Mayor Jones Bemoans “A Tragedy for the Officers”


After learning that two of his police department’s employees were officially charged in the murder of a mentally-ill homeless man, Fullerton’s esteemed Mayor Dick Jones was finally a talkin.’ He cast out this pearl:

“We are delighted this has come forth,” Mayor F. Richard Jones said. “The DA has done an outstanding job of presenting this. … He was very succinct and clear. … It’s a tragedy for the officers, for the Thomas family and for the city.”

Did you just read that right? Mayor Jones exclaiming a tragedy for the officers?!! Yep, you did read that right.

Well, some may just say that he misspoke, even though he undoubtedly had been coached beforehand by his out-of-town handlers.

And I say that he said exactly what he meant: that the whole obscene episode, and his role in creating the corruption that led to it, and later his downplaying the murder is a tragedy - for himself and the gang of thugs he set loose on Downtown Fullerton.

Of course not a word of sympathy from the good doctor for the actual victim – a sick, law-abiding homeless man. To Jones who’s “doin’ all right” up on his hill, Kelly Thomas was just another filthy bum annoying his cherished booze hall-owning pals.

 

 

And Jonesie has seen many much worse injuries than those of Kelly Thomas that were survivable.

 

But of course none of the victims that Doc HeeHaw pulled out of flaming airplane wreckage in Veet Naam had a two hundred and fifty pound cop sitting on their chest electrocuting and pistol whipping them.

 

 

No more free ride for you,  Mr. Jones. People finally understand what an incompetent, loud-mouthed idiot you really are.

More about

Email This Post To A Friend Email This Post To A Friend

  1. #1 by Fullerton Rudy on September 23, 2011

    The Shadow is back!!

  2. #2 by Cameron Steele on September 23, 2011

    Don’t call me mistah. Call me doctah. Or kernil. I worked hard fer them jobs.

  3. #3 by fullerton lover on September 23, 2011

    Mr. Mayor step down we don’t want you in this town! This is pretty much all I ever hear from anyone and everyone around Fullerton anymore, however never having shown any sense of honor in the past, tells me that Dick Jones will have to be pushed out of office by the voters recalling him and his cronies, McKinley and Bankhead.

  4. #4 by Common Folk Guy on September 23, 2011

    I have so much disdain for this POS so called mayor. “It’s a tragedy for the officers” and not a word on any actions being taken or words of condolence. RECALL THIS JACKASS ASAP!!!!
    You Mr.Jones are a puppet and a coward.

  5. #5 by ExPat ExLawyer on September 23, 2011

    Nice job on the header.

    Please tell me this photo with the hat was photoshopped.

    If not, could you fellow commenters who are locals please explain how this obvious freak show was elected.

  6. #6 by Rebecca on September 23, 2011

    This recall can’t happen fast enough..

    Did anyone hear Ramos’ cousin call Jon&Ken yesterday?! Trying to say what a good guy Ramos is and that the family supports him! J&K shut him down reak quick

  7. #7 by ExPat ExLawyer on September 23, 2011

    So what possibly caused his election?

  8. #8 by ExPat ExLawyer on September 23, 2011

    Ted Bundy’s family said the same thing.

  9. #9 by We Are All One on September 23, 2011

    ExPat ExLawyer :
    So what possibly caused his election?

    Good ‘Ol Boys Club.

  10. #10 by We Are All One on September 23, 2011

    .. and it’s a pretty big club here in Orange County.

  11. #11 by One for the books on September 23, 2011

    I think Ron Thomas met with him Thursday. I wonder if he plans to resign now?

  12. #12 by Peaches on September 23, 2011

    Has Jones’ military service ever been independently verified? His DD214 (or equivalent) reviewed to confirm his “accomplishments” in the military?

  13. #13 by Jt on September 23, 2011

    No, we unfortunately can not.

    Ah do believe that hat is for real.

  14. #14 by Hick Jones on September 23, 2011

    H’it’s a tragedy for all of us! Macbeth is called “The Tragedy of Macbeth” but we all know who the villain is in that one, don’t we?

  15. #15 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    Nobody was paying attention.

  16. #16 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    Nobody was paying much attention.

    He was a Chamber of Commerce Man of the Year! Yeehaw!

  17. #17 by Dick Sez on September 23, 2011

    Y’all bettah git used to it. Remembah, tha’ first rule a’ gummint is public safety!

  18. #18 by English Major on September 23, 2011

    I find the comparison to Macbeth highly insulting. To Macbeth.

  19. #19 by Junior Jones on September 23, 2011

    Out damn Dick!

  20. #20 by Get Real on September 23, 2011

    How great would it be for the rest of us civilians, if we got REWARDED FOR INCOMPETANCY! I still cant get of this police union, city union BULL SHIT.
    In the real world, if you make a mistake you get demoted or fired. You don’t get full paid leave.
    And how about Goodrich and his public lies and incompetance. Is he really going to keep his job and pay? Make me want to move out of Fullerton and California for that matter. When is reform going to come?
    ATT CITY COUNCIL: THE SYSTEM YOU CREATED IS FLAWED. WE NEED THE RECALL TO FIX IT.

  21. #21 by digustedbythis on September 23, 2011

    Fullerton Lover, I love your comment about Mista Jones stepp’n down but he won’t. He’s an arrogant prick who is so full of his own b.s. he doen’t think he does wrong. A real narcissistic prick who belongs no where near a gov’t. position.

  22. #22 by peanut on September 23, 2011

    He is a plastic surgeon, doubt if he even let hi base hospital.

  23. #23 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    “The coroner cannot determine the cause of death. And I will tell you this, I have had my eyes bloused a few times myself. FACIAL INJURIES ARE NOT LIFE THREATENING – FACIAL INJURIES ARE NOT LIFE THREATENING…..”
    http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2011/mckinley-plays-doctor/
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt3WT3QJl0Y&feature=player_embedded

    HE WATCHED THE WHOLE VIDEO and still went on NATIONAL TELEVISION and said this

  24. #24 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-9qGpLG2xs&NR=1

    Mayor Jones watched the whole MURDER video.. and offered a payoff to keep the murderers in badges and on the streets

  25. #25 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    :( /tear *Thank you Travis

    Fullerton Police Chief Sellers Promotes Open Government
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbDopFi0Zds

    Chief Sellers watched the WHOLE MURDER Video

  26. #26 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    Is smoking allowed in a government building?
    Where and when was this picture taken?

  27. #27 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Fullerton Police Raid Wrong Home, Pastor and Family Held at Gunpoint
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS0SiFyHPm4&feature=related

    When does the FBI disband FPD

  28. #28 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Get Real :
    How great would it be for the rest of us civilians, if we got REWARDED FOR INCOMPETANCY! I still cant get of this police union, city union BULL SHIT.
    In the real world, if you make a mistake you get demoted or fired. You don’t get full paid leave.
    And how about Goodrich and his public lies and incompetance. Is he really going to keep his job and pay? Make me want to move out of Fullerton and California for that matter. When is reform going to come?
    ATT CITY COUNCIL: THE SYSTEM YOU CREATED IS FLAWED. WE NEED THE RECALL TO FIX IT.

    Sorry, but a recall keeps the FPD in charge of your city.. Police Union has kept those people in office with donations and votes.

  29. #29 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    What time was his cousin on John and Ken?

  30. #30 by Reality Check on September 23, 2011

    You need to demand that recall candidates take a pledge to never accept public sector union money. The reason you can’t fire bad cops is the same reason you can’t fire bad teachers – UNIONS. Government employee unions should be illegal.

  31. #31 by Get Real on September 23, 2011

    I cant get over his quote!
    It just baffles me. “….I cant figure out how he died…”
    Mayor Jones (i know you are reading this blog): Please step down

    Officers Goodrich, Hampton, Cissy and Wolfe: Fuck you, you dirty pigs. You are corrupt pieces of shit and should be publicly tarred and feathered. I hope you all lose your jobs and precious pensions!

  32. #32 by Jaynbond on September 23, 2011

    Ron Thomas is the one who should resign. He is such a dolt, a complete moron.
    If he is what he says he is, 1) a retired officer of some kind, and 2) a use of force expert/instructor, he would know that the officers conducted themselves in a manner as taught to them in how to subdue a suspect. And yes, Kelly Thomas was the suspect, not just a harmless guy sitting on a park bench chillin’.
    Kelly was a frightful looking, unkempt, dirty, scroungy, homeless person that any one of you would be afraid to have around your children.
    Suspect Kelly was trying to survive by taking things from cars. He would not have had to survive that way if his family had taken care of him.
    Ron Thomas is spending so much time NOW on the homeless, if he had taken just a little time for his son, none of this would be happening and his son would still be alive.

    Ron Thomas you need to shut up!

  33. #33 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Reality Check :
    Government employee unions should be illegal.

    ^^^^^^ EXCELLENT Point!

    WE ARE THEIR UNION..

    By the People for the People

  34. #34 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Jaynbond :
    Ron Thomas is the one who should resign. He is such a dolt, a complete moron.
    If he is what he says he is, 1) a retired officer of some kind, and 2) a use of force expert/instructor, he would know that the officers conducted themselves in a manner as taught to them in how to subdue a suspect. And yes, Kelly Thomas was the suspect, not just a harmless guy sitting on a park bench chillin’.
    Kelly was a frightful looking, unkempt, dirty, scroungy, homeless person that any one of you would be afraid to have around your children.
    Suspect Kelly was trying to survive by taking things from cars. He would not have had to survive that way if his family had taken care of him.
    Ron Thomas is spending so much time NOW on the homeless, if he had taken just a little time for his son, none of this would be happening and his son would still be alive.
    Ron Thomas you need to shut up!

    Is there any way to ban this freak from oxygen.. oops.. sounds worse than I mean.. but he is the worst nazi puke I have ever read.. I just see the name and know it is a giant gene pool stain

  35. #35 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    Your mother should of swallowed.

  36. #36 by Jaynbond on September 23, 2011

    MeYou: Can’t take the heat? Then get off the blog!

  37. #37 by Get Real on September 23, 2011

    A recall with fresh blood and fewer long-term ties to special interests in the community will help decrease corruption.
    McPension has been abusing his position as a chief for years, now hes abusing his position on council. giving paybacks to old friends.
    Jones- speaks for itself.
    Bankhead- been in office to long and again, has to many ties to PD and special interests. The vote for Saint Anton Place with Ackerman as the consultant says it all. They voted without taking public comment.
    We need new blood on council with fewer long term political ties and favor owed to the “good ol boy network”.
    And a new council that is willing to stand up to the current regime will go a long way. Much better than a bunch of idiots stating publicly: “I don’t know how Kelly could have died. I just cant figure it out.” Also, dont forget that McPension said something similar about facial injuries and how he can figure out what the “cause of death” could be.
    Get these corrupt officials out of council and we can initiate reform.

  38. #38 by The Fullerton Savage on September 23, 2011

    And what proof do we have that Kelly Thomas was legitimately “suspected” of anything? To paraphrase, our society can be judged by the way we treat the scroungy and homeless, the most vulnerable among us. It matters not how he chose to live. His homelessness was not the issue.

    My suggestion to you is that you spend a couple of days wandering around a public place, sleeping on a park bench, not washing, then ask yourself whether or not you deserve to be savagely beaten to death for appearing unpleasant to others.

  39. #39 by 9c1copcar on September 23, 2011

    MEYOU,

    WE need to see JAYNBOND, REALITY IS, and the others who have a differing viewpoint, no matter how vile it is. It is a reminder to all the decent people out there, that we have a foe that would love rule our lives, and do-as-they-please with our freedoms, for they are the very ones who denied Kelly of his.

  40. #40 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Jaynbond :
    MeYou: Can’t take the heat? Then get off the blog!

    I do not read anything you write past the first few words my consciousness cannot avoid

  41. #41 by REBECCA RIJNDERS on September 23, 2011

    I believe it was around 4-4:15ish
    He had called in and they asked why they should believe he was the cousin, and the cousin just said he had no reason to lie.
    They gave him less than 5 minutes to speak and then hung up on him.

  42. #42 by Get Real on September 23, 2011

    Maybe Facial Injuries are NOT life threatening.
    However, blunt force trauma is life threatening. So is being chocked and suffocated. As well as drowning in a pool of your own blood.
    Factor in getting tazed 5 or 6 times for good measure.
    Also, Ramos is a fat slob. i couldn’t imagine having him or any of those fat ass sorry FPD specimens laying on top of me. I would probably suffocate as well.

  43. #43 by 9c1copcar on September 23, 2011

    Last sentence should have read: for they are the same kind that denied Kelly of his.

  44. #44 by Save US from the Fullerton Cops on September 23, 2011

    Well said, 9c1.

    Just ignore the troll, MeYou — he received some very traumatic news this week (at least from his sociopathic point of view), and I believe he’s suffering from “excited delirium.”

  45. #45 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Save US from the Fullerton Cops :
    Well said, 9c1.
    Just ignore the troll, MeYou — he received some very traumatic news this week (at least from his sociopathic point of view), and I believe he’s suffering from “excited delirium.”

    LOL “Excited Delerium”

    TY :D

  46. #46 by Save US from the Fullerton Cops on September 23, 2011

    You’re most welcome. What good are sadists and sociopaths if we can’t occasionally have a chuckle at their expense?

  47. #47 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    boss hog doesn’t get it, does he?

  48. #48 by Jaynbond on September 23, 2011

    91c: The only person who denied Suspect KT of his freedoms was Ron “MONEY GRUBBER” Thomas.

    Looking at the pics of Suspect KT’s half naked body, unshaven and dirty makes me sick. He did not have to live that way. Ron Thomas knew how his son was living and did NOTHING to help him, NOTHING! If you say otherwise, you are the fool. I wish I had known KT before he became a suspect. I would have loved to help him.

    I feel I should apologise to KT for the actions of his own Dad, Ron Thomas. May God forgive you!

  49. #49 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    you know most dr’s and lawyer who finish at the bottom of their classes in low rated schools, end up as pulic servants.

  50. #50 by Get Real on September 23, 2011

    to jaynbond:
    you stated: “he would know that the officers conducted themselves in a manner as taught to them in how to subdue a suspect”

    Was putting on gloves and telling a suspect, “..you see these fists, these are the fists that are going to fuck you up!” part of standard operating proceedure? I don’t think the officers were taught to conduct themselves in this manner.

    Kelly never broke into cars. That was a bogus call from Slime Bar. And False information distributed by officer Goodrich. Along with the false information that two officers had broken bones etc. Dont you get it, this isn’t about just Kelly Thomas. Its about the coverup and lies by FPD.

  51. #51 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    yes indeedy, that scientific word excited delirium is now being suffered by the bad cops of fullerton whilst they drink their pepto bismol and change their depends!

  52. #52 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Jaynbond :
    91c: The only person who denied Suspect KT of his freedoms was Ron “MONEY GRUBBER” Thomas.
    Looking at the pics of Suspect KT’s half naked body, unshaven and dirty makes me sick. He did not have to live that way. Ron Thomas knew how his son was living and did NOTHING to help him, NOTHING! If you say otherwise, you are the fool. I wish I had known KT before he became a suspect. I would have loved to help him.
    I feel I should apologise to KT for the actions of his own Dad, Ron Thomas. May God forgive you!

    missed the middle.. eyes caught top and bottom

    any apologies for the actions of the murderers?

  53. #53 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Get Real :
    I cant get over his quote!
    It just baffles me. “….I cant figure out how he died…”
    Mayor Jones (i know you are reading this blog): Please step down
    Officers Goodrich, Hampton, Cissy and Wolfe: Fuck you, you dirty pigs. You are corrupt pieces of shit and should be publicly tarred and feathered. I hope you all lose your jobs and precious pensions!

    How about we let Sinny and the other 5 do 90% of what they did to Kelly to Jones and then let his ask if 10% more is what caused the death or if he still can’t figure it out?

    HE WATCHED THE WHOLE VIDEO BEFORE HE SAID THAT..

    why recall.. He needs to be in a Fed Pen for the attempted coverup of a murder

  54. #54 by Jaynbond on September 23, 2011

    There have been no convictions!

  55. #55 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Jaynbond :
    There have been no convictions!

    One cop tasered him 4 times
    beat him in the face and head 8 times
    kneed him in the lungs and throat..

    Its ok.. you are possibly the worst troll in the history of bridges

  56. #56 by dmk on September 23, 2011

    Oh God, I’ll have to say it again:

    TASE THE MAYOR !!!

  57. #57 by Junior Jones on September 23, 2011

    Jesus H., are you still around? Wait ’til we get the other four behind bars; and their supervisors who orchestrated the cover-up.

    Oh yeah, and the pickpocket, the credit card thief, the sexual predators, the thugs, the lunatics, the deadbeat dads, the kidnappers, the bankrupts. Oh what a lovely crew!!!!

  58. #58 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    It is a tragedy for the officers as I am sure this is not something they planned. Yes it is a tragedy for the Thomas family but why do they not take some responsibility and stop putting the blame on everyone else and how they should have taken care of his son when he was the first one to push him out.

  59. #59 by REBECCA RIJNDERS on September 23, 2011

    Are you from around here Jayn?

