How To Turn a Paramedic Call Into a SWAT Nightmare

Guess what, Friends? Last month the City of Fullerton got sued again – stemming from an FPD incident in 2005. We have thoughtfully attached a copy of the complaint, below.

According to the complaint, some dude named Ernest Benefiel took some sleeping pills in a locked bedroom. Naturally, Benefiel fell asleep. His elderly father, concerned, called the paramedics because he thought his son was depressed. So far so good.

Unfortunately the paramedics called the good folks at the Fullerton Police Department who arrived on the scene, and because they learned that Benefiel owned a gun, decided to turn the place into some kind of hostage stand-off situation – even though there was no hostage. Some time elapsed and the cops, perhaps, became bored. To get Benefiel’s attention they deployed a flash grenade outside the guy’s window,  followed a dozen shotgun “bean bags” blasts through the same window. Benefiel was hit by one of the rounds and finally woke up from his pill-induced slumber; and, thinking he was under attack from criminals, fired a pistol shot out the window and hit a street sign.The cops then started blasting blindly into the room.

A while later Benfiel finally got his bearings and climbed out the window and surrendered peacefully – even though he had committed no crime.

Now you would think that upon mature reflection the cops’ superiors would have recognized how their out-of-control underlings unnecessarily escalated a pretty harmless situation into a SWAT stand off, and just let the whole thing go. But no! The cops and the DA decided to prosecute Benefiel for firing on a police officer. In fact, they tried him twice, and each time the case was overturned on appeal.

Meantime, Benefiel had spent over five years in jail for the heinous act of simply defending himself. And now the taxpayers of Fullerton are staring at yet another FPD civil suit settlement.

Read the complaint

If you read the complaint you will notice an inescapable fact: according to a police training expert FPD tactics violated procedure on the use of the flash grenade, the shot gun bean bags, and blindly shooting projectiles.

And who was boss of the FPD at the time and supposedly accountable for the actions of his boys? That’s right. Former Chief and current councilman Pat McKinley.

Jeez, that was such a long ago...

Fortunately we can help make sure this incompetent clown is not around after June 5th to vote for anymore settlements that would hush up embarrassing revelations about the Culture of Corruption he created while head of the Fullerton Police Department.

270 Replies to “How To Turn a Paramedic Call Into a SWAT Nightmare”

  1. Well there you have it. Incompetence, zero accountability, arrogance and a big taxpayer payout.

  2. All US PDs should be watching this shift in city power unfold. Fullerton citizens are setting precedent.

    Unfortunately, there is always more .

  3. Standard civil suit. He won’t get a penny out of it. Happens here and there in the same situations. Unfortunate? Yes. No one’s fault but his and the family that called. Next.

    1. “No one’s fault but his and the family that called. Next.”

      Give me a break. Have you even read the suit?

      Obviously not. What a numbskull!

      They will pay through the nose for this one,.

    2. Shut the fu#* up already Realty Is!!!

      You know everything, just like in August when you said ‘if Kelly simply followed orders, bla bla bla..”

      Failed!!! (Insert mean Clint Eastwood face here)

      1. Ahhhhh hello. If he followed orders we know where that would have gone. Don’t start that again. You gave the simple out on that one.

    3. “No one’s fault but his and the family that called”
      FAULT?????
      “his and his family >>>that called<<<>>EVER…call.
      Paid taxes and been a good citizen (all my life) but I personally never will call because I may (whether conscience or asleep) incur….”FAULT”.
      wow.
      next.

    4. As ALWAYS RI your full of yourself. I am going to have fun with this one.

      EXPLAIN WTF standard civil suit is to you? Standard terminology have you confused.

      I bet you and Rincon share the same hamburger at lunch more often than not.

      ANOTHER clear pattern emerges from this lawsuit.

      THE pattern of stupid is solid as a ROCK.

  4. Keep pushin’ folks….you are changing history and setting a precedent for present and future cities with similar corruption!!!!!

    1. That’s according to the lawsuit papers? Read any lawsuit filings and 90% of what the plaintiff’s write is false and lies. Just like the tow truck BS one that was just filed. 100’s are filed against cities every month and 95% don’t get a penny. They sure try to bust the cities for free money though.

      1. And 100% of nazi claims are full of BS-they’re butts are covered by other nazi’s and the head of the nazi regime. Talk about write ins-let’s talk to the gestapo that were allowed to write their reports while viewing the Kelly Thomas murder.

        Plantiff’s don’t get “a penny” not because they aren’t being truthful-Unimportant minions like you, repeat the propaganda from your leaders.

        1. Ok. Just sayin. Of course you think this is all true and fact. this is just a bandwagon lawsuit because of the PR pressure lately. there will be at least 10 more in the next 2 months. They won’t get a dime. This one also will be cheap to defend because it will be thrown out due to time.

          Yes I know. Every cop is bad. Just saying that the lawsuits are bad too and the city won’t pay on them, they will pay millions to defend them which is also fine. Next?

          1. Every cop is bad? I dunno. In Fullerton we used to say most of the cops are good. Can’t say that anymore because we have no way of knowing if it’s true. And I don’t feel like giving them the benefit of the doubt.

            Shall we add MacDonald, Diaz, Stuart, and Contino to the list?

      2. Looking at the lawsuit, the meat and potatoes behind the writing of the lawsuit, is based on the court of appeals opinion.

        And that opinion is not supportive of FPD conduct in the first place.

        Far from false and lies.

  5. So how much is the guy asking for? 5 years of my life is worth about $20 million but this guy? Who knows? Plus getting shot with beanbags hurts that is worth at least 500,000.

    1. It’s a crazy process. That’s why the city attorney bill in cities is so high. Fullerton is no different. Most cities pay over $5,000,000 up to $10,000,000 each year just to defend BS lawsuits. This lawsuit will cost the city about $200,000 to defend because they won’t want to pay a penny to this guy because they did nothing wrong. Even the juries found him guilty, so that right there will get him $0. He’s trying though. People get enticed by these ambulance chasing attorneys that want to make a dime. In a case like this if this guy got a judgement of just $1, then the city is liable to pay for all of this attorney fees which is all the attorneys really want to happen. Joke system we have but it is what it is.

      1. comprehension is important. overturned on appeal =zero conviction. i know they’re going to lose when ever you start sputtering bs

      2. Yes you are right. I don’t believe for a minute that so-called expert. Those fine police officers were highly trained into a well-oiled machine. They put their lives on the line protecting that evil-doer from himself!

      3. The appeals court overturned the convictions by a couple of dim-witted OC juries who always side with the cops.

        5 years in jail?? Oh, yeah, Goodrich says: “we always try to put the right guy in jail.” Sure ya do, blimpy.

        1. Precisely…They don’t give two [email protected]$s who they throw in jail as long as it’s not their badged bros or prominent citizens of Fullerton.

          Anyone else they throw the book at them.

    2. It’s going to be a 7 digit case if it goes to trial. When someone says locked up for 5 years pending his appeal, then you have a higher court giving the opinion that it did, OUCH!!!!

      When you get a court to rule that the citizen was acting in self defense AGAINST the police. OUCH!!

      Well you just don’t see that often.

      What’s worse is the use of force “expert” is not challenged by the people either.

      What he said was scathing by saying FPD was using deadly force without justification.

