Why Didn’t Norby Speak Up On Fullerton’s Water Tax? He Did.


Back on May 6, 1997 a resident named Tom O’Neill told the City Council that he opposed the practice of transferring money from the Water Fund to the General Fund.  O’Neill said it’s deceptive and builds mistrust in elected officials.  Then Mayor Chris Norby noted that the City attorney was reviewing this issue and would report on it at a future meeting.

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Then, in September of 1997, the Water Fund issue rises again as the priorities for Hill Crest Park were being considered.  The Water Fund and Redevelopment Fund were being eyed as the primary funding source.

The City’s consultant tried to explain why these funds could be used.  His logic?  If a new waterline and reservoir were to be installed, many of the other park improvements could be logically tied to the water work.

Marie Whaling and Barbara Marr asked questions about the use of Redevelopment Funds and Water Funds for the park.

Mayor Norby explained that Redevelopment Funds were to be used for alleviating blight.  He went on to say that the concerns expressed regarding funding sources are legitimate and that Water Fund monies are for water purposes and expenditures must be related to water and its delivery.

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  1. #1 by Chumley on April 7, 2012

    Then Norby went home and beat his non-English speaking wife?

    • #2 by FPD Pajarito on April 7, 2012

      Goodrich.

    • #3 by The sandman on April 8, 2012

      Perhaps we might all benefit if you submitted a public records request for the pictures the FPD took of the bruises on her after Chris left town for Sacramento……

  2. #4 by Old Timer on April 7, 2012

    I miss O’ Neil. He was the last decent Chamber president, before they all turned wafflish. He knew that a businesses that use large amounts of water were getting ripped off by the transfer.

    Not sure of your point Sebourn. Norby approved an illegal tax for six years. Nelson did it for eight years. Quirk has done it for seven years.

    Quirk is right. They all did it. They were either lazy or uninformed.

    I will say this though. Quirk was reading this blog in 2009 when FFFF posted on the topic and still did nothing. Her problem now is that Norby and Nelson have moved on. She hasn’t. And she’s not going to, either.

  3. #5 by Steve Brow on April 7, 2012

    Nobody is perfect.

    My mother was Chris’ Sunday school teacher when he was in junior high. I guess the fact that Chris has had three wives means that he failed some lessons. Then again, maybe my mother failed the same lessons eventually or did not impress Chris sufficiently.

    I have had some political disagreemets with Chris since I first interviewed him as a Fullerton City Council candidate some 37 years ago. He lost, coming in fourth amoung 13 candidates for three seats, if I remember right.

    In general, Chris has stood out for good government and has espoused a good limited government philosophy, Often he has stuck his neck out alone on a subject. If sometimes he has gone along with the status quo that is not pure, that is also of note.

    Politically, one could support Chris with other elected officials that would support his better decissions, continue to support Chris as someone sometimes willing to stand up as a lone wolf, or replace Chris with someone different. That someone different would have to be someone better than Chris.

    Sharon Quirk is stepping forward. Is that better, in your opinion?

    • #6 by Old Timer on April 8, 2012

      Stepping forward? Hard to do that when you’re facing backwards.

  4. #7 by Hick Jones on April 7, 2012

    Whiskey’s fer drinkin’ an’ water’s fer fightin’!

  5. #8 by Fence sitting Cardboard Candidate on April 7, 2012

    I think we should discuss this water fee if this is the thing everyone seems to be talking about.

  6. #9 by levelthefield on April 7, 2012

    It is really damn disgusting to want to talk about something that has been illegal for nearly twenty years.
    It’s way past time to take action and clear up the mess and pay for the harm that his been done to the citizens of this City.
    First step is to hire a “more” COMPETENT CITY ATTORNEY!
    CITY COUNCIL GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND DIRECT THE CITY MANAGER TO DRAFT A PLAN TO RETURN EVERY CENT THAT HAS BEEN COLLECTED SINCE THE STATE DECLARED THE COLLECTION OF THESE FUNDS TO BE ILLEGAL.
    Council has been mealy mouthed by city staff and passed their responsibility to a controlled contractor to produce a biased and unreasonable evaluation of expense allocation of water fund expenses.
    Do like the IRS, no receipts=no deduction
    The water fund had no expenses, refund all the collected funds as a penalty for staff and management incompetence.

