this case, but a pattern of repeated abuses by FPD. Department of Justice Special Litigation Section.

        1. That’s if a serious pattern of intentional corruption and brutality exists. I don’t think it does. That’s why I don’t think the FBI will get involved.

          1. You know, I think this is the real underlying question. Not one which I have an answer to either. Though on the other hand, if DOJ did come in and conducted a thorough investigation and found that there WASN’T any pattern of brutality and corruption, no harm done, right?

          2. You know, Cakes, I’ve had this discussion with several acquaintences in law enforcement in the area and they all agree that Fullerton (like Newport Beach) is like it’s own little banana republic where the PD operates on its own terms, with the backing of the good ole’ boys at City Hall (lots of former Blue in those hallowed halls), totally unconcerned about the blowback of all of this because they have gotten away with so much in the past. These are law enforcement folks in other local municipalities, the Sherriff and federal law enforcement who have made these comments to me. To a person, they have all agreed that the actions of the officers involved, but more importantly, the department and the City in failing to appreciate the enormity of the situation, have made it harder for law enforcement in general to do its job in the immediate area. I’ve likened it elsewhere to the Bay Area, where every cop in uniform blanches at the actions of the cowboys in the BART police, because every person they encounter on the streets gives them hell about the actions of another agency. Fortunately, this has restored my faith that (outside of the trolls and FPD shills commenting here) wider reaction by law enforcement to this event has been appropriate. Yes, most of them were initially hesitant to rush to judgment. These are folks who know the realities that law enforcement face on the ground on any given day. But after all of the falsehoods, the footdragging and the manuevering by the department and its lackeys, even they have come to admit that this entire situation is a black eye on their profession. A little damage control could have gone a long way. But nobody in the City of Fullerton seemed to think it was neccessary. And that seems pretty telling. Nobody I’ve spoken with in law enforcement seems to doubt the claims that the FPD has shown a pattern of corruption and brutality. Two of them seemed to speak from personal experience about the atmosphere of being above reproach in the FPD. Again, when you’ve got a council and mayor covering for you, why wouldn’t you feel above the law? Then, when the DA engages in the same footdragging and has close ties himself with some in the department, he casts a pall of suspicion above his own office. I know that the autopsy falls on the OCSD. Despite their own problems (proven and alleged), the attitude I’ve gotten from personnel I know in the Sherriff is that the FPD takes outrage to a whole new level. But other people start to wonder if Code Blue also wears Sherriff’s Green when it is taking as long to get an autospy report as it has to get the DA or anyone else supposedly investigating the matter to address the incident in a frank and forthright manner. According to the Fed I know, the FBI would most certainly take such allegations seriously. I’m admittedly perplexed by the statement that the FBI is awaiting the DA’s conclusions (especially given some of the heat that T-Rack’s office has had around its neck). Maybe the feds want to know if the corruption extends to the DA, as well. I tend to doubt that the feds are going to take the DA’s findings as gospel, especially if there is a total whitewash. Whether there is evidence of a pattern of these abuses will remain to be seen. People I’ve spoken to in law enforcement seem to have confirmed that it is a well known fact that Fullerton is a whole different beast. I concede, that and a buck fiddy will get you a cup of coffee. But I’m not so convinced that these guys are walking as straight of a line as you are. One telling fact: aside from the purported FPD insider who called KFI, not one single person from the FPD has come forward to denounce what has happened or even shed light on the incident or what seems to be an ensuing cover up. Seems to confirm the allegations that the Department enforces a strict policy of policing itself and forbidding any sort of whistle-blowing — even in the wake of something as depolrable as this.

  13. 9c1copcar: we all should be comforted in the knowledge that he is in GOD’s arms once again, and no one will ever be able to cause him harm anymore.

    That won’t be very comforting to all the people who don’t believe in a god. But I get your sentiment anyway.

    Kelly should be wandering the streets right now and the people that took his life need to be held accountable and when they are I will feel a bit comforted by that.

  14. FLLERTON OBSERVER:

    My husband and I know very little about the
    tragic death of Kelly Thomas, the young man
    with schizophrenia who had been detained by
    Fullerton police, other than what we have read
    in the newspapers.
    We live in Fullerton and have a young adult
    son with schizophrenia w/paranoia, bi polar,
    and a host of other mental health issues. The
    Fullerton Police are familiar with our son’s
    behavior around town. As our son’s condition
    has worsened my husband and I have had to
    call the Fullerton Police for help.
    The last time we called for police assistance
    was over a weekend this past June when unhappily,
    we had to call them to our house 5 times.
    Our son, who had stopped taking his medication
    some months previous, had gotten worse
    and we had found it necessary to deny him
    entrance to our house. On that weekend he
    was unusually demanding, unpredictable, and
    abusive.
    Over the course of this increasingly unpleasant
    weekend we saw several different shifts of
    officers. Without exception both our son and
    we were treated with utmost respect, patience,
    and concern by all the Fullerton Police units
    who came to our aid. It was clearly evident
    that the police were well briefed on how to deal
    with a person with mental illness.
    Our son was arrested that Sunday afternoon
    and later incarcerated in the Orange County
    Jail Psychiatric Unit. The court issued a 3-year
    restraining order on our behalf and our son is
    now in a court-ordered alcohol and mental
    health program. The reports we get back indicate
    that he is doing well.
    My husband and I have the utmost gratitude
    and respect for the professionalism displayed
    by the Fullerton Police every time they have
    taken care of a bad situation with our schizophrenic
    son.
    anonymous Fullerton
    ED: The couple who submitted the letter
    above are well known in the community but
    wish to remain anonymous

