Fullerton Police Chief (Finally) Clears the Name of Kelly Thomas; Cicinelli’s Step-dad Not Happy About It.
This piece was sent in yesterday by an FFFF reader who calls himself Brandon. I’ve also included a video of the acting chief making the city’s announcement.
Well it took 14 months but the Fullerton Police Department finally admitted what many had suspected since the beginning- Kelly Thomas was not doing anything wrong the night he was harassed and eventually beat to death by 6 Fullerton Police Officers. According to a statement made by Fullerton acting chief Dan Hughes, “There is no evidence of which the Fullerton Police Department is now aware that Kelly Thomas actually tried to steal anything from any of the vehicles in the lot.”
While this information is not surprising to anyone who has been reading the Friends for Fullerton’s Future blog over the last year or so, it is a victory toward holding the officers involved in the beating death accountable. A large part of the defense of the two (and soon to be possibly three) officers currently facing charges in the case rests on Thomas’ “criminal” behavior on the night he bludgeoned, electrocuted, and suffocated to death by six of Fullerton’s finest. With this admission by Chief Hughes, the lawyers for Manuel Ramos and jay Cicinelli will likely have a difficult time trying to convince a jury that Thomas was asking for his deadly beating that night. Of course the attorneys representing the ex-officers will no doubt still try to paint Thomas as a dangerous criminal whom their clients were afraid of that night. But when you are defending one of the most heinous, callous murders ever caught on tape, you have to draw at straws in order to have a chance at getting your clients off.
While many are no doubt happy to see the FPD finally confirmed what they had been suspecting and postulating on for over a year, relatives of the accused are not among those rejoicing. John Huelsman, the stepfather of Cicinelli tried to blame the current Fullerton City Council for directing Hughes to make the statement. “This is a criminal matter,” Huelsman told reporters. “These guys can go to prison… and the City Council just said they’re guilty because Kelly Thomas was innocent.” Talk about overstating the obvious. Mr. Huelsman’s incredulity at the fact his step-son could possibly be complicit in the murder is rather amusing given all of the evidence supporting it. And I don’t think the Fullerton city council has to tell anyone that your step-son and his comrades are guilty. We’ll let the video evidence and eye witness reports do that.
Kelly Thomas’ picture is used in the Wikipedia page for “Police Brutality”
“Police brutality is the wanton use of excessive force, usually physical, but potentially in the form of verbal attacks and psychological intimidation, by a police officer.
Widespread police brutality exists in many countries, even those that prosecute it.[1] It is one of several forms of police misconduct, which include: false arrest; intimidation; racial profiling; political repression; surveillance abuse; sexual abuse; and police corruption.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality
http://www.policebrutality.info/
Let’s see the entire statement, rather than just claiming that Kelly Thomas was “cleared”.
Here it is:
“In the past year there has been a request by Ron Thomas to clear the name of his son, Kelly Thomas. The Mayor and city council have asked me to work with Mr. Thomas in an effort to understand what that exactly means and, working with him, we have jointly agreed on the following:
‘On the night of July 5, 2011, Kelly Thomas was in possession of a backpack. Inside the backpack was a passport, a computer tablet, mail addressed to an attorney, and keys to a Lexus. None of these items belonged to Kelly Thomas. It was later learned, after the date of the incident, that the owner of the backpack inadvertently left his backpack in a public place, and that the keys, passport, and computer tablet belonged to the owner of the backpack. It was also later determined the attorney to whom the mail in the backpack was addressed had thrown the mail away in a public trashcan. There is no evidence of which the Police Department is now aware that Kelly Thomas stole the backpack and its contents.
‘None of the officers involved in the Kelly Thomas incident suffered any broken bones, as was initially reported by the hospital. On the night of the incident, hospital officials provided a Doctor’s First Report form indicating a diagnosis of fractured ribs involving one of the officers and another officer required minor surgery but subsequent doctor visits revealed the ribs were strained, not fractured.
‘Finally, on July 5, 2011, the Fullerton Police Department received a report from a citizen who advised the Fullerton Police Department she observed Kelly Thomas attempting to break into vehicles. This was the only call received regarding such observations. With the exception of this report, there is no evidence of which the Fullerton Police Department is now aware that Kelly Thomas actually tried to steal anything from any vehicles.
Based upon the statement, Kelly seems to be guilty of Possession of Stolen Property, or Misappropriation of Lost Property. We’ll never know what his intent was, because he died as a result of unnecessary escalation by Ramos before he could answer that question. However, let’s not kid everyone into thinking that Thomas was going to return the property to it’s rightful owner or turn it into the PD as the law requires.
The statement absolutely does NOT “clear” Thomas’ behavior that night.
“seems” to be guilty
“never know intent”
“let’s not kid everyone”
Can we say;
Your statement does NOT “convict” Thomas’ behavior that night?
Does “seems to be guilty” ever hold up in court here in America?
How does this sound?
Your honor she “seemed” to be ______________ let’s not kid ourselves, let’s guess her intent and convict her.
Yep, I’m sure that would get a good laugh.
Obviously, he can’t be guilty of Possession of Stolen Property if the property wasn’t stolen. Is there a Misappropriation of Lost Property law? I know you want him to be guilty, but come on.
Come on what? It’s ok for Kelly to be a criminal. This is not the first time he has stolen property. He has a very long rap sheet.
I know, let’s ask Kelly Mejia, the little thief who put her bag of chicken on the iPad and walked off with it trying to find the owner.
Hahahaha!
According to Fullerton City Council guidelines ………. Mejia did not steal it since someone inadvertible left it behind ….ha ha – it’s not stealing ….. RIGHT…..so let’s clear Mejia :}
For Marsha:
California Penal Code Section 485:
485. One who finds lost property under circumstances which give him knowledge of or means of inquiry as to the true owner, and who
appropriates such property to his own use, or to the use of another person not entitled thereto, without first making reasonable and just efforts to find the owner and to restore the property to him, is guilty of theft.
“give him knowledge”… you really think he could do this? “without first making…efforts to find the owner”… yeah, right
His mindset/condition was in no way conducive to him doing so!
Kelly has already been deemed by the court to be competent enough to stand trial and know right from wrong. He knew what he was doing.
What idiots! If Kelly did anything criminally wrong, he would have been charged. What’s your defense now? All cops are stupid?
Hello? If he was cuffed that night he would have gone to jail and been charged with 496 PC. Would the DA have filed the case? We will never know. People get arrested everyday and the DA doesn’t file the case. But it’s a 100% fact he was going to jail for at least 48 hours for a felony.
“But it’s a 100% fact”
Too bad we’ll never know that, O’Malley. Those fat, GED cretins saw to it.
Well. True. A power above.
He was charged by other PDs and let me tell you he was a menace to society. Do your homework RD.
Know that’s a good on R.D. Charge a dead man…….dumb ass.
Other instances have been shown where Kelley returned lost property he found. If he were a thief he could have bolted from those two fat, sissy FPD fucks in about three seconds. Why didn’t he do that, Sherlock? Because he knew he hadn’t done anything wrong.
Um duh. Anyone can run from cops anytime they want. Most get caught not because the cops caught them but because they have radios and more people to help, dogs, etc. So yes he could have run. But because he was 836’able for 496PC which is a felony he would have been caught and bit by a dog. So he could have thought that but if it happened today he would go to jail and be charged until the property owner is located. Happens everyday. Just like if someone has trash stripped wire today walking the street. They go to jail for 496 and may or may not be charged by the DA but will sit in jail for a few days until that is determined.
836, 496? What is this, Barry Coffman’s cholesterol?
Desert Rat….. He has along history of doing similiar crimes why would this one be any different. Once a thief always a thief…
Once a killer always a killer
Marsha,
He left the train station with propertry that did not belong to him…..That’s called stealing. We are taught that if something does not belong to you it is not yours. The right thing to do is turn it in so that the person who lost it can claim it.
Lord – I hope you are not every responsible for intepreting the law… Garbage is not stolen property. Having someone else’s property is not stealing. Taking something that belongs to someone else (like an Ipad)…that is stealing…
Balls 3..Ramos gave him plenty of chances and time to comply and answer the questions and give his name. Unnecessay my ass. Ramos had more patience than I would of. I guess you haven’t herd the new audio.
What new audio are you referring to?
The audio from the first part of Ramos’ conversation with smelly Kelly. It was not included with the video it was found later by internal affairs. It’s online.
Wait for the audio…wait till you see the video…wait, wait wait. Every step of the way we’ve been told how some new piece of evidence will exonerate these thugs…and some how they seem as guilty as ever…
You guys keep trying though…can’t wait to see what your next “bomb shell” will be that will make everything okay….
And WTF “smelly Kelly”…really? How fucking old are you. It’s disgusting what little regard you have for life…any life, no matter where you stand on the issue. You really do not represent well. If you are LE…you are your own worst enemy.
It’s online. No need to wait for any of it.
The other yes, so much that you fools don’t know that you just make up. Yes, there is a “bomb shell” of facts coming all in due time but before Nov. 30.
**********Ron you should probably start taking stock of the “real” relationship you had with smelly. Remember 2nd grade?********
Really? You’re right, he was REALLY smelly!
With all due respect….
