Welcome To Floryland

The closer you look, the worse it gets.

When you have an inflated sense of self-worth it must be hard to come up against a wall of objective facts that square with the reality everyone else sees. Thus narcissists and paranoiacs must concoct a narrative that seems to embrace those facts and yet tell the myth you want everyone to believe about yourself.

And so we have Jan Flory: a rigid, humorless, sometimes near-hysterical defender of an ideology that has placed California on the edge of financial insolvency. Think Greece.

Flory’s ridiculous muumuus and wooden beads are symbolic of a much more sinister problem: a fundamental dishonesty about herself and her corrupt mind set.

But don’t take my word for it. Lets examine Flory’s own Facebook rants. Like this latest, with added commentary by me.

DRIP, DRIP, DRIP

At 12:15 a.m. last night, the City Council took up the question of how to refund $7.3 million to people who overpaid their water bills in our city over the past 3 years. Mayor Sharon Quirk moved to continue the matter to the next city council meeting because of the late hour. Doug Chaffee concurred. Bruce Whitaker, Travis Kiger and Greg Sebourn voted to go forward no matter how late or how tired the council members. It also might have had something to do with the fact that the audience had dwindled to a handful by that time. So much for transparency and accountability.

Or it might have had something to do with the fact that hours and hours of time had been unnecessarily wasted by Quirk and Chaffee promoting the candidacy of Danny Hughes as Chief, despite the fact that the Council had already decided it wanted to do a wide recruitment instead of ramming home the inside goon. Transparency? Check. Accountability? Check.

Reality? If Flory is tired and can’t stay up past Murder She Wrote reruns on cable she shouldn’t be on any city council.

A little history first: To begin with, the water fee was never an “illegal water tax”.

Lie number one. Keep counting.

The water tax was first adopted in 1968 at 2% of the water bill. The purpose of the tax was to pass through to the ratepayers (you and me) the city’s cost of getting water to your tap. Fair enough. The tax increased to 10% in 1970. We had aging reservoirs, pumps and water lines that needed replacement and ongoing maintenance. The water fee was a way to do that.

Now that’s just another series of outright lies. But let’s not let the facts stand in the way of a good story, right? The 10% was originally cooked up to divert revenue into the General Fund to pay for the City Attorney and City Administrator. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ONGOING MAINTENANCE AND AGING INFRASTRUCTURE. Flory could have actually read the ordinance but that wouldn’t have been as fun making something up.

In any case there was never any accounting to see how bad the rip off really was, and in the old days water was dirt cheap, right?

In 1996, the California voters passed Proposition 218 which required there be a connection between a fee charged and the services rendered. In other words, you couldn’t just pull a number (like 10%) out of the air.

One truth accidentally tumbles out!

Proposition 218 was tested and upheld by the courts beginning in 2002.

Aha! Flory slips in a date to give herself an alibi for her own approval of the illegal tax for six years! Too bad that upon learning the truth she and her cohorts continued to steal the 10% each and every year for the next NINE YEARS. No talk about fixing the rip-off, apologizing to the ratepayers, trying to reclaim even a small mole hill of moral ground. Nope.

The Water Rate Study Committee was authorized by the OLD council long before the Recall to address concerns about the 10% charge to the Water Fund.

And at whose behest? Not city staff or you, Flory, we can be sure of that. It was political pressure that did it.

Ultimately, the study committee determined this summer that the city should have been charging in the neighborhood of 7% rather than 10% in order to comply with 218.

Another outright lie. The Committee determined no such thing. The staff-chosen consultant cooked up a phoney number to keep as much of the rip-off as possible including exorbitant rents paid to the City! Even Quirk said it was ridiculous!

The committee relied on the work of an independent financial consultant, Municipal Financial Services Group (MFSG), to determine the City’s cost in providing water to its customers, and outside legal counsel (Best, Best & Krieger) to make sure that the outcome comported with Proposition 218.

Independent? Now that’s just comical!

The results were even submitted to the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association that concurred with the methodology used in the study.

Wrong, again. But by now is anybody counting?

The NEW council majority threw all that out the window, disregarded the recommendations of the Water Rate Study Committee, and completely eliminated the “in lieu” fee. That will have the effect of reducing city revenues annually by $1.7 million which could have properly been charged by the city to bring water to our homes.

Let’s all gloss over the fact that no one has ever said a proper water rate shouldn’t cover costs of maintenance and infrastructure. If it doesn’t Flory has only her own beloved staff to blame – those same incompetent bureaucrats like Chis Meyer and Joe Felz who have let the City’s infrastructure go to hell as they feathered their own nests handsomely. In the meantime, the “in-lieu” fee had no legal rationale for existing since it wan an obvious triple dip. Step one was to get rid of it. Step two is find out what the true costs of running the water utility really is, and charge it to the ratepayers.

Because the city had charged its water customers 10% (rather than 7%), the Water Rate Study Committee found that the city had overcharged the rate payers the sum of $7.3 million over the last 3 years.

Once again, those were the cooked up findings of the hired “consultant.”

It recommended that the overpayment of the water fee be accomplished by an incremental transfer from the General Fund to the Water Fund to be used for infrastructure repairs,–something that desperately needs addressing. This would also avoid the City’s incurring debt to pay the debt.

Um, see comment above. How did the water infrastructure get so bad, Mrs. Flory? You were on the City Council for eight long years. Do want to take responsibility for that? What? Speak up!

What did the new Libertarian majority do? It voted to rebate the entire $7.3 million back to the rate payers. It is estimated that this will be a onetime payment of $100 to $400 per household depending on how much water was used during the 3 years.