    1. I read that in the Observer, and I believe it. It’s very heartening to know that there are likely many, MANY good cops in Fullerton. I just wish they could all be that good.

      Unfortunately, it’s been made clear time and time again — and most disturbingly in this case — that there are a few that are truly merciless sadists who seem to use human beings as stress-relief tools.

      As people who appreciate the fine work that so many police officers do day in and day out, I would hope that the parents who wrote the editorial would step forward and show support for the integrity of law enforcement, AND for Kelly Thomas. One thing they could do is ask that if any of the police that helped their son was witness to the violence perpetrated against Kelly, that they step forward and break their code of silence in the name of decency.

      I live in Portland and have had a few opportunities to interact with law enforcement here as a victim of crime. They were very professional, and even kindhearted. I am also fully aware that I was dealing with individual human beings, and that not all human beings are the same, regardless of what positions they hold in society.

      The police officers who killed Kelly Thomas may not be representative of the Fullerton police force at large, but it matters not. The evidence so far points to brutal criminal acts perpetrated by those officers, and they ought to be held accountable. Agreed?

    2. Again, NO ONE has ever said all FPD officers are bad. Those involved CLEARLY were. I’m glad this couple had a good experience. That’s the way Kelly should have been treated as well. Hindsight is 20/20 for the FPD. Do you think anyone on the FPD would so much as look at someone the wrong way in this atmosphere.? Under such scrutiny? Are you kidding?????? Understand this. There will be justice. They will go down. Deal with it. All your ridiculous postings will not make your fantasies come true.

  15. I’m sure you are relieved that you/he was treated well by the FPD. No one is saying all the cops are bad, unfortunately the bad cops are giving the good cops a bad rap. Do you think the above mentioned young man would’ve been treated differently had he been out on the street, not in his own home? I do. My guess is, when the police are called to a home they send officers that are experienced in handeling that sort of situation. Either way, I am glad the young man is receiving treatment.

      1. Anonymous :I guess you missed this part we had found it necessary to deny him entrance to our house.

        WHAT, while they waited for the PD to arrive. They didnt send him out to the streets to live for years.

        Are you Fing kidding me.

        Did you see the pics Ron Thomas is using at the News Conference? they are at least 10+ years old and he is not even close to his son in any of them…… He is not hugging his, next to him hell he is arms away from him.

        1. Wow, you are seriously reaching.

          I have an awesome photograph of my Mother and I at the hospital when my Daughter was born and we are about 5 feet from one another. She obviously hates me in your expert analysis.

          You were, no doubt, awful at dot-to-dot puzzles as a child, so I will help you out.

          KT: Off meds and out of the house.
          Anon son of well known couple: Same.

          KT: Restraining order granted to parents.
          Anon son of well known couple: Same.

          You see where this is leading? One could also go with your train of thought…that these are god-awful parents for pawning off their adult (adult being the keyword) mentally ill son to the County Jail.

        2. Did you miss the part about the 3 year restraining order as well? Um, pretty sure denying entrance & getting a 3 year restraining order would be kicking him to the curb. You’re crazy.

          1. And, don’t forget, unfortunately, they had their mentally ill son arrested and taken to jail, instead of having him taken to the hospital on a 5150 for a psych evaluation.

            Having your loved one arrested is not the ideal way to get him/her help. Jails should not be used instead of hospitals. Jails are very dangerous places, and the mentally ill are very vulnerable.

            People who suffer from a mental illness deserve to receive compassionate medical treatment BEFORE it gets to the point where someone thinks they need to be arrested.

            They are arrested for behaviors that they never would have done if it were not for the fact of the severe mental illness.

        3. Also, Ron Thomas has said they got the restraining order in hopes of having Kelly committed, but couldn’t because he was an adult. I wonder how old the “young adult” from this story is. I worked in a book store w/ a young adult section & it was aimed at 12-16 year olds. I’m sure its a lot easier to have a child committed.

    1. Are you still trying disconnect “kicking to the curb” from “denying entrance to our house”?

      Good luck with that.

