Going Into Labor, Part I – The Problem


I have always been fascinated by the urge for government employees and their die-hard supporters to cling to the notion of collective bargaining as some sort of birthright. The ability for public employees to unionize is actually not even that old, but is a comparatively recent and curious chapter in the history of organized labor.

Classical Marxist doctrine holds that in the capitalist phase of history there are two elements contributing to economic activity. There are capital and labor; the first representing the bourgeois investment class (and their managerial overseers); the second is the workforce that sells its labor to the former. Naturally, the cost of labor , the investment of the capitalists, and the return the latter is willing to accept determine the supply side cost of goods.

The Marxists believed that capital habitually exploited an oversupply of labor through poor working conditions and long hours of employment. There was certainly evidence to support this contention and the capitalists did their best to outlaw labor “combination” through their control of legislatures.

(For the sake of argument I will happily stipulate the socialist fact in evidence.)

Of course labor did combine.

But the idea of government workers unionizing did not enter the into the equation. Why? For several reasons, one of which is succinctly stated by the most effective liberal in American history, Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

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Roosevelt realized that people who work for the government cannot hold the same employer/employee relationship since their employer is the people as a sovereign whole. Clearly the idea of collective bargaining, and particularly militant union tactics used against the citizenry was abhorrent to old FDR himself.

Another related problem is that government employees do not fit into the labor-capital equation, since the “capitalist” investor in their operation is none other than the taxpayers and citizens – and not a natural adversary in an economic system. And public employees were granted civil service protection and security to make up for comparatively modest wages.

Cornering the market…

And then there is the problem of the complete public sector labor monopoly. Producers of goods compete with each other in marketplaces that, among other things, sets a value on product that helps determine the cost of labor. No such balance exists in the public sector where nothing is for sale and there is no competition in the labor market at all.

The ability to unionize and the concomitant ability to engage in collective political action has enabled the public sector labor monopoly to elect its favored candidates at all levels, and subsequently to exact greater and greater salaries and benefits for themselves; and always using the argument that all they seek is parity with the private sector. Yet never have they jettisoned the civil service protections that makes in almost impossible to fire an incompetent public worker.

Most comical are the “management” unions that represent the upper tier employees who oversee the lower, and whose own interests in running the “company” are inexplicably linked with the benefits conferred upon the latter!

We didn’t do it!

And so dear Friends, next time you see a “retired” 50 year old cop who was granted almost 100% of his salary as a pension, and who was given two decades of retroactive benefits, ask him whom he has to thank. I guarantee it won’t be you, or even the other public employees who negotiated his benefits on your behalf; nor even the lackeys on the city council like Don Bankhead, Dick Jones, and Jan Flory whom his union got elected. Nuh, uh. He will thank an anonymous “system” that has created this mess and that has virtually bankrupt California and threatens almost every municipality in the state.

Well, we know who to thank.

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  1. #1 by KL on September 6, 2012

    I think at one time, labor unions were valuable and fought effectively for needed rights for their groups. I don’t believe it’s the case anymore and in fact are doing more harm than good. I know y’all hate Scott Walker here, but you really have to thank him for starting the change for sanity.

  2. #2 by Info Warrior on September 6, 2012

    Just look in the mirror and you’ll see who is to blame. The real piss off here is that it happened on our watch. Shame on us for letting the fox watch the hen house while we partied.
    Someone get a rope, it’s time to take back what’s ours.

  3. #3 by Info Warrior on September 6, 2012

    KL you nailed it there… even regular, not civil servant, unions have been become too powerful and too much of a business, and my grandfather always said, ” if you want to ruin a good thing, let a businessman run it”.

  4. #4 by Anonymous on September 6, 2012

    Good post!

  5. #5 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Good post!! They thank everyone. They started out in the 90′s with a low wage and crappy benefits, and thanks to a good economy they rose to a fair wage and reasonable benefits. Thank you to everyone!! Just ask the old cops that retired, they will tell you over coffee each morning! Thank you they will say, thank you!! God Bless the USA!!

    :)

  6. #6 by The Fullertonista on September 6, 2012

    Great read Joe, thanks.

    Coincidentally also read this fine blog post on unions yesterday: http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com/2012/06/3087/

  7. #7 by Hollis Dugan on September 6, 2012

    Reading the post causes me to think of the hysterical response the police union had in Fullerton merely to the idea that a competitive bid be sought from the Sheriff. Our union cant even tolerate the idea of comparing themselves to another union offering the exact same services.

  8. #8 by Concerned Texan on September 6, 2012

    If you have ever watched the documentary “Food Inc.,” they explain how the meat packing industry changed from a dangerous job to a much safer job, but has now reverted back to a very dangerous occupation due to deregulation. I believe they argued that the average worker in a meat plant today has conditions which have actually worsened comparatively beyond the point when industry first started. I wish there were unions still around to actually protect the few subsets of workers who actually need them today instead of those unions which actually work to preserve a bloated and perverse group of overly protected government employees.

  9. #9 by Boring on September 6, 2012

    Yawn….

  10. #10 by Fullerton Lover on September 6, 2012

    Should I go into the tepid response that a citizen can expect to receive from the civil servant if residents don’t capitulate to their demands?

    I adorned my yard this Spring with “Support the Fullerton Recall”, “Greg Sebourn for City Council”, and Travis Kiger for City Council campaign signs, and found that even the guy that drives the street sweeping truck through my neighborhood won’t wave at me anymore.

  11. #11 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    But hey, pension reform was just completed!! LOL

    :)

  12. #12 by duh.... on September 6, 2012

    FL you get what you pay for! Hope you don’t have an emergency and you get an $8 dollar an hour security guard showing up. Good luck with that! Or with the sheriff it will take 10x as long for a response. Be careful what you wish for.

  13. #13 by PittBull on September 6, 2012

    Well, when the politicians and government CEO’s (appointed by those politicians) who are sworn to represent the taxpaying public during collective bargaining negotiations with the public unions are literally bought off by those same public unions – essentially what you have are Dracula and Frankenstein at the negotiating table making decisions about what to do with the taxpayer’s money. You end up with a workforce of unproductive people whom it is practically impossible to fire with large salaries and pensions that are unheard of in the private sector for the common worker with similar skill sets.

    Your political system is broken and your average voter is an idiot. Hence, the system is being looted.

  14. #14 by Richard Daley on September 6, 2012

    What change? Yes, the teachers, etc. However, that’s where the bromance needs to end. Walker is heavily funded by public safety unions and has publicly vowed not to touch their collective bargaining, etc. I think you’re sarcastic about people hating Walker on this site as a lot of people who post here would suck his toes.

  15. #15 by EJ on September 6, 2012

    Gov’t a-holes!!

  16. #16 by Richard Daley on September 6, 2012

    “duh…” Don’t give is the $8 an hour security guard song and dance. That’s one of the mantras that got us here. You sound like that police union law firm. Let’s get real, an FBI special agent makes 43,141 plus locality pay right out of Quantico. Who’s screwing who? The FBI agent is better educated, typically, and goes through much more difficult training for generally less money than a muni police officer.

  17. #17 by Fullerton Lover on September 6, 2012

    Right now I’m paying top dollar for civil servants who treat me with contempt and give me poor service.

    The laughable part is that civil servants are still not happy with what they’ve been given, and have become like spoiled children that are continually crying out for more, and refusing to behave unless you cave into their demands.

    Gratitude and attitude are always inversely related.

  18. #18 by officer krupke on September 6, 2012

    This pension reform is going nowhere. Most voters are to lazy and dumb to get involved.
    ACCEPT REALITY THE FPD OWN THE CITY COUNCIL AND THEY OWN FULLERTON.
    MOVE ON.

  19. #19 by officer krupke on September 6, 2012

    duh…. :
    FL you get what you pay for! Hope you don’t have an emergency and you get an $8 dollar an hour security guard showing up. Good luck with that! Or with the sheriff it will take 10x as long for a response. Be careful what you wish for.

    AS LONG AS HE IS SOBER AND NOT A THIEF OR PERVERT IN BLUE.

  20. #20 by Fullerton Lover on September 6, 2012

    I agree with 99% of your post/statement Pitbull.

    The only thing I would change is that it is “our” political system, and we’re the one’s that are going to have to be responsible for correcting the path we’re on.

  21. #21 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Just wait til you get OCSD. You will see what slow service is. But hey you saved money and got less cops in the city with worse time responses. Give and take. Biggest thing will be no more complaining in Fullerton about the cops pay and benefits and pensions. Cause with OCSD you have no say in that. If they get raises they all get raises. You just pay the bill that comes in the mail and that’s what you get. The jail deputies should be able to kick some azz in DTF though. :-)

  22. #22 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Very true FL. Everyone blames the politicians and the unions for the current status of the world. If everyone would have cared the last 20 years, things might be how you want them now. Too late to revert back to 20 year ago pay and benefits in one year. Things will now stay status quo as they are. But hey the big pension reform bill was approved. Progress right?

    :-)

  23. #23 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Not true. TBush and his team bought 3 council members. One said thanks and went on his own. 2 still do as TBush says. November will dictate the future.

    :-)

  24. #24 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    $43k plus $100k in OT traveling around the world. Not a bad gig outside of having to travel all the time.

  25. #25 by Richard Daley on September 6, 2012

    Porky,

    My home of record was: Airport Hilton (Insert Name Here).

  26. #26 by Michael Liberty on September 6, 2012

    GREAT POST ADMIN!!!

  27. #27 by Fullerton Lover on September 6, 2012

    I don’t advocate changing to OCSD. To me that’s throwing the baby out with the bath water.

    I believe in first trying to correct and reform whatever is wrong with the police department we currently have.

  28. #28 by truthseeker on September 6, 2012

    You are correct. The 16 trillion dollar question is when the loot turns into toilet paper. The money is gone, Fort Knox is empty and when China dumps our debt we will be Argentina overnight. Enjoy the methylene chloride in your decalf as it picks up the BPA on the way through the plastic parts of the coffee maker. The reckoning is upon us. The booze is flowing faster than ever. The Miller plant in Irwindale is going 24/7 and can’t even put a dent in the demand.

  29. #29 by PittBull on September 6, 2012

    Let me take this a step ahead and give you the solution.

    Easy.

    Use the private sector retirement system as the gold standard. Cap all public pensions @ $30,000 (just like social security it today regardless of salary) and throw in a 401-k equivalent for public workers with a 3% government contribution for the first 3% contribution by the employee. The 401-k equivalent should be optional just like it is in the private sector.

    It is the private sector that finances all of the public sector programs. If not for the private sector the public sector would collapse tomorrow. Therefore, the private sector should rightfully be the gold standard.

    Today’s system is a corrupted system. The public workforce are America’s communists in an economic sense. In the old Soviet Union the communist party members were always given an economic advantage. Just like public workers in America today.

  30. #30 by van get it da artiste on September 6, 2012

    excellent post!
    first, there are no public employees, only public servants. Persons choose to enter public service, they are not drafted into positions of police officer, firefighter, teacher and so on.
    Ideally, persons who opted for jobs in the public sector originally did so because he or she believed serving the government was a noble gesture on their part towards others.
    In exchange for this sacrifice of big bucks in the private sector, was job security, benefits and a pension.
    so what happened?
    I believe after World War 2, and though this phrase is so well-worn it sounds trite, the military-industrial complex bloomed and suddenly and increasingly the private sector became enmeshed with government contracts.
    the military-industrial complex seen in the defense industry set the precedent for further government intrusion into what once was the sole domain of the private sector.
    College education and the GI Bill spurred expansion of higher level public education, housing construction boomed with government backed loans (FHA). Direct recipients of government were: defense industry, higher education, housing construction.
    Continuing in the spirit of FDR, President Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society further expanded government intrusion into areas of health and welfare. Johnson’s war on poverty involved government in pre-school, subsidized housing and health care. The war on poverty resulted in permanently bloated welfare rolls.
    A few decades later and until recently, government intruded into towns’ and cities’ aesthetics with its redevelopment monies(AKA our tax dollars taken from those in the private sector).
    As government intruded into the private sector, the more bloated it became and the populace increasingly forced into a dependence on government for health, welfare, housing, education.
    It is not coincidence as government intruded more into private lives and private sector, the more powerful it became until at all levels of government the public servant now became our masters who took more of our money from us earned by our labor. Government calls this taxes. As government became more powerful, it regulated more and more the minutiae of our lives. failure to obey all the regulations, petty laws resulted in more money for government via fines, penalties, court settlements by those who dare rebel against government’s dictates.
    The new exploitive class is not capitalists but public servants

  31. #31 by to hear one who comforts on September 6, 2012

    Dear Mr. Sipowicz – Thank you for the quick lessons in 19th and early 20th century political/economic theory. You could have cut to the chase in your posting by simply stating that government worker & educator unions have far surpassed the goals of unionization as it was in the 19th and 20th centuries and evolved into very powerful lobbyists who have and will continue to apply pressure on government on all levels out of proportion to their role in society.

