The Lonesome Death of Kelly Thomas


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  1. #1 by The Fullerton Harpoon on May 7, 2012

    The level of incompetence, malice and indifference to a human life is appalling. And telling.

    It’s the Culture of Corruption.

  2. #2 by Anonymous on May 7, 2012

    It is very emotional to watch the clip. I fear to even walk or drive in Fullerton, though I am angry that we give up our freedoms so that the PD can act like the way they did to Kelly Thomas.

  3. #3 by Chris Thompson on May 7, 2012

    I am just seeing this for the very first time. I am so much more angry and disturbed 4 minutes in that I anticipated. This is wrenching.

  4. #4 by Travis Kiger on May 7, 2012

    I’m struggling to figure out why this wasn’t released last July so we could all know what really happened. Who did the secrecy serve?

  5. #5 by The Fullerton Harpoon on May 7, 2012

    Excellent question. Ask Jones or Bankhead or McKinley. Or felz. Or Attorney Jones.

  6. #6 by Vernon Dozier on May 7, 2012

    He wasn’t obligated to give them his name under California law. I guess Ramos and Wolfe never got the memo on that one.

  7. #7 by Erin on May 7, 2012

    As soon as Wolfe hit Kelly with the baton, Kathy Thomas broke into uncontrollable tears! It was heart wrenching. Being a parent I can not fathom seeing and hearing my son beat to death after the fact. SHAME ON THE FPD 6!!!! SHAME ON anyone who believes this was justified!

  8. #8 by merijoe on May 7, 2012

    Because, it would interfere with their investigation-isnt that what they said? but how?

    I think I read a post about how this would cause a riot, that sounds more like it.

    I can’t watch all-hurts.

  9. #9 by Erin on May 7, 2012

    Sorry for the misspell.. Cathy Thomas.

  10. #10 by The Fullerton Savage on May 7, 2012

    No excuses. How were these officers on the streets for weeks after this happened?

  11. #11 by Dman on May 7, 2012

    My sincere condolences to the Thomas family. Clearly this could’ve been prevented. You always give a suspect.clear orders. Ones that make sense. Obviously this was not the purpose for Ramos.

  12. #12 by Through different eyes on May 7, 2012

    As a parent my heart goes out to the Thomas family beyond words can convey.
    I am so incredibly sickened and sorry.
    I would rather die a horrific death than to go through seeing the final moments of my child’s life snuffed out as he pleaded for help.
    I am so incredibly outraged, shocked, and saddened.

    God,
    PLEASE,
    give us as a nation,
    justice,
    PLEASE.

    I am a small woman and “I” would not have been intimidated by Kelly.
    I watched this video closely, and I never saw anything that Kelly did to deserve this, NOTHING.
    This is so outrageous and pitiful.

    Sleep with the angels Kelly,
    you were too good for this world.

  13. #13 by We Are All One on May 7, 2012

    DISGUSTED DISGUSTED

    COLD BLOODED MURDER

    DISGUSTED DISGUSTED

  14. #14 by Dman on May 7, 2012

    My condolences to the Thomas family. I hope they get the justice Kelly deserves.

  15. #15 by We Are All One on May 7, 2012

    THIS WAS COLD BLOODED MURDER MURDERMURDER MURDERMURDER MURDERMURDER MURDERMURDER MURDERMURDER MURDERMURDER MURDERMURDER MURDERMURDER MURDER

  16. #16 by brandi on May 7, 2012

    My prayers are with Kelly and my sincerest sympathies go out to Mr. Thomas’ family.

    There are no words, in any language, (except perhaps the one they speak in hell) to describe the events shown in this video. Mortifying, detestable, despicable, reprehensible… none even begin to cover it.

    I have never believed in corporal punishment – after seeing this video however – I feel these men have truly earned a beating to the brink of death & back again so that they can lie broken, feeling the pain of their crushed bodies, struggling to breath, feeling debilitating fear, knowing that every moment they endure was what they forced that poor man to feel before he succumbed to a tortured death at their hands.

    I am sickened to know I share the same sunlight and breath the same air as these so called human beings, dressed up costumes of authority.

    If all parties involved do not spend the rest of their natural lives behind bars or sentenced to death – there is no justice in this world.

  17. #17 by Erik Wehn on May 7, 2012

    I can understand a few bad seeds or sadists more appropriately in this case. What I can’t comprehend is the watch commander who watched and said nothing, the fire chief who said nothing of his story before, the people in FPD who saw the video and said nothing, all these people who knew how bad it was and remained silent. It’s worse than a culture of corruption. It’s unspeakable bastards being protected and even encouraged by apathetic parasites.

  18. #18 by The Fullerton Watcher on May 7, 2012

    I watch this and see so many things wrong with this picture. I think I would have been just like Kelly. There was no reason to make him sit on the curb, no reason to search his belongings. They never stated what cars were broken into (still a lie told by the FPD). It’s time to punish Wolfe, he handed the gloves to Ramos which tells me they were on the same page. This situation should never happen.

    Time to boycott the slide bar

  19. #19 by We Are All One on May 7, 2012

    My heart broke when I first saw Ron on the news and showed the photo of Kelly. I’ve always known it was a murder and now seeing the youtube video it can’t be any clearer that it was. I hope justice is served. The truth is right there for everyone to see and to deny justice for Kelly now would be unthinkable. I can’t stop the tears and I want to vomit. SHAME ON THE FPD

  20. #20 by We Are All One on May 7, 2012

    brandi

    “If all parties involved do not spend the rest of their natural lives behind bars or sentenced to death – there is no justice in this world.”

  21. #21 by merijoe on May 7, 2012

    I can’t imagine how Ron was able to watch this video 6-7 times..that poor man. I can’t even watch it once. My brother is a grief counselor and can’t watch the video either.

    I don’t understand, I just don’t understand how family members and friends can even speak of justification for this and brag about how wonderful their cops are.

  22. #22 by Curious on May 7, 2012

    Ask McKinley, Bankhead and Jones, who in my mind have all participated in the cover up of a murder.

  23. #23 by Bartender Bill on May 7, 2012

    Patriots? Good old boys? the Establishment, the employees? union? FFFF?

  24. #24 by Vernon Dozier on May 7, 2012

    You mean the fire captain…the fire chief wasn’t there.

    As to why he said nothing, the city’s own policies forbid them from saying negative things about the City and I suspect the DA told him to be quiet. The same policies would apply for the Watch Commander.

  25. #25 by Richard on May 7, 2012

    Poor Kelly Thomas. Those animals! Fullerton PD = Corruption

  26. #26 by A Comparison on May 7, 2012

    Watching the video suddenly reminded me of the Nick Berg beheading video but instead of shouting Allahu Akbar these cowards were shouting Stop Resisting.

  27. #27 by Bartender Bill on May 7, 2012

    what gets me is how much conversation Ramos makes with Kelly. Doesn’t Ramos see Kelly is not playing with a full deck? And he’s been a cop for how many years? What a Maroon.

  28. #28 by merijoe on May 7, 2012

    oh the pain they put Kelly through and felt nothing about intimidating him or striking the blows or tasering him-6 of them and not one of them thought to say enough already, not one of them.

  29. #29 by JustUs on May 7, 2012

    Chief Hughes, where are ya, buddy? Cat got your tongue? Come out from underneath your desk. The citizens deserve a statement from the FPD leader. No place to hide. We saw it all. The camera doesn’t lie. Be a big boy. Admit the failings of your officers. Let’s show a little leadership for once in Fullerton. Or will you continue to play the part of the coward???

  30. #30 by Anonymous on May 7, 2012

    Doesn’t Ramos see Kelly is not playing with a full deck?

    That was the whole point.

  31. #31 by brandi on May 7, 2012

    If Chief Hughes can not be publicly “against them” he should be considered “with them” and charged as well. There is no integrity in being loyal to murderers.

  32. #32 by JustUs on May 7, 2012

    I still can’t fathom that the cops helped bail Ramos and Cicinelli out of jail, provided personal security for them and the police union is paying for their attorneys. Wow. And they knew all along what what on the audio and video. This is like a huge gang of complicit thugs that have each other’s backs even when they are stone cold guilty. So even the so-called ‘good ones’ are in on it??? Have you heard any cops bad mouth the Fullerton six? Of course not. It’s a tight knit group of street thugs who have no sense of decency or justice. It’s all about them. Screw the citizens!!

  33. #33 by JustUs on May 7, 2012

    That’s right, brandi. No fence walking here. Show your true colors, Chief Dan! Who and what do you support? Thugs and murder or citizens and justice? Come out of your cubby hole and make a clear and unambiguous statement, Chief Dan. Don’t make us guess any longer, ok??? PICK A SIDE and say it. Be a man.

  34. #34 by Anonymous on May 7, 2012

    He made it clear who he supports when he admitted to watching the video 400 times but kept Wolfe on the payroll.

    Dan needs to go pronto along with the entire department

  35. #35 by We Are All One on May 8, 2012

    @ 27:30 – “Hey Wolfe, your DAR is in the back of this trunk and has blood all over it. Hey Jay, you missing your DAR too.”

    @ 28:00 – Cop to paramedic: “We can’t take him like this. Can you gurney him? hahahahahaha …lol ..hahaha ..”

    @ 31:14 – Cop: “I’m going to go with him (to the hospital) in case he starts fighting.” WHAT?!

    @ 31:48 – When the paramedics lift Kelly on the gurney, he seems really light and so small compared to everyone else.

    Everyone at the scene knows he was murdered. Everyone.

  36. #36 by JustUs on May 8, 2012

    The emperor was made totally naked today. We no longer have to guess whether he’s clothed or naked. He’s naked as a jaybird!!! :)

  37. #37 by L Murray on May 8, 2012

    Find 6 volunteers who are approximately the same size, give them batons, tazers, etc. and then put each of the 6 one at a time in a room, of course only wearing shorts and sandels, with the volunteers for say 15-20 minutes. Of course the volunteers would be given immunity for whatever might happen…
    Oh well in a different world or time….

  38. #38 by L Murray on May 8, 2012

    This gang on all levels, nationwide not just in Fullerton, makes the crips and bloods seem tiny and tame by comparison. Even the Mexican mafia have a lot to learn fro FPD and their like.

  39. #39 by John Doe on May 8, 2012

    Give me a break..You sound pretty stupid.

  40. #40 by John Doe on May 8, 2012

    Oh yeah, you should of seen all the Drama Queens in the courtroom. The judge had to shut them up.

  41. #41 by John Doe on May 8, 2012

    Yes it’s very sad. She probably feels guilty that she wasnt there for him. A little to late.

  42. #42 by John Doe on May 8, 2012

    No officers are not wacko experts.

  43. #43 by KC on May 8, 2012

    These disgusting PIGS SHOULD BE MURDERED THE SAME WAY THEY KILLED KELLY THOMAS. this says a lot about Fullerton and their “police department” if you could even call it that. Testosterone filled AMATEURES they make me sick to my stomach. They will get there’s and WORSE god dosnt let people like that off easily. FPD should be ASHAMED AND EMBARRESSED what a JOKE. I’m beyond disgusted.

  44. #44 by We Are All One on May 8, 2012

    I wrote that above from just watching the video and before I read the transcript. I can’t believe what I just saw and read. How could this happen to a fellow human in public? How could these monsters be allowed back on the street the next day? How many more Kelly Thomas’ were there that weren’t witnessed and recorded? I can’t believe this happens. How can city officials not show remorse and shame? How can they sleep at night? So much to be shocked, angry, sad and disgusted about. I have no respect for the FPD or anyone who allowed and helped to cover this up. The truth always comes out and here it is.

  45. #45 by Marlena on May 8, 2012

    Those 6 were allowed to stay on the streets with us for at least 6 weeks after they tortured Kelly on the streets.
    They are now almost a YEAR later still on Paid Vacation For Killing The Innocent!!!

  46. #46 by Marlena on May 8, 2012

    All the council members EXCEPT Bruce Whittaker have been useless if not vindictive towards the Thomas family AND Kelly’s Army.
    They needed the Genaco report to figure this out?

  47. #47 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    I stopped at 4 minutes. I couldn’t watch it without feeling sick.

  48. #48 by Nomad on May 8, 2012

    I took some comfort in this post submitted on another thread by “Through different eyes”……..He was precious and God loved him, KNOW that. His cries did not fall on deaf ears, God heard him……………I thought it was a beautiful sentiment and would forward it for anyone who may have missed it.

  49. #49 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    Wolfe needs to be charged!

  50. #50 by van get it da artiste on May 8, 2012

    evil. and what was our esteemed civic leaders response to this murder by their police force? Fullerton city council person and recently retired Fullerton police chief Pat McKinley glowingly recommends Rusty Kennedy’s ad hoc mental illness “mindmixer” out reach to mentally ill in fullerton committee.
    Huh?
    And both McKinley and Kennedy highly recommend Gennaco be paid by the city of fullerton to perform an “independent” investigation into the Kelly thomas “altercation”.

    It was easy for these police officers to sadistically beat a disabled man to death, it was easy for these same oficers to callously disregard a dying man next to them, it was easy for them to collude and lie about their murderous deed to the public. It was easy to do the above because their leader’s philosophy, Pat McKinley, was not serving the people of fullerton, but seeing the docile community of Fullerton as evil that always seeks to harm police officers.
    It is not easy to corrupt a city’s police force into a muderous force, it takes time, money(community’s civil rights abuses by Fullerton PD hushed up with legal settlements approved by the city) and over a decade of leadership that promotes cruel, sadistic abuse of a placid, bedroom community because the leader sees the public he has promised to serve as the enemy, and the tacit or explicit support of the city council persons.
    Recall the evil triad, Jones, Bankhead, McKinley to restore decency to our police force and representative government to our municipal government.
    Recall the evil triad to end the propaganda of ad hoc mental illness committees that only strive to offer sensitivity training to Fullerton PD

  51. #51 by Anonymous on May 8, 2012

    At last, we have all seen the truth of what they did to Kelly. 10 hours after the video was released, 94 MILLION hits on google news, and growing. Suck on that FPD.

  52. #52 by Simmons on May 8, 2012

    These FPD PIGS should be tortured to death. All of them.

    Worthless pieces of human garbage with badges.