The horror. Government giving back something it stole!

It’s an accounting nightmare for several reasons. The overpayment has to be calculated for each household in the city. Some residents have moved or died; thus, creating the dilemma of finding out where to send the money.

But Jan, are you saying your beloved staff can’t figure out a way to print and send out some checks? Hell, they manage to send out the water and trash bills every month.

Finally, the question of where the money is to come from must be determined. We don’t have enough in the General Fund to pay the lump sum. Staff suggested that a debt issuance might be necessary, with an estimated yearly debt service of $500,000.

Put away the violin Mrs. Flory. Step up and take your medicine. You and Bankhead and Jones and McKinley ripped us off for 15 years. YOU figure out how to make it right!

So now we not only have a decrease of $1.7 million in revenue, but we need to add $500,000 for debt service. This totals $2.2 million if you’re counting.

See, it’s all about government revenue, the altar at which the egregious muumuu clad priestess Flory worships. Yes we can count and we know whose balance sheet this belongs on – even though it’s on ours.

Last night, the council majority (Whitaker, Kiger and Sebourn) directed staff to find “creative ways” to pay off the debt such as selling off surplus properties. In other words, asking city staff to remove the rope the council majority had put around its own neck.

Wrong, again, Flory. They are asking city staff to do the right thing, and remove the rope YOU put around our necks for all those years.

Change on the Council cannot come quickly enough. Drip, drip, drip.

It’s coming all right. be careful of what you wish for.

185 thoughts on “Welcome To Floryland

  1. Johnny Donut

    There’s a special place in Jan Flory’s heart for illegal water taxes. She just can’t bear to see them go.

    Reply
      1. Greg Diamond

        Yeah, because their understanding was that it was legal. How terrible, them doing something that they thought was legal!

        Reply
          1. Greg Diamond

            SQS was relying on the advice of City staff regarding its legality. What was Nelson doing — or Whitaker until last year? The same. Nor was this blog continually beating the drum on the issue until it became politically advantageous to do so.

            (Thanks for choosing a name that distinguishes your comments from time.)

            Reply
            1. Gregorio Diamante

              So in other words Quirky was misled by staff. Didn’t you just attack Kiger on the DUI issue because he couldn’t find the nexus between the grants?

              Oh right, staff didn’t tell him. Staff’s been doing that a lot haven’t they? Maybe that’s Gin Flurry loves them so – “the heart of the city” was her phrase, I believe.

              Whitaker was elected in November 2010 and did indeed raise the issue the following spring which is the only reason that Water rate group picked up the topic in 2011, so once again you are wrong.

              Reply
              1. Greg Diamond

                No, City staff was itself relying on legal opinions that neither you nor I have read. That’s what they’re supposed to do. You just assume that the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association is the definitive word on the law. It isn’t, not by a long shot.

                Kiger, by contrast, could have had the truth about the nexus between the grants simply by asking for it. He didn’t — or, if he did, I guess he either didn’t believe it or didn’t care.

                I forget that he was elected to a short-term seat. OK, I give him credit. That criticism is restricted to Shawn Nelson, then.

                Reply
                1. nipsey

                  Wow that’s a pretty curious thing to say for someone who is purportedly a lawyer. The Howard Jarvis letter cited CASE LAW, not some untested idea they cooked up over lunch. Furthermore it was case law about which they were pretty knowledgeable, since they were cases HJTA litigated and won.

                2. The Fullerton Harpoon

                  Hey Clarence Darrow, read the Roseville case. And then once and for all admit you don’t know what in the Hell you are talking about.

                3. Greg Diamond

                  @nipsey — anyone can quote case law. The questions are whether the case law will have been quoted in proper context, will still be “good law” based on the nature of the authority providing it and any intervening court decisions or legislative or administrative activity, and the extent to which it is “on point” given the facts at hand in the case where it is to be applied. So “they quoted case law” ought not dazzle one.

                  @Harpoon: for the reasons presented above, reading the Roseville case wouldn’t be definitive. As my concern is more about the remedy chosen than the need for a change (which seems to be generally accepted for about a third of the fee in question), I’m not bothering with it. Even if it’s entirely “on point” as a matter of law, the Council still just screwed up in choosing a remedy.

  2. Real Liberal

    I was sickened watching the demise of liberalism in Fullerton at the last city council meeting. Whether it was trying to bully the council into supporting their candidate for police chief or decrying the idea of refunding illegally gained monies to ratepayers, Fullerton’s “liberals” (I use that term loosely) continue to side with the most anti-democratic urges imaginable. Attacking city council people for supporting a broad police search and not being bullied by police into supporting their candidates. Attacking city council people in bogus mailers for supporting marijuana legalization or decriminalization. Urging that stolen funds not be returned. Getting your kids to demand that blogs censor themselves in violation of the principle of free speech. Fullerton liberals can’t even solidly get behind preventing Chevron from developing Coyote Hills – splitting on that issue, or just ignoring it.

    You don’t have to agree with any of this, but if you’re a liberal and you don’t understand what is wrong with the above, guess what. You’ve lost the plot completely. I see about three real liberal out there and the best (Mr. Baxter) isn’t running for office. The establishment liberals are a sham, a cruel fraud, a disgrace.

    Liberalism in Fullerton is dead. Stop blaming others, you killed it off yourself by embracing special interests and being more supportive of public unions and city coffers then your own citizens. Your pursuit of cheap political gain has robbed you of the moral high ground which was all you ever had.

