Bad Company, Part I

Yes, we know the cops and their family members love the FPD. But you know who else loves the Fullerton police enough to chip in for those blue shirts?

Take a look at the most recent donations to the FPOA political committee for the period ending 6/30/12. It includes some familiar names.

Manuel Ramos

Jay Cicinelli

Albert Rincon

Sound familiar?




178 Replies to “Bad Company, Part I”

  1. the “we love Fullerton PD” supporters have no shame. How can anyone continue to support a police force with such a plentiful history of civil rights abuses towards the community it vowed to serve and protect?
    And speaking of plentiful history, there are plenty of past examples of people and political movements whose blind loyalty to grossly flawed, corrupt insitutions led to their political, economic and social downfall.

    1. One could theoretically continue to support such a Police Department due to the lack of a better alternative.

      Whitaker and Kiger make the argument that OCSD would be cheaper, but not that it would be better in the (important) respect you raise. Does OCSD have a “plentiful history of civil rights abuses”? If so, refer back to the first sentence.

      1. Wrong, dumbass. Kiger and Whitaker argued that the sheriffs MIGHT be cheaper or better, but that nobody knows unless there is a study.

        1. Three years ahead of time, nobody knows if it’s cheaper even if there IS a study. The point is that the shift to OCSD was defended at the meeting as a matter of cost savings, while they didn’t talk about the sort of “quality of service” issues raised here at all. In fact, when I spoke at the meeting, that was exactly my criticism of their action.

          Knowing the respective track records of FPD and OCSD — which we can asses NOW even prior to any study or proposal — should have come FIRST! That’s not part of an RFP, it’s part of an existing record. So I’ll ask again — how to FPD and OCSD compare historically in this respect?

            1. Review the video of the last meeting. You’re making a conclusory, insulting, and confident-sounding statement without having anything to back it up. No wonder you’re on FFFF’s editorial board (or whatever you call it.).

                1. Yeah — and no more true this time, either.

                  OK, this is boring. Call me a “goddamned liar” again if it floats your boat and we’ll be done with it.

        1. Right, they believe that the likelihood of its being cheaper is sufficiently large as to justify starting up the bid process now.

          Look at the damn videos of the last meeting and see what they said. It’s all saving money, nothing on quality of policing. You get the same thing from the pre-meeting LA Times article.

          1. What kind of damn fool would presume that a comparison would be done without any regard for quality?

            Oh, right. Greg Diamond. Intellectually dishonest without the intellect.

            1. Right now, at this moment, neither you nor Bruce and Travis know whether the OCSD’d overall record is twice as bad as that of FPD — but they still wanted that bid. Travis, in particular, didn’t care — he said that he wants the OCSD bid for bargaining leverage vs. FPOA (and people here agreed!) Again, it’s on the video of the meeting. It’s just not very persuasive to the public, which is why we see people here saying “oh, no, it’s all about who will do a better job of policing.”

              1. Right, it would be impossible to gather that information concurrently with OCSD preparing a bid.

                Hey how’s that defamation/takedown action of yours going? Nowhere? Yeah.

                1. I’ve been busy. It’s on the list after the Chris Thompson thing and the Chris Norby thing. It’s not ranked higher because unlike the others I no longer remember what it was about.

          2. “quality of policing”, look at these facts and the cost of their legal settlements to the Fullerton taxpayer: false arrest, perjury, molestation of female detainees in FPD squad cars, murder.
            How can you say quality and Fullerton PD in the same paragraph?

            1. How can you compare two organizations when you appear to know nothing about the track record of one of them?

              Your position is sort of like saying “Riverside County is too hot, so we should move to the surface of Venus.” You need to check out the alternative too.

              1. substituting Riverside County for Fullerton PD and Venus for OCSD does not support your assertion that OCSD is better or worse than FPD

                1. I’m not making that assertion. The proponents of the bid are — in apparently complete ignorance of whether it’s true.

              2. Study, Schmuddy!

                You WILL certainly see abuse and corruption with the Sheriff’s department throughout the various cities that OCSD serves.
                I would bet that if you averaged out the size of communities that are comperable in size to Fullerton policed by OCSD, FPD would have FAR more abuse reports than the cities serviced by OCSD.
                I would bet Greg Diamond annual incomes on that one, without research!

                1. Diamond’s annual income couldn’t pay for for one of those FPD decals.

                  FFFF has found about 20 FPD cops violating the law or looking the other way. There are probably lots more. Even 20 would be 14% of the force. For OCSD to be that bad they’d about 500 bad cops!

                2. That’s probably true — because you would not be controlling for differences in income and such. You think that San Clemente and Mission Viejo are as hard to police as Fullerton? Even Yorba Linda, which has nothing approaching an urban center, is a weak comparison. But still, it’s a good first step.

                3. Oh, the above was directed at “Wrong Guy,” not “Protect Norby’s Secrets Guy.” How much is a decal?

                  That “looking the other way” category is pretty broad. Would you bet B*shala’s annual income that 500 sheriffs could not be accused, using FFFF’s standards of proof, of “looking the other way”?

      2. fullerton police officers murdering a disabled , homeless man is a better alternative than a police force that doesn’t kill innocents?

    2. I know you don’t have the balls to post this Tony (Marlena has them now) but so much for your popcorn fart of a protest.
      11am, 20 protesters, 12n , 6 protesters (pathetic), 0 television cameras, priceless. When is the next protest? Can’t wait.

      1. Yeah, Kelly’s army ( of douchebags) is now on it’s way to imploding. That’s what happens when you follow a boob like Ron Thomas, who only came out of the woodwork when he smelled $$$.

