A Psychological Profile

I have been wondering lately about the sort of personality of the policemen involved in the brutal Kelly Thomas killing, as well as the character types of the trolls who have been making comments attacking both the victim and the victim’s family.

For assistance in this matter I have called upon Dr. Reinhold Ott of the Schwabian Institut fur Psychologie in Tubingen, Germany, who has provided his expert psychological insights for us in the past.

The penetrating gaze of Dr. Reinhold Ott, M.D., Ph.D

Here is what the learned Dr. Ott had to say:

I believe the character study you have asked be to perform is relatively simple although, of course, not having the opportunity to study these subjects directly in substantive analysis, my conclusion may be considered tentative. Nevertheless, the personality profiles of the individuals involved in this horrific event and those who choose to gratuitously denigrate both the victim and his family for perverse reasons are actually quite common and easy recognize.

People who lack empathy completely, as is apparent in this instance, display a type of personality disorder known as narcissism; a disorder that is comparatively harmless in most cases, but that can become problematic when excessively narcissistic individuals are placed in positions of authority. The civilian overseers of police agencies and military forces the world over have always had to deal with this problem.

When this type of disorder is matched with a sadistic temperament (a temperament whose roots may extend from various sources) the consequences are bound to be disastrous, particularly when the individual is not only placed in a position of authority, but who is also heavily armed.

My suspicion is that the individuals involved in perpetrating this act on a helpless victim all suffer in varying degrees from similar childhood issues, most notably the absence of a strong paternal presence, or as is equally likely to be the case, the presence of a father who had an ambiguous relationship with the law and may have even been incarcerated. We cannot discount the strong possibility that a verbally or physically abusive relationship existed.

Such children find it extremely difficult to mature into a constructive adulthood, lacking a positive role model; their world view tends to be judgmental, parochial and self-centered. Moral confusion and self-aggrandizement lead to an exaggerated sense of self-esteem.

Equally problematic is the guilt/anger issues that attach to such children, most particularly boys, and if left unchecked, can generate into both a paranoia and, in extreme cases, a deep-seated sadism.

I would also be remiss if I omitted reference to the possibility of a pharmacological connection, the use of certain drugs tending to exacerbate already sever behavioral issues.

The drama of the night in question may be open to some interpretation, but the physical consequences of the encounter between Mr. Thomas and his assailants are fairly eloquent. I find it fascinating that the victim’s cries for his father appear to have caused no sympathetic reaction on the part of his attackers. Rather, the opposite seems to be true: at least some of the police seem to have been further enraged by those pathetic cries for help, and continued the attack until the cries were silenced – forever.

I would tend to ascribe the same analysis to those of your readers who choose to attack the victim and his family. My suspicion is that these individuals suffer from a severe personality defect in which pleasure in the attempt to induce pain on others is the result of a lack of positive accomplishment and more specifically, the absence of non-auto erotic gratification. The lack of mature observation and demonstrable education in the instances I have observed also indicates the strong possibility that these people may, in fact, be children posing as adults.

Well, thank you for that Dr. Ott. This explains a lot.

713 Replies to “A Psychological Profile”

    1. It does a little bit. Most cops were either the bullies in school, or they were the ones bullied. One carries on the tradition of bullying, and the other becomes a bully to pay people who never did anything to them back for old transgressions! I have personally known some of these narcissistic asswads!

  1. Thank you for explaining it to me. I now have professional proof that these boys are not responsible for this incident. I will recommend sensitivity counseling and desk duty until these officers can fade away on disability pensions.

      1. Careful on-line shouting is the hallmark of a seriously disturbed person. Or a child who has not yet mastered the Caps Lock key.

      2. P.S. You are clearly in denial. I suggest therapy – immediately before you hurt yourself – or others!

  2. Yeah, they’re all messed up. Who put guns and tasers in these creeps hands?

    Pat McPension, the $215,000 man!

  3. It confirms exactly what the majority of us have been observing and noting: a narcissistic obsession with one’s one power, authority, and personal comfort (“we just killed a man, is today a pool day?”); a complete lack of normal human empathy (“he got what he deserved”); and an obvious streak of sadism (“that’s the fun part of police work”).

  4. You are so far off it’s amazing. I guess that’s due to a study based on random off the wall blog posts and information from the incident coming from biased sources, so what else could anyone expect. I give you credit for trying though. I think if the Kelly incident turns out to be a Pre meditated attack and murder, I could see where your analogy comes from. I think if the facts of the case in the end are analyzed, along with the actual subjects involved, your analysis would be almost opposite of your guess at it this time around.

    1. Pre meditated

      ha ha ha … go back to grde school… they beat a man to death and went home, Kissed the stripper wives good night and laughed about it…

    2. This link is an article from a policeman’s wives blog chronicling their day-to-day existence without their husband’s around to help with the kids. Maybe this absence of a father figure would help to explain the generational ties to police work that I frequently notice occur with policeman and their sons.
      http://www.heavybadge.com/wives.htm

      1. This is the truth! Police wives are left behind by these jackasses so they can be the big braggart heros they always dreamt of. The wife gets saddled with everything while the hubby parties, and lays around the house doing noohing. The cops who are good husbands and parents, are not the norm!

      1. yep. The truth hurts and digs at the sore.

        Thanks for this informative article-Hope that for who ever fits the shoe out there gets some help

  5. I can say I do appreciate the doctor’s words.

    I have found the last couple of days to be almost physically painful since I have had the misfortune of reading some of the posts.

    God have mercy and God hold Kelly and his family close as they weather this storm.

    They are living my worst nightmare and my heart, prayers, and love go out to them.

  6. If this is your analogy of the cops involved, what’s your study say about all the cops in the US? Would be interesting to see if you have done any studies on police before, or worked with them at all before. Gordon Graham would be the one to give you an overall police pysch study. Wonder what he would say about this case.

    1. Please produce a doctor who can give us a rational explanation of your point of view, concerning Kelly’s death. Please help us to understand.

      1. THE DIAGNOSIS IS SIMPLE, COPS WE HAVE TODAY ARE BRAINWASHED IDIOTS FROM THE PUBIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. PUBIC, BEING INTENTIONALLY SARCASTIC! STDS, AND RHOIDS ARE WHAT FUEL THESE PUSSIES WHO VICTIMIZE WEAKER PEOPLE THAN THEM.
        I SAY WE DUMP A BUNCH OF BLEACH INTO THE COP GENEPOOL!

        1. THE ARTICLE GOT CUT OFF AT THE LEGS, BUT IT IS IN THE LA TIMES TODAY..CROOKED LASD CARSON SHERIFF’S STATION AND RICO ALLEGATIONS! BERNICE ABRAMS IS HER NAME, BUT BACA THE SCIENTOLOGIST THINK’S SHE IS A GREAT LEADER! WHAT A WATER HEAD! SLOSH. SLOSH!

      1. Yeah, now we have the “El Monte Six”…

        Interesting, how they have become “gangs of six” against one!

        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/08/25/state/n123812D97.DTL

        A defense lawyer claims a group of about six El Monte police officers beat his client so severely that he was left virtually blind.

        6 El Monte CA cops are accused of using excessive force in an incident that left the man shown above nearly blind when almost every bone in his face was broken. The claim filed by his lawyer also alleges that police held his 3-year-old nephew at bay with a gun or taser when the child tried to stop it.

          1. This is the key to understanding you:

            1. You always take the side of hte police and presume they are acting correctly.

            2. Your definition of “reasonable force” is just no longer being accepted by the communities you serve.

            That is why you can’t understand us, and we can’t understand you. But ultimately, it should be the citizens, not the police, who decide on what a good standard of reasonable force is.

          1. THAT’S DON JACKSON’S WEBSITE. HE WAS THE TORRANCE COP THAT GOT BEATEN UP BY LONG BEACH COPPERS IN THE LATE 80’S. HE NOW DOES STINGS ON POLICE ORGANIZATIONS.

      1. Iz, the only problem with Dave’s stats is he doesn’t all of the newsfeeds. Some major crap goes unreported by Podunk popo stations. Copblock is another great site!

    2. I’ve noticed that you deflect a lot when you feel under attack by always saying in one form or another “well those guys did it too!” Just an observation please continue so we can get to the root of finding out who hurt you in your life?

      1. IN THEIR ACADEMY TRAINING THEY GET SEVERAL HOURS IN VICTIM BLAMING AND THE DEFLECTION ARTS. WELL ROUNDED COPS WE HAVE! LOL

  7. You obviously didn’t understand the assessment above (it’s not your fault, you’re just not terribly bright and not a critical thinker).

    Premeditation has absolutely nothing to do with it. A person (like yourself) who is narcissistic, lacking of empathy, and possibly sadistic doesn’t need to PLAN his cruelty. It can rise up almost instantly, out of opportunity, as it did with Kelly pinned to the ground in pain, calling out for his father.

    It’s amazing how this clinical assessment describes not only the cops who killed Kelly to a ‘T’ but also many of the cop trolls on this site, like RealityIsn’t.

    1. It’s hard to keep up with the dreams of people on here in terms of what they think happened. I said that because so many people said it was pre planned. Your words are far from me. I’m opposite of that. I express my feelings based on the far off beliefs of the anti’s who think they know what happened. I actually think the same as most on here. Biggest difference is I base my thoughts on facts. Lay out actual facts and we would all probably think alike. I mean that top to bottom. Home life, cop life, government life. Surprising I know.

  8. That sums him (reality) up perfectly Anony. The judgmental trait seems to be amuck in many law enforcement agencies. Regular street cops (some) tend to think they’re ‘Perry Mason Jrs. ie. threatening you with what they can do to you per Their law, but mostly they all think they are profiling experts like FBI Criminal Minds types and end up jumping to conclusions about someone they just met.

      1. ANYONE CAN POST HERE ANONYMOUSLY LIKE YOURSELF. YOU ARE PROBABLY SURFING THE WEB ON OUR DIME IN A COP CAR HIDING UNTIL YOUR SHIFT IS OVER. GET SOME NAPTIME WE NEED YOU ALERT FOR YOUR PAID DETAILS.

        1. 🙂 Nah, the IT folks at the PD and the FBI and maybe even the DA’s office though sure are having fun though!

  9. I post as corrupt,, rEALITY iz is just the only name i have done other than that… becaust the troll amuses me.

  10. Please, please, please post the video from the bus station cam…. PLEASE…. we want to be proven wrong,, hell I will post that I sell my next of kin to the devil… please post the video….. Just post the video. POST THE VIDEO.

  11. Sissynellis kid.. I feel bad for you.. daddy is a bad guy. He lied and Kelly died. if yiu were up that night did washing machine come on? I would like to know where the uniform he was wearing went… even though Sellers was not to concerned.

  12. “I would tend to ascribe the same analysis to those of your readers who choose to attack the victim and his family. My suspicion is that these individuals suffer from a severe personality defect in which pleasure in the attempt to induce pain on others is the result of a lack of positive accomplishment and more specifically, the absence of non-auto erotic gratification.”

    Did you sadistic bastards read this? He is talking about YOU!!!

    “The lack of mature observation and demonstrable education in the instances I have observed also indicates the strong possibility that these people may, in fact, be children posing as adults.”

    Like we’ve been saying all along. GED.

  13. Where the heck is ‘reality is” ? we have a Md, PHD that he can argue with,,,, heck the guy can argue with all the apologists posting on here, I live with a LCSW with a major in psychiatric medicine and she has a masters… dude she is all over these killer cops.. and she works with cops every day (some are cool, we have beers) some are control freak dicks and want to exert power… she tells them this….yeah prove me wrong ……… please… uh oh I think the FBI is at the door.. be back soon.

    1. Would be cool to do this same type of analysis on the actual subjects here to determine how different people are online compared to real life. I bet almost complete opposite.

  14. I would like to see a psychological profile on the kind of person that calls in bogus police calls on innocent mentally ill individuals.
    Whats the profile on a washed up, loser rockstar that had a “one hit wonder”? Now ownes a bar so everyone can still kiss his ass.

      1. Oh do share for us interested parties overseas who are not in the loop. Which bar? Which “star”?

  15. Kelly Thomas was a boy who grew up with an illness, when he was an adult, the laws would not provide for his parents to commit him into an institution so he could take medication, would not live on the streets or do harm to himself or to others.
    If 6 police could not subdue him, how would his Mom or Dad even begin to keep him on his meds, or make him live indoors?
    At 37 he was a man and a child..had a simple yet complicated life that most of us do not understand.
    People who have “dislike” or even “hate’ the homeless believe that they get what they deserve. They do not have a clue what it is like to have a loved one live in the streets and eat out of the trash or beg for a few dollars for food, unless of course they have family who are homeless, mentally ill or both.
    Kelly was one of the lost. He was lost in his own illness.
    The solution to homelessness is not death by beating. It is not the duty of police to be judge, jury and executioner to the homeless or anyone else.
    If the police expect us to follow the rules, then they need to understand that they are not above the rules, or laws themselves.
    Kelly was not capable of killing any of the police who were at the transportation center that night. They were not afraid but I am sure that Kelly was. So what was the reason behind the beating of Kelly Thomas? What made these officers decide that this was appropriate action for a “suspect?”
    If anyone has an answer to this, I would love to hear it.

    1. I chose this comment to reply to as my final comment on this blog. I am a kelly and ron thomas supporter, and consider myself a rational, fair, honest and sincerely non-narcissistic person. That being said, this blog has become a hateful, rash, unfair, and unrealistically opinionated attack blog. I have spoken with tony in person, and I respect you, as well as your goals. However, I think this blog has gotten out of control (both sides).
      People who don’t know the thomas family should not make judgmental comments about what the family did or did not do for kelly…I agree with that, but other people, who also don’t know the Thomas family, do them no justice by simply replying with another attack from the opposite (yet equally unfounded) point of view.
      Its hard to put what I’m saying into words, so I will end by saying this, which I truly mean with all due respect and zero sarcasm…Tony (and the other leaders of this blog, you have helped bring the world’s attention to a very important issue, and I admire you for that. Now that you have their attention, are you proud and unquestionably confident with how you’re handling the attention? I know you’re all pissed, but turning things into what this blog has become, will only push the rational people (from both sides of the fence) away, and leave a bunch of irrational people attacking each other for no purpose! I wish you all the best, but please give give serious consideration to one last thing…you had my full attention, and you lost it; if you believe I’m the only one, or if you just don’t care, more power to you. However, we all have our own opinions, and to have a logical, fair debate is one thing, but to downright villaify the other side and become so hateful just isn’t what most of us are looking for. We want justice for what we believe was a murder, but if someone else (who also hasn’t seen or heard everything that happened that day) disagrees with me, so be it…it doesn’t make them an idiot or a moron or downright evil!
      You would get much further with your fight, if more comments (if not most) looked more like this one I replied to!

  16. This is HILARIOUS. Seriously, we shake and rattle you so bad that you consulted a PH.D? AWESOME. I knew you were an easy target but didn’t realize to what extent.
    I wonder if I should contact an “expert” and ask him to analyze the people posting on bahalf of the FFFF.
    “Okay Dr. these people want to convict 6 police officers of murder when they really have no clue as to what they are talking about. They THINK they do even though they have seen NO PROOF. They are all so “delusional” as to what they think they will not even try to wait for proof. Also Dr. they keep posting things of a sexual nature in such a negative way, talking about what they hope would happen to the officers if they were to go to prison. Hmmmm wonder what that means Dr.? Also they wish cruel and unusual punishment on these officers and are very blatent with the descriptions. What kind of person thinks of those kinds of things Dr.? Could that be someone who was negleted or abused as a child. Some one who as an adult doesn’t get the attention or respect they think they deserve? Some of these things are so far out there Dr. that I would hope that their children and pets are safe. I know they need help Dr. and I hope when they find out what really happened they will see the error in their ways but even if they don’t, it’s okay, we have saved all the threats and disgusting wishes of these people and, well, maybe someone out there will get them the professional help they need.

    1. Great idea. I think it might be called “hate”, “racism”, or failure to ever believe the truth no matter what type of education you receive.

    2. Could that be someone who was negleted or abused as a child. Some one who as an adult doesn’t get the attention or respect they think they deserve?

      Obviously got to YOU, didn’t it ‘boy-lover’?

      heheheheh

  17. I (heart) cops, it’s interesting that you refer to people on this blog as “easy targets.” Is that how your buddies viewed Kelly Thomas that night, as an easy target?? It appears so.

    By the way, only a tiny fraction of the posters here have referred to cruel/unusual/degrading punishment for the killers. The rational people here, like Stud Lee, Corrupt, and others seem pretty level-headed to me and are simply looking for justice. (And that small number is almost exactly the same as the number of those — like you — who exhibit patterns of anti-social, narcissistic, and sadistic behavior and total lack of regard or empathy for others.)

    I would wish for professional help for you, but I’m afraid there’s no effective cure for sociopaths or psychopaths. Sorry.

    1. hahaha, silly cops, still thinking their authority extends beyond the borders of Fullerton..

    2. #507 by corrupt on August 26, 2011

      When Sissynelli shows up in the hands of CDCR I will try to get them to refer to him a ‘Sissynelli” yeah I know some CO’s with rank. Have a buddy drop a dime on him about being a dirty cop while he is in protective custody, guys in protective custody can still have a bad life… especially dirty cops. (they protect dirty cops in prison, all that shiving stuff looks bad). The bangers could get to him but not likely… when he is convicted of course… when.

      Sounds kind of like a threat to me ????

      1. More like a dream. He never leaves his house and can only dream of having some type of influence on anyone involved in this case.

        1. I would think he would have high tailed it out of the area. Then again, he’s probably armed, so no need.

      2. I HEART COPS, YOU’RE A NAIVE OINKLET, THERE IS NO THREAT BY CORRUPT. DO YOU HAVE ISSUES DECIPHERING THE WRITTEN WORD?

      3. I ♥ COPS you’re kinda stretching with this threat thing. Saying that gang bangers might get to him but probably not is a pathetic “threat.” Assuming that we can even stretch logic and reason far enough to call that a “threat” without destroying the space-time continuum in the first place.

        1. Stud, with the moronic comments made by I love as to how cops turn everything said into some sort of criminal act. One of the 6 is coaching it.

    3. Another one by Corrupt….
      by corrupt on August 27, 2011

      That’s how devious WHO is Wrong Guy???
      from “I BLOW COPS”

      And FYI, THE FBI will be able to figure out who is making threats and who’s house to go to without queston. They will be able to figure out WHO you are WRONG GUY after posting certain things you have posted and also who some others are who have posted threatening remarks towards the officers and mainly Officer Cicinelli. So keep

      The FBI showed up today.. we had a beer and laughed about pimply faces kids using the internet to troll for cop lovers… they said they were on to you for trying to entice the good cops into sex acts with a very ugly little pizza face… they looked at all my military memorabilia, check out my Harleys, we remenesced about all the good we have done in the world and that trolls should be shot in the head…. and hung on a light post like the effagy of the FPD that was at the protest… they said a pimply faced guy who kept pointing his butt at them wanted the effagy guys arrested… but it is legal… sorry “I BLOW COPS”

      Wow, on this one we have conspiring with the FBI to shoot people in the head and hang them from a light post AND negative sexual content.

      Oh my, Anonymous, you might want to be careful who you are defending in your statements.

      1. Yep the FBI is setting up a
        “Troll Task Force” as I type…. “troll boy troll boy, watcha gonna do, watcha gonna do when they come for you” ….. haha ha ahahahahaha

          1. Sorry, this site is too good to miss out on….

            I thought that! At first I thought some Fullerton authorities but now I think it’s the above. So how much fun are you all having? I’m sure a lot. I laugh as I read your responses, because I know as you answer back, you’re hacking into our computers and will embarrass us all later. 🙂 When all of this is done, I’m going to be curious to know why you just didn’t check everybody’s ISP’s anonymously and see that one person has 200 and embarrass them later. Why the need to hold court, as you are beautifully doing, to argue with everyone? Personally, this isn’t helping in the slightest.

            Beautiful work though. I have an opinion about what you’re discovering as you type away and you must be laughing. Right? 😉

      2. “conspiring with the FBI to shoot people in the head and hang them from a light post”

        404: Error, conspiracy not found. I’m fairly certain that stating an opinion about what should happen is not a threat nor is it conspiracy. The fact that they are talking about what SHOULD happen is strong indication that they themselves aren’t planning or expecting to be the ones to initiate and/or perform such action.

        “negative sexual content.”

        Hmmm….who’s to say it’s not positive sexual content?

        FYI: I’m fairly certain this is a purely fictional event. From your replies, I’m not sure you caught that.

    4. You are so full of shit Annon. You all want justice but you want justice your way only. You don’t want fair justice, you don’t want impartial justice, you want “Tony” justice or “Anon” justice or “MerJoe” justice.