    • #10 by The sandman on April 8, 2012

      Hello, wake up!…..the tax has not been found illegal in our disrict of the state appeals court. As a result it is still legal until ruled against by our court disrict, or the state supreme court. Because, two other district courts have ruled the same way, the smart thing to do is to stop collecting the tax, or collect it, and put it in a trust fund until this issue is resolved. The tax is legal as it stands until either court makes a decision…

      • #11 by Old Timer on April 8, 2012

        That’s the most disingenuous thing you could have said. That’s like saying it’s legal to run stop signs until you’re caught.

        Still, if that’s the best you’ve got, it sure looks like a great campaign issue: the Three Sloths Say It’s Legal Until Sued By Taxpayers!

        That’ll look good on a mailer.

      • #12 by Sadness on April 8, 2012

        Fool. I’m glad you admit it’s nothing more than a tax – a tax never approved by the voters and hidden under a different name.

        Something tells me your pension is being paid by the illegal water tax.

  7. #13 by The Fullerton Watcher on April 8, 2012

    Chris might have tried to do the right thing but ultimately there was no vote and he never took the lawyer to task.

  8. #14 by Citizen M on April 8, 2012

    Ms. Squirt- had one of her henchmen, go to the last water meeting and pretend- she was interested in getting this resolved…until the idiot said: The mayor is interested in finding out who is on thie fund boards the decides the water issue, she wanted to know- she is SOOOOO stupid, when the city attorney laughed and said- The mayor is on the board, so here it is folks the blind leading the blind. They have no idea, that many that sat on the clowncil, are about to be thrown in jail. RICO act, organized crime is still illegal, Getting this JOE FELZ, and all those who have supported this, and your stupid wives who were in on it too, they are all going down, I just enjoy watching MS Sanchez- 2.0 the lamer version – our mayor, thinking she will walk away from her illegal activities,Sharon- your going down, after you stick your tail between your legs, and try to scurry away,you will not be rewarded for illegal behavior, and get a new position, the only position, you deserve is frankly cutting out shapes with your third grade class,and that Im not even sure if you can handle, I have seen you at ribbon cuttings, you lady ( i use the term loosely)…suck, bad, but go ahead and continue- to pal around with loosers, like Loretta….and who ever told you to wear that red scarve, please tell me it wast raul, loretta’s fag hag boy-wanna be stylist…it puts on 13 pounds, to your already ruebenesqe figure…see Im a giver, I just told you something apparently your freinds have a problem doing..you look stupid with that scarve- stupid.

    • #15 by van get it da artiste on April 9, 2012

      stream of consciousness that says so much, why sort out details into cogent sentences when all details paint the image of a silly woman without a spine and fashion sense who refused to serve the interests of fullerton’s community

    • #16 by Sadness on April 9, 2012

      That was pretty catty. Rrrowwwww!!

      • #17 by van get it da artiste on April 9, 2012

        When quirk-silva stops putting her hands into my wallet, then I will stop being “catty”.

  9. #18 by Fence sitting Cardboard Candidate on April 8, 2012

    I’m sure the illegal water tax is really a man of fine character.

  10. #19 by Jane H on April 9, 2012

    Task force seeks to change California’s mental health commitment law

    By Lee Romney, Los Angeles Times

    April 8, 2012, 6:17 p.m.

    SAN FRANCISCO — A homeless man plagued by schizophrenia is beaten to death by police in Fullerton. A man from Fort Bragg fixates on aliens for years while denying he is ill, then kills two men before dying in a gunfight with law enforcement. A Nevada County mental health client who had refused additional care storms into a clinic and kills three workers.”

    http://www.latimes.com/health/la-me-mental-health-task-force-20120409,0,677225.story

