Disband The FPD? Really?

The FPOA sure brought out their gang to lean on the City Council the other night. Geez, the whole union might have been there, maybe including the ones that have been charged with felonies by the DA and the ones currently the subjects of an array of civil lawsuits.

Their misinformation pitch that the item was all about disbanding the FPD and not merely soliciting information from the county’s Sheriff Department, helped divert attention from what really happened.

One of our perceptive FFFF commenters appears to have captured the gist of what occurred.

#203 by Down on the Farm on August 9, 2012

Good story, but wrong. The FPOA would be on the spot to start making concessions now, maybe even renegotiating a new contract. They aren’t very smart but I’m sure even the idiot Coffman could figure that out.

It wasn’t about disbanding the FPD. For the union it was all about maintaining the status quo for another three years.

This observation seems to ring true: that what the union was really afraid of was not future disbanding of the department and, a fortiori, their union, but rather that there would be no immediate pressure for them to start negotiating concessions now, instead of in two and a half years.

Which means maintaing the current gravy for another three years. So all that FPOA hysterical sturm und drang was really just a fight to keep things just the way they are. A victory? I guess it depends how you look at it.

 

220 Replies to “Disband The FPD? Really?”

  1. Thanks for the nod. The FPOA is shooting their wad just to maintain the line. Things don’t look good for them. By the time Mardirossian gets through cashing out, 2015 looks to be a gloomy year for the union boys.

    1. The ones cashing out will be the FPD six, not Mardirossian. If I was him I would take whatever Fullerton gives him and skip town.

    2. Either this was a move towards the possibility of replacing the FPD or it was a bluff.

      If it was a move towards replacing them, I don’t see why their reaction was inappropriate. The mistake that Kiger & Whitaker made was giving them a LEGITIMATE reason to be affronted — that there’s three years left in the contract period — as well as a potentially less legitimate one (that they just want to block it.)

      If it was a bluff, then (1) there’s no reason to think that it would have worked, because the FPOA isn’t about to fold, and (2) there’s not really that much to recommend it in the first place. Why get all exercised about a bluff?

      1. Greg, what would be the net impact if the City went BK. American Airlines is currently renegotiating with their Pilot’s Union using this method. Thoughts?

        1. Ask Vallejo. Their main guy says: don’t even try.

          There can be good reasons for municipal bankruptcies, which follow different rules from Chapter 11 restructurings of the type you mention. San Bernardino, for example, which was apparently a victim of massive reporting fraud by staff, has a good reason.

          Fullerton does not come close to having a good reason for a bankruptcy. Fullerton has a theoretical basis for a bankruptcy based on the notion that unfunded pension mandates will eventually crush it — which may or may not be a fig lead for plain old anti-union animus.

          If the Fullerton sages who peddle this idea are right about the prospects of eventual inevitable BK due to pensions, my guess is that an extraordinary number of cities will face the problem and it will probably be addressed by some state or federal legislative solution, a la asbestos.)

          For Fullerton to seek BK protection anytime soon because of this over-the-horizon threat would probably be laughed out of court. Oh, they’d process the BK, sure — but under what I understand to be existing law they would not be able to do much about existing pensions. So to answer your question, the net impact is that Fullerton would get many of the bad aspects of municipal bankruptcy without many of the compensating advantages. It would be a slaughter in court.

          If we as a society are overpaying for pensions — and I can certainly believe that we are — then it can be handled in negotiations that don’t require what is apparently a groundless and stupid bluff that Fullerton would leave for OCSD. But that sort of solution will be more likely if everyone sacrifices a little (with a floor level put on sacrifices) so that people who will, after all, be screwed out of contractual obligations made to them feel that it is just.

          This will probably require concessions from the people who benefit most from reducing public pensions — the wealthy and property-owners. So we can talk productively about “pension reform” when everything truly is on the table — including a refashioning of much of Prop 13.

          Have we reached that point yet? Nope. The rich think that they have a rout in progress — they don’t think that they and they don’t much care whether state government is run well or not. (An Ackerman doesn’t care so long as the state government can still give out handouts to private industries; a Bushala, to his credit for consistency, doesn’t care at all.)

          You’ll know that we’re ready to talk seriously when all sides are ready to negotiate a deal that isn’t one-sided. Like Mitt Romney, Tony& Co. see bankruptcy just as a weapon. It’s not — it’s an equitable power given to specialized judges.

          Think about that word “equitable” for a moment. The court certainly will.

          1. Chapter Nine is certainly “ham-fisted” in Fullerton’s case but I can’t see another way. It IS the means available to renegotiate, in fact, the bankruptcy code expressly states that. I wonder if you could make a compelling argument that given the current level of City revenue, how long would it take for Fullerton to run into a deficit situation given the extent of pension liabilities.

            A lot of people on these pages automatically think Chapter 7 liquidation when you mention the word bankruptcy, which of course is a pretty normal response.

            “Reorganization” is an effective tool and you don’t need to be broke to do it. A local car dealer entered and emerged from Chapter 11 over a dispute that involved a violation of their Dealer agreement with the manufacturer that could have cost the dealer his franchise. Money wasn’t an issue, the Dealer was well-capitalized. The point is that the strategy worked and the man keeps his franchise.

            I feel a lot of people don’t much care about the “equity” involved because they feel that the unions “back-doored” the voter on these issues. The reality is that the voting public wasn’t paying attention to what was going on and that’s not an excuse for the unions to run up the score.

            Bankruptcy would be a lot more hellish if we didn’t have money. This is the opportunity to set things right and move forward.

            1. You make some reasonable arguments, leading me to wish that you were using a less offensive user name. Sorry, it’s hard to get past it.

              Yes, Ch. 11 can be a good tool for people in extreme situations and Ch. 9 can be a good tool for cities facing disastrous situations like San Bernardino. But look — if Fullerton qualified for Ch. 9, how many of the largest 1000 U.S. cities would also qualify? There’s nothing particularly special or urgent about Fullerton’s pension situation compared to that of its peer cities (or at least if there is something that truly distinguishes Fullerton from other cities, I don’t see it mentioned.)

              A BK ruling for Fullerton right now that let it shed off its pension obligations without inflicting serious additional pain on the city, just because it may currently have a Council majority willing to pursue it, would wreak havoc throughout the country.

              What BK court is going to allow it? Beyond that, what BK Appellate Court is going to uphold it? It’s a pipe dream. Its advocates do the residents of Fullerton no favor by asking them to take it seriously.

              1. OK, how’s that name. A little more conciliatory! I just pull names out of space. Usually, I try to pick a name of someone who definitely would not say what I’m saying.

                I will not be fixed to anybody’s satisfaction. I don’t care what side one takes.

                Yes, this is an extreme position but considering the pillage that’s taken place over the years, I consider the action just.

                I post under a bunch of names: Warren Christopher, Mark Fuhrman, Richard Daley, The Law Offices of Dewey, Cheatham and Howe.

                1. All of the other ones are better.

                  I think that we’ve both set out our positions well enough. The difference I see is that you’re tilting more towards saying what should happen and I’m saying what will happen.

                2. But Greg, we have to construct the case. There may not be a case, nobody’s dug that deep I presume. A little econometric modeling thrown in forecasting five years out, who knows. The numbers would have to be compelling. This could be used as a backlash in the event the City or the Council decide to raise fees or institute new taxes.

      1. @Baloney Bony, aka Reality Is, you have absolutely no right to complain about a comment calling someone “O’Malley.”

        According to YOU, everyone is “Tony.” I can’t even begin to count the number of times that you have called me “Tony.” Hypocrite! Wow, you are losing it. Gone.

          1. @Reality Is, aka Omaley from ClairNont Resident, (wherever that is), yes, you have every right to be a hypocrite, and it appears that, as you say, you “always will” be a hypocrite, -you just don’t have the right to complain about others doing the same thing that YOU do all day long.