      1. After I read your post, took a look again, your right, funny, the look on cicis mellon, looks to me like a turkey at Thanksgiving…

    1. Good point. Supposedly Rincon was “separated” last fall; Cicinelli and Ramos were supposedly on unpaid leave since September.

      So how can you make contributions to a PAC through payroll deductions if you aren’t on the payroll?

      Chief Danny please let us know how this is possible.

      1. One of the things public agencies need to figure out is how to extricate themselves from making these automatic deductions on behalf of the unions. Let the unions get a check from their own members. They do so much good for their members I’m sure it wouldnt be a problem having them all mail in the payments right?

  2. Cicinelli, Ramos and Rincon. The elephants in the FPOA living room.

    But don’t forget Wolfe, Craig, Blatney, Siliceo, Mater, Mejia, Power, Kirk, Coffman, Hampton, Nguyen, Wren, Tong, Thayer, Goodrich, Basham, etc.

  3. Joe Sipowicz :
    Good point. Supposedly Rincon was “separated” last fall; Cicinelli and Ramos were supposedly on unpaid leave since September.
    So how can you make contributions to a PAC through payroll deductions if you aren’t on the payroll?
    Chief Danny please let us know how this is possible.


    1. “I AM MOVING MY FAMILY AWAY”………. Hmmmmm


      I am in Santa Ana and we have here SAPD13 Walters/Pulido death squad so I would like to know where in the USA is not the government sponsored unionized paramilitary killing machine.

      1. I live in a great town in orange county but I will not tell you where Stanley as you might move here with Greg Diamond!! Our newspapers are already filled with enough news on housing repossessions!

  4. Uhh, hello?

    You’re missing something rather huge Joe Sipowicz. These are payroll deductions for the first six months of 2012. Ramos and Cicinelli were supposed to be on UNPAID leave since late 2011.

    So somebody needs to explain how they got a FPOA payroll deduction in 2012 to the tune of $90 each.

    1. Wrong, again. They are contributions to a political action committee and must be reported. The City is the money changer.

      I love the idea of making the union collect its own dues from its members.

    2. They all get going and say nothing. They ask and answer their own questions. Stupids!!
      The so call contribution is the association dues. Dumbshits. Cicinelli and Ramos contribute to it to pay their legal defense. Did you think they got that for free? Pendejos!!

  5. Joe Sipowicz :Good point. Supposedly Rincon was “separated” last fall; Cicinelli and Ramos were supposedly on unpaid leave since September.
    So how can you make contributions to a PAC through payroll deductions if you aren’t on the payroll?
    Chief Danny please let us know how this is possible.

    Hmmm. This deserves further examination. And it should be on the front burner, not the back one. Please don’t forget about it.

    Are they still being compensated in some manner ‘off the books’?

    Is it sort of like the mafia? Once you’re in you never really leave?

    You Fullerton taxpayers deserve an answer. And this is NOT protected under the Police Officer Bill of Right – you don’t let them stroke you with that explanation either.

    1. Wow. Could Chief Danny have lied about the real status of these guys?

      I think an explanation is in order. Maybe Hard-driving Sharon Quirk will get to the bottom of it. Or Mr. Mole Man.

  6. Stanley Fiala :
    I am in Santa Ana and we have here SAPD13 Walters/Pulido death squad so I would like to know where in the USA is not the government sponsored unionized paramilitary killing machine.

    Anticoruption Unit-FFFF Commenter, said his Dad helped clean up Ontario. Im sure there are many out there, OC is a CORRUPT place, I would give you links but its very sickening.

    Gotta look for great leadership, as the way a captain of a ship wmight set its future.

    1. Not if you get the day-olds! One can stretch that $90 into bearclaws galore! But if you’re really connected, you get them FREE! Then you can throw them at the homeless instead of having to actually get near them.

  7. actually, we get them free and go to the DMV parking lot after and eat them, then take naps. Don’t believe me? drive by the DMV at 5am

  8. This post means absolutely nothing. Must be a really slow news day. Or it could be Kiger and Whitaker trolling for dirt on their enemies.

    1. Hmm. You don’t find it interesting that a bunch of criminals have paid into the FPOA political slush fund? And that they have been doing so months after they were either fired or supposedly put on unpaid leave?

      I find it fascinating reading.

      1. This must be investigate by the current City Council in OPEN SESSION!

        This is MUCH too serious a matter to whitewash.

        Someone needs to step up to the microphone at next Tuesday’s meeting and demand an investigation in OPEN PUBLIC VIEW!!!

        The Council needs to question Danny Hughes on the floor of the meeting while the video is running.

        If he claims he cannot comment due to the Police Officer Bill of Rights – he needs to get fired on the spot.

        Do we have anyone with a set of gonads in Fullerton City government???

        That’s what I want to know.

      2. Not a slush fund dummy…Association dues. Whoever put out that information was fu*&king with you guys. Great Info…BAhahaaha!!

    1. Danny boy has some explaining to do! While your at it why don’t you ask him why he’s not listed on ANY of the lawsuits against the city??? hmmm

      1. Danny boy is not named on RT’s suit against Fullerton et al because he kisses ass, nasty lying sack of shit RT ass. Doesn’t get any nastier than that!

      1. squealing like a pig.

        Greg Diamond :
        Yeah — and no more true this time, either.
        OK, this is boring. Call me a “goddamned liar” again if it floats your boat and we’ll be done with it.

        Diamond’s comment was libelous and defamatory. I demand that it be removed immediately and that he issue a public apology to Mssrs Kiger and Whitaker.


            1. Boo hoo yourself, Tony.

              Seriously, thanks — every time I see your name it reminds me to work on the Norby piece.

  9. JustUs, I have the guts, integrity and determination to do what needs to be done once elected to be on the city council.