  11. #20 by The Water Guy on April 9, 2012

    City officials keep saying that the invisible water tax is not illegal. They are correct if the city were only charging “cost of service.” What the city’s own consultants have already admitted is that what was skimmed off the water fund to the general fund was in excess of cost of service. Hence, it’s not a matter of “IF” but by “HOW MUCH.” Given that no real audit of the skimmed funds has been done, it is not unreasonable to suspect that it will end up being more than $2.1M for the last 3 years. In terms of accountability, the current council, especially Quirk-Silva and Whittaker, deserve credit for backing up the water rate adhoc committee. There was no adhoc committee looking into these things under previous councils but that’s besides the point. No one can argue with the wisdom of doing so now given the different political camps those two represent. Without Quirk-Silva and Whittaker the adhoc committee would have had little option but to rubber stamp the consultant’s report and choose one of the three staff developed options for reimbursing the rate payers – while allowing the skimming of funds from the water fund in excess of a truly certifiable cost of service.

  12. #21 by Stanley Fiala on April 9, 2012

    Since you do not have a thread on http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/ yet re latest attack by Jew Diamond on you.

    http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2012/04/ffff-notable-comments-episode-1/

    Maybe one day you will realize Tony that I am not anti-semitic but anti-assholle

    If you lie down with dogs, you will get up with fleas, what do you expect from Jew Diamond?

    Enjoy your blogging in Orange Juice Blog

    • #22 by Concerned Texan on April 9, 2012

      Stanley,
      Are you TRYING to curse us? Are you really summoning the spirit of Greg Diamond who responds to every _single_ post, monopolizes any blog that suits his whim, and whines…. well, whines. He hasn’t been around lately. Please don’t tempt fate. No links please, he makes any blog painful to read and follow once he takes over. Think about the children…

      • #23 by Jane H on April 9, 2012

        “Think about the children…”

        Ha ha

        I looked over the OJ Blog. Wow! He seems to now have big chip on his shoulder.

        • #24 by Concerned Texan on April 9, 2012

          I just followed the link and read the article. I don’t know what his “end game” is so to speak. I was disappointed he picked four really lame quotes out of countless. I appreciate that Tony rebuked him. I hope that the people of Fullerton will see his nasty political tactics for what they are. From his behavior, words, and attitude on both sites I would have to say he isn’t worth anyone’s vote. Sigh.

          • #25 by Greg Diamond on April 9, 2012

            Boo! (Scared you?)

            I chose quotes from the past weekend only. They were not “countless.” (And you disagreed with the first one on the water tax? Interesting.)

            I explain what I’m doing right in that post: trying to get a sense of what a Sebourn & Kiger (plus Levinson, even though unless he’s under a pseudonym I don’t know if he’s “official”) Fullerton City Government might be like.

            Aside from Tony, commenters here (like you) are the main force propelling them towards (although maybe not “into”) office. Getting to know you may tell voters about them — or, perhaps they’ll actively disavow you, who knows?

            Why do you call quoting comments from here “nasty”? (“Bad Chi” — now that was nasty, despite being brilliant in a “sick” sort of way!) You’re giving the impression that FFFF is all about offense but can’t play defense.

            If you’re nice and civil in reply I’ll stow away my deadly kudzu powers. Have a nice day! Enjoy the gift of Fiala!

            • #26 by The Fullerton Harpoon on April 9, 2012

              This is a shakedown, right? If we pay you will you just go away?

              • #27 by Stanley Fiala on April 9, 2012

                “This is a shakedown, right?”……. Hmmmmm

                You wish!

                Actually It is cyber terrorism!

              • #28 by Greg Diamond on April 9, 2012

                Nah — if I did that I’d need everyone’s information for my campaign finance reporting.

            • #29 by Stanley Fiala on April 9, 2012

              “Enjoy the gift of Fiala!”……. Hmmmm

              The unalienable rights and individual sovereignty comes from the creator.

              Fiala is only the watcher…… you moron mongoloid.

            • #30 by Concerned Texan on April 9, 2012

              Greg, your response to my comment indicates how little you know about various people who post at FFFF. I disagree with your comment about me specifically being part of any driving force propelling any person into any particular office. One of the things I appreciate about FFFF is the opportunity to engage others in dialogue about any given issue.

              I personally do not condone personal insults or negative fluffy commentary, however, I am a proponent of free speech. I watched, metaphorically speaking, as you monopolized an entire post. I think you lost face with a lot of readers and commentators here when you switched from making potentially intellectually stimulating comments about the blog topic to becoming essentially the language / insult police. I’ve taken my fair share of insults for no rational reason other than I clicked the submit button on this page. I’ve endured ad hominum attacks for sharing my opinions. It’s just part of what happens.