      That’s why Fullerton has had enough of you all. Your swayed message is old news.

      1. You are so full of shit Annon. You all want justice but you want justice your way only. You don’t want fair justice, you don’t want impartial justice, you want “Tony” justice or “Anon” justice or “MerJoe” justice.

        At least we aren’t asking for the kind of Justice for the FPD 6 they inflected on Kelly. Was that fair impartial justice?

        How about giving that some thought?

        Oh, right, a narcissist can only think of himself, Pimple Head. Now get your hand out of your pants and back on the keyboard, punk.

        1. No one knows yet because no one has all the facts. Why can’t you see that? Expand your mind. Look at the whole picture. Not just what you want to see or the end result. Hands in pants are ok. It’s my unit.

          1. Why does no one have all the facts? 2 months isn’t enough time to gather all the facts? When will it be determined that someone has “all the facts”? That seems like a perpetually moving target.

            “Hands in pants are ok. It’s my unit.”

            OK that’s funny 🙂

    5. I would wish for professional help for you, but I’m afraid there’s no effective cure for sociopaths or psychopaths. Sorry.

      BINGO!

      1. Could be true. The other problem is the most you will get for cops in the US or California is them attending some class as a post requirement. That won’t help the ones with issues. Reality.

    1. I’ve seen some outlandish possibilities posted by the resident sadistic trolls:

      1) Kelly beat himself to death at the bottom of the dogpile.

      2) Kelly got beat to a pulp during a fight with another homeless person earlier that evening and was already almost dead before the cops ever encountered him.

      3) His parents didn’t love him, so he died.

      4) His dad wants money, so he died.

      5) He was on his way to recovery but his dad had him murdered by the doctor by ordering the life support plug pulled.

      ^ These are all actual theories posted on this blog or the OCR. Pathetic.

  18. Don’t forget me Anonymous, I’m level-headed too. I went to the Kelly Thomas rally all day in the heat, had some cocktails, then went to the vigil and now I’m on my 10th cocktail. Not to worry; I don’t do that 50/50 Vodka-Redbull drink that these narcissistic, roid-injecting trolls chiming in here. My point is, I’m pretty sane after 10 drinks.

    1. Wrong Guy, maybe Anonymous forgot about you but I didn’t. Is this level headed in your book???

      Wrong Guy on August 27, 2011

      I ♥ COPS :
      That’s how devious WHO is Wrong Guy???
      And FYI, THE FBI will be able to figure out who is making threats and who’s house to go to without queston. They will be able to figure out WHO you are WRONG GUY after posting certain things you have posted and also who some others are who have posted threatening remarks towards the officers and mainly Officer Cicinelli. So keep it up. Great Job!!!

      I loved what I said about your ‘Sissynelli’ ape friend and I will say it again in caps: YOU WOULDN’T EVEN NEED YOUR BUDDY TO DROP A DIME ON THAT OVER-STUFFED, VISUALLY CHALLENGED PILE OF SH…..TRASH. HE WILL STAND OUT LIKE A WART AND BE GANG-BANGED AND FINISHED OFF (CUM SHOT IN HIS GOOD EYE) BY A BRUTUS WHEREVER HE IS HOUSED. Hah! It’s even better in caps.

      This is sick and I have not seen one comment from any police supporters in this fashion what so ever. So I think you need to call your PH.D guy back and let him in on what’s really up. You guys are sick and pathetic.

      1. They are blind to how narcissistic and sadistic they all are. If they would open their eyes one time to the facts, they would see that their dream of what will happen is this case couldn’t be farther from the truth.

        1. If they would open their eyes one time to the facts, they would see that their dream of what will happen is this case couldn’t be farther from the truth.

          Oh! Non-Reality IS here.

      2. This is sick and I have not seen one comment from any police supporters in this fashion what so ever.

        Stop giving yourself airs. You are not COP supporters, you are sadistic BRUTALITY supporters.

        None of us have beaten anyone to death, like your ‘heroes’ did, pimple puss.

        1. True. That’s why cops are given that authority to use force. You aren’t. If they violated the amount of force, so be it. If not, so be it. Doesn’t matter what anyone says even you, it’s up to the facts. 🙂

  19. Reinhold Ott..One is a used salesman from Williamsburg MD and the other is a dead guy that died in 2010..Who is your guy?

  20. The comments here surprise me a bit. I think the assessment from the psycologist was pretty good. Narcissism is what I believe is the root problem. A person who’s world revolves around hisself. Because of what ills or percieved ills have happened to him he chooses to make others pay to give him the satisfaction he believes he deserves from life.In a way this type of person has given up on life and chooses to carry a chip on his shoulder and take out his inner grudges against life on others.
    If you take a look at the type of cars these officers drive almost all of them have dark tinted windows and are monster trucks to go along with their overinflated egos.You can see them all lined up on the parking lot diagnol to the police station.

    1. I see your whole statement being a perfect description of all the haters on this blog. Blind to the truth, believing in only something that will benefit themselves, and out to cause as much pain as possible to any city that doesn’t do what they say and desire. Tony is the leader of this psych cult, and there are a few followers as well.

      1. I see your whole statement being a perfect description of all the haters on this blog. Blind to the truth, believing in only something that will benefit themselves, and out to cause as much pain as possible to any city that doesn’t do what they say and desire. Tony is the leader of this psych cult, and there are a few followers as well.

        Go on, just throw ‘stuff’ at the wall and see if it sticks? Jerk, none of us would benefit one bit if the guilty are prosecuted and sentenced. But, Justice would benefit. America would benefit, YOU would not however. And, that’s what bugs you so much.

        1. I could care less. Justice would be great. Based on the facts, I don’t see charges coming. They could though. We will see. I support charges if the DA sees it. Nothing bugs me.

      2. No cult Jay. No cult. It just doesn’t look good for you guys when you don’t speak. Why the silence is my question?

        1. It’s complex. Two phases. Criminal and internal investigations. Criminal no talk is normal. Anytime there is an on duty death, the officers are immediately provided lawyers. Just as in any criminal case with anyone, lawyers advise don’t talk to anyone. Same with cops. It’s for their protection. Will they talk eventually? Maybe. Just depends on if charges are filed and each case.

          Internal investigation they read their Miranda rights and the officer invokes his rights and doesn’t talk. They then order him to talk for the internal part. That can’t be used for the criminal portion if there is one.

          Look up peace officers bill of rights. It’s basically just a right everyone has not to speak.

    2. I will bet you any amount of money if you go to any police station parking lot there will be no more than 25% of big trucks like you are describing. Nice image to portray, but so very wrong.

          1. I don’t know about LEOs being ticketed for traffic violations; I do know I have notified my local agencies (one in the city where I work and one in the city where I live) when I have seen flagrant traffic violations by LEOs. I usually suggest to the specific agency’s staff that their LEOs can benefit from a reminder that they are also to observe (in this case) traffic laws.

        1. Corrupt, you are correct. Went to a car show at LAPD academy yesterday. You would not believe all of the blacked out windows on cops personal vehicles!

  21. Great points budget therapist…Especially ‘the satisfaction he believes he deserves from life. Yes, that grandiose feeling of entitlement.

    1. Becareful at the protests. Yesterday there was a nimrod captain out there soliciting information from us. He may be surreptitiously be recording us. Don’t talk to him if you don’t have to!

  22. Thank you, Breathing Fire.

    I’ve said this before, and I figure I will continue to say it until Kelly’s case is closed and his situation is understood by all, on both sides.

    And the fact that there are two sides is discouraging.

    That poor young man was murdered in cold blood, and his murderers are hiding within the system. This is a true-blue American nightmare, and it will probably get worse before it gets better.

    Kelly’s case will take years to resolve. Kelly Thomas will be winding his way through the court system for years. I hate to say it, but it’s true.

    Systemic corruption at the local level is the 400 pound gorilla in the parlor that we’ve been ignoring for years, coast to coast.

    Well, thanks to Kelly, we’ve seen the gorilla.

    We’ve seen the gorilla, and he’s us.

    It’s just the way of it, and the history of our judicial system demonstrates this, time and time again.

    So what to do? What to do now?

    The freewheeling Saturday protests are beautiful, but they can’t last forever. Sooner or later balloon animal clowns and snowcone vendors will start showing up, and that will be that.

    I would suggest a long-term weekly (or monthly, as best as possible) Kelly Thomas Memorial get together of some sort; a concert or poetry reading or something similar to keep Kelly’s name in light as the process winds its way through the corrupt Fullerton system.

    I’ve visited Strawberry Fields in Central Park a number of times. It’s a quiet, peaceful tribute to John Lennon; not unlike a tribute to Kelly Thomas that we could fund somewhere in Fullerton. I would get behind that in a heartbeat.

    What I’m saying here is that Justice for Kelly Thomas is an uphill fight, and it will take a long time.

    We’re dealing with Mordor here, if you get my drift. The bad guys are really bad.

    Keep the faith, keep your wings, and watch your butts. Stay true to Truth, you know?

    Keep Kelly alive in your heart. He’s safe there.

    They can’t get him there.

  23. This is all amazing. It’s sad and amazing at the same time.

    It’s amazing that one blog could have SO MUCH POWER. That’s awesome! Some don’t see the power in a blog, but it obviously is an awesome tool for change. There is no need, in my humble little opinion, for blogging legislation from this. If this blog didn’t check facts before publishing all this, then you can get those involved with a libel suit. Supreme Court cases have also dictated this. What the hell else would you need to legislate? Seriously. Would our first amendment rights to criticize our government be legislated away because of this? We as citizens are legislated up the ass already and I feel that you might as well rip up the constitution if there is more stupid legislation to lessen our freedoms. I have really not been too politically motivated lately, but if this were to be proposed legislation, I would be among those fighting it. We have the first amendment for a reason and I will not be silenced by stupid “blogging legislation.” It’s unnecessary.

    It’s also amazing that the pro-police commentors give this blog so much credence. I’m also trying to figure out who Reality Is REALLY is. And where did Allen go? And outraged? At first I thought Reality Is was one of the 6 but now I’m not so sure. It’s really quite a clever guise. Probably cop, maybe instigator higher up, maybe it’s one of 10 people who comment at different times of the day who aren’t cops. It’s really quite clever. What I wonder though is why you guys don’t take to a different channel to gain support. Why here? It’s interesting that you are giving this blog so much power when you allege it’s all lies, pure lies. I mean, I can totally see why you WOULD come here. You want to gain public trust again and let the world know that you’re not evil bastards and that you just did your jobs that evening. I’m amazed though that you would choose to do that HERE, on a blog that will probably not believe you NO MATTER WHAT.

    It’s also sad that the pro-police posters are claiming innocence but acting very superior here. Yes, you have families that you want to go home to every night and I’ve learned from friends in LE that the academy teaches safety for you first, the public second, and the suspect third. I agree with that. Hell, if someone is holding a gun to my head and the cops are called, I don’t want you to reason with him but kick the living crap out of him. I also agree with some common sense though-that if you are accused of doing something heinous (and I am well aware that these are only accusations), such as this situation, that you not say things such as you have in these posts, where you crack jokes about taking vacation when out on leave, saying get used to it we’re in charge and things will go out when we say they do-it just doesn’t make you all look good. You guys have a LOT of explaining to do. A LOT. And this doesn’t help. I know very well that there are good people in LE. You probably are also. All I ask is that you write with empathy. Yes, you can defend yourselves, but please think about these posts.

    It’s also sad that society doesn’t want to learn about mental illness, judging from these posts. I wish that the police had required training in that area. (Am I wrong? Do you all have to go through it?) Would it have helped? Maybe yes, maybe no. And what the hell can you do if your adult child refuses help time and time again?

    This is all incredible. Every post, every comment reads like a chapter in a book. Reality is often stranger than fiction, and I hope to hell that none of this is fiction. I hope to hell that every single thing is documented here so that when the inevitable civil suit comes, FFFF can walk away proud. I think they will.

    I don’t think I’ve said anything on here that can be construed as a threat. Everything here is either fact or my opinion. Thought I’d throw that in as a disclaimer. 😉

    I’m going to walk away from this for awhile and will come back in a few weeks to read more and learn more and comment more. I hear that we will have a decision by then. I pray that I can read this in my own home and not from five cities away.

    Until then…….

    1. Kim,

      Non-Reality IS one guy, multiple personas, but only one pair of hands at the keyboard.

      Have a safe trip, have fun, be well.

    2. You aren’t alone. Many good citizens have stopped by here with the intent to help but quickly learned it was a scam and never came back.

      1. Even though I’m doing 20 things at once right now, I had to come back and comment since I’m getting emailed when comments come in. I’ll be back. Just too much to do these next few weeks.

        This mindfucking game that you’re playing is very, very interesting. I hope that when you do come out of the closet (no pun intended 😉 ) that you tell us why this itty bitty blog in an unknown city before this garnered your time and attention. I would think you should just let it go and let the crazies talk and when you present the facts, they’ll be so convincing that you won’t need to do this mindfucking game. But now I’m curious as to why you’re doing it. I guess I’ll wait and see. It’s almost as if you’re trying to entrap. But, like I said before, I guess we will all have to wait and see.
        And now, back to work and seeing the emails come in………….

        1. Yes. Wait and see. I’m here because it involves me and because debating with people that have beliefs opposite of mine is intriguing.

          1. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh…….. I think I’ve figured out who you are. I’ve narrowed it down to two people, maybe three. Interesting……….. Very, very interesting. The plot continues to twist and turn and I will be interested to know your true identity.

          2. I was thinking about who you were as I was interviewing someone for an article today. I think I know who you are, so please contact me, because this is going to be interesting to tell to the public. Hell, I’ll let you choose any of the five sites I freelance for to put your article up. I’m going to do some other research to speak with you. I think we know the same people. Hope to talk to you soon. 🙂

          3. Hey Admin-would you mind deleting my comment with my junk email address? No longer needed. I got my info. 🙂

            I love the mindfucking going on here! Did you ever think you’d have so much fun, both of you?

            DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.

          1. Yes it is and it’s fun to read! And go ahead and say it. C’mon…. 😉 Government intrusion at its finest, in my opinion. Where did the blogging legislation folks go too? I really hope you can answer for me (and maybe others) when done why the necessity. You’re feeding into Libertarian paranoia. 🙂

            So how much longer will you be here? Or wait, will I know when you show up at my door? 🙂 It’s not fun without you here! LOL. I actually get work done during the day when it’s drama free. 😉

  24. Very Nice SDLocal. I think that should be the closing statement of the evening, so I will now shut up. Good Night All.

  25. SD Local, thanks. I keep thinking who will be next? There are always three sides to every story, yours, mine and the truth.
    At the very least, all that most of us want is the truth.
    And I do get your “drift”

  26. Thank the good doctor for his selflessness with his time, the Fullerton Shadow.

    His tentative analysis seems spot on!

    Read it and weep, Bad Boyz. The good doctor nailed your sorry narcissistic butts first time.

    Bravo, The Fullerton Shadow, and Bravo Dr. Reinhold Ott!

    1. I just want to see him testify on how he determined this from a blog with a bunch of anonymous posts. Will be interesting on cross.

  27. I posted about this earlier, but I think the REAL reason why the LAPD didn’t want Jay Cicinelli back is because someone realized that he had deep psychological problems and that he was a walking time bomb.

    After the shooting, he was put on permanent disability. But I think someone also must have recognized that he was very mentally disturbed. The LAPD didn’t want him back on duty because not only was he no longer physically qualified to be an officer…but they also realized that he was mentally unstable. After the Rodney King incident and the Rampart scandal, the LAPD didn’t want any more liabilities. And they realized Jay Cicinelli could snap at any moment.

    And he finally did. He snapped and viciously beat someone to death while on duty. The victim this time was Kelly Thomas. But it could have been any of us. He would attack someone with very little or no provocation.

    But here’s my question…was Jay Cicinelli always psychotic? Or at some point was he a normal person? Did the shooting back in the late 1990’s (in which he lost his eye) cause him to spiral downhill? Or was he already showing signs of narcissism and violence even before then? I REALLY wonder if anyone knows anything about his brief time in the LAPD before the shooting? Had there been any complaints about him before then? And what about when he first started working in Fullerton…I wonder if anyone has ever come across other complaints about him in years past?

    What do we really know about Jay Cicinelli? Has he always been a rogue cop…or did the shooting cause something in his mind to snap?

    1. Cicinelli, drop kicked a 14 year old girl that questioned him on the corner of Harbor and Chapman.

      He arrested a Hispanic man for drunk’n public all because the man was humming a song Cicinelli didn’t like while walking in downtown.

      He told a Black man to step outside of his house because his music was too loud and then arrested the man for drunk in public.

      Against P.O.S.T. policy-rules, McPension hired him in Fullerton as a favor for a friend. Thanks Pat, NOT!

  28. There is a documentary called the “Stanford prison experiment” I remember it fromm 20/20 or some other news magazine years ago, it can be found on you tube. Its very interesting, well worth the 29min. to view

  29. If it is found that the slide bar had involvement in making a phony burglary report AT the instruction of ‘fpd6’ would that constitute pre-meditation or a whole different type of cival rights charges?

      1. That would be fun go watch. Especially after it’s over when the source of the call comes out and it had nothing go do with the bar. 🙂 I’ll be inside watching you.

    1. Yeah, reality and when you come out of the slide up your azz bar, we’ll have a CHP officer out there waiting to nail you clowns for 23152VC.

  30. The fpd6 supporters sure did close ranks quickly when it was implied that the slidebar may have had some involvement

    1. It would show premeditation if there was a compiracy betwixt the cops and the bar. Wonder if there are some sentence enhancements for these murderers.

  31. Chris: Jus happen to know more than you bout Officer C. As much as you may wish he had something in his history to support your ramblings, to which you are entitled, you are very wrong.
    Officer C. is very modist and not one known to be boastful about his accomplishments. But they are many. Too many to name, and he wouldn’t want them known anyway. But you would be surprised. Very surprised. You might want to move on from this line of talk because if things do come out about him, he will look better than you.

  32. Nomad:

    Why would the Slide Bar be involved other than calling in a call of a suspicious person breaking into vehicles?

  33. Cicinella was shot ten to fifteen years ago. It Took him that long to snap? jus sayin’ that’s a long time.

  34. If the Slide Bar called in a phony report, what does that have to do with the 6 officers? That would be a separate issue, wouldn’t it?

  35. It has been conjectured that the slidebar is a cop hangout and that the report of a breakin came from the owner or one of the mngr of the slidebar to a private non emergency # given to them by one of the fpd6

  36. Wondering :
    Cicinella was shot ten to fifteen years ago. It Took him that long to snap? jus sayin’ that’s a long time.

    I don’t think him snapping was the direct result of that one incident. But I think him getting shot caused him to spiral downhill. And he kept getting worse and more unhinged as time went by. I suspect that someone in the LAPD recognized that he was mentally unstable and that was another reason why they didn’t want him back.

    But that’s what I’m wondering…if anyone knows of any complaints against him while he was in the LAPD, or when he started working in Fullerton. That’s what I’m curious about. Was he always crazy…or did a series of events (starting with the shooting) cause him to go crazy?

    “Officer C” is anything but modest. He was bragging about beating up Kelly Thomas. He’s a psychopath.

  37. Chris: Surely you jest. Where are you getiing your 4-1-1? There is no mention of anyone of the 6 doing anything out of the routine … such as snapping! What are you talking about? Do you even know? Are you listening to someone else and then taking it as Gospel? There would have been some report of some kind on Officer C. if he had had some psych issues and there are none. I checked. I suggest you do the same and stop taking other peoples word for truth.

    It Makes You Look Stupid…

    1. Chris is like the rest of em. He just makes stuff up to get a rise out of people. Officer C was with LAPD for what, 6 months? Keep spewing BS Chris. It will all catch up with you eventually.

    2. “There would have been some report of some kind on Officer C.  if he had had some psych issues and there are none.  I checked.”

      Aaand you haven’t noticed FPD has cover-up  issues?   Riiiight.

    1. The insider “good cop” that told KFI’s John and Ken that the “FPD 6” were allowed and encouraged (by their superiors) to view the city’s video, then ‘rewrite their reports,’ was the source that also said Cyclops was heard BRAGGING about beating the shit out of Kelly the next day in the police locker room.

      It was 2 weeks later, (due to media pressure and questions about what he said) that the DA finally came clean and admitted it!

      Since the ‘insider’s’ video viewing information has been proven to be highly accurate, there can be no doubt in my mind that he is just as accurate about Cyclop’s bragging in the locker room.

  38. Wondering :
    Cicinella was shot ten to fifteen years ago. It Took him that long to snap? jus sayin’ that’s a long time.

    How do you know he hasn’t slaughtered, killed or maimed another defenseless homeless person late at night somewhere with no witnesses?