    Reply
    1. van get it da artiste

      like every social contract, what did Fullerton’s provincial liberals get in exchange for selling out there convictions?

      Reply
        1. van get it da artiste

          and those who don’t get lelected to city office but work for the city of fullerton or county of orange, what do they get when they exchange their morals for money thrown to them by fullerton city council memnbers?
          just my opinion

          Reply
        2. SHIMON MENDEL

          I think myself a life-long liberal; but flawed as it is, I’m voting yes on 32. My yes vote is simply a cry to level the playing field a bit in local politics. Back in old days in was the nasty Chamber of Commerce and real estate people who were the bad guys. It’s now the local employee unions who are looking for the whore who is or wants to be on the Council who will give them the best bang for their bucks.
          A situation that needs to change. Bushala has him agenda — that’s ok for now. He and his are having their day in the sun. Hopefully things will balance out in the longer run.

          Reply
    2. Greg Diamond

      In a time of emergency, some unusual political coalitions come together. In this case, the emergency is Tony’s Gang of Three wanting to bankrupt the city so as to sell off its assets — made explicit last night — and create a economically libertarian low-governance Ethiopian-style paradise.

      You mischaracterize the attacks with which liberals are allowed. (No liberal was pushing to slam Whitaker for smoking pot.) Meanwhile, one thing real liberals do when they pronounce that sort of bill of grievances is to use their own name. You won’t — because you actually aren’t one.

      Reply
            1. Greg Diamond

              I will redouble my efforts. New and more involved conspiracy theories! New pathetic half-witted insults! Longer word counts! More self-righteousness! More moral superiority! Intrepid defenses of myself! Threats of lawsuits! Denunciations of everyone who is not me! Blogging supremacy at least in my own mind!

              Reply
                1. Greg Diamond

                  Please note that this imposter is not me. He is a fake liberal who is scared to use his own name. I am in the process of writing a particularly clever blog post about this which will establish my verbal acumen. Also I am going to send several letters of complaints to Tony and the federal government. TONY! WHY DON’T YOU RETURN MY CALLS ANY MORE? WHAT HAPPENED TO US?? TONEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

      1. Greg Diamond

        The response beginning “in a time of emergency” is mine. All of the rest following it, except this one, are by someone using my name without permission and without flagging the identity theft for readers. The managers of this site can verify it by comparing URLs. (I’d love to know the URL of the imposter, but I doubt they’ll provide it.) Because someone has now sunk this low, everyone please don’t presume that, if a comment has my name, it necessarily comes from me. I’ll copy my comments to the most recent open thread at OJB to confirm that they’re mine.

        I’d ask people to condemn this kind of cowardly bullshit, but I’ve learned not to expect that you will.

        Reply
          1. Greg Diamond

            Did I mention suing? I doubt that it’s worth the time. But I certainly do complain about cowardly bullshit like yours.

            Reply
        1. SHIMON MENDEL

          I could bitch and moan about the illiterate, angry, single-minded, people who like it here, but I won’t.

          But, come on people! Is it sooo hard to see that massive refund from the City, will come close to bankrupting it! I know all the radical libertarians will jump up and down with glee at the thought of the City of Fullerton crashing to the ground in a heap of cheap real estate — but, please restrain yourselves, just a bit.

          Reply
        2. Greg Diamond

          You are horrible cowards to not let me dominate your blog that I am completely unwanted in. You know the blog that tries to actually bring democracy and social justice to your community? You have sunk so low as to not realize my superior political opinions on everything. How dare you not recognize the wonderful contributions I have made to your town by not doing anything for it except blogging.

          Reply
          1. Greg Diamond

            Also not by me. Travis, you should be able to confirm this based on the IP address and — depending on your sense of ethics — take appropriate action..

            Reply
      2. van get it da artiste

        “economically libertarian low-governance Ethiopian-style paradise.” Really? please, what comments made by “bushala’s gang” convinces you these persons want to create warlords and famines within the fullerton’s city limits?

        Reply
      3. Gregorio Diamante

        And why is it that Tony has NEVER ONCE responded to any of my million comments?

        Have I completely devalued myself? Oh right.

        Reply
          1. Greg Diamond

            You are identity thieves who desire to live in Ethiopia and bankrupt the world so you can privatize it and buy it at cut-rate prices. The fact that this would force rents and property values down and you would then lose money on these deals is meaningless because otherwise the absurd premise of my blather would unravel. This must not be allowed to happen because my entire self-esteems as a person rests upon my idiotic blogging and constant need for attention and affirmation.

            Reply
    3. Joseph D'Hippolito

      Liberalism in Fullerton should be dead! Liberalism, progressivism, call it what you will, is nothing but a fraud perpetuated by insecure, self-righteous people who will exploit the poor to acquire power in their name, yet do nothing for them. Don’t believe me? Just look at the Obama Administration. Flory and Quirk-Silva are just Establishment parasites who can’t live w/o power. So is Bankhead, and he’s not liberal.

      Reply
  3. Now I See

    Ok here’s how the Bushala plan works. Have his councilman buddies sell off city property to fund the water tax refund which in turn is bought by Bushala at a discounted price. The property is developed to house large numbers of illegals to match the other slums operated by the slumlord.

    Reply
    1. Greg Diamond

      It’s mostly a ruse to try to bankrupt the city. Wealthy developers being able to buy off city property at fire sale prices is simply a bonus. To think that the latter is what’s driving the policy of making this cost as much as possible to the city is too depressing. (Well, I’d need more evidence, anyway.)