  2. The worst part of this sorry episode is that the city council perpetuated this mythology instead of clarifying that there was no vote scheduled to “disband the FPD.”

  3. “Disband the Fullerton Pd” who cares that we have one anyway. Those cops don’t live here in town anyway. F Pd makes normal law abiding people afraid of our city because of their history of abuse of the people who they swore to protect and serve. Fullerton would be a better place without the organized crime know as f Pd. If they are so “hot” then why are they so afraid of a little competition from of orange co s.d.?

  4. Should be a wake up call to FPD. But no, business as usual. FPD needs to wake up, and start doing their jobs right. No more coverups, no more lies, etc. Transparency also would help a lot.

    FPD acts like a convicted felon at a parole hearing. No admission of guilt, and no remorse whatsoever. They’re just as cold hearted as the convicted felons.

      1. What’s so stupid John Doe? The fact that we knew what the transcripts contained before we even saw them? We knew it was Slidebar all along. Jeremy was stupid enough to tell the register that they absolutely didn’t make that call. The transcripts will be used in court to prove the whole thing was made up. The employee who was fired will rake in millions because the FPD refused to release the transcripts earlier. Just another coverup from the FPD. Now that’s stupid! Get a life John Doe. Your posts are ignored by 1000’s of people here. You should stop wasting your time.

        1. RD..You ,Ron, and Kelly’s Army have always said there was no call. That cops just came up to Kelly and beat him up. Stop back peddling and tell the truth bonehead. Everything has been documented. So don’tbe surprised if you will be part of a lawsuit for perjury.

          1. You goddamn poopy stupid bastard.

            Poop, wipe, SMEAR, LIE, post, repeat. The defamatory life of John Doe continues.

  5. I think it’s time to evaluate standards for being a police officer. While not necessarily the most dangerous job on the planet, we do ask a lot out of them. Nowadays, you have to be a combination of attorney, forensic psychiatrist, psychologist and best bud just to get the job done. Like most things, if you cut corners it’s an easy job. If you do the job right, it’s a very difficult job.

    Leave the pay alone and require a bachelor’s degree, minimum, master’s degree preferable. The Feds don’t have any problem recruiting people with those standards-usually for less money!

    1. Fuhrman-I think you’re hitting the nail on the head. We need officers on the street who really want to protect and serve. We need to recruit those people who are part attorney, psychologist, forensic psychiarist, counselor, therapist, and good guy/gal. Law enforcement is alway going to attract whose who are looking for a legal way to crack a few heads and be feared. We need better screening. More importantly we need police administrators who have a clear vision that police work is not the military and that small to medium sized department shouldn’t be filled with macho dickhead SWAT officers.

  6. I really love my daughter, and my other son Kevin. Some people just don’t know how hard getting through each day is for us. Even tonight while I was watering my front yard, I just started crying (I do that often). They just kept on beating him over and over while he begged for his life, and for me to save him. Try living with that. Every day is a challenge for me. The media, Radio, Kelly’s Army, I’m not with Kelly’s Army anymore and I don’t support Ron Thomas haters, Dana getting jealous of other women even though we are not seeing each other (She is my ex, not my wife). She wouldn’t even go to the hospital to see Kelly. Every day brings a new challenge for me. Now I am facing the former Kelly’s Army and now “Ron Thomas haters”. With any luck, I only have three years left before I can grieve for my son’s death and try to get on with my life. I am not going to settle with the city. I am going to civil court and see this through to the end. They will put me on the stand and do whatever they can to ruin my credibility and try to show that Kelly and I did not have a good relationship. I will become the victim as was Kelly. The difference is, I will not go through anything nearly as bad as what Kelly went through, so they can BRING IT ON. I may not always do or say what some of you want me to, but try walking in my shoes for a day. I only have one mission, and that is Justice for my son.

    http://www.facebook.com/Justice4KellyThomas/posts/351242651621240

    1. Kelly Thomas was murdered by the Fullerton Police department in front of the whole world on camera. If you have to let your name be mud in the media who gives a damn. History will be kind to you. Stand tall and go all the way. It is never too late to do the right thing. When in the end you look back the only regret you will truly have is how you actually once thought twice about settling. Don’t look back.

      1. Ron is not settling with the city cause he knows Kelly was not murdered by the cops as he claimed 1,0000 times before. RIP Kelly, but you were no killed by the cops and you also know it.

        1. Ron is not settling with the city cause he knows Kelly was not murdered by the cops

          Our friend seems to forget that the city has already settled with kathy Thomas.

          1. I am talking about Ron.. Shit for brains. Kathy got 1 million and that is all Ronnie is getting, if that much.

            1. Ron is not settling with the city cause he knows Kelly was not murdered by the cops

              Kathy got 1 million and that is all Ronnie is getting, if that much.

              Well, which is it?

    2. “I am not going to settle with the city. I am going to civil court and see this through to the end”

      That’s all I ask. Do that and you will always have my respect and the respect of thousands of others.

      May God give you the courage and the grace to withstand anything the evil ones throw at you.

      And may he give you a huge victory – legally, morally and spiritually.

        1. Good idea. I bet FPOA will buy all schizos light blue shirts that say I’m a Schizo on the front and back. That really is a great idea. Otherwise cops have no idea.

          1. It’s way past time for you/LE/FPD to get a clue about severe mental illness. One out of one hundred people suffer from schizophrenia. The FPD KNEW that Kelly was suffering from a severe mental illness when they murdered him.

            1. And how can you prove that? By just saying it does not make it so. That is why all your lies will get you nothing.

                1. I am talking about, what proof do you have that the officers knew Kelly had a mental illness. Just cause he looked dirty and smelly?

        2. Cops may, on occasion, not know who is suffering from a severe mental illness. However, any cop who possessed an ounce of sense, or training, would be able to figure it out, or suspect mental illness, very quickly during contact/questioning with a severely mentally ill person.

          However, cops DO know, or certainly SHOULD know, that it is NEVER, NEVER acceptable to MURDER an innocent, unarmed, helpless, dog piled on, begging for mercy, person by suffocation, bludgeoning, kicking, breaking ribs, bludgeoning facial bones, massive bleeding, electrocution or shooting. EVERY person is entitled to a jury of his peers.

            1. Yes, and they should all be “Gods” since the FPD believes that they have the right to decide who lives and who dies.

              1. No one decides who lives or dies but God, you got that right. But parents decide if they want to take care of their children or not.

                1. God did not murder Kelly Thomas.

                  The FPD decided they wanted to brutalize a homeless person. So they dog piled on top of and suffocated and bludgeoned to death an innocent, unarmed man. Now, you are trying to shift the blame for this horrible murder to someone else who was not even present at the scene of the evil, heinous torture and murder.

                  You should know better than that, but you are so desperate to try to shift the blame onto anyone other than the guilty murderers. Why? Is your dad one of the murderers? Is it your husband? Is it your brother? Is it your son? Is it your uncle? Is it your lover?

                  I know you want to somehow protect the murderers so that they don’t go to prison, or so that their careers and reputations can somehow be salvaged, -but it will not work. The whole world knows that your dad/husband/son murdered Kelly Thomas. The only ones in denial are the officers and their families.

                  And, someday, if the cop gang decides to go against you or a loved one, and they betray your trust, you will be singing a completely different song, one that is full of sorrow. Sorrow because you didn’t stand up for our Constitutionally protected civil rights.

                  The FPD decided to murder Kelly Thomas, and they did. The FPD murderers believe that they are Gods and that they have the right to decide who lives and who dies; however, they do not have the right to murder innocent, unarmed citizens without giving them due process of law.