  39. Known’ More :
    Chris: Surely you jest. Where are you getiing your 4-1-1? There is no mention of anyone of the 6 doing anything out of the routine … such as snapping! What are you talking about? Do you even know? Are you listening to someone else and then taking it as Gospel? There would have been some report of some kind on Officer C. if he had had some psych issues and there are none. I checked. I suggest you do the same and stop taking other peoples word for truth.
    It Makes You Look Stupid…

    Most negative complaints/reports on officers that go to FPD get the ‘big finger’ from the higher officers that are supposed to be handling the complaints and thrown away. That’s why there are no reports about your buttbuddy ‘Sissy’s behavior, you tainted pig!

  40. By the way, I am sure by now the FBI has requested complaints from citizens from FPD and I think it’s safe to say, they stalled on that too and could not produce anything. FPD looks like an unorganized gang in official police uniforms to the DOJ, I’m sure. Lame-ass policies, as stated by Captain Cook, er I mean Hampton, the interim chief, such as we always allow our officers to view video or audio to help fully recount what happened, bla, bla, bla. BS! They make up there policies as they go. They also try to make up their own laws in the field. How’s that for the truth you FPD pig trolls?

    1. Wrong, Gennaco gave me his special email address so I can post these idiot cop supporters blog to him. He didn’t want LASD stuff getting mixed up with this Fullerton crap!

  41. “My suspicion is that these individuals suffer from a severe personality defect in which pleasure in the attempt to induce pain on others is the result of a lack of positive accomplishment and more specifically, the absence of non-auto erotic gratification. The lack of mature observation and demonstrable education in the instances I have observed also indicates the strong possibility that these people may, in fact, be children posing as adults.”

    For the win!

  42. Now that I have confirmation from a reliable source that the FPD, including the 6 vacationers are regularly viewing this blog, I just wanted to say HELLO to Cincinelli, Hampton, Ramos, Blatney, the two others, Goodpitch(Goodrich), Hamilton and Mohagen (be nice to your ex, she is the mother of your kids). Are your consciences eating away at your brains yet? Do ya kind of feel like tazing and beating all of us Kelly Thomas supporters to death yet? I’ll bet you do. GOOD LUCK (not) to your defense!!!

  43. Tony

    You are doing a dis-service to the community. The majority of your information lacks foundation and is unproven. It is formed by your thoughts and opinions, as well as misguided anonymous blogs.

    With such a large spanning audience, you have a duty to provide accuracy, and temperance in the information you provide.

    Your latest post with this “internet doctor” is laughable at best. You are leading sheep that will follow blindly without due regard to facts, based on truth and foundation.

    I can only hope that some day you realize the damage you are doing to the community with this blog. Enjoy the publicity and the gravy train while it lasts.

    And before you go on your rants and personal attacks. Yes I live in Fullerton, 43 years. No I am not a cop, and yes I am an objectively reasonable person who does not need a lackluster, self proclaimed leader like you to tell me how to think or judge.

    We are not buying what you are doing sir.

    Thank you for your time.

    1. You are welcome for my time.

      #1 I didn’t publish this post.

      #2 I don’t pretend to be a leader and have never proclaimed anything of the kind.

      #3 This blog is a forum for the public – whomever may wish to participate.

      #4 If you don’t like the way this blog operates don’t bother coming here. Get your “news” from Lou Ponsi and Jim Radcliffe. I suspect that’s the sort of thing you want to read about Fullerton.

      #5 BTW, what is your opinion on 6 cops bludgeoning a skinny, unarmed homeless man to death? Did it make you feel anything? Remorse? Safety behind your locked and barred front door? Just curious.

      1. Admin, question for you. Is this blog solely dedicated to talking about Kelly, or is it not appropriate to discuss the widespread corruption in LE across this country? Merino thinks it is just supposed to be about Kelly, some of us, do not concur with the gnomes contentions.

    2. Gravy train? Oh yeah, we’re on a gravy train.

      No wait, come to think about it its the killer cops on PAID leave who are on the gravy train.

      Now go next door to Doc HeeHaw’s house. It’s martooni hour.

    3. It’s all clear to the citizens. It’s gospel to the activists. Clear separation in the desires of each group.

    4. Spoken eloquently, Legal!
      As I said above, I started off being a devoted fan of this blog, but it has gone in such a direction that I just can’t back it anymore!
      Wrong Guy…I’ve probably stood right next to you at one of the protests as we both chanted in tune with the rest of Kelly’s supporters. I don’t even disagree with most of what you’re saying. However, the way that you, and several other people, are speaking your words is doing damage to the positive role this blog once played; as well as destroying the ongoing and future role it could have played in actually making some change in this country.
      I’m not here to personally attack you, nor anybody else here, but seriously, dude….come on and think about what you’re saying and how horrible it sounds!
      What Legal said was not offensive, and he voiced a fair opinion in a logical manner which in no way deserved anything worse than maybe “I politely disagree with you, sir, but I respect your opinion”. Instead, he got “Sure thing Legal. Your post wreaks with Defeated FPD overtones. Keep em coming sore looser!!!”
      Legal has lived in Fullerton for 43 years, which means that he’s old enough to deserve some respect as long as he’s giving it in return.
      For all you know, Legal could be your grandfather or your dentist, or a college professor you highly admired.
      I don’t know how old you are, but Legal is probably your elder, and doesn’t deserve what he got from you!
      I’m not out to attack you, Wrong Guy, or teach you how to respect your elders. I’m just trying to plead to the people on this blog to understand what I’m saying here…
      I’m not against you, nor are a lot of the people who make comments you disagree with! I’m on your side, overall, but even the people that aren’t on your side (the one’s that are making decent arguments) deserve a little respect.
      I’m sure you’ll have something to say to me too, but it’s just not right. We’re supposed to be the good guys here, but when somebody makes a comment like Legal’s comment, and gets responses like that, you are only helping prove my point (his, as well). The sad thing is that we don’t even want to be right….we don’t want to win the battle over whether your comments are too harsh or not.
      I, at least, just want to see some positive come from the attention this blog and this issue has finally received worldwide.
      Unfortunately, in my opinion, each time a comment like Wrong Guy’s is made, the chance of that change ever coming from this effort, becomes much closer to impossible!
      Instead of just disagreeing with me or thinking I’m pro FPD, stop and think about what I’ve said, and if you really care about Kelly and what this blog is supposed to be about, you’ll reconsider how you react to things.
      You may disagree with me, and for all I know you may be right, but I’m just saying there are other ways to voice that disagreement. Heck, I think I could put up a pretty good argument against my point, and in favor of yours, but in a respectful manner that doesn’t disgrace this blog, this city, or myself!

      I think it’s great that the comments and replies on this blog are left unedited and un-moderated; however, Tony, you should be praising and encouraging comments like this one…at least defending my opinion on the matter.
      Like I said in comment #51, due to the manner in which this blog is handling this issue, you have lost my support….and the truly sad thing is that I want no more than to support this movement and stand right by your side! I hope I’m wrong, but my guess is this comment will either go ignored, or will have some sort of negative responses attached to it, when instead the people of this blog should be attempting to regain my support.
      To close, Tony, I’m pleading with you to reconsider what you’re doing and how you’re going about it. We’re all pissed, but people are being pushed away, and I, at least, absolutely did not want to be. I’m on your side, just not on the side of the distasteful, hatred that is being spewed, seemingly without discouragement from this blogs leaders. If I’m wrong, and you have discouraged that type of stuff, I humbly apologize!

      Thank you for your time, and I just want to clearly state that everything I’ve said here has no disrespect intended or implied to Tony, Wrong Guy or any other person on this blog. I just humbly disagree with some of the things you have said (or how they’ve been said).

          1. YO, REALITY, I AM NOT ANTI- COP AT ALL. I HATE BAD COPS WHO GIVE THE PROFESSION A BAD NAME. SO, IF YOU’RE ONE OF THE BAD LET US KNOW.

      1. I couldn’t agree more #222. We can all agree or disagree respectfully. I also love this city and I have lived here for over 26 years. This blog started out as a great way to pass and find information, but unfortunately it has turned quite ugly and hateful. If any of Fullerton’s residents really want to make change and encourage dialogue, being respectful is the best way to start. I have a teen age daughter who was quite interested in the Kelly Thomas story and wouldn’t want her on this blog with the hateful language and mean spirited comments that are happening all too frequently.

  44. Legal :
    Tony
    You are doing a dis-service to the community. The majority of your information lacks foundation and is unproven. It is formed by your thoughts and opinions, as well as misguided anonymous blogs.
    With such a large spanning audience, you have a duty to provide accuracy, and temperance in the information you provide.
    Your latest post with this “internet doctor” is laughable at best. You are leading sheep that will follow blindly without due regard to facts, based on truth and foundation.
    I can only hope that some day you realize the damage you are doing to the community with this blog. Enjoy the publicity and the gravy train while it lasts.
    And before you go on your rants and personal attacks. Yes I live in Fullerton, 43 years. No I am not a cop, and yes I am an objectively reasonable person who does not need a lackluster, self proclaimed leader like you to tell me how to think or judge.
    We are not buying what you are doing sir.
    Thank you for your time.

    Sure thing Legal. Your post wreaks with Defeated FPD overtones. Keep em coming sore looser!!!

    1. You are absolutely right BP Geek. My comment/response to what Legal had to say to Tony was ‘out of line’ as I reviewed both posts again and I sincerely apologize for that. I am sorry Legal. Although I still do not agree with your post, it was wrong on my part to respond like that. BP, your message was well-humbling to me and I appreciate you spending the time it took to send that message to me. You are definitely a man of reason; I believe I am too, sometimes.

    2. Damage in the community? No, that would be the Three Blind Mice and their band of dangerous pyscho rogue cops.

    3. THE INFORMATION WE HAVE IS FROM WITNESSES AND WHAT WAS ON VIDEOS. HOW DO YOU DISPUTE THAT AIRHEAD?

  45. By the way Mohagen (or other FPDs), your ex says I’m a bigger and better man than you will ever be. Not trying to toot my horn but that’s what she told me.

  46. Why you all continue to feed these imbecillic trolls is far beyond me. I want these cops to hang, but you all seriously need lives beyond the internet/this forum. Still responding to these cop children and wives etc. who don’t even really believe what they’re saying, and are just trying to rile. I’m losing respect for those who respond to these morons. C’mon.

    1. HRM, you’re right, and I’m one of the ones who say “dont feed the trolls” yet I wind up up giving in to their stupid remarks and do just that-sometimes, I cant stop myself-Im human -Going forward, I will try to control myself

      1. Me to merijoe. What makes it difficult is they’re constantly here and offensive like bad breath after eating balogny, but I’ll renew my efforts at self-control.

        atb

    2. Cuz its fun to bag on these asstwits! They are so dumb! Besides that it’s great mental exercise to come back with snarky quips and such!

  47. what he’s saying all rings true with me. these cops are/were messed up. it in no way absolves them of 100% responsibility. but showed that they’re wrong beyond just what they did that night. they’re intrinsically flawed, and in no way fit to serve as police.

    one thing he could have added, is how they seek a job as a policeman in order to be in an environment that accepts these faults and even appreciates them. it is much the same mentality as a “frat-boy” seeking approval from his fellow “frat-boys” because he didn’t get any at home. in short, it is the gang dynamic. the police, in many ways, have become another form of gang.

  48. HRM. If we continue rattling their cages, they will, as they already have, reveal something of benefit to help hang their asses. If you can’t handle my comments, then get the fu*^ off this blog!!! If my comments and others that bait these trolls offend you, go elsewhere and cry. We all lost respect for you already with this one and only post of yours.

      1. You wish it were true you asshole. The only ammo you have is in your loaded third leg! Bwaahhhhhaaaaa!

    1. Typical boohooing. If only Kelly were off the street he wouldn’t be dead. A fine sentiment for lots of practical reasons but I find it disturbing that the MSM insists on pretending this is an issue of not knowing how to deal with mentally ill people.

      This is about abuse of power, uncontrolled anger, an overarching sense of entitlement of cops.

      If any mentally ill need to be off the streets it’s sick cops. How about a program for that?!! Maybe that’s a FFFF post?

    2. Why were you drinking?” Coley asked the man, who has multiple mental disorders and has made several suicide attempts.

      “Because I’m alone and my life is sad,” said the client…

      Talk about the eloquence of simple understatement.

      If that didn’t bring a tear to your eye you must be a narcisstic FPD troll.

      If Legal, and HRM are going to turn against.those seeking justice and social change for better because sometimes folks get fed up with broken record sociopaths and sometimes lash back in frustration, one has to question their own belief in justice and a better society. 

      Personally, I appreciate their points and willingness to state them politely. I just question their dedication to a good cause.

      That said, I feel there would be wisdom in considering their words.calmly.

      jmho

      Good thought provoking article. Thanks for posting that link. Without this blog I’d have missed it entirely. 

  49. Fullerton Lover, thanks for posting that article. If these FPD trolls read that, or have the capability of reading that, they would stop diverting the blame on Ron Thomas for his son getting murdered by under-trained, under-qualified gang thugs known as the Fullerton Police Department.

  50. …I do agree that the acrimony on this blog is a little overwhelming at times, however I think we are morally remiss if we turn away from the opportunity to enlighten each other to a very real problem that exists in our society and will require us all to set aside our differences and work as one…someday Lord someday.

    1. I agree but the anti side would have to give some to meet in the middle. They won’t. So won’t ever happen.

      1. YEAH, MEET YOU IN THE MIDDLE OF A DARK ALLEY SO WE CAN GET OUR SKULLS CRUSHED BY YOU? YOU’RE DUMBER THAN I THOUGHT YOU WERE!

      2. Yes we will. Here is where we can meet – not all of the cops on suspension are probably equally responsible. Until we have good solid evidence of premeditation we should not assume it. There are undoubtedly good, honest, professional police officers workiing for the city of Fullerton.

        Seems pretty middle ground to me. Your turn.

      3. I agree with JT. I’m going to say that some rolled up at the end. I also think that none of them would have been there that evening if they had the choice.

  51. merijoe :
    HRM, you’re right, and I’m one of the ones who say “dont feed the trolls” yet I wind up up giving in to their stupid remarks and do just that-sometimes, I cant stop myself-Im human -Going forward, I will try to control myself

    Come on Merijoe, I thought you were with us, not agin us. Nothing wrong with troll feeding in this case, trust me. Don’t be ashamed or afraid to ‘bring it’. Notice how they haven’t chimed in since I blasted them with those three or so messages above. They are busy putting their fists through their walls or beating their wives. It’s a good thing (aside from the wife beating of course).

    1. You really your comments do anything? I enjoy them. They are like donut comments. Old. Comical. I enjoy everything on here. 🙂

      1. YEAH A COPPER WOULD KNOW ABOUT OLD DONUTS, WHEN YOU CAN’T GET A STRIPPER. YOU BOINK OLD DONUTS WHICH ARE ALL DRIED OUT AND CRUSTY. IF YOU’RE LUCKY, YOU MIGHT GET ONE WITH A LITTLE BIT OF COOKING OIL STILL ON IT!

  52. No, feeding the trolls though amusing and cathartic just encourages them-thats why I think that, on the other hand they need to know they cant get away with the shit they spew-The doctor seems to think its possible the are kids, I frankly dont care, if they are old enough to form thought patterns and type it out shows you what kind of criminal environment they have to deal with daily

    I personally, dont feel its conducive on here to have heated debates back and forth with these sick individuals-especially since it raises my blood pressure for nothing, but I dont speak for everyone

  53. Yes, however I don’t believe these trolls chiming in on this blog are kids because kids would fire back with harsher verbal insults than I’ve been giving, I believe. I also believe this ‘child-like’ behavior that Dr. Otto refers to continues into adulthood, so it’s conceivable to me that these trolls are the cops themselves.

    1. no, dr Ott specifically says
      “The lack of mature observation and demonstrable education in the instances I have observed also indicates the strong possibility that these people may, in fact, be children posing as adults.”

      No way I believe these are cops like they claim to be-they maybe having their kids or wives write for them while they dictate what the should write-thats a possibility-but no way do I believe the commenting trolls are actual cops

  54. I don’t know if you saw my post from last night inviting trolls and justice naysayers to come down and F with the ‘Wrong Guy, but I didn’t see any suspicious looking characters at the candlelight vigil last night; nor was I shot to death.

  55. That was a great article Fullerton Lover and I appreciate the link. @ Chris, I’m gonna take a shot at your question.
    Any injury to the brain can exacerbate or cause a dramatic personality shift, especially if that person already exhibits heightened traits of a personality disorder such as Narcissim, or Borderline Personality disorder due to their personal upbringing. Another thought is that people with these types of personality disorders can be very high functioning in society, but usually these individuals have another person or person’s in their life to keep them in check. It’s possible that a disruption in that dynamic caused this person in this particular situation to snap.

    I thought the most interesting (albeit heart wrenching) part of this article was the how the author pointed out that Kelly Thomas’ apologies and cries for his father only caused the officers to beat him more instead of stop. If I am understanding what I read correctly, the officers continued to yell “stop resisting” instead of saying anything that might calm their victim down. I lit a candle for the Thomas family last night, and will do so again today.

  56. “I would tend to ascribe the same analysis to those of your readers who choose to attack the victim and his family… these individuals suffer from a severe personality defect… the result of a lack of positive accomplishment and more specifically, the absence of non-auto erotic gratification.”

    In other words, inhumane jaggoffs who beat off too much and never get laid.

    This makes perfect sense. How else can one make sense of those who would be so sick, and disconnected, as to publicly attack as a bad parent, the obviously pained and grieving father of a murdered son?

  57. corrupt :
    Agreed.. I will stop too… but it is fun.

    Come on Corrupt, you can’t stop. If we get another troll attack, be yourself as usual. It’s effective.

  58. I refuse to accept the “analysis” of a German psychiatrist about our fine American police men of the FPD. These outstanding men and women undergo strenuous mental testing before they are admitted to the force. Many are called. Few are chosen. Only the best and brightest pass through the rigorous gauntlet to become officers.

    These are the proud few who saddle up every day and night to make sure YOU and YOUR property are under their constant gaze.

    1. Its all made up. Its Tony using a shrinks name. Tony wrote the whole thing. All made up BS like most information Tony and Chris spew. Very little facts used by this group. Reality.

    2. Because their “Analyst” is a fake. Why someone from Germany why not consult with a psychiatrist from the good old USA. Fake!!

  59. Hey LEGAL…about what you said:
    “Tony
    You are doing a dis-service to the community. The majority of your information lacks foundation and is unproven. It is formed by your thoughts and opinions, as well as misguided anonymous blogs. ”

    I think, LEGAL, that you need to go back and watch or rather listen to the original post on the cellphone video, the photos of Kelly Thomas’ face after the “severe beating” by police and then the video taken in the bus by one of the heroes of this story, the bus driver, who had the sense to record and time stamp the video of the witnesses after the police beat Kelly.
    Tony, please post those again, so LEGAL doesn’t stress his brain by going to look for them here.
    No evidence my ass

  60. @ Back the Badge:

    If you refuse to believe or accept an analysis based on nationality, then I encourage you to look at the DSM-IV. It is the Diagnostic and Statsitical Manual of Mental Disorders that is currently used by the American Psychiatric Association to describe and or diagnose Borderline Personality Disorder as well as Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    1. And remember that the info attempting to be used is all made up. Not one fact about whatbwas said or done. So it’s worth nothing. I can prove it by an actual evaluation.

      1. YOU DON’T HAVE A BRAIN NOR, ARE YOU CAPABLE OF ANY INDEPENDENT THOUGHT. SO THEREFORE YOUR USELESS STUDY OF YOUR ANALYZED FACTS RENDERS THEM MOOT!

  61. Listen up ‘Backthebadge’, ‘JohnDoe’, ‘RealityIs’ or any other F’d up names you’ve been using. Are the ones who provide the strenuous mental testing descendants of Adolph Hitler? If they had been so highly trained and tested for their mental capacity, why couldn’t the first two officers subdue Kelly Thomas professionally, without punches to his face, without puncturing his head multiple times with the buttend of a taser, two knee drops, etc.? Ron Thomas has has to subdue Kelly many times when he was off his meds and did it by effective submission holds and NO strikes to the body or head. All by himself. By the way, the FEDS currently have YOU and YOUR PROPERTY under constant gaze. Good luck to your future and good luck to your murdering cut-throat cop friends as they will very soon be enjoying their stay at CLUB FED.

      1. Back the Badge is not those other guys. He was here on FFFF when those trolls were just a gleam in the sperm donor’s eye.

    1. MORE ON PSYOPS:
      There is a whole world full of psychological mind tricks waiting out there for you. It’s a good thing you stumbled upon this one. Why?