  53. #53 by merijoe on May 8, 2012

    The cold callousness sounds like a godfather movie after some of the mafia just offed someone brutally.

  54. #54 by Nomad on May 8, 2012

    A lot of adj. have been used to try to describe Kelly, homeless, mentally ill, schitzophrenic…

    “Start swinging dude. It sucks!”
    Kelly Thomas
    July 5th 2011

    I watched an innocent, brave man being murdered.

  55. #55 by Simmons on May 8, 2012

    If the FPD seeks EVIL they need look no further than their mirrors. If the FPD wishes to destroy EVIL, committing suicide would be a good start.

    That said, how could an honorable people allow an organization such as the FPD exists? At least this somewhat explains the compliancy of the honorable German people whom stood by and watch millions of Jews murdered.

    I submit for your consideration that the FPD are not the ultimate blame; for this level of EVIL cannot exist unless the people allow it to exists. Until the FPD is disbanded and the Slide Bar closed, the citizens of Fullerton will personify the Banality of EVIL and have the blood of Kelly Thomas on their hands.

    The Recall is a good start to ending the EVIL. But nothing short of disbanding the FPD should be the call. Wish I could help.

  56. #56 by Fred Alcazar on May 8, 2012

    That attitude is no better than Cicinelli’s. I’m hoping you are not armed.

  57. #57 by Fred Alcazar on May 8, 2012

    You saw that, too.

    “Here. You may need these.”

  58. #58 by Fullertonpd=keystonecops on May 8, 2012

    That was the disturbing piece of film ever. I cannot watch this ever again. Ron Thomas and the rest of the Thomas family well, where do you start? I know now more than ever what drives this poor man on his quest for justice. It has moved me even more now. Wolfe the murdering cop thug runs free amongst us and that scares the shit outta me an it should everyone else too. Chief Hugh’s should be let go immediately. The fact that he nor Baghdad Bob, otherwise known as Goodrich did not hold a press conference after seeing this, what, 400 times, is disgusting and proves once again we have more of the same. The fact a recommendation has not been put across for the removal of Wolfe and his name as a FPD is reprehensible. We will never forget the names of all these liars, murders and cheats involved in this. This will be forever etched in stone on the city of Fullerton. I want to start a class action lawsuit against the city of Fullerton for hiring Cincinelli. I am appalled disgusted that these subhuman creatures walked amongst us with badges and guns and all their other weapons, for which they used all of them on this poor soul. Those screams are forever in my mind and to think they did this in front of all those witnesses. Their families should be ashamed of these creatures but yet yesterday they were smirking in court, especially Ramos brother and the creep sitting next to him. The recall can’t come soon enough. I will walk my neighborhood and remind people to recall its the least I can do. See you all in front of the police station soon our work is not done there are some who have not received the justice they deserve. “Release the tape” we heard all summer long. Well, they did and it is way worse then we could ever imagine.
    Just sickened.

  59. #59 by Simmons on May 8, 2012

    Perhaps and I am armed.

  60. #60 by Fullerton Lover on May 8, 2012

    Just remember little boy that your day is coming.

  61. #61 by Fullerton Lover on May 8, 2012

    Like I said little boy. I know who you are and your time is coming soon.

  62. #62 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    They already knew his name, and were just taunting him. Sick f**ks!

  63. #63 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    “No officers are not wacko experts.”

    So what are they then, the “Clean-up Crew”?

    Every cop lover on this site since August 2011 has said that Kelly deserved what he got…because he was schizo and wacko. So, I guess what you’re saying is that the cops thought he was just a regular person sitting on the bus bench who might have tried to open car doors.

    Is that how you believe all citizens should be treated under the color of authority?

    If I don’t answer a question correctly when stopped by the police, should I be hit with a baton?

    Wow! That is very sick.

  64. #64 by Marsha on May 8, 2012

    Your officer knew exactly who Kelly was. He also knew all about Kelly. You can’t deny it, it is right there for all to see. Shame on you.

  65. #65 by Marsha on May 8, 2012

    I am sure he watched it so many times scouring it for anything he could use to excuse these murderers. 400 times and there is nothing there to save them.

  66. #66 by Marsha on May 8, 2012

    It sure seems that way, doesn’t it? What a wonderful brotherhood to belong to!

  67. #67 by Simmons on May 8, 2012

    @20:37
    RAMOS: There’s fucking blood everywhere.

    KELLY : Dad help me. Dad help me. GOD Help me.

    Kelly makes a passionate plea to God for help while Evil beats him. Kelly dies five days later.

    They say God always has a plan. Could it be God’s plan to shine a bright light on the EVIL that is the Fullerton Police Department and see what happens?

    If so, the ball is in our court.

  68. #68 by Wrong Guy on May 8, 2012

    John Doe :No officers are not wacko experts.

    Speak for your own FPD 6 goons that were present in this video murdering and covering up said murder!!!

  69. #69 by Marsha on May 8, 2012

    That is so true, WAY worse than we could imagine. It is unimaginable how horrible Kelly’s last moments were.
    I really hope that the person who called the cops that night can never sleep again.
    Fullerton LE should be ashamed and all held accountable. Sickening!

  70. #70 by Wrong Guy on May 8, 2012

    The Mexican Mafia is more skilled, moral and manly than FPD. They go after the REAL bad guys.

    And you wouldn’t here them crying over little abraisions.

  71. #71 by Wrong Guy on May 8, 2012

    “It’s time to punish Wolfe, he handed the gloves to Ramos which tells me they were on the same page.”

    Bingo FW!!! I just notice that after watching it the 2nd time last night. Really all that means is they both had intentions of searching his backpack and pockets. It’s standard procedure to put on those latex gloves when doing almost any police work these days. Kind of panzi-ish if you ask me, but in today’s world of pathogens in the air, etc… BS!

  72. #72 by One for the books on May 8, 2012

    I would really like to know if Ramos, or any of the other cops on scene, knew that Kelly was schizophrenic?

    There is no doubt about the level of provocation and escalation that took place by Ramos! Notice Kelly is cooperative and calm until Ramos begins to escalate the situation!!

  73. #73 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    “I want to start a class action lawsuit against the city of Fullerton for hiring Cincinelli.”

    Start with McKinley.

  74. #74 by R.D. on May 8, 2012

    You don’t have the right to your name & language.
    You don’t have the right to defend yourself against rogue pigs.
    You don’t have the right to breathe.
    You don’t have the right to paramedics.

    Sickened me to watch Ramos put his arm around his lawyer all day yesterday. Get a room! Sick fuck.

  75. #75 by Nomad on May 8, 2012

    Wrong Guy :

    John Doe :No officers are not wacko experts.

    Speak for your own FPD 6 goons that were present in this video murdering and covering up said murder!!!

    Sadly, the fpd 6 goons belong to all of us, even if we are not residents of your troubled city. If your hound becomes rabid it must be quarantined or put down.

  76. #76 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    I’m really upset at the pro-cop spin almost every major news outlet is putting on the video. Does anyone have any links to decent sources covering the preliminary hearing?

  77. #77 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    The very fact that Ramos plays a torturous word game with Kelly say a lot. After listening to some of the audio and reading the transcript, I don’t think there is any way they did NOT know he was schizophrenic.

  78. #78 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    There’s some “law expert” with a last name of Meier (sp) who insists that Kelly was dangerous because it took 5 officers to subdue him. I want to email him, and say, FPD could’ve handled it with ONE officer. Ramos and Wolfe MANUFACTURED this situation. It’s hard for me to take it all in.

  79. #79 by Peace Keeper on May 8, 2012

    Dan Hughes, if you think “your” officers acted appropriately, then it’s time for you to pack your bags. You sir, are now involved in the cover up of a brutal murder of an innocent man.

    May God be with us all.

  80. #80 by The Fullerton Harpoon on May 8, 2012

    It’s not often that you have the opportunity to watch a nothing situation escalate into a murder.

    And that’s what we have here, make no mistake about that. Now we know why the FPD brass and the Three Slugs didn’t want this getting out.

    And remember this: Danny Hughes is proud of his department.

  81. #81 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    “Dawn Scruggs, a forensic specialist with the Fullerton Police Department, said Ramos was holding his rib cage and was out of breath when she got there. Appearing exhausted, he told her he had never had anyone fight him like that before, she testified.”

    Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/05/08/3600428/testimony-to-continue-at-hearing.html#storylink=cpy

    _____________________________________________________

    He was exhausted because he an out-of-shape, fat, wussy, pig .

  82. #82 by Nomad on May 8, 2012

    My hope is these “rabid dogs” are quarantined for the maximum amount of time that the law allows.

  83. #83 by Fullerton Lover on May 8, 2012

    Watching the back of Ramos and Sissinelli’s head’s yesterday reminded me of what Pinnochio and Lampwick looked like after they started acquiring donkey ears and a tail after spending time at Pleasure Island.

  84. #84 by Amen on May 8, 2012

    Amen to the USA.

  85. #85 by Steve Baxter on May 8, 2012

    The boy who cried Wolfe. Officer Joe Wolfe is Fullerton’s Shame. If any one watched the Video, I’m sorry for you. It’s sick. To anyone who plans to, keep your eye on the second cop on the scene. That’s our Wolfee. Follow him and watch what he does. You are one twisted mf Joe, and there is no way you do not get charged eventually. The DA can still come around with pressure and I’m guessing the FBI has already fitted a state uniform and numeric name tag for you. Tell me Wolfe, has your wife seen this tape yet, have your kids. I bet they can recognize that wide gate of yours by now, even when you are in the shadows. You know that look my wife gives me when I drop the “c” word, or do yet another embarrassing obnoxious thing in public, is that the look your wife gives you when you drive a mans face into concrete three times and with
    you elbow and make it explode? I’m guessing your are running out of dry cleaners in town who are willing to wash the blood off of you. You are a disgrace to all lifeforms, let alone uniform.

  86. #86 by JustUs on May 8, 2012

    When is the next council meeting? Are the public speakers going to call for Chief Dan Hughes’ resignation? Are they going to ask the council to give a no-confidence vote for FPD? All the top brass at FPD watched this video and listened to the audio over and over and over and over again. Yet they allowed the other 4 cops involved in this fatal beating to remain on duty until the public forced them to reconsider and put them on admin leave. These people obviously have the moral fiber and integrity of street criminals. If the Fullerton brass have the backs of the swine who participated in what amounted to a murder of a Fullerton citizen – who else are they protecting??? Is it ‘open season’ on the fine citizens of Fullerton??? Is no one safe anymore??? And why are sworn police officials who are paid $100,000 PLUS by the taxpayers and who can retire at 55 with pensions of $100,000 PLUS allowed to protect criminal thugs who hurt those that they are sworn to serve??? Why???

  87. #87 by One for the books on May 8, 2012

    That meeting should be very interesting!!

  88. #88 by Joe Sipowicz on May 8, 2012

    One of the really appalling things was the way Wolfe and Ramos were harassing Kelly about his name and speaking languages. They knew damn well who they were dealing with, in fact, Ramos says so.

    It’s looking to me like they were responding not to the “burglary” call that they knew was bullshit, but to the call to clear him out and teach him a lesson – at the behest of a local bar.

  89. #89 by JustUs on May 8, 2012

    And remember, Fullerton citizens. It’s not just Ramos, Cicinelli and the other 4 rat pack members. Do you hear any of the other Fullerton cops – or any cops in Orange County for that matter – condemning the actions of these savage animal murderers? I don’t. All the comments I have heard from the very top to the very bottom and been nothing but complicit support. What does that tell you? This is pure gang mentality. Even the cops who seemingly live by a moral code are afraid to come forward and condemn this atrocity – afraid of retribution by the thugs they work with. So all of them are in on it. They even support murder if one of their own commits it in the line of duty. So if they support murder – it stands to reason that they would also turn a blind eye to any injustice committed against a citizen by one of their own. No question that they would back lies. How is Fullerton PD any different from Tijuana PD? Answer: It’s not. In fact, I am of the opinion that Tijuana PD probably lives by a higher moral code than FPD.

  90. #90 by One for the books on May 8, 2012

    Yes, apparently they DID know who Kelly was, as Ramos said so. This appears on the video transcript!

  91. #91 by Nomad on May 8, 2012

    Harrassment of Kelly was a passive agressive tactic used to justify an escalation of force against Kelly. The ominous spinning of the club, belittling and taunting, the exchange of latex gloves between the bloated guy with the little girl arms, wolfe and pie face ramos to illicit a response from Kelly and thus an excuse. I think Kelly, in exhaspiration at the contadictory commands of ramos, finally uttered “I’m tired of playing games” that was all the justification these 2 rabid dogs needed.

  92. #92 by Tracey on May 8, 2012

    I went to bed last night thinking of Kelly and woke up this morning thinking of him. I am so sad for him. He knew he was dying. When he said, I love you dad, I love you dad” he knew he was saying goodbye. he was being bruattly beaten to death by COPS and knew it. All the cops should be in jail. The City Council (except Whittaker), attorneys, City Manager etc… should be immediately removed from their duites. The FPD should be disbanned. Hughes should be fired.

    I am so disgusted, I am pissed off and I am heartbroken.

    The cops knew who Kelly was. He was beaten to DEATH over some perceived stolen mail in his backback, or for maybe looking into cars?? Those cops played judge, jury and executioner. God help us all. We should all be terrified to drive through the streets of Fullerton if this is what can be done to us.

    I implore any athorities in a position do to anything to remove Wolfe and the others from the FPD to please step in and rid our city of this Evil. Please!

  93. #94 by Anonymous on May 8, 2012

    Police might be charge hmm.. Since this was a white guy- blacks- no charge police doing there job.