    The worst “points of view” are from the people that aren’t from, at least, this tri-city area..

    These are the people that truly don’t know what they are talking about..

    I would have to say KT was pretty well known.. and not as a begger, or as scary or violent or anything other than a sort of vagabond.. I would pass him daily.. he walked the same routs and kept mostly the same habits.

    I wish more people who knew and interacted with KT would speak up agianst the peanut gallery of very opinionated but detached bandwagon-ers

  60. #60 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Jaynbond :
    91c: The only person who denied Suspect KT of his freedoms was Ron “MONEY GRUBBER” Thomas.
    Looking at the pics of Suspect KT’s half naked body, unshaven and dirty makes me sick. He did not have to live that way. Ron Thomas knew how his son was living and did NOTHING to help him, NOTHING! If you say otherwise, you are the fool. I wish I had known KT before he became a suspect. I would have loved to help him.
    I feel I should apologise to KT for the actions of his own Dad, Ron Thomas. May God forgive you!

    Please do let us know what you have done to help the homeless in Fullerton or anywhere on the planet?

    Please, like I asked you before, tell us how 18 relates to 37?

    What more could they “legally” do

    Can you force anyone to do something.. you seem to think you can..

    Is there a law that says you can kidnap and force a 37 year old man to take medication he cannot afford?

    Do let us know how long parental responsibility lasts into adulthood

  61. #61 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    Yes let’s continue the brutality by being violent – you just showed what an animal you are. Your children should be proud!

  62. #62 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    This is more detailed than the press conference. How is all this information coming out? Has the D.A. released the video or more details?

    http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-318616-ramos-wolfe.html

  63. #63 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    Yes let’s continue the brutality by being violent – you just showed what an animal you are. Your children should be proud!

    hi Jay.. thought you would clear cookies and start harassing.

    whoever this is.. please tell us what can be done to the concil members who watched the video and tried to cover up a murder?

    would you please give us some plausible ideas of how we can remove them from office and then from society

    seems like a hell of a crime to try and bribe someone with $900,000 to not report a murder

  64. #64 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    I agree why is Thomas Kelly not taking any responsibility. If he would of protested against the lack of help for the mentally disabled his son may have not have been in the situation he was in. As we know Thomas is going for big money so how much of that is he using to help the mental ill?

  65. #65 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    This is more detailed than the press conference. How is all this information coming out? Has the D.A. released the video or more details?
    http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-318616-ramos-wolfe.html

    Wolfe “kneed and punched him” Polocies and procedures.. we punch you to handcuff you and hit you with batons.. all covered under procedures

    Wolfe called for more murderers while still on top of and punching Thomas 20 minutes later

    I cannot read the rest without puking ..

    two officers held his ankles
    two were sitting on top of him LAYING BLOW AFTER BLOW AFTER BLOW upon him
    Jay BASHED IN HIS SKULL AND TASERED HIM INTO A CHRISTMAS TREE

    BUT.. here is the DAs defense of the TORTURERS who were not charged

    “The district attorney said that the evidence does not show that Blatney was aware upon arriving at the scene that he was assisting in the restraint of a victim who had been subjected to excessive force by other officers.”

    TODAY.. I will call Hollywood and see if any of them have any nuts or ovaries and will BRING HEAVY HEAVY MEDIA ATTENTION TO THIS TORTURE

  66. #66 by Stary Eyes on September 23, 2011

    The use of a taser is neither brutal or violent. If it were then police cops wouldnt use it.

  67. #67 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    I agree why is Thomas Kelly not taking any responsibility. If he would of protested against the lack of help for the mentally disabled his son may have not have been in the situation he was in. As we know Thomas is going for big money so how much of that is he using to help the mental ill?

    TRUTH .. this has nothing to do with
    mental illness
    Kelly Thomas
    Ron Thomas
    etc

    ONLY FPD and Police Behavior is the only thing that matters

    A US CITIZEN was tortured to death..

    Was the father of a THIRTY SEVEN yr old man there helping them swing their batons and firsts and tasers

    did Schizophrenia help them swing their fists and batons and tasers into the mans skull and ribs and heart and throat

  68. #68 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Stary Eyes :
    The use of a taser is neither brutal or violent. If it were then police cops wouldnt use it.

    ACTUALLY.. check your facts NUMEROUS Police Departments across America have banned/outlawed the use of tasers because more than one hit from a taser is known to kill many victims

  69. #69 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    I am from this City and I ride the train on a daily basis and I can also tell you that Kelly was a begger as I came to give him change on numereous ocassions. I also saw how people laughed, held their children and were appalled as they passed him by. No he did not deserve to die but he was scary looking, so don’t be the voice for all..

  70. #70 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    I am from this City and I ride the train on a daily basis and I can also tell you that Kelly was a begger as I came to give him change on numereous ocassions. I also saw how people laughed, held their children and were appalled as they passed him by. No he did not deserve to die but he was scary looking, so don’t be the voice for all..

    you might be scary looking and have stinky breath.. you sound just like the type of juror they are looking for

  71. #71 by REBECCA RIJNDERS on September 23, 2011

    It is hard to control a mentally ill person. It is harder when the person refuses meds.

    My cousin was Schizo.. he spent 3-5 years in and out of Mental Health Facilities.. From Los Angeles, to Norwalk to Saugus. There are no programs or assistance from the state in cases such as these.

    When in a facility my cousin would be medicated and almost “normal” if you will. But once stable, he would be let back into my Uncle/Aunt custody. Once he got home again, he would refuse all meds..and quickly degenerate..

    He wanted to be outside all the time, he wanted to walk all day long. He liked it. It is so hard to keep a grown man captive. It is expensive to try to keep him in facility full time.

    I wouldn’t expect anyone to unserstand the struggle and cost of a situation as this. Some things can not be understood until one has experienced it for one’s self.

  72. #72 by Common Folk Guy on September 23, 2011

    Take into consideration that regardless of Kelly’s living status,homeless or otherwise there were 6 police officers who killed/murdered a living human being. Being mentally ill,homeless,rich,poor,black,white,male or female plays no roll in this,he was beaten to death by the very ones who are entrusted with our safety against such acts of brutal violence and that is what is at the very core of this. I’m sure the cops did not wake up that day and say I’m going to kill someone today but they did kill/murder a human for no other reason whatsoever other then being out of control!!!

  73. #73 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    You criticize very important professions which I am sure you going running too as soon as you need them and you know most who critize are those who fail to fulfill their goals. Which one did you want to be a Dr. or lawyer?

  74. #74 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    It is a tragedy for the officers as I am sure this is not something they planned. Yes it is a tragedy for the Thomas family but why do they not take some responsibility and stop putting the blame on everyone else and how they should have taken care of his son when he was the first one to push him out.

    37 years – 18 years = 19 years

    LAW.. What can they force him to do

    Where were community services.. oh .. bankrupt.. Thank you

    Why were they bankrupt

    ^^see Council and Police retirement and pay

  75. #75 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    You criticize very important professions which I am sure you going running too as soon as you need them and you know most who critize are those who fail to fulfill their goals. Which one did you want to be a Dr. or lawyer?

    Sadly your reading comprehension isn’t very good. Let’s hope you are not a doctor or a lawyer.

    The post is making fun of politicians who wanted to be lawyers and doctors but were as dumb as you so they decided to be politicians

  76. #76 by Anonymous II on September 23, 2011

    The cops who did the most damage were not rookies. Ramos was on the force for 10 years, wolfe and cyclops 12 years.

  77. #77 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    I too have a brother who is schizo and I have been taking care of him for 10 years. No it is not easy and not too much help is out their for them but you just don’t throw them out and expect someone else to take care of them. As mention on one of these blogs when Mr. Thomas receives the money for throwing his son out in the street how much of that is he using to help the mentally ill. Since his son was homeless a home in his son’s name is keeping the memory of his son alive.

  78. #78 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    I too have a brother who is schizo and I have been taking care of him for 10 years. No it is not easy and not too much help is out their for them but you just don’t throw them out and expect someone else to take care of them. As mention on one of these blogs when Mr. Thomas receives the money for throwing his son out in the street how much of that is he using to help the mentally ill. Since his son was homeless a home in his son’s name is keeping the memory of his son alive.

    Innocent until proven guilty..

    Jay, are you a PreCog? you know what Mr Thomas plans to do with the money paid to him because cops tortured and murdered his son?

  79. #79 by REBECCA RIJNDERS on September 23, 2011

    I hear you Anon.. I know he spent a lot of time at the train station; it was his favorite place. And I don’t want to try to speak for y’all or anyone else.

    I just want to offer my experiances over the last 10 years. There are many other homeless in the area that I deal with whom are more aggressive .

    Allow me to reformat my comment so as to say: compared to the many other homeless/less fortunate/mentally impaired that I have/do interact with

  80. #80 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    No one said anything about stinky breath. You must have also meet Kelly. And your attack on me just puts you beneath me as you have to use assaults to defend yourself. Have a nice day.

  81. #81 by My Username Rocks on September 23, 2011

    MeYou, you are the second person to take “anonymous” to task for his (?) lack of reading comprehension.

    lol

  82. #82 by Jaynbond on September 23, 2011

    Things are not black or white in this situation. There are gray areas.

    I have helped the homless for the past twenty years on a regular basis, especially in the cold winter months. I ask all of you to do the same. I obtain backpacks anywhere I can, yard sales, donations, inexpensive sales… whatever is availabe. Same for items to put into the backpacks. Sweatshirts, knit caps, gloves, socks, shoes, toothbrushes, paste, soap, sanitizer, a little money, anything I think they can use. I keep the filled backpacks in my vehicle and when I see someone in need, I give them one. If they are hungry I get them a meal. Please try it. It is easy and appreciated.

  83. #83 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    No one said anything about stinky breath. You must have also meet Kelly. And your attack on me just puts you beneath me as you have to use assaults to defend yourself. Have a nice day.

    Nope.. but a monkey (we are all lucky monkeys that stand upright) in nice clothes like yourself thinks he was scary and that denotes some sort of defilement which is the same way the cops and Jeremy popoff and his establishment looked at him

    Do not wish me any pleasantries stinky breath

  84. #84 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    Your insults only show your ignorance as I never claimed to be an intellect. Find a way to make your point without being insulting.

  85. #85 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    Your insults only show your ignorance as I never claimed to be an intellect. Find a way to make your point without being insulting.

    reread your shit that falls out your mouth before you hit send then. We are not here to coddle and cuckold you and your expectation of such makes me think you work for the government

  86. #86 by REBECCA RIJNDERS on September 23, 2011

    Agreed that it will be interesting to see what will happen with the money.

    But the bigger picture right now is the legal battle that lies ahead.

    I applaud you for your caretaking. It so hard. My whole family took turns helping care for my cousin. I don’t think that Ron just turned him loose though. I do see the conflict he must have been in. It is hard to cage anyone, let alone a grown man. And there is no good answer. Its a downhill battle from beginning to end.

  87. #87 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    Insults… Hope you didn’t choke on them…..

  88. #88 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    Are you steaming now? Maybe now you can go out and do somnething for the homeless that are still alive instead of sitting on you behind.. That is my last word to you as you are not stating anything but assualts. Have a nice day as I will.

  89. #89 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    Are you steaming now? Maybe now you can go out and do somnething for the homeless that are still alive instead of sitting on you behind.. That is my last word to you as you are not stating anything but assualts. Have a nice day as I will.

    your last word should have stopped at

    “.. this is my last word to you”

    Have a nice day :)

  90. #90 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    Insults… Hope you didn’t choke on them…..

    I would much rather be verbally assaulted than what they did to Kelly.. guess you aren’t here to discuss that

  91. #91 by 9c1copcar on September 23, 2011

    JAYNBOND,

    You sound like a man with convictions. Care to come to the protest and protest us? We will not harm you. I think you will find that we are decent, law-abiding people who care about truth and justice. Do you have the same convictions regarding your opinions? If so, I welcome you out there beside me.

  92. #92 by dixiejon on September 23, 2011

    and military doctors especially

  93. #93 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    9c1copcar :
    JAYNBOND,
    You sound like a man with convictions. Care to come to the protest and protest us? We will not harm you. I think you will find that we are decent, law-abiding people who care about truth and justice. Do you have the same convictions regarding your opinions? If so, I welcome you out there beside me.

    Props for finding a way to be civil to evil.

  94. #94 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    Okay to voice your point of view but do you have to be insulting? We teach children every day how an opinion can be voiced in a productive manner. If you are a parent you can help in the teaching.

  95. #95 by Larry T on September 23, 2011

    Goodrich, is that you again?

  96. #96 by Minx on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :Yes it is a tragedy for the Thomas family but why do they not take some responsibility and stop putting the blame on everyone else and how they should have taken care of his son when he was the first one to push him out.

    You can spew this strawman argument until you are blue in the face, and will STILL be B.S. Tell me, what exactly was Mr. Thomas supposed to do to “control” his mentally ill adult child?

  97. #97 by Stud Lee on September 23, 2011

    The Tazer manufacturer warns users NOT to Taze someone near their heart. Lots of people die every year from Tazers. Not violent? Well, maybe in the way that cancer is not violent.

  98. #98 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    I have a feeling that that your opinion would drastically change if you were ever personally tased.
    :)

  99. #99 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Minx :

    Anonymous :Yes it is a tragedy for the Thomas family but why do they not take some responsibility and stop putting the blame on everyone else and how they should have taken care of his son when he was the first one to push him out.

    You can spew this strawman argument until you are blue in the face, and will STILL be B.S. Tell me, what exactly was Mr. Thomas supposed to do to “control” his mentally ill adult child?

    Or even better yet

    Tell us how Ron could have stopped the cops from murdering Kelly that night..

  100. #100 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    ANONY YOUR RESPONSE IS NOT ONLY IDIOTIC, IT IS MORONIC!

  101. #101 by We Are All One on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    I am from this City and I ride the train on a daily basis and I can also tell you that Kelly was a begger as I came to give him change on numereous ocassions. I also saw how people laughed, held their children and were appalled as they passed him by. No he did not deserve to die but he was scary looking, so don’t be the voice for all..

    Why would anyone laugh at or be appalled by a beggar? Two words – FEAR and IGNORANCE.

    Afraid of the unknown. Afraid of what they might be one day. I never met Kelly, but I’m sure I had seen him before. I see beggars all time. Some are pretty grungy looking and some are in suits and ties.

  102. #102 by van get it da artiste on September 23, 2011

    tragedy occurs when a good person is tripped up by bad persons and falls from a righteous role in society to dishonor through no fault of his or her own. pathetic is a person who always was immoral, and his or her actions creates havoc for society

  103. #103 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    Why insult the family? Who are you to judge?

  104. #104 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    IF THE CORONER CAN’T DETERMINE CAUSE OF DEATH, IT IS BECAUSE OF THE VARIABLES, THE TOOLS USED TO CAUSE THE DEATH. BLOWS TO THE HEAD CAN DEPRIVE ORGANS OF OXYGEN, BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA TO THE CHEST, SAME THING, TASERING OVER AND OVER CAN CAUSE HEART TO DEFRIBILATE, BROKEN RIBS CAN PIERCE LUNGS CAUSING INTERNAL BLEEDING AND LACK OF LUNG FUNCTION, BLEEDING OUT. MY GUESS IS, ALL OF THIS PLAYED A PART IN THE TOTAL CAUSE OF DEATH.

  105. #105 by dixiejon on September 23, 2011

    sure ya do

  106. #106 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    RESIGN FROM WHAT YOU FUCKING RETARD? RON IS RETIRED FROM OCSD. YOU ARE THE ONLY IGNORANT FUCKWIT ON THIS BLOG!

  107. #107 by Concerned on September 23, 2011

    If one of your family members did something wrong should the whole world condemn you?

  108. #108 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Anonymous :
    Why insult the family? Who are you to judge?

    he is trying to say.. the caller obviously knew very little about the inner workings of Ramos’ mind and heart and the training he received and fostered

  109. #109 by LeRoy Murray on September 23, 2011

    Could you imagine serving under this guy? Was he really in Viet Nam? Near the lines or waaaaaay back? Do you think he was a Hawkeye or a Frank Burns? I don’t know but I’m guessing a Frank Burns…

  110. #110 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    LeRoy Murray :
    Could you imagine serving under this guy? Was he really in Viet Nam? Near the lines or waaaaaay back? Do you think he was a Hawkeye or a Frank Burns? I don’t know but I’m guessing a Frank Burns…

    Read that he was a plastic surgeon.. Probably sitting on US soil treating burn victims and such at some Mil Hospital

  111. #111 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    “I cannot read the rest without puking ..”

    I thought I wanted to see the video, now I’m not so sure…. :(

    I STILL cannot get over hearing Kelly’s cries ……….after all this time.

  112. #112 by LeRoy Murray on September 23, 2011

    I agree, we need to start letting our politicians know we want the unions shut down. Why do public servants need to be unionized? They don’t.

  113. #113 by REBECCA RIJNDERS on September 23, 2011

    Who insulted the family of whom?