      Well, it’s because this article will teach you how to use psychological mind tricks in your favor. These mind control techniques are applicable in almost any day-to-day situation. Many have benefitted from them; and now, you will too!

      Give First To Receive Later.

      In line with these psychological mind tricks, this version of the age old adage seemed more appropriate. The concept behind this is that whoever gives first has the power to call the shots.

      If you do someone else a favor, don’t ask them for anything in return just yet. This is so that he next time you’re in need of something, that person can’t help but return the favor. Let them be indebted to you and not the other way around.

      Ads by Google

      Go Lukewarm.

      Some situations call for you to be warm, some—to be a little cold. When you find yourself needing something from another person, it’s time to go lukewarm in dealing with them. Not too warm, not too cold either.

      As one of my favorite psychological mind tricks, this makes the other person feel more wary of you. Suddenly, they will be thinking if they did something to upset you.

      There’s no room for complaint either because you’re not exactly being all out indifferent. In order to appease you, they will find it difficult to refuse your request.

      Don’t be surprised to find a positive note or a cup of coffee all set up for you in the next few hours!

      These psychological mind tricks are simple and can be used almost anywhere. However, keep in mind that this doesn’t give you the authority to abuse other people. Besides, if you go overboard with these tricks, they won’t work quite as well as they did the first few times. Subtlety is the key. If you give yourself away, don’t expect other people to fall for such tricks again.

      Read more: http://michaellee.articlesbase.com/self-help-articles/psychological-mind-tricks-how-to-use-psychological-mind-tricks-in-your-favor-587587.html#ixzz1WTRRIYqn
      Under Creative Commons License: Attribution No Derivatives

  62. Reality Is :
    Its all made up. Its Tony using a shrinks name. Tony wrote the whole thing. All made up BS like most information Tony and Chris spew. Very little facts used by this group. Reality.

    Spoken like a real defeated troll, bottom feeder, pond scum, etc.

  63. Where to begin, where to begin?

    This is exactly why the addage in Washington politics regarding public damage control is so very true. When faced with a problematic situation, get as much as you can out as fast as you can. That is, you control the flow of information to prevent exactly what is happening on this blog. Both the Pro Police side as well as the Anti Police side are being misdirected by those who do control the information at different departments. The lack of even basic information being provided to the public , whether important or not to the investigation, is so minimal that the editorials on both sides is exactly what happens. It gets skewed on both sides because we are eager to fill in the information gaps with what we think is the truth.

    Having said that, I do know a few things to be true.

    1. On July 5, 2011, Kelly Thomas awoke somewhere in an Orange County city and was a live breathing human being. He was a homeless man, a son, a citizen, an American.

    2. Sometime during the day he was detained by the Fullerton Police at the train station. An incident happened between Kelly and the police that escalated and left him in a beaten state and he was transported to the hospital. He later passed away.

    3. The incident was witnessed by a number of other citizens. Those witnesses saw who the detainee and officers were and are now being questioned by different authorities.

    4.The officers who were on scene returned to work at the instruction of the higher ups and police work went on in Fullerton as if nothing happenned.

    5. Public outcry happenned and the protests started and the incident came to worldwide notoriety. (Fullerton is known throughout the world and not in a good way).The police chief stepped down, the city council was barraged and the officers were put on paid leave. Blogs like this and You Tube videos grew. Truths depending on what side you are on grew and flourished. They now fill the streets and internet.

    6. The City of Fullerton offered the Thomas family close to 1 Million dollars to settle any future lawsuits and now the FPD is being investigated by The FBI and DA’s office. Lawsuits that will be detrimental to Fullerton were filed.

    7. Still no information to the public and the truths and half truths grow and grow and the argument rages on.

    8. Kelly Thomas is dead and police are in hiding.

    What I can say for myself as a long time Fullerton resident is that my heart breaks for Kelly Thomas and his family and hope they receive a reprieve for their suffering. Our city is suffering as well as is the reputation of our leaders and the Police Department. I, for one, no longer look at an Police in the same manner I did before this incident happened. Nor do I have any respect for the city council and think they need to go. We need to review the practices of the entire city in the area of hiring,training and pay, especially with the Police department and the pay of the City Council. A say on these things should be provided to us the taxpayer. I would like to see this whole blot on Fullerton be resolved much sooner than later.

    I hope all these things are concluded in a rational manner.

      1. I want the same thing too. Justice.

        Biggest difference between your views Reality Is and most of ours is that you trust the DA’s office to do a fair and impartial investigation and we don’t, based on his prior record and various accusations of corruption that have come up previously.

  64. Fedupwithmorons :
    Wrong, did you come out of your shell or what? Good going! Oooorah!

    Hey Fedup, welcome back! Where have you been? Yes, I’m a morning person and an evening person. As long as I get an afternoon siesta, I can fire on all cylinders and blast these screwball trolls.

    1. HEY WRONG, HAVE YOU HEARD ANY GOSSIP ABOUT ME AT THE PROTESTS? IT WAS SOUNDING LIKE MY REPUTATION WAS PRECEDING MY PRESENCE IN FRONT OF CITY HALL YESTERDAY.

  65. I think a psych eval from a german doctor is the correct person to analyze, seeing as though we are dealing with Nazi’s who obtain(ed) their training at the Joseph Mengele School of Gestapo training

      1. Yeah, FedUp there is no Reinhold Ott, Ph.D. No such person has published any books, papers, or even a Ph.D. dissertation. Though there is no Reinhold Ott on the faculty list, there is a school of Psychology in the University in Tübingen, Germany.

        It is disappointing this blogsite would post a joke like this. Unfortunately it harms the credibility of all the blogging staff, imo. If trolls from either side want to post BS that is one thing, but when the blog writers do it, it is another.

        You sucked me in, Fullerton Shadow. Bad move. Next time I will take your blogs with a grain or few of salt. That doesn’t help bring justice for the Thomases. Shame!

      1. SIGMUND FREUD WAS A COCAINE ADDICT!

        Huh? What’s that got to do with the study of psychology, or global warming? There has been a great deal of work by many hundreds of people since Freud had dreams about his mom. Psychology is a firmly established field, young perhaps but established. As for global warming, whatever the causes may or may not be, it is an accepted fact according to researchers an many fields across the board.

        WC Fields was an alcoholic, but there’s still a sucker born everyday.

        1. XER, WHILST YOU WRITE SOME BRILLIANT COMBATIVE POSTS, I MUST GIVE YOU AN ASS CHEWING FOR MOCKING MY STATEMENT ABOUT FREUD AND PSYOPS.
          FREUD BEING THE “FATHER OF PSYCHOLOGY” WAS A DRUG ADDICT. HOW RELIABLE COULD THIS SCIENCE OF PSYCHOLOGY, WHEN A DRUG ADDICT IS DOING THE SCIENCE ON THE SUBJECT. FREUD IS NOT THAT GREAT, LATELY MOST OF HIS THEORIES ABOUT HOW OUR BRAINS WORK HAS BEEN DEBUNKED. SCIENCE IS BASED ON THEORY, THEREFORE, GLOBAL WARMING SCAM IS BASED ON THE HOT AIR COMING FROM THE FRAUDULENT STUDIES BY SCIENTISTS. SEE HOW MANY USE DRUGS….

          PSYOPS, IS A MILITARY TERM. I THOUGHT YOU WOULD HAVE LOOKED UP THE TERM AND YOU WOULD SEE HOW THESE COPS ARE TRYING TO USE IT AGAINST US. THEY WANT US TO BELIEVE THEIR RHETORIC. I DON’T, I WON’T I KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT HOW THEY FUNCTION, AND IN MOST CASES, DON’T FUNCTION.

          1. Fedup. You’re just hacked ’cause I said Merijoe is not a ding bat. :-p

            Don’t need to look up psyops, and we don’t disagree that [it] seems to be leaving amateurish tracks in the mud around here.

            As for Freud, he was the “Father of Psychoanalysis,” but we can chat about all that another time and place.

            Peace?

    1. merijoe, I was not agreeing with FEDUP that you are a ding bat. I don’t believe that, but do believe Dr. Ott is not real.

  66. Reality Is :
    You really your comments do anything? I enjoy them. They are like donut comments. Old. Comical. I enjoy everything on here.

    Yes. I’m here for your enjoyment, entertainment and your exposure.

        1. YOU HAVE ENOUGH CREAMED DONUTS, HELL THOSE STD’S HAVE YOU GUSHING….GO GET SOME ANTIBIOTICS WILL YA?

        2. YOU’LL LOSE ANY FIGHT WITH ME CHUMP! I’VE KNOWN TO PIN A FEW COPS TO THE FLOOR BOARDS! BESIDES THAT, YOU DON’T NEED TO GET ANY MORE SAND IN YOUR ASSCRACK!

  67. 1 Corinthians 13

    The Greatest Gift

    1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

    2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

    3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing.

    4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;

    5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;

    6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;

    7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

    8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

    9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.

    10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

    11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

    12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

    13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

  68. DID SOME RESEARCH ON DR OTT. THERE IS NO SUCH INSTITUTION, AND BY THE LOOKS OF THAT CLOWNS HARD GLAZE STARE, HE MORE THAN LIKELY IS A COP!

  69. Radley Balko at theagitator.com posts on cop abuse cases all the time – and in fact that is where I first learned of this case. Radley’s blogged about it a couple of times.

    The psych analysis also would explain why SWAT guys are so out of control and routinely kill dogs in home raids for no reason other than to sadistically impose pain on the owners. Radle has a lot of these cases. In fact, the cases are so numerous it’s hard to do a google search if you are looking for a specific one. For example, if you google Canton Ohio police shoot dog, you’ll find multiple incidents from different years. They also get tough to follow individually because the cops names are usually kept from the public.

    Radley developed the term “puppycide” for these cases and you can find many by googling that term.

  70. DAs often have narcissistic personalities. A lot of narcissists are very high functioning, and high achieving and often become politicians.

    T-Rack and his 15 year no-file record is in fact quite typical of DAs around the country. The unions need to go on the cop end. Our military guys in combat have stricter rules of engagement, force levels, and much more accountability than civilian LEOs (they also have superior training). Of course it would be absurd to have the military unionized, and it is just as absurd for the police. There’s plenty of market competition for cop employers, with thousands of departments around the country. Government unions are inherently morally hazardous, as the management not only doesn’t have any incentive to conrol costs, they have the opposite incentive. Fatter pay packagess result in fatter campaign cash.

  71. WRONG LOOK UP THE “USE OF FORCE CONTINUUM”. HEAD BLOWS ARE AN ACT OF LAST RESORT. THESE CLOWNS DID NOT PROPERLY ESCALATE FORCE, NOR, DID THEY ATTEMPT TO USE OTHER TYPES OF LESS THAN LETHAL WEAPONRY! SHAME ON THEM AND THE ACADEMY THAT TRAINED THESE ASSHOLES!

  72. Reality Is :Its all made up. Its Tony using a shrinks name. Tony wrote the whole thing.

    No way! Way! No Way. Way!

    He is the “learned Dr. Ott” from the “Schwabian Institut fur Psychologie in Tubingen, Germany.” Look it up.

    So funny. Who’s dumber? The guy that doesn’t get the joke or the guy compelled to pompously show off his supposed intelligence by revealing the joke? Most would say the latter, and that’s reality! LOL

    1. I don’t know. Eye think I was dummer. There actually is a school of psychology at the University in Tubingen. That was the trick. That’s okay, life’s a process. So is learning. When you stop learning you might as well be dead.

      One thing you revealed previously unknown though: Reality IS supposedly intelligent. That is news! Wait, maybe we should ask for references?

  73. There is an easy solution to police abuse. Every law-abiding LEGAL CITIZEN should be armed. This way, the officers jobs may be a little more difficult, and the approach to a citizen contact would take more care, but it would absolutely keep the “HEAVIES” from using any force they want when the situation clearly calls for ONLY a verbal interaction.

    1. YUP! REMEMBER IF A COP ILLEGALLY TOUCHES YOU, YOU NOT ONLY HAVE THE RIGHT TO RESIST, BUT TO USE DEADLY FORCE. SO SAYS THE SUPREME COURT! ELK V US

    2. Problem in your and the activists eyes would be that as we kill more people daily, it’s all our faults because the citizen pointed the gun at us. Arm em all. I don’t care. They just need to know we are shooting first.

      1. WELL, DUMMY WHEN WE START SHOOTING BACK, YOU WILL DEFINITELY BE OUT NUMBERED. YOU MIGHT WANT TO PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT!

  74. “No country can be well governed unless its citizens as a body keep religiously before their minds that they are the guardians of the law and that the law officers are only the machinery for its execution, nothing more.” – Mark Twain

  75. Wrong Guy :
    BP, your message was well-humbling to me and I appreciate you spending the time it took to send that message to me. You are definitely a man of reason; I believe I am too, sometimes.

    Wrong Guy, let me just start by saying I apologize back to you for being shocked at the response I received from you. I understand how easy it is to get p!ssed off on these blogs. You obviously have a lot of passion, care and concern about this (these) issue(s).
    That being said, aside from the more offensive comments, I think you’re hilarious! One minute I think you’re a moron, the next minute a genius!!! One minute I love ya, the next minute, I’m holding back from making a “wrong guy” type comment back to you! All I know is that I went and erased my bookmark to this blog, I deleted a link to it from my own blog, I deleted my RSS feed from Outlook, and I had pretty much written this blog off. Truthfully, it was rather relieving, because right or wrong, good or bad, this blog brings up some issues that keep the blood boiling and it’s been boiling for so long, I really could have used a break.
    But, now thanks to your humble reply, I have to go redo all the stuff I undid, which is going to be a pain in my gludial region!
    Thanks a whole hell of a lot (…he says with sarcasm)!

    Looks like I picked the “Wrong Guy” to mess with!

  76. Where is the money grubber today? Dad Thomas is trying to keep things stired up so he can get more money. Laughing at you Thomas. You don’t deserve anything!!!!

  77. You’re LAUGHING at a man whose son was brutally killed less than two months ago? Did this part of the analysis above hit home with you at all?? You are the lowest form of human life (a sociopath, narcissist, and a sadist — a true triple crown winner/loser):

    “I would tend to ascribe the same analysis to those of your readers who choose to attack the victim and his family. My suspicion is that these individuals suffer from a severe personality defect in which pleasure in the attempt to induce pain on others is the result of a lack of positive accomplishment and more specifically, the absence of non-auto erotic gratification.”

  78. No… he was not brutally killed, he did this to himself, sorry you lose. KT was breaking the law, running from police after breaking into cars, resisting, fighting back. He died from Excited Delirium, again I say… Dad Thomas is only in it for thr money and you know it, just won’t admit it.

    1. Yes, idiot, he threatened himself. Tased himself over and over. Contorted his body to the point where he could kick and stomp HIMSELF in the throat. Beat himself in the head. Smashed his head with the butt of HIS taser. Yup, this physical harm was all self-inflicted. You are quite bright (not).

        1. Wrong. I never thought that. But you did. Dummy.

          However I do believe you are a mom’s basement whackeroffer.

  79. Sadist.

    Sociopath.

    Narcsissist.

    Sorry, but YOU lose. You are not a doctor. You are not a coroner. You have absolutely no knowledge about this “excited delirium you speak of.”

    As the analysis says, you take pleasure in the pain of others, rubbing salt in their wounds. You are one of the worst examples of humanity I have ever witnessed. Sadist. Sociopath. Flaming narcissist. I only hope you behave this way around actual people.

  80. Does Dad Thomas think he is the only one who ever lost a child to unusual circumstances? He does not have the corner on the market of dead children. Did every one who lost a child get money?

    1. What is up with your daddy issues? Why are you sociopaths and sadists SOOOOOO concerned with Ron Thomas, when you don’t give a crap about what happened to KELLY Thomas. You are beyond pathetic.

      By the way, I hope that every parent who lost a child to police brutality DID get a settlement in civil court, but that’s not even the point here. Last time I checked, the majority of the people who visit this blog (you know, the HUMAN ones, the ones with EMPATHY) aren’t waiting patiently to see where the lawsuit goes. Idiot.

  81. Anon. You would be surprised what knowledge I have about this subject but not ready to reveal it at this time. Soon to be, soon to be…

  82. And there we have it… DING DING DING.

    You proved your were a sociopath and a sadist by your previous comments. Now, like a few other posters (or maybe you’re one in the same), you have proven that you are a NARCISSIST.

    You, and you alone, know everything about this case that nobody else does. You are holding it close to the vest because YOU are the one with all the knowledge and power. Nice job, narcissist. You know absolutely NOTHING (except how to resemble garbage).

    1. Did they make “excited delerium” up? It sounds a little absurd. I think that’s something that a child might say.

  83. Google it! You will get more info than I can give on a blog.

    Anon: Don’t get so upset, you might have a stroke. I thought we were free to say anything we want on this blog. I didn’t realize that it is restricted to “feelgood for Anonymous!” I guess you can’t take both sides.

  84. I’m not upset, and you don’t need to worry about me, scum. I feel sorry for you, Jaybird.

    You can say anything you want, no matter how vile or anti-social — that’s part of your right as an American (just as it is a right to not be beaten to death in the streets by out of control cops). I’m just commenting on your interesting thoughts — not telling you that you don’t have a right to share them.

    By the way, Officer Wondering/Jaynbond (I’m assuming you’re the same person), the fact that you can find some rare condition on the Internet, and copy and paste it doesn’t actually mean it had anything to do with the death of Kelly Thomas at the hands (and feet) of FPD’s finest. I’m no doctor (nor are you), but I’m thinking the tasing, beating and stomping had more to do with Kelly’s coma then some mystery condition.

    1. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT KELLY WAS SUFFERING FROM ANY KIND OF PSYCHOTIC EPISODES WHEN COPS APPROACHED HIM. THESE COPS ARE GRASPING AT STRAWS!

  85. Anonymous: I don’t have Daddy issues, just seems that “Daddy” was saying all kinds of unkind and vulgar things about officers and what he would like to do to them. Should he not answer for those remarks or does he get a pass? I think not! He is just as responsible to others for his remarks as anyone else.

    1. By the way, PeePee, how should the elder Thomas have “to answer” for his unkind/vulgar statements? Should it just be with vile verbal taunts and insults on this board or do you wish to hurt him more, sadist? How many blasts of a taser doe HE deserve? How many kicks and hits from you and your cop buddies do you think would be appropriate??? More or less than his son got??

  86. Please link the “unkind things” he said. Were they threats or statements of rage at the death of his son? I believe we live in the U.S., where free speech still exists. That’s why you and others can come and smear him and his son, less than 2 months after his death. Doesn’t make them right, but you have that RIGHT.

    The fact that you equate Ron’s rightfully angry comments at the FPD and the city with the death of his son truly proves you are a sociopath and have ZERO understanding or compassion for anyone other than yourself or another in uniform.

  87. OK Jaynbound, Reality Is, I lv cops, John Doe, etc. I hereby now dub thee FPD Dicks. That way, I no longer have to type all your names out, this will be my reference to all of you on my further posts. Uh, again, Ron Thomas turned down your bosses attorney’s hush-money of $900,000. Shows he’s not in it for the Dough; still listening Doughboy? Your Sadistic commence lend much credence to this ‘blog’ about the mentality of your 2-digit IQ’d apes, like your homies, or even yourselves that murdered his son. I’d tell you to go and ‘Piss Off’ on another blog but for some reason your stupidity amuses me. Your sadistic comments are providing much publicity to the FEDS. That’s the best part you Homeless Hating, Brain-Fucked Trolls.

  88. No need to feel sorry for me. At the end of all this I think I will be on the top side of the issue and you will not!

    Excited Delirium is used by many coroners and pathologists across the world to diagnos death. Whether you want to accept it or not!

    1. “across the world….”? Ok then, can you give me an example of another country where “many coroners and pathologists” use “Excited Delerium” in their reports? Do they translate it or just use the English version?

  89. So you’re a “top,” then, is that what you’re saying? Good to know. Maybe we can find you a willing and compliant “bottom.”

    However, I didn’t know this was some juvenile game to finish on top. I thought it was about justice for Kelly (will you pat yourself on the back Jaybird, for being on “top” when Kelly is still dead?? I guess so, since you have no regard for human life). Sadly, though, for a sadist/narcissist/sociopath, it’s about imposing his will and proving that HE (and he alone) is correct.

    By the way, genius, there are hundreds of diseases and condition that are fatal. I can pick one out of the hat also — umm, let’s take brain aneurism as an example. Me citing a real disease doesn’t mean it has anything to do with Kelly being beaten to death by cops exhibiting excessive force.

  90. Justice Marijoe? Where is the justice for the officers? Innocent until proven otherwise. You have them tried and convicted with no cause.

