Where did the info about the scratch ticket come from? This is new, have not heard about this until now. I think this is very important as it must come from someone who witnessed the period of time right before the beating started. Or perhaps this bit of info came from someone inside FPD? Read on another Fullerton’s Future blog that one of the murders, Cyclops I believe, was overheard bragging about Kelley’s beating in the FPD locker room. May be good news as there are persons in FPD with integrity and new revelations may follow. By the way, has there been follow up regarding the fact that Cyclops was on disability from LAPD and was hired at FPD. Did he recieve psychological counseling after his injury? Was he given pre-employment psychological testing when he applied at FPD, or was he just grandfathered in? If he was deemed unfit for service in the LAPD, was it just because he had only one eye? I also read on Fullerton’s Future blog that McKinley was ex LAPD, did this councilman grease the way for Cyclops to get in the FPD?
THE THING IS, THEY COULDN’T PROVE HE STOLE IT, AND FURTHER MORE THEY HAD NO ONE REPORTING KELLY STOLE ANYTHING FROM ANYBODY! NO PROBABLE CAUSE! LOTTERY TICKETS GET DISCARDED EVERY SINGLE DAY, CAN’T THESE MORONIC COPS THINK OUTSIDE OF THEIR LIMITED BOXES?
9c1- as a medical professional (not bragging trying to make a point) I promise you a shot to the head that results in a lose of an eye results in some brain damage, not sure of the amount but there is some residual deficits in that area
contact these men to get them to help in exposing http://anonops.blogspot.com/
District Attorney Tony Rackauckas for fifteen years of never charging a dirty cop for being dirty
I’m sure there are more, but these three relatively recent excessive force cases put the lie to that claim. The fact of the matter is, as the OC Weekly’s Scott Moxley put it so well, “Orange County juries have a long, pathetic history of siding with cops, even obviously dirty ones.”
It’s unfortunate that this blog perpetuates the myth that the OC DA’s office has never sought to prosecute and convict any officers of excessive force in 15 years, because they have, and if one looks at the DA’s history with these cases, how difficult it is to get a conviction due to lying cop/witnesses and sympathetic-to-law enforcement juries, it is easy to understand why the DA’s investigation in the Thomas murder is taking so long.
The DA has to build a case against the Fullerton officers that is 100% independent of cop/witness testimony. That means he needs a favorable to the prosecution autopsy report and a video that will knock the socks off the jury. At the moment he’s publicly pressuring the the coroner and keeping the video under wraps. If he’s smart, and he is, the first time the jury will see the video will be just before they leave the courtroom to begin deliberations.
Is it legal for someone to collect disability from one job while at the same time working the same type of job? It seems to be plain common sense that there is something wrong here. In my line of work if I had a physically disabiling injury and was judged not to be fit to continue in that line of work by a physician then that would be final. I know it will come out in court, may be in a year or two, but something really stinks about this. What makes the hiring standards so different in FPD from those in LAPD. Cicinelli IS disabled. Then why is he in the FPD? Patronage maybe?
Yes. Some people have numerous pensions. The hiring agency is the only obstacle. As long as they approve, it’s legal to work and get the pension. He was only at LAPD about a year so it’s probably not a ton.
PERS does not generally allow sworn members (police, fire, etc.) on disability retirement from one agency to work in the same capacity for another PERS agency. However, LAPD (LA City) has its own retirement system, so that may not be applicable.
PERS disability retired sworn members can return to PERS employment in a civilian capacity, but I think they have to give up their disability retirement for the duration of the new PERS employment (not sure, it’s been a few years since I was involved with that). There may also be a difference between part-time and full-time employment.
They’re corrupt and they will walk away with their pensions at most. The D A has great political expectations. The D A wants the union vote.
Not enuff eveidence to make a case.
The LAPD is supposed to have pensioned Ofc Cincinelli off with a 70% pension. ‘If’ he was still getting the LAPD pension; in addition to his FPD salary, which itself includes a second pension, he must be about the highest paid street officer on the FPD, or any other Dept. Even if he cashed out LAPD’s pension in lieu of regular payments; he should still be quite well off, because in addition to his FPD salary, he would also be getting the interest, dividends and capital gains from the investments from the pension cash out. When he was hired by the FPD he must have been laughing … all the way to the bank.
You might be right, regular payments could be tax free – for life. But even if he cashed out the pension, the lump sum should have been enough, in theory, to last the rest of his annuitized (average) life span – assuming average rates of return. Like I said, when the FPD hired him he must have been laughing – all the way to the bank.
I worked many years ago in a 900 bed veterans hospital with a lot of returning vietnam vets. They didn’t even have PTSD as a classifiable diagnosis then. I can tell you some of these guys had a very rough time state side. Though I am not a diagnostician, I would think that Cincinelli would be at severe risk for PTSD owing to the intense physical and psychological trauma he endured from being shot in the face. I had seen men having flash backs and it was very disturbing to witness. I have read that a portion of our veterans who are homeless may suffer from untreated PTSD. My point is why weren’t the standards of the LAPD on par with those of the FPD. What were the special considerations extended to Cincinelli which should have prevented any other applicant from being hired? Have these special considerations been extended to others on the FPD? Are the hiring practices at FPD legal and fair?
Meadow Muffin
I think the FPD was trying to nice when they hired Cicinelli, since he had been tragically shot in the eye after only 3 weeks on the LAPD. But no good deed goes un-punished. I actually feel bad for him myself. I don’t know about his psych state, which could have been fine. But he shouldn’t have been a street ofc, if not just because his depth perception could impair his markmanship and other skills. The LAPD or FPD could have hired him for a desk position, but they didn’t.
I was talking to someone this evening who used to be a cop and he said he’s trying his best to NOT follow this, but when I told him about Jay Cicinelli, he said, “What?????” He was shocked too that someone who lost one eye would be hired on with another pd.
Great video. I personally think there WILL BE charges brought forth.
#33 John
If LAPD did not reassign him to a desk job then they must have had a compelling reason not to do so. Perhaps it was something to do with his being in his probationary period, and/or not having a position opened to which he could be reassigned. FPD did hire him, obviously not for a desk job, but for street duty. Then there must have either been some communication problem between LAPD and FPD, or FPD made a serious misjudgement. Or perhaps there may be another reason why he was hired at FPD? I think that FPD would have required a pre employment physical, during which the fact that he had one eye should have prevented him from being hired. One question would be that the the physical was waived, or that its recommendation was over ridden. In either of these two possibilites someone made this executive decision. I question who made the decision, and are they competent to be in their position, and should that person be dismissed. This may seem like hair splitting, but I believe that these are some very serious questions that will eventually need to be answered.
Yes, charges should be brought because excessive force. When I said I felt sorry for Cicinelli I meant because he got shot in the eye after only three weeks on the LAPD. It’s pretty obvious at least one, or two, of the officers has a big problem (likely Cicinelli and ‘maybe’ his partner) for excessive force, as do the police chief and the city counsel for an obvious cover-up. If it hadn’t been for the Youtube video where you can hear Terry crying out “Dad, Dad, Dad” this wouldn’t have gone viral and they would have buried this along with Terry. Word of caution, the names of the other officers have been published from here to kingdom come, but we do not yet know what they did wrong, IF anything at all. So do not pre-judge the ‘Fullerton Six’ because we do not yet know what they were told when they arrived at they scene. Maybe when they arrived the officer(s) already there lied and said Terry attacked them. And maybe they did do something wrong, but we don’t know, yet.
John on September 4, 2011
“Yes, charges should be brought… So do not pre-judge the ‘Fullerton Six’ because we do not yet know what they were told when they arrived at they scene. Maybe when they arrived the officer(s) already there lied and said [Kelly] attacked them. And maybe they did do something wrong, but we don’t know, yet.”
John, what difference if the first cops there claimed Kelly attacked them? It takes 6 full-sized trained armed cops to subdue a guy face down on the ground already pinned by cops sitting on top of him by beating him into a coma and asphyxiating him by crushing his face and windpipe? The people on the bus video said the cops were all beating on Kelly. Despite what the trolls here want you to believe, that is what witnesses first said after seeing the beatdown.
Is basing an opinion on video and eye-witness testimony ‘pre-judging?’ It really takes a stretch to believe all six are not culpable. Even if all they did was stand and watch the others commit murder, they are still complicit.
If all you do is drive the getaway car in a robbery in which someone is killed, you are still considered guilty of MURDER by the Law. Oh, or do the same laws that apply to the rest of America not apply to cops?
Meadow Muffin,
We’re not that far apart. Yes, he should not have been a street ofc, if not just because of his eye. Yes, there should be an investigation about how he got hired on with the FPD as a street ofc with a bad eye. Maybe they broke their own rules because they felt sorry for him because of what happened at the LAPD? That really could be the reason, but they’ll never admitt it. But this is only a side show because it is not relevant toward the – Exessive Use Of Force.
I don’t want to play the devil’s advocate, John, but this is a part of the big picture not a “side show”. A circus and the savage beating of a 135lb man by 6 police officers on a busy street, in front of over 80 witnesses while being video’d, has nothing to do with a form of entertainment. This lack of basic hiring practices points to an organization which bends the rules. And an organization that does do so is doing it without appropriate oversight. And this oversight should have been carried out by those who run Fullerton. It seems that this tendency to not follow the rules has permeated the government of Fullerton, and its police department. Hiring Cincinelli was a real misjudgement. Believe me I understand that this is about excessive force. I have worked in healthcare for almost thirty years. I have seen some pretty horrendous things. I have an iron stomach, could literally eat a ham sandwich while watching a leg amputation. But when I saw that photo of Kelly in his hospital bed it actually made me nauseated, and very irate. Kelly looked like someone who had run afoul of Idi Amin in Uganda, or had protested against the Shah in Iran ,and paid with his life. That Dr. Jones could actually intimate in an interview that Kelly’s injuries weren’t that bad and that he had seen worse is very chilling. This coming from a “healer” is most disturbing. This man’s judgement is very questionable. That the DA, city government,and FPD went into immediate “cover your ass” mode says to me that the whole system is corrupt. That the city offered Ken Thomas $900,000 is more indicative of guilt than anything else.This kind of brutality goes on in uncivilized countries, not in America. Well obviously it does happen here, and though I live 3,000 miles away, as an American it really pisses me off. Cincinelli was witnessed as a primary participant in the murder of Kelly Thomas, and I know, it will all come out in the trial. But over 80 people witnessed the beating, a good percentage of these witnesses pointed out Cincinelli as a prime participant. An anonymous source in the FPD stated that Cincinelli actually bragged about the Kelly beating in the FPD locker room. Per Dr. Ott, the psychiatrist this could be construed as pathological behaviour.This leak from FPD means that one of his own, someone with integrity and empathy, turned on him. There is hope that there are others in the system like this anonymous leaker who will stand up and testify. I realize that the basic point here is justice for Kelly.
FYI: Dr. Ott was a joke by one of the FFFF crew (in my expressed opinion it was a mistake, but it was intended as humor). However, there are some very knowledgeable people here who have posted links and c/p’s about sociopaths and psychopaths. So, I still loved your post. Oh, my stomach has never been as strong as yours (a HAM sandwich?), so imagine how much tougher it is for those of us without your strength to look at Kelly’s hospital picture. (shudder)
Anonymous on September 4, 2011
IMHO, the worst rule that was broken was by the person that let them put badges on the next day.
That was the cowardly Chief Sellers, no?
The buck stops where? McKinley sure sold Sellers out quick. I still think that was pre-planned for after Sellers retired on his ‘medical’ leave. He needs to be sued in civil court for every penny of that pension.
XER is right on target the family needs to sue sellers and possibly the attorney who later denied publicy that he was not involved in attempt to silence Mr. Thomas.
THE POLICE LAWYER NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT UP ON CHARGES OF LYING AND CONSPIRACY TO COVER UP A CAPITAL CRIME. GO AFTER HIS LICENSE TO PRACTICE LAW IN CALIFORNIA.
You seem to be assuming Cincinelli was in some way not psychologically fit when first hired by the FPD. So far, no one has said this was the case … when he was first hired. There are ‘Rumors’ that after being hired some officers thought he was to heavy handed, and there are the rumors that he was bragging about how rough he was with Terry immediately after the altercation occurred – both should be investigated. For the record, I have personal experience that the FPD can be unnecessarily heavy handed. Any way, with only one good eye Cincinelli should have been behind a desk, not in the field with a gun and driving a patrol car. See my prior comments about how he likely made so much from his LAPD pension he could have spent the rest of his life sipping a Corona in Cancun, MX rather than hassling homeless people in Fullerton, CA. You are spot on about the cover-up and that should be a whole separate investigation. Thank you for mentioning the potential for FPD officers with integrity and empathy – see my prior observations about the injustice of pre-judging the “Fullerton Six”. Who is Dr. Ott? I live here in Fullerton and even bought Terry food a couple times. You live 3,000 miles away? Geez !!!
Nice job FFFF!!! After all, we as citizens are NOT getting any truths thusfar from any officials. So far it has been either lies, defensive remarks towards FPD6 or plain old ‘guilty’ silence. This rendition seems to depict what concievably happened that night. My favorite part was, “Hey DA Tony, Do you think this video is UNFAIR or INNACCURATE? PROVE IT!
Way to send it home FFFF. Justice is on it’s way.
When Jay was shot, he was promised he would keep his job, would be put back on duty, and to only worry about getting healthy again. When he was told he was not going to be kept on, I have a feeling LAPD pulled strings to get him hired on another department. I say this because with any serious injury, such as he sustained, officers MUST STILL meet P.O.S.T. ( Peace Officers Standards and Training) requirements. Jay’s injury left him IN-ELIGIBLE to continue in law enforcement, as he no longer had 20/20, ( or correctable) vision! So, for accepting Jay on their dept., in CLEAR violation of POST standards, FPD left themselves open to MASSIVE liabilities. This, coupled with a most likely untreated PTSD ailment, and you have a dangerous element, one who has the actual power of life and death, operating amonst the citizenry.
Respectfully Submitted.
“…for accepting Jay on their dept., in CLEAR violation of POST standards, FPD left themselves open to MASSIVE liabilities, …..This, coupled with a most likely untreated PTSD ailment, and you have a dangerous element, one who has the actual POWER of LIFE and DEATH, operating amonst the citizenry.”
Wow!!! More violations of policies and standards, 9c1 to throw into their 3-ringed circus of scandal. From your experience, do you think some of these city police, as well as local sheriff depts. run their own show? IE. Make up their own policies and procedures and modify (lie) as needed for various situations?
To be clear, local agencies are responsible for developing medical screening procedures and criteria based on their officer’s duties, demands, and working conditions. And also, use of the POST Medical Screening Manual is discretionary. So to cite ‘violations’ of POST standards might be somewhat overstating the case against the FPD’s hiring of Jay Cicinelli.
Especially when you consider that in Doane v. City of Omaha, the Omaha PD was actually ORDERED to rehire Officer Doane after he was let go due to losing an eye to glaucoma. The court found that:
“Doane made the requisite showing that his disability does not prevent him from performing the essential functions of the job…. While the medical experts all agreed that Doane’s peripheral vision is limited, the medical experts also testified that Doane has made adjustments that compensate for his limited peripheral vision… Doane demonstrated that the city’s job description does not specifically require binocular vision.”
The court further found that “A reasonable jury could have concluded that Doane could perform the essential functions of the job, and thus Doane sufficiently satisfied his burden to demonstrate that he was qualified for the job.”
I think our problem with Jay Cicinelli should be that he apparently participated in the murderous beatdown of Kelly Thomas, not that he has just one functioning eye.
As far as the Thomas killing, yes. But of course the broader point is that Cicinelli may not have belonged in uniform at all. That will be an issue for Mr. Mardirossian.
The question of hiring cops of dubious physical abilities as a favor for a friend goes to the misplaced loyalties and judgment of Pat McKinley who ran the department for 16 years and will be the subject of a recall.
More accurately, for the jury. If it get to that point, Mardirossian will try to make much hay out of Cicinelli’s minor disability, while the defense will no doubt cite his many years as a successful officer, his qualifications for the job, as well as the precedent set in Doane v. City of Omaha. As for the PTSD issue, that will be a non-starter as I’m sure Cicinelli had to pass his psych evals, which I’m sure will be completely documented. And lets not forget, Officer Cicinelli is likely to be on the receiving end of a sympathetic OC jury with regard to his injury and his ‘courage in returning to police work’ and blah blah blah.
“The question of hiring cops of dubious physical abilities as a favor for a friend goes to the misplaced loyalties and judgment of Pat McKinley…”
I suppose so, and anything goes in a recall, as opposed to in court. Still, at this point I don’t think the case for Cicinelli having “dubious physical abilities” is a strong one at all. Hopefully Fullertonians are as fed up with the three blind mice as the FFF denizens.
I doubt the actual video well ever be made public, at least in its entirety. All it takes is a Judge on the take to seal it and that Judge can make up ANY reason to keep it under lock and key.
they have to give it up or face a default judgment in the civil trial as well as contempt. the plaintiffs in the civil suit should have a copy now or soon. its not national security. they did keep a tape of 6 cops beating a suspect sealed in Houston but the plaintiff cannot be stopped from releasng it
The video will be the star, blockbuster “witness” at trial. The OC DA might not be popular here, but he’s no dummy: Expect prosecutors to make sure the first time the jury sees the video is just prior to the beginning of their deliberations.
Only an idiot with no concern for justice for Kelly Thomas would want the video released now, and give the potential jurors a year or more to get over what they saw, and for it to lose much of its impact.
I’ve been thinking the same St. Louie. The system would not want the masses of the general public to be made aware of the of morbid, saddistic actions and behaviours of our folks in badge and uniform. Assuming you are residing in St. Louis, how long have you known about this case?
I’ve followed the Kelly Thomas story since early August. I have also been keeping an eye on Police corruption since the Brett Darrow incident in St. Louis County (link below).
I’ve been saving articles from FFFF to forward to local bloggers here in the Midwest. This story NEEDS to go nationwide.
This wont end good for anyone in Fullerton. Fullerton taxpayers are on the hook for the massive settlement for murder committed by the Police.
I am really proud of the Fullerton people for standing up for Kelly Thomas.
It’s also possible the actual video no longer exists. There are reports all over the Country where Police destroy Cell/Video evidence at the scene of an incident.
Look for the following excuses.
Lost
Camera malfunction
Oh, there was no video. That was just a rumor.
Accidentally erased from the computer
In response to St. Louis MO’s comment: “I am really proud of the Fullerton people for standing up for Kelly Thomas.”
The citizens of Fullerton and us nearby supporters thank you for your support from 2000+ miles away.
I also appreciate that video you shared.
Thanks once again, our ‘far away brethren justice seeker’.
Like the creation of Dr Ott that your blog readers thought was for real, the same will be thought of your new cartton video. I asked earlier if the depiction of a two officer car arriving first was accurate since that was different to witness statements I’ve read here. So now I’m confused and don’t know what to believe.
XER – #48 states the info posted re: Dr Ott’s psych opinions were “a joke” . What purpose does that serve ?
And just for info – Pat McKinley hired all of these officers. Once hired a new person cannot just walk in & start firing people.
What happened Rocknrollr, did you get beat up by police officers as well?
By the way, that witness statement interview, about 6 or 7 blogs below this one, was not a credible witness. His statements were not in line with most others. Plus he found something funny about the beating, as he chuckled to the interviewer and stated that he texted his girlfriend about it.