      This is the really telling part of the above:

      “Let’s all gloss over the fact that no one has ever said a proper water rate shouldn’t cover costs of maintenance and infrastructure. … Step one was to get rid of it. Step two is find out what the true costs of running the water utility really is, and charge it to the ratepayers.”

      That statement, on its own, is actually pretty reasonable. I’d have no problem with disputed funds going into escrow — while the City determines whether the money can go to needed infrastructure repairs. But this leaves out Step one-and-a-half: give away all of the disputed money to people, including landlords who already passed on the cost of it to tenants (just as they do with property taxes), to make moving the money to infrastructure impossible.

      And that’s because the goal is to create an artificial fiscal crisis that might justify bankruptcy and (they fantasize) cancellation of pension obligations. The problem is that this is so transparently an attempt to voluntary sink the City budget that a Bankruptcy Judge will see right through it and disallow it. I’m not sure what remedy that Judge would put into place, but I have a feeling that — if the Council truly does seem intent on bankrupting the city — it might be some sort of receivership.

      I’m surprised that they showed all of their cards quite this early. Tony must be worried that Travis is gonna lose.

      Reply
        1. Greg Diamond

          Real liberals don’t change the subject to personal insults. Really fake liberals like you do.

          It’s OK, readers will note that, in response, you got nothing.

          Reply
            1. Anony

              +1 Sorry GD… not sure what readers you were hoping for. Loved this post. I imagine other readers did too. Your schtick is so predictable and tired we can’t help but laugh.

              Reply
              1. Greg Diamond

                Again, no discussion of substance. Neither you nor I know how the lurkers react to this sort of exchange, but I’m betting that they can tell a substantive critique from bullshit insults.

                Reply
                1. Greg Diamond

                  Once I am elected I’ll try to pass a law that everybody must engage with all of my comments, no matter how dimwitted, error-filled, and nonsensical they are. And they will have to use their real names and RFID numbers.

                2. anonyface

                  Not when you are so full of yourself and so in love with that sound that you give us the same verbose critique each time, all fluff, lacking substance, while trying to explain to us why it is okay that your had Flory’s Fullerton stole from taxpayers, and trying to vilify Kiger, Whitaker, and Sebourn for opting to do the right thing and return the stolen money.

                  What it must be like to live in your world, where the blogging of an unemployed ex lawyer who doesn’t leave the house enough are to be treasured, and candidates like Booze Flory should be praised for stealing from us and publicly backing and kissing ass to men who failed at running their city.

                  Wait- I actually don’t want to know. Please don’t respond. This blog has enough of your bullshit propaganda posts filling it up already.

                3. Greg Diamond

                  An imposter posting under my name says:

                  “Once I am elected I’ll try to pass a law that everybody must engage with all of my comments, no matter how dimwitted, error-filled, and nonsensical they are. And they will have to use their real names and RFID numbers.”

                  If someone on Orange Juice Blog tried to engage in the sort of identity theft that this commenter is doing, and the person having their identity abused complained about it as I already have, I’d fling the perp off the blog so fast that their monitor would spin.

                  Not Travis, though! The man’s made of stern stuff!

      1. Cold Chillin' Cops Balls

        I agree that this may be an effort to intentionally bankrupt the city. Once the city declares bankruptcy, the Gang of Three will attempt to invalidate employment contacts with City employees, and will attempt to weasel out of pension obligations.

        Reply
          1. Cold Chillin' Cops Balls

            No, because the full force of Calpers’ legal unit would defend against this, making the cost to the city for an uncertain legal outcome prohibitive. The sad thing is that the Gang of Three is stupid enough to try it anyway. The legal costs would be several million dollars, and the City would likely be on the hook for Calpers’ legal fees as well.

            Reply
            1. Lifesaving Service

              Were it not for many very very concerned citizens, the then City leadership and FPD would have continued into their crash course into darkness and bankruptcy (OF MORAL, ETHICAL, FINANCIAL, and of the SOUL)

              The City of Bell had it so sweet compared to Fullerton.

              @FFFF Tolls, NO, it doesnt matter how they do it in Bengazi Lybia, or Iran.

              Reply
            2. Greg Diamond

              Unless the Councilmembers can personally be put on the hook for it, they won’t care. That’s the problem. Win the case, great; lose the case and hang the cost on the city, also great.

              It’s a rare case that calls for receivership, but this could be one.

              Reply
        1. Joseph D'Hippolito

          You know, Greg, I read all about you in OC Weekly. You’re nothing but a fat parasite like Flory and Quirk-Silva trying to leech off the poor so you can satisfy your lust for political power — and, as you know, the OC Weekly is not a “conservative” or “libertarian” publication.

          I’m sick and tired of bastards like Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Agran, Jerry Brown, the Dumbocrapic Party, syndicalist parasites and the rest of the nouveau-socialistes, like you, Greg. We need a revolution in this country. We need the good people of America to rise up, get their weapons, and shoot these “progressives” wherever they can be found or put them in camps. Then we nationalize the universities and march all the “liberal” professors of ethnic and gender studies out to the Great Plains, where they can perform agricultural work with the “common people” they claim to love while they sip their mocha-java-lattes at Starbucks.

          Then we make the Dumbocrapic Party, the Piss and Lack-of-Freedom Party and the Green-with-Nausea Party illegal.

          Reply
            1. Fullerton Lover

              ” We need the good people of America to rise up, get their weapons, and shoot these “progressives” wherever they can be found or put them in camps.”

              I like Steve Brow’s much more civilized approach of voting the out of office instead of carrying them out of office in a body bag.