    1. where was that “innoncent until proven guilty” bullshit for Kelly Thomas- and BTW, if I say they are guilty then they are-I get to decide guilty or innocent-Im not in a court of law-arent you glad im not a juror?

        1. The only ‘decision’ Kelly made was to try and survive, though it wasn’t likely a conscious decision, more of a natural reaction to being threatened with physical violence. It seems pretty obvious it didn’t matter what his decision,several cops were going to get their kicks, kicks, punches, stomps and all the other fun they planned at Kelly’s expense. Shame once they got started the blood rage took over and his death was inevitable. Poor Kelly. You want sympathy for the devil? Look somewhere else. It’s not here. Only your pathetic troll ‘Greek chorus’ will sing for you and your six killers (yes, guilty by the choice, CHOICE, to do nothing).

    2. You’re so right, Jaybird. Those poor, poor officers sitting at home, anonymous (with their identities protected by the authorities), sipping ice tea and collecting their full paychecks, refusing to speak with the DA, while the system does everything in its power to stonewall and drag this out.

      At least you finally showed some empathy, though, for other humans (the KILLERS of Kelly Thomas !!!).

  91. Ott would say, the trolls and assailants are – unfortunately, so fucked up with mental illness and/or are demon spawns with chips missing, that they dont process reality- only what they want to think -selective thoughts -but thats just a guess on my part

      1. Rule #1. Whenever someone makes a good point you can’t refute accuse them of talking about themselves. After all everything is actually about ME ME ME ME ME

  92. wondering if any of the involved officers have children?

    hopefully the wifeys will at least find a better daddy role model for them, while daddys away.

    maybe some good can come out of this afterall !!

      1. Right. He walked away. Kelly’s head and ribs beat themselves to a bloody pulp.

        This asshole is the worst kind of weasel. 10-1 he cut a deal with FPD so he could keep “selling jewelry” on the streets – a violation of several municipal code sections.

      2. But he also said in the preceeding paragraph that “I just stayed away from it because I don’t get into that,” … which means to me, if he stayed away from it, and didn’t see anything, he isn’t a real witness to anything. Right?

    1. pathetic interview…. “I just stayed away from it, I don’t get into stuff like that” = he walked the other way. Loser

    1. I love this last little part:

      Fritschie said he knows many people will disagree with his account of the arrest. He also believes the unreleased tape that is in the hands of officials conducting the investigations will explain what happened.

      “I’m entitled to my opinion. People say it’s radical. That’s what I drew from what I saw,” Fritschie said.

      If you’re just reading it quickly, it almost makes it seem like the FPD showed him the tape… Where is Check Reality on this one? Weren’t we discussing suspect witnesses yesterday?

      1. If everyone reading about the newest witness would stop and think for a
        Moment, we are being set up by the cops. They are attempting to use psyops on us!

        1. I agree completely. I am still rather suspicious of the other “new” witness that came forward who was the subject of another blog post. Reality Check listed several observations about his interview that I also found suspect.

          1. It’s hard to tell. Transients are odd people. They come out of the bushes and woodwork at the strangest times and say some of the most off the wall stuff. I’m sure if anyone on here really wanted to know, they could go find him and talk to him themselves. Problem is he might have been approached a few times by now and you never know what he’s all about. Use caution.

  93. I appreciate the good doctors analysis of the Fullerton cops.Yes they are bullies but the one group they hate the most are gays. I think they are scared they may be gay too. I have been verbally abused and spit on by these fine people, but at least I am still alive. I never thought they would kill but now I am sure they are capable of murder . They are totally devoid of human feelings and emotions and compassion.

    1. if they are closet gays they cant be totally devoid of feeling

      They can feel at least one thing

      btw the “DR” has been debunked

      it was shadow boy

  94. Hey FGB (Fullerton Gay Boy), thanks for sharing that with us. It’s all part of what the world needs to know about these racist animals (which is an insult to animals) that call themselves Fullerton Police! I’m sorry you were targeted by these apes.

  95. Fedupwithmorons :
    Wrong did you get your nap? You are in fine form!

    No, I would have but a hot latina came over, in fact she’s still here, which is why I’m not posting as much. I’ll be in full form, hopefully later. Thanks for the compliment. Where has your smartassism been by the way?

  96. Get Real: Been thinkin’ bout the 14 year old that was allegedly dropped kicked by an Officer. Did not happen. Been checkin’ on it for awhile. Again Did not happen. Don’t know where u r gettin’ info from but you need a new source.

  97. He’s probably getting his info from the truth, an eye witness, a normal citizen and somehow, once again your brethren in badge covered it up like you’ve so amusingly and nervously have been trying to cover up your lame asses about killing Kelly Thomas, you TAINTED witnesses.

    1. LOL. You are a nut. Love it. It’s people like you that made the laws governing the police process possible. Any use of force, ticket writing, or anything but a cop praising you because you are a citizen is unacceptable. You will see what reality is when you see that middle ground. Until then you will disagree with every police decision made in this world.

      1. You are afraid of a 135 llbs. dead homelessman. Cowardice doesn’t get any lower than that. Dr. Ott is right! 🙂

          1. Really? Thanks for the admission of pussyhood. That makes you a real weakling. 🙁

            But you really are more afraid of Kelly dead. Your chickens are coming home to roost. That GED might get you a job at Burger King.

  98. Fred Alcazar :
    Right. He walked away. Kelly’s head and ribs beat themselves to a bloody pulp.
    This asshole is the worst kind of weasel. 10-1 he cut a deal with FPD so he could keep “selling jewelry” on the streets – a violation of several municipal code sections.

    Great Point Alcazar…FEDS, please investigate that.

  99. According to Richard Fritschie, 63, the two officers who pinned Thomas to the ground shouted “put your hands behind your back” several times as the mentally ill man writhed against the concrete trying to break free.

    “If he’d done what he was told, he’d still be alive today,” said Fritschie, an Orange County native and self-described “street kid” for most his life.

    This man needs to go somewhere else to live this type of talk will not be allowed. He needs to pay a price for this kind of hate speech.

    1. THIS NEW WITNESS IS NOT RELIABLE. HE CAN’T MAKE STATEMENTS ABOUT WHAT HE DOES NOT KNOW BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT!

      1. Oh and you can? You make things up yourself all the time. Its amusing. Show us your facts, proof something. You just want to post the facts that you make up.

        1. Concerned, have you noticed that the cops on here love to mock the messenger.
          Either they want to play as though they don’t know what certain terminology means, they make fun of those who do know. I am not a troll,I am however a Kelly supporter.

  100. My My My Wrong Guy… U need to settle down. If I am proved… I repeat PROVED wrong when this is all over, I’ll be standing next to you for the justice this situation deserves, but I like FACTS not Fiction! Show me the facts.

    1. Yeah, right. Once the facts are proved? You mean the one chance in a hundred our swine of a DA does his job?

      Of course he is a political tool and may finally pull one out of his ass.

      Then you will disappear like the narcissistic, sadistic, mom’s basement whackeroffer you are.

      1. Nope. I’ll never disappear. I’ve always said if someone did wrong, then they deserve to be punished. I just said from the beginning, no one will be charged with murder and all 6 cops won’t be charged.

  101. I’m tired of these foul homeless mother fuckers making this stuff up. You can tell by the interview of Fritschie he is clearly fearful of the cops or as Travis (Fred Alcazar) pointed out he must be on the take paid by the cops. This is not the type of homeless I want living in my city, time to move on mister.

  102. Jaybird’s a JAYCAT. Yeah JAYCAT, which is the term for the ‘bottom-of-the-barrel’ inmates in County.

  103. Jaynbond :
    My My My Wrong Guy… U need to settle down. If I am proved… I repeat PROVED wrong when this is all over, I’ll be standing next to you for the justice this situation deserves, but I like FACTS not Fiction! Show me the facts.

    I do appreciate you offering to ‘stand next to me for the justice this situation deserves’. Truly, I do look forward to not only stand next to you when ‘True Justice’ is served but shaking your hand. However, if the Policetruth prevails, I will still use my far more superior verbal skills to put you in your real place. Thanks for the offer..Accepted it is.

  104. WTF did I just say to Jaycat? Excuse me, but I already know Truejustice WILL prevail. My Compadres told me. I’ve got clout.

    1. I think one of the most touching things that happened from this tragedy is that people from all over the country and from different socio-economic groups came to a consensus that what happened to Kelly Thomas was an unspeakable injustice.

      That being said, I get the feeling from this new witness that the FPD or Fullerton City Council members and their supporters got together and said to themselves “Hey, Kelly Thomas was this annoying homeless dude, lets go get our own annoying homeless dude to back us up…. that’ll work, right?”

      That kind of mentality is totally offensive.

      1. B.S. That guy is an entrepreneur. He sells bottle cap jewelry at the corner of Harbor and Commonwealth to passing motorists. I hear he’s been given an honorary Chamber of Commerce membership.

        1. That’s exactly what I’m saying… Connections to the Chamber of Commerce = Not a reliable witness. If I were a corrupt and dimwitted member of the city council or chamber of commerce, I would love for my own “Kelly Thomas Look Alike” to support my cause. They don’t understand the true heinousness of what the FPD 6 actually DID.

  105. Kelly Thomas had just had his skull BASHED into the red concrete curb, there was a large pool of blood on the ground, and Kelly was being continuously punched, kicked and Tasered, etc. His head/neck was also in a choke hold, and he had one arm pinned underneath him.

    Kelly most likely couldn’t have gotten his arm out from underneath his body even if he tried to, since he was being sat on and pinned down. And, he couldn’t breathe from the choke hold he was in. He probably couldn’t even think straight because of oxygen deprivation to his brain, and because of the pain. Or, because of his confused state, after he had just had his head bashed in; Kelly was likely trying desperately to defend himself from this deadly attack.

    Kelly probably couldn’t even think straight after having his head bashed into the curb; he was in self-defense mode, trying to protect his head from more of the deadly blows.

    If the FPD officers would have SHUT UP for two minutes, taken a breather, stop beating him for two minutes, and given Kelly two minutes to regain his bearings and given him a chance to think and to try to say something in response to them, and if the officers would have taken five minutes to find out Kelly’s condition, both physical and mental, and to find out if Kelly was even capable of responding to their orders, they would have easily gained Kelly’s compliance.

    And, even if Kelly was not capable of putting his hands behinds his back, because he was so dazed and confused from being beaten, I highly doubt the Kelly was even capable of standing up and running away at that point. At that point, Kelly would have needed to be hospitalized and it would have taken weeks for him to recover from the beating he had already been received.

    Kelly was calling for his Dad and for God to help him. He was not any kind of a threat to the officers, but they kept beating him anyway.

    The officer’s didn’t even give Kelly a chance to comply. Their beating of Kelly was unabated and merciless. The officers were in a frenzied, adrenaline pumped, Roid Raged attack. They were out of control. They weren’t about to stop their attack until Kelly was dead. They continued their viscous attack, even after Kelly was unconscious, not moving, and completely silent. They administered the coup de grace; they didn’t want any living witness/victim to be able to testify against them.

    The officers demanded IMMEDIATE compliance, even from someone who had just had their brains bashed in, and even when the officers’ orders and expectations were completely ridiculous.

    Whenever I have tripped on an uneven sidewalk and fallen down really hard, or received a hard blow to my body or head from falling on ice, or at an ice skating rink, or slipping on gravel, or falling off of a ladder, etc., etc., it has always taken me quite a while to even figure out what just happened to me. I have to sit there for a long while and try to clear my head. It takes a few minutes to even think clearly. I’m sure with Kelly it was the same way. Kelly wasn’t even given a chance to figure out what to do.

    Kelly was in self-preservation mode and he wasn’t even given any chance at all to clear his head or to think about what to do. Kelly was NEVER a threat to those officers. Kelly NEVER had a chance to fight back after they smashed his brains into the curb and then put Kelly into a choke hold.

    The officer’s never even gave Kelly a reasonable chance to comply with their demands. The officers were on top of Kelly, beating him non-stop, every second of the time- until he was brain dead. They didn’t stop beating Kelly-not even after he was unconscious.

    The officers never intended for Kelly to have a chance. The officers never intended for Kelly to live. The officers never cared two cents about Kelly’s welfare. AND THEY STILL DON’T.

    They officers only care about trying to make a helpless man look like he murdered himself. Or, to make it appear that they are justified in killing an unarmed man- because he couldn’t get his two arms behind his back. Or, to make us believe that they are justified in killing Kelly because he tried to protect his face and head from their deadly blows.

    Or, they want us to believe that it was an accident. It wasn’t. At some point, you KNOW that if you keep bludgeoning a man long enough, that man will die. It WAS NOT an accident. The officers are trained; they KNOW what deadly force is. This was not their first fight; they want to justify their murder of a human being. It can in no way be justified. The officers attacked Kelly as he ran AWAY from them. Kelly Thomas was unarmed. Kelly was disabled. Kelly WAS murdered.

    The FPD 6 who post here are sociopaths, and they are evil. The FPD 6, and others who defend them, do not inspire respect; they only inspire fear and great distrust by good citizens.

    The officers are certainly “shooting themselves in the foot” by posting their asinine, delusional excuses on this blog for all to read. The public is now able to see for themselves, up close, exactly what kind of evil men they truly are. The public is now able to get insight into their extremely depraved minds.

    I suppose it’s good that we can read their comments, because then we realize EXACTLY what the EVIL is that we are up against. Evil, pure evil- It cannot be reasoned with. Now we know who our enemy is.

    These FPD 6 officers are far more delusional than Kelly Thomas ever was. The FPD 6, and the other officers who are complicit, are FAR MORE dangerous to society than Kelly Thomas ever was.

    The abuse of our citizens, and especially the weakest among us, will not be tolerated by Americans. We will NOT allow ourselves, or our children, to be treated so unjustly, ESPECIALLY not by those who are sworn to “serve and protect.”

    The VILE and EVIL men, in the FPD, and everywhere, who dare to defile the honor of the blue uniform, will be punished for their crimes.

    The many evil deeds committed by the officers, and even the arrogant, unrepentant, taunting words written by officers on this blog- are the result of many years of such evil occurring with impunity.

    No longer will good citizens sit by and allow these horrific crimes to be done in their names.

    1. One of the best analysis. What about the rest of Fullerton polices, leaders, unions, politicans, and Orange County DA with stonewall, delay, cover up, deceptive, and lies? Please put together another unbiased as above.
      We strongly believe that these are a real criminals.

    2. The VILE and EVIL men, in the FPD, and everywhere, who dare to defile the honor of the blue uniform, will be punished for their crimes.

      Is that a threat? Quick send it to the FBI haahaahahahahaa

        1. Want to ad me to your FBI reporting list, hotshot?

          I agree with this statement: The VILE and EVIL men, in the FPD, and everywhere, who dare to defile the honor of the blue uniform, will be punished for their crimes.

          The Kelly Thomas Murder is going to lead to people being removed from office, perhaps case law being created, and laws being passed to bring greater accountability to police forces. It may even lead to reigning in Police Unions, or perhaps their eventual abolishment. Heads are going to roll (figurative, jerk). I don’t know if it will only happen in Fullerton, or as Justice expressed her hope, “everywhere.” Not only can’t speak about ‘across our nation,’ but can’t make promises for other countries, though my suspicion is, it just may influence laws some other places. Time will tell. There is a lot happening in the world today, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Syria, and even Fullerton, California. Things are changing. Shall Americans really allow ourselves to be humiliated by the Fullerton police when thousands of people in the Middle East and North Africa are sacrificing their lives for the Freedoms and Rights our Constitution and Bill of Rights granted us, and we have willingly ceded out of irrational fear? I sure hope not. Not my America! Not the great land I was born and raised in and loved all my life. Point is, you know as well as I do what she meant, and we both know it was no threat, so don’t be asinine.

          Psyops was being a wiseacre and you know it as well as everyone else.

    3. Kelly Thomas had just had his skull BASHED into the red concrete curb, there was a large pool of blood on the ground, and Kelly was being continuously punched, kicked and Tasered, etc. His head/neck was also in a choke hold, and he had one arm pinned underneath him.

      Kelly most likely couldn’t have gotten his arm out from underneath his body even if he tried to, since he was being sat on and pinned down. And, he couldn’t breathe from the choke hold he was in. He probably couldn’t even think straight because of oxygen deprivation to his brain, and because of the pain. Or, because of his confused state, after he had just had his head bashed in; Kelly was likely trying desperately to defend himself from this deadly attack.

      Kelly probably couldn’t even think straight after having his head bashed into the curb; he was in self-defense mode, trying to protect his head from more of the deadly blows.

      If the FPD officers would have SHUT UP for two minutes, taken a breather, stop beating him for two minutes, and given Kelly two minutes to regain his bearings and given him a chance to think and to try to say something in response to them, and if the officers would have taken five minutes to find out Kelly’s condition, both physical and mental, and to find out if Kelly was even capable of responding to their orders, they would have easily gained Kelly’s compliance.

      And, even if Kelly was not capable of putting his hands behinds his back, because he was so dazed and confused from being beaten, I highly doubt the Kelly was even capable of standing up and running away at that point. At that point, Kelly would have needed to be hospitalized and it would have taken weeks for him to recover from the beating he had already been received.

      Kelly was calling for his Dad and for God to help him. He was not any kind of a threat to the officers, but they kept beating him anyway.

      The officer’s didn’t even give Kelly a chance to comply. Their beating of Kelly was unabated and merciless…

      I’m NOT Kelly Thomas, but approve this post anyway.

      Way to spell it out, Justice.

      The problem was, they were in a killing rage. It had nothing to do with fear. That is ludicrous on the face of it. It didn’t even have to do with his involuntary jerking away and running when feeling threatened physically. It did have to do with blood lust, the desire to inflict mortal harm on a hapless victim, a helpless homeless guy. Bullies NEVER pick on someone who could actually fight back. Too much trouble, and they aren’t man enough to stand up to a real fight anyway. Bullies want a weak victim they can hurt, that’s all. It’s not even about proving their manhood. It’s just about finding a victim and hurting someone who can’t hurt them back. Everyone knows, and have known since time immemorial, bullies are cowards. We all know it on a gut level.

      Question if there are any lawyers out there: If a group of gangbangers attack a member of a rival gang, kick, punch, and choke him, and the kid dies. Is that not a murder charge? Just wondering.

      1. I think that the exact same thing happens if they respond on this call and the guy is 6’5″ 250 pounds. I don’t think they chose to do what they did because of his size. Just my opinion.

        Answer to your question. Yes, probably murder.

    4. In reference to my comments above, I wish to clarify my words and my intent. Again, so that readers, and trolls, will not in any way misconstrue my intent or meaning, I state for the record: I am in no way advocating for vigilantism.

      Vigilantism would only result in lowering ourselves to the same EVIL conduct and lack of morals that were demonstrated by the FPD6, and others.

      However, I DO believe that the violent, inhumane, sadistic and unlawful murder of Kelly Thomas HAS brought, and WILL CONTINUE to bring GREAT attention and focus onto the issue of police brutality.

      I also believe that good citizens across America, including myself, have FINALLY been awakened from their complacent slumber by a HORRIFIC nightmare.

      This nightmare will be keeping Americans awake, night and day, for many years to come. This nightmare is the violent murder that was perpetrated against Kelly Thomas in Fullerton, CA, by those who were sworn to “protect and serve.” This horrendous nightmare deprived Kelly Thomas of his God given right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

      I believe that now, after being so violently jolted from our slumbers by this nightmare, Americans will not simply roll over and go back to sleep.

      I believe that good citizens everywhere WILL stand up against evil and they WILL defend the defenseless, in word and in deed. We WILL speak out loudly for justice to be adjudicated in our courts of law. We WILL no longer be immobilized by fear, while murderers act with impunity.
      We WILL NOT be silenced by fear of retaliation, nor by threats.

      The courts must get this right. Justice must be served by our courts of law and the evil men who are responsible for Kelly’s murder must be punished, lest untold numbers of other citizens continue to suffer the same fate as Kelly Thomas. Justice WILL ultimately be served by God.

      Kelly Thomas’ murder is the BLASTING alarm bell that has warned us all of IMMINENT danger. We WILL NOT ignore Kelly’s warning to us. Kelly WILL NOT die in vain.

      I pray for God’s blessings and peace to be upon Kelly Thomas and his family.

      And, I also pray that God will bless each one of us with the strength, courage and wisdom that is needed to stand for truth and justice and to defend the defenseless and the weak amongst us, and to defend our constitutional and God given rights, and to ensure that evil does not prevail.

  106. That is an extremely conceivable account of what probably happened on July 5th. The other sad part of the story is that there HAD to have been at least two reasonable good cops present, but the “Code of Silence’ stopped them from stopping the murder. They also need a 25 years to life in my opinion.