    2. Yeah, and how many times did the asshole cops get called to the house on RO violations, and you didn’t do a thing about it? Huh? How many times?

  16. I have just read the re-post by Green of the letter to the Fullerton Observer from “jt”, and he/she makes some interesting, valid, and total bullshit points.

    1. From what the civilians have heard, I agree it two officers responsible – NOT 6.

    2. The “ticking timebomb” – how many years and what incidents were covered up? I don’t believe such things have been covered up – not at the Chief level at least – but it has to get up that high for them to “cover it up” McKinley was known to be a pushover when it came it handing out discipline, always a slap on the wrist. Not so with Sellers. He’s been handing out harsher disciple and terminations since he got here. I don’t think you could even remotely say that’s covering things up.
    This statement about Chief Sellers making it his Captains’ mission to find the “leak”? what a crock of shit! Chief Sellers knows from many years of experience that NOTHING says “secret”, so you should’t do or say anything you don’t want others to know about. He met with every one of us when he got here, it took a while but he did it. Civilians were treated as people for the first time since I’ve worked here, and the “good ‘ol boy club” was out. That was under McKinley, and his LAPD attitude. Chief Sellers was getting this place on track – and doing a good job of it. He also had a boss, the City Manager, that is who calls the shots.

    The majority of officers and employees at our department are good, caring people. We came into this line of work to help people, and jt is CORRECT when he/she stated we are appalled by the actions, but of the primary officers! Not all !

    I know you’ll think my statement is contrary to your goal here, but its really not.

    1. Let’s wait to see the reports by those OTHER officers before we give them a free pass and pat on the back. If their reports (you know, the ones all synchronized after watching the video nobody else is allowed to see) — repeat the same BS in the primary officers’ (killers’) reports, then they are equally guilty and deserve no applause (and your comments would be reduced to “self serving,” I would think). Let’s wait and see, though…

      1. True. I imagine their reports will say only what they did and why. They won’t get into what others did and why.

    2. To clarify. This was a letter to the Fullerton Observer from an anonymous former police officer. I copy and pasted the letter to another topic thread on FFFF. Green then copy and pasted my post.

      I am not and never have been affiliated with FPD or any other LE agency. Pretty damn obvious to those who know me but I figured I should mention that just in case.

      As far as your substantive points, I wish the original author of that letter was here to respond. I have no knowledge of whether he/she or you are more correct in your estimation of Sellers and the general goings-on at FPD.

      I do want to say thank you though for this:
      “We came into this line of work to help people, and jt is CORRECT when he/she stated we are appalled by the actions, but of the primary officers!”

      Though again, my name shouldn’t be in that sentence since it was an anonymous former officer who penned that note, not me.

    3. I appreciate the time you took to share this with us, and you seem very rational.

      I’m curious about something else, though. To your knowledge, how did this straight-shooting reformer, Chief Sellers, react when it became clear that not only had his officers falsified police reports, but actually gone into a court of law and perjured themselves in the Veth Mam case??

      He was still acting chief then, right? (or had his “medical condition” already flared up?)

  17. I would like to know which ONE of the officers helped them so I know who to ask for if my flight to the moon fails and I have to call them again in my lifetime.

    “ED: The couple who submitted the letter
    above are well known in the community but
    wish to remain anonymous”

    this last “ED” comment is hilarious. If they are so proud and thankful why NOT post their real name? And what does “well known” have ANYTHING to do with it? Gaaaahhhhh! This makes me crazy. What a total cluster fuck.

    If there is a decent cop left in this city, I hope to God they speak the hell up or get the hell out of the way.

    1. LIF: Why should they tell you who they are? They don’t want some idiot like you know who they are and potentially find out where they live. Why don’t you post your name. Butthole!! Its their opinion and they have the right to post whatever they want, just like you!

    2. If they are so well known, then it should be easy for Fullerton residents to figure out what family had their kid locked up. So… who is it? Also, maybe well known isn’t good. They could be well known for being scumbags. It says nothing about respected.

  18. My apologies JT, thanks for clarifying that. I also wish the anon Officer was on-line to discuss. Because unless it’s one of the officers Sellers held accountable and terminated, thiis person speaks from knowledge of a department culture that was rapidly changing.

    If anyone on this blog bothered to do any checking into his background – you would know that what you all are saying about him is wrong. He was the scapegoat to try and apease you all.

    1. You’re saying Sellers was the scapegoat? That’s interesting.

      I’m also interested in Save US’s question about Sellers’ response to the Veth Mam case. When it became clear that the officers had perjured themselves in their testimony about Mam, who would have been informed of this? Whose job would it have been to investigate this?

      1. The whole Mam case is interesting. How it all played out and what actually happened. It can’t be as clear as his attorney says. If it was then the DA’s office would have filed charges for sure. They would have had to not only because they witnessed it, but also due to the judge. I’ve seen alot of judges on the bench in my time and I’ve seen them put body attachments on cops, remand them into custody, and sanction them. I have never seen a judge that would ever tolerate someone outright lieing under oath in his courtroom.