9c1copcar :
When Jay was shot, he was promised he would keep his job, would be put back on duty, and to only worry about getting healthy again. When he was told he was not going to be kept on, I have a feeling LAPD pulled strings to get him hired on another department. I say this because with any serious injury, such as he sustained, officers MUST STILL meet P.O.S.T. ( Peace Officers Standards and Training) requirements. Jay’s injury left him IN-ELIGIBLE to continue in law enforcement, as he no longer had 20/20, ( or correctable) vision! So, for accepting Jay on their dept., in CLEAR violation of POST standards, FPD left themselves open to MASSIVE liabilities. This, coupled with a most likely untreated PTSD ailment, and you have a dangerous element, one who has the actual power of life and death, operating amonst the citizenry.
Respectfully Submitted.
Thanks for that input.
So, I gather that this P.O.S.T. is not statewide? Obviously not in Fullerton.
This also explains why some local departments have cops that are morbidly obese.
In other words, they have health and fitness standards to meet in order to get the job. But, once they have it…anything goes?
Wrong Guy:
What’s with the hostility? I’m merely asking a couple of clarify questions – is that not OK?
As far as the new cartoon of two officers from the start, I was not referring to a single witness, and I haven’t seen this néw interview of this latecomer.
But I’m now more concerned with your attitude – what the he’ll ?
Rocknrollr, Wrong Guy is not our most eloquent poster, but he is allowed to post his opinions just as the FPD trolls are allowed to post their tripe. If you dislike Wrong’s attitude ignore him. Most all of us try and ignore the trolls that we don’t like. Your opinion receives as much attention as Wrong Guy’s.
Jim Paul has the right to make his “cartoon” as accurate as he can according to his understanding of facts presented by multiple witness testimonies. If you would like to see a more accurate depiction of the events that night, suggest you write the OC DA and urge him to release the surveillance video. We would ALL like to see that.
I think one of the problems with not just Fullerton Police Department, but all police departments these days, is the manner in which people are hired to become police officers. In many cases, this is the first job they have ever had. Some of them even start out as early as high school in a program called “Explorers”, a preparation program for teenagers to enter the police force as soon as they graduate.
One would think that police departments would want their candidates to have some real life work experience first and demonstrate at least a few years working in a normal type of job before they become police officers, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
By becoming police officers without any prior work experience, these officers will never have to demonstrate an ability to get along with others in an office or work environment. They don’t have to prove that they are normal in an inter-personal sense and one wonders if many of them would be able to hold conversations with co-workers, sit in on sales meetings, or just talk to customers.
I think this lack of experience working in a normal type of job, where getting along with co-workers and customers is required, that there may be something missing in their personality makeup. It’s sort of like that one strange guy every office seems to have that sort of gives you the creeps. You can’t put your finger on it, but the guy lacks any inter-personal skills or has a personality that just is not designed to get along with people. Take that guy and put a police uniform on him. Pretty scary, but that appears to be happening in most police departments these days. They are giving badges and guns to people who have never demonstrated that they are normal in a real life sense.
That is what is so frightening about some of these guy driving around in a police uniform these days. Some of them look like they haven’t even begun shaving yet and obviously have not had any real work experience yet. I guess that explains why they wear the dark shades. Perhaps they think we won’t notice just how foolish it is to have a child with a gun in his hands.
50687″>Rocknrollr :Like the creation of Dr Ott that your blog readers thought was for real, the same will be thought of your new cartton video. I asked earlier if the depiction of a two officer car arriving first was accurate since that was different to witness statements I’ve read here. So now I’m confused and don’t know what to believe.
XER – #48 states the info posted re: Dr Ott’s psych opinions were “a joke” . What purpose does that serve ?
And just for info – Pat McKinley hired all of these officers. Once hired a new person cannot just walk in & start firing people.
How long has Mckinley been gone?
Why can’t a person who is now in charge not be able to fire incomptent people who dont meet standards of the job? Are you saying they have their job for life no matter what?
Sure they can get rid of them- its done all the time-it maybe a little difficult-because of the union, but at least a paper trail can be started-unless those :recently” in charge are corrupt too and dont want to rock their buddy’s boat
I didn’t mean that comment about getting beat up by officers as an isult. You mentioned something about your hand in a cast and my remark was TOTALLY meant to be a joke. I’m sorry I didn’t ‘lol’ or something like that at the end. I just went back and reviewed my message and I could fully understand why it looked hostile. Wasn’t meant to be. Besides, I’m a rocker as well.
Jo-Jo was a man
who thought he was a woman
but he knew it couldn’t last
Jo-Jo left his home in Tuscon, Arizona
bought some California grass
get back
get back
get back to where you once belonged
get back to where you once belonged
Woooo, Get back, Jo
merijoe: McKinley had been gone for two years when this happened. Your first question about why a new person can’t fire incompetent people who don’t meet standards – are you referring to the officer with one eye? Or those involved in Kelly’s case? No I’m not saying they stay on forever, I’m saying it require “progressive” discipline. If any prior issues were dealt with lightly – and no paper trail was even started – it takes time and ongoing poor performance for a new supervisor / Chief, whoever to even become aware.
IMHO – if any of these involved officers have a history in their files and he let them off lightly and didn’t hold them the HIGHER STANDARD they should be, it’s McKinley’s responsibility – not the guy whose only been there for two years. In an organization that size, 2 years & your still considered “the new guy”.
And again – can anyone tell me if it was a single officer that approached Kelly that night, or was it in fact two of them initially? That would make a huge difference I think!
In one case regarding one of my friends, the Asst. D. A. told FEDUP and I, that her Deputies NEVER lie! I don’t have to be an attorney to tear that statement up in court. Just look at their prior cases. Oh, P.O.S.T. standards are State mandated.
As I was just getting ready to post the fact that this video, although animated, is so TO THE PROBABLE TRUTH that it scared all the trolls away.. Until this Jo chimes in with her “puke punk pro-police brutality pile a poo above.
So Jo, does that video about describe it the same way your “steroid injecting, needle-dicked” husband described it to you?
A good friend of mine from my academy class was involved in a motorcycle accident off duty. From said accident, he lost from the knee down on his left leg. He still had to pass a physical agility test once he had a prosthetic lower half installed. He passed, and was put back on patrol.
I agree with you. I believe they should be at least 27 before being hired. It helps to season them to life a bit more, yet leaves them young enough to still do the physical part of the job.
9C 1Copcar
You seem to know the real inner workings of the law enforcement community like I know the real inner workings of the healthcare system. This knowledge base comes from decades of first hand experience and I appreciate your insights. You have said in many fewer words what would take me pages to say. Law enforcement takes care of its own, an unwritten rule going back to Sir Robert Peel’s time in the early 19th century Britain. But in this case something went terribly wrong and it may have cost a young man his life. John states that I believe Cincinelli has PTSD, he is correct. Do I have proof, no. Do I have a strong visceral reactionWould any rational person really want someone like Cincinelli, who legally can use lethal force in appropriate situations, as a Police Officer? If there was even a 25% chance that he is suffering from PTSD that would still mean that the likelyhood this Officer could misinterpret a threat and respond inappropriately is just too damned high. I would think that this thought must have crossed the mind or minds of the brass who hired Cincinelli, and and him/they are indirectly responsible for Cincinelli’s actions. If I, as a citizen, witnessed the planning and commission of a crime and did nothing then I am just as culpable as the person who commited that crime. The point? The citizens of Fullerton will have to ultimately foot that bill for this horrible crime against Kelly, a crime that the DA, Dr. Jones, FPD brass, and some members of the city council have erroneously tried to spin as justifiable. Inorder for such a crime not to be repeated, all of the above must go, and as soon as possible.
I too love your posts. They are informative and enlightening. I often thought of how emergency personnel in the hospital viewed Kelly’s condition. I bet they were pissed!!
There is a saying. To watch an evil act being committed and do nothing, is more evil than the original sin.
There is also a saying. Blood is thicker than water, but decency is thicker than blood. This means that no matter what the relationship to the perpetrator(s), the good cops have to speak up against the bad.
At this point, if there were any good cops amongst the 6, you know there attorney told them to keep silent. Is it possible that one may come out from behind that ‘big blue wall o’ silence’?
I almost forgot, thank you for your dedication as a healthcare provider. I look up to all that work in this field, as when we need you, we are in a very vulnerable state of health/mind. Thanks again.
yeah knew about it for a while-there is also a good blog post on here called “who is Jay Cicinelli” good read-I believe the article is posted there too
Wrong Guy: You sayin if wits don’t see it your way, it was wrong? Maybe that’s how HE saw it!!
You have three guys climbing a mountain, one on the east, one on the west and one on the north. They all three reach the top. Now, ask them to describe the climb and how they saw it. Three different views!
Someone who purposely gets people mad over the internet by saying ridiculous things going against what the majority is talking about. For example here, everyone is Justice for Kelly, except some trolls who make ridiculous claims defending cops. They themselves might not even truly believe in what their saying, but just say it to see people get angry.
Rock-In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Anon: I do believe what I am saying. Calling cops or anyone a “murderer” before they are convicted… or charged, is not justice for anyone. You probably won’t admit it, since there does not seem to be intellectual honesty here, but Dad Thomas is only in this for the money. If he were in this for justice for KT he would not have ignored his son the way he did. KT would still be alive if justice was the issue and KT would have been taken care of by his family. I do believe that!
Okay what could his dad do for him? Do you know? Please enlighten us. Kelly was a grown adult, his dad couldn’t make decisions for him and he couldn’t just tie him down at home if Kelly wanted to be on the streets. If Kelly refuses treatment, he has every right to, his dad can’t force him. It wasn’t the family’s fault, the system is flawed. Regardless of any of that, Kelly did not deserve to die just because he was a suspect, even if he was homeless, schizophrenic, or anything else you can negatively label him.
If you really do believe your posts you are are not only believing lies, you are totally devoid of intellectual honesty, ethics, integrity, civilized morals, or existing peacefully with normal human beings. Sorry you can’t beat us ALL to death like your heroes did Kelly Thomas. Kelly is going down in history. You are nothing, will never be anything. You must be jealous no one will ever remember you at all. Do your parents even acknowledge your presence now when you are in the room with them?
Are you in the Explorers yet?
Anon: a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community…
Jainie is one of the most perfect examples you could hope to find of an Internet troll. His daddy, Reality IS another troll exemplar.
Wrong Guy: Please keep up the good work. My favorite bumper sticker of all time reads: “I may not agree with your bumper sticker, but I’ll defend your right to stick it!”
9c1cop car: Not sure what could have been done differently, one to think about.
Sorry for not commenting on your blog sooner. I was scrolling down and saw it. Thank you so much for your kind words. It was an HONOR to wear the badge, and an HONOR to serve the public.
Anon: Many ??? to ponder. No, KT did not deserve to die, however, bad things do happen sometimes. Bad choices or whatever the reasons.
I do think Dad Thomas and his family should have been pro-active instead of getting a restraing order against him for five years. At least kept him fed and clothed. And no, you cannot make a schizophrenic take meds, but you can do other things to insure their well being.
Now that KT is gone, Dad Thomas has to blame somebody because he screwed up. And he wants to sue for twenty million dollars. That’s what makes me sick.
No, [KELLY THOMAS] did not deserve to die, however, bad things do happen sometimes. Bad choices or whatever the reasons.
What? I shred of humanity after over 100 posts? Amazing! You forgot being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or being constantly assaulted with an inability to tell hallucinations from reality. Mentally ill people CANNOT be held accountable for not being able to tell what is real and what is not. Mentally ill are not supposed to be BEATEN TO A BLOODY DEATH because they are afraid for their lives. No one should be! Not even YOU.
Police are sworn to PROTECT AND SERVE. Doesn’t that oath include protecting the most vulnerable amongst us, the mentally ill and homeless? How did the six Fullerton police protect and serve Kelly? How did they protect and serve his family, or the city of Fullerton? How did they honor their oath? May we assume you are including the FPD 6 when you say, ” Bad choices or whatever the reasons,” resulted in Kelly’s death?
Just read an earlier post of yours. There were NO decent officers amongst the 6, otherwise, those few would have not let this injustice go any further. They were all COWARDS in my opinion, and probably beat their significant others on occasion as well.
Still loves: That is not true!!! You do not need a restraining order to get help for someone like KT. Someone is feeding you a line. If things had been different the night of July 5 KT would have been remanded for 72 hours observation and then received help, whether he wanted it or not.
Dad Thomas is the only one who caused pain to his family. Now he wants to cause pain to the officers who were only doing their jobs.
Heartless, I don’t think so. My entire career has been to help people like KT, and people like the police officers who have been maligned without cause.
Not every one thinks on your level, some think beyond that level!!!
Jaynbond on September 4, 2011: My entire career has been to help people like KT, and people like the police officers who have been maligned without cause.
Erm, yeah, and I’m really Jesus Christ.
Actually Justice ALL does dedicate her life to voluntarily helping the mentally ill. I have personally read many of her posts TO YOU trying to explain the reality of the situations faced by families of mentally ill people, and I’ve read your many IGNORANT BS responses to her. She works with mentally ill people all the time, and has a schizophrenic son. NONE of your posts to her have ever indicated you know ONE SINGLE FACT about mental illness! Hello? Now you do it for a living?
I believe your claims are simple bald faced lies meant to mislead the unwary.
No, this is bullshit. Kelly’s dad wants justice. Pain for the “officers” (why does anybody keep calling these pigs “officers” – a title of respect?) is their issue. If they are guilt free they will not (and probably are incapable of) feel a sense of guilt.
The PAIN will be inflicted on the taxpayers of Fullerton. And for that we have the Fullerton Six to thank, and the bald bastard who proudly acknowledged that he hired each and every one of them – Pat McKinley!
Are you serious Jayn?! Let me start off by saying that if one or even two officers can’t subdue and cuff a 135 lb man in a few seconds, instead of tazing the man after he’s already down, they never should have been allowed on the police force in the first place. End of story.
As far as you saying that “Dad Thomas is the only one who caused pain to his family” You’ve got some nerve!!!! It makes me wonder if you are not one of the six!!! I agree with Still Loves, you ARE heartless!!!!!!
I’m curious to know what level YOU’RE thining on. It’s certainly not any human level.
fucking COWARDS!!! 6 ON 1 !-I saw the hospital photos you cretin, no one should have to be traumatized by looking at that , let alone being the victim of that cowardly act–yes they are COWARDS AND NAZI’S AND DEMONS 6 on 1, mt proof is what Im seeing with my own 2 eyes ( and I, unlike your friend, Mr Beater, have two) wish that cop from oklahoma could have what he went on radio claimng to want-10 mins alone with “that big boy” (and he meant your fat eyeless friend) oh and say it in your best southern drawl too, like he did
Jayn, the proof and facts are coming. Just wait till the video is released. I’d be interested to see if you brandish that smug attitude then. My guess is that you will vanish into the darkness with your tail between your legs while the six stooges vanish to a jail cell. I’d be interested in what you would have to say then.
wuff! That was a rather longish interview. The reading part went much faster. Based on what former DA Mark Cabaniss said I believe:
1. The six FPD thugs were guilty of felony mayhem. During the commission of that crime they murdered Kelly Thomas, intentionally or not.
2. T_Rack will not prosecute because he places his political career above Justice. Don’t know the man personally, but based on everything read online, imo he is a coward.
My personal preference would be the FPD 6 be charged by the OC DA for involuntary manslaughter, so they would still be alive to face Federal charges of Civil Rights abuses, and the civil suits from the Thomas family. Besides death penalty cases tend to stretch out for years anyway. Years these guys should be paying by being in a variety of prison populations. These punks have a lot to pay for!
If someone did to my son what the FPD thugs did to Kelly, I would have just as deep a desire for justice as Ron Thomas. The Mayor, that utter FOOL, should be horsewhipped for what he publicly said about Ron’s son’s injuries. The mayor is clearly as bereft of human empathy as you, and as lacking in common decency as you are psychopathic.
Ron Thomas only said what he FELT like doing, not what he intended to do. Nor did he put physical action to his perfectly understandable emotion.
You should see someone about your sociopathic tendencies, Janie. Perhaps with drug therapies and intensive counseling you might manage to lead a productive life… eventually.
I won’t hold my breath though.
It is so good you can’t get to me and beat me to death as we all know you would like to do. Violence isn’t the answer, Janie. There will never be enough blood in any human body to satisfy your bestial urges. Try the drugs and counseling, really.
Jaynbond :
Anon: I do believe what I am saying. Calling cops or anyone a “murderer” before they are convicted… or charged, is not justice for anyone. You probably won’t admit it, since there does not seem to be intellectual honesty here, but Dad Thomas is only in this for the money. If he were in this for justice for KT he would not have ignored his son the way he did. KT would still be alive if justice was the issue and KT would have been taken care of by his family. I do believe that!
I said it before to either you or some person using the name Alan or Allen.. You are one of the very worst humans I have come across.. ever…
This whole case has nothing to do with anyone outside of
Person who called in the complaint
Officers that showed up
Person they questioned
Person they attempted to detain
Person they “resisted into his grave by way of DEADLY Physical force”
WITNESSES
and hopefully prison cells for a whole bunch of them
Kelly Thomas was how old? Are you saying his family should have violated his LEGAL ADULT RIGHTS
and kidnapped him and kept him on a chain and involuntarily fed him medication that is really expensive?
I find it extremely difficult to be civil with people like you.. you frighten me with the darkness in your heart
Fedup is going to do a solo act this Saturday. I am going to be visiting my 2 wonderful boys who I have not seen in a month. I will be here in spirit though.
ok, tell fed I will watch for arrival-next week we are at wishire in fullerton the big rally with food/music-https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=254260567940209&set=pu.253125251387074&type=1&makeprofile=1#!/event.php?eid=237344382974855
hey Merijoe, I drove by the maybe 40 protesters Sat and booed all of you, gave you a thumbs dwn from my air conditioned car. One of your peaceful
protesters almost got hit by my car….
Looks like crowd is getting smaller every week, doubt there will be a “big”
Of course, you tell your bloggers to ignore those of us you refer to us as “trolls”. Yet when we have a different view or oppose your blog, you get all upset, like it’s a personal attack. How can it be a personal, when our identities are anonymous?
Well then, explain why someone hijacks my original blog name.
You say we are all entitled to our own opinion on this blog but when it’s not the same as your followers, you attack and get defensive.
So what is it? You have contradicted yourselves from day one. Please just post something and stick with it. I have not faltered at all. I have had the same opinion from day one. But when you bloggers continue to “tweak” the truth and change your minds, all the time — you discredit this blog and you will never be taken seriously.
Just some things to think about.
Also, if someone uses my blog name and misspells, uses profane and inappropriate language or doesn’t make any sense —ITS NOT ME< OUTRAGED!
Jaynbond :
Taken from what Dad Thomas has himself said. Oh yeah didn’t he also say that he wanted to take a baseball bat to someone?
Xer you don’t know me either, but say all you want… it does not change the facts.
Fact – KT is dead. Fact – Police have not been charged. WHERE IS THAT BASEBALL BAT ?
WHY you make me sick..
You DO ALL YOU CAN TO AVOID RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE POLICE MURDERING THAT BOY…
If the video gets public and is anything like we all think it is.. and shows them
Anonymous: You are so misinformed! Don’t know where you get your info but KT was made a ward of the State when he first had treatment as an adult with a mental illness. Meds did not cost Dad T. anything.
If this whole case, as you say, has nothing to do with anyone outside Person, Officers, Persons who questioned, Person who attempted to detain… then why is Dad Thomas injecting himself into it as if he has rights? He gave up those rights when he signed a restraining order against his son. I bet he is sorry he did that, doesn’t kook so good for a law suit huh?