      McDonald was a clown and got everyone all jacked up based on what he did.

      I am glad my name is not attached to that court opinion.

      1. That will now bring the number to 5 FEDERAL civil rights lawsuits pending against FPD.

        Let’s hope FPD doesn’t get the Rincon judge??

  6. PD has a track record….so does the city….lot’s of pennies down the drain….corruption ends up being very costly!!!!

  7. Reality Is :
    That’s according to the lawsuit papers? Read any lawsuit filings and 90% of what the plaintiff’s write is false and lies. Just like the tow truck BS one that was just filed. 100′s are filed against cities every month and 95% don’t get a penny. They sure try to bust the cities for free money though.

    Only a true horse’s ass would read this lawsuit and say that this guy is trying to get “free money”.

    Your deluding whatever little credibility you had on this website when you talk out the side of your ass, instead of using the orifice that God gave you to communicate with.

    1. FL. I’m saying that if you believe everything in a lawsuit filing, then that shows your experience in city government and law. Read the last 200 lawsuits against Fullerton over the last 10 years. Then tell me how many paid a penny. That’s my answer.

    1. Now you’re going to make a wager! You Fick Suck!

      I wouldn’t take that bet in a million years only because we have a corrupt criminal court system that has always sided with the cops.

      Again, the only reason Tony Rack is going after Ramos and Cicinelli was because of overwhelming evidence; the POLECAM video, all the witnesses and what got it off the ground and off the hook was the hospital bed photo of Kelly Thomas after your poorly trained apes beat him to death.

  8. Let’s analyze this only knowing the plaintiffs side.

    So you are the incident commander. You have a guy inside with a gun, he took pills, and he’s ignoring all calls from family and police.

    What do you do? Keep in mind time is crucial because of the pills and he could be dead or taking his final breaths as you wait.

    So?

    1. “What do you do? Keep in mind time is crucial because of the pills and he could be dead or taking his final breaths as you wait. ”

      If they were concerned about his welfare, why would they employ bean bags through a closed, dark, silent window not knowing where he was located. What woke him up was a bag landing on his chest. I would have some serious adrenaline running though my body at that point, and perhaps be extremely disoriented.

      That was a callous disregard for the sanctity of human life for no reason other than the fact that they are dangerous dimwits and love playing their little war games.

      By the way, it’s not illegal to own and use a registered gun in your home to protect yourself. You should know that.

      1. Yes Jane. It’s tough. Firing a round out your window with your gun is your right.

        This type of case is analyzed all the time. What most PDs do now is tough for everyone to accept.

        Now if we get a call that someone is despondent in their house with a gun but he won’t answer or is ignoring us, we leave. Leave? Yep. Sucks. Family says what the hell? You are leaving? Yes ma’am. Sorry. So now the guy kills himself and then who is the bad guy? Yep. Us.

        It’s lose lose. Imagine if FPD did that right now. FFFF would bash them for leaving.

        It’s the new era. Sorry family. Handle it on your own. Cops hate leaving but its the only way to do it now.

            1. Funny how no one comments on the robbery suspects in custody yesterday or any of the day to day good stuff goin on…just makes me wonder how unhappy with life these folks are. Oh well, but thank you again Reality.

              1. The citizen business owner shot the bad guy. HE get’s major kudos.

                FPD is payed to pick up the trash after citizens throw it down in cases like this.

                But Kudos for getting the rest of the bandits in custody.

                Better than beating up bar patrons that’s for sure.

            1. You can’t give the PD a good job when it’s due Jane? 5 fleeing armed suspects, all in custody, no civilians hurt. Come on. At least give some credit one time. Be human one time.

              1. “just makes me wonder how unhappy with life these folks are. Oh well, but thank you again Reality.”

                For clarification, that’s the comment to which I was referring.

                I’m glad they are all in custody and no one was hurt. Yes, that was good.

                Generally speaking however, you spew garbage simply to get a rise out of people, not for the purpose educating them.

                1. Jane,

                  Im guessing that would the only “rise” you’ve seen in a loong time. Have a good weekend by yourself, buh bye.

              2. “Be human one time.”

                Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black?

                Human you say. Why don’t YOU show us little of YOUR humanity, if you even have any?

            1. “Reality is..I will back you up in this sea of haters.”

              Then off you go with RI into the wild blue yonder.

                1. Yes I am beginning to think Mr.Bankhead has joined McKinley in the fray.

                  What name is Doc using?

          1. Guess you didn’t read the court of appeals decision either. No go share a hamburger with RI.

            Your ship keeps taking major hits for stupid and the courts seems to be suggesting it.

            Doesn’t look or smell like BS to me.

    2. So RI, tell us the real story and quite spinning stuff with half ass comments like you generally do.

      Why don’t we meet, then you can lay out the true story of what happened in this case, I can come back here and tell everyone YOUR the real deal?

      You sound like McKinley!!!!

  9. This is what the militarization of police gets us. Overkill and a lot of money for uneeded weaponary and equipment. One mellow and calm cop with some hardware to unlock the door would have sufficed. And don’t talk to me about cops being in danger. That’s what you get paid for. Our society has it backwards when we value the life of a paid, armed public employee more than the unarmed private citizen who they kill, injure, or unjustly imprison with their stupid, macho, paranoid, militarized sorry excuses for policing.

        1. Erin :

          Reality Is :
          Il buy that JT.
          I’ll tell you that me nor any cop is getting close to that door though. Not for a million bucks even.

          Pussy!

          Lying, Cheating, Lazy, EVIL, CORRUPT, McSatans POSs.

          #31 by Reality Is on August 9, 2011
          Again. You really think that running the council in place and the police Chief in place is going to change this city around for the good forever? Come on. Look at reality. Politicians are politicians. Doesn’t matter who when where they came from. It’s just in a time like this, or any public matter, the blame has to go somewhere so in this case they blame the Chief and the entire City Council for the actions of 2 cops. Reality is?

          #32 by admin on August 9, 2011
          To the commenter known as…

          PapaWants$$, Reality Is, Fullerton, Goner, UrAMoron, NoWorries, Tough Guy, Oh Hello There, Guessmenot, Fullerton Nut, Donut Muncher, Paul, Papa Didn’t Care, Doinkers, PinkHotDogs, Respect, PapaKellyIsAGoldDigger, GetAClue, etc.

          …please pick one name and stick to it.

          lying
          adjective
          2.
          telling or containing lies; deliberately untruthful; deceitful; false: a lying report. Synonyms: deceptive, misleading, mendacious, fallacious; sham, counterfeit. Antonyms: true, candid, actual, correct, accurate, trustworthy.

          “Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn’t anyone who doesn’t appreciate kindness and compassion.” — His Holiness the Dalai Lama

          “In the present circumstances, no one can afford to assume that someone else
          will solve their problems. Every individual has a responsibility to help guide our global family in the right direction. Good wishes are not sufficient; we must become actively engaged.”– His Holiness the Dalai Lama

          “Human beings by nature want happiness and do not want suffering. With that
          feeling everyone tries to achieve happiness and tries to get rid of suffering, and everyone has the basic right to do this. In this way, all here are the same, whether rich or poor, educated or uneducated, Easterner or Westerner, believer or non-believer, and within believers whether Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and so on. Basically, from the viewpoint of real human value we are all the same.”– His Holiness the Dalai Lama

        1. Because salt is a element for purifying and preserving and God needs neither as He is completely pure and eternally existent.
          WE are to be salt and WE are to provoke purification in individuals and and society as a whole by example and action thereby causing the preservation of society so that it does not collapse morally, spritually, and ultimately psychically.