              Reply
            1. peaches

              Google is good – I believe this is the same Joseph D’Hippolito:

              Joseph D’Hippolito

              Joseph has been a freelance writer since 1993. Before then, he was with the Orange County Register for six years. He graduated from California State University, Fullerton, with bachelor’s degrees in Communications and History. Among his achievements is delivering a paper at the meeting of the Pacific Coast Branch of the American Historical Association at the University of Washington in 1984. He has also covered two Stanley Cup finals, one World Series, one NBA Finals and six Rose Bowls.

              Affiliation: Freelance (The Associated Press | Reuters | USA Today | Globe and Mail | Washington Post | Canadian Press | Jerusalem Post)

              Location: Fullerton, California

              Reply
              1. Greg Diamond

                I’d want his IP address anyway. You may be shocked to learn this, but this blog won’t necessarily do anything even when someone is adopting someone’s identity in a post.

                While your information is helpful (and shocking), I don’t presume that this is really necessary a post from that person; I’d leave it to the pros to investigate.

                Reply
          1. Steve Brow

            It might be less destructive simply to recognize the limitations of the progressive mindset and to vote them out. Things are looking up for November.

            The last time that Americans started shooting at each other, 3% of the population died. That would be a 9,000,000 death toll today.

            Is that what you want?

            Reply
          2. Greg Diamond

            Travis and/or Tony, please email me this person’s IP address and other identifying information so that I can take appropriate action. I’ll e-mail you a link to this comment to ensure that you’ve received notice.

            Thank you to my frequent political opponents Friendly Neighbor, Fullerton Lover, and Steve Brow for their appropriate reactions to this post. It speaks well of you.

            Reply
            1. carpetbagger

              WHOOO!

              Big Bad greg shopping IP Addresses.

              1) unless you are incredibly smart or have the $$$ to spend on software, IP Addresses are generally WORTHLESS in identifying individuals.

              GREG is/has neither.

              2) He approached Pedroza with the the same threat, when I beat the shit out of his Carpetbagging canidate (hence my name) Julio Perez. He pussed out then too.

              3) Greg Diamond is a Paper Tiger. He has flamed out in OC politics, trying to insert himself in EVERY fucking debate, but accomplishing nothing. He is useless and harmless, but, much like a bad infection, he justs tries to infect an otherwise healthy organism.

              To my point #3, this is a shame, because the OC Democrats could use an educated, sharp guy like Greg, but unfortunately his distance to the political reality of the landscape (Occupy??? In OC, come the fuck on). He’ll cry over the downtrodden but support the FPOA and SQS???

              Somebody (if there is such a person) in the party ought to say enough is enough. Greg is to the DPOC what the crazy Bitch from Villa park is to the OCGOP (an overzelous maniac).

              What a fool.

              Reply
              1. FREE BURGERS

                Q: Which state senate candidate identifies “sleeping in a tent” as his greatest political achievement?

                A: Unemployed Occupier Greg Diamond!

                Reply
                1. Not Greg Diamond

                  The trouble is Diamond didn’t sleep in a tent. As Moxely so perfectly points out, he inserted himself into the movement.

                  Most Occupy OC members don’t know Greg Diamond from Jesus Christ. Those that do have commented he was an itrusive blowhard know it all.

                  Even in the confines of the ultra free spririt freedom movement people couldn’t stand him. He was a big mouth blowhard.

                  Correction: He IS a big mouth blowhard.

      2. van get it da artiste

        bankruptcy? You target tony bushala as a puppet master who merely manipulates Kiger to do his evil bidding to force the city of fullerton into bankruptcy so he can cut a deal on fullerton real estate.
        So the entire recall effort, the protests over the kelly thomas murder by fullerton pd, the history of fullerton pd civil rights abuses against fullerton’s community hushed up by the old city council with legal settlements to the victims, the preference for developers for fullerton redevelopment projects because they wined and dined then fullerton city council members sharon quirk silva and pam keller and the illegal water tax for the last fifteen years coupled with the recent revelation this tax did not maintain fullerton’s infrastructure for water supply as it is now falling apart, this same tax siphoned off to pad pensions and salaries of fullerton’s municipal employees never happened to us? Based on your logic, Greg, the community of fullerton has been whipped into an illogical frenzy orchestrated by bushala and his puppets to force the city o fullerton into bankruptcy so bushala gets a deal on fullerton real estate. wow, what must it be like to live in your simplistic world?
        just my opinion

        Reply
        1. Steve Brow

          Typical progressive boilerplate is to distract from logical arguements that do not fit the progressive mold by painting the speaker in some supposedly unfavorable light. An ad hominum arguement in answer to a logical presentation.

          Shockingly, I have even caught some members of my own family using this ploy.

          Reply
        2. Greg Diamond

          I don’t think that Tony simply manipulates Travis. I think that Travis is plenty messed up by himself.

          The issue here, though, is that Travis and his mates have chosen a response to this problem that involves selling off city property under distressed circumstances. Who better or more likely than Tony to buy them? It’s … noteworthy.

          Reply
    2. Anonymous

      Now I See,
      I suggest that you watch the City Council tape at 6H9M, and observe Chris Thompson suggesting to the City Council that they consider asking if ratepayers would consider a reduction on their future water rates in lieu of a one time payment for over charges from the past three years.

      This would help out homeowners/ratepayers in this poor economy by reducing their current water rates until they were paid back in full the money the city had overcharged them.