    The problem is … how do you bring the system back into balance where workers have reasonable protection and citizens pay a reasonable price for the workers’ services.

  32. #32 by to hear one who comforts on September 6, 2012

    Damn…. if we’d only paid attention to Eisenhower when he left the presidency. In essence the message was beware of the military-industrial complex. Ironic considering he was one of the early architects of this ‘complex’.

  33. #33 by Anonymous on September 6, 2012

    Nice post from a one-armed, PTSD, drunken gun store employee!

  34. #34 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    Some of you may know that I have lived for 22 years in the old communist CzechoSlovakia.

    Automatically, many of you would assume that in a communist system there is no need for unions because there are no adversarial forces between the labor and the government who owned the industry.

    Wrong!

    There to was/is strong union named ROH (Revoluční odborové hnutí) Revolutionary Union Movement literally in English.

    In retrospect, I must say that ROH, which I hated because as young person I hated to pay dues, was actually adversarial force to the communists system to a certain respect.

    Theoretically, in my days, the population was about 13M and 2M of communists and everyone else who worked was mandatory a member of ROH. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolu%C4%8Dn%C3%AD_odborov%C3%A9_hnut%C3%AD

    Because the unions are usually only monopoly on power (not counting a Church) they are dangerous as shown throughout the history, in all social settings, where such danger is creeping on us today as it was on Germany in 30′s.

    It was German Workers Union which brought Hitler to the power and gave a foundation to a NAZISM.

    The unions in Europe were always in a forefront of any atrocities committed there — millions and millions dead. Even in China the Mao revolution in 60′s was done by the unionized youth.

    So if we want to learn from history we must repeal JFK law which allowed for unions to exists in public sector and closely regulate unions in private sector if we do not want to end up like in China, Russia and Germany.

    That will of-course not happen because power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    But, there is a hope that public sector unions may self destruct by destroying the government who will bankrupt same like virus will kill its host.

    That is why we need 4 more years of Obama and in California idiot Brown who started public sector unions here.

    The people are too stupid to do anything about it which will be clearly evident from their comment here where 400 comments will produce 400 fragmented opinions on what to do about it.

    No unity against the unified unions!

    Only bankruptcy will bring a change same like desolation of the communist block in late 80′s.

  35. #35 by Anaheim officers involved in fatal shootings back on the job on September 6, 2012

    Anaheim Police Sgt. Bob Dunn said he did not know exactly when the two officers returned but said it had been “a couple of weeks.” He declined to provide their names but described both as veteran police officers.

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/09/anaheim-police-officers-fatal-shootings.html

  36. #36 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “Be careful what you wish for”………. Hmmmmm

    I wish to fire everyone you have described in your comment “duh”.

    That works better than pay increases and unlimited pension.

  37. #37 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Not surprised the one shooting guys are back on the streets. That was a great shooting. I’m surprised they put the other cop back on but I guess it’s clear what he saw and the threat. Carry on.

  38. #38 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    San Bernardino is the first bankruptcy locally. All cities are watching. I predict the number of cops will decrease but the pay and benefits will decrease by 10%. They are PERS so I don’t see many changes to the existing pensions. Just them paying their 9%. We will see.

  39. #39 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    If that is true and it’s going to happen no matter what then everyone just needs to enjoy the world while we can, spend every dollar we have, and just wait for the world to blow up and poverty for all. I think I’ve been doing that my whole life already.

    SlideBar to celebrate?

    :-)

  40. #40 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Yes. Mine too. My accounting degree led me to the FBI and years of traveling non stop. Made great money but the traveling got old.

  41. #41 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Amen.

  42. #42 by truthseeker on September 6, 2012

    16 Trillion and no one wants to budge-how long was there an open bar on the Titanic? From cozy warm velvety plush seats dining on caviar and sipping cognac to the frigid waters where hypothermia was waiting in just a matter of minutes was the fate of the unsuspecting on that fateful voyage. The military industrial complex’s orgy of spending, the Federal Reserve’s debt based currency and yes lastly the “public employee unions” are the final nails in the coffin of the US economy. The world will not blow up, you will simply starve to death. “A denaris for a loaf of bread”-Have you tried producing your own food lately? It is very difficult especially if the water goes off. Does anyone in their right mind actually think things can continue as they have been in the past? The tax base is eroding faster than a Louisanna levee in a flood, the jobs are taking the concord out of the country, the medical costs are skyrocketing all the while the food and drug companies assure the destruction of public health and money comes into existence only out of debt being created. Did public education do this to everyone?

  43. #43 by Tuco Ramirez on September 6, 2012

    The lawsuit against anaheim has already been filed. It will be paid for and all sides will agree not to discuss the case. The amount will not matter since Anaheim is flush with dollars from the 18% hotel bed tax! The bed tax makes up 50% of the Anaheim budget.
    Kudos to the Police Chief who used some common sense to calm down the protestors and to the mayor for apologizing without admitting guilt. If Worthless Chief Sellers and Mayor Dinosaur Jones had done the same, the Kelly Thomas incident would not have been all over newspapers and electronic news for months. Fullerton would have not looked to the world like a bunch of dummies and likely the dinosaurs would still be in office.
    On another note: Tuco is beginning to like Stanley Fiala’s posts. Sometimes they actually make sense!

  44. #44 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    This is a good idea. Take away pensions and medical for all elected officials. Make them prove they do it for free. :-)

    Rancho Cucamonga council amends CalPERS contract to exclude future electeds

    By Neil Nisperos, Staff Writer
    Created:   09/06/2012 01:46:50 AM PDT

    The Rancho Cucamonga City Council on Wednesday unanimously voted to adopt an amendment to the city’s current contract with the California Public Employees’ Retirement System to exclude any elected official elected after October 6, 2012, from membership with the pension system.
    Elected officials currently have the option of receiving retirement benefits through the city’ s current contract with CaIPERS. As part of city efforts to reduce long term pension obligations, the City Council has directed staff to explore the possibility of excluding elected officials from CaIPERS membership.

    Elected officials currently enrolled as CaIPERS members cannot be excluded but that the City’s contract can be amended to exclude future elected officials.

    The City Council adopted a resolution of intent to amend this contract on Aug. 1. The effective date of the approved amendment will be Oct. 6, 2012.

  45. #45 by Anonymous on September 6, 2012

    Hmmm… You would’nt be Michael Sellars would you?

  46. #46 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Is this Fullerton’s law firm? I guess they can afford to lose Fullerton now.

    Upland approves new city attorney contract

    Sandra Emerson, Staff Writer
    Created:   09/05/2012 08:39:53 AM PDT

    Read the document: Council agenda, with contract (.pdf file)
    UPLAND – The City Council has approved a three-year contract with Fullerton-based law firm Jones & Mayer for city attorney services.

    Kimberly Hall Barlow, who also represents Stanton, will be sworn in as the city attorney at Monday’s council meeting.

    Council members approved the contract at their Tuesday night special meeting.

    “I’m very excited and I’m very pleased that the council chose my firm,” Barlow said.

    “We feel that we will bring a new level of legal services to the city and hopefully help them gain immediate control over their legal expenses.”

    The firm will provide basic city attorney services such as reading through agreements and attending council meetings. If the city faces litigation, then the city attorney would assist in retaining outside counsel.

    The city went out to bid for city attorney services in April after years of steep legal fees and questions surrounding the billing practices of its law firm, Los Angeles-based Richards Watson & Gershon.

    The city paid the firm about $7.9 million since June 2003. The law firm has been the city’s legal counsel since 1993, and William Curley served as city attorney since 2003.

    Council members interviewed six law firms before settling on Jones & Mayer, which also serves as the city’s prosecutor.

    “I think Kimberly will be a huge asset to the city of Upland,” Councilwoman Debbie Stone said. “I think she’ll do a great job for us.”

    The contract outlines various billing amounts and practices:

    The city will pay the firm $15,000 monthly for basic legal services.
    The city will pay $150 per hour for code enforcement matters, with a monthly cap of $5,000.
    The firm will provide a monthly billing report.
    Barlow said the firm will look at potential legal issues to keep the city’s legal costs down.

    “You can’t always stop people from suing, but we’ve had a very successful record in bringing litigation costs down for our clients, and we’re looking forward to doing that here,” she said.

    She said a decrease in fees may take some time.

    “I think, especially as some of these pending cases get resolved, and ultimately all will in one way or another, then they will be seeing that decrease and hopefully better service and the citizens will feel happier about how things are going for them,” she said.

    Richards Watson & Gershon has agreed to continue representing the city, free of charge, in the case against Upland-based medical marijuana cooperative G3 Holistic, which is set to be heard by the state Supreme Court. The city has spent nearly half a million dollars fighting medical marijuana cooperatives in the city.

    The firm will also continue representing the city against the San Bernardino County Flood Control District, which has cost the city $5 million in legal fees. The district is suing Upland, San Bernardino Associated Governments and Caltrans over a settlement the county made in 2006 with Rancho Cucamonga developers Colonies Partners LP over storm drain improvements made at the Colonies commercial and residential project in the city.

  47. #47 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Would make sense since I’ve been here 24/7 since his retirement huh? Ask TBush. He says I’m like 20 people. Depends on the day.

    :-)

  48. #48 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    I believe it will all work out ok for everyone. Think positive.

  49. #49 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “San Bernardino is the first bankruptcy locally”……… Hmmmmmm

    That is not a bankruptcy which I am talking about!

    That is Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection and reorganization rather than Chapter 7 liquidation which is not available to the municipalities.

    We need total collapse which only ultra left can bring.

    The problem is that Obama and Feds are preventing this from happening by dumping money from the helicopter on it as Bernanke promised.

    If we are lucky it will burst!

    Otherwise our living standard will equal to the Mexico for decades if not for ever judging from history like Hellas, Roman empire — Italy, etc. etc. etc.

  50. #50 by to hear one who comforts on September 6, 2012

    Who’s the ‘drunken gun store employee’?

  51. #51 by truthseeker on September 6, 2012

    I do and that is why I support and elect fiscally conservative libertarians who gnaw away at the frontal assault on ours and our children’s future. You should too and realize that what is unsustainable is unsustainable.

  52. #52 by to hear one who comforts on September 6, 2012

    Back in the 70s when I was a graduate poli sci major, the comparison between California’s problems with public sector employees and the the failure of communism in eastern Europe could make a rock solid graduate thesis.

    Very insightful observation

  53. #53 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “Very insightful observation”……….. Hmmmmm

    Believe it or not, it was chewing gum, blue jeans and rock n’ roll which totally destroyed the Soviet block!

    Do not believe any other spin!

    I know I was there!

  54. #54 by PittBull on September 6, 2012

    Have you ever heard a public worker publicly thank the taxpayers for giving them a job with bullet-proof job security, high salaries, a great pension at 55 and benefits? I haven’t.

    They are probably the most ungrateful workers on planet earth. For they are the ‘entitled ones’. Even if they feigned appreciation I would feel better about paying taxes and providing for their financial security. But they don’t even feign it. The height of human arrogance.

  55. #55 by Fullerton Lover on September 6, 2012

    That was a very interesting post Stanley Fiala.

    I know that Greg Diamond is what he is, and I certainly do appreciate some of your comical responses to him, however when I see you post such intelligent writings like this one, I think you do yourself and us a disservice by not posting about real issues that we all can relate to, rather than your issues with Greg.

  56. #56 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    I hear it all the time in discussions with them. You want each one to hold a press conference each month thanking you?

  57. #57 by nipsey on September 6, 2012

    So you’re planning on hanging yourself?

  58. #58 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Don’t forget just 3 years ago public workers were considered fairly compensated employees. Now they are highly compensated employees. So they always appreciated their 1-3% raises every year or so but by no means did they or the public see that as being high pay raises or above what the private sector was getting at the time. If it was there would have been outrage. It’s just now they are high paid because the economy crashed.

  59. #59 by nipsey on September 6, 2012

    But, but you just dont understand. You would not get the same high level of customer service with OCSD as you would with the friendly and responsive lads at your local PD. All you’d be doing is saving over 100 million dollars in ten years, what a waste of time.