        2. Rain water water doesn’t taste salty because when ocean water vaporises it doesn’t contain the ions found in salt.

  10. Reality Is :
    Ahhhhh hello. If he followed orders we know where that would have gone. Don’t start that again. You gave the simple out on that one.

    Duh hello. The police were called to the house because someone was concerned that he might have taken too many sleeping pills and was unresponsive.

    Does that sound like to you like the type of person that a reasonable person would expect to hit the ground running with “no sirs” and “yes sirs” like a raw recruit following a Drill Instructor’s orders?

    I already knew that your morals knew of any boundaries, however now I’m starting to think that your ignorance has followed suit.

    1. Yes FL. Unresponsive. Once awake fires gun.

      So since you have all the answers, answer my other question.

      How would you handle this incident from start to finish? How would you expect this to be handled if this was your son or family member?

      1. Im sure the plaintiff listed how he nailed the inside of his door closed right? Yeah, bcuz thats normal behavior…Even Bushala when he’s rocking out at his crash pad behind the AM/PM doesnt nail the front door shut from the inside

        1. Those are all details the plaintiffs dont want the general population to know. Just the small bits to make the case look solid. Like I said, this case will be dismissed and not a penny granted.

          I’m still waiting for how you all would want this to be handled if it was your lover, spouse, or child. After you called for help.

          1. Start by not detonating explosives and blasting out the window; by not shooting an innocent man just because you’re tired of standing around. leave the machine guns at the station. They are not likely to help. Leave the trigger-happy goons and the psychologically unfit at the station, too. That would have saved Kelly Thomas’ life.

            1. Harpoon. Sorry. That’s far from reality. If you ever think the AR15’s are staying at the station when responding to a family’s call for help because their son is suicidal, has a gun, and took pills, you aren’t thinking straight. Instead of one AR15, 20 AR15’s would roll.

              In the end though we may all leave and let the family handle it now. Very odd but due to no crime and just a person possibly distraught, we all pack up and leave. So strange but that’s reality now.

      2. Once awake? He was blasted into a waking state by 12 shotgun blasts. Blasts precipitated by what? What crime did he commit? What offense? Yeah that’s right, absolutely nothing. The whole crisis was created by a bunch of GED swine with either 1) deficient training; or, 2) a real desire to hurt somebody. In other words typical FPD material!

        1. Ok Fred. That’s fine.

          How would you handle it or want it handled if it was your son?

          He’s locked and barricaded with a gun and possibly dying of an overdose.

          Go ahead.

            1. There is many things not in that filing. That’s because the plaintiff doesn’t want you to know. As the family or him. He barricaded the door with wood and nails. No entry by anyone possible. It’s not always what the other side makes it out to be. That’s why I asked what you would have done or wanted done. Then add the real facts.

              1. I’m sure there “is” many things not in the filing, but you’re just making shit up now. Go take your nap. And hop the cops don’t show up thinking your door is nailed shut.

                1. STILL NO CRIME, read all the courts ruling, especially at the bottom.

                  REMEMBER what DA Rack said about CITIZENS have the right to defend themselves.

                  HERE is a case that just confirms it.

          1. Am I missing something? This guy was not locked up with a gun-he was unconcious from medication he took-It is not a damn crime to take a sleeping pill or owning a gun or defending yourself.
            I dont see anywhere that the stupid gestapo announced themselves using oh, the phone or a bullhorn or maybe just telling the dad or even calling for aid in this situation-no, they decided to get the man’s attention by lobing a granade thru his window like they were in Bagdad.
            The man was unconscious from meds-have you ever taken a sleeping pill? you don’t get roused easily, that’s the point.
            So, of course he didn’t answer or follow commands, he couldn’t, but the non medical, no common sense pigs in gorilla suits fired rounds of crap in the man’s bedroom-and then the poor man was sent to rot in prison for 5 years.
            Meanwhile a pervert, scumbag molester with a badge is set free continuously.

            As usual, what the FPD nazi’s did was stupidly wrong.

            1. The other missing fact is tha he knew it was the cops, fired at the cops hoping they would kill him like he wanted. Good work cops. You saved his life.

        2. By the way they did exactly as trained.

          End result was perfect.

          Bad part was his jail time.

          Most like this, in the 100’s, end in death.

            1. True. There will be many more. Attorneys care about the dollar and any attorney would sue for anything right now. Just like this one that’s out of time.

              You realize cities get sued everyday all the time?

              I don’t know the stats but I bet Fullerton has still been sued today less or at the average of all the other cities in California. $300 to sue. Everyone does it hoping for that pot of gold but most times the attorneys are the only winners.

              1. Jesus, O’ Malley, are you really this lonely? Can’t you find an on-line poker game, or something? Can’t you go clean Dave Ellis’s bathroom or something?

                1. email him. He’s at commerce casino or Dodger spring training according to his Facebook and twitter.

              2. Every day? Did you really mean to say that? I bet you did. And I be Fullerton gets sued more than anybody else. There’s a reason they call it the Culture of Corruption!

                Hahaha!

      1. Patrick-don’t you have some Corn beef and cabbage to prepare for tonight’s festivities? I’m sure all you brothers in blue will want to share with each other how they beat and tased the hell out of a leprechan.

        1. I’m not Patrick or the other names.

          But yes almost time to party!!

          Tasering a leprechaun. I’ll put tha on my bucket list.

          I bet DTF will be rocking tonight. Bring ur camera Joe there will be some good fights, batons, tasers, and handcuffs I’m sure.

          1. You would pick a pint sized figure to tase, ya pussy!

            One too many times the average sized or larger sized individual you’ve tased in the past probably kept coming after you and scared the shit outta you and ya shot him…

            Something like that.

  11. I guess the Jewerly Store owner was lucky the FPD, didn’t get confused and arrest him for shootin, that bad boy in the face and gut.
    BTW, which FPD ran 3 blocks to catch one of the bad boys. Sorry, I thought all our FPD’s looked like Goodpinch. Never seen any of them out of their cars…..

      1. Spoken like a true white-supremacy cop..

        Or Copsucker…

        BTW, how many latinos and blacks did you beat up on your beat.

    1. It happens to me all the time also. When they dont like my comments, they delete me. Thats ok. Its the end that counts.

          1. Yeah, that’s it “Tony don’t like people heating truths” and you are the Ghandi of all truth, far and wide.

      1. You, reality is and Rapist Rincon can gang bang each other in the PD locker room for all I care but I’m not liking how the nasty posts about Erin stays up.

  12. Great post Tony, why do the police even respond to these calls? What’s the worst that could happen by not responding he kills his family or neighbors? Who gives a shit,

      1. The only way that would happen is if someone randomly started shooting into his room and he returned fire in fear for his life.

        What’s that you say? That’s exactly what happened? Oh.