    I have stood up to Bankhead, Jones, and McKinley time after time. I will not back down. There is great satisfaction in knowing your have accomplished something for the greater good of the community.

    That is my pledge to all the citizens of Fullerton

    1. Barry, I don’t know you from Adam. I only know what I read in these comments. They say you are a liberal. That alone is not a disqualifier IMO. But you must have a history. Everybody does. I would like to see what you’ve stood for in the past. The question is will you confront Hughes and FPD and demand them to come clean? Or will you roll over like Quirk, Chafee and Sebourn have done? Will you wear a blue shirt on the dais too?

      Talk is cheap, Barry. You are going to have to pledge much more than “I will not back down”. Any clown could make that statement. Write up a list of pledges and at the end state “If I do not comply the the aforemention pledges I have made in this statement I will resign my post on the City Council and for every day that I am in non-compliance of my pledges and remain on the Council I will forfeit $100 of my personal funds to the Kelly Thomas Foundation for the Homeless”

      I want some candidates to walk their talk and risk something other than the ability to look themselves in the mirror in the morning.

      Besides, I am only a spectator, Barry. You’ve got nothing to prove to me. I have no vote to give you. But I am still waiting for one politician who’s more human than he is a shyster. Someone who will look Hughes in the eye from the dias at a public meeting and say “When are you going to make amends to the Citizens of Fullerton for your wrongdoings of the past and beg for their mercy and forgiveness?”

      When that candidate pops up I will send a generous donation.

      And I’m not holding my breath either, Barry.

      1. I like your line to Hughes, and would further ask “what specific quantifiable, and verifiable, measures has Hughes taken with the rest of the personnel with the Fullerton Police Department to eradicate the existing corruption within his police department

    2. Barry you are psychotic. I hope you never get on the city council. YOu are a dangers man. You claimed all the cops were corrupt. They rewrote their reports. All kinds of shit you said against the cops and praised RT. YOu are a mess.

    3. Barry all I saw you do was yell and act out of control at council meetings. If you felt important yelling at 3 old men good for you. Let’s see you act that way towards your buddies that for now sit there. You could have last council meeting but you were busy speaking with the grand puppet master. I would like full financial disclosure on all candidates to see if there is anything in their past finances that may be alarming. Did you write that ordinance or did the PD and attorney write it? Skate park should have remained closed. My opinion but no way would I ever vote for you. I would rather vote for that school board guy that runs around town all day and night.

  10. Aug 24th Ramos and Cicinelli Bobbleheads at OCSC. Wear your blue I Love Fullerton T-Shirt get a free bobblehead.

  11. JustUs:

    I have demanded answers from Chief Hughes at council meetings. I wanted to know why it took 20-30 minutes from the time the beating death of Kelly ended to the time, Chief Hughes states he was called by his subordinates.
    After all those 6 men were under Captain Hughes comand.

    I also stood up to C. Pat McKinley many times at council, leading the way, asking for all 3 recalled members to resign immediately.

    I have spent approx 55,000 of my own money running for council. I have not taken a penny from any union. I have no financial interests in the city nor would my financial situation improve being on the council. If it was about ego or money, I would never have run at all.

    Here is my candidate statement to give you a little background about me. Feel free to call me if you want to talk to me. I am available to all.
    Barry Levinson, Auditor/Parks Commissioner
    I am running to help our city recover from the effects of years of cronyism and lack of accountability. The mandate the voters gave in June must continue.
    I am the only candidate running who:
    actively supported the Recall and received the highest vote tally of any runner-up in all 3 races;
    has a verifiable record of attending almost every City Council meeting the past three years;
    has a consistent record of challenging the City Council on decisions that were not in the best interest of the voters.
    My MBA degree and my auditing experience make me uniquely qualified to navigate us out of the financial crisis we are in. I will fight for real reform that is fair and reasonable for all sides. As your elected Council member I will always represent the residents of Fullerton above all else.
    I successfully spearheaded the effort to get Fullerton Ordinance No. 3149 passed to protect our children from dangerous sexual predators. As Parks Commissioner I helped reopen the skate park at Independence Park this past summer. Let me continue to serve this community as your next council member.
    I respectfully ask for your vote and your support.

    1. Barry, that was a very nice self-promotion and I applaud you. You come across as an intelligent man. By your description you appear very engaged in the civic process. You seem to have a strong academic background that is suited for the job. With that said, I am still not convinced. I invite others to tell us what you know about Barry’s background and civic history so that we can get a panorama view of what Barry is all about. Please stick to the facts and no candidate bashing. Let’s be fair.

      I would like to know more about your viewpoints on taxation and government spending, Barry. What do you think is the solution to Fullerton’s fiscal problems? More taxation or bigger cuts?

      What do you think of defined benefit pensions for public employees? Do you think we should continue to finance pensions or move to defined contribution benefits like most of the private sector has done.

      W/regard to 3149 you might think that the knee jerk response from the public would be standing ovations and great accolades for you. Sorry, what you did actually makes me question whether you are just a grandstander for political expedience at the expense of exploiting our justice system. Although all of us find sexual acts perpetrated against children as repulsive – once a man has completed his jail sentence, probation, parole, etc… and paid his debt to society – he should be a free man. If he is still a threat to children he should be kept in jail. Would you support a law that all former bank or store robbers who paid their debt to society be forbidden from using such commercial retail establishments? Should all former drug offenders be forced to give routine blood tests for the rest of their lives? Should anyone involved in an accident and charged criminally for reckless driving or negligence be prohibited from ever driving a car? I firmly believe that once a man has paid his debt to society that he should be a free man. That is what our very Constitution stands for. So I question your 3149 ordinance. I think it is a very slippery slope and that politicians like youself are jumping all over it for a positive emotional response from the public without giving a second thought of the damage it does to the original intent of our justice system. Please respond.