I’m sorry for KT but the Police have not been charged. As of now they are innocent! Completely! You cannot change that. As much as you would like to, you can’t!
FIRST QUESTION.. did you watch the video.. are the people lying and making it all up?
there is another video that shows the pool of blood still there the next morning.. want to watch it?
I would charge you as their accomplice if I could..
Why is Dad Thomas interjecting himself into bring his sons murderers to justice? hmm.. you can say what you want to belittle him or any other crime victims but he deserves closure on
HOW
WHY
WHAT
Killed his son
I feel in your tiny little heart that you hope the cops go free no matter what because of your disdain for homeless and some weirdo hatred for Kelly’s Father.. you are as sick as they come
WHO WAS GOING to have his death investigated..
None of your city council cared
Police force is sure they did no wrong is why they put the deadly force cops back on the streets
*If I was capt etc.. after knowing my men just beat .. I mean detained a man and he was bloodied beyond recognition and left a huge pool of blood in fullerton streets and the guy is in a coma.. NO WAY THEY GO BACK ON DUTY..
Not saying any guilt
I would want their mental state IMMMMMEDIATELY assessed…
Unfortunately, the only thing ‘funny’ about your posts is the writer.
Do your parents keep you locked in your room because you can’t play with other children without inflicting pain on them? Is that why you are always here, because you can’t play with other kids? Must be lonely alone in your room with only a computer for company. Poor little Janie.
I heard from an ambulance driver of that night that it was 17 minutes waiting for the commander (I guess thats protocol) who never bothered to show BTW- so they left
Anonymous: This was handled very poorly by the powers that be. Goodrich only does what he is assigned to do, you can badmouth him all you want but that is how the PD works, all PD’s.
Dad Thomas “interjecting himself into bringing his son’s murderers to justice?”
No one has been charged with murder, he is making that up as are the rest of you.
Thank God, literally, that you are not my judge, you have not even heard another side yet. However, you are so “tiny little hearted” that you do not want justice and due process to follow. Sad. Sad. Sad.
Jaynbond :
Anonymous: This was handled very poorly by the powers that be. Goodrich only does what he is assigned to do, you can badmouth him all you want but that is how the PD works, all PD’s.
Dad Thomas “interjecting himself into bringing his son’s murderers to justice?”
No one has been charged with murder, he is making that up as are the rest of you.
Thank God, literally, that you are not my judge, you have not even heard another side yet. However, you are so “tiny little hearted” that you do not want justice and due process to follow. Sad. Sad. Sad.
You know why we hate you.. right? You do all you can to
belittle the victim and the victims father
while
turning a blind eye .. * I truly now suspect you are in low enforcement (spelling error on purpose) there in that city or involved with city affairs.
You started this shit coming in here all
anti Thomas family..
pro cops
I just want the truth .. I could care less ANYTHING whatsoever about Ron Thomas
I wouldn’t care if Ron Thomas was a pimp or a drug dealer or a murderer living on death row..
HIS SON DIED in the hands of the Fullerton Police Department…
BUT.. once again.. Kelly Thomas was a citizen of USA.. and deserves this investigation no matter what a gross elitist like you thinks
I too would like to see a full and complete investigation into this situation. however, you bloggers are bad mouthing everyone you think is against your way of thinking.
You are upset at the DA because you think he should be done already. You don’t like the Chief, he didn’t handle it right. You bad mouth Goodrich, sayinghe sounds like a lap dog. McKinley, because he hired some of the officers. The mayor, the other City Council men because they are republicans. You don’t like the cops and are you are calling them murderers without evidence. On and on and on… Cm’on you guys at least look at it in the American way. Due Process, one of the best things that ever happened to this country, and you want to take it away. If the Officers were in public I have no doubt some of you would want a public lynching. Someone has to defend the police. WHY NOT ME? I am proud of what they do to protect us each and every day, and yes they do put their lives on the line for us. Support them! If they have done wrong then they should be punished, but not until they have been charged1
They went too far this time-Cops are not allowed to do whatever the hell they want just because they have a badge –
thats right, they cover for each other from the top down-
due process is what I think – yes they are guilty and I hope they are punished severly
To say, enough is enough thats the American Way not waiting for Raccaca-ass to decide what he wants to do
It’s the way it is and you can’t do anything about it. You might be able to fix Fullerton a little, but look around you. It’s the same everywhere and it all comes down to if you talk shit or fight with the police you are going to get your ass kicked. Deal with it. It’s the American way and it’s the way it should be. I love the USA. Now get all the Mexicans out of here so we can get back to normal.
Actually I congratulate Mr. Thomas for restraining himself to just a threat of a baseball bat, after the lack of leadership of the council, and on top of that the ridicule of his son’s death by the Mayor and Mckinley. Absolutely ridiculous for them to basically say Kelly’s injuries weren’t that bad, even though he died. His anger is understandable, they ridiculed his son’s brutal death, and yet you seem surprised and won’t drop it Jaynbond.
Fact is, Kelly Thomas WAS murdered, as defined by California Penal Code 187 (a) PC: “the unlawful killing of a human being or a fetus with malice aforethought.”
“The mental state constituting malice aforethought does not presuppose or require any ill will or hatred of the particular victim. When a defendant ‘with wanton disregard for human life, does an act that involves a high degree of probability that it will result in death,’ he acts with malice aforethought.”
Beating another with the butt end of a taser with blows to the head and drop-kneeing another to the windpipe clearly “involves a high degree of probability that it will result in death.”
“Thomas… wants to take a baseball bat to the city council.”
Who can blame him for the hyperbole? Even if he really wants to do it, again, who can really blame a grieveing father who’s mentally ill son was beat to death by cops for no good fkn reason?
Mr. Thomas was only referring to the Mayor concerning the baseball you ‘deflecting tumor’!!!
I told you if you got your head out of McKinley’s rear-end, you would hear and understand better.
From watching the youtube videos regarding the anger at the city council meetings, I am very hopeful that soon, all of them will be in the unemployment line.
Get a clue. You can’t do shit. Enjoy Fullerton because the other cities are laughing at you. If you were really a cop, you must have got fired for being a pussy.
Jaynbond :
Thomas is calling them murderers and wants to take a baseball bat to the city council. Real nice huh?
This has already been said by Dad Thomas so my accusations are on point.
Very mild in my honest opinion
THREE WEEKs Jay..
2 weeks the cowards you protect weren’t willing to INVESTIGATE
sad that you cannot see your heroes are failing you HARD
Wrong Guy :
Mr. Thomas was only referring to the Mayor concerning the baseball you ‘deflecting tumor’!!!
I told you if you got your head out of McKinley’s rear-end, you would hear and understand better.
I am willing to bet money that Jay works for the city
His mental processes seem very like a pre-early-teen. If he is not physically a boy with a bully complex, then his emotional development was arrested around that age, in my layman’s opinion.
More important than whether it’s full of lies or not, notice the date of the press release, “7/28/11.” Those that try to defend the FPD cling to this press release saying the FPD called for and independent investigation before anyone else. Little do they know, the FPD was about 3 weeks late in responding to the event that happened 7/5/11. What were they waiting for? For this whole thing to blow over, that’s what.
You seem to be confusing ” the bloggers on this site” with you and your fellow trolls. Could be what YOU smell is your own foul breath. Try breathing through your nose instead of your mouth. Bet it helps.
Get Used to It on September 5, 2011
It’s your balls you smell.
Ah, but I don’t smell anything here. What do YOU smell?
Get Used to It on September 5, 2011
You can’t do shit either. Keep whining from your computer screen. Get used to the American way.
No, Saddam Hussain’s way perhaps, Kim Jon Il’s way, Moammar Gadhafi’s way, Bashir al Assad’s way, the Ayatollas’ of Iran’s Way. NOT the American Way, junior. Clearly you know nothing of American History. Perhaps you are not only in the wrong city, but the wrong country?
Actually, little boy, I am doing something, along with all the other good folks here. We are keeping this murder in the public’s consciousness. That is what scares the living daylights out of you. Justice will not come because we allow this to be swept under the rug, as you wish it. Justice WILL come because the DA cannot ignore public opinion forever due to people on the Internet keeping it from being forgotten. See? WE THE PEOPLE will prevail. You will lose.
You are frightened and angry because you cannot silence all of us as your heroes silenced Kelly Thomas. WE are the American Way, not you. You are the way of petty tyrants and brutal murderers. That, is NOT the American Way. Get used to the American Way.
They are all clueless. They have had no power in life to do anything so they think they can come to this small town in Fullerton and hang everybody with no evidence of anything. They will learn that they will be run out of Fullerton faster than they came in. Get used to the American way. You talk shit to the police or fight them they will kick your ass. Get used to it. Nothing you can do.
“They are all clueless. They have had no power in life to do anything so they think they can come to this small town in Fullerton and hang everybody with no evidence of anything. They will learn that they will be run out of Fullerton faster than they came in. Get used to the American way.”
Sounds like you’re talking about the FPD for a second. Thought you were starting to make sense. What happens when I don’t fight and the FPD still kicks my ass, you still okay then?
Jaynbond: You are not alone. Many of us out here just don’t want to bother with those who are so close minded they want to bypass the justice system and, I think you said lynch the officers without due process.
Jaynbond on September 4, 2011
Fact – KT is dead. Fact – Police have not been charged. WHERE IS THAT BASEBALL BAT ?
Fact; KELLY THOMAS (the name you don’t have the courage to spell) IS dead. Yes he is.
Fact: Police have not been charged. (no they have not)
Fact: 80 or more eyewitnesses saw six FPD tasering, beating, kicking, knee-dropping Kelly Thomas, and SMASHING HIS FACE AND HEAD INTO THE STREET AND CONCRETE CURB.
Who do YOU think killed Kelly Thomas? The eye-witnesses? Another homeless person? He killed himself?
Fact: Kelly Thomas went into a coma before the police stopped the beating.
Fact: Severe head injuries may very well lead to a coma and/or death.
Fact: There were videos taken while the police beating of Kelly Thomas was taking place. Mind you these videos were shot during the commission of a MURDER.
Fact police confiscated as many of the videos as they could get their hands on, and no one has seen them since.
Why, Janie? Why would ANYONE try to cover up doing Right?
Fact: Taxpayers have been denied access to the video recording made with taxpayer monies.
Fact: Janie is the one who is too closed-minded to see the OBVIOUS. Kelly Thomas was killed by six uniformed armed FPD But, Janie can’t think for himself. Janie can’t add 2 + 2. Janie can only wait for someone else to tell him what to think.
Fact: The individual who posts as jaynbond, exhibits no moral compass, no human empathy, and in my opinion no evidence of a human soul. His posts read as written by a sociopath. Maybe he’s not a sociopath. But, then why does he write like one? 2+2=4?
…my Nostradamus gene has been working overtime after the thunderstorms this morning, and my intuition tell’s me that tomorrow is not going to be a good day to be a Fullerton Police Department sycophant.
If you “appreciate” 6 cops mercilessly bludgeoning a 140-lb. unarmed man to death, than you are one sick mf’er (or as others have surmised, one of the killer pigs yourself).
Xer: there you go, trying to get around the justice system again. You want to bypass the justice and due process for the officers.
You called it a “comission of murder.” Were you there? Did you see it happen? Did you see the head injuries? Have you read the reports? See the autopsy reports? See the FBI file?
It has already been stated that there is nothing that rises to the level of criminal negligence. Whay can’t you accept that?
Do you think that all of the people involved in this are in colusion? All of them? The Police Officers, the DA, the Chief, the coroner, the pathologist, the crime seen investigators, the FBI, the independent investigator? The State crime lab? All of them?????? Get real.
If i’m called a sociopath, well… I’ve been called worse. It’s okay.
Xer I do like your postings, keep it up. And I do have a moral compass. That is why I want to see the justice system work here.
Known’ More :
Jaynbond: You are not alone. Many of us out here just don’t want to bother with those who are so close minded they want to bypass the justice system and, I think you said lynch the officers without due process.
TELL US ONE GOOD THING THE POLICE FORCE DID FOR KELLY THOMAS OR FULLERTON THAT NIGHT>> JUST ONE!!!!!!!!
OR EVEN a faint one a glimmering hope of
I do wonder if they contacted next of kin to tell A FELLOW OFFICER that “hey, our boys, they .. your Son.. uh.. he RESISTED US.. we .. uym,,, ya see .. We beat your boy real bad.. SEE.. INTO A COMA… see.. and he is in the hospital ON LIFE SUPPORT ..
But I want you to know .. NONE of my fine men did anything wrong.. why do you think I watched the video with them and helped them get their stories straight so we could all go home and have tea with our children and such .. ”
WHEN Jay can do nothing but come in here with cop sperm on his bung and lips and talk shit about mental diseases and belittle the parents of an 37 year old adult that was
RESISTED TO DEATH
So, they aren’t murderers why did they make Kelly Thomas a CORPSE then?
Talk about NON BIAS.. wow.. have any of you ever tried to talk about any of the evidence that points to anything wrong the cops did.. EVER..
JAY DIDNT EVEN ANSWER ME.. he ran/RESISTED me when
1. I got him to AGREE that any time the police resist a person into a coma/life support which was really just a dog and pony show since Kelly Thomas was DEAD ON SCENE..
^that it MUST be investigated by the police department to the fullest methods.
2. When I told him that was fine and dandy BUT THAT HIS POLICE FORCE AND CITY HALL DIDN’T DO SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT .. that
Ron Thomas is the only reason this is being investigated…
He had nothing good or bad to say about his police farce and city hall not investigating this
..HE RESISTED REPLYING.. HE PLEADED his unbiased.. LOL 5th amendment rights ..
RESIST TO DEATH Case … they didn’t give a fuck just like Jay..
So, don’t let the cop trolls come in and claim to be IMPARTIAL NONBIASED and let them call you names and such
they have never said anything against the cops in this case even once and want to talk SHIT about the father of a THIRTY SEVEN year old man who was murdered by the cops.. how does he play into this..
was ron thomas SWINGING THE NIGHTSTICKS that night.. Fuck.. for all I know he could have been a brutalizer as a cop too.. AND I DONT CARE
I wont play your stupid game..
cops
kelly thomas..
are the only people who were involved in Kelly Thomas being killed in fulllerton streets at the hands of the fullerton police
“TUSSLE”
IF your son or daughter resisted arrest and was beaten to death what would you do when a STOOGE for the FPD writes in the article @ OCR afterwards that it was just a “TUSSLE” that killed your son or daughter..
IF JAYNBOND and KNOWN’ MORE ARE NOT PLANTS or .. if they are nonbiased..
LET THEM STEPUP NOW and list EVERYTHING THEY SEE THAT WENT WRONG THAT NIGHT from a citizens perspective – not the perspective of a person who “have 5 kids ALL PROFESSIONALS” TRUST ME.. that “professionals” SHOWED A LOT AGAIN… showed his
elitism
social structure beliefs
I truly sens Jay is a real shitwad in real life.. no care whatsoever for the homeless or mentally disturbed and from what I have learned about Universal Karma.. continue on this path and you will see your children develop mental disorders later in their lives or you will get alzheimers etc for being such a creep to people who needed compassion
stop letting them talk about shit that has nothing to do with the case.. they must fear mr thomas I guess? all they can do is talk shit about someone that was not present when his son was RESISTED TO DEATH by a gang of officers that work in fullerton, ca…
There WILL be more damning evidence coming out soon against the Fullerton Police Department! This info will come to us via ALL the media, ie. ABC, CBS, NBC, KTLA, KCAL, FOX News, CNN, etc. I highly doubt that their sources of this info will be from the DA or FBI though. I do believe this info will put heat on the DA to finish this up and bring TRUE (not Police) JUSTICE to this case. Trust me; it’s not a dream.
Not necessarily, that is not if justice for Thomas is the goal. The DA will face an uphill battle in trying to get an OC jury to convict. He will have to do it without the cooperation of any law enforcement officer/witnesses, in fact, he will have to consider all officers as hostile witnesses who will lie and change testimony at the last moment to save their brothers. This is why a strongly favorable to the prosecution coroner’s report is critical, as is a shockingly disturbing transportation center video. These two pieces of evidence might be enough if managed properly. And that means the DA should hold both close to the vest until trial.
I hope this evidence will also force them to release the tapes they have been sitting on for two months now. That is, if they haven’t been coveniently “lost” already.
Our legal system is a failure for putting the DA in the position he is in.
A district attorney’s job first and foremost must be to befriend the police force as though they are his own children.
So, how is he expected to now honestly, unbiasedly, bring charges on his own children?? They are best buds .. and now we expect him to be MAN ENOUGH to bring ALL THE necessary charges?
WE/Society needs to change many things about the way police forces and city hall do business
district attorneys office should not investigate these cases.. we have already WITNESSED THE FRUIT OF THE DA.. not one charge in 15 years and let them try to railroad the wrong man just recently..
The DA let them write a FALSIFIED CASE against a man and let them take him to trial.. you really think he has a nonbiased bone in his body when it comes to his children in blue?
“Fullerton police admit cellphone video proves wrong man arrested”
From the link above: “There is a blue wall of silence,” (deputy DA) Claustro said during his closing arguments, producing a huge graphic of a blue brick wall with a center area occupied by a man putting his vertical index finger to his lips. “I hate to talk to you about a code of silence. We don’t want to believe it happens. But it does.”
Anoymous wrote about the DA prosecuting excessive force cases: “not one charge in 15 years”
This is a fiction perpetrated by the FFF bloggers. I found three relatively recent cases without even trying, none resulting in convictions as the cop/witnesses were unreliable and essentially flat out lied or developed amnesia. The DA tried, but the ‘blue wall’ is real and OC juries tend to side with the police.
Vicarious Liability – Employers’ Liability for Wrongdoing of Employees
employer is vicariously liable for the negligent acts of his employee which cause injuries to a third party, provided that such acts were committed during the course of and within the scope of the employment!!
Jaynbond :
Do you think that all of the people involved in this are in colusion? All of them? The Police Officers, the DA, the Chief, the coroner, the pathologist, the crime seen investigators, the FBI, the independent investigator? The State crime lab? All of them?????? Get real.
SAME UNION
SAME PENSIONS?
SAME CA RETIREMENT?
SAME HIRING AND FIRING AGENCIES?
The next of kin WAS informed. The message was:
We are sad to report that your fathers suffered slight bruising/possibe fractures to their hands/wrists while commencing to beat a helpless individual into a coma. Please do not worry though, as this perpetrator/criminal who your fathers eventually murdered, will be charged with multiple felonies, and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. You have my promise.
Signed, Fullerton D.A. et al
I just want to set the record straight here; I am NOT against law enforcement. I had the HONOR of wearing the badge, and I can tell you, I worked with some exemplary people who also saw the badge as I did. They did their jobs to the best of their abilities, and YES, they stayed WITHIN the law doing it. Then, there were the ones who looked upon the badge as POWER. They swaggered through the locker room, talking their shit, bragging how crime stats had dropped significantly since they were out on patrol. These individuals gave the dept., and their kind, a bad name, and were always being scrutinized for not only excessive force, but VERY questionable arrests. Illegal stops, searches, false charges and the such. When was the last time you heard of an officer, who suspecting some illegal activity in a certain residence, went up to that house, asked to use their bathroom under false pretences to ILLEGALLY enter said residence, then commenced to secretly search/tape the inside looking for evidence? I have had contact with an individual who this happened to.