        1. But yes. They usually play possum until the dog bites them or the taser hits em or the rubber bullets pelt them. Then they wake up. And they aren’t grenades you moron LoL

          1. But no, neandrathal, any person with 1/2 a brain knows there are alternative quick ways to tell if a person is faking without firing a hail of bullets into a person’s chest or inviting a dog to bite their face off-but, the catch is, you have to have an IQ higher than your shoe size to know what they are and how to use them-well that counts out most nazi’s

            1. True. No one in law enforcement would do it your way. Looks like you have your work cut out for you.

              You know a bullet kills you before you have time to peek in and see if he’s just kidding and sleeping?

              You know i can lay in a room and kill everyone around before they even know I’m awake?

              It’s ok. I understand you have no realization of reality in the real world. That’s not bad. It’s just reality.

              1. O’Malley-That’s the answer for all you cowards-“just shoot the person” ask questions later.

                I said QUICK ways-I mean split second ways, got it?
                Nope the gun is the best, the taser, anything that I can fire, cause without it, I wouldn’t know what to do, cause I don’t have a brain I can use and its easier and I might get shot.

                “No-worries, my boys will back me if Im wrong and I kill someone by mistake-we’ll just say the person was resisting.”

                Goosesteppin Keystone, Reno 911ers

                1. Osmelley?

                  True in a way. Cops would rather go home at night then wait that extra 2 seconds for them to fire first and die. Yes you are right there. Just as we are trained from day one.

                  Talk to POST. Change the training.

                2. He has short man problems……Short men always have ego problems….When is the City of Fullerton going to hire a outside Chief of Police? Instead of hanging on to the Acting thing…..

                3. Hey gunslinger, post the copy of the lawsuit when you got sued after you shot and killed the kid who was armed with a bicycle. Got you a disability retirement for stress did it?

                4. NO lawsuit in my shooting pal. Sorry to disappoint you.

                  I’s were dotted, T’s crossed. I know it’s a novel concept for you.

                  No retirement behind the shooting either.

                  TRY AGAIN boys!!!

                  But if your pal RI was a man who took care of business away from the keyboard, he could have asked all these questions and got answers a few months ago.

                  He could really explain what a disgruntled hater is all about.

                  Then come in here and throw some GOOD darts.

                  I submit most of you FPD trolls don’t have many war stories yourself, I mean real stories beyond beating up bar patrons and jackin homeless folks.

                  The offer is still open RI, you seem to know the system so well it would be a walk in the park for you, based on your vast management experience.

                  But again, I submit you don’t want anyone to know who you are for a variety of reasons.

                  RI never expected anyone to come in here and call BS on some of this in the manner that has been.

                  Now someone is kickin the can!!! Shit happens.

                5. ACU,

                  Everyone knows who he is. He’s playing with our minds because he likes the thrill. You know, an adrenaline junkie.

                6. Well Jane, it’s still pretty pathetic that someone like RI can’t handle a disgruntled hater.

                  But setting that issue a side, it appears there are a number of other issues they can’t handle very well.

                  Just read the court’s opinion along with other factual documents and they speak for themselves.

                  So whether a simple issue, or complex, the facts speak clearly they can’t handle SQUAT!!!!!

                  Their corrupt regime has never come under serious fire, they got caught with their pants down, RI and Lou Ponsi is the best they got to repair a sinking ship.

                  LAUGHABLE!!!!

                7. “Their corrupt regime has never come under serious fire, they got caught with their pants down, RI and Lou Ponsi is the best they got to repair a sinking ship.”

                  It IS very laughable. When the facts are hidden from the public, and something seems askew, those with the most to lose, fight to the death. So, if one looks at the bigger picture, PDs all over are experiencing a shift in power because people don’t like being brutalized and killed. It’s time to end SWAT procedures for a majority of medical emergencies and really for most situations. There have been too many serious errors.

                  Has the FPD ever heard about negotiations and rational approaches to a complex problem, especially when it involves a danger of life and limb?

                8. Jane.

                  You are basing your comment on one incident that is being analyzed years later.

                  You think there are hundreds of others that went very well and saved lives?

                  Daily stuff like this happens that you never hear about.

                  Do a public records request for all swat callouts in the last 10 years. Or flash bang uses. Or rubber bullet uses. Or taser uses. It might surprise you how well things went.

                9. Do request for wrong door raids… you will find lots of dead armed citizens who were legally trying to protect themselves. The cops always justify it a good shoot. Even when an innocent gun owner dies…. you like innocent gun owners dying dont you RI ?

                10. Give some examples that I can research. You act like wrong door raids happen all the time. I know of three in 25 years. I’m sure there are more but it doesn’t happen often and I know of one death.

                  I’m an NRA member. I support gun ownership. That doesn’t mean you can use it however you want in your house though.

                  Swat and search warrants are fun and challenging. Split second decisions. Most go good and smooth but every once in awhile people make hasty decisions that create split second decisions on our end.

                11. Bullshit. You’re a cop in Pomona. You believe in beating up Mexicans for fun. Then they conveniently end up dead.

                  Case closed. Move on. Get a life.

                12. Jose Gurena in Tucson is a big cluster… not wrong door but a former Marine with weapons cannot exist. He has to be killed. Every cop ther lied and they were cleared by their own. He was innocent and they all but said it.

                  http://www.datehookup.com/Thread-212688.htm

                  Lots more look them up. You seem to be able to look up things you like but seem unable to lookup things you do not. There is more to life than pro cop sites…

                  try http://www.injustceeverywhere.com

                13. Yea that Arizona one is interesting. He was a drug dealer and was able to use the media and his army job to distract from the truths.

                  Sad incident and unfortunate. But if you deal drugs and get raided, you tend to lose your right to protect your home from invasion by cops armed with a search warrant. If you sell drugs from your house, probably better to put your guns down when the bearcat yanks off the from of your house.

                14. Liar. He was not a drug dealer. No connection to drug dealing by him has ever been found (and they looked). You know this you read the articles. he was murdered and his wife and kids are going to get millions. They made up things about the raid, he fired first, WRONG his weapon still had the safety on. He had body armour and federal agent uniforms. WRONG he had stuff you can order off E-Bay and I have a border patrol hat I bought at the county fair. You are a lying scumbag and prove it with every post. No mention of the 61 year old innocent guy ? Did you look hard or was the proof that cops kill innocent people and lie about it to much for you to take?

                15. D”o a public records request for all swat callouts in the last 10 years. Or flash bang uses. Or rubber bullet uses. Or taser uses. It might surprise you how well things went.”

                  Will do.

                16. RI,

                  You wanted some facts regarding US raids?

                  Here you go:

                  Botched Paramilitary Police Raids:
                  An Epidemic of “Isolated Incidents”

                  An interactive map of botched SWAT and paramilitary police raids, released in conjunction with the Cato policy paper “Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids,” by Radley Balko.

                  http://www.cato.org/raidmap/#

                17. Jane..You watch to much TV. Even cop show now a days are trying to be a little more realistic. Southland is one of them.
                  “Negotiations and rational apporaches to a complex problem”. You are out of your mind.

                18. ACU

                  Don’t have many war stories? You are one sick puppy. It’s clear by making that comment you take great pride in killing an unarmed kid. Wear the incident around your neck and share it whenever you can. That kids life is just a good war story to you. Anyone with half a brain could have resolved the situation with having to kill but that would not have helped you towards your goal of being accepted by your peers as a real man.