      I will read other comments as they come in about your suitability for a council seat. Naturally, you will have a chance to rebut any negative comments. I will keep an open mind. Even though I cannot vote in Fullerton – you have my consideration as a suitable candidate for a seat.

      I am disappointed that you avoided my suggestion to write up a statement of pledges to the citizens and vow to resign your position if you fail to comply with your promises and pay $100/day for every day you retain your Council seat while in non-compliance. Now something like that would get my attention, Barry. You would go to the front of the class immediately. And I don’t believe it’s asking for too much. It’s simply asking that you comply with your campaign promises or resign your seat. If I were running for office that’s EXACTLY what I would do. But then I am cut from a different cloth than most politicians too. 😉

    2. Rhats great Berry but please tell us why you are qualified to run a city when you filed BQ in your own personal life?

  12. JustUs:

    I have been a conservative Republican my entire life. Anyone who says differently is just a liar. Please tell me who those liars are. I would certainly like to know thier names.

    1. Thank you for corrrecting that, Barry.

      I read a comment(s) that said you were of a liberal bent. To me it doesn’t matter either way. Integrity, courage, transparency, and the willingness to confront wrongdoers IN PUBLIC even if it could result in political retaliation is what I’m looking for.

      I would have the utmost respect for a ONE-TERMER council person who played the role of a bull in a china shop with NO intention of a second term. Someone who had no scruples about offending wrongdoers before the PUBLIC eye, even fellow councilmen or women. Someone with no political inhibitions. Someone with no interest in making politics a career.

      That is the sort of person I would love to see on the Fullerton city council.

    2. Don’t you identify as a

      Fiscal conservative and

      Social progressive?

      If so I’d like to know what you mean by social progressive. I have a hard time wrapping my head around how those two positions work together….

    3. Ummmm, dont think so. Skatepark was a great idea, been by lately to see how trashed it is? No vote here

  13. John Doe:

    You have no integrity because what you just wrote is not true.

    Anyone like yourself who can lie so easily is the dangerous man.

    I pray you are not on the Fullerton Police Department.

    1. I was born with integrity. And all I wrote was the truth. Cause I was at those council meetings also. And I cringed everytime you walked up there. If you set up that ordinance, good for you. Cause that is the only thing that you have done for the city other than embarrassing yourself.

    2. Barry, don’t worry about John Doe.

      The fact that he dislikes you is actually a big plus for me. You just moved up a few notches. And I think most readers of FFFF would agree with me.

      Let him spout off. He is a cheap public advertisement for your campaign.

  14. Just for the record John Doe. Anyone can go to the video tapes of past city council meetings and listen to me praise former Acting Chief Kevin Hamilton for the great work he did in helping my wife and I to get an ordinancce passed in Fullerton (Ord No. 3149) which restricts child sexual predators from living within 2,000 feet of a school, day care center or park in the city of Fullerton.

    If you are a Fullerton Police Officer you already knew that piece of information.

  15. I am talking about the stupid speeches you gave reference Kelly Thomas and the officers involved. YOu looked like a stupid jackass up there. But look how everything is unfolding. Now does that make you feel stupid?
    Ron Thomas is gone. The mom got her millions. Kelly’s Army is no more….All gone like a fart in the wind.

    1. You’d know all about farts in the wind, wouldn’t ya buddy?

      Poop, wipe, post, repeat. The defamatory life of John Doe continues.

        1. Talented. No doubt that fart story should be on Americas Finniest Home Videos. Would be a winner. That pig had balls. Deserves an award.

    2. The mom got exactly $1,000,000 which is not millions. That was on this blog site a number of times. The fact that you chose to say “the mom got her millions.” shows me how easily you lie as an FPD member and apologist.
      Most people would think when a million is paid out for a killing, all those involved need to be reprimanded, demoted, or worse.
      “Ron Thomas is gone”, is another complete fabrication. He filed his lawsuit, it will be worth millions more dollars. So why should he be upsetting the very city council who have to approve the settlement? Ask any attorney.
      Seems like John Doe is a fart in the wind. Were you one of the police officers in Fullerton who farted on that woman while she was down? Seems like those donuts are causing you gas!

  16. Tony you are a piece of shit that does not post some of John Doe’s comments. You don’t want to hear the truth so you block him. Fucking coward. Everyone thinks you are all that. But you know that I know that you are not. What goes around comes around. Karma is a bitch! !

  17. 20 protesters is still about 17 more than Ramos and Cicinelli will have when they get convicted. If more of the “cops” on this site would just admit that these and other criminals on the force need to be fired and incarcerated, the decent, hard-working officers in Fullerton would not face public condemnation, constant scrutiny, and be in danger of losing their jobs once their contract expires or the city-council finally gets a majority that is fed up with monthly beating, rapes, and murders committed by thugs with badges.

  18. Yep, karma, is a bitch. Especially for sadistic murderers who stand around laughing after they beat and suffocate a man to death for kicks. I wonder what Jesus would say about these “men.”

      Published: Aug. 17, 2012 Updated: Aug. 18, 2012 10:31 p.m.
      Public safety disability system ‘ripe for abuse’

      Prosecutors labeled Kluchonic, then 43, a deputy out of control. But his trial on misdemeanor charges ended in a hung jury. Prosecutors offered Kluchonic a deal: do 80 hours of community service and we won’t re-try the case.
      Kluchonic agreed – and applied for a disability retirement.
      He claimed his wrists, hands, left knee, back and neck were injured in an on-duty traffic accident five years before he was charged – and that his “psyche” suffered from being criminally accused.
      Kluchonic received a workers’ compensation settlement of $99,000 and an annual disability pension of $47,000 from the Orange County Employees Retirement System.
      “I resigned because I couldn’t afford to defend myself and I couldn’t do the physical job anymore,” Kluchonic said last month, speaking by phone from his home in rural New York State.

