552 Replies to “Stop The Madness Now!”

    1. Pathetic, jealous, whining little schmuck.
      How many lives has he saved in his 50 years?
      I hope he never has a fire.

      So sick. So sad.

        1. Don’t foregt that since firefighters/paramedics work 24hrs on and 48 off, many of them have the time to work at second jobs and take home a second salary. The salary they get as a FF should not be higher than a parttime wage. They are supposed to be using that 48 off for R&R so that they are at their best when called to respond to an emergency, but instead they work at another job and sleep at the firehouse. They also get R days off which are extra personal/rest days on top of their taxing 3 days a week. Firefighters in large populated suburban areas that do not have many high rises have a very good deal and perhaps they deserved it at one time, but the Unions need to stop insisting on more and more. It gets to the point of greed, especially when so many govt workers and others are getting laid off now. The Union leaders do this in order to justify their own existence and to make it look like they are accomplishing something. But when they fail, it just creates animosity between management and labor and does no one any good. There are some FF who will also have an axe to grind and so are never satisfied.

          1. Firefighters get an extra day off per month so that the city does not have to pay them FLSA overtime — not as a favor to them…

        2. Being a Retired Cop I know that is the gimmick a lot of the Cops and Fireman play. If you get a Medical retirement in some States it is 100% Tax Free for life! A lot of them are also using the “STRESS” issue for a Medical issue. I was shot twice and I didn’t retire with a Medical Retirement. I now wish I had of Medically retired when I got shot at the age of 27! Think where I’d be today. I worked 34 years and by Body is SHOT and WORN out and I didn’t pull the MEDICAL retirement card! Some of these guys really know how to play the system. I heard of a Cop on the East coast that retired out because of a bad knee and he got 75% of his pay for Life. He then complained of the other knee hurting and they then re-calulated his retirement so he got 100% of his salary Tax Free and they paid for a full knee replacement. He now lives on a Golf Course in Florida and plays Golf and Tennis 4 to 5 times a week. He pays almost NO Income Taxes, Collects Social Security and works Part-time as a Consultant so he can have more deductions and write offs. His POOL was a write off as his Doctor prescribed it as a Physical Therapy item for his Knee. There are two things I’d have done different in life if I could do it all over again. (1) Retire with a Medical at 27 years old, then complain later of more complications & get more retirement (2) Married a beautiful filthy Rich bitch that had a home on the Gold Course with Tennis courts!
          (3) Partied more and screwed more women when I was younger (4) Realized early on that life isn’t a bowel of Cherries and you only pass through here once so you better do everything you want to do and do it many times a politicians and do it well! I am now the Senior Citizen Pillsbury Dough Boy (over weight, I quit smoking 25 years ago) with a bad attitude, partially Bald and I hate everyone equally as much! I do NOT discriminate, I dislike politicians and all elected officials and the Senate & Congress should have term limits with them having the same Medical plan that they have shoved up our asses! No special retirement plans for life and Stop giving away our Country! That’s my 25 cents worth! God Bless America and I hope that someone will be able to pull our heads out of our ass & get this Country back to the wonderful country it used to be!

          1. Joe, you are a real piece of shit. Does it make you feel good to sit behind a computer and blog about the same old bullshit. You are just a jealious hater who has no real clue what it means to be a firefighter. Remember, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. You have been tagged and identified my friend.

          2. George W. isn’t a cop, and knows nothing of the retirement system.100% tax free retirement… not found in this country. Shot twice? Didn’t you learn the first time?

      1. Hope he dosen’t have a fire, is that a wish or a threat. That is the problem with the world today, you don’t agree then you are wrong. Sometimes the truth hurts and we don’t like it.
        If your position is all firemen are hero’s then people that served in our military should all get the same type of retirement. I am sick of the hero thing! We all choose our jobs. A highrise Iron workers job is more dangerous than a firemans.

        1. First, most firefighters are former military members, so you are actually advocating taking retirement benefits away from military members who decided to continue their public service after their military commitment was finished. Second, I guess firefighters get better compensation than high iron workers because the iron workers risk their lives for the companies who employ them, while firefighters risk their lives to save yours…

          1. Hey Sean you must be a firefighter, you seem to have alot of time on your hands to write emails. I am not saying that the job of a firefighter is not dangerous at times. I am saying that there is a lot of time in between those dangerous times. You act like firefighters are nonstop saving lives and putting out fires. As for your compensation you feel you have comming, it is your compesation that is breaking the backs of many cities. Many cities that you work for that you don’t even live in many times. I believe in my city the number is 75% don’t live in the city.

        2. I know many firefighter – WIMPS, Wife Abusers and etc…I almost married one…Thank God I wised up after her abused me! Why don’t YOU put your money where your big fat pie hole is and join the military! Oh, no, too scary for you !!!!

        3. I know many firefighter – WIMPS, Wife Abusers and etc…I almost married one…Thank God I wised up after he abused me! Why don’t YOU put your money where your big fat pie hole is and join the military! Oh, no, too scary for you !!!!

      2. ” I hope he never has a fire” …….is that all you have you grifter ?

        I’m a tax accountant and my firm has prepared tax returns for dozens of retired fire ”fighters” over the years. there wasn’t one retiree making less than $90k and the captains or stations chiefs all were handed a minimum of $120k a year with COLA increases annually.

        And it is common knowledge that fire ”fighters” set many of the brush fires in the summer. 18 arson investigations out of 19 since 2010 in OC remain ”unsolved”. Hmmmmmm…. coincidence ?

        As Lenin said ” Look to who benefits from the act or crime and you will have your culprit” More fires, more overtime and shouts of ” HERO’S !!” and scared public officials increasing fire budgets. Scam and scam and scam.

        Hero’s my ass. They are larcenists and grifters.

        1. Jon,

          Thanks for your input. Part of the problem is that ff’s being insulated from reality, actually think that since you are a tax accountant you must make over 300K a year. Don’t worry I know you probably don’t, depending on the size of your firm. But even still that it is before all the pesky expenses that ff’s don’t pay, and that is on a really good year.

          We need to bring them all into reality. If only they would open their eyes.

        2. Hey Jon, if you have a fire, car accident, heart attack, go unconscious, siezure, overdose, child birth, child not breathing, severe bleeding, abdominal pain, chest pain, allergic reaction, amputation, a dislocation, panic attack, fall from a roof, run through a plate glass window, get shot, stabbed, burned, drowned, or get shampoo in your eyes, who are you going to call?? A TAX ACCOUNTANT!!

          1. John, fire fighters aren’t the only folks who take red cross life saving courses. Wake up – when there is a job opening for a fire fighter, there are over 300 applicants, sometimes thousands. It is winning the lottery. And too many of us are paying for you.

        3. Fremont CA – Headline – all local property taxes go to fire and police
          That’s right, NOTHING to schools, roads, parks, lights, etc.

          I know a cop personally on that force that brags about how they greased a guy’s bicycle seat with shoe-polish so they have their fun. That was after pissing in his saddle-bag.

          So sad. These “heros” are nothing but doughnut-eating, pension-fetchers as far as I’m concerned.

          Losers with a badge. Then they are out on the curb with their boots to collect for “Jerry’s kids” – yeah, right – you gotta know that money is going to their own kids.

          Makes you kinda hate these guys, huh?

          Too bad – I used to think they were the good guys – now – just your everyday union thugs – no time to show up for burglar alarms and such – too busy finding ways to “injure” themselves for that extra moola.

          Have a good life in Hell you coppers and fire-fighting “heroes”

      3. Every fucking person who responded negatively to this should be fucking shot. Did we forget about the 343 fireman who were murdered in 911 trying to save peoples lives. Being a fireman is dangerous and exhausting. They work 24 hour shifts. That means 1 day for them is equal to 3 day’s of the average person sitting on their fat ass behind a desk. Time magazine posted that being a fireman is the most dangerous job in the world, next to a soldier in Iraq. The next time you want to bash a fireman because you didn’t have the balls or ability to actually become one, you should go say it to a firmans face instead of posting it on a computer like the little bitch that you are. You should all be ashamed of yourselves!

        1. I just had dinner with a fireman tonight. We talked about the very things on this blog. No question some firefighters and other safety are putting themselves in harms way–occasionally. The problem is what they are being paid for the jobs they do and how to properly calibrate benefits they are receiving. Question: when there is a opening for a firefighter’s position in LAC/OC, whey will the line of applicants for the job go around the block? Guys: the public is catching on. The hero stuff is wearing thin. Too many in safety now game the system and are overpaid and over pampered. Its true and all the profanity in the world will not change it (nor the threats). Changes are a commin’. You should get ahead of the curve and address the problem, rather than resist it and get buried in the onslaught.

        2. Hey lardass,
          Yeah, they are out there 24 hours a day fighting fires? I think not. How about 12 hours sleeping, 4 hours polishing their firetrucks and begging for money with their boots at intersections, and the other 8 “shooting hoops”?

          As for the 343 that died, that IS truly sad. But please remember that 10 TIMES THAT MANY non-firemen/women died in that tradgedy – you know, the lardass worthless taxpayers that were sitting at their desk.

          We should all stop defending these union pension-fetchers. If they were all that brave and concerned, they would be doing it for normal wages or free. Think that will happen? No F’ing way.

        3. It is no great feat to pass a few civil service exams and do a couple of pull ups. Really, please get over yourself.

        4. wow, that makes you like a TERROIST. I am saying it to you face. How tough can it be if women do the same job? Tell me about you day, cook breakfast, clean up a little, go get coffee, workout, lunch, nap,movie, get dinner ready. Oh there is no mention of saving someones life. If you worked like you think you do, well…Shit you want to see a fat ass, you should come to our department, we got all kinds. Were fireman the only people killed that day? I could go on. One of the reasons, this is brought to light(pension issue), because you firefighters run your mouths, you tell everybody everything. The people voted for these pensions, they can take them away.


      4. WOW!!! You guys get 90% when you max out? Unreal!!!!! In Chicago the max is 75% at 29 and a day. No OT is pensionable. Only our salaries are pensionable. That is amazingly much money for a retiree!!! Of course, your cost of living is outrageous out there. Lucky you!!!!! This piece of dreck “film” is such a distortion of the facts of the job. It’s not a normal night’s sleep that one gets in the firehouse, especially if you’re in a busy house!!! The person who made this video has no real knowledge of the job and its hazards and its stress on the body and the mind. I wonder how well this whiner would do in a fatal fire taking out children’s bodies which were hidden in closets and under beds. How would he handle watching one of his co-workers disappear as the floor caved under him and he is tossed into the inferno on the floor below? Think he’d be back at the fire house the next work day? Not a snowball’s chance in Hades!!!!! The wuss probably can’t even lift the piss can let alone control the pipe!!!!! JERK!!!!! Try opening a hydrant. Carry a donut of hose up fifteen flights of stairs in the projects.

        1. katyhuuny, I’m an out of work roofer that worked in Vegas for the last 15 years, try roofing in the loong… vegas summers (112-117 degrees) it’s just like an inferno in fact I had a friend who was a roofer before he died on a roof from heat exhaustion. We are Hero’s and deserve to have the city go broke so we can retire with 90% pay at 50. I don’t give a damn if the library closes on Sundays, I deserve too! Hell I’ll even take 75% at 30 any day.

        2. TRUE STORY…I once was called by my buddy to come down to the firehouse in downtown Los Angeles to install a complete stereo system in the captains truck. I worked on it for almost five hours as both the captain came out to check on the progress as well as my buddy every 30 min. or so. In that five hours my buddy had to leave TWICE! He was back from both within 30 min. and both were cat in the tree type BS phone calls. Near the end of my work I was invited into the house to have dinner with the guys as well as cake. You see they switch off every week cooking for each other so they have even extra time to “F” off.

      5. How about some rational thought here. I very much respect the fact that a fireman put himself in danger and am fine with the fact that they receive 120k a year to do so.
        BUT, having a pension of 90% of that amount is wrong, wrong wrong, unless we all have this. the problem is the unions and govt own the show and will continue to pay themselves what they want. Needs to stop or at least be modified and made fair

      6. As for:”I hope he never has a fire”.
        Never heard of the fire department save anything but a Foundation and the neighbor house. We won’t even go into control burns.

    2. It’s the pension that is is the real problem. Someone who retires at 50 and lives to 90 (with cost of living raises and all) is a liability the taxpayers simply cannot afford. The retirement age should be at least 60, the entitlement should be cut to 1.5% per year of service, and they should all be required to contribute to Social Security like everyone else. That’s still a way better deal than your going to get any where else. But, the most important point in my mind, is that all these benefits were handed to the unions by the politicians who were elected by the taxpayers. Reform has to start with the legislature. Get out and vote these schmucks out of office.

      1. Blaming politicians is popular sport, but misses the point. If politicians don’t do what the unions say, they are destroyed. Blame belongs with the unions who have muscled in, under the radar, and taken over our government. They are indeed extortionists and thugs, and even liberals are waking up to their crimes. Outlaw public sector unions. People with badges should choose – your badge or your union membership card. One or the other. To wear a badge and belong to a union is a betrayal of their oath, at the least.

      2. Public sector employees should only receive retirement for the same number of years they worked. Heck, in my town, the taxpayer pays BOTH halves of the city staff’s retirement and FICA! Unbelievable! In the private sector, a union employee’s retirement is based on how well the investments for the union are doing. Those have gone down for UFCW members, and consequently the month disbursals are at risk. But in the public sector, if the investments do badly, well heck, the taxpayer picks up the difference! I actually had a public sector pensioner threaten me by saying they deserved their 3-4% increase, by god, and would be demanding their due. She didn’t give a fig that private sector employees, many of whom make substantially less than counterparts in the public sector, would have less health & safety protections so that SHE could get her full pension amount. After all, she has designer rose bushes to buy! And everyone knows how the politicians threaten us with loss of the essentials the minute budgets aren’t met. Vote all the incumbents out of office. A whole new batch couldn’t do worse.

        1. ToLaurie K: You go girl Unions are now one the worst groups going. The reason they were started years ago was dif than it is now. Their time has come and gone. They are not good for public sector jobs that already pay well as the whiny schmuck said and tax payers can’t afford them.

          1. Yeah, who needs unions anymore… Private sector union membership has continued to drop over the past 30 years. The fact that worker productivity and corporate profits have soared, as real wages for middle-class workers has actually fallen, is surely just a coincidence…

        2. The politicians are to blame period! We vote them into office to watch our backs not the backs of the unions. You expect the unions to ask for everything they can get, you don’t expect the idiots representing us to give it to them. That is the problem with this whole mess, nobody gives a rats ass untill the money runs out.

      3. This whole blog is full of a bunch of jealous pussies!!! The fire dept exam is open to anyone but more than 3/4 of you probably couldn’t pass the physical exam. My cousin is a firefighter and he works his ass off for the taxpayer 24hrs a day when all of you whiners are sleeping. Get a clue before you make your jealous, outrageuos comments and learn to appreciate the guys that are willing to put it on the line for YOU the tax payer every day!!! Quit complaining and TRY and pass a FF exam.

        1. Again, the we are above everyone attitude. If women can pass the test, come on.He may show up for 24 hrs., but work 24 straight hours, you make me laugh. Maybe you should get a clue. Oh by the way I passed a test, before it was altered for the chosen few.

    3. I hope all the OCFA Fireman enjoyed their 6% raise this year when everyone else took pay cuts. What a job. Big Fire Big Hose, Little Fire Little Hose. See you all at the grocery store.

      1. Hey Jay, see comment #12. I can spot you whining want-to-be’s a mile away. You either didn’t get in line or did and didn’t pass the test or academy!

    4. Every fucking person who responded negatively to this should be fucking shot. Did we forget about the 343 fireman who were murdered in 911 trying to save peoples lives. Being a fireman is dangerous and exhausting. They work 24 hour shifts. That means 1 day for them is equal to 3 day’s of the average person sitting on their fat ass behind a desk. Time magazine posted that being a fireman is the most dangerous job in the world, next to a soldier in Iraq. The next time you want to bash a fireman because you didn’t have the balls or ability to actually become one, you should go say it to a firmans face instead of posting it on a computer like the little bitch that you are. You should all be ashamed of yourselves!

    5. Alot of very sad comments by you people and a very disgraceful biased video of lies. First, you choose your career and knew of its upsides and downsides, don’t make comments out of jealousy. You became a accountant or a roofer because that was what you felt was your best shot at making a decent living whether it was by choice or desperation, thats what you prepared for. If you wanted to be a firefighter you could have tried and if you were fairly intelligent and physically able, you would have been able to be one. If you are angry with the salary or the benefits, hate the government agency that approved it, not the firefighter, he didn’t “name his own price”…. With all civil service, the government has to pay a salary based upon worst case scenario. So even if you feel being an FF is an easy job in your area, that FF may have to enter a burning building knowing he may die to try and save your life, perhaps your. The must train and be prepared at any moment to enter that worst case scenario, thats what they get paid for… same for a Police Officer, EMS worker, Sanitaton worker. You don’t add up figures or put shingles on a roof knowing that you might die. No disrespect to other occupations, but beong a Firefighter, Police Officer, EMS, Saniation, Correction Officer takes MAJOR BALLS and not everyone can do that… as for the stupid comment equating the 9/11 victims to the rescuers, The victims did not go to their office jobs that day in the face of danger, they were innocent victims. The FDNY, NYPD, PAPD, and others entered those burning towers fully knowing that they were most likely not coming out alive, trying to save as many of the people as they could. All deaths were tragic and senseless but the emergency workers stand above, not to mention the after the fact rescue efforts that have led to numerous painful deaths. That said, I understand that California is on the verge of bankruptcy. As hard to belive as that is with all the riches in that state, I doubt it is the fault of civil service. how much does California pay out to social services? It is the responsibility of the government to live within its means (tax base) and they should make sure that the civil service salaries and benefits stay within those lines and hopefully they keep those salaries and benefits attractive enough to interest dedicated men and women.

      1. wow major balls. what about the women that try and do the job. where do they keep their balls I am glad to be retired, it gets old listening to the whinning and crying.

        1. Those women certainly have bigger balls than the critics on this board. That much is obvious.

          The only whining going on here is that by the critics of those professions.

          I’ve yet to read any whiny comments by the individuals claiming to be firefighters or police officers.

  1. This is by far the absolute funniest fu*$ing post I have ever read (watched) on this blog! Considering that this is the best written and funniest political blog out there that’s saying something.

    Now for the sad part. It’s all true.

    This thing has to be shared with the world. It’s just too good for keeping only on FFFF

  2. The encore should be a cop but only if the character can be made to look fatter and out of shape. If not, he just wont look like any of the police union leaders in Fullerton and local viewers will be confused.

  3. Thank you much for you support. I just threw that script together real quick after discovering the this amazing animation tool. I wanted to keep people’s attention and put this in perspective for those who may not be aware of what has happened in this state and the vast inequity between the private and public sectors.

    I used to respect fire fighters, but the amount of greed that their union’s have perpetrated on the tax paying citizens of this state is reprehensible.

  4. What the f— do u all expect. Keep voting democrat and see where u all wind up…in the poor house while ur union “GUMBAS” live the life!!!!

  5. So exactly what amount of money is a reasonable salary for running into burning buildings, climbing around on icy pitched roofs, approaching possible shootings, stabbings or hazardous material spills, kneeling in a pool of a stranger’s blood, straining to help carry a 400lb patient down a few flights of stairs, and significantly raising one’s chances of contracting cancer, heart disease, emphysema, hepatitis, etc?

    1. On the job firefighter mortality rates are a bit more than half the rate of construction laborers or truck drivers.

      And let’s not even discuss the risks for cab drivers and convenience store clerks.

      As for retirement – in this day and age (improved equipment, far fewer fires, better procedures), ff’s live as long or longer than the general public.

      1. Sounds like alot of jealous, uneducated people. FF’s making over 100,000 a year are working alot of extra overtime (24hr shifts away from their families), alot of Holidays too. The extra pay FF’s get is because of the very hazardous job it is. Yes, the equip. is better today but the getting up in the middle of night from a dead sleep takes a tremendous tole on the immune system. This is whats killing FF’s today. CANCER!!!! They deserve the pay and retirement. Everyone complains until they need 911.

      1. I’ve actually bothered to look into this fact. Like all the other idiots on this board you put up a fact that on its surface sounds full of platitudes.

        Yes, 72% of the nations cities are protected by volunteers. The flip side to that is that most of those cities have populations less than 2,500. And…..the real kicker for you. 80% of the nation’s population is protected by professionals. Until dirt has the ability to call 911 this statistic is pretty meaningless.

        1. Don’t get me wrong. I want paid urban firefighters — not (just) volunteers. The point is that we don’t need to pay so much for ff work than many volunteers do for free. If the work were so horrible, no one would volunteer. Obviously, many do.

          People get satisfaction out of being a firefighter for a number of reasons — most of them good reasons. It’s the most respected occupation in America. Everyone loves a firefighter. So to pay a boodle on top of that “psychic income” is unnecessary.

          1. Fair enough. I have more faith that finances will dictate compensation.

            Something the idiots on this board don’t take into account.

            All they do is bash public servants. More than likely because their lives are so miserable.

    2. Fact: 85% of the calls the fire dept personell respond to are usually medical not fire. If you don’t like your job and think of it as too dangerous, then quit. Your hero and other come backs overshadow your greed and selfishness to take a pay cut. There are so many more jobs that are more dangerous and who get paid half of what fire and police do and I don’t see them whining or playing the hero card.

    3. I don’t think they become firefighters for the money, if so let them all lose their jobs and get folks in there who want to make a difference and save lives. Hell, that is what our military men and women do, and some of them are fire fighters, they are not in it for the money.

    4. sounds like my typical day installing granite kitchens asshole. when I do a firefighters house i try to bang his wife and give him shitty seams. I’m very successful and make $25.00 and hour with no benefits or health care other than all the fireman milf ass I can tag.

    5. It was your choice for a job not anyone else’s. Again you act like this is a daily situation. How offten do you really have to run into a burning building, etc. And be honest !

    6. The most dangerous job in the USA if being a fucking night clerk at a 7-11…and these poor schmucks (sorry, HEROS) don’t get paid shit!

    1. There’s nothing stopping them from getting the job and giving part of their pay back to the city every payday.

      You know, putting their money (no pun intended) where their mouth’s are.