        Then with the PDs statement about the wrong guy. That must have been the explanation to the judge and DA also.

        I wonder what the minutes say from that trial.

        Which leads into your question about Sellers. Sellers is the scapegoat for sure in the Kelly incident. He was going to investigate this big time and if he found wrongdoing he was going to fire people. Then his plan backfired because people wanted action now not later. He was ready to retire anyways so he just left.

        But the Mam case would be the same as this one internally. Waiting for criminal charges to be brought and if the DA found no wrongdoing then the PD probably did too.

        Would be interesting to know all the details.

        1. “Sellers is the scapegoat for sure in the Kelly incident. He was going to investigate this big time ”
          ^
          WTF
          He did nothing for something like 4 weeks. If I am chief, I would be viewing the city camera footage that night and the officers involved off the streets that night. He was going to investigate my ass. Stop the misinformation campaign, its like starting a war on drugs.

  19. Well. Normally yes. But if that was to actually happen here it would just be another government group involved in a huge coverup. Lose lose. Only way for a win with this group is capital murder with life in prison. That’s not going to happen for sure so it’s a tough situation.

    Jt :
    You know, I think this is the real underlying question. Not one which I have an answer to either. Though on the other hand, if DOJ did come in and conducted a thorough investigation and found that there WASN’T any pattern of brutality and corruption, no harm done, right?

    1. I’m not sure you’re right about that. This group might be more fairminded then you give us credit for. We’ve seen quite a lot of allegations come out against FPD. There’s a pretty long list of grievances about OCDA, OK Weekly has been covering them intensively for years. The DOJ though seems to take investigating law enforcement agencies pretty seriously. They don’t do that many of those investigations but when they do they seem comprehensive, and NOT cover-ups.

  20. Anonymous :Are you still trying disconnect “kicking to the curb” from “denying entrance to our house”?
    Good luck with that.

    Yes I am, I treat my dog better than he did his poor mentally ill fragil son.

    That is OK with you? Poor guy lost any hope of help and family. Thank is OK with you? Really?

    1. TIL Ron Thomas pounded his son’s face into ground causing death.

      Thanks for clearing that up SAVE the Fullerton Cops.

  21. Yeah, she’s a real genius, isn’t she? I wonder where she did her Rhodes Scholarship…

    I guess if you believe her last post, though, Kelly died because he “lost any hope for help.” In other words, I guess his heart just gave out from sadness and the massive physical injuries — broken bones, internal bleeding, oxygen deprivation — were merely incidental to his death.

    “Thank is OK with you?” — truly the sentence of a sharp mind….

    1. Also the comparison of a pet to a mentally ill adult is staggering. “Fragil” is also a word of the sharp-minded.

    2. Save us and anon-you guys are hilarious!!! I have, and always will judge a person’s intelligence by how they write and SPELL!!!!! So SAVE FULLERTON COPS level of intelligence is quite obvious!!!!! It’s just a shame she won’t SHUT UP!!!!! But you guys beat me to it. LMAO:)

  22. Chief Sellers was gone when the Nam case came to light. In thoses ono-on-one meetings he jad with all of us when he got hired – one thing he told every one of us was “screw up & you’ll be held accountable. Lie about ANYTHING and I’ll fire you”. EVERONE knows his position on that. I have no doubt his conditiion is valid – he probably ignored it until now.

    We were doing really good under his command – but because of the actions (that we also cannot understand) 1-2 officers, the department loses a great Chief – and the Chief a great career. Does anyone else here see anything wrong with picture?

    1. No he wasn’t. The trial was in November. That’s when the case was lost and everyone involved knew about the issues in the testimony and the video. It came out in trial. Unless it just ended and the DA and judge never said anything? I can’t imagine that. Never know I guess.

      1. The Mam case was really quite strange. Mam’s attorneys didn’t hesitate to make their outrage abot what they viewed as perjury by the officers known. After the case was over, what happened? We have no knowledge of public statements about the perjury by anybody but Mam’s lawyers – nothing by the judge, nothing by the DA, nothing by FPD at the time as far as we know. That is why I’m wondering if there were any internal discussions or personnel actions that occured after the case ended. If I understand everybody correctly, shouldn’t it have been the DA’s office who said, wait a minute, these officers just lied under oath, let’s at least investigate whether charges should be filed? Shouldn’t FPD have done some sort of internal affairs investigation of what happened at that time? Even after the video went viral on youtube, there was no reaction until Mam teamed up with Ron Thomas and Mardirossian.

        To the public, this looks bad – like CYA mode is in full effect.

        The Kelly Thomas beating itself immediately just suggests “the few bad apples” scenario. Its once you add the reaction (or lack thereof) of the FPD and City Council to the case, and then consider the Mam case as well that I think the public began to think, wait…. pattern…. cover-up….. conspiracy.