    1. There is no such good cops in Fullerton and Orange County. The rest are cowardice and they are only interested to protect their generous paychecks and overtime.
      Lead by example. Protect and Serve are only the name so these cops making more money for themselves.
      As stories unfold in front of our eyes, FFFF exposes the ugly truths about leaderships and current status in Fullerton and Orange County. These snakes guarding the hen house.

  107. We need your unbiased assestments and expertise on Fullerton leaders, city officials, and council members?
    What do you think about the rest of the Fullerton cops? Are they suppose to protect the weaks, uphold the laws, and high on integrity?

  108. Yes, there are good Fullerton Police individuals. I feel sympathy for them due to the Killer 6. They have the proper ethics and became law enforcement officers for a good reason. To make the community safe and protect and serve us good citizens. I know all law enforcement agencies have those. However, I hate saying it again, that “Code of Silence” usually prevents them from standing up for what’s right, when an ‘out of control cop’ wants his moment underneath the opaque street lights. IE. Bashing an innocent man’s face in the pavement.

    1. Believe it or not, that code of silence isn’t what you think it is. So many cops have been fired in the last 10 years for acts that someone else did and they didn’t say anything. It’s there in a different type of way now, but not this code that no one will ever say anything about anyone ever. Not even close.

  109. I think “Reality Is” might be Jay Cicinelli. Or at least one of his friends or relatives. I know a few people have guessed earlier that it was him, but I’m starting to see some patterns that actually show it could be him. I’ll explain.

    We know that “Reality Is” posts under a lot of different user names. Sometimes he has even made the mistake of posting the exact same comments, almost word-for-word with more than one user name. And if you read the trolls’ comments, you can also see a very similar diction and tone (using very short, terse sentences and repeating the exact same phrase “all the facts”).

    And has anyone else noticed that Reality Is seems to become the most agitated whenever anyone specifically mentions Jay Cicinelli? If you look at his posts, you can tell there were a few times he was backed into a corner and it seemed like he let things slip out now and then. (Like the comment “it involves me”)

    I never would have imagined that one of the 6 Fullerton cops would be brazen (and stupid) enough to actually post on this site. But I’m sure Jay Cicinelli would be.

    I’m also sure that Tony could clear all this up if he really needed to. He could get the server logs and the IP address for Reality Is (and all his other troll aliases). I know Tony wouldn’t post the locations of course…but it would be REALLY interesting to see if all those posts originate from one city…like say, La Mirada? Or maybe a nearby city.

    How about that, Admin…we already know that the same troll is posting under several different names. But can we at least confirm whether or not they all are coming from the same location? You don’t even have to name the city. We can make an inference.

    Trying to debate with Reality Is is a waste of time. But it might actually be useful…he might slip up and give away more information. Even if he’s not Jay Cicinelli, I have a feeling that he’s more than just some random troll. He has some kind of connection to the FPD.

    1. No Chris, I’m not Jay.

      I’ve used I think 3 names, but only because this one didn’t work. I thought it got blocked each time but then it came back to life.

      Yes I believe in the facts on everything.

      I try not to ever get agitated. Probably minor frustration with the process.

      I just believe in the system, the process, using facts, and getting justice if needed. I have a lot of experience in dealing with activists and anti police people. I enjoy it. I don’t get offended by their beliefs, I just dislike it when people use lies or rumors as leaders of the groups just to get interest from the group. I”ve seen it used over and over by the leaders of the groups and it just doesn’t seem fair. I believe in good policing, fair policing by the book, and good community relationships. I could sit down with any one of you right now and we would have a good productive conversation about anything. I don’t like such separation in beliefs, but in this case it is what it is for now. Time will tell if we come closer together, or remain far apart. Either way, I hope the truths come out and justice is served if someone screwed up.

      1. You try not to ever get agitaed? Try harder. You suck at not being agitated. I’ve read some of your troll posts and they’re pretty terrible through and through. I don’t believe someone who overposts obnoxious smiley faces is capable of having a “good productive conversation about anything.”

        1. Email and blogs can be deceiving in terms of meaning or tone. I hear what you are saying. Copy, I suck. I’m terrible. Love smiley faces. Duly noted. 🙂

      2. Reality is suddenly got civil and actually writes coherently. I suspect a personnel switch with Goodwrench taking over for his less literate chimp brother.

          1. So we’re certain that you are a guy? LOL. When you said yesterday that you arrested Rodney King once, I was almost going to say Stacy Koon is on this blog? Wouldn’t it be hilarious if you WERE connected to that trial? Not believing a word you say though. Very clever. I think in the end we’ll just find out you’re some IT guy in Virginia. 🙂

  110. Reality Is: You seem to be knowledgeable about all things police, may I ask? Does a taser make noise only by being touched into a body or can it make noise by just pressing a button? Maybe a bit simplistic but I don’t know the answer. Can U help?

    1. Yes.

      No, a taser makes noise before it hits the body. Everyday we are supposed to spark test the taser. That means removing the dart cartridge, turning it on, pulling the trigger. It automatically cycles through for 5 seconds which means you hear the sparks for 5 seconds. Then we put the cartridge back on and put it back in the holster.

      In the field, there are two ways to use the taser. One is removing it from the holster, turning it on, pointing it and pulling the trigger. This shoots the two darts into the body. Once the darts enter, they are live and it will be live for that burst, or until I let off the trigger. I can pull the trigger again depending on compliancy or ability to handcuff and get in custody.

      The other way is by removing the dart cartridge from the taser after removing it from the holster. Usually in fights or in close quarters with several officers, it is used as a “drive stun”. So I can reach into the struggle or the fight and push it into the body of the suspect and pull the trigger. If the end of the taser can get contact, the suspect will feel the taser. If there is too much clothes or bad contact, you will just hear the taser going off and it’s not doing anything. Drive stuns are ok but seem like they don’t work all that great. They are used in close quarters, like this incident. The darts usually work pretty good as long as both darts hit the body.

      So that’s it. Most departments use the X26 Taser.

  111. SO… Reality Is, if the button was pushed on the taser it would make a noise even if it was not being used. Is that what I am understanding?

    1. Exactly. There are many times in a fight or struggle on the ground that a taser is going off and not being applied. Psychological. You would be amazed how fast someone sobers up or smartens up when they hear that 5 second burst of electricity. It does wonders. If you hear it loud and clear, it’s probably not being applied in a stun drive way. The other way you will usually see it because the officer is standing up and you see the wires and the suspect clearly. The darts are done from a distance.

  112. GED? Come on.

    Fred Alcazar :
    Really? Thanks for the admission of pussyhood. That makes you a real weakling.
    But you really are more afraid of Kelly dead. Your chickens are coming home to roost. That GED might get you a job at Burger King.

    1. He could have been tased no times or 6 times or whatever the witnesses say they heard. That will all be spelled out in the reports for sure. If darts were used, the darts and number tags are kept for evidence. The tasers are computers so it shows discharges. Body checked for marks from drive stuns, etc. Taser use will be documented pretty thoroughly.

      1. Yeah, I’m sure the reports will match the video fairly accurately, well after the video is altered to fit the reports anyway. Can you spell C.O.V.E.R.U.P? Oh, that’s right, you claim to want justice. Of course, what cover-up?

        Gotta love your smoke and mirrors, Mr Majik.

        You are just so righteously believable! Not. The only thing you want is to get your boyz off. Not once since I started reading here have you said one unbiased thing. You are NOT objective regardless what you CLAIM.

        So, now you are Searcher of Truth asking yourself leading questions that you want to use for planting your propaganda lies out there? Clever.

        “I could sit down with any one of you right now and we would have a good productive conversation about anything.”

        Not really (notice you didn’t say honest). It’s not possible to have a “good productive conversation” with a falsehood spreading propagandist. Such a claim is oxymoronic. Why not stick to your attempts at agitating and posting smiley faces. At least you do that well. Honest conversation? You? Hardly.

        Unlike you, I have no vested interest in this travesty, just want the truth out and the guilty punished by the judicial process, because I believe in Truth and Justice for all. I believe in America, The Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. Reading Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address still fills me with awe at its sheer majesty. Remember the Pledge of Allegiance? Remember your oath when you got the badge? Nah, I didn’t think so. How long ago did your conscience die? Can you remember? Do you remember what it was like to believe in something? I truly feel sad for you. Right now, there is a tear in the corner of my eye for the man you used to be.

        Incidentally, there is one thing we do agree on, but only because you gain nothing by lying on this one. You are not Jay Cincinelli. He’s not that bright. But, as someone pointed out, Chris? There is a connection of some sort. And, you personally benefit if they get off. Please go back to trolling and not insulting our collective intelligence. Trolling seems to be the most honest mode for you.

        Oh, and hey…

        Who loves ya,’ baby?

        You know the answer.

        Now go suck on your bottle like a good boy. Maybe you can numb the pain of losing your self with enough bottles.

          1. Shucks, Now you’re embarrassing me. Don’t agree with every post but always read your posts with interest. You’ve got my respect.

            Thumbs up ^^

        1. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

          Yes honest. 100%. Would wager any amount of money on it. I don’t care if someone gets charged or not. I just try to educate people on the other side. It works with most, some have no hope. 🙂

          Wow now I’m KT. I guess for some people life is just one big conspiracy. When things go bad it’s usually everyone else’s fault also.

          Yes I love you baby.

          🙂 🙂

    2. His name was Kelly, Kelly Thomas. He was a son, and a brother. He was a man, and on his good days he even knew who he was. He was a tortured mind and a tortured soul, but he had feelings, sometimes he was happy, sometimes he was sad, and unfortunately he often lived in fear. He was a person, and his body had life. He was a human being, not an object, or an animal, or just initials. At least give his memory that much respect.

  113. I THINK WE SHOULD START A FLOW CHART OF EVENTS IN KELLY’S CASE. BASE THE FLOW CHART ON THE THINGS THAT WE IMPORTANT IN ESTABLISHING PROBABLE CAUSE, TO THE ASSAULT ON KELLY TO THE FINALE. NAME THE PLAYERS IN THE SCENARIO AND WHAT EACH ONE DID TO EITHER AID CYCLOPS OR STOP HIM. IT WOULD BE EASIER TO TRACE THE FACTS IF THEY WERE LAID OUT IN FRONT OF US.

    1. I agree. You should. Base it on everything said in this blog. Have it all laid out, second by second. Then bring it to the DA.

    2. I THINK WE SHOULD START A FLOW CHART OF EVENTS IN KELLY’S CASE. BASE THE FLOW CHART ON THE THINGS THAT WE IMPORTANT IN ESTABLISHING PROBABLE CAUSE, TO THE ASSAULT ON KELLY TO THE FINALE. NAME THE PLAYERS IN THE SCENARIO AND WHAT EACH ONE DID TO EITHER AID CYCLOPS OR STOP HIM. IT WOULD BE EASIER TO TRACE THE FACTS IF THEY WERE LAID OUT IN FRONT OF US.

      Cool idea!

  114. Wow!!! Gotta wonder what really happened. With two officers on the scene, he’s busy punching one officer in the head, how in the hell did two officers allow him to go to his shopping cart and grab a metal bar. They must have been sleeping during their ‘Restraining 101’ class.

  115. I don’t think the Officers involved in this thing care what a blog like this says. If they are deriving information from a group of bloggers that want to kill them and see harm come to them and their families they are in a bad way. I don’t think it’s happening like you stated.

  116. Admin, can you please make a policy about not allowing multiple screen names? Then IP ban those who do. That will eliminate 90 percent of the trolls. They aren’t here to discuss anything. They’re only trying to clog the comment board and re-direct attention away from Kelly Thomas.

    If you IP ban them, they won’t be able to post with any of their aliases either. Well, unless of course they use a different computer to post comments. But having to go to a different computer at a different location each time they want to post here should be a good enough deterrent.

      1. Don’t troll me…

        Hum. That’s an idea come to think of it. We could rent a good sized fishing boat, hire six off duty cops who need a little cash, to have them knock you silly, wrap you in heavy gauge fishing line (or just a stout fishnet) with weights, and drag you behind the boat through shark infested waters…

        Trolling you? hum…8-)

  117. LOL nope. Just a normal guy from So Cal doing his thing.

    Fake names are fun 🙂 :
    So we’re certain that you are a guy? LOL. When you said yesterday that you arrested Rodney King once, I was almost going to say Stacy Koon is on this blog? Wouldn’t it be hilarious if you WERE connected to that trial? Not believing a word you say though. Very clever. I think in the end we’ll just find out you’re some IT guy in Virginia.

    1. This is going to be good when you finally take off the mask and reveal your true identity. As far as we know, you could just be a random guy recovering from surgery and bored as hell. Or you could be one of the cops involved in this and are smart as friggin hell. Or you could even work for the anti-recall effort. You are good. My hat’s off to you. Truly.

      1. True. Hard to tell. For sure not anti recall. I don’t care about politicians. Only thing I have said about them is that it seems like an outside agenda is pushing blame on council and mayor and city manager, when it should be focused on the police if there was wrong doing. Just my opinion, but there are so many things going on with outside agendas now attached to this case, it’s hard to know. I can see the juggling going on with politics, people here having desires for payback on current council and mayor, people here wanting having issues with police and government in Fullerton before and this is a chance for payback attached to Kelly, etc, etc, etc. A lot of behind the scenes games going on. I just try to focus on the facts of what happened and give my little point of view based on that. All in fun. 🙂

        1. I look at this in two ways. Either you are going to embarrass yourself or whatever cause you are working for (highly unlikely at this point, but hey, doesn’t hurt to ask) or you are going to be famous due to the number of media organizations that are smarter than me and don’t comment but see the dialog. Now personally, I believe in comment moderation on my own blog. I would have blocked you by now. Really though, I think that this is showing the power of a blog. We shall see.

          So let me ask you something. What do you feel is the biggest error in how this is playing out in the media?

          1. Why would you have blocked me? I thought you liked hearing from both sides on issues?

            I think the media has almost forgot about the case altogether. It needed a big name attached to it to keep it going. I haven’t heard a thing in the media about it in awhile. I’m sure John and Ken will bring it up each week, CNN maybe here and there, and then when the DA makes his announcement it will be big news again. Just seems like it’s strictly local city news for now, and the main people even talking about it anymore are people that don’t care what the facts are, they want the cops hung no matter what. You think the media has done a great job?

          2. I would have blocked you not because I don’t want to hear both sides of an issue. No way. As long as you’re not an asshole, fire away. And as long as you use your real name also, talk as long as you want. (I did make that rule recently because I feel that if you want to talk shit, put your first name down at least to make a stand.) I can also tell that you aren’t here to just speak your mind. This is going to make Tony famous. Maybe in a good way, maybe in a bad way. I think in a good way because Tony is saying that he values your voice.
            This is better than Facebook. 🙂 Hey, when the mask is stripped away, let’s chat. There may be 10 of you, but I don’t care. This will make for fun reading.

          3. Let me respond. 🙂 No. I don’t think the media has done a good job reporting this. I’ll admit that I felt funny when I wrote my first column on this-my personal interpretations of what is going on in the city I live in. Why? Because when I used the words (sorry, it’s late, so if I’m not exact I do apologize) that witnesses in tapes called it a beating (and believe me, I played that tape over and over and over again for CYA purposes.) I WANT to hear the other side. Hell, we all do. I’m even calling one of you back tomorrow. I know it’ll not be pretty once this thing goes live, but really, I’m not afraid. It’s nice that you guys are fighting back now. On here though? Oh hell. Why?

  118. EyeNeverSayNo, that’s true…they could use a proxy server. But that has drawbacks. It makes viewing webpages ludicrously slow sometimes. I have a FIOS connection (fiber optic), and I have used proxy servers. But even with my connection, a proxy server often causes webpages to take a long time to load.

    Also, he (Reality Is) would have to view this site through the proxy server every time he came here, if he wanted to get around the IP ban.

    So yeah, there might be ways around it. But at least it would be a good start. I can understand Tony not wanting to censor blog posts, but when it becomes obvious that someone is coming here for the sole purpose of creating problems and worse yet to insult Ron Thomas, then it’s time to step in.

    1. Hey. I’m not spewing garbage with 100 names, just my name. Don’t blame me! Just saying how I feel. My only issue the whole time with the dad is the separation, and now the closeness. I just look at them as two separate issues. I just shed a tear thinking you might block me. 🙁

      1. Boy, finally, you made one accurate statement that I can support you on!!

        You stated “…I’m not spewing garbage with 100 names, just my name.” SO TRUE!! You spewing garbage with even just ONE name is MORE than sufficient!!

    2. I think something is odd about (Reality Is) now. “His” entire language, tone, grammar, sentence structure has changed from other posts on almost every blog. It’s creepy. Can you tell if there are two different IP addresses using this name?

        1. I don’t buy you only use one internet name, don’t think you are ALL the trolls either. You either have a team, or are a member of a crew. imo you are not a solo.

          Have read MANY of your posts, and do believe you that you are still the same jerk as before (though you’ve given me little reason for trust, frankly, I don’t want to eliminate you just because I dislike you). So far Tony’s handling this better than I’d have done.

          Don’t care who you actually are when you “come out,” ’cause this isn’t about you, or Tony, or anyone else here. It is about 6 out of control police officers responsible for protecting the weak, who brutally and remorselessly deprived a helpless homeless mentally ill guy of his Right to Life.

          It is about justice for Kelly and his surviving family. Gandhi once said, “I hold that the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man.” I agree with the spirit of that. Humans are creatures too.

          You can tell a lot about a people by how they treat their weakest members, animals, children, homeless, poor, mentally ill. If we allow the murder of Kelly to go unaddressed we are exposing large ugly flaws in our selves and our culture.

          Those six officers cast aside their very humanity. Will we condone their actions by letting them get away with it? Or will we grab this opportunity as a people to make some long overdue changes in our society?

          In my opinion it is necessary for the betterment of Fullerton as a community and America as a whole to make an example of the FPD 6 to all the violent police who violate their oaths and disgrace their badges. In the process the 6 will receive justice also.

          Being a cop isn’t easy. No one ever said it would be. It carries responsibility with that power. I respect the Law and would like to continue respecting the police. They need to remember they aren’t just here to protect each other, but us as well, and that includes the Kelly Thomases.

          Just my 4 cents (2+2)

          1. Well said, Xer. I think we WILL know who it is though when the masked man reveals his true identity. It’s all a plan, a clever plan. Rome fell from within, after all…….

          2. Solo sir.

            How would you have handled it? You mean the Kelly case?

            I agree. Wrong doing deserves prosecution.

            Well said. You said your two cents well and I like your open mind at least. Not that you care what I think. LOL

  119. …I meant to say that he would have to come to this site through the proxy server every time he wanted to POST a comment. He could of course view the website, but he wouldn’t be able to post comments with an IP ban, if he was using the same IP address.

    1. Yea that’s a great case to research too. Huge defense on that one and he got off. The blown up video is interesting. i went to a class on that whole case. Same attorney is representing the guys on this case if it goes to court.

      1. WASN’T MUCH OF A VERBAL ANYTHING.
        Airman shooting focus: Perceptions of sheriff’s deputies often vary
        By Kenneth Todd Ruiz, Staff Writer
        Posted: 02/08/2006 12:00:00 AM PST

        Sheriff’s deputies in San Bernardino County are considerate professionals. Or trigger-happy mavericks. Or just men and women doing their best at a difficult and dangerous job.
        Photo Galleries:
        • Shooting victim’s family speaks
        • Airman shot in Chino by Sheriff Deputy
        Related Articles:
        • Man who videotaped Airman’s shooting posts $100,000 bail
        • Police arrest man who taped shooting
        • Deputy who shot airman scrutinized in 2000 lawsuit
        • Airman’s driver: “I am responsible”
        • Chino police footage still open to interpretation
        • FBI begins probe of U.S. airman’s shooting in Chino
        • Airman shot by sheriff’s deputy stable, wife says

        It all depends on whom you talk to.

        The relationship between law enforcement officers and the public they are sworn to protect can become complicated by incidents that bring officers into scrutiny, such as the shooting of Elio Carrion in Chino last week.

        Lyndie Stuard of Rialto said she is concerned about the possibility of deputies patrolling her community. Rialto City Council voted in September to replace its police department with sheriff’s services.

        “Sometimes, they seem like they think it’s the Old West, but this is Rialto,” she said. “We have jobs, we work, but they treat everyone like criminals.”

        Sheriff’s spokeswoman Jody Miller says, however, that community residents should be reassured that deputies are looking out for their safety.

        “It’s important for people within the communities to feel a level of security and protection,” she said. “Obviously, we would like the residents within that community to take security in knowing the deputies go out every day on their job with the goal in mind to protect people from harm.”

        Richard Rodriguez of Bloomington agrees with that and says deputies are “just doing their jobs” and have to think about their safety.