                19. Yeah no war stories and we are happy about that. That is why we live in Fullerton. This is not the wild wild west like from you came from ACU. Shit kickers and fly magnets.

                20. You two dummies have war stories alright, the public is bringing them to your doorstep, you got two cops on trial for their freedom.

                  And that’s a drop in the bucket.

                  Yes with half a brain YOU ALL would not be in the kimshee that you are.

                  YOU have NO PROOF and what you throw at me. The readers here have tons of proof. The courts themselves have supplied more than enough.

                  Throw you rocks at glass houses fools, or step up and encourge you pal RI to be a man for once and quite hiding behind his badge and rank.

                21. And you have no proof what is happening in the Kelly case. You just make shit up so these idiots on this blog can kiss your ass. For being ex LE you have a stupid way of looking at stuff. Stop being a follower.

                22. Well Mr.Doe how do you know what I know or don’t know?

                  Why don’t you and RI if your not one in the same quit talkin your smack and meet me. Then you can tell me I am stupid to my face.

                  I always appreciate an intellect like yourself setting me straight.

                  You up to the challenge??

                23. Cops are trained to win not loose and if someone dies, oh well shit happens. Causalties of war. Kill or be killed. It’s been like that from the begining. Like it or not.

                24. To john doe:

                  No, actually, it’s not always been like that. It’s only with the militarization of the cops after Viet Nam (Hmm) that the cops became more and more heavily armed, armored, and stupid.

                  The average cop today has an IQ of about 92.

                  The universal “us versus” them mentality nurtured in copdom is a relatively recent phenomenon. Giving people like this weapons and indemnity is a very poor idea.

                25. Yes cause after Viet Nam the world was more hateful. Disgruntle vets who were against the establishment. Protests and more police involvement hence more police activity and all shown on television. There is no respect out there anymore. Kids from the Viet Nam era that were taught by there parents to hate the police.
                  Little six shooters are no longer effective. Weapons had to become bigger and better. Think about it. What happened at the Hollywood shootout several years ago?

                26. “Kids from the Viet Nam era that were taught by there parents to hate the police.”

                  Did you learn that in history books at school?

                  The bigger question I have is WTF are talking about?

                27. Thank you History Major for confirming my many former comments here to these trolls, referring to their ‘two-digit IQs’.

                  Frankly that was just a guess on my part but a very obvious one.

  13. Cops show up. Overreact. Start shooting. Happens everyday. Lawsuits, too. Cops don’t have to pay, you do.

    Reality.

  14. Reality Is :
    Yes FL. Unresponsive. Once awake fires gun.
    So since you have all the answers, answer my other question.
    How would you handle this incident from start to finish? How would you expect this to be handled if this was your son or family member?

    I would’ve listened to the 80-year old father and let allowed him to go in and get his own son out of the bedroom. The father obviously thought since he had called the paramedics that he was expecting a medical response, which clearly illustrates that the father never felt that the son was a threat in the first place or he would’ve called the police for help instead of the paramedics.

    1. LOL you are proving why you guys hate the world. Do this. Get the 911 call. It’s public info. It will be on the case soon enough but listen to it. Tell me what dad said then. Just to let you know though, fire never rolls on anything without fire that has any chance of being crime or argument related. It’s just funny because this post would be here even if the guy killed himself. It would read police did nothing and the family is suing. That’s reality today.

    2. And just since you said it.

      So I tell the cops to standby. I’m gonna let pops go up to the door and see what he can do. Nutson fires through the door killing the pops. How do you think FFFF would like that lawsuit? LOL like I said these are lose lose situations. This one turned out best possible way with no one killed and minor injuries.

      1. “This one turned out best possible way with no one killed and minor injuries.”

        You can tell that to Ernest, who spent over 5 years in jail.

        That is not the best possible outcome by any means.

    1. 5% of all split second decisions would have been done differently when looked at later. Same with football, basketball, policing, swat, car crashes, etc. so yes, we will always have lawsuits, FFFF people, and others saying things were done wrong. Part of business. I’m sure more than 95% of McKinleys hires turned out to be great cops and great community people for Fullerton, but you will never hear that here.

      1. 95%. Good figure. Made it up. No one will know. Most cops great. Only a few bad apples. Hired ’em all. Public safety.

  15. Reality Is :
    Come on Fred. Even you know my comments disappear. Tony don’t like people heating truths.

    Hearing and listening our two different species.

    1. I have the utmost respect for the people who came out to this protest in the rain. I hope its done again next week if the weather is better.

  16. Why shoot at someone with a loaded gun under these circumstances? I understand the need for self-defense on the part of the police but it appears the guy never came to the window, never pointed the gun at them, nothing.

    If a cop was asleep and somebody fired into his bedroom, he too would return fire. So I don’t understand why the police would put themselves in harm’s way by soliciting the same type of reaction.

    The merits of the criminal case aside, the execution of this incident makes the officers involved look like complete dumbasses because they put their own lives in danger.

    Reality Is, ACU, am I wrong in thinking this? Help me understand…

  17. Why shoot at someone with a loaded gun under these circumstances? I understand the need for self-defense on the part of the police but it appears the guy never came to the window, never pointed the gun at them, nothing.

    If a cop was asleep and somebody fired into his bedroom, he too would return fire. So I don’t understand why the police would put themselves in harm’s way by soliciting the same type of reaction.

    The merits of the criminal case aside, the execution of this incident makes the officers involved look like complete dumbasses because they put their own lives in danger.

    Reality Is, ACU, am I wrong in thinking this? Help me understand…

    1. There is one answer. Because you don’t have all the facts and you are basing your questions on reading a plaintiffs story about what he felt happened.

      In many situations, flash bangs and rubber bullets are used to disengage the guy from the gun and they usually give up because of the fear they are being shot and realizing the cops are serious. If the guy was to still refuse, there are guns and or snipers pointed on the guy just in case. If the guy fires out a window or at someone or is getting up firing, they usually won’t live long. Too much risk to people in the area and the cops.

      But you touched on the main thing in 2012. These calls happen often and we used to deploy the world to get them help and get them out safe. Due to the questions of home, crime, and what we are trying to accomplish, the risk and liability isn’t worth it. We really do just pack up and leave often now. It’s crazy. Families look at us like we are crazy. It’s not what we want to do but we have too. Its not as easy as that, but if no risk to others at the time, we are outta there.

      1. “Too much risk to people in the area and the cops.”

        Blast away. Indiscriminately. Teaches everyone a lesson.

      2. I realize the plaintiff’s perception of the facts is likely flawed.

        Regarding the explanation you offered, isn’t it wishful thinking that a suicidal person will surrender out of fear? If he/she truly wants to die but lacks courage to pull the trigger, what does the person have to lose in a suicide-by-cop scenario by pointing the gun toward the officers? For the police this is like going for a morning jog in the fast lane of a freeway. Your life MIGHT be spared but the odds of death or injury are extremely high. But I think you already touched on that in your last paragraph.

        Let me ask you this, what percentage of potential suicides are averted by police intervention? Of those successful instances, how many attempt suicide at a later date and succeed? This seems like a losing battle that the police probably shouldn’t get involved with.