It is this illegal behavior that the both of you HAD BETTER worry about if you get stopped by one or more of these kinds of officers late at night.
Law enforcement is sorely NEEDED in a civilized society. There are many bad elements in society who would do us and our loved ones harm, but these brave souls have dedicated themselves to combatting those criminal elements. I salute them all. Who I DON’T salute, are those individuals who wear the same badge, who become the enemy of the people. They are the ones who, when they enter the academy, drop all of their civilian friends, congregate with only those in their dept., drink and drive, abuse their spouses, and have this pervasive desire to outdo everyone else in the number of arrests, irregardless of whether it is a legitimate arrest, or came as a result of illegal means. The evidence then becomes, in legalese, the fruit of the poison tree. Evidence, obtained illegally, is therefore tainted, and has to to be thrown out.
I would sincerely hope that if you two gentlemen were on the jury, and you had clear evidence of an officer that committed perjury on the stand, in a case you were hearing, you would then take his whole testimony as false, and give it no weight or merit.
I will close for now, but IF you two are dedicated to justice and honor in this society as I am, then you have to call injustice what it is. I am not asking you to jump the gun, but a single man who died at the hands of 6 armed, trained, and bigger men IN UNIFORM, should send a shiver up your spine. It is an undeniable FACT. I do await your response.
Respectully Submitted
For the love of god and the rest of America. This must never be forgotten or swept under the carpet. Its time to hold these b…..ds accountable. I too was a victim of police brutality, and I assure all Americans that unless I find justice I pity you people. No I am not American.
That is true. Sometimes those lines get awfully blurry, sad to say. That is why INDEPENDENT oversite is so vital. If you look at INJUSTICE EVERYWHERE blogs, (just google the name), it shows that the Fullerton case is just a tip of the iceberg in crimes perpetrated by SOME of those behind the badge. Notice, I do not broad-brush anyone or profession, as there are people who truly care about others, and their moral, ethical, and decency compass would not allow them to sleep at nights if they were anything but upstanding.
Yes MGH you are most welcome here. Not only should this incident never be forgotten, it needs to set a precedent. Kill a man – go to prison. A murderer with a badge is a murderer nonetheless and should be prosecuted as such consistently. Not on a case by case basis. These cops simply don’t want to be accountable for their actions just because they wear a badge.
I have had my oldest son swooped on and surrounded by my own dept. for just driving along a road to his house at night. He was not speeding, but had a hotrod, and they tried to abuse him until he said that his dad was a retired deputy. This made them stop their shit IMMEDIATELY. This tells me they were up to no good.
Now, please, no one get the idea that my sons are not subject to the laws of this land; THEY ARE!! I have told them many times that if they break the law, they can get into trouble, and will have to pay the price for such actions. However, IF they are illegally stopped and harrassed, I want to know about it. I, myself, was stopped by my own dept. several times illegally, and only when I confronted those deputies regarding the probable cause, did they retreat. So, if it happens to anyone here, KNOW the law. Ask them what was the probable cause for the stop. If you have questions as to the legality, call their station, and have the Watch Commander respond to your location.
You are so full of it cop car. Your poor little kid doing nothing wrong. Get a clue. Your kid was screwing off, breaking the law, and he got what he deserved. I cited an LASO kid the other day for this same stuff. Acted like he owned the world. He will learn. The deputies had PC for the stop and your son talked shit. If he hadn’t, he wouldn’t have had an issue. Yes, call the watch commander. That’s me. But when I play the recording of your son being an asshole, you better get the hell out of the station.
Do you have evidence of this incident, Reality? I’m betting you don’t.
What city are you a watch commander in? I want to be sure to steer clear of that place. There’s only one thing worse than being falsely arrested and that’s being falsely arrested by a moron with an attitude.
If you are any kind of police officer or “Watch Commander” you sure succeeded in representing law enforcement in poor light in your post (#261) post. Congratulations, Know-it-all.
Wrong Guy :NICE, Abstract. When did you start blogging on here. Welcome aboard!
Thanks Wrong Guy. I started yesterday. These cops need to understand that their job is to “Protect and to Serve” not “Seek and Destroy” but I don’t think they’ll get it till one of them goes to prison.
The world is listening and Fullerton we are hearing your pleas. To much power, and this is what happens. Its happening here in the UK as well, but we a committed to put a stop to it.
This is what happens when we live in a society that believes in what law enforcement does and says. No one questions that as a matter of fact how many of you have applauded when cops beat up a criminal and then say things like good, ef him, on and on. Well it is kind of like a small child in the sand box that keeps throwing sand at another child and the parents go oh how cute. In other words we condone the bahavior and so then when abhorrent things like this happen what is one to think? Well the cops thought that everyone was going to approve of their behavior, after all we have all cheerleaded for them when they beat up a known criminal. This was what the babboons in blue the heroes as they are called thought.
The sounds of a Taser can be heard, along with Kelly Thomas beg those 6 officers, ‘Please, please, please God, I’m sorry, I’m sorry,'” and screaming and then yelling, “Dad! … Dad! … Dad!”in his last breath and desperation from the heart? You would be so heartbroken to know your child died crying out for you, and you wasn’t there to help them.
When Fullerton polices and officials smell blood from your nostril, they are going wild and out of control. Begging will only make it worse like dumping fuel on fire on these cops.
One officer supposedly beat Kelly Thomas with the butt of his Taser until blood started coming up all over the officer’s arms and hands. Another officer supposedly drop knees Kelly Thomas’ nose and throat with the full force of his body weight multiple times, crushing the victim’s throat.
This happened while Kelly Thomas was not moving or resisting. When a group of you jump,beat, and kill a guy, its called murder. When sadistic cops do it, its called resisting arrest.
If you think Hitler is bad…read on.
I have been away on vacation for 3 weeks and am happy to see this blog still going strong. Unfortunately, I personally believe only minor charges will be made since the DA generally frowns on charging the very group he needs to work with. So I see minor charges that may not reach involuntary manslaughter. However, the fact that the Thomas lawyer has a case involving Fullerton PD lying in a related case, then this monster case tells me it will be settled without trial. It will simply be too embarassing for the current city council to go through a months long civil trial in the newspapers and fed all over the world. The settlement amount will really hurt property and business owners because Fullerton is a self insured city. This could reach into the $10,000,000 size award. You have a crappy police chief appointed by city council buddies who takes a vacation after the incident then when the crap flies takes a sick leave so he cannot be fired. You have a spokesperson for PD that represents the Union, not all the PD. You have 80 witnesses who are not allowed to view tapes but officers who are allowed to view the tapes and collaberate with each other before giving their statements. All that does is drive up the settlement costs.
You also have a bereaved father who is an ex deputy so knows the “system”, also an officer with one eye which any juror will ask “how did he qualify for his job?” So it will never see a jury, but will be bought off with good old taxpayers money. If I lived in Fullerton, I would be very very upset with your Mayor and City Council. They are ultimately responsible.
You have a very good point, Paul but you have to remember that Ron Thomas is not going to be bought off for any amount of money. He and his attorney are going to see this to the end and there’s nothing the DA can do about that except try to defend the officers’ (and I use that term loosely) actions. It WILL be brought in front of a jury if Ron Thomas has anything to say about it. Also remember that the FBI is involved so this can be taken to a federal level. I took all this space just to say “I hope you’re wrong” and I believe you hope you’re wrong too.”
EyeNeverSayNo :
Look this one up: People v. Christopher Hibbs http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-04-16/news/moxley-confidential/
From the link above: “There is a blue wall of silence,” (deputy DA) Claustro said during his closing arguments, producing a huge graphic of a blue brick wall with a center area occupied by a man putting his vertical index finger to his lips. “I hate to talk to you about a code of silence. We don’t want to believe it happens. But it does.”
Anoymous wrote about the DA prosecuting excessive force cases: “not one charge in 15 years”
This is a fiction perpetrated by the FFF bloggers. I found three relatively recent cases without even trying, none resulting in convictions as the cop/witnesses were unreliable and essentially flat out lied or developed amnesia. The DA tried, but the ‘blue wall’ is real and OC juries tend to side with the police.
FWIW.. the DA should have found a way to bring them up on perjury then 😉
IMHO.. He knows what they are going to do when he brings the charges.. he probably even tells their Capt etc his case before he puts it on trial.. they are all the same GANG 🙂
I bet his success rate convicting citizens is light years ahead of convicting his blue friends
“I bet his success rate convicting citizens is light years ahead of convicting his blue friends.”
Yes, I’m certain that it is, it’s not hard to beat by light years a zero percent success rate, eh? But it’s not necessarily because they are part of the same “gang.” It’s because jury’s tend to believe cops when they get on the stand. Most of the time this works out well for the cause of justice, but definitely not so much when the defendant is a fellow cop.
Just try to imagine how frustrated the deputy DA in the Hibbs case must have had to have been to get up in front of the jury during closing in the Hibbs case and openly charge the cop/witnesses in that case with lying and participating in “a blue wall of silence.” He directly attacked the very people he has to work with every day to do his job and get convictions.
Look, I want very badly to see justice for Thomas in the form of seroius charges and convictions for the officers involved, but I also think that understanding the actual dynamic at work here, not the too easy ‘conspiratorial us against them’ blather, is key to changing the way things are.
After all, it’s the too easy ‘us against them, we are the good guys and they are the bad guys’ cop view that in their minds justifies the ‘blue wall.’ IMO, we should all try not to embrace and become that which we rightly criticize. If we do, nothing will ever really change for the better.
ACLU says cops will always fight against a civilian review board but will eventually lose. If it has power, which it would, it works. Wouldn’t be expensive at all, it would save a lot of money since we would be getting rid of bad officers.
Change is coming. We know you don’t want it, but it doesn’t matter.
I don’t mind them. Their power is limited. They don’t get access to everything like you think and don’t make decisions like you think. I know from researching them it’s just another layer of politics to fight through for the public. You have remember the commission is chosen by the council in cities like Fullerton. It wouldn’t be like lapds commission. Just take 10 local cities and see if they have them and if they do, how they operate. Most cities look into them and abandon the idea for various reasons.
They vary tremendously. They can be formed from the start with a high level of access and broader powers. They can demand and enforce total transparency between the police, the board, and the citizenry. The citizens can pressure city council to only appoint serious individuals with no conflicts of interest or insider connections. A good defense lawyer might make a nice addition. Maybe someone who’s come up against perjuring officers before. And maybe a police brutality researcher or activist. I can imagine a board that could change the culture of FPD quite radically.
Jus Wondering… If MGH had said they were a police supporter and wanted to see the justice system takes its course and we should all be supporting the police until the DA comes in with or without charges… What would you say to that? Jus Wonderin’.
EyeNeverSayNo :
“I bet his success rate convicting citizens is light years ahead of convicting his blue friends.”
Just try to imagine how frustrated the deputy DA in the Hibbs case must have had to have been to get up in front of the jury during closing in the Hibbs case and openly charge the cop/witnesses in that case with lying and participating in “a blue wall of silence.” He directly attacked the very people he has to work with every day to do his job and get convictions..
Hibbs played the script.. it is a possibility..
I do apologize if the case was presented as well or better than any of the civilians they try…
DA and Sheriff etc can easily make a dog and pony show out of shit if they want to.
*************************************************
“I don’t appreciate those comments,” Hutchens said. “I don’t believe there is (a code of silence). If any of our deputies acted inappropriately, we will take care of it in an administrative manner.”
KEYWORD
ADMINISTRATIVE..
That quote right there.. said in no broken English
“get the fuck out of our internal affairs. If anything goes wrong here.. stay out and we take care of our own”
Maybe reading a lot into it BUT
SHE IS the Coroner in the Kelly Thomas case?? The autopsy report conveniently has not been supplied yet.. hmmm a
Show me one ONE person that wants to leave their GOVERNMENT job.. one??
Would they lie to keep it..
Cover up for fellow employees to keep it
Aid and abet fellow employees to steal money from taxpayers even though they are already overpaid
Blue Line is bigger than you think
Just like Mainstream Media tells you what to think
Wrong. Most government employees don’t beat homeless schizophrenics to death. Most private citizens don’t either. Not the same pattern at all. Rogue officer in a rogue department – lawleless psychopaths who mistakenly think everybody is like them. We’re not. We’re better than you. Deal with it.
Most schizophrenics don’t fight and assault and run from the police either. Lawless mentally ill nut jobs. Just like anyone else if a nut job goes wild and crazy, doesn’t mean you or the cops or your child needs to get hurt. The nut needs to get hurt if that’s what it takes to take him to jail. Deal with it.
I have worked in mental health for years. I am an over weight, middle aged woman. Our staff have NEVER used a taser, gun, or billy club….no weapons, only our words and our skill to restrain clients with schizophrenia. If I can do it by myself without even leaving a bruise….enuff said, right? So embarrassing to see the excuses….ANY mental health professional will tell you….it’s not that hard. C’mon folks…be honest.
and frankly….it doesn’t matter….you can restrain without killing. Do. Your. Job. Have integrity….stop reacting like a scared 1st grader. Stay calm and do what you are trained to do. I have to do that every day….
As far as one eyed officers in the city of Fullerton, you all SHOLD know that Jay Cicinelli is NOT the only one.
Officer Tak Kim has been on the department since I was in high school in the early 80’s,..He WAS a motor officer, I know this because he wrote me my first ticket. Some weeks later he was doing a training excercise on the motor in the City Of FUllerton in the oil fields, and crashed the bike,..in that accident, he lost his eye,…He NOT ONLY wasnt put off or retired on disability, but eventually promoted to Sgt.
I ALWAYS thought that was odd as Police Officers (one would think) need to rely on their eyesite for a multitude of reasons,..JUST one of which is driving vehicles at high rates of speed,..and of course using their weapons,….
1st.
That’s the shit…the music rocks…you rock Tony
Jim Paul rocks. He made the video.
Thanks Jim!
Thank you guys for providing the venue for it. Much appreciated
BRAVO. I hope you get a billion hits.
You have provided the video the bad guys are attempting to hide.
Thank you.
Justice for Kelly.
I would like to say, that it was a very powerful video. The graphics and editing really get the point across. Excellent job.
Out-standing
Best use of “Welcome to the Jungle” ever!
Where did the info about the scratch ticket come from? This is new, have not heard about this until now. I think this is very important as it must come from someone who witnessed the period of time right before the beating started. Or perhaps this bit of info came from someone inside FPD? Read on another Fullerton’s Future blog that one of the murders, Cyclops I believe, was overheard bragging about Kelley’s beating in the FPD locker room. May be good news as there are persons in FPD with integrity and new revelations may follow. By the way, has there been follow up regarding the fact that Cyclops was on disability from LAPD and was hired at FPD. Did he recieve psychological counseling after his injury? Was he given pre-employment psychological testing when he applied at FPD, or was he just grandfathered in? If he was deemed unfit for service in the LAPD, was it just because he had only one eye? I also read on Fullerton’s Future blog that McKinley was ex LAPD, did this councilman grease the way for Cyclops to get in the FPD?
THE THING IS, THEY COULDN’T PROVE HE STOLE IT, AND FURTHER MORE THEY HAD NO ONE REPORTING KELLY STOLE ANYTHING FROM ANYBODY! NO PROBABLE CAUSE! LOTTERY TICKETS GET DISCARDED EVERY SINGLE DAY, CAN’T THESE MORONIC COPS THINK OUTSIDE OF THEIR LIMITED BOXES?
Any PD worth their salt would NEVER take a person who had only ONE eye. Too much liability potential.
Also, what kind of mental screening did Cicinelli receive prior to being hired? Surely he had to have PTSD from his shooting incident with LAPD.
9c1- as a medical professional (not bragging trying to make a point) I promise you a shot to the head that results in a lose of an eye results in some brain damage, not sure of the amount but there is some residual deficits in that area
This is truly a great video! Powerful and pointed!
I am a big man and this scares the shit out of me.. I can HULK BIG TIME.. to defend myself.. but what the fuck
that captain sergeant etc BETTER GET LOCKED UP
WHO LET THOSE MURDERERS BACK ON THE STREET
WHO
they need to pay bigtime.. bigggg
I live out of state and am watching how this plays out. Those cops commited capital murder and need to face the maximum penalty for murder.
Book ’em Dan’l…
There are more than 50 cops in California working with one eye. This is according to POST.
as street cops? or otherwise?
And there are 20000 who turn a blind eye
#7 by Anonymous on September 3, 2011
I am a big man and this scares the shit out of me.. I can HULK BIG TIME.. to defend myself.. but what the fuck
that captain sergeant etc BETTER GET LOCKED UP
WHO LET THOSE MURDERERS BACK ON THE STREET
WHO
they need to pay bigtime.. bigggg
Don’t you mean the private major?
I think we’ll find out what tests Cicinelli went through to get hired when he gets to court, assuming he was one of the involved officers.
also
contact these men to get them to help in exposing
http://anonops.blogspot.com/
District Attorney Tony Rackauckas for fifteen years of never charging a dirty cop for being dirty
“… fifteen years of never charging a dirty cop for being dirty.”
What about the People vs. Deputy Christopher Hibbs excessive force trial in 2009?
http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-04-16/news/moxley-confidential/
Or how about the People vs, Officer David Park?
http://www.ocweekly.com/2007-02-08/news/illegally-park-ed/
And the DA also brought excessive force charges against Dana Point officers Jose Pelayo and Brett Gardner.
http://www.ocweekly.com/2008-09-11/news/moxley-confidential/
I’m sure there are more, but these three relatively recent excessive force cases put the lie to that claim. The fact of the matter is, as the OC Weekly’s Scott Moxley put it so well, “Orange County juries have a long, pathetic history of siding with cops, even obviously dirty ones.”
It’s unfortunate that this blog perpetuates the myth that the OC DA’s office has never sought to prosecute and convict any officers of excessive force in 15 years, because they have, and if one looks at the DA’s history with these cases, how difficult it is to get a conviction due to lying cop/witnesses and sympathetic-to-law enforcement juries, it is easy to understand why the DA’s investigation in the Thomas murder is taking so long.
The DA has to build a case against the Fullerton officers that is 100% independent of cop/witness testimony. That means he needs a favorable to the prosecution autopsy report and a video that will knock the socks off the jury. At the moment he’s publicly pressuring the the coroner and keeping the video under wraps. If he’s smart, and he is, the first time the jury will see the video will be just before they leave the courtroom to begin deliberations.
9th….lol
This new depiction of two officers arriving at the same time is different from others I’ve read – this isn’t meant to be accurate is it?
They often double up at night. Two officers per car.
Wow. Holy shit. OMFG.
That made my eyes water. That’s it, right there.
THERE’S your video, even if the bad guys never release the real one.
Wow.
Listen. That short video is Kelly’s flag. Let’s make it viral, like nothing has ever been viral.
I’m still a little shaky. We were able to see Kelly’s terrified face before the orcs smashed it.
Bravo. Bravissimo.
JUSTICE FOR KELLY THOMAS.
#10 😛 maybe some hackers can crack the LA puters and get the video .. haha
http://www.4chan.org/contact
Video is gone.
Is it legal for someone to collect disability from one job while at the same time working the same type of job? It seems to be plain common sense that there is something wrong here. In my line of work if I had a physically disabiling injury and was judged not to be fit to continue in that line of work by a physician then that would be final. I know it will come out in court, may be in a year or two, but something really stinks about this. What makes the hiring standards so different in FPD from those in LAPD. Cicinelli IS disabled. Then why is he in the FPD? Patronage maybe?
Yes. Some people have numerous pensions. The hiring agency is the only obstacle. As long as they approve, it’s legal to work and get the pension. He was only at LAPD about a year so it’s probably not a ton.