As a police officer, I’ve got a pretty informed perspective on things here. Verbally, Ramos was fine up until the point where Ramos clearly lost his temper. I have issues with any police officer who is playing with their baton during a contact like that, whether he is doing it consciously or not. It’s unprofessional. From a safety standpoint, his hands should not have anything in them. From an appearance standpoint, it just looks bad, and if something happens, well, now one of your hands is occupied by a baton and you’re more likely to use it than some other tool (Taser, pepper spray) that might be more effective and appropriate. Ramos escalated this unnecessarily. I understand the filing of charges against him, however, he was overcharged and I don’t think it will stick anyway. Nonetheless, based *solely* upon what I saw in the video (and, yes, I heard the other audio), if that was typical behavior for him on his contacts then that should have been recognized as a problem by his supervising Sergeant and other co-workers long before Kelly Thomas, and corrective action should have been taken. Thomas was not without fault, obviously, as he clearly physically resisted what was a lawful detention. It’s just that he should not have died as a result of this contact.
Ciccinelli was also overcharged, however, a lesser charge will likely stick. Wolfe, and for that matter, the rest of the officers on scene, should not be charged or lose their jobs.
Police officers get a bad rap as a whole when they blindly defend all actions of all police officers. I tell it like it is. I’ve never lied, exaggerated, embellished, etc., EVER in my career, and I’m not gonna whitewash an unnecessary death like in the Thomas case. It didn’t need to happen and it shouldn’t have happened. There’s plenty of blame to go around, and some of it also belongs to Thomas. However, it’s clear that nobody on scene that night intended for Thomas to die, and the filing of a murder charge is just ridiculous political posturing by Tony Rackaukas, who I consider to be a untrustworthy politician not fit to hold the position.
Problem on FFFF is that the vast majority of people here are polar opposites unwilling to consider the arguments and logical reasoning of the other side. Too much name calling. Part of my effort in posting is an attempt to give a balanced view of what happened and to show people that not all police officers, and, in my experience, only a very small minority of police officers, think that Thomas’ death and everything FPD did at the scene was justified. Most of us feel the way I do, and have used the video as a training opportunity to show how one initial error hand handling a contact can escalate into a series of bad mistakes magnifying each of the prior mistakes into a completely unacceptable outcome of an unnecessary death of a suspect.
Just seems like the majority of people here think all police officers are evil, lying bullies, and it’s simply not true.
I don’t think that is exactly right, Most people here think some cops are ruthless, evil, lying bullies, and all the other ‘good’ cops are silent.
Yes Nipsey. All cops are well aware of how this group thinks.
🙂
Cold Chillin’ Cop Balls 3 (hereafter “Cold Balls”) writes a well written post with some very good points. I just take issue with a couple of points.
First, nothing the clever FPD supporters can say can cover up the 10 ton elephant in the room: that no human being should be beat to death the way Kelly was at the hands of FPD Officers. Further, resisting arrest should not result in someone being beat to death the way Kelly was beat to death by the FPD officers. What the FPD officers did was despicable and did not come out of nowhere; such behavior clearly results from a culture developed over time where the FPD Officers believe they were above the law and untouchable by the lowly citizens they terrorized.
Second, Kelly had the property of another in his possession. Notably, all of us, including myself, will have the property of another in our possession at some point in time. I sincerely hope that America does not degrade into a place where government officials can stop someone at will and make them verify they own the property in their possession just a whim. However, the police received a call informing the police that the caller had seen Kelly trying to break into cars. Thus, when the phone call is added to the facts, it becomes reasonable for one to at least believe in the possibility that the property and Kelly’s possession was not his and stolen. If true, the FPD Officers actions in stopping and searching Kelly were very appropriate.
However, such is only true if the phone call was not some prearranged scheme between the Slidebar/caller and the FPD Officers that frequented that bar. It is my understanding that the slide bar employees had called the cops on Kelly frequently in the past and they were frustrated that Kelly kept coming back. Additionally, there is evidence that FPD officers coached the Slidebar employees what to say when they called the police so that the police would have probable cause to search and arrest Kelly. If such is true, then all involved are despicable humans that need to be in jail and Kelly should not have been stopped and harassed.
Third, the above conspiracy theory would not be worthy of consideration but for the culture of corruption that the FPD has demonstrated in the past. I’m not going go into detail here about all past illegal actions of the FPD as such list is too long but such illegal behavior of FPD police officers included: theft, perjury, false arrest, sexual assault while in uniform and the police car.
One FPD police officer, Hamilton, beat an innocent citizen, accused this innocent citizen of resisting arrest, lied about such facts in a police report, lied about such facts under oath, and thereby caused such innocent citizen to spend months in jail. But for a third party video recording of the events, such innocent citizen would still be in jail and Hamilton’s and the FPD Police Department’s treachery would never have been uncovered. What a despicable group of human beings and these humans have been given a badge, a gun, and power to be beat people to death under the color of authority.
The only thing that stopped the FPD to date from continuing the corruption is video; otherwise they would still be at it today and the name “Kelly Thomas” would simply just be another punch line in the jokes they told during their private parties.
Forth, so when the FPD refused to do anything about Kelly Thomas murder for over a month until it became clear that the citizens of Fullerton have had enough and their culture of corruption was going to be put under a spotlight, the people were not impressed with the FPD’s newly Found integrity. I am still not impressed.
So, Cold Balls, when you state: “Just seems like the majority of people here think all police officers are evil, lying bullies, and it’s simply not true.” : such a statement is not accurate.
I certainly don’t believe that ALL police offers are evil. In fact, if I were to come upon two people struggling with one being a police officer and the other being a citizen I would have absolutely no problem helping the police officers subdue the citizen. I would do such without even being asked and I wouldn’t even give it a second thought as I am confident that most police officers are honorable people and therefore the odds would be in my favor that I would be helping the right person.
That said, I wouldn’t walk across the room to spit on the FPD Police Officer if he or she were on fire. It is unacceptable for a people to have to walk around with video cameras so they can record evidence that will hopefully keep the police department from beating them to death or making up lies that could send them to jail. Whether you wish to believe it or not, such is the kind of police department one has in Fullerton. Sad really. There is no redemptin for the FPD. They simply need to go away.
Agreed, however I believe that you meant to say “Hampton” and not “Hamilton”.
Kenton Hampton is the officer who was seen roughing up an onlooker for shooting video of an arrest, and was also at the Kelly Thomas beat down.
Kevin Hamilton was still back at the police station looking at himself in the mirror, and wondering whatever happened to his soul?
Right, “Hampton”, not “Hamilton”, I use speech recognition software and I must’ve butchered the way I said his name (I need to proofread more closely the text generated by my speech recognition software).
Excellent post, Cold Balls. I know lots of police officers and the vast majority are not only good at their jobs, but they’re good people, too.
There’s got to be a way for a guy to get through to his command about a problem officer without fear of banishment or retribution. That would go a long way towards “fixing” things.
That bastard never bothered addressing all the other arrested, convicted, accused cops in the Fullerton bullpen.
The cops and their apologists (like Lou Fonzi) have one strategy: limit the conversation to a single “unfortunate” incident and then try to spin away from that.
Well, we aren’t buying that. There is a Culture of Corruption in the FPD and because the cancerous tumor has not been acknowledged by Hughes & Co,. let alone surgically removed, the cancer will keep metastasizing. It’s unavoidable.
Well said Balls. I used to type responses like this a year ago but gave up. Couldn’t have said it more perfect. Well done.
🙂
Cold Chillin’ Cop Balls 3:
Using a name like that shows what kind of cop you are. Instead of using a proper name, you use a hate filled name. You’re a f’ed up cop who shouldn’t have a job anymore because of your hate. Can’t believe how stupid you are using that name.
But RD all cops are rabid and crazy and nuts so why does it matter?
🙂
“hate filled name”? Huh? Care to explain that to me?
Cold Chillin’ Ball licking 3:
Are you that stupid?
Yes, I’m serious, R.D. You’re either a troll or have a very bizarre thought process, and I’m really interested in your honest answer. Don’t answer a question with a question. How is my screen name “hate filled”?
RD is bizarre, haven’t you seen him at the council meetings?
RD you have no sense of humor.
Hmm. Due respect. Funny.
Let’s say for the sake of argument I was interested in your opinion on cop “professionalism.”
How would you rate the behavior of the following FPD personnel with regards to professionalism:
1) Albert “Alby Al” Rincon
2) Those in the FPD who knew about him and did nothing; those who knew and put him back on the street
3) Miguel Siliceo, the cop who through laziness or malice identified the wrong man, who was unjustly prosecuted.
4) Kenton Hampton who attacked and arrested Veth Mam for no reason and later colluded with Frank Nguyen to cook up a story.
5) Todd major; drug addict, con man and thief
6) Kelly Mejia; thief
7) April Baughman; thief
8) Christopher Wren, who falsely imprisoned some kid in Chino
9) The Fullerton Six (oops, there’s Hampton again)
10) The watch commander Tom Basham who watched the whole Thomas killing and then, presumably, coached the Six as they watched the video to get their stories.
And while your at it please explain why Hampton has been named in other civil charges as does Tong and I believe, Thayer.
And how would you assess Dan Hughes, who denies the Culture of Corruption?
Let’s hear you tell it like it is.
I accuse the FPD of a Culture of Corruption. Call if a Culture of Complacency if you want to soft soap it.