                  God WILL punish the murderers of Kelly Thomas. Meanwhile, the good citizens will NOT forget what was done to Kelly Thomas under color of law.

                2. JD, you know “Reality Is” is SATAN, right? You are hangin’ with the evil one. He has no morals, no principles and no conscience.

            1. Brutal, armed, trained, bulletproof vest wearing, sociopathic, merciless thug cops who murder under color of law are the most dangerous people on this planet.

              Officers who would gang up and dog pile on an unarmed victim crushing his chest and suffocating him to death, holding the victim down while continuing to taser him repeatedly, beat him with batons, kick him and knee him in the head and chest, knee drop onto his throat and face crushing his throat and facial bones, methodically bludgeon his face and eye, (destroying the eye), repeatedly with the butt end of a tazer and smash facial bones causing massive bleeding and choking, then leave the unconscious victim unattended, offering no first aid, in a huge pool of blood to choke on his own blood, and doing all of this torture and murdering him while he is screaming in pain and screaming for mercy and telling the officers that he can’t breathe, and while the victim is repeatedly screaming to his dad that “they are killing me!” and calling the officers “SIR” and repeatedly saying that he was “sorry,” and calling for God and his dad to save him.

              Those officers who MURDERED an innocent, unarmed man who was NEVER any threat to the officers, and who was NOT guilty of any felony, under color of law with impunity -are THE MOST dangerous people on this planet.

              And, the spineless, or corrupt, badge wearing officers who stood by and watched a helpless, unarmed, innocent man being murdered are THE NEXT MOST dangerous men on this planet.

              These armed, sociopathic, immoral, remorseless, badge wearing, weapon toting officers who have no conscience, who believe that they have the right to deprive us of our civil rights and to murder us without the due process afforded by our United States Constitution, denying citizens the rights of a judge and jury -ARE THE MOST dangerous people on this planet.

            2. @Royal Pain, here is some reading homework for you:

              Where Should People Live: A Modern Therapy Collides with “NIMBY”
              By Michael Rosberg, Ph.D.

              Providing innovative, community-based treatment options for the mentally ill is becoming almost impossible. For example, we recently attempted to open a new residential treatment center and day services program in the city of San Fernando. However, our efforts were defeated. In a classic example of “Not In My Backyard” (NIMBY), the neighborhood and zoning commission overwhelmingly rejected our proposal. Interestingly, this proposed environment was not new to that community. In fact, the property had operated for almost 30 continuous years as a treatment center. It appears that the agendas of the local residents, politicians, and perspective treatment staff and clients were complicated, politically intertwined, and in considerable conflict. This defeat was unfortunate, as the new center would have represented a wonderful opportunity for the mentally ill clientele to live in a vibrant neighborhood.

              NIMBY arises out of the ignorance and fear generated by misinformation. For example, it is erroneously believed that neighborhoods that welcome community-based treatment centers will experience a rise in crime rates, a decline in property values, and an unsafe environment for its citizens. What follows are some facts. Nearly one-fourth of all hospital beds in our country are occupied by the mentally ill. These individuals are also grossly over-represented among the homeless. Because many people with a mental illness are not strong advocates for themselves, their needs (for such things as innovative, community-based treatment centers) often times go unheard. Even today, these unfortunate people are frequently hidden away on backwards of hospitals and rarely allowed to live in the very communities where they were raised.

              People often fear what they do not understand, and for many of us, mental illnesses falls into that category. This fear is amplified by the usage of words such as “insane”. Many people do not understand that this is a legal term and not a psychiatric diagnosis. The term “insane” suggests that all mental illnesses have similar symptoms, and that all the people who suffer from them are the same. In addition, individuals with a mental illness rarely make the news unless a sensational story arises that perpetuates the outdated and one-dimensional stereotypes that appear to be so popular in the media. For all of the recent advances in medical science, there still rages the most incredible misconception of the mentally ill.

              Research has shown that the vast majority of people who are violent do not suffer from a mental illness. Public perception has assumed mental illness to be linked with violence. However, violent behavior in persons with mental illnesses represents only a minor contribution to all violent crimes. In a recent study by the NIMH, it was estimated that the incidence of violence amongst persons with a current mental illness is no greater than that in our general population. This is further supported by the American Psychiatric Association, which reported that although people assume the mentally ill behave more violently than others, the studies do not support this belief. Bruce Link, a psychiatric epidemiologist at the Columbia University School of Public Health in New York stated, “If you want to protect yourself from violence, you would do just as well to avoid men and teenagers as you would to avoid people with mental illness.”

              So, why should we demand that people with mental illnesses be allowed to live in communities? The answer is simple. All individuals, regardless of their disabilities, deserve the right to live with dignity within the community. Deinstitutionalization must be more than just a “good idea”. We must all fight to make it a reality. With our failure to create a new center in San Fernando, our community has, unfortunately, only reinforced the stereotypes and denied countless people the opportunity to live and be treated in their own neighborhood. Finally, let’s answer the proposed question, “Where should people live?” They should live where they wish, and we should help them to do so.

              1. Mentally ill, or not, Kelly did not deserve to be murdered.

                However, since Kelly was mentally ill and he did have problems following directions, the FPD should have handled the situation much differently and DE-escalated the situation with calmness, with patience, with simple quiet instructions and with quiet, non-threatening explanations of what they were going to do.

                Anyone who questioned Kelly, or who spoke to him, or who witnessed Kelly’s confused responses to instructions, would be able to quickly assertain that Kelly was suffering from a severe mental illness.

                Instead, the FPD had unrealistic expectations of the cognitive functioning abilities of Kelly Thomas and they intentionally ESCALATED the situation into threats, whereby Kelly Thomas feared for his life. The FPD expected complete and immediate compliance to their commands, no matter how difficult, or impossible, it was for Kelly to comply.

                The FPD’s taunting and verbal harrassment of Kelly Thomas greatly escalated Kelly’s anxiety, confusion and fear and his desire to flee a dangerous and threatening situation. The FPD harrassed and provoked a mentally ill man to respond with his own defensive “smart ass” verbal responses in kind. Kelly had every right to defend himself from unlawful threats and violence.

                You can not expect someone who is severely mentally ill to react to a stressful situation in the same way that a non-mentally ill person would. A severely mentally ill person who is spoken to in a denegrating, threatening way, will become even more agitated, defensive, anxious, confused, verbally aggressive, etc. They can’t help it; it is part of the illness of schizophrenia.

                Someone who suffers from schizophrenia does not do well under pressure or when they are being teased or criticized or demeaned. They will not sit quietly when taunted, they WILL respond in kind. They are not able to process information quickly and they have automatic responses when they feel threatened. Just like an opossum, they will snarl back at you if they feel threatened.

                1% of the population, nationally, suffers from schizophrenia. Unless LE intends to beat to death and murder all of these people whom they encounter, they had better learn to recognize the symptoms of severe mental illness and learn how to approach someone who is suffering from a severe mental illness -in a way that will gain trust and cooperation. That is a far better alternative than beating innocent human beings to death.

                1. Justice For All. You always repeat the same stupid narrative over and over. What you say is not even true. It’s like you close your eyes and dream up some weird scenario. You are a freak. Like that guy said you might be crazier than Kelly was. Seek help please.

                2. @IOF, “What you say is not even true.”

                  What did I say that you don’t understand or agree with?

                  I can assure you that everything that I have said is absolutely true. I’ll continue stating the truth, over and over and over, as long as necessary.

                  “It’s like you close your eyes and dream up some weird scenario.”

                  I wish that I HAD dreamed up Kelly’s brutal murder and that it was just “…some weird scenario.” Unfortunately, Kelly’s brutal, heinous murder by FPD officers under color of authority was NO dream. It was VERY real and it was HORRIFIC, EXCRUTIATINGLY PAINFUL, BRUTAL, TERRIFYING, and it was the real life MURDER of an innocent, unarmed, helpless man, -while he begged for mercy and for God and his father to save him.