              I would like to respectfully give you my opinion on dominating a blog post in the form of this analogy: Imagine you’re seated at a dinner table among several guests. If you’re constantly talking over everyone, or continually dominating the conversation and running over other peoples’ opinions, then the remaining dinner guests might start to resent you being there. It became so difficult for me to follow what other people were saying because you were responding to nearly every single comment that I started to consider your excessive postings just as inappropriate as the comment about the mail order bride.

              I used the word “countless” in reference to all the comments on every FFFF blog ever written. I’ve seen certain posts regarding Kelly Thomas have accumulated 900+ comments. And no, you did not scare me. I think your comments and motives are relatively disingenuous or perhaps completely politically motivated. I read articles from other media sources that seem imply that every post on here has some sort of insidious political motivation and I believe that is not always the case. I would like to tell the FFFF community how much I have enjoyed participating on this site and how much I’ve enjoyed getting to know this community.

              So to wrap this entirely-too-long comment up, I would respect you more if you could take what I have written to you and think about it instead of replying with a post that argues virtually every point I have made. In the future I will respectfully not engage you.

              • #31 by Greg Diamond on April 9, 2012

                ConcTex — thanks for the refreshingly civil comment. I’ll answer it in the detail you say you would have wished for previously, with the warning that this is exactly how I could be seen as “taking over” a blog. If you still don’t wish to engage me, that’s you’re right.

                (1) You’re part of the regular (although perhaps not as regular as some) commenters here, who collectively are indeed a force (though a lesser one that donor money) propelling candidates towards office. If you feel that I’m unfair in including you personally, you may have a point.

                (2) Actually, you do condone personal insults. You’ll find some doozies that would generally go uncommented upon on this very page. You do so because you feel no personal responsibility to challenge them, and you feel no personal responsibility to challenge them because of the example set by Tony and at least two candidate-contributors. The effect of this is to keep people who really get off of making bigoted attacks “within the fold” — so that the site’s core personnel receive the benefit of their participation and political support while being able to disavow (or assert that they might disavow) the content of their comments. This is trying to have it both ways, and it won’t work.

                (3) I’m a proponent of free speech too. That means that I oppose government censorship. It does not mean that I think that the right of anyone to say any damn thing they want in a private forum has to be respected. It may be that they only occasionally need to be removed from a private forum, but telling someone to their face that they are completely out of line (with, for example, florid bigotry) is a very good component of public socialization — which people here reject (except when it comes to political disagreement.)

                (4) What I did on that post of Sebourn’s, after about a dozen comments in when a commenter decided that it was good fun to liken my Asian immigrant wife to a prostitute — the mail order bride comment I was prepared to shrug off with a single shot back — was to decide that I was going to push back against every single bullshit comment that came my way, if for no other reason than to show people here what being willing to stand alone against dozens of people looks like. It’s a way of shaming bullies. That with very few exceptions others were not joining in made me decide that I didn’t really care that much what people at that particular dinner party thought about me at that moment. You’ll notice that I usually don’t do that; I’m just able to if I need to.

                (5) I find a lot of interesting and worthwhile stuff on FFFF too. I don’t think that every post here has a political motivation, let alone an insidious one — I think that people here were mostly right about the Kelly Thomas issue, though I have my areas of disagreement. What I think that you don’t appreciate is how bad some of the writing that gives this site its punch in comments really is. By taking just four comments out of a weekend — only one of which received any push-back at all, compared to political disagreements that consistently get aggressive pushback — I’m helping to highlight for you what this site actually looks like when you’re not prepared to overlook things.

                If you’re right, that these are no big deal, then I do the site no disservice by quoting them. If Tony’s right that Greg and Travis and Barry have no responsibility at all even to tell people when they go over the line with bigotry (as people here do with political apostasy), then maybe it will even help their campaigns. But, as it stands, FFFF is a large part of why they are a force — and potentially part of a council majority. If you think that FFFF isn’t going to come under scrutiny over the next two months, with me or without me, you’re fooling yourself.