        I am keeping an open mind as much as I can. But an open mind in this context is going to include really serious questions about whether the FPD failed to discipline and/or prosecute its own officers for really serious issues, including brutality, beatings, false arrest, perjury, etc.

    2. Sellers must have forgotten to add “unless I am vacation” to the “screw up and you’ll be held accountable” speech.

  23. Yes, many people see a lot wrong with the FPD picture, most notably the family and friends of Kelly Thomas.

    By the way, the Mam case PREceded the Kelly Thomas murder, so those “one-on-one conversations” Chief S had with all of you fell on quite a few pairs of “deaf ears.”

    The Mam case “came to light,” thankfully, only because there was videotape evidence documenting the blatant lies of multiple (not 1 or 2) FPD officers, both in written reports and their court testimony. (I know this is such a common practice that it has led to a new word in the English language — testiLying — but thank God for the video or Mr. Mam would be sitting in jail right now.)

    I appreciate the loyalty you obviously feel towards this man, but I only wonder if he was such a great LEADER, where was his leadership, his voice, after these events? I sure never heard it (the silence was DEAFENING) …

    1. Where was Seller’s ‘leadership’ between the night of Kelly Thomas’ death and the day the six officers were given a paid vacation?

      1. xer, there is no leadership at FPD, therefore, one must conclude that lack of leadership is going to reverse itself during an incident like Kelly’s murder? No leadership now, not ever!

  24. I agree 100%.

    I have my thoughts about it having trained cops, been in life or death fights, and shootings. I try my hardest to only rely on the facts at this point but yes, it could very well be criminal even with the fight. We will see.

    I hope that if a pattern of abuse and corruption is uncovered that everyone involved is indicted. I have seen the two cases thus far so I’m not going to assume there is a never ending pattern. If there was I think it would have come out earlier and been impossible to coverup. Especially with people like Tony in town.

    I still hope it’s just the two cases and Fullerton can move on. A department and city of corruption and abuse would not be good for the future of the city. 2 incidents and an investigation, fresh start, the city could recover and benefit from everything going on. Time will tell.

    If there really is a failure on the part of the DA or a pattern, now is when it will be found. If so, the Feds will handle business. People mention the failure to charge cops in the OC. I’m not sure that’s a good measuring stick. I would like to see a comparison of all the cops charged with a crime in the OC, LA, Riverside, and San Berdu counties in the last 10 years. If OC really is 0 and the others are 10-20-30, then that would be something to spark big time interest.

    Concerned :
    You know, Cakes, I’ve had this discussion with several acquaintences in law enforcement in the area and they all agree that Fullerton (like Newport Beach) is like it’s own little banana republic where the PD operates on its own terms, with the backing of the good ole’ boys at City Hall (lots of former Blue in those hallowed halls), totally unconcerned about the blowback of all of this because they have gotten away with so much in the past. These are law enforcement folks in other local municipalities, the Sherriff and federal law enforcement who have made these comments to me. To a person, they have all agreed that the actions of the officers involved, but more importantly, the department and the City in failing to appreciate the enormity of the situation, have made it harder for law enforcement in general to do its job in the immediate area. I’ve likened it elsewhere to the Bay Area, where every cop in uniform blanches at the actions of the cowboys in the BART police, because every person they encounter on the streets gives them hell about the actions of another agency. Fortunately, this has restored my faith that (outside of the trolls and FPD shills commenting here) wider reaction by law enforcement to this event has been appropriate. Yes, most of them were initially hesitant to rush to judgment. These are folks who know the realities that law enforcement face on the ground on any given day. But after all of the falsehoods, the footdragging and the manuevering by the department and its lackeys, even they have come to admit that this entire situation is a black eye on their profession. A little damage control could have gone a long way. But nobody in the City of Fullerton seemed to think it was neccessary. And that seems pretty telling. Nobody I’ve spoken with in law enforcement seems to doubt the claims that the FPD has shown a pattern of corruption and brutality. Two of them seemed to speak from personal experience about the atmosphere of being above reproach in the FPD. Again, when you’ve got a council and mayor covering for you, why wouldn’t you feel above the law? Then, when the DA engages in the same footdragging and has close ties himself with some in the department, he casts a pall of suspicion above his own office. I know that the autopsy falls on the OCSD. Despite their own problems (proven and alleged), the attitude I’ve gotten from personnel I know in the Sherriff is that the FPD takes outrage to a whole new level. But other people start to wonder if Code Blue also wears Sherriff’s Green when it is taking as long to get an autospy report as it has to get the DA or anyone else supposedly investigating the matter to address the incident in a frank and forthright manner. According to the Fed I know, the FBI would most certainly take such allegations seriously. I’m admittedly perplexed by the statement that the FBI is awaiting the DA’s conclusions (especially given some of the heat that T-Rack’s office has had around its neck). Maybe the feds want to know if the corruption extends to the DA, as well. I tend to doubt that the feds are going to take the DA’s findings as gospel, especially if there is a total whitewash. Whether there is evidence of a pattern of these abuses will remain to be seen. People I’ve spoken to in law enforcement seem to have confirmed that it is a well known fact that Fullerton is a whole different beast. I concede, that and a buck fiddy will get you a cup of coffee. But I’m not so convinced that these guys are walking as straight of a line as you are. One telling fact: aside from the purported FPD insider who called KFI, not one single person from the FPD has come forward to denounce what has happened or even shed light on the incident or what seems to be an ensuing cover up. Seems to confirm the allegations that the Department enforces a strict policy of policing itself and forbidding any sort of whistle-blowing — even in the wake of something as depolrable as this.