                  “Seek help please.”

                  I do need help. Fullerton needs help. We deserve so much better than to have our citizens murdered, brutalized and raped by the same men and women that we pay to “protect and serve” us.

                  If I am ever going to sleep well again, Fullerton must get rid of the FPD who would allow such a brutal murder to occur under color of authority and then make excuses and try to cover it all up and sweep it under the rug.

                  Would you like me to repeat this again for you?? I’d be happy to.

    3. why don’t you write sompthing intelligent and sign your won name to it instead of pasting other peoples stuff.

    4. @RT Did you decide to throw a pity party for yourself because people are finally beginning to see you for who you are? Stay tune folks, more to come. Is the media no longer buying all the crap you spew? I can understand how someone with an inflated ego such as yours sees everyday as a challenge now that interest in you is fading.

      What you are no longer with Kelly’s Army? But are you not their self-proclaimed general? How will they ever survive without you to tell them when to take a crap and when to talk crap?

      Ron you are nothing but a lying sack of shit. What makes you think that people can’t prove that you were NOT an OCSD? For 10 years you had NO relationship with your son. You didn’t even recognize his mug shot. You use pictures from 20 years ago because you don’t have any recent ones.

      The gig is up dude, give it up. You will be walking away with nothing but your tail between your legs. Kelly’s mom was smart, she took the money and ran.

    5. How can anybody seriously suggest that the FPD has undergone necessary reforms when three of the officers involved in Kelly Thomas’s brutal murder are still on the force?

      1. Those 3 responded late and assisted with final cuffing. They will be charged or fired for he Kelly Thomas incident. Ever.

  7. I wouldn’t be too concerned with the union. They put $18k in to a losing effort for the recall. Everytime Coffman talks its to speak of what his union wants. It would be nice for a change if that fat lump would talk about what he will do for the community to change his members image. Community BBQ, meet with comm church’s, leaders etc.. Plus the union members at the meeting were those with the most to lose, the supervisors. If absorbed most of the GED holding supervisors would no longer be supervisors and quite possibly out of a job. The other half of the supervisors without GED or HS diplomas have a degree from Cal State LB handed to them by Sellers just for going 2-4 hrs to a class on wknds…. What corruption?

  8. A community BBQ with Barry Coffman is a truly fantastic idea. Providing of course that the community provides the BBQ. I will personally need several chickens, 9 baked potatoes, a fatted calf, and 15 or so bacon-burgers.

      1. Yeah for sure, good ole’ barry has been banging female employees on the job for years. He’s quite the role model isn’t he?? Just the kind of sleazy, corrupt, p.o.s. FPD is known for. Too bad his wife is too stupid to see what kind of pig he really is.

  9. I just love how professional Travis Kiger is. He is an embarrassment to this city. What a great example he is showing his young daughter, so sad. I can’t wait for November!

    1. How about you be specific and outline your issues with Travis rather than just smearing him without explaining, and bringing up his baby girl? Would that be too much to ask?

    2. “I just love how professional Travis Kiger is.”

      If by “professional” you mean the drooling, babbling, incoherent psychopathic assholes that preceded him, then you are right – he isn’t professional.

  10. Someday, the utopian world of pensions is going to run head-on with budgetary reality. Guess which one wins?

  11. Regarding #16 above, Travis was and is and, definitely showed it at the last council meeting. Want to talk about UN-PROFESSIONAL then let’s talk about how pathetic it was for one of our most recently elected council member, Doug Chafee, who took it upon himself to slip on a blue “We love Fullerton Police” Shirts!!!! And wore that shirt while sitting in his Council Seat…PITIFUL!!!!

    Council Members that are elected officials should always dress professionally and display professional “neutral” body language and behavior! They can voice, ask and/or vote in opposition but should always remain professional.

    From what I witnessed the other night; Travis was definitely professional in his dress, actions, statements and stood up in his voting for what he believes in without falling to outside pressure.

    1. Dear Longtime… what’s so bad about a city councilmemeber showing his position, supporting a group of the staff that work under him. I didn’t know the council had a dress code!

  12. Did anybody else hear officer Shoen threaten Travis. That’s the way I heard it anyways. What’s with that?

      1. I can’t access the city meeting video right now. I don’t want to misquote. I will get back to you TK.

  13. If you review the comments in the last blog you will notice that I was the first one who said that the unstated reason why the OCSD bid request was so important was to HOLD A HAMMER OVER THE HEADS OF FPD TO FORCE THEM TO CHANGE THEIR WAYS!!!

    The cost savings was a secondary reason that was brought up by the Council. BUT NO ONE TALKED ABOUT THE PRIMARY REASON!!!

    The 3 turdheads were not voted out because of the cost incurred by FPD. It was due to FPD’s BEHAVIOR AND THE ‘CULTURE OF CORRUPTION’.

    So I believe I was the first one to bring this up.

    Please give credit where it’s due.

    Thank you.

    1. JustUs- I read that post from top to bottom and yes- you stated that theme multiple times.
      Let’s be fair here admin. Good job JustUs.

    1. Aren’t you retired bill wallace? Collecting how much of the taxpayer money while lying about how wonderful fpd is?? Give me a break, this dept. is rotten to the core and has been for decades. It’s really sad how you even have yourselves fooled by it. For crissake, take a step back and remember all the crap you got away with and what other cops did at that pd. I can give several criminal references if you’d like. Detailed too.

    1. What’s going down is the tax payers trust in the city council to responsibly enact fiscal policy to address the ballooning deficit of the public safety and public works budgets. All the talk and whimpering by FPD and its supporters will be muzzled when they have to contend with residents who get slapped with an enormous tax hike. If the FPD were truly aligned with change and reform, why didn’t one single speaker/supporter address that they are prepared to discuss serious concessions and reform?

  14. Ron Thomas, you would have more credibility if you could have recognized your own sons mug shot. How many years has it been since you have seen him?

    1. This has not gone unnoticed. It was heart wrenching to hear Kelly crying for his dad and gives the impression they had a close relationship. But any mental health professional will you it’s not uncommon for the mentally ill to revert to a child-like state when in situations like what Kelly was in. It’s possible when Kelly was crying out for his dad to help him, he was a scared little boy looking for parental protection.

      1. It happens to people that are not mentally ill as well when they are being tortured, electrocuted and bludgeoned to death. Any mental health professional will tell you that as well.

    2. Typical marxist, saul alinsky rhetoric. Steer blame way from the real problem and divert it to something that it is not. NO, fpd murdered a man and has commited multiple crimes on others over the years. Like the rape of a records clerk by 2 sr. officers, the mulitple trips to vegas on company time for ‘training’ when in fact there was no training, coffmans little trysts’s with his female companions on duty, goodrich’s hiding from gunfire and stuart ‘what’s his name’ running away from an armed man, and many many more….

      1. Disgustedbythis, Ron Thomas is the playing the diversion today. See his letter above. He also posted it in other places. As a result, KTMF funds and his accountability have come into public question. Nothing was said until one of his supporters defended him on it. Ironic that Ron recently put something up about leaving your closet door open while judging others and your skeletons fell out. He only has himself to blame for leaving his closet door open open and his skeletons falling out.

  15. Fullerton won’t do anything until something is changed statewide. They will try and politicians will play nice for votes but it will stay the same. FPD will give up 5% in 2015 and life will go on. Tony it’s Clairnont. Get it right.

  16. Kelly would not have screamed repeatedly for his dad if there was not abundant love between the two of them.

    Anyone who says otherwise is a fabricator.

    If I was on that civil jury and I heard Kelly’s last words – it would be a done deal.