      Reply
    3. van get it da artiste

      I thought that is what fullerton’s redevelopments did. OOps! my wrong! fullerton’s redevelopment destroyed low-income housing usually inhabitated by immigrants and shifted them anywhere but fullerton. In its place, fullerton redevelopment built affordable housing for the middle class and unfairly competed with private developers because redevelopment uses tax dollars (our money) in their home building ventures. just my opinion

      Reply
    4. SHIMON MENDEL

      Strangely, I that might be a good scenario??? May not appeal to all NIMBYs here, but people who earn less than $50k a year got to live somewhere.

      Reply
      1. van get it da artiste

        shimon, for a family of four, the potential buyer had to earn an annual income over $75000. Actually a family earning over $100,000 a year qualified for this affordable housing. It was not built for persons earning less than $50,000 a year. the “affordable housing” investors wanted guaranteed returns on their investment.
        my opinion

        Reply
    5. I SPY

      Since when was it OK for the old City Council to buy property from their friends. How much did they buy and the City owns? Over a hundred properties? Anyone have the figures? It should be sold.

      Reply
  4. Anonymous

    Robert Leone released from jail.
    http://www.pressconnects.com/article/20121017/NEWS01/310170024/Vestal-man-beaten-by-Pa-police-released-from-jail?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

    ((“U.S. Rep. Thomas Marino, R-Lycoming spokeswoman Sarah Wolf said in a written statement.

    “It is our understanding that, to date, no local, state, or federal law enforcement agency has chosen to pursue criminal charges against the officers, however, Mr. Leone has an ongoing federal lawsuit against those involved in the incident.”))
    ^
    What utter and complete fail by this US Rep and his worthless spokeshole.

    Reply
    1. Anonymous

      per court documents, Roger Stipcak is the trooper who pinned Robert’s driver side door closed with his squad car and than tasered Leone through the t-tops of his car. He also was the one who jumped from the roof of the car onto Robert’s back while he was restrained.

      Reply
  5. van get it da artiste

    thank you for your insightful analysis. It is refreshing when the good people of Fullerton use the truth to reveal the duplicitous natures of our present and past city council persons.
    flory has no shame because she continues to lie to and manipulate the good people of fullerton into paying more taxes to pad the salaries and pensions of Fullerton’s municipal employees.
    Flory has no morals as she continues to promote herself as representative of the good people of fullerton, when in fact she has only represented her civic special interests at cost to us.
    flory must not return to any sphere of political power as her political history shows her to be a traitor to the laws and ideals of our nation. Taxation without representation still is illegal, city “o” fullerton is no exception

    Reply
  6. Tuco Ramirez

    “The question of where the money is to come from must be determined. We don’t have enough in the General Fund to pay the lump sum (to refund the water tax)”!
    Well, Ms. Flory, you also have to set aside a few million for the Fullerton Police Department and Chief Danny who think busting heads and sexual perversions in the back seat of police cars are business as usual. Ask Veth Mam and Kelly Thomas (oops, you can’t any more!).
    If you have no money in the general fund to refund water tax ripoffs, how are you possibly gonna pay for those civil suits against FPD miscreants? Why would you support Danny Hughes as Chief if he is one of those in charge of the Fullerton 6 that were sent out that fateful day? You just said the city cannot afford to pay these refunds and civil suits since there is no money in the general fund! You gonna float bonds to pay for police misconduct? That should kill the Fullerton credit rating that was already dumped once this year!

    Reply
    1. Get Real

      AS any person familiar with large companies or Cities, they have insurance to pay for large suits. Doen’t anybody have any sense here of reality. Why isTonyB not setting the record straight on this item or is it not to his advantage! Rhetorical question! I am sure Whitaker is awre of this, I am also sure “skippy” Kiger is clueless unless informed by his boss.
      But the REAL question is if the Three Stooges pushed forward the refund knowing it might bankrupt the City are they three people who are protecting and cring about the Cities interests. If no… we don’t need them anymore… they have done thier job… Making Bankhead, Jones and McKinley look good!

      Reply
        1. Get Real

          Lifesaving Service. Takes one to know one!
          At least I have a conscience and try to rationally think out solutions not just rant!

          Reply
          1. Tuco Ramirez

            Get Real: That is not how the insurance works! Fullerton chose to be self insured. Only huge amounts are paid by a consortium of insurance groups. So Fullerton is on the hook for settlements in the same year since this year already had $1,000,000 to Kelly’s mother and $350,000 for the sexually perverted cop with the overactive back seat!
            Add to that he costs of the civil litigations, hmmmmm, those attorneys do not work for free!

            Reply
            1. Get Real

              Thanks for the information. I guess I have been in the private sector too long and assume Cities are as cautions as big business. Guess Not!

              Reply
        1. Fullerton Rudy

          She sure likes to dress up that little kid and drag him around. I suspect serious mother issues for that poor boy later in life.

          Where the hell is dad? Does he like it that his kid got dressed up as Cupid to open Daly’s Fullerton branch?

          Reply
          1. The Fullerton Harpoon

            Keller’s manipulation of that kid for her own wacky political agenda borders on child abuse. The dress up thing is plenty weird.

            Reply
  7. Her voice is from the depths of Hell

    Do you really want to listen to that?
    Alvarez stands for nothing!
    And that Fitzgerald thing? What on earth!

    Reply
      1. mala puta

        How many hundreds of thousands of dollars did this piece of shit cost society because he wouldn’t take his meds and couldn’t behave himself? 92 separate contacts and how many stints in jail?? He didn’t deserve to die, but he certainly deserved a solid ass beating because of his never-ending jerk off behavior.

        Reply
        1. Fullerton Rudy

          Actually, the ones that beat him to death will cost us hundreds of thousands.