Not so sure. His first is a disability.
PERS does not generally allow sworn members (police, fire, etc.) on disability retirement from one agency to work in the same capacity for another PERS agency. However, LAPD (LA City) has its own retirement system, so that may not be applicable.
PERS disability retired sworn members can return to PERS employment in a civilian capacity, but I think they have to give up their disability retirement for the duration of the new PERS employment (not sure, it’s been a few years since I was involved with that). There may also be a difference between part-time and full-time employment.
If the cops did nothing wrong in this case, WHY did they confiscate cameras and film from witnesses at the scene?!?!?!
They’re corrupt and they will walk away with their pensions at most. The D A has great political expectations. The D A wants the union vote.
Not enuff eveidence to make a case.
The LAPD is supposed to have pensioned Ofc Cincinelli off with a 70% pension. ‘If’ he was still getting the LAPD pension; in addition to his FPD salary, which itself includes a second pension, he must be about the highest paid street officer on the FPD, or any other Dept. Even if he cashed out LAPD’s pension in lieu of regular payments; he should still be quite well off, because in addition to his FPD salary, he would also be getting the interest, dividends and capital gains from the investments from the pension cash out. When he was hired by the FPD he must have been laughing … all the way to the bank.
He enjoys hurting helpless drunks,children and mentally ill.
Marines would never send a one eyed Marine into combat… why did FPD? …..
Dead man in gutter… put me on the jury.
Yes.
John,
And that 70% is all TAX-FREE!!
9c1, what’s your take on this video?
…look up the definition of the word sycophants and you’ll find the people who contibute to the “wahhhh I’m too sick to work” Chief Sellers facebook page…
http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Support-Fullerton-Police-Chief-Michael-Sellers/239972329369180?sk=wall&filter=12
Here are some of Sellers’ fans:
http://www.lupeandrade.com/ – real estate agent
http://www.facebook.com/people/Lisa-Marie-Scott/1268501618 – Top Gun is one of her fave movies
http://www.facebook.com/people/Diane-Vasquez/1330768595 – appears to be partial to Jesus and cop shows
Check this out written bt an attorney and listen to the radio interview after you read the story
http://greaterlongbeach.com/31/08/2011/the-kelly-thomas-case-involuntary-manslaughter-or-felony-murder
9c1copcar,
You might be right, regular payments could be tax free – for life. But even if he cashed out the pension, the lump sum should have been enough, in theory, to last the rest of his annuitized (average) life span – assuming average rates of return. Like I said, when the FPD hired him he must have been laughing – all the way to the bank.
I worked many years ago in a 900 bed veterans hospital with a lot of returning vietnam vets. They didn’t even have PTSD as a classifiable diagnosis then. I can tell you some of these guys had a very rough time state side. Though I am not a diagnostician, I would think that Cincinelli would be at severe risk for PTSD owing to the intense physical and psychological trauma he endured from being shot in the face. I had seen men having flash backs and it was very disturbing to witness. I have read that a portion of our veterans who are homeless may suffer from untreated PTSD. My point is why weren’t the standards of the LAPD on par with those of the FPD. What were the special considerations extended to Cincinelli which should have prevented any other applicant from being hired? Have these special considerations been extended to others on the FPD? Are the hiring practices at FPD legal and fair?
Meadow Muffin
I think the FPD was trying to nice when they hired Cicinelli, since he had been tragically shot in the eye after only 3 weeks on the LAPD. But no good deed goes un-punished. I actually feel bad for him myself. I don’t know about his psych state, which could have been fine. But he shouldn’t have been a street ofc, if not just because his depth perception could impair his markmanship and other skills. The LAPD or FPD could have hired him for a desk position, but they didn’t.
FFFF did a post on this. McKinley was doing a favor for an old LAPD cop named Hillman.
The same Hillman who worked at OC Sheriff briefly?
^^ they don’t really care much for Law when it stands in THEIR WAY OR APPLIES TO THEM
^^ and if his hiring sgt doesn’t GET CANNED??
I was talking to someone this evening who used to be a cop and he said he’s trying his best to NOT follow this, but when I told him about Jay Cicinelli, he said, “What?????” He was shocked too that someone who lost one eye would be hired on with another pd.
Great video. I personally think there WILL BE charges brought forth.
#33 John
If LAPD did not reassign him to a desk job then they must have had a compelling reason not to do so. Perhaps it was something to do with his being in his probationary period, and/or not having a position opened to which he could be reassigned. FPD did hire him, obviously not for a desk job, but for street duty. Then there must have either been some communication problem between LAPD and FPD, or FPD made a serious misjudgement. Or perhaps there may be another reason why he was hired at FPD? I think that FPD would have required a pre employment physical, during which the fact that he had one eye should have prevented him from being hired. One question would be that the the physical was waived, or that its recommendation was over ridden. In either of these two possibilites someone made this executive decision. I question who made the decision, and are they competent to be in their position, and should that person be dismissed. This may seem like hair splitting, but I believe that these are some very serious questions that will eventually need to be answered.
Yes, charges should be brought because excessive force. When I said I felt sorry for Cicinelli I meant because he got shot in the eye after only three weeks on the LAPD. It’s pretty obvious at least one, or two, of the officers has a big problem (likely Cicinelli and ‘maybe’ his partner) for excessive force, as do the police chief and the city counsel for an obvious cover-up. If it hadn’t been for the Youtube video where you can hear Terry crying out “Dad, Dad, Dad” this wouldn’t have gone viral and they would have buried this along with Terry. Word of caution, the names of the other officers have been published from here to kingdom come, but we do not yet know what they did wrong, IF anything at all. So do not pre-judge the ‘Fullerton Six’ because we do not yet know what they were told when they arrived at they scene. Maybe when they arrived the officer(s) already there lied and said Terry attacked them. And maybe they did do something wrong, but we don’t know, yet.
John on September 4, 2011
“Yes, charges should be brought… So do not pre-judge the ‘Fullerton Six’ because we do not yet know what they were told when they arrived at they scene. Maybe when they arrived the officer(s) already there lied and said [Kelly] attacked them. And maybe they did do something wrong, but we don’t know, yet.”
John, what difference if the first cops there claimed Kelly attacked them? It takes 6 full-sized trained armed cops to subdue a guy face down on the ground already pinned by cops sitting on top of him by beating him into a coma and asphyxiating him by crushing his face and windpipe? The people on the bus video said the cops were all beating on Kelly. Despite what the trolls here want you to believe, that is what witnesses first said after seeing the beatdown.
Is basing an opinion on video and eye-witness testimony ‘pre-judging?’ It really takes a stretch to believe all six are not culpable. Even if all they did was stand and watch the others commit murder, they are still complicit.
If all you do is drive the getaway car in a robbery in which someone is killed, you are still considered guilty of MURDER by the Law. Oh, or do the same laws that apply to the rest of America not apply to cops?
Meadow Muffin,
We’re not that far apart. Yes, he should not have been a street ofc, if not just because of his eye. Yes, there should be an investigation about how he got hired on with the FPD as a street ofc with a bad eye. Maybe they broke their own rules because they felt sorry for him because of what happened at the LAPD? That really could be the reason, but they’ll never admitt it. But this is only a side show because it is not relevant toward the – Exessive Use Of Force.
Excellent video. It should go national.
I don’t want to play the devil’s advocate, John, but this is a part of the big picture not a “side show”. A circus and the savage beating of a 135lb man by 6 police officers on a busy street, in front of over 80 witnesses while being video’d, has nothing to do with a form of entertainment. This lack of basic hiring practices points to an organization which bends the rules. And an organization that does do so is doing it without appropriate oversight. And this oversight should have been carried out by those who run Fullerton. It seems that this tendency to not follow the rules has permeated the government of Fullerton, and its police department. Hiring Cincinelli was a real misjudgement. Believe me I understand that this is about excessive force. I have worked in healthcare for almost thirty years. I have seen some pretty horrendous things. I have an iron stomach, could literally eat a ham sandwich while watching a leg amputation. But when I saw that photo of Kelly in his hospital bed it actually made me nauseated, and very irate. Kelly looked like someone who had run afoul of Idi Amin in Uganda, or had protested against the Shah in Iran ,and paid with his life. That Dr. Jones could actually intimate in an interview that Kelly’s injuries weren’t that bad and that he had seen worse is very chilling. This coming from a “healer” is most disturbing. This man’s judgement is very questionable. That the DA, city government,and FPD went into immediate “cover your ass” mode says to me that the whole system is corrupt. That the city offered Ken Thomas $900,000 is more indicative of guilt than anything else.This kind of brutality goes on in uncivilized countries, not in America. Well obviously it does happen here, and though I live 3,000 miles away, as an American it really pisses me off. Cincinelli was witnessed as a primary participant in the murder of Kelly Thomas, and I know, it will all come out in the trial. But over 80 people witnessed the beating, a good percentage of these witnesses pointed out Cincinelli as a prime participant. An anonymous source in the FPD stated that Cincinelli actually bragged about the Kelly beating in the FPD locker room. Per Dr. Ott, the psychiatrist this could be construed as pathological behaviour.This leak from FPD means that one of his own, someone with integrity and empathy, turned on him. There is hope that there are others in the system like this anonymous leaker who will stand up and testify. I realize that the basic point here is justice for Kelly.
Meadow Muffin, I loved that post.
FYI: Dr. Ott was a joke by one of the FFFF crew (in my expressed opinion it was a mistake, but it was intended as humor). However, there are some very knowledgeable people here who have posted links and c/p’s about sociopaths and psychopaths. So, I still loved your post. Oh, my stomach has never been as strong as yours (a HAM sandwich?), so imagine how much tougher it is for those of us without your strength to look at Kelly’s hospital picture. (shudder)
IMHO, the worst rule that was broken was by the person that let them put badges on the next day.
AFTER?? watching the videos with them and helping them write their reports.. come on??
Anonymous on September 4, 2011
IMHO, the worst rule that was broken was by the person that let them put badges on the next day.
That was the cowardly Chief Sellers, no?
The buck stops where? McKinley sure sold Sellers out quick. I still think that was pre-planned for after Sellers retired on his ‘medical’ leave. He needs to be sued in civil court for every penny of that pension.
XER is right on target the family needs to sue sellers and possibly the attorney who later denied publicy that he was not involved in attempt to silence Mr. Thomas.
THE POLICE LAWYER NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT UP ON CHARGES OF LYING AND CONSPIRACY TO COVER UP A CAPITAL CRIME. GO AFTER HIS LICENSE TO PRACTICE LAW IN CALIFORNIA.
Meadow Muffin,
You seem to be assuming Cincinelli was in some way not psychologically fit when first hired by the FPD. So far, no one has said this was the case … when he was first hired. There are ‘Rumors’ that after being hired some officers thought he was to heavy handed, and there are the rumors that he was bragging about how rough he was with Terry immediately after the altercation occurred – both should be investigated. For the record, I have personal experience that the FPD can be unnecessarily heavy handed. Any way, with only one good eye Cincinelli should have been behind a desk, not in the field with a gun and driving a patrol car. See my prior comments about how he likely made so much from his LAPD pension he could have spent the rest of his life sipping a Corona in Cancun, MX rather than hassling homeless people in Fullerton, CA. You are spot on about the cover-up and that should be a whole separate investigation. Thank you for mentioning the potential for FPD officers with integrity and empathy – see my prior observations about the injustice of pre-judging the “Fullerton Six”. Who is Dr. Ott? I live here in Fullerton and even bought Terry food a couple times. You live 3,000 miles away? Geez !!!
Corrections to Meadow Muffin and John above:
Meadow Muffin-“The city offered Ron (Thomas) not Ken.”
John-“he was bragging about how rough he was with ‘Kelly’, not Terry.
Great posts and insights by both of you though.
just so u know
that is exactly what happened
Are you referring to the vid, chiken? It doesn’t surprise me at all.
Nice job FFFF!!! After all, we as citizens are NOT getting any truths thusfar from any officials. So far it has been either lies, defensive remarks towards FPD6 or plain old ‘guilty’ silence. This rendition seems to depict what concievably happened that night. My favorite part was, “Hey DA Tony, Do you think this video is UNFAIR or INNACCURATE? PROVE IT!
Way to send it home FFFF. Justice is on it’s way.
SDLocal,
My take is that it is in line with the facts.
When Jay was shot, he was promised he would keep his job, would be put back on duty, and to only worry about getting healthy again. When he was told he was not going to be kept on, I have a feeling LAPD pulled strings to get him hired on another department. I say this because with any serious injury, such as he sustained, officers MUST STILL meet P.O.S.T. ( Peace Officers Standards and Training) requirements. Jay’s injury left him IN-ELIGIBLE to continue in law enforcement, as he no longer had 20/20, ( or correctable) vision! So, for accepting Jay on their dept., in CLEAR violation of POST standards, FPD left themselves open to MASSIVE liabilities. This, coupled with a most likely untreated PTSD ailment, and you have a dangerous element, one who has the actual power of life and death, operating amonst the citizenry.
Respectfully Submitted.
“…for accepting Jay on their dept., in CLEAR violation of POST standards, FPD left themselves open to MASSIVE liabilities, …..This, coupled with a most likely untreated PTSD ailment, and you have a dangerous element, one who has the actual POWER of LIFE and DEATH, operating amonst the citizenry.”
Thank you, sir.
Wow!!! More violations of policies and standards, 9c1 to throw into their 3-ringed circus of scandal. From your experience, do you think some of these city police, as well as local sheriff depts. run their own show? IE. Make up their own policies and procedures and modify (lie) as needed for various situations?
To be clear, local agencies are responsible for developing medical screening procedures and criteria based on their officer’s duties, demands, and working conditions. And also, use of the POST Medical Screening Manual is discretionary. So to cite ‘violations’ of POST standards might be somewhat overstating the case against the FPD’s hiring of Jay Cicinelli.
Especially when you consider that in Doane v. City of Omaha, the Omaha PD was actually ORDERED to rehire Officer Doane after he was let go due to losing an eye to glaucoma. The court found that:
“Doane made the requisite showing that his disability does not prevent him from performing the essential functions of the job…. While the medical experts all agreed that Doane’s peripheral vision is limited, the medical experts also testified that Doane has made adjustments that compensate for his limited peripheral vision… Doane demonstrated that the city’s job description does not specifically require binocular vision.”
The court further found that “A reasonable jury could have concluded that Doane could perform the essential functions of the job, and thus Doane sufficiently satisfied his burden to demonstrate that he was qualified for the job.”
I think our problem with Jay Cicinelli should be that he apparently participated in the murderous beatdown of Kelly Thomas, not that he has just one functioning eye.
As far as the Thomas killing, yes. But of course the broader point is that Cicinelli may not have belonged in uniform at all. That will be an issue for Mr. Mardirossian.
The question of hiring cops of dubious physical abilities as a favor for a friend goes to the misplaced loyalties and judgment of Pat McKinley who ran the department for 16 years and will be the subject of a recall.
“That will be an issue for Mr. Mardirossian.”
More accurately, for the jury. If it get to that point, Mardirossian will try to make much hay out of Cicinelli’s minor disability, while the defense will no doubt cite his many years as a successful officer, his qualifications for the job, as well as the precedent set in Doane v. City of Omaha. As for the PTSD issue, that will be a non-starter as I’m sure Cicinelli had to pass his psych evals, which I’m sure will be completely documented. And lets not forget, Officer Cicinelli is likely to be on the receiving end of a sympathetic OC jury with regard to his injury and his ‘courage in returning to police work’ and blah blah blah.
“The question of hiring cops of dubious physical abilities as a favor for a friend goes to the misplaced loyalties and judgment of Pat McKinley…”
I suppose so, and anything goes in a recall, as opposed to in court. Still, at this point I don’t think the case for Cicinelli having “dubious physical abilities” is a strong one at all. Hopefully Fullertonians are as fed up with the three blind mice as the FFF denizens.
I doubt the actual video well ever be made public, at least in its entirety. All it takes is a Judge on the take to seal it and that Judge can make up ANY reason to keep it under lock and key.
Corruption it that bad.
they have to give it up or face a default judgment in the civil trial as well as contempt. the plaintiffs in the civil suit should have a copy now or soon. its not national security. they did keep a tape of 6 cops beating a suspect sealed in Houston but the plaintiff cannot be stopped from releasng it
The video will be the star, blockbuster “witness” at trial. The OC DA might not be popular here, but he’s no dummy: Expect prosecutors to make sure the first time the jury sees the video is just prior to the beginning of their deliberations.
Only an idiot with no concern for justice for Kelly Thomas would want the video released now, and give the potential jurors a year or more to get over what they saw, and for it to lose much of its impact.
I’ve been thinking the same St. Louie. The system would not want the masses of the general public to be made aware of the of morbid, saddistic actions and behaviours of our folks in badge and uniform. Assuming you are residing in St. Louis, how long have you known about this case?
I’ve followed the Kelly Thomas story since early August. I have also been keeping an eye on Police corruption since the Brett Darrow incident in St. Louis County (link below).
I’ve been saving articles from FFFF to forward to local bloggers here in the Midwest. This story NEEDS to go nationwide.
This wont end good for anyone in Fullerton. Fullerton taxpayers are on the hook for the massive settlement for murder committed by the Police.
I am really proud of the Fullerton people for standing up for Kelly Thomas.
The incident that brought down St. George Missouri
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3GlEe1kCHA
It’s also possible the actual video no longer exists. There are reports all over the Country where Police destroy Cell/Video evidence at the scene of an incident.
Look for the following excuses.
Lost
Camera malfunction
Oh, there was no video. That was just a rumor.
Accidentally erased from the computer
Anything to keep that video away from the public.
9c1 -you are right on regarding Uniball, read the prior blog post on here called “Who is Jat Cicinelli” there is an article intere that explains that
Jay -sorry for the error
In response to St. Louis MO’s comment: “I am really proud of the Fullerton people for standing up for Kelly Thomas.”
The citizens of Fullerton and us nearby supporters thank you for your support from 2000+ miles away.
I also appreciate that video you shared.
Thanks once again, our ‘far away brethren justice seeker’.
Like the creation of Dr Ott that your blog readers thought was for real, the same will be thought of your new cartton video. I asked earlier if the depiction of a two officer car arriving first was accurate since that was different to witness statements I’ve read here. So now I’m confused and don’t know what to believe.
XER – #48 states the info posted re: Dr Ott’s psych opinions were “a joke” . What purpose does that serve ?
And just for info – Pat McKinley hired all of these officers. Once hired a new person cannot just walk in & start firing people.
Sorry for typos – hand in cast & doing my best.
What happened Rocknrollr, did you get beat up by police officers as well?
By the way, that witness statement interview, about 6 or 7 blogs below this one, was not a credible witness. His statements were not in line with most others. Plus he found something funny about the beating, as he chuckled to the interviewer and stated that he texted his girlfriend about it.
Thanks for that input.
So, I gather that this P.O.S.T. is not statewide? Obviously not in Fullerton.
This also explains why some local departments have cops that are morbidly obese.
In other words, they have health and fitness standards to meet in order to get the job. But, once they have it…anything goes?
Wrong Guy:
What’s with the hostility? I’m merely asking a couple of clarify questions – is that not OK?
As far as the new cartoon of two officers from the start, I was not referring to a single witness, and I haven’t seen this néw interview of this latecomer.
But I’m now more concerned with your attitude – what the he’ll ?