    Judgment in favor of the plaintiff. Full amount plus punitive damages.

      1. “JU. You are very biased already. You would never be picked for this jury”

        Are you joking???

        Biased people get picked for jury duty all the damn time. In fact, I’d say more than half of them are biased. Do you think jurors are 100% honest when questioned by the attorneys and the judge??? Obviously you know little about what happens in our court system.

  17. JustUs. I respect your opinion on pay and benefits but the only thing that will change is the pension system. Most PDs are now paying their 9% contribution to PERS so took a 5%-10% cut with that. We will see if the tone changes but the only gripes you hear about overpaid is here. Fullerton has plenty of cash and with insurance paying Ron they will be just fine in terms of a balanced budget.

    Ask Tony. Im never wrong.

    😉

    1. Losses increase premiums and shock losses drastically affect premiums. The taxpayers will be on the hook.

  18. JustUs. I respect your opinion on pay and benefits but the only thing that will change is the pension system. Most PDs are now paying their 9% contribution to PERS so took a 5%-10% cut with that. We will see if the tone changes but the only gripes you hear about overpaid is here. Fullerton has plenty of cash and with insurance paying Ron they will be just fine in terms of a balanced budget.

    Ask Tony. Im never wrong.

    😉

    1. “Most PDs are now paying their 9% contribution to PERS so took a 5%-10% cut with that”

      The largest PD is Orange County (OC Sheriffs) just started paying 5%. 3 years ago they paid 0%. 5% is the maximum according to their 2009 contract. It went up annually in increments of 1%-3%-5%. They should pay much more than 5%. There are over 500 of them collecting pensions of > $100,000 today. They should have to pay for at least half of their medical insurance too. The taxpayers shouldn’t have to subsidize medical insurance for someone who elects to retire at age 50-55. Hell, they aren’t kings. Most don’t even have a damn college degree. Total nonsense.

  19. Truthseeker is absolutely correct, unfortunately. Also (per my discussion with Dick Jones) the city is self insured for the first $1 million in loss per “incident” so the payout to Thomas’s mom comes directly out of reserves. And if that weren’t bad enough, general liability policies almost never include punitive damages so if this matter did go to trial our insurance would not pick up those claims.

    1. Insurance does not cover criminal behavior, unless it is specific endorsed on a policy. I don’t think there is a broker around who could get that type of coverage for a PD, especially one with FPD’s litigation track record.

  20. Cops who don’t live here in town don’t get to vote here in town. The only thing they can do is wear matching outfits and intimate the city counsel with their presents. Its ok we Fullerton residents get to vote in November and sure as heck it will not be for any candidate that wants to spend MILLIONS more dollars per year for our substandard police Dept.. think about it the next time you complain about our crumbling infrastructure and lack of emergency resorses. We are spending millions more dollars for what and why for the Fullerton Pd. Why? Do people actually think its prestigious to have a “Fullerton police Dept?” I’m so embarrassed of those clowns I could just cry! Million more dollars per year for our police Dept who KILL STEAL ROB AND RAPE ITS OWN CITIZENS! Who cares if we never get them back!

    1. gone fishin’ you’ll be suprised how many cops live in town and not just Fullerton cops. I live in town, my family lives in town, many friends who supported this decision by SQS, Chaffee and Sebourn live in town and they are not thrilled with Kiger or Whitaker’s attempt at trying to force this through. When SQS said to get this on the ballot for the citizens to decide, Chaffee didn’t 2nd it because he said it would fail. The others don’t want the citizens to decide because they know the citizens of Fullerton would not want to outsource the PD. Whitaker and Kiger think they are saving Fullerton but they’re not. Fullerton voters will be holding these 2 accountable for their actions at council meetings and in November.

  21. Love me or hate me I don’t really give a fuck!

    My Question is Travis Have you ever talked to Barry In person? Or Dan for that matter?

    Knowledge is power I gave you my vote get in there ask questions!

    1. But listen to Kelly’s Army shirt wearing gang members? You want them to listen to one side but not the other? Some of the lies the KA say are much worse than anything ever said by the blue t shirts. The lies are rampant.

    2. Maybe next time they should all wear masks, not shower, and write on the armslike the people I have seen over the last year. Maybe they should yell and scream at council members like they did all last year and that includes Barry Lev who was there tuesday for short stint but left. Wonder why he left since normally likes to hear himself speak. Most likely because he doesn’t want to lose votes to actual voters in Fullerton who agree with SQS, Chaffee and Sebourn. I predict he’ll be a 3 time loser.

      Fullerton residents need to let this council know your wishes because Kiger and Whitaker for sure want to do anything other than what the people of this city were demanding.

    1. Neither did FPD. Two people are on trial.

      98.6% of FPD had nothing to do with it. They have every right to be heard and not be intimidated by some white trash losers with no jobs. Deal with it.

      1. Now I get it. You’re one of those. One of the turtles that would drive by me while I’m protesting the FPD and you would yell all kinds of really inteligent slogans such as, Go Home, Get A Job, You’re a Bum, etc. Keep it classy dear.

        1. I see how you are. You feel your crew and Kelly’s Army can tell insults and threats to cops that had nothing to do with Kelly’s contact and that’s ok? I see how you are. Typical. You can do anything you want but no one else can if they think opposite of you.

              1. Police officers should be reminded and reminded often that they are not special human beings. Just people with average to sub-average IQs, virtually no academic accomplishment, and no special moral compass.

          1. “Kelly’s contact?”

            So that’s what they call murder up in the Pomona Police Department, O’Malley?

            1. I don’t know anything about Pamona but all cities in the USA call that a contact until a jury of our peers say otherwise. Even you Tony with your fried brain know that. Admit it. There was no murder there. Does Pamona murder people?

            2. But I (me not Omaley whoever that is) will say if a jury says murder I will say murder. If they say not guilty I will say not guilty. Even though I see no murder.

      2. @Baloney, so far, I would say that 98.6% of the FPD are showing solidarity with the six FPD, or more, officers who murdered, abetted or watched the murder of an innocent, unarmed, disabled man who was begging for his life.

        There is nothing more intimidating than a bunch of armed thugs, aka FPD officers, who feel they have license to beat and murder with impunity under color of law.

        Did you feel intimidated by “white trash losers with no jobs”? Really? Who were they? Homeless, mentally ill friends of Kelly’s? Maybe you could go and Taser them, and then when your Taser battery runs out, you can murder them with the butt end of your Taser.

        The FPD should be humbled and contrite for the murder of an innocent, unarmed, disabled man; however, the FPD/LE egos (and unions) are far too big, (and powerful), for that.

        I realize that when you say that the FPD should “not be intimidated by some white trash losers with no jobs,” those are the LE code words that you have been taught to use so that you feel justified in beating/murdering citizens. Next, you will begin shouting “stop resisting” into your shirt pockets during city council meetings. We know your MO. Deal with it.

    1. And the two charged, and more, DID MURDER Kelly Thomas..deal with it like a man, instead of denying the truth and lying to yourself.

  22. The FPD is an outstanding police department. Those who feel otherwise should move to a city patrolled by the sheriffs, or Anaheim. The FPD will never be disbanded thanks to the support of the Fullerton community. Oh, Tony, are going to recall Sharon, Greg, and Doug for not voting like Travis?

    1. Quirk is out in less than three months

      When the time comes, the citizens will be reminded of how Chaffee refused to study saving $10,000,000 a year.

      Sebourn is already sorry for his vote.