          Being a jerk off isn’t even illegal. Killing a man is.

          Reply
          1. Daniel KaFee

            Saying “See these gloves? They are ready to fuck you up….IF YOU DON’T COOPERATE!!! Isn’t 2nd degree murder. WTF!!

            Reply
            1. popo

              Well…if you proceed to then actually follow through and the person dies, then yep…I would call that murder. Second degree being generous.

              Reply
              1. Anonymous

                If he would of said “I am gonna kill you”, maybe then only maybe, cause those are just words. But f you up is maybe a beating, not death.

                Reply
        2. Nomad

          I’ll bet a cold cell can be found for you, right next to your hero’s cici, ramos, and wolfe any time you feel like trying to administer a “solid ass beating” to anyone, tuff guy…

          Reply
    1. Defense 101

      Defense 101

      The District Attorney’s Office confirmed that it compiled the report on Thomas’ police history. Chief of Staff Susan Kang Schroeder called it a common practice, especially when prosecutors expect the defense to use a victim’s criminal history to attack their case.

      “It’s in the typical defense playbook to try to dirty up the victim. It’s defense strategy 101,” Schroeder said. In this case, she added, “Kelly Thomas’ background is mostly being homeless.”

      Reply
      1. Daniel KaFee

        And a thief, burglar, attempted murder, later dropped to ADW, flasher, violent behavior….I am sure I am leaving out a lot more incidents.

        Reply
        1. popo

          Well…I suppose the FPD are just the men to clean up this town….fuck the court system. Let’s just saddle up and start the hangins’

          Reply
    2. Daniel KaFee

      Hey T-Rack/Susan Kang… Why didn’t the defense have that 36 page report on Kelly’s background? What are you hiding? Doesn’t look good for you .

      Reply
      1. popo

        I understand that it may be hard for you to follow how this whole court thing works, judging from your earlier comments. The trial hasn’t started. Don’t worry…the defense will have their chance to put the victim on trial. What has been entered so far is just to get an indictment…so hold your little horses. You cop worshipers will have your chance to orgasm over all of the defense tripe once the trial start. I just can’t wait. It will be terribly predictable. RI/John Doe/etc., will be beside themselves with righteous indignation.

        Reply
        1. Daniel KaFee

          I don’t think it will be righteous indignation. Everyone deserves their day in court, even you poopoo. It’s going be a slam dunk. And the defense is not the one who is going to be angry.

          Reply
          1. popo

            I haven’t murdered, molested or stolen from anyone, so I won’t be needing that day in Court. Oh and Daniel, very clever…poo poo. Another nuanced, intellecutal commment from a cop/cop apologist.

            Reply
            1. Daniel KaFee

              Don’t say never sucker…oh yes this blog is full of intellectual people. I am just coming down to your level.

              Reply
    3. Tuco Ramirez

      Another Lou Ponsi article! Now they have Doug Irving looking over his shoulder since the Register has new owners!
      Of course a Schizo living in the streets will have 92 incidents with the police. Ask any cop in Anaheim near disneyland. Mentally ill are a problem when they hang around! So in Fullerton, anyway, they found a way to solve the homeless Schizo problem. Kill them!!

      Reply
  8. Lifesaving Service

    SHIMON MENDEL :
    I think myself a life-long liberal; but flawed as it is, I’m voting yes on 32. My yes vote is simply a cry to level the playing field a bit in local politics. Back in old days in was the nasty Chamber of Commerce and real estate people who were the bad guys. It’s now the local employee unions who are looking for the whore who is or wants to be on the Council who will give them the best bang for their bucks.
    A situation that needs to change. Bushala has him agenda — that’s ok for now. He and his are having their day in the sun. Hopefully things will balance out in the longer run.

    I have to say Liberals and Libertarians have a whole lot in common, even in entertainment Hollywood being a Libertarian is curious but OK. (I am very Liberal and very Conservative and dont like to be ignorant)

    Liberalism has changed, many would say hijacked, European style socialism, 60s radicalism, Progressivism, Marxcist, Leninist, Union monsterism, are not the Liberals I grew up with. (Wikipedia has Liberals for Civil Rights and against Police Brutality).

    Reply
  9. Fullerton's Conscience

    Real Liberal has uncovered a dirty little secret about politics and dirty self-centered politicians.

    That truth is that no matter how much a politician tries to hide the truth by speaking with a forked tongue, all citizens can easily learn the truth about that person by closely following that person’s votes on council.

    Ms. Flory is a prime example of that hypocracy.

    She deserves noones votes except for those union members who live in Fullerton and only care about their paycheck but not the paychecks or broader well being of their neighbors.

    I attended the LW Voters Forum and she stated she was running to protect the city employees who she feels have been mistreated by the public.

    A candidate who is running to represent about 100 city servants who live in Fullerton vs. the 140,000 residents of the city.

    Are you kidding me Ms. Flory!

    Unfortunately, ladies and gentlemen it is not a joke. However, if you are foolish enough to vote her back into office, the joke will be on all the citizens of Fullerton!

    DON’T BE FOOLED!

    Reply
    1. Greg Diamond

      Not “mistreated by the public.” You guys are from the public but you are not “the public,” no matter how much you’d like to think otherwise. She thinks that they’re being mistreated by you and Tony’s purchased Council majority.

      Reply
  10. Rain

    Ms. Flory speaks of “…people who overpaid their water bills…”.

    No one “overpaid” but rather, all of us were ILLEGALLY OVERCHARGED-TAXED by our city government for a utility service which the “city” hardly even touches, except via paperwork to send out a bill.