  60. #60 by Creepo Cop Lawyer on September 6, 2012

    Porky Pig :
    Don’t forget just 3 years ago public workers were considered fairly compensated employees.

    Considered by who? Themselves? I don’t know anyone who ever thought a 90% pension at 50 was reasonable.

  61. #61 by nipsey on September 6, 2012

    Yeah it’s exciting watching all of Tony’s personalities and all of Sellers/O’Malley/Dave Ellis’ personalities duke it out.

    Tony

  62. #62 by nipsey on September 6, 2012

    The city council members who approved it, for starters.

  63. #63 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Lol

  64. #64 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Thats possible. However, apples to apples haven’t been compared yet. No one knows if they could save 10 million. That’s just hallway talk. In the old days Sheriffs would come in with a low bid to entice the change then raise the ratess each year where in the long un they were actually more expensive. Now the Sheriffs are broke to so they are more careful but they still have a % increase every year. Times are tough so the % is clearly in the small print. They also provide fewer cops because they can borrow from other cities they patrol in time of need.

  65. #65 by simmons on September 6, 2012

    I understand your position but I contend UNIONS have NEVER been good for this country and they never will be.

    I have always thought that the State of California would be OK as there are just too many entrepreneurs in California for it to do too badly.

    However, if any force can bring down the State of California, it is the Public Sector Unions such as the ones that have forced Fullerton to pay Police and public employees like Kings.

    Get rid of the public sector unions in California and the state will recover in record time.

    I do not like private sector unions either but at least there is a check to their power . . . competition.

    There is no effective competition in the public sector, especially when the public sector unions have the power to elect their puppets into power. The only check to public sector unions is to bankrupt the private sector that pays for the union demanded circuses.

    Think about, the Police, while they perform an important service, do not make a product and do absolutely NOTHING to increase the wealth of Fullerton. In fact, Police and other public employees are leeches on the private sector and when the leeches start sucking out more blood than the private sector can make the entire system dies.

    Thus, the private sector suckers should work hard like good slaves and send their money to the government leeches. Who cares if the sucker making minimum wage has to work two jobs until they are 70 while his/her kids skip college to get right to work to pay taxes so that the Fullerton Police can have their 6 figure salaries (retire a 50 with full pay and benefits) to run around being thugs abusing the public and killing the homeless.

    After all, they perform a great service and deserve ALL your money, not just what they are taking now.

  66. #66 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Most people didn’t know what it meant then and most people don’t know what it means now.

    But it’s been common knowledge by just about everyone with a brain that cops have good retirements. That’s all I’ve heard for 30 years is they have “nice retirements”. What that meant most people don’t know now and didn’t know then.

    If you were to ask most 10 year or newer cops what their retirement is they don’t have a clue. Not even the age or the %%. Along the 15 year mark cops start to learn a little more about that.

  67. #67 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    That started at the state level and eventually made its way to being approved by just about every California City that is part of the PERS system.

  68. #68 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Frickin love this blog. Learn so muh from some of the posts here. I just wish there was more good debate.

  69. #69 by peaches on September 6, 2012

    Yes, Jones and Mayer is Fullerton’s primary law firm, from whose loins Richard Jones has sprung to act as City Attorney for several years…

    Richards Watson Gershon is also a public-agency focused firm; one of their upper tier staff/partners (Jim Markman) is City Attorney of record for Brea

    The Mayer of Jones and Mayer specializes in police-related law.

  70. #70 by peaches on September 6, 2012

    Porky, that’s because their wives/mothers/girlfriends/fiancees handle their benefits; most LEOs and FFs have little clue about any of their benefits…

  71. #71 by simmons on September 6, 2012

    Why do you thing the TSA, IRS, EPA, FCC are purchasing 100,000s of bullets ?

    Who do they plan to shot with those bullets, illegals ?

    LOL.

  72. #72 by truthseeker on September 6, 2012

    -hundreds of millions of 40 caliber hollow point ammo that the Geneva convention prohibits using overseas-

  73. #73 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Not true at all. When we are young we don’t focus on that stuff. It’s all about how much each check is and enjoying life. Just like the private sector. Same thing. Identical. Later in life about 10-15 years into our careers, both public and private, we start to learn more about our benefits, retirement and medical.

    Good try though. I like the GED job at cops and firemans. They may all be dumb as dirt in your eyes, which is good, but many have done very well for themselves in life.

    :-)

  74. #74 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    45 caliber does the job better. 40 too small.

    :-(

  75. #75 by Champion Master on September 6, 2012

    Labor Unions=Modern Mafia butt and cunt with Politics and Major Troll action on FFFF, via Porky Mally Bullshit Rodeo and Circus. HAIL MC SATAN AND BRUTALITY. Im not gonna relink Labor Unions and Police Brutality.

  76. #76 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “I certainly do appreciate some of your comical responses”…………. Hmmmmm

    It is call satiric expression “FL” and black humor which the Bohemians (Czechs) are famous for!

    Try to interpreted my “comical responses” as a satire — you may find them more expressionistic.

    In addition, try to understand the “black humor” rater than simple and usual Bob Hope one.

    Caveat: I consider profanity vulgarity as the ultimate satiric expression!

    However, thanks for liking my crapola!

    Maybe one day, when I’ll master my ESL I will too write long intellectual, progressive articles full of wisdom and modesty like Golem and Gröfaz do — to which I am aspiring!

  77. #77 by peaches on September 6, 2012

    Sweetie pie – I spoke from experience; it was always the woman/women in their lives (with a few exceptions) asking about benefits – and this was regardless of age :)

    You may be the exception and there were a few in my experience.

  78. #78 by Champion Master on September 6, 2012

    Great Cops = Low Crimes, but less Union Monies and less political control. Union Thugs are outdated and politcally nonviable.

  79. #79 by KL on September 6, 2012

    Richard Daley, perfection can’t come in one fell swoop. I’ve noticed that a few comments here are not too favorable of him. Of course, who cares? After all, it’s Wisconsin.

  80. #80 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Really? I don’t see that yet at all.

  81. #81 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Lol love it. :-)

  82. #82 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Yea I guess some are like that. I find more the other way. Type A no one in their business, know it all.

  83. #83 by Champion Master on September 6, 2012

    In my humble opinion, Violence and Crime are being Fostered by Lawyers and those under them.

    KABC7 breaking news, women tazered while handcuffed while on video. Terrorists always move to softer targets.

  84. #84 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    The classical case of contemporary powers of the unions can be expressed by their stooges like the L.A. Mayor Villaraigosa who openly, in front of the millions, demonstrated what Democratic vote means to the USA Democratic party.

    If that would be done by Putin you all would go bananas.

    But you will vote Democratic anyway because you all are hypnotized.

  85. #85 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    God no. Republican baby.

  86. #87 by Champion Master on September 6, 2012

    The death of an innocent foetus can occur as well as tasers and stun guns can cause a miscarriage when used on a pregnant woman. Police would find it difficult, if not impossible to know if a female suspect is pregnant

  87. #88 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “God no. Republican baby”……….. Hmmmmm

    I am atheist and no Republican you moron mongoloid!

    However, my higher moral principle do not allow me to vote for Democrats.

    You may click on my name and see what I think about democrats and what ultra left liberal Gröfaz dreams about them.

  88. #89 by PittBull on September 6, 2012

    The unions absolutely hate saving the taxpayers some money. They would rather push Costa Mesa over the fiscal cliff and force them into bankrupcy. The fact that Costa Mesa could save their taxpayers in excess of $3M over a 5 year contract by outsourcing jail work just turns the public union thieves livid. Watch the unions argue that the inmate’s safety would be at risk or some other contrived bogus excuse! As if they ever gave a damn about prisoners! :)

  89. #90 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    I should add that yesterday Democrats added God and Jews to their platform.

    So do not tell me next time that Jews do not own USA.

  90. #91 by Union Boy on September 6, 2012

    I may be the only union member to respond to this post, but I must.

    I worked in Fullerton for 11 years as a unionized public servant. When I began in 2000, I needed some place to hang my hat, as 2 previous jobs in the public sector had both led to layoffs after 5 years.

    My only regret was not joining sooner. The most important factor for me was job security, plain and simple. Who was worried about that back in 2000? Not nearly as many as there are today. I sacrificed a bit of money as well as prestige to accept this job.

    No mention of the 2 years spent as a temporary worker gaining the experience needed to do the job. No mention of no benefits (vacation, sick leave, etc.) during that time. You pay your dues (no pun intended), keep your mouth shut, keep your head down and just do the job, hoping and waiting for a better day and an opening to come available.

    When I am out in the elements, be it 100 degree heat or raining cats and dogs all day, people ask one question. “How can you do this job weather?” My response is, “There are many who would love to be in my shoes today, there is not much for me to complain about, regardless of what the weather is.”

    It is simply a matter of perspective and appreciation. I sacrificed a few things back then to strengthen my position and security as I got older. An honest wage for an honest day’s work is my mantra.

    I am not involved in law enforcement, if anyone is wondering.

  91. #92 by Union Boy on September 6, 2012

    Also, the peace of mind I have knowing my job is going to be here next week, next month and next year is something the vast majority of public sector jobs can not offer.

  92. #93 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “Also, the peace of mind I have knowing my job is going to be here next week, next month and next year”…….. Hmmmmmm

    Do you want to bet?

    Obviously you got layoffs after 5 years because you are stupid and do not know how to balance your check book or for that matter a city balance sheet.

  93. #94 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Not nice Stanley. He could be very smart. Most public sector jobs are very secure today because staffing levels average 20% cuts from 3 years ago. Most cuts are done via retirements now and no backfill.

  94. #95 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    Costa Mesa is much different than most cities too. They have no money issues. They just want to cut. Biggest tax base mall in the US. So their cuts are motive based and not due to no reserves left.

  95. #96 by Fullerton Lover on September 6, 2012

    That was some pretty good shit Stanley Fiala.

  96. #97 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “Most public sector jobs are very secure today because staffing levels average 20% cuts from 3 years ago.”……….. Hmmmmmm

    Sure!

    FYI, it is not job cost which creates structural deficit of the public sector!

    IT IS PENSION STUPID!

  97. #98 by peaches on September 6, 2012

    Stanley, would you please just pack your tent and leave the area? How dare you say this person is “stupid”! “Sir”, you are a jerk!

  98. #99 by Greg Diamond on September 6, 2012

    Joe Sip, thanks for taking off FFFF’s mask and getting down to brass tacks. Gotta go to a convention watch party; more later.

  99. #100 by cg on September 6, 2012

    I am starting to warm up to you, Stanley.

  100. #101 by Richard Daley on September 6, 2012

    There’s also a keen sense of the absurd which is hilarious and your sarcasm can hit like a broadsword sometimes.

  101. #102 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    LOL. You so mean. Are you bullying me?

    I happen to enjoy my pension. I also thank you.

    :-)

  102. #103 by Richard Daley on September 6, 2012

    I could see how someone like Phil Hendry could have a field day on this blog!

  103. #104 by PittBull on September 6, 2012

    Obviously you aren’t referring to the Costa Mesa in Orange County. The city is in a big fiscal crunch. About 65% of their expenses are public safety related – for labor costs. You need to read up on it. Perhaps you mean Newport Beach, their neighbor. Sure, they have money. The city is packed with rich people. Costa Mesa are middle class and poor.

  104. #105 by cg on September 6, 2012

    Stanley, you just went down the toilet. We here, are not your wipping boy. Go play somewhere else. Maybe ESL classes might help.

  105. #106 by Fullerton Lover on September 6, 2012

    Peaches,

    I’d suggest that you double click on Stanley Fiala’s name on one of his post to get the “full effect.”

    I think it’s safe to say that Stanley has no love for those who refer to themselves as belonging to the Democratic party.

  106. #107 by cg on September 6, 2012

    Well, that says it all, reguardess what party you belong too.
    “I VOTE THAT FFFF BANS STANLEY”

  107. #108 by Fullerton Lover on September 6, 2012

    To each their own.

  108. #109 by Tuco Ramirez on September 6, 2012

    Joe, I am voting for FDR in this election! He knew how to talk to the people and all he had was a radio!
    BTW, Bill Murray is playing FDR in a movie that is being shown at the Toronto Film Festival where it is looking for a distributor! Any takers?

  109. #110 by Yes man on September 6, 2012

    The best way to obtain wealth or provide for your family is to have your daddy give you his hard earned money. Right Tony?

  110. #111 by The Fullerton Shadow on September 6, 2012

    No mask, Dimebag. Keep peddling you bankrupting creed. Nobody is listening except the cops.