Rocknrollr, Wrong Guy is not our most eloquent poster, but he is allowed to post his opinions just as the FPD trolls are allowed to post their tripe. If you dislike Wrong’s attitude ignore him. Most all of us try and ignore the trolls that we don’t like. Your opinion receives as much attention as Wrong Guy’s.
Jim Paul has the right to make his “cartoon” as accurate as he can according to his understanding of facts presented by multiple witness testimonies. If you would like to see a more accurate depiction of the events that night, suggest you write the OC DA and urge him to release the surveillance video. We would ALL like to see that.
I think one of the problems with not just Fullerton Police Department, but all police departments these days, is the manner in which people are hired to become police officers. In many cases, this is the first job they have ever had. Some of them even start out as early as high school in a program called “Explorers”, a preparation program for teenagers to enter the police force as soon as they graduate.
One would think that police departments would want their candidates to have some real life work experience first and demonstrate at least a few years working in a normal type of job before they become police officers, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
By becoming police officers without any prior work experience, these officers will never have to demonstrate an ability to get along with others in an office or work environment. They don’t have to prove that they are normal in an inter-personal sense and one wonders if many of them would be able to hold conversations with co-workers, sit in on sales meetings, or just talk to customers.
I think this lack of experience working in a normal type of job, where getting along with co-workers and customers is required, that there may be something missing in their personality makeup. It’s sort of like that one strange guy every office seems to have that sort of gives you the creeps. You can’t put your finger on it, but the guy lacks any inter-personal skills or has a personality that just is not designed to get along with people. Take that guy and put a police uniform on him. Pretty scary, but that appears to be happening in most police departments these days. They are giving badges and guns to people who have never demonstrated that they are normal in a real life sense.
That is what is so frightening about some of these guy driving around in a police uniform these days. Some of them look like they haven’t even begun shaving yet and obviously have not had any real work experience yet. I guess that explains why they wear the dark shades. Perhaps they think we won’t notice just how foolish it is to have a child with a gun in his hands.
beat them until discipline improves
50687″>Rocknrollr :Like the creation of Dr Ott that your blog readers thought was for real, the same will be thought of your new cartton video. I asked earlier if the depiction of a two officer car arriving first was accurate since that was different to witness statements I’ve read here. So now I’m confused and don’t know what to believe.
XER – #48 states the info posted re: Dr Ott’s psych opinions were “a joke” . What purpose does that serve ?
And just for info – Pat McKinley hired all of these officers. Once hired a new person cannot just walk in & start firing people.
How long has Mckinley been gone?
Why can’t a person who is now in charge not be able to fire incomptent people who dont meet standards of the job? Are you saying they have their job for life no matter what?
Sure they can get rid of them- its done all the time-it maybe a little difficult-because of the union, but at least a paper trail can be started-unless those :recently” in charge are corrupt too and dont want to rock their buddy’s boat
Rocknrollr:
I didn’t mean that comment about getting beat up by officers as an isult. You mentioned something about your hand in a cast and my remark was TOTALLY meant to be a joke. I’m sorry I didn’t ‘lol’ or something like that at the end. I just went back and reviewed my message and I could fully understand why it looked hostile. Wasn’t meant to be. Besides, I’m a rocker as well.
Ah! There’s the mettle of the man.
Good for you, Wrong Guy.
just so you all know ,
this is EXACTLY what happened that nite.
chxn
Either ways… COPS are back and one less Piece of useless homeless bum off the streets. Thanks God he’s DEAD, otherwise there goes more of TAX money !
JO?
Jo-Jo was a man
who thought he was a woman
but he knew it couldn’t last
Jo-Jo left his home in Tuscon, Arizona
bought some California grass
get back
get back
get back to where you once belonged
get back to where you once belonged
Woooo, Get back, Jo
LOL… Way to diffuse cruelty with humor. Thanks for the chuckle Xer!
Wrong Guy: Thanks – 🙂
merijoe: McKinley had been gone for two years when this happened. Your first question about why a new person can’t fire incompetent people who don’t meet standards – are you referring to the officer with one eye? Or those involved in Kelly’s case? No I’m not saying they stay on forever, I’m saying it require “progressive” discipline. If any prior issues were dealt with lightly – and no paper trail was even started – it takes time and ongoing poor performance for a new supervisor / Chief, whoever to even become aware.
IMHO – if any of these involved officers have a history in their files and he let them off lightly and didn’t hold them the HIGHER STANDARD they should be, it’s McKinley’s responsibility – not the guy whose only been there for two years. In an organization that size, 2 years & your still considered “the new guy”.
And again – can anyone tell me if it was a single officer that approached Kelly that night, or was it in fact two of them initially? That would make a huge difference I think!
Rocknrollr
Listen to the song…
http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2011/the-protest-continues-on-saturday/
Wrong Guy,
In one case regarding one of my friends, the Asst. D. A. told FEDUP and I, that her Deputies NEVER lie! I don’t have to be an attorney to tear that statement up in court. Just look at their prior cases. Oh, P.O.S.T. standards are State mandated.
JO,
There, but for the Grace of God go you..
As I was just getting ready to post the fact that this video, although animated, is so TO THE PROBABLE TRUTH that it scared all the trolls away.. Until this Jo chimes in with her “puke punk pro-police brutality pile a poo above.
So Jo, does that video about describe it the same way your “steroid injecting, needle-dicked” husband described it to you?
A good friend of mine from my academy class was involved in a motorcycle accident off duty. From said accident, he lost from the knee down on his left leg. He still had to pass a physical agility test once he had a prosthetic lower half installed. He passed, and was put back on patrol.
Peter,
I agree with you. I believe they should be at least 27 before being hired. It helps to season them to life a bit more, yet leaves them young enough to still do the physical part of the job.
Merijoe,
Nice to have met you this past Saturday.
same to you and fedup-sorry to have left and not said goodbye-see ya next sat?
I wish I could have been the with y’all.
9C 1Copcar
You seem to know the real inner workings of the law enforcement community like I know the real inner workings of the healthcare system. This knowledge base comes from decades of first hand experience and I appreciate your insights. You have said in many fewer words what would take me pages to say. Law enforcement takes care of its own, an unwritten rule going back to Sir Robert Peel’s time in the early 19th century Britain. But in this case something went terribly wrong and it may have cost a young man his life. John states that I believe Cincinelli has PTSD, he is correct. Do I have proof, no. Do I have a strong visceral reactionWould any rational person really want someone like Cincinelli, who legally can use lethal force in appropriate situations, as a Police Officer? If there was even a 25% chance that he is suffering from PTSD that would still mean that the likelyhood this Officer could misinterpret a threat and respond inappropriately is just too damned high. I would think that this thought must have crossed the mind or minds of the brass who hired Cincinelli, and and him/they are indirectly responsible for Cincinelli’s actions. If I, as a citizen, witnessed the planning and commission of a crime and did nothing then I am just as culpable as the person who commited that crime. The point? The citizens of Fullerton will have to ultimately foot that bill for this horrible crime against Kelly, a crime that the DA, Dr. Jones, FPD brass, and some members of the city council have erroneously tried to spin as justifiable. Inorder for such a crime not to be repeated, all of the above must go, and as soon as possible.
Meadow Muffin,
I too love your posts. They are informative and enlightening. I often thought of how emergency personnel in the hospital viewed Kelly’s condition. I bet they were pissed!!
There is a saying. To watch an evil act being committed and do nothing, is more evil than the original sin.
9c1copcar,
You and Meadow Muffin have both served your communities, and in a sense all of us. Thank you both.
There is also a saying. Blood is thicker than water, but decency is thicker than blood. This means that no matter what the relationship to the perpetrator(s), the good cops have to speak up against the bad.
At this point, if there were any good cops amongst the 6, you know there attorney told them to keep silent. Is it possible that one may come out from behind that ‘big blue wall o’ silence’?
Meadow Muffin,
I almost forgot, thank you for your dedication as a healthcare provider. I look up to all that work in this field, as when we need you, we are in a very vulnerable state of health/mind. Thanks again.
This is how Jay “uniball” Cicinelli got hired http://blog.ocsd.org/post/2009/11/20/Assistant-Sheriff-Michael-Hillmann-Know-as-Cops-Cop-at-LAPD.aspx
Great blog post Merijoe. Did you know about this Hillman prior or did you just located this recently?
yeah knew about it for a while-there is also a good blog post on here called “who is Jay Cicinelli” good read-I believe the article is posted there too
Great find, MJ.
I suck cocks.
Nice – not
LOL I was wondering why ‘he’ would admit that!? Just noticed the lack of one capital letter.
Sorry Peaches, but I’m rofl
good read merijoe.. thanks
WHY IS THERE NO THREAD dedicated to Saturday protest videos?
If corporate news won’t show it, you still can. YOUTUBE, remember?
Xer
Okay, found the one from a prior week. Guess I’ll just have to wait for this last week’s to come out.
My profound thanks to Ryan, Steve, Danielle, Julian Porte, and especially the Thomas family.
WE
ARE
KELLY
THOMAS!
http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2011/the-protest-continues-on-saturday/
Wrong Guy: You sayin if wits don’t see it your way, it was wrong? Maybe that’s how HE saw it!!
You have three guys climbing a mountain, one on the east, one on the west and one on the north. They all three reach the top. Now, ask them to describe the climb and how they saw it. Three different views!
and one dead/murdered bum.. aren’t you happy!
What’s a “troll” as it’s used here? Sorry – not I’m up on all these web terms.
Someone who purposely gets people mad over the internet by saying ridiculous things going against what the majority is talking about. For example here, everyone is Justice for Kelly, except some trolls who make ridiculous claims defending cops. They themselves might not even truly believe in what their saying, but just say it to see people get angry.
Rock-In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Too bad MJ there is no normal on-topic discussion on this blog! Don’t know where you are reading from!
Anon: I do believe what I am saying. Calling cops or anyone a “murderer” before they are convicted… or charged, is not justice for anyone. You probably won’t admit it, since there does not seem to be intellectual honesty here, but Dad Thomas is only in this for the money. If he were in this for justice for KT he would not have ignored his son the way he did. KT would still be alive if justice was the issue and KT would have been taken care of by his family. I do believe that!
Okay what could his dad do for him? Do you know? Please enlighten us. Kelly was a grown adult, his dad couldn’t make decisions for him and he couldn’t just tie him down at home if Kelly wanted to be on the streets. If Kelly refuses treatment, he has every right to, his dad can’t force him. It wasn’t the family’s fault, the system is flawed. Regardless of any of that, Kelly did not deserve to die just because he was a suspect, even if he was homeless, schizophrenic, or anything else you can negatively label him.
Janie:
If you really do believe your posts you are are not only believing lies, you are totally devoid of intellectual honesty, ethics, integrity, civilized morals, or existing peacefully with normal human beings. Sorry you can’t beat us ALL to death like your heroes did Kelly Thomas. Kelly is going down in history. You are nothing, will never be anything. You must be jealous no one will ever remember you at all. Do your parents even acknowledge your presence now when you are in the room with them?
Are you in the Explorers yet?
Anon: a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community…
Jainie is one of the most perfect examples you could hope to find of an Internet troll. His daddy, Reality IS another troll exemplar.
We have a dead body and six baboons standing around it. I have no problem calling that murder.
a troll is also someone who blames the grieving family and kelly himself for his death !!!
Jaynbond,
While I totally disagree with you, I respect and defend your right to be on here.
Jaynbond,
In your opinion, what could have been done differently to end up with a different outcome?
Same here Jaycat, plus I enjoy blasting you out of here once in a while….
Wrong Guy: Please keep up the good work. My favorite bumper sticker of all time reads: “I may not agree with your bumper sticker, but I’ll defend your right to stick it!”
9c1cop car: Not sure what could have been done differently, one to think about.
Xer,
Sorry for not commenting on your blog sooner. I was scrolling down and saw it. Thank you so much for your kind words. It was an HONOR to wear the badge, and an HONOR to serve the public.
That is a good one Jaynbond. First time hearing it.
Anon: Many ??? to ponder. No, KT did not deserve to die, however, bad things do happen sometimes. Bad choices or whatever the reasons.
I do think Dad Thomas and his family should have been pro-active instead of getting a restraing order against him for five years. At least kept him fed and clothed. And no, you cannot make a schizophrenic take meds, but you can do other things to insure their well being.
Now that KT is gone, Dad Thomas has to blame somebody because he screwed up. And he wants to sue for twenty million dollars. That’s what makes me sick.
Dead son = money for Dad Thomas.
No, [KELLY THOMAS] did not deserve to die, however, bad things do happen sometimes. Bad choices or whatever the reasons.
What? I shred of humanity after over 100 posts? Amazing! You forgot being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or being constantly assaulted with an inability to tell hallucinations from reality. Mentally ill people CANNOT be held accountable for not being able to tell what is real and what is not. Mentally ill are not supposed to be BEATEN TO A BLOODY DEATH because they are afraid for their lives. No one should be! Not even YOU.
Police are sworn to PROTECT AND SERVE. Doesn’t that oath include protecting the most vulnerable amongst us, the mentally ill and homeless? How did the six Fullerton police protect and serve Kelly? How did they protect and serve his family, or the city of Fullerton? How did they honor their oath? May we assume you are including the FPD 6 when you say, ” Bad choices or whatever the reasons,” resulted in Kelly’s death?
the reason they got a restraining order was to force the courts to put kelly in a hospital !!!
thats how the system works!!
do some research and stop causing so much pain to the family !!
you are heartless !!
Wrong Guy,
Just read an earlier post of yours. There were NO decent officers amongst the 6, otherwise, those few would have not let this injustice go any further. They were all COWARDS in my opinion, and probably beat their significant others on occasion as well.
Oh, a message to all, FEDUP was a LT. CMDR. in the Coast Guard. I also salute her duty to country. If I don’t, she’ll PUNCH ME!!
Dang! May I join you in honoring her? Good thing she’s too far away to punch me too.
Still loves: That is not true!!! You do not need a restraining order to get help for someone like KT. Someone is feeding you a line. If things had been different the night of July 5 KT would have been remanded for 72 hours observation and then received help, whether he wanted it or not.
Dad Thomas is the only one who caused pain to his family. Now he wants to cause pain to the officers who were only doing their jobs.
Heartless, I don’t think so. My entire career has been to help people like KT, and people like the police officers who have been maligned without cause.
Not every one thinks on your level, some think beyond that level!!!
Jaynbond on September 4, 2011: My entire career has been to help people like KT, and people like the police officers who have been maligned without cause.
Erm, yeah, and I’m really Jesus Christ.
Actually Justice ALL does dedicate her life to voluntarily helping the mentally ill. I have personally read many of her posts TO YOU trying to explain the reality of the situations faced by families of mentally ill people, and I’ve read your many IGNORANT BS responses to her. She works with mentally ill people all the time, and has a schizophrenic son. NONE of your posts to her have ever indicated you know ONE SINGLE FACT about mental illness! Hello? Now you do it for a living?
I believe your claims are simple bald faced lies meant to mislead the unwary.
TROLL!
Sorry, Justice for ALL
No, this is bullshit. Kelly’s dad wants justice. Pain for the “officers” (why does anybody keep calling these pigs “officers” – a title of respect?) is their issue. If they are guilt free they will not (and probably are incapable of) feel a sense of guilt.
The PAIN will be inflicted on the taxpayers of Fullerton. And for that we have the Fullerton Six to thank, and the bald bastard who proudly acknowledged that he hired each and every one of them – Pat McKinley!
Are you serious Jayn?! Let me start off by saying that if one or even two officers can’t subdue and cuff a 135 lb man in a few seconds, instead of tazing the man after he’s already down, they never should have been allowed on the police force in the first place. End of story.
As far as you saying that “Dad Thomas is the only one who caused pain to his family” You’ve got some nerve!!!! It makes me wonder if you are not one of the six!!! I agree with Still Loves, you ARE heartless!!!!!!
I’m curious to know what level YOU’RE thining on. It’s certainly not any human level.
9c1copcar: Don’t drag these officers down to your level.
Cowards… I don’t think so. Shame on you, you don’t even know them. What about proof? Facts?
“Shame on you, you don’t even know them.”
Yet, you seem to know Mr. Ron Thomas and his family oh so well.
Bravo Fresh!
Jaynbond on September 4, 2011:9c1copcar: Don’t drag these officers down to your level.
An example of a disrespectful reply to a man who has served his community with honor.
Janie, you stink!
Know them? We know Manny Ramos, Kenton Hampton and Jay Cicinelli pretty well.
Deeds speak louder than words.
Cowards? Damn straight!
fucking COWARDS!!! 6 ON 1 !-I saw the hospital photos you cretin, no one should have to be traumatized by looking at that , let alone being the victim of that cowardly act–yes they are COWARDS AND NAZI’S AND DEMONS 6 on 1, mt proof is what Im seeing with my own 2 eyes ( and I, unlike your friend, Mr Beater, have two) wish that cop from oklahoma could have what he went on radio claimng to want-10 mins alone with “that big boy” (and he meant your fat eyeless friend) oh and say it in your best southern drawl too, like he did
Jayn, the proof and facts are coming. Just wait till the video is released. I’d be interested to see if you brandish that smug attitude then. My guess is that you will vanish into the darkness with your tail between your legs while the six stooges vanish to a jail cell. I’d be interested in what you would have to say then.
Xer-heres an interesting article- tell me what you think
http://greaterlongbeach.com/31/08/2011/the-kelly-thomas-case-involuntary-manslaughter-or-felony-murder
Merijoe, I need to grab a bite to eat and take some heart meds. Then I’ll get back to you, K?
yes, by all means
wuff! That was a rather longish interview. The reading part went much faster. Based on what former DA Mark Cabaniss said I believe:
1. The six FPD thugs were guilty of felony mayhem. During the commission of that crime they murdered Kelly Thomas, intentionally or not.
2. T_Rack will not prosecute because he places his political career above Justice. Don’t know the man personally, but based on everything read online, imo he is a coward.
My personal preference would be the FPD 6 be charged by the OC DA for involuntary manslaughter, so they would still be alive to face Federal charges of Civil Rights abuses, and the civil suits from the Thomas family. Besides death penalty cases tend to stretch out for years anyway. Years these guys should be paying by being in a variety of prison populations. These punks have a lot to pay for!
Thanks for the interesting link, Merijoe.
Jaybond was never like the rest of the boys….
Taken from what Dad Thomas has himself said. Oh yeah didn’t he also say that he wanted to take a baseball bat to someone?
Xer you don’t know me either, but say all you want… it does not change the facts.
Fact – KT is dead. Fact – Police have not been charged. WHERE IS THAT BASEBALL BAT ?
Fact – Janie is a sociopathic psychopath.
If someone did to my son what the FPD thugs did to Kelly, I would have just as deep a desire for justice as Ron Thomas. The Mayor, that utter FOOL, should be horsewhipped for what he publicly said about Ron’s son’s injuries. The mayor is clearly as bereft of human empathy as you, and as lacking in common decency as you are psychopathic.
Ron Thomas only said what he FELT like doing, not what he intended to do. Nor did he put physical action to his perfectly understandable emotion.
You should see someone about your sociopathic tendencies, Janie. Perhaps with drug therapies and intensive counseling you might manage to lead a productive life… eventually.
I won’t hold my breath though.
It is so good you can’t get to me and beat me to death as we all know you would like to do. Violence isn’t the answer, Janie. There will never be enough blood in any human body to satisfy your bestial urges. Try the drugs and counseling, really.