    1. The problem with 2 incidents and a fresh start and moving on is that the department and the City have lost the public’s trust. The failure to take this matter seriously (not to mention the fact that this whole shitstorm very, very nearly got swept under the rug) has damaged both irreparably. Every day that passes with crap like outright lies to the media, Chief taking his golden parachute, Council and Mayor sitting idly by, it starts to seem more and more like nobody gives a damn and less and less like we are awaiting a full investigation. Downplaying the seriousness of injuries. Taking thinly veiled swipes at Ron Kelly. Refusing to even entertain the possibility that this department has rotted from the iside out. Little things which, in the totality of the circumstances, do little to reassure an outraged and suspicious public. The Mam case and the acknowledgement that the officers viewed the tape while writing their reports have only thrown gasoline on the fire. The DA and the City’s unequivocal refusal to make the tape public are only worsening the situation. When nobody is talking, the Department and the City are being tried in the court of public opinion. Until affirmative steps are taken to address the seriousness of the sitaution, to assure the public that justice will be done and to ensure that this kind of thing does not happen again in the future, nobody is going to believe that Fullerton can just move on. So far, nobody seems to have the intestinal fortitude to admit that there are serious flaws and that policy and procedure changes are needed. The citizens of Fullerton aren’t going to buy that there was an investigation and maybe 2 cops go down (with 4 reprimands) and all is Polyanna again. I grew up in Fullerton. Flattened many a penny on the train tracks in the same depot where this went down. I want to see Fullerton recover from this as much as anyone. I would like the public to feel safe from the police again. Unfortunately, nothing the bumbling numbskulls at the City have done so far has made me very optimistic. Given their track record, it might just take something substantial like a dismantling from the top down to restore the public’s faith. Sure, you can say — “let’s wait to see what the investigation uncovers.” But so far, the most damning evidence has come from sources other than the officials who are supposedly handling the matter. And while they need time to conduct a thorough investigation, a very weary and mistrusting public can be forgiven for assuming they are holding back because the evidence is less than exculpatory.

      1. I agree.

        I think the problem is two fold. One is the restrictions put on any communication to the public on the incident by the DA. The PD and City has no information. The DA does. So no word makes it sound like the city doesn’t care. They do and they want it over.

        I’ve also seen several cities go from zero credibility and a negative relationship with the community to a great one with a new fresh leader. It’s nice to see. So it is possible. Just have to get both sides with an open mind to change, meetings, and confidence on both sides that they have the good of the community as the number one priority.

      2. Concerned, I really like your posts in this thread. Good rational hard-headed thinking.

        This:” Downplaying the seriousness of injuries. Taking thinly veiled swipes at Ron Kelly. Refusing to even entertain the possibility that this department has rotted from the iside out.” …sounds like a litany of posts by, Free Spirit My Ass, Reality IS, Fullerton Cakes Reality, or whatever else this clown wants to call itself. S/he has done NOTHING except try and downplay Kelly’s injuries, blame Kelly for his own death, excuse the FPD and specifically the FPD 6, and attack Kelly’s person/illness/reputation/etc., the Thomas family in general and Ron Thomas specifically. S/he is, imho, a pathological liar and sociopath pretending to be a realist. My suggestion is believe nothing this fool says, and possibly even the opposite of what it says. Just my 2 cents.

        Again, your posts are read appreciatively

          1. Too bad the same thing can’t be said about you. You and your pals are as close to the DEVIL as I have ever seen.

            Xer is absolutely correct. You and your buddies and sycophants have been bashing and defaming Kelly and his family for weeks.

            Now, you are making a very transparent, pathetic attempt at PR work for the FPD.

            Maybe the press conference got to you? Maybe you finally realized that the evidence is not going to be so easily covered up this time? Maybe you realized that the jig is up?

            You and your pals are slimy, disgusting and not to be trusted by anyone who values their life.