      3. RI, you must be McKinley. Why? Because you’re so passionate about this case, so sure of what happened, attempting to justify why it was right, etc…

        RI, you are the king of ‘Aliens’…

  18. Reality Is :
    5% of all split second decisions would have been done differently when looked at later. Same with football, basketball, policing, swat, car crashes, etc. so yes, we will always have lawsuits, FFFF people, and others saying things were done wrong. Part of business. I’m sure more than 95% of McKinleys hires turned out to be great cops and great community people for Fullerton, but you will never hear that here.

    Here’s just a few of the examples of why the rotten apples never fall far from the (McKinley)tree…
    http://www.fullertoncops.com/

    1. Would it surprise you that if you got all the cases from every city in California since 2003, Fullerton would actually look good? This is a small number compared to the US or Calif. humans make mistakes and cops get fired everyday.

      1. Yes Fullerton looks good. Uniforms pressed. Rincon at gym. Shaved heads. Badges and Bullets shiny. Helmets polished.

  19. I can’t believe this. Our fine force is the best of the best. They put their lives on the line every day. Sometimes they have to shoot for your own good. It’s called public safety.

    1. The best of the Best. Then can you explain, why as a resident, I am afaid to call the FPD for HELP!!!! If you want me to believe in you. The FPD will have to prove that you all have some pride in your jobs…..Instead of being a bunch of out of control animals.

      1. Exactly cg…
        Now yesterday we heard about the quick response from FPD in that jewelry heist attempt, but that was because it was a store.

        We saw a comment on a previous blog the other day about how the FPD failed to respond saying they were too busy when that citizen called 911 when being hassled and verbally threatened at the train depot.

        No need to call FPD for help if you are a citizen…
        Just shoot the perpetrator, pull him inside your house and tell the cops he broke in.

        Shooter gets away scott free. Happens all the time.. LOL (smiley face)

        Oh yeah, and shut the hell up RI!!!!

  20. Reality Is :
    And just since you said it.
    So I tell the cops to standby. I’m gonna let pops go up to the door and see what he can do. Nutson fires through the door killing the pops. How do you think FFFF would like that lawsuit? LOL like I said these are lose lose situations. This one turned out best possible way with no one killed and minor injuries.

    Did you not read that the son lost his freedom for five long years even though his “conviction” by our joke of a District Attorney was set aside not once, but twice by the Court of Appeals?

    I think if that if this was your son and you were the 80 year old father who was calling to help him, and instead found your son ends up being taken away to prison that you’d be singing a different tune.

    Problem for you is that your pathology doesn’t allow for a conscience, so asking you to apply the golden rule and do onto others as you would have done onto you is pretty much a moot point.

    1. You explained it. Anger toward the system and the charges more than anything. I could agree with that. I think that way often that people have gone through enough so why charge them? DA doesn’t think that way. Crime is a crime. Like when someone’s 1 year old dies in a crash because their car seat wasn’t in right. Manslaughter. Ouch. Tough system. Jury shoulda found him not guilty here.

  21. john doe :
    It happens to me all the time also. When they dont like my comments, they delete me. Thats ok. Its the end that counts.

    I think it’s kind of like the horse shit that you see during a parade. Everybody tries to act like it’s not there, however someones still got to clean it up before everyone steps in it when they pass by.

    1. LMAO, YEP!!!! They can even smell it, but still pretent it isn’t there.

      RI smells it, steps in it, and still doesn’t realize he is tracking it onto the carpet at home.

      Hopefully his wife will SLAP him for not paying attention!!!!

  22. Reality Is :
    Would it surprise you that if you got all the cases from every city in California since 2003, Fullerton would actually look good? This is a small number compared to the US or Calif. humans make mistakes and cops get fired everyday.

    These are a scant few that had the courage to go forward after being bullied and intimidate by those same people that they were expecting to serve and protect them.
    Do you ever stop minimalizing bad behavior?

      1. Nice RI (or McKinley or Patrick O’Malley)…

        Now you are behaving..

        I agree with that; cops are people too… Bottom line.

  23. Reality Is :
    Il buy that JT.
    I’ll tell you that me nor any cop is getting close to that door though. Not for a million bucks even.

    That’s because YOU have no courage RI, and NO most of you FPD boys would not get close to that door.

    A couple of REAL cops would have gathered alot more information before resorting to the crap the first cop did.

    AND you had to bring LA HABRA PD into the mess.

    Just how many cops in FPD does it take to handle a barking DOG complaint?

    1. You think the first responder tossed a flash bang? Come on. You aren’t that dumb. 2 swat teams. Serious shit.

  24. Reality Is :
    Osmelley?
    True in a way. Cops would rather go home at night then wait that extra 2 seconds for them to fire first and die. Yes you are right there. Just as we are trained from day one.
    Talk to POST. Change the training.

    RI I truly believe the last time you had to kick someone’s ass one on one when the chips were down, was back in grammer school when someone was trying to take your lunch money.

    It’s obvious you have never been in the military. But I’ll be happy to lool your war medals.

    You and some of your pampered blue belly pals should spend a few years working in a rural setting, having to think on your feet knowing you don’t have a few dozens cops to back you up.

  25. Reality Is :
    LOL you are proving why you guys hate the world. Do this. Get the 911 call. It’s public info. It will be on the case soon enough but listen to it. Tell me what dad said then. Just to let you know though, fire never rolls on anything without fire that has any chance of being crime or argument related. It’s just funny because this post would be here even if the guy killed himself. It would read police did nothing and the family is suing. That’s reality today.

    What your proving is your a puss with no innovation, ability to adapt, overcome, improvise in a crises.

    They guy is in his room, took some sleeping pills, who owns a gun. NO CRIME at this point to start off with the heavy artillary from the get go.

    FPD went barricaded suspect based on dad’s imput who might not have really known himself what was going on, and FPD didn’t try to establish ANY communication before they went HOT. BULLSHIT!!!!

    Send FFFF the police report and let them post it.

    1. Yikes. You really are out of touch. I guess if you think cops or family should get close to that door, then it’s good you are retired and long gone.

  26. Hey Joe, if there is anyway we could get this appeal up on the blog, it would be very helpful.

    Maybe the appeal was as scathing as the judges was on Rincon???

    Ya never know!!

  27. Tu sabes :
    Unfortunately, not today…Got cancelles bcuz Erin’s wig(s) would get wet and her caked on make up smeared…..One positive thing is maybe the gravel she complained about in front of her home will get wash awayed so her son can skateboard.

    Hahahaha, it wasn’t cancelled.. Moron! No fucking balls between your legs that’s for sure. Vete a la mierda a tu mamá

    1. Looks solid to me. Good job by all. Cops, DA, Juries. Can’t help political appeals. Just another day when it gets that high up.

  28. Reality Is :
    The other missing fact is tha he knew it was the cops, fired at the cops hoping they would kill him like he wanted. Good work cops. You saved his life.

    Your still full of BS RI, contrary to the courts ruling, you came in here telling everyone he was convicted when in FACT the Court of Appeals reveresed the lower court BIG TIME.

    The order of the court was to set the ruling as “ACQUITTED”.

    Read the courts ruling then simply SHUT UP!!!!

    It’s another black eye for FPD and the OVER REACTING.

    The federal courts need to put FPD under their immediate supervision.

    1. LOL he was convicted twice. Just cause appeals change something doesn’t mean anyone did bad especially after two juries made the ultimate guilt decision. Fed courts overturn daily. You know that. They don’t even look at the initial PD arrest in these.