      1. That’s not a pun and of course you have demonstrated the worst illiterate offense of all: misusing the possessive apostrophe.

  6. High overtime hours usually reflects a city’s decision not to hire enough firefighters to staff all the existing positions. It’s always cheaper to pay an existing firefighter for an extra day than to hire a new firefighter and pay a new set of benefits too. So you can have more firefighters and less overtime, or less firefighters and more overtime, but you can’t have both and still comply with national standards for minimum staffing.

    1. And all of that is because firefighters are way too expensive in the first place. Cut their ridiculous pay and you can have more coverage.

  7. Do you know what the average starting salary is as a firefighter in most cities in Orange County. Around 48,000. How many of you can raise a family on that. “Half of the other country has volunteers”, yeah in a city with a population of about 300 and about 2 square miles. That is the rest of the country, not Fullerton which is 23 square miles and has a population of roughly 140,000. Hey OLIVER STONE, those unions are what protect firefighters from getting screwed over from people like you, call up your local firehouse, go on a ride along with them, see what they do daily and how much effort they put into there duties. Or just give them your number, I’m sure they’ll gladly call you 4-5 times a night every time they get up to help a citizen in their time of need.

    1. Okay, let’s say it is $48,000. That would be for a 20 year old with a high school diploma? Sounds pretty excellent to me. Start adding the obligatory O/T, annual increases, yadda yadda, and pretty soon you’ve got a second house at the river, boats, trucks, toys, a second income doing something else and you’re over $100K.

      Go cry somewhere else. In fact go screw yourself HERO and stop screwing us.

      1. So quick tempered Joe. Its funny that you think firefighters are “Out to screw You” like its some personal vendetta. What is so wrong in your life Joe that you have such hatred for those who are sworn to protect you. I mean really this little website is cute and all but its just as much a joke as you are. People like you make these websites in hopes that you can really get people to believe in what you think is right. Maybe you’ll get a few people on board but out of the 300 million people in this country do you think you’re really making a difference. Save poor little old Fullerton, yeah because that will make a difference in these times. Fullerton is just a crumb in the big crap sandwhich that everybody is taking a bite out of. And no Joe I’m not a firefighter, I like coming home to my family every night and spending the holidays with them and I don’t do blood, its not my thing

    2. The pay quoted by anonymous (remember, ff’s are BRAVE — but anonymous) is for probationary ff’s. Almost all move to full-fledged ff’s within two years. Then we are in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s of thousands of pay — plus overtime, step rate increases, special pay, etc. etc. etc.

      Moreover, whatever makes you think you are supposed to raise a family on ONE income???? Most California families have multiple incomes. Spouses both work. Yet our aristocratic ff’s think the little (presumably) woman should remain at home and bake cookies.

      In addition, with all your free time, as a ff you doubtless have a second job. Almost all ff’s do. Otherwise you’d die from boredom at a young age.

      1. Much of the overtime is dictated by Federal Fair Labor Standards Act specifically for Public Safety Employees (Fire & Police) dealing with all their ‘special pays’ and unusual shifts – all driven by unions. Police eat up 80% of all city overtime and firefighters nearly all have secondary jobs and incomes due to their sweet on/off work schedules – so compare total compensation , not just base pay. Of course they all train and apsire for the additional special pays for these added skills and/or higher ranks, which all drive up their final retirement take. Few if any, retire after 20 years and don’t double dip with another job – the early retirement for public safety is designed so we are not protected by fat asses who can’t carry the load. Also note that firefighters have the highest rate of workers comp claims – most from injuries suffered not from the job, but their “fitness’ programs, i.e., basketball, weightlifting, tennis… They get the pay and benefits becasue they are highly organized and supportive of public officials during elections… and don’t even suggest otherwise.

    3. Anonymous, why aren’t you mouthy enough to give your name? you are good at justifying what Fullerton’s firemen make, and you react only to the parts of other’s conversations that fit your dialog. My town is pop 4000. My county is pop 35k. Nearly every single city ff here is volunteer. We had to pass a measure to get ANY paid firemen, and that started only this past July. Nobody begrudges a decent wage for a job done, but the bottom line is that the PENSION thing has got to go. Sorry that you do not agree that ‘the neighborhood’ should NOT be responsible to pay for your retirement after PAYING YOU TO DO THE GODDAM JOB IN THE FIRST PLACE. 2 Days a week? Must be nice. YOU are the whiner. Unions started out as a cause. Then they became a job. Now they are just a racket.

      1. I am a nyc fireman and have never heard of more bs in my life. When I started I brought home $675 every two weeks. Married with two kids. It takes five years to get to top pay and is not anywhere near a hundred grand. If your lucky to get overtime and a tremendous amount of it you might hit a hundred if your lucky. NYC is the busiest fire department in the country by far and we get screwed by the city on a daily basis. Not all fireman are like these idiots who think of what they deserve. In fact most that I work with are pretty humble. Most of you here are painting portraits of all fireman as pieces of garbage and none of you have any clue what so ever what are job really is about. Or the toll it takes on our wives and children. I’m not complaining because I love what I do and if I could live in NY on less I would. As far as having volunteers doing our job, that is by far the biggest farce that I’ve ever heard. Picture the most out of shape no it all who as all the best of the best. Where I live volunteers have ten times better and newer equipment than we do. Which is never used and which puts your taxes through the roof. If I sleep through the night once in a year its a godsend. A hundred and twenty grand a year though where do I sign up.

        1. You are lying.

          And quit the NYPD BS. Although I am willing to admit you are doing a helluva a lot more work than our local slugs who do almost nothing, I’m sick of the not so veiled references to 9/11.

          NYPD did nothing more than block the stairwells and keep people from getting out of the Twin Towers. You cost a lot more lives than you saved.

          There. I said it..

          1. Idiot i am a fireman not a cop and brought nothing up about 9-11. Which you have no f-ing clue what it was like pulling a brother out that was literally cut in half. Who has young children who will never know there father. I dont believe i deserve anything. This is the job I chose and many people lost thier lives. More civilians that emergency personal. Look up videos you moron fireman are going up the stairs as people are going out. Its people like you that belittle and forget about what happened that day. I work over a hundred hrs a week because i have to to support my family. There are no lies in anything said. Enjoy your sheltered life out in your well kept suburb. I invite you to attempt or say any of your bs about 9-11 in any borough of the city. You have no clue

          2. Hey Brent. Could you post your sources for your claims. Everything I’ve read states the FDNY saved the majority (90%) of the folks below the impact zones.

            I would like to read (from a credible source, not a conspiracy theory blog like this one) something that proves your claims.

    4. There are quite a few towns in Connecticut with populations over 300 that have volunteer fire departments. In fact there are a few with populations of about 80,000 that have mixed paid/volunteer (with the majority being volunteer) in that state. And as far as the population argument is concerned; break cities down to neighborhoods.

      Besides, the fire departments should be privatized.

  8. Whats wrong with you ignorant punks? Its amazing how easy it is for you to discredit the fire service until you dial 911 and then they become your best friend and HERO for life. Stop sitting around your parents home smoking dope and get into the real world!

    1. Here we go with the hero thing again. You guys (firemen) are trying hard to defend the indefensible. Not just the pensions…the pay and medical benefits too…are totally outrageous and have been obtained via years of threats and coersion against our spineless politicians (who voters stupidly vote out based on their public safety union endorsements). If you compared the training, education level, danger, etc of a firefigher’s job to other lines of work, there is absolutely no justification whatsoever for this nonsense. And no, most of us are not sitting around our parent’s home smoking dope. We are the hardworking private sector employees who PAY ALL YOUR GODDAMN SALARIES AND BENES! And that is why we’re pissed off.

      1. I gladly pay my taxes for police and fire protection. They are two of the few things I believe I pay for that give me my money’s worth.

        I consider that being a responsible citizen. Same as the fact that I pay my taxes that support the school system even though both my kids are out of school.

        I’m sorry to hear you don’t appreciate living in a country such as ours that provides a high quality of life with lesser taxation than just about any developed nation.

        You should travel abroad. It would give you a whole different perspective.

        1. GOD BLESS the New York Fireman, thank you for your service, sorry for your loss on 911. And Yes FDNY saved many lives that day and so did the port authority. And to all the whinning tax payers, how about all your tax dollars going to the illegal aliens and social programs in this state. This is whats bankrupting the state not the FF pensions. WAKE UP!!!!

      2. Where I come from, our pension request were voted on by the people. Also, the city pays into the pension. It does not pay the pension. Hell when we started, we had no medical.

    2. If you guys were privatized you would still make a decent salary considering the risks involved and the fact that not all of the population can hack it as firefighters. No one is dissing fire fighters, it’s the unsustainable pension system paid for by taxpayers.

  9. its really, really, and i mean really rare i agree with joe, but hes dead on with this one, firemen and police make way too much money, your not heros, your professions arnt even the most dangerous, nothin entitles you to bankrupting our county and state. your simply doing a job, and especially for firemen, cmon you have the plushest job on the planet

    1. I’m a police officer in Chicago. In the past 18 months, we buried three police officers. Another police officer was murdered the year before. Another was in an accident, and the animals yanked his unconcious body out of the squad. He is a quadriplegic. Two more were in an accident, one hurt seriously the other dazed, the animals reached in took their guns.
      We may not be heroes, but we go out and do a job that the majority wouldn’t and couldn’t. Both jobs are inherently dangerous. To say otherwise shows ignorance.

      1. Chicago is not within our sphere of influence.

        The last Fullerton cop to die on the job was Tommy De la Rosa who was killed in a drug operation – in another city. That happened over twenty years ago.

      2. I appreciate the work both firefighters and police do – many I count as personal friends (police and fire chiefs included). I also don;t feel that most pay is out of line. But when it comes to pensions – that is something that has gone awry in many communities – too much comp. Is it dangerous, sure – but last I saw every one of these people chose to apply for these jobs and careers.

        1. I view their pensions like military personnel. They retire with 50% @ 20 years or 75% @ 30 years regardless of age.

          I don’t want 60 year old cops and firefighters working a job that has potentially physically demanding.

      3. Again, the job is not the most dangerous and no one forced them to choose that career. Regardless, since citizens in Chicago can’t own handguns, they’re at the mercy of the criminals. No matter how many cops are hired, the response time will never match an armed citizen. More guns=less crime.

        1. So you would be happier if there were more crime in Fullerton so the salaries you believe are too high would be justified?

          Great logic.

    2. You probably don’t think twice (if you think at all) about spending $200 to watch a professional athlete make $5 million a year to play a GAME!!

      1. You are, no probably, too stupid to realize the difference between voluntarily paying that money(which is ridiculous) and having to pay money through taxes.

    3. You probably don’t think twice (if you think at all) about spending $200 to watch a professional athlete make $5 million a year to play a GAME!!

  10. I’m glad that Americans have gotten tired of pretending that they hold firefighters in high esteem – like Dubya using FDNY firefighters as props for his “go shopping” speech after 9/11. Now we’re back to the usual state where folks consider us glorified trash collectors – right up until they have crushing chest pain at their desk, or wake up in a smoke-filled bedroom. I always prefer to be stabbed in the chest to being stabbed in the back.

    1. Oh Brother! Fire fighters as props for W!

      You’ve got a lot of nerve bringing up 9/11. You barnacles have been raping that tragedy for a decade to increase your juice. Shame on you.

      1. You gotta admit he’s correct. W did use firefighters for props after 9/11.

        W also used the military for props as well. Remember the landing on the USS Lincoln in his costume with the “Mission Accomplished” sign? Even though over 95% of the casuualties in that conflict took place after that event.

    2. This is exactly what everyone is talking about! You cry about feeding yourself, having to pay for the TV that you watch while you are working. WTF dude, you really feel you should not have to pay for these things. You really make us all laugh. The world owes all you HERO’S (firefighters) the world don’t we. If we don’t agree with you we are stabbing you in the back. We all appreciate what you do but at the same time we can not afford to pay the retirement that you guys want, that is just a reality.
      Maybe this will make since to you, if we pay what you feel you have coming for retirement we will not be able to hire new firefighters to save your old and broken down ass once you are retired !

  11. Firefighters don’t pretend to be Heros, the public makes them out to be. They just do their jobs. If you people complain about them so much why don’t you switch careers. Plenty of people do. Go through the whole process 2 years worth of college a 4 month academy, in which you go almost broke because you are unable to work. Then take fire dept tests all around the state and even other states for the next 2-3 years while working a mediocre ambulance job that pays 8.75 an hour. Once you’ve passed a test or two you might get an interview and then get lucky enough to pass and go onto the next step. Its usually a physical agility test and then on to another interview, pass that you get to take a polygraph test and then a psych/IQ test for 8 hours. Once you’ve passed all of that you get to go through another academy and then one year worth of probation. During which you take numerous tests and written exams and could be FIRED for failing any of them. All of this so the citizens of a community know they are getting the best most qualified firefighter.

    1. Oh Jesus H. Christ, let’s break out the violins.

      Actually, with all those guys sitting around all day I’ve been wondering why we haven’t been inundated with their blogging.

      BTW, people with two years of college know that it’s spelled “heroes.”

      1. “BTW, people with two years of college know that it’s spelled “heroes.” ”

        People with four years of college don’t know how to spell potato.

        Like Dan Quayle, Vice President of the United States.

    2. Because there are literally hundreds of wannabee ff job seekers for every ff opening, the ff’s have made the application and screening process unnecessarily stringent and complicated. Otherwise they’d have WAY too many applicants, which would further demonstrate the imbalance in supply and demand — a closely guarded secret.

      In San Diego, we require an applicant to complete the EMT1 course BEFORE applying — a desperate tactic to reduce the number of applicants. Then when apps are accepted by the city, it is done quietly, without fanfare, over the Christmas holiday season — again to keep down the number of applicants. The rest of the year one cannot apply.

      1. So what? My son was accepted into the USMA. He was one of about 1200 selected out of about 13,000 applicants. Do you think the chose the top 1200 or the bottom 1200.

        They all qualified to do the job.

        There are people who would pay to have their children attend that institution.

        Your analogy is not a good one. Even stupid at a certain level.

        Your city is one of the worst in terms of its fire protection. You burned down half of it during the Cedar Fire and haven’t done squat to remedy any of those issues that allowed it to happen.

        1. Sorry, friend. It’s you union goons who are most responsible for our lack of efforts to imporove San Diego firefighting. It’s YOU and your union threaten my home — hamstringing reform efforts.

          Because most of our courageous ffs live out of the city of San Diego (many out of the COUNTY), it took hours for these off-duty heroes to cruise into work and man the trucks sitting ready and waiting. It’s an unreported scandal. We could have had trained volunteers man those extra trucks, but the unions would rather the city burned down.

          I live in Scripps Ranch. In 2003 we lost about 330 homes within a mile of my house. That did NOT have to happen. Afterwords I tried to volunteer as a reserve ff, but the ff unions adamantly oppose such an organization. They’d rather our homes burn down.

          And don’t talk to me about CERT — its a sadly useless outfit that is prohibited from putting out any fire larger than a trash can. In the 2007 fire only two of our 70 local CERT volunteers were even called up — and all they were allowed to do was pass out coffee and donuts at a neighboring refugee center. The CERT organization in Scripps Ranch has since all but disbanded.

        2. I do understand you don’t like the analogy — comparing our Barco-Lounger ff’s with our military. It destroys your argument for high pay and benefits.

          Clearly the military is paying enough to get people to REALLY risk their lives on a day to day basis. And they pay a LOT less than ff’s get for a FAR more dangerous, arduous occupation.

      2. Dick Rider, you found your way to Fullerton Fire….I’m not surprised. Isn’t trashing the SDFD enough for you? Sounds like you’ve teamed up with your pal Carl Demaio in bringing down local public safety. I work for the SDFD…I was hired in October, just in time for Halloween. The only other time applicants are hired is in the spring. Get your facts straight before you start spouting your irrelevant dribble.

        1. You goons trashed yourselves with your ever-increasing extortionist demands to compliant city councils. When we turn on the spotlight you cry “trash.”

          “Bringing down local public safety.” What a laugh. You clowns did that by bankrupting your municipalities.

          Oh well. You are heroes and deserve.

  12. And P.S. since you hardly ever fight fires anymore I suggest we change the name from “firefighter” to something more accurate.

  13. No Joe I’m not a firefighter I’m actually a brother of one. He works for county, not Fullerton, but I do live in Fullerton. So there goes your theory. In all of your blasting you finally made a valid point. Firefighters shouldn’t be called firefighters anymore because, like you said they don’t go on that many fires. They go on heart attacks, diabetic problems, stoke victims, Traffic accidents, hazardous material calls, PUBLIC ASSISTS, shootings, stabbings, and any other thing that you can think of. Any little problem that the citizens of our city have, they show up and they do it with a smile on their face. They have been for over a 100 years. I’m sure if they showed up to your house, knowing who you are, they wouldn’t think twice about giving you the same treatment and respect.

    1. Maybe he can help you with your spelling.

      Two hazmat calls a year? And standing around at a few heart attacks and traffic accidents a week? Okay, useful. Doesn’t justify the gross shakedown. Sorry.

      1. Well, the fellow laying on the restaurant floor with the bullet hole in his chest seemed pretty happy to see us when we showed up at midnite last night. An occlusive dressing, two large-bore IV’s, 1500ml of normal saline and a quick ride to the trauma center later, he was getting a liter of blood drained from his chest and we were going back in service. We did get to sleep from 1:30am to 2:30am, and then from 3:30am to 4am, and then from 5am to 6:30am, so it was a pretty good Friday night on Med 6. I guess I should feel guilty that I’m making $24 per hour to do this work that any Tom, Dick and Harry would do just as well for fast-food wages…

          1. You so smugly say “Send him a bill,” and therein lies the problem.
            If a bill is sent, the county just lost the money for the bill and the stamp. You rail at the cost of fire and police protection. Why not rail at the users of said services who never pay a dime. Free food, medical, education, and cell phones all on the taxpayers dime. Now there’s a gig if you can get it.

        1. Well, if that’s what you’re making then why do you feel the need to defend it? Nobody’s complaining about any $24/hour firefighters.

          They’re complaining about the six-figure firefighters that are eligible for pensions at 50 years of age. They’re complaining about disability pensions that go to people who run marathons. They are complaining that our state, county and cities are in financial crisis, meanwhile our income and sales tax were raised last year – which amounts to taking money from people who make $60k / year to support their families to give it to people making $100k.

          To be honest, your list of accomplishments last night aren’t as impressive as you think they are. I was trained to do much of that as an army medic when I was 17. You don’t need a genius IQ to do that kind of work, “barely above average” usually suffices.

          1. Well, then, there’s the 50-year old fellow who developed chest pain while playing basketball. He was pale and diaphoretic when we arrived, and said he felt like he was going to die. We confirmed an acute MI with a 12-lead EKG, started an IV to raise his 90 systolic BP, began treating him with sublingual nitroglycerin (he had already taken a 325mg aspirin), and began carrying him down the stairs. As we descended, he told me his pain was reduced from 10/10 to 8/10, then he said “Oh, oh…” and slumped over with his eyes open. Checked for a pulse and found none, so we started CPR and hustled him into our rig. He was now in V-fib, so we put on the pads and shocked him at 200 joules. Continued CPR, gave our first round of Epinephrine, and prepared to give Amiodarone. Next rhythm check revealed a junctional rhythm, and then we found a pulse and obtained a BP. Quick ride to the local ER, and he was on his way to the cath lab before I even finished my report. But the best part was when he and his wife walked into the firehouse a few weeks later with a Thank You card. That seems to me a pretty good return on that fellow’s tax payment, and a bit more than “barely above average”. Or did you learn how to run a code when you were 18?

    2. In San Diego, the ff’s race the ambulance to the scene of each “medical emergency.” Whoever gets there first is the on-scene boss and care giver.

      The ambulances are provided by Rural America. The EMT’s manning these vehicles make maybe $13 an hour and have a very modest pension, and they go to all the harrowing emergencies described here by our intrepid ff’s (and their kin).

      So why again do we pay the raincoat guys so much???

      1. Dick? You again? When will you learn? We do not “race the ambulance” to scenes…we get there as quickly and safely as possible. Why? Because that’s OUR job. The fire captain is always the on-scene boss, unless a chief takes over. We’re all on-scene caregivers; the ambulance crew provides care during the ambulance transport to the hospital. Why? Because that’s THEIR job. Ambulances are provided to the city of San Diego by Rural Metro in a partnership called San Diego Medical Services Enterprise. I can’t remember the last time I saw an ambulance EMT performing roof ventilation at a working structure fire, or searching a smoky, fire-involved room for unaccounted occupants, or suiting up in full HazMat gear for an overturned fuel-tanker, or even performing basic fire inspections at local commercial occupancies. Why? Because that’s NOT THEIR JOB. C’mon Dick, you’re better than that. Right?

  14. What a scam, i dont know how any firefighter can make a straightface argument that they deserve their elevated pay, pension and everything else when there are numerous people in the free market who would do it for less. I dont blame you for taking what they pay you but dont try to BS and rationalize that you earned it. It was a union shakedown and quid pro quo with sell out polititians. You cant expect a high school GED firefighter to understand the value of their pension so they just BS about danger and other whiney crap. You deserve what the free market would pay and not a penny more.

  15. i BET there are alot of corpmen and returning war veterans who would love to do this dangerous lol job for half of what these union lackeys get.

  16. You’re right firewhiners there are a lot of veterans who would love to do it. In fact there are a lot of veterans who are firefighters. It’s funny how you people keep referring to firefighters as “Union Goons and lackeys” like they are teamsters or something. They developed a Union because before they didn’t make enough money to support their families and had to have a second job.

      1. Yep, because Jerry Brown signed the law that allows government workers to unionize. Now look at were all his campaign funding comes from. Convenient isn’t it. Tax dollars recycled right back to the politicians.

  17. Thats what they do Joe, stand around heart attacks. Strong point. Have you ever done anything remotely noble in your life? I bet you couldn’t stomach half of the things these guys deal with everyday. Why don’t you post some real statistics. Their call loads, types of calls, where they rank in the county. You people are the only ones that refer to firefighters as Heroes.

    1. We’re not talking about “nobility.” That’s just another way of saying “hero,” lame-brain. And it’s that kind of crap-talk that fooled people into selling the farm – our farm – so that they could get themselves elected.