            Now, whenever I see two or three cop cars on the side of the road, “talking” to someone, I drive around the block three or four times to make sure the cops aren’t pouring “Betadine” all over someone’s body. Or, I just park my car nearby and keep my video camera at the ready.

            Do you really think your PR work is going to make me trust you? If so, think again.

    2. Cakes, one error in your way of thinking, beating Kelly did not involve a life and death situation for any of you clowns!

  25. Sellers is a joke, he has been a joke since he was a sgt at La Palma pd years ago. We call him crusty the clown, because that’s what he looks like in uniform!

  26. I was there. It was a great feeling to be there among people I dont even know and to all be united on a single issue. It was very cathartic and has lifted my spirits to see so many people standing up for the least among us.

  27. Concerned :One telling fact: aside from the purported FPD insider who called KFI, not one single person from the FPD has come forward to denounce what has happened or even shed light on the incident or what seems to be an ensuing cover up. Seems to confirm the allegations that the Department enforces a strict policy of policing itself and forbidding any sort of whistle-blowing — even in the wake of something as depolrable as this.

    Great post and good discussion.

    There is also the letter from the anonymous officer to the Fullerton Observer reposted earlier. I think that if either this officer and/or the one who called in to KFI would go public we would be able to better ascertain whether we are looking at a “few bad apples” scenario or an institutional corruption scenario, or something in between.

    There have been some very interesting comments posted on FFFF weeks back about whistleblowers for the PD and the risks to career, liberty, and even life they may face. It seems to me that the most important think that Capt. Hamilton, the FPD brass and the City Council could convey is that any whistleblowers coming forward with information about wrongdoing by personnel in the department were going to be protected. However, with my limited knowledge of the actual day-to-day culture of law enforcment agencies I don’t know likely possible that is, and even if stated publically as city and PD policy, to what extent whistleblower protection could really be provided.

    1. “It seems to me that the most important think that Capt. Hamilton, the FPD brass and the City Council could convey is that any whistleblowers coming forward with information about wrongdoing by personnel in the department were going to be protected”

      Won’t happen. hamilton has been there 30+ years. Undoubtedly part of the culture of corruption.

      And of course the city manager is just a helpless weenie.

  28. It is going to take many years for the people of Fullerton to trust the FPD and their politicians again. The people can’t be manipulated into trusting their leaders and police because this trust has to be earned. Fullerton is in a very sorry state right now.

  29. I agree with Meadow. Well said. Change is necessary. And building back that trust might take a whole lot of effort. And without taking advantage of the situation with true intention to do some good to the people attitude and true to the word would be nice. And also a great start. Yes a simple apology and transparency from the Department and the wrong doers would have got them into a better position than angering the public, like the way they did. Still it’s not too late to start.

  30. Nope. Just hangin out. No PR. Press conference did nothing. Same ol’ thing. Same ol’ me. Same ol’ facts. Same ol’ story.

    Love you though.

    cite=”#commentbody-53275″>
    Justice for ALL :
    Too bad the same thing can’t be said about you. You and your pals are as close to the DEVIL as I have ever seen.
    Xer is absolutely correct. You and your buddies and sycophants have been bashing and defaming Kelly and his family for weeks.
    Now, you are making a very transparent, pathetic attempt at PR work for the FPD.
    Maybe the press conference got to you? Maybe you finally realized that the evidence is not going to be so easily covered up this time? Maybe you realized that the jig is up?
    You and your pals are slimy, disgusting and not to be trusted by anyone who values their life.
    Now, whenever I see two or three cop cars on the side of the road, “talking” to someone, I drive around the block three or four times to make sure the cops aren’t pouring “Betadine” all over someone’s body. Or, I just park my car nearby and keep my video camera at the ready.
    Do you really think your PR work is going to make me trust you? If so, think again.

    1. You monsters in blue have a very sadistic way of showing people that you “love” them.

      Actually, I believe that you got your words mixed up. I think that what you meant to say was that you would “murder me though”, if you ever got the chance. I don’t believe you are capable of love.

      Murder, noun

      1.the unlawful and malicious or premeditated killing of one human being by another; also, any killing done while committing some other felony, as rape or robbery

  31. Just a fact: On August 22, 2011 mother named Sonia Hermosillo threw his son in a parking lot since then boy on life support at UC Irvine Med. Center. The same day she was arrested and charged. Kelly Thomas was beatten to death by the cops on July 5, 2011….more than two months still OCDA can not determine the cause of death and no charges filed???? Is the OCDA having dementia ????Or there job in to keep killer cops off the hook? Is this the society they want their family to be in, living in a killer cops society??? Wake up peole……time to unite and fight back against the corrupted system.

  32. We need to start recalling officials that are trying to cover up this case, even Tony Rackauckas’ office. We the people can’t let the D.A. office or any one that wants to stop this case from moving forward. We have to show these people that we have the power to remove them from there jobs. We need honest and trusted public servants.