  29. AntiCorruptionUnit :
    STILL NO CRIME, read all the courts ruling, especially at the bottom.
    REMEMBER what DA Rack said about CITIZENS have the right to defend themselves.
    HERE is a case that just confirms it.

    I think T-Rack is gonna eat his words on this one.

  30. john doe :

    AntiCorruptionUnit :
    STILL NO CRIME, read all the courts ruling, especially at the bottom.
    REMEMBER what DA Rack said about CITIZENS have the right to defend themselves.
    HERE is a case that just confirms it.

    I think T-Rack is gonna eat his words on this one.

    Defend and resist are two different things.

    1. Well John Doe slice this cake anyway you want, it’s a black eye for FPD.

      Bad tactics, bad decision making from the get, over reacting.

      Seems to be a pattern emerging, but you split hairs however.

  31. Anonymous :
    that too……but my question to Lifesaving Service is;
    Why does God cry?

    Frustration. It’s the same with babies. They only cry because they are unable to communicate what they want you to do.

    1. I think you are partly correct ….
      God has no imperfections in His communication but He is deeply sad when He communicates perfectly and we do not hear……like a parent that says EVERYTHING and more to a child but they will not listen because they want to do their own thing just because they want to rebel.
      Babies have needs, God is self sufficient and needs nothing.
      Frustration would only be the tip of the emotional iceberg depending on how far gone the child was/is.

  32. #5 by Reality Is:
    He says that its “a standard civil suit, He won’t get a penny out of it.”
    Tuco fell off his chair laughing so hard. It was prosecuted twice and twice overturned by APPELLATE COURT. He has served in jail for 5 years! I will guess a settlement in the neighborhood of $700,000 unless the guy has a million priors. Unbelievable amount of callousness and lack of understanding of civil suits. In fact, civil suits require only a preponderance of evidence and verdicts not be unanimous.
    Not one but TWO overturns in Appellate Court. Wow, and those lawyers fees mount up!

  33. Reality Really Is :
    Every cop is bad? I dunno. In Fullerton we used to say most of the cops are good. Can’t say that anymore because we have no way of knowing if it’s true. And I don’t feel like giving them the benefit of the doubt.
    Shall we add MacDonald, Diaz, Stuart, and Contino to the list?

    No need to add MacDonald. He died a couple years ago from skin cancer at age 41. His family has suffered enough…

  34. RI said it in a veiled way. If you own a gun you are the enemy and must be dealt with in a harsh way. So the guy owned a gun, it was legal and he was in his house. RI thinks citizens with guns are the enemy and must be eradicated, one way or the other.

  35. corrupt :
    RI said it in a veiled way. If you own a gun you are the enemy and must be dealt with in a harsh way. So the guy owned a gun, it was legal and he was in his house. RI thinks citizens with guns are the enemy and must be eradicated, one way or the other.

    Owning a gun to protect one’s home is a right that is extended to all law abiding U.S. citizens. The sooner all law enforcement personnel accepts this and embraces it, the better off we’ll all be.

    1. The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms. It was adopted on December 15, 1791.

      In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two Second Amendment decisions. – In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual’s right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

      In McDonald v. Chicago (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

  36. http://public.findlaw.com/civil-rights/more-civil-rights-topics/police-misconduct-rights.html

    “…If the amount of force was reasonable, it doesn’t matter that the officer’s intentions were bad. But the reverse is also true: if the officer had good intentions, but used unreasonable force, the excessive force claim will not be dismissed.

    Failure to Intervene:

    Officers have a duty to protect individuals from constitutional violations by fellow officers. Therefore, an officer who witnesses a fellow officer violating an individual’s constitutional rights may be liable to the victim for failing to intervene.

    The Qualified Immunity Defense:

    Defense attorneys representing a police officer for any of these claims will raise a defense of qualified immunity. This defense exists to prevent the fear of legal prosecution from inhibiting a police officer from enforcing the law. The defense will defeat a claim against the officer if the officer’s conduct did not violate a clearly established constitutional or statutory right. In other words, the specific acts the officer prevented the individual from engaging in must be legally protected, otherwise there is no civil rights violation. In order to win a civil rights claim, an individual bringing a police misconduct claim must prove that the actions of the police exceeded reasonable bounds, infringed the victim’s constitutional rights, and produced some injury or damages to the victim.”

  37. john doe :
    Cops are trained to win not loose and if someone dies, oh well shit happens. Causalties of war. Kill or be killed. It’s been like that from the begining. Like it or not.

    It used to be that people became police officers to save lives?
    A cavalier attitude like yours is what got us in this mess.

  38. Jane H :
    Thank you.
    The rise of SWAT after Vietnam led by Darryl Gates, McKinley and friends.

    Historical footnote/trivia of how SWAT was credited to Daryl Gates and the LAPD, instead of where it truly originated, which was in Delano, California in order to suppress the Caesar Chavez led civil protests in the 60’s of the United Farm Workers…

    While the public image of SWAT first became known through the LAPD, perhaps because of its proximity to the mass media and the size and professionalism of the Department itself, the first SWAT-type operations were conducted north of Los Angeles in the farming community of Delano, California on the border between Kern and Tulare Counties in the San Joaquin Valley. At the time, César Chavez’ United Farm Workers union was staging numerous protests in Delano, both at cold storage facilities and outside non-supportive farm workers’ homes on city streets. The Delano Police Department responded by forming ad-hoc units using special weapons and tactics. Television news stations and print media carried live and delayed reportage of these events across the United States. Personnel from the LAPD, having seen these broadcasts, contacted Delano and inquired about the program. One officer then obtained permission to observe the Delano Police Department’s special weapons and tactics units in action, and afterwards took what he had learned back to Los Angeles where his knowledge was used and expanded on to form the LAPD’s own first SWAT unit.

    1. Thank you for the clarification. I now remember reading that some of that. They did take an awful lot of credit for it though.

    2. Thanks Fullerton Lover. I did read this in this lengthy articcle in the Balko Whitepapers, 2006

      http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/balko_whitepaper_2006.pdf

      The Birth of SWAT

      Longtime Los Angeles police chief Daryl
      F. Gates is widely credited with inventing the
      SWAT team in early 1966, though there’s
      some evidence that the idea was brought to
      Gates a year earlier, when he was inspector
      general, by Los Angeles Police Department
      officer John Nelson. The inspiration for the
      modern SWAT team was a specialized force
      in Delano, California, made up of crowd control
      officers, riot police, and snipers, assembled
      to counter the farm worker uprisings led
      by Cesar Chavez.20
      .

  39. john doe :
    Yes cause after Viet Nam the world was more hateful. Disgruntle vets who were against the establishment. Protests and more police involvement hence more police activity and all shown on television. There is no respect out there anymore. Kids from the Viet Nam era that were taught by there parents to hate the police.
    Little six shooters are no longer effective. Weapons had to become bigger and better. Think about it. What happened at the Hollywood shootout several years ago?