                Sorry if you decide not to engage me, as stated, but I will respect your choice.

                • #32 by Sadness on April 10, 2012

                  Do you ever say anything that isn’t self-righteous, humorless and long-winded? Jesus, you’re a bore – the worst blogging offense of all.

      • #33 by Stanley Fiala on April 9, 2012

        What I do not understand is Vern Nelson.

        Is he stupid or what?

        Can’t he see that he is completely destroying OJB?…. Or was he paid to let Diamond to take over.

        I think Nelson is suffering from the Delirium tremens or is doing some DUI time.

        • #34 by truthseeker on April 9, 2012

          LONG LIVE FFFF

        • #35 by Concerned Texan on April 9, 2012

          No one has to PAY Greg Diamond to take over anything. He just does it naturally, like Kudzu. If you want to know to what I am referring, do an archive search for the blog about Quirk having the opportunity to make the right choice, then doesn’t. Hopefully you’ll empathize more; it was “baaaaaaaad.” [Insert Doc. Jones imitation preacher voice]

          • #36 by Greg Diamond on April 9, 2012

            Now, see — that didn’t bother me! The “kudzu” remark was even funny.

            • #37 by Sadness on April 10, 2012

              No, it was hilarious. And apt. Kudzu is invasive, useless, and parasitical.

    • #38 by Stanley Fiala on April 9, 2012

      I really do not understand why Tony Bushala is accepting instruction from Esq. Diamond on how to publish kosher FFFF blog in the above link.

      Drop it tony!

      You have fall for Diamonds trick of mud slinging.

      In the end he will call you and the FFFF anti-Semitic hate blog.

      He has been retain by some clandestine Jewish organization to do that — to defame blogs!!!

  13. #40 by Disgusted on April 9, 2012

    Greg Diamond & Stanley Fiala both suck balls!

  14. #41 by Evry things just Shell on April 10, 2012

    Greg Diamond :Boo! (Scared you?)
    I chose quotes from the past weekend only. They were not “countless.” (And you disagreed with the first one on the water tax? Interesting.)
    I explain what I’m doing right in that post: trying to get a sense of what a Sebourn & Kiger (plus Levinson, even though unless he’s under a pseudonym I don’t know if he’s “official”) Fullerton City Government might be like.
    Aside from Tony, commenters here (like you) are the main force propelling them towards (although maybe not “into”) office. Getting to know you may tell voters about them — or, perhaps they’ll actively disavow you, who knows?
    Why do you call quoting comments from here “nasty”? (“Bad Chi” — now that was nasty, despite being brilliant in a “sick” sort of way!) You’re giving the impression that FFFF is all about offense but can’t play defense.
    If you’re nice and civil in reply I’ll stow away my deadly kudzu powers. Have a nice day! Enjoy the gift of Fiala!

    I had to laugh, the only one to defend you, you posted my post as evil, what does that tell you? In the past I was the only one to defend you, and this is the thanks I get….

  15. #42 by Breathing Fire on April 10, 2012

    Oh yeah, the post is about the Water Tax collected illegally
    Come on, this is a bunch of me me me by a bunch of people who have nothing better to do than to talk to and about themselves. Seriously people, government is screwing us all and getting away with it. Sharon Quirk-Silva has no solutions, no original thoughts and we are lucky she is tired of City Council. She cannot make a decision without asking someone what the issue means and how to vote. Now she is lashing out at Norby, Nelson and Whitaker that they haven’t done anything about this issue, when in fact, yes dear Quirky Silver even Whitaker mentioned this during his first months in office. As a matter of fact, Whitaker was working on this water tax issue with Tom O’Neil all those many years ago.

    Bottom line is we need to get this recall election to succeed and vote for the candidates who understand the problems of Fullerton and what it will take to fix them.

  16. #43 by Wrong Guy on April 10, 2012

    “I watched, metaphorically speaking, as you monopolized an entire post. I think you lost face with a lot of readers and commentators here when you switched from making potentially intellectually stimulating comments about the blog topic to becoming essentially the language / insult police.”

    The above comment from Concerned Texan is SO true Greg Diamond.
    Read it again and chill please.

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