  94. #95 by Someone should get in contact with this person ASAP! on May 8, 2012

    From Reddit:

    Was driving through Fullerton on way home from Disneyland 2 years ago. Needed gas, pulled off freeway. I was with my wife, two kids, and her brother. MY brother-in-law is deaf (wears a hearing aid), has the mental capacity of a 7 year old and can’t speak. He takes his hearing aid out to get some sleep on the ride home as my kids are loud. Pulling out of the gas station, I broke some law about pulling across lanes of traffic from a driveway so a cop lights us up. Fullerton PD officer approaches my window, ID, registration, proof of insurance. I hand him the license and registration, but still looking for my newest insurance card. I keep coming up with old ones while the officer is calling everything in. He returns, explains what I did wrong. He shines his light into the back at my kids, then at my still sleeping brother-in-law. The cop calls back at him “hey buddy” and gets no response. My wife tells the officer he’s deaf. The cop points his light back on him and says louder “hey buddy!” Just then, her brother wakes up and is a bit freaked out by a light in his face and lets out a wail. My wife says “Bobby, it’s ok, just the police.” He stops but is visibly shaken. The cop is startled and asks if he’s on drugs. Wife says no but it is too late. The cop opens the passenger door and slams him face first into the ground. The cop takes out his taser and starts zapping him as he’s screaming. My kids are screaming and my wife is yelling at the cop that he is deaf and can’t hear any orders as his hearing aid isn’t in. The Fullerton officer starts choking him with his night stick and then he’s lifeless. The officer continues stomping on his back as more cops joined in. Once he was in cuffs, even though he was out cold, we were told to be on our way as he was arrested on drug charges and resisting arrest.

    The next day we filed a complaint. The charges were dropped and my wife tried to sue the Fullerton PD officers on her behalf but because her brother was a ward of the state and he couldn’t testify no lawyer would take it.

    The Kelly Thomas murder brought it all back.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/tcs6n/shocking_video_of_kelly_thomas_beating_death/c4ljubb

  95. #96 by Mainjet on May 8, 2012

    I think I will drive around the boundaries of Fullerton until they replace these Nazis.

  96. #97 by peaches on May 8, 2012

    Next scheduled meeting should be May 15, 2012 at 6:30 p.m.

    Agenda should be up May 11, 2012

  97. #98 by Jeff on May 8, 2012

    I just couldn’t watch it. I have been anticipating the video in hope for some justice for Kelly but lets hope this puts the nail in the coffin.

    If you want an idea of cops challenging other cops and what happens. Listen to this story of an Louisiana PD.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lqTnio6g0I

  98. #99 by peaches on May 8, 2012

    If it’s Martin Mayer, he’s a City-sponsored/paid attorney – in fact, Fullerton City Attorney “Dick” Jones is or was a partner in the same law firm…

    Obviously toeing the party line for his City of Fullerton patrons

  99. #100 by Through different eyes on May 8, 2012

    I thought I heard the name Kelly Thomas spoken early on in the video, listen again.

  100. #101 by David Bailey on May 8, 2012

    I was thinking the same thing….

  101. #102 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    You did! They knew who he was and then kept pretending that they didn’t know just to be able to escalate the situation to an arrest, which they turned into a murder. It was all a ploy by Ramos and Wolfe. It’s so sickeningly obvious now.

  102. #103 by Joe Sipowicz on May 8, 2012

    Yep.

  103. #104 by Richard Winton @LAcrimes - LA Times crime writer on May 8, 2012

    Judge in Kelly Thomas case preliminary hearing use to work for DA Tony R. Small world.

    http://twitter.com/#!/LAcrimes/status/199587109328265216

  104. #105 by WJRob on May 8, 2012

    I know that wanting to beat the $%@#$% out of the cops makes me no better than them, but that is how I feel right now. If you can do this to another human you forfeit your rights as one which makes you no better than a cockroach. I have no problems stepping on cockroaches.

  105. #106 by Dove on May 8, 2012

    I sincerely hope these officers go to jail for life and never ever be given the authority by any city to kill again, and shame on Fullerton cities Joel Felz for helping distorting the facts . And for all you bad cops out there I will be watching you. I weep when I hear this young man crying out for God and his father to help him I pray that no ones son well ever have to go through this. I asked everyone with the camera to keep them rolling and filming for bad cops like these two. To the Thomas family my heart goes out to you.

  106. #107 by WJRob on May 8, 2012

    you are an ass!

  107. #108 by Richard Winton @LAcrimes - LA Times crime writer on May 8, 2012

    Trauma surgeon still on cross. Ramos Atty is about to examine tape w surgeon. Probably going to s third day in Prelim

    http://twitter.com/#!/LAcrimes

  108. #109 by Fullerton Rudy on May 8, 2012

    Kelly was just a human target to the cowards Ramos and Wolfe. Cicinelli was there to deliver the death blows.

    It looks like an assasination.

  109. #110 by WJRob on May 8, 2012

    john doe you are an ass!

  110. #111 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    No, I think it is you who sounds stupid.

  111. #112 by Erik Wehn on May 8, 2012

    You’re correct, it was a captain.

    What policies are you talking about? I worked for the COF, my dad worked for the COF for 34 years, I have friends including cops who currently work for the COF and I am not familiar with a policy forbidding them from saying negative things about the city. That would be draconian even for the COF.
    Besides that, saying a cop screwed up and he’s pissed wouldn’t be a comment against the city, but a comment against a city employee.

  112. #113 by Through different eyes on May 8, 2012

    I thought I heard that, the name “Kelly Thomas” spoken on the video.

    I am still shaking a day after watching the video.

  113. #114 by Fred Alcazar on May 8, 2012

    Of course they did. He hung around downtown Fullerton ll the time.

  114. #115 by Marsha on May 8, 2012

    Isn’t that what you are taught at cop school 101?
    Shout “stop resisting” all the while you are beating someone, just in case it is caught on video? Good learners, these a**holes.

  115. #116 by M.U.R. on May 8, 2012

    Well, after seeing the video, I have to honestly say I believe KT was being pretty belligerent and uncooperative.

    You could hear the exasperation in Wolfe’s voice as he said, “Come on, just sit down so we can do this and you can go to sleep and we can go about our business”.

    The literal and figurative nail in his coffin was getting up and walking away from Ramos (after saying “I’m sick of playing games”). I believe the beating was directly attributable to that fact more than anything.

    Nothing justifies the beating he suffered, and I believe the cops guilty of excess force should be charged.

    I’m probably going to be called coplicker, RI, Goodrich, troll, etc for espousing an opinion that goes against the grain but oh well. Not sorry. Bring it.

  116. #117 by Justice for ALL on May 8, 2012

    I don’t know how Dan Hughes can sleep at night. I’m beginning to believe that it is a REQUIREMENT to be a sociopath and a liar in order to be hired as a “peace officer” and especially to get promoted. If you are not a sociopath and a liar, or if you don’t just keep your mouth shut and smile, you will soon be kicked out of the FPD blue boys’ club of bullies and murderers, shiny badges, tasers, bullets, nightsticks, Pobar, free food and drinks at the Slide Bar, D.A. protection and early retirement.

  117. #118 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    “Well, after seeing the video, I have to honestly say I believe KT was being pretty belligerent and uncooperative.”

    Huh? Belligerent in what way? How could he cooperate when Ramos was playing language games with him?

  118. #119 by Mmm thats good on May 8, 2012

    So much double talk from this coplicker, its not funny.

    I have to honestly say I believe KT was being pretty belligerent and uncooperative.

    Nothing justifies the beating he suffered

    …There you have it. These coplicking sociopaths can’t help themselves.

  119. #120 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    He knew Kelly was having a difficult time understanding what he wanted him to do.

  120. #121 by the reckoning is coming on May 8, 2012

    I challenge ANYONE to watch the video and not feel dirty.

    Watching a murder. An innocent man. A gang of thugs. Thugs feel zero remorse. Man cries for help. Man cries for Daddy. Thugs feel zero empathy. Thugs take delight in this EVIL.

    Kelly Thomas will not have died in vain. His life was taken so that others might be saved. A harbinger of things to come. The people will take control back of their city. WE WILL NEVER FORGET. The gang of thugs will be reformed. WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO KELLY THOMAS. MURDER.

    The FEDS will not forget, either. The case is slowly being built. The cover-up will be exposed, just like this murder has been exposed. FPD, the reckoning is coming. REPENT BEFORE ITS TOO LATE. May God have mercy on your souls.

  121. #122 by Through different eyes on May 8, 2012

    The two words I fear the most; “Stop resisting”.

  122. #123 by Justice for ALL on May 8, 2012

    Cathy Thomas could not have stopped those cold blooded murderers from murdering her son on July 5, 2011. I feel guilty that you, -John Doe, and other badge wearing officers, who share your same arrogant, murder excusing attitudes are still employed by the FPD.

  123. #124 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    “You could hear the exasperation in Wolfe’s voice as he said, “Come on, just sit down so we can do this and you can go to sleep and we can go about our business”.”

    Come on, just sit down so we can arrest you and we can go about our business.

    Come on, just sit down so we can beat the shit out of you and we can go about our business.

    Come on, just sit down so we can kill you and we can go about our business.

    Come on, just sit down so we can get rid of you once and for all…and we can go to the Slidebar after our shifts. Free drinks for life! Yeah!

  124. #125 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    I totally agree with you Jane H.

    When I first started watching the video, I listened to Kelly be argumentative with the cops in the initial minutes, and thought to myself, “Ok, he’s being a little non cooperative…”

    THEN, I put that in the context of him having schizophrenia and it changes things. THEN I put it in the context of the officers continually trying to get him to do things, and repeating statement / questions over and over again. In that context I asked myself, “Ok, if I was a cop and my ‘suspect’ was sitting still on the curb why would I continually give him orders to change his sitting position… unless I wanted to purposely add anxiety to the situation.”

    If Ramos and Wolfe really just wanted to talk to Kelly and look through the back pack, Ramos could have said, just keep your legs out like that and sit still. I think that’s within professional reason, but no, Ramos kept barking at him about his hand and leg position etc.

    M.U.R. posted a comment below that irritated me because I believe that person doesn’t really give credence to the rest of the context within the video. I DO know that professional police officers do not twirl batons or needlessly provoke those with whom they wish to talk.

  125. #126 by Kelly Thomas: Medics, not cops, to blame for death, defense says on May 8, 2012

  126. #127 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    I know this might not be popular, but I almost thought that Wolfe was saying that more for Ramos’ benefit. I thought at first he was more exasperated with his partner than Kelly Thomas. Like, hey lets just finish this and move on Ramos…. But then he turned into this sociopath killing machine. I don’t understand it. What do you think?

  127. #128 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    Everything you said, and then some.

    The baton twirling was excessive.

    I don’t even think I could do what they were asking me to do.

    Legs out…hands on knees…what language do you speak?

    That was a game meant to taunt him.

  128. #129 by M.U.R. on May 8, 2012

    Self fulfilling prophecy was self fulfilling.

    Do I believe Wolfe & Ramos intended to kill KT from the very outset (as most of you seem to)? Absolutely not.

    Do I believe they intended to kick the crap out of him to the point where he’d “get the message” and leave town? Yes.

    Do I believe they intended to beat him to the point of death? No-with the exception of J.Cicinelli.

    @ Mmm That’s G: analyze THAT with your piss-poor excuse for armchair quarterback psychology.

  129. #130 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    I think one of the most disturbing lines from the transcript for me was when Cicinelli point blank says that they ran out of options so he had to probably smash his face all to hell. Just the lack of remorse is mind blowing.

  130. #131 by brandi on May 8, 2012

    Kelly was crying for help. He was crying out loudly that he would comply. How do you force your body to go limp when you’re being beaten to death? I don’t think it’s even possible to not attempt shielding your body while it’s being beaten. He was never even given a chance. #JusticeForKellyThomas

  131. #132 by L Murray on May 8, 2012

    The Genaco “report” is worthless. Everybody knew it was going to support the FPD 100% before he started. Another lawyer that backs up the police no matter what they do or how bad it is. He’s a bad joke just like his “report.”

  132. #133 by For the record on May 8, 2012

    A homicide resulting from the commission of a felony is murder. Look it up in the California Criminal Code.

    Intending to beat a man who’s done nothing wrong is clearly battery, which is a felony.

    Death resulting from intentional battery is murder. I think we should just leave it at that. It’s terrible enough.

  133. #134 by L Murray on May 8, 2012

    If you watch the video and see him take the first swing, apparently it’s ok to take a swing like you’re batting a ball out of the park,

  134. #135 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    “Do I believe they intended to beat him to the point of death? No-with the exception of J.Cicinelli.”

    Then why didn’t they stop when Kelly stopped moving?
    Do they lack self-control?

    Kelly began to walk away because it looked like all they were doing was playing with him. Like it was a big joke!

  135. #136 by Tracey on May 8, 2012

    I agree. It is mind-blowing.

  136. #137 by DARRELL on May 8, 2012

    As I watched this video I counted no less than six officers that should be charged for murder! Kelly Thomas was begging for His life & His request fell on the deaf ears of tubs of lard who are suppose to protect & serve! I believe the entire FPD should be shut down & the Orange County sherrif should take over! The fact that Kelly said I’m sorry over & over tells me that He had a good heart & was raised right!

  137. #138 by Marsha on May 8, 2012

    I thought the same. I guess once it started escalating he couldn’t resist.

  138. #139 by Mmm thats good on May 8, 2012

    armchair quarterback

    Classic coplicker talking point.

    When these coplicking sociopaths aren’t double talking, they’re using talking points like “armchair quarterbacking”, “You weren’t there”, “I’m not going to try this in the court of public opinion”, “Lets wait until all of the facts come out”, “Police officers have a tough job”, “A few bad apples”, “If he had just complied none of this would have happened”, “He brought this upon himself”, “Don’t call 911 next time you need help”, “Its a thankless job”.

    Typical coplicker m.o: Double talk, Deny, Dismiss, Distract and Repeat.

    You can’t logically argue with these thugs.

  139. #140 by Marsha on May 8, 2012

    They beat poor Kelly Thomas with batons, tasers, kneed him in the chest, and the hospital is to blame for his death? Sickening. He wouldn’t have needed a hospital if not for these a@@holes.

  140. #141 by Ted From Tennessee on May 8, 2012

    I was shocked to see how overweight all those officers appeared to be. I wondered if they had any physical standards to be a policeman at all in Fullerton.

    They must have weighed twelve or thirteen hundred pounds between the five that piled on.

  141. #142 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    And please disregard the part concerning M.U.R. I was typing too quickly.

  142. #143 by L Murray on May 8, 2012

    When the new council is elected, assuming they are better than what’s currently their, meaning the three and the double tongued woman who speaks from both sides of her face, they should fire Jones and his cronies as city lawyers and hire someone else.