      You make me sick. Maybe I should call a 911 and interrupt a basketball game.

  18. The funniest thing about the folks who complain about firefighters earning too much is they are the same folks fighting to lower the taxes of private-sector CEOs who earn tens of millions of dollars for running their companies into the ground. That’s why I can take their criticism with a HUGE grain of salt…

    1. Now you’re comparing yourself with a “private sector CEO?” First, it’s irrelevant. Second, your only responsibility is hauling your huge-ass boat to the River to that second house that we paid for.

        1. Well, if that test included questions on how to screw the rest of us and how to haul the giant taxpayer bought boat to the Colorado River, I probably couldn’t pass your “test.”

          Seriously, must be quite a test: including having a high school diploma and being able to carry a dummy down a couple of flights of stairs!

          1. Firefighters are screwing everyone else, eh? You sound like the crazy drug-seeking woman we took to the hospital last night, screaming about the abdominal pain she has each and every day, and that doctor after doctor can’t explain, and that only heavy-duty painkillers can help. She eventually started yelling about how “mean” I was when I told her that her thrashing around was going to pull out her IV, which it did. She probably thought I was screwing her too…

  19. I like how Joe twists and manipulates responses. You’re either a lawyer or a car salesman. Just a real piece of work. With the type of crap you print I don’t think you really believe in your cause. I mean you put a vulgar distasteful video up with falsified information. Who would really take you seriously? Nobody who really wanted to be taken seriously would put this fact-less video on their website.

    1. That video is priceless. It must have really hit a nerve. Every jackoff “firefighter” in a ten mile radius is stopping by.

    2. You haven’t read Sippy the kool-aid’s work before. It’s all twist and half-truths. Nobody takes this site serious except the few little followers.

  20. Sean :
    Firefighters are screwing everyone else, eh? You sound like the crazy drug-seeking woman we took to the hospital last night, screaming about the abdominal pain she has each and every day, and that doctor after doctor can’t explain, and that only heavy-duty painkillers can help. She eventually started yelling about how “mean” I was when I told her that her thrashing around was going to pull out her IV, which it did. She probably thought I was screwing her too…

    Send her a bill.

    1. We do every December. It’s called her tax bill. She gets a year’s worth of the county paramedic program for roughly $7, just like every county resident. [BTW, this isn’t your county — I’m a paramedic fire lieutenant in a large midwestern city — I just have trouble sitting idly by while folks whose opinions are untainted by first-hand knowledge call my brother firefighters “vulgar”, “distasteful”, “jackoffs”, “lackeys” and “barnacles”…]

      1. Sean – I never call firefighters vulgar, distasteful , jackoffs, laceys or barnacles and appreciate their work and professionalism. But overcompensated with pensions – YES. Is the work dangerous and require medical knowledge and physical fitness – sure. But I’ve never seen a firefighter recruitment without far more able body applicans than openings – the market should weigh in more on lifetime pension benefits. Failure to do so will just end up bankrupting cities and towns and ultimately failing the retired firefighters.

  21. We’re better than this Sean, thats why we do what we do. We don’t hold any prejudice, any judgment, any negativity toward the people we serve. We do it with a smile and hope we are making their time of need a little easier. We didn’t get into this profession for the money, if we cared about money we would have been doctors or lawyers. Hell I got offered a minor league contract out of high school, but I knew what I wanted to do and that was help people. Even out of high school I knew what I wanted to do, money wasn’t a factor. When it comes down to it, thats the reason we are here, helping others. And I’m sure they’ll twist this around too and make it like we are the bad guys. Thats what they do, they see the negative, they judge and they don’t think clearly. Maybe one day they’ll actually need our help and they will see things a little differently. Probably Not.

    1. I hear you, brother. I was a trial lawyer for 10 years before I made it onto the fire department. The writers on this thread might find this hard to believe, but private-sector lawyers actually make quite a bit more money than public-sector firefighters do. They can decide for themselves which group provides more social utility for the cost. Be safe.

  22. sean if indeed you were a trial lawyer, then you should certainly be able to understand that your pension is a ripoff to taxpayers, nobody in the private sector would get anything close to it unless they SAVED all the money themselves, that your union has a MONOPOLY on fire services which doesnt permit the taxpayers to hire the best firefighters for the lowest cost, instead we get collective barganing with polititians your union PAID to elect (conflict of interest??) . In short, you would apparently have the cognitive ability to understand the economics and finance of the issues YET you STILL try to say its all deserved/earned BS instead of just saying dont hate me bc thats what im paid you try to justify what cannot be justified when free market economics and taxpayers best interest are considered. You are the worst kind of firefighter smart enough to see the rip off yet you still try to BS that its earned/deserved.

  23. Actually, firewhiner, collective bargaining and pensions used to be much more common in private-sector employment. But, as bright guys like you have made the laws less and less protective of collective bargaining, union membership has fallen in the private sector. Along with it has fallen the portion of corporate revenues going to the middle-class workers who produced them, even as worker productivity and corporate revenues soared. In fact, the inflation-adjusted earnings for most middle-class Americans has barely budged over the past 30 years, and actually fell between 2000 and 2007. Middle-class Americans instead funded their slice of the American dream by running up their credit cards and treating their homes like equity piggy banks. This worked fine, as long as they remained employed to make those minimum credit cards payments, and as long as the value of their homes continued to rise. When people lost jobs and home values fell, this whole fake prosperity facade tumbled to the ground. So try to resist the urge to be a lobster in the boiling pot, pulling down any other lobsters who try to crawl out. The question isn’t why do public-sector employees still make a living wage. The question is why don’t private-sectors still make a living wage. We need to start using the law and economic policy to broaden REAL prosperity among Americans — not to continue to concentrate prosperity in the hands of only the richest Americans.

    1. I see you understand the problem, but refuse to really address it. If the private sector is making less money than they did 10 years ago, how can you justify that the public sector gets to make far more than they did 10 years ago. The private sector is what pays for the public. That is economics. I know you understand it, but you don’t want the gravy train to end.

  24. In defined benefit plans about 20 percent of the value of the plan derives from employer (taxpayer) contributios, 20 from employees, and 60 from market returns. I agree there are some departments in the US that are overpaid, and being a fireman is a sweet gig, but a contract is a contract. Reform them prospectively. Remember as hyper-conservatives you support the US constitution and part of it is the Contract Clause. Why not direct your irritation toward your brethren in the investment banking business?

    1. Amen. I don’t understand how some folks hold the contracts of CEOs and professional athletes to be sacred, while they consider the contracts of working Americans to be disposable. I also don’t understand how some folks say they favor the free market, but then oppose the free-market bargaining between management and worker over the fair value of the workers’ labor. I hate to be the one to break the news, but a system where management is free to dictate labor’s value and workers can either take it or leave may be many things, but it ain’t a free-market system.

      1. Sean :
        I hate to be the one to break the news, but a system where management is free to dictate labor’s value and workers can either take it or leave may be many things, but it ain’t a free-market system.

        Actually that is how exactly how the free market works.

        1. It’s an old adage in the law that a necessitous man is not truly a free man. This means that, when one side to a negotiation literally cannot afford NOT to accept the other side’s offer, the resulting contract does not necessarily establish the “fair market price” for the goods or services being exchanged.
          Applying this to the employment realm, if management can afford to tell any individual worker to accept a lower wage or leave, knowing that it can easily replace that worker with a more desperate one, then the resulting wage is not negotiated — it is simply dictated.
          If management must instead negotiate wages with all its workers collectively, and furthermore must negotiate in good faith — not just a sham negotiation for window-dressing — then the resulting wage is truly negotiated between willing parties, therefore a “fair market price” for the labor being performed.
          It was through these good faith negotiations that labor unions essentially built the American middle class.
          But now, as fewer American companies actually negotiate their wages, and more simply impose them, middle class earnings are no longer rising against inflation. If this continues long enough, the middle class will be a thing of the past.
          And the sad part is this is a particularly short-sighted victory for American companies. Henry Ford was smart enough to know that he had to pay his workers enough so they could afford to buy the cars they built. Once the middle class is gone, who will buy all the shiny new stuff that American companies make?

    2. Ever heard of fraud, conflict of interest, or bribery Yes all can of those are legal terms that can make a “contract” null and void.

      I don’t know how donating huge sums of money to the very people who you are negotiating with, does not at least fit one of those definitions.

      Public unions are an outrage and should be illegal. It is just that they have become a source for corrupt politician to recycle tax dollars into their campaigns.

      Sean, you appear to be an intelligent person and I know you understand this.

      1. You make a good point. That’s why I favor publicly-financed elections, and strict controls on both direct political contributions, and on independent political advertising which favors or opposes particular candidates. Anyone who is against that really can’t complain when their elected politicians work harder for the special interests who fund them than for the constituents who elect them…

  25. Wow, alot of talk on this issue.

    Basic way to determine what pay level ought to be for any position is to set minimum requirements and then see how much one has to pay to attract qualified candidates.

    All the fireman appologists will spin this in to the stratosphere but the truth is all cities in Southern California could pay alot less for fire personel and still attract far more candidates for every job than they could ever fill.

    I dont know of any other job that gets literally hundereds (or more) of qualified applicantsfor every opening.

    You characters can argue about this issue until next week but the truth is we pay fire staff more than we need to.

    Of course the way to prove this would just be a test case for any city in Orange County to go to private paramedic service. If the union thugs are so confident about their service delivery they wont mind the beta test at all right?

  26. Sure, try out private paramedic services — other cities have. The first contract you negotiate with Rural Metro should be pretty good, as they have to compete with the service you already have in place. Of course, by the time that first contract comes up for renewal, you will have gotten rid of all your transport units, and given up on keeping your firefighters certified as paramedics, so resuming fire-based paramedic service would be a very expensive proposition. Do you think Rural Metro’s renewal proposal will be: a) lower than its initial proposal; b) the same as its initial proposal; or c) as much as they want to charge? Take your time, and show your work…

    1. OK, OK… Sorry for the hyperbole. Rural Metro won’t be able to charge whatever they want for renewing your contract. The free market suggests they will charge one dollar less than the amortized annual cost of reconstituting your entire paramedic program. This amount will, of course, still be significantly more than your annual cost of merely operating your current system. And, as an added bonus, the private paramedics who walk into your home will no longer be your employees, subject to a para-military command structure and strict disciplinary matrix — but rather the low-paid, high-turnover employees of a company, against whom your only recourse is a civil lawsuit for breach of contract. So feel free to choose, but please look beyond the price tag before you do…

      1. And I should also clarify that Rural Metro or AMR may not charge the City for its paramedic service, but instead directly bill City residents for services rendered. This makes EMS less like an insurance policy for which everyone shares the cost, and instead makes it a catastrophic cost which falls upon those unlucky enough to become ill or injured. It also makes it more difficult to actually measure whether the change from fire-based EMS to for-profit EMS saves any money overall. Finally, each time the private EMS provider’s contract comes up for renewal, the private provider can decide the contract is not worth renewing, leaving the City to reconstitute its fire-based service.

  27. My brother is in the ARMY and makes $24,000 a year and he gets shot at. He has to work 20 years to get 50% of his pay. He will max out in 20 years as enlisted guy at about $35,000 a year so he gets $17,500 a year. Wow, being a fireman and being in parades, never leaving local soil for war, and getting these types of benefits – he shoudl have been a fireman. And by the way, you signed up for this so its yoru job to go into a burning building and you love the rush factor just like its a secret service guys job to take a bullet for the president or a marine/Navy/Army to die in combat. The police and fire are way overpaid and we have been highjacked by the Unions and the left. Lets stop the BS – more people need to get involved, this country is going down the tubes and were broke because everyone retires at 50 – we cant afford this.

    1. And if he wants to be a firefighter instead, he’ll have an excellent chance. Applicants to our department get extra points for military service. Out of the 152 applicants hired off my list, the first 150 had military points. Then you can start calling him an overpaid coward!

    2. A typical 30 year fire chief of a 50,000 town will often get a bigger pension than a four star general or admiral. Who had the bigger job, more arduous living conditions, carried more responsibility and took far greater risks?

      Indeed, a fire battalion chief (heads up 4-8 trucks and is responsible for at most 100 men) can receive a bigger pension than the U.S. general commanding our forces in Europe.

      This is madness!

      1. You leave off the other benefits of the job.

        My CO (a four star) had a mansion supplied by the taxpayer replete with staff. A driver, and taxpayer supplied car. He had immediate access to a private jet and private helicopter.

        Meals at the residence was also supplied by the taxpayer. After retiring at 3/4s pay (at 53) he went to work for a defense contractor paying well into the six digits range.

        Once again you leave off pertinent info that doesn’t fit your narrative.

        1. Oh Jesus Christ you are tedious. Your CO?

          Who the hell cares if he went to work for a defense contractor.

          You really are a priceless piece of irrelevance.

          1. I’m not the one who brought it up.

            If someone is going to compare one occupation to another one should do a full comparison. Not just pay.

        2. Goodness! What a truly pathetic post!

          You think 4 star officers STARTED as four stars??? BTW, do you realize how few have attained that rank in the last 60 years?

          Of COURSE they have good perks when they get to that pinnacle — but they went through many years of dangerous and arduous service in the lower ranks to get there — many times more dangerous than what ff’s experience.

          Whereas at any point in time there are thousands of overpaid, overpensioned ff battalion chiefs and fire chiefs, there are at most 40 military officers have made it to four stars.

          Cumulatively, these military officers were each separated from their families for a number of years. — many times the dinky separations of ff’s from their families. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think they get overtime for working extra hours, or being deployed for months on end.

          Now I understand that you are just desperately arguing to defend your exorbitant compensation. It’s your nature. Though it IS funny that you ff’s like to think of yourselves as “public servants.”

          But when you make asinine posts like this, you give away whatever credibility you might otherwise bring to the discussion. And I thank you for that.

          Logic and reason are the LAST thing you wish to see enter the discussion.

          1. Richard, thanks for some clarity. This idiot thinks we should be comparing Billy Bob the fireman with No, it makes zero sense, but it fits his/her narrative.

          2. Several thousand have attained that rank in the last 60 years. What’s your point? You leave off the whole comparison of what attaining that rank benefits an individual.

            As far as dangerous and arduous service, you’ve got to be kidding!!

            Here’s one. A retired admiral.


            What dangerous and arduous service did she encounter on her way to flag rank? Tripping over a loose cord? Chipping a nail on her keyboard? Accidentally choking on lunch in the galley. Not all generals are combat veterans. In fact there are more who aren’t.

            Being retired military I have some insight into the lifestyle. Many do encounter family seperattions. Many more do not. Most of my ROTC class never left the CONUS during our careers and didn’t fire a weapon after our training. Your exaggeration of military life is more than likely an aberration fed you by some wannabe hero. The majority of military personnel never see combat. Even during wartime. The USMC just released a study that showed motorcycle riding was more deadly for their younger Marines than being in Iraq. And I have no doubt you lack any insight into what being a firefighter entails other than some idiot blog like this one.

            I could care less if they play video games, sleep, or wash their cars all day. When I call 911, they better be working their butts off. Something they did the one time I called them.

            Lastly, as I had to instruct the idiot who calls himself Joe Sipoidiot. I’m not a firefighter. Not that I expect you to be able to read with much better comprehension than those on this board who do nothing but criticize those who have achieved far more than they could ever dream of doing on their own.

    3. I could be an ass like a local congressman and say that your brother volunteered.

      Your brother also enjoys subsidized housing, meals, a health care system (that would be considered socialist) and a pension that he could theoretically start collecting before he’s 40.

      I won’t claim enlisted personnel are getting rich. In fact I believe it was one of the biggest injustices that we pay our military personnel so little. As opposed to the corporate heads of weapons manufacturers who are paid millions with all the perks of a general that include a golden parachute (aka defined benefit) if they are fired.

      Your anger is missplaced.

      1. Why do you keep blathering about “corporate heads.” I don’t pay their salaries I don’t give a shit about that. But my neighbors and I pay for all those retire-at-50 thieves who will pull down 100K for the next 30 plus years while we will have to keep working until we’re seventy.

        Your lame ass response: get a government job.

        1. Actually in some cases you do.

          Of course it would demand that you know something about something more significant than writing drivel on an obscure blog.

          There are many corporations whose primary source of revenue is government spending. Defense and health care corporations (via Medicare and the Prescription Drug Act) are two prime examples. Now here’s the tricky part morons like you don’t understand. Those revenue streams from the government are paid by taxpayers. Even idiot taxpayers like you.

          Then we get into government enforced monopolies like the public utilities. The CEO of PG&E made over $10M last year. More than any public servant will make in a lifetime. I’m betting he works more than one year.

          Then we get into the owners of those benefit from local government and their enforced monopolies. Trash haulers and ambulance companies.

          Lastly we get into the private contractors like city attorneys. How much did Fullerton pay its city attorney last year? Guess who paid those fees. That’s right. Taxpayers!! Even the idiot taxpayer like you.

  28. This is a crock of shit!! Firefighters DO work 24 hours shifts, based on a 56 hour work week. We spend nights, weekends and holidays away from our families. We do NOT make anywhere near that much money. AND, we do NOT have our retirements continue to our spouses when we die. We DO risk our lives to save YOUR lives.
    Whatever asshole put this video together is a misinformed jerk.
    Here’s a news flash for you guys……….firefighters are taxpayers too, but we are taxpayers who deserve what LITTLE we get, and put our lives on the line to get it. Anyone who is anti-firefighter is a misinformed jerk. You may rail against us now, and make stupid videos, but when you need us, you’ll be whining like a little bitch praying that we get there soon. Unappreciative jerks!!

  29. Oliver Stone, you are THE misinformed asshole. Try coming down to the firehouse you coward, put on the gear and TRY to do the job. You can’t because you are a coward piece of shit. The only brave you got in you is to sit behind your keyboard anonymously posting up crap, you fucking coward piece of shit.
    Mark, get informed moron, firefighters do NOT get free medical care for life, idiot.
    Volunteer, the reason there are paid firefighters is because you “volunteers”, many of whom get paid by the call, and set fires to make money, are NOT up to the job, don’t show up, and leave the municipality no choice but to hire reliable firefighters who make the job their careers. What a bunch of ungrateful assholes you guys are!!

  30. All I know is that with all the chemicals in Shawn Nelson’s hair, it has the potential to be 5 alarm blaze. No open flames near his melon. Wait, what the hell am I saying.

    1. Oliver Stone you are a complete HYPOCRITE!!! It’s the Damn Liberal Democrats like yourself who are in the Unoins back pockets!!

  31. So, a seasoned FF/paramedic
    makes 25$/hr,
    an experienced nurse makes 40$/hr,
    a physician’s assistant makes 75$/hr
    and an ER Doc makes 130$/hr.

    Yeah, let’s make fun of the lowest paid
    just because they’re public workers and
    we have access to their payroll.

    You clearly have not studied health care
    compensation in this country.

    1. Totally inaccurate. A normal work year is 2000 hours. You’re saying a PA makes $150,000 a year? No way. A PA in Orange County makes between $40,000 and $50,000 a year and I know because a family member employs one. And an ER doctor, according to you, makes $260,000 a year? Absolutely inaccurate. Low to mid $100,000s is more like it.

      Let’s not forget that even if your numbers were correct, comparing an ER doc to a firefighter is specious. An ER doc undergoes 8 years of schooling (4 years college, 4 years medical school) plus at least 3 years of a grueling, 80-100 hr/week residency (in which they make about $35,000 per year). Not saying firefighters shouldn’t be well paid, but don’t compare them to people who have to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars and over a decade of lost earning potential in their careers.

      1. Daniel-

        You just wasted everyone’s time here. You are
        clearly not even remotely in tune with the health
        care industry. If you truly know a PA in Orange
        County making 40 or 50k he or she must be only working about 10-15 hours/week or donating their time.

    2. That’s just ridiculous. You’re saying an emergency services provider makes only 50K year? We already know what a “seasoned” ems rakes in. When O/T is tacked on it’s up over 100K.

      And you’re comparing these guys with MDs? Good luck with that!

  32. Joe/Oliver- I didn’t say “low” but lowEST.
    That’s a superlative… And yes, I am
    comparing them with MD’s, but only for
    healthcare industry purposes, relax.
    I know how long med school and
    residency is…

    And this is not fantasy-land wages we’re
    talking, but Fullerton-land.

    I saw your chart, Joe, and I’m not saying
    a Fullerton EMS guy makes 50k a year.
    But I am saying most of those workers
    only make ~25$/hr.

    A work year for Fullerton FD is ~3000 hrs,
    not 2000. (They work 56hrs a week on
    average… do some research) So let’s look at the guy who racked up the most OT there on page 2 (note that he was a paramedic). Almost 1200 hrs! He hit it pretty hard. ~4200 hours for the year!

    But ~2750 of those hours were paid at the
    base rate of ~25$ an hour. Yes, FF’s
    have a special exemption under Federal
    Labor Standard Act law that excludes
    them from overtime protection until
    they exceed 53 hrs/week. (one of the
    reasons they are still called FF’s, if they
    were called medics, they would have to be
    paid OT rates after 40hrs…)

    So count the rest of those hours at OT
    rates and throw in several holidays
    worked (he likely worked every single one)
    and you’re not at 50k, but 130k.

    Outrageous! you say “I’m going to
    write a blog”, you say, “no paramedic
    has any business making 100k”….
    Nonsense, stop wasting everyone’s time.
    25$/hr is market pay, he just hit the OT
    really hard.

    Get over it. Here’s the thing Joe, Oliver, et al.
    All kinds of healthcare workers do this. Nurses, Techs, PA’s, NP’s, and Docs do it. You just don’t have access to their payroll because most of them are not government employees.

    And their rates are usually a whole lot more
    than 25$/hr, and most of them get time and a half after 40hrs/wk, not 53hrs/wk.

    Let it go, joe. Blogging just doesn’t pay
    that well. If you’re jealous of the OT
    go to paramedic school or nursing school.

  33. P.S. Our record for comments is 130, plus or minus, on a Pam Keller post. Of course most of those comments were 4SD Observer stroking himself.

  34. Joe Sipowicz :Richard, thanks for some clarity. This idiot thinks we should be comparing Billy Bob the fireman with No, it makes zero sense, but it fits his/her narrative.