        But, in the eyes of his friend Madeleine Cano, also of Bloomington, deputies frequently engage in harassment and racial profiling.

        “They just like to harass people, especially the Mexicans,” she said. “Look at what happened to that poor guy in Chino.”

        One sheriff’s deputy, who asked not to be identified, said his already perilous job is made more difficult by a distrustful public.

        “People out on the streets are so scared of sheriffs right now,” he said. The shooting of Carrion, who was unarmed, could make criminals more violent toward officers, he said.

        “They’re probably going to try to shoot us when they normally wouldn’t have tried,” the deputy said.

        Jim Erwin, a spokesman for the deputies’ union, the San Bernardino County Safety Employees Benefit Association, said it doesn’t make a difference.

        “You can’t be thinking that way,” he said. “Felons know what they’re going to do … deputies only react to the circumstances.”

        Miller also pointed to the department’s mission of serving the community. From finger-printing children to raising money for charities, the department wants concerned residents to know deputies do more than enforce the law, Miller said.

        She said that mission is reinforced by Sheriff Gary Penrod himself and is drilled into trainees.

        Patrolling the country’s largest county can be demanding for deputies.

        Erwin, who was in the department for 15 years, said officers are often on their own and far from help.

        “You’re it,” he said. “In most cases, you’re going to be by yourself.”

        Even at night, Erwin said, deputies work alone and backup can be 45 minutes away.

        Because of this autonomy, deputies must be independent and ready to resolve situations on their own, he said.

        “You’re required to make split-second decisions,” he said. “Routinely, you walk into open doors, unlocked doors with a flashlight and your gun out. You’re by yourself. You’re doing the job.”

        Erwin said any concerns in the community are “unfounded.” Although the shooting of Carrion would “be judged on its own merits,” he said the community need look only as far as the department’s record.

        He said it’s been more than 15 years since the department dealt with significant controversy over an officer-involved shooting, and that any rifts with the community would heal in time.

        But some say the department has a troubling pattern.

        A lawyer who has handled cases of police misconduct in San Bernardino County said the department has “a reputation for using a lot of force.”

        “There’s several examples of them using force at the ends of pursuits,” said John Burton, who practices law in Pasadena. “They also have an example of hurting people in their custody.”

        Burton has represented the family of a man shot to death in 2004 by a Fontana police officer and a man injured at West Valley Detention Center in 2000. Sheriff’s deputies act as corrections officers in the facility.

        Ivory John Webb, the deputy who shot Carrion at the end of a high-speed chase last week, was one of seven deputies named in an unsuccessful lawsuit Burton filed over the 2000 incident.

        “There’s an `us-against-them’ mentality with the police, that anything is OK in the name of officer safety, and that’s really not all right, because they need to respect the rights of people they’re dealing with.”

        Miller said the department is working to address concerns in the community regarding Carrion’s shooting.

        “There is an investigation pending, and it’s of the utmost importance that clarification be given to the questions that are out there,” she said.

        But even some within the department are skeptical the investigation will placate the community.

        The threat of a civil lawsuit, said the anonymous deputy, would deter the county from making a good-faith effort to investigate the shooting.

        “All shootings in San Bernardino County are `good’ shootings, because if the department admits fault, that means the difference between paying out $5 million or $50 million,” the deputy said.

        The San Bernardino County District Attorney’s Office has not filed charges against any on-duty officer involved in a shooting in at least 30 years.

        Kenneth Todd Ruiz can be reached by e-mail at [email protected] or by phone at (909) 483-8555.

        Read more: http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_3485620#ixzz1WTXQbGF3

        1. You could almost replace all the Sheriffs names with Fullerton and re write the article today for the Kelly case. People on both sides waiting on the case to play out both criminally and civilly.

    1. Oh, so you ADMIT that you are “spewing garbage,” Good for you!!!! A small step for Reality Is in the right direction.

  120. I see. Yea I said that before. Most sites or blogs seem to require Facebook accounts to reply these days. More real names. Fake accounts can still be made but not as easy.

    Time will tell about Tony.

    Sounds good. 🙂

    Fake names are fun 🙂 :
    I would have blocked you not because I don’t want to hear both sides of an issue. No way. As long as you’re not an asshole, fire away. And as long as you use your real name also, talk as long as you want. (I did make that rule recently because I feel that if you want to talk shit, put your first name down at least to make a stand.) I can also tell that you aren’t here to just speak your mind. This is going to make Tony famous. Maybe in a good way, maybe in a bad way. I think in a good way because Tony is saying that he values your voice.
    This is better than Facebook. Hey, when the mask is stripped away, let’s chat. There may be 10 of you, but I don’t care. This will make for fun reading.

    1. He will be smeared from sun up to sun down. No doubt of that. No one wants to go out with Kelly Thomas as their legacy.

      People will know though…..People will know.

  121. GOOD NEWS GANG. MICHAEL GENNACO GAVE ME PERMISSION TO PUBLISH HIS EMAIL ADDRESS SET UP FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF THE FULLERTON PD. IF YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT KELLY’S CASE OR ANY OTHER LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCE AGAINST FULLERTON PD YOU MAY CONTACT HIM HERE:

    [email protected]. BE ON TOPIC WITH COMPLAINTS AND DON’T EMBELLISH!

    FOR LASD COMPLAINTS:[email protected]

  122. NOt sure, where’s he been? Or did you mean Reality Is? By the way, cool on the Micheal Gennaco e-mail address.

  123. I wish to concur with my college Dr. Ott. Most likely the absence of non-auto erotic gratification.

  124. Chino police footage still open to interpretation
    By Ian Gregor, Associated Press
    Posted: 02/02/2006 12:00:00 AM PST

    LOS ANGELES – The image on the grainy home video is both sensational and disturbing: A sheriff’s deputy shoots a man who appears to be unarmed and obeying his orders.
    Photo Gallery: Airman shot in Chino by Sheriff Deputy

    Related Articles:
    • FBI begins probe of U.S. airman’s shooting in Chino
    • Airman shot by sheriff’s deputy stable, wife says

    But experts say it remains unclear whether the video tells the entire story of what transpired this week in Chino after a high-speed car chase. Videos, they say, often end up raising more questions than they answer.

    “They’re drenched with caveats,” said Eugene O’Donnell, a professor of police studies at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York.

    “One thing we’ve learned about videos is there are often missing pieces before and after,” added O’Donnell, a former New York police officer and prosecutor. “The quality of the video is often problematic, and the sound doesn’t pick up relevant issues and can actually distort things.”

    In the Chino shooting, a San Bernardino County deputy appears in a 40-second home video to order 21-year-old Elio Carrion to his feet, then shoots him as he tries to stand. Carrion, an Air Force security officer just back from Iraq, underwent surgery for wounds to his chest, ribs and leg.

    Carrion was a passenger in a Corvette whose driver led the deputy on a short car chase at speeds of up to 100 mph Sunday night. The FBI was investigating possible civil rights violations in the shooting.

    The impact of videos became clear in March 1991 after images of Los Angeles police officers beating motorist Rodney King were beamed into living rooms worldwide. Since then, videos have captured a number of incidents, some involving white police officers and black suspects.

    Such footage includes a police officer in Inglewood slamming the face of a handcuffed 16-year-old boy onto the hood of a police car in July 2002; the death in 2003 of a 350-pound man after Cincinnati officers hit him repeatedly with nightsticks; and the beating by police of a retired teacher in the French Quarter of New Orleans shortly after Hurricane Katrina.

    Law enforcement agencies also recognize the potential importance of video. Departments throughout the country are installing cameras in police cruisers to protect officers against false allegations.

    But images captured on tape are open to wide interpretation.

    Los Angeles exploded in rioting in April 1992 after a Superior Court jury acquitted four LAPD officers of criminal charges in connection with the King beating. The violence resulted in 55 deaths, nearly 2,400 injuries and about $1 billion in damage. Two of the officers were later found guilty of federal civil rights charges.

    In Cincinnati, a police watchdog agency found officers used excessive force against Nathaniel Jones in November 2003, but a prosecutor concluded they were lawfully defending themselves when Jones began swinging at them as they tried to handcuff him in the parking lot of a fast-food restaurant.

    Two juries deadlocked in the criminal trial of Inglewood police officer Jeremy Morse, who was accused of assaulting 16-year-old Donovan Jackson.

    In New Orleans, two police officers were fired and another suspended following the beating of 64-year-old Robert Davis an incident photographed and videotaped by The Associated Press. The officers’ attorney said the video didn’t tell the whole story of the confrontation.

    Morse’s attorney argued the same thing, claiming his client slammed Jackson down after the boy grabbed the officer’s testicles and refused to let go.

    “That wasn’t captured on this film angle,” said attorney John Barnett, who defended Morse and one of the officers in the King beating.

    “We have learned over the last 10 or 15 years that images captured on film show only a very small part of an event.”

    Similarly, San Bernardino County sheriff’s officials caution that the video of the Chino shooting is grainy and the audio is at times unclear. They have asked the FBI to do a forensic analysis of the tape to determine what was said by whom and at what time, sheriff’s spokeswoman Cindy Beavers said.

    “The average person is going to say, “Oh my God, the cops screwed up again. They stepped over the line, they’re guilty of misconduct,'” Earl Ofari Hutchinson, a Los Angeles author and political analyst, said of the incident.

    “But we would really need to know more than just this videotape,” he said.

    Read more: http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_3466502#ixzz1WTXmjdJN

    1. Wow I hadn’t seen anything on this yet. I see the date on the article. Do you know when this decision was handed down?

      1. Friday August 26th, 2011. If you click on the link in the article it will take you to the actual written decision which is 24 pages long in PDF. As you have so eloquently pointed out in your previous posts, the doors of justice should swing both ways, and a video could also help to determine the innocence of an honest officer perhaps accused of wrongdoing by a citizen.

    2. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT. NO ONE HAS AN EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY IN A PUBLIC PLACE, INCLUDING COPS OR PUBLIC OFFICIALS!

    3. Widespread video use helps protect both police and citizens from unfounded accusations while offering greater transparency to us all.

      That’s what I’ve said before. Problem is police only want THEIR video version to exist, which THEY control and we only get to see if THEY allow it. This was a great ruling. Gotta love the ol’ Three Branches of Government System our Founders dreamt up. Those guys were real geniuses.

      You folks really come up with some great links. Thanks.

  125. Hey Reality Is, could you please stop posting those girly smiley faces? PLeeeease….. Sorry girls, no offense.

    1. Can’t help it. He/she is a cadet in the Fullerton Police Academy. So far he/she hasn’t been able to get over the wall on the obstacle course. Of course that never stopped Goodwrench. Hope springs eternal!

  126. Cool. I’m all good. Would be nice if cops never had to use any force at all and all contacts were positive, but reality is that will never happen.

    fedupwithmorons :
    YO, REALITY, I AM NOT ANTI- COP AT ALL. I HATE BAD COPS WHO GIVE THE PROFESSION A BAD NAME. SO, IF YOU’RE ONE OF THE BAD LET US KNOW.

    1. I’m impressed with the internet sleuthing that went down in this thread.

      There is definitely more than one person posting as Reality “IS” . At least two for sure. I’ve seen this type of tag team posting happen on other forums.

      Happens when a group is targeting one individual and have a common goal. Here, their goal is to play devil’s advocate in favor of the FPD6 and by extension, the Fullerton city officials.

      Our suspicions would deduce probably a cops wife and kid if the same ISP is being used. Maybe a couple of the wives if not.

      I hope I’m wrong but I think its bigger than that.

      You’ve noticed the banter back and forth that new names have with Reality IS and others conjecturing the legality of certain aspects of police procedure.

      Then others commenting why these new “witnesses” are valid and should be given credence. In the other blog, someone mentioned the hispanic “witness” as possibly being a parolee trying to gain favor by painting the cops in a better light than previous witnesses have. That was an interesting angle and it may be right.

      As someone said, “PSYOPS”, psychological operations, are definitely underway here. If they can convince some of the public that Kelly brought it on himself and create doubt in the mind of the public it’ll set the stage for acceptance when they let these guys off the hook.

      That is exactly their goal.

      But its really nothing new. It’s just an amateurish attempt at propaganda.

      1. I said I made a post with another name awhile back when I tried to post and it wouldn’t let me. I thought I was blocked.

        I’ll wager any amount of money anyone wants that my exchange last night and any other time was legit and not staged and not from the same ISP. I’ll put my balls on it.

        I haven’t heard the parolee story.

        I had no clue what psyops was. I asked. I was told it was one eye for Jay C. Lol. 🙂

        1. I’ll put my balls on it.

          Oh, man! Wait! Leave ’em on the edge of the table and let me go get the cleaver.

          heheheh 😎

  127. Thank you! I said there was psyops going on here! Glad someone else sees it too! Xer you are a jackass!

    1. Fedupwithmorons on August 29, 2011
      Thank you! I said there was psyops going on here! Glad someone else sees it too! Xer you are a jackass!

      Back at’cha, birdbrain. All I’ve ever said about psyops is this:

      Xer :
      Fedup. You’re just hacked ’cause I said Merijoe is not a ding bat. :-p
      Don’t need to look up psyops, and we don’t disagree that [it] seems to be leaving amateurish tracks in the mud around here.
      As for Freud, he was the “Father of Psychoanalysis,” but we can chat about all that another time and place.

      Peace?

      LEARN TO READ!

  128. In Towner :
    Can’t help it. He/she is a cadet in the Fullerton Police Academy. So far he/she hasn’t been able to get over the wall on the obstacle course. Of course that never stopped Goodwrench. Hope springs eternal!

    YOU guys were ROCKIN’ on these…Thanks for taking care of things whilst I was away.

  129. LAS VEGAS — A former employee of the Clark County School District Police Department alleges that top officials in the department instituted a coverup regarding officers drinking with teenagers at a wild party that ended in tragedy.

    Former police dispatcher Penny Higgins says most department personnel are aghast that a coverup was initiated following a 2009 fatal DUI. Several sources say that school police officials are still trying to keep a lid on what happened at the party.

    “Why has this been a coverup all this time?” said Linda Peterson. “I think it’s a coverup.”

    Frank and Linda Peterson are wracked by pain and disgust. The pain comes from the November 2009 death of their only daughter, Angela, at the hands of 18-year-old drunk driver Kevin Miranda.

    But they are disgusted at the Clark County School District Police Department, because several members of that department were partying with Miranda for hours prior to the fatal crash.

    Peterson’s attorney Marc Cook finds it creepy that school cops were boozing it up, not only with Miranda, but with more than 20 other school age kids.

    “These are the people they have authority over. It wouldn’t be more comfortable if classroom teachers got together and drank with students. This is worse,” said Cook.

    An internal investigation by the school police failed to find a single witness who could remember seeing Miranda drinking with district employees, even though the party was held at the home of police dispatcher Rebecca Wamsley, and Wamsley’s insurance company paid the maximum settlement because Miranda was provided booze at the home.

    But now, a witness has come forward.

    “I thought it would be an adult party. That’s what the flyer implied. We would have Thanksgiving dinner and then we are going to have a party afterwards and yeah, there would be beer pong and drinking,” said Penny Higgins.

    Higgins was a dispatcher for the school police in 2009 and remembers seeing this flyer for Wamsley’s holiday party posted inside the department. It was also sent out via department email.

    But she had no idea the party for police employees would coincide with a birthday party for Wamsley’s 17-year-old daughter until teenagers started showing up, helping themselves to booze set up on tables inside Wamsley’s garage.

    “They started drinking. They were getting into hard alcohol. We had several teenagers ask us if we could move so they could get into a beer cooler behind,” said Higgins.

    Higgins says it would be impossible for any of her police department co-workers to have missed seeing the teenagers drinking.

    “There is no way, not unless they were blind,” she said.

    Police dispatcher Tina Zuniga, whose Facebook photo showed her at a bar drinking a margarita, was at a table, Higgins says, drinking with her 16-year-old daughter Marissa and Marissa’s boyfriend, Kevin Miranda. Higgins also saw Miranda playing beer pong with adults. Higgins and her date decided to leave.

    “We were a little uncomfortable,” she said. “Because of the kids drinking, you know. At about 10, I’m like, ‘They’re going to get raided by Metro any time now because there were 20 kids in the driveway. That’s where all the kids went. They were all lined up out in the driveway, then coming into the garage to get their drinks and going back outside… I said, ‘Yeah, there’s going to be a lot of officers and dispatchers going down cause that is bad.'”

    When the news broke the next day about a drunken Miranda killing Angela Peterson, the coverup began, Higgins says. Back at work, she was called into the office of Dispatch Supervisor Mondo Quintanella.

    “He goes, ‘You didn’t see any of the kids drinking, did you?’ and I said, ‘Yeah, I did.’ And he said, ‘No you didn’t,’ and I said, ‘Yeah, I did.’ And he said, ‘No you didn’t,'” she said. “He said we need to put this in a good light. He said, ‘You left early so you didn’t see much and you won’t have anything to say.’ He said, ‘We need to protect Rebecca. We don’t want anything to happen to her.’ And I said, ‘If I get called into IA, I’m not lying.'”

    Next, Higgins says she was visited by her immediate supervisor, Sgt. Brian Nebecker.

    “He said, ‘You didn’t see anything, did you?’ And I said, ‘Yeah.’ He said, ‘You saw kids drinking?’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ He said, ‘No, you didn’t see anything, did you?’ and I was like, ‘Yeah.’ And he got closer and he said, ‘You didn’t see anything, did you?'” she said.

    Higgins and another dispatcher both refused to change their stories, and they were the only persons from the party who were not interviewed by internal affairs. All of those who were interviewed said they didn’t see any kids drinking.

    Higgins says she is not surprised by the memo sent out last week by CCSD Police Chief Phil Arroyo that called the allegations “fairytales.” Arroyo has reportedly told employees who were at the party that this will all blow over soon and no one needs to worry. Higgins hopes that is not the case.

    “I hope that all those who swept this under the rug have to answer for it, and I also hope they have to go to that girl’s parents and say they are sorry. They hid it. How wrong is that?” she said.

    Higgins has just been interviewed by Las Vegas police detectives who are looking into the issues surrounding this case. And another witness, Kevin Miranda, now publicly backs Higgins story. In an exclusive interview with 8 News NOW Reporter Melissa Duran, Miranda said he and the other teens were allowed to drink all they wanted, adding that he too was never questioned by internal affairs about the party or who was there.

    Contrary to what Chief Arroyo has told his inner circle, this story is not going away anytime soon. It appears to be growing in several directions.

  130. I’m glad you guys are talking. I have a question for you all or maybe one of you. I did some research today and saw something to the effect of the camera that caught everything is so damn good that you could catch a speck of dirt on the ground. Is this true or did I get bogus information?

    1. Kim,

      Don’t know anything about the type of security camera Fullerton uses, but B&W HD resolution can be pretty darned impressive. Any HD is pretty impressive nowadays. Technology just keeps getting better.

      Honest to gosh, watching that video will be physically painful, but I really look forward to seeing the truth finally come out.

      You kids play nice now, hear? I’m an old man and have been missing my ‘beauty rest’ lately to stay up with you. Gotta get some sleep tonight.

      Have fun.

    2. Just like any system, if you have that zoom ability and are focusing directly in on something, yes. But if it’s a camera just monitoring an area it wouldn’t be set like that. Plus this area if you pan to the right has the trees and poles. I’m sure you will see the entire video soon enough.

  131. Good for you. Believe me, the other side wants to speak and tell their story but they can’t. Not until this is all resolved. I don’t think anyone in their right mind would talk right now. Would only lead to more open interpretation. That all needs to be saved for the courtroom. Good luck tomorrow with the interview.

    Kim :
    Let me respond. No. I don’t think the media has done a good job reporting this. I’ll admit that I felt funny when I wrote my first column on this-my personal interpretations of what is going on in the city I live in. Why? Because when I used the words (sorry, it’s late, so if I’m not exact I do apologize) that witnesses in tapes called it a beating (and believe me, I played that tape over and over and over again for CYA purposes.) I WANT to hear the other side. Hell, we all do. I’m even calling one of you back tomorrow. I know it’ll not be pretty once this thing goes live, but really, I’m not afraid. It’s nice that you guys are fighting back now. On here though? Oh hell. Why?

  132. Funny thing is I don’t see many of them on here except me. A few loud mouths but other than that, just a few.

    Kim :
    I think they listened to me and dropped the tough guy attitude. I’m glad.

  133. I think we all think we all speak the truth. At least we all try to, I mean all of us on here. I don’t hold much back either. I just try to take in other people’s opinions as well.

    Kim :
    I may be a little crazy but I speak the truth.