  114. #114 by LeRoy Murray on September 23, 2011

    If you look at the pictures Ron Thomas and his lawyer showed a couple weeks ago, which weren’t KT but based on hospital records, he was tazed right over the heart. Which the manufacturer says don’t do because of potential heart problems. Can you imagine 50,000 volts to your heart? Over and over?

  115. #115 by Here for the long haul on September 23, 2011

    Unfortuantely, this is the society we live in today. I know this becuase I work with the homeless everyday and see how sociewty treats them. Their in alot of folks that have the “Not In My Neighborhood” mentality. Helping the homeless and getting involved with helping the mentally ill should be part of the focus now. Make a difference. I know some of you are ralling around Kelly today because it makes you feel good or feel guilty because you did nothing for him or people like him before this tragedy. But homeless will continue way after this passes, because it will.

  116. #116 by blessusall on September 23, 2011

    I can tell you, having worked in the mental health field for 25 years and with law enforcement, that the nature of schizophrenia, the disease itself, causes symptoms and disorganized thinking that lead to noncompliance with treatment and medications and a whole host problems–and I will not go into the long, long list of horrendous side effects of medications that help me to understand why some people don’t want to take the meds. In most places, as far as I know, law enforcement officers have the ability to order a person be transported to a hospital for observation/evaluation if there is reason to believe they are mentally impaired in some way (psychotic or suicidal for example) that represents a risk of harm to themselves or others. Where I live, it is called a “1013″ after the form the LEO or a doctor or licensed therapist signs that the person requires evaluation for their own safety. For this reason, LEO’s can be an invaluable part of the treatment team or support network of mentally ill people and their families. Where I live, we are fortunate to have kind, compassionate LEOs who are trained in dealing with mentally ill and we often advise family members, who are desperately trying to help a loved one who because of the disorder cannot make reasonable and competent decisions for themselves to contact the police, go to the court and get a judge to sign a court order for eval (which will be carried out by a sheriff who will find the person and transport them to the ER will they will be evaluated and possibly admitted), or file a restraining order so that if they violate it, the LEO can be called and then “1013″ them and bring them to the hospital where they can be helped. This can be the best thing that can happen for someone who is in a psychotic state and unable to understand their own impairment and need for treatment. A family member can’t make them go to the hospital, even an outpatient doctor or therapist can’t do that–the police officer or sheriff can legally take them into custody and take them to a hospital for evaluation and treatment. Even if a doctor signs a 1013, it will still be a LEO who does the transporting. These LEOs are good people who work in a capacity to protect and serve even mentally ill people whose thoughts and judgment are impaired and whose safety is therefore compromised. We think of LE as partners with the family, medical and psychiatric providers in providing help and support to these very vulnerable people. I understand even more now how fortunate we are to have the kind and compassionate officers we have in my town, which is actually is not exactly a progressive place. Like many places, there is a paucity of services available to people with severe mental illness that renders them incapable of working or holding down a job in order to care for themselves. Services for someone who is severely mental ill with very little financial resources are extremely limited and getting more so in the current economic climate of our nation.
    Anyway, we have a continuum of care among treatment providers, including inpatient and outpatient settings, that also includes law enforcement. I intend to be even more verbally appreciative of these men and women when I see them because I know that they treat the mentally ill people in our community with the dignity and respect that they deserve.

    I can add that there are ways to de-escalate and even restrain an out of control psychotic person (which Kelly was not when he was attacked and murdered) that do not require weapons or use of force in any way. Our staff at the hospital and our LEOs have been trained in these techniques that are effective. We very rarely use restraints or put our hands on a patient in any way, and, in fact for the most part are not allowed to do so; if someone is so out of control that they must be restrained or even in defense if a staff person is being threatened, we know how to do this in a way that minimizes the possibility of physical harm to anyone, including staff and other patients. It’s really not that hard and it is very effective, and, again, because we are trained in de-escalation, we rarely have to use physical techniques.

    I am grateful that our law enforcement here do not have the kind of attitude toward mentally ill/homeless people that apparently exists in other communities. I will more consciously express my sincere gratitude to these men and women from now on.

    Not every person with schizophrenia has a disease process that takes the same course. There are, in fact, varying degrees of severity of mental illnesses, just as there are varying degress of severity of medical problems. Science does not yet understand why this is or even what exactly causes it. Every person does not respond the same way to medications, either, which is why there are so many and why some people have to go through years of trying different meds, or new meds, in a hope to find one that helps them to be stable. Kelly Thomas had a type of schizophrenia that is severe and chronic. I wish I could go into more about that because I would love to help people understand it in a way that would keep them from blaming him or his family for his mental illness. I, too, have had family members with schizophrenia and one who would not stay in the house, probably due to paranoid delusions, auditory and visual hallucinations. Sometimes, for instance, they are convinced that the house has been “bugged” and so they will not stay in that house. You can put them in another house and eventually, they come to believe that they are being watched and followed and monitored there as well. They also may believe that whoever these nefarious people are who are after them are going to attempt to poison their food. So they don’t stay in a house where they think someone could find out where they live and then do these things to them. They are afraid. I recently worked with a woman who had her first psychotic break at 13. She is now close to 40. She has a family who loves her. They want her to stay in their home with them. But she is convinced that there are people in the attic and she also “sees” a group that is paid by the government to go around bashing in people’s heads in a field next door to her parents home. She won’t stay there. So they got her an apartment, but eventually, she became convince that these same things were happening. If she left her apartment to go somewhere, she would be convinced that someone had come in and poisoned the food and water supply. So she left there. We got her into a group home…same thing. She has been on every medication there is to treat schizophrenia, and although she sometimes shows improvement, she has fixed delusions and auditory and visual hallucinations that never go away. Her current plan is to “just keep moving,” stay at one shelter one night, another the next, spend a couple of days in the hospital, and so forth, just to stay one step ahead of these people who are after her. She also believes she “hears” other people’s thoughts and sometimes hears people thinking and planning awful things against her; she has been convinced that she heard me plotting against her–and I can assure you, I was not. So even though I am a person who cares about her, she doesn’t trust me because her thought disorder causes her to hear what she says is my negative thoughts about her.

    In the end, it does not matter what Kelly’s parents did or did not do in terms of what happened to him. Their actions did not cause the actions of the F6 no matter how much you try to connec that to them. Whether homeless or not, loved and cared for by family or not, mentally ill or not, there is no justification for a man to be beaten to death by law enforcement officers the way Kelly was.

  117. #117 by Mainjet on September 23, 2011

    Before you make your inane, ignorant, depraved comments, at least get up to speed on the facts on this issue.

  118. #118 by Fullerton Gay Boy on September 23, 2011

    As much as I despise the Fullerton police and every one of their killer cops (they are ALL instrunments of suffering and death) , the more i read between the lines of the various radio and newspaper articles, the more I am convenienced that at the end of the day every one of these sub human animals is walking and the the three corrupt dirt bag politicians are still going to be in power. I sure hope I am wrong

  119. #119 by Justice for ALL on September 23, 2011

    My son has had paranoid schizophrenia for the past 10 years, and he has NEVER frightened me anywhere near as much as the FPD frightens me!!!

    I would NEVER call the FPD to “protect” me. They would probably come and shoot my dog, shoot my cat, shoot my son, and shoot me, (or bludgeon us all to death), if they even so much as THOUGHT they saw a shadow.

    And, there are always a LOT of shadows EVERYWHERE, so it’s NOT worth the risk to life and limb to call the FPD. If you call them, you are truly risking your life. You’d better make sure that you have your life insurance policy paid current, that you have your last will and testament made out, and that you have your burial plot all picked out- BEFORE you ever think of calling them!!

  120. #120 by REBECCA RIJNDERS on September 23, 2011

    THANK YOU!

    This is so well said.

    Are you from CA? Here, we can have that type of situation you are describing but the MedHold is brief.. once the patient is stable he/she is released.

    It is a vicious cycle.

    Thank you so much for sharing all of this!

  121. #121 by We Are All One on September 23, 2011

    Here for the long haul :
    Unfortuantely, this is the society we live in today. I know this becuase I work with the homeless everyday and see how sociewty treats them. Their in alot of folks that have the “Not In My Neighborhood” mentality. Helping the homeless and getting involved with helping the mentally ill should be part of the focus now. Make a difference. I know some of you are ralling around Kelly today because it makes you feel good or feel guilty because you did nothing for him or people like him before this tragedy. But homeless will continue way after this passes, because it will.

    Nah, I don’t think that way. I don’t do anything because I feel guilty. What a xstain way of thinking. I, like most people around the world are responding to the murder of an innocent fellow human being by the people that are supposed to protect us. We are rallying for truth, just and reform. You can keep your guilt trip.

  122. #122 by We Are All One on September 23, 2011

    *justice

  123. #123 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    This guy Dick Jones is obviously a piece of work. He reminds me of a character actor, right out of Central Casting, playing a buffoonish cranky old mayor with perfect pitch. Unfortunately he is an all too real embarrassment to the city of Fullerton.

    All of this is obvious, what’s less clear to me is that he is actually evil and heartless, and that is what is being implied here. While Jones is certainly not known for being particularly eloquent, he’s being judged to be evil and hard hearted here for that very fault. He did not express sympathy to Kelly, okay, but many of us do not talk about the departed as if they are living. I don’t. Seems kind of creepy and based on old superstitions to me. But now we are getting into belief systems….

    Jones was expressing sorrow to those he knows can actually hear him. He fumbled it and did it in the wrong order, he also did not choose his words very well, but isn’t that what he always does regardless of the issue? Isn’t that why we make fun of him?

    I have a hard time, based on what I’ve read in this blog entry, of judging Dick Jones to be an evil, hard hearted person with no compassion for those that have suffered and are still suffering, and yet that is precisely what one has to believe to accept as factual the implications being made against him in this latest blog entry on FFF.

    From my own perspective, it seems like FFF has stepped up its use of every Kelly Thomas connected case point, even the most marginal, that can possibly be stretched in any way whatsoever to attack the subjects of the recall. This clearly plays right into the hands of critics who say FFF latched onto the tragic murder of Thomas for political purposes.

    There are so many more worthy Kelly Thomas case points to discuss, and each of these threads reflects that fact in the comments, which almost always immediately veer wildly away from the political talking points in FFF’s original blog entries.

    All that being said, as a fellow OC’er, I wish the voters of Fullerton the best of luck in sending Dick Jones into retirement.

  124. #124 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    It will be interesting to see how the Feds view the $900,000 if true.

    He and others were privy to the same evidence and video the DA used to charge the participants therein with Murder.

  125. #125 by annon. on September 23, 2011

    Comparing Manuel Ramos family to Ted Bundy’s family.

  126. #126 by Justice for ALL on September 23, 2011

    Kelly’s murder did not occur in a vacuum; it was covered up and thereby implicitly condoned on so many levels. The city leaders and L.E. brass MUST be held accountable; and I believe they WILL ultimately be held accountable.

  127. #127 by Karen on September 23, 2011

    Why bunch all the officers that are there to protect us into one. Sad for you. I for one have been helped by the FPD I do not know if one of these officers came to my rescue but I will not condemn them all.

  128. #128 by REBECCA RIJNDERS on September 23, 2011

    Oh I see..Thanks.. Sorry! I can only check back here and there and these threads get longer every second!

    I think he was just sayin how family will defend their own. It’s natural, I know. I don’t think he meant it in a judging manner?

    Aside from small personal views that differ, can we all remain united in our fight for justice and trush and transparency in our local government?

    We all make up one heck of a team.

  129. #129 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    He is not retired. Don’t lie.

  130. #130 by Pete on September 23, 2011

    True, they didn’t plan on getting caught this time. Their hubris in murdering a citizen in front of scores of witnesses, a camera, and with their audio recorder running shows how comfortable they felt. Perhaps this was “phase 2″ to show the sheep who was in charge? Fuck off.

  131. #131 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    He had his shirt off, right? Did they not see where the tazer was being deployed?

  132. #132 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    All One wrote: “Why would anyone laugh at or be appalled by a beggar? Two words – FEAR and IGNORANCE.”

    I agree with half of what you wrote. It’s fear. We are hard wired for it. For all living things here on earth, existence is first and foremost about passing on the stuff of life, the genes that make us what and who we are. Some of the most fascinating phenomena to observe are the lengths to which living things go to get this done.

    I would submit that fear plays an important role in continuation of the species. One has a better chance of surviving to pass along one’s genes if they stick with their tribe and with other living things just like them. This is why fish school, animals herd, and tribes form. This is also why in places where everyone looks similar, tribes mark themselves distinctly so that everyone knows who’s who.

    It’s also why all humans fear folks who are very different than them. Sadly it is the hard-wired basis for racism, class-ism and all the other ‘isms. If we stick with our own kind we have a much better shot of passing along our genes, and that is what nature wants us to do above all else. So fear serves an important purpose in the only thing we know for sure to be the essence of life itself.

    Thus, is it really ignorant to feel and act out of fear? Maybe. But knowledge of where fear comes from seems like a good starting point to me in moving beyond, and evolving our world into one dominated by love, compassion and most of all, understanding. And we are not going to get very far toward that goal by asserting that folks simply doing what nature programmed them to do are stupid.

  133. #133 by Johnny Donut on September 23, 2011

    EyeNeverSayNo :
    This clearly plays right into the hands of critics who say FFF latched onto the tragic murder of Thomas for political purposes.

    If the “political purpose” is to rid Fullerton of the crew who mismanaged its police department of thieves, thugs, brutalists and killers… well that’s ok with me.

    Also, enlighten us on the non-political solution to Fullerton’s problem.

  134. #134 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Karen :
    Why bunch all the officers that are there to protect us into one. Sad for you. I for one have been helped by the FPD I do not know if one of these officers came to my rescue but I will not condemn them all.

    Sadly.. “All it takes for evil to grow strong is for good men to stand still”

  135. #135 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 23, 2011

    Yay for Edmund Burke!!

    Here’s another of his civil responsibility quotes.

    “It is not enough in a situation of trust in the commonwealth, that a man means well to his country; it is not enough that in his single person he never did an evil act, but always voted according to his conscience, and even harangued against every design which he apprehended to be prejudicial to the interests of his country. This innoxious and ineffectual character, that seems formed upon a plan of apology and disculpation, falls miserably short of the mark of public duty. That duty demands and requires that what is right should not only be made known, but made prevalent; that what is evil should not only be detected, but defeated. When the public man omits to put himself in a situation of doing his duty with effect it is an omission that frustrates the purposes of his trust almost as much as if he had formally betrayed it. It is surely no very rational account of a man’s life, that he has always acted right but has taken special care to act in such a manner that his endeavours could not possibly be productive of any consequence.”

    Should be required reading.

  136. #136 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    Reality is clear. You know that. This group has made a tragic incident a very much us vs them game now. It’s a tragic incident for both sides. It’s a lose lose for both sides. Your side wouldnt have been happy without murder 1 for all 6 officers. That was known from the start by everyone. The suspense was in what would be filed even though most people knew it would be two officers for something similar to what was actually filed.

    The conspiracy theories on this blog are wild. It’s a good thing this blog is the minority in Fullerton. I’m just very glad to admit I don’t work for Fullerton. I couldn’t even imagine being a cop there now. Zero pro active policing, just a respond to calls with little interaction now. Main reason, because with this group around spewing lies the good cops will never be right again. It’s not a surprise the good cops are leaving quickly, hopefully coming to the city I work or live in.

    You talk about video’ing the cops in Fullerton now. That’s a great idea. You know about 1% of contacts turn into negative or force related? So needless to say you will have a ton of worthless video. Video is great and send your team to other cities soon. Just try to show some of the positive video you obtain to show the good cops too.

    There will always be bad cops, just like any other profession. Two appear to have done wrong and will be gone. There will be more today and tomorrow and until we all die. Finding them is the issue. There are many more good cops.

    Cops will always have negative contacts. Getting a ticket or getting arrested is never a pleasant enjoyable experience. Human interaction related to something a human doesn’t approve of or desire, leads to anger and hostility. People that commit crimes will always fight and run. Force will always be used in policing. Accepting both sides to policing is crucial. I teach classes on that very topic. Policies that are up to date, enforced, and audited. Interaction among police and supervision. Customer service and the wow factor.

    Most cities realize this aspect of policing. Fullerton does as well, outside of this group. We can only hope that this group starts to realize there has to be healing, has to be trust built, in order to move forward. Policing isn’t as easy as letting you guys dictate how policing will be done. You can be involved but policing is more complex than letting Bushala or Xer become the Chief of Police tomorrow.

    I enjoyed the exchanges on here until the filings. The debates were valuable and enjoyable. Now it’s not the same because now it will always be about more more more, no matter what the facts are. I understand. I’ve dealt with it myself before. When activists believe something or have a cause, it doesn’t matter how much info and facts you provide, they will never believe any of it and will never change their minds. That’s where we are here.

    I’ll be around browsing but not much else. Good luck with your cause. If I pull you over or you call me as the watch commander, you can be assured I will be recording you as well and you will have my undivided attention until you disrespect me, the police, or the community. At that point, we will treat you exactly how you treat me. Loving and respecting will get you the same. Argumentative, cussing, lies, and disrespect will get a short quick visit from us.

    See ya all soon.