  111. #112 by Fred Alcazar on September 6, 2012

    Don’t let Flory near the bar.

  112. #113 by Fred Alcazar on September 6, 2012

    They have so far. No recession in government. Just ask Dime Store.

  113. #114 by Fred Alcazar on September 6, 2012

    100% bullshit. Your private sector counterpart has to work ’til he’s 65. Why is that, Union Boy?

    Go cry elsewhere.

    P.s. You don’t keep your head down and your mouth shut. You put the screws to you city council to give you automatic step increases, retirement at 55 and massive benefits. Boo hoo.

  114. #115 by Fred Alcazar on September 6, 2012

    You’re losing O’Malley!

  115. #116 by Joe Sipowicz on September 6, 2012

    That would be me.

  116. #117 by KL on September 6, 2012

    So Joe, what do you recommend for a first gun?

  117. #118 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “I happen to enjoy my pension”……… Hmmmmm

    Enjoy it while you have it!

    Soon it will transform into the food stamps and hot soup.

    Just hold on to the Obama’s vision — said blind!

  118. #119 by Steve Brow on September 6, 2012

    Richard Daley :I could see how someone like Phil Hendry could have a field day on this blog!

    Where do you think Phil getshis ideas? Remember Steve Bosley of Corona?

  119. #120 by Franklin on September 6, 2012

    the guys speaks his mind without attacks, and Fred goes off like a jealous bitch…

  120. #121 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “How dare you say this person is ‘stupid’! ‘Sir’, you are a jerk!”……….. Hmmmmm

    Firstly it was metaphor like “It is economy stupid” — maybe you are really stupid.

    As long as I pay for your pension I am your Boss so shut up Prunus!

    Soon I will stop my payments so start looking for a par time job.

  121. #122 by Franklin on September 6, 2012

    I second the motion

  122. #123 by Franklin on September 6, 2012

    didnt know stanley paid taxes… or just because he contributed he thinks he can call ALL the shots. I disagree with Stanley so that should negate his right to choose.

  123. #124 by Steve Brow on September 6, 2012

    Great analysis.

  124. #125 by Franklin on September 6, 2012

    I told you long ago, Diamond, that was their end game. get rid of unions, get rid of gov’t, then we will be the slaves to corporate power like they have been brainwashed into believing from listening to too much AM radio as kids… the Spawn children of Rush Limbaugh.

  125. #126 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “I VOTE THAT FFFF BANS STANLEY”……… Hmmmmm

    You sound like Villaraigosa looking for 2/3 of vote.

    Read your scripts!

  126. #127 by peaches on September 6, 2012

  127. #128 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “I disagree with Stanley so that should negate his right to choose”…………… Hmmmmmm

    The Bolsheviks always disagree with me!

    Frankly, I am endowed by unalienable rights by my creator not by Frankelein.

  128. #129 by Steve Brow on September 6, 2012

    simmons :I understand your position but I contend UNIONS have NEVER been good for this country and they never will be.
    I have always thought that the State of California would be OK as there are just too many entrepreneurs in California for it to do too badly.
    However, if any force can bring down the State of California, it is the Public Sector Unions such as the ones that have forced Fullerton to pay Police and public employees like Kings.
    Get rid of the public sector unions in California and the state will recover in record time.
    I do not like private sector unions either but at least there is a check to their power . . . competition.
    There is no effective competition in the public sector, especially when the public sector unions have the power to elect their puppets into power. The only check to public sector unions is to bankrupt the private sector that pays for the union demanded circuses.
    Think about, the Police, while they perform an important service, do not make a product and do absolutely NOTHING to increase the wealth of Fullerton. In fact, Police and other public employees are leeches on the private sector and when the leeches start sucking out more blood than the private sector can make the entire system dies.
    Thus, the private sector suckers should work hard like good slaves and send their money to the government leeches. Who cares if the sucker making minimum wage has to work two jobs until they are 70 while his/her kids skip college to get right to work to pay taxes so that the Fullerton Police can have their 6 figure salaries (retire a 50 with full pay and benefits) to run around being thugs abusing the public and killing the homeless.
    After all, they perform a great service and deserve ALL your money, not just what they are taking now.

    Simmons, I have to confront you on theory here. I agree that the public sector has become bloated beyond its essential purpose and that its employees have become overpaid and wildly over-pensioned. I agree that public employee unions are too powerful and perhaps should never have been allowed to exist.

    However, there are many functions of an economy that do not directly produce a good or service to the consumer that are nonetheless valuable to the economy. Measurement of that value can be difficult.

    At what point would the businessmen of Fullerton lose more money to crime than paying taxes for the police to catch thieves and hold them in jail or prison? At what point would the citizens of Fullerton lose more to the ravages of fire than to the ravages of firefighter pay? No one likes to pay bank fees, but at what point is reverting to the barter system more expensive and limiting than our current modern system of economic trade accounting.

    Even within a corporation, many consider the upper management as deadweight do not directly contribute to anything. And top heavy organizations can drag an organization down. But how can a major corporation exist without them?

    In summary, I want to drag thought back from libertarian excess to conservative cost/benefit analysis.

  129. #130 by Franklin on September 6, 2012

    were you in the black guard in Czech when they rushed out the Jews during the 30′s? I think i remember you…yes, you were the anti-semite gang of kids that threw rocks at my Bubba…
    Please dont bring your old world hate to my beloved country!

  130. #131 by For the record on September 6, 2012

    Not the first time we’ve brought this up.

    Tony– we don’t need to tolerate Nazis. I expect you don’t either. Ban Stanley.

  131. #132 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    As far as I know he never loses. Now me, I lose often.

    :-)

  132. #133 by Franklin on September 6, 2012

    BTW I was the one who convinced Thomas to add that… so you can thank me that you believe you have a gawd given write to blame everyone under the sun for your woes…. your pathetic life is all yours not ours.

  133. #134 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    No. I live in Newport. Costa Mesa is loaded. 65% might be public safety but their income is huge. Mayor just said that live the the other day. Money isn’t an issue.

  134. #135 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    That’s Fred. He does that with anyone with a differing opinion. Usually he spouts something about a GED in between the spit and bright red face.

    :-)

  135. #136 by Franklin on September 6, 2012

    and same goes for Mitt and GDub. Republicans like snot nose brats raised from industrialists. nostalgia for the Gilded Age

  136. #137 by KL on September 6, 2012

    Aw, c’mon! Stanley adds flavor!

  137. #138 by Franklin on September 6, 2012

    it was all the lead in the water he had as a child I assume

  138. #139 by Porky Pig on September 6, 2012

    And being loved in his basement the last few years yelling at the walls and his computer. His has a serious infatuation with GED too. Maybe that was his ex wife’s initials.

  139. #140 by Franklin on September 6, 2012

    he probably misses the free education in the old country.

  140. #141 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “BTW I was the one who convinced Thomas to add that”……….. Hmmmmmm

    Interesting!

    Unfortunately, I have no clue who Thomas is.

  141. #142 by Stanley Fiala on September 6, 2012

    “Gotta go to a convention watch party; more later”…….. Hmmmmm

    Take your time!

    The convention is presented by Pentecostalist and spoken in tongues.

  142. #143 by The Fullertonista on September 6, 2012

    Uh, I completely support private sector unions as long as membership is voluntary.. I blog here. I think Joe nicely explained the problems with public sector unions and he stressed these were PUBLIC. Libertarians are capable of nuanced positions on unions, see here: http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com/2012/06/3087/

    Libertarians (at least the smart ones) are not at all in favor of increasing corporate power. Government subsidies and liability limits protect corporate power. The idea that the government is some sort of bulwark against corporate power is demonstrably false. Thus the military-industrial complex, prison-industrial complex, drug war-pharmaceutical company nexus, etc. See here for example: http://c4ss.org/content/3202

    And Rush Limbaugh is a dumb, bloated oxy-loving POS.

  143. #144 by PittBull on September 6, 2012

    Money’s not an issue?

    Nonsense.

    Why should Costa Mesa waste money unnecessarily?

    Because they have enough to waste?

    Crazy rationale if I ever heard it.

    Please never run for council and get elected.

  144. #145 by truthseeker on September 6, 2012

    Do you know how to count to 16 trillion? Any idea what the US GDP is? You think next year will be the same as this year? What you fail to see is that the public sector unions are on the altar right now as to act as a red herring. The real threat to fiscal solvency are the black budgets and the debt based currency issuance. Most cannot get their arms around that so the media will continue to throw you under the bus until the balkaniztion results in villification when the dollar dies.They will blame the union boys and girls and we will all be in an electronic soup kitchen line. Well not all of us. There are those that see over the horizon and are not arrogant and myopic about present circumstance. Artificially sustained record low interest rates and we get anemic economic results at best. When the rates go higher which they HAVE TO AND WILL, the presses will run and inflate or the presses stop and we collapse. Both doors lead us off the cliff. Wake up and help turn this thing around. Momentum builds slowly but it is momentum and not velocity or mass that affects change. The ball is rolling down the hill so get out of the way.

  145. #146 by truthseeker on September 6, 2012

    Obviously there are plans afoot for many to be shot. Sadly, hollow points offer the best cost performance for this project’s undertaking. Are you in on it?

  146. #147 by Stanley Fiala on September 7, 2012

    “Czech when they rushed out the Jews during the 30′s?”……….. Hmmmmmm

    You must stop watching Hollywood Jewish propaganda and learn history.

    Czechs were sod to Hitler in 1938 by Brit named Chamberlain in Munich with a blessing of the moron mongoloid FDR Democrat who sold Czechs in 1945 again in Yalta to Stalin.

    There was no NAZI Party in the Bohemia during the German Protectorate.

    If you ask any history knowledgeable Jew he will tell you that Bohemia was last refuge for Jews during the WWII coming from Hungary, Poland and Russia.

    As I recall it was you Frankenstein dragging Japanese Americans into concentration camps and gas chambers.

    Obviously you and Golem need some serious mental help.

    The facts:

    Did Obama removed the word God from the Dem. Platform?….. yes or no!

    Did Obama recognized Jerusalem as a capitol of the Israel prior to Wednesday?……. yes or no?

    Did Obama Wednesday personally intervene and back paddle on God and Jerusalem?………. yes or no?

    Did majority democrats voted against Obama’s Sudden Jewish Syndrome?………. yes or no!

    Therefore, why don’t you call Democrats and Obama Nazi and instead accusing the messenger?……. Huh?

    Save your answers you social parasite who lives on pension stolen from children’s education.

  147. #148 by Stanley Fiala on September 7, 2012

    You will find answers here!

    Jerusalem And God Vote Gets Booed At Dem Convention

    Delegates and members of the Democratic party booed after former Gov. Ted Strickland (D-OH) discussed God and moved to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

    Convention chairman Antonio Villaraigosa, mayor of Los Angeles, had to ask for the Yea and Nay vote several times before declaring the motion passed.

    C-SPAN cameras captured the dissatisfaction among members after the motion passed.

    seehttp://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/09/05/jerusalem_and_god_get_booed_at_dem_convention.html

    So who is NAZI?…… The American Democrats and Obama or free spirit truth speaking Bohemian?

    Who is controlling the American Democratic party?

  148. #149 by Simmons on September 7, 2012

    truthseeker :
    Obviously there are plans afoot for many to be shot. Sadly, hollow points offer the best cost performance for this project’s undertaking. Are you in on it?

    Why is the Federal Government (and probably State Governments behind the scenes) purchasing so many bullets?

    Why is socialism and communism not condemned for the past atrocities committed under such systems? The lone exception is Nazis. In Europe hoisting a swastika-emblazoned Nazi flag is a crime and people have hunted down and sought punishment for Nazi murderers, who were responsible for the deaths of more than 20 million people.

    But what about socialism and communism in general? Is it because socialists, communists and their fellow travelers, such as the Wall Street occupiers supported by our president care about the little guy in his struggle for a fair shake ? LOL. Right.

    The unspeakable acts of Adolf Hitler’s Nazis pale in comparison to the horrors committed by the communists in the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the People’s Republic of China. Between 1917 and 1987, Vladimir Lenin, Josef Stalin and their successors murdered and were otherwise responsible for the deaths of 62 million of their own people. Between 1949 and 1987, China’s communists, led by Mao Zedong and his successors, murdered and were otherwise responsible for the deaths of 76 million Chinese.