Either way there’s a real problem and the “professionals” haven’t said shit.
Cop Balls, answer these questions.
What? You think I’m going to defend all these people simply because they’re cops?
Very briefly….
I don’t know much about many of these people, and I know a little about some.
Rincon & Mejia? Good riddance. I have a low threshold for knowing and intentional dishonesty.
I think Dan Hughes is doing a good job. You can look up my prior posts regarding how I feel about him. I don’t feel the need to rewrite what I’ve already written.
I don’t think much of McKinley and Sellers, and my opinion existed prior to the Kelly Thomas incident. I actually didn’t think much of FPD leading up to it either.
The others? I don’t know enough about those issues/people/incidents to comment.
“Culture of complacency” is far more appropriate than “culture of corruption”, and I think that’s changed.
I don’t speak for all cops. I’m comfortable commenting on the Kelly Thomas case because there’s video.
I’m a Fullerton resident, unlike many of the posters here. Also own a business in town. I’m also quite familiar with OCSD.
FPD is on a good path. I think switching to OCSD would be a very bad thing for Fullerton. It might save some money in the short term, but you’ll have a lower level of service, and if OCSD came in and FPD was abandoned, well, after FPD is gone it’s very easy for OCSD to vastly increase their cost to the city after the expiration of the first contract, because they know there’s no going back to a city PD after they come in.
Can’t stand Booshala and Kyger. Election was bought. Their blind hatred for the PD and past council members prevents them from making rational decisions. Kyger seems more like a teenage flamer hiding behind a keyboard waiting to pounce on anyone who voices a conflicting opinion, and I don’t think he has the maturity, knowledge, and spirit of cooperation to be an effective council member. His vote to reject the DUI grant funds on the basis of his (wrong) personal opinion regarding the legality of checkpoints and refusal to consider what his constituents want is just mind boggling.
Hopefully you’ve noticed through my posts that I prefer reasoned logic over name calling. Kyger and Booshala, and most of the people posting on FFFF on both sides, prefer name calling.
The post was from me….recently cleared cookies and didn’t notice my name wasn’t there.
With due respect to you, Officer, I agree. Not all cops are bad in the sense of evil. Many though are lying bullies, not all, but many. You may never have tesilied, etc. in your career, but have you turned a blind eye on another cop who did? Let’s face it, when Frank Serpico was shot in the head, it was probably good as well as evil corrupt fellow cops that never answered his calls, desperate calls, for backup, leaving him hanging out to dry, and hoping he’d be killed, right? More recently, in Fullerton, you’d never know there were any good cops, not one has stepped across the thin blue line and spoke the truth. Unless of course you’re a Fullerton cop, in which case thank you for your honest statements. There was a scene in the Frank Sinatra movie the Detective I think where a patrolman “accidentally” shoots an innocent, unarmed motorist, as I remember he’s startled and shoots. The captain says something to the effect that he’s not making it go away to save the cop, but to protect the department. Unfortunately today they protect themselves anyway they can, lie, false reports false arrests, what the hell send an innocent person to prison, or the death chamber, better him/her than them, right?
And as a police officer you should know that the evidence presented was all from the DA and not the defense. You say Kelly shouldn’t have died, yet you don’t know why he died and it wasn’t in the hands of the police officers. I am sure the video will be the topic of alot of briefings. You don’t know the reason why Ramos had his baton out. Kelly looked like a dirty ugly caveman. And he was responding to a call,of a guy trying to break into cars. Being a cop you should know every situation is different. You were not there. Maybe the policy on batons is different at your department. I think Ramos was pretty calm up to the minute he had it with Kelly. Ramos took a lot of shit from him. Don’t judge before you know all the facts. Have an open mind. Innocent until proven guilty.
OK,
This is what happens when people define themselves by their jobs…Kelly was a man, Ramos is just another man, underneath the uniform and badge that is. There was no need to for Ramos to degrade, abuse or lord over Kelly, a fellow human, being because he was in a position of authority. That authority position should comes with the responsibility to be compassionate and empathetic to your fellow man.
Obviously, Kelly was no threat to Ramos, but since Ramos was wearing his Authority Uniform, he was compelled to forget his humanity and instead take the dominant male animal posture. He was not looking for Kelly to comply, he was looking for Kelly to submit to his authority….big difference.
To CD …. How do you know what Ramos was thinking….. RIGHT…YOU DON’T KNOW
I read the medical report. Kelly Thomas was beaten so badly that he would have died anyway. His body endured such a severe beating that the resulting chemical emitted by his muscles damaged his organs. When this happened, only the most urgent medical response would have saved him.
If you’re going to clear something up, clear this apparent refusal to investigate the relationship between the Fullerton P.D and the Slide Bar.
Why didn’t the phone call that was made by the employee show up on normal police records? Who gave out this number and more importantly, why was it given out?
Why is the Fullerton P.D concealing the non-violent contacts with Kelly Thomas in the past? Think I wouldn’t catch that? The officer in the second video clearly expresses that Kelly Thomas was never a problem.
Then there is the laughing about Kelly Thomas losing control of his bowels. This is what happens when people believe that death is imminent. Kelly Thomas was experiencing a tremendous amount of terror and believed he was about to die. Shit, I fucking knew this because the man was screaming it in the video.
This is how people become infuriated. When people try to minimize that which has offended all their senses.
@ Cop Balls (lol) I would think that Kelly’s mental illness would be taken into account for his resisting. Being afraid and aggitated due to his illness and also being threatened. Were it not for his illness, he would not have been on the streets
@ John Doe “Would of”?, it’s “would have”, you dumb Nazi
Don’t That make him guilty? Do you really think Kelly was going to say he stole it? Yes, we do know what he’s intent was TO STEAL AND SELL PROPERTY THAT DID NOT BELONG TO HIM…. after all he was not turning it in to the train station lost and found department… RIGHT!
“Yes, we do know what he’s intent was TO STEAL AND SELL PROPERTY THAT DID NOT BELONG TO HIM”
What are you, in the first grade? Not to worry, you will be learning all about pronouns and contractions this school year.
What are you in pre school jealous of a 2nd grader. Get over it.
“Don’t that make him guilty?”
HA HA HA
Typical moron
Wouldn’t Kelly’s mental incapacitation be considered when it comes to Kelly returning the backpack? It’s not as if a severely schizophrenic person is going to look at a backpack lying on the ground/a bench, etc., and think “Oh yes! Here is a lost backpack! I’m going to immediately go to a telephone and notify the owner.” Kelly couldn’t even find his own shirt let alone a telephone to notify the backpack owner.
They just want to blame the victim, Elaine, they’re not interested in realities
Spanooch: Agreed.
All of that is nothing compared to all of the trouble smelly Kelly got into with other police departments.
they aren’t accused of killing him – maybe they were better equipped to deal with him (if indeed “other police departments” dealt with him)
No one was better equipped to deal with someone like smelly Kelly. They wouldve all preferred not to have to deal with him at all. Including the officers that night.
And so they killed him. Thanks for a new angle for the prosecution.
I really think you have hit upon the truth. The fat, lazy, incompetent cops of FPD would rather beat you to death than do their jobs. Thanks for the insight.
Now I see where Jay sissy learned his trade.
There are over 35,000 towns and cities in the US and Fullerton is the poster child for police brutality. Acting Chief Hughes and the rank and file have a mountain to climb. No one says that it can’t be done. It won’t be easy. The department’s reputation preceded it long before the murder of Kelly Thomas. Trust can only be regained if it is EARNED back and JUSTICE is served.
So where did you get that information from? Why don’t you post where you got it from? Making up lies like always.
Look up police brutality and Wikipedia has Kelly Thomas’s picture staring you in the face. The US has 35000 towns and cities look it up. No lies you are in denial. The department has long been know to push the envelope especially with the less fortunate, less educated and poorly represented.
You don’t know what police brutality is. People in countries where police brutality truly exists should laugh at you bunch of sissies.
We live in the US. Go move to North Korea and give us a report from behind enemy lines.
I’m not the one complaining. You’re the one who should go check it out and them come back and kiss the ground you walk on. Better yet, make it a group trip and take all the other malcontents with you.
I am fully aware of the tyrannical regimes that crack heads and turn people into blobs for kicks. We are heading down that road here unless we apply the chemo to cancer.
Have you ever met a crack head? Lol
Need to look no further than Kelly’s Rabble.
That slight fellow a couple of threads back called Omaley sure looks like a potential crackhead with those “crazy eyes”, skrawny build, frothing at the mouth. Could be rabid, too.
And he’s a cop? Standard. You have to be half nuts and rabid to be a cop in 2012. Only an idiot would be a cop today.
We are nowhere near such a thing. Maybe people should just start taking responsibility for the kind of children they raise. Cops don’t have it easy, not by a long shot. All of you shit talkers wouldn’t last a day.
Amen.
We are nowhere near such a thing YET. What is wrong with making sure we never get there. Eyes wide shut please -not in my town.
Messed up kids- you bet and no shortage of that and no end in sight anytime soon. I agree it is a very difficult and dangerous line of work. I wouldn’t want your job.