  19. Greg Diamond :
    I’ve been busy. It’s on the list after the Chris Thompson thing and the Chris Norby thing. It’s not ranked higher because unlike the others I no longer remember what it was about.

    “I will do anything except win an election to appear relevant.”

    1. I’ll try to win the election too — where’s your contribution, by the way? But the other two are more under my personal control.

  20. Those people should be wearing T-Shirts that read:

    “I love my tax payer funded gravy train.” On front of T-shirt, and

    “Fullerton Police Union members deserve $110 an hour for life.” On back of T-Shirt.

    So Fullerton tax payers need to stop whining and be nice slaves and get back to digging those ditches at $10/hour so the government employee union members can get their fair share.

    After all it takes an high school education 6 months of training and knowing the right people to become a Fullerton Cop. We deserve to be paid more than Doctors and Engineers and all those greedy people who start businesses.

    Basically, just shut-up and work and send us your money, you ungrateful swine.

  21. Rocky Raccoon :Tony you are a piece of shit that does not post some of John Doe’s comments. You don’t want to hear the truth so you block him. Fucking coward. Everyone thinks you are all that. But you know that I know that you are not. What goes around comes around. Karma is a bitch! !

    John Doe :That is right. I can shit and fart on command. I bet you cant do that, Anusmous!

    And this idiots comments are relevant, why?

  22. That would be understandable, if what they posted were clever, its barley coherent. To be quite honest I eased up on jd because I suspected at one point that he might be developmentally disabled. By thier idiotic comments, they continue to prove ffff arguments.

    1. You need to take a laxative. You take all of this way too seriously. Whatever JD’s motivation, he has the right to express his point of view. Your interpretation is secondary and biassed.

  23. I loved looking at the full list of names of FPD members. There sure are a lot of them who have been fired or “left the force”! Now if I had the time I would find out how few FPD members actually live in Fullerton. If you think your interests as a Fullerton Taxpayer are the same as FPD’s just look up and see how many are really your neighbors. Lets see, my street has a Long Beach peace officer and a retired LA PD commander and thats a fairly long commute. So I would guess that few police officers from Fullerton actually live and raise their kids in Fullerton. So their importance list is:1. Health benefits, 2. Pension benefits, 3. Pay and Overtime.
    Not on their list of importance: 1. How FPD is perceived by the Fullerton Community. 2. Squealing on their fellow officers due to an overzealous beating or a busted recording device in the lockup. 3. Getting jailtime for stealing!

  24. JustUs I would like to give you and all others who frequent this site some additional information.

    My wiife and I worked day and night to get a well written ordinance passed in this city.

    It was done for one reason only. To protect as much as possible those people in society that can not protect themselves, i.e. children.

    When a 4 time convicted child sex offender inherited the home next to my family and bragged to my neighbors about his sexual deviance, you bet I took action.

    I am not a career politician but I am a concerned citizen who wants to make my city better.

    Again, I offer to you and all that want to have a meaningful and respectful conversation to call me at 714-931-7646 and I will answer any serious question with a staightforward answer.

    1. Barry,

      An anon poster above implied that you may have identified yourself as a ‘social progressive’. Did you? And what exactly does that mean as related to the City of Fullerton? What are some socially progressive goals you have for Fullerton?

      I think there are 2 issues that you should address on this board.

      #1 – Are you in favor of higher city taxes to increase Fullerton’s financial reserves?

      #2 – Do you support defined pension benefits for city workers – or would rather move them to defined contribution plans?

      I think those 2 questions deserve a public (not a phone) response.

      This is not meant to put you on the spot. Just for coming on the board (when others refuse) you deserve heightened consideration from the voters. I respect your initiative here. IMO you are now a serious candidate who deserves recognition.

      I disagree with your 3149 ordinance. Once a man has paid his debt to society he should be able to go anywhere he wants without restriction. Otherwise we do not live in a free society. If he is still danger to society they should have never let him out of jail. It is not your place to continue to punish a man (or woman) once the debt owed has been paid. What you are promoting is a form of fascism IMO. But that one issue does not disqualify you from consideration. No one is perfect.

      1. Don’t knock 3149. Pedophiles and other sex criminals are generally incurable-if you don’t believe me, research it if 3149 bothers you that much. A “run of the mill” murderer has a better chance at reform than a sex criminal.

        1. Do you have peer reviewed studies to substantiate your claim, or is that something someone told you or conclusions you’ve drawn from personal experiences?

          Someone told me that bank robbers are incurable. So why don’t we forbid former bank robbers from living within 2000 ft of a bank or from entering the premises of a bank? Someone told me that the recitivism rate for drunk drivers is high. So why don’t we ban all those with a DUI conviction from operating a motor vehicle and endangering lives? Shoplifters are said to be incurable. Why don’t we forbid them from all retail stores? Why don’t we forbid all aldulterers from living within 200 ft. from a church???

          Get my point, Doc? Sex crimes are detestable. But if the perpetrators are ‘incurable’ then keep them in jail? Forbidding them from entering a park is not going to stop them from reoffending, is it? Do sex crimes only take place in parks?

          I believe in civil rights. Punishing a man or a woman who has repaid their debt to society for the rest of their lives is as detestable as the crime that they committed. It goes against the grain of what this once great nation stood for.

          We were not meant to be a fascist society.