    Actually, SWAT was first used to supress civil rights during the 60’s…

    While the public image of SWAT first became known through the LAPD, perhaps because of its proximity to the mass media and the size and professionalism of the Department itself, the first SWAT-type operations were conducted north of Los Angeles in the farming community of Delano, California on the border between Kern and Tulare Counties in the San Joaquin Valley. At the time, César Chavez’ United Farm Workers union was staging numerous protests in Delano, both at cold storage facilities and outside non-supportive farm workers’ homes on city streets. The Delano Police Department responded by forming ad-hoc units using special weapons and tactics. Television news stations and print media carried live and delayed reportage of these events across the United States. Personnel from the LAPD, having seen these broadcasts, contacted Delano and inquired about the program. One officer then obtained permission to observe the Delano Police Department’s special weapons and tactics units in action, and afterwards took what he had learned back to Los Angeles where his knowledge was used and expanded on to form the LAPD’s own first SWAT unit.

  40. I lived during the VN War, I know VN Vets as well as Vietnamese who came to the US as soon as they could when that war ended –

    1. the VN Vets I know aren’t against the “establishment”; some don’t like the V.A., but that’s an entirely different story
    2. the Vietnamese I know don’t hate the police
    3. The NORTH Hollywood shootout was not Vietnamese against police; it was an entirely different ethnic group

    4. Time for your GED exam practice – good luck on that!

    1. I think John Doe might be talking about what we saw on TV growing in the 60s, protests, flag burning, police brutality and such.

      What he said might have just a shred of truth in it, but it’s so general as to be virtually worthless as an argument.

  41. Hey killer, the proof is your own words. How many kids armed with bicycles have you killed? Did they give you a medal?

  42. RI aka Patrick Omalley of Pomona PD-are you jealous of ACU? you sound it.
    (You think nothing of all of us and you are under the impession, that much like you and a kindergarten class, we can’t think for ourselves)

    I believe the award for biggest blockhead, who constantly stalks us and is dillusional, would be given to you, you cat turd rolled in bread crumbs, and further, you really should mind your own bidness.

    Say boy, If you want you an audience, go to one of those She-bear seminars with McYoda so you can explain to all, the great blue policies no one but you, and a few of your buddies, knows about, and you can spread your blue Buddah wisdom to all…on video.

  43. Anonymous :Funny how no one comments on the robbery suspects in custody yesterday or any of the day to day good stuff goin on…just makes me wonder how unhappy with life these folks are. Oh well, but thank you again Reality.

    Of course, I didnt post a thank you on here…I went over to them, and said thank you…thats right strolled over to the 16 I see nightly and said…Now hell yeah, that is the PD, that I am thankful for,so, blow me if I didnt use the forum to thank them I thought they deserved a thank you from me personally . And your point is? If you dont believe me. ask the boys n blue at city council, If I did this…they will confirm. Yeah, I post in here stuff,my freinds and neighbors post in here, but guess what we go to the source and ask , take to task, or thank- which ever the circumstance requires. I suggest you do the same.

  44. Fullerton Lover :

    Jane H :Thank you.The rise of SWAT after Vietnam led by Darryl Gates, McKinley and friends.

    Historical footnote/trivia of how SWAT was credited to Daryl Gates and the LAPD, instead of where it truly originated, which was in Delano, California in order to suppress the Caesar Chavez led civil protests in the 60′s of the United Farm Workers…
    While the public image of SWAT first became known through the LAPD, perhaps because of its proximity to the mass media and the size and professionalism of the Department itself, the first SWAT-type operations were conducted north of Los Angeles in the farming community of Delano, California on the border between Kern and Tulare Counties in the San Joaquin Valley. At the time, César Chavez’ United Farm Workers union was staging numerous protests in Delano, both at cold storage facilities and outside non-supportive farm workers’ homes on city streets. The Delano Police Department responded by forming ad-hoc units using special weapons and tactics. Television news stations and print media carried live and delayed reportage of these events across the United States. Personnel from the LAPD, having seen these broadcasts, contacted Delano and inquired about the program. One officer then obtained permission to observe the Delano Police Department’s special weapons and tactics units in action, and afterwards took what he had learned back to Los Angeles where his knowledge was used and expanded on to form the LAPD’s own first SWAT unit.

    FL_ Watch the documentary called 41st & Central….did you know, that the SWAT teams have a patch that is the numbers 41, for the first SWAT action against the Black Panthers in Los Angeles.Which – if you know Pat, like we know Pat, you know it ended badly.

  45. Reality Is :Standard civil suit. He won’t get a penny out of it. Happens here and there in the same situations. Unfortunate? Yes. No one’s fault but his and the family that called. Next.

    Have you ever heard of the is/ought falicy? Maybe I should say the Reality is/Reality ought falicy.

    Despite others who are aggrivated that you are commenting, I have always appreciated and learned fom your comments. However, when you refer to a police fuck up as boring and normal, I know that this acceptance is the point that society needs to press against.

    I trimmed and removed treesfor 31 years, and ahve performed five more jobs in this past 32nd year. Twice I have hired in a crane to help. I was in the office of my favorite landscape contractor four weeks ago. On his wall was photo of a big tree crane removing a huge tree truck from the property of a beautiful two-story home.

    The crane was standing on its rear wheels with the cab high in the air at almost a 90 degree angle. The tree trunk was also straight up at a 90 degree angle through the center of the house.

    The consequence of trying to lift too heavy a load.

    I laughed my head off. Just another tree accident. They happen all the time. I was glad it was not me. Then again, there was the time I knocked out power to 2 square miles of Anaheim with a single palm frond.

    Perhaps there are people who routinely investigate tree accidents that are as bored as you are with stories of police misconduct. Still, we should not be so bored that we neglect to prevent the next tragedy.

  46. The paramedics were ignorant ROOKIE-douchebags. The old man called cause his son took a bunch of SLEEPING PILLS. Guess what effect that has on people. Hmm, it makes them sleep. The old man was concerned the son WOULDNT WAKE up from his ‘overdose’.
    As a paramedic AND and instructor, I teach and preach SCENE SAFETY but, at some point common sense must prevail and the medics could have quietly slipped into room and slid the little mouk onto the stretcher and been halfway to the hospital before Jr. realized where he was.
    Realistically, cops nowadays are scared…of getting killed. They have families, want to go home at the end of their shift like everyone else. In our society today, people mistake kindness and respect for weakness, which is why most cops now are forced into putting on their ‘ASSHAT FACE’ when they interact with the public. Another problem is that you give a young man a gun, too much freedom, not enough supervisor exposure and their level of testerone…it’s a mix for disaster. The majority are great people Only people who are related to them really know how scared they are; most others dont.
    As a medic, we take no one to jail so no one really looks at us a threat. The paramedics were rookie dumbasses that didn’t really do a scene survey, otherwise this conversation would be mute. The nicest cops I ever saw worked Oakland…cause you gotta start with respect both ways. The streets are mean–both ways.

  47. AntiCorruptionUnit :Well Mr.Doe how do you know what I know or don’t know?
    Why don’t you and RI if your not one in the same quit talkin your smack and meet me. Then you can tell me I am stupid to my face.
    I always appreciate an intellect like yourself setting me straight.
    You up to the challenge??

    O my gawd…………..I want ringside..I will offer up my house, for this debate. I promise. O this would be stellar.

  48. Gennaco is gonna be hired again by the city to investigate this incident and I do believe he will find that all was done within policy and the policy does not need to be revised. All this can be had for only another $100,000 payment to the Gennaco law firm.

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