    The entire enterprise was a fraud; a “tricky” government operation. ALL of the past and present and (aspiring to return) Lefty “Liberal” city council members perpetrate and participate in this type of TAKING of private property (that is, taxpayers’ money) by big government union thugs and other corrupt beneficiaries of such criminal actions.

    Ms. Flory’s comments are false. So of course the government union thugs finance her campaign.

    Reply
  11. Anonymous

    on August 18, 1998 Jan Flory voted to use Water Fund revenue to seismically retrofit the police station. Bankhead concurred with her that this was a good idea.

    Do you really want these sorts of policy makers on the dais again?!?!

    Reply
    1. truthseeker

      Are you kidding me? I guess she could never get her arms around what will happen to the water supply when the sewer pipes that run parallel to most water mains break and exchange contents in an earthquake. Give the people their refunds so they can acquire some good gravity filtration systems when it does. Sound policy would be to recommend every household invest in one when the checks go out.

      Reply
      1. peaches

        maybe they’ll have a shooting simulator; I used one of those at a conference – kneecapped two bad guys and got a third in the head; not bad for someone who only went shooting once 🙂

        The knee-capping was oddly poetic as I’m Irish…

        Reply
    1. SHIMON MENDEL

      who gives a crap! Pure PR move of no use to the public except to give a few families something to do on a Saturday. Go bowling or something!

      Reply
  12. Tuco Ramirez

    Yeah, I had the same experience. I had a girlfriend who really was fun, a secretary for the CIA. Well, she decided to take me home to see her parents and siblings and it was a huge funeral home. They lived upstairs. I liked her but that was IT!!! Bye, Bye!

    Reply
  13. James Gotreich

    Hmm.. do you realize our Fullerton Council is corrupt? Did you know Travis Kiger, Bruce Whitaker and Greg Sebourn got the vast majority of their money from one man? Let’s see.. one man potentially has vast influence if not full control of the Fullerton Council majority. Follow the money my friends. Note: I’m using the OP’s ideology, it’s corrupt! a conspiracy! a coverup!
    All that kind of bullshit, but seriously, look at who you’re supporting.

    Reply
    1. Fullerton Rudy

      All I can say is thank God for Tony B. Without him innocent people would still be getting beat up, prosecuted, and even killed by Fullerton cops. There would still be three blithering idiots on the City Council. We would still be getting charged an illegal 10% on our water.

      Reply
        1. Lifesaving Service

          As in sports teams, poor teams go downhill fast. Many of the good Officers left a long time ago, what type of Officer would want to join FPD now? It seems to be a hostile work environment, according to documented leaks. A pirate ship needs a new Captain to fair the seas well. (Dan and a ships Captain does usually own the ship)

          The public education system turned into a cesspool a long time ago!!!

          Reply
      1. truthseeker

        He has definitely made a big dent that will be very very difficult for the old guard to ever repair and consequently has yielded much benefit to this community’s safety and well being. Here’s to Fullerton’s Future.

        Reply
      2. The Fullertonista

        Exactly. You are less likely to be randomly beaten to a pulp by FPD officers on any given night of the week then you were 16 months ago. That is because of the hard work by activists supported by this blog, by our newly elected council, and by Tony. Flory, Fitzgerald, and Alvarez played NO ROLE remember. Travis was the investigator, Whitaker the conscience of the council, Rands was on the streets with us, Levinson spoke out repeatedly at city council.

        Reply
  14. Adan Ortega

    As a member of the Adhoc Committee on Water Rates I can attest that at our first meeting when our then-colleague on the Committee Greg Sebourn raised the question of the monthly skimming of 10% of water revenues to the general fund, we were told both by MFSG and city staff that those funds were “off the table.” Off the table as we considered a recommended 6% rate increase to fix our crumbling water system. The MFSG consultant also publicly warned me that I was opening “a can of worms” by persisting on the question. This was the genesis of the crisis of confidence that thus ensued in the city’s handling of collected revenue. Politics aside, reducing rates by 10% and refunding a portion of the revenues over-collected are good steps in recovering public confidence – it was the right thing to do under the circumstances. I can also attest that in our pre-election environment, now-Mayor Quirk Silva and now-Mayor Pro-tem Whitaker were our champions as we asked questions that made the old council majority and staff uncomfortable. Absent the now unlikely pair, the Adhoc Committee would have been gone long before the recall election. I hope we can resume the orderly and thoughtful work of the Adhoc Committee after the election when people of different political brands can come together for the sake of our city to help the council restore public confidence and our water system.

    Reply
    1. Get Real

      Dear Adan,
      Save your breath… this group is into destroying Fullerton not helping Fullerton. Have you ever seen one positive concrete idea on how to solve all the problems? NO! Just rants and name callind!

      Pity, so much opportunity… so little brains!

      Reply
      1. Adan Ortega

        Call me naive, but casting people in one group (while also calling them names) will only earn one being cast into another. Then follows the endless cycle of political payback. When it comes to water rates and correcting a clear misappropriation of funds that went unchecked for over a decade, we have an opportunity to correct a wrong. I hope we all can agree on that.

        Reply
        1. Fred Alcazar

          Hard to correct a wrong when so many people refuse to acknowledge the deliberate swindle.

          That 10% was stolen every year from 1997-2012. It was done cynically and intentionally. Should thieves be given a pass because they claim they can’t afford to make reparations?

          Reply
  15. anonyface

    that should have read *your hag Flory.

    Forgive me, all you pro- Greg Diamond lurkers that are reading this, for letting in a typo while insulting your hero.

    Reply
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