I said it before to either you or some person using the name Alan or Allen.. You are one of the very worst humans I have come across.. ever…
This whole case has nothing to do with anyone outside of
Person who called in the complaint
Officers that showed up
Person they questioned
Person they attempted to detain
Person they “resisted into his grave by way of DEADLY Physical force”
WITNESSES
and hopefully prison cells for a whole bunch of them
Kelly Thomas was how old? Are you saying his family should have violated his LEGAL ADULT RIGHTS
and kidnapped him and kept him on a chain and involuntarily fed him medication that is really expensive?
I find it extremely difficult to be civil with people like you.. you frighten me with the darkness in your heart
Merijoe,
Fedup is going to do a solo act this Saturday. I am going to be visiting my 2 wonderful boys who I have not seen in a month. I will be here in spirit though.
ok, tell fed I will watch for arrival-next week we are at wishire in fullerton the big rally with food/music-https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=254260567940209&set=pu.253125251387074&type=1&makeprofile=1#!/event.php?eid=237344382974855
hey Merijoe, I drove by the maybe 40 protesters Sat and booed all of you, gave you a thumbs dwn from my air conditioned car. One of your peaceful
protesters almost got hit by my car….
Looks like crowd is getting smaller every week, doubt there will be a “big”
There wont be a big protest, crowds are dwindling…maybe Tony is running out of money to pay the protesters. Who knows?
But than again, counting has never been a strength of mine. Nor has spelling for that matter.
Of course, you tell your bloggers to ignore those of us you refer to us as “trolls”. Yet when we have a different view or oppose your blog, you get all upset, like it’s a personal attack. How can it be a personal, when our identities are anonymous?
Well then, explain why someone hijacks my original blog name.
You say we are all entitled to our own opinion on this blog but when it’s not the same as your followers, you attack and get defensive.
So what is it? You have contradicted yourselves from day one. Please just post something and stick with it. I have not faltered at all. I have had the same opinion from day one. But when you bloggers continue to “tweak” the truth and change your minds, all the time — you discredit this blog and you will never be taken seriously.
Just some things to think about.
Also, if someone uses my blog name and misspells, uses profane and inappropriate language or doesn’t make any sense —ITS NOT ME< OUTRAGED!
WHY you make me sick..
You DO ALL YOU CAN TO AVOID RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE POLICE MURDERING THAT BOY…
If the video gets public and is anything like we all think it is.. and shows them
doing even half of what these people say
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJi3lgXLBU
I hope you are forced to watch it 48hours straight with never being allowed to blink
watching it will just make his pecker stiffv
Anonymous: You are so misinformed! Don’t know where you get your info but KT was made a ward of the State when he first had treatment as an adult with a mental illness. Meds did not cost Dad T. anything.
If this whole case, as you say, has nothing to do with anyone outside Person, Officers, Persons who questioned, Person who attempted to detain… then why is Dad Thomas injecting himself into it as if he has rights? He gave up those rights when he signed a restraining order against his son. I bet he is sorry he did that, doesn’t kook so good for a law suit huh?
I’m sorry for KT but the Police have not been charged. As of now they are innocent! Completely! You cannot change that. As much as you would like to, you can’t!
The charges are coming. Look for it on Tuesday or Wednesday – after the holiday break.
Yep. It’s true. Then the video will be released. No eye witnesses needed.
heartless, yes things could have been different that july 5th… that could have been YOU!! or your CHILD!!
i don’t believe you have any idea what families go thru with mental illness in the family..
your all hot air, and totally closed minded
Jaynbond,
By the way you write, I can tell you do not have kids. If you did, you would know the love a parent has for their kids, no matter what.
Thank you. My impression exactly!
FIRST QUESTION.. did you watch the video.. are the people lying and making it all up?
there is another video that shows the pool of blood still there the next morning.. want to watch it?
I would charge you as their accomplice if I could..
Why is Dad Thomas interjecting himself into bring his sons murderers to justice? hmm.. you can say what you want to belittle him or any other crime victims but he deserves closure on
HOW
WHY
WHAT
Killed his son
I feel in your tiny little heart that you hope the cops go free no matter what because of your disdain for homeless and some weirdo hatred for Kelly’s Father.. you are as sick as they come
WHO WAS GOING to have his death investigated..
None of your city council cared
Police force is sure they did no wrong is why they put the deadly force cops back on the streets
*If I was capt etc.. after knowing my men just beat .. I mean detained a man and he was bloodied beyond recognition and left a huge pool of blood in fullerton streets and the guy is in a coma.. NO WAY THEY GO BACK ON DUTY..
Not saying any guilt
I would want their mental state IMMMMMEDIATELY assessed…
9c1copcar: This is very funny, very funny! I have 5 kids, all professionals!
Riiiight, Janie. All 13 year-olds have 5 kids.
Unfortunately, the only thing ‘funny’ about your posts is the writer.
Do your parents keep you locked in your room because you can’t play with other children without inflicting pain on them? Is that why you are always here, because you can’t play with other kids? Must be lonely alone in your room with only a computer for company. Poor little Janie.
I am very saddened to hear you produced any offspring 🙁
Was Mr Thomas also a police officer? I wonder if he realized very easily that they murdered his son..
10 minutes holding up the Ambulance?? what was up with that?
I heard from an ambulance driver of that night that it was 17 minutes waiting for the commander (I guess thats protocol) who never bothered to show BTW- so they left
i’m sorry to hear that…
Anonymous: This was handled very poorly by the powers that be. Goodrich only does what he is assigned to do, you can badmouth him all you want but that is how the PD works, all PD’s.
Dad Thomas “interjecting himself into bringing his son’s murderers to justice?”
No one has been charged with murder, he is making that up as are the rest of you.
Thank God, literally, that you are not my judge, you have not even heard another side yet. However, you are so “tiny little hearted” that you do not want justice and due process to follow. Sad. Sad. Sad.
Jaynbond,
How would you feel if FPD or any other agency did that to one of your kids?
You know why we hate you.. right? You do all you can to
belittle the victim and the victims father
while
turning a blind eye .. * I truly now suspect you are in low enforcement (spelling error on purpose) there in that city or involved with city affairs.
You started this shit coming in here all
anti Thomas family..
pro cops
I just want the truth .. I could care less ANYTHING whatsoever about Ron Thomas
I wouldn’t care if Ron Thomas was a pimp or a drug dealer or a murderer living on death row..
HIS SON DIED in the hands of the Fullerton Police Department…
BUT.. once again.. Kelly Thomas was a citizen of USA.. and deserves this investigation no matter what a gross elitist like you thinks
9c1copcar: It’s closer than you know!
Whey I see a picture of Cicinelli, why do I always get the feeling he would have been a natural in Deliverance?
Ok.. I can gain some easy respect for jaynbond the city employee if he answers this one question
Remove Ron Thomas from the picture.. say he died 6 years ago etc.. whatever.. he doesn’t exist
Kelly Thomas still dies the same way due to a “tussle” with the protectors of the peace..
Should an investigation be done any time a citizen dies in police custody? and if your answer is yes then please tell us why it wasn’t going to be.
Yes, I see the same picture as well as the Texas Chainsaw Massacre guy.
I too would like to see a full and complete investigation into this situation. however, you bloggers are bad mouthing everyone you think is against your way of thinking.
You are upset at the DA because you think he should be done already. You don’t like the Chief, he didn’t handle it right. You bad mouth Goodrich, sayinghe sounds like a lap dog. McKinley, because he hired some of the officers. The mayor, the other City Council men because they are republicans. You don’t like the cops and are you are calling them murderers without evidence. On and on and on… Cm’on you guys at least look at it in the American way. Due Process, one of the best things that ever happened to this country, and you want to take it away. If the Officers were in public I have no doubt some of you would want a public lynching. Someone has to defend the police. WHY NOT ME? I am proud of what they do to protect us each and every day, and yes they do put their lives on the line for us. Support them! If they have done wrong then they should be punished, but not until they have been charged1
They went too far this time-Cops are not allowed to do whatever the hell they want just because they have a badge –
thats right, they cover for each other from the top down-
due process is what I think – yes they are guilty and I hope they are punished severly
To say, enough is enough thats the American Way not waiting for Raccaca-ass to decide what he wants to do
It’s the way it is and you can’t do anything about it. You might be able to fix Fullerton a little, but look around you. It’s the same everywhere and it all comes down to if you talk shit or fight with the police you are going to get your ass kicked. Deal with it. It’s the American way and it’s the way it should be. I love the USA. Now get all the Mexicans out of here so we can get back to normal.
Thank you jaynbond
You just vindicated Mr Thomas
Have a nice night
None of your city council or police chose to investigate it.
Peace
Thomas is calling them murderers and wants to take a baseball bat to the city council. Real nice huh?
This has already been said by Dad Thomas so my accusations are on point.
so? what does that have to do with the price of tea in china?
Actually I congratulate Mr. Thomas for restraining himself to just a threat of a baseball bat, after the lack of leadership of the council, and on top of that the ridicule of his son’s death by the Mayor and Mckinley. Absolutely ridiculous for them to basically say Kelly’s injuries weren’t that bad, even though he died. His anger is understandable, they ridiculed his son’s brutal death, and yet you seem surprised and won’t drop it Jaynbond.
“Thomas is calling them murderers…”
Fact is, Kelly Thomas WAS murdered, as defined by California Penal Code 187 (a) PC: “the unlawful killing of a human being or a fetus with malice aforethought.”
“The mental state constituting malice aforethought does not presuppose or require any ill will or hatred of the particular victim. When a defendant ‘with wanton disregard for human life, does an act that involves a high degree of probability that it will result in death,’ he acts with malice aforethought.”
Beating another with the butt end of a taser with blows to the head and drop-kneeing another to the windpipe clearly “involves a high degree of probability that it will result in death.”
“Thomas… wants to take a baseball bat to the city council.”
Who can blame him for the hyperbole? Even if he really wants to do it, again, who can really blame a grieveing father who’s mentally ill son was beat to death by cops for no good fkn reason?
Mr. Thomas was only referring to the Mayor concerning the baseball you ‘deflecting tumor’!!!
I told you if you got your head out of McKinley’s rear-end, you would hear and understand better.
i totally agree with you fresh.. well said..
jay.. your lack of compassion is amazing..
i feel sad for you…
Found this video of Gestapo Cicinelli talking,
http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/news/local/officer-at-center-of-fullerton-beating-controversy-identified-20110802
From watching the youtube videos regarding the anger at the city council meetings, I am very hopeful that soon, all of them will be in the unemployment line.
Sweeping the CHAFF out of office, is the surest way of showing other cities that they had better shape up or go job hunting.
Get a clue. You can’t do shit. Enjoy Fullerton because the other cities are laughing at you. If you were really a cop, you must have got fired for being a pussy.
Very mild in my honest opinion
THREE WEEKs Jay..
2 weeks the cowards you protect weren’t willing to INVESTIGATE
sad that you cannot see your heroes are failing you HARD
so the next council meeting won’t be until the 20th??
I am willing to bet money that Jay works for the city
i think its a relative of one eye
Hum… son? nephew?
His mental processes seem very like a pre-early-teen. If he is not physically a boy with a bully complex, then his emotional development was arrested around that age, in my layman’s opinion.
does anyone have a timeline of happenings??
i found this press release, and if i’m not mistaken,
i think its full of lies
http://www.cityoffullerton.com/civica/press/display.asp?layout=1&Entry=2433
but i could be wrong, just doesn’t seem right
More important than whether it’s full of lies or not, notice the date of the press release, “7/28/11.” Those that try to defend the FPD cling to this press release saying the FPD called for and independent investigation before anyone else. Little do they know, the FPD was about 3 weeks late in responding to the event that happened 7/5/11. What were they waiting for? For this whole thing to blow over, that’s what.
And you can tell Goodrich wrote it. Never trust anyone who speaks of himself in the third person.
IMMEDIATELY after the incident, Fullerton Police requested the Orange County District Attorney to take over the investigation.
3 WEEKS LATER!!!
exactly !!
I smell RATS!!
Me too and its the bloggers on this site.
You seem to be confusing ” the bloggers on this site” with you and your fellow trolls. Could be what YOU smell is your own foul breath. Try breathing through your nose instead of your mouth. Bet it helps.
Oooooh, sick burn!
It’s your balls you smell. You can’t do shit either. Keep whining from your computer screen. Get used to the American way.
Get Used to It on September 5, 2011
It’s your balls you smell.
Ah, but I don’t smell anything here. What do YOU smell?
Get Used to It on September 5, 2011
You can’t do shit either. Keep whining from your computer screen. Get used to the American way.
No, Saddam Hussain’s way perhaps, Kim Jon Il’s way, Moammar Gadhafi’s way, Bashir al Assad’s way, the Ayatollas’ of Iran’s Way. NOT the American Way, junior. Clearly you know nothing of American History. Perhaps you are not only in the wrong city, but the wrong country?
Actually, little boy, I am doing something, along with all the other good folks here. We are keeping this murder in the public’s consciousness. That is what scares the living daylights out of you. Justice will not come because we allow this to be swept under the rug, as you wish it. Justice WILL come because the DA cannot ignore public opinion forever due to people on the Internet keeping it from being forgotten. See? WE THE PEOPLE will prevail. You will lose.
You are frightened and angry because you cannot silence all of us as your heroes silenced Kelly Thomas. WE are the American Way, not you. You are the way of petty tyrants and brutal murderers. That, is NOT the American Way. Get used to the American Way.
Wow… you all outdid yourselves this time. Been kickin’ back reading your blogs and maybe you should too.
If supporting the police makes me a troll, then I’m proud to do it. If the Officers have done wrong, well then let justice takes it’s course.
I will repeat my mantra one more time… “EXCITED DELIRIUM’ Google it! And no, I do not work for the City!
They are all clueless. They have had no power in life to do anything so they think they can come to this small town in Fullerton and hang everybody with no evidence of anything. They will learn that they will be run out of Fullerton faster than they came in. Get used to the American way. You talk shit to the police or fight them they will kick your ass. Get used to it. Nothing you can do.
“They are all clueless. They have had no power in life to do anything so they think they can come to this small town in Fullerton and hang everybody with no evidence of anything. They will learn that they will be run out of Fullerton faster than they came in. Get used to the American way.”
Sounds like you’re talking about the FPD for a second. Thought you were starting to make sense. What happens when I don’t fight and the FPD still kicks my ass, you still okay then?
Idgit.
Jaynbond: You are not alone. Many of us out here just don’t want to bother with those who are so close minded they want to bypass the justice system and, I think you said lynch the officers without due process.
Support the cops. Screw all these idiots. Go home before you get your ass kicked too by the cops. We can only hope you do.
I do try and hurry home so the dirty FPD cops don’t find me and beat me for no reason. Seems to happen in here.
if they were going to be lynched it would have happened already. dont be scared you got a gun right?
Thanks for suporting the Police Officers. They should know that what they do is appreciated.
Jaynbond on September 4, 2011
Fact – KT is dead. Fact – Police have not been charged. WHERE IS THAT BASEBALL BAT ?
Fact; KELLY THOMAS (the name you don’t have the courage to spell) IS dead. Yes he is.
Fact: Police have not been charged. (no they have not)
Fact: 80 or more eyewitnesses saw six FPD tasering, beating, kicking, knee-dropping Kelly Thomas, and SMASHING HIS FACE AND HEAD INTO THE STREET AND CONCRETE CURB.
Who do YOU think killed Kelly Thomas? The eye-witnesses? Another homeless person? He killed himself?
Fact: Kelly Thomas went into a coma before the police stopped the beating.
Fact: Severe head injuries may very well lead to a coma and/or death.
Fact: There were videos taken while the police beating of Kelly Thomas was taking place. Mind you these videos were shot during the commission of a MURDER.
Fact police confiscated as many of the videos as they could get their hands on, and no one has seen them since.
Why, Janie? Why would ANYONE try to cover up doing Right?
Fact: Taxpayers have been denied access to the video recording made with taxpayer monies.
Fact: Janie is the one who is too closed-minded to see the OBVIOUS. Kelly Thomas was killed by six uniformed armed FPD But, Janie can’t think for himself. Janie can’t add 2 + 2. Janie can only wait for someone else to tell him what to think.
Fact: The individual who posts as jaynbond, exhibits no moral compass, no human empathy, and in my opinion no evidence of a human soul. His posts read as written by a sociopath. Maybe he’s not a sociopath. But, then why does he write like one? 2+2=4?
…my Nostradamus gene has been working overtime after the thunderstorms this morning, and my intuition tell’s me that tomorrow is not going to be a good day to be a Fullerton Police Department sycophant.
If you “appreciate” 6 cops mercilessly bludgeoning a 140-lb. unarmed man to death, than you are one sick mf’er (or as others have surmised, one of the killer pigs yourself).
Xer: there you go, trying to get around the justice system again. You want to bypass the justice and due process for the officers.
You called it a “comission of murder.” Were you there? Did you see it happen? Did you see the head injuries? Have you read the reports? See the autopsy reports? See the FBI file?
It has already been stated that there is nothing that rises to the level of criminal negligence. Whay can’t you accept that?
Do you think that all of the people involved in this are in colusion? All of them? The Police Officers, the DA, the Chief, the coroner, the pathologist, the crime seen investigators, the FBI, the independent investigator? The State crime lab? All of them?????? Get real.
If i’m called a sociopath, well… I’ve been called worse. It’s okay.
Xer I do like your postings, keep it up. And I do have a moral compass. That is why I want to see the justice system work here.
…like what I was telling the CHIKEN on another post, we may all have a moral compass, it’s just that not all of them point true north.
“If i’m called a sociopath, well… I’ve been called worse. It’s okay.”
Really? Then, brother you really are a mess.
TELL US ONE GOOD THING THE POLICE FORCE DID FOR KELLY THOMAS OR FULLERTON THAT NIGHT>> JUST ONE!!!!!!!!
OR EVEN a faint one a glimmering hope of
I do wonder if they contacted next of kin to tell A FELLOW OFFICER that “hey, our boys, they .. your Son.. uh.. he RESISTED US.. we .. uym,,, ya see .. We beat your boy real bad.. SEE.. INTO A COMA… see.. and he is in the hospital ON LIFE SUPPORT ..
But I want you to know .. NONE of my fine men did anything wrong.. why do you think I watched the video with them and helped them get their stories straight so we could all go home and have tea with our children and such .. ”
WHEN Jay can do nothing but come in here with cop sperm on his bung and lips and talk shit about mental diseases and belittle the parents of an 37 year old adult that was
RESISTED TO DEATH
So, they aren’t murderers why did they make Kelly Thomas a CORPSE then?
Talk about NON BIAS.. wow.. have any of you ever tried to talk about any of the evidence that points to anything wrong the cops did.. EVER..
JAY DIDNT EVEN ANSWER ME.. he ran/RESISTED me when
1. I got him to AGREE that any time the police resist a person into a coma/life support which was really just a dog and pony show since Kelly Thomas was DEAD ON SCENE..
^that it MUST be investigated by the police department to the fullest methods.
2. When I told him that was fine and dandy BUT THAT HIS POLICE FORCE AND CITY HALL DIDN’T DO SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT .. that
Ron Thomas is the only reason this is being investigated…
He had nothing good or bad to say about his police farce and city hall not investigating this
..HE RESISTED REPLYING.. HE PLEADED his unbiased.. LOL 5th amendment rights ..
RESIST TO DEATH Case … they didn’t give a fuck just like Jay..