    Joe. Give up trying to sound intelligent.

    It’s too late in your life to even try.

    That train done left the station.

    All you have left is the idiot ramblings on this blog that has you and your fellow morons talking to each other.

    You’re like the crazy homeless guy on the street yelling at no one or thing in particular.

    The type where one doesn’t make eye contact and just keeps walking.

    1. No, we’re talking to you, apparently. Shall I count up your comments?

      You people must be getting really nervous. And I don’t blame you for that. A hard rains gonna fall soon. And it will finally be your turn turn to receive it,

      1. Please do.

        Words can’t describe the amount of anticipation I have knowing you have that kind of time to waste doing something completely pointless.

        You are pathetic.

        1. And look at all the time you have to waste being entertained by our blog. Why, I’d almost suppose you were an emergency services provider.

          1. I’d be honored to be compared to people who have chosen a noble calling.

            Much preferable than being compared to an idiot blogger such as yourself.

  35. Joe, What up bro, did a FF take your wife, or something close. Did you fail a FF test? Cant you see that when the “TRUE” facts are given, you have no argument or counter facts, only a nasty comment. Just because you can make your followers angry, does’t meen your right. And quit getting so mad over bad spelling, we all don’t have all day to sit around, blog and correct our typos.

    1. No, but an organized mob of emergency service providers have had their greedy hands in my wallet my entire working life.

      1. So what makes them any different than any other group?

        That’s what makes capitalism.

        I know that is too much for your feeble mind to grasp.

        1. Capitalism does not ensvisage government labor monopolies.

          Only in your weird fantasy brand of “free enterprise” where public employees negotiate with other public employees while they all ratchet up their pay and benefits does this occur.

          I know you were too busy defending our country to study basic economic theory, but really, nobody’s going to buy into your load of road apples.

          1. Capitalism also doesn’t envisage large corporate monopolies like publicly owned utility companies either. But they exist and you and the rest of the idiot bloggers seem to never mention them.

            Capitalism also doesn’t envisage large oligopolies like the oil and auto companies.

            Yet they also exist. And you don’t mention them either.

            I don’t expect you to “buy” anything given that you have no idea about your subject in the first place.

            Why don’t you run along. If you’re lucky you might actually do something with your life that is worthwhile.

  36. “Why don’t you run along. If you’re lucky you might actually do something with your life that is worthwhile.”

    Yes, we could all become Pam Keller collaborators and feel ever so self-righteous and superior.

  37. When comparing four star generals with ff’s, let’s go beyond just the substantial difference in risk. Look at the massive difference in RESPONSIBILITY.

    A four star general or admiral is responsible for billions in equipment, and thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of employee who must be ready to face high probability death.

    A Fullerton fire chief is responsible for how much equipment, and how many employees? Better yet, look at the Fullerton BATTALION chief (assuming you have some). Then compare compensation with responsibility.

    FF’s should be embarrassed by the disparity — but obviously they are not. Indeed, they still think that they are woefully UNDERPAID!

    1. More bovine scatalogy. There are generals who are faced with those command decisions. They are in the minority. There are dozens if not hundreds of others who sole purpose is supporting the combat effort and more than likely won’t risk anything. I won’t dismiss the possibility of death, but make no mistake it isn’t a high probability. When one looks at the numbers of troops deployed to combat and those who are killed it is a very small number. So quit using platitudes. The majority of military personnel never even get near a combat area in their careers. An intelligent person would know that. Pretty much rules you out.

      I pointed out one member of admiral rank who was never faced with any of the responsibilities you claim are commonplace. You keep bringing up exceptions to the rule and try to make everyone believe that is the norm. You’re clearly clueless on the realities of military life.

      I see no reason why anyone should be embarrassed over their compensation.

      What I do see is the constant whinings of ne’er do wells like yourself who have never done anything that amounts to much. Somehow you believe posting on a blog compensates for that. I’ll take the likes of a so called “overpaid” firefighter over an idiot blogger like yourself anyday. You continue to put some nonsense about lower pay. All it shows that at some time you compromised your life to mediocrity and believe everyone else should as well.

      1. And other point. The general you cite who is making all these life and death decisions is paid the same as the one whose only brush with death might be choking on a piece of blissfully broiled chateau briand at the O-Club during Happy Hour. Should those non-combat generals also be embarassed over their pay compared to the combat counterparts?

      2. And what have you ever done “that amounted to much?”

        Collaborating with Pam Keller to take credit for other people’s charity doesn’t count.

        You don’t just don’t like anything that doesn’t have a government price tag.

    2. RR-

      You are out of date and out of touch with
      military compensation. Funny, since the taxpayers
      still send you a check every month and
      cover your medical insurance.

      CBO estimates the average ONE-star general’s
      compensation package at just shy of $400,000/yr.
      (a four star general’s is over half a mil)

      No CA fire Bat chief is getting that even
      in the phenomenally mismanaged Bell, CA.

      CBO estimated a married E-9’s comp package
      at 170k in 2007! and the military has had
      substantial raises since then.

      I support good compensation for our military.
      I think they deserve it. Perhaps you don’t???
      You brought up the comparison, remember.

      I hope that check keeps coming to your house.
      Your hypocrisy is stunning.

  38. FF’s are running calls ( in battle ) every day. Generals are lucky (according to them ) if they ever see a battle. How else do Generals get promoted. Patton almost killed himself to get into battle. FF’s are paid for what they will do, not always what they are doing that moment. Funny how no one cared about FF’s when every Joe blow in town was making hand over fist destroying are economy.

    1. Joes Nuts :
      Funny how no one cared about FF’s when every Joe blow in town was making hand over fist destroying are economy.

      I cannot stand that ridiculous argrument. The amount of people who were making money hand over fist because of the real estate bubble and all the illegal stuff that went on with it, is minuscule compared to the total population. Come on.

      1. And there are only about a 100K professional firefighters in the US. Out of a population of over 300M.

        A miniscule amount compared to the total population.

  39. We can pay these professional FF’s 30 K a year and we will get what we pay for. Do you know what they call a 30 K a year cop? A security guard. Is that the professional standard you want? Joe, please invite all your buds to this web site asap so they can here the other side. 4SD is making some great points that I see you cant argue with, at least intelligently.

  40. Joes Nuts :Do you know what they call a 30 K a year cop? A security guard.

    I agree. There isn’t much distinction between the two other than pay. Also, cops have to write a few more reports.

  41. Donut.. Another silly comment with no substance. Easy to ridicule these pros until you need an experienced, well trained FF or Officer to save you or your loved ones ass. Bet you wouldn’t call on a security guard if someone was breaking into your house while your wife and kids were inside.

    1. That’s ridiculous. Almost all cops will go their entire careers without ever stopping a home invasion robbery in progress.

      1. I disagree J. Doughnut with your statement but at least they would respond to this call while you most likely would grab your laptop and hide. You make this shit up because I know you have no clue what really happens in LE. JohnnyDoughnut why don’t you see the real world and go for a walk down a dark alley around 1AM at some of Fullerton’s more seedy locations. If your scared, go to the downtown bar area on a thurs-fri-sat night at 130-300AM and see all the neat things that happen in the parking lots and patios of these fabulous bars.

      2. Then let’s apply this logic elsewhere. The greater majority >90% of military personnel will never fire a shot towards an enemy.

        Let’s get rid of them as well.

        And tell Richard Rider to pound sound with his pointless analogies.

  42. This hero thing is getting out of hand. A hero is not someone who just does their job, like fire fighters, police and military personal. Going to fight a fire does not constitute a hero. Directing traffic does not constitute a hero. Joining the Army and going to war does not constitute a hero. It’s their job!
    The real hero usually goes undetected. We toss this term around so much that it has become meaningless.

  43. until you’ve literally put your life on the line, your job or not, you wouldn’t know how it feels. Obviously many people have read these blog responses and realize how skewed Joe’s so called facts are. Joe you must hate when your not just preaching to the choir. This isn’t Fox news.

    1. Life on the line? Is that meant to be funny? For all you know he works as a clerk at a 7-11 – a much more dangerous job than being an emergency services provider. Probably ten times more dangerous.

      1. Good point. Why don’t we give 7-11 clerks 3 @ 50, all paid for by the taxpayers? They work harder and longer than those so-called fire fighters. And their job really are dangerous.

        Oh no, wait. That’s private enterprise where skillset collides with economic reality!

  44. Aw, Joe, Now why did you go and do that? You’ve already set a record. Now you’re just toying with them for your own amusement.

  45. more dribble from Joe’s nut gallery. And what do you all do for a living and how much do you make? Come on, let us know. Because if you find it amusing and fun to make fun of FF’s work, just think how easy it would be to ridicule you. So easy when shooting cannon fire from long distances.

    1. I consider criticism coming from someone like you a compliment.

      Isn’t it time for you to bring another one of your half assed points (like the 70% of FD’s are volunteer) around again.

      That got blown out of the water pretty quick.

  46. i never take joes side, but in this case i dont think his source of income is coming from raping the taxpayers, firefighters and cops and super overpaid, i guarentee you qualified people would be easily found if they had a 401k style plan like everyone else, and a reasonable salary.

    1. I’ll ask you since Joe Sippymoron ran from this question.

      Should we put all military personnel into 401(k) retirement plans as well?

      I’m sure we could find qualified people would be easily found.

      If so, when are you going to write your congressman (assuming it’s Ed Royce) to start pushing that issue?

    2. Wow… So far, firefighters have been called “vulgar”, “distasteful”, “jackoffs”, “lackeys” and “barnacles” on this thread. Now you add “rapists”. I agree that we aren’t all “heroes”, but I’d like to think that our dedicated service to the public – regardless of the hour or the conditions – entitles us to a bit more respect that that…

  47. 4SD Observer :Fair enough. I have more faith that finances will dictate compensation.
    Something the idiots on this board don’t take into account.
    All they do is bash public servants. More than likely because their lives are so miserable.

    How about supply and demand-you know, what happens in the real world-dicates compensation????????

    When 1,000 wannabe applicants apply for a GED job you can lower the comp.

    1. Should we do that with all jobs?

      Being an astronaut pays into the six digit range. I know qualified folks who would do it for free.

      Same with flying military aircraft. Especially fighter planes. The military requires one be an officer which requires a college degree. Neither of which are required to be a good pilot.

      Since you believe 1,000 people are in line for a single job. Something I’d like to see proved, what is the proper number of applicants per opening that would lead you to believe compensation is in equilibrium.

      I pointed out to one of the other morons on this board, my son was accepted to the USMA. He was accepted out of about 12K applicants. They pay him to attend. Should they not pay him (or his classmates) since there are so many applicants. They all graduated from high school. Which is the minimum academic requirement.

      Do you believe that paying people less ensures a better or lesser product?

  48. 4SD Observer :I’ll ask you since Joe Sippymoron ran from this question.
    Should we put all military personnel into 401(k) retirement plans as well?
    I’m sure we could find qualified people would be easily found.
    If so, when are you going to write your congressman (assuming it’s Ed Royce) to start pushing that issue?

    Why are you talking about the military??? Are Firewhiners part of the military?

    This is about over comped firewhiners-stop spinning and deflecting the questions.

    1. No they’re not. They are public servants. If you don’t understand the comparison you may want to read up on what defines a public servant versus someone who works in the private sector.

      Clearly you too are a moron like the others on this board.

      BTW, I’ve never heard a firefighter whine.

      This must be yet another figment of your imagination.

  49. Richard Rider, Chairman San Diego Tax Fighters :It has become apparent that 4SD has run out of material points to present — not that he had any to start with. He’s been reduced to psycho-babble and blustering.
    I see no need to humiliate him further.

    4sd is a welfare queen leach, tyring to live his “hero” life off the backs of the poor and middle class.

    4sd is a joke.

    1. More idiocy from the moron crowd.

      I like you idiot syllogistic mindset. Since I don’t bash public employees I must be one.

      You’re just like the other idiots on this board.

      Does you car detail business pay well? It’s okay to admit that’s what you do. It’s honest work.

  50. A work year for Fullerton FD is ~3000 hrs,
    not 2000. (They work 56hrs a week on
    average… do some research)

    Hahahah….56 hours of “work”….where do you get paid to Sleep….errrr I mean “work” in the real world!!!!

    Dozing for dollars!!!!

  51. Fake OCO…

    I guess the hospital isn’t part of the real world.

    Go find the “physician’s sleeping room”
    next to your local ER.

    You have obviously never tried to get through
    a night shift in your life.

  52. Fake OCO details cars, no wonder he is so pissed. I kind of just feel sorry for you now OCO. 4SD, you have these guys in a tail spin and once their little buddies read the real truth they all left. Make Joe look desperate and pathetic, CHECK!

    1. Saw a neat sight today driving on east on Bastanchury west of Euclid. I saw a Sebourn for Council sign right above a Hunt for Sheriff sign. Maybe a fun photo?

  53. Also saw a fire today in Fullerton. Wow, thought they didn’t have those anymore Joe. Thank God for FIREFIGHTERS.

    1. And were there any “firefighters” fighting anything? Or were they just standing around watching it burn down?

      Or did they impose a hundred grand of water damage on a kitchen fire?

    2. Is it possible for you union apes to accept that people can support public safety under the version that existed before the 1999 pension spiking era? Why is it a mandate that we gut every other department at the city and tease bankruptcy just to pay for a 3% at 50 plan that every honest person (even those who receive it) admits is a failure?

  54. There is a lot of truth in this video. Public “servants” are not always what they appear to be. Just look at Bell City California and how the public servants there, including the hero police chief, were robbing the taxpayers giving themselves 700k/year salaries paid for by folks making as little as 25k/year. Or look at the city of San Diego where public “servants” there voted their own pensions and are now collecting up to 300k/year in pension from taxpayers. The “shut up and pay” crowd in here isn’t fooling anyone. We understand you have agovernment job and want to protect it but be careful because your “shut up and pay up” attitude is not going to help you. The people are fed up with corruption in government and with serving the “servants” with high taxes.

  55. I think Joe & Richard Rider are too fat and lazy to take and pass a fire fighter’s physical and written test because they are ALWAYS blogging and whinning about someone or something!!! They are “professional complainers” because they are to lazy to get off their collective asses and put themselves in someone elses shoes. I’m also a Viet Nam Vet and it makes me sick to see that I fought for people like this so they can enjoy their fe speech!!! Hey Joe & Richard, don’t knock something until you’ve tried it by walking in someone elses shoes you hippocrites.

  56. I strongly agree with my twin brother. And Joe, before you correct Mike’s spelling let me state that he was stating:……..free speech….. It seems when someone backs you into a corner that instead of answering them you nit pick on their spelling. Like my brother said, you are a hippocrite and I’m willing to bet that if you had a fire or medical (EMS) emergency at your residence you’d be wanting to worship the ground they walk on to obtain the proper help!! Susan from Chicago PD hit the nail on the head!! Although it’s NOT California my brother and I are 20+ year veterans of the Chicago Fire Dept. and we just lost one of our brother’s in a line of duty death. This is NOT a joke or PARODY sir, this is REAL. To look at the faces of his parents and fiance during the funeral would have made you well up with tears just as our city’s 3 brother Police Officers who died earlier this year. NO money can be put on a human life and you people look at it as dollars and cents. I hope you sleep well during the night because of the Police & Fire Personnel who are on duty around the clock protecting & serving YOU!!! Fire & Police Personnel belong to their family and our Fire & Police family which is worldwide. We are a brotherhood/sisterhood family that is there to help one another in time of need whether we personally know that brother or sister, one of us will be there for them, even if it’s in Fullerton, California. God Bless Our Brother & Sister Fire & Police Personnel.

  57. How much money do these politicians make. Mayors, alderman?. More than I do as a union Firefighter. Is a doctor over paid, how about volunteer doctors, or volunteer policemen, how many of those are around. Lets face it how many laywers do pro bono work, not many. Being a volunteer firefighter is great and noble,I was one for many years, but if my house was on fire, call me a career fire department asap. Instead of waiting for 2 or 3 volly’s to show up from their real job to respond. You get what you pay for. I want the best. My garbage man makes more than I do, Hmmm I wonder if he wants to play fireman in his town.

  58. Sean :
    So exactly what amount of money is a reasonable salary for running into burning buildings, climbing around on icy pitched roofs, approaching possible shootings, stabbings or hazardous material spills, kneeling in a pool of a stranger’s blood, straining to help carry a 400lb patient down a few flights of stairs, and significantly raising one’s chances of contracting cancer, heart disease, emphysema, hepatitis, etc?

    Whatever amount the market deems is reasonable. Declare the union illegal and open hiring to everyone who can pass standard tests and training. My guess is you would have lines around fire stations of willing, hard working men ready to do the job for 50-60K per year salary with medical, a reasonable retirement, and no overtime for going over 40 hours (should be based on days since firemen are NOT working the entire time they are on call.)

    1. Oh yeah, if you know any firemen or anyone who has tried to join you know it’s a game of who knows who. The unions purposely limit the apparent pool of applicants to help drive up costs. Unions should be outlawed in this country. They served their purpose decades ago but the world has changed and they no longer have a purpose.

      1. When you talk about getting a job because of WHO you know, rather than WHAT you know, you must be thinking of the private sector. If you really DO know any firefighters, you know that getting on the job is an anonymous civil service process where the only thing that matters is how your score adds up. Of course, the powers that be usually add points for military service (to get workers who are already used to the para-military organizational structures of the fire service) and for fire-related education (in order to give credit to those who have already done some preparation for the job). Unlike the private sector, there are no extra points given for your dad going to school with the interviewer’s dad.

    2. Gee, I don’t know, how much are paying soldiers in Afghanistan to do that same job? Those heroes make a pittance compared to fire, they do not go home to their families every few days, and they sleep in the dirt. Are they less heroes because they lack a military union?

      1. Yep. We have become so desperate for “heroes” that we turn almost anybody into one. Soldiers living a day to day existence in some shit hole like Afghanistan get hardly a pittance.

        “Work” a few hours a week (sleep more) in a Fullerton “fire” station, make a few paramedic runs into the barrio, and you are hero, and you deserve.

  59. To DT.. you must be smoking crack!!! The unions play no role in the hiring process. Here is the problems with pensions today. As unions bargained for better benifits City administrations never prepared to pay the freight. Now as they scramble to save budgets they turn & blame the firefighters & police. Contracts are two ways both parties agree to all sections of any contract and therfore must live with all sections. It does not allow for the municipalities to skip any payments into respective pensions. In Illinois pension benifits are a agreed to process, both parties must agree to the legislative bill in order for it even to be heard and signed into law. City Administrators have responsibility to pay the fund just like any other bill they must pay. We as firefighters & police officers pay our part our whole career. Now we are under scrutiny for overstatded pensions.
    So take your private ambulance and go sit at high school football games and just be happy you are allowed to do that.

    1. “We as firefighters & police officers pay our part our whole career.”

      Welcome to California. Here WE pay your part your whole “career.” That’s finally changing – but only because of a fiduciary meltdown.

  60. Okay… Lets talk about the first fire. My family has owned our ranch since 1961. Over the years, we have had fires all around us. We know how the wind blows. We asked the fire department to please not do a burn – they didn’t listen. The fire turned the other direction and took out two full size wooden arenas- burned most of facilities down.

    This year, there was a big fire again. The neighbors up the canyon with 4 little children and two horses were surrounded. The firemen sat at the entrance of the canyon and would not go up to the house. We crossed the line to help save the horses and make sure everyone was okay. Then my sister tried to get home because her son and friends were home alone also. The firemen once again would not do anything about it and would not let us cross the road. We had to take the quad a different direction to get the kids. The arrogance of these men. While driving on my own property to cut a limb off of a burning oak tree, one of the firemen called the sheriffs and said that I was driving with an open container on my own property. Needless to say, I got arested for a Dui… Thanks to the arrogance of some men who felt that I was a nuisance to their job while they sat and watched things burn.

  61. Fullerton has the same issues as many cities across America. Las Vegas has the same issue among 3 fire agencies. When the tax coffers were overflowing with housing taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, gaming revenue, no city leaders stood up to this outrageous salary and benefit structure. The politicians let the Unions contribute to their campaigns, and the good times rolled. Benefits were extracted from the communities under the “hero’s deserve it” mentality, when the plain fact is how often do you see fires blazing in your neighborhood?, sprinkler systems, smoke dectectors and costly fire blue print inspections have all but eliminated fires.
    So now the hero’s know money’s tight, many are trying to get deeper into EMS to bill health insurances, and take money that way. It’s a tragedy we allow this. Someplace in Arizona has the firemen when they are sitting around shopping for dinner, or watching Oprah, mowing the city lawns in the parks – now there’s your exercise hose jocks….
    Soon it will be “Pay to Spray” they will be asking to be paid more money if they have to fight fire.
    City officials, the light is on, and your hand is in the city coffers paying off the Fire Fighters to keep them walking your campaign. – Stop it. As hard working residents, we don’t make these salary’s in our jobs. And Just who works for whom here?

  62. This is hilarious. Unfortunately, it’s mostly bullshit. I’ve been a fireman on the south side of Chicago for over 15 years and have yet to meet a firefighter that makes 120k under the rank of captain. I started at a whopping 29.5k. Overtime? comes very seldom to us. Yeah, we have slow days, we also have days where we never even see the firehouse and have fought 4,5 fires. And we fight all kinds of fires, factories, projects, highrises, old battle-ships you name it. You may think we’re too highly paid, but there are days that most people wouldn’t take a million $ to trade places with us. I have screws in my foot, my partner has a rod in his arm, another of my brothers has one in his spine, injuries and scars are commonplace, and we don’t get anything extra upon retirement. And most of our retirees die within their 1st year of retirement, usually from cancer due to years of working in hazardous atmospheres. Those numbers will go down with the better safety equipment, but you better fucking believe they earned every penny, and their widows deserve some compensation. To echo a sentiment shared by the CPD officer, I’ve been to several funerals over the years for fallen brothers. And seen many more forced off the job by injury. Not to mention how many have been hurt rescuing a “baby” that turns out to be a cocker spaniel. And yeah, most of us work side jobs on our off days, but that’s usually because it’s necessary. As a condition of employment, we’re required to live in Chicago, one of the most highly taxed cities in the US. And we generally have to send our kids to private or catholic schools because the Chicago public schools suck so bad. We’re not all buying fancy toys to play at our lakehouses. And we’re not alone, most of the 343 heroes who gave their lives in New York, couldn’t even afford to live in the neighborhoods they sacrificed all to protect. That’s fucking sick.
    If you still think professional FF’s are overpaid do nothing jerk-offs, come stradle the peak of a burning building at 3am in sub-zero temps this winter, or crawl down a flaming hallway with zero visibility. Until you’ve done that, you have nothing to say.