  137. #137 by Anon on September 23, 2011

    Blah, blah, blah. Don’t you ever get tired of spewing you opinions on others?

  138. #138 by The Fullerton Shadow on September 23, 2011

    I don’t know if Jones is evil. That is your term, not mine. Please try not to derail the issue.

    I do know that he is an incompetent bully, a big-mouth, an ignoramus, and an all-round municipal disgrace. Do a search on this very site and you’ll find a litany of bloviations, pontifications, rude ejaculations, and mindless ramblings.

    He’s been on the council for 15 years as DTF (his baby as he likes to say) turned a free-for-all and he was the one who oversaw the FPD descent into the cesspool and turned it loose to clean up the mess he made.

    Did FFFF “latch onto” the Thomas murder? Of course not. It was just the final straw.

  139. #139 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    The solution is certainly political, vote in new leaders who will see that the FPD Chief implements needed reform. Here in Laguna Beach it was the City Council and a citizen’s commission that forced Chief Sellers to implement reforms to the way our PD inetracts with our own Kelly Thomas’ and we’ve got a lot of ‘em). And while Sellers was not missed when he left for Fullerton, folks here still give him credit for working closely with the council and commission to make changes that have really worked out well here.

    That being said, there will always be those that find fault with making political hay out of tragedy. All I’m sayin’ is that I think FFF could do a better, less clumsy job of walking that line. Crassly stretching each and every Thomas case point for purely political purposes doesn’t strike me as a very good way to win over the masses.

  140. #140 by The Fullerton Harpoon on September 23, 2011

    “This group has made a tragic incident a very much us vs them game now. It’s a tragic incident for both sides. ”

    A game? Really? You think anyone is playing around here.

    Who made the murder of Kelly Thomas into divisive issue? Not the cops who did it, who covered it up, who stonewalled, who trolled this site attacking Ron Thomas, not you?

    I notice you immediately launch into the use of the term “sides.” You betray your phony concern and impartiality. There is only one side – justice – and you and your ilk have decided not to be on it.

  141. #141 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    UC Irvine students guilty of interrupting a public meeting. That was supposed to be protected speech also? Hmmmm

  142. #142 by Amy on September 23, 2011

    What makes you think everyone here wants to hear all this crap? It’s like you never shut up.

  143. #143 by Fred Alcazar on September 23, 2011

    “If I pull you over or you call me as the watch commander, you can be assured I will be recording you as well and you will have my undivided attention until you disrespect me, the police, or the community. At that point, we will treat you exactly how you treat me. Loving and respecting will get you the same. Argumentative, cussing, lies, and disrespect will get a short quick visit from us.”

    Excellent. Overpriced service with a sneer and a threat, to boot. You jackwipes really are clueless.

  144. #144 by Oscar Wilde on September 23, 2011

    “will get a short quick visit from us.”

    You mean a visit like Kelly got? Hmm. Now that’s a death threat! How’s that death threat working’ out for your boys Ramos and Cicinelli?

  145. #145 by Jaynbond on September 23, 2011

    91c: Thanx for the invite to the protest, but you are too late. I have been at the last three protest right there beside you. I don’t agree with you but I wanted to see what you were all about. I respect that you put action to your convictions, and again I refer to my favorite bumper sticker. It says..

    “I may not agree with your bumper sticker, but I’ll defend your right to stick it!”

    Now I want to do a rally in support of the Police Officers, maybe I’ll see you again soon.

  146. #146 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    “When activists believe something or have a cause, it doesn’t matter how much info and facts you provide, they will never believe any of it and will never change their minds. That’s where we are here.”

    Funny how all those facts that you provided ended up being not very factual.

    You’ll be missed.

  147. #147 by Corrupt on September 23, 2011

    Their interuption had nothing to do with the meeting… they just did not like the guys religion. Fullerton meetings are all about the way Fullerton is being run and the corruption being condoned by the council. As you are quick to point out….. big difference.

  148. #148 by Oscar Wilde on September 23, 2011

    I wouldn’t hold that rally anyplace but the basement of FPD HQ.

    Maybe in the holding cells?

  149. #149 by Jt on September 23, 2011

    Hate to ever agree with Jaybond, but given what we are learning about FPD, that might actually be not too far from their “standard operating procedure.”

    Which only suggests that jail terms may be appropriate for many more officers than the two charged so far in this case.

  150. #150 by Justice for ALL on September 23, 2011

    WHY? BECAUSE of the culture of corruption and cover up from the top down, and BECAUSE of the BLUE LINE OF SILENCE, and BECAUSE of their stated NON -DUTY to protect any lives but their own.

    BECAUSE, when called to “assist” they are far too often known to shoot a sick loved one who needed help, than they are to safely transport that person to a hospital. It happens over and over and over again. THAT’S why. Perhaps if you went to some Local NAMI support group meetings you would understand the reality faced by families of the mentally ill.

    It is VERY risky to believe that LE will protect the life of a mentally ill loved one; LE is much more concerned with protecting THEIR OWN LIVES and they are all about shooting FIRST and asking questions LATER. Important life and death questions such as, “Was that only a stick, or is it a gun?” “Was that only a garden hose nozzle, or is it a gun?” “Is there a gun in his waist band, or it only a water bottle?” “Is he mentally ill and terrified and can not respond to instructions appropriately, or was he “resisting?” “Is the person mentally ill and not able to reason correctly or respond in a socially appropriate manner, or did he “disrespect a cop” and therefore “deserve” to be beaten to death?”

    The officers far too often do not have any common sense when it comes to mental illness and they have absolutely no sympathy for sufferers of mental illness. Instead, they WRONGLY believe that mental illness makes someone more dangerous to them, and so they justify even GREATER violence against them.

    If a mentally ill person does have something in their hand, almost anything at all, even if it was only a stick, the LE will claim that it WAS still a “deadly weapon.”

    LE are exonerated all the time when people are beaten or shot, and it is usually ALWAYS found that their “use deadly force was justified” BECAUSE THEIR OWN personal safety comes FIRST. EVEN if only a stick was waved in their general direction, or even if the person was completely unarmed, as in Kelly’s case, and EVEN if there were several officers there, and only one sick person.

    The officers are ALL about editing video tapes for their own self protection, and they are NOT about the truth. Ask Mitrice Richardson’s family. Do some research. Get educated on what really goes on. Just because you have been lucky so far, it doesn’t mean that your neighbor will be.

    There ARE good officers out there, who do a great job. But, within the culture of corruption of LE that currently exists, the risk of having an ill family member lose their their life is VERY REAL.

    Perhaps your eyes will not be opened until tragedy stikes closer to your own home. SAD FOR YOU. And SAD for EVERYONE that your eyes are not yet open to the truth.

  151. #151 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    Jaynbond :
    91c: Thanx for the invite to the protest, but you are too late. I have been at the last three protest right there beside you. I don’t agree with you but I wanted to see what you were all about. I respect that you put action to your convictions, and again I refer to my favorite bumper sticker. It says..
    “I may not agree with your bumper sticker, but I’ll defend your right to stick it!”
    Now I want to do a rally in support of the Police Officers, maybe I’ll see you again soon.

    will you be there to instruct them on proper use of tasers and batons

  152. #152 by fullerton on September 23, 2011

    Thomas father is an x police officer himself so first of all he knows what its like to deal with his sons type and his condition . his father kick him out of thier house and had a restaining order oh him why now try to help him .ITS TOO LATE why did he pull the plug so soon and no give his son a chance …..HE DID NOT WANT TO BOTHERD …This guy is a joke and wants to blame the police in sted of him self…..I See no Tears. ..they did their jobs

  153. #153 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    The Fullerton Shadow :
    I don’t know if Jones is evil. That is your term, not mine. Please try not to derail the issue.
    I do know that he is an incompetent bully, a big-mouth, an ignoramus, and an all-round municipal disgrace. Do a search on this very site and you’ll find a litany of bloviations, pontifications, rude ejaculations, and mindless ramblings.
    He’s been on the council for 15 years as DTF (his baby as he likes to say) turned a free-for-all and he was the one who oversaw the FPD descent into the cesspool and turned it loose to clean up the mess he made.
    Did FFFF “latch onto” the Thomas murder? Of course not. It was just the final straw.

    I cannot wait until the Citizens On Patrol brings their own suit against the people who tried to coverup a murder.

  154. #154 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    EyeNeverSayNo :
    The solution is certainly political, vote in new leaders who will see that the FPD Chief implements needed reform. Here in Laguna Beach it was the City Council and a citizen’s commission that forced Chief Sellers to implement reforms to the way our PD inetracts with our own Kelly Thomas’ and we’ve got a lot of ‘em). And while Sellers was not missed when he left for Fullerton, folks here still give him credit for working closely with the council and commission to make changes that have really worked out well here.
    That being said, there will always be those that find fault with making political hay out of tragedy. All I’m sayin’ is that I think FFF could do a better, less clumsy job of walking that line. Crassly stretching each and every Thomas case point for purely political purposes doesn’t strike me as a very good way to win over the masses.

    It is politics that led to his death

    You do not hire one eyed purple people eaters with the aid of “scratch my back I’ll scratch yours” politics

  155. #155 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    ^^oops.. meant to say *without the aid of

  156. #156 by blessusall on September 23, 2011

    No, I am not from CA but I know that what happened there happens all across the country and world and it doesn’t have to. There are better ways.

    And I am keeping my word. I just thanked a police officer who I know sometimes transports people to our local psychiatric hospital for his compassionate service. He told me he has taken several training courses offerred by the police department and some other local agencies on how to interact with mentally ill and/or psychotic persons and it has been helpful to him.

  157. #157 by still love fullerton on September 23, 2011

    fullerton :
    Thomas father is an x police officer himself so first of all he knows what its like to deal with his sons type and his condition . his father kick him out of thier house and had a restaining order oh him why now try to help him .ITS TOO LATE why did he pull the plug so soon and no give his son a chance …..HE DID NOT WANT TO BOTHERD …This guy is a joke and wants to blame the police in sted of him self…..I See no Tears. ..they did their jobs

    the compassion that spews from you, makes me puke!!

  158. #158 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    Shadow wrote: “I don’t know if Jones is evil. That is your term, not mine. Please try not to derail the issue.”

    Come on, be objective for a moment.

    You tagged Jones with evilly characterizing the brutal murder of Kelly Thomas as “a tragedy – for himself and the gang of thugs he set loose on Downtown Fullerton.”

    Now you want to say that to question that tag is to derail the issue? Where is the intellectual honesty in that?

    You seem to believe that you should be able to write whatever you want without question as long as it advances the issue. To my ears that sounds a lot like the cops who think they can do pretty much whatever they feel they need to do because they are the good guys and the ends justifies the means.

    Lastly, I’d suggest that a more effective way to characterize and acknowledge FFF’s involvement and motivations in the Thomas murder would be to slightly modify that last statement you made:

    “Did FFFF “latch onto” the Thomas murder? Of course. It was the final straw.”

    Get it? With that little bit of non-defensive honesty you totally disarm the charge while scoring a big point.

  159. #159 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    I don’t, but a simple solution for you would be to ignore my posts and just read the crap of those with whom you agree.

  160. #160 by calwatch on September 23, 2011

    He’s collecting a pension from OCERS as he works for OCSO for six years (five years minimum to vest). Thus, he is retired and that is an accurate description.

  161. #161 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    Agreed, nice point.

  162. #162 by Justice for ALL on September 23, 2011

    The pure, unadulterated, IGNORANCE displayed by fullerton is mind boggling, and does not even deserve to be dignified by a response. “fullerton” needs to do some serious studying and then come back later, before further embarrassing herself.

  163. #163 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    Nice response sock-puppet.

  164. #164 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    EyeNeverSayNo :
    “Did FFFF “latch onto” the Thomas murder? Of course. It was the final straw.”
    Get it? With that little bit of non-defensive honesty you totally disarm the charge while scoring a big point.

    They didn’t have to latch onto anything. When a fish jumps into your lap you eat it.

  165. #165 by business owner on September 23, 2011

    Fullerton, your an idiot, people like you should be chraged to take a breath of air! He and his family tried for years to care for him or get help for him, but the current systems works against them. KT was an adult and knew the system all to well and the they had no choice to let him go. I am tired of people pointing there fingers at the family.

  166. #166 by Jt on September 23, 2011

    Cakes, you know I will miss you. :-)

    You’ve said a lot of stuff on this board, a lot of it true, some false, some thought-provoking, some reasonable, some not. I thank you because you have helped me understand the mindset of contemporary police officers in this region, and that has been truly valuable.

    There is one thing in your post though I really want to address. This is for me the essential issue here. it is the issue of whether the police deserve or should feel as if they require citizens to be “respectful”, and what the consequences should be if they are not.

    For me, this is what this case, and the Mam, Quinonez and other soon-to-be known cases of FPD abuse are all about.

    Let me just put this out there. Disrespect of a LEO is not itself a crime. It is NEVER a valid excuse for any of the following: assault, false arrest, perjury, murder.

    But that is what we are seeing in case after case. Officers who feel “disrespected” fly off the handle, lose it, manhandle the citizenry, arrest them on bogus charges, and commit perjury about these cases.

    Look at the Quinonez case. Dude’s Dad was killed by police. Clearly he has issues with them because of that. Walks by Kenton Hampton, sees him busting somebody, says something about “cops killed my dad.” Hampton sees this as “disrespect”, smacks him into a wall and arrests him for being drunk in public despite Quinonez having 0.00 blood alcohol level.

    No. This will not stand. We have the right to disrespect each other without being beaten or falsely arrested for it. You can disrespect me, and I can disrespect you. Being a cop doesn’t make you special, and it doesn’t entitle you to respectful treatment from every person at all times. If I am clearly threatening bodily harm to you during an encounter, by all means use force if necessary to subdue me and take me in (though kindly stop when I am subdued rather than just beating me for the fun of it, but that’s a separate issue). If I am rather just mouthy, disrespectful, and contempuous of your authority, you know what? Too bad. That is not a crime.

    It is a new era. The citizenry is increasingly well-informed, well armed with cameras and ready to use them, and ready to disseminate information about bad policing at a moment’s notice. We will exchange information, we will show up at City council, we wil publicize you, and we will call for investigations of EACH AND EVERY incident of police brutality or misconduct we witness or hear about.

    Being a cop is NOT like being in a gang where you are entitled to respect. Being a cop means you work for the citizenry. They have every right in the world to disrespect you. A lot more disrespect is coming your way soon. The cop mentality of “don’t you dare disrespect me” is a relic of the past which will only lead to lawsuits and citizen revolts ala Fullerton. And we’re not even close to being done with this department yet.

    Cops – do not think that the public must fear and respect you. Do your job, do it politely and professionally, and understand that RESPECT IS EARNED. If you can maintain a calm and professional aspect even as I flip you off, you may actually earn that respect.

    There will come a day when I can walk right up to a cop and politely tell him to fuck off and he will know that there is absolutely nothing he can or should do about it. That I am just expressing my first amendment rights, and those rights are far more important than his fragile ego or sense of self-worth related to his position of power and authority.

    Any cop who does not understand this will be forced out of public service. The citizenry will no longer tolerate public servants who think they exist on some higher strata above the citizenry. If you cannot deal with this Reality, you must find a line of work in which you do not profess to “protect and serve.” “Protecting and serving” require humility and an ability to endue the disrespect of those for whom you serve.

  167. #167 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    business owner :
    Fullerton, your an idiot, people like you should be chraged to take a breath of air! He and his family tried for years to care for him or get help for him, but the current systems works against them. KT was an adult and knew the system all to well and the they had no choice to let him go. I am tired of people pointing there fingers at the family.

    It is like they cannot comprehend Kelly was born in approx 1974? 37 years ago

    I would imagine his Mother and Father tried to do all they could but he could not become mindful of his actions and they could not legally force him to do anything …

  168. #168 by Jt on September 23, 2011

    Second.

  169. #169 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 23, 2011

    …and that seems to be the truth. No one was watching.

    Here’s a tidbit I didn’t know before. I assumed the camera over the beating has a microphone in it. It didn’t.

    This is from SFGate.com

    Ramos was wearing a digital audio device that captured the exchange, in which prosecutors say he told Thomas he was going to “F him up.”

    Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/09/21/national/a105209D07.DTL#ixzz1Yo3nccEd

    He was wearing a digital recorder and he did what he did to Kelly anyway?

    People are right. He could possible get of if he uses the Mental Health/Mental Defect defense.

  170. #170 by anon on September 23, 2011

    @MeYou–Good one!