  143. #144 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    At the very least I hope they use this defense because it is so absolutely weak.

  144. #145 by brandi on May 8, 2012

    Tracey :
    I went to bed last night thinking of Kelly and woke up this morning thinking of him. I am so sad for him. He knew he was dying. When he said, I love you dad, I love you dad” he knew he was saying goodbye.!

    This plagued my sleep as well. Though I am fortunate in being able to GO to sleep and wake up – while Thomas Kelly is not. I’ll take the nightmares and try to be the voice that he lost.

    The world must demand justice for the life that was brutally stolen from him. The Judge, Jury and Attorney’s have a duty to enforce this Justice. If they can’t see it – perhaps they should all share the same cell.

  145. #146 by L Murray on May 8, 2012

    BAN THE SLIDEBAR It’s a cop hangout supposedly, make it so they’re its only customers

  146. #147 by Martin on May 8, 2012

    What is most disturbing is the audio portion of the video….I can’t imagine the grief and sorrow the Thomas family must feel.

  147. #148 by Tracey on May 8, 2012

    I agree Brandi. I am thankful that I was able to put my children to bed last night. I am so tremendously sad for Kelly. Even in the transcripts he says something like, “only five minutes ago I was sitting on a bus bench”. His life was turned upside down and brutally beaten out of him in minutes! IN MINUTES!!!!! WE SHOULD NOT STAND FOR THIS! I beg for someone to do something. Shut down the FPD.

  148. #149 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    I re-read the article, his name is Steven Meister. Just a standard random news “expert” who is not related to the case but spouts nonsense. But his take was BAD (very flawed logically) even for a standard media sound bite.

  149. #150 by Through different eyes on May 8, 2012

    What struck me personally was that even in the pain he was in, he said “sir”
    “please”, “I’m sorry”, those are kind words, but “Sir”, to me that is a whole different level of attitude.

    “Sir”

    “Sir”is a term I use to show respect and Kelly used this word speaking to those who were hurting him!

    Speaks VOLUMES to me.

  150. #151 by L Murray on May 8, 2012

    Actually calling these guys Nazi’s, and I have too, is almost insulting to the Nazi’s…:)

  151. #152 by truthseeker on May 8, 2012

    This was a plain and simple INTENTIONAL escalation. In the beginning it looks like they are getting along just fine. Where is Ramos’s DAR the whole time and where is the audio at the beginning? Why is this thing so unclear? What kind of resolution do you call that? This thing reeks to high heaven. What a sickening end to a needless and an unnecessary escalation of force. They just got caught this time on film on their camera-their own-which in my opinion has been edited. The world is watching. We are in uncharted territory on this one.

  152. #153 by Anonymous on May 8, 2012

    you can clearly see the cop take his left arm and pull behind his back. all he was doing was braising his self so his face doesnt hit the ground lets not forget he is mentally ill. take another look and maybe you can see he was not resisting just scared.

  153. #154 by Nomad on May 8, 2012

    Clicked on link to L.A. times blog, Supreme court ruled on mon. that Leeroy Baca could be sued over a stabbing in his jail as he is the supervisor, he is accountable. Could this ruleing have any ramifications as far as the Kelly Thomas case is concerned? If this goes to trial and the rabid dogs found guilty could former chief sellers be named in lawsuit?

  154. #155 by OCLove on May 8, 2012

    Yes, that is so telling about the mentality of these gorillas.

  155. #156 by OCLove on May 8, 2012

    Tony RackCOCKus is a shitface for not releasing this sooner.
    He did it only to avoid civil unrest at the outrage of this savage killing of a citizen.
    And he’s only taking this case to make himself look good.
    Fire his ass at relection.

  156. #157 by OCLove on May 8, 2012

    Yes, the baton twirling at the beginning is uncalled for. Fat fuck.

  157. #158 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    Amy Taxin has written this entirely pro-FPD article and it’s making my stomach turn. Here are some quotes:

    “Moments later, Ramos snaps on latex gloves and threatens to take on the mentally ill homeless man.”

    Really? I thought he said these fists are going to fuck you up… Huh. Then she writes,

    “Thomas said he forgot his name and didn’t sit with his feet stretched out in front of him, as police had ordered.”

    That first statement is misleading and the second is an all out LIE. He DID sit with his feet outstretched but he kept changing positions because Ramos kept yelling at him about his HANDS too. I guess this reporter couldn’t be bothered to watch the whole video let alone report on it correctly.

    I am so angry at these kinds of reporters. I wish there was better coverage of what’s going on right now.

  158. #159 by 1776blues on May 8, 2012

    Its amazing, but not surprising, the cops kept asking one another what they wanted to do. Hell, if they don’t know procedure then the only conclusion is they were preparing their defense.

    For the life of me how anyone who thinks this was justifiable I’d like to know how they would expect a person to breathe and follow commands with several hundred pounds of pork mauling a person.

    It is clear who set the stage of what transpired when the first cop elected to swing his night stick striking Kelly.

    Anyone fighting for their life will resist especially if you can’t breathe. And is it me or were all those cops in need of enrolling in weight watchers.

    Those in power are looking at any opportunity to impose martial law and a violent revolt against this is not an option as it plays right into their hands.

    All the cops on the scene need to be fired and put on trial.

  159. #160 by Little City SD on May 8, 2012

    The cops involved should be punished within the same laws they are attempting to hide behind. They used ruthlessness to convey their anger to an innocent man and now he has no voice except for the public sympathy outcry in which he can rest assured that we will not allow this type of violence to go unnoticed and or unpunished. If the video and cover-up are not enough to make each one of us as individuals step back into reality and see the crime of Murder that has been executed right in front of our own eyes & homes by a group that is sworn to honor, trust and obey, then perhaps the call out from a grown man in desperation looking for help from his only viable source his father and God will be enough to make everyone realize that this act of violence did not just happen to a grown man it happened to a little child, the small child inside Kelly Thomas that was crying for help from his only source of protection his father and his brought up religious beliefs in God. I feel for the family, I feel for the public and I feel for the police officers who do the right thing everyday and are now unjustly criticized for the wrong doing of a few that has effected so many, but most of all I feel for the young man and inner child that just wanted the opportunity to be free and live life with all it’s offerings good and bad that have now been taken away so abruptly that he now will never know of what he could have achieved and his inner child succumbed to a violent death. Please do not allow Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli to go free and kill another innocent person.

  160. #161 by Survcast on May 8, 2012

    Here is a survey on the video / article that was just released: http://survcast.com/Newly-Released-Surveillance-Video-Shows-Police-Officers-Brutally-Beating-Suffocating-and-Tasing-Kelly-Thomas-to-Death-Hit-Run-Reasoncom

    Please vote your opinion and share it!

  161. #162 by Shimon Mendel on May 8, 2012

    Travis – The tape was evidence. City Atty didn’t want it released; DA didn’t want it released until it was introduced as evidence. The ‘right of citizens’ is limited. As well meaning as you may be, if you get to be on the Council, you too will be constrained by ‘advise from counsel’. Back in July and August, the biggest sins were the Chief of Police paid leave for uncontrolled hypertension; the police willfully giving the media false information; as well as the Council simply keeping its collective mouth shut — their was nothing they could constructively add. I’m amused at most of the nine candidates running in the recall stating that the Council should have apologized and/or as Hakim wanted ‘begged the family for forgiveness’ all in the FULLERTON OBSERVER.

  162. #163 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    I would like for everyone thinking about participating in this survey to read the questions first. Survey question number 5 is false and misleading. Ron Thomas was NOT able to put out information before the public information officer. It does NOT address that the POI was the first one to put out INTENTIONALLY FALSE information. The media is treating this terribly.

  163. #164 by Nomad on May 8, 2012

    l e o in NY sentenced to 75 years for sexual assault. Bad time to be a dirty l e o!

  164. #165 by Lifesaving Service on May 8, 2012

    News Media is mostly Liberal and probably very Pro Public Union sniffers.

  165. #166 by Shimon Mendel on May 8, 2012

    You mean they receive no training and 10 yrs of patrol experience wouldn’t teach a patrol officer what a mentally impaired might act like? These officers would have been very comfortable working as SS guards in Auschwitz.

  166. #167 by Travis Kiger on May 8, 2012

    Wrong. In the days after the attack, a prudent council would have demanded to exercise the authority inhered to them by the residents of Fullerton by viewing the video in closed session. The video was (and still is) the property of the city of Fullerton, legally viewable by members of the council. There was no court seal at the time, and they could have watched just as many of the city employees had done. The city attorney eventually admitted that this was an option, although it took about six months for him to do so.

    Once they had seen this video, they should have immediately removed all six officers from duty, instead of leaving them at large for another month to incite even more fear amongst the residents of Fullerton.

  167. #168 by Fullerton Rudy on May 8, 2012

    They where only “constrained” by legal counsel because they wanted to be. That’s what they wanted.

    Travis is right. And I’ll bet my last dollar McKinley watched the video, probably in the company of the offenders themselves.

  168. #169 by Jt on May 8, 2012

    Exactly.

    They could have gone further than that. A truly concerned city council could have collectively decided that the police department represented a real threat to the general welfare of the citizens of Fullerton and anybody else who passed through our town. They could have formally requested that the Special Litigation Section of the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice open an investigation into a pattern of police misconduct which predated the Kelly Thomas killing, which the council should have made it its business to be informed about. They could have held open hearings on other citizen claims of police brutality. They could have gone to the media directly. They could have insisted that those providing false information to the media (Goodrich) be removed from his position.

  169. #170 by larry on May 8, 2012

    What a couple of sic f()ken people. Not to mention the others involved. This happens all over the USA all of the time. Not every one dies but enough do.

    These two pigs, yes I said pigs, need to be locked up for the rest of their lifes. The others need to be punished too. Not one of these cops put a halt to it. So they are all gilty.

    Who the hell are you to trust these days?

  170. #171 by Shimon Mendel on May 8, 2012

    Yeah, you’re an asshole. The idea is to CONTROL the suspect, not beat him to death. The idea is to get him into custody, not kill him. These officers were so clearly out of control, no initial ‘belligerence’ justifies their actions.

  171. #172 by Shimon Mendel on May 8, 2012

    Shimon Mendel :Yeah, you’re an asshole. The idea is to CONTROL the suspect, not beat him to death. The idea is to get him into custody, not kill him. These officers were so clearly out of control, no initial ‘belligerence’ justifies their actions.

    This is for M.U.R.

  172. #173 by truthseeker on May 8, 2012

    Those that failed to act put the public in danger and increased tensions even more leading to the demise of this current council with the exception of Bruce. We are very fortunate nothing else happened at the hands of those rogue officers in the interim. Now it appears that those officers will become convicted felons and be terminated.

  173. #174 by For the record on May 8, 2012

    If what you’re saying is true, officers viewing the video 400 times while writing a report were tampering with evidence, which is a felony.

    I find your amusement disturbing and inhuman. You shouldn’t be amused at anything associated with the council in the last 8 months.

  174. #175 by OCLove on May 8, 2012

    it’s too bad that bar that celebrates OC bands turned into a dump bro and cop hangout.
    fuck slidebar

  175. #176 by DEATH FROM FAR AWAY on May 8, 2012

    4 Shots………cease to exist.

  176. #177 by Jt on May 8, 2012

    Its not great coverage but at least it includes this line:

    “The video shown on Monday seems to confirm what many Fullerton residents have been saying for almost a year now: that police used excessive force to subdue Thomas.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/08/kelly-thomas-beating-video_n_1499771.html

  177. #178 by Watching From Afar on May 8, 2012

    I completely agree, MUR. I’ve been watching this case sporadically over the past year and I don’t have any personal beefs or biases against FPD like so many on this blog. I’m completely neutral because I’m not looking to cash in on a civil suit or trying to get myself elected by pandering to a vocal minority. But after watching the video, it appears to me the DA’s case is weak and the outrage overstated.

    Ramos had to repeat himself several times when asking Kelly to keep his hands on his knees and his feet out in front. Kelly was indeed being mildly belligerent and a smart ass. When Ramos warned him that he was going to fuck him up if he didn’t start listening and thus stop being a smart ass, Kelly didn’t react with fear like the DA said. In fact, Kelly escalated the situation by challenging Ramos to start swinging. It was only when Ramos finally lost his temper and grabbed Kelly by the back of the neck did Kelly stand up, square up against the cops, and refused to sit back down did the fight begin.

    Now I read lots of Monday morning quarterbacks on this blog deriding the cops’ inability to subdue a 140 pound person (his actual weight swings wildly, probably to exaggerate for effect) without resorting to fighting. I challenge all of you to try and put handcuffs on someone that doesn’t want to be handcuffed and see how well that works for you. Pick a partner and then the two of you try and handcuff someone that doesn’t want to be handcuffed and see how long it takes you to become completely fatigued. If you are lucky, the person you are trying to cuff gets tired first. I guarantee most if not all of you have never been involved in a legit street fight and so you have no idea how physically draining it is and how quickly someone in even reasonable physical conditioning will tire in a real fight – not pushing and shoving, but stand up striking and grappling on the ground. I saw Kelly’s hospital pictures and I didn’t see a malnourished person…..I didn’t see ribs poking through his skin or muscle atrophy. I saw a man in pretty good physical condition, probably as a result of constantly being on the move. BJ Penn fights at 150 pounds and he could knock you out with one punch and a beer in the other hand.

  178. #179 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    “Kelly was indeed being mildly belligerent and a smart ass.”

    He was mentally ill, and they knew it. That changes everything.

    It was not a level playing field, which is why LE is supposed to be trained in how to handle them, without violence!

    You sound rather callous.

  179. #180 by Johnny Donut on May 8, 2012

    BJ Penn? Comparing Kelly Thomas to a pro MMA fighter is a new low.

  180. #181 by For the record on May 8, 2012

    A) You’re an idiot.

    B) You’re completely missing the point. The officers had no legal basis to detain Kelly Thomas. If a cop walks up to you on the street and tells you to sit on the curb, you’re well within your rights to tell him/her to go fuck themselves. The officer does not have a right to beat you to death in return. The country you’re thinking of is Nazi Germany. We won the war. They didn’t.