The government has a hand in the destruction of the family on many fronts. The incarceration rates of young males carries with it a generational curse-fatherless children. Ask anyone in the can or the back of the car today in cuffs where their father is today. Welfare by design keeps the man out of the home. The media keeps the man on his knees and arrest and criminal records keep him under or unemployed as a permanent member of the electronic plantation with an online arrest and criminal record available to any prospective employer for a nominal fee. Kids without a dad can come out ok but it’s a long shot and require an awesome mom-it can be done-
Messed up kids are a product of their environment.
I respectfully submit to all LE that they at this time consider this- does the suspect really need to go to the coroner or through the squad car portal to the electronic plantation in the interest of public safety or is it merely for pinball points for a promotion? In my opinion, aside from the clergy, no other member of our society has a greater responsibility to the common good of society than that of a peace officer. I know there are those of you that are fully cognizant of this. For those that are not or are willfully ignorant of this, may I remind you that someday your spouse,children or your children’s children may find themselves at the mercy of one just like yourself. Consider that.
Truth. Laws are laws. Cops don’t have discretion when it comes to felonies and those are the crimes locking people up for extended periods. Even though felonies aren’t doing much time anymore but the people need to change the laws if you want cops to have discretion on those arrests.
Well said as always Truthseeker.
“Maybe people should just start taking responsibility for the kind of children they raise”
Such as Mr. & Mrs. Wolfe, Mr & mrs. Cicinelli, and Mr. & Mrs. Ramos.
These 3 men ar good men that are involved in a tragedy. They all were not involved in gangs, drugs, graduated and became respectable citizens. They all worked hard for a career. And even if some of you don’t want to recognize it. It is not easy to become a cop it takes alot of hard work. They put their lifes on the line every day, they go out there to confront people you and I would never want to face.
And then they murdered a helpless, innocent, homeless man. Now they are murderers.
Why don’t you ask Cathy and Ron Thomas how they
raised their kid.
.
We don’t know what police brutality is? Is there some outcome worse than death that I don’t know about?
What do they do in those countries? set the corpse on fire after they beat the life out of it.
Perhaps, then they go looking for family members to beat to death.
@Hughes…..et tu Brute?
Hughes didn’t say anything that hadn’t already been said!!! He didn’t clear anything! KT is still responsible for his actions!!
Justice for Kelly ! Hell for u people defending the evil monsters!
Let’s clear something here – How can Kelly be cleared: 1 the backpack he took was left behind at the station meaning the person left it behind by mistake or not it did not belong to Kelly and if he was not stealing it then why did he not taske it to the lost and found at the train station? Obviously once he picked it up and walked off with it he stole it plain and simple. 2. The mail he took was taken from the trash which in Fullerton is a violation. What was he going to do with someone elses mail? 3. He had car keys and a passport which did not belong to him…..Why? Kelly was known by many even though they don’t want to come forward to tell the thruth but he broke into cars at the train station and many of you that now call him an innocent person know that. Clear him what a joke Kelly was a thief and a menace. Stop trying him out to be a hero because he’s a long way from that. Those who knew him know that, that is why he was homeless and hes father had not seen him in 10 years. Ron knows im right. Thruth be said.
Amazing the insanity defense get murderers and child molesters off the hook in the courts but not on the streets of Fullerton. Kelly got the death penalty for holding onto someones trash and lost belongings.
He ran cause he was guilty. Why run? He was answering the officers with no problem. Even if everyone says Ramos was taunting him. He was able to tell Ramos habout his big balls.
Wrong. he ran because he knew Ramos and Wolfe were about to “fuck him up.”
“If you don’t do what I tell you”. Very different, huh Mr. DA?
“If you don’t do what I tell you”.
Not different at all. When is it okay to beat someone if they don’t do what what they’re told? It’s okay that they killed him because he was warned? Nazi
Ok Officer, let’s assume for the moment that you’re right, Capt. Hughes disagrees and said publically that he hadn’t committed a crime, but let’s say for the sake of argument he’s wrong and you’re right. With that said, if I understand you, you’re saying that it’s ok for the six, or any cop, to brutally beat to death, or use any other means to murder any unarmed person. It seems to me that whether he was guilty, or not is irrelevant, and if guilty, but not according to Hughes, didn’t give the six, or you, or any other cop the right, or obligation, to kill him.
LeRoy look at the video. At no time was there six officers on Kelly. There were two officers struggling with him trying to handcuff him. Kneeing him is not going to kill him. Punching him in the ribs is not going to kill him. Autopsy reports no broken ribs. Hitting him with a taser is not going to kill him. Look at Rodney King, they beat him with baton numerous times in the head and face. He didn’t die. The truth will come out soon enough.
Watched the video when it came out, just once was enough. Whether all six were sitting on him at once, all six were involved. If they were civilian participants instead of cops, they’d have all been arrested and charged then their lawyers would have started working to get them off if they could. Instead upon their return to the station, they were laughing and bragging, congratulated and protected by the very people who should have and would have arrested them if they weren’t cops. The remaining three were at the very least accomplices during and after the fact. They like the citizens who pay the huge cost of this, and all, pd’s should have been arrested and the guilt or non-guilt, (I won’t say innocence), left to a jury. Cops like yourself say that the irrate citizens should stay out of it as they don’t have a clue that they’re all cop haters who want a lynching, blah, blah… What they really want is that you and other, all other, cops answer the same as they’re required to, in other words the end of the double standard. The end of you’re protecting and covering up for other cops, the end of omerta and the blue line of silence, or that you do your job. Regarding the “brotherhood” others protect their “brothers” too, the KKK, the Nazis, well you get the idea. I’ve worked my whole life and known lots of people, not one of whom I’d consider a brother, or protect, cover up for, whitewash, or keep silent for, if he or she committed a crime, let alone a murder. Yes under Calif. law if a death, intended or not, results from a felony, it’s murder. But of course a trial and a jury make the final determination, right?
@Mickey Haller
Yes, his ribs *were* fractured and the injuries to his face were so severe he exphixiated on his own blood
http://laist.com/attachments/laist_lauren/Kelly_Thomas_Hospitalized.jpg
*asphexiate
I’ve already said that Kelly shouldn’t have died that night and that FPD is responsible.
You illustrate the problem with so many people here. You are so consumed with your vision of “justice” for 6 “murderers” that you don’t bother to read, ingest, and consider what other people with somewhat differing opinions are actually posting.
Heinous acts sometimes have a way of skewing our objectivity, and overriding our sense of reason, however I do see your point CCCB3.
You know nothing.
humility is the key to education mi amigo.
If his parents would of taken care of him he would still be alive. How about putting the blame where it belongs.
Yes, you just go on & on about Kelly being a thief. He never murdered anyone. You can’t say that about the cops, now, can you? Just keep on defending murderers.
I am defending them cause they are not murderes.
A man died at their hands. To any clear thinking person that makes them murderers. Which is what Ramos is charged with
QUICK, where are all the hateful comments from people that wouldn’t dare say anything to anyone’s face and that can’t seem to believe what their eyes saw on that tape. Those 6 cops are guilty as sin, and if you saw the tape and still think the cops did nothing wrong, then that is a sin in itself, good luck with that. Justice for Kelly Thomas, Copsniffers, the floor is yours!
“Of course the attorneys representing the ex-officers will no doubt still try to paint Thomas as a dangerous criminal whom their clients were afraid of that night.”
This is exactly what came to mind when I first saw the tape, with Ramos walking up to Kelly in the first few minutes, swinging his baton around.
Was he diliberately being a menacing punk or was he afraid of Kelly Thomas? Even if he WAS afraid of Kelly, that is an extremely weeeeeaaaak defense, considering he is supposed to be a brave law enforcement officer.
Crazy people can justify anything they or others do!
What a difference a year makes…A little over a year ago Hughes and Hamilton responded to the station called the IT guy from home to pull the video and once they watched it told ALL the officers they did a good job. He claimed he didn’t hear the audio but that was a lie. Goodwrench spun a story about injuries to the officers which everyone(at the PD) knew wasn’t true. Now Hughes, with his tail between his legs, clears Kelly. Sad how the watch commander, T Basham, retired and gets hired back as a paid reserve. K Hamilton, aka the Bone retires and gets to Bone whoever he wants and now Hughes scrambling to save his ass bcuz he’s 48 and has two years to retire….. RIP KT
That old man is nuts. I feel sorry for the first person to get in that old man’s face. He’s armed to the tilt and has nothing to lose. Use caution.
Another lie. John Huelsman’s only weapons are his words and they are powerful!
If he’s former LE, he’s packing…legally of course.
Actually his words during that meeting with the city council were only powerful in their ignorance.
Kelly cannot be tried and found innocent because Kelly was brutally tortured and beaten to death by police officers who decided to become law maker, judge, jury and executioner.
First, the courts do not try dead people. Thus, to whatever extend Kelly’s name needed to be “cleared”, the only way I know of that Kelly’s name could be “cleared” is the method used by the Fullerton City Council and the FPD.
Second, people are innocent until proven guilty in this country. And since the FPD beat Kelly to death Kelly will remain innocent of any possible charges, forever. The FPD clearing Kelly’s name is a nice gesture but completely unnecessary from a legal point of view.