  171. #171 by anon on September 23, 2011

    This explains a lot.

    blessusall :I can tell you, having worked in the mental health field for 25 years and with law enforcement, that the nature of schizophrenia, the disease itself, causes symptoms and disorganized thinking that lead to noncompliance with treatment and medications and a whole host problems–and I will not go into the long, long list of horrendous side effects of medications that help me to understand why some people don’t want to take the meds. In most places, as far as I know, law enforcement officers have the ability to order a person be transported to a hospital for observation/evaluation if there is reason to believe they are mentally impaired in some way (psychotic or suicidal for example) that represents a risk of harm to themselves or others. Where I live, it is called a “1013″ after the form the LEO or a doctor or licensed therapist signs that the person requires evaluation for their own safety. For this reason, LEO’s can be an invaluable part of the treatment team or support network of mentally ill people and their families. Where I live, we are fortunate to have kind, compassionate LEOs who are trained in dealing with mentally ill and we often advise family members, who are desperately trying to help a loved one who because of the disorder cannot make reasonable and competent decisions for themselves to contact the police, go to the court and get a judge to sign a court order for eval (which will be carried out by a sheriff who will find the person and transport them to the ER will they will be evaluated and possibly admitted), or file a restraining order so that if they violate it, the LEO can be called and then “1013″ them and bring them to the hospital where they can be helped. This can be the best thing that can happen for someone who is in a psychotic state and unable to understand their own impairment and need for treatment. A family member can’t make them go to the hospital, even an outpatient doctor or therapist can’t do that–the police officer or sheriff can legally take them into custody and take them to a hospital for evaluation and treatment. Even if a doctor signs a 1013, it will still be a LEO who does the transporting. These LEOs are good people who work in a capacity to protect and serve even mentally ill people whose thoughts and judgment are impaired and whose safety is therefore compromised. We think of LE as partners with the family, medical and psychiatric providers in providing help and support to these very vulnerable people. I understand even more now how fortunate we are to have the kind and compassionate officers we have in my town, which is actually is not exactly a progressive place. Like many places, there is a paucity of services available to people with severe mental illness that renders them incapable of working or holding down a job in order to care for themselves. Services for someone who is severely mental ill with very little financial resources are extremely limited and getting more so in the current economic climate of our nation.Anyway, we have a continuum of care among treatment providers, including inpatient and outpatient settings, that also includes law enforcement. I intend to be even more verbally appreciative of these men and women when I see them because I know that they treat the mentally ill people in our community with the dignity and respect that they deserve.
    I can add that there are ways to de-escalate and even restrain an out of control psychotic person (which Kelly was not when he was attacked and murdered) that do not require weapons or use of force in any way. Our staff at the hospital and our LEOs have been trained in these techniques that are effective. We very rarely use restraints or put our hands on a patient in any way, and, in fact for the most part are not allowed to do so; if someone is so out of control that they must be restrained or even in defense if a staff person is being threatened, we know how to do this in a way that minimizes the possibility of physical harm to anyone, including staff and other patients. It’s really not that hard and it is very effective, and, again, because we are trained in de-escalation, we rarely have to use physical techniques.
    I am grateful that our law enforcement here do not have the kind of attitude toward mentally ill/homeless people that apparently exists in other communities. I will more consciously express my sincere gratitude to these men and women from now on.
    Not every person with schizophrenia has a disease process that takes the same course. There are, in fact, varying degrees of severity of mental illnesses, just as there are varying degress of severity of medical problems. Science does not yet understand why this is or even what exactly causes it. Every person does not respond the same way to medications, either, which is why there are so many and why some people have to go through years of trying different meds, or new meds, in a hope to find one that helps them to be stable. Kelly Thomas had a type of schizophrenia that is severe and chronic. I wish I could go into more about that because I would love to help people understand it in a way that would keep them from blaming him or his family for his mental illness. I, too, have had family members with schizophrenia and one who would not stay in the house, probably due to paranoid delusions, auditory and visual hallucinations. Sometimes, for instance, they are convinced that the house has been “bugged” and so they will not stay in that house. You can put them in another house and eventually, they come to believe that they are being watched and followed and monitored there as well. They also may believe that whoever these nefarious people are who are after them are going to attempt to poison their food. So they don’t stay in a house where they think someone could find out where they live and then do these things to them. They are afraid. I recently worked with a woman who had her first psychotic break at 13. She is now close to 40. She has a family who loves her. They want her to stay in their home with them. But she is convinced that there are people in the attic and she also “sees” a group that is paid by the government to go around bashing in people’s heads in a field next door to her parents home. She won’t stay there. So they got her an apartment, but eventually, she became convince that these same things were happening. If she left her apartment to go somewhere, she would be convinced that someone had come in and poisoned the food and water supply. So she left there. We got her into a group home…same thing. She has been on every medication there is to treat schizophrenia, and although she sometimes shows improvement, she has fixed delusions and auditory and visual hallucinations that never go away. Her current plan is to “just keep moving,” stay at one shelter one night, another the next, spend a couple of days in the hospital, and so forth, just to stay one step ahead of these people who are after her. She also believes she “hears” other people’s thoughts and sometimes hears people thinking and planning awful things against her; she has been convinced that she heard me plotting against her–and I can assure you, I was not. So even though I am a person who cares about her, she doesn’t trust me because her thought disorder causes her to hear what she says is my negative thoughts about her.
    In the end, it does not matter what Kelly’s parents did or did not do in terms of what happened to him. Their actions did not cause the actions of the F6 no matter how much you try to connec that to them. Whether homeless or not, loved and cared for by family or not, mentally ill or not, there is no justification for a man to be beaten to death by law enforcement officers the way Kelly was.

  172. #172 by MeYou on September 23, 2011

    anon :
    @MeYou–Good one!

    :P

  173. #173 by Anyone? on September 23, 2011

    What ever happened to the guy who got attacked by FPD Officer Cary Tong? Anyone know?

  174. #174 by Save US from the Fullerton Cops on September 23, 2011

    Adios, Officer Rincon.

    Best wishes, and please try to keep your DAR turned on (rather than your libido).

  175. #175 by Jt on September 23, 2011

    Veth Mam case or another one?

  176. #176 by Justice for ALL on September 23, 2011

    You are really so concerned about semantics??

    And you seem to prefer that everyone say, “Did FFFF “latch onto” the Thomas murder? Of course. It was the final straw.”

    I believe that to nearly everyone BUT you, the fact that Kelly’s murder was the “final straw” is an absolute given and patently obvious.

    I could be wrong, but I haven’t noticed anyone, but you, who is more worried about semantics than they are OUTRAGED by the culture of corrupton and cover up that has been implicity condoned by city hall.

  177. #177 by digustedbythis on September 23, 2011

    Fullerton: look up our wonderful CA laws re the mentally ill. State law prevented him from forcing his son to get the hel. If you are a cop then you should know that one cannot be commited INvoluntarily if one does not present a danger to himself or others. If he so happened to prove to the dr’s that he passed his eval. then he’s home free. If he didn’t go on his own (as we know) then you can’t do shit to him. The rest. order was an attempt to get him to be forced to get help. I have a friend who is going thru this now but with a teen. Even since the kid is just a teen, state laws are standing in the way since the kid is really good at fooling the doctors. It happens far too often, I’m afraid.

  178. #178 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    I can see where you get that idea, but it presupposes that hiring a one-eyed cop is far outside the norm. It’s not.

    Many departments across the country hire cops with such a disability, particulary if they have already been trained and have some experience. Other’s don’t, but each department sets its own standards. In one case I read about recently a department that fired a cop that had lost an eye was actually ORDERED by that state’s supreme court to reinstate the one-eyed cop, and not just to desk duty.

    Here’s where we agree: Cicinelli has proven to be a sadistic asshole who need to do serious time in state prison for his crimes and never again be allowed to wear a badge.

  179. #179 by Jt on September 23, 2011

    Hey – great post. If you don’t mind me asking, where in the hell do you live? What kinds of training are required for LEOs in terms of dealig with the mentally ill there? Is this compassionate attitude on the parts of the LEOs you note coming from the top down – from the Chief of Police?

    We are going to need good role models when this is all said and done and we try to put Fullerton policing back together at some point – whether FPD or OCSD. Information about cities where the police force actually exhibits compassion, sensitivity, and professionalism is badly needed. Now is still the time to knock Officer Humpty Dumpty off the damn wall but we are going to have to put him together again one of these days.

  180. #180 by 9c1copcar on September 23, 2011

    Jaynbond,

    I welcome you. Please let me know who you are tomorrow. I will gladly shake your hand.

  181. #181 by anon on September 23, 2011

    Looks like you got LOTS of fish jumping in Fullerton!

  182. #182 by The Fullerton Shadow on September 23, 2011

    “Evilly,” really? Is that the the best you can do?

    Weak.

  183. #183 by Brick Sauce on September 23, 2011

    Shadow, welcome back!

    Don’t get involved with OneEye.

    He is in love with his own written word and will split hairs about the time of day.

  184. #184 by 9c1copcar on September 23, 2011

    Blessusall,

    First of all, thank you for your post. It sounds like the LEO’s in your area are really caring and well trained; thank them for me.
    If you are a nurse, I would like to also thank you and all of the nurse/medical staff that help people each and every day in need.

  185. #185 by KFI fan on September 23, 2011

    MeYou :
    It will be interesting to see how the Feds view the $900,000 if true.
    He and others were privy to the same evidence and video the DA used to charge the participants therein with Murder.

    WHO IS THE COP LAWYER WHO INSULTED RON THOMAS WITH COMMENTS OF KELLY WHEN THEY TRIED TO PREESURE HIM TO TAKE THE SETTLEMENT AND WALK. DID THIS CORRUPT LAWYER SEE AND HEAR ALL THE EVIDENCE.

    WHAT’S HIS NAME AND CAN ANYTHING CRIMINAL OR PROFEESIONALLY BE DONE ABOUT HIS DENIAL OF THE ACCUSATIONS MADE BY RON THOMAS.
    IS THIS MAGGOT ATTORNEY STILL ON THE CITY OR POLICE UNION PAYROLL. LET’S GO AFTER HIM AND I GAURANTEE HE’LL GIVE UP EVERYONE EVERYTHING HE KNOWS ABOUT THIS CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY BY OUR CITY AND POLICE CANCER.
    AFTER ALL AS ALL ATTORNEYS THEY WILL FUCK ALL THEIR CLIENTS. THE D A OFFICE DEMONSTRATES THAT, THEY ALL ARE EASY TO OWN. $$$$$

  186. #186 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    Exactly JT. Didn’t mean for my message to read the way you read it. Disrespect doesn’t mean abused. It means I treat people how they treat me. Exactly, every time. If you respect me and are a normal human, I treat you the same. If you disrespect me as a cop, I raise my treatment of you to the same level. If a crime occurs, it’s treated as such. If not and we are done, we leave. As the captain or watch commander, your complaint is received in the same manner. Honesty and respect go a long ways. Without it, you can complete this form and turn it in tomorrow. I’m the same way off duty. Drunks are the worst. I treat people on and off duty the exact same way.

  187. #187 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    Name one that wasn’t? I knew the whole story the whole time. I called itbexactly as it happened. I called the charges as well.

  188. #188 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    Nope. those cops were dealt with as they should be. Now onto the next one for you?

  189. #189 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    Sides has been formed by you, not us.

  190. #190 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    Yes Fred. Act like a jack wipe you will always be treated like a jack wipe. Legally of course. Try it.

  191. #191 by The Orange County Register on September 23, 2011

    Officers in Kelly Thomas case still paid

    “I realize that, to the public, that appears wrong,” Goodrich said. “But we have to make sure that we are making lawful decisions when it comes to employment status.”

    Departments that “act a little bit rashly, a knee-jerk reaction before all the information is in,” often find themselves in arbitration or in court, said Ron Cottingham, the president of the Peace Officers Research Association of California. The group is helping the Fullerton officers with their legal defense.

    “It’s possible” that the city could take action against the officers before they go to trial on the criminal charges, Gennaco said. But he declined to give a timeline or say how long his investigation will take.

    http://www.ocregister.com/news/officers-318664-fullerton-police.html

  192. #192 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    I expected the snide remarks. Just remember reality is reality. If you want to act like a jack wipe as Fred says, you will always be treated as such. Especially if you have been drinking. A drunk jack wipe has a simple answer, 647f. 6 hours to sober up. Best law in the world for a drunk ass wipe.

    Anyways, i say it like it is. Reality.

  193. #193 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    True. That’s why my nickname among friends is Piggy and I always love the donut jokes.

  194. #194 by Paul on September 23, 2011

    My wife works in a mental health facility in a city very near Fullerton. Guess what? The police do not kill the mentally ill. They bring them in and get put on holds for several days. If it is severe enough what they were caught doing, then there is an area of the hospital called the locked ward where they would go. Fullerton PD is a travesty and it is caused by a person on the current City Council – the former police chief who hired these thugs. The other members go along to protect their downtown bars and restaurant contributors and developers. Thats how you get enough money to get elected.
    Now the problem is: FPD costs $38 millon per year to operate (poorly) compared to OCSD. In addition, the self insured city is liable for the settlements on all these cases of mistaken identity, sexual harassment and death. On top of the $38 million per year will be another $25,000,000 to settle the wrongful death case. This is based on the LASD settlement of $24.5 million in a case that did not result in death.
    Fullerton residents cannot afford such waste, duplicity, pension liabilities, sick time to keep from being fired, and all the other crap written into city contracts passed by the current city council. Time for an overhaul.
    An example, how can you hire a one eye cop? How does he/she pass the physical?

  195. #195 by My Username Rocks on September 23, 2011

    Anyone see business owner say “your an idiot” and misuse “there” in the same post?

    loolll

  196. #196 by Edumacated on September 23, 2011

    Is it just me, or does it look like Mayor Dick suffered a stroke at some point? Looking at footage from city council meetings, it always appears that one side of his face is constantly in a state of semi-paralysis?

  197. #197 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    What’s weak about it?

    If as you assert Jones truly believes that Thomas’ murder is only “a tragedy – for himself and the gang of thugs he set loose on Downtown Fullerton,” then that is pure evil of some of the worst kind. What other word would you like to me to use? Better yet, what other conclusion do you want your readers to draw? You went on at length to make sure we understood you believe he didn’t just mis-speak, so there is not a lot of room left for anything else but pure evil.

    If you don’t want to dialog, that’s fine, but what’s really weak is your in-artful dodge of the actual content of my post, that alone speaks volumes. My work is done. :)

  198. #198 by scotty on September 23, 2011

    The police union will post the reduced bail that Ramos will be given next week. The police union and the city of Fullerton will pass it on to the taxpayers. Ramos will be told to run and hide in Mexico until this is cleaned up. The union and police bosses are afraid that Ramos will give them up. If I was Ramos I’d be afraid of the other animals that I commited crimes with.

  199. #199 by business owner on September 23, 2011

    #196,
    Really, you can poke at my spelling all you want, but it does not change the facts!

  200. #200 by My Username Rocks on September 23, 2011

    So Goodbar says it “appears wrong” that the officers are on paid leave?

    It IS wrong that Ramos is STILL collecting pay while in jail.

  201. #201 by truthseeker on September 23, 2011

    When is the tape getting out? Does anyone know?

  202. #202 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    truthseeker :
    When is the tape getting out? Does anyone know?

    my guess.. not til trial starts

  203. #203 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    Justice For All wrote: “I believe that to nearly everyone BUT you, the fact that Kelly’s murder was the ‘final straw’ is an absolute given and patently obvious.”

    Really? I understand that a core group of you were here long before the Thomas murder brought so much non-local attention to FFF, but I’m sure Tony’s logs and visitor data would confirm a huge spike in traffic since the news went national.

    From my own work in this business I know that the rule of thumb is that the vast majority of posts are made by just 3 or 4% of site visitors. So looking at the posting activity it’s likely thousands of unique visitors are now hitting this site and reading the material and comments. Most are coming here to read what folks are saying about a terrible crime and tragedy they have heard about on the news.

    It’s absurd to assume that even a small portion of these newer visitors know the history of FFF and its battle for accountability in city government. I live just a few miles away, and I had no idea until I took the time to look through the older material. Few (as in almsost no one) will bother.

    And no, my point is hardly about semantics, that should be ‘patently obvious.’ :)

  204. #204 by blessusall on September 23, 2011

    Psychotherapist. And thank you. I feel it is important to educate, although I suspect that the only people reading these posts may be the ones who already get it. But I’ll do it anyway. We need more education and understanding. I hate the stigmatization of mentally ill that leads to their being treated with indifference, disdain, and outright abuse. I also hate to see people overgeneralize and begin to see all LE as “bad.” There are good people who protect and serve everyday in a difficult job. However, I also believe that we must hold LE accountable and give consequences for unlawful behavior and certainly, in this scenario we must continue to seek justice for Kelly Thomas.

  205. #205 by scotty on September 23, 2011

    truthseeker :
    When is the tape getting out? Does anyone know?

    It was thrown into the shredder.

  206. #206 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    Yes, during discovery. And then watch, it will be the defense that makes it public. John Barnett would like nothin’ more than for the audio and video to get out right now so that he and others can attack attack attack, and diminish thus the shock value as much as possible well prior to jury selection.

  207. #207 by BTR on September 23, 2011

    cheers:

    2 – 4 – 6 – 8 who is bubba going to fornicate with?

    Too bad all of them couldn’t get life in with bubba.

  208. #208 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 23, 2011

    “It was thrown into the shredder.”

    Yes. But first T-Rack and my bosses, Susan and Mike, made a copy and they have an editor at the Deathstar in Santa Ana working feverishly on making Ramos look like he was actually giving Kelly a deep tissue massage. Oh and the audio, by the time it gets heard in court Ramos will be saying, “these hands are getting ready to relieve your stress.” It’s all part of the DA’s conspiracy that never was.