    1. Which is good. Hey, question for you. I’m doing a ride along with the Fullerton PD this week for an article and know damn good and well you guys (I may be right, I may be wrong here about my hunch)will be nice, professional, etc. That won’t be the focus of my article. I’m thinking of a zillion different ideas and thank you for telling me about the bill of rights.
      What would be, in your opinion, an interesting topic of an article for talking about a ride along and the PD? I have my own opinions and may not use your idea-heck, probably not, but I’m just curious what you think.

      1. Have you been on a ride along before? I’m sure in this era with all that is going on in Fullerton they will be very nice to you and nothing but professional. Sad thing is with the tone of things, you probably won’t get someone to be so open about the job, etc as you normally would. Oh well. You will have fun I’m sure. I wouldn’t be surprised if you they put you with a Sergeant either.

        I guess it depends on the officer and the openness. I’ve had numerous reporters with me and they have always done good pieces because we can talk about anything and everything. A great topic in Fullerton at this point in time could be use of force, just not sure how far you will get. I’ve been wanting to do a scenario script on this blog to see what people say they would do in certain situations. I could just imagine what some people would say. Actual policy for use of force, taser, baton, pepper spray, bean bag, rifle, shotgun, handgun, verbal versus situations where someone yells at you, spits at you, clenches fists and threatens you, runs from you, has a knife, lunges with a knife, knife to the throat of a spouse, gun in hand, gun firing in the air, etc, etc, etc. Scenario play with anti police people can be very interesting sometimes and I’ve put several through actual simulators and they come out with a whole new concept of police work.

        Anyways, I’m rambling. Have fun.

  134. Wow Kim, interesting about your ride-a-long with L.A. County Sheriff’s in ’98. Do you recall the date? Because on September 1st, ’98 I was “set-up” on a violation of a restraining order by my ex and a deputy. When I was arrested, there was a young brunette in the cruiser I was placed in. Just wondering if that was you. This took place in La Mirada. By the way Kim, YOU GIVE GREAT POSTS!!!
    Keep a postin’.

  135. Kim :
    Which is good. Hey, question for you. I’m doing a ride along with the Fullerton PD this week for an article and know damn good and well you guys (I may be right, I may be wrong here about my hunch)will be nice, professional, etc. That won’t be the focus of my article. I’m thinking of a zillion different ideas and thank you for telling me about the bill of rights.
    What would be, in your opinion, an interesting topic of an article for talking about a ride along and the PD? I have my own opinions and may not use your idea-heck, probably not, but I’m just curious what you think.

    Kim, I suggest you ask the officers you ride with this week if they were present with the other 6, would they have jumped in and stopped the other officers from that “baboon-type” mugging on Kelly Thomas. I’m interested in the various responses to that question.

  136. KIM, ASK THESE CLOWNS QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THEY VIEW OFFICERS, THAT GET BUSTED FOR PEDOPHILIA, PORN, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, DUI AND WHAT DO THEY FEEL LIKE WHEN ONE OF THEIR OWN GETS CONVICTED OF THESE CRIMES,

  137. Monday, August 29, 2011

    POLICE REVIEW: Young citizen Board in grip of growing pains
    Like Congress and the courts, this quasi-judicial body must have rules and procedures that steel it for the long haul

    COLUMBIA, 8/29/11 (Op-Ed) — When a black man wearing a Ku Klux Klan hood tells an entire room of people at City Hall to “F-off” after a contentious encounter with a citizen commissioner, you know you’re in for an interesting evening.

    Last Wednesday night saw one of many forces that would tear asunder the Columbia Citizens Police Review Board (CPRB), in this case a white-hooded Marlon Jordan, demanding the board be disbanded in favor of something separate from city government.

    Mr. Jordan would probably say the Klan getup is an ironic protest against white injustice. I’m all for irony, and I protest white injustice almost every time I write this newsletter.

    But as the quasi-judicial body it represents, the CPRB shouldn’t have to stand for such abuse. When its chairman politely asked Mr. Jordan to remove his offensive signs from the front of the room, he should have done so pronto. Instead, Jordan got the last F-word — many times.

    Following Mr. Jordan, 70-year-old Bill Easley verbally ripped into board members, with testimony so loud and shrill it set the entire room on edge. As Mr. Easley heaped condemnation and scorn on the citizen volunteers, nervous giggles and uneasy squirming skittered around the room.

    It was another unfortunate demonstration of forces that can tear at a body charged with an important yet delicate task: adjudicating claims against a police department, in this case one with a history many citizens consider checkered, and a lackluster reputation across many walks of city life.

    Angry people who disdain police aren’t the only forces that would diminish this pivotal committee. The police chief himself has presented challenges and compromises that could weaken the Board’s resolve and its public mandate.

    As a rough framework for CPRB activity, some of Columbia police chief Ken Burton’s suggestions make sense. But as the finishing touches on the two-year-old citizen commission’s policies and procedures, many of Burton’s proposed changes would reduce the citizen police oversight Columbia has resoundingly approved.

    A group, effectively, of administrative law judges, CPRB must remain politically and procedurally independent of both the City Council and city staff, which includes the police. Board independence is top of the list for CPRB supporters, but a low priority for Chief Burton, who is suggesting City Council members revisit the ordinance that governs the Board.

    Any necessary ordinance amendments should be minimized. Changes to the structure or function of CPRB should come — after due consideration of stakeholder voices — from Board members themselves. Wrangling the City Council back into the debate only opens the entire Board concept back up to review.

    Chief among functional changes Board members should consider are strict procedural rules, similar to those adopted by courts around the nation. These rules should spell out who has standing to file a case; the definition of an “actionable offense”; mandatory timelines; and so forth.

    The ordinance establishing the board contains this express provision: “The board may establish rules and procedures that do not conflict with this code or the rules and regulations governing internal affairs investigations.” More importantly, rules and procedures will help “steel” the Board against claims of inequity, unfairness — and illegitimacy — on both sides of a claim.

    Fictional Harvard Law professor Charles Kingsfield might have said it best to a beleaguered student in “The Paper Chase.” His directive went something like this: “You, Mr. Hart, will be charged with finding justice, no matter how tortuous your roadmap. You will accept that charge with the law as your guide, rules and procedures as the ground beneath your feet.”

    Rule adoption is tops on Chief Burton’s wish list, and it should happen posthaste as a critical part of the Board’s all-important operational framework.

    Like most court and Congressional hearings, CPRB proceedings must be open; the Board must have subpoena power; and witnesses from both sides need to be available for on-the-record examination. These areas appear to be sticking points for the police department, but as a judicial body much like the Congress when it investigates the military, the CPRB has to have such powers.

    At the same time, judicial bodies allow challenges if proper procedures are followed, so in its Rules of Procedure, CPRB should define under what conditions challenges to its authority may be made. Judicial bodies also allow for strictly-confidential mediations, during which both sides mediate their claims privately. CPRB may also benefit from offering this alternative in select cases.

    Finally, Section 21-48 of the enabling ordinance mandates police procedure training for CPRB members. Chief Burton wants additional training. Though members of an administrative law panel should understand the culture and practices of the organization(s) they oversee, CPRB members should be PAID to undertake any additional training and it should be voluntary. It’s not fair to create an all-volunteer group and then add non-voluntary requirements.

    At Wednesday night’s meeting, these concepts appeared muddy and ill-defined, leaving them open to challenge by all sides.

    Once the dust settles, Columbia might consider a second citizen’s review board, to examine crazy court decisions that let violent offenders “bond out” of jail and onto the streets, do jail time at home, or engage in other whacky alternatives to true justice. Maybe this new commission could look at what’s bringing all these robberies to town. Maybe it could figure out how to stop landlords from renting to chronic criminals.

    Maybe it could start a real conversation about how to reduce crime in Columbia, one that doesn’t rely on old racial stereotypes and dishonest propaganda. One that aims to reduce the stress police officers experience on the streets, and citizens encounter whenever crime comes home.

    Call it the Columbia Citizens Criminal Review Board.

    After all, if keeping an eye on cops is a good idea, keeping an eye on crooks should be, too.

  138. We are winning! I dare to say, we have won this fight. With the precedents in Illinois, Massachusetts and Maryland – I hope this means that at least courts won’t even take seriously any further complaints. Still, this month in Mass., an officer filed charges on a 2 year old case where Tyrisha Greene filmed his brutality on Melvin Jones III.

    http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/08/videographer_of_alleged_melvin.html

    Had he waited 2 weeks, he would have found that the Mass. federal district court is likely to laugh in his face.

    Roundup:

    The Tiawanda Moore/Illinois – ‘obscure wiretapping charge’ case adjudicated/she was acquitted LAST WEEK—

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-eavesdropping-trial-0825-20110825,0,905958.story
    “…a Criminal Court jury quickly repudiated the prosecution’s case, taking
    less than an hour to acquit Moore on both eavesdropping counts….The case offered a rare glimpse into the behind-the-scenes work of
    Chicago police’s internal affairs division, which investigates
    complaints by the public of wrongdoing by rank-and-file officers. And it turned out to be an unflattering look….”

    ALSO – last week:

    Glik v. Cunniffee/Massachusetts case of bystander recording an arrest being then arrested for doing so:

    http://www.citmedialaw.org/blog/2011/victory-recording-public
    “in the First Circuit . . . this First Amendment right publicly to
    record the activities of police officers on public business is
    established.”

    read the ‘choice quotes’ from the ruling in above link and here too:

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110827/23285615713/appeals-court-arresting-guy-filming-cops-was-clear-violation-both-1st-4th-amendments.shtml
    and

    http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/4274274-Court-upholds-citizens-right-to-film-cops/
    “A citizen’s right to film government officials, including law
    enforcement officers, in the discharge of their duties in a public space is a basic, vital, and well-established liberty safeguarded by the
    First Amendment,” the decision said.

    LAST MONTH – our Cop Block friends in Massachusetts won too:
    http://www.pixiq.com/article/cop-block-founders-not-guilty-on-wiretapping-charges

    LAST YEAR:
    Graber’s victory in Maryland/the motorcycle helmet video guy that got
    arrested for taping…the Maryland AG ruled in Graber’s favor,
    then the judge dismissed it/acquitting Graber:
    http://www.aclu-md.org/aPress/Press2010/092710_Graber.html

    Here’s the year+ old article that has a roundup of all the key cases around the US:
    http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/are-cameras-the-new-guns/

    CHRISTOPHER DREW, the Chicago artist (Illinois)–still awaiting outcome as mentioned in the Tribune article above.

    MICHAEL HYDE-which went to the Mass. Supreme Ct. in 2001-he lost – this has been the basis for police thinking they could get away with this. All this new court precedent seems to be overturning this long-ago bad decision.
    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ma-supreme-judicial-court/1330122.html

    Debbie Russell,
    member, SMD2, Del Valle ISD Board of Trustees
    volunteer, American Civil Liberties Union – Texas
    vice president, Austin Center for Peace & Justice
    board member, Better Austin Today
    512.573.6194

    FREE RODNEY REED!
    “Violence by government, as in all other relations, is a confession of failure. “

  139. Civilian Review Principles-Page 1 of 1
    GUIDING PRINCIPLES FOR POLICE OVERSIGHT REFORM (draft)
    By Michael Friedman
    1) Police are accountable to the residents they serve.
    To demand that police be held accountable to the law does not make one “anti-police”. Rather, it
    stems from a democratic understanding that all government workers are employees of all the
    people, and that no one is above the law.
    Opponents of police oversight often emphasize the special dangers of police work. Though other
    professions, in fact, are statistically more dangerous than that of a police officer (e.g.
    meatpacker), one cannot deny the intuitive understanding that police work can be very risky, and
    that some will even confront situations where their lives are put at risk. However, that is not a
    valid argument against strong police oversight as the laws that govern what police may or may
    not do are written by a legislature fully aware of the risks and dangers inherent in the job.
    Many police officers carry the perception that their foremost obligation is to defend each other
    (even if defending illegal conduct in the process) rather than to serve the residents they are
    assigned to protect or the laws they are sworn to uphold. It is imperative that a new system of
    police oversight provides incentive for individual officers themselves to help weed out those who
    do not consider police accountable to the community and to the law.
    2) When police break the law, one cannot call 911; the need for strong, effective,
    oversight is more critical than for other professions.
    Society does not tolerate ineffective or corrupt work when public safety is at stake. It would be
    inconsistent and irresponsible for government to be less stringent about police, given their rights
    to carry and use not only hurtful weapons (mace, batons, etc.), but lethal ones as well.
    Just as police cannot be called on to arrest police, city attorneys cannot be depended on to
    prosecute police misconduct. The close working relationship is one reason; another might be that
    the same attorney who prosecutes a police officer could be needed to defend him against a civil
    suit, an obvious conflict. There is no precedent anywhere in the country of police illegalities
    being routinely handled by a city or county prosecutor’s office.
    Physicians are another profession in which public safety demands strict oversight. To a large
    degree, that oversight is provided by the insurance industry. If a physician has proven him or
    herself a danger to public safety, insurers won’t provide liability coverage, effectively terminating
    his or her career. Short of that, insurers might financially penalize those whose past practice has
    proven they represent a greater risk in the future. Likewise, the city needs to develop a
    systematic means for penalizing police officers whose behavior risks a future city liability, up to
    the point of firing them.
    3) Tensions relating to Minneapolis police partly derive from the perception that many
    officers have antipathy towards city life and city dwellers, reflected by their own choices of
    where to live (i.e. in suburban areas with a substantially different ethnic and racial mix).
    A frequent complaint is that police don’t live in the community in which they operate, which
    creates perceptions of racial and anti-immigrant bias that wouldn’t otherwise occur. If it is not
    legally feasible, nor immediately practical, to impose residency requirements on police, the best
    Civilian Review Principles-Page 2 of 2
    alternative would be to require those responsible for police oversight to live in the same precincts
    they are watching over, accountable to all the citizens of their precinct by way of direct election.
    (Oversight would also be provided by city dwellers who represent other precincts as detailed later
    in this document.) Issues (and types of complaints) vary by precinct so community control must
    on some level reduce to the precinct boundaries.
    If the city council instead chooses to contract with an outside entity, they will not successfully
    address community concerns that police oversight (if not policing itself) should be conducted by
    those familiar with the realities of city life. Additionally, if perceptions develop about the
    effectiveness of an outside entity similar to what has made the current C.R.A. unpalatable, there
    would not exist the same built in remedy as a system in which police review commissioners are
    subject to elections.
    4) The issue of police acting without accountability to the communities they serve has
    been considered a major problem in Minneapolis for many years. The single most
    important concern for the city is not to provide a venting place for those wronged by police
    misconduct but to create an oversight system which deters future misconduct.
    What hasn’t worked:
    C.R.A. — Besides having little, if any, credibility in the community, there is little evidence the
    existence of this oversight body has in any way deterred or reduced police misconduct.
    Internal Review and Police Management – Inspires no more confidence in the community than
    the discredited C.R.A. While some individual police managers may have quietly made
    attempts at curbing issues of misconduct, they have not proven themselves able to make a
    substantial change.
    Political Oversight — The mayor and city council have not proven able to influence police
    practices in general. County, state and federal authorities have played no discernible role.
    Civil Lawsuits — Victims of police misconduct, when they do not merely suffer quietly, have
    sued the city. Aside from the burden this places on city taxpayers, the fact that the city
    has made occasional payouts has failed to deter future police misconduct.
    What will work (a proposal):
    Community Accountability but no Fiefdoms — Two commissioners elected in every police
    precinct to two year terms coinciding with council. Complaints heard by a panel of five
    commissioners; the two elected representatives of the police precinct the officer is assigned to
    plus one (alternating) from each of the other three precincts.
    Independence from Police Management — Disciplinary power in the hands of the commissioners
    through the assigning of points, a certain sum total requiring termination. Police management
    and the police union to negotiate consequences of points accumulated beneath the mandatory
    termination limit (e.g. suspensions.)
    No Impediments to Investigation — Sufficient staffing, access to translators, subpoena power, and
    the right to assign points to officers who refuse to cooperate with an investigation or who do not
    testify truthfully.
    Civilian Review Principles-Page 3 of 3
    Open Process – Full rights of public access to hearings, dispositions, and complaint history
    against individual police officers
    Incentives, Not Just More Effective Punishments – 75% of city budget currently devoted to
    settlements or judicial verdicts for police misconduct reallocated to a civilian review fund.
    Commissioners authorized to provide compensation to victims when points are the result of a
    hearing (in exchange for complainant, in advance of any hearing, signing away their right to sue).
    The balance unpaid in any year to be distributed to police as a bonus, with sharply accelerating
    deductions based on points. For example, those with one point have their share reduced by 30%,
    those with two points by 70%, etc. This serves to appropriately consider liability risk in police
    officer compensation. (Just as mandatory termination would reflect unacceptable risk.)
    Encouragement of Non-Adversarial Resolutions – Civilian Review should have the equivalent of
    a “restorative justice” program, in which complainant and police officer can agree to resolve the
    dispute through mediation or a peace circle. Financial compensation (subject to the conciliation
    court limit) can be a part of the resolution as long as it is approved by the commissioners.
    Successful mediations would not result in points assigned to the police officer.
    Full Protection for Whistleblowers — It is imperative that no internal intimidation within the
    police department serves to cover up abuse.
    Elected Commissioners to Coordinate Citizen Input Into Police Practices and Policies – In a
    better position to understand and mediate police and citizen concerns than city council members,
    they will initiate public meetings, develop advisory boards, and take the lead in promoting needed
    changes.
    Meet Budgetary Priorities – The implementation of this proposal would allow the city to
    eliminate funding for the current C.R. A. as well as substantially de-fund the Internal Affairs unit.
    (Complaints initiated by police management can be referred to civilian review oversight.) If
    necessary, it would be appropriate to use funds allocated for “neighborhood” concerns, such as
    NRP. Though budgeting for civilian lawsuits at 25% of current levels would be a necessary
    initial precaution, a successful reformation of the police force would save money over time by
    reducing future liability, which would in turn enable further savings in the City Attorney’s Office.

  140. Reality Is :
    Here’s a good video showing a police contact, verbal commands, refusal, taser, fight for life, and a shooting. Unarmed man. Deadly force only option.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnxA5g8l0Xg

    This video might be informative if it had anything at all to do with the Kelly Thomas situations. Gun drawn (possibly being wrestled for — who knows since this video doesn’t show the most important events) / no gun. Standing suspect / prone suspect. Suspect already engaged by multiple officers / no control of suspect. Other than the fact that both “suspects” died, I don’t see much similarity.

    Please explain how the lives of the FPD officers were in mortal danger and why they had “no other option” besides beating Kelly into a coma and death. Thanks in advance.

  141. This video is stupid! There is no basis in probable cause for the cop to stop this guy who appears to be doing nothing more than walking down a street. There appears to be a gap that doesn’t show anything leading up to that stop. From what I can tell from this video, the whole stop, detention leading up to the use of deadly force constitutes a 4th Amendment violation. It was illegal. Notice how the other cops care more about the fat out of shape one, rather than the “suspect ” lying on the ground bleeding to death!

    Case law:http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2011/08/26/09-56372.pdf

    1. Haaaaaaaaa that was great. I expected nothing less from you. All legal. San Francisco bay view illegal too. Go protest. Lol.

  142. Too bad Fullerton doesn’t have a Dr. Ott to weed out the riff raff from FPD, and city hall for that matter. Seems like Fullerton has more than its share of entitled politicians and police officers. Unfortunately, I have had the misfortune to have interacted with such people. Once the mask of normalcy drops these people are revealed as what they truly are, brutal and dangerous thugs. Unfortunately it takes the beating death of a 135 pound man by 6 police officers to bring these officers psychopathology to light at a very sad expense. The mayor,certain city councillors, and the DA, are exhibiting a collective sense of entitlement. They are in their positions to serve the people, and not the other way.

  143. After reading Dr. Ott’s “analysis” all I can say is that without interviewing the individuals in question, said “analysis” is simply a collection of generalized psycho-babble.

    I think I will wait for the all the investigations to be completed and I have read them fully before I rush to judgement.

    1. Don’t hold your breath waiting for “all” the investigations. You’ll die of asphyxiation. But at least you won’t be tased first.

  144. Here’s an excerpt of the LATimes article, 01/31/98, during the sentencing of Cicinelli’s shooter… Donna Cicinelli said she felt nothing but sorrow for Jimenez’s wife and children.
    “What he has done to his family must be unbearable to them,” she said. “I’d rather have both of my sons shot than [for them] to be shooters.” – (LA Times) She makes you feel warm and fuzzy everywhere..like a true extra loving mother would. Yeah, right. A loving mother would never start a sentence with..”I’d rather have both my sons shot…”, NEVER. I think the Doctor hit it on the head. I bet they called Cicinelli a sissy in school. Bet his mom beat him for being a real sissy too, and as he cried for “dad” to save him…do you think she hit him harder?!

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