Third, what the FPD did not say is that the police unreasonably stopped and searched Kelly. They clearly left that door open by saying Kelly had the property of another in his possession and that they had received a phone call saying Kelly was trying to break into cars. Can’t you see what they are doing? The FPD (in open or hidden conference with the police union and their legal counsel representing the cops) are planting evidence that the FPD Officers initial harassment and level of harassment of Kelly was legitimate . . . a necessary first step in their defense.
Yes, his name calling and spewing insults like a raving lunatic were powerful alright
Nice post Brandon!
I see Brandon’s quotes were re written. Good idea. If someone else wrote like Brandon it would be posted as GED headlines all over this blog. You should have put written by Brandon and re written by Tony Bush.
Well that was entertaining.
I don’t understand Mr. H’s problem. He keeps referring to Kelly as a suspect, and how wrong Hughes is for declaring a “suspect” innocent before a trial takes place. BUT, in order for there to be a suspect, a crime had to be committed and Hughes just stated, there wasn’t one. No one filed a police report indicating any alleged crime took place in that lot on the evening of July 5, 2011. No report from a car owner of their car being burglarized or vandalized. There was nothing! So how is it that he would be a suspect or that any trial would take place?
In addition, on many occasions I have in my possession pieces of mail belonging to my family members. They obviously have a different first name and an entirely different last name. Does that mean, using Mr. H’s logic that I can be held over in jail until the said owner of the mail can be contacted and it verified that it’s not stolen. If that’s the case, then we should all be worried.
His son beat an innocent man’s face to hell. That and murder was the crime committed in that lot on the night of July 5, 2011!
Ron is nearing the end of his “honey do” list and I sense a settlement is to follow
He is in negotiations now, but it’s not looking good for him.
Right. If I were on the jury Mr. Thomas would give him so much money the city would have to go bankrupt and the Police fired.
Right. If I were on the jury Mr. Thomas would get so much money the city would have to go bankrupt and close the FPD.
Not happening. This case is far from over. Truth is stranger than fiction.
Ron will not see a penny because he well knows that he was not in Kelly’s life. He threw him away like a piece of garbage. Why do you think his mom is so quiet? She knows the truth about how Kelly grew up. She knows the type of parents that she and Ron were. Cathy knows she doesnt deserve that money. But greed got the best of her.
None of what you say is relevant.
Generally speaking, California’s wrongful death laws permit only individuals with a certain relationship to the victim to file a wrongful death claim. Below are the heirs who may file these actions, in descending order of priority:
• The victim’s surviving spouse, children, dependent stepchildren, dependent minors living in the victim’s household for at least six months, and dependent parents.
(Kelly was not married and had no dependents or children that I know of)
• If there are no heirs as described above, then claimants include those who would be entitled to inherit the victim’s estate under the law of intestate succession: Parents, whether or not they were dependent;
So Ron Thomas can clearly sue for wrongful death as long as there is no othte bar to recover.
Again, I wold give Mr. Thomas such an award the City of Fullerton would go bankrupt thereby forcing the closing of the FPD>
Only if Flory somehow manages to get her old bag of bile elected.
Poor Fred, always the angry blogger. I see your estrogen levels are low again, time for a recharge sweetie.
A lot of it comes down to whether Ron and Kelly share any DNA. Things may not be as clear cut as many believe.
FPD has a recording of Ron saying he isn’t sure he’s the father!! Sad but true
Nice. True FPD style.
It *is* relevant, and the determination as to whether Ron would qualify as a parent depends on far more than his highly visible media presence after Kelly’s death. There have been some statements by Ron which haven’t been clarified….his alleged law enforcement career, his claim to have trained law enforcement in weaponless defense, the rather bizarre claim that Cypress cops were harassing him just by looking at him, etc., and these statements may cast aspersions on his credibility. I’ve only seen two photos published of Ron with Kelly, and they appear to have been taken while Kelly was an adult. Ron’s involvement prior to Kelly turning 18 is far more critical in parental definition than after Kelly turned 18. Lawyers for the city will need to fully explore the relationship to include how much time was spent under the same roof, how involved Ron was in Kelly’s upbringing, discipline, medical treatment, education, financial contribution, etc. Not saying he won’t qualify as a parent, but DNA is a huge part of it, and in the absence of shared DNA, it’s a very subjective issue based upon a whole lot of factors, none of which has to do with his media visibility post-mortem.
Again, such is not relevant.
There are many parents in this country who do not “share any DNA” with their dependent children.
Such a parent has the same rights as the “real” parents, including the right to sue for wrongful death.
“whether Ron and Kelly share any DNA. ”
Huh? Kelly clearly looked like his dad
It takes both parties to settle.
Justice for Kelly!
Christine, you sad little creature.
This statement by “Chief” Hughs does nothing and tells nothing that is not already known.
Except now it’s on the record officially
Oh wow the “record” Leroy what are you in 7th grade!! Really….. The record??? What an idiot! Give it time and all will be forgotten including the “record”
It’s sad that after being assassinated by 6 thugs who never learned to respect human life, now we have to see Kelly Thomas’ character assassinated by their relatives, friends, and colleagues who apparently were never taught that murder is unacceptable under any circumstances, unless their lives are in imminent danger. Let these people who lack regard for a murder victim spin all the lies they want. The Fullerton police chief has absolved Kelly Thomas of any wrong-doing and that is going to severely weaken the defense’s chances of keeping these cretins out of prison. Have to wonder how much longer the other three officers who piled onto Thomas as he was being suffocated to death will remain on the force. I hope public outrage in Fullerton does not die out until ALL of the officers involved are permanently off the streets. Do the citizens of Fullerton really feel safe knowing Kenton Hampton could go into a rage at any time after pulling you over for using your cell phone while driving and rough you up because you disrespect him? Or that Craig or Blatney will stop your son from being unnecessarily beaten if they are called to the scene of a false arrest? While Ron Thomas sounded very arrogant in his speech, I agree with him about the citizens of Fullerton needing to demand change to their police force. If not you will just become numb to the beatings, rapes, and other gross misconduct perpetrated by the boys in blue.
Brandon. Go back to school and get your GED. You need it bad.
GED: “Bad” is an adjective. “Badly” is an adverb. Go back to first grade and repeat it to learn the difference.
Ron Thomas may not be father of the year but a big part of me thinks The Ramos’ Cicinellis, and Wolfes, along with Huelsman could take some parenting lessons from him. At least his kid never beat anyone to death and laughed about it afterward.
Goes to show how much you don’t know.
Do you know something that we don’t know?? Please tell us, did Kelly Thomas beat someone to death and laugh about it afterwards??
The Ramos’, Cicinellis’, and Wofe’s had their fathers and they didn’t get kicked out of their house’s or a restraining order on them. No comparison.
where was jays REAL FATHER? The Real truth is Jays mother is a whore, and thats why Papa Cicinelli hauled ass!!!
How many step father’s does jay have?
You know I’ve given that theory alot of thought.
How would it feel for Jay Cicinelli to watch his real father cuckolded by his mother?
That’s gotta leave an emotional scar on a young man that’s going to be tough to heal.
I’d think that it would lead to a lot of over compensation issues later in life, attempting to ensure that no one ever question’s Jay’s manhood.
Very nice, jay’s father died on duty. He was a police officer.
I give a lot of credit and respect for John H. He raised a boy that was not his biological child. How about Ron? Kelly is not his biological son and he never gave a rats ass until know when dollars are involved.
Very different up bringing.
I meant now
Looks to the rest of the world that he taught Jay the same hate that was spewing from his mouth towards the City Council the other night,
I have no respect for someone that teaches a child to beat up and bully an already restrained man, and then have the nerve to brag to his peers that you beat a homeless man’s face to hell, and then stride into church on Sunday and calling yourself a Christian or “Christ-like”
He wasn’t spewing lies. I think he did a great job in telling the council what a bunch of idiots they were to clear a suspect who was going to be charged with 496.1 pc.
“telling the council what a bunch of idiots they were to clear a suspect”
Uh, “they”? The council didn’t clear anybody (how could they?), Big Chief PoPo did.
hey poodle, there is no SUSPECT because some dirty pigs BEAT HIM TO DEATH, did you not see kelly’s picture? And doc jones dont know a god damn thing! Thats why him and his cronnies got a recalled. and thats why jay got fired!!!
Kelly had returned lost property to it’s rightful owner in the past.
Even the individual who lost the backpack with the computer and car keys inside, has already stated that he left it behind at the train station.
The attorney whose mail Kelly was in possession of, has already stated that the mail had been discarded.
Tell me again how this would add up to constitute a violation of section 496.1 of the penal code?
@Bulldog You keep talking out your ass
He shot him self with he’s police gun, because Jays mom was such a whore.
Maybe he was distracted by an unfaithful wife?
I used to see it happen all the time in the armed forces.
Hard to focus at work when you’re looking back home in the rear view mirror.
Probably because he was an undertrained Moron like his son Jay…
it dont a difference, even if ron wasnt a good parent. THE COPS BEAT KELLY LIKE A BUNCH OF THUGS, even if kelly was a thief or a dick to those cops. IT DID NOT GIVE THEM THE RIGHT TO BEAT HIM LIKE THAT!!!!
so fuck jay and his step dad BTW where is jays REAL DAD probaly doesnt give two fucks and three shits about him. AND THAT MAKES REAL MAD, and a killer.