    2. If indeed it is an outstanding department then we will know for sure in 2015. In the meantime it would make sense for the police officers that are related to my neighbors, those whose kids play with my kids on the little league and soccer fields, and all the rest who live in, work in and love this town to please make sure that the bad apples are wished into the corn field. Forget this blog and its followers because the economic reality will be something to contend with in 2015 the likes of which not even our Keynesian economists can foresee. All I can say is hope for the best and prepare for the worst. You just never know what the future holds with the finance oligarchs running the economy and markets on their little yoyo. My opinion is we are Greece in 3 years. They could cut the string or they could also reel it all the way in. For the next 3 years the FPD needs to do their job and do it with pride and integrity and treat the public like they would treat their own family members. 6 FPD officers beat a man to death on camera in front of the whole world. Only 2 are charged because of some bizarre unclear reason that only our fine trusted DA can answer. If 98.6% of the department are fine officers then time will tell if your definition of fine is completely subjective. In the meantime may I remind all those involved that is never too late to do the right thing.

  23. Ok then why don’t the 98.6% other police officer’s offer up some hope of reform? You know the cops that didn’t rape and murderer. You know the ones that remain silent?

  24. The FPD won and they will be here until the last disability pension. Sadly there is no hope the FPD own Fullerton lock,stock and barrel. It will never change. After the union gets the executioners of the hook the terror will intensify.

    1. I just gotta say, leon and his other aliases are about my favorite FFFF trolls. “After the union gets the executioners of the hook the terror will intensify.” = awesome!

    1. It was a good quote and I enjoyed it but I have to ask why did we have 2 council members feel like dumpster diving at the PD? I have to think they were voted in for better reasons than that or maybe their hatred has clouded their judgement. Tell me any other city department where they did this? Tell me what did they find? Tell me any other city council member anywhere that has ever done this? Seems bizarre and not appropriate.

  25. Whether you’re for or against keeping the FPD, how can anyone support them, as is? I’d like to to keep them vs OCSD. But only if we can revamp them and have changes such as greater accountability and transparency. Those blue tshirts were a bit much and Chaffee putting one on was downright repulsive, not to mention unprofessional.

  26. According to reports on KFI not many of Kelly’s Army live in Fullerton.

    Ron T. has filed his lawsuit, so maybe someone should file one against him for not taking care of his child. If Kelly had not been homeless, Cicinelli and Ramos would not be in the position they are in.

    Their families should file against R.T. Oh.. I forgot, he is not responsible for what his homeless son has done and how he has been living. If R.T. is not responsible, why should he receive $20 million from the City of Fullerton? For doing absolutely nothing!!!!

      1. Other people’s children would not resist arrest and fight the officers. I don’t care what smelly Kelly was saying, he did just the opposite. I also don’t believe the schitzo bit. Where’s the proof? Ron Thomas’ word doesn’t count. He is just an opportunistic lying sack of shit.

        I am also tired of hearing about how he was a gentle soul; what a big load of crap that is! There are so many people who can attest to what an asshole he was, just like his father.

        1. You don’t believe that Kelly Thomas suffered from schizophrenia?? You are a complete ignoramous and you are a complete waste of time on this blog. Come back after you educate yourself. You know nothing about Kelly Thomas and you know even less about severe, persistent mental illness.

          1. Yes we know that. You are valuable here? If you lined up 10 schizos even you wouldn’t know who was a schizo, a dopehead, or an alcoholic. They can all be dangerous and kill anyone even you. To say otherwise shows your intelligence which is clearly nothing. You are brain dead.

            1. You are immoral, and a sociopath to boot. I’ll take you up on your challenge. If you can’t tell the difference between an unarmed, helpless, innocent, unarmed, mentally ill man, and someone who is threatening your life, – then YOU are brain dead.

              1. The simple truth is if you were the cop you would have been killed by Kelly. So it was either Kelly or a cop. God made his choice. God runs this world not you. God has holes for people like you.

                1. “So it was either Kelly or a cop. God made his choice. God runs this world not you. God has holes for people like you.”

                  Geez, you REALLY are arrogant to think that you will be able to get away with blaming God for your murder of an innocent, unarmed, helpless, pinned down man. Lightening is going to strike you dead. I strongly suggest that you talk to your priest, rabbi, or the holy man of your choice tomorrow to do some serious repenting. Whew, you really are fearless; I guess that goes along with being brainless.

                2. God made you do it?? You are misinformed. The Devil made you do it!! You really should learn to tell the difference. Go to church.

                3. “Kelly Thomas’ injuries included a broken nose, broken cheek bones, broken ethmoid bone, brain damage due to lack of oxygen, renal (kidney) failure, three broken ribs, heart attack, multiple facial lacerations and bruises, Taser wounds, bruises on his torso, rhabdomyolysis (breakdown of muscle tissue resulting in the release of myoglobin to the bloodstream), and a hyphema (blood in the chamber of the eye) in his left eye. The official primary cause of death was “anoxic encephalopathy with acute bronchopneumonia,” (asphyxia) caused by “mechanical chest compression with blunt cranial-facial injuries sustained during physical altercation with law enforcement.” http://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-for-Kelly-Thomas/202121386512154?sk=info

                  So, YOU believe that one thin, badly beaten, Tasered and mortally wounded Kelly Thomas was going to get up at any moment and kill six very well fed (obese), trained, bulletproof vest wearing FPD officers?

                  You are really reaching into your FPD bag of tricks and trying SO desperately to make up pathetic excuses for the FPD murder of an innocent, unarmed man. Shame, Shame on you!! Oh, that’s right, -sociopaths like you feel no shame.

                4. Why do you have such animosity towards JFA? It is a more humane perspective that you and all your obstinate buddies will not consider. Hey stooge, are you really that inhumane?

  27. I agree SheBear that Chaffee putting on the police t-shirt proved that he does not represent the people of Fullerton.

    He is a spineless wimp supporting the unions above all else. How about helping your own brother Doug? You total hypocrite and phony!

    Asking for information is a problem for Sharon and Doug. I guess they like to remain ignorant and stupid.

    1. It was a contentious issue between the residents he works for. Expressing his views and voting on them is one thing. Wearing the tshirt was wrong. It also made me remember that recalled councilman and retired FPD chief of police, Pat McKinley, donated to Chaffee’s campaign for his current seat.

      Only Steve Baxter had it right by wearing one with an added message on it.

  28. Just like conservatives have to be upset with Sebourn’s voting with the Unions; liberals have to be upset that justice and civil rights for all is apparently not important to Doug Chaffee.

    Character counts people. Look beyond the rhetoric of candidates. Have they been consistent with their positions in the past? Have they made choices that seem self-serving and antithetical to the wishes of the people? Or have they taken stands based on integrity and conviction?

    Can they walk and chew gum at the same time? You might laugh at this question but we have had more the one council member in the past that has failed this last test!

  29. I Own Fullerton :
    Justice For All. You always repeat the same stupid narrative over and over. What you say is not even true. It’s like you close your eyes and dream up some weird scenario. You are a freak. Like that guy said you might be crazier than Kelly was. Seek help please.

    The truth is never stupid; however, your disingenuous ad hominem attacks are very stupid.

    1. JFA. Even you know you are a whacko. Do you have a family? Ask them to take you in for an eval. Most 5150’s don’t know they need help. You clearly need help. Come out of the basement and ask your mon for help. Thanks.

        1. Seriously. At least some of rhe whack jobs here say things interesting. You say the same stupid shit over and over. Yes we know how you think. Who cares. Tell us something new. It’s clear you are a schizo and are trying to get help from the world for your illness.

          1. If you don’t care…don’t read. It’s as simple as that. Read and learn if you dare. I know you don’t dare, or care to know the truth. You’re just a chicken pig who totes a badge and a gun to make yourself feel brave and powerful.

            P.S. you wouldn’t know how to write up a 5150 if your life depended on it. That’s why you suffocate and beat the mentally ill to death.

            1. Cops would never listen to a word you say. Whack jobs like you are everywhere. You are ignored. God has plans for everyone. If death is his desire then so be it. He sends his warriors on missions. God rules the world.