    Yet, it’s acceptable both in Europe and in the U.S. to hoist and march under the former USSR’s red flag emblazoned with a hammer and sickle. Mao Zedong has long been admired by academics and leftists across our country, as they often marched around singing the praises of Mao and waving his little red book, “Quotations From Chairman Mao Tse-tung.” President Barack Obama’s communications director, Anita Dunn, in her June 2009 commencement address to St. Andrews Episcopal High School at Washington National Cathedral, said Mao was one of her heroes.

    Believe me, the Union communists and current government have learned from history. It takes lots of bullets to kill 1/3 of your population like Obama’s hero Mao did.

    Perhaps such explains why our Federal Government agencies (TSA, FCC, EPA, The National weather service, etc.)

    Why would the National Weather Service (46,000 rounds) and the Social Security Administration (174,000 rounds) need to purchase these large quantities of powerful ammo?

    Well, if your goal is Tyranny over Americas, you need to take their private guns. Thus, obtaining several million rounds of hollow point bullets is a good first step.

  149. #150 by van get it da artiste on September 7, 2012

    thank you

  150. #151 by Greg Diamond on September 7, 2012

    Of course there’s a mask. THIS STORY is what FFFF is really about. Attacking police brutality is mostly just a weapon to enlist good people into this sort of anti-union drive. We’ve seen a lot of “bait”; I’m happy to concentrate on your “switch.”

  151. #152 by Greg Diamond on September 7, 2012

    Was Norby at a watch party? What did you have to not let him near, aside from the bar?

  152. #153 by Greg Diamond on September 7, 2012

    Working through the paragraphs backwards:

    (3) Agreed.

    (2) Agreed with the beginning. Government can be a bulwark against corporate power, or it can be the opposite — it’s a tool and it can be used towards various ends. This is the heart of where liberals and libertarians can agree on economic policy (we already agree on most civil libertarian issues.)

    Where I disagree is that you have to compare government to its alternatives. Government can make things better or make things worse in this respect, but the absence of government generally makes things bad, because formal government is not the only way of exerting power and control.

    A “voluntary union” is not a union. We would not have weekends, minimum wage, etc. if we had had only voluntary unions, because we would not have had the ability to deny industry its means of production if they didn’t offer concessions. We can disagree about the legitimacy of some of the concessions made (and in some cases I may even agree with you), but we should agree that solidarity among workers is the only way to GET those concessions.

  153. #154 by Greg Diamond on September 7, 2012

    Private employment has gone up substantially since the stimulus kicked in. Public employment has gone down, especially as aid to states has been slashed. Do you even understand what a recession is?

    By the way: is there waste in government? I’m sure that there is. I’ll always listen to Republicans who think that they’ve identified some. Occasionally, you’ll be right.

  154. #155 by simmons on September 7, 2012

    Unions clearly represent the best interest (short term best interests) of their union members at the expense of other people.

    For example, non-union workers making minimum wages probably need a car to get to work and they have to purchase a car whose price is inflated by the cost of paying the high wages of union workers. Do you really think the car manufacturers are paying their worker’s salary? If so, how and where do they get the money? The answer is that manufacturers get the money from the people who purchase their products; people who may be worse off than the union workers demanding ever more of everything.

    Now I am all for people having the freedom to band together and use their collective power to obtain a better life. I value the freedom of association and non-association. Thus, such “unions” should be voluntary and there should never be a requirement for one to belong to a union to apply for and be seriously considered for any employment. Such keeps competition in the system which is a necessary check to “union” power.

    The only controversy regarding unions to me is what they should be allowed and not allowed to do. What I object to is the special privileges given to unions by the government that are not available to other groups.

    When unions get higher wages for their members by RESTRICTING entry into an occupation, such higher wages are at the expense of other workers who find their employment opportunities reduced.

    Even worse, for public employees, when the government pays government workers, such wages come from the tax payer, the person giving in to the unions is not paying the wages, and there is no competition to put a check on such labor costs. The real problem arises after an official wins office and sits down to bargain over the pay and working conditions with unions who voted the public official in office. Given the relationship between politicians and public employee unions, we should not be surprised that public employee wages and benefits often average 45 percent higher than their counterparts in the private sector. Often they receive pension and health care benefits making little or no contribution. All the politician must do is take, by force, more money from the taxpayer. Don’t pay your taxes and see if a guy does not eventually show up at your door with a gun.

    There is only one way for unions to protect the high wages and low productivity of their members; by making the replacement of such workers impossible or too expensive.

    But when workers get higher wages through competition and companies competing with one another for the best workers, by workers competing with one another for the best jobs, such higher wages are at no one’s expense. Such higher wages can only come from higher productivity and capital investments which creates a better world for all involved.

    California’s unionized state and local police, fire and prison employees have what’s called a “3 percent at 50″ formula that determines their retirement check. It’s based on 3 percent of the average of the three highest-paid years of the employee’s career, multiplied by the number of years on the job. An employee with 20 years’ service can retire at age 50 and receive 60 percent of his salary. In Fullerton it is 90% as Police often boost their retirement income by putting in a lot of overtime hours during their last three years of service.

    Basically, what California (and many ohter states) has done is given public sector unions the power to tax the people. How sad.

  155. #156 by simmons on September 7, 2012

    Unions clearly represent the best interest (short term best interests) of their union members at the expense of other people.

    For example, non-union workers making minimum wages probably need a car to get to work and they have to purchase a car whose price is inflated by the cost of paying the high wages of union workers. Do you really think the car manufacturers are paying their worker’s salary? If so, how and where do they get the money? The answer is that manufacturers get the money from the people who purchase their products; people who may be worse off than the union workers demanding ever more of everything.

    Now I am all for people having the freedom to band together and use their collective power to obtain a better life. I value the freedom of association and non-association. Thus, such “unions” should be voluntary and there should never be a requirement for one to belong to a union to apply for and be seriously considered for any employment. Such keeps competition in the system which is a necessary check to “union” power.

    The only controversy regarding unions to me is what they should be allowed and not allowed to do. What I object to is the special privileges given to unions by the government that are not available to other groups.

    When unions get higher wages for their members by RESTRICTING entry into an occupation, such higher wages are at the expense of other workers who find their employment opportunities reduced.

    Even worse, for public employees, when the government pays government workers, such wages come from the tax payer, the person giving in to the unions is not paying the wages, and there is no competition to put a check on such labor costs. The real problem arises after an official wins office and sits down to bargain over the pay and working conditions with unions who voted the public official in office. Given the relationship between politicians and public employee unions, we should not be surprised that public employee wages and benefits often average 45 percent higher than their counterparts in the private sector. Often they receive pension and health care benefits making little or no contribution. All the politician must do is take, by force, more money from the taxpayer. Don’t pay your taxes and see if a guy does not eventually show up at your door with a gun.

    There is only one way for unions to protect the high wages and low productivity of their members; by making the replacement of such workers impossible or too expensive.

    But when workers get higher wages through competition and companies competing with one another for the best workers, by workers competing with one another for the best jobs, such higher wages are at no one’s expense. Such higher wages can only come from higher productivity and capital investments which creates a better world for all involved.

    California’s unionized state and local police, fire and prison employees have what’s called a “3 percent at 50″ formula that determines their retirement check. It’s based on 3 percent of the average of the three highest-paid years of the employee’s career, multiplied by the number of years on the job. An employee with 20 years’ service can retire at age 50 and receive 60 percent of his salary. In Fullerton it is 90% as Police often boost their retirement income by putting in a lot of overtime hours during their last three years of service.

    Basically, what California has done is given public sector unions the power to tax the people. How sad.

  156. #157 by Greg Diamond on September 7, 2012

    How do you even get a gun store drunk?

  157. #158 by Hollis Dugan on September 7, 2012

    For what it’s worth Mitt Romney inherited his fathers fortune and gave it all away to charity. Think what you will about the rest of him but his money was made by him at a company he founded. It used to be called the american dream but to some that is a bad thing.

  158. #159 by Hollis Dugan on September 7, 2012

    Sorry, you are just wrong. The only “substantial” change in employment has come from the number of people no longer even trying to find a job which eliminates them from the “unemployed” category. Our jobs numbers are a disaster and if they weren’t this election wouldn’t be close.

  159. #160 by Porky Pig on September 7, 2012

    Good morning. Beautiful day. :-)

    Los Angeles County sheriff’s officials hired several problem cops from the disbanded Maywood police force last year, according to a report released Thursday by the Office of Independent Review.

    One of the officers drunkenly fired his gun while driving and another was let go from another police agency for dishonesty.

    The troubled Maywood police force was disbanded and replaced by the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department in 2010, as the city faced financial trouble and laid off nearly all of its employees.

    The Sheriff’s Department has been criticized before for less than thorough hirings, a practice some critics say has contributed to recent problems in the jails with deputies allegedly abusing inmates and smuggling contraband into the lockups.

    A Times investigation in 2007 found that the Maywood Police Department had become a haven for misfit cops who had been pushed out of other law enforcement agencies for crimes or serious misconduct. At least one-third of the then-37 member force had left other police jobs under a cloud or had brushes with the law while working for Maywood.

    When the Sheriff’s Department was commissioned to take over, officials agreed to consider hiring some of the disbanded force’s cops. Many were rejected.

    But according to the report, four “questionable” applicants made it through.

    Sheriff’s spokesman Steve Whitmore pointed out that the decision to hire the Maywood cops was made by the previous undersheriff, and that as deputies, “they’ve all done pretty well.”

    He said that such reports from the department’s watchdog are what Sheriff Lee Baca had hoped for when he proposed creating the oversight agency.

    “That’s exactly what the sheriff wants the OIR to do, to bring up these issues and bring them to the light of day,” Whitmore said.

  160. #161 by Fullerton Lover on September 7, 2012

    I still have a beef with the Mormon religions exemption from military service, so that their young men can go on missions to recruit new converts. ..especially in the South of France!

    How many converts do you think a tea totaling religion is going to find in a country known for it’s wine making and Catholicism?

    In 1966, when most of the young men across the U.S.A. were leaving high school, and being immediately drafted or conscripted for military service and ended up fighting for freedom and democracy in South Vietnam and South Korea…

    Mitt was in the South of France.

    How is that fair?

  161. #162 by Fullerton Lover on September 7, 2012

    Hollis is right on. I can only add that the jobs that have been created are low paying service sector jobs as well…

    http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/09/07/us-jobs-growth-slow-in-august/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D202457

  162. #163 by Steve Brow on September 7, 2012

    Let’s face it Simmons, government really sucks in providing consumer goods and services. There are some common services that it can provide, such as common roads and the monetary medium of exchange.

    But what government is really good at is deprivation of life, liberty, and property, which is why we do not allow it WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW. Of course, war and national emergencies expidite that due process, do they not?

  163. #164 by to hear one who comforts on September 7, 2012

    Screw capitalism — I want feudalism back, now!

  164. #165 by Yes man on September 7, 2012

    Non-conforming posts are deleted quickly here. You had better agree with Tony and Travis or don’t bother posting.

  165. #166 by KL on September 7, 2012

    I’ve never heard that before about the LDS religion. Will have to ask my LDS friends to see if that is true.

  166. #167 by truthseeker on September 7, 2012

    The Department of Homeland Security has purchased OVER 1.4 BILLION rounds over the last 5 years and have now begun to classify their orders. In the whore media you will hear about 150 thousand here or there to take our eyes off of the ball.

  167. #168 by JOHN DOE on September 7, 2012

    Huray for the street sweepers!!

  168. #169 by JOHN DOE on September 7, 2012

    Little People only see the little things. What they want to see.

  169. #170 by Fullerton Lover on September 7, 2012

    During the time of the military draft in the United States, pre 1975, Mormons were exempt from the military while they were serving as missionaries.

    I would think that this exemption would not still apply, as all current military commitments are voluntary.

  170. #171 by JOHN DOE on September 7, 2012

    Anaheim brass has balls, not like Fullerton. Bunch of scared sissys. Scared of a bunch of radicals and bums hanging around city hall every other Tuesday.

  171. #173 by Fullerton Lover on September 7, 2012

    I think what your missing, my knuckle dragging friend, is that this country was found on the right to choose freely, and not be bullied into submission by spoiled children.

    All that people like the street sweeper do with their contempt of anyone who challenges them, is to cause me to dip my heels in even deeper to “curb” their insolence.

  172. #174 by Fullerton Lover on September 7, 2012

    I honestly don’t think that any of the City Councilman are afraid of the F.P.O.A. members like Barry Coffman that have been hanging around the city hall lately?

  173. #175 by truthseeker on September 7, 2012

    Greg it is truth garnished with emotion and wrapped in fact. It is the polar opposite of the coverage of slick willy and barry last night as they fed the lemmings more grease to line their throats so the reality of where the US is headed will go down easy.