    1. “I’ve been a fireman on the south side of Chicago for over 15 years and have yet to meet a firefighter that makes 120k under the rank of captain.”

      Too bad you don’t work in Fullerton, CA. You’d have two houses and tow your big ass boat to The River on the weekends.

      And why does a “captain” get 120K?

  63. “come stradle the peak of a burning building at 3am in sub-zero temps this winter, or crawl down a flaming hallway with zero visibility. Until you’ve done that, you have nothing to say.”

    Oh bullshit.

    1. “Until you’ve done that, you have nothing to say.”

      Yes, randy that’s right shut up. You and I just pay the bill. We have nothing to say. And that’s their attitude: arrogance, and self-interest, uber alles. And if we “have nothing to say.”

      Fortunately, we all have plenty to say, and are saying it. And they hate for pulling the scab off their con game.

      Maybe those ambulance chasers should start their own misinformation blog and they can all visit it and post chilling tales of roof straddling, and icy roof tangos.

  64. It’s pretty easy to make a video like this to bash on any public safety sector. Yes there are some cities that provide a higher salary than others, but that does not speak for a majority of the departments, I pay the same taxes as you do. I work my ass off everyday I show up to my firehouse, make $60,000 a year doing it, and run 10 calls a shift. So when I go home…. hell ya i’m going to rest and still get stuff done around the house and take care of my kids. We all choose are careers and obviously you chose the wrong one hahaha. Your a fucking idiot and probably to fucking chicken to even do the job. Deal with all the nasty ass people we deal with or train your ass off like we do, so when your grown ass calls for help we can show up and save your sorry ass that you are to pussy to do. Dont cry because you work 8-5 and have two days off a week and your fucking knee hurts. I go to work everyday with both my knee’s and shoulder’s hurting and still do my job to help people like your whining ass. I never had pain before I started this job and I’m only 30. But I’m not going to stop because I couldnt imagine doing anything else. So keep sitting behind your pretty little desk complaining and next time you or your kids need help think about why you pay taxes just like i do…. Oh ya, you might want to set up another retirement so you can buy a new truck and boat and trailer to let your bones rest after sitting behind that desk.

    1. Takes a lot of guts to shoot hoops, take the truck to the grocery store, cook your chow and go to sleep. 2 days a week.

      Oh yeah, and a handful of paramedic calls week where two or three companies show up and stand around.


  65. Thanks Bryan. Randy Rump-Rodder probably bases all of his knowledge of firefighting on episodes of Rescue Me.

    1. “And most of our retirees die within their 1st year of retirement, usually from cancer due to years of working in hazardous atmospheres.”

      Well, that’s just an outright lie. One of many. But who’s counting? You are HERO and deserve!

      1. Right on, Joe. Snow Dog just revealed the deficiencies of stopping one’s education at the 12th Grade.

        If his claim were true it would follow that “most” of these goons would have died on the job at 51 – before they got the 3 @ 50, which of course we know is total bullshit.

        But actuarial logic means nothing to these characters. They rely on emotion and political leverage.

  66. The majority of firefighters are fu**in Republicans anyway (Yes hipocracy).
    Regardless of politics, my father was a FF and retired as a battalion chief. Sleep??? NO, not in LA. Bodies and harsh exposure?? YES.
    He will probably die in his 60’s. So dont worry misled conserv’s, the toxins will kill them young.

      1. EM-

        He said his dad worked in LA.

        LA numbers are not covered in CALPERS,
        any more than Detroit or NYC would be.
        They have their own system. Your so called
        CALPERs data does not apply to his claim.

        Keep hanging out in your Fullerton World
        correcting spelling. (Don’t we have a computer
        program that can do that now?)

        Stop blaming the FF/medics for your choice
        of a poor degree.

        1. Oh, thanks for the explanation. LA has completely different statistics than the rest of the State.

          That, of course is unadulterated bullshit, but typical of the way you present you crumbling case.

          And don’t blame me because you guys are only semi-literate.

  67. ENGLISH MAJOR you must be the biggest punk out here. I’m sure you will call like a little bitch when you need help and the FF or PD will respond to handle your problem for you.

  68. Wow. I have 3 neighbors and two cousins that are FF’s, two of them are Captains. This clip is DEAD NUTZ ON and mirrors my frustration and anger with public employees. They all have gorgeous houses, RV’s, boats & big trucks, SUV’s or some combination. All of them will retire with pensions that are 3 times what I could ever dream about retiring on – and I’m the president of my company. They all have easy schedules that can be changed, bent and modified to free up 1 or 2 weeks of time off every month. Because they have so much free time, some of them have secondary side jobs while some do a combo extra overtime shift(s) & take monthly vacations with their toys. Most of them are planning to retire in their 50’s. All of them enjoy a stress free component of their jobs – they never worry about getting laid off while I’m terrified I won’t be able to keep my company afloat in this economy.

    Don’t get me wrong I want FF’s & have no problem paying them a decent wage. When I pay my taxes I EXPECT police, fire & military protection, plus roads and schooling as the basics covered by those taxes. Everything after that comes a distant second place, even though the stupid politicians don’t manage our money that way. But that doesn’t mean that we should throw endless amounts of our tax dollars at them in disproportionate amounts. Public servant jobs have gotten out of hand – WAY out of hand.

  69. Please spare me the pathetic comments about “hope you don’t have a fire” etc. The issue is not about courage or service; too many fire fighters hide behind that to justify extreme pay. We all know that thousands of people would line up to take a fire fighters job and a fraction of the pay that unions and their political sponsors dish out. Let’s go back to part-time, volunteer or private fire fighting. Public union fire fighters are looting the taxpayer behind that cowardly mantra of claiming to save babies.

    1. Sure, why not go back to an all-volunteer fire service? By the time the volunteers get out of their own beds or offices, get back to the fire station to get their rigs, and then get to your burning house, they might not be in time to save your kids, but I guarantee they’ll always save your basement…

  70. Sean :Well, then, there’s the 50-year old fellow who developed chest pain while playing basketball. He was pale and diaphoretic when we arrived, and said he felt like he was going to die. We confirmed an acute MI with a 12-lead EKG, started an IV to raise his 90 systolic BP, began treating him with sublingual nitroglycerin (he had already taken a 325mg aspirin), and began carrying him down the stairs. As we descended, he told me his pain was reduced from 10/10 to 8/10, then he said “Oh, oh…” and slumped over with his eyes open. Checked for a pulse and found none, so we started CPR and hustled him into our rig. He was now in V-fib, so we put on the pads and shocked him at 200 joules. Continued CPR, gave our first round of Epinephrine, and prepared to give Amiodarone. Next rhythm check revealed a junctional rhythm, and then we found a pulse and obtained a BP. Quick ride to the local ER, and he was on his way to the cath lab before I even finished my report. But the best part was when he and his wife walked into the firehouse a few weeks later with a Thank You card. That seems to me a pretty good return on that fellow’s tax payment, and a bit more than “barely above average”. Or did you learn how to run a code when you were 18?

    1. Rolling out the stories to justify union fire fighter pay misses the point. Using that logic, why not pay every fire fighter a million dollars per year. Those stories are shields to avoid the real issue, which is what pay does it take to attract and keep fire fighters. it is much less than most fire fighters are now paid. We all know that thousands of people would line up to take a current union fire fighter’s job at a fraction of the current average union pay. I am appreciative of the service that fire fighters render to the public. But I am appalled that those same service providers exploit the misfortune of those they serve to raise their pay at the expense of the taxpayer.

      1. We’re not looking for a million dollars a year. We realize that we’d have to throw a ball through a hoop or hit an even smaller ball with a bat to justify that kind of pay. No, I’m just pointing out that the job of Firefighter/EMT or Firefighter/Paramedic requires a unique skill-set and constant refresher training, and provides enormous social utility, which helps justify our base salary of between $50K and $70K. If our employer chooses to run with a high number of vacant positions, and to fill those spots daily with overtime workers, then some of us will earn significant amounts of overtime pay as well. Our big-city department costs each city resident about $170 per year. Do you seriously contend that first-rate protection from fire, illness and injury isn’t worth this price? Do you seriously contend that replacing us with fast-food priced workers will provide anything near the same level of dedication and professionalism?

  71. S.E.-

    What fraction of their current avg. $25/hr do you
    suggest they get?

    You are out of date and out of touch with health
    care compensation.

    Please stop wasting everyone’s time with your
    high and mighty “no shield stories” bit.

  72. Mike :
    Hey Sean you must be a firefighter, you seem to have alot of time on your hands to write emails. I am not saying that the job of a firefighter is not dangerous at times. I am saying that there is a lot of time in between those dangerous times. You act like firefighters are nonstop saving lives and putting out fires. As for your compensation you feel you have comming, it is your compesation that is breaking the backs of many cities. Many cities that you work for that you don’t even live in many times. I believe in my city the number is 75% don’t live in the city.

    I am a firefighter/paramedic, so I work for 24 hours and then I’m off for 48 hours. That ends up being about 50 hours per week. My paramedic unit responds an average of 8 times a day, and every run on which we transport to a hospital takes about 1.5 hours. That means we may spend as much as half our day out of quarters, treating and transporting patients. Of the other half spent in quarters, some time is spent in training, some in paperwork, some in ordering and storing supplies, some in vehicle and house cleaning and maintenance, and — if we are lucky — some in eating and sleeping. And, since all 900+ members of our department are required by ordinance to live in the city, we all contribute to the tax base that supports us. Furthermore, we all pay out of pocket for all our meals, for all exercise equipment, for our TV, for all furniture besides office chairs, kitchen table and beds, and for our newspaper, cable, towel service, etc. I say this because, every time we shop for food, some taxpayer comes up to us and snipes “So, what are we feeding you today?”, and the most accurate answer is “Nothing, same as every day.”

        1. No, I would rather we separate the paramedic function from the “fire fighting” to cut down on all that useless driving back and forth of the whole company to car accidents, the hospitals to pick up their boy, etc.

          The we base “fire fighting” on actual need rather than emotion and allocate resources accordingly.

          1. The whole reason behind fire-based EMS is that fire departments already have the stations located in such a way as to minimize response time. So, in order to keep response times the same but keep the fire engines from driving around, you would either need to build a bunch of new ambulance-only stations, or give each crew an engine and an ambulance, or put a new ambulance and dedicated crew in each firehouse. Since no city wants to build new firehouses or hire new crews these days, and since a fire crew picking up from a medical run in an engine can immediately respond to a fire run, whereas a fire crew in an ambulance cannot, most cities send fire engines staffed by firefighter/EMTs to all fire or medical runs.

          2. When you and two buddies run for and get elected to the city council you should do all that and more.

            Here’s a hint.

            That will never happen as long as all you do is whine about it on a blog.

  73. Anyone can try to be a Fireman and get the real story. your schedule is 56 hours a week. your base pay in ca is 65k to 75k the rest is overtime and that is another deal. most pensions are 35k to 55k for the PERS system. Why do you think its the wealthiest retirement system in the world. The fact is you can take a few chiefs salaries and admin people and and get some high pensions. The tax free is not for hurt knee you must have a bad non fixable permanent Injury. If this were a free lunch I guess I missed it.

      1. Actually, it’s firefighter (firemen shovel coal into boilers) and, since it is a rank, it is capitalized when used as a title, but otherwise not.

  74. Sean :
    The whole reason behind fire-based EMS is that fire departments already have the stations located in such a way as to minimize response time. So, in order to keep response times the same but keep the fire engines from driving around, you would either need to build a bunch of new ambulance-only stations, or give each crew an engine and an ambulance, or put a new ambulance and dedicated crew in each firehouse. Since no city wants to build new firehouses or hire new crews these days, and since a fire crew picking up from a medical run in an engine can immediately respond to a fire run, whereas a fire crew in an ambulance cannot, most cities send fire engines staffed by firefighter/EMTs to all fire or medical runs.

    That logic is so asinine that I won’t even respond to it.

  75. Amen, Greg. But there you have it: the convoluted world of “firefighter think.”

    Get rid of public employee paramedics and let the ambulance companies handle the responsibility and the risk – at a fraction of the cost.

    Let the hose jockeys sit on their thumbs between the once every two month fires.

    1. Hey, why didn’t we think of that? Then you can pay the SAME number of guys the SAME amount, and get LESS service for your money. And, before you suggest cutting down the number of firefighters, remember that the homes and businesses in your city only get the best insurance rates if you have a certain number of firefighters per thousand residents.

      1. Insurance actuaries aren’t fools. Actually they are pretty smart and, unlike most city councilmembers, are not bamboozled by your emotion and arguments and illogic.

        I’m willing to take my chances.

  76. As usual you missed (or pretended) to miss the point.

    Once we realize how few fires there really are, we will chum 50% of you for starters.

    Oh, glorious day!

  77. While I have not looked at the link Sean provided, I will though, but I want to commend him on providing supporting evidence to his claims. It helps to keep the discussion civil.

    1. Oliver-

      A civil discussion based on a cartoon
      you guys made that’s laced with profanities?

      Stop clowning around.

      You stopped listening to logic a long
      time ago. Your pretending to want to
      listen to civil discussion is wearing thin, since
      as evidenced by your prior responses, you
      clearly are not interested in anything that
      contradicts your biased thinking.

      1. Logic? You goons refuse to admit that your pay and benefits are completely out of alignment with who want to, and who could do your job.

        Instead we get emo pleas and lurid descriptions, and fanciful recreations (i.e. climbing across icy roofs!), and outright lies about actuarial data the State’s own retirement system has debunked as myth. Then we get veiled threats about how we sure are gonna need you when something goes wrong, which is not the point and not even necessarily true.

        I have no intention of being “civil” to you people. You are stealing from us via the hand-picked assclowns you set up for public office – many of whom (think Bankhead, McKinley) are retired “public safety” employees many of whom who got to retire early and run for office – while everybody else was working ’til their nearly 70 to qualify for full Social Security.


        Oh, and: I am Hero and Deserve.

        1. Joe,

          I’d like to thank you for letting us all know how much you hate democracy.

          Nothing stopping you from running for public office and righting all the wrongs you believe are oppressing you.

      2. Excellent reply. This is laced with profanity and they claim to keep their discussions civil. They are nutty

  78. Ok Sean, I have read your many posts and am offended. In my line of work discussing confidential patient information would get you fired. Good thing that your union protects incompetent individuals, useless, and the competent as though they are all the same. Sean you should be fired for the patient stories you have disclosed on this public site. Oh where do you work again. I see 20 times more patients and see alot more than any firefighter while making just a fraction of what you make. Let me guess you are a failed trial lawyer(right) who could make more money as a firefighter. I do respect what firefighters do; I don’t agree giving your voice over to a self-serving union whose is all about money. You can’t blame the firefighters for taking the money that says free take what you need( ah he’ll take what u want too). The union bosses who have no idea what the job is are getting rich off the backs of others.

    1. You are correct that sharing personally identifiable patient information is inappropriate. From my posts, you can identify my patients as male Americans, and I don’t really think that qualifies as personally identifiable information. If you see 20 times more patients than I do, but still make just a fraction of what I make, you should really go to your city website and make note of when they give the firefighter test next.

  79. Anothe thing in one post you discussed how hard it is to get a job as a firefighter because of the limited amount of openings and the many applicants. Why do we need overtime if there are so many out of work qualified individuals? Why not hire more and create a safer working conditions. Also, firefighters do not approach a scene whenever there is a possibility of an armed individual( police officers do). It’s called scene-safe. I also don’t see why you believe your pension and medical should be covered unless you actually paid into a retirement plan; union dues don’t count you can choose to donate your dues instead of paying them to the union. Of course you will be retaliated against by the union who covers your job. When’s the last time your union asked you who you were going to vote for before they declAred publicly that the 900 firefighters and this firefighter union support Joe shmo. They take your voice away, not give u a voice. I can speak for myself as can each of you, so why give your voice away to a corrupt organization?

    1. Ask any city council why they don’t cut down on overtime by hiring more firefighters. The answer is that it is cheaper to pay an existing firefighter to work for a day than to hire another firefighter and pay another set of benefits. So overtime actually saves your city money. In my union, the membership votes on every political endorsement, and I imagine that’s pretty common. In contrast, when were you asked to approve political donations by a corporation you worked for, invested in, or purchased products from? I thought not…

      1. Thanks for showing the problem. You are correct that it saves money to use overtime instead of hiring more. However you miss the forest for the trees, the benefis are too much. They should be lower and then more hired instead. In fact if we get rid of the union contract and its onerous work rules we may not even have to hire more.

  80. Sean :
    It’s an old adage in the law that a necessitous man is not truly a free man. This means that, when one side to a negotiation literally cannot afford NOT to accept the other side’s offer, the resulting contract does not necessarily establish the “fair market price” for the goods or services being exchanged.
    Applying this to the employment realm, if management can afford to tell any individual worker to accept a lower wage or leave, knowing that it can easily replace that worker with a more desperate one, then the resulting wage is not negotiated — it is simply dictated.
    If management must instead negotiate wages with all its workers collectively, and furthermore must negotiate in good faith — not just a sham negotiation for window-dressing — then the resulting wage is truly negotiated between willing parties, therefore a “fair market price” for the labor being performed.
    It was through these good faith negotiations that labor unions essentially built the American middle class.
    But now, as fewer American companies actually negotiate their wages, and more simply impose them, middle class earnings are no longer rising against inflation. If this continues long enough, the middle class will be a thing of the past.
    And the sad part is this is a particularly short-sighted victory for American companies. Henry Ford was smart enough to know that he had to pay his workers enough so they could afford to buy the cars they built. Once the middle class is gone, who will buy all the shiny new stuff that American companies make?

    Once the middle class is gone who will be there to pay for the public sector pensions?

    1. Exactly, Sean you cannot apply the same logic to bargaining when dealing with a for profit entity. A union leader was even caught saying now we have a chance to elect our own boss. That is the problem and why there should not be unions in the public sector. It is a very simple concept if you brain is not fogged by a bias.

  81. Sean the difference is the corporation never claimed me as one of the votes a candidate would get a vote from. The corporation never said they give me a voice. They( those who I work for) encourage my opinions not discourage. The union tries to tell us who to vote for. The Corp never came out and said our employees support John doe. Like I said I respect firefighters, their union is a problem, their benefits should be reasonable and paid into out of their individual pockets. We the people can no longer support this kind of corruption. Check out the countries where unions rule; they are even worse off than we are. Unions should be eliminated from all public sector jobs. There was a time unions were actually needed, but now they are all about the easy life for their officials, they are also about defunding America and spreading their socialistic view of the world. In a union it does not matter how well or poorly u do your job; just how long you’ve been their(socialism). You can not be fired unless you exceed egregious conduct; even then the union will stand behind you even though you are wrong. If I font do my job correctly I will be looking for a new job( this is how it should be survival of the fittest and all)

    1. I see you have resorted to using the word “corrupt.”

      I always take the term corruption to imply something illegal.

      Where is the illegality?

      1. “I always take the term corruption to imply something illegal.”

        I always take it to mean something with rainbows. Where are the rainbows?

  82. Mother goose has no intelligent argument, so he attacks the messenger instead of the message. Go get an education, namecalling is a crutch for the undereducated with a lack of creativity. Next he’ll bring a bat.

  83. Sean, you are not supposed to divulge any actual information about a patient, the situation, name, or event; you did and therefore violated the patience confidentiality as guaranteed by the HIPPA set of regulations. Also, place of employment never counted me as an individual who would support a particular candidate. I have my own voice(& brain) I can without prejudice(either way) decide who I want to vote for without some organization telling me who to vote for. This union corruption must end. Unions were once about conditions but are now only about money. Firemen are not bad they are just corrupted by money(as any one is who is around free money). You should have to pY into your retirement fund like the rest of us. I work around and with firemen everyday. Oh are they on the clock when they are in the street(obstructing traffic) asking for donations(taking away from those other noble street bums–the homeless.

  84. Just to set the record straight, no all firefighters retirement
    /pension funds are from taxpayer money. It’s important to know that some departments fund their own pension out of their own pay for 30 years such as L.A.City and L.A.County fire departments. They don’t get the 3 at 50 years old. This is a stein on the system but instead of trying to take it all away from them perhaps there is another way, it’s easy to make a statement that every firefighter has a big truck, boat and house on the river etc.. But that is not the case. Another FACT is that it is definitely cheaper for a department to give the overtime shifts to the guys and girls already hired, it’s very expensive to hire train and provide medical care for for each and every position, but the general public doesn’t understand that. It is a great sacrifice to be away from home for so long. I think what needs to happen is for the guys who get public pensions, to contribute some money from their own pockets, not an amount that will sink your ships but what ever it takes to make the difference. But I don’t think it’s reasonable to make such a major cut in a person life half way through or more, I know times are tough, but I think that one of the reasons these men and women became firefighter IS because of the financial stability, when time are good and people are making loads more than firefighters, no one complains. Are they do have to deal with some pretty horrible shit that most people couldn’t handle. Don’t worry folks… It’s all o.k. We will make it through. And Sipowicz! You are pathetic but that’s for the laughs! Your killing me!

  85. And Sean, that fellow with the acute Mi who you did the basics of ACLS protocol on( which any emt/icu/or er nurse could do and this is an easy protocol to follow) did you tell him that your union was stealing his daughters and Americas future? I too have had thankyou cards from patients who would have died with out intervention(note I did not say my intervention, as any medical professional who is competent could do the same thing. We are not complaining about your heroics, we are complaining about the use of these so called heroics to steal Americas future. I’m sure you are good at your job, but you are not irreplaceable, there are plenty of out of work individuals who could do the same job( it’s not hard) if your pay and others were not so high(well not neccassarily your pay, but your ridiculous benefits) then maybe the unemployment rate would not be so high and we could higher more firefighters and police officers and make your job safer(ha) the police officers job safer and the public safer. Because when more people are working there is less crime any way and with mote police presence the crime rate could go even further down. It’s not just firefighters it’s many of the over paid public sector jobs. It’s completely out of control. Can’t you see through the bs and notice that. America just had a heart attack save America,hero.