Calm down real blogger before you bust a nerve. No one beat Smelly Kelly. 5 guys were holding him down and one hit him. But that didn’t cause his death. Even ex councilman Dr Jones said he had seen worst injuries in the battlefield and men survived. If this goes to trial, hope it doesn’t, all you haters are gonna chock on your own tongues when all the evidence that was not presented in the pretrial. The DA presented all of his, which was weak. Wait until you see Barnetts and Schwartz evidence. Schazzam!!
Naw, what I’m waiting to see is how much fun these thugs have with their cellmates in prison.
keep dreaming, it’s good to have HOPE, But the truth is jay bird is going to jail.
shhhhhhbammmmmm!
jays exact words were
“I, I, I ran out… we ran out of options so I got the end of my taser and I probably… I just start smashing his face to hell.” CORP. CICINELLI (AKA JAIL BIRD JAY)
BUT YOU JUST CAN’T SEEM TO COMPREHEND THIS, CAN YOU.
Hey poodle guess what the world isn’t flat. And cops are not above the law.
Bulldog…The OCTA driver stated that he lost count at the times that Jay Ciccinelli hit Kelly in between the eyes with the butt of his Taser, which is every bit as strong as the butt of a revolver
I believe that he said that after a dozen times that he just couldn’t watch any more and had to turn away.
How about Joe Wolfe striking Kelly with his baton?
I think that you are fooling yourself into believing that 3 officers held Kelly down.
It’s clear from the video that they were also pushing off with their feet off of the patrol car and the nearby curb to increase leverage and cause Mr. Thomas’s chest to collapse fom not being able to compress.
Did any of these hyenas offer Kelly ant aid afterwords?
Instead they had the Paramaedics treat their superficial wounds while Mr. Thomas lay unattended.
That’s why their going to prison.
FL.. The bus driver never saw anything, it was the mentally challenged people that rode the bus. They can’t even count.
Your referencing the OCTA bus where the driver interviewed the passengers as they were getting on.
I’m speaking about an OCTA driver who was not inside his bus and on break at the time.
What did cause his death?
Real Blogga’s – You smart ass trying to bring down someone with your hateful mouth – but let’s add to your question — Where is Kelly Thomas real dad? Surprise…. surprise.
Brandon: Hopefully one result of this dreadful event will be the realization for intelligent readers that it is nearly impossible to keep a schizophrenic claustrophobic person off of the ground. Blaming the Thomases is “Ineffective Denial” of what really happened. The Ineffective Denial needs treatment, but we don’t see these critics getting treatment for their condition.
Does anyone know how long it takes for a Grand Jury to make a decision? Just courious!
I was wondering the same thing.
This will happen in Fullerton if they try to charge any of the other three. I don’t think the are that dumb but politics cause dumb reactions. Wolfe would get this too but he already got his medical retirement.
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20120920/ARTICLE/120929973/-1/news?Title=Sarasota-officer-fired-for-excessive-force-gets-job-back-
Why do all you think he got a retirement? You guys are weak.
Sound like a mirror image of Kelly and Fullerton? Maybe if Cici’s taser worked right this would have been Kelly.
Glendale police used a Taser gun to subdue a 35-year-old transient man Tuesday after four officers failed to take him down.
Mario Crane was taken into custody on suspicion of battery on a police officer and resisting arrest outside the Adult Recreation Center in the 200 block of East Colorado Street, according to Glendale police.
Officers on bicycle patrol arrived to the center about 9 p.m. after receiving complaints of possible drug activity in the area, Glendale police Sgt. Tom Lorenz said.
Residents, he said, have complained that transients have been loitering, drinking, using drugs and camping in the area.
After spotting Crane talk to a motorist, officers approached him and he became aggressive, according to police.
Crane allegedly advanced toward officers and slapped another officer’s hand twice.
Officers tried to handcuff Crane, but he resisted and urged them to shoot him, according to police.
Four officers tried to wrestle Crane to the ground, but were unable to and had to use a Taser gun to stun him for 15 seconds, police said.
Even then, Crane continued to resist until three officers were able to take him to the ground and handcuff him, police said.
Another man and woman, who were with Crane that night, were arrested for outstanding warrants, police said.
It’s hot out today. Lets all go to the SlideBar and have some Mac n Cheese and fried pickles. I’ll buy.
🙂
oh shit slidebar takes ebt?
Yes. Almost every place takes EBT now. Our government rules.
Justice for Kelly
Justice for ALL
The part of the statements being made about KT resisting arrest and being held to bearing part of the blame.
This is a most callous statement and reprehensible and cannot be considered in any manner to justify or lessen the blame for the atrocious actions of the FPD.
KT is bearing ALL the blame…his life.
A person is required to state their name only and is not subject to any intimidation or threats for not answering any further questions.
Opening and examining the backpack constitutes an unwarranted and illegal search in violation of Mr. Thomas’ constitutional rights.
However, what is discovered in the illegal search may be used to bring charges and/or presented as evidence at the discretion of the Presiding Judge.
The three police officers, committed mayhem and murder, as a group.
The other three police officers should be charged with mayhem, due to their dereliction of duty by not exercising their responsibility to intervene and de-esculate the scene and protect Mr. Thomas from actions that were beyond any efforts necessary for restraint.
“Half nuts and rabid….Only an idiot would be a cop today” That is a pretty apt description of the “fpd 6”. How very astute of you Pigaluscious.
Following are the lyrics to the Pink Floyd song, “Pigs (Three Different Ones)”
Dedicated to resident pigs Wolfe, Ramos and Cicinelli.
Big man, pig man, ha ha, charade you are
You well heeled big wheel, ha ha, charade you are
And when your hand is on your heart
You’re nearly a good laugh
Almost a joker
With your head down in the pig bin
Saying “keep on digging”
Pig stain on your fat chin
What do you hope to find?
When you’re down in the pig mine
You’re nearly a laugh
You’re nearly a laugh
But you’re really a cry.
Bus stop rat bag, ha ha, charade you are
You fucked up old hag, ha ha, charade you are
You radiate cold shafts of broken glass
You’re nearly a good laugh
Almost worth a quick grin
You like the feel of steel
You’re hot stuff with a hat pin
And good fun with a hand gun
You’re nearly a laugh
You’re nearly a laugh
But you’re really a cry.
Hey you Whitehouse, ha ha, charade you are
You house proud town mouse, ha ha, charade you are
You’re trying to keep our feelings off the street
You’re nearly a real treat
All tight lips and cold feet
And do you feel abused?
…..!…..!…..!…..!
You gotta stem the evil tide
And keep it all on the inside
Mary you’re nearly a treat
Mary you’re nearly a treat
But you’re really a cry.
Roger Waters wrote this about Mary Whitehouse, a British woman who led a movement to keep sex off TV. He felt Whitehouse had no right to decide what other people should watch.
It’s not about the police.
Do some research next time.
It’s also about greed.
Not really about Greed; the son is about “Envy”.
Most people confuse “Greed” with “Envy” and the difference between the two is huge.
“Envy” is driving force behind many bad/evil human actions.
Almost all the greatest advances mankind has achieved over time is a result of what many call “Greed”.
Thanks for the origin of that song Cold Balls…
I just loved the song and thought the title “Pigs (Three Different Ones)” was appropriate.
Never knew what that song was about.
The lines ‘you like the feel of steel’ and ‘good fun with a hand gun’ led me to believe it dealt with cops.
“…three parts, “Dogs”, “Pigs”, and “Sheep”, pigs represent the people whom Roger Waters considers to be at the top of the social ladder, the ones with wealth and power; they also manipulate the rest of society and encourage them to be viciously competitive and cutthroat, so the pigs can remain powerful.” -Wikipedia
When Public Unions in Fullerton are taken over by “Union Drunks” and “Government Heroin addicts”, everybody is POOR!
##############################################
War Pigs -Black Sabbath
“Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of death’s construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh lord yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor
[ Lyrics from: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/black+sabbath/war+pigs_20019418.html ]
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait ’til their judgement day comes
Yeah!
Now in darkness world stops turning
Ashes where the bodies burning
No more war pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees the war pig’s crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing spreads his wings
Oh lord yeah!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbxfe7DMxVo
The double entendre of Rock and Roll has roots in Holy Roller, and strong “Gospel Enthusiasm”, “The old and rich do need ENEMIES other than themselves!”
Well, things are not going well for the police. You have voters finally awakening that their police force is expensive and possibly corrupt. There is no whistleblower fund for good cops to use to get corruption dumped! An IRS whistleblower is receiving over $100,000,000 (the number of zeros are correct folks), for rating on union bank of switzerland hiding assets for US folks!
Wolfe is finally being charged, if the grand jury so wishes and the DA will have to find a level of charges for Wolfe. He is retired, so who pays for his legal bills?
The other two as you can see have been going through hell. Otherwise why would Cicinelli’s father in law be so blindly rabid? He is worried, as he should be. But he should be happy, his son is collecting disability payments of $47,000 per year from losing his eye 15 years ago.
Caught in the middle is Fullerton residents who hope this will all end and go away…..eventually. It will take a couple more years… just a guess.
Tuco you are dumb. Legal Defense Fund pays all of his legal bills. Just like Ramos and Cici. Don’t act so smart when you are as dumb as Fred.
I love it!,
Ha, you certainly couldn’t.