    C) There was no reason that the two officers needed to subdue Kelly Thomas at that particular moment. Backup was less than 5 minutes away and they could have waited. They chose not to. This shows an incredible lack of awareness to their own situation. It’s incompetent at best, negligent at worst. Furthermore, neither officer attempted to peacefully subdue Kelly Thomas. Show me the video clip where Ramos gets out his cuffs and asks Kelly to put his hands behind his back before they started kicking this shit out of him. Show me the video where they read him his rights. Show me the video where he’s being told he’s being arrested. It doesn’t exist.

    D) I would love to put some handcuffs on you. I bet I could with five of my friends. I bet you wouldn’t be dead afterwards. I bet you’d be fine and I’d bet we wouldn’t be that tired.

    E) Clearly you did not see Kelly Thomas’s hospital photos. His broken ribs most certainly were poking through his skin. Asshole.

    F) BJ Penn, at 150 pounds, could have subdued Kelly Thomas, gotten him in cuffs, and not killed him.

    G) Blaming the victim will place you in a very special circle of hell. I hope you enjoy it.

  181. #182 by For the record on May 8, 2012

    No it doesn’t. If Kelly Thomas was fully mentally competent and was being belligerent and a smart ass, the 6 cops still would be murders.

    A badge does not give an officer the right to detain you against your will. Only committing a crime does that.

  182. #183 by Justice for ALL on May 8, 2012

    Thank you and AMEN.

  183. #184 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    I agree with you. I only meant that it really wasn’t a level playing field, and they knew Kelly didn’t understand.

    That is just one of the things that make them (FPD) so despicable.

  184. #185 by Old Timer on May 8, 2012

    “Square up?”

    No he stood up and backed away with his hands palm outward – s sign of submission.

    You are a sack of porcine excrement.

  185. #186 by Anonymous on May 8, 2012

    Monday morning quarterbacks

    Another coplicker talking point. Forgot that one.

    You Baghadad Bobs are so predictable.

  186. #187 by truthseeker on May 8, 2012

    You are indeed correct.This is a very dangerous situation in Fullerton. The stakes are extremely high. Restraint is key. They are frothing at the mouth for an excuse to move on the people. Case and point look how the jackals descended on Kelly. This is a glimpse of how a militarized police force will treat “civilians” We are citizens not “civilians” or are we an occupied country? Time will definitely tell.

  187. #188 by truthseeker on May 8, 2012

    Amy interviewed me after one council meeting when the Genacco report was delivered. Not one peep of the 5 minutes or so she spent with me. Same thing then-party line. EVERY MEDIA OUTLET IN THE COUNTRY RAN THE SAME TAG LINE. I obviously espoused views that logically contradict the lies and the disinformation. The media is so obviously controlled in this country as they force feed us propaganda. A few years ago they would spoon feed it to us and now they are literally jamming it down our throats.

  188. #189 by Concerned Californian on May 8, 2012

    The jury will give those fools the same mercy those fools gave Kelly.

  189. #190 by Concerned Californian on May 8, 2012

    The lifes of those officers are in the hands of those “drama queens” now, lol. Now they have the power over those green light murderous fools.

  190. #191 by Concerned Californian on May 8, 2012

    Cinnsilly and Ramos’s bosses’ bosses’, bosses’, boss, is pulling the strings now and I am thinking the boss is mad.

  191. #192 by Concerned Californian on May 8, 2012

    Ramos, and Jay, are fucked! By by boys, hope you enjoy your stay. YOu might find a guard that has it in for you, hope he doesn’t beat on you and gets a scratch.

  192. #193 by tina on May 8, 2012

    Another disgusting Fullerton Police beat down. I am so sorry for your brother-in-law, you and your family for having to experience such a horrific thing. Wish you could have won in court and maybe other rogue sadistic cops would be off the streets.

  193. #194 by Concerned Californian on May 8, 2012

    It’s a bad time to be a dirty cop, and drunk with power makes for stiff sentences. Oh and don’t forget those parole hearings, sorry boys, that won’t work in your case. Kellys’ heros will be there to make sure you stay in.

  194. #195 by Concerned Californian on May 8, 2012

    Conviction + Recall = Disbandment

    Have fun looking for a new job, with blood stains on your record.

  195. #196 by peaches on May 8, 2012

    Inasmuch as “hard hitting” reporter Lou Ponsi and/or the OCR haven’t updated this afternoon’s events – I offer this from KPCC

    Later in the day, attorneys questioned the Orange County pathologist who performed the Thomas’ autopsy. Dr. Aruna Singhania reviewed images from the report and identified the mentally ill homeless man’s injuries.

    Thomas’ father, Ron Thomas, left the courtroom before the graphic photos were displayed. Defendant Cincinelli turned away and Ramos looked at the screen only once during the cross examination.

    Follow KPCC’s Ed Joyce on Twitter for updates from today’s preliminary hearing.

  196. #197 by daniel on May 8, 2012

    I have never been so upset! It kills me when Kelly can barely breath calling out for his dad. All cops involved need to stand trial for murder!

  197. #198 by Concerned Californian on May 8, 2012

    I bet Ramos’ Family could be investigated by the FBI. His demeanor suggests a climate family organized crime, I remember when news broke out he was in charge, his family started to call KFI, and blogging on this site, an anti-smear campaign. Well the cats out of the bag now,

    Conviction + recall + disbandment+civil lawsuites = FBI investigation.

    Orange county won’t tollerate Mafia families.

  198. #199 by Justice for ALL on May 8, 2012

    Cincinelli and Ramos are too cowardly to even look at their own murderous handiwork.

  199. #200 by merijoe on May 8, 2012

    Got home from the hearing about an hour ago-The UCI doctor did extremely well and refused to be intimidated as Barnyard Barnett kept hounding him asking the same question in other ways fifty times-then Schwartz (cici’s lawyer) started on him and spoke real fast and basically asked him the same questions as Barnett.
    Barnett was ruthless and annoying as he grilled the doctor about what his opinion was about hypoxia, did Kelly have hypoxia, could it have been something other than hypoxia, what are the symptoms of hypoxia, how long does it take for a person to develop hypoxia-then he asked about mechanical compression, did the DA tell him to say Mechanical compression as a cause of death, how much weight does it take to develop mechanical compression death (whereby doctor answered, “as much as it takes”), Then stupid Barnett played the video tape again, this time, frame by frame, asking the doctor to say stop when he thought Kelly was at a point of losing consciousness and when he thought mechanical compression started as he had the fatties on top of him (whereby the doctor said “I’d say every where”) Barnette was trying to get the doctor to say the Mechanical compression thing was due to paramedics CPR-so was Schwartz.

    As I left, Barnett was badgering the pathologist who wasnt taking any of his crapola.

    I also found out that Jill Cicinelli (the sister) had cornered some of Kelly’s Army in the bathroom yesterday and called them “bitches”. (no one reacted to this-if that was, indeed, the hope of Barnett)

  200. #201 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    Restraining order? I’m fed up with the trolls around here and I am absolutely outraged that the same trolls would attack grieving people of this community that way. And in the bathroom no less. Thank you so much MJ for the information. I greatly appreciate it.

  201. #202 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    She called them bitches without provocation?

    A little defensive?

  202. #203 by merijoe on May 8, 2012

    Nada, Jane. Nada

    Oh yeah, and thank you Barnett for showing that horrible tape frame by frame-even the baliffs were crying-I was a mess and someone told me even Cici was tearing up (really), a few people stayed out of the room. I didn’t realize he was going to play the thing with the sound.

  203. #204 by Jane H on May 8, 2012

    Sounds like a Cicinelli family thing.

    I’m so glad you went. I know there were a lot of people there. Thank God for Kelly’s Army.

    I couldn’t go, but I’ve been following.

  204. #205 by We Are All One on May 8, 2012

    Thanks merijoe for the update. I’m not surprised at Barnett’s line of questioning. He has no case and is starting off weak and desperate. He has no chance.

  205. #206 by merijoe on May 8, 2012

    Praise God Ron and Cathy and Dana have a lot of support with KA-a bunch were out and I’m sure there will be for as long as the hearing goes on.

    Probably pissed off Jill

  206. #207 by Concerned Texan on May 8, 2012

    Some troll was going off about how there were hardly any people in the court room today as if it were substantially less than yesterday. He said that only family members were there. That’s complete BS right?

  207. #208 by merijoe on May 8, 2012

    Absoultely. I couldn’t see everyone but 3 and 1/2 rows were filled with KA and the Thomas family there are approx 10-12 seats in a row. Toward 3pm some left-but not all-there were still quite a few there.

    Combined Cici and Ramos had equal or a little less

    Lying trolls.

  208. #209 by We Are All One on May 8, 2012

    I’m not concerned with Jill and her warped attitude and bias for her brother. I care that justice is served. Ron, Cathy and Dana know they have support from people who can’t be there. There is worldwide support for Kelly.

  209. #210 by merijoe on May 8, 2012

    WAAO-yes to all your post-The Thomas’s were very courageous today, as always….Love to them and whatever I can do to help assist them to getting closer to that justice they deserve. Garo was sitting next to Ron with his computer, entering like crazy…he’s smart and driven.

  210. #211 by Reality Is on May 8, 2012

    Courtroom was the same both days. Packed.

    This isn’t even a trial. Trial will be nuts. So dramatic, energized, emotional, interesting already. Love it.

    Imagine if someone charged with murder sits in jail through this whole process? Wow.

    See ya tomorrow. Big day. Awesome.

  211. #212 by merijoe on May 8, 2012

    One of the Army found some reporter notes yesterday (she found them in the special roped off “media” section)

    on the front of the notes the reporter (whoever it was) wrote “Who is the asshole Wolfe?” and “Barnett is a moron”

    Wonder if we’ll ever see that in an article.

  212. #213 by merijoe on May 8, 2012

    Oh yeah, what happened today? Who did they crossexamine? When did they get a chance to break? Where did Wolfe sit? Where did Wolfe sit?

  213. #214 by blessusall on May 8, 2012

    As indicated by the trolls’ comments, perhaps the max IQ requirement for Fullerton LEOs is what is called a low-max (nothing above 104) and obviously there is no minimum IQ requirement to be a police officer in Fullerton. This might explain the problem with counting and seeing “hardly any” people in a packed courtroom. Just saying.

  214. #215 by merijoe on May 8, 2012

    I didn’t want to mention this right away… they showed autopsy pics

  215. #216 by fullertonpd=keystonescops on May 8, 2012

    A cop is a cop is a cop. Those that are disgusted with these actions will never admit it period. So we can stop trying to get that out of them. They are not cut of the same cloth as “regular” citizens. They think they are above all and the attitude always comes through. 90% of the time you will encounter attitude from the police before they encounter from you, fact! This style is taught from the academy. They always feel as though they have the toughest job around, its tough, but there is much tougher and dangerous jobs. See farmer. These cops @ Fullerton were taught out of their academy to always be on the defensive or you will show signs of weakness, time and time again. When a cop takes his/her training properly they know never approach a situation aggressively, be firm but not agressive. If you do the situation can only go up and never come down. Fact! These are not policeman we are talking about, they set that aside as soon as fat boy slipped on his gloves. He makes it very clear what his intentions are, and they are not good. What we witness is a sociopath in action and turn it into murder. The others are mere followers and should be held accountable just the same for their involvement. Weak, just like the predators in the wild, in a feeding frenzy. It does not need to be analyzed, it is cut and dry murder. FPD needs a complete pipe cleaning, top to bottom. They can never be trusted again they have done a dis service to the city and have stained it for generations to come. One man who sits on the city council signed on all of these murderers and also was the guru of the “be aggressive” training. He has boasted about it and now he too should be held accountable for this, if your going to start at the top. McKinley is a dangerous individual, he personifies evil at its core. You can see it in his eyes. Product of Darrel Gates. No cop can justify what is represented on this video and if they do they are untrained and should be removed as well. Those of you outside of Fullerton should start to take a closer look at your surroundings too. You might be next.
    Kelly Thomas please find solace wherever you may be, for we here shall set things right to the best of our abilities so this doesnt happen again.

  216. #217 by Ken on May 8, 2012

    Thankyou FFFF for all your hard tireless work on this story. My heart aches for the Thomas family, I cant comprehend the level of pain they are going through. I cant help but wonder what rug this would have all been swept under without this site. I hope on June 5th Bankhead , Jones, and McKinley are all swept out of office. I wish I could have done more to help you guys, but I am a poor, chronically ill person who lives 100 miles away. I left Fullerton 4 years ago, feeling depressed and demoralized as I accomplished nothing on speaking out for the plight of the poor living in substandard housing. I wish you all the best and now have hope for Fullerton…

  217. #218 by Anonymous on May 8, 2012

    Concerned Texan :
    There’s some “law expert” with a last name of Meier (sp) who insists that Kelly was dangerous because it took 5 officers to subdue him. I want to email him, and say, FPD could’ve handled it with ONE officer. Ramos and Wolfe MANUFACTURED this situation. It’s hard for me to take it all in.

    WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL IS FIGHTING FOR HIS LIFE, OF COARSE HIS ADRENALINE IS HIGH, tHOSE 6 GOONS, PUT kELLY IN FEAR OF HIS LIFE.

  218. #219 by Civil Suite Next. on May 8, 2012

    Of coarse, take their guns away, and they are both mamas boys. I got a boo boo on my elbow once, from slipping on a banana.

  219. #220 by Kelly's heros on May 8, 2012

    The sister sounds like a real parasite, We need to get these freaks out of public service. leaches! tax farming sub humans that don’t really ever work that hard, and making everyones life miserable.

    Conviction + civil suite + recall + disbandment+ federal investigation = more going to prison. Just like Mike corona.

  220. #221 by Kelly's heros on May 8, 2012

    Upper Management, some people are going to want to talk to you. You were involed in in the cover up.

    Look here, 20 officers arrested, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3RSAtxvreQ

    You can run but you can’t hide. the shit is going to hit the fan for everyone involved. this is the begining, you are all going to jail,

  221. #222 by Manny Ramos on May 8, 2012

    Yes, the video looks and sounds bad for the officers, really bad.

    Still, after examining the video, I’m troubled with some descriptions in the media.

    • • •

    Perhaps I’ve seen too many movies.

    When I read that officer Manuel Ramos pulled on a pair of rubber gloves and announced that his fists were getting ready to f-up Thomas, I pictured something very different from what the video shows.