  33. SAVE the Fullerton Cops :
    Really ??? wandering the streets right now….
    SAD

    As opposed to dead, yes, that was his life and he should still be living it. It may not have been societies idea of a good life, but it was his and that is how he ‘chose’ to live it. How do you know he didn’t have moments of joy and peace? Regardless of his condition he may have had more than someone who hates their job and the bills they are buried under. Kelly may have had more peace, contentment and gratitude for his simple life than most are aware of. It’s not possessions, status or appearance that equates a good life.

    Of course he may have been suffering as well, I don’t doubt that his life was hard, but I think he was living the life that worked best for him and who is anyone to take that away?

  34. Orange County District Attorney Office and its cronies are snakes guarding hen house.
    Get rid of these snakes and vote your heart out.

  35. Best way to fight back is to VOTE.

    Politicians are in office most of the time because of the lack of voter turnout. If you did not vote, you have no say in this. That goes for everyone of you complaining about the DA. Go register to vote, check out the politicians and learn what they stand for and against and make your choice accordingly.

    DA R. is in there because he was voted in and now you have to live with it, good or bad.

    1. OR THE ELECTED OFFICIAL IS SO CORRUPT THAT NO ONE WILL RUN AGAINST HIM? LIKE LEE BACA? PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO RUN AGAINST HIM OUT OF FEAR OF RETALIATION.
      BACA IS A KOOK AND A CROOK. INVOLVED IN KISSING MUSLIMS ASS AND THAT CRAZY SO CALLED RELIGION SCIENTOLOGY! DO WE WANT THIS? TERM LIMITS IS HOW YOU GET RID OF THEM!

  36. Ms. Sonia Hermosillo ADMITTED that she threw her baby off the parking structure. Big difference when it comes to filing charges.

  37. Jaynbond 9/9/11

    Are you being impersonated? I really believe that you are, maybe by some twisted teen looking to agitate. I agree 100% with your above post. Unfortunately the majority of citizens in Fullerton and the country are apathetic right now. Maybe they’re too preoccupied with keeping their jobs, feeding the kids, paying the rent/mortage, etc? A lot of people seem to be just like lemmings, lead them off of a cliff and they’ll just follow. Fullertonions need to be rallied, and fast, to action and to exert their collective will. Inaction can cause certain sinister elements to fill the void and take control. Seems like this has already happened in OC and Fullerton.

  38. THERE IS A REALIZATION WE MUST COME TO ABOUT KELLY. IT WOULD NOT MATTER IF HE SURVIVED THE BRUTAL BEATING OR NOT, HIS BODY SUSTAINED SO MUCH DAMAGE TO IT, HE WOULD NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN.

    IT IS A TENDER MERCY THAT GOD TOOK HIM TO HEAVEN.

    THROUGH KELLY WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

  39. fedupwithmorons: “IT IS A TENDER MERCY THAT GOD TOOK HIM TO HEAVEN.”

    That is probably what the cops who killed him were thinking, “He’s not happy, let’s send him to heaven where he will be with angels and off the street. God said to me in a dream last night that I should put all the homeless people in heaven cos they’re not happy.” –Yeah.

    It’s that kind of thinking fedup, that allows people to feel justified in killing another. There was no mercy involved at all with Kelly. It was brutal and there is no justifying it and he should be alive right now without head injuries.

  40. Having done some research on his injuries, Kelly if he had survived, would never have a quality of life. He’d have so many surgeries, some of them look nearly impossible to do, would have caused him further long term health issues. The other mercy is, that Kelly is no longer being tortured by his mental disease or lifestyle. There was nothing said about the cops being merciful. Don’t read into things!

  41. Fedupwithmorons :
    Having done some research on his injuries, Kelly if he had survived, would never have a quality of life. He’d have so many surgeries, some of them look nearly impossible to do, would have caused him further long term health issues. The other mercy is, that Kelly is no longer being tortured by his mental disease or lifestyle. There was nothing said about the cops being merciful. Don’t read into things!

    You did it again fedup right here: “The other mercy is, that Kelly is no longer being tortured by his mental disease or lifestyle.”

    So, by your thinking, anyone who is not up to societies standards of living should be put out of their misery. That is a sick way to justify murdering someone.

    The cops who killed Kelly might be justifying what they did to him with that exact same thinking. It is dangerous.

    His may not have been societies idea of a good life, but it was his and that is how he ‘chose’ to live it. How do you know he didn’t have moments of joy and peace? Regardless of his condition he may have had more than someone who hates their job and the bills they are buried under. Kelly may have had more peace, contentment and gratitude for his simple life than most are aware of. It’s not possessions, status or appearance that equates a good life.

    Of course he may have been suffering as well, I don’t doubt that his life was hard, but I think he was living the life that worked best for him and who is anyone to take that away?

    Kelly should be alive, living his life the way he was before he was beaten to death, period.

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