Jesus, Fred. I’ve never seen a grown man so obsessed over the waistlines of other grown men. Do you prefer twinks or bears?
He’ll take either one as long as they aren’t Jewish.
Fred loves cops. Secret.
Maybe Fred is just concerned about the obesity, cardiopulmonary deficiency and high-cholesterol levels of our Heroes.
…Or to put it another way, Rincon or Salicio?
The hamster cage liner showed up in my driveway again today because it is Thursday. Ponzi scheme is still calling the Kelly Thomas murder a confrontation. I guess he needs more than a bludgeoned, electrocuted, dead body, audio, video, and witnesses to arrive at the correct conclusion. The ragister gets thinner and thinner with each passing week.
Cause that is what it was.
Truthseeker…let me tell you from first hand experience that Lou Ponsi is like the cub reporter from high school that the jocks used to kick his ass if he wrote something unflattering about them.
He’s afraid of his own shadow.
I don’t trust a word of what he says.
your poor hampster has to shit on that crap?!
Yeah the paper turns yellow before the uric acid even comes in contact with it. Anyone else notice the same thing?
That’s a hilarious double entendre!
As far as I’m concerned, Orange County Register columnists Frank Mickadeit, Lou Ponsi, and David Whiting are all eunuchs when it comes to their writing style.
Nah, if I had a GED I would be a cop. I have an Ed.S (you boys will likely have to look it up) which requires about 14 times as much schooling as the police academy. I’m not grossly overpaid, but at least I get to help make a difference in children’s lives instead of terrorizing innocent citizens and taking naps at the station. Oh wait, there are six less thugs terrorizing citizens, and three that have more time to take naps at the station because they were reassigned for not preventing the vicious beating death of Kelly Thomas. Must suck to know you are going to be incarcerated soon and will get out with no employable skills. I think I am going to get on to FriendsofJay and make a generous donation now. Anyone know if the Ramos’ and Wolfes are begging for money online as well?
As much schooling as you claim you have, still makes you an ignorant dumbass.
You are so full of it. I’ll bet you a million dollars you are lying. Just like Tony and his boys. Lies lies lies. Bring it.
Brandon. You are full of it. No one that writes like you and talks like you has any education. I’ll bet on that.
No listen to Hughes statement. dumbass
Research? You mean typing the song title in to Google and restating what you read in the first website that popped up? Or did you actually find a Roger Water’s quote to substantiate your opinion?
Since Chillin’ seemed to overlook the fact that it was about “Three Different Pigs,” here is a much more complete analysis from the web.
“Pigs (Three Different Ones)” was a scathing attack on three certain political leaders, one of which was Mary Whitehouse, a campaigner for the ‘clean-up televison’ debate. Here, Roger Waters attacks those who are perched on the top of control, unquestioned and claim to know what’s best for everyone.
That last line sounds an awful lot like established institutions to me. Like the simple minded murderer supporters who blindly support their heinous acts, believing cops can do no wrong.
See boys and girls, the difference between a graduate degree and a GED is that in grad school they teach you to research and analyze empirical evidence instead of twisting the facts to support your own beliefs.
Thanks Fullertonista! Just thankful this site continues to be a leader in exposing injustice and holding government leaders accountable.
Lies: Did they teach you that rewritten was one word at the academy, or just how to eat lots of donuts in order to more effectively suffocate innocent citizens you are sitting on while your partner is beating them to death ? Man, these guys make actual people who go back to school to get a GED look bad. Of course those hard working citizens don’t have a 75K job waiting for them after they get their Equivalency Diplomas.
John Huelsman,
You are absolutely correct that guilt or innocence is determined within the court system. If people like you only wished this for everyone, and not just those you like, respect or think highly of, Kelly Thomas would still be alive.
Your argument depends on the mail within Kelly’s backpack. If Kelly was involved in illicit behaviour, why not drop or hide the back pack? Why did Kelly cooperate when they asked him for it?
The responding officers knew who Kelly was. The video reveals this as the truth. Who was ranting about having to continuously respond to calls involving Kelly Thomas? Remember that part?
Shame that was not part of your show.
Apparently, your time serving in law enforcement did little for you. Captain Hughes made it very clear that Kelly Thomas was exonerated through police investigation. They contacted the owner of the mail and the owner of the other items. Even now you and your ilk continue show very little respect to the facts and the truth.
What you should be doing, is pressuring the Fullerton Police Department to file charges against the person who made the initial phone call.
Now now JD. No need for name calling. I’m sure you’ll still get conjugal visits with Jay in the slammer. Heck, you can probably even service Manny and Wolfie if they are not getting their fill of butt sex.
Jay ain’t doin no prison time. Get a clue.
Oops, that last comment was mine. Don’t want people thinking I am a coward like John Doe, Anon, Anon II, and the rest of the murderer supporters who won’t use their names here.
As if using a first name only is any better.
be quiet swine sack.
I almost forgot to do my civic duty and post this link to the new online voter registraion that the state of California is now offering…
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_vr.htm
I love bacon.
What are you implying? Just curious.
And your name is?
Balls. Cold Chillin’ Cop Balls the Third.
Nice to meet you.
I love Brandon. He’s so dumb he’s almost cute.
Care to back that up…when you are calling someone dumb…by all means, please enlighten us. It’s pretty easy to just insult someone because you don’t want to hear the message…
didn’t Pat McKinley, recently retired fullerton PD chief who hired Cinicnelli and Ramos, and at the time of Kelly thomas murder fullerton city council person, go on CNN and state that the video clearly showing Kelly being beaten to death by his hand-picked officers does not mean his commando squad murdered Kelly
I’ll be for sale soon. When ole Jay gets his felony it will be illegal for what I have locked inside me to be in the house when he comes over after his stint in protective custody.
Not when it’s locked.
ANY arrest-felony or not dooms one in this day and age to life of menial employment or unemployment. There is much discretion for an officer and thus the need NOT to escalate a routine stop for an infraction to a felony with the use of “inciters”. All I am saying is look down the road at the future of suspect-is it really worth feeding him or her to the machine. So many crimes today are actually crimes against the state and administrative actions that really have no business resulting in incarceration. Things need to change. We all need to do our part-raise good kids, teach discretion and most importantly for peace officers to employ it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8RDWltHxRc&feature=player_embedded#!
Can or will this happen here in the US, in Fullerton? Will the police protect us? Will they actually be part of this? Please watch this video. Truth be told folks.
As a Life Member of the NRA this is scary. The gun grabbers are right around the corner. To answer the question look at what happened in New Orleans, that’s what’ll happen in Fullerton. The military, and cops who are former military are trained not to think for themselves, are unable to think for themselves, just follow orders. In the past it wasn’t like that, but now it is. As one person a victim of gun confiscation in New Orleans in one of the videos I watched said, “This isn’t the America I grew up in.” Sadly he’s right.
T-Rack’s case is falling apart against the officers and he is scrambling. Maybe it is Kang-Schroeder who is scrambling.
She is a piece of work.
T-Rack got himself into a mess and does not know how to get out of it without political fallout.
Everyone who knows T-Rack, knows he has aspirations of movin’ on up.
Kang-Schroeder’s spouse is T-Rack’s political advisor-manager, therefore, she wants to make sure that the officers are convicted so that when T-Rack moves on, before his term is over, he can appoint her as the interim DA and then when election time comes around, she can run as an incumbant, giving her the edge and at the same time making her hubby look good.
It won’t be good for T-Rack’s political aspirations if he were to lose on this one.
Lol Jackass! Thats why he’s about to charge another murdering pig. You keep trying to sell that line of bullshit that no one buys for a second! Your pig friends are going down, plain and simple.
Hoooooo boy!
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2012/09/kellys_army_fractured_break_up.php
“We protest in front of Fullerton police department every Saturday, this is what we do,” she said. “For Ron Thomas to trash us when all we want to know where the money is frustrating. I don’t want any more people getting suckered into KTMF when it’s not being handled right.”
And, now, another reason to take a close look at Ron Thomas and his motivations. There’s smoke, but is there fire?
With regard to Huelsman, I have to say I find this specimen to be all too typical of police intelligence.
First he confuses “the court system” to be somehow connected to Kelly Thomas, conveniently overlooking the awkward fact that his out-of-control son-in-law acted as judge jury and executioner on the night of 7/5/11. And this is the whole point of the public outrage: Kelly was denied justice thanks to the Fullerton Six. He is dead. The justice system has no bearing on Kelly.
The justice system however, does have Cicinelli in its clutches, although woefully undercharged by our pathetic DA. And the court of public opinion has and will continue to condemn a Culture of Corruption that has festered in the FPD. Flory can deny it. Hughes can deny it. Quirk can deny it. Goodrich, Coffman and Gennaco can deny it. The cowards left and right can deny it. But we know the truth.
And the truth will set us free; it will not however, set Wolfe, Ramos or Cicinelli free.
It’s almost Christmas. Cops need some more protests. That OT is nice.
Check this out! (via ABC7 Los Angeles local news iPad app) Anaheim PD overtime skyrockets after protests http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/orange_county&id=8820703
Shoot a man in the back, start a riot, gin up a bunch of OT.
Nice
Are spades ever spades?
Keep race outta this.
Oh geez, I didn’t mean that and I’m sorry if anyone took it that way. My point was that to blame the police for a riot is like blaming Baskin Robbins for me eating an ice cream cone.