    I pictured something menacing, something out of the ultra-violent Oscar-winning film, “Pulp Fiction.”

    But in the video, Ramos has a wandering sometimes discordant, sometimes frustrating talk with Thomas for seven minutes before gloves show up.

    It appears that Ramos’ partner hands him a pair of gloves, should he need them. Ramos stuffs them away.

    Five minutes later, Ramos is still interviewing Thomas, and the contents of his backpack are examined.

    Fourteen minutes in, Ramos reports that he’s found a lawyer’s mail in Thomas’s pack and says, “So I’m thinking a 496,” receiving stolen property.

    It is here when things start to escalate. And it’s after here that I’m troubled with what I see and hear.

    • • •

    By this point, Thomas has complied with Ramos’ orders to sit. Using a profanity, the officer pulls on gloves – standard procedure when handling a suspect – and tells Ramos to put his feet out in front and his hands on his knees.

    Thomas says he can’t do both.

    Ramos says, “Well, you’re going to have to learn real quick.”

    After another minute, this exchange occurs at 15:20:

    Ramos: “Now you see my fists.”

    Thomas: “Yeah, what about ‘em?”

    Ramos: “They’re getting ready to f- you up.”

    Thomas: “Start punching dude.”

    Ramos: “If you don’t f-ing start listening.”

    Thomas: “It sucks.”

    Ramos: Yeah…Put your f-ing hands on your knees.”

    Thomas: “Well, hey, I’m sick of playing games. Which, which one is it?”

    The video then shows Ramos pushing Thomas on the shoulder.

    Thomas jumps up, standing. He appears to slap one of the officer’s hands.

    Ramos’ partner appears, pulling out his baton. Ramos grabs his baton.

    Ramos: “Get on the ground. Get on the ground.”

    The officers strike Thomas on the back of the legs.

    Officer Joseph Wolfe (Ramos’ partner): “Take him down. Take him down.”

    • • •

    The video bounces around. There’s a scuffle behind a tree with sounds of blows, a baton hitting the concrete, grunts and groans.

    At 16:10, Thomas shouts: “I’m sorry dude. I’m sorry.”

    Ramos: “Put your hands behind your back.”

    16:25: The trio reappears on the video. The officers appear to be trying to push Thomas to the ground and force his arms behind his back.

    With at least one officer on him, Thomas appears to prop himself up with his right arm and continues to shout, “I’m sorry dude. I’m sorry.”

    This continues until 17:05. With both officers struggling and obscured by the tree, Thomas starts to yell, “I can’t breathe dude.”

    Wolfe: “Relax.”

    Thomas: “I can’t dude. I f-ing ca…”

    For the next minute, Wolfe keeps telling Thomas to relax. Thomas keeps yelling he can’t breathe.

    17:55, Ramos: “I’m gonna break my arm.”

    Thomas: “OK. Hey, I’m sorry man. OK. OK. OK.”

    18:09: A patrol car arrives and Cicinelli joins the struggle.

    • • •

    18:30: Officers repeatedly blast Thomas with a Taser.

    19:30: An officer holding something pumps his arm up and down over Thomas. (It’s unclear if there’s a connection but photos later show Thomas’ face a bloody pulp.)

    20:10: It appears officers have Thomas under control. Officers start to peel off from the pile.

    Thomas: “Dad help me. Help me.”

    25:10, Cpl. Jay Cincinelli: “I ran out, we ran out of options so I got the end of my Taser and I probably…I just start smashing his face to hell.”

    I know many who serve, and I know they wouldn’t consider such an “

  222. #223 by Wrong Guy on May 8, 2012

    Still an extremely poor defense Ramos…

    What the fuck were you doing swinging your baton around at the initial point of contact w/Kelly Thomas? Were you scared? Or were you deliberately intimidating this innocent man?

    I’m glad you lost weight. That means you’ve been stressed out of your shallow mind, knowing that you were a ‘bad boy’.

    Open your butt-cheeks wide, it’s time for an overhaul!!!!

  223. #224 by Kelly's heros on May 8, 2012

    The signed their own prison ticket this time.

  224. #225 by Kelly's heros on May 8, 2012

    Those scum bags are going to do time, and they khow it.

  225. #226 by Kelly's heros on May 8, 2012

    We can’t be using men with atrophied brain for cops; only a brainstem could kill a guy like Kelly.

  226. #227 by Kelly's heros on May 8, 2012

    Get the whole nation involved.

  227. #228 by Kelly's heros on May 8, 2012

  228. #229 by merijoe on May 8, 2012

    I did learn today, that Cicinelli is bald on top.

  229. #230 by Crystal Bawl on May 9, 2012

    The only thing he’s going to be manning is his port in about a year.

  230. #231 by Force Expert on May 9, 2012

    Ramos is real fat and completely out of shape. The way he is swinging his baton at the beginning of the tape is troubling and against all training protocols. He shouldn’t stand there with a baton in one hand and his other on his gun. The mentally ill are already frightened. Having a friendly non-threatening manner will generally deescalate.
    Ramos is really out of shape. He had to lean on his car for support and was never in a bladed position of safety. Many of his commands were confusing and threatening.
    Ramos is really fat and was once again in a poor position when Thomas was seated. He also put his hands in his pockets which is another officer safety no-no.
    Ramos is a pig. Why wasn’t Thomas patted down for weapons if they truly thought they were dealing with a burglary suspect?
    Did I mention Ramos is really a slob? The baton strikes by Wolf were excessive. I am surprised charges weren’t filed on him.
    The taser in drive-stun was a poor choice. It only increases the fight or flight response in drive-stun. Probe mode would have been the proper choice.
    The taser is not an impact weapon. It has sharp edges and tears tissue. Appropriate impact weapons have rounded edges and do not tear tissue. This was a criminal use of the taser.
    The reason why he couldn’t give his right hand is because the officers pinned his arm under him.

  231. #232 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    Joe you area stupid idiot..I dont know who is dumber you or Kelly Thomas.

  232. #233 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    Sticks and Stones butthole!!

  233. #234 by Justice for ALL on May 9, 2012

    Really?? Is that all ya got??

  234. #235 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    That is what Ramos was doing. But the skitzo was not cooperating.

  235. #236 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    WEll better him than the officers. They were just dealing with a guy that didnt want to cooperate. He just wanted to do what he wanted to do. Doesnt work that way. Officer gave him alot of opportunities to follow orders and he didnt. And then he runs. What do you think cops are gonna say, Ah..we’ll catch him tomorrow.. I dont think so!!

  236. #237 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    Yeah it’s hard to be nice when narrow minded people talk out of their asses!

  237. #238 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    Do you know how stupid you sound. No I didnt think so. Veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

  238. #239 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    If the case goes to trial. All the jurors are gonna be just like watching from afar. Not trailer trash like Kellys mob. People with a brain and common sense. Not onsided jerks.

  239. #240 by Justice for ALL on May 9, 2012

    Of course not. Not the FPD. They just say, “Ah, let’s just finish him off right now so he can’t tell anyone that we beat the shit out of him for no reason!”

  240. #241 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    He forgot to turn it on..It happens.

  241. #242 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    I heard it was the other way around. WE heard the little blonde bitch was talking her shit like always. Damn she is ugly.

  242. #243 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    They had to catch the 3:15 bus back to Fullerton.

  243. #244 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    Maybe because they all have jobs. And not on welfare like KA!

  244. #245 by Justice for ALL on May 9, 2012

    IF, IF the case goes to trial??? Are you seriously that convinced that the FPD can murder someone with witnesses and videos and not face trial?? You are seriously dreaming and in denial.

    Kelly’s murder WAS COMPLETELY “one sided.” Did FPD murder Kelly because he was “trailer trash” in their eyes?? They must have, because there sure wasn’t any other reason.

    Trained officers, who are ethical and decent, “with a brain and common sense” don’t gang murder innocent people. So much for brains and common sense in the FPD.

  245. #246 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    What does this video have to do with this case. Stop taking you drugs and get back to the right case.

  246. #247 by Justice for ALL on May 9, 2012

    You mean all the oinkers needed to go on a donut run.

  247. #248 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    Yeah Ramos open your butt checks so you can shit on him. Cause that is what he is full of.

  248. #249 by John Doe on May 9, 2012

    You call yourself a Force Expert. Boy are we in trouble.

  249. #250 by Justice for ALL on May 9, 2012

    Welfare?? You wish. But, that would still be better than your blood money gotten by murdering innocent people.

  250. #251 by Justice for ALL on May 9, 2012

    You call yourself a human. Boy is the human race in trouble.

  251. #252 by Hog Wild on May 9, 2012

    The fire captain that testified better hope he doesn’t get fired… no, he better hope he doesn’t get filed on for lying under oath. Go through the video second by second and you will pick up on it.

  252. #253 by Kelly's heros on May 9, 2012

    Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!, Muerders!,

    Someone better do a deep background check on the jury, 1 or more could be union plants trying to get a miss trial.

  253. #254 by Kelly's heros on May 9, 2012

    All they need to do is make sure Ramos goes down, full boat, and full sentence, with Jay and Wolfe, and the heat will be off.

    That fucking union better bury these murder’s in prison, with the sodomites, where they belong, or this will keep going on and on in court. I hope there is an agent with a hard out there for these pee brain killers.

    Ramos looks like the kind of guy that beats his kids everyday after work when he comes home, His family should man up and take Kelly’s side on this one and put that fat slob in prison where he belongs.

    I bet you, him and his buddies on the force probably intimidated women on the street into sexual favors, then went home acting like everything is normal like they did, killing Kelly.

  254. #255 by Kelly's heros on May 9, 2012

    Look kook, swing a baton, hand on the gun, all physical queues, then he verbalizes it, He put Kelly in fear of his life. Ramos had clearly indicated he was going to kill Kelly. He is a pee brained murderer.

    These idiots, have taken it upon themselves to tarnish the reputation of good cops around the nation, this shits going global, You have to bury these morons for what they did or it may be worse that Rodney king, and as for what it is, Didn’t these freaks move into O.C. right after the LA riots in the 1st place?

    Can you see the connections?

  255. #256 by Kelly's heros on May 9, 2012

    You don’t like seeing justice being served to those, like you, who are corrupt, now do you.

    If 20 deputies and sheriffs can be rounded up in Virginia, arrested and convicted, then it can happen in Fullerton too. It just happened to Mike Corona and his dumb ass friends. Think you’re special? All eyes are on these guys now, creep.

    You are trying to smear the reality of justice, it’s not going to work, now that the video has gone global.

    Things are changing fast, and you don’t want to try getting a job using a resume with a blood stained reputation. Heard its slim pickings out there. Who knows, some of these FPD could end up out on the street like Kelly was, and may meet the same fate with younger, more aggressive cops coming home from Afghanistan. They might have the same callous reaction Ramos had.

    Just when you thought you were winning the rat race, along come faster rats.

  256. #257 by Fullerton Lover on May 9, 2012

    I’ll take poverty over perjury any day of the week.

  257. #258 by Concerned Texan on May 9, 2012

    You missed the point. I KNOW he was in fear for his life, and that was intentionally instilled by him from the start by Wolfe and Ramos. My point was that commenter was spouting nonsense and I was attacking his “logic” of his thoughtless words. I didn’t buy any of it from the start. They guy clearly had NO GRASP of the situation at ALL.

  258. #259 by Jane H on May 9, 2012

    Kelly Thomas video a turning point for mental health care?

    Excerpt:

    “Fullerton has put all of its officers through training on use of force and interacting with the homeless and mentally ill. The city also created a task force on homelessness and mental illness, made up of religious leaders, mental health advocates and others.

    Like the King beating in Los Angeles, the death of Thomas forced leaders and residents to focus on a serious, long-standing problem, said Fullerton resident Rusty Kennedy, chairman of the task force and executive director of the Orange County Human Relations Commission.”

    “I think both in the Rodney King and the Kelly Thomas cases, there were significant steps taken,” Kennedy said. “But in both cases, the problems we’re facing aren’t easily put to rest.”

    http://www.latimes.com/health/la-me-kelly-thomas-mental-20120509,0,4023045.story?page=2
    _____________________________________________________

    Where has Rusty been through all of this?

  259. #260 by Wrong Guy on May 9, 2012

    Oh, that’s a GOOD one…

  260. #261 by Nomad on May 9, 2012

    WANTED: For the MURDER of Kelly Thomas

    Manny Ramos
    Jay Cecinelli
    Joe Wolfe
    Kenton Hampton
    James Blatney
    Kevin Craig

    Dont forget these names, treat them like the social outKasts they deserve to be treated like

  261. #262 by The Fullerton Harpoon on May 9, 2012

    Probably wondering what he can say that won’t outrage the cops that back his County funding every year.

    I guess he decided to say nothing except stuff that is self-promotional.

    The problem isn’t misunderstanding the mentally ill. The problem is out of control cops who ambushed and killed Kelly Thomas.

    There. I said it.

  262. #263 by Simmons on May 9, 2012

    Interesting you note the name “Mike Corona”.

    Michael S. “Mike” Carona former Sheriff-Coroner of Orange County, California. On June 6, 2006, Carona was elected to a third term as Sheriff.

    What I find interesting is that

    @17:15 to about 17:25

    THOMAS: Okay. Here dude I can’t breathe man. Fuck. Please I can’t breathe.

    RAMOS: Put your hands behind your back.

    THOMAS: Okay. Help … help … ab … I can’t breathe man.

    RAMOS: Put your hands behind your back.

    THOMAS: Okay. Here, here dude. please. Hey Corona. Ah …

    (YELLING) … AAAH … AHHH

    When I read the transcript I wondered what/who “Corona” meant.

    When Kelly screams: “Hey Corona” could he be referring to Mike Carona? IF so, does it have any importance? Probably not but just noticed the similarities.

  263. #264 by The Fullerton Harpoon on May 9, 2012

    Lying under oath? You mean like the stories told by Kenton Hampton and Frank Nguyen about Veth Mam?

    That’s rich, Hog.

  264. #265 by merijoe on May 9, 2012

    when I was at the courthouse yesterday
    I overheard a woman who used to work for LAPD tell a reporter that Pat McKinley was thught of as a “god” by others and some still consider him to be this. to this day.