          IMO politicians jump aboard the 3149 type ordinances to grandstand for political expedience. But they are certainly not friends of our Founding Fathers or of the original design of our nation.

          1. DUI is a combination of alcoholism and bad judgement-at least the alcoholism is treatable. Breaking a psycho sexual obsession or fixation is a lot more problematic. DUI, bank robbery, shoplifting are pretty pedestrian crimes. In my years of practicing forensic psychiatry I’ve never seen a sex criminal, pedophiles in particular, ever brought to a state where you could call them “cured.”

            1. “In my years of practicing forensic psychiatry I’ve never seen a sex criminal, pedophiles in particular, ever brought to a state where you could call them “cured.”

              If you are a forensic psychiatrist you must be familiar with medical literature on the subject matter. Can you cite any peer reviewed studies that document your claim that pedophiles are incurable?

              How pray tell is forbidding convicted sex offenders from entering parks going to prevent them from reoffending? It would seem to make more sense to forbid them from attending carnivals or circuses. Are sex offenders banned from going to Chuck E. Cheese for pizza?

              Sorry, doc. It’s my opinion that 3149 was a bill designed for political grandstanding by opportunist politicians which does nothing to prevent sex crimes. Has the incidence of sex crimes dropped in Fullerton or in any city that has adopted such an ordinance? I highly doubt it.

              If a man is so dangerous that he cannot be allowed to walk in a city park then he belongs in jail.

              These people are modern day Carry Nation’s looking for attention.

              1. Here, this might help:


                Registered sex offenders recidivate at a rate of 66.9 percent in the California system.

                I would have to agree with you that there is a lot of grandstanding with these sorts of laws. There is some logic to keeping the shark out of the bait tank, however.

                So, it’s basically a matter of time even if the felon is being treated.

                1. Thank you, doc.

                  So the study says that 2 of every 3 reoffend. So that means that 1 of every 3 is unjustly punished with laws like 3149 after he repaid his debt to society.

                  And of that 66.9% how many of those reoffended in a city park versus, let’s say, at a sports stadium, at a pizza parlor, at a public swimming pool or in a relative’s home?

                  I consider 3149 a slippery slope, doc. Since everybody hates sex criminals politician use such laws as political red meat. Where will we go next? Public stonings for all adulterers?

  25. I have enjoyed our back and forth conversation here.

    In the course of my involvement with city government, I have addressed the city council on every important topic facing the city and anyone can pull up those videos from the city of Fullerton site.

    However, I am not going to wage my campaign from this blog site.

    My ealier requests above were very clear. I have asked those that are truly interested to call me, read my website,
    and also go to the city of Fullerton website. Under city clerk, then agendas you will find dozens of my comments on all the subjects you have brought out here on this site and others. I have done this on a regular basis since the spring/summer of 2010 til the present.

    1. Well Barry – I gave you an opportunity. You folded, my friend.

      You should be proud of your viewpoints on city taxes or government pension plans. Those are VERY BASIC questions that we expect politicians to answer publicly without hesitation. Running away is not a good choice. I was not asking you to wage your campaign on this blog site. Giving us your opinion on city taxes and government pension plans is hardly waging a campaign. Those answers should roll off your tongue. What are you scared of?

      Now you’ve lost a couple points IMO, Barry. You’ve shown to me that you are really no different from all the rest. If I had a vote chances are it would not go to you.

      But I wish you well. I hope you enjoy the election process.

  26. TimeWillTell :You need to take a laxative. You take all of this way too seriously. Whatever JD’s motivation, he has the right to express his point of view. Your interpretation is secondary and biassed.

    Thats right, I do take MURDER seriosly, if you had any sense you would too,

    TimeWillTell :Why don’t ya’ll get back to your moon shine and squealing like a pig.

    Oh, interpret this how you would like, You are an idiot.

  27. Greg Diamond :
    I’m not making that assertion. The proponents of the bid are — in apparently complete ignorance of whether it’s true.

    Bid? What Bid? You are a liar.

    1. I refer to the bid that would presumably follow in the wake of the initial report if the notion of moving to OCSD is to be taken seriously. If you’d prefer that I say “proponents of beginning the process of seeking a bid,” that’s fine too.

      This “you’re a liar” stuff is amusing. It shows real sensitivity to danger on the FFFFsters’ part. I’m happy to explain it as many times as is necessary, though, so keep on going if you must!

        1. If you want to do A (obtain report) because it will allow you to do B (obtain bid), it is fair to describe you as a proponent of being able to do B.

          Kiger is apparently more of a proponent of threatening to do B to gain an advantage in labor negotiations that won’t begin for over a year, but that’s a lot to say repeatedly. “Proponent of a bid” is a fair summary.

  28. Porky Pig :Easier to be quiet. Then they keep their jobs. Speak up they will end up being forced out. Duh.

    Easier to be gutless cowards, outside of your baby blue shirt wearing cult members, that is how fpd is viewed. fpd is not only a nationwide, but a world wide joke. Fpd staffed by gutless, murdering, liars and perverts, here is your legacy, you creeps earned it!!!

  29. Porky Pig :Talented. No doubt that fart story should be on Americas Finniest Home Videos. Would be a winner. That pig had balls. Deserves an award.

    The post by this idiot, is pretty self explanitory, vote for a change in Nov. No more baby blue shirt city council members or Fullerton deserves what it gets.

    1. I sure hope a city councilman looks into how a fired cop who was in Theo Lacy last year can still be making payroll deductions to the union’s PAC.

      1. If there was ONE councilman who owned a set he would ask that question to Hughes point blank at the next Council meeting.