Unless of course the police cause a riot. Which is exactly what they did in Anaheim.
Your opinion.
No, he’s right. The dumb cops turned a burning dumpster into a riot. They turned loose the dogs and started shooting the residents.
Elaine: I hope this event raises awareness and sensitivity for people with schizophrenia and mental illness in general. It should be a law that all police officers are trained in how to deal with the homeless and the mentally ill. But when you have cops who are mentally ill themselves, or addicts, or sexual predators, or just plain narcissistic, testosterone filled thugs, the likelihood that any amount of training will help is slim.
Cold: My last name is Gault and my e-mail is bjg_24@yahoo.com. None of you murderer supporters on here scare me in the slightest. You are a bunch of uneducated, bigoted, disgraces to the country who just stay silent when anyone points out your blatant lies and stupidity. Like after I noted you didn’t know wtf you were talking about with the “Pigs” song and you failed to reply. Judging by how often you post on here, it’s not because you had anything better to do. Now why don’t you murder supporting cowards post your names and e-mails so we can start some friendly dialogue. That’s right, cause you are pussies who only like to fight when you can hide behind a badge and gun and have six of your bros to back you up.
Brandon: No one should expect a severely mentally ill person to respond to requests in the way that a mentally healthy person responds. Hopefully a Homeless Unit will be formed for the FPD that will know and understand this.
This not only needs to be in Fullerton, but nationally as well.
KL: Yes.
Yes, but you are assuming that Ramos and Wolfe responded to a legitimate call and didn’t know that Kelly was schizo.
They knew what he was and who he was. The question remains: was there a criminal conspiracy against Thomas?
I remain convinced that there was a conspiracy. I also believe that it involved other cops besides Ramos and Wolfe who arranged for a fake call.
I agree Elaine. Especially when the mentally ill person is being purposely and repeatedly confused, harassed, intimidated, threatened, and beaten by a group of vicious thugs. There is supposedly someone at FPD who is trained to deal with the homeless and/or mentally ill. Can you imagine how ashamed this guy must be to work for the same department that supports and protects six officers with such a blatant disregard for the mentally ill. Of course, Hampton and Ramos have been caught threatening and breaking the law with others too, so it’s not a real surprise.
Probably not that embarrassed or ashamed since apparently he whoever he is is supporting and protecting the Fullerton 6 too.
Someone named DiCaprio is the “homeless liaison” for FPD
DiCaprio should be Chief.
Why? I don’t remember him blowing the whistle on the FPD Culture of Complacent Corruption. In fact, he seemed content to ride it into retirement.
He actually IS one of the good guys, that’s all. I do like the term “Complacent Corruption,” it sums a lot of things up nationwide.
Disgusted you are so brilliant!!!!
That’s exactly why he is about to charge Wolff.
You just don’t get it do you?
That’s okay, one of these days it will all be out in the open and written so that even you few who are less than.. well you will understand soon.
Looks Like Jay Sissynelli may be a byproduct of child abuse at the hands of his step father. Just by looking at that clip and how he acts in it may be evidence of a sociopathic upbringing. Should the step father be brought up on charges? He seems to be laying down eveidence that he has an abusuve personality type.
Just like Kelly is the product of a family that didn’t give a rat’s ass about him. You are ready to point fingers at other before you point fingers at the culprit of this mess Ron Thomas for not caring for his son.
Idiot, Schizophrenia is congenital. Try opening a medical book and reading sometime, you moron.
Or even a book. Hell, even a comic book!
Kelly schizophrenic?.what joke. The truth will soon be revealed.
Dear Mickey,
Please write up a blog post on this topic and I will post it – verbatim.
What about it Mickey?
Are you going to hit one out of the park?
Are you going to strike out?
Or are you going to sit on the bench and tell admin that your afraid to swing the bat?
What’s it going to be Mickey Haller?
Hero or Zero?
This is the minor leagues I am saving my “A” game for the big show.
Sorry, that was was for Anon and Admin.
Hey Mickey what kind of dad were you to Jay for him to turn out that way?
You have an “A game?” Now that’s just comical.
What show are you waiting for? I challenged you to write a post. I ‘m sure you can barely write, but your response is to slink off without even trying.
I’ve been challenging the Culture of Corruption to write posts for us for four long years. The response is always the same: crickets.
Poor Mickey with his worm-eaten GED. Asking him to write a coherent sentence is like asking a slug to do a hand stand. Not going to happen.
Think what you want. I know you are dying to know what I know. Even if I write like a 2nd grader, you would be drooling for my information. Keep salivating. Crick, crick….
Kelly was still capable of making his own decisions. He wasn’t as schitzo as Ron Thomas wants you all to think he was.
Weak swing Mick!
Steeeeeeeee-rike One.
You see it in the news tomorrow. 3rd. Gets charged…you want to know the charges?
Wasn’t as schitzo…is that anything like being kinda pregnant?
Concerned Californian, it’s “sort of” congenital. It’s actually a multifaceted illness where “nurture” can aggravate “nature.”
I suggest you do more than “thoughtfully skim” the medical book.
We’re still exploring genetic transmission, however, reproductive success is diminished by those in full-blown schizophrenia. What does that tell you, Concerned?
So Doc, Who on earth decides to be schizophrenic? No one right? What cancer patient ever decides to have cancer? No one right? And under what constitutional right does Kelly’s family have the power to commit him to an institution, or even worse, the police to beat him to death?
This is good but too many brain dead Village People wanna-be donut dunces are still found in the corrupt institution known as the FPD. Until they are washing dishes like they should be, nothing really has changed.
Ron said it best – Cyclops Cicinelli must get electric chair – since he likes dishing it out so much. That clown father-in-law of his needs to learn that “suspect” is INNOCENT until proven guilty. But since Cyclops decided to be a judge and executioner that night, the option of “proving guilty” is not on the table.
Another thing the abuser of the word “pathetic” needs to know is that government is a scared parasite minority, and as soon as the governed withhold the consent, the government is GONE.
This is exactly what is happening in Fullerton – people no longer gave the consent to the previous city council, to the police, and to the DA. yes, i took time (year is way too long), but the government collapsed, replaced, and the process is still continuing. Cyclops father in law needs to get his head from his behind and face the reality. But as a former tax eating cop, it will be hard for him.
My only hope is that citizens of Fullerton get the ultimate gift – Fullerton declares bankruptcy, and parasites like Cyclops father in law get (at most) 15 cents on their pension dollar.
That is why the pay is commensurate, the right to carry and own weapons we cannot is inured, the POBAR protections are liberally granted, and the extensive taxpayer funded training and retirement are all bestowed. Sadly it was all for naughtat the exact moment they crossed the line, violated the public trust, the high law of the land and sent an unarmed homeless man into eternity.
Thank God we all get to retire on the tax dime at 50. Your kids will get screwed and have to work for peanuts. Thanks though for the good ride!
They did not cross the line. That night Capt. Hughes told all 6 they had done a great job. They were within policy but now Hughes is back peddling. Three cops lost their jobs because of an over zealous DA with political gain in his future.
And that’s why we can agree that Hughes is an integral part of the Culture of Corruption. You just hate him because he turned on the murderers.
You could say that. The post it..jerks
Mickey if we subtract 180 degrees from your angle we get the truth without the crystal ball. Thanks for you inverted insight.
How deranged to you have to be to believe anyone who beats, tasers, and suffocates an unarmed, innocent man to death is within policy. It really doesn’t matter what kind of bs you try to spin because three dangerous criminals are off the force permanently and will soon be off the streets. Three cowardly accomplices are off the streets and may be subject to further discipline/charges, and three council-men lost their jobs because of their apathy and disregard for human life. What part of “this gig is up” do you fail to comprehend?
The gig just started..Brandon
It’s amazing how some people, on this blog, can rationalize deadly mistakes like a sociopath rationalizes murder in prison.
“Culture of complacency” is far more appropriate than “culture of corruption”, and I think that’s changed.
How about some evidence to support that claim.
BTW I notice how you quicky changes the subject to the much cozier on of OCSD.
Tell us about Siliceo and mater, and Baughnman (who didn’t act alone); and Tong and Thayer, and especially Hampton who beat up and arrested Veth mam for no reason and cooked up a story after the fact?
No its Corruption, chum, and any denial just reinforces the view that the rot is endemic and that we need outside relief.
They have a lot to hide. The many major crimes documented and how they were mishandled are a indication that there is many many more not reported. The close tie to Rusty Kennedy, evidence of FPD + The OCDA Offices partnerships’, and ties to “The Counties Jobs Program!”
The Feds are leaning on Rackaukas, he has done things that are not his nature, he has a lot to lose. Blame does go where it belongs!
Documented intimidation is all telling!
Overt and complete INJUSTICE with a chuckle, from PSYCHOPAT MCSATAN’S REGIME!!!
They didn’t need to join a gang.
Geo: Good men don’t mercilessly beat an unarmed man to death and joke about it afterwards. What did they graduate from? Many of us spend 7-11 years getting advanced degrees and don’t make their pay for a GED and 9 months in the academy. I won’t argue that some cops work hard, put their lives at risk, and deal with difficult people. However, that does not rectify the actions of a few bad seeds like the FPD six.