  209. #209 by blessusall on September 23, 2011

    Well, no, it’s not the homeless part that killed him. It was the six police officers who did that. Ron Thomas’ son, Kelly Thomas, would still be alive if six Fullerton police officers had not beaten him to death.

    It frankly doesn’t matter whether he was loved or cared for by anyone. It has been established that he was doing nothing wrong when he was approached by a police officer who bullied him and threatened him for 16 minutes before he attempted to run away, was attacked, and beaten to death.

  210. #210 by blessusall on September 23, 2011

    I was responding to #53.

  211. #211 by Bye-Bye on September 23, 2011

    Reality Is said:
    “Force will always be used in policing. Accepting both sides to policing is crucial. I teach classes on that very topic”

    Reality Is said:
    “Force will always be used in policing. Accepting both sides to policing is crucial. I teach classes on that very topic”

    Most of your posts have been egregious, insulting and juvenile. When you first started posting, most thought you were loathsome degenerate punching a keyboard in your parents cellar. Based on your narrow, insipid posts, you have no business in police work. Do the public a favor and find a career other than dealing with the public. You have made a spectacle of yourself. That is the reality. Good riddance!

  212. #212 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    oh hello there. :)

  213. #213 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    I still need to research this. From day one, we have trained to say taser taser taser and shoot center mass just like a gun. I guess that is not at the heart but center mass is usually going to get pretty darn close.

  214. #214 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    Pretty ironic timing. I have been paying attention to the homeless lately and how they act. Just to see if I can figure out what might be wrong with them and what their mental status is. The other night, a mental guy punched a cop right in the face 3 times. Cop opened the door, and wham. Luckily he was able to stay alert and knock the guy completely out quickly or it could have been a tragic situation on both ends. This guy weighed 160 pounds. As people have said, schizo’s are very dangerous. How to handle them is always the question.

  215. #215 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    I heard that one time MeYou. I was shocked. I will be shocked again if he takes all $20 million and gives it to the homeless. Well, I guess it won’t be that because the attorney will probably get 40% at least. But still.

  216. #216 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    JT, you probably know what kind of mentally ill training cops get statewide, and nationwide. If you were to test every cop in the state or the nation, they would all fail. We do know they are dangerous, very dangerous, and have killed numerous cops over the years. How to diagnose that quickly, in seconds, is very hard and probably impossible. Back to standard policing, and realizing for good cops, if you do end up in that fight, fight until in custody and no matter how hurt you are, that’s the end.

  217. #217 by T N Z on September 23, 2011

    Susan Kang, why would you be your own boss?

  218. #218 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    You are blind to reality JFA. You see part of the truth, but then you sway to the far side.

    We care about many more things other than ourselves. Yes, our not getting hurt and killed is pretty high on the list. But other people’s lives are also very high. That’s why I’m the first one into a shots still being fired scene, and first into a house on fire, or first into a burning car. Often.

    So think how you may. You are wrong.

  219. #219 by Ex Fullerton Res on September 23, 2011

    My son and I saw Kelly around town very frequently and not once did I feel uncomfortable in his presence. We saw him mostly at the transit depot (where my 2 year old loved watching the trains) but also at the dog park/Hunt branch library. I remember one April afternoon right before we moved from Fullerton Kelly was sitting on a rock in the middle of some trees. My toddler ran ahead of me and near where Kelly was sitting and Kelly said, “See these trees? God made them. God made all of this, and God loves you.” He had never spoken to us before and never spoke to us again but I will never forget how childlike he was sitting under the tree marveling at what surrounded him. I never, EVER thought him to be threatening, menacing, scary, etc, and we were in the same place at the same time at least once every 2 weeks. In fact I never saw him bother anybody, he really seemed like he preferred to keep to himself.

    Anyway, that is my memory of Kelly, since you asked, Rebecca.

  220. #220 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    Nothing to do with the meeting? Really? Ok.

  221. #221 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    He’s a subcontracted city attorney for Fullerton. No clue what that whole true story is but that attorney is very prominent and very well known throughout the nation.

  222. #222 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    You realize bubba doesn’t come close to him right? He never leaves isolation and no one ever had a chance to get close to him. Never will.

  223. #223 by The Fullerton Harpoon on September 23, 2011

    “If you cannot deal with this Reality, you must find a line of work in which you do not profess to “protect and serve.” “Protecting and serving” require humility and an ability to endue the disrespect of those for whom you serve.”

    Jt, I suggest Reality get a job as waiter where he can offer his customers the same level of respect he gets. After all, cops serve us. They work for us. At least in theory.

    I’m going to publish this comment as it’s own post. Nail on the head.

  224. #224 by Jt on September 23, 2011

    Reality Is :I still need to research this. From day one, we have trained to say taser taser taser and shoot center mass just like a gun. I guess that is not at the heart but center mass is usually going to get pretty darn close.

    I hope you do research this, especially if you are a captain or watch commander in a major PD. The tasing death case in Lake Arrowhead is really the last straw in terms of inappropriate and dangerous taser use IMO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR-UOmo8FLA
    though its also another “contempt of cop” case.

  225. #225 by Jt on September 23, 2011

    Thanks Harpoon! Change “endue” to “endure” for me though will ya?

  226. #226 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    Won’t happen.

    Crazy thing is I’m a very mellow, easy to talk to person. You think I’m bad, yes then you have no hope for middle ground in policing. It happens.

  227. #227 by The Fullerton Harpoon on September 23, 2011

    Jt :

    Thanks Harpoon! Change “endue” to “endure” for me though will ya?

    Done.

  228. #228 by The Fullerton Harpoon on September 23, 2011

    Reality Is :

    Won’t happen.

    Crazy thing is I’m a very mellow, easy to talk to person. You think I’m bad, yes then you have no hope for middle ground in policing. It happens.

    Middle ground? Are you out of your mind? We need the threat of excessive force so we can settle for “middle ground” with you?

    Folks, there you have it.

  229. #229 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    Yes middle ground. No clue what your statement about excessive force means though. yes, folks, there you have it.

  230. #230 by Stud Lee on September 23, 2011

    Sides has been formed by you, not us.

    US has ALWAYS been your mentality and it shows in everything you say.

  231. #231 by MrFox&HisPurpleRocks on September 23, 2011

    So, who elected Boss-Hog mayor of Fullerton? Well of course Boss Hog is corrupt. Didn’t anybody watch the Dukes?

  232. #232 by The Fullerton Harpoon on September 23, 2011

    Of course you don’t understand.

    Hopefully there will soon be a day when you are unable to negotiate the terms of acceptable levels of violence with your employers.

    Can you understand that?

  233. #233 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    Can you say concrete operations? Do you know what that means? No, it’s not a cement truck and has nothing to do with construction.

  234. #234 by FEDUPWITHMORONS on September 23, 2011

    I TYPE IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE IT’S HARD TO SEE WITH ONLY ONE EYE

  235. #235 by Snow Hume on September 23, 2011

    Dear “Reality Is” #71: I do believe that I am the only one who has advanced a conspiracy theory about the death of Kelly Thomas. But you need to remember that I was a victim of an FPD conspiracy to falsely prosecute. The case was dropped when, after spending over $60,000 on private investigation and lawyer’s fees, we proved to the DA what I had said to begin with: my accusers, including Bankhead, Flory, and Godfrey, had committed crimes and I had stopped the crimes. False “continuation reports” were filed, and it got costlier and costlier to keep disproving those. Finally, we had amassed so much evidence of the accusers’ guillt, that the DA (then, it was Mike Capizzi) was afraid of a Special Jury Verdict that he had used the prosecution process to further a conspiracy to commit theft. So his underling went into court and asked the case to be dismissed… after the Statute of Limitations had passed for the crimes of Flory, Godfrey and Bankhead. [In late summer of 1999, Flory publicly apologized to a panel of the Fourth Distict Court of Appeal for the crime she had committed;the courtroom got a good laugh out of it.]

    Two of the three police investigators who falsified the complaining report to the DA — Mike Maynard and William Wallis — were among the elite handful of people who signed the nomination petititon for Dick Jones’ first run for City Council.

    Now, you may think that my conspiracy theory is “wild”, but all I know is that there is a mismatch between what the Dispatcher was told via communications of record, and what the Dispatcher said to those in the field. Somebody reported that there was a “presence of Kelly Thomas while partially naked” in process, and not that there was a “car break-in in process”. Perhaps someone made a communication (to the Dispatcher) that was NOT of record — say, an oral report by an officer who was part of a conspiracy — that a car burglary was in process. That is still consistent with my point that the evidence shows no contemporaneous reports OF RECORD of a car burglary in process, yet the dispatch made did. That little irregularity is enough to signal a conspiracy, to anyone who wants to bother to investigate it.

    It cannot be an accident that one of the two “brutalizing” officers — Officer Cicinelli — had a history of a grave injury from an on-duty incident. That appears, to an objective observer, to be a little too convenient: a defense of “I paniced, because I once was shot in the eye during a confrontation” has been engineered for the prospective state and federal criminal prosecutions.

    When I began to analyze this killing, common sense told me that this was not a case of “police panic”. Even FPD officers know that too many officers piled on one suspect will usually end up with an officer’s getting injured, and will not further subdue the suspect. Someone directed those additional four police to jump on. By not charging the other four with crimes, the DA has given up a way to use plea bargaining, in order to get them to “roll” on the commander who told them to “make a Dog Pile”. This is a marker that Rackaukas is currying favor with someone, to make sure that the truth does not come out.

    I have always said that at least one officer who was not part of the conspiracy would be made a Fall Guy. Officer Ramos is, in my mind, a puppet in this situation. In contrast, I believe that some of the uncharged “other four” officers were, in fact, part of a prior conspiracy. Something is very weird, to a far-off observer, about an officer’s standing for many minutes and lecturing, even threatening, a suspect, while knowing that a tape-recording is being made of the entire conversation. Someone with authority ordered him to verbally scare Kelly Thomas into fleeing… and into the snare of police officers who were waiting for him.

    So, here is my next question to the bloggers out there: Was Officer Ramos wearing an FPD-issued recording device during the incident? If so, was he wearing it according to procedure or instruction? If the answer to either of those questions is “no”, then there still is some chance for some real justice in this case. It is always the observational evidence about which the wrongdoer does not know, that can unravel a well-woven fabric of conspiracy.
    Best wishes, WSH

  236. #236 by Snow Hume on September 23, 2011

    Dear Scotty,
    Please see my comments that were just posted, but they are posted up above in response to another post.

    I believe that Officer Ramos is, indeed, in grave danger, IF he wore the recording device without FPD’s knowledge of it. I think he was ordered to do certain things (as discussed above) by one or more of his superiors, and if that comes out, I do believe he is in serious danger.

  237. #237 by Bob from Baltimore on September 23, 2011

    I knew I saw him somewhere before !!!!!

  238. #238 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    My favorite show!

  239. #239 by blessusall on September 23, 2011

    This too is my experience in working in a psychiatric unit–the community LEOs are kind and compassionate partners with the treatment providers, the mentally ill person, and the family. They have been trained, though, and don’t treat them with contempt. They know how deal with an actively psychotic and agitated person in a way that does not lead to harm and they certainly don’t get angry at the things they say and do. So even though there are problems in my city and things aren’t perfect, we are fortunate in that respect. I hope there can be some kind of training and education for LE in Fullerton. And maybe some community education at some point because the attitudes from some posters seem more like something you might have heard many decades in the past.

  240. #240 by My Username Rocks on September 23, 2011

    Jaynbond, you seem to be a good, giving person. It’s unfortunate in a way, because it’s kind people such as you that homeless people prey on to feed their drug and alcohol addictions.

  241. #241 by blessusall on September 23, 2011

    Although I absolutely believe the officers should be held accountable for their actions and suffer the legal consequences, I do not wish them physical harm. Revenge doesn’t work for me. I do not want to become what I defend against. However, I understand how hurt and angry people are; or at least some of us feel hurt, betrayed, broken-hearted by what happened to Kelly Thomas. He really was a very vulnerable being and obviously defenseless in the face of the anger and brutality he suffered at the hands of the F6. That’s what makes it so gut wrenching and horrifying.

    They crossed the line, I believe they did behave in a criminal manner, I hope they will be held accountable, and I hope they will get a prison sentence as a consequence.

    I also believe others are implicated, starting at the top.

  242. #242 by Justice for ALL on September 23, 2011

    You might be brave when it comes to fires, and it goes without saying that you are ALWAYS “brave “heroes” when you are waving a gun around in a shoot-out. (You just LOVE the smell of a gunfight!) And, I’m pretty familiar with the fact that you guys will almost always shoot at a shadow (innocent/harmless person or other scary object such as a garden nozzle)-BEFORE you will take any risk at all to find out if you are really in any danger.

    And you are ESPECIALLY “brave” when it comes to bullying/tasering/night stick beating/ bludgeoning/knee dropping on the mentally ill and the homeless.

    And, you are SUPER DOOPER “brave” when it is 6 officers on 1 suspect, and you are fully armed and you have your bullet proof vests on, and of course NO witnesses.

    Try changing places with me, no gun, no vest, no tazer, no six strong arm buddies to back you up, and I’ll “out brave” you any day.

  243. #243 by Snowhume on September 23, 2011

    Regarding tasers and other electrical-shock devices:

    Would some neurologist out there in this blogosphere tell me whether or not there have been studies about the neural response to “tasering” by schizophrenic people? It is my recollection that, already 15 years ago, the results of Positron Emission Tomography ["PET Scan"] were consistently showing that schizophrenics have a “bright reddish orange” area in the back of their brains, which is missing in all other people, save for chronic cocaine users.

    If schizophrenics do, indeed, have a different brain physiology (if not a different morphology), due to a difference in “firing patterns” of the brain’s cells, then perhaps an electrical jolt will not cause the sort of involuntary spasming and paralysis which is ordinarily caused by shocking. [I know first-hand: when I worked in electrical construction in the late 1980's, I got "hit" with 220V once, and feel fortunate not to have ever gotten shocked with worse.]

    If the science has not been done, then maybe it is time. Society may be “tasering” schizophrenics for no real benefit or advantage. I would be grateful for citations to the medical literature by anyone who knows. WSH

  244. #244 by blessusall on September 23, 2011

    The overwhelming majority of drug and alcohol addicted people are not homeless. In fact, they are working people as well. There are some people, at advanced stages of addiction, who end up homeless. If they have a dual diagnosis of severe mental illness and addiction, then obviously it is a more complex issue and homelessness could result sooner, but generally speaking, alcoholics are working people. The overwhelming majority of alcoholics are primarily beer drinkers, by the way. Alcoholism/addiction is a progressive disease that gets worse over time unless there is some intervention, so most addicts start out as fairly reasonably functioning, working adults. I was telling a police officer today about this case (at the same time I was thanking her for her service and her kind and compassionate manner with mentally ill people she occasionally brings in to the hospital for evaluation/treatment) and the first thing she asked about the perpetrating officers was, “Was substance abuse a factor?” I told her that there is a very good chance that it is. That kind of out of control violence, especially in light of the fact that they are officers of the law and there were over 150 witnesses, and considering the complete senselessness of the whole thing, considering KT had not done anything at all (and even if he had, it still would have been senseless brutality) sort of suggests that there was more going on. Alcohol/other drugs fuel violence, towards self or others. Most suicides and homicides occur while the person is under the influence of a mood altering substance. And a person who is addicted and uses regularly would not have to have the substance in their system to have impaired judgment and functioning; after a while, someone who drinks heavily but does not drink while they are working, for example, will end up with impairment in their level of functioning even when the substance is not in their system. Also, I would have to say there is also the distinct possibility of some psychological impairment, emotional problem, or even mental illness in play among the officers (hypomanic and manic phases in bipolar disorder could result in poor impulse control, irritability, anger, rage, explosiveness). Furthermore, people who get off on power and authority to the point of abusing it are often shame-based people with profound feelings of inadequacy and their strategy for feeling “good enough” is to find other who they see themselves as “better than.” Prescription drug abuse/addiction, such as pain killers, has been increasing at an alarming rate as well, and is affecting people who most would not consider to be what a drug addict looks like. They are doctors, lawyers, teachers, bus drivers, police officers, bankers, plumbers, etc.

  245. #245 by Cindy Mc on September 23, 2011

    Dude, you TOTALLY said no one was going to be charged. You know you did. Don’t make me look for it.

  246. #246 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    Thanks. But no thanks for the offer. Why would I do that? That’s part of the reason I have the ability to be brave, and so would you.

    Justice for ALL :
    You might be brave when it comes to fires, and it goes without saying that you are ALWAYS “brave “heroes” when you are waving a gun around in a shoot-out. (You just LOVE the smell of a gunfight!) And, I’m pretty familiar with the fact that you guys will almost always shoot at a shadow (innocent/harmless person or other scary object such as a garden nozzle)-BEFORE you will take any risk at all to find out if you are really in any danger.
    And you are ESPECIALLY “brave” when it comes to bullying/tasering/night stick beating/ bludgeoning/knee dropping on the mentally ill and the homeless.
    And, you are SUPER DOOPER “brave” when it is 6 officers on 1 suspect, and you are fully armed and you have your bullet proof vests on, and of course NO witnesses.
    Try changing places with me, no gun, no vest, no tazer, no six strong arm buddies to back you up, and I’ll “out brave” you any day.