                1. You are not a truth speaker. You are full of your own hot azz air. Before FFFF no one would listen to you. Now you feel accepted because Tony and his boys get on their knees and blow you. It turns you on.

            2. JFA, you are unfortunately dealing with someone whose IQ is about 30-40 points below yours. He relies on the ad hominem attacks because he can’t actually formulate arguments in opposition to yours.

  30. It really is funny on this site how if you have an opinion opposite of the normal everyday 10 posters or the owner then your opinion means nothing. I see why council and the public are swaying the other direction. Going the way of this blog is not healthy.

    1. @I Own Fullerton, Oh, you are SO wrong!! Your opinion DOES mean something; it means that you are uneducated, unprincipled and that you have no morals or integrity. I’m sure you can convince the voters to see your point of view in Nov. Oh, what was your point of view again? Oh yes, something about how it is OK for the FPD to murder helpless, unarmed citizens. That should be an easy sell.

      1. Ha. Convince voters? I could care less what voters think of me. Cops kill people all the time by the way and no matter how much you say that will never ever ever change.

        1. “I could care less what voters think of me.”

          Voters are your employers who pay your salary and give you a job. Voters are the people whom you “serve.” Voters will be watching you at every turn. Voters will remember your arrogant attitude of disrespect for them and for human life.

          Well, I see that you have convinced yourself that it’s ok to murder an unarmed, innocent, helpless man while he is being held down. It must be easy for you to sleep at night when you have no conscience.

          Why don’t you write some more about how you don’t care what voters think of you. I think it would make great reading material at the next city council meeting, don’t you?

  31. TimeWillTell :Other people’s children would not resist arrest and fight the officers. I don’t care what smelly Kelly was saying, he did just the opposite. I also don’t believe the schitzo bit. Where’s the proof? Ron Thomas’ word doesn’t count. He is just an opportunistic lying sack of shit.
    I am also tired of hearing about how he was a gentle soul; what a big load of crap that is! There are so many people who can attest to what an asshole he was, just like his father.

    I recall one who blew out cici’s eye and left him brain damaged

  32. TimeWillTell :Come on Tony have some balls and post my comment!!You know that little dried up crack hoe can take it.

    I Own Fullerton :Ha. Convince voters? I could care less what voters think of me. Cops kill people all the time by the way and no matter how much you say that will never ever ever change.

    Oinker :Cops would never listen to a word you say. Whack jobs like you are everywhere. You are ignored. God has plans for everyone. If death is his desire then so be it. He sends his warriors on missions. God rules the world.

    Read these quotes slowly, carefully and ponder them for a moment after having done so, if you still want to put on a “baby blue” shirt, there is nothing I can say that will change your mind but if you are repulsed like I am, get out and vote for change in Nov.

      1. It really is a good thing for you that the average voter doesn’t understand the cop mind the way we do.

      2. I read this blog to hear you whine about sitting at the end of the slidebar, drinking your life away…

  33. Oinker :
    You are not a truth speaker. You are full of your own hot azz air. Before FFFF no one would listen to you. Now you feel accepted because Tony and his boys get on their knees and blow you. It turns you on.

    Good job JFA. You’ve definitely got this one’s number. Ha ha!

  34. Justice for ALL :
    God did not murder Kelly Thomas.
    The FPD decided they wanted to brutalize a homeless person. So they dog piled on top of and suffocated and bludgeoned to death an innocent, unarmed man. Now, you are trying to shift the blame for this horrible murder to someone else who was not even present at the scene of the evil, heinous torture and murder.
    You should know better than that, but you are so desperate to try to shift the blame onto anyone other than the guilty murderers. Why? Is your dad one of the murderers? Is it your husband? Is it your brother? Is it your son? Is it your uncle? Is it your lover?
    I know you want to somehow protect the murderers so that they don’t go to prison, or so that their careers and reputations can somehow be salvaged, -but it will not work. The whole world knows that your dad/husband/son murdered Kelly Thomas. The only ones in denial are the officers and their families.
    And, someday, if the cop gang decides to go against you or a loved one, and they betray your trust, you will be singing a completely different song, one that is full of sorrow. Sorrow because you didn’t stand up for our Constitutionally protected civil rights.
    The FPD decided to murder Kelly Thomas, and they did. The FPD murderers believe that they are Gods and that they have the right to decide who lives and who dies; however, they do not have the right to murder innocent, unarmed citizens without giving them due process of law.
    God WILL punish the murderers of Kelly Thomas. Meanwhile, the good citizens will NOT forget what was done to Kelly Thomas under color of law.

    No one killed Kelly but “YOU”..And soon the world will know it and I didn’t have to use 500 words to say it.

  35. John Doe :JFA killed Kelly X 500.

    Oh, look at you, just last week I gave you an addition problem to work out (2+2) while the adults talked and this week your up to your times table, next week, gazintas.

  36. John Doe :Ron is not settling with the city cause he knows Kelly was not murdered by the cops as he claimed 1,0000 times before. RIP Kelly, but you were no killed by the cops and you also know it.

    1,0000? Oh, Darn It!

  37. No please don’t. Save the drama for your mama. You have so much drama you could be a porn star.

    Justice for ALL :
    @IOF, “What you say is not even true.”
    What did I say that you don’t understand or agree with?
    I can assure you that everything that I have said is absolutely true. I’ll continue stating the truth, over and over and over, as long as necessary.
    “It’s like you close your eyes and dream up some weird scenario.”
    I wish that I HAD dreamed up Kelly’s brutal murder and that it was just “…some weird scenario.” Unfortunately, Kelly’s brutal, heinous murder by FPD officers under color of authority was NO dream. It was VERY real and it was HORRIFIC, EXCRUTIATINGLY PAINFUL, BRUTAL, TERRIFYING, and it was the real life MURDER of an innocent, unarmed, helpless man, -while he begged for mercy and for God and his father to save him.
    “Seek help please.”
    I do need help. Fullerton needs help. We deserve so much better than to have our citizens murdered, brutalized and raped by the same men and women that we pay to “protect and serve” us.
    If I am ever going to sleep well again, Fullerton must get rid of the FPD who would allow such a brutal murder to occur under color of authority and then make excuses and try to cover it all up and sweep it under the rug.
    Would you like me to repeat this again for you?? I’d be happy to.

    1. MURDER is VERY dramatic, -especially when committed upon an innocent, unarmed, helpless man by those who are sworn to “serve and protect” us.

      This ugly drama will be replayed in the court room soon enough. You’d better get used to hearing the ugly truth. Your mama will be so ashamed because you are defending the horrific murder of an innocent man.

  38. Justice FA – Kelly called for help? He had been calling for help for many years and what did he get? A deaf ear from his family. They did not want to deal with him anymore. When Ron was called by the FPD and advised of his son’s situation a few years ago what was RT’s response? RT said he was not interested and that “I no longer have a son!” Over the years RT has ignored Kelly, turned him away, refused his phone calls. Said “he’s not my son!” And the list goes on.

    Ron I challenge you to tell the truth and why when this happened to Kelly, you came forward like he was your long lost beloved son that you had been looking for for many years. YOU KNOW YOU WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM. THERE ARE TOO MANY WITNESSES FOR YOU TO DENY THE THINGS YOU HAVE SAID!

    There are recordings of some of the things you have said about Kelly and just wait for the trial against the City. It will all come out.

    No matter what happenes in court, remember… Kelly is the one who lost here, and you could have prevented it!

    Heartfelt condolences to Cathy Thomas! Her mother heart will always be broken.

    1. @Anonymous II, Have you ever heard the following saying: “Two wrongs don’t make a right.” ?