  265. #266 by Nomad on May 9, 2012

    These 6 sadists were not involved in a traffic accident that unintentionally took a life, they intentionally beat a man with clubs and crushed the life out of him with their fat asses on a public street….

  266. #267 by merijoe on May 9, 2012

    Of course you heard that, pass this on to your buds and their supporters (including you) from now on, the audio recorders are on everywhere a Kelly Army person goes.

  267. #268 by merijoe on May 9, 2012

    Other than the courtroom, of course.

  268. #269 by Concerned Texan on May 9, 2012

    Are you guys really wearing recorders? That actually makes me feel better knowing that you have protection where you go. I know how the cops and their families lie or twist things to create their degenerative thinking.

  269. #270 by Nomad on May 9, 2012

    merijoe :when I was at the courthouse yesterdayI overheard a woman who used to work for LAPD tell a reporter that Pat McKinley was thught of as a “god” by others and some still consider him to be this. to this day.

    Meri”The Mole”Joe Ought not worship false gods, Eh?!

  270. #271 by merijoe on May 9, 2012

    yes, we talked about this vs. verbal altercations and the recorders were the choice, and will be either worn or held (cell phones have that option) in public places that allow these things.

  271. #272 by merijoe on May 9, 2012

    I prefer, reporter, since Im not a spy.

  272. #273 by Fullerton Lover on May 9, 2012

    That’s a very safe bet.

  273. #274 by Nomad on May 9, 2012

    Good morn, MeriJoe, I stand corrected. Hopefully we will have some good news to report on later today?!

  274. #275 by Concerned Texan on May 9, 2012

    As crazy as this sounds, here’s a scenario I could see happening:

    Members of Kelly’s Army go into the restroom (3 together like yesterday). Members from the cops party see this and decide THEY need to go to the restroom too. If Kelly’s Army can go, why can’t they?

    Member A of Kelly’s Army trips and stubs his or her toe and loudly exclaims “Shit! I stubbed my toe!” to his or her companions but within lets say 10 feet of a party of Cicinelli supporters.

    Upon hearing said curse word, Kelly’s Army member A has now commenced talking “shit” to people from Cicinelli’s side of the isle. And they take that as enough provocation to start a fight and are completely vindicated in their own minds. Hence the obnoxious troll post above, i.e. THEY were talking shit. Crazy people are taxing to deal with.

  275. #276 by merijoe on May 9, 2012

    Morn to you! That’s ok. No worries!

    I hope so, the DA has been very considerate of the family-the autopsy photos were shown yesterday, in the presence of some of the Thomas family, but just the superficial things, T-rack asked the pathologist if it was necessary to show the internal organs and she said no. I thought that was very kind.

  276. #277 by Nomad on May 9, 2012

    Merijoe, in case you weren’t aware yet, 9c1 would like for you to contact him…….I hope T-Rack proves to be a man of character and prosecutes this case to the full extent of the law. The Thomas family deserve no less.

  277. #278 by Nomad on May 9, 2012

    Sometime some of the subtleties are overlooked when a lot of passion is involved. I’m glad to hear he was considerate of the families feelings.

  278. #279 by cb on May 9, 2012

    This video made me wonder about the FPD’s hiring standards, fitness standards, and, above all, training standards. Prosecuting these officers is a start. Then the department needs to be disbanded and replaced. It’s a failed organization.

  279. #280 by truthseeker on May 9, 2012

    amen to that

  280. #281 by Jt on May 9, 2012

    I’m racking my brain trying to think of what ancient civilization might have had a “god” of torture and brutality.

  281. #282 by truthseeker on May 9, 2012

    There are very long term ramifications and far reaching consequences that result from the clear stance against the shedding of innocent blood. Rest assured that you are all truly on the right side of things and the world is watching as the murderers and their supporters refuse to do the right thing even as the truth clearly stands on its own.

  282. #283 by truthseeker on May 9, 2012

    Babylon-Molech -Does anyone know if Mckinley attends Bohemian Grove?

  283. #284 by Justice for ALL on May 9, 2012

    The truth will set you free.

  284. #285 by Justice for ALL on May 9, 2012

    Is that all ya got?????

  285. #286 by pam on May 9, 2012

    Having just watch this video what i see is the officer talking to Kelly in the beginning by the police car was just waiting for kelly to do something . He was hitting his baton on his thigh just waiting.. he is his like the bully in the school yard … and now he grew up to ware a badge and protect who?

  286. #287 by pam on May 9, 2012

    The office with the baton was just waiting tfor Kelly to do something so he could go after him, like a bully in the school yard. I bet he was one . He grew up to be a police officer with a badge and was allowed to go after and hit people legally. These officers coldn’t wait to beat him..

  287. #288 by Tracey on May 9, 2012

    Well said For the Record.

  288. #289 by Justice for ALL on May 9, 2012

    @John Doe, you stated, “But the “skitzo” was not cooperating.”

    Oh, so according to you, the officers KNEW Kelly was “skitzo”? and KNEW that he was disabled and that he would have a very difficult time understanding, remembering and following instructions and they knew that someone with schizophrenia would easily become confused and defensive or agitated?? So, the officers decided to aggravate and escalate and taunt a mentally ill person enough so that he would become agitated and frightened, and then it would give the officers a pretense under which to begin beating and murdering him??

    OR, the officers DIDN’T know that Kelly was “skitzo” and illegal searches, taunting, threats of great bodily harm and intimidation of innocent people is just how they treat EVERYONE?? And, MURDERING an unarmed person because he tries to back away, with his empty palms facing outward, because he has just been frightened by threats of great bodily harm is just routine procedure?? And then officers start swinging with night sticks and MURDER an unarmed, innocent person just because he doesn’t understand, or can’t follow instructions, or because he is afraid for his life and struggling to be able to breathe?

    So, which is it?? Either way, it doesn’t really matter, does it? The outcome is the same. An innocent, unarmed man man was brutally and mercilessly beaten to death in the street and MURDERED without a trial, jury or judge. Kelly was lynched by a gang.

    The MURDERING cops, and others involved, belong in jail for a VERY long time.

  289. #290 by A random youtube comment on May 9, 2012

    Pretty soon “Let’s Roll” is gonna be applied to not just terrorists on a plane, but to USA cops too.

    – mondiablue

  290. #291 by David Bailey on May 9, 2012

    Shimon Mendel: You are incorrect. That video, as Tarvis mentioned, is property of the citizens of the City of Fullerton. We paid for those cameras and we facilitated the installation in our City. We maintain the recording equipment and pay for its upkeep. Evidence or not, it was our collective property.

    There is no law against publicly disclosing evidence of a crime. None at all.

    I could understand your position if the evidence was from a private party and only disclosed to the DA and defendants, then, yes, this is where the ‘right of citizens’ is limited. But that is not the case here.

    You mention ‘advice from counsel’ in the same breath as ‘constrained.’ I don’t understand that…. how is one constrained by advice? It’s just that, advice. It is not a law, it is not a rule, it is mealy the desire or want of a person (or group of people). Leaders need to take that advice, including advice from others, and, coupled with their own education and experience, form an opinion; then act on that position. The Council is elected, the CA is not. The final decision sits with them.

    There are soooooooo many options between ‘begging for forgiveness’ and acting like the Council did. It’s like a scale of 1 to 10. I’m sure the new Council will find the right balance. I know Travis will.

  291. #292 by Mmm thats good on May 9, 2012

    Great point! A 9/11 style hijacking would be near impossible in this day and age because passengers would fight back like hell.

  292. #293 by Anonymous on May 9, 2012

    one less up to no good homeless pos left on the streets. im sure none of you would let your kids nowhere near this person if you saw them in the street. so what happens when youre not with them and they come across this guy wandering the streets with no purpose. what if he did something to your kid at a gas station or something while you went in to pay for gas. the cop told him over 6 times what to do and he wasn’t doing it. now why was it so hard for the homeless person to just do what he was saying. you can argue that the beating wasn’t necessary but why didnt he just comply in the first place?

  293. #294 by FullertonGirl65 on May 9, 2012

    What if ANY stranger did something to my kids? What if a Christian Scoutmaster fondled my child or tried to hurt them? There are a lot more sick people in the world that I worry about more than a homeless guy. My kids don’t look down on homeless and/or mentally ill people, and we do what we can to help them, including approaching and talking to them. You’re an idiot, Anonymous.

  294. #295 by Nomad on May 9, 2012

    Anonymous :one less up to no good homeless pos left on the streets. im sure none of you would let your kids nowhere near this person if you saw them in the street. so what happens when youre not with them and they come across this guy wandering the streets with no purpose. what if he did something to your kid at a gas station or something while you went in to pay for gas. the cop told him over 6 times what to do and he wasn’t doing it. now why was it so hard for the homeless person to just do what he was saying. you can argue that the beating wasn’t necessary but why didnt he just comply in the first place?

    WANTED: For the MURDER of Kelly Thomas

    Joe wolfe
    Manny ramos
    Jay cicinelli
    James blatney
    Kenton hampton
    Kevin craig

    Never forget these names and treat them like the social outKasts they deserve to be treated like. They earned it!

  295. #296 by Concerned Californian on May 9, 2012

    Have you seen the news lately? Corrupt city officials are getting arrested nation wide. It’s coming your way. bye bye now.

  296. #297 by Concerned Californian on May 9, 2012

    Murder is real bad, Murder with a badge on is ten times worse. It gives God fearing officers a horrible undeserved reputation.

    Only Pee brained drunkards would behave like these wet brain idiots.

  297. #298 by Concerned Californian on May 9, 2012

    Drunkard low life scum:

    Joe wolfe
    Manny ramos
    Jay cicinelli
    James blatney
    Kenton hampton
    Kevin craig

  298. #299 by Michael on May 9, 2012

    One thing I did notice in this video is Kenton Hampton did nothing but stand around. It kinda clears him in this case.

  299. #300 by Concerned Californian on May 9, 2012

    Prison time might help to sober these idiots up, but then again, wet brain is irreverseable.

    I can’t believe the city May have given jobs to a bunch of idiots looking for drinking money.

  300. #301 by Concerned Californian on May 9, 2012

    No more marine just out of the corps.

    Put them in the post office, the library, kinder care, but not out on the street anymore.

    Why would cities want to hire marines who have been trained and ordered to kill , and put them on the street with our people?

    You know that they need years of decompression before they can acclimate to civilian life!

    Give them light duty jobs until they come to terms with the Horror Bush put them thru.

    What fucking idiots! Using Marines as a means to an end after they have been shooting and killing, and possibly by mistake, foreign babies too!

    Give the Marines a break! they have been ordered to do horrible things, and some of them struggle to forgive themselves and end up losing all sense of humanity.

    Money does nothing to cure the problen.

  301. #302 by Concerned Californian on May 9, 2012

    Maybe.

  302. #303 by Nomad on May 9, 2012

    Death by compression, he was there, he participated.

  303. #304 by cb on May 9, 2012

    You can’t possibly have watched the entire video. Kelly Thomas was sitting down when Ramos leaned in and said that his fists were getting ready to fuck him up, then grabbed him. He asked Thomas to sit, and Thomas sat. He asked Thomas to put his legs out, and he did. Thomas complied with everything a fat, unprofessional, foul-mouthed fool told him to do, imperfectly but not aggressively or in a threatening way. How is it that a man who is told to sit down, then does sit down, ends up being told that these fists are about to fuck you up?

  304. #305 by Spunky on May 9, 2012

    WAY worse than I thought it would be!

  305. #306 by MrJones&HisHugeBlueStones on May 9, 2012

    Anonymous :
    one less up to no good homeless pos left on the streets. im sure none of you would let your kids nowhere near this person if you saw them in the street. so what happens when youre not with them and they come across this guy wandering the streets with no purpose. what if he did something to your kid at a gas station or something while you went in to pay for gas. the cop told him over 6 times what to do and he wasn’t doing it. now why was it so hard for the homeless person to just do what he was saying. you can argue that the beating wasn’t necessary but why didnt he just comply in the first place?

    I’m sure your just a police troll thinking of the best defence you can muster. Just the same, if you ever come down with a mental illness, I hope you have the decency to commit suicide.

    I believe all six police officers involved should forgiven and reinstated. However, six random Fullerton policemen should be selected to have their nut-sacks removed. It’s only fair, especially since Fullerton police seem to be so chummy. If you want to change police behavior in a hurry, this is how you do it.

    Why is there no petition to indict Officer Wolf?

  306. #307 by so sad on May 10, 2012

    Ramos says: “It seems like every day we have to talk to you about somethin’ do you enjoy it?”

    prooves right there that they had a relationship with Kelly. Knew full well who he was. and what they were planning on doing to him.

  307. #308 by MrJones&HisHugeBlueStones on May 10, 2012

    so sad :
    Ramos says: “It seems like every day we have to talk to you about somethin’ do you enjoy it?”
    prooves right there that they had a relationship with Kelly. Knew full well who he was. and what they were planning on doing to him.

    Yep, and as others have pointed out, you have Wolf handing Manny the latex gloves while saying something like “you’re going to need these”. It’s pretty clear these officers had an agenda. I doubt they intended to murder but they acted like (at the end) that murder was a possibility for which they were not opposed. Kelly Thomas was supposed to infer from his beat down that Fullerton is not a safe place to loiter. It almost worked. Had Kelly survived, he would have likely avoided Fullerton and the six Fullerton cops would have never seen an indictment.

    The million dollar question is how the cops came by their anti-homeless agenda? Was it an unspoken dislike for the homeless amongst cops? Were they getting paid to solve the homeless problem for local bar owners? Were the cops under pressure from City Council to run off the homeless? There are many possibilities. The influence/corruption that caused the murder is many times more important than the actual crimes of the Fullerton Six. Nothing will change until the underlying reasons have been eliminated.

  308. #309 by Nancy Drew on May 10, 2012

    This is for John Doe you are a disgrace and should be banned from this post. Obviously you are just like the officers who committed MURDER!! My fiance is a retired officer and he is absolutely furious that these officers committed this act. This puts a huge stain on law enforcement and people like you make me sick

  309. #310 by Fullerton Lover on May 10, 2012

    The person that I wouldn’t want my children around is you.