So, don’t let the cop trolls come in and claim to be IMPARTIAL NONBIASED and let them call you names and such
they have never said anything against the cops in this case even once and want to talk SHIT about the father of a THIRTY SEVEN year old man who was murdered by the cops.. how does he play into this..
was ron thomas SWINGING THE NIGHTSTICKS that night.. Fuck.. for all I know he could have been a brutalizer as a cop too.. AND I DONT CARE
I wont play your stupid game..
cops
kelly thomas..
are the only people who were involved in Kelly Thomas being killed in fulllerton streets at the hands of the fullerton police
“TUSSLE”
IF your son or daughter resisted arrest and was beaten to death what would you do when a STOOGE for the FPD writes in the article @ OCR afterwards that it was just a “TUSSLE” that killed your son or daughter..
IF JAYNBOND and KNOWN’ MORE ARE NOT PLANTS or .. if they are nonbiased..
LET THEM STEPUP NOW and list EVERYTHING THEY SEE THAT WENT WRONG THAT NIGHT from a citizens perspective – not the perspective of a person who “have 5 kids ALL PROFESSIONALS” TRUST ME.. that “professionals” SHOWED A LOT AGAIN… showed his
elitism
social structure beliefs
I truly sens Jay is a real shitwad in real life.. no care whatsoever for the homeless or mentally disturbed and from what I have learned about Universal Karma.. continue on this path and you will see your children develop mental disorders later in their lives or you will get alzheimers etc for being such a creep to people who needed compassion
stop letting them talk about shit that has nothing to do with the case.. they must fear mr thomas I guess? all they can do is talk shit about someone that was not present when his son was RESISTED TO DEATH by a gang of officers that work in fullerton, ca…
There WILL be more damning evidence coming out soon against the Fullerton Police Department! This info will come to us via ALL the media, ie. ABC, CBS, NBC, KTLA, KCAL, FOX News, CNN, etc. I highly doubt that their sources of this info will be from the DA or FBI though. I do believe this info will put heat on the DA to finish this up and bring TRUE (not Police) JUSTICE to this case. Trust me; it’s not a dream.
the sooner the better, for all concerned..
Not necessarily, that is not if justice for Thomas is the goal. The DA will face an uphill battle in trying to get an OC jury to convict. He will have to do it without the cooperation of any law enforcement officer/witnesses, in fact, he will have to consider all officers as hostile witnesses who will lie and change testimony at the last moment to save their brothers. This is why a strongly favorable to the prosecution coroner’s report is critical, as is a shockingly disturbing transportation center video. These two pieces of evidence might be enough if managed properly. And that means the DA should hold both close to the vest until trial.
I hope this evidence will also force them to release the tapes they have been sitting on for two months now. That is, if they haven’t been coveniently “lost” already.
#230
Our legal system is a failure for putting the DA in the position he is in.
A district attorney’s job first and foremost must be to befriend the police force as though they are his own children.
So, how is he expected to now honestly, unbiasedly, bring charges on his own children?? They are best buds .. and now we expect him to be MAN ENOUGH to bring ALL THE necessary charges?
WE/Society needs to change many things about the way police forces and city hall do business
district attorneys office should not investigate these cases.. we have already WITNESSED THE FRUIT OF THE DA.. not one charge in 15 years and let them try to railroad the wrong man just recently..
The DA let them write a FALSIFIED CASE against a man and let them take him to trial.. you really think he has a nonbiased bone in his body when it comes to his children in blue?
“Fullerton police admit cellphone video proves wrong man arrested”
look it up.. they filed charges and everything
Look this one up: People v. Christopher Hibbs
http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-04-16/news/moxley-confidential/
From the link above: “There is a blue wall of silence,” (deputy DA) Claustro said during his closing arguments, producing a huge graphic of a blue brick wall with a center area occupied by a man putting his vertical index finger to his lips. “I hate to talk to you about a code of silence. We don’t want to believe it happens. But it does.”
Anoymous wrote about the DA prosecuting excessive force cases: “not one charge in 15 years”
This is a fiction perpetrated by the FFF bloggers. I found three relatively recent cases without even trying, none resulting in convictions as the cop/witnesses were unreliable and essentially flat out lied or developed amnesia. The DA tried, but the ‘blue wall’ is real and OC juries tend to side with the police.
Vicarious Liability – Employers’ Liability for Wrongdoing of Employees
employer is vicariously liable for the negligent acts of his employee which cause injuries to a third party, provided that such acts were committed during the course of and within the scope of the employment!!
SAME UNION
SAME PENSIONS?
SAME CA RETIREMENT?
SAME HIRING AND FIRING AGENCIES?
*all but FBI
Is that correct?
Anonymous,
The next of kin WAS informed. The message was:
We are sad to report that your fathers suffered slight bruising/possibe fractures to their hands/wrists while commencing to beat a helpless individual into a coma. Please do not worry though, as this perpetrator/criminal who your fathers eventually murdered, will be charged with multiple felonies, and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. You have my promise.
Signed, Fullerton D.A. et al
Jaynbond, Get Used To It,
I just want to set the record straight here; I am NOT against law enforcement. I had the HONOR of wearing the badge, and I can tell you, I worked with some exemplary people who also saw the badge as I did. They did their jobs to the best of their abilities, and YES, they stayed WITHIN the law doing it. Then, there were the ones who looked upon the badge as POWER. They swaggered through the locker room, talking their shit, bragging how crime stats had dropped significantly since they were out on patrol. These individuals gave the dept., and their kind, a bad name, and were always being scrutinized for not only excessive force, but VERY questionable arrests. Illegal stops, searches, false charges and the such. When was the last time you heard of an officer, who suspecting some illegal activity in a certain residence, went up to that house, asked to use their bathroom under false pretences to ILLEGALLY enter said residence, then commenced to secretly search/tape the inside looking for evidence? I have had contact with an individual who this happened to.
It is this illegal behavior that the both of you HAD BETTER worry about if you get stopped by one or more of these kinds of officers late at night.
Law enforcement is sorely NEEDED in a civilized society. There are many bad elements in society who would do us and our loved ones harm, but these brave souls have dedicated themselves to combatting those criminal elements. I salute them all. Who I DON’T salute, are those individuals who wear the same badge, who become the enemy of the people. They are the ones who, when they enter the academy, drop all of their civilian friends, congregate with only those in their dept., drink and drive, abuse their spouses, and have this pervasive desire to outdo everyone else in the number of arrests, irregardless of whether it is a legitimate arrest, or came as a result of illegal means. The evidence then becomes, in legalese, the fruit of the poison tree. Evidence, obtained illegally, is therefore tainted, and has to to be thrown out.
I would sincerely hope that if you two gentlemen were on the jury, and you had clear evidence of an officer that committed perjury on the stand, in a case you were hearing, you would then take his whole testimony as false, and give it no weight or merit.
I will close for now, but IF you two are dedicated to justice and honor in this society as I am, then you have to call injustice what it is. I am not asking you to jump the gun, but a single man who died at the hands of 6 armed, trained, and bigger men IN UNIFORM, should send a shiver up your spine. It is an undeniable FACT. I do await your response.
Respectully Submitted
Well said 9c1.
I’ve heard it said that when it comes to personality type, it’s often a fine line between cop and criminal. Comment?
For the love of god and the rest of America. This must never be forgotten or swept under the carpet. Its time to hold these b…..ds accountable. I too was a victim of police brutality, and I assure all Americans that unless I find justice I pity you people. No I am not American.
Justice will be served, MGH. See if you think that our DA is trying to keep this under the carpet:
http://www.ocregister.com/video/c/1125901233/latest/1134683530001/crime-fullerton-news
Seems to me he would find another issue to talk about if he wasn’t going to bring serious charges.
MGH: If you are not American, get off the blog.
Searcher of Truth speaks caca. Welcome to the FFFF blog MGH!
MGH: Yes, you are welcome on this blog, especially with statements like your #251.
Yes, this IS America, and you are most welcome on here MGH.
Eye Never Say No,
That is true. Sometimes those lines get awfully blurry, sad to say. That is why INDEPENDENT oversite is so vital. If you look at INJUSTICE EVERYWHERE blogs, (just google the name), it shows that the Fullerton case is just a tip of the iceberg in crimes perpetrated by SOME of those behind the badge. Notice, I do not broad-brush anyone or profession, as there are people who truly care about others, and their moral, ethical, and decency compass would not allow them to sleep at nights if they were anything but upstanding.
Yes MGH you are most welcome here. Not only should this incident never be forgotten, it needs to set a precedent. Kill a man – go to prison. A murderer with a badge is a murderer nonetheless and should be prosecuted as such consistently. Not on a case by case basis. These cops simply don’t want to be accountable for their actions just because they wear a badge.
I have had my oldest son swooped on and surrounded by my own dept. for just driving along a road to his house at night. He was not speeding, but had a hotrod, and they tried to abuse him until he said that his dad was a retired deputy. This made them stop their shit IMMEDIATELY. This tells me they were up to no good.
Now, please, no one get the idea that my sons are not subject to the laws of this land; THEY ARE!! I have told them many times that if they break the law, they can get into trouble, and will have to pay the price for such actions. However, IF they are illegally stopped and harrassed, I want to know about it. I, myself, was stopped by my own dept. several times illegally, and only when I confronted those deputies regarding the probable cause, did they retreat. So, if it happens to anyone here, KNOW the law. Ask them what was the probable cause for the stop. If you have questions as to the legality, call their station, and have the Watch Commander respond to your location.
You are so full of it cop car. Your poor little kid doing nothing wrong. Get a clue. Your kid was screwing off, breaking the law, and he got what he deserved. I cited an LASO kid the other day for this same stuff. Acted like he owned the world. He will learn. The deputies had PC for the stop and your son talked shit. If he hadn’t, he wouldn’t have had an issue. Yes, call the watch commander. That’s me. But when I play the recording of your son being an asshole, you better get the hell out of the station.
Watch commander of what, Fullerton Cub Scouts Pack 1216?
Do you have evidence of this incident, Reality? I’m betting you don’t.
What city are you a watch commander in? I want to be sure to steer clear of that place. There’s only one thing worse than being falsely arrested and that’s being falsely arrested by a moron with an attitude.
If you are any kind of police officer or “Watch Commander” you sure succeeded in representing law enforcement in poor light in your post (#261) post. Congratulations, Know-it-all.
Wait…. lemme guess……… Fullerton!!!!
NICE, Abstract. When did you start blogging on here. Welcome aboard!
Thanks Wrong Guy. I started yesterday. These cops need to understand that their job is to “Protect and to Serve” not “Seek and Destroy” but I don’t think they’ll get it till one of them goes to prison.
9c1- I appreciate all your insight and advice. Thank you.
The world is listening and Fullerton we are hearing your pleas. To much power, and this is what happens. Its happening here in the UK as well, but we a committed to put a stop to it.
MGH,
We here in America, are behind you and your effort 100%.
This is what happens when we live in a society that believes in what law enforcement does and says. No one questions that as a matter of fact how many of you have applauded when cops beat up a criminal and then say things like good, ef him, on and on. Well it is kind of like a small child in the sand box that keeps throwing sand at another child and the parents go oh how cute. In other words we condone the bahavior and so then when abhorrent things like this happen what is one to think? Well the cops thought that everyone was going to approve of their behavior, after all we have all cheerleaded for them when they beat up a known criminal. This was what the babboons in blue the heroes as they are called thought.
The sounds of a Taser can be heard, along with Kelly Thomas beg those 6 officers, ‘Please, please, please God, I’m sorry, I’m sorry,'” and screaming and then yelling, “Dad! … Dad! … Dad!”in his last breath and desperation from the heart? You would be so heartbroken to know your child died crying out for you, and you wasn’t there to help them.
When Fullerton polices and officials smell blood from your nostril, they are going wild and out of control. Begging will only make it worse like dumping fuel on fire on these cops.
One officer supposedly beat Kelly Thomas with the butt of his Taser until blood started coming up all over the officer’s arms and hands. Another officer supposedly drop knees Kelly Thomas’ nose and throat with the full force of his body weight multiple times, crushing the victim’s throat.
This happened while Kelly Thomas was not moving or resisting. When a group of you jump,beat, and kill a guy, its called murder. When sadistic cops do it, its called resisting arrest.
If you think Hitler is bad…read on.
I have been away on vacation for 3 weeks and am happy to see this blog still going strong. Unfortunately, I personally believe only minor charges will be made since the DA generally frowns on charging the very group he needs to work with. So I see minor charges that may not reach involuntary manslaughter. However, the fact that the Thomas lawyer has a case involving Fullerton PD lying in a related case, then this monster case tells me it will be settled without trial. It will simply be too embarassing for the current city council to go through a months long civil trial in the newspapers and fed all over the world. The settlement amount will really hurt property and business owners because Fullerton is a self insured city. This could reach into the $10,000,000 size award. You have a crappy police chief appointed by city council buddies who takes a vacation after the incident then when the crap flies takes a sick leave so he cannot be fired. You have a spokesperson for PD that represents the Union, not all the PD. You have 80 witnesses who are not allowed to view tapes but officers who are allowed to view the tapes and collaberate with each other before giving their statements. All that does is drive up the settlement costs.
You also have a bereaved father who is an ex deputy so knows the “system”, also an officer with one eye which any juror will ask “how did he qualify for his job?” So it will never see a jury, but will be bought off with good old taxpayers money. If I lived in Fullerton, I would be very very upset with your Mayor and City Council. They are ultimately responsible.
You have a very good point, Paul but you have to remember that Ron Thomas is not going to be bought off for any amount of money. He and his attorney are going to see this to the end and there’s nothing the DA can do about that except try to defend the officers’ (and I use that term loosely) actions. It WILL be brought in front of a jury if Ron Thomas has anything to say about it. Also remember that the FBI is involved so this can be taken to a federal level. I took all this space just to say “I hope you’re wrong” and I believe you hope you’re wrong too.”
FWIW.. the DA should have found a way to bring them up on perjury then 😉
IMHO.. He knows what they are going to do when he brings the charges.. he probably even tells their Capt etc his case before he puts it on trial.. they are all the same GANG 🙂
I bet his success rate convicting citizens is light years ahead of convicting his blue friends
“I bet his success rate convicting citizens is light years ahead of convicting his blue friends.”
Yes, I’m certain that it is, it’s not hard to beat by light years a zero percent success rate, eh? But it’s not necessarily because they are part of the same “gang.” It’s because jury’s tend to believe cops when they get on the stand. Most of the time this works out well for the cause of justice, but definitely not so much when the defendant is a fellow cop.
Just try to imagine how frustrated the deputy DA in the Hibbs case must have had to have been to get up in front of the jury during closing in the Hibbs case and openly charge the cop/witnesses in that case with lying and participating in “a blue wall of silence.” He directly attacked the very people he has to work with every day to do his job and get convictions.
Look, I want very badly to see justice for Thomas in the form of seroius charges and convictions for the officers involved, but I also think that understanding the actual dynamic at work here, not the too easy ‘conspiratorial us against them’ blather, is key to changing the way things are.
After all, it’s the too easy ‘us against them, we are the good guys and they are the bad guys’ cop view that in their minds justifies the ‘blue wall.’ IMO, we should all try not to embrace and become that which we rightly criticize. If we do, nothing will ever really change for the better.
Oink oink
ACLU says cops will always fight against a civilian review board but will eventually lose. If it has power, which it would, it works. Wouldn’t be expensive at all, it would save a lot of money since we would be getting rid of bad officers.
Change is coming. We know you don’t want it, but it doesn’t matter.
I don’t mind them. Their power is limited. They don’t get access to everything like you think and don’t make decisions like you think. I know from researching them it’s just another layer of politics to fight through for the public. You have remember the commission is chosen by the council in cities like Fullerton. It wouldn’t be like lapds commission. Just take 10 local cities and see if they have them and if they do, how they operate. Most cities look into them and abandon the idea for various reasons.
They vary tremendously. They can be formed from the start with a high level of access and broader powers. They can demand and enforce total transparency between the police, the board, and the citizenry. The citizens can pressure city council to only appoint serious individuals with no conflicts of interest or insider connections. A good defense lawyer might make a nice addition. Maybe someone who’s come up against perjuring officers before. And maybe a police brutality researcher or activist. I can imagine a board that could change the culture of FPD quite radically.
91c What do you consider to be “illegally stopped?”
Jus Wondering… If MGH had said they were a police supporter and wanted to see the justice system takes its course and we should all be supporting the police until the DA comes in with or without charges… What would you say to that? Jus Wonderin’.
Hibbs played the script.. it is a possibility..
I do apologize if the case was presented as well or better than any of the civilians they try…
DA and Sheriff etc can easily make a dog and pony show out of shit if they want to.
*************************************************
“I don’t appreciate those comments,” Hutchens said. “I don’t believe there is (a code of silence). If any of our deputies acted inappropriately, we will take care of it in an administrative manner.”
KEYWORD
ADMINISTRATIVE..
That quote right there.. said in no broken English
“get the fuck out of our internal affairs. If anything goes wrong here.. stay out and we take care of our own”
Maybe reading a lot into it BUT
SHE IS the Coroner in the Kelly Thomas case?? The autopsy report conveniently has not been supplied yet.. hmmm a
🙂
and another thing.. who .. what..
they dropped the case??
Why do some of you bring it up as though it showed the DA as tough on the cops while acknowledging the blue line.. come on.. lol yall
He had already worked there like 13 years?
Show me one ONE person that wants to leave their GOVERNMENT job.. one??
Would they lie to keep it..
Cover up for fellow employees to keep it
Aid and abet fellow employees to steal money from taxpayers even though they are already overpaid
Blue Line is bigger than you think
Just like Mainstream Media tells you what to think
True. Not just police though. All jobs, all sectors, everywhere is the same. Same patterns everywhere.
Wrong. Most government employees don’t beat homeless schizophrenics to death. Most private citizens don’t either. Not the same pattern at all. Rogue officer in a rogue department – lawleless psychopaths who mistakenly think everybody is like them. We’re not. We’re better than you. Deal with it.
Most schizophrenics don’t fight and assault and run from the police either. Lawless mentally ill nut jobs. Just like anyone else if a nut job goes wild and crazy, doesn’t mean you or the cops or your child needs to get hurt. The nut needs to get hurt if that’s what it takes to take him to jail. Deal with it.
quote from hutchens was taken from this link
http://www2.ocregister.com/articles/hibbs-lares-emami-2367207-car-taser
I have worked in mental health for years. I am an over weight, middle aged woman. Our staff have NEVER used a taser, gun, or billy club….no weapons, only our words and our skill to restrain clients with schizophrenia. If I can do it by myself without even leaving a bruise….enuff said, right? So embarrassing to see the excuses….ANY mental health professional will tell you….it’s not that hard. C’mon folks…be honest.
How the hell are the cops supposed to know that he has a mental disorder?
I love science fiction!
Blah….they are trained to know such things.
and frankly….it doesn’t matter….you can restrain without killing. Do. Your. Job. Have integrity….stop reacting like a scared 1st grader. Stay calm and do what you are trained to do. I have to do that every day….
As far as one eyed officers in the city of Fullerton, you all SHOLD know that Jay Cicinelli is NOT the only one.
Officer Tak Kim has been on the department since I was in high school in the early 80’s,..He WAS a motor officer, I know this because he wrote me my first ticket. Some weeks later he was doing a training excercise on the motor in the City Of FUllerton in the oil fields, and crashed the bike,..in that accident, he lost his eye,…He NOT ONLY wasnt put off or retired on disability, but eventually promoted to Sgt.
I ALWAYS thought that was odd as Police Officers (one would think) need to rely on their eyesite for a multitude of reasons,..JUST one of which is driving vehicles at high rates of speed,..and of course using their weapons,….