  174. #176 by William Wallace on September 7, 2012

    Excellent Titanic analogy TS- I just watched my neighbor’s house short-sold-Their response was to buy a brand new Tundra for the teenage son, a brand new Accord for the teenage daughter, declare bankruptcy and exit stage left in the wee hours of the morning. Even sub freezing water won’t wake some people up.

  175. #177 by Anonymous on September 7, 2012

    Great post Joe.

    CTA is thee most corrupt and the strongest union in CA, even more so than the LE or prison workers. The main difference is they don’t have guns to abuse, they just have the daily opportunity to screw up, rape and berate the young formidable minds of our children and yet they stay protected, overpaid and exempt from termination under any circumstance.

  176. #178 by JOHN DOE on September 7, 2012

    I am not talking about FPOA, I am talking about Kelly’s Army and Ron Thomas.

  177. #179 by truthseeker on September 7, 2012

    Don’t get me wrong there are some excellent teachers in our town’s schools. However in Fullerton they collectively hold the kids hostage as they cram upwards of 40 kids in a 50 year old room under mercury filled fluorescents at the wrong Kelvin spectrum, opt for less work days instead of a pay cut, cut recesses, make full use of leave time, pimp to the booze peddlers for fundraising, leave the trans fats and the high fructose corn syrup in the lunches and teach to the test so they look like a success. Corrupt and self serving is an understatement. It is complete bullshit but hey they get the summers off so they can booze it up and go eat bacon at home or in Europe. St Jude looks like the real winner in our town with all the future client base in product development right now under the asbestos tiles and the mercury vapor lamps as their livers process the fructose instead of their pancreas.

  178. #180 by Greg Diamond on September 7, 2012

    You ad lib almost as well as Clint Eastwood.

  179. #181 by Mechanic on September 7, 2012

    Rich college kids were exempt too…. dont forget the people who popped out kids and got married young… exempt too. There were lots of exemptions.. to fat, to short, no depth perception etc etc etc …. fixate on one thing and you loose site of the whole picture. If being fat is and exemption why not religion? Didnt democrats start that war?

  180. #182 by to hear one who comforts on September 7, 2012

    thanks!

  181. #183 by Fullerton Lover on September 7, 2012

    I was yanking your chain JD… it’s the weekend!

    p.s. How many of those “bums and radicals” did the F.P.O.A. actually create themselves by failing to properly address problem officers in the past, like Rincon and Wren, who were accused of sexually assaulting over 20 different women… while they were on duty and in uniform?

    p.s.s. We all usually create our own freight in life, and sometimes even our own fate.

  182. #184 by Mechanic on September 7, 2012

    That just proves that no matter what cops will cover for dirty cops. You prove our ‘anti-cop” stand is valid….. Thanks :)

  183. #185 by to hear one who comforts on September 7, 2012

    Could you at least argue your position with a few facts, or at least throw some numbers around?

  184. #186 by Cold Chillin' CopsBalls 3 on September 7, 2012

    Sorry for the off topic thread hijack but I wanted to have Porky see something.

    Porky, ya think this guy reminds you of anyone here in a few years time? Check out some of his other videos as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um4CAKIYyII

  185. #187 by Boycott the sLIEDbar on September 7, 2012

    Saturday
    1:30pm until 9:00pm in PDT

    The sLIEDbar is starting to forget that we remember. They need a wake up reminder. We need to keep them aware of their role in Kelly’s death. Their customers need to know they operate their business with blood on their hands. And we are not going away. They will go before we do. Meet at Kelly’s Corner and march across the parking lot.

    http://www.facebook.com/events/341277525964028/

  186. #188 by Fullerton Lover on September 7, 2012

    I guess that one of my points about what’s wrong with Mormons being able to exempt themselves from military service is why should just one branch of religion be given this exclusion?

    My second point would obviously be that if you allow one persons religious affiliation to affect their ability to be drafted into a war, wouldn’t that in effect, allowing the numbers of the other religious affiliations, such as Catholics and Baptists, to be decimated with the casualties of war?

    Kind of goes against the grain of everything that our country stands for don’t you think?

  187. #189 by truthseeker on September 7, 2012

    draft exemptions during the PWWII period: (1948 thru 1976*)

    1-A Available for military service
    1-AM Medical specialist available for military service
    1-A-O Conscientious objector available for noncombatant
    military service
    1-A-OM Medical specialist conscientious objector available
    for noncombatant military service
    1-C Member of the Armed Forces of the United States, the
    Coast and Geodetic Survey, or the Public Health Service
    (Enl)-enlisted; (Ind)-Inducted; (Dis)-discharged
    1-D Member of a Reserve component or student taking military
    training
    **1-H Registrant not currently subject to processing for
    induction or alternate service
    1-O Conscientious objector available for civilian work
    contributing to the national health, safety, or interest
    1-OM Medical specialist conscientious objector available for
    civilian work contributing to the national health,
    safety, or interest
    1-S Student deferred by statute: (H)-high school; (C)-college
    1-W Conscientious objector performing civilian work in the
    national health, safety, or interest (Rel)-released
    ***1-Y Registrant qualified for service only in time of war
    or national emergency
    2-A Registrant deferred because of civilian occupation
    (except agriculture)
    2-AM Medical specialist deferred because of critical
    community need involving patient care
    2-C Registrant deferred because of agricultural occupation
    2-D Registrant deferred because of study in preparation
    for the ministry
    2-M Registrant deferred for medical study
    2-S Registrant deferred because of activity in study
    3-A Registrant with a child or children; or registrant
    deferred by reason of extreme hardship to dependents
    4-A Registrant who has completed service; or sole surviving son
    4-B Official deferred by law
    4-C Alien
    4-D Minister of religion or divinity student
    4-E Conscientious objector opposed to both combatant and
    noncombatant training and service
    4-F Registrant not qualified for military service
    4-FM Medical specialist not qualified for military service
    4-G Sole surviving son
    4-W Conscientious objector who has completed civilian
    alternate service
    5-A Registrant over the age of liability for military service

    * Roman numerals I, II, III, IV, V were sometimes used.
    ** With the cessation of registrant processing in 1976, all registrants (except for a few alleged violators of the Military Selective Service Act) were classified 1-H regardless of any previous classification.
    *** The 1-Y classification was abolished December 10, 1971. Local boards were subsequently instructed to reclassify all 1-Y registrants by administrative action.

    December of 1969 a lottery system replaced the system of draft deferments
    Source(s):
    http://www.thememoryhole.org/nara/nprc/m…

    If you were careful you could have driven a truck through these loopholes.

  188. #190 by Fullerton Lover on September 7, 2012

    After reviewing your extensive list of exemptions, I’m still not clear why it was only the Mormons who were the only religious affiliation that had the ability to exempt all of their male members by doing missionary work to further their church membership?

  189. #191 by truthseeker on September 7, 2012

    Fullerton Lover :
    After reviewing your extensive list of exemptions, I’m still not clear why it was only the Mormons who were the only religious affiliation that had the ability to exempt all of their male members by doing missionary work to further their church membership?

    It is a carefully well run business with some serious connections and even more so now. One of my favorite quotes from a well respected dedicated American is “nothing happens unless the priesthood allows it” so true

  190. #192 by Stanley Fiala on September 7, 2012

    “I guess that one of my points about what’s wrong with Mormons being able to exempt themselves from military service is why should just one branch of religion be given this exclusion?”………… Hmmmmmm

    You wouldn’t say same about Jews who are exempt from service in USA if they elect to serve in Israel and are even allowed to shoot on Americans like USS Liberty and other incidents without being prosecuted for it like the American Taliban was.

    I do not recall that Mormons ever attacked America nor they demanded that bigamy should be added to Republican platform as have Jews demanded that Democrats add Jerusalem!

  191. #193 by Dimebag Strijkes on September 7, 2012

    Why don’t you start defending public employee unions?

  192. #194 by The Fullerton Harpoon on September 7, 2012

    Read the post asswipe. It’s about public employee unions and the stranglehold they have on our government.

    Even FDR could see the problems with the monster.

  193. #195 by The Fullerton Harpoon on September 7, 2012

    Maybe the buffet line, but you’d know all about that, right?

  194. #196 by Skeptic on September 7, 2012

    Where did you learn that? Please share some info.

  195. #197 by Skeptic on September 7, 2012

    “It takes lots of bullets to kill 1/3 of your population like Obama’s hero Mao did.”

    Mao didn’t shoot them. He starved them to death. Cheaper.

  196. #198 by Tuco Ramirez on September 7, 2012

    Well I am just back from Japan where they honor teachers and pay them very highly. My grandson (one of quite a few) is in 6th grade and his school day is an hour longer than in the USA. He also goes to school for a month longer per year. When he is through with school he goes to a private English school to learn English. 3 times a week for an hour and a half. He has plenty of homework, too.
    When you decide to make teaching a decent paying profession in California, then teachers may be willing for a longer school day. When you limit the number of students to 20 – 25 as in Japan, then you may receive higher test scores.
    Truthseeker, I do not believe that teachers spend their summers boozing it up. But keep looking for the truth.

  197. #199 by a non on September 7, 2012

    Steve Bosell

  198. #200 by Tuco Ramirez on September 7, 2012

    Phil Ochs said it best in the 1960′s:
    DRAFT DODGER RAG

    Oh I’m just a typical American boy from a typical American town
    I believe in God and Senator Dodd and keepin old Castro down.
    And when it came my time to serve I knew “Better dead than Red”
    So when I got to my old draft board, buddy, this is what I said:

    Sarge, I’m only eighteen, I got a ruptured spleen
    And I always carry a purse
    I got eyes like a bat, and my feet are flat, and my asthma’s
    gettin’ worse.
    Yes, think of my career, my sweetheart dear, and my poor old invalid aunt
    Besides, I aint no fool, I’m a-goin’ to school
    And I’m working in a DEE-fense plant.

    I’ve got a dislocated disc and a wracked up back
    I’m allergic to flowers and bugs
    And when the bombshell hits, I get epileptic fits
    And I’m addicted to a thousand drugs.
    I got the weakness woes, I can’t touch my toes
    I can hardly reach my knees
    And if the enemy came close to me
    I’d probably start to sneeze!

    Ooh, I hate Chou En Lai, and I hope he dies,
    One thing you gotta see
    That someone’s gotta go over there
    And that someone isn’t me.

    So I wish you well Sarge, give ‘em hell!
    Kill me a thousand or so
    And if you ever get a war without blood and gore
    I’ll be the first to go.

    Folks, Phil Ochs committed suicide after Nixon ended the war. He said he wasn’t needed anymore! His biggest hit was probably “Tape From California”!

  199. #201 by Fullerton Lover on September 7, 2012

    This was an attack by the Israeli Air Force on a clearly marked U.S. navy ship off the shore of Israel during the 1967 war.

    Given that the country of Israel is by far the largest benefactor of U.S. military aid, the bullets that killed U.S. personnel, were more than likely shot with U.S. made armaments.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

  200. #202 by Mechanic on September 7, 2012

    You obviously do not know the Harley riding teachers I know. California teachers are pretty much the highest paid in the nation…… If it is any consolation teachers should be paid more than cops.

  201. #203 by Porky Pig on September 7, 2012

    The things cops have to deal with. Liquid courage is he best LOL :-)

    http://www.policeone.com/bizarre/articles/5957684-Ohio-student-threatens-cop-with-penis-slap/

  202. #204 by Porky Pig on September 7, 2012

    They are busier now than ever before. Publicity does wonders.

  203. #205 by Fred Alcazar on September 7, 2012

    I won’t argue with that. But remember teachers have a nine-month gig with all sorts of non-teaching days thrown in fot the hell of it.

  204. #206 by Simmons on September 7, 2012

    Perhaps, but the jack booted thugs in our police departments across this country now see the citizen as “enemies” and seem to enjoy killing those citizens that dare to question or threaten their power/authority in any way.

    Look at Fullerton and Kelly Thomas. I have a good imagination but I find it difficult to image the kind of people that would gang up on a homeless man and beat and torture him to death over 45 minutes. It takes a special kind of evil to beat a man to death not to mention 6 men ganging up on an unarmed man and beating/torturing him to death. Such people have no honor, lack compunction, and would clearly have no problem shooting their “enemies” (instead of starving them to death). And it is not just the Fullerton Police that employ such cops. Read the news, such cops are becoming more and more common across the country.