  247. #247 by John on September 23, 2011

    Keep up the presure on the Fullerton City Counsel
    and FPD because the mayors comments that this was a tragedy for the officers goes toward that they will only take responsibility to the extent they are ‘made’ to take responsibility. But it is aso true a couple of the officers may have no responsibility and it would be equaly wrong to ruin their lives.

  248. #248 by Justice for ALL on September 23, 2011

    i can assure you that people suffering from schizophrenia DO feel pain and shocks, just like everyone else. Not all people who suffer from schizophrenia have abnormal brain scans/MRIs/ enlarged or abnormal brain ventricles, etc. You can google Harvard Research Studies and Schizophrenia, F-MRIs, Pet scans, etc.

  249. #249 by Justice for ALL on September 23, 2011

    Why would you do that? To prove that you can actually be brave without murdering someone in the process.

  250. #250 by Anonymous on September 23, 2011

    My Username Rocks :
    Jaynbond, you seem to be a good, giving person. It’s unfortunate in a way, because it’s kind people such as you that homeless people prey on to feed their drug and alcohol addictions.

    Just make sure he doesn’t find out any of the homeless he claims to help have a mental disorder and parents who could not figure out how to help them. Because when the cops kill that homeless person all he will be able to do is direct his anger at the parent and not the murderers

  251. #251 by Cindy Mc on September 23, 2011

    Brick Sauce :Shadow, welcome back!
    Don’t get involved with OneEye.
    He is in love with his own written word and will split hairs about the time of day.

    So happy to see I’m not alone. Well said. I can honestly say in my 48yrs that I have never come in contact with such a narcissistic sociopath. it’s been a learning experience but I’ve long been bored him.

  252. #252 by Cindy Mc on September 23, 2011

    Yeah, keep him on life support when he’s brain dead. Once that happens there is n o recovery. What”s your excuse?

  253. #253 by Justice for ALL on September 23, 2011

    The Fullerton Shadow stated: “Did FFFF “latch onto” the Thomas murder? Of course not. It was just the final straw.”

    And you are suggesting that he SHOULD have stated it in the following way: ““Did FFFF “latch onto” the Thomas murder? Of course. It was the final straw.”

    In my mind, that amounts to semantics. You are worrying about inconsequential trivia. Most people don’t care if FFFF “latched onto” the Kelly Thomas issue, or not. The fact is that it IS a VERY important issue, and it IS VERY POLITICAL.

    It HAS BEEN the local politics, and SPECIFICALLY the Mayor and the city council members that have allowed the current unchecked culture of corruption within the FPD.

    They have not only covered up brutality and murder, but they have also implicity condoned this behavior. And, by so doing, they have promoted the FPDs culture of entitlement as well as their acts of abusive behavior with impunity.

    That is what I believe is patently obvious to me, and to anyone else who cares to dive into the city council meetings.

  254. #254 by blessusall on September 23, 2011

    You are defeating your own argument. If the police officer acts like an *ss wipe, then you are saying I can legally act like an *ss wipe in return? I don’t think so. Therein lies the problem. There is an imbalance of power which appears to be greatly abused by some FPD officers. I believe that Kelly Thomas was approached in a disrespectful, argumentative, intimidating way and he was being cussed at while being threatened with harm. So that is not equal. If he had responded back in same, his beating would have started all the sooner. In fact, I suspect the point to behaving that way was to hopefully escalate him in order to go after him or at least have reason to arrest him or move him on. But he didn’t react that way. He actually took the disrespect and verbal abuse until finally, when he sensed the beating that had been promised was about to commence, he tried to run away.

  255. #255 by Stud Lee on September 23, 2011

    He also stated that his job would be to “degrade Kelly Thomas and his relationships with his family”

    Hmmmm….who else here has been doing that? Who else here…

  256. #256 by MrFox&HisPurpleRocks on September 23, 2011

    Yep, couldn’t agree more. I have worked with people who came to work on time, did an excellent job and were legally drunk their whole shift. There was one fellow I never suspected was drunk until a special meeting was called that required his presence at an unusual hour. He was shaking so bad, he couldn’t get a shot glass of whiskey to his lips. Another invisible drunk stayed at my house a while and would pour himself a pint of whiskey in the morning for as eye opener. I never knew. Both of these people were not just people I knew at work. These were people I worked within a few feet, all day long.

    You will never solve this problem. People will use and abuse regardless of laws, penalties or even availability.

  257. #257 by Fullerton on September 23, 2011

    Does Fullerton politics make you mentally ill or are they mentally ill to begin with?
    The entire Fullerton police department and city officials should be prosecuted to full extend of the laws.

  258. #258 by TIGERMANLSU on September 23, 2011

    EYENEVERSAYNO YOUR ASSHOLE IS REALLY BIG SHAME IT,S NOT YOUR MOUTH {:)

  259. #259 by beavis on September 23, 2011

    Rather have a scroungy homeless person around than a cop. Cops are a menace to society.

    Jaynbond you need to STF up!

  260. #260 by beavis on September 23, 2011

    nice speech Reality, but you’re still a scumbag.

    Good riddance.

  261. #261 by beavis on September 23, 2011

    I’m really moved by your compassion for the homeless Jaynbond. But that doesn’t change things for the 6 cops who murdered Kelly Thomas. All 6 of them need to be sent to death row. The time has come to make an example of these murdering cops.

  262. #262 by fedupwithmorons on September 23, 2011

    FULLERTON YOU ARE A MORON!

  263. #263 by fedupwithmorons on September 23, 2011

    I’LL ASK RON TOMORROW, AND IF YOU ARE THE LIAR AS YOU ONCE HAVE ALREADY BEEN PROVEN TO BE, YOU BETTER BE READY TO APOLOGIZE LIAR.

  264. #264 by MrFoxLicksHisPurpleRocks on September 23, 2011

    Many folks are pretty jaded when it comes to cops. Unnecessary police brutality performed with virtual impunity is not a local Fullerton problem but a coast to coast, nationwide problem. On average, one unarmed civilian will die at the hands of Las Vegas cops every 60 days. The cops are cleared every time.

    It’s all a form of Regulatory Capture. The Fullerton PD, taking $5 out of every officers pay check to elect council members they own, is a prime example.

    Further, I’m late in my years and yet to have a warm fuzzy experience with police. In fact, my cooperation with police has always been to my detriment… every time, no matter what the situation. Therefore, I really do wish them the worst… every egotistical, narcissistic one of them.

  265. #265 by Reality Is on September 23, 2011

    I could be a liar then. I thought it was 5 years, and I noticed he was sure not to ever say he was a retired deputy. Just a former deputy. If 5 years vests him in the OCSD retirement program, and he’s 50, then yes he could be collecting a few bucks a month. I guess that’s technically “retired” after 5 years. My bad. :)

  266. #266 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 23, 2011

    To Fullerton

    Kelly’s father tried to help him for years, again, and again, and again.

    That’s all his father could do was try.

    Kelly was homeless by choice. He knew what his problems were, and on the times when his father tried to help, if Kelly refused, there was nothing he could do.

    Kelly was dirty, obnoxious, filthy, smelly, and for a lot of people just a general pain, but he wasn’t violent (Please don’t bring up the one time incident 15 years ago. If he really was violent there would have been more than one report.).

    G*d, for lack of a better word didn’t make all of us the same.

    Let me spend a day with you and I’ll be able to make just as many complaints and insults about you.

    None of us is perfect,

    but to be murdered by those entrusted with the authority to ‘Serve and Protect’ is __________ (fill in your own strong adjective.)

    No one denies that the job of a police officer is hard. All they want to do is go home at the end of the day like the rest of us.

    The problem is that they know thay are putting themselves in harm;s way and they know they can get hurt on the job, but callously killing someone who was not threatening, violent or guilty of any kind of crime means that if they can’t take the heat they need to get out of the kitchen and get a job stuffing boxes at Costco.

    The problem with that is that they may kill the customer whose box edge gave them a paper cut while filling it.

  267. #267 by The Tragedy Started on September 23, 2011

    What I would suggest in regards to the officers, the tragedy happened long, long ago –before they even became Fullerton PD. Somewhere along the line, they lost judgment on what was right and what was wrong. They were able to cover it up because they wore the uniform.

    I won’t give them any credit for saying they knew better. The truth is, they were bullies and they intentionally got away with thuggish behavior for years …probably most of their adult lives. These are at least two examples of bad people who wore the uniform of a police officer.

    The other officers are negligent, and also operating with morals. That tragedy happened a lot time ago too, they stopped caring to the point of remaining mute that night.

    For the city of Fullerton? No, this tragedy happened way before Kelly Thomas first set foot in this city, probably before he even started showing signs of early onset schizophrenia. The tragedy is this city has allowed a good old boys network to maintain the veneer of goodness, while looking away at the moral fiber that was fraying away at the edges. That this behavior of brutality flourished in place of civility and inclusiveness is an indication of a community that was more impressed with how things “seemed,” rather than how they were or how they were turning.

    I can only see what is happening as the net result of years of negligence and denial from every sector and corner of this town, and the crazy need for things to appear “nice,” when in fact they are not. The city has has reaped what it has sown. Right now, it’s lawsuits, murder, beatings, and bullying.

    As for the Thomas Family, their tragedy is too clear. For this, they have my deepest condolence of having to re-live the nightmare of how their son died.

    But the bigger insult to them will be if the people of Fullerton keep stereotyping those who are poor, mentally ill, and homeless. This will be proof that the tragedy continues, and the light truly will never shine in this town.

  268. #268 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 23, 2011

    “…the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. ” ~ Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

    “A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.” ~ Mahatma Ghandi

  269. #269 by Justice for ALL on September 24, 2011

    You never said ONE THING that I didn’t already know. You amaze only yourself.

  270. #270 by Paul on September 24, 2011

    To #268:
    The tragedy is not that people of Fullerton keep stereotyping those who are poor, mentally ill and homeless. The tragedy will be the huge settlement that is coming in this case. Had the police chief and city council properly acknowledged the case, it would have diffused the anger, but when you are well rooted in your ways, you cannot see the forest for the one tree. So its ok for the police chief to not say anything, go on vacation, go on sick leave so he can’t be terminated and be supported by the three blind mice who hired him.
    Well I hope those Fullerton bars have their city taxes increased to pay for the bloated Fullerton PD and the civil lawsuit settlement.I stopped frequenting those establishments.

  271. #271 by Reality Is on September 24, 2011

    :)

  272. #272 by Reality Is on September 24, 2011

    I take that back. I was tired. He couldn’t have retired. He resigned. You had me thinking for a second. He couldn’t have retired. You can only resign at the time. You don’t get a retired badge, you don’t get any other retirement benefits. You just get a few bucks from your vested funds once you hit the age of 50, if that’s what their program is. So that explains why he never says he is a retired Deputy. He was a Deputy at one time for 5-6 years.

  273. #273 by Anonymous on September 24, 2011

    “RESPECT MUH AUTHORITUUHHH!”

    Eric Cartman
    South Park Police

  274. #274 by Anonymous on September 24, 2011

    Enjoy.

  275. #275 by Jane H on September 24, 2011

    Justice for all wrote:

    “Try changing places with me, no gun, no vest, no tazer, no six strong arm buddies to back you up, and I’ll “out brave” you any day.”

    I really love that!

  276. #276 by Mike @ Here on September 24, 2011

    Jane H :
    Justice for all wrote:
    “Try changing places with me, no gun, no vest, no tazer, no six strong arm buddies to back you up, and I’ll “out brave” you any day.”
    I really love that!

    Agreed and I too really love that!

  277. #277 by blessusall on September 24, 2011

    In Kelly Thomas’ case, he was known to the community and the police officers. So they did not have to make a diagnosis in seconds. It’s interesting to see this continued dogged adherence to the idea that “they are dangerous, very dangerous.” It demonstrates a rigid, unyielding point of view that is one of the primary factors at play in this whole issue. California state wide training for police officers appears to be sorely lacking on many, many levels, not just training in dealing with mentally ill people. Unfortunately, some people don’t want to learn or change for the better or do anything differently. They will hang on to the status quo with all their might. This is why sometimes change must be mandated and why this dialogue itself is so important. It helps people to see what they are up against and will hopefully motivate the citizens to continue moving in the direction of change and, in Fullerton’s case, reform.

  278. #278 by nomad on September 24, 2011

    Ri I am tired of your gas Why dont you and I get together at the STARS academy

  279. #279 by blessusall on September 24, 2011

    If this happened in the Fullerton community, you may want to consider why people are reacting this way when they see the police. Probably best to get the first shot in. Plus, he may be angry over what happened to Kelly Thomas at the hands of Fullerton police. Believe it or not, mentally ill people and homeless people do form relationships. So the word about the beating death of Kelly spread quickly throughout the homeless community as well. I also have a suspicion that there has been a pattern of harassing these folks in Fullerton. And this doesn’t happen only in that town. I know there are some good officers also but there does need to be some education. And healing for the residents of Fullerton.

  280. #280 by blessusall on September 24, 2011

    I admire your willingness to learn more about the mentally ill in your community and I suggest that observing them is a start but observation alone will not be enough to figure out what may be wrong with them or what their mental status is. If we only observe the behavior of the police officers who beat Kelly Thomas, for example, we will still not have enough information to know “what may be wrong with them and what their mental status is.” Educate yourself about mental illness. Get to know the mental health workers in the community or those who work with the homeless. It would be another step in a positive direction.

  281. #281 by blessusall on September 24, 2011

    When I said “probably best to get the first shot in” I meant that may be what some homeless folks in that town may be thinking. I do not advocate physical aggression towards police officers or anyone else. I can just understand why they might be afraid. And yes, that can go both ways. Maybe the police officers are afraid. Sometimes fear is at the core of what presents as anger–the anger is the wall of defense and it is a fight or flight response. This is why I will continue to suggest education.

    blessusall :
    I admire your willingness to learn more about the mentally ill in your community and I suggest that observing them is a start but observation alone will not be enough to figure out what may be wrong with them or what their mental status is. If we only observe the behavior of the police officers who beat Kelly Thomas, for example, we will still not have enough information to know “what may be wrong with them and what their mental status is.” Educate yourself about mental illness. Get to know the mental health workers in the community or those who work with the homeless. It would be another step in a positive direction.

  282. #282 by TIGERMANLSU on September 24, 2011

    THE MAYOR HAS BLOOD NO HE,S HAND,S AND IS TO SLOW TO DO HE,S JOB HE HAS TO GO.

  283. #283 by Reality Is on September 24, 2011

    That’s where I graduated from :-)

  284. #284 by Fullerton on September 24, 2011

    MAJOR JOHN DICK & CRONIES “A TRAGEDY & DISGRACE FOR FULLERTON”

    Swiss Bank UBS CEO Oswald Gruebel resigned along with his top team on Saturday as he took the blame for the loss run up in alleged rogue trading in its investment division.
    Gruebel, appointed in 2009 to rebuild UBS after a near collapse: “That it was possible for one of our traders in London to inflict a multibillion loss on our bank through unauthorized trading shocked me, as it did everyone else, deeply.”
    The incident had global repercussions, including political ones. “I did not take the step of resigning lightly. I am convinced that it is in the best interests of UBS to approach the future with a new leader at the top,” he said.
    Gruebel, a 67-year-old former trader who helped turn around Credit Suisse a decade ago, was brought out of retirement to try to revamp UBS after it almost collapsed in 2008 under the weight of more than billion lost on toxic assets.

  285. #285 by Mike Coggins on September 24, 2011

    There should be a law created in Kelly’s name where by if a law enforcement officer is convicted of a serious crime his direct superior should be named as an accomplice for allowing an environment where it could happen. Accountability.

  286. #286 by Disgusted on September 24, 2011

    Reality Is :You realize bubba doesn’t come close to him right? He never leaves isolation and no one ever had a chance to get close to him. Never will.

    You realize how lonely that fat pig is gonna be in isolation? He’s gonna be beggin for bubba!

  287. #287 by Paul on September 24, 2011

    I believe Mayor Jones is right! It is a tragedy for FPD. Here is why: 1. no longer can FPD do anything it wants and get away with it. 2. Union rules are being called into question like how a police chief is allowed to be sick ( he got sick while on vacation) and thus cannot be fired. 3. How the public information officer is allowed to put out lies like officers with broken bones and not be admonished and demoted for lying to newspapers. 4. How officers like Cyclops got hired when they could not pass the physical. 5. How Officers are allowed to turn off their recorders when they want to have sexual assault. Recorders should have rules that they are ON at all times while ON DUTY or you are demoted. 6. What info officers are told that makes them want to go out and bash in the head of a vagrant. Ramos did this on his own with no provocation? HO HO HO if you believe that. 7. What union rules and pension costs are causing FPD to cost $38 million per year MORE than LASD for same size force. 8. Why are FPD members allowed to collect pay when charged with certain major felonies – who signed off on that labor contract?
    All in all, Mayor Jones is right, it is simply tragic what is going on in FPD and it needs this tragedy to shed life on the operations not just of FPD, but who agreed to all the BS.