        And the follow-up question would be why the other cop was awarded a certificate of valor for pulling a car accident victim from a burning car when he did not arrive on the scene until after the victim has been extricated by a could civilian bystanders.

        If I were a Councilman I would ask those questions to the Chief in public. I would not do it during a closed door session or in a confidential memo.

        The citizens of Fullerton deserve answers.

        If people are embarrassed, so what? We need to bring shame back to the public forum to start the process of restoring integrity to a corrupted system.

        1. Standard. You believing a lying stealing parolee by just what he says. You lose credibility by the day. Well actually you lost it when you switched from the name Anti Corruption Unit to JustUs. You sir are a worthless piece is shit.

          1. hee-hee.

            Did I hit a little too close to home on that one?

            Who exactly is a ‘lying stealing parolee’? You lost me on that one.

            No ties to poster Anti-Corruption whatsoever. So as usual you’re wrong on that too.

            Anyone who opposes transparency in government is part of the ‘culture of corruption’. How does that shoe fit? 😀

  30. Relating to Ord. No. 3149, the doctor quoted how often a convicted sex offender is caught reoffending.

    We also know that most criminal acts go unpunished especially in the case of sex crimes.

    Therefore, we know that the recidivism rate is actually much higher than 2 out of 3.

    Also the doctor stated that he has never known a pedophile to be cured. Therefore, for both reasons it makes the utmost sense to keep these people away from places where high numbers of children congregate.

    Sexually assaulting a minor is a disgusting criminal act that will harm the victim for the rest of their lives.

    1. You support the slippery slope. A very dangerous precedent.

      If they can do it to sex offenders, they can do it to drunks, to adulterers, to drug users, to gamblers, to shoplifters, or to any other category of deviants that they choose to pick on in the name of political expedience.

      If someone is so dangerous that he or she must be banned from walking in a city park – then he or she should have never been released from jail in the first place.

      And where is it shown that most sex offenses occur in parks??? Show me that study too. Total baloney.

      Beware when they tell you their intent is to make you safer. That is the last thing on their minds.

      But go ahead and swallow the bait. You have that right under the Constitution – unless they take that away too! 😉

      1. Nobody is taking away anybody’s opportunity to start a new life. I think you’re the one creating the slippery slope with this last post, at least greasing it. Sex offenders are different than ordinary criminals. You can’t compare shoplifters and car thieves with these people.

        Now, I will tell you where I’m not comfortable. It is the odd case of a normal 18 year old male having sex with a consenting 17 year old female. I don’t like the sex-offender tag unless the kid is indeed a real sexual predator.

        All we can do is try and protect the public (priority 1) and treat the offender (priority 2).

        To address the issue of parks, that’s where kids hang out. Need I say more?

        I know this is a libertarian issue with you, but don’t test it out on the sex offenders. It’s a mistake.

        1. Taxpayers are paying for hotel and motel rooms for some of the released sex offenders. Families travel and stay at these places without knowledge.
          People who live near these areas also have not been notified.

          1. Excellent point, anon.

            It only shows the hypocrisy and irony of these stupid laws enacted by grandstanding politicians.

            These same politicians will place sex offenders in motels around families with children – yet the sex offender cannot walk into a city park!!! 😀

            PURE STUPIDITY!!!!

        2. “Nobody is taking away anybody’s opportunity to start a new life”

          You bet they’re taking away a piece of their lives. They are forbidden from walking in a park. How would you like to be a criminal who has repaid his to society, remained clean and then ordered to never walk into a city park for the rest of his life in Orange County? I bet you wouldn’t like it.

          “Sex offenders are different than ordinary criminals”

          Different than muggers, strongarmers, wife beaters, arsons, murderers, etc… Those criminals are just as dangerous. Yet when they repay their debt to society no one forbids them from walking through a park.

          “It is the odd case of a normal 18 year old male having sex with a consenting 17 year old female”

          A good example is ex-Deputy Chief Haidl’s teen-age kid and his friends who were forced to register as sex offenders after they were found guilty of raping the teen-age girl about their same age at a party. All will never be able to walk into an Orange County park again. Pure stupidity perpetuated for political expedience.

          “All we can do is try and protect the public (priority 1) and treat the offender (priority 2)”

          Then why not support a ban on former bank robbers from entering banks or a ban on former drug abusers from entering parks too? Hypes are known to frequent parks and leave their needles lying around. Aren’t they a danger to the children?

          “To address the issue of parks, that’s where kids hang out. Need I say more?”

          That is not a satisfactory answer IMO. There are other places that children frequent more often. Parades, carnivals, circuses, swimming pools, etc.. Why focus on parks? Do you have any evidence that sex crimes are committed more often in parks than other public places? If so, cite the source. If not, your support of banning sex offenders from only going into parks does not make much sense to me.

          I am a big believer in civil rights and freedom, doc. I know there aren’t many around like me anymore. Both my father and I served to protect those rights. Most believe today that might makes right. We are not the same nation were were 30 years ago. Violating the US Constitution has become a sport in America. I do not want to live under fascist rule.

          IMO 3149 is political fodder for political tyrants who wish to usurp our civil liberties and make themselves look good in the process. It is an end around our justice system. Just like the Patriot Act.

          Has the incidence of sex crime gone down in Fullerton since 3149 became law? Has the incidence of sex crimes gone down in ANY city that has enacted a 3149 type law? Well, has it, doc?

          What % of sex crimes take place in parks, doc? If you support 3149 you must know the answer to that question. Wouldn’t that be one of the first questions you would ask? You are a psychiatrist. You must be an intelligent man.

          If a man is so dangerous that it is not safe for him to walk into a park he belongs in jail. Period.