    But I suspect, unlike Mao, today’s political powers have to deal with the Internet and a very fast news cycle. Thus, starving 1/3 of the population over time will simply take too long. Additionally, such causes too much “friendly fire” as some people the government do not wish to starve will starve. So the government Nazis, like the TSA and other government goons, need a way figure out which Americans hold the ideas they wish to eliminate, then they need only kill those Americans but they need to do it quick. And bullets are quick.

    One group of people the TSA and government goons really dislike and would like to eliminate are those people who support gun ownership. Indeed, gun owners tend to be for less government power and more individual freedom, and individual responsibility . . . ideals that are clearly a threat to the new world tyranny/vision of the TSA goons (and other government agencies).

    Gun owners like to quote the following pledge: “The government can have my guns when they peel them from my cold dead fingers.” The TSA and other government goons, like the FPD, plan to hold gun owners to such pledge.

    So they have purchased billions of bullets, not to defend the US from non-US citizens, but to protect government power from those who would limit same. Restated, they plan to shot us, as many as necessary, until we get our “mind right.”

    I know, such thoughts are a little on the crazy side.

    But think about it . . . I would not have believed 6 cops would beat and torture a homeless man to death (and be defended by their follow police, police union, superiors, and government officials), until I saw it on video. I am sure the TSA are very proud of the Fullerton Police Department.

  205. #207 by Annonymous (NON TROLL) on September 7, 2012

    “America’s public education system is failing. We’re spending more money on education but not getting better results for our children.

    That’s because the machine that runs the K-12 education system isn’t designed to produce better schools. It’s designed to produce more money for unions and more donations for politicians. -reason.com

    For decades, teachers’ unions have been among our nation’s largest political donors. As Reason Foundation’s Lisa Snell has noted…”

    The Machine: The Truth Behind Teachers Unions
    September 5, 2012

    http://reason.com/reasontv/2012/09/05/the-machine-the-truth-behind-teachers-un

  206. #208 by Temple Beth Tikvah on September 7, 2012

    I see a lot of antisemitism being published on this blog. Is it true this blog’s webmaster is Travis Kiger a Fullerton City Councilman?
    Shame on you.

  207. #209 by Annonymous (NON TROLL) on September 7, 2012

    “Lavrentiy Beria, head of Joseph Stalin’s secret police in the old Soviet Union, supposedly said, “Show me the man, and I’ll show you the crime.” Stalin executed anyone he considered a threat, and it didn’t take much to be considered a threat. Beria could always find some law the targeted person had broken. That’s easy to do when there are tons of vague laws on the books. Stalin “legally” executed nearly a million people that way.”

    America, the Law-crazed
    America’s zeal for legislating has turned us all into criminals of one type or another.
    John Stossel | July 25, 2012

    http://reason.com/archives/2012/07/25/america-the-law-crazed

  208. #210 by Steve Brow on September 7, 2012

    Simmons, you are blending two totally different situations. The beating of Kelly Thomas denoted the attitude of a civilian police force in peacetime to a non-compliant individual. They failed to use common sense in realizing that under his mental illness he did not rise to the level of a public threat.

    The other issue is FEMA planning for any plausible catastrophe. There was a time in the 1960′s when under threat of a nuclear attack, the government could rely on us to duck and cover, without having the slightest idea of how futile that would be with a 2000 degree fireball with a concussion of 100 PSI consuming us.

    Now, the government knows that a less cohesive society has been allowed to be built. In an emergency, from a dirty nuke to a bio-chemical attack to a major earthquake to a major cyber attack, the federal government has no confidence that we will work together.

    Keep in mind that just in time warehousing has left the people within days of starvation. Then consider that imbeded in us are Al-Quaida cells, the Mexican mafia, La Raza types, class warfare, the intelligence groups of many nations less than friends, and our own disparate domestic political interests that would all take the opportunity to take advantage of a catastrophe.

    With the ability and mandate of FEMA to mobilize all of the resources of federal, state, and local government, one would hope that the situation would be handled with much more wisdom and restraint than the Kelly Thomas incident.

    “You are doing a hell of a job, Brownie!”

  209. #211 by nipsey on September 7, 2012

    John Stossel is a useless hack even among his lunatic anti-government peers who are generally useless hacks in their own right.

    If you can wade through 600 pages of Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago you will see that nobody needed any ‘laws’ on the books to send someone away to their death.

  210. #212 by truthseeker on September 7, 2012

    nice link-it is not about the kids by a long shot-it is about keeping the gravy train on the tracks for the low level minions and about social engineering at the top

  211. #213 by Stanley Fiala on September 7, 2012

    “I see a lot of antisemitism being published on this blog.”…………. Hmmmmm

    Like what?

  212. #214 by Annonymous (NON TROLL) on September 7, 2012

    #213 by nipsey on September 7, 2012
    “lunatic anti-government peers who are”

    This is a Libertarian Blog why you TROLLING.

    A lot of people would be Libertarian if they knew what it meant.

  213. #215 by Stanley Fiala on September 7, 2012

    The following was emailed by me via the website internal e-mail at http://www.templebethtikvah.com/Home/contact-tbt/

    Who do you want to contact?…… Rabbi
    Name: Stanley Fiala
    Email address: edicorp@dslextreme.com
    What are you interested in?….. Harassment

    Dear Rabbi,

    Using the name Temple Beth Tikvah ["TBT"] an anonymous commenter posted the following comment; http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2012/going-into-labor/#comment-129559; at Friends for Fullerton’s Future ["FFFF"] blog.

    “I see a lot of antisemitism being published on this blog. Is it true this blog’s webmaster is Travis Kiger a Fullerton City Councilman? Shame on you”

    Since the commenter is referring to my comments at FFFF, and based thereon is intimidating and harassing a Fullerton City Councilman I demand an answer from TBT

    1) Is the above comment official statement by TBT?

    2) Do you believe that the statement is true?

    3) If so, please identify all antisemitic statements made by me in the FFFF.

    4) Please submit a legal authority in support of your believes and all legal elements to show any antisemitism or hate against Jews.

    5) Is TBT a supporter of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

    Respectfully submitted,

    -Stanley Fiala

  214. #216 by Annonymous (NON TROLL) on September 8, 2012

    The United Nations has not been able to define “Terrorism” !!!

    U.N. Me, Film

    “The world today is as dangerous as it has ever been, and the need for international confederations is greater than ever. Yet the United Nations has abdicated its responsibility to foster peace and freedom, instead allowing dictators, thugs, and tyrants to tie its hands and dominate its agenda. This is the subject of U.N. Me, a shocking new feature-length documentary from MPI filmmaker Ami Horowitz. Working with a world-class production team, Horowitz uncovers how an organization created to ennoble mankind has been so ravaged by corruption that it actually enables evil and creates global chaos.”

    http://www.thempi.org/mpi_films/unme.html

  215. #217 by Annonymous (NON TROLL) on September 8, 2012

    U.S. Administration, United Nations (United Dictators), and World Governance (World Dictatorship), Public Labor Unions, are just one Bag of Hell with the same goals.

  216. #218 by Greg Diamond on September 8, 2012

    That’s true for the August numbers. And it’s also true that “private employment has gone up substantially since the stimulus kicked in. Public employment has gone down, especially as aid to states has been slashed,” as I said.

    You’re right about the rise in discouraged workers (measured as part of U6). Independent of that, the number of private sector jobs — not a proportion, but a raw number — has increased by 4.6+ million. Both are true, so I was not wrong.

  217. #219 by Greg Diamond on September 8, 2012

    A lot has changed in 75-80 years — including demonstration of the importance of and ability of society to accommodate public employee unions. If FDR were alive today, he would not be behind Scott Walker and the Koch’s approach to government, especially if you let him read up on what has happened since 1945.

  218. #220 by Greg Diamond on September 8, 2012

    I was thinking something more like the wimmenfolk.

    Ha — good, original fat humor there, ‘poon.

  219. #221 by Greg Diamond on September 8, 2012

    Because I had already started. After that, all I could do was to continue.

  220. #222 by Tuco Ramirez on September 8, 2012

    UN = United Nothing

  221. #223 by Fred Alcazar on September 8, 2012

    Comments are not published. They are posted. FFFF didn’t have any semitic comments before Diamond showed up and brought his own troll with him.

  222. #224 by Fred Alcazar on September 8, 2012

    Dumpster diving again, Dimebag?

  223. #225 by Fred Alcazar on September 8, 2012

    Wrong. The “accommadtion” has meant extortion through the political process.

    Your argument is circular, of course. If it weren’t for the obvious excesses of public unions there would be no Walker.

    The only thing that has changed since 1945 is the success of these unions beyond their wildest imaginations – to the detriment of the taxpayers.

  224. #226 by simmons on September 8, 2012

    “However, there are many functions of an economy that do not directly produce a good or service to the consumer that are nonetheless valuable to the economy. Measurement of that value can be difficult.”

    We agree here . . . but I stated the following:

    “Think about the Police; while they perform an important service, do not make a product and do absolutely NOTHING to increase the wealth of Fullerton.”

    What I said was the Police do not make a product and they do nothing to “INCREASE” the wealth of the public they are suppose to serve. They may perserve wealth and they may help provide a better enviorment for wealth creation and accumulation, but they do no work that creates the items people need to live. Restated, the product of a Policeman’s work will not feed or cloth a single person. While the services Policeman perform are necessary, they are non-producers.

    Thus, I contend, the Police should NOT be paid more than ANY worker that helps create the things people, including Policemen, need to live. Policemen certainly should not be paid like Kings . . . Their skill set is not that special.

    Anyone can be a good Policeman . . . such takes no special training just common sense and honor. Special training may be useful but not required.

    An honorable man does not need to be taught to not beat the homeless to death. No amount of training can teach such things. If a person has to be trained not to beat a man to death, especially 6 armed men beating one unarmed man to death, then such people are too ignorant and lack the common sense needed to be a policeman.

    You state: “In summary, I want to drag thought back from libertarian excess to conservative cost/benefit analysis.”

    Here we agree again. A cost/benefit analysis shold always be performed before taking an action. Especially with regard to governments — For example, the TSA needs to go away — they are nothing but tyrants who make the cost of safety too expenseive.

  225. #227 by The Fullertonista on September 8, 2012

    You should take a look a unionization in pubic Universities. Some states and systems are unionized, some are not. I have yet to see any data that those that are not have worse salaries, benefits, working conditions, or job protections.

    And leave the Koch brothers out. I have yet to see any bloggers here tout them as role models or saviors.

  226. #228 by The Fullertonista on September 8, 2012

    Government is only a bulwark against corporate power in rare situations and on paper. In reality it enacts regulation to help corporate power.

    “Dwayne Andreas, former CEO of Archer Daniels Midland, has said, “There isn’t one grain of anything in the world that is sold in a free market. Not one! The only place you see a free market is in the speeches of politicians.” He’s right. Capitalism is based almost entirely on subsidies. For example, commercial fishing fleets worldwide receive more in subsidies than the entire value of their catch. Timber corporations, oil corporations, banks—all would collapse immediately without massive government subsidies and bailouts.” – Derrick Jenson

    Its not corporate power vs. govt power, its corporate power = govt power. The solution is diminishing both sides of the equation and putting that power back to the people.

    In the earlier days of industrialization unions, even non-voluntary ones, were essential and played a major role in securing a living wage and reasonable living conditions. This is a fair cry from Public safety officers being paid over 100.00K, retiring at 50 with massive defined-benefit pensions. But far more to me than the many if the way public employee unions lobby for more protection/less disclosure, for assess forfeiture, or in the case of the prison guard unions for longer sentences, mandatory minimums,etc.

  227. #229 by The Fullertonista on September 8, 2012

    Hi Temple. I’m Jewish and blogger for FFFF. We reject and condemn any anti-Semitic comments on the blog. They are not being written by the bloggers. It is just a few people writing comments and since the blog is unmoderated, we don’t delete them all. But I can assure you this blog doesn’t promote hate speech or racism towards any racial, ethnic, or religious group.

  228. #230 by PittBull on September 8, 2012

    Th first think all cities and counties should do is outsource paramedic services to private firms. There is absolutely no reason to pay high school educated or AA grads like medical doctors. By outsourcing we could save HALF on labor costs and not lose any quality in service. It’s just that the dirty unions have a financial and political stranglehold on the corrupted politicians. That’s why the taxpayers are forced to pay medical doctor wages for blue-collared labor. What a waste of money!

  229. #231 by cg on September 8, 2012

    Thank You for making that post. Things have been getting a little weird on the blog….