    1. Hmm… I’m trying to remember if I mentioned to that fellow that I’m stealing his daughters’ (and America’s) future… No, I don’t think it came up. But yes, the ACLS protocol is not rocket science, but it’s the rare ER or ICU nurse (whose salary is competitive with ours) who runs a code and then an hour later is advancing a hoseline up a smoky stairwell, or climbing a ladder to enter and search a third floor room. Our job demands a unique skill-set, and provides a unique social utility, and I really don’t understand how you think you can replicate it at fast-food wages.

  86. Corruption is the kick backs given to the politicians which the union supported, are you here actually defending this corrupt union. That’s all you took from that, get with the tomes Marcus welch( who by the way would probably not support a union, because he was into what was right; I know he’s fictional). Dave you are right that the firefighters should not be the tavern of our disdain(they are not my target), but their ridiiculos unions are and should be. Many fire departments are completely volunteer and they are successful departments. In every field the training is expensive so stop using that. My education was expensive as well. I did not subscribe to the union which represents some of my co- workers; I choose to donate what would be my dues to a worthy cause.

  87. Yea Dave my typing is not great either. Nipsey the rainbows are now a bumper sticker stolen by a group supporting their particular cause.

  88. I see Marcus you have resorted to trying to tear down those who oppose you. Dousch yea I went there. My argument is just as good as yours. You&@&@&&$&.

  89. What’s wrong with you people. Firemen are heroes and should be worshipped by all of you peasants. Don’t call my fire department tonight you scummy pesants. We have an x-box tournament at the house with my brothers tonight. Who ever losses has to stay up all night and take all the calls. Fuck you rainbow.

  90. I’m not talking about your salary(but I don’t get paid to sleep, I do get on call pay but at just 25% of my normal rate and I’m not a public worker; if we are not profitable then we go out of business). Your union just gives mote kick backs to the politician your union advertised for. You guys operate under water. You lose more money than you save, up until the mid 70s this was not true. Also quit patting yourself on the back I’ve done your job. Dealing with the emotional issues in a hospital is much more challenging. You guys get to rush in and be the hero and if you made mistakes nobody knows. Even if hospital workers are the best ever we have to deal with angry families who are completely unrealistic. We are not talking about your job, the reimbursement is more than America can afford, you can say the same thing about certain hospitals and there vendors who charge 10 times what something is worth. I work 4 days a week and make 60k a year, I am on call 7 days a week(sometimes I make 70k depends on how often I have to go in for the emergency surgery). But if I want to retire I must pay into my 401k, if I don’t then I will have to keep working, I have given a lifetime of service but am not entitled to anything I did not myself pay into.

    1. So Bill, you are a nurse and don’t make 100k. Because if I remember correctly that was one of the arguments put forth to justify their compensation. I bet you don’t even get a defined benefit plan either. Oh I know the solution, just join a union. Oh wait you work for a company that must generate a profit so it wouldn’t help anyway.

      The entitlement mentality is really amazing isn’t it. Perhaps we should all pitch in so they can get psychological help for all the programming their union has done to their big heads. They really believe they are super special heroes who are superior to the rest of us.

    1. OK, that’s enough for me on this thread. Now, on the toughest days and nights on my job, I can take comfort in the thought that it could always be worse. I could be working for the people of Fullerton.

  91. Firemen are noway no how worth more than a quality nurse( admittedly many nurses aren’t worth much either). When it comes to medicine fire fighters are defiantly amateurs. Emergency situations they do fine in, but dealing with the day to day of the patient care and having great attention to detail helps to keep a patient alive long enough to make it back home. I don’t think I should get better benefits or Joe Sipowicz
    3 wks, 5 days ago pay, but

    they should get less. On another note I was watching Dora today( with the kids) and she was driving a fire truck, I guess she– as a fire fighter– had nothing better to do than drive around and emergently provide
    water to the plants. Well then she ran out of gas and just neede fuel and filled up. I just thought it was funny that no one thought about in reality whose paying for that gas, I’d like to make a Dora episode about whose paying the bills and whose just wandering around running up the bills.

  92. Sorry about that, that was supposed to be pay not anything about Joe , my phone cut and pasted something when I sat it down.

  93. What’s really sad here is that when children are asked what do you want to be when you grow-up the answer is often I want to be a fireman or policeman. This profession has a noble history, currently it is a misused organization. The unions have taken this noble profession and turned it into something ugly. I think they said let’s take these American heroes and manipulate them and turn it into a money making ( for the workers and the union leadership). After all who could refuse these noble heroes. Attention firefighters you have been brainwashed, corrupted, and turned into something ugly. Maybe if you guys had more education, you would not fall for the line you guys are heroes and deserve much more. That’s bs true heroes look for meager restitution no bragging(Sean) but a humble approach. You should be ashamed, try volunteering and working for a living instead.

    1. Do you think unions drop down to earth in spaceships and take over unsuspecting workers? Firefighters created their unions, to negotiate for fair wages, hours and working conditions. In light of the comments on this post, it’s a good thing we did, or we’d be crawling into fires wearing blue jeans, dragging a garden hose, and getting paid minimum wage to do it.

  94. Actually firemen had nothing to do with the creation of their union; it was organized crime who came up with this. As the police was cracking down on the strong arm taking over a business by strong arming the owners of shops the mob decided to find a new way to extort money, so they began strong arming the workers , some of these workers( just like slaves and inmates) began wandering how they could live without the union( slaves needed the way of life they had been born into& long term inmates need the bars). And then it evolved from there. Organized crime is still a part of it they just stay behind the scenes and try not to be noticed. Who thinks Obama is actually in charge, I think he is a front man who receives his orders from those behind the scenes criminals and extremists.

  95. dont worry i think youve made allot of friends that would help you put out any fire and there closer than any fire station

  96. why dont you people that are making these comments just shut the hell up and go find a 2nd job and quit belly bitching

  97. James :
    Here we go with the hero thing again. You guys (firemen) are trying hard to defend the indefensible. Not just the pensions…the pay and medical benefits too…are totally outrageous and have been obtained via years of threats and coersion against our spineless politicians (who voters stupidly vote out based on their public safety union endorsements). If you compared the training, education level, danger, etc of a firefigher’s job to other lines of work, there is absolutely no justification whatsoever for this nonsense. And no, most of us are not sitting around our parent’s home smoking dope. We are the hardworking private sector employees who PAY ALL YOUR GODDAMN SALARIES AND BENES! And that is why we’re pissed off.

  98. Well even though I don’t like the pension benefits for free and the rate some are paid for the little some fire departments actually serve a purpose. I do much agree with FDNY. Firefighters see what nobody should ever have to see. I for the most respect the job they do. Sure we can’t afford them butcwe should not personally attack them; just their unions. My brother- in- law( who was the best person I ever knew) was there for the collapse of the towers. Although he did not die there he did die because of the diseases he inherited from the dust. ( he never smoked was very healthy a 6 mos later needed a lung transplant and died 8 months after; he was 42). He was in the air force and was immediately deployed to assist. He was a decorated air force master sergeant, and a kind and gentle man.

  99. My point being firefighters were not the only ones there, and were not the only responders who died there. I know the ones who brought this up were not the firefighters. I am not complaining about the firefighters, just their union, pension and their short sightedness when it comes to these issues.

  100. Firefighter vs tax accountant.

    According to the comments to date: A person can become a firefighter by graduating from high school, then going to two years of college and taking a four month training course. For this “extreme” hardship you get to do a really cool job where you work a few days a week, get great benefits and a guaranteed retirement.

    To become a tax accountant you now have to go to five years of college, then pass the CPA exam (many say this is harder than the bar exam in most states). Before you can get your credential, you have to have approximately two years experience in both tax and auditing (these are different areas of accounting). Depending on your location, the starting salary is similar to a firefighter. For this you are expected to work a minimum of 40 hours a week with a sharp increase during tax season (January to April 15). You are often on salary so there is no overtime. You commonly have an employer contribution to your 401K, but no pension.

        1. He says no such thing. In fact he laid his tale of woe as to why he deserves a higher salary because he works long hours and took a few more tests.

          I’m thinking you don’t comprehend very well. Did you get passed a 4th grade reading level.

          BTW, the only person on here claiming firefighters are heroes is you. None of the firefighters have said any such thing.

  101. I am a retired, disabled firefighter, and find this video to be full of lies, we do pay for our pensions, like you pay social security, the pension is not negotiated by any union but by the various states laws, I don’t know any firefighter who makes over 100,000 unless they are some kind of chief. do your homework before writing this sort of bulls**t

  102. “the pension is not negotiated by any union but by the various states laws, I don’t know any firefighter who makes over 100,000 unless they are some kind of chief. do your homework before writing this sort of bulls**t”

    Ha. Hahahahaha.

    Too bad you retired in 1956.

  103. and those who make over $100K work a ton of overtime which means less free time with family and friends… and most of that money doesn’t even come from the city (for example Pasadena guys get paid by the Rose Bowl for their OT or from companies filming in the city)

  104. Wks,

    Without any details it is hard to respond. Where do you work, how long have you worked there, etc?

    Read the video description, it is directed at California public employees.

  105. Steve I would rather have a emt and an ambulance show up, sending the fire department to a scene where someone is I’ll is a waste of money. Firefighters should concentrate on fighting fires( both of them which occur per month) and major car wrecks which may need a difficult extraction). Like I said firefighters are ameutuers when it comes to healthcare.last I checked those fire tricks can’t take patients. And a ambulance can get through traffic faster than that big truck moving through narrow residential streets.

    1. First, fire trucks show up because thats what firemen are provided to drive. Second, the fire department gets a call for an ill person. We show up and its a 400 lbs male in full arrest on the third floor. It takes a minumum of 6 people to run a “Code” without any surprises. I guess we could wait for the first ambulance to show up and request HELP!!! But by the time it arrives, the poor patient has lost so many heart and brain cells all the fire department has to do is assist the coroner with the body down the stairs. Get the picture??

  106. As a white Irish kid from Brooklyn, I can only refer to what the neighborhood used to call fire and police jobs – “white man’s welfare”. It is a given that these are elements of danger to the work and it does take bravery to perform. However as a part time security person for private events that worked with many “retired” (younger than 55) cops, the big joke among them was “what was your accident?” This referred to what “accident” let them go out on an early retirement (tax-free) @ 75% of their salary.

    I respect the job, the people and their bravery but the unions have hijacked our future. How about a competitive base pay with differential similiar to combat pay when they have to deal with extreme situations (burning buildings, hostage situations, etc.)

  107. Hey Bill,

    Many fire departments have their own ambulances. The people who are on the ambulances are firefighters and either emt or paramedic. The only difference in the emt/paramedics that are from a private company is that they dont fight fire.
    As far as you saying that we are ameutuers when it comes to healthcare, KISS MY ASS. I hope you never need us bc you be eating your words you pathetic bitch.

  108. Firefighters are defiantly amateurs in healthcare. In emergencies they do a very good job, but when it comes to the after emergency care they are clueless. This is why ambulances require a cct nurse for the transport of critically I’ll patients. As for the emt who ride in ambulances that’s fine but don’t call them emts and don’t have them show up wearing their fire gear( this is a joke, in my er we always laugh when they show up a’s though they are going to fight a fire while picking up the 88 year old complaining of shortness of breath). As for your lewd comment; I guess with your education level you cant do any better. Lewdness is a crutch for the unimaginative and weak minded individuals, but thank you for your comments. I know the first words that popped into your small mind, you have a chance to edit yourself before you hit send; not after.

  109. You are right, the lewd comment I made last night was uncalled for and I apologize. As for me being uneducated you are wrong. I am a college graduate. I chose this profession because I love it. Sitting at desk pushing paper sounds like a nightmare
    As for fire personel showing up in your er wearing turnout gear, that is something I have never seen. In my deptarment it against SOP to do so.
    As far as fire/ems personel being amateurs in the medical field you are right when comparing us to doctors. The two years it takes to become a medic isnt much compared to that of an er doctor. On the other hand there are many nurses I have delt with, that in a situation if they were to treat me I would run(by no means do I mean all nurses). In every profession you have the good and the bad.
    This blog bashing our profession makes me sick. I wish everyone of you would come and spend a day with us on the streets. Sure there is down time but when we work we WORK. There have been many times I havent been at the station for more than 2 hours the whole shift(that equals 22 hours of work in one day, the same amount of time most of you work in 3 days). Our job is not for everyone.
    I make a modest salary and will be able to retire after putting in 30 years of service. What is wrong with me having a decent retirement(which in my case is not a ton of money). Ohh yeah and neither me nor anyone in my department is part of a union.
    I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but, saying all firefighters are lazy and over paid is just not right. The public only sees us work when someone is having an emergency so I understand how the majority of you are uninformed. Many of you will never see us work and that is a good thing.
    Go to your local fire station Christmas day and share your feeling with the men/women on duty, I bet you will change your mind.

  110. Bill…First, fire trucks show up because thats what firemen are provided to drive. Second, the fire department gets a call for an ill person. We show up and its a 400 lbs male in full arrest on the third floor. It takes a minumum of 6 people to run a “Code” without any surprises. I guess we could wait for the first ambulance to show up and request HELP!!! But by the time it arrives, the poor patient has lost so many heart and brain cells all the fire department has to do is assist the coroner with the body down the stairs. Get the picture??

    1. There you go Steve. Justify the 99.99% by pointing to the .01%. Last I checked we dont send the SWAT team to evry call for service at the PD on the off chance a crazed maniac might be awaiting the arrival of the police.

      You will argue the issue no matter what the facts like those whores on the Sunday morning talk shows. You are unable to look in the mirror and see anything other than perfection. More than anything you are proving the point of the vidoe which is that the union zombie’s can not even have a sober discussion about the issue.

      The “I am hero and deserve” line is pretty much a shortened version of what guys like you spit out. No matter what, you will accept zero criticism and nothing could be improved at all in the fire service.

      Attitudes like yours from guys like you are causing a change in the way the average person thinks in this country. Meanwhile, congratulations on your self hypnosis skills, they are quite effective.

  111. I wasn’t a fireman? But I know bullsh*t! when I see it and hear it. Working only three days a week and getting 32 hours of overtime? Is that the allegation?

    Well let’s see. On 24 hour shifts, that would be 48 hours worked for the first two days. Now add 8 of those hours to the third 24 hour shift worked? And walla! 24 + 8 = 32 hours!

    It’s called math! Simple math! the kind they obvious didn’t teach this computer age bag of whiney piss mouth dweebs.

    Something else they don’t teach is FLSA (look it up dweebs) It says that “public safety employees are not entitled to overtime, until they exceed 172 hours in a 28 day period.

    Stay with me on this now….more math! 160 hours = 4 weeks work of 40 hour weeks. So then, add 12 hours to that to even qualify for overtime!

    So how about this whiney babies….what say you hop a freight to France and go see if they have room on one of their sugar teats for you. Maybe once they have provided for all their Muslims, there will be a little something left for you “artists.”

    In the mean time, those that actually work 30 years of life and death daily, providing a service to the public? They deserve their pensions.

  112. Wks, you are correct, I don’t mean to disrespect firefighters, the unions and the wasteful spending unions lead to are the target of my irritation. I have a union where I work but I opt out and refuse any benefit it could offer; I pay for my own retirement. Everyone should have to pay into their own retirement. You are also correct about many of the nurses; I work with many I would not allow to take care of my dog( I see it first hand)

  113. Iceman, yes we can all do the math, it’s the sleeping while on the clock I take issue with, firefighters in city areas should be on 12 hour shifts( and awake alert and ready in case they Re needed). You are also a pathetic bigot. Nobody is talking about religion except you. I have no problem with a reasonable pension which they pay into. All fire dept and stations should have their own ambulances instead of just the trucks.

  114. Steve, try managing that 400lb man past the few minutes to hours you see them, a’s far a’s I should try working a’s a firefighter; I HAVE done your job, you would not like to do my job.

    PATHETIC(or anonymous same person) you are pathetic; you got your name right).

    ABC: I disagree about privatizing the fire dept( too many chances for conflict of interest).

    Anonymous: more than just firefighters died at ground zero, there were other responders like the air force who died there.

  115. Many firefighters are second, third, fourth generation. Yup the lines are blocks long for those jobs. Try to get one of those jobs if you don’t have family or influential friends to help you. My guess 75-80% go to children of the heroes!

  116. My Knee Hurts Too :It’s crazy. Just plain crazy… to keep going down this path.

    I never could figure out why Firefighters feel the need to adverstise to everyone who they are with the stickers on their cars. Not just their cars, but their wive’s, kid’s, etc. Whop really cares??? To me its a sign of how over-inflated their opinion is of themselves.

  117. @English Major. Yeah, got to watch out for those feral apostrophes ….they’re killers.

    What appalls me is the “alot” bit! Aaaaarrrrrgggggghhhh!

    I certainly missed my retirement goal(s) …..didn’t plan on four daughters, two ex-wives and two bankruptcies. Oh well ….I’m 76 and don’t really give a fuzzy rat’s ass any longer!

    My thanks to Franklin D. Roosevelt for the lovely Social Security benefit plan. Without it (less than $1600.00 monthly), I’d probably be eating dirt.

    So, to all the “heroes” (even those in little cities such as Pismo Beach [perhaps three real ‘fire’ calls last year and whose firefighters qualify for the ‘retire at 50 with 30 years retirement program]), bite me. I’m jealous. And, yes, I have two relatives who are fire fighters and three who are police officers. I’m still jealous ….y’all can really bite me!

    Stay well.

  118. But bob they earned it. It is your fault you didn’t save 2 million for your retirement. Doesn’t everybody do that.

  119. @Oliver Stone. So, Stones …..love your sarcasm!

    I live in Newport right across from Gelson’s Market on San Miguel. Paras and engines all always passing by ….lots of older people around here – there’s a Lutheran retirement home up Pacific Park and NBFD have a ton of med assist calls. At least, the NBFD is considerate at night …..if there’s a late night call, it’s a code 2 – no siren. How sweet!

    Fires? Don’t really know how many real “fires” these guys fight …I’d say few and far between.

    Met a number of these guys (and one female) and they’re all very nice kids. Smug, but nice.

    stay well, Stones. Love your posts. Hate that friggin’ Sean’s stuff. He can bite me, too.

  120. Ill throw my 2cents in.
    I was a firefighter for 25 years…… YES some stations sleep thru the night YES some firefighters have off duty jobs YES some get huge overtime checks. BUT what really pisses me off is that all you have to do to promote is take some B.S. classes and a bullshit exam that you are given the answers to. Now you have an incompetent batt chief in charge of real fires and WHEN they blow it and make bad calls…. buildings burn, wildland is destroyed and lives are put in danger. NOW here is the clencher your NOT held responsible!! Nothing will ever be done about this it has happened for decades and will continue……..

  121. Tagger :
    Joe, you are a real piece of shit. Does it make you feel good to sit behind a computer and blog about the same old bullshit. You are just a jealious hater who has no real clue what it means to be a firefighter. Remember, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. You have been tagged and identified my friend.


  122. Can’t we all just get along?

    Thanks to my cuz, Rodney, for that profound statement! Here’s lookin’ at you, Rod.

    P.S. Cuz Rodney ……all you had to do was lie in the prone position and those thugs wouldn’t have beaten you any longer.
    But, no-o-o-o-o-o, you were f***ed up on meth. What a dipshit! Now, a rich dipshit, but dipshiit, nonetheless.

    To all: just kidding about the ‘cuz’ part. Not kidding about the “can’t we all just get along” part, though. Jeez! There’s so much hate out there! Sip/Sean and others ….get over it….it is what is f***ing is!

    I’m pi**ed at those City of Bell jerks ….they got fat salaries and bitchin’ pensions. And?????? So f***ing what? Who really cares and what can you do about it even if you care? Zip, zero, nada.

    Gerhardt had it right ……..WHAT IS, IS.

    Send a nice email to some serviceman/woman and get over your vitriol.

    Do something creative instead of blasting firemen (Sean …sorry, firefighters)/cops/city councils/mayors/CEO’s/etc.

    Firefighters are committed to do a good job …..I don’t give a crap what they make nor do I give a crap what you make nor do I give a crap what anyone makes! I am a tad envious of big salaries, though. But ……what can I do about it?

    WHAT IS, IS.

    So long, all you lovely people. I’m going to send an ecard to a young BAM (for those of you who were not in the Marines, that’s a female Marine) who’s on duty in Falujah.

  123. I work in the area of employment and labor law as an government (city) attorney. Joe, you are absolutely right – from some of the responses, I can see you hit a nerve! It should be about public service not overtime, pension and second jobs…. My brother is a volunteer fire fighter on LI NY for a small town. He doesn’t get any of the stuff these guys get! Everytime you mention volunteer fire fighters in my area, there is a great huge push back – threat to all the goodies these guys get!

    1. I live on long island and ask your brother about the pension he gets for being a volunteer. They have better equipment and more perks than the city fire department. It’s sick!


  125. @Steve ….WHOA! Steveo – pretty harsh words!!

    Any proof with which to back up your libelous statement? Like photos of Cal Fire personnel throwing matches or other sources of ignition into the brush? That would be great!

    And ….what was your “experience” with “them”? Do you wield a mighty Pulaski? Back-hoe experience? Chain saws? Or did you abet in setting fire to acreage?

    Interested to know ….as I’m sure others are, too.

  126. All you public employees that hide behind the union thugs are going to get a “Ross Perot” haircut soon. Trust me, it’s coming. You need to live in the real world, all the perks and bennies are going to get adjusted to private sector standards, and if you don’t like it find another job… it’s just gonna be tough shit!

  127. @mardawg. You won’t live long enough to see this happen!

    WHAT IS, IS and “wishing” won’t make it go away.

    If you’ve got “perks” and “bennies” in your private sector job, good on you, dawg.

    I’m 76 and have never had any benefits in any of my private sector jobs …..the friggin’ jobs never lasted long enough! Such is the “private world” of the savings and loan/banking industry.