      NOTHING that Ron Thomas did, or didn’t do, will EVER mitigate the ugly, horrendous truth that the Fullerton Police Dept. BRUTALLY MURDERED Kelly Thomas.

  39. Mr. Thomas:

    I read your post of 8/9 and am disappointed that you are still placing blame on others. No one else is to blame for Kelly’s death. As much as you may want to assuage your own conscience by doing so, it is not going to work. You need to face up to the cold hard bare facts.

    By saying that Kelly was murdered, does not make it so. He was neglected and ignored by those who claim to love him dearly and as a result, he died.

    An altercation with anyone could have taken his life or no altercation could have taken his life. It won’t work Mr. Thomas. You cannot keep trying to make the FPD and the officers responsible for what you did or did not do.

    I am sorry for Kelly, not you. You could have helped him and you did not. You lived as you wanted, without your son… Now you are crying foul?

    1. @Hog, I am not Mr. Thomas; however, I will be happy to reply to your comment.

      You sociopathic Fullerton Police Department cops and apologists have tried to blame everyone that you can possibly think of, including God and the murdered victim himself, -innocent, unarmed, helpless Kelly Thomas.

      Kelly Thomas was being held down while he was heinously bludgeoned and suffocated to death on July 5, 2011, even as he begged for mercy from his murderers, who ironically, were duly sworn to “serve and protect.”

      The blood of Kelly Thomas is on YOUR uniforms, YOUR boots, YOUR Tasers, YOUR batons, YOUR knees, YOUR elbows, YOUR fists and YOUR hands and YOUR souls. You are delusional, sociopathic COWARDS who can’t even bring yourselves to admit the filthy truth, -that the Fullerton Police Dept. has murdererd an innocent man. Don’t worry, the whole world knows the ugly truth, whether you can bring yourselves to admit it, or not. We’ve all watched the sickening, blood curdling video of the FPD murdering Kelly Thomas.

      You can keep on lying to yourselves; go ahead, make the world despise you even more for being murderers AND liars. But, instead of lying and revealing yourselves to be the murderous, pathological liars and sociopaths that you are, -you really should just do yourselves a huge favor and….oh, nevermind…I changed my mind, I’m not going to help you.

  40. JFA – Again you should google “Excited Delirium.” It has been proven many times over and is a viable defense. Kelly was in such poor physical condition that his body could not deal with any trauma. ANY! He should not have been such a smart mouth too.

    Since LEO are not M.D.’s they did not know Kelly’s condition. Nothing would have helped Kelly except maybe a warm, clean bed and a bath and a shave and a haircut and some good food and more than all of that a loving family. I could go on but you get the point, I’m sure.

    You can tell all the world about murder, piling on, should have known, schizo, he was innocent, broken facial bones, broken ribs… and the list goes on and on and on.

    BUT THAT DOES NOT ABSOLVE RON THOMAS OF HIS RESPONSIBILITY.

    It was his lack of responsibility that caused Kelly’s death, and he knows it. Why do you think he is crying so loudly?

    RT stop blaming everybody else for your lack of parental guidance and care to a sick, lonely, hurting child. You should not have left him to the elements in his condition!

    Enough with blaming everyone else.

    1. What. The. Fuck?

      Kelly was too sick and couldn’t take it. Kelly was a superman that gave Ramos and the five other goons the fight of their lives. So which is it?

      No, the cops are not MDs. Most of them barely got out of high school. But the personnel at UCI are MDs and so is the County’s medical officer. The cause of death was asphyxiation; the manner of death was cop(s).

    2. @Hog, You can tell all the world about how Ron Thomas should have given Kelly, “a warm, clean bed and a bath and a shave and a haircut and some good food and more than all of that a loving family.”

      BUT THAT DOES NOT ABSOLVE THE FULLERTON POLICE DEPARTMENT OF THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO ASSURE CITIZENS RECEIVE THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS OF DUE PROCESS AND NOT ABUSE, RAPE AND MURDER CITIZENS AND THEN TRY TO COVER IT UP AND SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG.

      The official primary cause of death was “anoxic encephalopathy with acute bronchopneumonia,” (asphyxia) caused by “mechanical chest compression with blunt cranial-facial injuries sustained during physical altercation with law enforcement.” http://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-for-Kelly-Thomas/202121386512154?sk=info

      Hog Wild stated, “Enough with blaming everyone else.”

      I am not blaming “everyone else.” I AM BLAMING the FPD for MURDERING and for AIDING and ABETTING in the MURDER of Kelly Thomas, -an innocent, unarmed man who was brutally bludgeoned and suffocated to DEATH while the FPD cowards were holding Kelly Thomas down on the ground.

      P.S. Please show me where it says in our U.S. Constitution that the FPD is allowed to bludgeon and suffocate someone to death who is a “smart mouth” or someone who hasn’t shaved and needs a bath and a haircut.

      Kelly did not suffer from “Excited Delirium.” However, Kelly Thomas DID suffer VERY greatly from TORTURE and MURDER by the Fullerton Police Department.

      I’d really like to pile six cops on top you, HOG WILD. Let the bulletproof vest wearing, obese Fullerton Police Dept. cops smash your head into the concrete curb, put you in a choke hold, suffocate you, compress and crush your thorax so that you can’t breathe, kick you repeatedly, strike you with repeated crushing baton blows, break your facial bones, break your nose, knee drop on your throat and face twice, taser you repeatedly in the chest and back, knee you, punch you, bludgeon your face and eye, let you choke on your blood running down your throat into your chest, and keep doing all of this until you are unconscious and then leave you unattended without any first aid!!!

      THEN, ofcourse, I will say that you, HOG WILD, died from “Excited Delirium.” And, of course, that you deserved it, because you were a “smart mouth.” Oh, and you hadn’t changed your underwear, so you surely deserved to die. Oh, and ofcourse, how your parents didn’t help you either, -so you deserved to be murdered.

      YOU need to research “excited delirium.” It absolutely does NOT apply to Kelly Thomas at all, or in any way. You are desperately, and futilely trying to make excuses for your family member who MURDERED, or AIDED and ABETTED in the MURDER of unarmed, innocent, helpless Kelly Thomas, who was being held down while he was bludgeoned to death, and while Kelly Thomas begged for mercy and begged for God and his father to save his life.

      Hog Wild, NO ONE believes your pathetic excuses for MURDERING an innocent man,- except for the FPD and some of their family members.

      Hog Wild, your name fits you; you are definitely “Wild.” You need to come back to civilization and realize that the U.S. Constitution is still in effect in our country. Citizens have civil rights and the right to DUE PROCESS OF LAW. The FPD denied Kelly Thomas his civil rights; they MURDERED Kelly Thomas in the street without a judge or jury.

      Why don’t you write some more about how Kelly Thomas needed a shave and a haircut. I guess it helps you sleep better at night if you keep telling yourself that people can be murdered with impunity if they need a bath and a haircut.

      1. Ron, I dont see anyone in the video holding Kelly down and beating him like you say. I see a fight. Kelly fought and the officers fought back. When Kelly stop fighting the officers stop fighting. The bottom line is the officers had a job to do. They need to arrest him and he fought them. Officers dont walk away when someone doesnt want to go to jail, regardless if he is mentally ill. Being mentally ill is not a get out of jail card.

      2. Excited Delirium. That is exactly what it was. Remember there were two coroners. Why only call one to testify? pick and choose from the DA.

  41. So you remove one company for another! Your point?! Another unfortunate incident happens and then what go to another company good grief! Whatever!! Same song and dance!! And Im sure someone will comment on this! LOL!!! Thats ok I wont be back to read it anyway! Pointless! Change? Change what? One band of boys for another? Yea ok! When it happens again or something isnt liked or ive been wronged! Then WHAT!? Oh thats right go to the next band of boys!!!!! LOL Y’all are funny!

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