  230. #232 by Porky Pig on September 8, 2012

    Some good college football games on today. Let’s all go to the SlideBar and have some Mac n Cheese, fried pickles, cold brews, and watch some good football. Good music too.

    :-)

  231. #233 by Fullerton Lover on September 8, 2012

    There’s a boycott of the Lied Bar that’s starting at 1:30 today.

    Make sure to save your best Mac n Cheesy smile for the cameras that’ll be there.

  232. #234 by Stanley Fiala on September 8, 2012

    “FFFF didn’t have any semitic comments before Diamond showed up and brought his own troll with him”………. Hmmmmmm

    So now you are complaining about semitic comments?…… not antisemitic comets?

    Yet you have not identified one “published” comment — showing points of authority, therefore.

  233. #235 by Porky Pig on September 8, 2012

    Oh cool. Didn’t know that. I’ll video the protest. More entertainment. I wonder what band is playing tonight.

    ;-)

  234. #236 by Stanley Fiala on September 8, 2012

    “I’m Jewish and blogger for FFFF”……… Hmmmmm

    Who cares!

    I was under an impression that you were an American!

  235. #237 by Stanley Fiala on September 8, 2012

    “Things have been getting a little weird on the blog”………. Hmmmmm

    You must take your medication regularly, cg. If you forged to take a dosage, take double amount next day and if you suffer from melancholic attack I suggest electric shocks, lobotomy and/ or corpus callosotomy (not to be confused with colostomy).

  236. #238 by Stanley Fiala on September 8, 2012

    The following is official response to my email http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2012/going-into-labor/#comment-129566 from TBT

    ——– Original Message ——–
    Subject: FFFF and TBT
    Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 11:39:37 -0700 (PDT)
    From: roshpina@sbcglobal.net
    To: edicorp@dslextreme.com

    Hello Mr. Fiala,

    I am not familiar with FFFF (although I know it exists) and do not personally post anything to any blog whatsoever (I’m not even on Facebook!). No one should be using the name TBT without the Temple’s permission (and it has not been given to anyone to speak on behalf of the Temple). No one from TBT has posted anything to FFFF as far as I know and if they did they are not speaking for or on behalf of the Temple.

    Everyone of course has the right to their own opinions.

    I hope this clarifies the situation for you. I would be happy to discuss this further with you or anyone else in person if you desire.

    Rabbi Kenneth Milhander
    Temple Beth Tikvah

  237. #239 by Stanley Fiala on September 8, 2012

    The following is official response to my email http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2012/going-into-labor/#comment-129566 from TBT

    ——– Original Message ——–
    Subject: FFFF and TBT
    Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 11:39:37 -0700 (PDT)
    From: roshpina@sbcglobal.net
    To: edicorp@dslextreme.com

    Hello Mr. Fiala,

    I am not familiar with FFFF (although I know it exists) and do not personally post anything to any blog whatsoever (I’m not even on Facebook!). No one should be using the name TBT without the Temple’s permission (and it has not been given to anyone to speak on behalf of the Temple). No one from TBT has posted anything to FFFF as far as I know and if they did they are not speaking for or on behalf of the Temple.

    Everyone of course has the right to their own opinions.

    I hope this clarifies the situation for you. I would be happy to discuss this further with you or anyone else in person if you desire.

    Rabbi Kenneth Milhander
    Temple Beth Tikvah

  238. #240 by Stanley Fiala on September 8, 2012

    I should add that who ever posted anonymously under TBT label is an AGITATOR like Greg Diamond aka Golem.

    I am willing to accept the above invitation and go with any moron mongoloid from this blog like cg, and meet with Rabbi Kenneth Milhander to explain to him the concept of the antisemitism.

  239. #241 by Fred's Uterus on September 8, 2012

    Time for your estrogen shot, sweetie!

  240. #242 by Fullerton Lover on September 8, 2012

    I’m impressed with the Rabbi’s response to your inquiry.

    Thanks for posting it.

  241. #243 by Fullerton Lover on September 8, 2012

    I think that the Rabbi is just being a stand up guy and saying that he has nothing to hide about posting on the FFFF blog and would welcome any discussion to suggest otherwise.

    Sounds like a good dude to me.

  242. #244 by The Fullertonista on September 8, 2012

    I’d give the Rabbi credit for wasting his time responding. Just don’t send him one of your “all landlords are Jewish” comments.

  243. #245 by Stanley Fiala on September 8, 2012

    “Sounds like a good dude to me”………. Hmmmmm

    Did I say that he is bad dude?

    The underline issue here is antisemitism as used by Golem to advance his Bolshevistic cause in this blog and the OJ.

    Obviously, several anonymous idiots bought into this “Sudden Jew Syndrome” (term used by Golem) to agitate against Americanism and free expression as Rabbi said “Everyone of course has the right to their own opinions”

    However, it is pathetic to accept an opinion from a fraud who is using TBT label without permission.

    Next time do your due-diligence Fullertonista, Fred Alcazar, CG and other haters here to see if the comment is legit.

    Obviously, Fullertonista and CG have no pride to post legit under their own name.

  244. #246 by Stanley Fiala on September 8, 2012

    “I’d give the Rabbi credit for wasting his time responding. Just don’t send him one of your “all landlords are Jewish” comments.”……….. Hmmmmm

    The world is divided into two basic groups of people good and bad.

    Rabbi is good Jew and Fullertonista is bad Jew — most likely a slumlord.

  245. #247 by Anonymous on September 8, 2012

    Stanley is more than a troll, he is the goiter on Diamonds neck

  246. #248 by Annonymous (NON TROLL) on September 8, 2012

    Maliscious Dictators and Despots DO A LOT IN THE U.N., Like funneling Money from Humanitarian Efforts into their and theirs pockets!

  247. #249 by Annonymous (NON TROLL) on September 8, 2012

    Music Sucks really bad.

  248. #250 by Annonymous (NON TROLL) on September 8, 2012

    “The White House has had a lot of practice responding to bad jobs reports. After all, the administration has had to deal with dispiriting employment numbers virtually every month since Barack Obama took office in January 2009. And Friday morning, after word came that the economy added just 96,000 jobs in August — while 368,000 people left the work force, too discouraged to keep looking for a job — the White House faced its monthly challenge: How to soften the impact of terrible news on the employment front?”

    White House broken record: Don’t ‘read too much into’ bad jobs numbers

    September 7, 2012 | 10:41 am
    http://washingtonexaminer.com/white-house-broken-record-dont-read-too-much-into-bad-jobs-numbers/article/2507333#.UEu4XrJlRcR

  249. #251 by Porky Pig on September 8, 2012

    Shots shots shots!

    :-)

  250. #252 by Fullerton Lover on September 8, 2012

    S lied Bar was recently voted in the OC Weekly as the best place in Orange County in 2012 to pick up a one-night stand.

    Make sure you use protection if those shots start making bad decisions for you.

  251. #253 by Porky Pig on September 8, 2012

    LOL funny. Double up. Be safe. :-)

  252. #254 by Fullerton Lover on September 8, 2012

    If it gets too loud at the S lied bar for small talk, here’s an alternative that’s within walking distance…

    http://www.ocweekly.com/bestof/2010/award/best-place-to-pick-up-a-one-night-stand-829368/

  253. #255 by KL on September 8, 2012

    Joe, when will part 2 of your post be up?

  254. #256 by The Fullertonista on September 8, 2012

    Someone needs their thorazine.

  255. #257 by peaches on September 8, 2012

    SF is a clod

  256. #258 by peaches on September 8, 2012

    Last year, before Judy Lynn Bakery was abruptly closed, I stopped by JLB early one Wednesday morning – by early I mean about 7 a.m. – and saw someone who may have been a one-night stand coming off her stand in the alley to the east of the Continental, so I have to believe this. Very sad

  257. #259 by Porky Pig on September 8, 2012

    The walk of shame. Gotta love that.

    :-)

  258. #260 by Greg Diamond on September 9, 2012

    The Kochs funded Walker. This post is pure Koched-up Walkerism.

    Editors, do ‘nista a solid and fix the typo in the ninth word.

  259. #261 by Greg Diamond on September 9, 2012

    Not tellin’ you anything that you don’t already know.

  260. #262 by Greg Diamond on September 9, 2012

    Believe me, I didn’t want him here. But if you’re using that logic, I didn’t start posting in FFFF before it became clear that Tony would run a slate in the recall election, so I guess you’d actually have to go the extra step and attribute Stanley’s presence to that.

  261. #263 by Greg Diamond on September 9, 2012

    Thanks to Obama, in 2014 I’ll be able to afford surgery. Until then, Stanley’s considered a pre-enlightenment condition.

  262. #264 by Greg Diamond on September 9, 2012

    By the way, he has a comment on OJB right now. I tolerate him when he’s merely being funny (and he does have wit at times) rather than doing things like calling Fullertonista “most likely a slumlord,” which is why I started chopping up his offensive comments like Yossarian redacting letters in Catch-22.

  263. #265 by nipsey on September 9, 2012

    I’ve been here a lot longer than you have, and will be here after you are gone because of shared interest in seeing business as usual in Fullerton overturned. So, fuck you. And John Stossel is a third rate malcontent nobody.

  264. #266 by PorkyPigsKarma on September 9, 2012

    Where can I apply to be the new Cheif?

  265. #267 by Stanley Fiala on September 9, 2012

    “By the way, he has a comment on OJB right now”……… Hmmmmmm

    I bet you had an orgasm! See My points of authority at Genesis 38:3-10.

  266. #268 by Porky Pig on September 9, 2012

    Anytime. You might be the only applicant though lol :-)

    PorkyPigsKarma :
    Where can I apply to be the new Cheif?

  267. #269 by Porky Pig on September 9, 2012

    Yea Joe get #2 up and make sure you make a bunch of stuff up too. This place is dead lately. I need entertainment.

    :-)

  268. #270 by KL on September 9, 2012

    Are Joe and Travis offroading this weekend or something?

  269. #271 by Porky Pig on September 9, 2012

    LOL they are out of dirt. They need drama. They even ran out of lies. Struggling. :-(

  270. #272 by Boogie woodie on September 9, 2012

    Either that or they’re too busy sucking each other’s cocks!

  271. #273 by November 2012 on September 9, 2012

    #267 by KL on September 8, 2012

    Joe, when will part 2 of your post be up?

    They are on the down low trying to do damage control.

    FFFF and it’s posters have become a political liability for Kiger, Whitaker and Norby. The marching orders are to lay low until after the election. The voters may view posting on FFFF and place educated, informed votes which don’t include votes for the above mentioned candidates.

    The fear is the voter may get an unfiltered look into the platform and minds of Kiger, Whitaker and Norby through their most loyal supporters, the posters and bloggers here at FFFF.

    The man and his puppets are being exposed for who they are and it’s coming at a bad time with the election 2 months away.
    Don’t expect many of the entertaining baseless posts you have come to expect here at FFFF, until after the election.

  272. #274 by Fullerton isn't stupid on September 9, 2012

    Delusional, Psychos, Trollshit!!

  273. #275 by Tuco Ramirez on September 9, 2012

    re: November 2012:
    Whatever names you mention, I say my own things. I have posted on here for over a year. No one has called me to tell me what to say. I am an intelligent old fart with a shit load of degrees who can shoot straight too. Just ask Blondie!
    The one thing I enjoyed about your post, November is the line: entertaining baseless posts. Yours is one of those NON entertaining baseless AND useless posts!

  274. #276 by peaches on September 9, 2012

    Thanks, Tuco :)

  275. #277 by Stanley Fiala on September 9, 2012

    “They are on the down low trying to do damage control”………….. Hmmmmm

    I doubt that!

    However, if they do they are in self destruct mode and would be wrong to sit in the council chamber anyway.

    About 90% of Fullerton’s registered voters have no clue what “F”FFF means. They may thing that it is title of some hard porno flick anyway.

    Even Rabbi Kenneth Milhander is clueless about this blog.

    So it is safe to say that the outcome of this election will be largely effected by astrology and menstrual cycle.

    People vote based on their emotions, if they are happy they vote for incumbents and if they are unhappy they do not vote what so ever.

    So expect low turnout.

    I should add my Bohemian wisdom and recommend to open little lemonade stands in front of the each voting precinct operated by children with designated adult who would spike the lemonade with cheap Russian vodka.

    Then advertise this event in last issue of the Penny Saver before November 7, 2012 election day.

    That can make lot of people happy.

  276. #278 by truthseeker on September 11, 2012

    And implementing eugenics programs on a worldwide scale.

Comments are closed.