    The only “perks” I can recall were at California Federal Savings and Loan and I got to eat in the “executive” dining facility at the mid-Wilshire office. Since I was there only once or twice a month, not a big deal, for sure. And, don’t let me forget, I got a $150.00 car allowance for about eight months.

    My “choices” in a career field could have been better, I guess ….but I had a family to feed and couldn’t wait to go to work.

    Again, at 76, I really don’t give a fat rat’s ass what anyone “earns” ….I just get pissed about it. It’s friggin’ futile to worry so much about it …..so, screw it – it’s Miller time!

    P.S. I liked Perot! Smart little fart. Those friggin’ charts did him in …..and the fact that he’s logical and didn’t have his head up his ass didn’t impress the libs, that’s for sure.

    Still ….I liked your comment. To no avail, but liked it. On second thought, I DO hope you live long enough to see the thugs get their just desserts!

  128. Seems to me that there is a lot of anger that is being pointed towards Firefighters and other EMS. Maybe some of this anger should be directed towards Wall Street. This is were the real problems started.

  129. It will NEVER change as the Unions have this state in a stranglehold I spent 30 years in the fire service and ITS ALL TRUE and theres more MUCH More! If there are any ghost writers out there…..LETS WRITE A BOOK!

  130. @Doug. If it will never change, why bother with a book? What’s that going to do? Make the unions say, “Hey, Doug’s right. Let’s reformulate our pension plan(s) for firefighters to conform to the private sector pension plan.”

    Fat friggin’ chance, Doug.

    Advice from an old dog …..(born 1934)…..fuggedahboudit and enjoy your pension and retirement. You’re actually too old to care.

    C’mon down to Newport ….I’ll buy you a beer at the American Legion and we can discuss women and sports. Much better topics for the psyche than this crap.

    And ….Sip – advice to you is the same. It will NEVER, EVER change in your lifetime. You’re getting ulcers from all the stress – relax.

    maj sky king at gmail dot com

  131. Ohh I am enjoying retirement, the fireservice is just a small part of my book, no ulcers here. I had to retire early on an injury so I must make up the difference buy working 6-7 days a week (internet sales). Thanks anyway for the offer.

  132. this post has gone national. QYB!! Not all firemen are on the gravy train folks! I’m a firefighter after 11 years on the job. I make less than 52k a year. I pay over $600 a month in medical. No countless hours of overtime. Yes there is a great deal of downtime. There is also a great deal of work time, we train regularly.. Even on our days off we are training, taking classes etc.. No handouts.. And yes I am a combat vet!

  133. Firefighters are not heros or anything special
    all they do is rip off the tax payers, It is time for the tax payer to wake up and help put a stop to the over spending of these so called hereos

  134. @Pookie. Hey Pooks …..great idea and may happen in the future – like in fifty years or so. It’ll never happen in your lifetime.

  135. All these posts are really Tony posing as dudes all over the country reading this blog. Oh ya, and the 100,000 hits on this post alone are Tony looking at it every 10 seconds.

    No one reads this blog. They cant because if they did…… I gotta go, my watch commander is coming in the room

  136. @therealjohnholmes ….very friggin’ funny! Oops ….I gotta’ go – it’s time for our watch party at Blackie’s!

  137. I realize that there is a need for Firefighters and that yes they do die in the line of duty. Someone mentioned the 383 that died 9/11 and we all feel for them and their families…but the same guy that mentioned those 383 did not mention the other 4000. As a country we are going broke…if you look at our public servants they are over paid, over benefited and they complain about how much overtime they do or don’t get. Our system with public employees needs to be overhauled so that they are equal with everybody else in America. For the guy who slams my post…fuck you buddy!!!

  138. When the economy was flourishing the wages and benefits of the public sector were not an issue. As the economy worsened they became public enemy #1. History always repeats itself…think back in time you’ll see it’s true.

  139. The fire and police bashers on this blog are the typical myopic folks who don’t see the forest for the trees.

    No one is getting rich working for the government. Millionaires are made contracting with the government.

    But keep concentrating on the small fry. The real money is still taking theirs and laughing at how much attention you lavish on government employees.

    1. To Joe Sipodork, Your’re probably this 150lb skinny nerd who got bullied as a child with no athletic bone in his body. I know you don’t have the guts to confront a cop or FF in person to discuss your pathetic comments, let alone do the physically demanding job. You are a pathetic worm who hides behind your computer because you don’t have the nerve to do it in person. Your just a jealous pussy!! And no I’m not a fireman…

      1. Im a 230 lb 6’2″ white male who took the “lottery” test to become a FF. It really is a lottery. Go to the Long Beach Conmvention center with 30,000 applicants 3x a day for two days to pick 4 individuals and tell me its’ not a lottery! And by the way I pathetically bench over 300lbs and can run the mile in 6 min. I can definately say Im faster than a doughnut cop and most fireman.

        1. Clint, It doesn’t matter how fast you can run or bench press, the physical ability portion is just one phase of the testing process. You have to score in the high 90’s on the written and oral interview (especially when your competing against thousands of people. My brother is a FF and it took him at least 4 years to get hired and he tested with at least 25 depts. It’s not a lottery, you just have to be at the top of your game test day.

    2. You prove 4thSDO’s point with your response.

      Firefighters make a good middle class income.

      Government employees make make six digits. Government contractors make millions.

      You prove your own lack of ambition has given you a jaded perspective on what it means to be wealthy.

      Here’s a question. How many firefighters qualify to own a median priced home in Sunny Hills? Even with their overtime pay.

      I’m betting it isn’t many if any.

  140. I worked 26 years in the fire service and was medically retired for my knee. I do not make these outragous sums of money you are talking about. Unions suck, I agree and it’s the cities that agree to the contracts. If you could get a sweetheart deal from your employer would you turn it down? I don’t think so.
    Cal PERS is self funded so leave these guys out of the arguement. Cal PERS invests and self funds it’s retirements.
    Daily routines at the station isn’t sitting around playing checkers and petting the dog. The FD does fire inspections of businesses, train and drill, study the latest in technology. The cleaning of the apparatus also allows for a detailed inspection of the life safety equipement that you will depend on when you F-up, get sick or injured, catch fire or otherwise suffer an emergency that requires specialized knowledge and training to mitigate.
    Mr. Taxaccountant, you have to know the tax codes, very complicated. A FF must be proficient and knowledgable in at least 60 professions. We must be EMTs, chemists, know construction, electrical, vechicles, high angle rescue, weather specialist/predicters, you get the picture. Last but not least you must possess the ability to walk into a sitution you KNOW you may not walk out of.
    We are not heros, we are doing a calling, not a job. We are only heros to those we affect in a positive way but saving their life or the life of a loved one or giving our life trying.
    Pension reform is needed, but next time you think FF’s have a cushy job, especially here in So. CA. Stay in your home and defend that home when given an evacuation notice in the face of a wildland fire. We defend your homes and we don’t even know you. It’s our job, our calling. We run into situations when others are running out, remember that. No guarantees we come out. NOBODY becomes a firefighter to get rich.
    FYI according to PERS average life span after a service retirement is 5 years.

  141. RetiredFF,

    Give me a credible link to back your 5 years of retirement claim, and I will apologize and remove all the videos.

    CalPers is self funded. Sounds to me that you just sit back and take all the propaganda as gospel. Unlike you, I am curious and like to verify such claims with facts, and I cannot find any to support your claims. Even Calpers has said that they are gonna raise the rates to munis to cover the deficit. That means more taxes for all the rest of us.

  142. Wow… not very one-sided is it?
    This guy does not know all the facts… what an ass.
    I have back pain every waking moment… not because Im 50 but because I had a concrete ceiling collapse on me. had to lift 300 lbs patients, drag extremly heavy hoses and laddrrs… Who ever made this must thave tried to get on the fire dept, and was unable to past the test. Angy, lieng little man.

    Oh and that 100K salery came at 33.00 an hour. Do the math. how many sleepless hours were we away from our wives and family to make that money… there were no gifts we worked every hour for it.

  143. @Steve ….kinda’ obvious you work(ed) at a hot house. Most people (I’m not included as I don’t give a s**t what people make) are upset about city, county, state and some fed employees making a ton of money in retirement.

    Here, in California, the retirement program is a great program ….especially for fire/sheriff/pd employees.

    Here’s the deal ….I live in Newport Beach and I would venture to say that in a year’s time, maybe, just maybe, a ‘real’ fire a month – 12 a year – maybe. Could be twice that amount and it wouldn’t make that much difference. From a percentage standpoint, I would guess that 90% (or more) of calls are for medical assistance ….yet the department rolls a couple of engines to keep the para ambulance company. I’m sure there’s a “good” reason for rolling a “hook & ladder” to a retirement home for a “slip and fall” call ….the department can probably come up with a reason, for sure.

    Believe the crux of the matter is ff’s getting paid for “working out”, eating, sleeping, playing cards, watching TV or playing basketball. I’m not too sure I’ll ever understand it, either. At my age, 76, I regret not pursuing a career with the fire department after discharge from the military. So ….I am envious, but not to the degree of “hate” at the firefighters/paras who “work” in areas that have few calls. If I could do it, I sure as hell would.

    So, those peeps out there that are soooo upset, get a life!! I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again ….there’s not a thing you can do about it, so chill out. It’ll never change in your lifetime …..unless Armageddon hits in the near future and we all become toast.

    So, kudos to those who “are hero and deserve”. They’re the ones, like yourself, who sacrifice family life to drag 100 pound doughnuts through buildings and up stairs, don’t know if when they go in, they’ll be able to come out, rescue pets from burning buildings (and trees), donate their time to charitable causes and are generally nice, unassuming people.

    And screw all the wannabes!

    That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it.

    P.S. Here’s a ’cause celebre’ for all the “Joe Sipowiczs” ….I know the “retired” sheriff for San Diego County ….went to high school with the guy – Bill Kolender. Gets “retirement” from the San Diego PD (was COP), retirement from a private company (was Director of Security) and, now, retirement from SD County as Sheriff. So ….the guy’s at least a “double-dipper) and is probably getting at least 200K a year in retirement “pay”. And, he earned every penny ….just by being there.

    Life’s good.

  144. Anonymous :Every fucking person who responded negatively to this should be fucking shot. Did we forget about the 343 fireman who were murdered in 911 trying to save peoples lives. Being a fireman is dangerous and exhausting. They work 24 hour shifts. That means 1 day for them is equal to 3 day’s of the average person sitting on their fat ass behind a desk. Time magazine posted that being a fireman is the most dangerous job in the world, next to a soldier in Iraq. The next time you want to bash a fireman because you didn’t have the balls or ability to actually become one, you should go say it to a firmans face instead of posting it on a computer like the little bitch that you are. You should all be ashamed of yourselves!

    You are either stupid or blind

  145. Bob King :@Pookie. Hey Pooks …..great idea and may happen in the future – like in fifty years or so. It’ll never happen in your lifetime.

    Unfortunetly you are right.Radical liberalness takes a long time to heal

  146. Doug :It will NEVER change as the Unions have this state in a stranglehold I spent 30 years in the fire service and ITS ALL TRUE and theres more MUCH More! If there are any ghost writers out there…..LETS WRITE A BOOK!

    Right on…like HMBFD

  147. Based on a lot of the threatening posts here, I’d say the guy who made the video “is hero”. The posts who scream that 9/11 guys died for us and that our house should burn us alive are not getting the point. No one is suggesting that in an emergency, emergency personnel aren’t appreciated and helpful. The video is saying (and it’s creepy how dead-on it captures the whole mentality of public-dole gluttons who bandy the word “safety”) that we don’t need 25 guys who lift weights and flirt with chicks on the beach during their average tough day, draining our financial resources, in order to respond to the occasional emergency that might be better served with two guys in small EMT response van. Some municipalities are actually implementing this plan. I spoke with a former LA Fire Captain (whom I play tennis with, incidentally) who told me that a lot of drugged-out bums basically call 911 to get free rides across town, and they always had to send the full squadron. Not to mention the large number of A-holes who call so that they can make a false claim in a fender bender. Look, bad stuff happens and this bloated, pension-heavy sham won’t make a big enough difference compared to the cost. I could have a sudden heart-attack at my desk but I don’t need to pay for 5 guys to sit next to me, flirting with my receptionist, telling me that I shouldn’t eat another cheeseburger, OK ? The cat is out of the bag. We can’t afford it any more and the sham has to stop. People are waking up and asking questions. It’s not OK to toss around, “I hope your kid dies in flames”. It’s a stupid thing to say, and to those people I say right back at you, I hope you die in a plane crash and that your remaining family is later destitute from paying excessive taxes, because no fire truck is going to help you there.

    1. You people are all blinded by this blog, it’s all the ILLEGAL Aliens, drug addict losers abusing the system and all the liberal social programs that are bankrupting the state and taxpayer, not the fire, police and teachers. Wake up!!!!

      1. And blaming illegal aliens when Fullerton Police Department’s PIO makes $130k a year? You’ll have to do a lot better than that!

        1. Joe, Your constantly talking about the burden on the taxpayer, you need to wake up and realize it is all the liberal social programs that are in fact bankrupting this state ( especially the illegals that get free healthcare, education and food stamps to name a few. And about the Fullerton PIO job, did you forget these cops protect you and I daily. They constantly deal with the scum of the earth and keep the taxpayer safe. You could of tested for the police force but I guarantee you don’t have the guts or balls to do the job!!!

  148. I love the liberal mantra: fire, police, teachers. But you left of the nurses fer God’s sake.

    These are the same unions that support every big government spending program and initiative. in California.

    Not even a good try anymore. We’re hip.

  149. We see this and get angry? forgetting about thoses worthless mouth blabbering, back stabbing, self entitled, self indulging; men and woman of our Congress and Senate. If you know what they get and are entitled to you will commit public suicide. But hey this is America, the harder you work the less you earn…

  150. NOTE TO ALL …..especially Sipowicz.
    New contract for OCFA ….basics:

    FFs begin contributing to their retirement in increments, from 2.5% in 2010 to 9% in 2013.

    Retirement formula changes from 3/50 to 3/55.


  151. TO #447 – MIKE

    I’m 76 and did not listen to my dad’s advice he offered in 1952.

    He said, “Son, you’ll be out of high school in a couple of months.” “I know you’re going in the Air Force, but you’ll be out in 1956, unless, of course, you decide to make it a career.”

    “With fortitude and the GI Bill, you’ll be out of college with a bachelor’s in 1960 or so.”

    “Go into politics …..city, county, state or federal.” “Those guys have got it made ….”work” is a four-letter word to them and, if you’re a fed, you only have to “work” five years to get full retirement benefits and life-time medical!”

    “Can you believe that?”

    Basically, I was just thinking of getting laid that night and paid no attention to dear old dad.

    I regret my choices.

    1. BK, “Basically, I was just thinking of getting laid that night and paid no attention to dear old dad”….. “thinking”? You mean you had your hand on your, well you know what I mean, at least you didn’t go in the military where you’re suppose to believe that somehow killing people is “work” or better worse a career.


      1. So, Bob Too …..I DID go into the military and enjoyed almost every minute of it! ‘Course I didn’t kill many people ….none, as a matter of fact, but still enjoyed it.

        When I first thought about enlisting, there was a “war” going on …not a “war”, per se, but a “Police Action”. Seems as if Congress never declared war on North Korea. So, yeah, people were dying for reasons unknown. The Korean “Police Action” was as stupid as the Viet Nam thing ….don’t think that was a “war” either. WTF were we doing in either of those countries? Defending America from Communist aggressors? Hardly. Simply the war machine and politics at “work”. Fuckin’ stupid, stupid, stupid!

        Anyway, I enlisted during the Korean thing, but the shooting had stopped. Had to “serve my country”, it was the thing to do in the early 50’s.

        Get this …..close to 43,000 combat deaths and MIA’s during the Korean piece of crap ….mostly cannon fodder, guys from 18-30 fuckin’ dead! And the Korean thing stilll isn’t over!

        Close to 60,000 combat deaths and MIA’s during the Viet Nam thing ….primarily same age group! What a fuckin’ waste!!

        And now …..Afghanistan? Jesus! This country will never, ever learn that it cannot be “Mommy” to the world ….”we’ll fix it and give you democracy!”

        The cess pools of Bosnia, Iraq, Gulf States, Afghanistan and Pakistan are just that ….mostly Stone-Age thinking ….for the most part, all the people are fugging Neanderthal-thinking!

        Personally, I’m too damned old to care about my being ….doesn’t matter much. But I do care about my kids, your kids, grandkids and all future spawn. We, IMHO, should take care of ourselves and if we’re attacked, bomb all those fucks BACK to the Stone-Age.

        I digressed a tad …..sorry about that. No, I’m not. That short rant made me feel much better! It’s Miller time!

        And, as I commented much earlier, I don’t care if FFs, cops, sheriffs make a couple hundred thousand a year. No one else should care either. Even if one DOES care, what the hell can one do about it? Nothing!

        So, be a cop, firefighter, paramedic, sheriff ….whatever! Or, don’t.

        So, Bob Too ….I enlisted AND got laid! Just didn’t make a career out of either.

        Stay well. This country is doomed!

  152. I would rather fire proof my house and have a good water supply than to waste tax dollars in such a way. This is not sustainable.

  153. It is unbelievable how distorted you people are to reality. You are all bent about pensions and unions when the real demons you should be chasing are ones who collect pensions for serving only one term for almost every government elected office. That includes alderman, senators , house , governors, mayors and others. Once most of these positions are held not only are they guaranteed a pension, but also insurance benefits for life. If you are going to sit on your ass and cry about this and be jealous then so be it. Maybe you wasted money going to school or stood in the wrong line for a job that sucks. Your own fault. Everyone can say that they have the hardest job. Crawl down into a smoky basement where you cant see your hand right in front of your face with extreme heat and have the room flashover with you in it. Your lazy fat-ass would shit yourself and wish you had your bullshit job. We open the pipe and grind out the most brutal moments of life while suffering steam burns that leave you scared for life. After the fires out get ready for the next one and shrug off the pain. All it takes is one incident like this where you earn your money for a lifetime. If you ever once lived through a situation where you had a brush with death you might understand until then don’t say shit. It is an over exagerated cartoon that you people got upset about. Don’t knck my job and get pissed off. If you had the balls to do it, and wanted these benefits that bad you should have signed up for it and gave it a shot.

  154. DAN ….at last a response from a guy who knows what the fuck he’s talking about!

    I especially like the ….”All it takes is one incident like this ……” part. You are so right.

    You may not be a hero, but you deserve.

    I hope your remarks put an end to all the friggin’ whiners and wannabes. But, it’s doubtful.

    Stay well.

  155. People in government are happy to see everyone all pointing the finger at each other never even noticing they keep sticking their hand back in the cookie jar taking more and more. They like the fact that they can keep all the sheep round up and distracted argiung amongst themselves instead. Wake up!!! Quit feeling sorry for yourself and quit letting them give everything away. Wait until Obama healthcare kicks in and everyone in the world has insurance at the U.S. taxpayers expense. Someone has to pay for it even, Police and Firefighters. You will be paying for insurance and healthcare for people crossing the border from Canada and Mexico too. Everyone already has free healthcare. If you go into a hospital sick they are required by law to provide medical assistance to you. You cannot be turned away. Our state government already grants money to pay for this cost to cover supplies and medicine used. This is even for people who collect welfare because they are too lazy to look for a job. The people that won’t work are the ones we should stop funding if we are so worried about our economy. Anyone who has a job even those who work for minimum wage and pay taxes are better than free loaders, even if they are hardworking immigrants. Atleast they are trying. Why buy the cow if the milk is always free? Quit giving shit away and make people earn their keep. If they don’t want to participate in trying to get this country back to the greatest in the world then let them stay here and shrivel up and die or get on a boat and go somewhere else where things are better. NO MORE HANDOUTS! Liberals and pacifists need a reality-slap-in-the-face. Wake up and realize it is time to stop letting people reach in your pocket and take what they want. Quit feeling sorry for criminals and lazy asses who don’t contribute to society in a positive way.

  156. Thanks Bob King and thanks for serving this country and allowing people that live here, the freedom and rights they have today. Whether or not you had to fight it out on the battlefield you still stepped up and did an honorable thing that most people don’t ever have to experience. I’m sure you worked your whole life and made a lifetime of contribution to this country so whatever benefits you have earned are well deserved. God Bless you. Keep on keepin on.

  157. here we go with the attitude again. what gives you the right to talk shit to people. the same ones that pay your salary. it is your job to put out fires. to say after one fire you should be paid for the rest of your life. who the fuck do you think you are.i have been down some pretty smokie hallways in my time, with no scott, with some of the toughest men( and i mean men) alive, and loved it. they lived it,without a word. you new people think you are GODS gift, well i got news for you. if women are doing this job, how tough can it be. in the old days, no one knew anything, now the whole world knows. you run your mouth, people don’t want to hear what we get, when they do not get much. take that attitude and shove it, do your job, or go to the truck, you lazy ass.

  158. While I am way late on this conversation, it’s pretty clear to me that the easy target is the government employee. The lefties here in this state seem to overlook the drainage that social programs and illegals have on this state. Get rid of the illegal problem, and I would have to venture that there is no problem whatsoever.

    Don’t ask me for links, as I choose not to digress into the banter that has taken place thus far. I won’t find links, but those with any common sense would see what a drain the “undocumented” worker has had on our economy. To speak otherwise is simply ignorance and and avoidance of what one of the true problems is.

    Pension reform?…maybe, but until we stop give-a-ways to illegals ( yes, this means federal dollars reimbursing our state) and the states having to survive from lacking federal policy, then the states will have to bear the burden of the feds doing absolutely nothing when it comes to what comes across our borders.

    This is obviously a multi-pronged problem, but to put all of the blame on the government worker is simply misplaced. Do the research…the “undocumented” are bleeding this economy at at a tremendous rate, and without curing this issue, economic issues will continue to worsen.

    1. No need for those links since that’s not the point of the debate. I’ll help you focus.

      The drain is documented public safety employees who can retire at 50 with most of their pay. It’s also an insult to everybody else who has to work until they’re 67 just to get Social Security.