  31. Dr. Rosenhal thank you for your professional wisdom and experience.

    You are correct that an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old is not a sexual predator. But you hit the nail on the head when saying that JustUs is loosiing perspective because he sees everything through a libertarian lense.

    Let us ask him if he would rent a room to a convicted sex offender in his house right next to his daughter or son’s room. I doubt it. So much for your slippery slope.

  32. I now live in what would be considered an “upscale” apartment complex; because government (HUD) funds partially financed its construction there are a certain amount of units set aside for low-income (Section 8) recipients – among which are registered sex offenders (the type that like young children) that can be found on Megan’s List. This was never told to residents; we learned it on our own. While this is an age-restricted complex, there are children who visit.

    1. I am telling you, peaches….they are hypocrites. They tell you that they are society’s protectors because they ban sex offenders from parks – but they would NEVER tell you that they support putting sex offenders into apartment buildings frequented by children!!!

      Never believe any of them, peaches!

  33. “But you hit the nail on the head when saying that JustUs is loosiing perspective because he sees everything through a libertarian lense”

    No. I just can’t stand grandstanding politicians who enact laws for purposes of political expedience under the illusion of keeping us safer. It is an abuse of power.

    “Let us ask him if he would rent a room to a convicted sex offender in his house right next to his daughter or son’s room”

    Of course I wouldn’t. But I am a private individual and will rent or not rent to anyone I want as long as it is in compliance with the law.

    But I would never have the gall to tell that same sex offender that you is forbidden from sitting on the grass in the park down the street. Hell, I am not a tyrant!!!

  34. JustUs, those in the psychiatric community share your concerns, myself included. You need a different perspective. For ten years I traveled a circuit in the Midwest that included ten hospitals that were on par with Atascadero and Patton. You have to see what we do on a daily basis. Psychiatry is not perfect and if I had better manual dexterity, I would have become a surgeon.

    The work I’m doing today centers around the effects red-lining sex offenders and their integration back into society. We’re about a good year from a conclusion. It’s an extremely relevant issue, but don’t be terribly surprised at the findings. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the prospects of “curing” a sex offender are very slim, especially where pedophilia is indicated. Climbing into the heads of these people is like peeling an onion.

  35. I respect the work of the psychatric community and understand that you have limited control over the outcome of your work. Much of your success is dependent on the latest psychiatric drugs and the motivation level of your patients. I can only imagine the frustration that you and your colleagues must experience on a daily basis.

    I just refuse to support modern day ‘witch hunts’, doc. I won’t do it. Not when the purpose is to make politicians look like heroes while they destroy the civil liberties of our fellow Americans. This society has proudly stood for the right to innocence until proven guilty and that once a man has repaid his debts to society to wipe the slate clean and allow him to reenter society with all the unalienable rights guaranteed to the rest of us. If a man is so dangerous that he must be banned from walking into a park for a lifetime AFTER he has repaid his debts – then he should still be in jail.

    It is a MYTH that most sexual attacks occur in parks, doc. You know that. So the entire basis of this law is faulty from the get-go.

    I don’t like sexual predators any more than the next guy does. But my passion to protect our sacred civil rights in America far outweighs any desire to impose lifetime punishment on any class of criminal who has fulfilled his punitive obligation to the state.

  36. Myth? Well, since you’re so frequently demanding data to support other’s claims– let’s see your data on this one.

    Show me data that demonstrates that sexual predators of children do not stalk and select their victims at places where youth congregates– including schools and parks.

    Would love to see that fantastic study that’s paid for by NAMBLA.

    Myth my ass.

  37. “Show me data that demonstrates that sexual predators of children do not stalk and select their victims at places where youth congregates– including schools and parks”

    It’s ludicrous to think that the large majority of sexual predator attacks occur in parks. I suspect most take place in the homes of relatives who have children. Did 3149 include forbidding convicted sexual predators who have completed their punitive obligations to the state from frequenting schools for a lifetime? If so, I must have missed that. To my knowledge 3149 focused ONLY on city parks. So either YOU are misinformed or I am. I suspect that YOU are the misinformed one here. And if so, your comment on schools is irrelevant.

    Just curious. Are convicted gay adult males who frequent parks in search of sexual contacts with one another and who completed their judicial punishment banned from parks too under 3149? Does it apply to ALL convicted sexual criminals or only to pedophiles? Is a man convicted of raping a woman at a private residence who completed his judicial punishment banned from parks too? does 3149 apply to ALL sexual criminals or only to pedophiles?

    “Myth my ass”

    You have no evidence that most sexual attacks on children occur in city parks. Any cop who investigates sex crimes on children would confirm that only a small percentage do.
    Stop perpetuating myths.

  38. Did you folks hear about SB 1530 in the CA legislature? It would have made it much easier to fire pedophile teachers – after the recent story about the Miramonte teacher convicted of molesting 13 children over many years. SB 1530 sailed through the state senate with only 7 ‘no’ votes. Before going to the Assembly floor for a final vote it had to first get approved in the Assembly Education Committee. It failed to get the majority votes. The democrats voted it down. So if they want to strengthen pedophile laws against teachers who have full access to children the politicians vote it down because they’re getting their pockets padded by the unions. They let the children twist in the wind. But if they can get some political mileage out of outlawing convicted sex offenders (who have no union representing them) from city parks all vote “yes”. The hypocrisy we see on the political front is so outrageous. It all comes down to self-promotion.

  39. Okay, so let me get this straight. The cops are paying for t-shirts to essentially say “I LOVE MYSELF.”

    And let see what else: Collectively, they raised $23,360 to say, “I LOVE MYSELF.”

    WTF is this: vanity day? That’s a lot of loot to pay out to wear a t-shirt that proclaims self love.

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