  310. #311 by Fullerton Lover on May 10, 2012

    Clears him of what? Kenton Hampton stood around and did nothing while a perfectly innocent citizen was beaten to death next to him.

    That’s a big problem for me if he’s my son.

  311. #312 by Fullerton Lover on May 10, 2012

    Amen!

  312. #313 by Frank on May 10, 2012

    Short explanation: School.

  313. #314 by brandi on May 10, 2012

    Until I can think of a way to make a bigger impact from 3000 miles away – I made a small tribute to Kelly’s life in hopes it would help raise awareness on the issue. http://youtu.be/_kpsRvR-TuY

  314. #315 by Concerned Californian on May 10, 2012

    The problem we have are rogue groups of sadist, hired out of the military, trained killers that acquired a taste for blood shed, roaming around the streets at night looking for some adrenaline rushes, finding sexual gratification in Killing easy prey, like Kelly Thomas.

  315. #316 by Jane H on May 10, 2012

    Thank you Brandi, that was beautiful!

    I’ve been in a state of shock since seeing the video. I needed to shed a few tears. Great!

  316. #317 by Cherri Adams on May 10, 2012

    This is the most show
    of incompenance show of over testerone that I have seen since VIET NAM. Cops should never be given the right to take life unles they have been threatened thier live. There was never a threat to none but ego.

  317. #318 by Lifesaving Service on May 10, 2012

    Cherri Adams :
    This is the most show
    of incompenance show of over testerone that I have seen since VIET NAM. Cops should never be given the right to take life unles they have been threatened thier live. There was never a threat to none but ego.

    Cops doing something really bad happens, Mc Satan and his Coverup is STUPID, EVIL, AND VERY COSTLY. Moral BANKRUPTCY, cost the Citizens and the City a great deal, in many ways

  318. #319 by Nomad on May 10, 2012

    Moveing tribute “Brandie”, lump in my throat.

  319. #320 by Tracey on May 10, 2012

    Brandi, that was beautiful. You made me feel like Kelly is a part of all our families.

  320. #321 by merijoe on May 10, 2012

    Thank you brandi-beautiful and spirtual, love goes very far beyond the physical person, whether you are near or far ceases to be important.

  321. #322 by brandi on May 10, 2012

    He is absolutely a part of our family. He is our brother in Christ. This could happen to any one of us that cross the path of a sociopath who just doesn’t like the way we look. In Kelly’s case, it happened at the hands of men we are all taught to trust and call on for protection.

    I can’t explain why, I just feel so moved to speak up for him.

    Does anyone know if a foundation has been set up in his honor? To help feed the homeless or raise awareness for mental illness? I would really love to contribute to something of that nature.

  322. #323 by merijoe on May 10, 2012

  323. #324 by brandi on May 10, 2012

    thanks so much merijo. i added that to the video as well.

  324. #325 by Wrong Guy on May 10, 2012

    Thank you for that beautiful tribute from 3,000 miles away Brandi…

    A tear-jerker yes, but one I’ll keep forever…

  325. #326 by fullertonpd=keystonescops on May 10, 2012

    give it a rest already.

  326. #327 by Handy Randy on May 10, 2012

    Nancy Drew :This is for John Doe you are a disgrace and should be banned from this post. Obviously you are just like the officers who committed MURDER!! My fiance is a retired officer and he is absolutely furious that these officers committed this act. This puts a huge stain on law enforcement and people like you make me sick

    John Doe- description- sad lonely, man who lives with his mom and takes steriods,and is a dirty cop that beats women-he is far to scared of his own shadow- the only thing he has is this blog,and he wants people to like him, aint gonna happen, he is red headed mommas boy- with a badge- anything worse? I think not.

  327. #328 by merijoe on May 10, 2012

    So standing around and watching a torture murder lets a person off the hook?
    I don’t think so but IMO-
    If another police officer on the scene witnesses excessive force being used, by other officers, they should be obligated to assist the victim not stand around and do nothing-
    If the officers on the scene don’t assist the victim but don’t participate, they should still all be charged the same as the main aggressor because they did nothing to stop it.

  328. #329 by The Eye that Stinks on May 11, 2012

    So, let me get this straight… Manny-Moe was charged with murder two based solely upon what he said beforehand (while showing his fists). Had the other five said something similar, they too would be indicted on murder two. Therefore, these charges have very little to do with who actually inflicted the murder. In fact, it’s possible that Manny-Moe had very little to do with the physical murder. 99% of his crime (as charged) was his statement of intention to Kelly. Only one of the six broke Kelly’s chest… and that was probably Officer Cyclops. Sounds to me like Manny-Moe is being made a scape-goat. Whomever did the chest crushing knee drop is the one who should be facing murder charges. The others are accessories.

  329. #330 by nipsey on May 11, 2012

    See, the problem isn’t that fatso was overcharged, it’s that others were undercharged.

  330. #331 by Zeeuwbog on May 12, 2012

    Seems to me the¨”Police Officers” could not wait for Kelly to blink an eye to have a reason to bring him in. And running from a beating is against the law for these “Police Officers”. Looking at the images this is nothing less than murder.
    At the end of the footage, after the “arrest” of Kelly I hear a joyful laughing amoungst the Officers. Unbelievable when a person is so life threatening wounded on the ground.
    I can only be happy I do not live in Fullerton, where I presume people should feel safe protected by the police instead of being murdered.
    My sympathy for Kelly and Kelly’s family, may you get justice even when that can not undo this monstruous ending of Kelly’s life.

  331. #332 by kh4815162342 on May 13, 2012

    I absolutely agree! It was probably the hardest thing I have ever watched. To hear your child begging for you…crying out for help…knowing he was being killed…hearing his final words on earth, is so heartbreaking and unfathomable.

  332. #333 by Tosteel on May 13, 2012

    There’s so many things I want to say on this matter. I want people to hear, read and comment about this. So much of our lives are “controlled”, “monitored” or “interrupted” by the people who let these C.O.P. s ( Criminals On Patrol ) on the street. Law Enforcement officers just don’t seem to be trained properly on how to deal with the public. All the way back to Rodney King incident it proves that many officers just are not mentally prepared to hold the position. I bet there’s a lack of periodic mental evaluations on the officers that roam the streets. It reminds me of old Disaster Movies ,the people who can fix the problem never take it seriously until people DIE. If you read this you should also watch the Video of another homeless man (John T. Williams) being killed by Seattle C.O.P. Ian Birk in August 2010.
    The C.O.P. s that killed Kelly Thomas definitely were wrong and if we get Capital Murder for killing a Law Enforcement Officer, then they should get the same charge for things like this. With that said, I would support a Law suit they started saying their lack of training and supervision got them in this situation. We need to hold everyone connected to the Police accountable for this behavior (I bet their families could give some insight if honesty was present). We have the power to change this. “The Government should fear us, we shouldn’t fear our Government”. Keep in mind, until changes start you or someone you care about could be next.

  333. #334 by bob on May 14, 2012

    As a fullerton resident this is shocking but sadly not surprising. In a city that ignores real crime, allows families and gangs to dominate areas of the city and is aggressive in it’s reaction to most residents who call for assistance this is no surprise to me at all.
    I have dealt with cops twice, once I was told I saw nothing and to leave and the other time I was told “go home”. Both cases I was a key witness. I like Fullerton but I am about to move to another city. This one is in the gutter, sadly not looking at the stars.

  334. #335 by F Franklin on May 15, 2012

    – This is an example of how lack of supervision in FPD led to this tragic
    event. If FPD police sergeants and LTs did their job, Ramos would have been let go long before he could commit this murder. He had several complaints of butality which were ignored. The supervision needs to be
    fired. There are plenty of good “by the book” cops who can be promoted to those slots, and plenty of applicants to hired. It would be seamless.
    – In light of the fact that these guys are very highly paid, just what is it that about our culture which ignores this third world style of law enforcement.
    – It is bizarre just how exalted our police are. On mother’s day, all day, all cable channels, only police shows. Other western countries and China produce consumer products for export. Those cultures watch shows about physics, math and natural science, producing a smarter population. We are obsessed with guns and violence and produce movie dramas based on police procedure for viewing.
    — This obsession transcends into the real world where police enjoy god like privileges of infallibility.

  335. #336 by Concerned Californian on May 15, 2012

    I hope John Doe trips on his shoelace and falls off a cliff.

  336. #337 by rose on May 16, 2012

    911 operator: What is your emergency?
    caller:bloodied victim down with six huge attackers on top of him. All attackers armed with guns, batons, tasers and overweight.
    Please hurry, send ems, man is pleading with his attackers he cannot breathe but they are still on top of him. Please send the chief of police too.
    911 operator: is the victim conscious?
    caller: he was screaming in pain and for help, saying he couldn’t breathe….now he is moaning in pain….
    911 operator : stay on the line..police cruisers and ambulance are on the way…
    caller: there are enough police cruisers here…victim is quiet….
    ….they just turned him over and he looks like he is not breathing….please notify internal affairs too.

  337. #338 by Anonymous on May 17, 2012

    The Fullerton Police Dept needs to Close its Doors if this is Training we are all in trouble! I do not feel safe with these kind of officers at all! all six Shame on you! and they say Kelly had a mental illiness? looks like these officers do!!! sick the worst kind…they said he was on something? looks like they were!In the video you hear them say ‘CHOKE HIM OUT” That is part of what killed him ! these Officers were sick Men They did not hear one word! killing is supposed to be against the Law! did they miss that in training? who do we call now?

  338. #339 by Anonymous on May 17, 2012

    Kellys Army,,, you would be better off calling them for Help! they are the ones that do care and stand for Justice this Police Dept and the City needs to look up the word! Justice… to them it is…. Just …For…Us!!! We need to all take back Our City! They have done nothing but Mess it up!!

  339. #340 by Please Help Me... on May 17, 2012

    The Nature of Corruption

    I’m eager to hear other’s views on the nature of corruption. Actually, I’m interested in the nature of all corruption but police corruption is as good a place to start as any. What mechanisms are there to recruit corrupt officers in the first place? That is, I’m sure there is an effort to recruit officers who they know will “play ball” when the occasion presents itself. Once on the police force, what mechanisms keep corrupt officers within the line of corruption? I’ve heard a few theories and come up with a few of my own ideas but I’m interested in what others have come up with.

  340. #341 by 1776blues on May 21, 2012

    Thanks for removing that confused individual, orion, who believes he has a first amendment right to post a message of violence on a private website. He is trying to make FFFF look like a website that is advocating violence, which may be his intention. These people are used to undermine a website’s purpose and credibility. They are called provocateurs or sometimes they are just idiots, in his case both may apply.

  341. #342 by Kim on June 6, 2012

    I’m surprised that anyone here is so shocked that police could act in this way and that there is still no remorse. Many police officers believe they are always justified in their actions, they do not have remorse and they do not have consciences, dont waste your time complaining about it or trying to change it, it is how it is, it’s a system wide epidemic, protect yourselves. Trying to talk sense to them is useless.

  342. #343 by Bob on June 7, 2012

    I can’t even watch that whole video.
    These cops should be locked up forever.
    Guy can’t breathe and they are still laying into him.

  343. #344 by Bob on June 7, 2012

    Worse part about this is if there was no surveillance video the FPD would have gotten away with it.

  344. #345 by Bird. It's the Word. on June 27, 2012

    The United States as a whole needs to pass laws to add sentencing enhancements to all law enforcement convicted of crimes. The whole Fullerton Police Department is screaming to be made examples of.

  345. #346 by Joe Sipowicz on June 27, 2012

    Yes. With gang enhancements added, too!

  346. #347 by Joe Sipowicz on June 27, 2012

    And terrorism!

  347. #348 by D. Parker on July 11, 2012

    So a mentally ill citizen who cannot follow instructions given by the Fullerton 6 was killed. Our mother has Alzheimer’s and would not be able to follow the same orders, would be belligerent and hostile. Would they kill her too? Who is safe?

  348. #349 by D. Parker on July 11, 2012

    Look up the, breaking case of Milton Hall, homeless man in Saginaw, MI…same story different state.

    I wonder if the Fullerton 6 knew that Kelly’s father and grandfather had been officers if the end would have been the same.

  349. #350 by John Doe on July 11, 2012

    Kelly’s father was not an officer. Get over it people. He was kicked out of the academy for beating up his wife.

  350. #351 by John Doe on July 11, 2012

    Old Man, before you give your opinion, get familiar with the case. Thank you.

  351. #352 by ElaineP on July 19, 2012

    Ted: The cause of the overweight was those free meals they were getting from the Slidebar.

  352. #353 by Anonymous on August 23, 2012

    Ramos’ bro’???? That is how little you know.

  353. #354 by Anonomys on February 25, 2013

    If yout look at the time of 8minutes and 40 seconds, it shows Officer Kenton Hampton kicking Kelly Thomas twice, and he screamed while at that moment he was kicked by officer Kenton Hampton. Yet not charges were brought about to him, for striking him.

  354. #355 by Anonomys on February 25, 2013

    If yout look at the time of 8minutes and 40 seconds, it shows Officer Kenton Hampton kicking Kelly Thomas twice, and he screamed while at that moment he was kicked by officer Kenton Hampton. Yet not charges were brought about to him, for striking him. I say the DA should review that one right there.

  355. #356 by Anonomys on February 25, 2013

    If yout look at the time of 8minutes and 40 seconds, it shows Officer Kenton Hampton kicking Kelly Thomas twice, and he screamed while at that moment he was kicked by officer Kenton Hampton. Yet not charges were brought about to him, for striking him. The DA needs to review that one right there, and bring charges against him for those 2 kicks, to his face.

  356. #357 by Anonamyths on February 25, 2013

    This is exactly why we continue to see protests in front of the Police Department on Commonwealth and Highland every Saturday mornng at 10 AM.

    The city of Fullerton is still employing Kenton Hampton on the streets of Fullerton as if the murder of Kelly Thomas, or the false imprisonment of Veth Nam never occurred?

  357. #358 by Anonamyths on February 25, 2013

    The next protest will be at 10 am this coming Saturday, March 2, 2013 in front of the FPD at Highlands and Commonwealth.

  358. #359 by Anonymous on February 25, 2013

    No, they are allowed to retire at 50 @ $100,00. Get it right!

Comments are closed.