      1. Everyone chooses their own career path and what it sounds like is alot of jealous people who obviously chose the wrong one. Fire and Police do have great pensions but I am more than willing to pay it as a taxpayer for the service they provide to the community. I have called 911 three times for the police and fire and the service was excellent. My friend was a firefighter for 30 years who just retired at 60. He had to work 30 years as a firefighter to get a full pension. I guarantee many of you couldn’t do the physically demanding job for 30 years. You all complain about their pay and pension until you need them like I did.

    2. We’d be happy to work on more than one problem at once and, yes, you have identified another. This post, however, only focusses on one big problem and does not suggest there are no others.

      No one has put “all the blame” on any one problem. Pull your head out Dave.

  159. Quit deflecting with the illegals and welfare argument. It is a red herring. Yes they are a problem, but not so much for local governments. Take a look at the financial’s for cities and see how much goes to fire and police.

    1. I guarantee you more than 99% of the tax payers are willing to pay for their safety. This is what police and fire provide, they are a safety net. When you need them they come no questions asked. And believe me one day you ALL will need them! I am 68 years old with alot of health issues and the firefighters are lifesavers.

      1. I guarantee you that 99% of taxpayer have no idea how much money we pay fire and police let alone about their multi million dollar pensions. But don’t worry times are a changing. You are bringing emotion into an argument that is about fiscal sanity and fairness when dealing with taxpayer funds.

  160. I have retired from 25 years of service, ONE of the problems is that, They dangle that pension carrot out there so after 20+ years of thrashing your body most hang on to make that pension retirement date, by this time the majority are fat, burnt out, pretty much useless and a burden. When they finally do retire the life expectancy is about 5 years. My story? I worked my last five years in pain (taking pain meds at work, not good!) from a back injury (lifting lard ass welfair pigs in and out of my ambulance) ,I finally said enough and retired injured with half retirement and NO medical insurance AND they (SB County Fire) fought me tooth and nail refusing my claim. After 25 years of busting ass (all my eval’s were 90-95% positive) I have barely enough to live on NO medical, dental, vision insurance My credit is shit, lost 35,000 in savings. (from where the county tried to starve me out) and my back is still fucked! YES the retirement system is flawed in many many ways. I do at least feel fortunate not to be on welfair or medi-cal I will Die first. It will NEVER change but with it out in the open (this and other forums) “I” feel better. Any goast writers out there I have a hell of a story……

  161. Having talked with a cousin who lives in Fullerton, some of the benefits that these guys get are outrageous. I can also say that in Washington State their our two retiremnet plans the second which everyone hired after 1977 is on provides no health care after retirement because of guys on the first plan being able to opt out on a medical disability for practically anything. So my father who has had two neck fusions, multiple back and knee surgeries either as a result of an on duty injury or wear and tear over the course of his career gets no health care when he retires. It goes both way folks, maybe you people should try and find a middle ground. I will also say that a lot of you bitching don’t have the ability to do what they do or see what they see. I know my father has a seen a 3 month old with a bullet hole in dead center in her forehead because daddy went crazy. Or the guy that blew his head off with a 30.06, his skull cap is blown off and his brains are oozing out of his skull or the guy who crashed his motorcycle flew 50 feet his face is laying next to him on the ground, my dad can’t find a pulse and the guy reaches up and grabs him and says “Help Me.” This career was my father’s choice but how many of you could live with those images in your head for the rest of your lives? How many of you would be willing run into a burning building to save someone you have no connection to?

  162. Well I have read some reviews and we shouldn’t fight like this being jealous I think all working persons should have the best because at least you get out of bed and participate somewhat to the good of society however some people will be always more lucky in life as we are however we should all be thankful to be fed, sleep under a roof and some money to provide for our family and having couple weeks vacations stop looking around and compare your life with others because you will be unhappy !

    Do the best of what you do in this sens we are all heros most heros have lost there lives so money has no matter why not being happy to be an hero to what we do and be nice to others this is the greatest gift of all to give love and being love money wille always be the subject of evil to bring controversy and hate among the nicest people who are giving always the best to what we do !

    Lets enjoy life and stop comparing who has what and who has not because life is to short to fight you should spend most of your time to what you enjoy most. Rich or poor people no one will make money the only one who makes money will be the tax man!

    Where are they the rich people Madoff in jail, his son who committed suicide…Conrad Black being sued and most of his life left to live will be spent in courts is that this kind of life you wish to have being rich ?

    Alot of rich people wished to have our job and be rather happy !

    Where are they Elvis Presly, Michael Jackson…we have the best of both world and many times we seem to forget it ! Lets focus our lives to be happy to what we have and not on what we could have had ! Good luck to you all and be happy with the love you give out and the love you will receive !

  163. And a big kumbaya to you.

    I guess we should just be happy and bend over and ignore the guy raping and robbing us.

  164. Are they grossly overpaid? Yes. Are they heros? What kind of hero responds to a critic by saying, “Go ahead, have a fire, see if we help you”, or, “you’ve been tagged and identified now”, like at the beginning of this thread.

    Sounds more like threats and extortion.

  165. Just go to the website “Officer Down Memorial Page” or Google the same and click on that.

    Read the narratives of what happened over the last month or year.

    Yes…Pension reform should be done soon to adjust the rates so they are lower, but quit spreading the BS that they don’t deserve it.

    1. Wait. Pension reform should be done to adjust the rates lower even though they deserve it?

      Sounds like you’re the one peddling BS.

      P.S. I avoid Hero Propaganda websites.

        1. Nice try at attempting to change the subject 4SDO. You’re might be smarter than most of the people you hang with, but you have had your head handed to you on a plate umpteen times on this blog you probably ought to think about a new years resolution, perhaps it’s time for you to retire from blogging unless you like pain.

  166. Damn! I knew I should have been a fireman. I was behind a jacked up F250 this morning on my way into the office that had a BIG ASS firemans sticker on the back window. So envious…. The truck also had a bunch of FSU stickers on the back. Do fireman go to college?

    1. Look at his opportunity in a different way. Attending Fullerton State University does not mean that one can endure physical pain. Firemen have to exercise and 2 years of Junior College is sufficient as a step onto the ladder of phobias, such as fear of heights, enclosed spaces, water, or people that scream. I believe a firefighter is possibly another species, because they exercise, they keep mentally challenged, they stay up with technology, they have to act stupid for the public image. They have to be independent even though they work as a crew, or in a group. No they do not have to have a higher education but if they choose to they could become a chief, captain, or technician. It is a respectful job. If I was young again I would not have chosen to bar tend, cocktail, waitress, clean cabins, cook fat foods, and listen to people as a psychologist for free. This blogger and many others have it correct when they say you choose your destiny, and follow if you can not lead yourself to the right path.

  167. Hello everyone,

    We are talking about a fine profession, about people who train hard (those jobs are back-breaking, and psychologically demanding, right then and there, and for the long run) and, yes, save lives too on a regular basis. I became an EMT overseas 10 yrs ago and maintain my certif. here, so I get to meet deserving FF/EMT on a regular basis (when I bump into trouble and do what needs to be done).

    But we, as communities, need to wake up and realize the system can not be abused for much longer.

    This discussion reminds me the huge gap between public and private employees’ benefits in my native country. Of course some private sector employees make much more money than any of us, but it is not really relevant here. Our way of life allows their way of life (I don’t personally over-consume and don’t support the “multimedia” sport industry).

    On the other hand, we have the responsibility to keep our public sector as “mature” as possible, nothing less, nothing more. It used to work, it doesn’t anymore. Many cities are on the verge of bankruptcy because we still waste money (what about the City of Bell?) , their own employees can not stand by that attitude, especially off the record.

    Many FF/EMT – and cops – mean well and are deserving. By allowing benefits to get out of control, we are slowly ruining their reputation, which is – as we know – is hard to (re)gain.

    9/11. Like many of you, I wish I was in those towers or on that plane to do what needed to be done (and if you don’t, it’s ok, our society need all kinds of skills and attitudes, including CPAs ;). But 9/11 does not give us the right to ruin our kids’ future.

    Note: being a PT, my wife treats FF and cops often (sometimes pro bono). There are real injuries out here but the scam is mostly due to the insurance industry. We should be ashamed about that too.

    If anyone is interested in learning more about the ups&downs of being a “warrior” (I don’t consider myself as one, but I served and always do my best for my fellow citizens… and yes, I am ready to pay the ultimate price if needed (I wish I was in Tucson last month)), here is a good read:
    “Warriors : More on Living with Courage, Discipline, and Honor”, edited by LW Christensen (available on Amazon, of course).

    Stay safe, and see you out there (street or wilderness).

  168. Heroes my ***,

    I’d like to see how far you bunch of immature morons would get on your own wits if you weren’t busy extorting society. I love how you threaten people who are sick of being shaken down, just like a bunch gangsters.

  169. VIC :As for:”I hope he never has a fire”.Never heard of the fire department save anything but a Foundation and the neighbor house. We won’t even go into control burns.

  170. Firefighters are like a click of snobby high school kids. The one’s I’ve observed act like teenagers and won’t give the time of day to anyone not part of their ‘in’ crowd.

  171. Yes, this is an extreme parody but it probably isn’t far off the mark. I was a volunteer firefighter/medic in a rural location for years. Because an interstate bisected our region we had calls daily. We did it because it was a service to our community and we never called ourselves heros nor did any of us apply for help for our injuries. Wouldn’t it be more cost effective to pay higher insurance premiums for fire coverage and privatize medics? I could live just as well with a lot less firefighters and less property tax… has anyone actually figured out what the savings would be to reduce their numbers drastically?

  172. TO ALL ….why is the city of Costa Mesa considering going to the County of Orange for firefighting duties?

    My take? Because the city is going broke and can no longer afford their own fire department.

    Not a bad idea, actually. IMHO, all cities should consider turning firefighting over to the various county departments, privatize paramedic service and dismantle city police departments (except for cities whose population is over 250,000) and turn law enforcement over to the Sheriffs’ departments of those counties.

    Bet I’m going to get a ton of flak over THIS idea!

    1. Thanks. Cities have to cut expenses somewhere.

      I heard a rumor that a city (??) is considering dismantling the city and becoming an unincorporated area in the county. Not a bad idea.

  173. lets hear what everyone has to say when their house is burning down and the fire department saves your family, life and home. At that moment, and let’s hope it doesn’t happen to YOU, there isn’t any amount of money or anything you aren’t willing to give to have them there doing their job. So yeah, they are “on call” and sometimes get off easy and sometimes they work the full 24 hours.
    Both sides need to support each other…..and quit letting the politicians turn us against each other.

    1. Ann Marie, you’re kidding right? Lets hear what everyone says when their house burns down? Must we dwell in the ridiculous?

      There isn’t any amount of money we would spare for a lot of things but since we only have a limited amount and many needs we have to meter it out non the less.

      We appreciated our firemen just as much 30 years ago and they didnt retire with 90+% of their highest salary for life at the age of 50. Could we go back to those days and still have them doing their jobs?

  174. As a firefighter in the New England I was laugh at when I took my job as a firefighter. When the economy tanked and my $39000 a year salary without forced OT was robbing the town I work in. I have witnessed things I never want my children to see. Would I like to retire at $90000 a year? Sure but I will retire at my top 3 yrs at 80% at the age of 60. Demonize the unions all you want but don’t group all the unions together. My local has given up so much to help our town stay afloat while the teachers union has given nothing up for their 34 hr a week, 190 days year jobs.

  175. as a 30 year firefighter in a large N.cal fire dept retired 10 years I can see the hand writeing on the wall.the pentions have increesed 2 fold since I retired to the point where it is unsustainable I loved the job it helped me raise 2 children and put them through collage I think it’s sad to see what greed has done to one of the best jobs evere.

  176. Isn’t this the third time this thing has been reposted?
    JS, or should I say Travis you have plenty of time on your hands now why can’t you write somthing original?

  177. I love that video and can’t watch it enough. I laugh harder each time I see it. The reason it’s so funny is because it’s so true. Overpaid f..ing parasites!

  178. Back east, a job with the NYC Fire Dept used to be nicknamed the “Irish Lottery” and it also is referred to as one of only 2 jobs you get paid to lay on your back…the other is legal in Nevada…Also, NYC cops and FF’s disability is 3/4 pay triple TAX FREE (no city, state or federal taxes). Fact.
    Look at the finances of the 3 big union (and Dem) states, NY, IL and CA…a combined $250 billion plus in unfunded pension liabilities
    It’s just math folks…
    And for all of you hero firefighters out there sucking on the government tit, nationwide over 70% of all firefighters are VOLUNTEERS…that means they don’t get paid.
    Even in States like NY, 89% of all fire fighters are VOLUNTEER…
    So to our elected officials, please tell the ff unions to FUCK OFF, their members can EASILY be replaced by citizens who will do the job for FREE!!!!!!!

    1. Jealousy!!!!!!!! so much hate!! its not our fault you counlnt make it!!!! and your wife probably regrets it too!!!

  179. anon again, please give an example where a town similar to Fullerton has a volunteer Fire Department.

    If Fullerton were to get rid of the Fire Department and Police Department would you volunteer for either? Please explain.

  180. Wow, I love this thread! Joe got the Firemen all riled up and there is now a rebirth of FFFF!!! FANTASTIC!!! Only when we air out all these feelings can we look forward to a rebirth in Fullerton and the rest of Orange County.
    BTW, I used to be a volunteer fireman in NY State eons ago but we had several paid staff. Takes a lot of free training to become a volunteer and that was 30 years ago!

  181. Nasaau county ny has a population of 1.34 million, with an average density greater than Fullerton.
    With the exception of as few small cities/villages, the entire county is protected by volunteer fire fighters…also, there is a substantial waiting list to join.
    Yes, I, and my friends/peers would be proud to volunteer in Fullerton!

  182. Funny video. Now doubt put together by a firefighter wannabe who was more than likely too stupid to get past the written exam. An exam that has as a sole purpose to prove that one can do high school level academic work. But it was funny nonetheless.

    What is even funnier is how the bloggers on this site recycled an old video criticizing a profession they could never do themselves but yet seem to know all about it’s demands.

    If one received their news solely from this site, one would never know that Jan Flory defeated the supported candidate Travis Kiger. Nor would one know that Sharon Quirk-Silva handily defeated this blog’s supported candidate Chris Norby.

    I believe those stories are far more relevant, and fortunately, there are other news sources detailing them.

    Lastly, it is hysterically funny how one of the other targets, Tom Daly, is headed to the Assembly while Norby is headed home and is desperately trying to get appointed to Daly’s old job. A function that has been derided on these pages numerous times. It is always ironic how those who are most critical of government have no problem living off the government? From what I can tell, Norby has lived off the government his entire adult life. Yet he is lionized by a group that claims to dislike government and career politicos. Yet another needle pegging on the ironometer.

    Good luck FFFF bloggers. Your hatred and self loathing has revealed itself and you all have been exposed as both ineffective and insignificant.

    Better luck next time.

    1. Incorrect. The sleeping gas being fed to the freebie folks while the walls close in on the masses has been deeply inhaled in an election where low information voters pulled levers for people they know NOTHING about in hopes for something for nothing. It is a science you know and that is why you can major in it over on State College. The fact remains that the fight for sound, responsible and limited government will ensue far longer than the lifespans of those that will be lining up for their free shots, cell phones, and cheeseburgers. The only hatred and self loathing that I feel is for the evil deceptive spirits that even have entered the folks that believe that big government and its minion lackeys have all the answers when in reality they themselves don’t even realize who or what they blindly serve. That is tragic indeed as it is taking this town and this country down the road to nowhere. The tide will again turn.

      1. None of which changes the FACT that Flory won and Kiger lost, or that Quirk-Silva won and Norby lost.

        Your contempt of the electorate reveals itself. You’re really no better than those you criticize. If your message was as sound as you believe, Kiger and Norby should have easily won. Yet that didn’t happen.

        1. Flory has nothing but contempt for the electorate. She believes that city staff are “the heart of the city.” She said it. She believes it.

          The electorate is just here it be milked like a cash cow.

    2. It must truly be sad to fail the “firefighter” test.”

      A high school education and being able to carry some dead weight down a stair.


  183. I have only pity for the electorate and not contempt. I will not be in one of the those lines. Sound messages fall on deaf ears these days with the media brainwashing, the IQ reductions,the shortened attention spans and flat out worlds of denial and delusional existences that most people live inside of.

    1. Your statement only reinforces your elitist thoughts about yourself and contempt for those who have beliefs different than yours.

      Now for the fun part. These statements are really nothing more than attempted deflections from the reality that next month, Jan Flory will be getting sworn into the Fullerton City Council, and Sharon Quirk-Silva will be getting sworn into the CA State Assembly. With Travis Kiger and Chris Norby going home.

      Here’s the real fun part. With the term limits initiative that passed, Quirk Silva could be there for 12 years.

      1. When it comes to elitist there is nobody quite like Flory who believes all life begins in City Hall.

        If she succeeds in winning after a recount she can she how much more damage she can do in her golden years.

      2. People are being duped. That is not elitist. The irony is that the elitist liberals are the ones pushing all the eugenics,big government and socialism. The ones they purport to serve are actually the ones who continue to become worse off after all the promises come up empty term after term.

          1. …and that is the beauty of a democracy. The will of the people always prevails barring the absence of voter fraud. In my opinion the people have spoken and they have cried give us Barabbas. Those of us who know better have asked for the wash bowl for our hands like Pilate. We shall see in 2 years. The masses will be singing a different song when the ramifications of their choices become more evident.

            1. Doubtful.

              What we do know is that Flory will be on the council for four years and that Quirk-Silva could be in the Assembly for the next 12.

              I bet those are some bitter pills for you to swallow given how the bloggers on this site has painted both as stupid and incompetent compared to the folks they supported. Says a lot about the people you supported, doesn’t it.

              1. The bitter pill will be swallowed by all as big government is never satisfied. The jugulars of the taxpayers will be greatly pained from what has been amalgamated in Sacramento. As far as locally in Fullerton, I believe the term juggernaut has lost its meaning. We are the education community and I am optimistic that that the embellished dying propaganda arms of the establishment are wagering with a losing hand.

                1. @Hmm. Regardless, she will still be on the council for the next four years and Kiger will be watching either at home or from the audience.

                  @truthseeker. Flory and Quirk-Silva are still being sworn in and Kiger and Norby are going home.

                  No amount of either of your bellyaching or hypotheticals change that FACT.

                2. truthseeker, “We are the education community…”, hahahahahaha……..don’t believe what you read in the papers, or on a sign!


                  Fullerton is full of dip shits even I know that.

            2. Get over yourself. You failed. We prevailed. One thing you were accurate about though, comparing yourself to Pontius Pilate.

  184. Please continue to post this video.

    It only shows how desperate the bloggers on this site are to remain relevant.

    The last election saw them watch their favorite sons get tossed to the side of the road like so many empty gas cans.

    1. You must be on welfare…..Suckin money out us, who work. Flory will destroy Fullerton. I can’t wait to yell at the old bag. I heard she sucks as a lawyer. She also sucks money out of the weak.

      1. Flory is not going to let idiots like Kelly’s Army yell at the council and act like caged animals. I hope she gives Whitaker a really bad time so he can turn red like a tomato and explode.

        1. Gin Floozy is not going to let idiots like Kelly’s Army yell at the council and act like caged animals

          …or what?

          You’ll… oops! I mean, she’ll have the FPD beat them to death?

          I’d like to see her try.

          1. Regardless of what happens, she is there on the council, Kiger is not.

            Now Quirk-Silva will no longer be on the council. So maybe Norby can run for his old seat or get his buddies to appoint him to the vacancy.

    2. OCDEM, we all watched the cop union dig their heels in with all their might…a lot was at stake. Those pensions are worth fighting for. Most people would do the same.

  185. @CG and Curious.

    That’s all well and good about how you feel about the POA and their pensions. Just one problem.

    A. It has nothing to do with this video that was recirculated to create interest amongst a group that is sinking into irrelevance.

    B. It doesn’t change the fact that Flory, and Quirk-Silva are being sworn in and that Kiger and Norby are going home.

    Please try to state focused. It’s obvious folks like the two of you are easily distracted.

    1. The FPOA is broke. It will take them years to stockpile a new warchest unless they tap into their GED members for a special payment. Now is the time to ressurect the solicitation from the Sheriff.

      1. Fred, what you say about the FPOA may very well be true. However, it doesn’t change the fact that come Dec. 4, Flory is getting sworn in and Kiger is headed home.

        The financial status of the FPOA or recycling this video doesn’t change that.

        1. And Whitaker will be mayor in 2013. Finally, real leadership!

          The mole man Chaffee is up in two years.

          He’s got a big target on him. Another old, burned out big-gummint liberal elected by the public employees.

          In the meantime Sebourne can pull his head out and re-visit the the whole OCSD issue. Fitzgerald has already supported that idea.

          2013 is going to be fun. I look forward to hearing from Jan Flory’s Dog regularly!

          1. That’s great Fred. I’m sure Whitaker will be a good leader for all of Fullerton’s residents.

            Your comments about Chaffee is a hypothetical. I don’t have a crystal ball and neither do you. So we don’t know what will happen in that race.

            While you may be looking forward to hearing from Jan Flory’s dog, the reality is that Jan Flory is getting sworn in on Dec. 4, and Travis Kiger is going home.

    2. FYI…It’s not just the FPOA that gets rich when they impose a polititian like Jan Flory, it’s also the Fullerton Firefighters Association.

      Bye the bye, wait until you get to hear the court testimony of the Captain from the Fullerton Fire Department who treated Kelly Thomas.

      Some hero.

      That testimony will be a real bell ringer and possibly a wake up call for the residents of Fullerton.

      Hopefully they don’t hit the snooze button again.

  186. The average firefighter in CA makes ~ $70K. The average cop ~ $80.

    Here are some salaries of jobs with a much higher fatality rate:

    Roofers: $48K
    Taxi Drivers $38K
    Truck Driver $41K
    Loggers $33K
    Iron Workers $53K

    And here are some more that require much more education:

    Teachers: $65K
    Social Workers: $50K
    Counselors: $47K
    Librarians $68K
    Accountants $75K

    I love all the inane arguments that one must support overpaying people in order to respect the profession. That’s tantamount to saying you have to support unnecessary wars to support our troops.

  187. Hey John Murphy: Why do you put teachers in the same category as police and firefighters? Teachers make less, working more hours with a lot more schooling. And I bet it’s more dangerous being a teacher in some districts than either of the other two jobs.

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