  288. #288 by Mannix on September 24, 2011

    Paul :
    I believe Mayor Jones is right! It is a tragedy for FPD. Here is why: 1. no longer can FPD do anything it wants and get away with it. 2. Union rules are being called into question like how a police chief is allowed to be sick ( he got sick while on vacation) and thus cannot be fired. 3. How the public information officer is allowed to put out lies like officers with broken bones and not be admonished and demoted for lying to newspapers. 4. How officers like Cyclops got hired when they could not pass the physical. 5. How Officers are allowed to turn off their recorders when they want to have sexual assault. Recorders should have rules that they are ON at all times while ON DUTY or you are demoted. 6. What info officers are told that makes them want to go out and bash in the head of a vagrant. Ramos did this on his own with no provocation? HO HO HO if you believe that. 7. What union rules and pension costs are causing FPD to cost $38 million per year MORE than LASD for same size force. 8. Why are FPD members allowed to collect pay when charged with certain major felonies – who signed off on that labor contract?
    All in all, Mayor Jones is right, it is simply tragic what is going on in FPD and it needs this tragedy to shed life on the operations not just of FPD, but who agreed to all the BS.

    Paul you are raising dangerous questions. The system is corrupt because of public apathy. People don’t get involved. Most people don’t know their rights. People have their trust violated every day and they don’t know it.
    We need to shake up these exploitive sweetheart contracts. The bastards on the city council have ripped us off long enough.
    We need to investigate Chief Sellers convenient escape on disability. Who authorized it.
    What is the name of the Doctor who set it up?
    Does this Doctor disable every cop or city employee who is referred to him?
    SERIOUS FINANCIAL ISSUES HERE.

  289. #289 by undrcover on September 24, 2011

    Disgusted :

    Reality Is :You realize bubba doesn’t come close to him right? He never leaves isolation and no one ever had a chance to get close to him. Never will.

    You realize how lonely that fat pig is gonna be in isolation? He’s gonna be beggin for bubba!

    The police union will get Ramos out until his trial. Ramos will then jump bail and hide out in Mexico. He will be useful south of the border setting up drug deals for the boys up here.
    Don’t be shocked if Ramos is released on personal recognization supported by town officials.

  290. #290 by Ftown Lifer on September 25, 2011

    This IS a tragedy for the other FPD officers who were not involved, Moron.

  291. #291 by KFI FAN on September 25, 2011

    ITS HARD TO SEE WITH ONLY ONE EYE SO I USE ALL CAPS

  292. #292 by G.M. Thompson on September 25, 2011

    Yes, what a tragedy for the officers not involved. All the tools who kept quiet and have been keeping quiet over the years as Jones Hole in The Wall Gang ran rough shod over law abiding citizens.

    One way or another they were all involved. You and Doc Dick should save your tears for your post-recall going away party.

  293. #293 by Fullerton Cops are Thugs on September 25, 2011

    first: “a tragedy for the officers”. recall this fat ass.

    second: the fact that the fullerton pigs issued horn honking citations at the protest proves that they’re all a bunch of thugs. pigs. all of them. deserve all the public scorn they get.

  294. #294 by Paul on September 25, 2011

    Mayor Jones is a true right wing loser! I don’t mind him being right wing, but I do mind the voters that put a true loser in as Mayor. How could you vote for that loser of a human being?

  295. #295 by MrFoxLicksHisPurpleRocks on September 25, 2011

    I cannot agree. Unfortunately, the police are either corrupt or they are run out, for one reason or another. What made the Fullerton Six unique? The answer is that they are not unique. Any other grouping of six from the Fullerton PD would do just as well. The myth of uncorrupted cops is a delusion.

    Read: Friendly Fire?: The Good, The Bad And The Corrupt by former SoCal police officer Stephen Peach. There is a reason Southern California is known as corrupt police capital of the world.

  296. #296 by Heather on September 25, 2011

    This Jackass of a Mayor needs to go. You are no longer wanted in Fullerton.

  297. #297 by MrFoxLicksHisPurpleRocks on September 25, 2011

    Sung to the tune; If I Were A Rich Man from Fiddler on a Roof. 1st verse…

    If I were a policeman…
    Yiddy Diddy Yiddy Diddy Diddy Diddy Diddy Dum…
    All day long civilians dying, do I care?
    See my bullets flying through the air…
    If I were an average COP!

  298. #298 by MrFoxLicksHisPurpleRocks on September 25, 2011

    2nd verse
    Sung to the tune; If I Were A Rich Man from Fiddler on a Roof.

    The laws would not apply to me…
    Yiddy Diddy Yiddy Diddy Diddy Diddy Diddy Dee…
    Watch citations vanish, if I cum…
    Jails don’t need girls driving full of rum…
    Mam, those are some love-ly TITS!

  299. #299 by Elaine P on September 25, 2011

    Mayor Jones is right — it is a tragedy for the police officers — they got caught.

  300. #300 by Rooky on September 25, 2011

    The media spotlight is on the DAs office.The DA had to charge something. The DA now has the leeway or truthfully the opportunity of time to squash the charges. This crime involves many members of the corrupt sinister Fullerton police force and the city council.
    The DAs is under pressure from too many power sources to cover up the bigshots who are exposed and guilty of such a viscious atrocity. The complicity and criminal conspiracy is rampant and the thieving monsters are trembling as the Kelly Thomas intensifies.
    Don’t expect the FBI to bring anything new to
    Fullerton but a dog and pony show.
    The only solution is the recall if it’s not stopped. The evil cops will solve most of their internal issues by departing on disability.
    DOES ANYONE HAVE CHIEF SELLERS COMPO DOCTORS PHONE NUMBER? I KNOW HIS NAME DR. SUMMER-OFF

  301. #301 by Fullerton Rudy on September 25, 2011

    Bingo. However I would amplify on that. You can include Hee Haw.

  302. #302 by MrFoxLicksHisPurpleRocks on September 25, 2011

    Sung to the tune; If I Were A Rich Man from Fiddler on a Roof.

    CHORUS:

    I’d have a bright shiny badge and they’d all call me “hero”
    But, really, I’m just a narcissistic twit…
    A reflection from my shoe tells me who I protect and SERVE!
    There’d be 3 or 4 bought council members…
    Covering every folly that I make…
    The mayor and the chief would complete the big corrupt SHOW!

  303. #303 by MrFoxLicksHisPurpleRocks on September 25, 2011

    Sung to the tune; If I Were A Rich Man from Fiddler on a Roof.

    3rd verse

    I’d always see some action…
    Sooey Piggy Sooey Piggy Piggy Piggy Piggy Soo…
    I’d never miss a chance…
    to call an ambulance…
    I’d get violent just to break routine!

  304. #304 by MrFoxLicksHisPurpleRocks on September 25, 2011

    Sung to the tune; If I Were A Rich Man from Fiddler on a Roof.

    4th verse

    I’d know to pick my victims…
    Crunchy Punchy Crunchy Punchy Punchy Punchy Punchy Crunch!
    Who would defend a vagrant, classless bum?
    Badged cowards will get some fun…
    But a homeless man with family is not playing by the rules!

  305. #305 by The Pigman on September 26, 2011

    “Well, some may just say that he misspoke”

    Yes, because it’s not as if politicians are known for choosing their words in order to have the maximum impact…

  306. #306 by Kirk SR on September 26, 2011

    No body deserved the punishment that Kelly Thomas received, but why is he being portrayed by FFFF as “law abiding?”

    Thomas has a long list of priors, and his own family had restraining orders against him.

    Law abiding is no arrests, and certainly no convictions or restraining orders.

  307. #307 by Dr. Ott Says on September 26, 2011

    He was law abiding on the night of July 5th when your buddy Cicinelli smashed his face in with 8 hits with a taser butt.

  308. #308 by Jeffrey Castaline on September 26, 2011

    I’ve seen information on an assualt when he was a teenager and I think a tresspassing.

    What long laundry list have you seen I haven’t.

    Law abiding would also mean no traffic tickets. Paying your bills on time, etc., the everyday mundane things that make up life.

    Kirk SR have you never had a ticket?

    Anyway, it’s prior bad acts. Not related or admissable in court, or so my friend the attorney says, unless it shows a steady stream of the same prior behavior.

    I can’t see the his prior behavior of trying to get killed by anyone, let alone the police.

  309. #309 by The Tragedy Started on September 26, 2011

    Adherence to stereotypes usually leads to a state of an unwillingness to change because they can’t see things any other way. That’s a tragedy. Leaving things the same does no one any good, especially when you consider all the money that is being spent on all the lawyers, which could have gone to helping those in need.

  310. #310 by Mike Coggins on September 27, 2011

  311. #311 by EyeNeverSayNo on September 27, 2011

    Your friend kept it simple for you. In fact prior bad acts may be admissible admissable to show motive, plan, intent, lack of mistake or, in federal court, to impeach a witness’s credibility.

    Denial in these instances usually involves the admission being more inflammatory than probative.

  312. #313 by We Are All One on September 28, 2011

    COME SEPTEMBER

    “What the Free Market undermines is not national sovereignty, but democracy. As the disparity between the rich and poor grows, the hidden fist has its work cut out for it. Multinational corporations on the prowl for “sweetheart deals” that yield enormous profits cannot push through those deals and administer those projects in developing countries without the active connivance of State machinery – the police, the courts, sometimes even the army. Today Corporate Globalization needs an international confederation of loyal, corrupt, preferably authoritarian governments in poorer countries to push through unpopular reforms and quell the mutinies. It needs a press that pretends to be free. It needs courts that pretend to dispense justice. It needs nuclear bombs, standing armies, sterner immigration laws, and watchful coastal patrols to make sure that it’s only money, goods, patents, and services that are being globalized – not the free movement of people, not a respect for human rights, not international treaties on racial discrimination or chemical and nuclear weapons, or greenhouse gas emissions, climate change, or god forbid, justice. It’s as though even a gesture towards international accountability would wreck the whole enterprise.” – ARUNDHATI ROY

  313. #314 by Elaine P on October 2, 2011

    Correction: This Time they got caught.

  314. #315 by Fullerton on October 11, 2011

    I have been asking a same question “How could you vote for that loser of a human being” and almost give up.
    Major Jones love to surround himself with cronies. Fullerton City Hall and Police Dept. corrupted to the core. It is a tragedy for Fullerton. They got exactly what they voted for.

  315. #316 by MrJonesGotsHugeBlueStones on October 13, 2011

    I cannot help but think the people behind the elite agenda are short sighted to the extreme. What’s the great pay-off when they reach their ultimate goal? There will be a group of satanic Jews (is there any other kind?) who rule over a population of miserable slaves. Why would anyone want that? At root, Jacob Rothschild, et al, are really a collection of morons. The illuminati are all bumbling idiots.

  316. #317 by Ian MacLeod on October 19, 2011

    “FACIAL INJURIES ARE NOT LIFE THREATENING”.

    I beg to differ. Ram someone’s face into a curb with your weight behind it a few times and there WILL be brain injury. There are also two places where bone can pretty easily be pushed into the brain – the area behind the nose (upper sinus) and the temporal bones. Use a club of any sort though and all bets are off – strike hard enough and do it enough times and almost ANY part of the skull can end up in the brain. I worked ambulance for a decade and was USN Hospital Corps; I had two years in East Oakland. This cop used his hands and he used hard weapons; he sat on a restrained man and continued pounding despite many people telling him he going overboard. His buddies ran interference and stopped anyone from doing anything. I’d bet if that crowd had tried to stop him, no matter how non-violently, a few would have been shot and citizen’s arrest or no, a LOT would have gone to jail.

    No matter how much of a nice guy Ramos was MOST OF THE TIME, THIS time he killed a man who posed no threat, broke no law, and his buddies are accessories. There can be NO excuse.

  317. #318 by Ian MacLeod on October 19, 2011

    “Cops – do not think that the public must fear and respect you. ”

    This is the big one right here, and too damned many badge-wearing THUGS interpret “failure to grovel” – or to grovel enough – as “disrespect.” for that matter, look at the motto of the idiots of “Big City Cops.” The trigger for major abuse always seems to be a reflex drawing away while being manhandled somewhere, or asking a question, or not pulling over until finding a safe spot out of traffic… ALL of those have precipitated broken bones, teeth knocked out, being pounded down… Too many cops are looking for an excuse to attack, and too many others are willing to run interference with bystanders even if the attacking cop is beating someone to death.

  318. #319 by Ian MacLeod on October 19, 2011

    “Why bunch all the officers that are there to protect us into one. ”

    This has been asked several times. I’m in Oregon, and worked with cops a long time ago (ambulance). I’ve been following the militarization/thug-izing of LE, among other things, for about the last decade, so as a non-local viewpoint – people bunch cops all together because it happens so OFTEN. Fullerton has a rep for violent cops anyway, but incidents are finally getting into the MSM enough to get some real attention. Now you can read about five or ten new incidents a day, a lot of them fatal; you can see hundreds, maybe thousands on YouTube, or watch it almost live over and over on OWS, and abuse of the innocent starts to look like about all cops do for a living. It happens WAY too much, and while there are undoubtedly good cops out there, where in hell are they when something like this happens? They’re sure not the ones protecting the killer from the public while he finishes his victim off!

    This incident is particularly hard to ignore, too, in how gratuitous and matter-of-fact it is. This cop is sitting there on top of Kelly pounding and zapping away in front of half a hundred people, he has a recorder on, you know there are cameras there, and it doesn’t even slow him down! And no matter WHAT Kelly said or did, there can be NO EXCUSE! He’s restrained, stunned and bleeding, outweighed and out-numbered, totally helpless – and the cop is still at it, obviously not intending to stop, ever. All those other cops standing around keeping the crowd back and ignoring their concern just tops it off. So where ARE these “good cops” anyway? That’s why all cops are getting stained by this. One jerk can tar a lot of good people, and this was more than just a “jerk”.

  319. #320 by Ian MacLeod on October 19, 2011

    Fullerton, you have NO IDEA what Mr. Thomas and his family might have gone through with Kelly! And what do you he “pulled the plug so soon”? 38 years is a LONG time! A schizophrenic, especially a paranoid, can convince almsot anyone that they’re normal, reasonable people and being abused – until somewhere they slip, if they do, mention the aliens or that someone keeps trying top poison their coffee. I understand that Kelly refused to stay in any building for very long because it made him feel like he was being locked away. Between those things and holes in the system that people are always falling through, it sounds to me like Mr. Thomas did all he could do. The restraining order was likely so he and his family could get a little rest for a change!

    Lay off the family. You weren’t there! I’d guess Ron Thomas has been grieving for his son for a long, long time now.

    Ian

  320. #321 by dixiejon on January 18, 2012

    maybe they will get a change of venue to LA. i heard the FPD are a favorite of the 3000 Boys.

  321. #322 by dixiejon on January 18, 2012

    and the Slidebar.

  322. #323 by Ian MacLeod on January 19, 2012

    Blessusall, If they are THAT scared by one scrawny guy whose problem himself is fear, a feeling of persecution (imagine that), if they’re so afraid that they beat this guy to death (and the guy who did that put on his “special black gloves”, held his fists under Kelly’s nose and TOLD him what he was going to do), and the others enabled it, then they’re in the wrong job! If six big guys couldn’t handle one skinny street person without killing him, they are flat-out in the wrong place. Working ambulance, I’ve had to help subdue and restrain AND transport guys who were bigger than any of those cops. Once I had help from cops, it still took a bunch of us, and the guy still got to the county hospital with no injuries. Sitting on a restrained man who’s calling for his dad and continuing to POUND him with a Taser butt until he’s too brain damaged to live is, I’m sorry, NOT FEAR.

    Ian

  323. #324 by Carl on February 12, 2012

    Okay… so Ned Beatty will likely play the part of the neanderthal-thinking, good ole boy, power-tripping, respect-seeking mayor.

    Come on, who else does it better?

    Unrelated: Please tell me this hat was worn because there was some sort of cowboys and Indians tribute event going on in Fullerton that day?? He didn’t just wear that for no reason, did he?

    Okay, moving on…. who will be driving the speed boat, you know, the proverbial speed boat that alludes the dimwitted, corrupt police force, in the inevitable movie? Maybe Burt is now a tad too old. Although, … I must say, … Burt did a wonderful job in boogie nights.

  324. #325 by Thankgodidontliveincalifornia on May 8, 2012

    Now I see why California votes for liberal idiots. It’s because the state is full of liberal idiots.

  325. #326 by MrJonesGotsHugeBlueStones on May 9, 2012

    Thankgodidontliveincalifornia :
    Now I see why California votes for liberal idiots. It’s because the state is full of liberal idiots.

    Yep, that would pretty much make sense, except for the fact that the liberal-conservative dichotomy is a well known myth. Wake up and smell the coffee of common sense. Have you ever noticed the smooth continuum of government policy despite the election of a new President?

  326. #327 by Mmm thats good on May 9, 2012

    Wake up and smell the coffee of common sense. Have you ever noticed the smooth continuum of government policy despite the election of a new President?

    Thank You!

Comments are closed.